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Posted at 10:37 AM ET, 05/ 5/2010

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: 'The Candidate'

By Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly
Lost

In which Jen and Liz contemplate the sadness of losing beloved characters, the age old battle between good vs. evil and the yet-to-come final 4.5 hours of "Lost." Read along, then join them at 2 p.m. ET for the "Lost" Hour live chat. In the meantime, visit "Lost" Central to brush up on your island back story.


Ladies and gentlemen, our candidates: Dr. Jack Shephard (Matthew Fox, left) and John Locke/MIB (Terry O'Quinn). (ABC)

Liz: "What makes you think letting go is easy?"

Jack's words to John at the end of tonight's episode are resonating with me because, like the rest of the "Lost"-watching nation, I'm in shock. We lost three main characters: Jin and Sun and Sayid. I literally have no words. You hinted in yesterday's "Lost" 5 post that we were going to lose a major character, but I don't think any of us expected tragedy of this magnitude.

On the positive side: I now know it is possible to simultaneously watch "Lost," take notes and cry like a baby.

On the analytical side: I think there can be no more ambiguity about the fact that MIB is pure evil. There is no gray area. There is no "maybe he's got some good in him and Jacob's got some bad." Nope, not buying it. MIB had the Losties (except Sawyer) and us utterly fooled. Wouldn't you agree?

Jen: He's definitely evil. How do I know? LindeCuse told Jeff Jensen so in a piece posted -- apparently as soon as tonight's episode ended -- to EW.com.

"There is no ambiguity," says Cuse. "He is evil and he has to be stopped."

Much more analysis after the jump...

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Liz: Hmm, I hate to say "I told you so." So I'll just let it remain implied.

Jen: That line about letting go also resonates with us, I think, because we're all trying to let go of this show. And it's not easy, especially when we have to watch two characters we love -- who just reconnected, for heaven's sake -- drown to the tear-eliciting sounds of Michael Giacchino's score.

Liz: By the way, that Daniel Dae Kim interview I did last week is really on my mind. When I asked if he and Sun ultimately have a happy ending on the show, he replied, "It depends on your definition of happiness." Well, Mr. Kim, I can confidently state that the death of two beloved characters courtesy of some "Titanic" send-up -- characters who had just found each other after a long separation -- is definitely not my idea of happiness. In fact, it had me crying uncontrollably. Though, I do have one critique: Wouldn't Sun have at least once said, "Jin, you have to live. Ji-Yeon needs a parent"?

Jen: I totally had the same thought. Clearly our maternal instincts kicking in there. I think that's what Sun was trying to tell him when she kept insisting that he leave. But it was clear he wouldn't do it. Wherever Sun goes, Jin goes. And -- depending on how clearly she was thinking all this through, considering that she was drowning -- Sun probably knew Jin would never be able to live with himself if he just left her there.

Pretty heartbreaking parallel there to Charlie's death, which also took place under water and to that same piece of Giacchino music ("Life and Death"). And yes, I know that music is used a lot on the show, I'm just saying.

Liz: Sure, that music is used a lot, but still just as poignant. And, at this point, I think I've got some kind of Pavlovian response going: that music plays, cue my tear ducts.

Jen: It was definitely a powerful scene, although I still think Charlie's death was more elegantly handled and more wrenching, for a couple reasons. We were prepared through all of season three for Charlie to potentially die, but we were still holding out hope -- right up until Mikhail showed up with a hand grenade -- that he would somehow beat fate. Also, when Charlie died, it felt more final. In this case, we at least know Sun and Jin are still alive in our alt-narrative -- in fact, we saw Jin at the hospital, carrying flowers to Sun, right after their underwater demise -- so we can take some solace in that.

Liz: I dunno. I was pretty much inconsolable last night during the Jin/Sun death scene. Maybe it's the pregnancy hormones, but I don't remember experiencing the same level of heartbreak when Charlie died. Don't get me wrong, it was way tragic. But something about last night's watery death just really struck a nerve with me. And, I'm guessing, others. But no use debating this since we'll unequivocally, scientifically find out whose death was more moving thanks to our ranking poll (above).

Oh, before we forget we should mention that the finale has been extended by 30 minutes, so everyone make sure to update your calendars and DVRs because on Sunday, May 23rd, the episode will run from 9 to 11:30 p.m.

Jen: So, with the pre-show, the actual show and the Kimmel farewell, that's about six hours of "Lost" on finale night. Dang.

Liz: So maybe we should talk about why Mr. Evil is killing off the very people he said he needed to leave the island with him?

Jen: Well, I don't think MIB ever really wanted them to leave the island. As Jack said, he was just manipulating them to get them all in one spot and eliminate them. Why? Because then Jacob has no replacement or proxy. But more importantly, by conning everyone, MIB thinks he has brought out the worst instincts in a lot of our Losties, particularly Sawyer. They lied. They ditched people they made promises to. By acting according to their darker motivations, they proved MIB's theory: Man (and woman) is inherently bad and can't do anything to change.

Liz: Hrm. I had a different reaction.

First, I'm not convinced that what MIB did -- conning our Losties onto the sub and then trying to get them to off each other by making the wrong move -- did bring out the worst in them. Sawyer was actually the only one who -- all along -- didn't trust MIB. And when he pulled those wires out of the C4, he was trusting his instincts in the hope that he would save everyone, not kill them. And I can hardly fault him for not trusting Jack. What happened the last time he put his trust in Jack? Juliet died. So the guy was understandably wary. As for the rest: Sayid sacrificed/redeemed himself to save his friends, Jin refused to leave Sun's side and Hurley saved Kate's life by getting her safely to shore. So I'd say the exact opposite: Man has a great capacity for good and can, in fact, change.

Jen: Oh, I agree that man can change and do good. I don't think MIB is right. In his mind -- if a smoke monster can have a mind -- I think he believes that what he is doing proves his point, even if it doesn't. Does that make more sense?

Liz: Yep, that does. But, maybe we should talk about MIB's motivation. He's been lying to our Losties since episode one of this season. He doesn't need them to leave the island. In fact, it seems he needs them dead to leave the island. But, as hinted again tonight, there are apparently rules and he wasn't allowed to kill them himself. If nothing else, next week's Allison Janney-assisted mythology episode had better at least make those rules clear and let us know who it was who made those rules in the first place.

Jen: I have a feeling it will. **SPOILER AHEAD** We know that none of our core cast members are in it, and based on the preview shown tonight, it seems like there will be a focus on MIB and Jacob. I'm not sure how I feel about focusing on those two at this stage, but hopefully it will explain a few things. **END SPOILER** Maybe we should turn our attention to Jack and Locke.

Liz: Yep, on island and in sideways world both of them kept coming back to the phrase "trust me" tonight. Yet that trust wasn't really given in either story line, was it?

Jen: No, it wasn't. But before we even get into that, I just want to say, as we've said many times before, that Terry O'Quinn is spectacular. I loved every scene he and Matthew Fox were in tonight. Both of them were so moving, but especially when Locke could barely get out the words about his dad never walking or talking again -- wow.

Liz: Agreed. I think Terry actually boosted Matthew Fox's acting chops -- took him up a notch, so to speak. Both deserve a big "bravo," especially considering that they managed to penetrate my Jin/Sun sadness long enough to empathize with them.

Jen: Yes, but to be fair Fox was pretty moving all by himself when he walked into the water at the end there, looked to the sky and started sobbing. He thought they would all be okay. And it didn't exactly work out that way. But anyway... the trust issue.

In season one, Jack would not, could not, trust John. Now, in sideways world, Locke isn't willing to trust Jack. I think that's more a matter of Locke not wanting to fully recover because he can't stand the guilt of being able to walk when his father cannot. Which is a remarkable switcheroo considering that, in the previous narrative, Anthony Cooper was responsible for Locke's injuries and could not have cared less.

Liz: Yes, one of many switcheroos courtesy of sideways world. But again, it's just a well-executed parallel with the earlier seasons when Jack was the doubter. And, you're right, Locke can't stand that guilt, but I think it still goes back to trust: He can't trust the fact that perhaps this man (Jack) can deliver him from his guilt by removing him from his wheelchair. But since we're in sideways world...

I kept waiting for the moment when Jack and Locke would realize they knew each other from the island. I thought we were there when Locke was mumbling "Push the button" and "I wish you had believed me" in his sleep. But no. Then I waited for that moment between Jack and Claire when they opened that music box. But again, no. Instead, all we got were a series of "Oh, you were on that flight, too?" moments.

Jen: Yeah, all the 815 moments felt a little forced to me, particularly the one between Jack and Claire. I guess they all have to realize they are bonded by that, but it doesn't feel nearly as organic as the reveals of their interconnectedness in previous seasons. Re: John and Jack -- at the very end, when Jack told Locke "I wish you believed me," an echo of the note Locke left for Jack after his death in season five, I thought Locke remembered for a second. He had that moment of recognition look on his face.

Re: the music box -- that was almost the same one as Rousseau's.

Liz: Was it? I wasn't sure. I thought Rousseau's had a ballerina in it. I didn't manage to catch what the song was. Did you?

Jen: Rousseau's did have a ballerina, you're right. But the outside of the box looked very much the same. I am trying to track down the song. It sounded familiar but I could not place it.

Liz: It did sound familiar, but thanks to this "Lost" message board we know it was playing "Catch A Falling Star" -- which should be familiar, because we've heard it before. It's the same song Claire had asked Aaron's potential adoptive parents to sing to him.

Jen: And the same song, I think, Kate did sing to him. Actually, it's been used multiple times.

Liz: The thing is -- are we to take the music box as a significant clue or file it away as an inside joke, like Jack's Apollo bar?

Jen: The Apollo bar I am more willing to chalk up to inside joke. But the music box, no. Christian left it for Claire and remember, we don't know where Christian's body even is right now. So maybe this is his way of trying to get his two kids to remember the island somehow.

On another note, I can't remember if we've talked about Jack's hospital before. The name, St. Sebastian's, seems significant.

Saint Sebastian was a martyr who converted people to Christianity. In other words, he taught them about faith. Interestingly, one of the women he saves is named Zoe. He also, according to the story, converted 16 prisoners to the faith.

Anyway, I think that's a clue -- as if we needed another one -- that Jack is the one capable of making people believe, ultimately. Or at least he's supposed to be.

Liz: And, as already mentioned, John utters similar words ("I wish you had believed in me") in his sleep -- echoing the suicide note he left for Jack. Perhaps in a way Jack is finally believing in John Locke. Just in a different world. A different way.

Jen: Well, on the island, he most certainly is. When he cold-cocked MIB and tried to chuck him in the water after MIB said Jack had been given wrong information about needing to stay on the island, Jack defiantly declared "John Locke told me." That's the biggest vote of confidence Jack ever gave the guy.

Liz: By the way, I can't believe we haven't mentioned Bernard. Or, as my husband yelled out, "Nard Dog!" His role in tonight's show was interesting ... he almost seemed to be some kind of guide, helping Jack to find Anthony Cooper.

Jen: It seemed odd, as Jack pointed out, that Bernard remembered Anthony Cooper so well. Maybe he would remember that Locke and his dad were in a plane crash. That's unusual enough to bear noticing. But why would he remember the name Anthony Cooper, and give it to Jack?

Liz: Well, he would if he was placed in sideways world to do just that. Perhaps he's realized his island past and is, in some small way, helping to push these people together. Because, honestly, I can't think of why else he'd be so quick to compromise his doctor/patient confidentiality agreement. I mean, hello -- "Oh, you were on that flight, too, stranger? Cool, in that case, let me open my files to you."

So, to change the subject: Why does Charles Widmore have a list with only four names on it? Sawyer, both Kwons and Reyes? I think we all knew Kate had been crossed off the candidate list, but wouldn't Widmore's list also include Jack?

Jen: Yes, I found that confusing. The thing is, what is Widmore basing his list on? The cave etchings? Some special notification from Jacob? Because maybe Jacob specifically left Jack off the list so that Widmore, or anyone else, would leave him alone, thinking wrongly that he's irrelevant. Perhaps Kate's not on the list for the same reason. Although it does bear mentioning that, as our "Lost" blogging friend JOpinionated points out, the final four who came to shore tonight -- Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer -- are the same four the Others captured at the end of the season two because their names were on a list.

Liz: I think Kate's not on the list because Evangeline Lilly is nothing but a brunette Katherine Heigl. At least based on the NY Mag Vulture interview in which she basically made it clear that she's, like, so over this show, above watching TV and doesn't give a fig for the story's mythology.

Jen: Well, wait a second. There was some debate in the comments on that post. I think you could read it as her being a bubblehead. Or you could read it as her being honest; I don't think she sounded like she was above TV necessarily. Whatever, not the time or place for a Lilly argument. Although, honestly, I am surprised I didn't hear you rejoicing when Kate got blasted in the shoulder.

Liz: Well, next time she gets shot in the shoulder, I'll call and screech into the phone. And that woman is apparently Rasputin, anyway.

Jen: When Jack brought Kate into the sub, and he and Sawyer both tended to her? Total flashback to season two, when Sawyer was similarly cared for by Kate and Jack.

Liz: Although I rejoiced all over again when they dropped her like a hot potato to tend to the bomb.

And since we're talking about the sub, it just occurred to me... where in the world is Frank Lapidus now? He was in the sub's main control room (or whatever that's called on a sub -- the bridge?) when it exploded. Did he make it out? Is his shirt intact?

Jen: He got knocked out by a flying steel door or something. But I wondered the same thing. I am thinking he's alive since no one mentioned his death, nor did we see a body. That means the only core people we lost tonight were Jin, Sun and Sayid, though all are still alive in the sideways flashes.

Liz: Three down on the island, though MIB isn't done and at the end of the episode he told Claire he was "off to finish what [he] started." I say we do the same and finish this at 2 p.m. in the chat.

Jen: Sounds like a plan. I'll bring some additional questions we didn't address here. Such as: What is the deal with Flocke's eye scar? It appears to have half disappeared and healed up ... just the effects of him being a corpse? And did anyone else think that when Jack woke up inside the boat on Hydra Island, he appeared to be in a coffin? Oh, and I'll also bring the C-4.

Liz: Not funny! Okay, maybe a little funny. See you there.

By Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly  | May 5, 2010; 10:37 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  | Tags:  Lost, Pop Culture, TV  
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Comments

I liked the recall of Bernard saying to Jack "I hope you find what you are looking for." Same as what Bernard and Rose tell the group on the island back in S5

Posted by: md268 | May 5, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the debatably happy ending for the Kwons, besides the factor of DDK not necessarily wanting to spill all the beans to you, we should also take into account that he could be talking about not just (dead) Island Sun and Jin, but Sideways S+J and maybe some post-timeline-merging S+J, assuming that hypothesis is correct.

I was irked all night by what I just thought was a sloppy job on Terry O'Quinn's fake scar, but perhaps you're onto somethin about that being deliberate on the show's part.

I'm betting Frank's dead but that indestructible shirt isn't scratched. What is he in shirts, like a 40? Hilarious that tiny Kate was trying (not very hard or smartly) to reach the keys, while the guy with the eight foot wingspan walked over and instead of taking her place there and just grabbing the keys, tried to kick his way through steel. No wonder these people keep ending up on the losing side.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 5, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

You guys didn't touch on the fact that Sayid all of a sudden seemed to have snapped out of his zombie state - he had clearly had a heart-to-heart with Desmond and, in his dying moments, did the right thing by not only telling Jack what to do, but trying to save everyone from death. What a good guy, my favorite character. RIP Sayid Jarrah.

Posted by: cf07 | May 5, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Oops, just reread the transcript from "The Incident" and neither Rose nor Bernard say "I hope you find what you are looking for." But this line seems like a call back to me. Anyone?

Posted by: md268 | May 5, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Re "I hope you find what you are looking for". Bless the interwebs! It's what Kate tells Jack when they run into each other in the jungle while he and Hurley are on the way to the Lighthouse in the episode "Lighthouse".

Posted by: md268 | May 5, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Locke has, actually made the connection w/island Flocke. He entire conversation with Jack at the end of the show, before he rolls out of the hospital, seemed fraught w/unsaid implications. As if Locke awoke from his island dreaming, realizing what had become of his body on the island, but unable to communicate that to the apparently unknowing Jack.

Posted by: melfoutz | May 5, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

refresh my memory: where are ben and richard?

Posted by: twinbrook | May 5, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Having rewatched the scene several times, I think Widmore said "Ford" not "four" when referring to the list.

Posted by: jcbc2 | May 5, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Ben and Richard, along with Miles, were last seen heading to the Dharma barracks/ village to get some explosives - part 2 of their efforts to blow up the plane.

Possibly the C4 that Fake Locke (presumably) found on the plane came from those guys - but we don't know that.

Posted by: lostinasia | May 5, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The thing with sideways world is getting confusing if one can be alive there, but dead on the island, which is why, against all evidence to the contrary, I'm not so sure we've seen the last of Sun and Jin on the island.

Island Sayid, however, is definitely gone.

Not sure why Widmore felt locking up the group was actually protecting them, or why the sonic barriers weren't around the dock or submarine either, you'd think the sonic fence would be positioned around anything MIBLocke could possibly use to escape the island, and that it would be almost impossible to deactivate it from outside the perimeter.

And in another sideways world (S.W.) reference, I think S.W. Ben will, somehow, influence Island Ben in a positive way, probably in that Island Ben will redeem himself by doing something incredibly heroic, along the lines of Sayid's sacrifice.

Posted by: kingcranky | May 5, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

jcbc2, I heard it as "Ford" too.

Posted by: Janine1 | May 5, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I thought the interview with EL showed her in a good light. She said she's ready to move on from something that has been all encompassing for many years. Makes sense to me. I found her pretty level-headed. Maybe that's only because she's a robo-babe.

Posted by: Handsome_John_Pruitt | May 5, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"So, to change the subject: Why does Charles Widmore have a list with only four names on it? Sawyer, both Kwons and Reyes? I think we all knew Kate had been crossed off the candidate list, but wouldn't Widmore's list also include Jack?"

i thought the list was jack, hurley, sawyer, and "kwon." the list doesn't specify which kwon, so technically, there are 4 names on the list, and jack is one of them.

Posted by: itsnotabear | May 5, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I had viewed Frank as definitely dead. His pause and recognition of something bad happening, followed by a hit of a steel door and the first of the gushing water- dead.

I wonder what is ahead for Claire. I commend Sawyer for going back for her, but understand that without signs of her moving and seeing MIB approach, your opportunity is gone. I just fear she'll continue backwards to bad Claire.

Do you think Sayid's (yet to be confirmed) choice to not kill Desmond is what turned him around? Like Jacob said, everyone has a choice.

It's still not clear why Whidmore caged the Losties? If he wanted to protect them from smokie, why not bring them inside?

Finally, Sayid spoke so quickly when explaining MIB's actions. Can you restate/analyze?

Thanks!

Posted by: VAjyd | May 5, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

kingcranky, there are numerous characters (Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Daniel, Charlotte, Ilana; and many more including actual Locke) who are definitely dead on the Island but alive in the sideways timeline. Jin and Sun and Sayid are now part of this ever-growing crowd...actually, maybe a resolution of the timeline split will be that soon there will be no one left who's alive in both timelines, and thus the two can merge without having a duplicative character.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 5, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Something else needs to be cleared up as well.

Namely, if Jack is taking Jakob's place on the island-as the counterweight to MIBLocke-does that mean Jack will assume Jakob's powers as well, and if so, then what is Des's role in all this, as an equal to Jakob/Jack?

Posted by: kingcranky | May 5, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Did Bernard tell Jack where to find Anthony Cooper because there must be a bazillion guys named Anthony Cooper in LA.

Posted by: CafeBeouf | May 5, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

I think Frank bit it. The door knocked him pretty hard. He's not a hugely important character, so I wouldn't expect a big deal to be made about his death.

Posted by: PostReader4 | May 5, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Although I, too, was devastated by Sun and Jin dying, I take some comfort in the fact that they still are around in sideways world.

There's plenty to discuss, but I also want to know where Ben was during this episode? I think I understand why he wasn't present, but his unexplained absence was too conspicuous to me.

Posted by: clw96 | May 5, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

D'OH!

You're completely correct UniqueID, I don't know how I forgot about the dead from the island still alive in sideways world.

Posted by: kingcranky | May 5, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

In the scenes from next week Locke's scar was VERY prominent and red. I belive it was deliberately reduced and will be explained.

Posted by: cuestarey | May 5, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

clw, Ben is off with Richard and Miles hunting for more C-4...because if there's one thing this show needs, it's more impulsive decisions to blow things up.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 5, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Another Frank thought... maybe he still is alive because he will eventually fly the plane off the island?

Posted by: twinbrook | May 5, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

My husband just asked me, "Who do you think Alison Janney will play next week--MIB's mother?" And then it all became clear to me: OMG, ALISON JANNEY WILL BE MOTHER NATURE AND JACOB AND MIB ARE HER CHILDREN SNOW MIZER AND HEAT MIZER!!!

After all this time, it all makes sense.

Posted by: PQSully | May 5, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

"In the scenes from next week Locke's scar was VERY prominent and red. I belive it was deliberately reduced and will be explained.

Posted by: cuestarey"

Weird if so. Is the semblance of Locke's body aging backward in time or something? Does being inhabited by a near-immortal make the body heal itself? Still introducing new puzzles with four hours left to go...I admire their ambition if not their planning.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 5, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"Not sure why Widmore felt locking up the group was actually protecting them, or why the sonic barriers weren't around the dock or submarine either, you'd think the sonic fence would be positioned around anything MIBLocke could possibly use to escape the island, and that it would be almost impossible to deactivate it from outside the perimeter."

Because Widmore knows that MIB doesn't need a sub or a plane to get off the island, he needs dead candidates. Thus, the protection of candidates over transportation.

Posted by: PQSully | May 5, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

VAjyd - Sayid basically told Jack that "Desmond is in a well 3 miles from the dock and MIB wants him dead, so you need him." Then he said something along the lines of "You're the one." I rewound and listened to it because I couldn't make it out the first time, either.

Posted by: PostReader4 | May 5, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

In an earlier episode Locke/MIB was stabbed, but now bullets just bounce off him.

Posted by: buffysummers | May 5, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Cuestarey: I got the impression that in the preview for next week's episode, Locke's scar was prominent because it was a scene from the pilot, right after the crash -- when he was teaching Walt how to play backgammon.

Posted by: Paige326 | May 5, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

"In the scenes from next week Locke's scar was VERY prominent and red. I belive it was deliberately reduced and will be explained."

I thought that was just a flashback to when Locke taught Walt to play backgammon -- wasn't he holding up the game pieces? The scar would have been fresh back then, of course.

Posted by: Janine1 | May 5, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Like cf07, I too was glad to see the old Sayiid back but lament that it was only for a moment. He has always been one of my favorites.

Most touching moment was when Jack, Hurley, Kate and the unconscious Sawyer made it back to the beach and Hurley started crying when he realized that Sun and Jin (and Sayiid) did not make it. That was worse for me than the video clip above.

Posted by: hodie2 | May 5, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Jack was right- if Sawyer had not pulled the wires, nothing would have happened.

Posted by: njshore | May 5, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

As Charlie was dying, he gave Desmond an important message. As Juliet was dying, she set off the bomb to try to restore everyone back to their normal life, pre-island.

The drowning of Sun and Jin, especially right after their clunkily written reunion, minutes before, does not seem to serve any purpose related to propelling the story/plot forward. To me, it's a lot like Michael being brought back into the storyline for a few eps. before being blown up. Why? Why reunite them and then kill them off? It just seemed gratuitous to me, that it was done solely to jerk our heartstrings.

I'm also bummed about Sayid, but at least it was in character for Sayid to sacrifice himself for his friends. Something he has done time and time again on the island.

I'm ambivalent about this season. I think the "meatiest" part of Lost has been the Dharma Initiative, the various stations and their mysterious purposes. Since it has shifted into a conflict between demigods or deities (whatever Jacob and F/Locke are), I think it's been less enjoyable for me.

I can't really explain why I'm totally okay with time travel, polar bears, disappearing islands, and the donkey wheel, but less "in love" with having two godlike entities duking it out and using our castaways as cannon fodder for their fight. But that's how it is for me.

Still hoping that Lindecuse can blow me away with the finale, though. Also hoping that some of my favorite characters are still not dead. Maybe they're just "mostly dead" like in the Princess Bride.

Posted by: NW_Washington | May 5, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"There is no Sayid."

Was I the only one who thought that this was a weird line from Jack? He didn't say, "Sayid's dead." Or "Sayid's gone."

Posted by: kenzoan13 | May 5, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I have a sad feeling that in the end all that will be left is Jack and Locke sitting on a beach arguing over who's right. Everyone else will be dead on the island. As has happened over and over again for thousands of years. The Wheel of Time turns, and haveing turned, returns things back to the beginning. (where's Inigo Montoya when you need him, or better yet Wallace Shawn).

I think I may be very disappointed if that is the end, with all the other characters alive only in sideways world.

Of course there is always Desmond, whom fate has put into the game for maybe the first time, and who may be able to change the outcome, if only he makes a certain sacrifice, or convinces others to do so.

Posted by: louiesully | May 5, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I'm confused. If MIB just wants everyone together and then dead by another's hand, why did he stop them from getting on the rigged-to-blow plane? wouldn't that have been the perfect way for him to get rid of all the candidates? then he could leave the island via Des boat or the sub?

Posted by: mojomom1 | May 5, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

A few things from the episode will need explaining:
1) Where are Richard, Ben and Miles? Did they put the C4 on the plane or was it Widmore? What's taking them so long to get to Hydra or at least back into the story line?
2) Where is Widmore when Smokey attacks? I doubt he died, but how did he protect himself?
3) Why did Widmore let the Candidates get on the submarine? He did not put armed guards around it to stop them like the airplane, but the red shirts-in-hiding waited until most of them got on the submarine before firing on them?
4) How does Widmore know that there are only four candidates left? Jacob gave Ilana six names. Somehow Widmore knew that Sayyid went to the dark side and was no longer a candidate.

Of course we already knew Jack was the Candidate, like Jacob he is a healer.

Sun and Jin's island story has been touching, and by far the best love story of the series. I hope it works out better in Sideways world for them.

I suspect that we need to be prepared for the deaths of all the major characters on the island. If Jack's "the one", then I suspect the others (Sawyer, Hurley and even Kate) will sacrifice themselves, just like Sayyid, in order to protect him. It will be fascinating to see how MIB manipulates their deaths (since he can't outright kill Sawyer or Hurley).

Wow, what a great story-- LOST goes on for six seasons, and we are coming down to the end, and there are still so many questions to be answered and potential plot twists. Great writing.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 5, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Good point about Jin and Sun having a gratuitous death.

As sad as it was, I kept thinking how at least they were together --- especially since it was opposite of last time when Jin made Sun go, and then she watched the tanker explode from the airplane (Which, by the way, I still think Sun's reaction to the explosion is the best acting we've seen on this show thus far).

I felt that the Hurley, Kate, Jack weeping at the end was way forced. Oh boo hoo, they're dead. Not really believable, imo.

Posted by: smynola06 | May 5, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I was heartbroken last night, I cried when Jin and Sun died on the sub and then I started crying all over again when Hurley broke down on the beach. What a tragic show.
I'm also pretty sure that Lapidus got whacked upside the head with a steal door and likely did not swim to safety.
I also noticed that John Locke's father is Anthony Cooper, same guy Sawyer is looking for and wants dead? interesting connection if that is the case.
As for the deeper meaning of the show, I found it interesting that Locke is attempting to get all of the people on the island in the sub, and in sideways world it seems that a lot of the main characters are meeting in the hospital, all in the same place all at the same time, I wonder if that will be significant in the coming episodes.

Posted by: oceankim82 | May 5, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

After all we've been through this season, I STILL don't understand the purpose of wasting several episodes in the temple with Dogan et al. Whatever information we learned there (i.e., Sayid being infected) could have been learned much more effectively and efficiently.

Some folks (Evageline Lilly, for example) prefer the character-rich stories to the mythology. However, I think the writers worked hard to come full circle and make the connection between the two, even if they did so clumsily at times. I'm sure that I'll still have tons of questions after it's over, but methinks I'm ready to see how this thing's really going to go down (as opposed to lamenting the end or being unsatisfied with whatever ending the writers have in store).

Also, very happy to see Allison Janney next week -- she was always one of my favs on The West Wing.

Posted by: clw96 | May 5, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"Of course there is always Desmond, whom fate has put into the game for maybe the first time, and who may be able to change the outcome, if only he makes a certain sacrifice, or convinces others to do so."

Desmond is Santa Claus, see, and he comes in disguise as Widmore's prisoner (Mr. Clows) to convince the islanders (the good people of Southtown) that faith and love will save the day ("I belieeeeeve in Santa Claus like I believe in looooove..."). Then Jacob and MIB make a bargain (agree to let it snow in Southtown) and the baby reindeer gets saved... and Mrs. Claus stops crossdressing... Okay, my analogy is falling apart.

Posted by: PQSully | May 5, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Liz and Jen about Terry O'Quinn's acting -- it was stellar. And I, too, thought Matthew Fox was doing great and playing off Terry superbly.
As for the 4 Widmore mentioned -- he definitely said Ford, not four. I rewatched the whole show after watching the whole show (can't get enough). Awesome episode. RIP Sayid, Jin and Sun.

Posted by: sassyter8426 | May 5, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

one thing bugging me about Sun/Jin death... what about Ji Yeon? if sideways world takes over as the main and real time line (Donnie Darko style), sure she'll be born and might be fine... but it seems Ji Yeon's "island timeline" story was way too important (island making jin fertile, sun having to leave jin behind to get off the island so she wouldn't die in childbirth, etc..) to just throw away. same with Aaron...

none-the-less, still excited to see where they take us next

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 5, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Oceankim82: Anthony Cooper is the con man that Sawyer holds responsible for his parents death. Locke "tricks" Sawyer into killing his father him back in Season 4(?)

Posted by: clw96 | May 5, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"In the scenes from next week Locke's scar was VERY prominent and red. I belive it was deliberately reduced and will be explained.

Posted by: cuestarey"

That promo footage was of season 1 where Locke is telling Walt about the rules of backgammon... I think the fading scar was either a continuity error or just the scar eventually healing over time on Locke's body...

RIP Sun, Jin and Sayid.... and I hope Frank's alive... I really hope..

Posted by: elwingt | May 5, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I thought Frank had to be alive to fly the plane off the Island. But if that's not his purpose for being in the story this long, I don't know why he was there other than because nobody had killed him yet.

Posted by: duhneese | May 5, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Just typing about Jin & Sun's death makes me a tad verklempt.

I too cried like a baby for about 15 minutes afterward & I'm not pregnant. Just way too invested in fictional characters.

Posted by: wadejg | May 5, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Also found it odd that Widmore put them in a cage to "protect" them. Sawyer saw right through that one. But why did he?

It does seem easier for MIB to get them on the plane and let the C4 on the plane kill them. But instead he gives it to Jack, somehow knowing that Jack would get on the sub anyway, that someone would try to disarm it, and that Sawyer would find a way to prevent MIB from getting on the sub. Seems MIB would have had a better chance at the plane. But at the plane MIB would have risked the Lostees finding the C4 and disarming it. Also it may have already been disconnected, and MIB couldn't reconnect it since he can't kill the candidates himself. Still he chose a seemingly more complicated plan than necessary.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 5, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"ALISON JANNEY WILL BE MOTHER NATURE AND JACOB AND MIB ARE HER CHILDREN SNOW MIZER AND HEAT MIZER!!!"

Hahaha! You must be 35-50.

I thought Matthew Fox's acting at the shore really forced. I cried when Jin and Sun drowned, and when Hurley burst into tears--but Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox? Ugh. Average actors at best, sorry.

And I really want to know what Sayid said to Jack!

Posted by: chunche | May 5, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but I think that MIB shot Kate knowing that was the only way he was going to get Jack on the plane.

On another note, I wondered if Richard, Ben, and Miles had already retrieved the C4 and had wired the plane. Though, I have to say, it doesn't look to me like that plane is going anywhere anyway.

I too cried like a baby at Jin and Sun's death. Would have with Sayid's as well, but I just didn't have the time as so much was happening. RIP Jin, Sun, and Sayid.

Posted by: lostcyclist | May 5, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else note the fact that at the beginning of the episode Jack kept saying to Locke that he (Jack) thought Locke was "a candidate"? If Locke had let Jack "fix" him (thus restoring his "candidate" status), I wonder what effect that might have had on MIB on the island.

Posted by: clw96 | May 5, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I think Widmore caged the Losties as bait! He knows he has to face FLocke, and I think he has an idea for a way to "kill" him.

But it was a poorly thought out plan - who in the world sets up the sonic barriers and leaves the power switch outside the circle?!? Dumb, dumb move.

Posted by: blondie3 | May 5, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I think Sayid's death got short shrift in comparison to Jin and Sun. Don't get me wrong, I understand the poignancy of Jin and Sun's love story, but Sayid could have gotten a little more props.

Posted by: clw96 | May 5, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

here's my idea on the locke getting them on the sub, not the plane discussion...

maybe Smokey/Locke needs to plane to physically get off the island after all the candidates are dead. they've made a big deal about smokey having some trouble with water a few times now.

why he would lead them to the plane in the first place, i don't know. maybe its because he knew richard was hellbent on stopping him by blowing the plane up (after spying on richards converstation with his dead wife via hurley) that he knew they would have tried to rig something up. so maybe his only plan was to go there for explosives..

just an idea...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 5, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I thought this episode was terrible. The flash-sideways could have taken place in one scene (Jack: John, what happened? John: Kind of broke my dad. Jack: Dude, get over it. John: Maybe), and the on-island story was senseless. The closer this show gets to the end, the more convinced I am that it's a sloppy mess that won't make any sense and will annoy everyone except the most extreme fanbois.

Posted by: strohminator | May 5, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Just need to comment on the inappropriately-timed nicorettte shark commerical that came on immediately after Jin and Sun's death scene. I was all bleary-eyed and sad, then the hysterical commerical made me snap right out of it. i loved that commercial, but man, totally ruined the emotional moment.

Posted by: skitch00 | May 5, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Jere1570 (sub vs. plane) that makes sense.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 5, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I guess I had a slightly different take on Sawyer and the wires. The Devil taunted Christ on the cross - So if you're the son of God - why don't you just fly down from there? And, theoretically, he could have summoned "the power" - but he showed his Faith in a Bigger Plan by not doing so.

Jack tried to tell Sawyer that this was a test in which he needed to demonstrate his Faith in a Higher Plan - but Sawyer's faith is in Sawyer. And that's his downfall.

Imagine the guilt he's now going to feel over Sun, Jin and even Sayid. No more indignant finger pointing at Jack over Juliet.

Jack's now shown this level of Faith twice. First with Richard Alpert and the matches - and now the C4 and the wires. He's really become Locke - who always had implicit Faith that somehow all was for the best in this, if not the best of all possible worlds, this particular world in which we find ourselves (if I may paraphrase Voltaire on the cockeyed Optimists).

In contrast, Alt U Locke seems to be a Realist - and a Realist on a guilt trip, to boot.

Locke and Jack truly seem to have reversed roles in the two different realities.

Posted by: jqw3827 | May 5, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"There is no Sayid."

Was I the only one who thought that this was a weird line from Jack? He didn't say, "Sayid's dead." Or "Sayid's gone."

-------------------

I think it was shorthand for Jack and makes sense. Much more concise than, "Hurley, Sayid just ran off into the sub and was blown up by a bunch of C-4. Remember Artz or Ilana? He died the same way they did and there is nothing left back there to try to rescue."

I am looking forward to the Sayid/Desmond conversation that we must bet getting.

Posted by: drweidner1 | May 5, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I hope we eventually find out what happened to Vincent. O_o;

Posted by: SilverySpringlike | May 5, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I've been wondering about Jin and still pregnant Sun being alive and well in the Sideways timeline, and Ji Yeon remaining in the original timeline, now an orphan.

Could SW Sun give birth to a second, different child or will there be 2 Ji Yeons existing, and ultimately one will have to... go somewhere else? I know we've seen Miles as an adult and an infant on the island at the same time, which is now starting to bother me again. But I have been hoping that the two timelines will merge somehow. How would that work? Any ideas on what the outcome for the Kwon family may be?

I am still confidant that it will all make sense in the end...

Posted by: lah802 | May 5, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Charlie's death was foolish because it was unnecessary. He didn't have to die to save Desmond. He could have just run out of the radio room, jumped into the pool with Desmond, and swam to safety. Let the Looking Glass flood. They didn't need it anymore.

Maybe Charlie thought that he had to fulfill Desmond's vision that his death had to precede Claire's getting off the island. We have yet to see whether that works out.

Posted by: JohnArbogast | May 5, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I think about the plane/sub situation: Locke went to the plane first because he got there first. He suspected or knew there would be a problem, and his suspicions were confirmed when he saw just two toadies guarding the plane -- which is why he immediately began checking for sabotage. He realized that someone (Widmore or Richard et al) wanted him to get on the plane with the Losties and be blown to smithereens. He went to the sub and went along with the plot, but switched knap sacks, never trusting anyone. He probably saw the look Sawyer gave Jack before he ran to the sub, switched the knapsacks just in case. He knew that if he was betrayed, the Losties would pay with their lives, if not, he would have switched the backpacks back and disarmed the bomb when he was safe on the sub. Does this make sense at all? Yes, I know, it doesn't explain why he took the watch or, for that matter, how an ancient evil MIB would know how to rig up a bomb.

Posted by: sassyter8426 | May 5, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

"But I have been hoping that the two timelines will merge somehow. How would that work?"


Original timeline will cease to exist and SW world will be the only one moving forward. No more "gods", just humans making bad decisions.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 5, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Was anyone else expecting MIB to melt like the Wicked Witch when Jack pushed him into the ocean? Was this another of FLocke's white lies that he could not travel over water?

Posted by: CafeBeouf | May 5, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"I'm confused. If MIB just wants everyone together and then dead by another's hand, why did he stop them from getting on the rigged-to-blow plane? wouldn't that have been the perfect way for him to get rid of all the candidates? then he could leave the island via Des boat or the sub?"

Thoughts:

(1) MIB doesn't need to physically leave the island; that story was all part of his ruse. He just needs the candidates dead.

(2) If they'd all gotten on the plane, MIB and Claire would have not had an excuse to be absent (because he'd already killed the guards).

(3) The plane bomb made them more susceptible to MIB's con: he presented an immediate threat (Whidmore), which made them focus completely on that (escape!) instead of seeing what else was going on. Typical con man misdirection. Added bonus: the urgency forced them to rely on instinct -- which MIB believes will lead to their destruction.

(4) Along these lines, I'm not convinced that Whidmore actually planted the bomb, or that if he did, that it wasn't at MIB's direction (ever since Re-Con, I've thought there was something more going on between Whidmore and MIB). I suspect MIB planted it (or had it planted) as a ruse to further his con (see point 3). If that's the case, then if the plane had taken off, the bomb wouldn't have gone off, per Jack's rules.

For MIB's plan to work, he needed his double-cross to be discovered, AFTER they were all together in a confined space without him. They would then naturally try to defuse the bomb (thinking that they were foiling him), which would in fact trigger the detonation that otherwise could not have happened.

In the end, his plan was partially successful: as MIB expected, Sawyer fell for it, and because of that, several people died. But MIB didn't plan on Jack's faith (which would have saved them all), or Sayid's sacrifice (which allowed the remaining 4 to escape).

Posted by: laura33 | May 5, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

strohminator - so glad at least one other person had my reaction to this episode! The quality of Lost episodes has always been inconsistent, but I had hoped they would pick up and all be great at the end. Oh well.

Jin, and Sun's deaths were contrived, derivative, and didn't serve the story of these great characters. Sayid's death was a cliche, and fit his pre-temple character, not the zombie they've shoved into the "story" this season, for god knows what reason.

Posted by: wamelohe | May 5, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't Jacob's need to prove man's ability for redemption mean that Sawyer is perhaps a very likely candidate? After all, he may find things especially difficult after causing the deaths on the sub, but it could be cathartic. I would think the conversion of a former criminal and self-interested con man might hold more proof of redemption than Jack turning into the man of faith. Just a thought, though I'm not going to be expecting anything simple for the ending anyway!

Posted by: monkeynavigated | May 5, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I think Sawyer and Jack are on an even keel now. Jack's lack of faith led to Juliette's death. Now Sawyer's lack of faith led to the death of Sun/Jin/Sayid. Now Sawyer knows how Jack feels and the animosity between them can be put to rest.

Posted by: skitch00 | May 5, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"There is no Sayid."

Was I the only one who thought that this was a weird line from Jack? He didn't say, "Sayid's dead." Or "Sayid's gone."

-------------------

I think it was shorthand for Jack and makes sense. Much more concise than, "Hurley, Sayid just ran off into the sub and was blown up by a bunch of C-4. Remember Artz or Ilana? He died the same way they did and there is nothing left back there to try to rescue."

I am looking forward to the Sayid/Desmond conversation that we must bet getting.

--------------------------------------
That was kind of my point; saying "Sayid's dead," I think, is more shorthand than "There is no Sayid." It reminded me of what Widmore and others were saying about what would happen if Smokey got off the Island, that everything would "cease to be," or however it was phrased. Made me wonder if Sayid's short-lived alliance with MIB affected his very existence in Island world.

Maybe I'm just reading too much into it. That would be a first. :)

Posted by: kenzoan13 | May 5, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Great analysis laura33! Makes sense to me.

I'm not convinced Widmore is working for/with MIB, since Widmore went to great lengths to bring Desmond to the island, and MIB wants Desmond dead. I think the caged Lostees could have been bait for MIB, but then what was the trap? Perhaps Widmore had no time to spring it.

Widmore only has a few red shirts left (if any). MIB has lost his red shirts.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 5, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

At first I was confused about why Jin didn't leave to go take care of Ji Yeon, but think about it from this perspective: he only knows his daughter from a handful of pictures, he knew Sun's mother would take care of her, and he knew that their only viable option of escaping the island was sinking in the ocean. Why break his promise of never leaving Sun when his chances of leaving the island are damn near impossible?

Posted by: Tirade1 | May 5, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"he knew Sun's mother would take care of her"

True, as are your other points -- but doesn't that mean Ji Yeon will also be raised by Sun's father -- the criminal kingpin who made Jin do awful things and nearly destroyed their marriage? (Or did Sun's mother leave him at some point and I've just forgotten that detail?) Seems like there would still be something to fight for.

Posted by: Janine1 | May 5, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, KevinAF, I haven't totally convinced myself about the Widmore/MIB link, given the Desmond issue you mention. There was just something about the way Recon played out that made me think he and MIB were in some way connected. But it is more likely that, as some others have suggested, MIB just knew/suspected the bomb was there and decided to use it for his own ends.

The caged Lostees also struck me as a setup -- one of those things that, if it happened in a movie, you'd expect the characters to say, "wait a minute, that was too easy." I mean, Widmore knew MIB had human helpers (since Sayid killed a bunch of his folks and sent Dirty Liz Lemon back); why go to the trouble of setting up the sonic fence without putting some heavy guards on the power supply?

But I'm probably reading too much into things. The frustrating thing with this show is that there is so obviously a deeper game going on (if not 5 or 6), but danged if I can figure out what the [bleep] it is! :-)

PS -- good point about redshirts! I was thinking that when the door exploded on Lapidus. I mean, he hung around for several seasons after the helicopter escape without much to do. So his ultimate role seems to have been either (a) MIB diversion (to convince the others that the plane escape was real), or (b) just the last of the Lostee redshirts. Which makes me sad, because I really liked him.

Posted by: laura33 | May 5, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

a little off topic but this was being discussed here at work...

richard... he's not a candidate. but he was made immortal as a gift from jacob.

so... why was richard under the impression a few eps ago that he could die at all? i understand that the candidates can die (just can't be killed by MIB), so wasn't Richard the reason the dynamite didn't explode a few eps ago, not Jack?

thoughts?

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 5, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Who planted the C-4?: When Flocke kills the redshirts at the plane, he takes the watch of one of them that winds up as the timer for the bomb. Didn't he do that before going on the plane? How did he know to do that if it wasn't a ruse?

The end of Sun&Jin: Seemed forced, of course, I didn't like Titanic, either. I just felt manipulated and used. Bad parents-- what about Ji-Yeon?

Hurley on the sub & the beach: Dude, stop overacting.

Jack & Flocke: Dynamic! Please, sir, can I have some more?

The sub sank, and the plane has been wasting away in the sand. Do they really think they can get lift to fly off the island and get back to LA?

Lassie! Lassie! Desmond's in the well! Go get help!

Posted by: doobrah | May 5, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

doobrah-
i may be wrong but i was alwasy under the impression that Ben/Richard/Miles planted the C-4 on the plane. The last time we saw them, they were going to Ben's old house at the barracks to get C-4 since Hurley destroyed all the dynamite by blowing up the black rock.

how smoky/locke knew it was in there, i'm not totally sure... BUT... they made it a point of showing him listening in/watching Richard talk to his dead wife through Hurley at the end of Ab Aeterno.. so he knew Richard and company were going to try to stop him, and maybe he assumed/guessed/heard that blowing up the plane was Richards way of doing that.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 5, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

strohminator and wamomekohe, I couldn't agree more. What was the purpose of the sun and jin storylines if you are just going to kill them like that. In my opinion their plots have been very week this season(sun loses her ability to speak english then suddenly regains it at the site of jin?).After last night I thought it would have been better if Jin died on the tanker. Why bother dragging Lapidus around if your only going to kill him.

I hope they are not going to end the show by having sideways pilot Locke "regain" his body from MIB then flying the plane off the island with whoever is left.

Posted by: adam_peritz | May 5, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

It was so sad seeing Sun and Jin die. Why don't they bring back Juliet again and kill her. Maybe they can shoot a puppy too.

Way too sad.

Posted by: cashink2003 | May 5, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I can almost deal with the gaping plot problem that Frank Lapidus, captain of the Ajira jet that crashed onto the island, doesn't enlighten anyone that there are many, many physical and mechanical reasons why it they cannot simply "take off" again in that plane.

More troubling is Foxy's stunning breach of ethics in tracking down the father of a mentally competent adult who declined his invitation to undergo elective spinal surgery. Absurd!

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 5, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"The end of Sun&Jin: Seemed forced, of course, I didn't like Titanic, either. I just felt manipulated and used. Bad parents-- what about Ji-Yeon?"

Aw, c'mon, cut them a little slack! They were in a pretty sudden and horribly stressful situation on top of the last three years of stress and separation. Sun DID try to get Jin to leave, but how hard would it be for Jin to leave the woman he's looked for and longed for for three years and only just found again? Maybe with more time to reflect he might have, but with minutes to go and hoping to save his wife (and his daughter, in many ways, an abstraction as he's never met her and is already clearly being cared for), I can understand why he remained with SUn.

Posted by: PQSully | May 5, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Laura 33: After his "Looks like somebody got her voice back" groaner during the Sun/Jin reconnect, Lapidus had to die. I'm surprised SAwyer didn't shoot him on the spot.

Posted by: jmcgavin52 | May 5, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I haven't read all of the comments but from the analysis and the lost hour chat today no one else seems to have thought of this: If you are about to ambush a group of armed guards in front of a submarine which represents your only mode of transportation off of an island you desperately want to escape, why would you ask a violent smoke monster who kills anything in its way to guard your back as you go down a hill guns blazing instead of saying "Hey smokey why don't you go kill everybody down there so that we can walk in unharmed"????

It's not like the answer is that they didn't want to order anyone's death, they went down knowing they were going to shoot all the people and get to the sub at any cost. It makes even less sense when you consider that Sawyer would potentially see Locke being in smoke form as a distraction which would allow them to escape without him.

It also seems completely unreasonable that Sawyer, having seen what the smoke monster can do, would ask Jack to keep him off the sub when he knows that he can turn into a smoke monster hell bent on killing everything in its path.

I can handle there being some unexplained occurrences and mystical things in the show. For example the lighthouse didn't bother me because well, its a magical island. However, when characters don't use common sense which they have been shown to possess it just feels like sloppy writing.

Posted by: skahan54 | May 5, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Does MIB know:
- some people survived the sub sinking, because he can feel it?
- that if they were all dead he would have what he wants (to be free?) and he doesn't, so realized that Desmond must still be alive and is headed off to kill him? (not knowing that Jack is soon to be going to the same place per Sayid's instruction)?

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 5, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

**MIB had the Losties (except Sawyer) and us utterly fooled. Wouldn't you agree?**

OK, I'm late to the party, but NO, HE DID NOT HAVE ME FOOLED.

And I do not have any hesitation in saying it -- I TOLD YOU SO.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 5, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Slightly off topic at this point, but I think that Liz Kelly does have a real problem with Evangeline Lilly. In the interview that they note, Lilly does say "ravishes" not "lavishes" as Liz Kelly takes pains to note.

Posted by: AlfromAlexandria | May 5, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Kill 'em all.
Let God sort 'em out.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | May 5, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Not sure why, but I was over the whole Sun/Jin story line and didn't really care that they checked themselves into Davey Jones' locker.

As for Sayid...there was some good in him. Glad to see that he could get there (as well as provide proof that he didn't kill Desmond).

Anyone else notice the recognition between Jin and Locke in the hospital? I thought for sure Locke was going to turn around and go into the room to follow him. Speaking of the hospital, I'm pretty sure that orderly will be fired for not wheeling Locke outside...rules are rules no matter how handy you are with a wheelchair! lol.

So now we're left with three: Sawyer, Hugo and Jack. Can't wait until next week.

Posted by: SamFelis | May 5, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Liz: Was it? I wasn't sure. I thought Rousseau's had a ballerina in it. I didn't manage to catch what the song was. Did you?

Jen: Rousseau's did have a ballerina, you're right. But the outside of the box looked very much the same. I am trying to track down the song. It sounded familiar but I could not place it.

****************************

Sorry, but if you've been watching Lost for any length of time, you'd know immediately what that song was.

Not very impressive ladies.

Posted by: SamFelis | May 5, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry, but if you've been watching Lost for any length of time, you'd know immediately what that song was.

Not very impressive ladies."

I've seen every episode, own all the DVDs, and read several columns about the show. And no, I couldn't place it either. (I have a great memory for some things, but obviously not for everything.) Really, no need for the attitude.

Posted by: Janine1 | May 5, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

PortlandMaine: > "More troubling is Foxy's stunning breach of ethics in tracking down the father of a mentally competent adult who declined his invitation to undergo elective spinal surgery. Absurd!"

In normal life, Jack probably would not have done so. But these LA X people are responding to compulsions they don't even grasp.

skahan54: > "why would you ask a violent smoke monster who kills anything in its way to guard your back as you go down a hill guns blazing instead of saying "Hey smokey why don't you go kill everybody down there so that we can walk in unharmed"????"

Because Jack didn't want MIB on the sub. He wanted to leave him behind. But not knowing what would happen next, I had the exact thought you did. That, plus, "why didn't MIB overrule Jack to suggest he clear the way?!" But the answer to that ended up being the same: MIB wanted to be left behind.

What I found interesting what that MIB was capable of such cunning. He hadn't seemed like a very deep player for a while there.


Posted by: MeriJ | May 5, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

i have defended Dogen and the "temple episodes" for awhile, hoping and having faith that the writers will make them relevant.

i'm starting to seriously doubt that my hopes will come true.

dogen made it clear that every human has a scale, and that sayid clearly failed and, i quote him, "evil incarnate." Appartently Dogen did not realize that Sayid could come back from that, and redeem himself. Glad Sayid didn't get off'd by Dogen or any of his crew back then or else Sayid's death would have REALLY been grossly and unfairly dealt with.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 5, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Sun and Jin's death marred:

The underwater shot of their hands releasing was so epic and classy. And then immediately, BLAM!!, a loud commercial. Even watching via DVR, we could not fast forward quickly enough to avoid the moment being contaminated. Oh well.

Charlie's death was indeed more moving due to the less hurried pacing, but I will try to remember only the sad beauty of Sun and Jin's hands and forget the dumbass commmercial.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 5, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Smokie vs. water:

I still think MIB was averse to water prior to committing himself to Locke's image. The first scene we ever saw him looking like Locke, wasn't he standing ankle-deep in the water? Like it was something he relished?

For now, I'm sticking with the "electro-magnetic smokie" + water don't mix hypothesis. After Jack dunked him last night, I was thinking "great, now he can't go smokie until his clothes dry out."

But MIB has proved to be more subtle and devious than I gave him credit for, so maybe not...

Very cool that Jack saw through MIB's con, no?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 5, 2010 5:46 PM | Report abuse

The episode title "The Candidate" could refer to John Lock, as in sideways LA Dr. Jack says he is a candidate for the surgery.

Posted by: vonmalder | May 5, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

"Speaking of the hospital, I'm pretty sure that orderly will be fired for not wheeling Locke outside" - posted by SamFelis

I had the same thought and it was really distracting...on the other hand credit where it is due, after fully expecting a long, drawn-out scene in the OR, it was cool that the writers took a different path.

Also agree that Dogen and Lennon are more annoying than ever, in retrospect. Desmond snapped Sayid out of "evil incarnate" in one conversation.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 5, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

The final scene fo Jin and Sun was SOOOOO "Titanic," only Celine Dion crooning was missing. STILL ... perhaps the saddest LOST episode ever, including the death of Juliet.

Posted by: chuckbloom | May 5, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Three comments, now that I've actually read the ones above:

"Handsome_John_Pruitt" has got to be the best WaPo handle we've seen here. I'm jealous!

skitch00: Sorry for the "me-too." I hadn't read your comment about the Sun-Jin/shark commercial when I posted mine.

Jere1570: "so... why was richard under the impression a few eps ago that he could die at all? i understand that the candidates can die (just can't be killed by MIB), so wasn't Richard the reason the dynamite didn't explode a few eps ago, not Jack?"

If Richard had lit the fuse on his own, it would not have exploded -- he can't kill himself. So he got Jack to light it. But then Jack sat down -- since he can't kill himself either, the dynamite did not explode.

Richard can't die of old age, but presumably he can be killed. MIB can't directly kill any candidates, nor can they commit suicide. But they can kill one another. Hey, it's all in the Rulebook, on pages 4, 8, 15-16 and maybe one or two others, if memory serves...


Posted by: MeriJ | May 5, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

My favorite line, but maybe not the exact wording:

Jack's poignant comment to Locke that he didn't know how to let go either -- and "I was hoping that you could go first."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 5, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Well, Sawyer is certainly going to awaken more humbled. The con man was conned in a big way. He definitely can't hate on Jack about Juliet anymore, given that he got Sayid, Jin, Sun, and Lapidus all killed. And I do think Lapidus is dead. He got smashed by a thick metal door being forced in by the ocean. I don't see him surviving that.

I was extremely sad about Jin and Sun, but I am bothered by how the writers handled their reunion in general. I felt cheated. I think I read somewhere that the writers felt that the reunion people were waiting for was Kate and Sawyer in the sideways timeline. I personally could have cared less about that. Jin and Sun had been separated for 2 SEASONS. I was expecting so much more intensity for their reunion. It seemed thrown together.

I found it interesting that at the end of this episode, the MIB not only knew the sub sank, but he also knew that some had managed to escape the sinking sub. How could he have possibly known that? What are the scope of his "powers"?

I was sad about Sayid's death because he has always been one of my top three favorites. But, as odd as this sounds, I was oddly happy that they allowed his character the chance to redeem himself. But, I still want to know what this "infection" was he had....an infection that reanimated his dead body two hours after he died (Miles tells Sayid that he was dead for two hours early in the season). And I'm glad it was confirmed that he did not kill Desmond.

I'm wondering how Miles, Ben, and Richard are going to figure into the final episode.

Posted by: linz2 | May 5, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

"Was anyone else expecting MIB to melt like the Wicked Witch when Jack pushed him into the ocean? Was this another of FLocke's white lies that he could not travel over water?"

YES! I expected him to struggle at least since he seems to avoid water, like wriggle around in pain or something. Nice to see Jack get the better of someone, especially Locke!

Posted by: Fate1 | May 5, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

"I found it interesting that at the end of this episode, the MIB not only knew the sub sank, but he also knew that some had managed to escape the sinking sub. How could he have possibly known that? What are the scope of his "powers"?" - posted by linz2

I think MIB knew it didn't work because if it had, he would have gotten his wish, and he didn't. He seemed pretty pissed. But - this was my question - I'm not sure whether he figured out anyone survived the sub. He said the sub sank. So I think he figured out that Sayid didn't kill Desmond.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 5, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

I think a lot has been cleared up, for us and the remaining Lostees. There is no question as to what Locke is, no question what his goal is, to have the candidates kill themselves. The candidates are immune from MIB, which they know now. BUT, Kate is also left, and as Widmore pointed out, she is not important. Well, MIB certainly can use her as a hostage to get the candidates to gather together again to be killed. Only now he has no recruits, except Claire, which I find interesting. She has yet to redeem herself.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 5, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

And an interesting thing ... Locke said the sub sank, so he believes all were killed. He then says he is going to finish what he started. But, if he was successful in killing all aboard the sub, there would be no candidates left, right? Ahhh, remember the name Wallace? I think its Des (nice Scottish name for a nice Scotsman). Locke could not kill him and asked Sayid to kill him. I believe Des is the Wallace candidate and Locke is now going to Des, with Claire, to have Claire kill him and finish killing all of the candidates. He must know Sayid did not kill Des, probably because he knows the cork is still in place, but we know that could also be due to the other candidates surviving.

As for MIB wanting off the island, he does not want to get off the island with anybody. He's doing what he told Jacob he would do after he told Jacob he would someday kill him. When Jacob said another would take his place MIB said "Then I'll kill him too". Once all the candidates are killed MIB will be free to leave the island, and he won't need a plane or sub. The cork will be gone.

So, can we assume all the red shirts on both sides are now dead? (told ya there would be lots of bloodshed soon because of all the redshirts on both sides :-)

Widmore must be somewhere, maybe with Zoe. Ben, Richard and Miles are off on a vacation in New Otherville, Jack, Hurley, Kate and Sawyer are crying on a beach, Des is in a well, Claire is hanging with Locke, and Bernard, Rose and Vincent are ... somewhere. Is that the total population of the island now? If so we are getting down to it, fewer people killed and lots of answered questions is coming. Can't wait for next week!

Posted by: Fate1 | May 5, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

He said the sub sank. So I think he figured out that Sayid didn't kill Desmond.
Posted by: PortlandMaine

I see you have come to the same conclusion. I also think this was the reason (the writer's reason anyway) for Sayid to tell Jack where Desmond was. Now there is a race to see who gets to Desmond first.

And did anyone find it interesting that Locke knew about the bomb in the plane? I think he's still in that mode, like Ben, knowing the future. But, if he thinks the sub really sank with all on board, this might be the end of his ability to see the future, thanks to Sayid redeeming himself, which we can thank Desmond for. Whatever Desmond said to Sayid at the well turned Sayid around, and I'm guessing it will turn Claire around in a future episode. I think Jack is the one, but for now I think Desmond is more Jacob-like and a serious candidate.

And Widmore did not mention Desmond when he named those he was to protect (candidates) because he had already sent Desmond (Wallace) on his mission after giving him some powers, the same powers that Jacob got long ago from a high EM field, probably on the island, powers Ben also has, to a smaller extent, but is not a good enough person to make use of them, yet. And I don't think there is any rule that there must be one cork.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 5, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

[Kate] has yet to redeem herself.

Sorry, Fate, I don't buy that. Coming back to the island was a entirely selfless act. She could have kept Aaron and been happy that his natural mom was out of the picture. She came back for Claire and Aaron and has consistently behaved as a better person that the one we first knew.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Well I wouldn't say that Kate's act of giving up Aaron was entirely selfish. I seem to recall her move to do that was only after she started getting hounding by some unknown person (I am assuming Widmore) for paternity samples.

Posted by: Curious1000 | May 6, 2010 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Oops ... meant to say her actions weren't entirely alteristic. Heh, coffee ... I need more coffee this morning :)

Posted by: Curious1000 | May 6, 2010 7:33 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, Fate, I don't buy that [Kate has not redeemed herself]. Coming back to the island was a entirely selfless act. She could have kept Aaron and been happy that his natural mom was out of the picture. She came back for Claire and Aaron and has consistently behaved as a better person that the one we first knew."
Posted by: MeriJ

I believe you misread my post. I was saying that Kate, not being a candidate, could be used (e.g., as a hostage) by MIB to force the candidates into a situation where they can be killed. It was Claire I was saying has not redeemed herself. She did kill the guy from the temple she captured when she found Jin, in cold blood with an axe. She has not changed much though she shows signs of changing. Sayid also changed, so it seems the "sickness" caused by MIB can be reversed, and I'm guessing the cure is love, love of friends in his case. I think Sayid's turning was due to seeing his friends in danger. How he came to think Jack was "the one" I'm not sure, but it looks like that is what lead him to sacrifice himself to save the candidates.

As for Kate having been redeemed, she did leave the island without Claire in the sub. She has improved, but she is not at the level of Jack in working for the good of others. She still cares more for herself than for others in many cases, her love for Aaron being the rare exception. And I think she is not capable of being totally selfless, like Sayid, and this is why Jacob did not make her a candidate. That lack of status now endangers the candidates, as Widmore proved by saying he would kill her if the candidates did not cooperate. I'm sure MIB will use Kate in the same way. Maybe, when that happens, she will somehow redeem herself, but I doubt it.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 6, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

How he came to think Jack was "the one" I'm not sure, but it looks like that is what lead him to sacrifice himself to save the candidates. - posted by Fate1

My strong feeling, at the time Sayid said that, was that he knew because Desmond must have told him Jack is "the one."

Also regarding Kate, I'm not a fan, but she tried to get them to turn around the sub and go back for Claire. I predict Kate will be going the way of Alex Rousseau-Linus before this is over.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 6, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"Speaking of the hospital, I'm pretty sure that orderly will be fired for not wheeling Locke outside" - posted by SamFelis

Actually I was thinking--why is he being released so soon? He was hit by a car and required spinal surgury. It seems a remarkable recovery. But as we seen before, everything in LA X moves 100x quicker than in real life, and the timeline for one episode doesn't match another episode. Also, maybe he doesn't have health insurance.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

After Claire says that all of them (on the sub) are dead because the sub sank, MIB states that "not all of them" (meaning the ones on the sub). He probably knows this because he can't leave the island, the cork is still in place, even though all the remaining candidates were on the sub. At least one must have survived. He said he was going to finish what he started, which means kill the remaining candidates, but I'm not sure he knows exactly who that is yet.

He somehow knew that the sub had sunk, which means he has some power to discern that, perhaps he can see/talk to dead people/spirits like Hurley, and one of them told him.

MIB probably never believed Sayyid about killing Des, but he didn't care enough at that point since he was enacting his plan to kill the remaining candidates. He knows this plan failed, so now he has to get someone to kill the remaining candidate(s).

My guess is that MIB has already got a back-up plan.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

On Kate Austen:

Fate, you're right, of course, that I misread your post. Sorry about that!

Still, I don't think Kate has only been selfless regarding Aaron. She transfered her love for him into empathy and love for his natural mother, Claire, who had been left behind. A leap like that requires a pretty high level of humanity, in my experience, at least.

Aside from threats from Ben's lawyers, she truly felt Claire and Aaron should be reunited and broke her parole agreement to go back to the island to rescue Claire. For that, she would surely spend the rest of her life in prison upon returning.

Her focus since returning to the island -- and in her LA X incarnation as well -- has been on helping Claire, plus that one detour to look out for Sawyer.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

My second post supporting Kate was diverted for "review by the blog owner."

Now, Liz, that's just petty!

(Just kidding, of course...)

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Very interesting. I wonder how long it will be before that missing post is cleared by the WaPo. I don't want to repost it, but you'll know it by the first line:

"One thing that makes Kate not entirely likeable, I think, is that..."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

In the pilot, Kate and Jack are talking about the crash and Jack is explaining how it happened. Kate asks how he knows and he replies that he took flight lessons before and "it wasn't for me." With Lapidus dead, and the sub sunk, will Jack be forced to fly the plane?

Posted by: potomacviahawaii | May 6, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

So... just how many people did Widmore bring with him on that little submarine, anyway???

Posted by: MrDarwin | May 6, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Janine1:

I've seen every episode, own all the DVDs, and read several columns about the show. And no, I couldn't place it either. (I have a great memory for some things, but obviously not for everything.) Really, no need for the attitude.

************************************

You may be the #1 Lost fan in the world, but are you getting paid for it? These two [Jen and Liz] are and to miss this -- and other obvious items in previous episodes over this season -- has left me unimpressed because of episode recaps from previous seasons.

Posted by: SamFelis | May 6, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

PortlandMaine:

1) I like your theory that Sayid knew Jack was "the one" because Desmond told him. Desmond seems to understand everything that's happening. And, we still have yet to see what else Desmond told Sayid while he was with him.

2) When Locke and Claire were standing on the dock, Locke says "The sub sank." and Claire asks "So what, they're all dead?". That's when Locke says "Not all of them". So, I took that to mean that he did know that some of them managed to escape the sub. I do agree with you that he also knows that Sayid didn't kill Desmond and that's probably who he was marching off to "take care of" because he can't kill the sub explosion survivors....except Kate.

Given that this episode was titled "The Candidate", does this mean that Sayid confirmed that Jack is in fact the replacement by saying he's "the one"? Or, I guess it could mean that Jack is meant to sacrifice himself to save Desmond. I'm still going back to the lighthouse episode and the name Wallace on the sun dial which was paired with the number 108 (which is the sum of "the numbers", incidentally). It would make sense if that was Desmond except his last name is Hume.

Posted by: linswilliams | May 6, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I liked the scene when the music box was playing "Catch a Falling Star" while the two of them looked in the mirror. (Mirrors are important in LA X, showing us that it is a reflection of OT). But then they didn't know the meaning of the song, so I felt jerked around a bit. Christain Shepard in the original timeline (OT) sang the song to Claire when she was little and it meant something to her (she wanted her son's new parents to sing it). Also I liked the ominous version of the song playing in "Sundown" after Smokey killed all the Temple people.

But it means nothing special in LA X. Perhaps because MIB (the Fallen Star) isn't in this world.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"My husband just asked me, "Who do you think Alison Janney will play next week--MIB's mother?" And then it all became clear to me: OMG, ALISON JANNEY WILL BE MOTHER NATURE AND JACOB AND MIB ARE HER CHILDREN SNOW MIZER AND HEAT MIZER!!! After all this time, it all makes sense.
Posted by: PQSully

PQ, I'm coming into the comments late this week but this has already been linked to by Liz and Jen in another chat they had before this episode aired. It was in the article about Evangeline Lilly.

Posted by: dojemc | May 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

SamFelis:

Different people notice different things.

As you say, they've played that Catch a Falling Star melody many times, including the dark, dark scene when MIB was leading his new followers out of the temple after slaughtering everyone. But I have to say, even being sensitized to the history of its use on the show, I didn't recognize it either. And I love music. It's just not a tune that sticks with me.

I also wouldn't assume that Jen and Liz get paid much to do this blog. The Celebritology gig is their main job. Lost fans are intense, but we're a tiny audience for the Post, I would guess.
.
.
Anyhow, that song being used in the temple scene is what got some of us wondering if MIB is literally a fallen star, as in a Lucifer-like being or an asteroid-delivered entity from space.

That the writers used the song for the temple exodus also led some people to wonder if it implied a deeper connection between MIB and Aaron, although I've not been impressed by most of the connections that have been suggested -- that the boy MIB keeps seeing in the jungle is Aaron, etc.

But it is interesting that he kept Claire with him at the submarine dock. And that thing about his own mom having been crazy like Claire, unless that was just BS he was feeding Kate. Plus, as I recall, Kate had a visitation by "Claire" in 2007 urging her not to bring Aaron back to the island. Add that to the Season One stuff Claire was being fed by mystics, and it does feel like they swapped Walt for Aaron in the island mythology.

I guess we'll find out next week.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I meant to say, "switched Aaron for Walt," but I imagine you already knew that...

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

>" And then it all became clear to me: OMG, ALISON JANNEY WILL BE MOTHER NATURE AND JACOB AND MIB ARE HER CHILDREN SNOW MIZER AND HEAT MIZER!!!"

dojemc: she was joking.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Wallace does kind of stand out. Most (if not all) the other candidate names were ones used by various characters we've seen in previous episodes, but this one is not, and it is a very important number.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

108 Wallace - Lostpedia article:

There are quite a few entries at Lostpedia about people who have been named Wallace. The one below struck me, but I feel compelled to note that the writer might have chosen his or her words to make the parallels seem closer than they really are. It's been 35 years since I read A Wrinkle In Time.
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"Charles Wallace was a character in A Wrinkle In Time series of children's books. He was a psychic child in stories about time/space travel, changing the past, series of "might-have-been" events, turning point events battles between the powers of good and evil, a large evil cloud called The Black Thing, and an evil intelligence called IT who controls people's minds."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

We all do seem to focus on different things in the shows, which is the cool thing about this blog. I've discovered connections to things I didn't notice originally.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

**MIB had the Losties (except Sawyer) and us utterly fooled. Wouldn't you agree?**
OK, I'm late to the party, but NO, HE DID NOT HAVE ME FOOLED. And I do not have any hesitation in saying it -- I TOLD YOU SO.
Posted by: ooyah32 | May 5, 2010 4:08 PM |

Ooyah, when watching this show I immediately thougth of you. You were the only one who loudly (and a bit annoyingly) kept proclaiming that MIB was pure evil. I was holding out for a twist based upon the ambiguity (that I perceived) in the story line. So, I bow down before you. You nailed it : - )

Posted by: dojemc | May 6, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Also there was a William Wallace who was chair of moral philosophy at Oxford who wrote a lot about Hegel and Kant. So it's a famous name like the others (Faraday, Hawking, Milton, Hume, etc.) but does it mean Desmond? And even so, the name is crossed out--so he should not be a candidate any longer according to what we've been told.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I think someone already mentioned this, but MIB can't turn into Smoke monster in/over water. That's why Sawyer wanted Jack to push him into the water.

MIB has crossed water in human form (that's how he got between the main island and Hydra island, and possibly out to the freighter). But perhaps also he can't become Smokey when he gets wet. That means the rain on the island has added significance. Remember Locke could predict when it was going to rain. I wonder if we ever saw Smokie when it was raining (in the last 5 seasons)? Also of course, if Smokie is trapped in human form and the island is at the bottom of the ocean (as in LA X world), he would be trapped without need for a jailor.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 6, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"The final scene fo Jin and Sun was SOOOOO "Titanic," only Celine Dion crooning was missing. STILL ... perhaps the saddest LOST episode ever, including the death of Juliet. Posted by: chuckbloom

Can't disagree more. I still think the saddest, and best, death scene was the death of Charlie. I couldn't help compare his death to that of Sun and Jin and the latter simply doesn't compare. Though, the final shot of the drifting away of their hands was well done. Unfortunately, I think that Sun's character was wasted for the last two years on the series. At least Jin got to hop around in time and live in Dharmaville. Sun just followed Locke around fairly aimlessly.

>" And then it all became clear to me: OMG, ALISON JANNEY WILL BE MOTHER NATURE AND JACOB AND MIB ARE HER CHILDREN SNOW MIZER AND HEAT MIZER!!!" dojemc: she was joking. Posted by: MeriJ |

I realise the last part was a joke but the first part about Janney being Mother Nature is supposedly the truth.

Posted by: dojemc | May 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

linswilliams said: "Given that this episode was titled "The Candidate", does this mean that Sayid confirmed that Jack is in fact the replacement by saying he's "the one"? "

I think definitely yes.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 6, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

"As for MIB wanting off the island, he does not want to get off the island with anybody. He's doing what he told Jacob he would do after he told Jacob he would someday kill him. When Jacob said another would take his place MIB said "Then I'll kill him too". Once all the candidates are killed MIB will be free to leave the island, and he won't need a plane or sub. The cork will be gone." Posted by Fate1

Fate1. Great observation and analysis as usual. I absolutely agree this is what MIB is doing. I also think the business that he needs to finish is to go back, with Claire, to finish off Des. That is where he will run into the surviving Losties.

Posted by: dojemc | May 6, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"As for Kate having been redeemed, she did leave the island without Claire in the sub. She has improved, but she is not at the level of Jack in working for the good of others. She still cares more for herself than for others in many cases, her love for Aaron being the rare exception. And I think she is not capable of being totally selfless, like Sayid, and this is why Jacob did not make her a candidate. That lack of status now endangers the candidates, as Widmore proved by saying he would kill her if the candidates did not cooperate. I'm sure MIB will use Kate in the same way. Maybe, when that happens, she will somehow redeem herself, but I doubt it."Posted by: Fate1

I think this is exactly when Kate will redeem herself. She will sacrifice herself for her friends when put in the position of being the potential cause of their death. Rather than see Jack or Sawyer killed (I'm leaving Hurley out of this theory), she will allow herself to be killed. I think Jack will be the last lostie (candidate) standing; the others will be killed. Think about it, everyone has to die or MIB can use the survivors to go somehow go after Jack. It will be then as it has played out on the island for eons; folks show up; they fight; they die; only Jacob and MIB are left; it happens again. They all have to die. (Unless Lapidus somehow survived to fly them off the island then disregard all of the above : - )

Posted by: dojemc | May 6, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"I realise the last part was a joke but the first part about Janney being Mother Nature is supposedly the truth."

For reals? I had no idea! When my husband said Janney might be MIB's mother, my imagination just jumped to the Mizer Brothers and their mom Mother Nature. How crazy!

Posted by: PQSully | May 6, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

>"I realise the last part was a joke but the first part about Janney being Mother Nature is supposedly the truth."

Yeah, after hitting submit I realized you were figuring she hadn't seen the E. Lilly interview, whereas I had assumed her joke was playing off the interview.

But it was mildly presumptious of me to say anything at all.

Note to self: just because you think of something doesn't mean you need to share it out loud... Hello.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"I realise the last part was a joke but the first part about Janney being Mother Nature is supposedly the truth."

For reals? I had no idea! When my husband said Janney might be MIB's mother, my imagination just jumped to the Mizer Brothers and their mom Mother Nature. How crazy!

Posted by: PQSully | May 6, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Oopsie, double-posted. Sorry, folks.

Is MIB Aaron? He has a crazy mommy, and folks tend to leap around in time on the island. Whether he is or not, I think MIB will end up being someone we know; otherwise, why not give him a name?

Posted by: PQSully | May 6, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

That's so unfair. They won't post my 2nd comment supporting Kate but they post PQSully's comment TWICE. The comment that reveals me as an idiot. It's just not fair.

Actually, I used a word in that post that rhymes with witch -- to quote a former first lady -- which is undoubtably what got it pulled for review. Wish me luck.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 6, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Careful MeriJ. We don't want to lose you from this site : - )

Posted by: dojemc | May 6, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Kate gets shot and has a hole in her shirt, right? But later scenes show no holes in her shirt. I know the island can heal skin, but a cotton t-shirt?

Posted by: onemann | May 6, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why so many people on this site have focused on Aaron as significant to Lost. He's a relatively minor character that has contributed to the storyline development of Claire and Kate. But people want him to be MIB, the candidate, the island boy or even God. Did I miss something?

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse

after some thinking (and in contrarty, somewhat, to my post about Ji Yeon above)... i'm agreeing with KevinAF about Aaron.

lost fans tend to want to over-analyze everything and find the smallest connections to everything. hey, its fun, and it's just how we are : )

BUT, to play devil's advocate on my own post here, there certainly was an extreme importance placed on him back in S1 and S2 with the physcic and with charlie needing him baptised. so, i won't ultimately be suprised if me and KevinAF are wrong.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

sorry, to clarify- regardless of his importance or significance, i definitely do not think he is anyone (mib, god, candidate, etc..) other than Claire's son.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

I am extremely slow to understand and think things. So I have a few comments and questions.

1) Bernard gave me the impression of knowing Jack and whatever the story is with the LAX timeline. He helped Jack only indirectly, probably because if he had explained Jack everything it would be a "violation" of the LAX/Hawking rules.

2) Did the French group arrive to the island before or after the purge? I think it was before because when Ben kidnapped Alex the Others were under the orders of Charles Widmore. But if this is correct, how is it possible that Rousseau never talked to the Dahrma people?

3) In the 70's, when Sawyer's group were members of Dahrma we never heard anything about the smoke monster. Presumably he was trapped. But the monster was free at the time of Rousseau's arrival, which I think was between the incident but before the purge. Could the incident have been the event that released the smoke monster from its trap?

4) Kelvin taught Desmond that he had to treat himself with a vaccine to avoid contagion or something. What was the illness supposed to be? Was it the infection that the Others talk about or was it something else? If it was what the Others refer to as the infection, how did Kelvin know about it? Probably because Radzinski told him. But how did Radzinski know?

5) Clearly after the purge Ben and the Others let Radzinsky and Kelvin stay at the Swan. One possibility is that it was convenient for the Others, because Radzinski and Kelvin, and later Desmond, kept pushing the bottom. But another possibility is that Radzinski at that time was working for the Others, and never told Kelvin. It would explain point (4).

6) Why is it that in one scene it is day, and in the next one it is night. And in the next one it is day, etc.? None of the characters seem to notice.

7) It used to be that to move from one part of the island to another it took time; sometimes days. Now it's all fast, and a little distracting.

Posted by: for33 | May 7, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

for33-

your post reminds me exactly of the conversation me and some friends have every Wednesday night for cheap beer/wings night!!!

lots of great, unanswered questions, that, sadly, may end up un-answered... or left to our interpretation.

although, as cliche and oversaid as it is - there actually is still a lot of time left. i remember in the S5 finale when you realized Locke was the smoke monster (as much as i suspected that to be the case), that one scene still "answered" a lot of questions. "answers" come slowwwww on this show, and over time, with plenty of holes in the story so that people like us will still be here a year after the show is over going "so THAT'S why pregnant women died on the island" .... : )

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

2) for33:" Did the French group arrive to the island before or after the purge?"
Probably before the Purge-Ben looked younger than when he appeared in the purge episode. Horace Goodspeed's spirit told Locke in a dream that he was dead for 12 years in 2004, making the purge December 19th, 1992, which also makes sense for when Kelvin arrived (after the Gulf War of 1991), one of the last of Dharma.

The French arrived in 1988. So Rousseau co-habitated with Dharma for 4 years. her account of what happened has continuity problems with the rest of the storyline- that she changed the transmission 3 days before her daughter was born (in 1989), and her recording being transmitted makes no sense to us right now. So the inconsistencies can be explained away that she was crazy like Claire and delusional, and avoided contact.

3) for33 "In the 70's, when Sawyer's group were members of Dahrma we never heard anything about the smoke monster."

Dharma had a sonic fence around the barracks in the '70s. I thought it was to keep the monster out, but maybe not.

4) For33: re vaccine/sickness/preganancy problems-- all seem to be related to something that happened. I believe it could have been "the incident"-- radiation released of some sort, or movement of the island during the 1980s/90s (not known to us) may have had some effect on people.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Aaron will be significant either. I was just riffing on how they use the Catch A Falling Star theme and how odd it was to suddenly associate it with MIB after years of using only in connection with Aaron.

Early on, they seemed to be planting the seeds for some kind of golden child scenario with both Walt and Aaron. There were indeed hints that they would be important. I think the writers just went in other directions. They planted a lot of seeds, and watered some, and allowed others to dry up.

This next episode should explain a lot, at least regarding the Jacob-MIB mythology.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 7, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

6,7) For33: Both on the island and in LA X everything seems to go quicker than real life or than in previous episodes, I believe it's because the show is just rushing to conclude. The day / night incongruities is just that the filming times probably result from the same thing.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

KevinAF

Thank you very much for your answers. I had overlooked Rousseau's mental state, which probably was responsible for her confusion about the date in which she recorded the message.

I think you are correct about the dates: 1988 for Rousseau's arrival and 1992 for the purge (as per Horace).

While the sonic fence was protecting Dahrma in 1977, it not necessarily was for the monster. I suppose they could have used them to stop the Hostiles/Others. If the monster was running free at that time, perhaps they would have built protections for the other stations. The flame clearly had some land-detection system, which is how Radzinsky realized that Sayid had enter the perimeter.

Finally, was Dahrma in the island trying to master time traveling so that they could go the past and "correct" things so that the numbers could be changed and thus save the world? The numbers are supposed to be the input or the output of the Valenzetti equation, which according to some lore predicts the end of the world as long as the numbers don't change. Please don't ask me.

Posted by: for33 | May 7, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

for33-
yes i do think that Dharma was working on time-travel. but, i don't think the Valenzetti Equation will amount to much in the grand scheme of the story. the VE was a part of the ARG "The Lost Experience" which was used more for promotional reasons then to further the actual story of the show itself.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

yeah- the VE has not been a part of the TV series as far as I know. Like some have suggested, Hurley may have read the numbers off for the radio transmission in 1970s (1977?)for some as yet unrevealed reason. Perhaps he was told to do it by Jacob.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

yeah- the VE has not been a part of the TV series as far as I know. Like some have suggested, Hurley may have read the numbers off for the radio transmission in 1970s (1977?)for some as yet unrevealed reason. Perhaps he was told to do it by Jacob.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

double postings again,

I hope that next week, when we get Jacob and MIB's backstory we will find out some more details about when MIB may have been trapped, out of commission, or playing various dead characters.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

i try to stay open-minded and neutral with my theories, no matter how strongly i feel that i may be right...

BUT... that HAS to be hurley reading those numbers when Rousseau's team lands on the beach. i re-watched that part more times than i can count, and the voice sounds so obviously like hurley its not even funny! i hope Kevin's right and we see that Hurley did indeed read the numbers back in 77, thus starting the whole chain of events leading rousseau to the island, then the losties, etc...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

> "that HAS to be hurley reading those numbers when Rousseau's team lands on the beach."

Jere1570: The thing is, it could have been Jorge Garcia (Hurley) reading it, based on a potential twist the writers were considering. But they might not have gone in that direction after all.

I look forward to hearing how they wrote the series over time.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 7, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ:
since i'm a good 2 for 283 on theories i've had over the past 6 years... ur probably right. Jorge probably just stepped in when the voice-actor they were going to use to read them came down strep throat. :)

although it's hardly a theory, it just sounded way too much like him, and it seemed like they almost wanted us notice it. but you're right, things do change directions over time, such as Michael Emerson only being hired for 4 eps back in season 2... how different our little story would be if that plan had stuck!!!!

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

"I hope that next week, when we get Jacob and MIB's backstory we will find out some more details about when MIB may have been trapped, out of commission, or playing various dead characters."Posted by: KevinAF

I agree. That would be a good opportunity to tie up all the Jacob/MIB loose ends, particular, who was "trapped" in the cabin and why and how. I also want to see if they show the building of the Egyptian statute. Maybe we'll even get a post from Bevjim this year if we find out that Jacob/MIB descended from Egyption
Gods : - ) (Still wondering why we haven't heard from her/him this year.)

Posted by: dojemc | May 7, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Re: bevjims - My wife has a theory that bevjims was a plant on the blog by the Lost producers to foster various theories. I would hope not, bevjims had some very interesting thoughts about the show.

Posted by: AlfromAlexandria | May 7, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Dojemc:

this is directly from wikipedia (although you can't always trust it)

"While the destruction of the four-toed statue of Taweret was revealed in the ninth episode of the final season, Lindelof has hinted that whoever built the statue will not be addressed."

i, too, was interested in the building of the statue. and, i, too miss bevjims!

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"Hey, that reminds me. Wasn't Ben supposed to fall in love or some nonsense during the May 4 episode? That so didn't happen.
Have to think that was a leak designed to purposely throw us off track." Comment by Jen/Liz in the 2 pm chat

How devious this would be of LindeCruz. I had read that Ben was supposed to meet someone at the hospital. I assumed he was accompanying Locke there but we saw no sign of Ben in this week's episode. I guess there is still time for Ben to find love but I, at least, was sure mislead.

Posted by: dojemc | May 7, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

"My wife has a theory that bevjims was a plant on the blog by the Lost producers to foster various theories. I would hope not, bevjims had some very interesting thoughts about the show."Posted by:AlfromAlexandria

Interesting theory Al. I find that hard to believe because Bevjims and I actually had some back and forth correspondence on this site (as did others with her/him). I suppose it would be pretty cool if I was conversing, if you will, with a Lost producer's plant, but I somehow doubt it. Anyway,he/she did have some pretty novel and interesting theories (as do many others on this site). Just curious why she/he's no longer around. Perhaps its going to be one of those Lost mysteries that never get answered : - )

And Jere, thanks for the wikipedia blurb re the statute. Maybe we won't see it being built but maybe we'll see it brand new at some point next week.

Posted by: dojemc | May 7, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

This may have already been mentioned earlier, but Doc Jensen on the EW site pointed out that if Jin had left Sun to die alone, he would be burdened by that forever, and it could strain his relationship with his daughter, whom he chose over his One True Love. And it probably wouldn't be a picnic for Ji-Yeon either, once she found out what happened and had the feelings of guilt over being chosen over her mother.

Also, as far as anybody in Korea knows, Jin has been dead for years, and Sun's plane crashed recently and she's probably dead too (since what are the odds that someone is in a plane crash twice and survives both times?) So Ji-Yeon was probably already considered an orphan.

As far as Mr. Paik is concerned... well hopefully Mrs. Paik is a bigger influence.

The whole situation is still lousy. Hopefully the Sideways world helps out.

Posted by: trackrick | May 7, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

For33:"6) Why is it that in one scene it is day, and in the next one it is night. And in the next one it is day, etc.? None of the characters seem to notice. "

When Jack went to talk with Flocke, I thought it was a production mistake. But it continued to happen in the candidate. Either it is really sloppy production or something significant is happening to the island. I wonder if Jughead has somehow knocked the island off its mooring aka the donkeywheel and the island is jumping through time. If my memory is correct, only the freighter and 815 people( and Juliet) experienced the time jumps not the others. I wonder if a similar phenomenom is going on.

Posted by: adam_peritz | May 7, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I hope Sideways world WINS out. We can just say goodbye to the OT, along (sadly) with LOST in a couple of weeks.

I think Sun put Mr. Paik in his place when she was back in Korea, so I'm not worried about her daughter.

I'm also OK with not finding out who built all the ancient stuff on the island. Most of it did seem to be Egyptian, but all those ancient peoples are pretty much a mystery to us anyway. From the preview it looked like Roman or Greek times, since the Others liked to use Latin its probably Roman.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 7, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

AlfromAlexandria said: "My wife has a theory that bevjims was a plant on the blog by the Lost producers to foster various theories."

Really? I thought Fate and Mia were the plants...

Nah. Just joking.

But for what it's worth, I remember seeing bevjims commenting on a hard news article as well. So plant or not, he or she is probably a real Washington Post reader.

For the record, however, Richard did not turn out to be an Egyptian god.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 7, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

yeah, funny that richard just ended up being some guy from the canary islands.

my most strongheaded, disproven theory was since the end of S4 i swore to my friends that the Black Rock ended up stranded inland because of a previous "island move"... where the island blooped down under water and then when it popped up in it's new location, i thought certain that it was just gonna come up where the black rock was sailing... always thought that would be/look cool...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Jere1570 has started a great thread: "Lost Theory Fails" -- aka, "my most favoritest theories that have already been proven wrong, wrong, wrong."

One of mine just recently (after Jacob died and Illana's people attacked MIB) was that MIB/smokie had no control over his reaction to physical threats because he was at heart a programmed defense system. If attacked, he attacked back.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

I also started the Jacob/MIB as "dual aspects of one entity" thread -- at least on this website. Which no longer appears to be likely. But in truth, that was just idle musing based on the cave scene with MIB and Sawyer.

Have I mentioned my theory about them being in Purgatory?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 7, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ-

i will stop now. i could write a book. :)

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 7, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

I would read your book.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 7, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"that HAS to be hurley reading those numbers when Rousseau's team lands on the beach. i re-watched that part more times than i can count, and the voice sounds so obviously like hurley its not even funny! i hope Kevin's right and we see that Hurley did indeed read the numbers back in 77, thus starting the whole chain of events leading rousseau to the island, then the losties, etc..." - posted by Jere1570

If Rousseau's team heard the numbers transmission at sea, and it was made by a time-traveling Hurley, does that mean the transmission that Leonard and Sam Toomey heard in the Pacific, decades before, was Hurley's transmission as well?

I think the producers said they are done with the numbers, but I really hope after they knock out the Jacob/MIB backstory next week, we get a whole lot more Dharma before the end.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 7, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

"Re: bevjims - My wife has a theory that bevjims was a plant on the blog by the Lost producers to foster various theories. I would hope not, bevjims had some very interesting thoughts about the show."
Posted by: AlfromAlexandria

I seriously thought the posters here were smarter than this. I mean, they knew Locke was the man in the obituary, knew Eloise was Faraday's mother, etc. Over the years I have seen some very good analysis of this show, but it seems no one can figure out what happened to bevjims.

Its actually very simple for Lost analytical types. We all know that numbers are important, especially with Lost. If you take the letters in bevjims and replace the number of those letters in the alphabet you get:
2, 5, 22, 10, 9, 13, 19
When we remove the 5 for the 5 seasons bevjims was posting we have
2, 22, 10, 9, 13, 19
If we then subtract each number from the one next to it we get
22-2=20
10-9=1
19-13=6
Putting these in reverse order, for extra security of course, and adding back the 5 we get:
6, 1, 20, 5
I'll leave it to the reader to decode that into a name. I would just point out that, like Jacob, bevjims never left.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 7, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

"I hope that next week, when we get Jacob and MIB's backstory we will find out some more details about when MIB may have been trapped, out of commission, or playing various dead characters."
Posted by: KevinAF

I'm sure egyptian gods are involved :-)

But I'm not sure Jacob or MIB are gods. MIB said he was once a man like Richard. I tend to believe that. But humans were pressed by ancient gods into service at times. Some were enchanted. Considering the roman dagger used by Sayid to try to kill Locke, and Richard to try to kill Jacob, I think both Jacob and MIB were romans, probably soldiers (did you see Jacob pound on Richard?). I think they stumbled upon something in Egypt, which turned MIB into smokie. Jacob was given powers and asked to watch over him, the island created to be MIB's jail. Jacob is the cork keeping him there. But Jacob and MIB seem to have a relationship of some kind. Brothers I think or possibly the same person, like The good and evil Captain Kirk (:-D).

I think, in the end, we will feel sorry for MIB, that he did not ask for what happened to him, and will see him as a tragic figure that has to be destroyed or contained on the island. And I think who will be the candidate is still up for grabs:
-Des knows what is happening
-Jack is a believer
-Hurley is starting to believe and already has some powers a candidate will need.
-Sawyer must now believe that Jack is correct, they cannot kill themselves, only each other, and are immune from direct attack by MIB.

No more redshirts left so expect a lot of drama to come with less bloodletting, but like Highlander, there can only be one left in the end. We saw Sayid and the Kwans die in one episode. I think we should expect one or two more to go next episode. That's Sawyer, Hurley, Jack, or Des(yes I think he's a candidate). Any of these dying will make for a sad episode. Lots of sadness to come...

Posted by: Fate1 | May 7, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Fate, you are too funny! Numerologists unite!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 8, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yesterday I wrote about being day on one scene, night the next scene, day on the following scene, and on and on.

adam_peritz wrote about suspecting it probably meant something.

KevinAF thought it was that the show was rushing on towards the end, with no time to slow down.

Well, could it be that as we're getting to the end, as the duplicates in the island timeline and the LAX time line are being eliminated, the time on the island is moving backwards faster and faster, while time in LAX moves forward faster and faster, until both timelines converge?

Posted by: for33 | May 8, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"6, 1, 20, 5 I'll leave it to the reader to decode that into a name. I would just point out that, like Jacob, bevjims never left." Posted by: Fate1 | May 7,

But that doesn't explain the "1" in FATE1. So, nice try : - )

Posted by: dojemc | May 8, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

dojemc,
The 1 was just to throw everyone off. Ya know, like those episodes with the Dharma station that would produce a gas that would kill everyone on the island that Daniel and Charlotte were trying to either set off or deactivate? I hope they explain that because it was a good two episodes of diversion.

for33 wrote: "Well, could it be that as we're getting to the end, as the duplicates in the island timeline and the LAX time line are being eliminated, the time on the island is moving backwards faster and faster, while time in LAX moves forward faster and faster, until both timelines converge?"

Hmmm, backwards time. I'm not sure what that would look like. I haven't noticed anything unusual with the days or time. They are not spending any time showing evening hours like they did when the Lostees were on the beach, probably because the story is moving fast now to get to the finale (why six seasons was not enough time I really don't know). I mean, if time was moving backwards, how would Sayid have blown himself up? Wouldn't he instead have appeared out of a flash of light and smoke?

And the word "duplicates" is interesting. This assumes two identical individuals. I don't think that's what we have here. These are the same people, who are living twin timelines. Otherwise there would not be the bleeding of memories (and small little cuts) into sideways world.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 8, 2010 9:50 PM | Report abuse

"The 1 was just to throw everyone off. Ya know, like those episodes with the Dharma station that would produce a gas that would kill everyone on the island that Daniel and Charlotte were trying to either set off or deactivate?" Posted by Fate1/Bevjims?

How did that diversion work out for Daniel and Charlotte anyway? They're dead and gone but living happily (?) ever after in Sideways world. Hey, maybe the gas did escape which is why they died. It caused Charlotte's nose to bleed so badly she died and it caused Daniel's mom to kill him before he was born.

Obviously, I kid. I think we'll never get an answer to this diversion.

Posted by: dojemc | May 10, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Fate1/61205/bevjims: I think Jack is the candidate. Sayyid said so (how he knew, we don't know), but the writers don't have time for many misdirects. It's possible they threw that in the scene because they did't have another way to tell us. It seems they think it's important for us to know that Jack is the one.

Will any candidates die tomorrow? I thought it was going to be backstory to help explain some things.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 10, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Portland -
yeah, kevinAF and i were speculating that maybe he read the numbers when they were back in 77 with LaFluer and Miles in Dharma, but they just didn't show us that yet. so, yeah in theory it would have been Hurley that Toomey and Rousseau heard that set the whole thing in motion. another time loop.

meriJ- glad to know i have a potential fan! maybe they will include my Lost Theory Fails book in the next Lost book club!

and sorry, i've been missing since Friday- did i miss something with Fate1 being Bevjims... or are we just posting in his/her memory? : )

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 10, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

> "did i miss something with Fate1 being Bevjims... or are we just posting in his/her memory?"

The latter. There can be but one Fate1 and one Bevjims in this timeline.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 10, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

The latter. There can be but one Fate1 and one Bevjims in this timeline.
Posted by: MeriJ

Nope. bevjims must be in the island timeline cause I'm definitely feeling sideways. Its popcorn and a beer for me now while watching Lost, but in my bevjims days I was on a Nordic Trak watching Lost for an hour. Believe me, sideways time is SO much better than island time.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 10, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

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