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Posted at 10:15 AM ET, 04/21/2010

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: 'The Last Recruit'

By Liz Kelly and Jen Chaney
Lost

In which Jen and Liz disagree on, well, almost everything. Read along, then join them at 2 p.m. ET for the "Lost" Hour live chat. In the meantime, visit "Lost" Central to brush up on your island back story.


Reunited and it feels so good: Jin (Daniel Dae Kim) and Sun (Yunjin Kim). (ABC)

Jen: So here we sit with two long, tortuous weeks to ponder what we saw in "The Last Recruit." And while we saw a good many things, perhaps the most significant ones occurred in those last few moments, when Jack was again cheek-down on the sand, explosions having dulled his sense of sound, just as he was when we first began this journey back on Sept. 22, 2004. Except this time, Locke/MIB looked at him and said "You're with me now." And so it is. John Locke -- both the one currently occupied by MIB, and the one from season one who tried to convince Jack that the island really had brought them there for a reason -- has won.

Liz: Whoa. Hold on one minute there, Jen, before you go declaring the dark side victorious. Jack may be with MIB in the sense that he made the choice to return to the island (again) and, yes, MIB's orbit. But I'm not sure that means MIB has won. Before Jack jumped ship he made a pretty convincing speech to Sawyer about how leaving the island not only didn't feel right, but also was probably the wrong thing to do since it is what MIB -- I think Jack may even have called him "that thing" or "that monster" -- wants. So, while Jack may appear to be under MIB's thumb, I wouldn't count him out just yet. Jack has become, in a sense, Locke -- the real one, that is. He is the man of faith and, as he said, the island isn't done with him yet. Note, he said "the island," not "the monster masquerading as John Locke."

Much more after the jump...

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Text "LOST" to 98999 to get The Post's latest "Lost" news -- and our weekly post-show dueling analysis -- sent directly to your phone.

Liz: And are you implying that MIB has won or the spirit of the true John Locke's belief in the island has won?

Jen: I'm implying both things, in a way. Allow me to elaborate. (Or to put it in vaguely Vanilla Ice-ian terms, I'll stop, elaborate and you can listen.)

At the moment -- a moment I fully expect to flip-flop in the near future -- Jack seems to be in MIB's control. I don't think he'll stay that way, assuming he even fully is right now. As Hurley made clear, it's possible to return from the dark side, even if Sawyer doesn't know who the hell Anakin is. (Easily my favorite one-liner of the night, BTW.) But there's a symmetry in that because as we both said, although you said it better, Jack has essentially become season-one Locke. He has put all his faith and identity in the island. Without it, as he noted, a part of him is missing. Also, for the record, Jack certainly seems to be The Last Recruit referred to in the episode's title. But I'm still betting he also may be the person referred to in our next episode name -- The Candidate -- even if it appears Sawyer already assembled the candidates Widmore is seeking.

Liz: Agreed. He's the candidate. But what you just wrote has got me thinking. As Jack is poised to save John Locke's life in sideways world, could it be that on island he's also going to attempt to bring Locke/MIB back from the dark side? I wonder, could Jack possibly succeed where Jacob failed?

It's interesting, by the way, that we're spending so much time talking about Jack when Damon Lindelof, in this week's official podcast, described this episode as not character-centric. And it really wasn't. Aside from the Jack/MIB interactions, this episode was all about moving the pawns into place in preparation for what comes next. Both on island and in sideways world our characters are converging. As MIB said, "So nice to see everyone back together again."

Jen: That's definitely true. It wasn't any single character's story, but a true ensemble piece. But I think what's happening between Locke and Jack right now is the most key element.

Not to keep harping on Jack but he did, God bless him, finally ask a very valid and useful follow-up question! After not getting an answer from MIB to "Who else have you looked like?" he very directly posed the query: "Were you my dad?" And the answer was yes. Which was hardly a surprise at this point, but another item to check off on our lists of mysteries resolved. And it also suggests that any souls not at rest on the island may be MIB's doing. His discontent is causing instability -- electromagnetic, ghost Michael being too intense -- of all sorts.

Liz: Indeed. But since we touched on the idea of bringing someone back from the dark side, maybe we should explore that.

We've got two, possibly three characters, who are candidates for cleansing: Sayid, Claire and quite possibly Locke/MIB. And we may have seen two of those three take significant strides toward the light in this episode. First Claire, who surrendered to Kate and threw in her lot with Sawyer and company. She is either openly defying MIB or very cleverly playing both sides of the fence.

The one I'm more convinced has had a change of heart is Sayid. Although we were left hanging, I don't think he shot Desmond. Confronted with the loss of his humanity and how he would possibly explain that to Nadia, he finally -- for lack of a better descriptor -- snapped out it. I think we'll see a different side of Sayid from this point on. He may still be gloomy, morose reanimated Sayid, but he'll be working against MIB to help his old friends get back what he himself will likely never re-attain: a life off of the island.

And the fact that both Claire and Sayid made that choice only validates Jacob's theory that man can choose to do right.

Jen: Well said. I agree with you about Sayid. And not to keep falling back on "Star Wars" references -- although, heck, why not? The "Lost" writers do -- but I am reminded of Han Solo, the antihero who got cryogenically frozen in "Empire." When he thawed out, how awesome was it to see that dude back in action? Pretty awesome. And when Sayid does snap out of it -- and I believe he will -- that's going to be an incredible moment for the audience.

Re: the Nadia thing: That reminded me a lot of the arrangement Sayid made with Ben, which was motivated by Sayid's need to avenge her death. That woman. It's not her fault, but she has caused Sayid more trouble over the years...

And speaking of trouble, our dynamic law-enforcement duo -- that's Sawyer and Miles -- managed to get their man (that's Sayid) in L.A., apprehending him for wiping out Keamy and co. Clever that Sawyer, pulling the 'ol trip-him-with-the-garden-hose trick. Another moment that reminded me of season 1, when Sayid found the cable in the sand and eventually tripped his way into Rousseau's trap.

Liz: Ooh, good catch. And that's just the reason I always make sure my garden hose is properly spooled and stored. You never know when you may need to make a quick back-door escape.

One more thing about island Sayid... I must have had some kind of memory loss when I fell out of my chair a few minutes ago. You know, when you mentioned Vanilla Ice and I had a seizure? But, he credited MIB with bringing him back to life. As I recall it was Dogen. I mean, sure, Dogen then tried to kill him again because he thought Sayid had been somehow touched by MIB, but I don't think MIB gets credit for Sayid's return from the other side. Does he?

Jen: Well, Sayid was "infected." And the "infection" to me is like a mini-version of being occupied by MIB. It's the equivalent of receiving the touch of Jacob, except you're getting it from Evil McSmokey. So I do think he reanimated Sayid, and did the same for Claire as well. I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.

Liz: Okay, fair enough. But back to L.A... maybe we should talk about the gathering of the Losties in sideways world and why in the world we had Sun recognize Locke as they were rushed into the hospital, only to have it completely dropped for the rest of the episode.

Jen: Oh, please, let's talk about that. Because I wondered about that myself.

Liz: Well, that bit of footage was part of the sneak peek released earlier this week. And in yesterday's "Lost" 5 post I posited (along with the rest of the "Lost"-watching world, no doubt) that perhaps Sun's brush with a near death experience put her in the altered state necessary for these folks to remember their island past (a la Hurley and Desmond). But then when it wasn't brought up again, well, it was kind of deflating.

So did she really recognize Locke -- a guy with whom she'd been stranded on a South Pacific island -- or did she just remember him from the flight to L.A.?

Jen: I interpreted that moment as you did: a bleed-through. Sun was on the verge of death and that allowed her brain to access her memories of that other life. But yes, given her terror at the sight of him, it seemed odd that she didn't mention it later. I know she was totally out of it, but still. In keeping with what happened to previous recallers, it should have left a permanent impression.

I wasn't entirely happy with the handling of Jin and Sun tonight, I have to say.

Liz: Yeah. Their reunion was, well, kind of underwhelming. After all that time it just seemed like an anti-climax. Especially when held up against the care given to the big moments we've seen between Penny and Desmond or Sawyer and Juliet.

Jen: When they finally -- FINALLY -- reunite on the island after a season-plus apart, I was all ready to be moved. And I was, for a second. But the dialogue in that scene was so lame.

"I love you. I looked for you. I will never leave you again." Really? That's all you got? It felt rushed, and like generic crap that any characters in any junky romance novel would say. And yes, so not up to par with other romantic scenes that have unfolded on this show. Even -- and please don't choke -- the little confab between Sawyer and Kate in the police station.

Liz: Oh, and that pithy "looks like someone got their voice back" from Frank just totally killed the moment. And after all that time apart would their first words to each other really be in English rather than their native tongue, the language in which they first fell in love? It's as if the writers had to check this off the list and gave it short shrift. And that shouldn't have happened in an episode that could have used a few more dramatic moments.

But back to sideways world for a moment, maybe we should quickly tick off some of the other intersecting story lines/characters because, just like on the island, our Losties are coming together. Oh, and we got to see Ilana again -- sans vest and all in one piece.

Jen: Yes, Ilana is now apparently an attorney who specializes in estate planning, at least as long as it involves guys who once showed up dead, then alive on the island. Her involvement in Christian Shephard's will brought Jack, Claire and young David back together. Count lil' Aaron in Claire's tummy, and that's the whole Christian Shephard lineage right there.

Did you notice, by the way, the name of the law firm where Ilana works?

Liz: Nope, but I'm betting you did.

Jen: You're right, because I'm goofy enough to pause the DVR and read through glass backwards. The name appeared to be Sweetzer and Verdansky. Significance of Sweetzer, best as I can tell, is two-fold.

Sweetzer was one of the streets mentioned in "Happily Ever After," one half of the intersection where Desmond and Penny planned to meet for coffee. It's also, weirdly, the name of an independent film in which Jorge Garcia reportedly played a sex addict.

Liz: Oh you are good. Anything on Verdansky -- which, I assume, is Ilana's last name?

Jen: Best I could tell, that might be a partially misspelled reference to Vladimir Vernadsky, a Russian geochemist who believed that human life and cognition had a powerful impact on shaping Earth's evolution.

Liz: What is Desmond's connection to Ilana the attorney, though? Is she somehow in on his plan to force the Losties into total recall of their island past (because she had this sort of smirking, knowing look about her. Or maybe that was just her doing her best lawyer) or is Des still working this thing solo? If so, the fact that he knows Claire and Jack are sibs makes me think he must be privy to a lot more information than he should be. I mean, I don't think it ever came up on island that Jack and Claire were related -- at least not in his presence.

Jen: I assumed that Ilana didn't know what was going on, especially since she seemed genuinely surprised to have found Claire standing in front of her. But Desmond, at this point, knows all. The electromagnetic infusion gave him knowledge not only of both timelines, but seemingly knowledge of everything. As we said last week (I think?), he seems to have become the new Jacob, all-knowing and controlling everyone's destinies.

Liz: In other off-island intersections: Jack is after all, as I believe you predicted several weeks ago, set to operate on John Locke. And did you catch his casual, cocky "I got this" as he strode into the operating room? More proof that sideways Jack is in a much better place -- spiritually, mentally, etc. No longer is the bundle of frayed nerves that tenses up and needs to breathe and count to 10 when faced with a tough operation.

Jen: That's very true. Although, I wasn't sure if his realization that he knew John might have thrown him a bit. The image of John, face down on an operating table? A little reminiscent of Ben when Jack was supposed to operate on him back in season three.

So at the close of the episode, we have two parallel situations with John and Jack, one in which Jack seems to be in control of "fixing" John (in the OR) and another where Locke/MIB seems to have "fixed" Jack right where he wants him. As we discussed earlier, though, I think Jack won't be under MIB's control for long, because I think the MIB "spell" only half-worked. After talking to him, as Claire suggested, he acted a little differently, most notably by constantly sitting alone, a la Sayid. But his actions seem to be motivated by faith in the island, which seems to be the major thing MIB lacks at this point. And if having some measure of faith doesn't win on this show, well, let's just say I'll be a little surprised.

Liz: Speaking of surprises, did you hear Sawyer call Lapidus "chesty"? If I'm correct in assuming that Sawyer is referring to Frank's unbuttoned shirt, well, that was rich coming from the shirtless wonder.

Jen: Sawyer also said Lapidus looked like he just walked off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie, so he was full of observations about dear old Jeff Fahey.

But since we're on the topic of Sawyer, even you had to admit that the back-and-forth between him and Kate in the police station was rather... zesty.

"Oh, I like you." Both facing each other while wearing black leather and blue jeans. And I have to think it wasn't an accident that shiny red apples were everywhere in that scene. Proof that Kate and Sawyer are our Adam and Eve, or just false clues to make us think that?

Liz: They can't seem to resist one another. In either timeline. So this episode must've been a big fave with Skater fans. Even on the island, Kate seems distressed when Jack jumps off the Elizabeth (Desmond's old boat, by the way), but stays with Sawyer. Which is kind of a reversal of how she felt about leaving Jack on Hydra island back in season three. And our editor points out that Jack jumping ship -- to do something he believes will save everyone -- is reminiscent of Sawyer bailing out of the helicopter to allow the rest of the Oceanic 6 to survive.

Jen: Well, it was an echo to me. She watched him swim away and said she had to go back for him. And Sawyer said: There's no more going back. Meaning, you're not doing that again, Kate. And also, perhaps, another way of saying we're almost at the end of the show. (Sob.)

Liz: Interesting notion re: Adam and Eve. But maybe we're reading too much into those apples? Perhaps the police department was in the midst of a health campaign when Kate was brought in.

Jen: Yes, maybe it's all a big promotion for "Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution."

Liz: For some reason I'm just not seeing those two ending up locked in a skeletal embrace clutching white and black stones. But who knows? I do think it is looking like Kate may end up -- if she ends up with anyone -- with Sawyer. Jack seems to be headed toward a more monk-like existence.

Jen: Well, and there's also the matter of that mother-of-David Jack spoke to on the phone. Perhaps she's his destiny, whoever she turns out to be.

Anyway, I suspect we'll find out more about all that, not to mention more about Mr. Locke, when "The Candidate" airs in two -- argh! -- weeks. Mr. Locke -- I love that Ben calls John that when they're in the ambulance. Because, of course, the only other character who ever called John that was ... Walt. Once again, we're back to the beginning. It really is good to see everyone here again.

So, shall we table the discussion until the 2 p.m. chat?

Liz: Indeed. I'll see you then, Ms. Chaney.

By Liz Kelly and Jen Chaney  | April 21, 2010; 10:15 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  | Tags:  Lost  
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Comments

I would have liked it better if Jack (or anyone) had had second thoughts about leaving people like Cindy and Zach and Emma and the Temple redshirts behind in the hands of a monster while the Important People sneaked away to safety. But no, it turned out that Jack's second thoughts were about the Island needing him, not about abandoning children on an Island ruled by a monster. I guess I shouldn't have been expecting better from a guy who'd ditch his own sister...yet Jack's the only one with any conscience, though Kate at least stood up for Claire once she got there (though not before).

Posted by: UniqueID | April 21, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

No mention of the ending of the episode? Why did Widmore turn on Sawyer and the rest of the Losties? Is it because Jack wasn't there and he too wanted all of them for some yet unknown reason? Or was it because he believed Sawyer had something to do with Desmond disappearing? What's up with that?

Posted by: hodie | April 21, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

First?

Posted by: thrh | April 21, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

what about the kool aid line? something about how claire was sipping on MIB's koolaid. That was my favorite line!

Posted by: jr5730a | April 21, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

hodie, I'm not quite sure what else Sawyer was expecting. He knows Widmore is no good guy and was planning to double cross him himself. But they did have a deal in place: Sawyer would deliver MIB into Charles's hands, and Charles would take Sawyer and his friends off the Island.

But instead, Sawyer ditches MIB and shows up on Hydra Island with a bunch of random useless people like Sun and Claire. I don't know what else he was expecting other than to be treated very harshly by Widmore. He really copulated the canine on this one.

Posted by: UniqueID | April 21, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

And what about Scarecrow's brain??!

Man, I'm almost beyond theorizing these days--just enjoying the ride. I hope Claire's choice is genuine; I kind of think it was.

Posted by: PQSully | April 21, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Claire told Jack that once you talk to MIB, it's all over

...And Sun still hasn't spoken to him (because of her convenient temporary language thing)

Posted by: echovector | April 21, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I will say that I never had the impression that Jack was under MIB's sway at the end. I thought it was pretty clear that Jack came back to the island to defeat "that thing," and that MIB has miscalculated and thinks that Jack chose MIB's side.

Also, I got mad when MIB talked smack about John Locke and his faith. I think MIB's cynicism and lack of faith will come back to bite him, and Locke will be (posthumously) vindicated.

Posted by: PQSully | April 21, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Granted, I haven't been married, then separated from my husband while pregnant, then away from him for three years, then hauled around on an island for a little while before finally being reunited, so I can't exactly relate, but I was surprised that Sun and Jin's heartwarming reunion didn't immediately include some mention of Ji Yeon. We know that Jin is aware of her and has seen her picture, thanks to Widmore, but does Sun even know that Jin knows? I thought it would be one of the first things she would say to him. You know, "I love you, I came back for you, and oh by the way, we have a beautiful little girl and I named her Ji Yeon just like we agreed..."

Besides seeming a little off, I wonder if that tells us anything about the significance (or nonsignificance) of Ji Yeon to the story, perhaps in contrast to Aaron.

Posted by: Janine1 | April 21, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Janine1, I didn't see anything sinister in that. I mean, they were reunited unexpectedly, certainly both in shock, and then they barely had 10 seconds to absorb that they were really in each other's presence before the Widmore Gang pulled guns on them. I think if I'd gone through the separation they had, it would be a few minutes before I could string together enough words to say anything more intelligible than "I love you."

Posted by: PQSully | April 21, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Best line of the night was Sawyer saying "Sayid is a zombie."

I totally thought about ditching everyone else and leaving them in the hands of the monsters as the "cool club" at school. Claire was not invited to eat lunch with them that day. Zing.

I agree with others who are saying that Jack seemed to be pretty under control with MIB at the end.

Posted by: smynola06 | April 21, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

This was a fast paced set-up for the final act, with major shifts in the placement of most cast members.

On the island:

All the candidates peeled off from MIB and are now imprisoned by Widmore on Hydra. Except Jack, who made the intuitive leap that if the monster desperately wants them off the island, that can hardly be a good thing to do. Sayid and Claire appear to have jumped ship from MIB – literally, in Claire’s case, thanks to a heart-felt appeal from Kate. (Not everyone abandoned Claire, after all.)

Desmond has already made a major contribution by turning Sayid, and he hasn’t even done whatever he’ll eventually do with a catastrophic EM incident.

In the “near miss” category, Kate was not shot in the belly by Claire, Sun and Jin were not brain fried by the sonic fence, Jack was not killed by mortar fire (probably) and Desmond was not executed by Sayid.

At long last, Sun and Jin were reunited. However the writers chose not to linger on that sentimental moment, almost immediately dismissing it with Widmore’s betrayal (or excess of caution). It felt like someone ripping a turntable needle across an LP just as the music was hitting the sweet notes.

In LA X, the sh!t is hitting the fan all at once. Sun recognizes Locke on the gurney and remembers to be afraid of him. Jack meets Claire and learns that Christian was unfaithful to his mom, but he continues to bond with his son, ending the cycle of father-son dysfunction. Jack then recognizes Locke in his surgical mirror.

James and Kate are reunited for a round of bad boy-bad girl mind games. James and Miles capture Sayid, but only after he has a chance to face Nadia’s mortification that he hurt someone again.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Was Jack's son in the sideways timeline the boy on the island?

Posted by: twinbrook | April 21, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I was a little underwhelmed by this episode, especially after a handful of really great eps. It seemed to shoehorn a lot of plot advancement into the hour at the expense of character development (e.g. Sun and Jin's reunion). This only highlights what a waste most of the temple stuff was earlier this season. I'm in for the long haul, naturally, but I hope the rest of the season doesn't flow the same as this episode.

Posted by: Skeeterrific | April 21, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Was it just me, but I thought I saw the neck scrape from the first episode of LAX appear on Jack's neck at the end of this episode, after fake Locke/MIB picked Jack up after Widmore's scud missile attack.

Posted by: QIOMD | April 21, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

jr5730a - there is kind of a Jonestown feeling going on there that was captured in that line, isn't there?

Any thoughts on "Jack" being a nickname for "John" & if that is meaningful?

Posted by: mat00 | April 21, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I continue to be pleased that, despite being so very close to the end, I still have no idea what the hell is going on. Hypotheses? I have a million of them. Any real clue of how all this comes together? Not even a glimmer. Pretty cool, really.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Claire: "He finds out we're gone, he's going to be mad."

Posted by: UniqueID | April 21, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

The pacing of TV shows vs. films:

If you told a movie director that he “only” had 4-5 more hours of screen time to bring it all together, I think he’d be rather pleased.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

I agree that Desmond seems to have become the new Jacob, in sideways world. He also seems Jacob-like on the island. His conversation with Sayid was, in tone, reminiscent of Jacob's with Ben befor Ben stuck a knife in his chest -- "you always have a choice." I, too, think Sayid chose differently. Did Jacob set Sayid up for having to make this choice at the time he distracted Sayid (or saved him from being hit by a car) -- while letting Nadia perish? Michael had no problem killing innocent people when he thought it would get Walt back -- and he's (if it was him and not MiB) stuck on the island.

Posted by: Tracy4 | April 21, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Flocke intentionally let the other Candidates leave on the boat (knowing that Sawyer would make a run for it). He could have used that as a way to find out which of the candidates was the real recruit as that person would not join the others to leave due to the islands pull.

So now Flocke has the true recruit and perhaps doesn't need the other candidates (eg, doesn't care whether they live or die). It's just going to be him an Jack for the big fight at the end.

Food for thought anyway :)

Posted by: Curious1000 | April 21, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Some good points, Meri. I think Jack's reasoning was a bit at fault - it's not so much that MIB is trying to get Jack and all off the Island, as to use them to get himself off - but he's going to end up being right even if for the wrong reason. I'm a little more cynical regarding Kate's rediscovered devotion to Claire. She didn't seem to have a problem with Sawyer having Jack leave Claire behind - it was only Sayid that Kate asked about then. Only once Claire showed up and pointed a gun at them did Kate suddenly remember her reason for coming back to the Island.

As I said before, I don't think Widmore can be accused of betrayal per se, though obviously he shouldn't be paying geologists to point guns at people regardless.

I agree that the long-awaited Sun-Jin reunion was underwhelming. Earlier they had hyped the huge Kate-Sawyer reunion as the one everyone had been waiting for. Not me, but I think the writers are correct in believing that much more of their fan base is Sawyer- and Kate-focused than cares about the Kwons.

Posted by: UniqueID | April 21, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Jack is in MIB's influence at all. Jack went back because getting off the island is what MIB wants.

I agree that the Sun-Jin reunion was underwhelming. But I still couldn't help tearing up over it.

I think the writers are setting up the notion that someone will stay behind as the new Jacob (Jack? Locke? who?) with all this candidate talk, but I predict that no one is going to stay behind. The season will conclude with ending the battle between Jacob and MIB, the island will end up at the bottom of the ocean (as seen in the season opener), and the sideways universe becomes the new reality for everyone. In the sideways reality, everyone is in a much much better place, except Sayid and Kate. But I think they're going to make it so Sayid was doing self-defense so he's free to go and Nadia will end up with him. Kate, I don't know how they're going to make her better off. But everyone else will end up in a good place. Sun and Jin will escape to America with their new baby, Jack is happier and has a good relationship with his son (still predict Juliet is the ex), Sawyer and Miles are well-adjusted people, Locke is going to have his spine repaired and be with the woman he loves, Charlie-Daniel-Charlotte-Boone-Shannon are all alive, and Hurley is a millionaire who found his true love. And with the help of Desmond, they might even remember their island experiences and be better people because of it.

Posted by: Dr_Bob | April 21, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

A couple of thoughts (all of which may be stating the obvious): letting MIB speak to you doesn't seem to have the permanent effect that folks thought. Even though he spoke to Claire and Sayid, they both (as you mentioned) seemed to be able to make choices for themselves, in spite of being under MIB's thumb for a while.

I agree that Jack hasn't crossed over to the dark side. I think MIB thinks this is the case, but I think he has miscalculated (as also has been mentioned).

I was pretty sure that Kate was going to bite it at the hands of Claire and her rifle. Although she didn't, I'm convinced that she will eventually, given that she hasn't seen any real transformation or development in her sideways flash (i.e., resolution in sideways flash brings some sort of resolution on the island).

While I do believe Jack is "the one," I still have a small belief that Desmond (who is acting very Jacob-like making contact with folks off the island) should still be in the running. I also think Hurley (who Jack asked about whether he should talk to MIB) will be to Jack what Richard was to Jacob (an advisor).

Finally, I was thinking that it's been a while since we've seen Jacob. But then I realized that the group doesn't really "need" Jacob anymore. This, too, was evidenced by the fact that Ilana died (especially after making a big deal about how it was her mission in life to protect the candidates and that she trained her entire life to do so). The Losties no longer need her or Jacob's protection because "the one" has assumed the role of protecting the island, even if he's not fully aware of it yet (more evidence pointing to Jack).

Posted by: clw96 | April 21, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

The good thing was that Sun and Jin seemingly got a happily-ever-after ending in both realities - which most of the others do not. They're going to have to really choose.

As for Widmore's switch play at the end - I can only surmise that he always had some plan to use all of them for the same reason MIB seems to need to use all of them - to forge some cosmic/electromagnetic "link" or other - to do whatever it is he wants to do (whether that's destroy the island, imprison MIB forever - or just what - I'm still not clear). Including Desmond all of them are just some pawns to Widmore to get what he wants.

The castaways themselves are the only ones who sometimes really do try to look out for one another. Jacob, MIB, Widmore - they have always been looking after themselves - as did Ben, until he paid such a dear price (losing his adopted daughter) and for nothing. Ben is still not at the point that he is acting altruistically - but at least he seems to have stopped being such a total user. For him, that's saying a lot and probably as redemptive as it gets.

Posted by: jqw3827 | April 21, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

> "I wonder if Flocke intentionally let the other Candidates leave on the boat (knowing that Sawyer would make a run for it). He could have used that as a way to find out which of the candidates was the real recruit"


Excellent point, Curious1000!

If true, it will be especially ironic, if Jack turns out to the one who sees clearly enough to bring about MIB's demise.

MIB seems more clever than wise. He thinks he understand people based on what he reads in their memories. (Are memories stored in the brain electriclly?) But he doesn't really get the nuances of human nature and motivation. It's all black and white to him.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps a silly question, but where the hell are Bernard and Rose?

Posted by: lizanndc | April 21, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I know that Desmond is not a Candidate, and that Sayid is technically dead, but their conversation at the well had a very Jacob/MIB vibe.

Posted by: kbockl | April 21, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Another thought: the surgery that Jack performs on Locke in sideways world may be what's needed to "remove" the MIB infection and "restore" Locke.

Posted by: clw96 | April 21, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Jack's Sideways son David is played by Dylan Minette.

The boy on the island is played by Kenton Duty.

Posted by: Ghak | April 21, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Thinking about Sawyer, Kate and the apples - if you look at each character's two choices, most are quite clear. Sun & Jin land on their feet regardless. Sayid doesn't - regardless.

But Hurley would clearly only be better off leaving the island for Sideways reality; as would Ben - and possibly Locke if Jack can help him walk again.

As for Sawyer and Kate - what kind of future could they really have if she ended up serving time? And island Sawyer can't or won't probably want to forget all about the true love he had for Juliet (oh Romeo & Juliet). So it would be unsurprising if he and Kate chose to be together and as happy as possible by staying on island.

Sawyer has proven in the past that he is capable of personal sacrifice. And he may yet change his mind that leaving is the thing he must do. Did you see how choked up he was at Sun & Jin's reunion. He knows he's never going to personally get that - and I think he'd be willing to do what he had to ensure that Sun & Jin get to keep what they've got.

I also think Kate would feel that way if her staying somehow enabled Claire to get away. Because Claire, too, would clearly have a better life in the Sideways world.

So I can easily see both Sawyer and Kate giving over to their true better natures and staying if it means a couple of the others can make it State&Sideways-side.

The one I'm less sure about is Jack. He would clearly have a better life off-island - but he may voluntarily choose the monklike sacrifice for the greater good.

Posted by: jqw3827 | April 21, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

lizanndc, Bernard and Rose are still on the main island hiding out, blissfully unaware of anything, relaxing in their island hut.

Oh, and I predict in the sideways reality, Bernard and Rose will be retired and living at an island home somewhere.

Posted by: Dr_Bob | April 21, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

i'm no big Kate fan, although I don't hate her like some. BUT I think we can't judge yet whether Sideways Kate has found some redemption. She DID endanger her freedom by helping Claire. And she still maintains her innocence regarding the murder: perhaps in this timeline, she truly IS innocent.

Posted by: PQSully | April 21, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Bernard and Rose were not at the Swan station for the nuclear bomb explosion, so I assume that they didn't jump back through time.

So, they continued their life together back in 1977. If they are still alive in 2007, they would be quite old.

Posted by: Ghak | April 21, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

prediction: Jack's ex-wife is Juliette.

Posted by: twinbrook | April 21, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Kate evolved in her 1st LA X flashsideways:

Her motif had been that of a self-absorbed woman who runs away, recklessly endangering others in pursuit of her narrow impulses. Not a bad person, but not a good person to be around. And definitely not a good person to be around in a car or a bank lobby!

In LA X, she started out that way, but then put herself at great risk to help Claire (and Aaron). That's growth.

And it's true that she went back to the island -- in the original timeline -- for the sole person of finding Claire to reunite her with Aaron. A selfish person would have kept the child she loved and been relieved the natural mom was conveniently out of the picture.

I want to see the poll of how many Katers (my own shipper term for "Kate Haters") were praying Claire would shoot her in the belly. Cuz, you know, it's always in the belly for these women on Lost.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Very good points, MeriJ. Perhaps I should have said that her situation doesn't seem "resolved," for lack of a better word.

Posted by: clw96 | April 21, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

PQSully said: "Also, I got mad when MIB talked smack about John Locke and his faith. I think MIB's cynicism and lack of faith will come back to bite him, and Locke will be (posthumously) vindicated."


It really does feel that way, doesn't it? The biggest clue was MIB shouting Locke's signature line, "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

The funny thing is, MIB's not even in Locke's actual body. But somehow, Locke is bleeding through. The more MIB trash-talks Locke's faith and basic goodness, the more likely it seems that this will be his downfall. Presumably as foreseen by Jacob from the start.

I repeat, MIB is not a deep thinker when it comes to understanding humanity. I guess that was Jacob's point all along.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Island Bernard & Rose are likely still in the woods somewhere. However, alternate Bernard & Rose are back in LA as well. Rose was the manager at the placement agency where Hugo sent Locke to be a teacher.

I piecing together a new idea as to how this is all going to wrap up... so didn't MIB 1.0 say to Richard that Jacob had stolen his body? So here's my hunch: Jack is THE candidate, but that means he's the candidate to give himself over to the island... ie. hand over his body to Jacob's spirit, essence, whatever. Which means MIB 1.0 was once a candidate as well, and his spirit, essence, whatever was left on the island when Jacob assumed his body. So, after 1000's of years, he's kinda pissed with Jacob ("Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?") and wants to get the hell outta there.

Hhhhmmmm, I'm liking this...

Posted by: adp21 | April 21, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking Jack "died" in the blast and has gone the way of Sayid/Claire.

Posted by: eet7e | April 21, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Sideways Vincent is living in a cozy beach house in Malibu.

Posted by: chunche | April 21, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Why do we assume that Desmond turned Sayid around when we've seen nothing (although I do agree with you all on that), but are so quick to group Jack and MIB together when he was so clearly anti-MIB on the boat?

Yes, Claire said that once Locke talks to you, he's got you, but even after Locke talked Jack was still all anti-MIB. Jack's idea of what would happen if we stayed seemed very Jacob and the wine bottle to me.

Posted by: messenger1 | April 21, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I think the cheeky name that Sawyer used to refer to Lapidus on the boat was "Chesley" (as in Chesley Sullenberger), not chesty...

Posted by: brettlc | April 21, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

clw96 and Curious1000 make interesting points regarding the MIB/Locke/Jack dynamic. I cannot recall -- does MIB know what's going on in sideways world? Widmore seems to understand something is happening there and changes are accelerating the timeline. If MIB does not know, then perhaps Jack's surgery on Locke will somehow affect MIB. I guess this could be obvious, but seems to me that events in the sideways world will determine the resolution on the island.

Posted by: teamn | April 21, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think the timeline for the Sawyer/Miles capture of Sayid is a little off? Is the LAPD is just amazingly fast in this reality?

Think about it... Sayid kills everyone at the restaurant and then goes back to Nadia's house to pack up and leave. In the amount of time it takes him to get there and pull out a suitcase, the LAPD has found the bodies, assigned Miles and Sawyer to the case, got the video footage of Sayid leaving the restaurant, identified Sayid, found out where he is staying in LA, and driven there to arrest him.

I know traffic in LA is bad, so I guess Sayid was stuck in one hell of a traffic jam getting back to Nadia's house?

Posted by: y1776 | April 21, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I don't hate Kate, but I was hoping that Claire would shoot her last night for clarity on good/evil. But perhaps it's all supposed to be gray like life.

I love all the characters however I think we know that not everyone will be alive at the end of the series? I hope I'm wrong, but in the meantime I'm enjoying the "edge-of-my-seat" ride!

Posted by: grapeeape | April 21, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Who else wanted Claire to gun Kate in the gut in the dock scene? I was so hoping she was a gonner. oh well.

Posted by: skitch00 | April 21, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Was I the only person screaming(in my head only, I held back) "SONIC FENCE! SONIC FENCE!" at Sun and Jin? I mean, nobody there even bothered to try to warn them. It threw me way off.

Posted by: NotForYou1 | April 21, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure we can trust what Flocke told Jack about being Christian. When Jack asked, Locke made a really strange face and then just said yes that it was him. But if that's so, how did he appear to Michael as Christian on the freighter "releasing him", if Flocke can't cross water on his own. As well, Christian's body disappeared, but Locke's did not. I don't think we can cross this off the list just yet.

Posted by: cgindc | April 21, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I agree re: Christian. He also appeared to Jack in the lobby in LA.

MIB is a bit fat lying Volcanic Ash cloud.

Posted by: chunche | April 21, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

brettic, not that closed captioning is !00% accurate, but it said "Chesty" as well for Sawyer's nickname for Lapidus.

Merij, I like your theory about Locke's soul/consciousness bleeding through to MIB. But if Jacob was the original body snatcher, what is he there for? As much as I like this, I somehow doubt this is what it is.

Posted by: hodie | April 21, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Who was The Last Recruit?

Jack is the most obvious answer, in the sense of being the last candidate to be recruited by MIB and the last one still with him, as noted above by Curious1000.

Claire was the last recruit Desmond brought into play in LA X, and she simultaneously switched sides on the island in response to Kate's sincerity.

Sayid is more of a long shot, but he also appeared to switch sides.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

i think sayid did kill desmond and now jacob is occupying desmond's body.

i think the "parallel world" is MIB's promise to the people he made deals with - ben, sayid, locke all seem to be getting what they wanted (love, redemption). However, now that jacob can move around via desmond, he is going back to undo what MIB did. did anyone catch what locke said in the ambo to ben - "I WAS engaged to Helen". In the parallel world, he was. But if hitting him undid MIB's plan, maybe that world is becoming unraveled? that's why sayid was arrested. any maybe why sun recognizes locke now? not quite sure how it all works out but i think that by hitting locke and visiting claire and others jacob/desmond is undoing what MIB did.

Posted by: KLW2 | April 21, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

So... what is the point of sideways world? And where is this half of the story going? Is it simply to show us what would have happened to these people without Jacob's influence? Is it at all possible that this reality will somehow cease to exist? I don't think so, in part because pretty much everybody seems better off in this reality. Why show us all this, only to somehow undo it?

Maybe, just maybe, they're showing us the final conclusion--a very extended conclusion--of the ongoing events on the island. Not exactly an alternate reality, but a post-LOST reality, what WILL happen, but the other events involving MIB and Jacob need to play out first. The real question is, how do we get from point A to point B, from alternate reality 1, where the plane crashed on the island and so many people suffered and died, and alternate reality 2, where the plane never crashed and life is better for almost everybody? That's the big question that's hanging out there.

Finally, when are they going to show us flash-sideways Juliet or Richard? These major characters have been conspicuously absent and both are bound to be big reveals.

Posted by: MrDarwin | April 21, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

NotForYou1, I also cringed as the Kwons ran to each other expecting to hear a giant bugzapper sound. Glad it didn't happen!

cgndc, you are sharp! That is right about Flocke and Christian, or else the writers really goofed.

As far as not knowing if Sayid did the deed or not, I think he definitely had lying eyes. He did not do it (however last weeks promo sure made it look as if he did).

Posted by: hodie | April 21, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I will stop watching the show if Desmond is dead.

John didn't say "I was engaged to Helen"--he said "she's the woman I was going to marry" meaning he thinks he's dying.

Posted by: chunche | April 21, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

What would a world be like without Hot Pockets?

Posted by: chunche | April 21, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

> But if Jacob was the original body snatcher, what is he there for?

Actually it was adp21 who raised the idea about Jacob stealing MIB's body. I haven't really absorbed what he or she meant by it, other than what MIB himself said to Jacob.

My comment about Locke bleeding through was a "me too" in response to PQSully, although a number of us have been anticipating that twist for weeks now.

But I do believe it will happen -- somehow, LA X Locke, still pure of heart and faith, will bleed into MIB's island consciousness long enough to confuse him at a pivotal moment.

Kind of like Gollum's pre-monster memories delaying his treacherous hand at the crucial moment in LOTR. In the denouement, Hurley will note the LOTR connection out loud -- speaking, as usually, for the fan base -- while Sawyer claims not to know who the hell Gollum was.

That is, any of them are still alive at that point.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

y1776 said, "Is the LAPD is just amazingly fast in this reality?"

YES! I can't believe how so many things happen in such a short timeline. All that went on with Ben and Locke in LA X went by in 2 days? Yet they met Sun/Jin at the hospital after Locke was run down. Too much went on in Sawyer's and Hurley's lives too for the time given it. The sideways timeline justs covers too much for the time frame to be realistic in my opinion. The timeline on lostpedia can't follow it either because things we've seen before don't sync up in this episode. I have to assume that the writers have mapped this out, but right now it seems impossible.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 21, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

@brettlc - nice catch, I think you are right with the Chesley reference.

@chunch - seriously, where the hell is Vincent?

Not sure what to make of Locke's beatific smile on the gurney, after Sun freaked. If his island memories are bleeding through after his trauma/near death experience, he doesn't seem upset by them.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | April 21, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I think the idea is that MIB is trapped on the Island, but the Island environment has always included its immediate environs such as the ocean right around it and Hydra Island. So I don't think MIB would have had a problem getting to the freighter.

MRDarwin, Juliet's not on the show anymore and she's not likely to have much remaining importance to the main plot. She could make a cameo (maybe as David's mother, as some suspect?) but I don't think we'll see much of her in the FST. As for Richard, he probably doesn't have a 2004 FST existence. He was born 150 years ago and if the Island is at the bottom of the sea in the FST, he's probably not running around L.A. like Jack and Ben are.

Posted by: UniqueID | April 21, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Re: sonic fence, Zoe mumbled something about turning it off right before Sun and Jin ran to each other.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | April 21, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Chesley? But isn't the current island time 2007? (i.e., well pre-Chesley-on-the-Hudson?) Or am I just all messed up at this point?

Also, re the sonic fence, Dirty Liz Lemon had just called out urgently to her crew to turn it off. Sun and Jin may or may not have noticed that, but no one would have needed to warn them.

Posted by: Janine1 | April 21, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Very interesting thought about Sawyer, Kate, the apple, and Adam and Eve. Could be just an acting bit, though. According to IMBD, in 2009's Star Trek Chris Pine (Kirk) nonchalantly eats an apple during the Kobayashi Maru test because he was told that lead actors seem cocky eating apples. (Shatner had done the same thing in Wrath of Khan.) If any word described Sawyer in that scene, it's cocky.

Posted by: jhusson1 | April 21, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

brettlc wrote:

BTW, I think the cheeky name that Sawyer used to refer to Lapidus on the boat was "Chesley" (as in Chesley Sullenberger), not chesty...

*******************************

Sawyer, et al, haven't experienced 2008 (2009?) yet, so Chesly Sullenberger hasn't landed in the Hudson. I'd have to say Chesty.

On that note, however, Annakin should be known to Sawyer. Sure, he was on the island in 1977, but he was also *off* the island in 1999, when The Phantom Menace (Episode 1) was released. Sawyer's a pop-culture catalog of references; the biggest thing that happened in 1999 would not have flown under his radar.

Posted by: SamFelis | April 21, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

MIB can't get to Hydra Island without a boat, so he couldn't have got to the freighter on his own. He could have gone over on the helicopter, or the zodiac, but if he was on the freighter when it exploded, I don't know how he would have gotten back to the Island.

Posted by: Ghak | April 21, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

And how would Sawyer know about Chesley Sullenberger anyway? Whatever the current time is, he hasn't been in the "real" world since 2004.

Posted by: Janine1 | April 21, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

"Not sure what to make of Locke's beatific smile on the gurney, after Sun freaked. If his island memories are bleeding through after his trauma/near death experience, he doesn't seem upset by them." Posted by: PortlandMaine

I noticed that as well. What if MIB in Island world is bleeding into Locke in LAX world? Not vice versa.

Posted by: Emcdoj | April 21, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

But SamFelis, does Sawyer strike you as a StarWars fan? Unless you are a fan, you probably don't know Darth Vater's real name.

Posted by: hodie | April 21, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Was I the only person screaming(in my head only, I held back) "SONIC FENCE! SONIC FENCE!" at Sun and Jin? I mean, nobody there even bothered to try to warn them. It threw me way off.

Posted by: NotForYou1
=============
I was yelling it too. I figured it would be armed, they would both run into it and get zapped and it would be the end of Jin and Sun.

Posted by: twinbrook | April 21, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Also, when Locke was face down at the hospital, didn't he also have the same creepy smile. What if this is all playing into MIB's plan to escape the island and be resurrected in LAX time? If that is the case, then I think Jack will take steps to make sure Locke doesn't survive the operation.

Posted by: Emcdoj | April 21, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I also expected the Kwons to get zapped by the fence. I thought that might be a good thing to keep them apart just a little longer--so close and yet so far, but I was also hoping that they wouldn't keep them apart any longer. I was touched by the reunion but felt it was rushed considering the significance of it.

But notice that Sun got what she came back for (Jin), Kate got what she came back for (Claire-so far), and Jack is still searching for his--but is focusing now on the real reson he came back--to stop MIB. Hurley and Sayyid (due to Jacob) did NOT come back to the island willingly, so they have just let Jacob and MIB manipulate them.

I was wondering about next time and who was going to stop Widmore's goons from killing off our main characters--could it be Richard/Ben/Miles? They were on their way over. Or maybe Desmond found a way to walk on water and ran over.
Of course Widmore may change his mind because he's now thought of a way to use them to his advantage.

It looked to me like in the preview that Flocke is killing a guy with a gun in front of the airplane. I wonder if that is a flashback to him killing off the other airplane passengers, or him coming over to the island and killing Widmore's men.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 21, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Vincent is with Walt in Austrailia in LA X world or (since everyone/everything seems to have moved to LA), he's in LA with Walt and Michael.

Walt can't make an appearance in LA X 2004 because the actor has grown too old that plays him. it would be difficult to make him look like the Walt of 2004. Michael and Vincent could make an appearance in LA X as Michael explains how life is so much better for Walt. The actor that has played Juliet has moved on to another show, so her future appearances should be brief.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 21, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

What if the shell exploding at the end actually killed Jack, a la Claire? Possessed, MIB-controlled, zombie candidate anyone?

Posted by: richarde1 | April 21, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

@emcdoj: ooh, there's a thought for you...what if Desmond knows that the characters will all at some point merge into sideways world and assume the new sideways lives...and, through that, FLocke could someone get off the island through that alone...THAT would be a VERY good reason for him to try to bump Locke off in L.A.

Posted by: PerfectlyCromulent64 | April 21, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Jen's comments:
"But Desmond, at this point, knows all. The electromagnetic infusion gave him knowledge not only of both timelines, but seemingly knowledge of everything. As we said last week (I think?), he seems to have become the new Jacob, all-knowing and controlling everyone's destinies."

Technically speaking, Jacob didn't control everyone's destinies. In fact, he was the complete opposite which is what kind of ticked off Hurley at the lighthouse. Jacob's MO was a hands-off approach, if anything, and just hoping that people would make the right choices. There's no control in that. He did poke and prod people (eg, his touching the candidates) but he didn't control anyone. Unlike MIB.

As for the sonic fence being on or off...isn't this a moot point since both Sun and Jin are candidates and they can't be killed, right?

Another minor point but was anyone else disappointed by the "ancient" well? I still had Juliet's plunge front and center in my mind when MIB threw Desmond down it, but it was disappointingly shallow. So no donkey wheel anymore?

Posted by: olivertray | April 21, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

This didn't seem to be the same well as the one with the donkey wheel. The donkey wheel well was next to the Orchid Dharma station, and I didn't see anything that looked like that scene when they panned back. So like the lighthouse, it's another thing built on the island we've not seen before. Or budget cuts caused them to leave out some of the props from before.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 21, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Also of note, Sun doesn't seem that scared of Flocke on the island, but freaks out on the gurney when she sees Locke in LA X? Maybe it was just all the trama of the memories coming back to her.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 21, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

OK, does anyone else think that Ben's relationship might be with a one Mr. Leslie Artz? I noticed a hint of playful flirting during the Mr. Linus episode. That would definitely be a relationship that no one saw coming.

Posted by: ntruscello | April 21, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

hodie wrote:

But SamFelis, does Sawyer strike you as a StarWars fan? Unless you are a fan, you probably don't know Darth Vater's real name.

****************************

He's been making Star War references since Season 1. For him not to know this piece of information strikes me as odd...or something that slipped quality control.

See http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars for all the references (well, maybe all the references).

Posted by: SamFelis | April 21, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

The LA X world and the island world are somehow connected to each other right now, because we see the mirror imaging of events. It would not take much to convince me that MIB has to be contained in both worlds, and that Desmond is the key in both. But Eloise is becoming more and more evil in my mind since she seems to have helped MIB (getting Locke's body back to th island).

Posted by: KevinAF | April 21, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I believe "Chesty" is a reference to the very famous Marine colonel in WWII Pacific, Chesty Puller, because Lapidus's uniform is so very military in appearance Chesty Puller is played by William Sadler in HBO's "The Pacific".

Posted by: wvcyndy | April 21, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

The profile Locke saw in the rocking chair in Jacob's cabin:

Someone in the 2:00 Q&A asked whether they would ever explain why the guy Locke saw in the rocking chair resembled neither Jacob nor MIB.

This already has been explained. They had Rob Kyker, the show's prop master, sit in for the shadowy image of Jacob. You can see what he looks like in real life below:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rob_Kyker

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I should have said: "They had Rob Kyker, the show's prop master, sit in for the shadowy image of (what we were led to believe was) Jacob."

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Didn't it seem that MIB was suspicious of Sayid's response when he asked where he'd been? Zombie Sayid would not have "needed a moment" after shooting an unarmed man; he would have just shot him and moved on. I think MIB was picking up on the fact that Sayid might have been lying, but wasn't sure.

Posted by: mat00 | April 21, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

OK, I think we have enough information after this episode to definitively say that "Jacob's cabin" in fact never was Jacob's cabin, it was MIB's cabin/prison.

It was MIB that said "help me," MIB as Christian Shepard that appeared to Locke, MIB that told Locke to move the island. Ilana and her crew were checking to see if he was still in jail when they stopped by. MIB may even have told Ben to build the runway, although Ben claims never to have seen him (thinking he was Jacob). But it seems plausible that, after helping resurrect the teenage Ben, MIB was the one giving Ben his instructions over the years, not Jacob. Perhaps it was MIB that told Ben to annihilate the Dharma Initiative. Although it's a bit of a puzzle why Richard wouldn't have picked up on the difference at some point, since Richard knew where the real Jacob was.

Posted by: charodon | April 21, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Also, when Locke was face down at the hospital, didn't he also have the same creepy smile. What if this is all playing into MIB's plan to escape the island and be resurrected in LAX time? If that is the case, then I think Jack will take steps to make sure Locke doesn't survive the operation. Posted by: Emcdoj

what if Desmond knows that the characters will all at some point merge into sideways world and assume the new sideways lives...and, through that, FLocke could someone get off the island through that alone...THAT would be a VERY good reason for him to try to bump Locke off in L.A. Posted by: PerfectlyCromulent64

--This makes sense.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | April 21, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

"OK, I think we have enough information after this episode to definitively say that "Jacob's cabin" in fact never was Jacob's cabin, it was MIB's cabin/prison."

So that would introduce a whole new question, why did he become confined to the cabin when he didn't used to be (when Richard and the Black Rock came to the island, for instance).

Posted by: HardyW | April 21, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

"Didn't it seem that MIB was suspicious of Sayid's response when he asked where he'd been? Zombie Sayid would not have "needed a moment" after shooting an unarmed man; he would have just shot him and moved on. I think MIB was picking up on the fact that Sayid might have been lying, but wasn't sure."
Posted by: mat00

Could be that the bleeding between island and sideways world is both ways. Sayid could be being healed by his sideways self (if that makes any sense). Desmond seems to have become a single person with a presence in both realities. Our other Lostees may be merging themselves as well.

I'm liking the Desmond/Jacob connection people are discussing. I'm starting to think that Desmond is the Wallace of the list of candidates (Wallace is a Scottish name after all). Widmore may have created the new Jacob with his EM machine.

And lets not forget Juliet's words: "It worked". Jack's plan to set off the nuke must be what created sideways world. So the island is sunk in the 1977 sideways reality. The other reality is the island, which has to continue to exist because it has already existed past 1977 when the nuke went off (whatever happened happened). But that reality may not persist past 2007, when our Lostees went time tripping back to 1977 and destroyed the island. So the island reality is more or less a shadow that cannot last forever. That is why I think MIB wants off the island so badly. The only reality he is part of will end, and probably soon, eaten by the Langoliers!

Posted by: Fate1 | April 21, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

>>>"It was MIB that said "help me," MIB as Christian Shepard that appeared to Locke, MIB that told Locke to move the island. Ilana and her crew were checking to see if he was still in jail when they stopped by."

I agree except for Ilana checking to see if he was in jail. She knew he was out and that was why they were sent to the island, to protect the candidates from MIB.

>>>"MIB may even have told Ben to build the runway, although Ben claims never to have seen him (thinking he was Jacob)."

Yup, that sounds right. i think MIB is the only one speaking to Ben over the years. But others did not pick up on it, even Richard.

>>>"Perhaps it was MIB that told Ben to annihilate the Dharma Initiative."

I think that's a definite.

>>>"Although it's a bit of a puzzle why Richard wouldn't have picked up on the difference at some point, since Richard knew where the real Jacob was."
Posted by: charodon

I don't think Richard knew where Ben was going when he went to "see Jacob". I think someone trapped MIB in the cabin and Ben found the cabin and assumed it was Jacob, then kept the location a secret at MIB's request. I think we'll need to see a flashback about this because trapping MIB is likely how Widmore and our Lostees defeat MIB. He can't be killed in the normal sense, so he's like an ancient god, which could not be killed so they were imprisoned by other gods. The question is, who trapped MIB? Maybe Dogen's people in the temple and they kept the location secret. The other question is who broke the ask ring and let him out? Maybe Claire? One thing is for sure, there is a lot to be explained about this show and they only have 4 episodes left to do it, but as someone else said, 5 hours is a world of time to explain a plot, well 3 hours when you consider all the commercial time...

Posted by: Fate1 | April 21, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Why do you think they kill-joyed the Sun-Jin reunion?

It had to be deliberate. The sonic fence anxiety contaminated our anticipation, and Widmore’s reversal killed any lingering sense of warmth. Lapidus’ lame observation about Sun getting her voice back was probably just clumsy writing to make sure we didn’t miss what had happened.

Weird.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 21, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

I was sure Sun would see Jin, he wouldn't see her, she couldn't speak, there would be suspense, I'd be screaming "turn around Jin!!" Or something. Anti-climax is being kind. Rose and Bernard had a better reunion and they were separated for a few weeks.

Doc Jensen picked up on the fact that in the OR, Jack recognized Locke by seeing his face in a mirror -- interesting.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | April 21, 2010 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm wondering whether our Lostees are the same relative ages. Lets take Jin and Sun for example. Lets call the time the freighter blew up year 0. Sun is soon one of the Oceanic 6 and is off to Korea where she spends 3 years, then she returns and so has age a little over 3 years at our current time of the story.

Jin was on the freighter and made it back to shore but there was a flash and he ended up in the 1970s and got a job with Dharma. He was there when Jack and the rest showed up. He was there until the 1977 nuke and ended up in 2007 with Sun. The question is was Jin's time with Dharma the same as Sun's in Korea? Or, to put it another way, has time been conserved so all of our Lostees have aged the same number of years since they were split up? Maybe not an important point, but it is buggin' me.

As for Widmore turning on the Lostees, I don't think he's necessarily doing that. I think someone spotted MIB watching the beach (remember, Widmore has spotters keeping an eye on MIB, that's how he could fire the shells near MIB) and so they had to make it look like they were treating the Lostees as hostiles so they would not give away the agreement.

Widmore still needs Jin to decipher the map. He probably needs Lopedis to make sure he's not with MIB and thus cannot fly the plane. He probably does not need the rest but depriving MIB of people would make MIB weaker, so I expect he'll keep our Lostees and probably treat them better once they are out of sight of MIB. I wonder who will go after Desmond because I'm sure Widmore wants Desmond back.

Posted by: Fate1 | April 21, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

I also didn't get the sense that Widmore was turning on the Losties. Rather, he was putting on appearances, keeping them "safe" and blowing up the MIB camp. He has most of the candidates...so commence the battle.

Posted by: smd520 | April 21, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

the theory that MIB was trapped in the cabin is interesting (did the cabin have an ash circle around it? Didn't Hurley see Locke's face in the door when he first found the cabin?) but it has me asking -

is there an extended period of time on the show when Smokey was not terrorizing people on the island? If he was trapped in the cabin that would have to be the case.

Posted by: aes4 | April 22, 2010 6:38 AM | Report abuse

So I'm "Lost" as to why everyone was worried about the Pylons when Sun and Jin ran toward each other. Dirty Liz Lemon ordered them off on her radio, and they had an electrical shutting down noise and everything!

Posted by: Mia13 | April 22, 2010 8:12 AM | Report abuse

You were more observant than some of us, Mia. What my movie and TV-trained brain focussed on was the camera panning to a view of them running toward each other and meeting exactly at the pylon barrier. The pylons themselves looked the size of the Empire State Bld in my fevered imagination.

I thought, no, they couldn't do that. But it diverted my brain from savoring the reunion moment.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 22, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Well, I guess I did hold my breath a little - in case they were going for another tragedy.
Also -
The whole last few minutes of the show I was thinking - if Sawyer and the other candidates are on the water or on Hydra Island, and Jack jumps ship and swims ashore... is he not the last candidate on the Island? Wouldn't that make him "The One"?

Posted by: Mia13 | April 22, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Lots of great parallels in this episode to earlier ones. Jack jumping out of boat/Sawyer jumping out of helicpter. So if, in the end Jack ends up with Juliet that would be a nice structural symmetry. And if Kate is maintaining that she's innocent of murder Sawyer, as a cop (which he essentially was on the island) is in a position to help her. Jack doing surgery on Locke as he did earlier on Ben. Will he let Locke die on the table as he threatened to do Ben? I believe Ben was contaminated (or infected, or whatever) when he was healed from the gunshot wound, probably in the pool. Hence his bad decisions/choices, such as killing all the Dharma people and letting Alex be shot.

I also noted (or thought I did) blood on the side of Jack's neck in the same place as the cut he was looking at in the mirror in the LAX episode.

So what if the LAX timeline is not the original Oceanic flight landing as if nothing happened. What if, between now and the end of the season, Smocke wipes out Widmore and they do get on the plane, Smocke wipes out their island memories, and they land in LAX in a different time (with histories changed) or a place that looks like LAX where Smocke is able to "grant" their wishes.

But they still need to eliminate MIB/Smoke Monster,whether it's actual LAX or a fake LAX (Charlie's insistence that none of this is real).

(I'm looking for a way to explain to myself why Charlie, who died for everyone and should be redeemed in an alternate timeline, is still a self destructive drug addict--because he made no deal with Smocke? Nor did Desmond?

MIB is in Locke's body. Or he's latent/somehow needs Locke's body to survive in a vampirish way. Charlie helps Desmond recover his island memories. Desmond goes to work and, among other things tries to kill Locke with the car as a way of stopping/crippling Smokey. Should/will Jack let Locke die? Will he save him? Will Desmond tell him what to do, or help him find the answer (a la Jacob)?

One other nice touch--Kate didn't only save Claire by reaching out and bringing her on the boat. I think that's the action that redeems Kate as well--and gives her the possibility of a better ending (Sawyer helping her prove her innocence?).

I'm wondering if the end will be yet another landing at LAX but with Smokey back on the island bottled up, Jack or Desmond (or someone) back there guarding him, Claire and Aaron together with Kate's help, and Jacob or his replacement back in control--stability on the island and the outside world safe.

It would give the structure of this season some symmetry, but would probably take too much time to do well . . .

Posted by: rameau | April 22, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"Ilana and her crew were checking to see if he was still in jail when they stopped by" posted earlier

I don't believe MIB was in jail or confined. We saw the smoke monster from day one of Lost (was it the first or second episode?). MIB was running around the island as the smoke monster and appearing as dead people.

Jacob was absent from the first episodes, but that's not unusual for him. He made appearances off island from the seventies (to Kate and Sawyer) up to present time (Hurley and Sayyid). So he wasn't confined either (unless it was a short period). Ilana did say when they reached the cabin that Jacob had not been there for some time, but she did seem to expect to see him (and saw the egyptian statue tapestry indicating where she needed to go).

So who said "help me" in the cabin? I don't know, but we do know that Ben was being manipulated for some time by MIB. But MIB was also roaming the island as Smokie. Why did Ben believe it was Jacob? I don't know that either.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 22, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Still intrigued by an end shot of the series concept with Jack and MIB sitting next to each other on the beach, with MIB asking: "Do you know how much I want to kill you?" And Jack responding, "Yeah."

Posted by: HillRat | April 22, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Fate1 "I'm wondering whether our Lostees are the same relative ages."

Jin, Sawyer and co. arrived in Dharmaville in 1974, then they all left in 1977 due to the "incident". That would make them all relatively the same age (three years older)as the Oceanic six.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 22, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I do think that MIB can achieve his goal in LA X world as well, but Desmond is out to stop him, in part by getting the Lostees to remember the island and what happened/is happening/will happen.

I don't think Jack will kill Locke on the operating table, but unless Des knows that Locke can't be killed yet for some reason, I think Des was trying to kill Locke.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 22, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

So "The Candidate" will be revealed next episode. At this point, it looks like it will be Jack. (only one still on the main island whose name is not crossed off, and not a zombie). But Desmond seems to be in the running too, based on his actions in LA X. I think its great that we're so close to the end, and still the writers can take us in so many different directions.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 22, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

That so much is confusing at this late date is almost certainly a combination of two scenarios:

1. Great writing -- they actually knew where they were going all along and carefully laid the foundation over time. Part of the greatness is that they’ve built an internally consistent storyline that is nonetheless hard to anticipate fully until the very end.

2. The haphazard nature of script writing for long running TV shows. . In other words, a lot of stuff is confusing to us because it’s not internally consistent. They had the basic endgame in mind, but improvised madly on the many side stories and side mysteries in order to keep up the weekly intrigue. Some of these inconsistencies were addressed retroactively once people brought them to the writers’ attention. Others cannot be fixed and will never make sense to us.

You know it’s got to be a mix of the two. What will be interesting to me is how fans react to whatever mix they end up perceiving.

Writing a six-season show like this for broadcast TV is not like writing a self-contained miniseries for HBO. Every week you need new cliffhangers and new intrigue. It’s bound to go off track here and there.

I think I will be happy as long as whichever storylines they choose to resolve are resolved well.

Posted by: MeriJ | April 22, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

First thing that I thought of after F/Locke sent Sayid off to kill Desmond, watching Sayid set off with such a determiend striede, was that Sayid was p!ssed off to lose the Washingon Post Lost "Final Four" bracket contest to Desmond last year, and he was going to get a little payback!

Good episode. Fun to watch all the characters converge in both the Island and sideways LA worlds.

I don't think any of our characters are past redemption. I'm hoping that Claire and Sayid are coming back around to the light.

I don't think that F/Locke is controlling events as well as he thinks he is.

I'm also hoping that if Jack can save sideways Locke, maybe sideways Locke's good character will infect F/Locke back in the Island timeline. I really want a way to get the real Locke back, especially after F/Locke went on that rant about how Locke is a loser and a sucker. It makes me really angry to think about how F/Locke, in the guise of Christian Shepherd, was the one that told Locke he had to die to save the island, when really he just wanted Locke's body for his end game. I hope F/Locke gets and and gets it good.

Posted by: NW_Washington | April 22, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

"Another minor point but was anyone else disappointed by the "ancient" well? I still had Juliet's plunge front and center in my mind when MIB threw Desmond down it, but it was disappointingly shallow. So no donkey wheel anymore?" Posted by: olivertray

I had the same thought. MIB threw in a torch and implied that the well was pretty deep. Yet when Sayid goes back and you see Des, it couldn't be more than 10-15 feet deep. It must have been a different well than Juliet was in.

Posted by: Emcdoj | April 22, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

"The only reality he is part of will end, and probably soon, eaten by the Langoliers!" Posted by: Fate1 |

A great nod to Stephen King there Fate1.

Posted by: Emcdoj | April 22, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"The question is was Jin's time with Dharma the same as Sun's in Korea? Or, to put it another way, has time been conserved so all of our Lostees have aged the same number of years since they were split up? Maybe not an important point, but it is buggin' me." Posted by Fate1

I'm pretty sure they were in the 70s for three years. I recall Sawyer mentioning three years at some point.

"intrigued by an end shot of the series concept with Jack and MIB sitting next to each other on the beach, with MIB asking: "Do you know how much I want to kill you?" And Jack responding, "Yeah."
Posted by: HillRat

I too think this is the way the show will end. And even if we've guessed the ending, it will still be a dramatic and fitting ending to the story.

Posted by: Emcdoj | April 22, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"intrigued by an end shot of the series concept with Jack and MIB sitting next to each other on the beach, with MIB asking: "Do you know how much I want to kill you?" And Jack responding, "Yeah."
Posted by: HillRat

And then a Carnival Cruise ship turns and heads toward the island, instead of a slave ship as before, with Jimmy Buffet music playing loudly and people on deck drunk and dancing and screaming at the top of their lungs: "I don't know where I'ma gonna go when the volcano blow". Jack and Locke turn to each other and drive daggers into each other's chest, each with a smile knowing they have just saved themselves a fate worse than death. Poor Richard, the only one left on the island since he is immortal and cannot leave, cries knowing he cannot die too. The scene ends with a shot of Richard, screaming angrily into the sky as the camera backs away and the music gets louder, reminding us of when Kirk cursed Khan. But instead of the LOST logo we see a new logo:
FOUND - A new series on ABC starting this fall! The lively fun and adventures the passengers and crew have as they hunt wild boar, play with 1960 era computers and could really care less what was on the island before them. And Richard, years later, ends up parking cars at a new restaurant, forever and ever, like Marvin the paranoid android. The end.

Posted by: Fate1 | April 22, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

the time-consistancy issue was brought up with me and some friends as well. it was definitely heavily implied that the time apart was equivilant. 3 years from 74-77 with dharma, and 3 years for the O6 off the island.

the 'ancient well' discussion should be pretty clear, i think. juliet never fell into a "well" per say. she fell down the hole that dharma was drilling at the swan site. physically similar to a well, sure, but not a well in the sense of the ones that desmond and locke fell down into. they are all definitely 3 seperate locations (from what i can tell).

lastly, ever since i saw the langoliers made for TV miniseries a few years back (and oh, how horrible that was- the movie not the story), lost has always seemed SO similar. that and the Stand.

can't beleive we have to wait 2 weeks!

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 23, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I was always under the impression that it was three years for the Dharma folks and three years for the Oceanic 6.

And, I agree with Jere --- Juliet fell down the hole that Dharma was drilling, not an ancient well...

Posted by: smynola06 | April 23, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I know most of you don't recognize my name, I only have time to read this post while I'm at work and it wasn't up until a few weeks ago that I got access to actual sign in and post (internet restrictions). But, i just wanted to say that I've been reading this blog since day 1. and just wanted to say that this forum has been a major part of my enjoyment of the show, and will be sad to see it end. i've especially enjoyed reading posts by the veterans (i almost feel like even tho none of you know i've been reading your posts for years!)..

going strictly off of memory (so forgive me if they're not right) but just wanted to say thanks to: kevinAf, ghak, pqsully, bevjims (where is bevjims this year?), a68comeback, fate1, uniqueID, MeriJ, symnola06, emcdoj, camis, and i'm sure there's others i'm forgetting. and obviously Jen and Liz!

you guys/gals have helped me understand a ton (and yes i may have passed off some of your theories as my own to my friends over the years....haha j/k).

so i'm not sure if anyone cares, but i just wanted to say thanks as we're winding down on the last few episodes!

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 23, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I'll miss this blog too! Although, I don't think I should be included in that list considering this is the first season I've ever participated. Had I known about the blog beforehand, I totally would have been here since day 1.

Glad to see that you've finally been able to log in and contribute. And I'm also glad so many people participate here because it definitely makes watching Lost more enjoyable.

Posted by: smynola06 | April 23, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

@symnola: weird, i thought i recognized your name from before.

then again i have a hard enough time remembering what i read 5 hours ago, let alone 3 years ago.

vet or newcomer - everyone involved in this forum are class acts and great to read, agree, disagree, anazlyze... etc

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 23, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Jere1570:

I imagine we all feel the same way. But it's very nice to hear someone say it out loud.

Thanks!

Posted by: MeriJ | April 23, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

intrigued by an end shot of the series concept with Jack and MIB sitting next to each other on the beach, with MIB asking: "Do you know how much I want to kill you?" And Jack responding, "Yeah."
Posted by: HillRat

Except I'm kind of hoping for the LA X world to win out, where the island is at the bottom of the ocean. So unless they're weraing scuba gear...

Posted by: KevinAF | April 23, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

i'm not sure which of the 2 potential endings (if either) that are being widely talked about i'd prefer... but from what we know i think KevinAF's preference is more likely. as jacob says, it only ENDS once. and obvioulsy i think the title of the finale being "THE END" has a lot deeper meaning then just the end of the series. i think its the end, end of the island/MIB debacle.

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 23, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

How do you know the title of the finale?

Posted by: MeriJ | April 23, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Never mind! I should have researched before asking: Official Lost Podcast.

Funny that Lostpedia doesn't list the title on their Season Six page...

Posted by: MeriJ | April 23, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

i am VERY sorry that i wrote that. i didn't stop to think that saying that is technically a spoiler and apologize if that bothered anyone. i actually didn't have to look far for it (didn't even really mean to find out).. but regular Wikipedia "Lost Season 6" has had all the episode titles for quite awhile now.

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 23, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I would think Official Lost Podcasts fit in a similar category with the weekly broadcast previews - that is, not spoilers, per se.

It would be pretty unreasonable at this stage of the game to expect people not to discuss what's in the previews.

Now if that title had been "It Was All Just A Stupid Dream," your ass would definitely be grass!

-insert wicked grin here-

Posted by: MeriJ | April 23, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Hahaha, Touche Meri! :)

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 23, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm still wondering who the "last recruit" is and whether it refers to someone on the island or in sideways world. Based on Liz, Jen and the responses its Jack, but I don't see how he is a "recruit" unless it refers to MIB telling Jack that he is with MIB now. But I'm leaning toward his son, David.

David is at the hospital where the Lostees are all gathering thanks to Desmond. He is mature for his age. And Lost has always had this parent/child thing going since day 1. I think David, whose name is also Shepard, may be the candidate, and I'm guessing he also must exist in the Island timeline, somewhere. Maybe a child Jack never knew he had (with Juliet's sister?), and will end up on the island in the next episode. I know its probably a longshot but there was a sign at the entrance to the piano recital saying "Welcome all Candidates".

Posted by: Fate1 | April 24, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

That's a very plausible, Fate. I do remember that candidate sign.

"The Last Recruit"

Posted by: MeriJ | April 24, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Geeze Fate. That seems like quite a stretch. However, what is the purpose for David being at the hospital where, apparently, everything is going to go down unless he is there for a reason. Maybe even your reason : - ) But I still think it's going to be Jack. I've seen that an upcoming episode is entitled "Across the Sea" and it involves Jacob and Jack. Perhaps they can be discussing David but I doubt it. I can't imagine Jack allowing his son to become "the candidate." Anyway, I am very hopeful that we will finally learn the entire backstory of Jacob in that episode. I'm speculating that David is at the hospital because Juliet will come and pick him up when Jack doesn't bring him home because he is tied up with Locke's surgery (death?). Then we'll learn Juliet is Jack't ex in LAX world. Later on the same show, we'll see her having coffee with someone at the table next to Des and Penny.

Posted by: dojemc | April 24, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

dojemc,
I'm not married to the idea that David is the candidate, but I have to wonder just what the point of David is? If he is simply Jack's son, why is he such a prominent character now and as you are wondering, why is he at the hospital which is becoming the focal point of ... something big? And I'm also not losing sight of the significance of the name David, as in David and Goliath, the boy who slew a giant.

And I'm not so sure about the idea that Jack is not married to Juliet but instead to her sister, and Jack's son was Juliet's nephew, but he would only be about 3 years old now in island time.

Anyway, I think Juliet and Sawyer will end up together. I think all the love stories will end up happening in the end:
Des/Penny
Sawyer/Juliet
Hugo/Libby

Oh, and I expect a lot of bloodshed soon between MIB and Widmore on the island. There are many red shirts lined up on both sides of this battle on the island and very few in sideways time.

Posted by: Fate1 | April 25, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Why has no one observed that, with the SONIC FENCE down, Widmore et al are vulnerable to being "smoked"?

Posted by: qoph | April 25, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Why has no one observed that, with the SONIC FENCE down, Widmore et al are vulnerable to being "smoked"?
Posted by: qoph

Widmore is watching MIB, which he proved by firing a few shells near him, just to let him know. I don't think the sonic fence would have remained down if they knew MIB was nearby.

Posted by: Fate1 | April 25, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Fate, I think you could be right about Juliet and Sawyer. I'm just trying to figure out how that is going to happen in three shows and the finale. Sawyer is still with Kate and they seem to be into each other. My fear is that Ben ends up with Juliet. Even in LAX world, that would be creepy.

Good thought about David vs. Goliath. Maybe David rushes into the operating room and offs Locke : - )

Speaking of bloodshed, do we know what happened to Sayid when Widmore blasted the beach? I'm assuming he's ok but we didn't see him after the blast did we. Or was he still getting his head together and wandering in the jungle after visiting Des at the well?

And how is Widmore watching MIB? Could they simply see them from the smaller island or is there a mole we don't know about giving grid coordinants?

Posted by: dojemc | April 25, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

I can't remember, did David go with Jack to the hospital?

Posted by: smynola06 | April 26, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Fate1 | April 25, 2010 4:42 PM |

Widmore is watching MIB, which he proved by firing a few shells near him, just to let him know. I don't think the sonic fence would have remained down if they knew MIB was nearby.

What, exactly, does nearby mean to MIB? As the episode closes, the fence is still down. I see Smokey whooshing over the water and taking out the whole damned bunch of Whidmore's guards.

Posted by: qoph | April 26, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Smokey can't whoosh over water. Remember, Flocke told Sawyer this, to which he responded "because THAT would be ridiculous."

Posted by: smynola06 | April 26, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Fate1 posted "Oh, and I expect a lot of bloodshed soon between MIB and Widmore on the island. There are many red shirts lined up on both sides of this battle on the island and very few in sideways time."

Yes, but it's already started. The shelling of MIB's position probably killed many of the Others(red shirts) that were with him. We saw a few of them fly up into the air. It seems whenever there's an attack, the "red shirts" die in vast numbers and yet we never see all their dead bodies (a la flaming arrow attack). So it will be interesting to see if a significant number are still alive.


Posted by: KevinAF | April 26, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"I can't remember, did David go with Jack to the hospital?" Posted by: smynola06 |

Yes, David is at the hospital and went there with Jack.

Posted by: Emcdoj | April 26, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

"It seems whenever there's an attack, the "red shirts" die in vast numbers and yet we never see all their dead bodies (a la flaming arrow attack). So it will be interesting to see if a significant number are still alive."
Posted by: KevinAF

If there are any left you'll know there's more bloodshed to come. I always felt sorry for the poor red shirted souls who beamed down with Captain Kirk. They never got mentioned at the end of the show, except for the Halloween episode, when red shirted "Jackson" got killed early on, and later when McCoy(?) remarks that it was as though nothing happened down on the planet, Kirk remarked, "No, Jackson's dead", the first time a red shirt was remembered by the star of the show. Gutsy!

Posted by: Fate1 | April 26, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

dojemc wrote: "Fate, I think you could be right about Juliet and Sawyer. I'm just trying to figure out how that is going to happen in three shows and the finale. Sawyer is still with Kate and they seem to be into each other. My fear is that Ben ends up with Juliet. Even in LAX world, that would be creepy."

I think Ben will find love, where I don't know, maybe someone a long time ago, like that little girl he met on the island we all thought was Charlotte. But I don't see Sawyer being into Kate. I think Sawyer is over her for good. Sawyer has changed his selfish ways somewhat. Kate has not though her caring for Claire might be a breakthrough, but in sideways world she is still the old selfish Kate, and I don't think Sawyer in sideways world will be that into her either. Juliet will appear at some point, as will Penny.

dojemc wrote: "And how is Widmore watching MIB? Could they simply see them from the smaller island or is there a mole we don't know about giving grid coordinants?"

I assume there are Widmore people all over the place, tracking/following MIB and radioing back his position. The Others use to be very good at this. Remember when Tom confronted Jack and a few other Lostees and said they had to stay on their side of the island, and when Jack tried to force the issue Tom signaled and torches lit up all around our Lostees? Widmore was an Other as I'm guessing most of Widmore's people are, which maybe some Dharma thrown in. And I really like the idea of a mole. Sawyer?

Speaking of Dharma, there is a lot of 'splainin that needs to be done about them. I wonder if other Dharma people, besides Chang, will be seen in sideways world. And as others have noted, 5 hours is a lot of time to explain everything and bring this whole thing to a close. I'm still waiting for Hugo to read the numbers on the transmitter back in the 1970's, somehow... Lots to do so lets get on with it!

Posted by: Fate1 | April 26, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Hugo already read and recorded the numbers while he was there in the 1970s but they haven't shown us yet when exactly and why exactly he did it.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 27, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

KevinAF- was thinking the same exact thing. LOST has a way of not showing timelines completely out of chronilogical order. like the episode where ben was on his back in the sahara... we have no idea how he got there until many episodes later. i hope they do show that because, to me, and to many, it is clearly hurley reading those numbers!!!

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 27, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

correction, lost HAS a way of showing the timelines out of chronilogical order. i think everyone knew what i meant.

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 27, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I think that the answer to who/what is really behind Dharma will be left to the finale. It seems like one of the biggest unanswered questions to me, along with who was really directing/leading the Others when they decided to kill the Dharma people. It seems like a MIB thing to do, not a Jacob thing.

I'm not sure Jacob ever told anyone to kill another person. The Others killed the US Army guys in 1954, but that may have been in self-defense (they wanted to set off a nuke), it was never clear what exactly happened. The Others and Dharma fought in the 1970s but that might have been misunderstanding or orchestrated by MIB. Widmore told Ben to kill the French lady (supposedly by order of Jacob), but Ben called him out on that. So Jacob seems to stay away from ordering killings, as long as Ben was really getting his orders from MIB, from the purge on to the time Ben killed Jacob.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 27, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

From my perspective, it's essential that we learn why Ben changed his mind and killed Locke moments after saving his life, given how important that killing was to MIB's grand plan, reliant on Locke dying. As I recall, the murder happened right after Locke referred to Eloise Hawking, but I can't come up with a good theory myself.

Posted by: ravchanashor | April 27, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

ravchanashor- Ben needed Locke to find out how Widmore was planning on returning to the island, since Locke was working for Widmore. Once Locke told him about Eloise Hawking, Ben didn't need Locke anymore.

He used Locke's death to help convince members of the Oceanic 6 to return, but I doubt he thought through all that before. He also hated Locke for taking over the leadership role, and saw him more as competition once he returned to the island.

Posted by: KevinAF | April 28, 2010 8:49 AM | Report abuse

My money on final LAX pairings is:

Ben + Rousseau (completes his redemption arc, reunites him with Alex as parent figure)

Sawyer + Juliet (Jack's ex)

Hurley + Libby (still think she is way old for him), Des + Penny as others have noted

Jack - alone

Kate - alone

Posted by: PortlandMaine | April 28, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Pairings:

Ben and Tom Friendly (he's got to come back/out)

Jack and Ana Lucia

Ford and Juliet

Hurley and Libby

Des and Penny

Daniel and Charlotte

Kate- life in prison

Locke and Helen

Posted by: KevinAF | April 28, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

good call, KevinAF... WHERE IS TOM FRIENDLY? i jumped over to wikipedia and found-- the guy was in 20 episodes total. that's more than double than ethan, jacob, mib, mikhail, omar, keamy, etc... i know he's in that new ABC show, but it would feel incomplete if we didn't see him again somehow.

Posted by: Jere1570 | April 28, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't last night's show a great one. Oh, never mind. Just wishful thinking.

More seriously, I like the Ben and Tom Friendly guess. Hopefully Tom will be wearing his hillbilly beard. I've read somewhere that Ben does end up with someone. This would be a wild finish for our evil hero.

I think that we may see Rousseau, as Portland suggests, as well. She certainly is a major-minor player who we haven't seen in sideways world.

Posted by: dojemc | April 28, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking Locke and Helen are not going to make it...between getting nearly murdered by Des and affecting a sinister smirk, he verbally put her in the past.

Still waiting for Vincent to trot across the screen in LAX.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | April 28, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

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