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Posted at 9:50 AM ET, 02/10/2010

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: 'What Kate Does'

By Liz Kelly
Lost

Welcome back to another gripping analysis, in which Jen and Liz attempt to get to the bottom of this week's episode -- possibly without success. That's where you come in. After reading, add your thoughts to the comments section below, then join the 2 p.m. "Lost" Hour live chat. And, as always, don't forget to buzz by "Lost" Central.


Together again: Ethan (William Mapother), Claire (Emilie de Ravin) and Kate (Evangeline Lilly). (ABC)

Liz: Another week, another hour closer to the... very... end. What did we learn? That course correction -- at least as it applies to "Lost's" version of fate -- is alive and well? That Sawyer is still pretty P.O'd about the whole Juliet thing? That Kate is still torn between him and Jack? That Jack, speaking of the guy, is willing to swallow a mysterious poison pill to assuage his guilty conscience? And did we like this episode better than last week's premiere?

While you answer those questions, Jen, I'll get my credit card for you.

Jen: Oh, thanks. I figured you'd let me use it, even though I pulled a gun on you and stole your stuff. (I gave it back, though. And that makes me trustworthy.)

A lot of things to touch on this week, but let me address your last question first: Did I like the episode more than the premiere? At about the half-hour mark, I was feeling antsy and impatient. I wanted the episode to take me somewhere it hadn't taken me. And then four magic words were uttered: "Yes, I'm Dr. Goodspeed." Rest of the episode was pretty spot-on from there, I thought. Better than the premiere? In terms of jaw-dropping moments, yup.

Much more after the jump...
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Liz: We did seem to get off to a slow start and I was growing a bit impatient with Dogen (more on that guy later) and his henchman and their almost affected insistence on being as cryptic as possible while simultaneously wearing cast-off costumes from a local theater production of "Heart of Darkness."

But seeing Dr. Goodspeed -- aka Ethan Rom -- (and I never thought I'd say this) was a breath of fresh air.

Jen: Mr. Mapother actually deserves credit for delivering the quote of the night: "I just don't want to have to stick you with needles if I don't have to."

Liz: I'd have to go with Miles's: "As you can see, Hugo has assumed the leadership position, so it's pretty great."

Jen: I'm also a fan of "No, I am not a zombie." Which takes care of the S6 shout-outs to the zombie season, I suppose. Anyhoo, course correction. Ready? Go!

Liz: We have to assume that course correction was at work in bringing together Claire and Kate off island in the alternate reality. For the forgetful among us, I'll remind you that Kate delivered baby Aaron back on the island shortly after Claire had escaped the clutches of one (seemingly) evil Dr. Ethan Rom. How nice that they could all be together again (or, for the first time?) in L.A. after fate had handily seen to the trashing of Claire's plan to give her baby up for adoption.

Jen: Ethan, Kate and Claire being together prior to Aaron's birth was bound to happen, no matter what the circumstances, apparently. Which makes me a little more willing to buy that Claire would have gotten back in the cab with Little Miss Shotgun and Handcuffs. A little bit.

Liz: Though we should note that Kate left the hospital room without Aaron actually being born this time.

Jen: But back up a second. Both of us have been using the term alternate reality for the L.A. redux plotlines we're seeing in season six. But in their podcast last week (available at the bottom of the official ABC show page), LindeCuse cautioned against doing that. The term "alternate timeline" may be a misnomer.

They implied that both the island timeline and the new Oceanic timeline are now valid. My takeaway, if I understood correctly, was that the L.A. redux stuff wipes away everything from before. So it's not so much an alternate as THE timeline.

Does that make sense? Because I don't even trust myself.

Liz: Wait -- let me noodle that through for a second. So, it's not an alternate timeline, but it is -- in that both are actually unfolding somewhat simultaneously and, possibly, equally valid?

Jen: I think so. I believe they wanted to make it clear that what's happening since 815 landed isn't just an alternate version of what happened before, but THE version. Which is why other details in everyone's back stories also may be different.

Liz: Implying that if something in the new stateside timeline changes it could still potentially undo all that is unfolding on the island? Lending new legitimacy to Juliet's "it worked" statement? Ai -- my brain hurts.

Jen: Possibly, yes. So your astute observation that Kate left before Aaron was born ... could that somehow be tied up in the jawdropping revelation that Claire has been "infected" on the island? Perhaps Kate's absence from the child's arrival into the world had some impact on Claire, which is somehow tied up in what's going on on the island. It seems to me the two narratives we're currently experiencing have to be connected somehow.

Liz: Mmm kay. Not sure that's computing in my Commodore 64 of a brain, but I agree that the two narratives will at some point connect. But what of on-island Claire, who is now apparently Rousseau 2.0, and the notion that she has been "claimed"? By who or what we don't know, but the Others have suggested a "darkness" meaning our old friend MIB. But, since MIB has only claimed -- or so we thought -- the form of dead people in the past, should we assume that Claire did in fact die and was somehow reborn, ala Sayid's resurrection?

Jen: I think that's a fair assumption, that Claire was reborn. (And for the record, the Kate-not-being there-for-Aaron's-birth thought is not fully formed, and may be nothing more than nonsensical spitballin'.) But re: Claire as Rousseau -- interesting that Justin, aka Talky McRevealerson, said earlier in the episode that the Frenchwoman had died many years ago. So it would be fascinating if Claire assumed her role -- not literally her body, but the role Rousseau played on the island.

Liz: Well, if the shoe -- or rifle strap -- fits. She's living alone in the jungle, building primitive traps, searching for her lost baby. Sounds like Rousseau to me.

Which brings us to Sayid. Dogen (a name on which I believe you can shed some light) claims that Sayid is infected. I'm with Jack, though. I'm not sure we should trust him and his poison. Wouldn't a non-infected Sayid still cry out in pain if he were electrocuted and branded with a hot poker?

And, I'd just like to go on the record now as being in the enough-already-with-the-temple camp. Too much set design for too little plot payoff.

Jen: I think he would still cry out in pain. But I definitely sensed something different in the way he reacted. I think Sayid would have expressed distress, sure, but there's a steeliness in him that would normally come out in such a situation that didn't reveal itself. No ninja breakdance moves whatsoever.

And remember, when Rousseau's baby-daddy Robert got "infected" he almost seemed like himself, but she couldn't shake the notion that something about him was off. And that's the vibe I was getting from Sayid. I thought at first after the premiere that Jacob had entered him, but I guess that's not right. Or... maybe Jacob really did enter him and Jacob is the bad guy.

Liz: That is a good reminder re: Rousseau's boyfriend and the rest of her crew mates. They were definitely portrayed as possessed.

As for Sayid's lack of "steeliness," remember the guy just rose from the dead. He's hardly at the top of his game and in prime breakdancing ninja form. And, technically, Dogen is the one who killed Sayid anyway.

Jen: Oh, on another note, since we've referred to Justin, we should give Aldo a shout-out, otherwise known as the guy who fell for the Wookie Prisoner Gag. He's super ticked and sarcastic. And Lord knows we don't have enough sarcastic people on the show these days.

But let's talk Dogen, who more officially revealed his name this week.

Dogen, in the real (not alternate) world was a Zen Buddhist teacher. And according to Wikipedia, he eventually wrote the following:

"As I study both the exoteric and the esoteric schools of Buddhism, they maintain that human beings are endowed with Dharma-nature by birth. If this is the case, why did the Buddhas of all ages—undoubtedly in possession of enlightenment—find it necessary to seek enlightenment and engage in spiritual practice?"

Liz: Ahh, yes, I believe that was written in his "Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma."

Jen: Lostpedia also notes this fun fact: The original Dogen died on this date: Sept. 22, 1253. So the dude's important. I also think he's subtly telling Jack a few things about leadership. I liked his comment about not speaking English because he needs to separate himself from the people he leads. Otherwise, it will be too hard for him to tell them what to do. Jack's never quite been able to do that.

Liz: Yes, too bad Ben didn't think of that trick, too. But, like many an Other leader before him, Dogen is possessed of a singular ability to keep his cards close to his vest. As in "give your friend this pill, but I won't tell you what's in it or why."

Jen: Well, Ben did lie like the Temple Master. So, you know, he must have learned something.

Liz: As far as leadership skills go, Jack's coming along. He admitted tonight that he doesn't even "trust himself." So he's even further from the cocky spinal surgeon we met in season one. He's growing and changing -- for the better. And I think it's working for him. A couple of seasons ago he would've knocked Dogen out and hauled butt out of the temple. Now he's -- well, he's playing chess. He's taking calculated risks designed to pay off a move or two further in the game rather than just careening around the board with no endgame in sight.

Hmm, another metaphor for the entire show!

Jen: Well, that's true. Good point. But emotionally, I don't think Jack's in a good place. He seemed to have finally gotten comfortable with trusting something bigger than himself last season. But once he realized that didn't work out -- or at least doesn't appeared to have worked out -- he's seemed a little broken to me. But he's letting his brain dictate his choices instead of his emotions, which is probably a good thing.

Liz: He may not be in a good place emotionally at present (and who could be after what he's been through?), but he's firing on all cylinders. Unlike one James Ford, who is just utterly crippled by grief right now and susceptible to all kinds of evil influences... men in black, women with long curly brunette locks.

Jen: Oh, man. How heartbreaking was it to watch Josh Holloway cry?

Liz: Gotta admit it, for an actor dismissed largely as just another pretty torso, he's turned in some mighty powerful performances in the last few shows (I'm including the end of last season here).


Sawyer (Josh Holloway) makes his escape from the temple of doom. (ABC)

Jen: He really has. He's come a very long way from season one. Not that he was bad then, necessarily, but he didn't have to play such a wide range of emotions. So kudos to him. The guy is more than just a shirtless heartthrob. There. We said it.

Liz: Though I love how Kate tries to make it all about herself by saying it was her fault Juliet is dead. Nice try, freckles, but you're not due for a pity party just yet.

Jen: Oh, come on, Liz! I read that comment from Kate very differently. I felt like she was trying to own up to the fact that she played a part in screwing things up for Sawyer. You always criticize her for manipulating Jack and Sawyer. And this time she took responsibility and said, you know what, I should have kept my mouth shut. I'm sorry. Give her credit for at least that.

And I think after she saw Sawyer weeping while digging through the shoebox, she realized just how much he loved Juliet. And not her. Kate's a runner -- that's given. What she did to Jin is further evidence of that. But I don't think she's a heartless monster. She just does stupid stuff, hates herself for it and messes up things for two very handsome men in the process. Whatev. We all do that every day, right?

Liz: Hey, I call it as I see it. And her insistence on following Sawyer out of the camp -- without letting Jin in on the fact that she planned to jump their escorts -- is just another chapter in the "Kate can't decide between Jack and James" romance novel.

I agree that she realized Sawyer's depth of feeling for Juliet, and I think it bugged her.

Hey -- were you at all puzzled by Sawyer's statement to Kate on the dock that he asked Juliet to stay on the island because he "didn't want to be alone?" For a second there I thought he was maybe admitting that his feelings for Juliet weren't head-over-heels love... the kind of love he could perhaps feel for Kate.

Jen: Well, I think that's what it was at first. It wasn't love at first sight. But I will say that part of me was a bit surprised he planned to propose because Sawyer definitely seemed affected by Kate's reappearance on the island. He didn't strike me as a guy so 100-percent sure that he would have popped the question. But now this is sounding like a "Grey's Anatomy" analysis...

Liz: Agreed, though I think character development -- and their emotional lives -- is at least a small part of what Damon and Carlton meant when they said this season would be more like season 1. So we can't ignore this stuff.

Jen: No, absolutely. We should not ignore it at all. I was just being a smart aleck.

Re: Jack and Kate -- did you notice when she hijacked the cab, almost running over Arzt doing his best Dustin Hoffman in "Midnight Cowboy" impression, that Kate spotted Jack? The sight of him seemed to have an impact on her. I always feel like Jack reminds Kate that she has a conscience and that she should do the right thing. And it seemed like, for a second, she sensed that just from the sight of him, and then immediately forgot all about it.

Liz: Well, it did seem that she had some kind of brief flash of recognition when she saw Jack. I didn't get the "do the right thing" vibe in that 1.2 second shot, but I like the idea so I'm willing to give it a go. She seemed to me to have that moment of hesitation because -- well, because she didn't know why she was staring at this relative stranger (they'd had that run-in on the plane) outside the airport. Then she came back to herself. But that's me, Literal Lizzie.

Liz: So, we started out talking about Claire, Kate and course correction. How, I wonder, does course correction account for the boneheaded move of giving an alleged murderer your credit card? I mean, I'm pregnant and all and I get the whole "fog of pregnancy" thing. But I can tell you I keep my credit cards near me at all times.

Jen: You're right; it's not exactly responsible financial behavior. But from a narrative perspective, it makes a lot of sense. By giving Kate her credit card, Claire is basically saying, "Hey, feel free to start pretending you're me." Which is exactly what Kate did in the flashforwards we saw last season. Again, destiny at work. Kate was always going to try to pass herself off as Claire in some fashion.

Liz: Though in this case the means by which Kate can "become" Claire Littleton may ultimately make it easier for the feds to track her down.

Jen: That's true. Would be pretty easy to find her at that point. Hey, I need to paste a note from chat producer Paul Williams, another rabid "Lost" fan on staff, here:

"Hey -- after tonight's episode, I rewatched 'Raised by Another' (which is freaking terrifying, btw) then was reading on Lostpedia, and one of the entries on unanswered questions points out that all of the Losties who went to 1977 and hid out with the DI got the vaccine. Which means Sayid did not. Possibly meaningful.)

Liz: Eenteresting.

So are we buying the story that the temple Others -- Dogen's men -- are on the good foot and just trying to keep our Losties safe? Why the insistence that Saywer not leave and then, when he did, that he be brought back safe?

Jen: They need Sawyer there for some reason. Maybe they believe he's necessary to fight off the MIB? Or -- and I'm going back to the season one well again -- maybe he will ultimately be the one to kill Sayid. Remember, Sayid tortured Sawyer pretty mercilessly back then. This would be a revisiting of that plot development, with, again, a slightly different take on the events.

Liz: I'm not sure it's only Sawyer that they need, though. My thinking is that it has something to do with that note (list) Jacob sent along in the Ankh. Our Losties' presence is required in the temple in order to fulfill Jacob's conditions for... something we'll doubtless learn in a coming episode.

Jen: True. We don't know who was on Jacob's list. That is probably key as well.

Liz: So, I move that we table the discussion until the 2 p.m. chat where we can discuss all this, plus why it is that Sayid's gunshot wound healed so fast. Was it mere island magic at work, the healing waters of the temple or something else altogether?

Jen: Yes, I want to talk about that. Because understanding how the island heals seems like a central mystery that needs to be resolved this season, and what we saw happen to Sayid should help us unlock it. I hope.

Liz: Oh, one thing -- I won't be participating in the chat since I'll be returning to my regularly scheduled island vacation here in lovely Vieques, P.R. where today's expected high is a balmy 84 degrees Fahrenheit.

But I will, of course, be there in spirit. And with you as you weather today's Snowmaggedon, part two.

Jen: Yeah, right. If by spirit you mean you'll be drinking smoothies and pretending we don't exist. For the rest of you people kind enough not to escape to tropical paradises, I'll see you in the chat, assuming I still have power and haven't been buried under a snow drift. In which case the chat may be postponed.

Oh, and one more thing to noodle on before chat time. This screen cap of Claire's ultrasound clearly has the date written on it. And that would be: October 22, 2004. October. What??

Yes, we will discuss.

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By Liz Kelly  | February 10, 2010; 9:50 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  
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Comments

Re: Sayid. I didn't think it was very Sayid-like to cave under the pressure of torture and say he would talk. Can't remember, but hasn't he been more stoic in other torture situations from previous seasons?

Posted by: dclibrarian | February 10, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I'll probably ask this in the chat as well, but... Dude, no talk of what may or may not have happened to young Ben? He was healed at the temple. Richard said he wouldn't remember what happened to him (like Sayid did not) and that he would "lose his innocence". Was Ben "claimed" and, if so, a) why was Richard okay with this when Dogen was not; and b) is this why Jacob seemed so dismissive or detached from Ben right before Ben killed him?

Posted by: jf76 | February 10, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

The date on the sonogram could be referring to her due date, not the date of the sonogram.

Posted by: Chasmosaur1 | February 10, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

In the 8pm rebroadcast of last week's episode, the little cliff notes at the bottom of the screen referred to the Oceanic 815 landing timeline clips as a "flash sideways".

I'm surprised there's no mention of the awesome LOST parody commercial that Bud Light aired during the Super Bowl. Possibly the best commercial of the SB...at least for LOST fans.

Posted by: myjm1000 | February 10, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Overall, a pretty 'meh' episode which really did little to propel the story further - reminds me a lot of the episode with Jack's tattoo. Aldo? Are you freakin' kidding me? A marginal character at best from season 2(?) with a vaguely familiar piece of dialogue who is killed a few minutes later - why?

It would have been nice to read the subtitles in the 8pm repeat, but the storm cancellation notices (it is snowing? who knew!) blocked most of this for me. Did they actually say that everyone was on flight 815, or was this implied?

Posted by: Ebola_22039 | February 10, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Agree with Chasmosaur1. Liz should know that sonogram pictures will often say the due date! Claire being 8 months pregnant would make 10/22/04 a pretty reasonable due date.

Your mention of lists is interesting too. Remember back in season 2, Ben's list (which was supposedly given to him by Jacob) listed the names of Jack, Kate, James, and Hugo. Just a coincidence that those 4 are now back together? Maybe those same 4 names were on Jacob's list in the Ankh, and that's why Kate was sent to retrieve Sawyer.

Posted by: DCUMD | February 10, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I think the date on the sonogram had to be that day's date. And assuming Claire is examined the same day as they landed, a shift has occurred between the plane that crashed September 22 and the one that landed October 22. Planes use the same flight number for the same route over and over, so an October 22 flight 815 is not out of the question, and our Lostees are on it in another timeline, where the island had been sunk in the 1970s, and their coming together in LA is just another situation set up by Jacob, or whomever, to get these people together, though a month later.

A parallel timeline under different circumstances, created by those who survived the sinking of the island, including Ethan, for the same purpose. No different than our Lostees appearing in the 1970s and encountering Dharma. Unlike on the island, where they had to remain together, our Lostees will be manipulated in LA to cross paths. The ultimate goal is still unknown but Aaron's birth seems important.

As for Dogen, I think he's another god, like Jacob and MIB. What tipped me off was the poison. He could not give it to Sayid, now infected with some spirit, just as MIB could not kill Jacob directly. Dogen was tricking Jack to kill Sayid just as MIB tricked Ben to kill Jacob. The excuse that Sayid would not take it unless given by someone he trusted is silly when you consider Dogen had Sayid strapped to a table where poison could have been injected.

Its becoming more clear to me that the island is a battleground for ancient immortal gods, with our Lostees there to do things they cannot do themselves. Even Christian could not help Locke stand up to turn the wheel. So this is a war among the gods, with Lostees and other mortals brought in to kill gods, blow up subs, gain advantage, etc. So far it seems:

Jacob - a god working through Hurley, Locke, and the Ajira newbees carrying Locke's body.
MIB - a god pretending to be Jacob working through Ben.
Dogen - a god working through those at the temple.
Christian - a god working with Jacob through Jack and Locke.

And a small thought about Julia. She fell in the hole and hit the bomb with a rock to set it off. When the smoke clears she says it worked. She could only know it worked IF she had seen the results. Julia is now dead but I think she will show up in the sideway timeline. I always thought, while Julia was playing house with Sawyer, that she knew what was coming. I'm guessing she had come from the sideways timeline, knowing the future, and worked to make sure things happened a certain way on the island. She knew it worked because she had seen the future, and what happened happened. I expect to see a future scene where Julia, a fertility doctor, and Ethan, are working together in the hospital. That will be a rip snorter!

Posted by: Fate1 | February 10, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that the group on the island has not told Jin that Sun was on the plane, that he has a daughter, but they don't know why she didn't end up with them back in 1977? Poor Jin. Or told him anything about their off-island time, or why they came back? And, what do you think the Oceanic 6 told their families/friends about what they were doing? Maybe they said nothing to them, and I am sure I am getting caught up in lame details, but these are the things that are hard for me to just let go, even though I realize the entire show is clearly not based in any kind of reality.

Posted by: Laura118 | February 10, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

@Laura118 Jack/Kate/Hurley did tell Jin that Sun was on the plane as soon as they met him on the beach. That was why he went running into the jungle to talk to Radzinsky and why he eventually found Sayid.

Posted by: DCUMD | February 10, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"Agree with Chasmosaur1. Liz should know that sonogram pictures will often say the due date! Claire being 8 months pregnant would make 10/22/04 a pretty reasonable due date.

Posted by: DCUMD"

But something has changed, because 10/22/04 would not have been the due date in the original timeline. Original Aaron was born six weeks after the plane crash of 09/22/04. Unless Aaron was born at 42 weeks (or later!) which is not unheard of but extremely rare, his mother's original due date would have been in November, as he was apparently born ~11/2.

IOW, if this alt timeline is really still on 09/22/04, then Claire should be 34 weeks pregnant, not 36. So no matter what 10/22 represents, something has changed from the original timeline; either the current date (most seem to feel 10/22 is in fact the date) or else the date Claire became pregnant. In which case...this won't be original Aaron. Maybe Erin?

Posted by: UniqueID | February 10, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Pretty surprised you guys liked this epi better than the premier. This one dismayed me even further that this last season might be going downhill. Yeah, we got some more clues about "the sickness" and Josh's scene on the pier was amazing, but other than that I feel like it was a complete waste of time. Maybe this is just because I'm biased against Kate -- the one character on the show who has shown absolutely no growth over 5 years -- but I really feel our time could've been better spent elsewhere.
Did anybody have a problem coming up with an explanation for why Claire ended up going to the US? Malkin would no longer of seen her plane crash, so who sent her? Or did Malkin envision the adoptive parents flaking out on her?

Posted by: beema | February 10, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"IOW, if this alt timeline is really still on 09/22/04, then Claire should be 34 weeks pregnant, not 36. So no matter what 10/22 represents, something has changed from the original timeline; either the current date (most seem to feel 10/22 is in fact the date) or else the date Claire became pregnant. In which case...this won't be original Aaron. Maybe Erin?"
Posted by: UniqueID

Oooh, a neat idea. A different child born. And maybe this is the whole story, a sort of time travel to kill Hitler as a baby sort of thing. Its seems clear these are the two possible timelines, the one we've seen for 5 seasons and this new one, and maybe that is what the war is about, which timeline becomes reality.

But I'm also wondering about the slips, Jack vaguely recognizing Des on the plane. Jack's familiar looks to Kate, Claire's naming her baby before it is born, Kate wanting to help Claire, a complete stranger. There is some overlap, with the first 5 seasons seeming to be in the subconscious of those in the alternate timeline. And Christian's body is missing, which may be why this flight succeeded.

Posted by: Fate1 | February 10, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

**it's not an alternate timeline, but it is -- in that both are actually unfolding somewhat simultaneously and, possibly, equally valid?**

That it is not an "alternate" timeline does not mean that the 815A is no longer valid. What it means is that is it not an either/or proposition. That all the various timelines are valid indicates that what we are dealing with is a "multiverse" -- where there are multiple realities, not alternate realities. That it may not be an alternate timeline does not mean that it is not a parallel timeline.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 10, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

**He admitted tonight that he doesn't even "trust himself."**

He doesn't trust himself, but he trusts himself enough to blow off the people who know what the hell is going on and, instead, do it Jack's way.

You know you are dealing with a real idiot when he admits he doesn't know what he's doing, and admits that everything he has done has been a disaster, but he insists on keeping doing it.

That is NOT personal growth. A thing is what it is -- and Jack is an idiot. He has always been an idiot, he will always be an idiot. It is who he is. It is his nature.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 10, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

UniqueID, 42 weeks is very common for a first time mom (2wks past due date). I'm a former ob so I can say this with certainty. Also, agree with the others that the date was probably her due date. Ethan said she was 36wks so that would put her due date at Oct 22 (40 wks which is term). Argument settled.

What was totally unrealistic was Ethan giving a mother the choice of stopping a stoppable labor or delivering at 36wks. That is still premature!!(Although most 36 weekers do fine, many still have respiratory problems). That would never ever happen. And no Mom at 36 wks would refuse delivery if given the choice. Most are at the "get this out of me now" stage by then.

Doc Hodie out.

Posted by: hodie2 | February 10, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

**This screen cap of Claire's ultrasound clearly has the date written on it. And that would be: October 22, 2004. October. What??**

Might that not be the date when the baby would be expected to be full term, that is, the expected due date? The good Dr. Goodspeed mentioned that Claire was at 36 weeks, and Claire herself has confirmed that she was not due for another few weeks.

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 10, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

OK, so I didn't read anybody's comments before my brilliant and original "due date" comment.

So, how about this?

Wasn't Claire given the vaccine when the evil Ethan Rom kidnapped her? So how could she have the Sickness now?

(I do still think that Claire died in the house-bombing.)

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 10, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

What I'm trying to figure out is why, if drowning Sayid didn't work, Dogen would try poison. Undead is undead, no matter how many different ways you kill someone.

Posted by: Beach_Girl | February 10, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

I would tend to think that a date posted below a time, will always be the current date. Also, it just says D, note DD (DueDate).
Another random...anybody notice the temple others continually referring to Jack as Shepard last night? this struck me for some reason...possible foreshadowing for his re-emergence as the hero, or anti-roginal "shepard"?

Posted by: chrisgraul | February 10, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Drowning Sayid did work.

The problem is that Sayid is not Sayid. And they need someone else to kill the not-Sayid because "the rules" prevent them from doing it. Jack is their "loophole."

Posted by: ooyah32 | February 10, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Dogen sure looked scared when Jack took the poison pill. Jack is obviously very important to Dogen and whatever his plan is.

But no one was important until Dogen read the names on the list in the guitar case. If that is really Jacob's list, then Dogen now knows these people are part of a plan by Jacob, so it makes sense he worked to save Jack. But it does not make sense he let Kate go after Sawyer, unless he knew he needed them all for the plan so someone had to get Sawyer back. Just an observation to put on the pile.

Posted by: Fate1 | February 10, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Drowning Sayid did work. The problem is that Sayid is not Sayid. And they need someone else to kill the not-Sayid because "the rules" prevent them from doing it. Jack is their "loophole."
Posted by: ooyah32

I agree about the "rules". That's why I think Dogen is a god and whatever is in Sayid is too. But I think Sayid is still Sayid. He's just got the "disease" Rousseau spoke of, that turns people into killers, like the Frenchmen dragged into the Temple, and she had to kill them before they killed her.

Posted by: Fate1 | February 10, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?p=2274437 Interesting comments by Gregg Nations regarding Claire's sonogram.

Posted by: ImTresbien | February 10, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Hugh Everett and his many worlds interpretation of quantum physics can explain how the two realities are simultaneously valid.

Posted by: kirtu | February 10, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

I think Sayid died by drowning and Jack brought him back to life with his CPR. Kate told Jack to stop - I never trusted Kate and never will, and I think it's darn lucky that Jack had already worked on Sayid before stopping.

I think Dogen set this up partly as a test for Jack, who has yet to realize that he was the one who saved Sayid. Yet to learn to trust himself after all.

A true Zen master teaches his students largely by setting things up whereby they learn their own lessons directly for themselves.
My personal jury is still out on Dogen. Plus, if Jacob is actually the bad guy, then Dogen may have done Sayid a huge favor by screwing up Jacob's apparent plan to take over his body.

What i think is weird is that Jacob gave Hugo all this new "power" by speaking to him, etc, but Hugo is already fading into the background of the story again. I think I'm getting tired of this show.

Posted by: camis | February 10, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

OK, I just saw the episode and read everything above and from the 2:00 chat.

Get a grip, people. This was a great show! Really, I'm thinking some of you are infected. (Don't be offended: I will probably be insulting people with that line all year long.)

1. The stuff about people acting unwisely seems like an odd criticism. One, this is fiction; and two, Fate is clearly driving their behavior.

2. Did anyone else notice that they used different camera techniques on a number of these scenes, especially the close-ups? Higher production values, with a more romantic feel - probably a different camera person altogether...

3. Ethan as caring uber-OB was a lovely/weird touch. Also the return of the virus that was such a big side-mystery the first season. I really think this was a great episode.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 10, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

The sonogram date has to be the current date the pics were taken....why would it have the time on it as well (9:42:29)? I've had these done for a couple of tests & they always have the current T & D stamp info for reference. Could it be the Losties "experienced" their whole adventure in a months time & the bomb worked as Juliet said, course correcting them but ofset by one month?

Posted by: harrelsonw | February 11, 2010 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Sayid is clearly not Sayid anymore. He is either Jacob or the MIB. As much as The Others drive us crazy, I believe they aer trying to act in the best interest of everyone. I just wish they could explain themselves. The reason they cannot explain everything must mean they are instrumental in getting folks back to their correct timelines/realities. I also wish Miles would say out loud what he appears to be thinking when he looks at Sayid -- I could hear Sayid when he was dead, now I hear something else.

Posted by: a68comeback | February 11, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I’m back to extol the virtues of What Kate Does.

After sleeping on it, I realize that watching with no commercials may have given me a leg up on the emotional arc of the script. Usually I watch it live – for five plus years now, starting with episode 13! – but because of the snow we recorded it and my 18-year old and I fast-forwarded through the commercials. I don’t mind a few breaks to collect my wits, but the commercial overkill on Lost became a serious rhythm breaker a long time ago. A smaller number of longer breaks would be much better.

Anyhow, this was great storytelling. A number of these characters came to the island with back stories that drove their behavior. We learned the back stories via flashback, and then we saw how they played out on the island. Sawyer ran, Kate ran. Kate typically ran recklessly, imperiling those around her. Jack felt compelled to fix people and to lead, despite “knowing” that he wasn’t strong enough to handle the emotional downside of leading when things went badly for others.

But their time on the island changed them in varying degrees.

In the new timeline airport, Kate runs recklessly, imperiling many people, but Claire in particular. (People have a funny way of dying when driving with her on the lam.) Then the connection to her time on the island kicks in, and she completely flip flops. Now she recklessly imperils *herself* to help Claire and Aaron. Back in the old timeline, she reminds us that she returned to the Island to find Claire to reunite her with Aaron.

And Sawyer. My god, that was heartbreaking. He had finally stopped running; he’d opened his heart to a community/extended family. He opened his heart to Juliet. Now he’s broken by her loss and believes that some people are just meant to be alone.

I thought it was extremely moving.

And Jack and Dogen taking turns demonstrating what leadership means…

And all those great laugh out loud one-liners...

A very good episode. Try it without the interuptions!


Posted by: MeriJ | February 11, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"I also wish Miles would say out loud what he appears to be thinking when he looks at Sayid -- I could hear Sayid when he was dead, now I hear something else."
Posted by: a68comeback

Yea, well, I'm not convinced that Sayid actually died but I agree, Miles knows something. He told Sawyer what Julia said and I'm not convinced he was telling the truth. Keep an eye on Miles.

Posted by: Fate1 | February 11, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Ohhhh, here's a thought. I wonder if Sawyer/Juliet will follow the tragedy of Romeo/Juliet. In the story Juliet fakes her death by drinking a drug that makes her appear dead so her parents would put her in a crypt where Romeo would come to get her and they would run away. The messenger who is taking the message of the plan to Romeo never gets the message to him. Romeo then hears of her death. He goes to the crypt, sees Juliet "dead", is heartbroken, and drinks poison and kills himself. Juliet awakes, sees Romeo dead and kills herself.

"For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Juliet and her Romeo."

Now, Lost's Juliet is dead and supposedly tells Sawyer "It worked", but Sawyer does not believe it worked. He is heartbroken at this time in the story. I am wondering if he will kill himself, preventing him from entering the other timeline. Juliet, waiting for Sawyer in the other timeline, hears of his death and then kills herself due to her heartbreak.

"For never was a story sorrier
Than this of Juliet and her Sawyer."

Posted by: Fate1 | February 11, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

i agree that Miles isn't saying everything he knows. cuz also, he TOLD jack "that's not how it works" when jack asked him to go to the fresh grave and listen to dead Juliet. I think Miles heard or felt SOMETHING but I'm not sure we know exactly what it was yet.

also wondering if "it worked" could have another meaning despite the obvious one about them all landing safely. that would be enough, haha, but i bet there's more.

Posted by: camis | February 11, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

*instead of* the obvious one. oops.

Posted by: camis | February 11, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

*besides* the obvious one. oops again. sorry.

Posted by: camis | February 11, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Why torture Sayid:

None of us knows what the hell is going on. But it did occur to me that smokey may not be as intentional as we assume.

We assume smokie = MIB and is thus fully sentient and in control of its actions. But maybe the torture is akin to testing for a reflexive "knee jerk" response. Maybe MIB or whoever has no control over whether smokie acts in response to provocation. Remember that we used to think it was a defensive system of some kind?

When MIB/Locke was shot, smokey appeared and killed the antagonists. MIB/Locke seemed slightly embarrassed by that, although he did imply that smokie was a manisfestation of himself. When he went back up to the beach, Richard was frantic that no one shoot, even though bullets don't seem to harm him.

Rosseau also tortured Sayid with electricity, and also asked no questions. She just wanted to see how he would react to it, before deciding he was safe enough to untie.

In any case, the part about Sayid not passing might mean that while he passed the test for the moment, this did not prove he was infection-free -- only that the infection had not gone deep enough yet.

Speaking of infection, wasn't Claire innoculated? Or was that only Aaron? And Rousseau, was she insane because she was infected or was she the only one in her team who was not infected?

I guess I'm not convinced Dogen told the truth about "Jack's sister" being infected.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 11, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm wondering if the "alternate" reality isn't the conclusion of the show being played out simultaneously with current events. Whatever concludes what happens on the island we would all be interested in knowing what happened to everyone once they got off the island. So instead of dedicating the last episode to explaining what eventually happens to all the characters, they are playing it out concurrently. We know LOST doesn't like linear story telling (flash backs, flash forwards, etc). So in this way the final episode provides a conclusion to what occurs on the island and after the island.

Not sure if this is what is occurring, but it would be an efficient way of wrapping up more of the total story.

Posted by: pcvhawley | February 12, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I believe that to be infected is to be possessed, appearing normal yet somewhat under the control of MIB or Jacob. It looks like they can be killed (the Frenchmen were finally killed by Rousseau--and if Rousseau was possessed she was also killed).
They seem to be possessed during a near-death or death experience.

Claire was dead or near death and infected/possessed.

Christain Shepard was dead, so his body could be possessed or he could actually be MIB who can also be a shape-shifter or Jacob.

MIB could also have been different characters throughout the entire series (besides dead people)in order to accomplish his goal-- the loophole.

Notice how Rousseau dies then (and only then) Claire becomes the new crazy lady, without her child, building traps and camping out on her own.


Sayid was near-death, dead and is supposedly possessed/infected as well. But Jacob insisted on Sayid's body being taken to the Temple so does Jacob possess a body?

Posted by: KevinAF | February 12, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

RE: "I'm wondering if the "alternate" reality isn't the conclusion of the show being played out simultaneously with current events.":

If so we should expect at least one more time travel to the past to sink the island about the time that the hydrogen bomb would have gone off.

Posted by: KevinAF | February 12, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

hi, everybuddy! apparently i'm one of the few who is enjoying the new episodes. although i agree The Temple of Doom is a bit cheesy, but i faith that this team will give us a satisfying ending.

that said, i think one of the biggest reveals will be that NOBODY really knows what's going on. every "team" thinks it does--jacob's off-islanders, Ben, the Others, the Other Others, Widmore, Elly "I shot my own son"--but i think the big revelation is that none of them really does. Isn't that a long-running theme in the show? As someone mentioned earlier, we all made judgments about individuals early on that got turned on their ears. And we've already seen several know-it-alls (Ben and Richard come most strongly to mind) clearly getting their minds blown and their worlds turned upside down.

Posted by: PQSully | February 12, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Someone above made a comment about the psychic having a real vision about Claire and the plane, which is why he insisted Claire go to CA. What if indeed he truly was 100% fraud, and instead he acted under Other/Dharma/Widmore/take-your-pick pressure? This would expain better his intense desperation to get her to take that plane ticket, if he were being threatened in some way.

Posted by: PQSully | February 12, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

PQSully: > that said, i think one of the biggest reveals will be that NOBODY really knows what's going on. every "team" thinks it does

I'm with PQSully. Even Jacob and MIB are unaware of each other's sub-game. Nobody knows it all.

Unless, of course, the Shadow do...

(That's a Flip Wilson quote, which I'll spell out since none of you are old enough to remember him. But I imagine he was muy big with the Dharma Initiative.)

Posted by: MeriJ | February 12, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

But I imagine he [black comedian Flip Wilson] was muy big with the Dharma Initiative.

After all, he created the phrase WYSIWYG.

TCC, WHH, WYSIWYG... Damn it, I just know it's all connected somehow.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 12, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

so then... reality is subjective?

and each character is experiencing what he/she needs to experience to learn what he/she needs to learn? I think so far in the LAX scenes we have seen glimpses that they have all become a little "better" than they were before - even Kate stops long enough to help someone else - and it is obvious they all have that feeling of something "being familiar" about each other. Whatever each one got out of their island dream-like-death-like experience is now part of them, even though they are not conscious of it.

works for me.

Posted by: camis | February 13, 2010 12:38 AM | Report abuse

"[...] i think one of the biggest reveals will be that NOBODY really knows what's going on. every "team" thinks it does--jacob's off-islanders, Ben, the Others, the Other Others, Widmore, Elly "I shot my own son"--but i think the big revelation is that none of them really does."
Posted by: PQSully

Well, Jacob seems to know what is going on. He has appeared at various points in the story and seems to know what he's doing. What has surprised me is how Ben has gone from the most powerful person on the island to one of the least, totally disillusioned and confused, as is Richard, but Richard also seems scared, which, after years of his stoic confidence is sobering.

Jacob's plan seems to be designed to head off MIB's loophole. Jacob was interested in Locke, being there when he fell. He did not resist when Ben stabbed him. He had the group carry Locke's body to convince Ben and Richard that MIB was not the real Locke, etc. And the last we saw of Jacob he had our heros take Sayid to the temple carrying a message in Hurley's guitar case. I doubt Jacob would have wanted Sayid there if Sayid would become infected unless that is part of his plan.

I also agree that the underwater island and landing in LAX is the ending of this story, how, as Jacob would say, progress was made.

I'm sticking to my theory that Jacob, MIB and maybe others are ancient gods, gods shared by Greece, Egypt and others in the ancient world. I think the sunken island shown as the plane flew over on its way to LAX indicates the gods are now gone in that timeline, Jacob, MIB and others are no longer around, and that is Jacob's plan.

But what we all want to know is how little DieWorm is doing!

Posted by: Fate1 | February 15, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

anybody notice the temple others continually referring to Jack as Shepard last night? this struck me for some reason...possible foreshadowing for his re-emergence as the hero, or anti-roginal "shepard"?
Posted by: chrisgraul

That definitely stuck out to me, as did Kate calling Sawyer "James" at one point. Of course, that's what Juliet used to call him, too. It seems that many on-island identities are currently in flux.

Posted by: clr5f | February 15, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

> anybody notice the temple others continually referring to Jack as Shepard last night?

I believe they used last names for everyone. They definitely referred to Sawyer as Ford. But, yeah, I'd forgotten that the name Shephard actually means something. Nice catch.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 15, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

oh no - i forget who DieWorm was.

names - yeah, and Hugo surprised everyone by introducing himself to the new other others (whatever) as Hurley.

i think that scratch on Jack's neck has more meaning than just reminding us that he has shaved. i think it has something to do with the "disturbance" they felt as they passed over where the island used to be. or not.

Posted by: camis | February 15, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

"oh no - i forget who DieWorm was."
Posted by: camis

DieWorm is the Sully's puppy, famous for killing a worm. I wonder if he's aged or if he's still young, like Richard...

"names - yeah, and Hugo surprised everyone by introducing himself to the new other others (whatever) as Hurley."
Posted by: camis

I don't remember anything significant about the names used. After all, the Temple people just met them and may be going by something formal, like last names, or by the names on the list. If its something subtle has a hidden meaning, well, more power to the writers.

"i think that scratch on Jack's neck has more meaning than just reminding us that he has shaved. i think it has something to do with the "disturbance" they felt as they passed over where the island used to be. or not."
Posted by: camis

I agree. The episode was full of references back to their experiences on the island, or their relationships. But Jack seemed to me to possibly remember what happened on the island, as though he is there to guide the others after landing at LAX.


Posted by: Fate1 | February 15, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Charlie "Die Worm" (anagram for Widmore!)is a whole year old now and has moved on from worms to bugs. Rolled in a dead cricket just yesterday. P.S. Dead crickets rubbed on puppy necks smell BAD.

Clarification: I DO think that Jacob and MIB know what they're doing, but I think everyone's else's opinion is just that, an opinion reached based on their experiences. That's why I also don't buy the ancient god theory (sorry, Fate1): i think this cycle of people being brought to the island has been going on for centuries, including some ancient Egyptians who, when faced with the island's mysteries, interpreted it based on their beliefs in their gods. Thus the temple and Four-Toes, etc.

Posted by: PQSully | February 16, 2010 7:26 AM | Report abuse

I'm still with PQSully. That last post about the Egyptians sums up my thoughts exactly.

Fate1 wrote: "I don't remember anything significant about the names used."

And also: "But Jack seemed to me to possibly remember what happened on the island, as though he is there to guide the others after landing at LAX."

Ahh. And therein lies clr5f's point about Jack's last name.

Posted by: MeriJ | February 16, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

DieWorm is the Sully's puppy, famous for killing a worm. I wonder if he's aged or if he's still young, like Richard...

HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT ?!?!

Sorry, Sully, But glad to hear Charlie's moved on to crickets.

will watch the whole name thing closely from now on.

Posted by: camis | February 16, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

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