Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
Posted at 8:49 AM ET, 05/24/2010

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: 'The End'

By Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly
Lost

In which Jen and Liz agree, not to say goodbye, but to move on after four years (and six seasons) of analyzing TV's biggest cult hit ever. Read along, then join them at noon ET for the "Lost" Hour live chat. In the meantime, visit "Lost" Central to brush up on your island back story or relive it all over again.


Ready to 'move on': Jin (Daniel Dae Kim), Juliet (Elizabeth Mitchell), Sawyer (Josh Holloway) and Boone (Ian Somerhalder). (ABC)
Photo gallery: The end of 'Lost' | Your finale predictions | Poll: Satisfied with finale?


Jen: And then we came to the end... and what an end it was. Liz, I know that emotionally, you were in the same place I was tonight, which can be summed up with a psychological term I like to call: bawling. Teary during the recap, weepy when Jin and Sun both remembered their island lives while looking at that ultrasound, a complete WRECK when Claire gave birth and Charlie -- bless him -- realized who Claire was. Hell, I got teary during the Target commercials, though that was mostly from laughter. (The First Alert/smoke monster team-up was an unparalleled stroke of advertising brilliance that even the geniuses at Sterling Cooper would have to envy, assuming they have the ability to flash-forward from the '60s.)

But before we make ourselves cry again, which is inevitable, we need to address the question I think everyone is going to have in the wake of tonight's finale. Were they dead all along? Or did they just die after the island was destroyed, sometime after Hurley and Ben -- or as I like to call them, the Dream Team -- took over Jacob duties?

Liz: Here's what I think. I was, like you, utterly rocked by this finale. We were gifted with 2.5 hours of utterly cathartic, satisfying emotional release as we watched characters we've come to love over the past six seasons find closure. As I think I said in the instant reaction we posted last night, I cried every single time one of our characters had a reunion/breakthrough and I -- like you and the rest of the fans -- needed that release. So, yes, in terms of ending the story for the show's characters, this finale may go down in history as the best ever (I'm talking to you, David Chase and hope you were taking notes).

But, in terms of closing the loop on the mythology, the plot lines, the mysteries -- well, we didn't get all the answers. We knew we wouldn't, but we didn't really get any. And now we have a new question. Which shouldn't suprise any die-hard "Lost" fan, I know. But it's a big'un. Were they dead all along?

Much more after the jump...

The message: What does dead really mean anyway?

Jen: I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they weren't dead the whole time. Here's why. Christian, Jack's dad, told him that everything that happened was real. I take him at face value on that. Second thing: Jack's neck was bleeding throughout the sideways flashes. And on the plane in LA X, he looked out the window and saw the island under water.

So I think Jack was dead through the entirety of season six, but not the entirety of the series. And that something else went down on the island -- something that Hurley and Ben played a key role in -- that sent the joint under water. Am I high after watching TV for the past six hours or does this sound feasible?

Liz: Well, I think you may be on to something there. But possibly also a little high. Because I'm not convinced -- at least about the island being under water. The shot we saw of the underwater island was in the season opener, which was part of sideways world which we now know was not a real place, but as Christian Shephard explained, something our Losties collectively created to find each other.

So I'm thinking that the island never does really end up under water. Why? Because Jack saved the island, which in turn saved the world. Though not him or any of his Oceanic flight 815 friends, sadly. But Hurley and Ben must have died at some point for them to show up in sideways so that is a bit of a poser. Great, another question!

And if season six was about Jack realizing he was dead, then when did he actually die?

Jen: But see, this is why I'm right. Ben and Hurley couldn't be in the afterlife unless they, too, bit it. All of season six, essentially, was about Jack finally realizing he was dead. And once he realizes it -- since one could argue that this show was, in many ways, from his perspective, because his eye was the first to open -- that's the end. But here's another question. What happened to the people on that Ajira Airlines flight that soared above Jack's head?

Liz: I was just about to ask the same thing. Because if everything that happened was real then we need to assume that the Ajira flight Frank flew off the island didn't make it -- because Kate and Claire are there in the First Church of Dead Folks at the end. And what of Penny? Did I miss her death?

Jen: Great question about Penny. Aside from the emotional satisfaction of seeing her with Desmond -- which was, indeed, satisfying -- she shouldn't have been dead at all. Re: Ajira Airways -- I assume they crashed. In fact, the fuselage we see for a few moments after the series ends could very well have been that plane.

Liz: Yet I didn't see Frank or Miles in that church.

Jen: No, they weren't. A lot of people were not there. None of the freighter folks, from what I saw. No Michael, no Walt, no Eko, no Ana Lucia...

Liz: Also, does the fact that sideways was basically a purgatory exempt LindeCuse from claiming for years that the island was not purgatory? Since it was, after all, not the island?

Jen: Well -- and I'm basing this on what Matthew Fox said on Jimmy Kimmel's post-finale show -- maybe it wasn't purgatory in the strictest sense. Fox talked about religions that believe there's a span of time -- brief or lengthy -- after a person dies when they have to accept their death and see all the people they loved (e.g. have flashes) before they can move on. And perhaps that's what this was.

Liz: Oh, and speaking of missing people, don't forget Nikki and Paolo. Maybe we're meant to assume that those who were missing had already come to terms with their deaths and had already moved on.

Jen: No Nikki and Paolo. Rip-off!

Liz: But maybe we should talk about these conspicuous absences from the church: Ben, Dan Faraday and Charlotte.

Jen: Ben actively elected not go inside. My theory: there's going to be a Ben Linus spin-off.

Liz: Well, here's my personal theory re: Faraday -- or Dan Widmore if you prefer. He was clearly not ready to move on because he was stuck in the '80s wearing that skinny tie and Ilana's black vest.

Jen: Well, that's highly plausible. I mean, for obvious reasons. But hold on. Is it possible Faraday's death was undone by the Incident? Or no?

Liz: I don't think it was. And here's why: Eloise Hawking, who is also there in purgatory somehow and extremely loathe to let her boy go. She was visibly shaken by the idea that Desmond might take Dan along with him. So I think the guy is indeed dead. But, for some reason, he and Charlotte haven't yet had their moment and neither will be ready to move on until they do.

Jen: All right, still wrapping my head around that. Is it possible that only the people in the church have "moved on"? I'm just asking. That might explain why some people from sideways world were not there.

Liz: Yes, I think that's it. That those that were ready boarded the flight/church for the great beyond. Those that weren't ready, hung back and -- as I said above -- I think we need to assume that some others (Michael and Walt) had somehow already moved on.

Jen: Now, let's note one other thing. At the risk of sounding smug, I have to point out something: I called the ending. And I'd swear on a stack of Bibles smack inside that church they all visited during the finale that I did not read any spoilers or know how this thing would close. Granted, maybe it wasn't that hard to predict, but dang it, I have to take credit for being right about something after all these years.

Here's what I predicted: "It all ends with a close-up of our protagonist, Jack Shephard, who presumably has done something undeniably heroic -- like saving the island -- but was gravely injured in the process. The camera closes in on his eye, the same eye that snapped open in the very first moment of the 'Lost' pilot. We see it open again, but then, slowly, we watch it close. And with that, "Lost" closes, too."


Liz: I dunno Jen. You were hanging out with Damon and Carlton earlier this week. God only knows what they revealed to you.

Jen: They told me nothing. I swear it!

Liz: Seriously, though, well done. You did indeed call it. I think we can safely say you won the prediction battle, but later today we'll post some other predictions from readers that also came close to the mark.

One more thought I'll throw out there, too: I'm still not buying that the entire season Jack was coming to terms with his own death. I think he died after saving the world, as we saw tonight. Another reason: when Christian Shephard was explaining things to Jack he said something like "The most important time of your life was with these people." Note he said LIFE, not death. So while we're blurry on exactly when Jack and some of the others bit it, I think we need to banish the thought that they died in the crash.

Jen: Oh, completely agreed. I think that point will be debated for a while, but we at least seem to be on something of the same page. Maybe now it's time to talk about what happened on the island?

Meanwhile, on the Island

Liz: Basically it was a straight pick up from where we left off last week. The protectorate of the island had been handed to, or seized by, Jack from Jacob and the mission was to prevent MIB from leaving. By the way, I felt a little shortchanged by the fact that we never saw Jacob die or evaporate into the ether.

Jen: Yeah, it was like they just traded places, and suddenly Jack was all man of faith standing in the baptismal water, telling Sawyer he felt pretty much the same. Another interesting change-up: Ben, who seemed all poised to go back into psycho mode as of last Tuesday, calmed down. Perhaps because MIB's powers started to weaken, and his hold over Ben's actions did the same?

Liz: It would seem so, though it was also somewhat implied that Ben planned to doublecross MIB all along -- what with the walkie talkie link to Miles and all. Which makes me think he really did kill Widmore of his own volition as retribution for the death of Alex. So, he was again the man capable of doing bad things in service of what he believed was right.

And kudos to the guy for bouncing back so quickly from having a large tree trunk fall across his torso.

Jen: Good point about the walkies. And yes, he was trapped under something heavy and managed to recuperate quite quickly.

I have to say what captivated me a lot about the island action was what I'll call th Spielberg effect.

While the temple kinda bugged me earlier this season, when Desmond was lowered into the golden light, it -- like the temple -- was very Indiana Jones. But this time, in a good way. All the light, the supernatural special effects -- even the moment when the Ajira flight takes off to that soaring Giacchino music -- had a very Spielberg-blockbuster vibe about it to me. And I mean that as the highest compliment.

Liz: It was well done. I did feel as if I was watching an actual feature film at some moments. Though, and I'll try to say this as delicately as possible, there was something a bit -- well, primal and earthy -- about the method used to save the island. Just insert this big long shaft into this hole in mother earth and, well, I think you get the point.

I know, I am probably the one person in a million whose mind would go there, but it did. And considering the show's focus on fertility in the past, I just thought I'd mention it. Because holy fertility rite, Batman!

Jen: Phallic symbollish, you mean? My mind is clearly just as messed-up as yours, because I had the same thought. But obviously it was supposed to be the cork keeping the liquid bottled up.

Liz: Yes. But the fact that both of our minds went to the same place makes me think there may be something there.

Jen: Spielberg and sexual symbolism aside, the most tense island moment for me was when Jack and MIB leaped across the cliffs toward each other. At which point MIB's stabbed Jack, finally explaining why his neck had been bleeding in sideways world this whole time.

Liz: That scene was pretty epic. The way Jack practically flew at MIB was totally reminiscent of a sweeping martial arts epic like "Crouching Tiger"

But that makes me think that as scary as it was that the plug, or whatever it was, got pulled on the island's light source for a brief time, it did give Jack the window he needed to kill MIB. Because it seems that as soon as the light was extinguished, MIB was suddenly able to be mortally wounded -- not just by Jack, but also by Kate's gun.

I'm not as convinced, though, that it had to be Desmond that pulled that plug. He wasn't so much a weapon -- electro-magnetic-defying properties or not -- as a guy who was willing to be lowered into a cave.

Jen: Well, hold up on that score. When Desmond got down there to the heart of the source, he looked like he was about to be fried. Someone without his ability to withstand electromagnetic issues might not have been able to remain there as long as he did.

And I think you're right about that window Jack needed. Which is why when they tumbled out of the cave, Jack told John/MIB neither of them was right. MIB wasn't correct that pulling the plug would destroy the island immediately. And Jack wasn't right that killing MIB would immediately rectify everything either.

Liz: By the way, two guys I couldn't have been happier to see alive: Richard Alpert and Frank Lapidus. And way to go with the misdirection, Jeff Fahey.

Jen: Yeah, what the hell? That dude flat-out lied in that Movieline interview. But I was happy to see him alive, too.

Liz: As predicted (before he totally fibbed about being dead) Frank's purpose was to fly that plane off the island. Though fat lot of good it did him and the others who lifted off with him. It seems pretty obvious that the plane doesn't make it.

Meanwhile in purgatory, errr, sideways world

Liz: But enough island talk. Maybe we should talk about what happened in sideways world. Or, as I like to call it, land of one-thousand tears.

Jen: "Lost' came dangerously close to chick-flick category more than a few times last night. But I loved it anyway. So, first clue in sideways world that people on the island might, at some point, have died? The guy who unloaded Christian's coffin from the truck at the church, where Desmond so kindly signed for it. The name on his jumpsuit said "Bocklin."

Which happens to be the name of a Swiss painter responsible for a piece of art entitled: Isle of the Dead.

Liz: Nice. I'd expect nothing less from our name-dropping writers. And, really, "Charon" would have been too obvious.

Jen: I think the first emotional whopper moment was the Jin and Sun moment. Which also featured the return of Juliet, who was, indeed, Jack's wife.

Liz: Oh, you mean the redux of Sun's ultrasound -- again performed by Juliet -- which sparked the Jin/Sun memory burst and had them both suddenly speaking non-accented English? Yes, that was a whopper of a moment. Sideways was definitely where most of tonight's emotional action went down and where die-hard fans got our payoff in terms of cameos and reunions and where we got to see each main character have his/her life flash before his/her eyes. Which, I guess we're supposed to assume, somehow clued each into the fact that they were dead.

Jen: Yes. At first, I thought only the dead characters were capable of having their moments of realization.

Liz: Except that they were all dead anyway!

Jen: Right, but I didn't know that yet. That's how it went at first --people we know had died on the island, like Jin, Sun, Sayid and Shannon, had their flashes. But I got thrown off by the delivery of Aaron, when Kate also had her realization. In that instance, we didn't yet know she was dead, too.

Liz: Speaking of which, I've already seen some pretty strong negative reactions to the idea that baby Aaron was dead. Which seems to be the undeniable case since he was there with the rest of the souls ready to move on in the church.

Jen: Because it doesn't make sense if the deaths didn't occur until after the Incident? Because he was off the island by then? That is a good point.

Liz: Right. There's the objection to it from a practical standpoint -- since we already saw Aaron age and live with Kate off island before her return. But also, from what I'm reading, the idea of a dead infant just isn't going over well in some quarters.

Jen: That's one of those details that goes in the "pro" column for those arguing in favor of the "They were dead all along" argument. And yes, a dead baby is, um, unpleasant.

That delivery sequence was what really sent me over the edge, though. The look on Dominic Monaghan's face when he recognized Claire was just beautiful.

Liz: I don't think we need to go through every breakthrough moment, lovely as they all were (Personally, I was most rocked by the Sawyer/Juliet moment) but I do think it might be worth pointing out that Jack had a couple of chances to have his memory restored before he finally gave in and laid hands on his father's coffin. He really resisted it.

I thought that it was because he didn't want to not have a son. And he sensed that if he gave in and surrendered to his true memories of his life, that the illusion of David would vanish.

Jen: Yes, let's talk about that. When Locke said he didn't have a son, I was so confused. But it kind of makes sense now.

Part of Jack letting go meant that he needed to prove he was capable of undoing his father's damage. And that means having a son, even if poor David was just a blip in Jack's consciousness.

Liz: Speaking of Jack's father, here's a question: Since we again saw Christian Shephard as a guide -- or as Kate incredulously asked, a "Christian shepherd" -- tonight, should we assume that all the other times we saw him he was himself, a guide leading Jack (and by extension the rest of the Losties) to the next level? Meaning, of course, that he was never possessed by MIB.

Jen: No, and I say that because in the pre-show, they specifically said MIB inhabited Christian's body on the island. But that doesn't mean he did the same thing in the flash-forward, for instance. So he may have been guiding Jack at certain points. His presence in Jack's life certainly influenced his behavior.

One thing I thought they did very well tonight? The editing that allowed us to toggle between the two worlds.

Liz: I want to point out that last week I talked about how teamwork -- and not just the efforts of one person -- would be needed to bring this ship into port. And so I think we were both right: You with your prediction of Jack's death after performing a heroic action and me in predicting that all of the Losties would be needed in some way. It turns out that they needed each other to move on.

And I completely agree about the editing. It was spot on and really -- finally -- tied the two worlds together in a way that we just didn't see before the finale.

Jen: For example, when MIB flew over the cliff, and landed exactly in the same position Locke did when his dad shoved him out of that building way back when -- I thought it was lovely that the moment occurred at the same time Locke regained control of his body in the sideways.

Echoes of episodes past

Jen: And that was just one of many echoes back to episodes past.

I have to say that there were times this season when the attempt to form connective tissue that stretched back to previous episodes seemed, just that: a stretch. But tonight it all felt very organic. While the whole "Lost" creative team is pretty fab, I think having Damon and Carlton as writers on this last episode, and Jack Bender as director, may have had something to do with it. The show was always at its most sure-footed when it was in their hands.

Character-wise, we saw Boone, Shannon, Rose, Bernard, Juliet, Richard, Lapidus and Charlie again. And the little touches -- the wiggle of Locke's foot, which reminded us of him walking on the island, but also of Jack fixing Sarah; the Apollo bars in the vending machine; the presence of DriveShaft -- it brought everything full circle.

Of course -- and I have to say, this boggles my mind a little -- some people watched the finale tonght without ever having seen a second of "Lost." And they seemed to enjoy it, from what they've told me. But man, are you depriving yourself of all the beautiful details by doing it that way.

Liz: I find that really hard to believe because, in some ways, -- heck, most ways -- tonight's 2.5 hour finale was a huge love letter to longtime fans.

Anhow, I know there were a few echoes that were definite winks at fans -- like that Apollo bar -- but what a way to finally close the loop on Juliet's dying words after the incident. Remember, when we were all utterly confused by her "Maybe we could go get coffee?" line as she lay dying in Sawyer's arms?

Jen: Oh, thank you for saying that about Juliet. That was great. And people called that throughout the season, but still -- was nice to see it come true.

Speaking of moments from past episodes -- the church. Did that remind you of the church they went to in "316," the one where Hawking summoned them to explain how to get back to the island?

Liz: Yes, that church should have looked familiar -- unless tonight was your first tine watching. It was definitely the same church where Ms. Hawking held court last season.

Jen: Which is so interesting. That was supposedly where they tracked the island's whereabouts in that basement. But this time, everybody was upstairs. So to speak.

Liz: Yes, and no calculations, no pendulum -- no ruby slippers -- were needed to get our travelers where they needed to go this time.


Two hanky moment: Vincent and Jack. (ABC)

Oh, and as for those cameos, kudos to Damon and Carlton for figuring out a way to make Vincent important without, you know, stretching credulity. He did exactly what a dog would do. He found a person laying in the jungle, hurt, and laid down next to him.

Jen: Oh my God. The dog moment. I was already gone anyway, but that image of that Lab laying down next to Jack gave "Marley and Me" a run for weepiest puppy moment ever.

Liz: I hate to be Betty Bringer-downer, but maybe we should talk about things we didn't like about the show.

Stuff we didn't like -- unanswered questions

Jen: Of course. One thing I didn't like fits into an entire category: unanswered questions. We were well-prepared not to get all the answers we needed. I mean, I'm totally cool with not knowing more about the Hurley bird.

Liz: Though wait! I could swear Damon said in an interview earlier this season that we would find out more about the Hurley bird! I guess he was joking, but dangit, I believed him. He can join Fahey in the fibbers corner.

Jen: I think he was joking. But I also could swear they said we'd know who was responsible for the Dharma food drops. And they didn't tell us that either.

Liz: Nope. And -- despite that phallic cork stopper -- we didn't really find out why fertility was so important to the Others. Not to mention more about Aaron or Walt. Or who built the Tawaret statue and carved all those heiroglyphs.

Jen: Or what happened to Cindy. Or why Scott and/or Steve weren't in the church at the end. They were important, dang it!

I mean, we can certainly speculate about all of this, but a wee bit of hintage would have been nice.

Liz: Yep. Agreed. Maybe Michael Emerson can push for that to be explained in his Ben Linus Spinoff: "Quantum Creep."

Jen: This is the stuff everyone will complain to high heaven about: "You didn't tell us anything." And I don't agree with that. But a little meeting, even a quarter of the way, would have been good, at least on the bigger stuff (see Dharma, fertility).

Also, and this is a big, fat question: what is the island?

Liz: Yep. They could have made with a few more answers in exchange for that and the other extra questions we got (and discussed at the beginning of this analysis).

On an emotional level, I am completely satisfied. Though that may just be the result of having about eight good cries over the course of the two-and-a-half hours.

Jen: Absolutely. Some people will say we were so blinded by our emotions that we aren't rationally acknowledging that the narrative left too many threads untangled. But those people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are wrong.

Liz: Agreed. Because I think that Damon and Carlton did complete the story arcs for the characters. And that, if you go back and read interview with them over the past few weeks (including yours'), that is all they promised.

Jen: But, briefly, should we try to answer that big, fat question: what is the island?

Liz: Sure, assuming that you think the island is something other than what Allison Janney described it as two weeks ago -- the source of life for pretty much the entire world.

Jen: Well, I don't really. But I expect a lot of people are going to question that, and ask whether the island ever existed in the first place. But I suppose those are the people who will argue that everyone was dead all along.

Liz: I think we need to be careful to not forget the light/dark imagery that has been woven throughout all six seasons and heavily stressed during the past month or so of episodes (though was curiously absent from the finale for some reason).

Think about what happened when the plug was pulled by Desmond: Darkness descended on the cave (the light went out) and the island (the storm) as the forces of evil were unleashed. Once the plug was replaced, the light once again prevailed, the storm lifted and all, we assume, was well with the world.

So, in that sense the island becomes the place where that tenuous balance between light and dark is held in check.

Jen: Well said.

So important it gets its own header: Jater rules!

Jen: Forget black vs. white or Jacob vs. MIB. Perhaps the key conflict through all six seasons was: Jater vs. Skater. Apparently, the Jaters win.

Liz: Right, though we may have two more fibbers on our hands: In the retrospective before the finale, Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox talked about how Jack and Kate were so perfectly tragic because they were two people who could work together but were kept apart by fate. They really implied that Kate wouldn't end up with Jack or Sawyer, but there she was pawing him on the church bench as they prepared to "move on." I think you know how I feel. And it doesn't involve any feelings approaching warm or fuzzy.

Jen: Let me just say this. I became more and more ambivalent about this matter as time went on. But part of me always thought that Kate needed Jack to become a better person. He was the man who made her the woman she wished she could be, and Sawyer was the man who helped her continue to be what she already was. So I was happy to see her save Jack on the island, bid farewell, and then take him where he needed to be, inside that church, especially since Sawyer was sewn up with Juliet. And perhaps, since this was from Jack's perspective somewhat, she chose him because that's what Jack needed to move on.

I don't know if that makes fans happy or not, but I was pretty OK with that.

Liz: It would have been poetic justice for her to end up with neither. But, whatevs, I'm too blissed out about Sawyer and Juliet to really care too much about Kate.

Jen: Wow, they really have softened you up tonight.

Liz: Dude, pregnancy hormones and repeated crying jags will do that to a girl. I was so verklempt at one point I was convinced the show was going to send me into labor.

We should wrap this up soon. But first, maybe we should throw out some ideas about the notion of purgatory?

Purgatory

Jen: One thought I had as I was watching the finale, before it was clear as to what was going on -- you know, relatively speaking -- was that everyone in sideways world already was in a heaven of sorts. Turns out they were close, but not quite. But -- and forgive me for being schmaltzy here -- I felt like there was a lesson in that idea of sideways world that the writers were telling the audience that it is possible to find what you need to be at peace right here on Earth even if things aren't perfect. Hell is supposedly other people, someone once said. Tonight, it seemed the takeaway was: actually, heaven is.

Jack always said live together, die alone. As Christian pointed out at the end: "Nobody dies alone, Jack. You needed all of them, and they needed you." So, through Jack's eye, they lived together. And they moved on together, too, even if they technically died at different times.

Liz: Yep. Apparently you need others to live in eternal bliss. Which is much easier, of course, when everyone else you care about is also conveniently dead.

Jen: Speaking of dead ... not to be morbid, but this is the official demise of the Lost dueling analysis.

Liz: Indeed. After four years. If we were in college, we'd have degrees. Advanced degrees.

Jen: I'd also be drunk right now. But alas, I am not.

Liz: Wait, you're not? (Kidding.)

I think I speak for both of us when I say that writing these analyses has been one of the most rewarding bits of "work" we've done in these four years.

Jen: It has been, without question. I can't put into words what a pleasure and an honor it's been to meet here every week and hash this all out. You've been a great sparring partner and a great friend. And I thank you, as well as our readers, who are just amazing, insightful, hilarious people.

Liz: I couldn't be more surprised or pleased by the community that has grown up around these weekly duels. I know it's a small part of "Lost's" larger fandom, but this kind of thing doesn't happen all the time. In fact, I'd venture to say that it may be a long while before any of us -- you, me, our regular readers and "Lost" fans in general -- find an amazing pop culture event like this to rally around again. I'm just glad that we had some small part in what has truly been a phenomenon.

And a small part of me hopes that we can figure out a way to reconvene from time to time -- even if just once a year to mark the finale anniversary.

Jen: Indeed. And now that we've said our thanks -- and can start gearing up for a marathon Lost chat at noon -- perhaps we should let two other people say their thanks as well.

Liz: Oh, without a doubt.

Jen: See you all at noon. And now, our special final dueling analysis guest stars: Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

Liz: Alrighty, Jen and everyone -- see you in the chat at noon. And it'll be lasting more than an hour, so be sure to grab some snacks and hit the bathroom before you park yourself at your computers.

-----------------------------------

More "Lost":

TV critic Hank Stuever: Another 'Lost' theory: No, really, it was purgatory

By Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly  | May 24, 2010; 8:49 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  | Tags:  Lost  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Sarah Ferguson apologizes for selling access to ex-husband Prince Andrew; Brittany Murphy's husband found dead
Next: Another 'Lost' theory: No, really, it was purgatory

Comments

MERKIN, Part 1 of 2

“This is the way the world ends / Not with a bang but a whimper.”
-T.S. Eliot
“Did I shave my legs for this?”
- Deana Carter

So I watched Lost for six years to learn that we all die, some earlier and some later than others? For that revelation, did I need six years of teleported polar bears, a land-locked ship, a smoke monster, a still-mysterious island, tangents into time travel, flirtations with quasi-philosophy, quasi-mythology, and quasi-religion, a primer on the Dharma Initiative, and numerology that went nowhere? Did I need one last anagram? At the end Jack is finally at peace with dog. (You can do the letter transpositions on “dog.”)
Now that it’s over, Lost reminds me of the contrast between The Knight’s Tale and The Squire’s Tale in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales. The Knight’s Tale involves multiple settings and characters (both mortal and metaphysical) and many plots and subplots. Further, it makes interesting comments about the human condition and has some fascinating themes, including one central to Lost: free will versus humans being controlled by forces greater than themselves (e.g., deities, fate, chance, or Fortune’s wheel).
The knight’s son, the squire, appears to imitate his father in the tale the young man tells. The Squire’s Tale, too, involves multiple characters, multiple settings, and multiple plots and sub-plots, but in a nod to the Phoebus/Phaeton myth, the son lacks his father’s skill, and the squire’s story spirals out of control to the point that the other pilgrims ask him to stop.
Now that Lost has run its course with too many unanswered questions and too many questionable answers, its auteurs, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, show themselves to be squires, not knights.
Just because LindeCuse created a work with myriad plots and subplots involving hundreds of characters in multiple settings similar to Charles Dickens’ novels, does not make them master writers like Dickens (despite LindeCuse’s allusions to “Little” Naomi Dorrit, Our Mutual Friend, and A Tale of Two Cities).
Just because they toyed with repeated trends like black/white juxtaposition, close-ups of eyes, parent issues, “getting fixed” slogans, etc., does not make these trends actual well-developed themes or symbols that make Lost “deep.”
Also, just because LindeCuse named characters after famous philosophers (or religious figures) doesn’t mean Lost made profound comments about the human condition or about the nature of humankind.
Finally, just because LindeCuse had the habit of name dropping the titles of books in Lost does not mean the show was as erudite or as highly crafted as those books.

Posted by: MrMerkin | May 24, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Christian said that everyone died at thier own time, but the time they spent together on the island was the most important to them. That's why they all looked like they did when they were on the island. I believe Kate and company got off the island, and the whole island timeline was real. Jack did save the world. Hurley and Ben did work together to get Desmond home. It was just the sideways world that was "purgatory."

Posted by: MReilly2 | May 24, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Liz & Jenn after sleeping on it I think I'm with you. However I wanted to point out that I don't think that the people on the plane didn't "make it" or that baby Aaron died. I think it was implied that everyone died, eventually and that for some it was longer than others, but they all experience their life in the "purgatory-esque" place at the same time. So Aaron lived a full life and was "reborn" so that Claire could move on, and she, Kate, Miles, Sawyer and Frank got off the island and lived a full life before reaching sideways world.

At least that's what I think Christian Shephard was saying.

Posted by: jade51999 | May 24, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Ladies - I don't think you understand what happened at the end. The flash-sideways was a fantasy created by the castaways so that they would find each other before passing to the other side. The folks who got on the plane lived lives we didn't see. Ben and Hurley lived as the island leaders for a period of time that again, we didn't see. Once they all were dead, they had this sideways world so that they would find each other and pass through together. Jack was dead in the sideways but so was everyone else because it wasn't a real place. Jack did die saving the island, it didn't sink and Hurley and Ben oversaw it for an indefinite amount of time. 'Everyone dies, Jack.' This is the line Christian said that put it together for me. And when Hurley and Ben referred to each other's leadership in the past tense, that confirmed it.

Posted by: authorofpoetry | May 24, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I have a mixed opinion about the finale. The character-driven episode was certainly consistent with the series. The writers have always insisted that the mythology and mysteries take a backseat to the character narratives. I understand that.

But the finale just didn't feel...polished nor did it feel true to the characters. For example, why did Sayid end up with Shannon after loving Nadia for so many years? Why was Boone there when he was only on the island for less than a month (and didn't exactly have a happy stay)? Why was Baby Aaron there? Wouldn't Aaron share an afterlife with people he knew as a teen/adult and not as infant (I'm assuming this is why Ji-Yeon, Desmond's kid, and Walt weren't there). Why was Penny there when she 1) never set foot on the island and 2) didn't know anyone in the room besides Desmond? Why wasn't Libby in the room when she had arguably more reason to be there than Penny?

It just felt like a cheap, emotional ploy to reunite everyone together for one last time.

Posted by: Tirade1 | May 24, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Wow. I am so surprised that everyone is so confused about the ending. To me it is very clear. The island is the "real" world. Jack died on the island and Hurley and Ben took over being its protector. The Ajira plane left and presumably made it back to civilization. The wrekage was oceanic 815. The sideways world was a conustruct - afterlife place where characters were reunited once they died. All died at different times, but all died eventually.

Posted by: skitch00 | May 24, 2010 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Yep -- of course the plane makes it. Not only do we see it flying above Jack before he dies... but my understanding of what we're left to assume is that the six who made it off the island on the plane -- Kate, Sawyer, Clare, Lapidus, Miles and Richard... as well as presumably Desmond a short time later... went on to live their lives.

@jade51999, I think that they do all experience the "flash ahead" (since we now know "flash sideways" was bad terminology) in a sense, but I think the experience we got to see was a Jack-centric experience, so we see the characters as Jack knew them.

Posted by: MosesCleaveland | May 24, 2010 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Building off what others said, I think Christian explained it more when he said you go with the most important people to you. For some, that would be people on the island. For others, it wouldn't. For example, Michael already showed his son was more important to him than the Losties when he sold them down the river to get on the boat with Walt. He wouldn't be at the church, but would certainly be with Walt. Walt didn't really spent all the much time on the island and probably lived a long life off the island where other people would have been more important to him, so he wasn't there. Richard was going to die now, so when he died, it wouldn't be with the Losties, but with his wife.

Lost, I think, gave us this answer a long while ago when Mr. Eko died. When he was killed, we saw him walking in Africa towards the sun with his brother. His most important person wasn't on the island, but his brother, so in that instance way back in season 2 we saw the same answer we got here tonight. Which would also make sense as the actor who played Eko wanted back on for this season and the producers couldn't find a way to use him. Why would he be in the church or the sideways world if his purgatory and most important people were else where?

And yeah, as you said, Desmond mentioned Ana Lucia wasn't ready to move on yet, right after she took a bribe. She hadn't redeemed herself yet as the other characters had during the sideways timeline.

So I think the writers gave us the answer to that issue both in this episode and throughout.

Posted by: pdunc32 | May 24, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Michael not being in the church makes sense. Think back a few episodes ago when he revealed that the island whispers came from dead people who couldn't move on. Michael's "spirit" is still trapped on the island, unable to move on with the rest of the Losties.

Posted by: Tirade1 | May 24, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

We've basically been asked to leave what happened to the survivors to our imaginations. The reality of what happened to them off-island would be way too convoluted. Kind of like their first 'return' to LA felt a bit forced and Castaway-like as they had to get reintroduced to society. And I think I'm fine with that. Part of me wants to know how they found a flight path, did they have enough gas, was Kate arrested, was Claire in therapy for years...Not to mention the Dharma food drops, etc.

But for my sanity I'm choosing to just think of Rose/Bernard/Hurley living a quiet existence on the island. There may have been some 'others' still there - I lost track. Maybe its powers sucked in another plane or ship, who knows.

Oh...and how did Jack get out of the cave into the river to watch the plane fly overhead?

Posted by: db_in_va | May 24, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Theory 1 on Ben: Ben did not go into the church because he was not finished with his mortal coil. Hurley said Ben was a great #2, but that does not mean that Ben did not rise to be #1 after Hurley died. Ben's special powers as island protector allowed him to step in the afterlife transitional world.

Theory 2 of Ben: Ben elected to stay because he had not reconnected with his daughter yet. He wants to make sure she is okay first, or perhaps she has not died yet. After all she is younger than the others.

Posted by: swgilbert1 | May 24, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Jen, not trying to be snide or sexist, but though you say you liked the feel of the epi despite its being a chick flick, maybe you liked it because it was one? After all...

Maybe we could do a survey and find out if those who think the ending was a copout are disproportionately male and those who think it was a beautiful ending are disproportionately female.

And I do not accept the sneering argument many are giving in the comments that anyone not drinking all the Kool Aid simply doesn't understand it or doesn't appreciate "character development" and just wants answers to be spat soullessly out of a machine. Straw man. I don't consider the sequence of pat 90-second romantic hookups last night to be character development, for instance.

At heart I think that LindeCuse have managed to pull a bait and switch where they have everyone quarreling about whether season six is consistent in itself and if The End answers all the new SWT questions raised since LA X. Meanwhile, they get a free pass on not resolving any of that show called Lost that aired for five seasons from 2004-2009.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Beautiful episode. Really powerful and true work of art.

My only quip is I did not like the scene of the the empty wreckage running over the credits (not sure if anyone posted this yet) but to me it kind of put it out there the "they died when plane crashed, and went thru island trials/adventures in purgatory/heaven", like when Rose told Jack after Jughead went off "you can let go", they had actually died at that point (like Jimmy Kimmel postulated).

I like much better thinking everything on the Island happened, they saved the world, and all died at different times.

But other than that, best TV show of all time and great ending.

Posted by: gvlahos91 | May 24, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I think a lot can be explained by Christian's statement: "There is no now, here." In other words, the people in the church were dead, but also as Christian said, they did not all die at the same time, some many years after Jack did. Their spirits did somehow gather together to help Jack move on. After years of flashing back, flashing forward, time traveling and flashing sideways, "Lost" finally asked us to suspend our sense of temporal being.

Posted by: AmitDC | May 24, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I agree with commenter pdunc that we don't see people such as Daniel/Charlotte because they're closer to another group of people than they are to our Losties. Daniel with friends with Des, but that's about it for profound connections. So Des was able to assure Eloise that he wouldn't take Daniel away from her.

Same with Michael and Walt. Walt's going to be with a group that has his grandmother, Michael, his mother, etc.

db_in_va, the cave washed Jack out the other side of the rabbit hole. It had done the same thing to MIB's original body.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

The ending is starting to make more sense to me, although I'm still not sure I like it. One thing that Kate said didn't make sense at the time: she said to Jack "I missed you so much." What I THINK this means is that she did get off the island on the
Ajira plane, and had a post-island life without him, so when she met up with Jack in Sideways/Afterlife world she hadn't seen him (in real life) in a very long time.

Posted by: MrDarwin | May 24, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Oh no! After years of reading your recaps and being right there with you, I'm so sad to read that you think they were dead this whole season! Jack died at the end of the finale. The beginning of this season was his journey into purgatory and it ended with him there in the church with everyone "ready to move on." Everything on the Island did happen. Ben and Hurley stayed to take care of it. Lapidus, Richard, Miles, Kate and Sawyer got off the Island and did whatever they did with the rest of their lives, and once folks died (as Christian said, before Jack died and after Jack died) they all met up in that church to move on together. It was absolutely beautiful and a testament to what they all went through together that they would wait for each other. Stunning. Absolutely stunning. Loved every second of it. Except for Boone and Shannon because, seriously? Boone?

Posted by: melindaboyd | May 24, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I think Hurley and Ben's rule of the island has the makings of a great buddy comedy Lost sequel.

I will second that you guys didn't seem to understand what was happening with the church. However, where I was confused was whether the sideways world was an actual reality or whether it was a total dream world. I found it a little disturbing that both Jack and Juliet chose to leave behind their son, particularly as it seemed to be an alternate reality that would persist after the key losties left.

It made sense that Ben would stay behind, he had a lot of bad karma to work off (what with mass murder, etc.) before he could achieve enlightenment.

Posted by: goterps00 | May 24, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I never watched it. Was it any good?

Posted by: dotyr | May 24, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

This is why the US is foundering. So much attention to this drivel.

Posted by: adrienne_najjar | May 24, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

>>

I guess I should have kept reading before running my mouth. :) Thank goodness! I wouldn't be able to stand it if I wasn't on the same page as you ladies!

Posted by: melindaboyd | May 24, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I don't have any long comments, but I really enjoyed the finale, all of it, from 7:00 on.

A few moments that stood out:

...Someone mentioned last week that the finale would fall on Pentecost. Were Jin & Sun speaking fluent English - or were they speaking Korean but Juliet could understand them?

...Vincent, Bernard & Rose. 'nuff said.

...Eloise, when she fearfully asked Desmond if he was going to take her son.

...A few more times hearing "sonuvab!tch!" Loved when Lindecuse did the mashup of Sawyer & his pet phrase.

...Every moment of realization that the characters experienced

... At the end, with Jack in the bamboo forest, I was reminded of the ending of American Beauty - anyone else? Vincent, and Jack's delight in seeing him, was icing on the cake.

..."I believe in duct tape"

Island life reminded me of a really crazy dream, one where weird things pop up (like polar bears) but because it's a dream state, logic doesn't apply and so you accept it until you wake up & try to figure out what it all meant.

I loved every moment of LOST, even the dumb stuff like Nikki & Paolo. I loved that this show was able to take risks and that the networks allowed it to continue for 6 seasons. I am proud to say "I am a Lostie."

Posted by: mat00 | May 24, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Jack's father told him that there is no time in this place, which I believe means that everybody died in their own time. Jack dies on the island and others survived and lived their lives and eventually died. Everyone is living their lives in heaven, but have no memory of the island until they are given flashes to remind them.

Posted by: blees10 | May 24, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

How is Miles's "I don't believe in much, but I do believe in duct tape," not in the best lines poll? Especially since I think it was also a nod acknowledging that they duct-taped some plot holes together.

Posted by: cheryl8 | May 24, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

So although there were a number of survivors of the original crash who lived for up to three years of post-crash biological time (scattered throughout various eras), only seven are left at the end of it to live out their normal (or extended, for Hurley) lifespans:

Kate, James, Claire, Rose, Bernard, Hurley, and of course we have to count Aaron?

Is this correct? Smokey killed the few lingering 815 redshirts like Cindy, Zach, and Emma on the beach in anger after Widmore's mortar attack? The remnants of the original beach group all have died off except R&B?

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

i'm so glad i never bothered to watch this show.

Posted by: ktzmom13 | May 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

Posted by: jayjordan | May 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

If you need something to cheer you up after the finale, check out this EPIC LOST parody: http://blog.digitalfuntown.com/dft-blog/2010/5/23/the-ultimate-lost-parody.html

Posted by: todders | May 24, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

No, they were definitely alive for season 6. And you had it right: they needed Desmond to pull the plug, which made MIB mortal, which allowed Jack/Kate to kill him. But then they needed to put the plug back in. And because Jack did that, the island was never destroyed, and Hurley took over (the "underwater island" was in the LAX scenario -- which we now know wasn't real). So the island was saved, the Jacob/smokey fight is over and the island is safe, and the new "keeper" is a more good-hearted guy who can now make up better rules -- thus resolving the 6-season island conflict. Jack, meanwhile, died happy with the knowledge that he had helped his friends escape as he watched their plane fly off overhead.

Oh, and as to the Kate legal problems: remember, in the OT, she had gone back, gone through her trial, resolved all of that, and was living with Aaron. So when she gets back to LA this time, she can move on with her life with all of that behind her.

The island narrative this week touched me. Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Ben -- could you ever have imagined all of those guys working together as a team a few seasons ago? Back then, it was all about the drama -- who gets the girl, who gets to run the island, etc. But that last hour, there they all are, working together as a cohesive team, trying to do what's best for the island and their friends. That's what really touched me.

I also think they played the Skater/Jater thing both ways -- in life, Kate and Sawyer go off together to the plane; but after they die, Sawyer reunites with Juliet and Kate reunites with Jack.

Posted by: laura33 | May 24, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"There is no 'now' here."

That's the key line to understanding the nature of the sideways reality. It existed outside time (or at least the meeting at the church did). The characters all arrived in the after their real lives had played out--Jack dying on the island as we saw, Kate/Claire/Sawyer dying later after they'd lived out their lives off the island, Hurley/Ben after they'd played out their roles on the island (and Hurley had presumably passed on the mantle of Island Protector to someone else). I thought it was a beautiful twist to wrap things up in a combination sci-fi-ish/spiritualish sort of way. Leaves plenty to the imagination (or a Emerson/O'Quinn/Garcia-based sequel) while providing emotional resolution for the characters and the audience.

Posted by: edwardlahoa | May 24, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

I am still confused about the flash forwards - when the Oceanic 6 returned to the mainland and then went back to the island. What was that? They had lives and impacted other people (Clare's mom who now has toodler Aaron), how does that fit with the purgatory concept? That is my biggest stumbling block.

Posted by: BurkeMom | May 24, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The pairings seem a little bizarre. We've already discussed Sayid-Shannon sticking out like a sore thumb. Why can't he be with Nadia?

Odder is the fact that if we are to assume James, Kate, and Claire all made it back, apparently none of them in their subsequent lives formed any attachments as significant as their connections to Juliet, Jack, and Charlie. In the first case, I can buy it and accept that James remained loyal to Juliet's memory for another 40 years. They were seriously together for three years. But a young girl like Claire is doomed to being Charlie's non-widow because they both had a fondness for peanut butter? Talk about a waste of the next 60 years. She'd might as well have stayed on the island. Ditto Kate.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Thank you, Jen and Liz!

Posted by: nicko | May 24, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I firmly believe that ALL TV series finales should reveal that the entire show was a fabrication in the mind of the autistic son of Dr. Westphal from St. Elsewhere.

The end of the series should show Tommy playing with a toy Oceanic Airliner.

Posted by: octobertea | May 24, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

The flashforward was the real world. The real Aaron was being raised by his real grandmother while Kate went back to get Claire. Presumably they returned and together raised Aaron. At some point of course, Kate and Claire eventually die, and then they are reunited with their formerly deceased 815 pals to go through the waiting room experience of the FST together.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

The sideways world -- I won't use purgatory because that is only a Christian concept and they made it BLATANTLY clear that they didn't mean any one faith -- lives out of time. Hurley and Ben could have lived on the island for 1,000 more years, Kate and Sawyer and Richard and company could have opened up a coffee shop together in Soho. All that matters, narratively, is what happened on the island and specifically to Jack.

Posted by: jf76 | May 24, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

The effectiveness of the finale depended on how religious you are and how invested you were in the characters. From a Lost island mythology standpoint, there weren't many answers. But from a character resolution standpoint, it was very emotional and spiritual.

The end in the church, I thought, was taking place long long after Jack died on the Island. His dad told him that everyone there was dead, some dying before him, some long after. He also said everything that had happened really happened. And the fact that Hurley was there told me it was way way in the future, because he and Ben were done being caretakers of the Island light at that point so Hurley could leave too. Hurley used past tense when he said Ben "was" a good No. 2, and Ben said Hurley "was" a great No. 1.

So I took it that Jack died while the plane carried all but Hurley, Ben and Desmond away. What happened for the rest of their earthly lives we don't know. It was hinted that Hurley would let people leave the island (Ben said Hurley didn't have to do it Jacob's way). I wonder if Hurley made Ben immortal like Richard. Sadly, Ben wasn't ready to let go at the end.

Regardless, the church scene was way in the future after all of them had lived the rest of their lives and died. The whole Sideways reality was just a world they had created so that they could reunite in the afterlife and make their final journey together.

I didn't take it at all that they were dead at the beginning of the series. I took it that they had to wait for all of them to die before they could see one another again. As evidence, Christian's statement that everything really happened and Kate's statement to Jack about how much she had missed him. That showed that a lot of time had passed since they had said goodbye and kissed on the Island... so much time that they had to have their memories rekindled by Desmond in Sideways Reality.

And this is just me, but I feel like Hurley would have been the last one to die and set the whole memory thing going in Sideways world, because he was taking care of the island and would have lived longer than the rest of them. And in Sideways world, he was one of the first to get his memory back and started helping Desmond.

Am I off base here?

Posted by: DudeAbides1 | May 24, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

So, in the final scene, the key to understanding Lost wasn't Jack's eye. It was Vincent: this was a six-year shaggy dog story.

These Lindecuse guys have been dining out for a long time on the presumption that they had to be very clever to someday pull together all the puzzle pieces -- the mythology and literary allusion and multiple time lines -- into a coherent picture. Not so clever -- it's clear now they just made weird stuff up as they went along with no idea how any of it fit together and, in the end, just got out before they were found out.

What's special about the island? Who knows?
Why does it need a protector? I dunno.
Who are they protecting it from? Beats me.
Who are the others? Who cares?
What was Dharma initiative? Doesn't matter.
What was Widmore after? Never mind.
Was anybody alive at all? Picky questions.

Perhaps the final word oughta go to Sawyer -- now that was a REAL long con.

Posted by: bdrockville | May 24, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

So here's what I'm not getting: what did the bomb do? What did setting the bomb off in the 1970's accomplish? We were led to believe that it somehow led to the existence of sideways world with the island underwater, but that turns out to be a red herring. And when Miles channeled dead Juliet and let Sawyer know "it worked", what did that mean? WHAT worked? And what happened on the island between the bomb blast and the current day when they're all back together again, fighting MIB? Because as far as I can tell, the bomb didn't do anything at all--or was the bomb blast itself the "incident" that they kept referring to?

Posted by: MrDarwin | May 24, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Oh my god, I had to stop reading this analysis a few paragraphs in. It must be incredibly frustrating to the writers to lay things out so plainly and have so many people still confused. Christian's little speech at the end said everything we needed to know. Perhaps because of the non-linear plot or people trying to fit the story into their preconceived notions of what was going on, it gets lost. Here's what happened, and I don't think there's much to dispute here.

1) Jack dies after re-corking the island. We see him die. There's no mystery here. He re-corks the island, winds up in the river, wanders around a bit, falls over, and dies. Incidentally, Charlie died underwater, Boone died in season 1, and Sayid died in the sub, in case there was confusion.

2) Lapidus, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, and Claire fly off the island, presumably to live uneventful lives in the wider world. They eventually die, maybe at 60, maybe at 40, maybe at 110. Also, Hurley and Ben live on to be caretakers of the island, their first order of business being shipping Desmond off to be with Penny and baby Charlie. Everything does not hinge on Jack. As Christian said, some died before him, some died long after him, but everybody dies.

3) There is no logical contradiction in point 2, above. As Christian said, there is no "now" in sideways world. Just because they all died at different times doesn't mean those different times have to correlate to any specific time in Sideways world. We were set up for this idea in Season 5, with all the time travel.

4) They did not die at the plane crash. What happened on the island was real. The island is a real place. Jacob, MiB, and the rest are all real entities. The Oceanic Six did really return to the wider world, and did really go back to the island. The understanding of this point is crucial to the point of the show, as Christian puts it. They all meet up in the Sideways World because the time they spent together on the island was the most important time of their lives. Not of their afterlives, or of their purgatory lives.

There's still plenty to debate and wonder about, but the four points above have to be taken as the basis for any reasonable discussion. It was a fantastic finale, but I've just been amazed at what people are trying to take away from it.

Posted by: crashinghero | May 24, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I love the analysis and the time you've spent helping us work through the complexities.

I agree with most of the posters... they all died at different times, Hurley/Linus were the protectors, the plane did make it off island... they were meeting in purgatory to all depart for heaven together...

Did anyone notice how Jack's side was pierced like Jesus.

Posted by: hapasc | May 24, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

What about Charles Widmore? Where does he fit into all of this?

Posted by: BethBH | May 24, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Hey guys,

Just for the record, the plane that Jack sees at the end isn't the Ajira plane. It can't be.

The wings of the Ajira model are different from the wings of a typical passenger jet. We saw the outline of a 747 jetliner (or whatever, I'm not an expert on planes).

This can't just be a mistake on the part of the show's FX team. As such, I'm totally confused by this tiny detail.

Posted by: jb1151 | May 24, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Ben would want to be with Alex, the only person he ever cared for more than himself. And he was her most important person too, or up there with Carl. Alex was Danielle's main love too, though of course the reverse wasn't true thanks to her being kidnapped. But possibly she'll be able to accompany Alex just as Eloise can stay with Daniel. Whatever "group" Alex is in will be where you'll find Ben moving on.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

I must admit that I am somewhat in awe of the producers for having accomplished something I was certain would not be possible - one of the best endings to a series imaginable. I was prepared for either and X-Files letdown (ho hum, is that all...) or the ultimate slap in the face, Sopranos-style. What I got was a true sense of closure and satisfaction. Having seen the end, I'm not sure I really care about the answers to all of those little questions that are still out there. Somehow, they all do really seem to be small and unimportant.

I agree with your dueling analysis and with your post-episode comments right after the show except for one, I think important, aspect. I'm not at all sure those who left in the plane died in a crash or any time immediately after take-off (and I certainly don't think Jack, or any of them, were dead all time - which you have dismissed) but rather they lived out their lives and at some point in the future, they met again and remembered in sideways world.

David Emerson was quoted as saying something to the effect that the ending was like a good book, it left you mulling over what happened and what could have been. I have been doing that and will continue for some time no doubt. I think that Kate, Sawyer, Claire et. al. did get off the island and no doubt lived full and complete lives joining those who died on the island in their own time. I am left to wonder what their lives would be like, Kate without Jack, Sawyer without Juliet.

Jen and Liz: I only discovered your dueling analysis during Season 5 and my only regret is that I didn't find it it sooner. Thanks for all your great work. It's been a lot of fun.

Posted by: gary42 | May 24, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

they weren't dead all along, Christian said, like you said, that the time they all spent on the island was the most important in their lives, and that some people died before jack and some died after. so they all appear in the church/sideways world as they did on the island b/c it was most important to them. and I got the impression that Jack died in the jungle at the end - that is when he died - it's not that he was dead all along. awesome, awesome finale - I am emotionally spent!

Posted by: drerae04 | May 24, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

As suspected, seasons 2-5 were largely irrelevant. Ilana mattered even less than it always looked like she would. Dogen and the Temple were more dead ends.

So basically the writers were still flailing hopelessly well into the middle of season six.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: BurkeMom | May 24, 2010 9:58 AM

BurkeMom, all that happened. The six all left the island and stayed away for 3 years. Kate went through her trial, Jack and Kate were together for a while and then Jack spiraled downhill; etc. Locke and Ben left separately; Ben killed Locke to persuade everyone to come back; and they all got on the Ajira Airways flight to return 3 years after the first plane landed.

Then, when they returned to the island, they went through all of the stuff we watched for the past couple of seasons -- splitting returning Oceanic 6 between the two timelines (Dharma in 1977 on the main island vs. Locke landing on Hydra in "current" time), Daniel, the bomb. When Juliet smashed the bomb, that apparently flashed the guys on the main island back to the "current" timeline (ie, 3 years after the original Oceanic flight), because they were back in the same time as Locke and the rest of the Ajira survivors.

So in short, the only thing that wasn't "real" was the stuff we saw in the LAX timeline this season -- that was all purgatory/alternative universe stuff that they main characters were using to work through the issues that were keeping them from moving on.

Posted by: laura33 | May 24, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

You missed a "Best Line"

Miles: "I don't believe in much but I believe in duct tape."

Posted by: deej200321 | May 24, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Cynical - yes, but here it is in a nutshell; and I, for one, am not happy at all with this resolution:

Question: What happened?
Answer: Their life on the island was real, the sideways timeline was not, and was some sort of holding room for those that have died so they can experience their perfect life and reconnect with those that they loved. This is pretty much what Christian Shephard said. Everyone died. Some before Jack and some after – even Hurley, Ben, Penny, the Ajira passengers, etc.; they all died. The church scene seems to be Jack’s final awakening since Christian is his “shepherd”. I can only assume that after each of the other character’s awakenings they also had similar experiences with their own shepherds. I wouldn’t make sense for Christian to be a shepherd for all of them.

Question: What was the Island?
Answer: A place where crazy stuff could happen to the characters that the writers didn’t feel they needed to explain.

Question: What was the light?
Answer: Something that the writers created to make the Island need a protector.

Question: Why did the Island need a protector?
Answer: To perpetuate the Good vs. Evil theme?

Question: Why did the writers need a Good vs. Evil theme?
Answer: Every story needs this, doesn’t it (sarcasm here).

Question: What’s with DHARMA and the stations, Widmore vs. Ben, Tunisia, polar bears, the donkey wheel, the numbers, the Valenzetti Equation, Magnus Hanso, Jacob and MIB’s foster mother, the “rules”, the Tawaret statue, Faraday’s experiments, time travel, and other unexplained stuff that should have had a scientific explanation?
Answer: It wall all just BS to keep us sci-fi geeks interested until the end.

Questions: And at the end why :
1) was Said with Shannon and not Nadia.
2) were Walt and Michael not present.
3) was Boone there.
4) Etc.
Answers: Casting and actor availability/contracts (a deal could not be made in time with Mr. Eko), character identification with fans (let’s face it, Shannon trumps Nadia and people have been screaming for a Boone return – not me), cheap gimmicks (Michael was stuck on the Island).

Final Analysis: We were DALLASED!!!!!!!!! None of the stuff that happened on the island for most of 5 seasons really even mattered to the final resolution! Maybe it wasn’t Bobby Ewing’s dream but it might just have well been. I knew we were heading down this road when Damon and Carlton started talking about how it was a “character driven shown” and that the answers to all the questions we had didn’t really matter unless they were required for the characters’ story lines. COP OUT! They knew they had sent this thing in too many directions to tie it up so they played the religion card.

This is the first – and last – post I’ve ever made for this show, but if someone’s got some better explanation for any of the s*** I’ve been watching for 6 years, I’ll read it. Out.

Posted by: Jon_Hillis | May 24, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

What's special about the island? Who knows?
Why does it need a protector? I dunno.
Who are they protecting it from? Beats me.
Who are the others? Who cares?
What was Dharma initiative? Doesn't matter.
What was Widmore after? Never mind.
Was anybody alive at all? Picky questions.

Most of these questions could be dealt with fairly offhandedly. If the show had come out and said (which it basically did, on a few occasions) that there are places on the Earth where electromagnetism spikes, and that the island is at one of those places, would that explain to you what's special about the island? Do you need a physicist to come out and explain it to the audience like we're in a lecture hall (they also went for that approach through Faraday a couple times).

The sci-fi stuff starts when it comes to what happens when you interact with the electromagnetism. You become the smoke monster. You live forever. You destroy the world. That's why it needs protecting, and who it needs protecting from. The frustrating thing is that the only character in the show who ever seemed to actually know the whys of this situation was Faraday, and he died last season. I don't think Jacob ever really knew what the island was, nor did MiB. Maybe their "mother" did, but that's doubtful, too.

The others are presumably people that came to the island sometime after the Black Rock but before the Army and Jughead. That's a pretty narrow window, so it's actually a fairly precise answer. Presumably, after Jacob denotes Alpert to be his right hand man, Jacob brings people to the island for Alpert to work with, trying to prove humanity's goodness.

The Darma initiative was a group out of Ann Arbor that came to the island to study/harness the electromagnetic characteristics of the island.

Widmore's mission was personal. He wanted to reclaim his position as leader of the Others and important dude on the island.

Finally, see my post above, but yes, everybody was really alive. The Sideways World was the only thing that wasn't real, or at least not of our world.

Posted by: crashinghero | May 24, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

i don't see sayid and shannon as being odd. sayid may have deeply loved nadia but shannon was his soulmate

Posted by: nall92 | May 24, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I completely agree with the third poster (jade51999). That is exactly how I understood the finale. This also explains why Penny was there, etc.

Posted by: bstnredsox88 | May 24, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

After four years of brilliant analysis, I'm surprised that our WP bloggers seem to have misunderstood the ending. We have no reason to believe that the Ajira plane doesn't make it back to civilization. We know Hurley and Ben had a life together as stewards of the island (as they acknowledge outside the church) and I like to think they figured out a way to reunite Penny and Desmond, too. As Christian Shepard notes, there is no "when" in the purgatory world--people died, when they died, and then they came to this middle place where they stayed to work through some of their issues until it is time to move on.

Another thought--1st three seasons offered flashbacks, final three were flash forwards. Nice balance there.

This episode redeemed an otherwise lackluster season. Arguably the most satisfying/emotional 2.5 hours of television ever made. As for some of the unresolved questions (food drop, etc.)--I suspect only the scifi fan boys will care. This was the finale to the show that attracted huge audiences for the first few seasons, not for the more niche show of the last few seasons.

Posted by: seraphina | May 24, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I think the best way to explain the end is that "sideways world" is from Jack's perspective. These are the people he needed to be with to "move on". And as Christian said, time did not exist there so who really knows when some of these people did die. The Island was real and Jack did save it and all mankind. I think the last episode was terrific. It was manipulative in a way, but I've never cried this much for any TV show or movie. The writers were really skilled on pulling you into the story. The intricate plotlines are far more sophisticated than any we've ever seen on TV. Kudos to the writers and to the wonderful actors.

Posted by: ealtaa1 | May 24, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I'm not disagreeing with the ground rule points laid down by crashinghero and others here. Stepping outside the context of the show, obviously the fact that this episode was The End means that the explanation as laid out by Christian is to be accepted at face value.

But looked at from a Lostie's POV, this is just the umpteenth guy telling you he has all the answers. Not that long ago, Richard assured Jack and the others that they were dead on the island, which was hell. Clearly the characters in the church have all now had internal revelations that Christian's words only serve to confirm - Jack remembering that he's dead is the key for him.

But without that - and we as viewers don't have that feeling - Christian's words are no more automatically gospel than Ilana's or Richard's or Eloise's were - we have to rely on the known fact that the show is ending and thus this solution can't be a red herring and must finally be the real one. But otherwise the answer doesn't immediately scream out, this must be the true resolution.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

And...the last scene with Vincent lying down next to Jack was awesome! Best scene of the episode.

Posted by: ealtaa1 | May 24, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Some folks seem to have been confused about the final scenes showing the plane on the beach. I think what we were supposed to notice is that there were no bodies strewn about. If they had all died in the crash, they would have still been laying on the beach. They didn't die, so some of them lived and the others were buried - hence empty beach.

Posted by: gtrain82 | May 24, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

By the end, it was fairly obvious that the parallel world was purgatory.

Posted by: BasicInstinct | May 24, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I think you missed something that explains why Penny, Hurley, and Ben were there at the end. Jack's father said two things: "Everyone dies sometime." And "There is no "now" here." Doesn't matter when they died, they still can be with Jack at the end of the show. The plane could have landed safely and all the passengers lived out their full lives and they would still be there.

Posted by: bill_brooks | May 24, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

UnigueID: I'm a guy. I've spent as much time as anyone poring over the mysteries and minutia and debating them with other intelligent people. But in the end, the people are what matter to me. When you extend the story arc beyond the grave to the afterlife, how important is it, really, who built the statute or even why the Incident interfered with infertility.

The finale brought closure to these lives, individually and collectively. I thought it was beautiful. It was also "realistic" that not everyone was ready to give up their hold on individual ego/personality and move on to whatever comes next.

The finale also worked in the sense that people will be debating it for ages to come, and will continue to have room to interpet many of the mysteries, each in his or her own way.

I thought it was wonderfully done.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

MrDarwin - Setting off the bomb moved the 1977 castaways into the present. So in a sense, it worked. It didn't reset anything but it led to the conclusion we saw on the island last night. At least that is what I think.

Posted by: authorofpoetry | May 24, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Wow, as many others here have pointed out, Jen and Liz really dropped the ball in this last analysis. They completely misunderstood. Basically he analysis of almost every comment on here, has been more correct than the analysis in the post itself. For two people who have been following the show methodically for 4 yrs, I don't know how both could have missed the obvious.

Its not "obvious", as they say, that the plane didn't make it off the island successfully at the very end of the show at all. It did, and those people lived out their normal lives, and then when they died at some point, they all showed up to great Jack in that place they had constructed in their "pre-afterlife" or whatever you want to call it. Jack died in final seconds of the show, but others died at different times. Christian Shepard SAID as much. How did Jen& Liz miss that part?! What, understandably in some sense, made it confusing is that they all look there current age in that church, instead of age which they died. But it would have looked totally silly if they had a 75 yr old Kate and maybe a 60 yr old Sawyer, etc. Obviously they all looked the age at which Jack knew them. Which is why there is no controversy about the "dead baby" Aaron! Aaron probably lived to a ripe ole age sometime until 2080 A.D. or so. But in this place where time doesn't really exist, he appeared as the baby, as Jack knew him on the island.

Its only conjecture, but i believe the hint that they mention how Julia said "Lets go get coffee when she died in Sawyers arms", and she said in the final seconds as she realizes this reality (in the hospital) is not the "real" reality, is very revealing. Apparently, the Losties probably experienced the flash sideways in the final seconds of their life, and when they have the epiphanies in the episode is really when they die. What took in the show, many scenes, apparently takes place in seconds in their last breathes. So, Liz and Jen, you are very wrong. Jack was not dead the whole Season 6. He died in the final seconds of the series finale. And the other losties died at various times in their life after that.

On a final note, as they say, it was an emotionally satisfying episode. It was well done, and a real tearjerker I thought.

Posted by: mily219 | May 24, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

The finale was horrible! The producers don'thave a clue why people watched this show. If they did, they would have gotten rid of Jack and Kate early in the series and focused on the more interesting characters. They dropped almost every major subplot and made complete mockery of the entire series (and their audience)with the "you're dead" side-ways time line.

The thing that really offended me was watching their smug, self-congratulatory attitude in the pre-finale recap show. They actually compared their show to Shakespeare! Please...at the end, this just turned out to be just another television show--and I mean that in the worst possible way. The end of St. Elsewhere was better than this!

Posted by: emilliman | May 24, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

I have two main thoughts. First, thanks to all the posters, last night and this morning, who helped me make sense of what actually happened. And second, to all the bitter complaints from those who felt like they wasted six years- gimme a break! It was only about 120 hours total. What would you have been better off doing- watching another, crappier show?

Posted by: justmike | May 24, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Frankly, I successfully AVOIDED watching Lost for it's entire run. If the comments here are any indication I didn't miss much. It appears to me that following this show was next to impossible, especially if you came in in the middle of it. So, I'm happy to see it go. I have never liked stories that you could not figure out what was going on with out seeing each and every episode preceding.

Posted by: w2bsa | May 24, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Okay, what I took from the ending - especially considering the Ben/Hurley, #2/#1 exchange and Christian's explanation and that Ben said he still had things to work out - was that the Flash sideways were a holding place. And that since people had died before and after Jack, that doesn't mean they all died at the same time.

As for why certain people were and weren't there - they were in relation to how important they were to Jack, since this appears to have been a "Jack" episode overall. So yeah, maybe Penny wasn't super important, but she was the one who rescued them at the end of Season 4 and she also wasn't moving on without Desmond, who was arguably more important. The other key characters present were also important to Jack in various ways over the course of the show, but not everyone was - like, say Faraday and Charlotte. (Ben was important to Jack, but since Ben thought he still had issues to resolve, he stayed behind - everyone else seems to have evened out.)

Everyone was just waiting in the metaphorical church for a while for Jack to catch up, since it was a web of his making. I will say that as nice as it was to see Sayid with Shannon, I would have rather seen him end up with Nadia. That would have been better, and within the construct, would have made more sense. I guess it was just more fun to bring Shannon and Boone back, though.

As for the finale? It was satisfactory from an emotional state. To see all the couples back together really made an emotional wallop. And I know LindCuse have said they saw this more as a character drama with the Island as a backdrop, but damnit, that backdrop is what people became fascinated with. So while, yes, I bawled through most of the finale last night, I find myself waking up dissatisfied. There were really big questions they never answered. I felt that "Mocke's" death was underplayed - I totally expected him to get up off that rock ledge and beat the snot out of someone else again (and the whole - death of "Mocke" = end of thunderstorm was too hokey to be believed). The second half of the entire series - Seaons 4, 5 and 6 - wasted a lot of time on things that went nowhere, when they could have answered a few more questions.

Before this, I never really begrudged LindCuse their "answer a question with another question and polar bear reference" technique. They had learned the vital lesson of the late, great Twin Peaks - if you answer the main questions right away, there's no place to go. But there were too many things left unanswered here, which leaves me feeling kind of meh.

Posted by: Chasmosaur1 | May 24, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I assume someone has already set Jen straight on them not being dead throughout the final season or at the end of the OT?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Sigh. What's the point. If they weren't going to read the comments from last night, which explains everything with a large amount of agreement, they ain't going to read them now. So, I guess they will remain lost.

But just one point -- just because Aaron appears in the church as a baby does not mean that he did not go and live to be 90 years old.

Eternity is timeless, which means that all moments in linear time exist simultaneously AND all individual moments exist in perpetuity. (If you wanted a Christian example, Jesus did not simply die on the Cross 2000 years ago, rather, He is on the Cross, from His perspective, right now.)

When did Lapidus and Miles and James and Kate and Claire and Desmond and (yes) Richard die? Who knows? If we did not see them die, then they haven't died yet, they die sometime after the end of the story.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 24, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Props to Liz or Jen (can't remember which) that said Hurley would be important in guarding the island. So much to digest, I think I'll be chewing over this for a long time, but some preliminary fluff:
- I loved that Richard and Lapidus didn't die like chumps...that had really upset me.
- Jeff Fahey is such a liar! I completely believed him in that interview when he said Lapidus was toast.
- I loved the focus in the first hour on the old banter between the Losties; I had missed that focus this season.
- The Target ads were a complete RIOT; kudos to the marketing geniuses at work.
- I thought the finale was brilliantly acted, and completely unfair to pregnant women with raging hormones who cry uncontrollably with the least amount of provocation. Just sayin'. :o)

Posted by: xmasdaisy | May 24, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

PS -- I really liked the "we were both wrong" angle. After spending all season arguing whether Jacob was good and MIB was bad or vice-versa -- in the end, the producers again chose a third path, and in fact killed off MIB with something like an hour left (I was going, "Huh? Now what?"). It wasn't that MIB was some constrained evil -- it was just that in order to escape, he had to pull the cork and douse the light, which would in turn destroy the island (and probably the world). In the end, MIB died because of the bad things he was willing to do to escape -- because of the choices he made, not because of who or what he was.

And the same with Jacob. Jacob had the right intentions (protect the island). But the means he chose to do that were harsher than necessary -- as indicated at the end, when Ben tells Hurley that he can make up his own rules. Whereas Jack chose to sacrifice only himself; he took the burden on himself to protect his friends. It's all about the choices you make.

In the end, it wasn't about Jacob and MIB. It was about our Losties. So it seems fitting that the last hour was about them finding a way to save the island and each other, without repeating the MIB/Jacob mistakes. To me, the "happy ending" wasn't so much the scene at the church -- it was the realization that the guy with the best heart of all of them was going to be running the island. Because you just know that all the bad stuff that had happened would never happen again with him in charge.

Posted by: laura33 | May 24, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

I thought Desmond was a little "Meet Joe Black"-ish, no?

Posted by: db_in_va | May 24, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Well played Jen.

Well played Liz.

Thanks, for helping us not stay so lost in Lost.

Posted by: HillRat | May 24, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

I do wish I had time the analysis and comments.

Anyway, it was ok for me. A bit anticlimatic but was ok. I'm glad the ending was "happy", nice to see old faces again.

Especially loved the end scene where Vincent laid down by Jack as he died. He was not alone.

Now I'm looking forward to Snakes on a Plane 2, Electric Bugalow

Posted by: hodie2 | May 24, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

@UniqueID:

"I don't consider the sequence of pat 90-second romantic hookups last night to be character development, for instance."

You don't really need to emphasize character development of all the characters in the final episode of a series. Closure is, I think, the more appropriate tool to use, which the "hook-ups" did provide.

Posted by: megman | May 24, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Nice Shaggy Dog theory, bdrockville. I found the writers' focus on the MIB and the use of mirrors in most episodes this season to be particularly telling.

Lost was all smoke and mirrors.

Too bad five seasons of interesting stuff turned out to be window dressing for a lame sixth season and a silly finale.

Posted by: Skeeterrific | May 24, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

**why did Sayid end up with Shannon after loving Nadia for so many years?**

He didn't "end up" with her. The only purpose that Shannon served was to connect Sayid back to the 815/Island people. She was his "constant," who allowed his dead consciousness to remember and for Hugo to tell him that, although he had done some really bad things, he was deep down a good guy.

The church scene does not mean that they all stayed together as a group, happily ever after. Rather, they eventually all "went into the light," where Sayid quite likely met up with Nadia - the real Nadia, and not the artificial one of the constructed Sideways World.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 24, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

A theory for two questions you raised:

If the Flashbacks are looking backwards in time and the Flashforwards are looking into the future then the Flashsideways have to be looking at No Time or an existance that occurs out of time.

You like a lot of viewers have raised questions of why certain characters didn't appear in the Church. For one thing we were told why Michael wasn't there because he is a ghost or a whisperer on the Island. I don't think Michael finds the way off the cosmic wheel so to speak. It could also be theorized that Nikki and Paolo are still on the Island as whisperers too. Frankly I just can't see Mr Eko staying on the Island and I think the only reason why we didn't see him is because the actor didn't want to appear [for shame Adewale!]. But one can find a reason for why he wasn't in the Church from the fact that Ben, Anna-Lucia, Danielle, Alex, Daniel, Charolette, Frank, Miles, Helen and all the countless others -They hadn't let go yet. Characters like Aaron and Walt we assume grew up and lived full lives. Their time on the Island wouldn't be their emotional attachment. When their time comes to meet in the Church they will hopefully meet a group of people who were important for their lives. As for Anna-Lucia, Ben, Daniel and Charolette the sideways universe still had lessons to teach them before they left. When Hurley asks Desmond if Anna-Lucia is going to be joining them Desmond reply "she's not ready yet." It is the same reason why Ben stayed behind. As much as I loved Ben he still did a lot of very bad things. Perhaps he like Anna-Lucia still have some Kharma to work out before their ready to let go of the wheel.

Posted by: dre7861 | May 24, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

"sideways" was a purgatory. a waiting place. it wasn't a time, ie it followed no regul;ar timeline we ever encoutered, but it was a location.

meaning nobody had to wait for anyone, everyone arrived there at the same time in relation to the sideways world, but not in the real world.

the first few minutes of the kimmel show, I feel, hit the nail on the head. The opening of season six, when the turbulence begins. The plane does go down, everything on island was real, but we see instead the time beginning after jack has died. in that nanosecond, all events on the island and after occur and jack is transported to purgatory where he must come to terms with his life. rose tells him "you can let go now".

the whole lost show was a redemption story for jack. season six sideways was him coming to terms with his life and the actions he and his friends took and then passing on.

Posted by: konflikt | May 24, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

PPS -- MeriJ, just wanted to say I really enjoyed your posts last night and this AM.

Also have to say I'm a little surprised by all of the "I never watched it, now I'm glad I didn't" posts. If you don't care about something, taking the time to post how much you don't care would seem to prove the opposite.

Posted by: laura33 | May 24, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Christian said, 'there is no time here.' This means all our losties did indeed die at different times. Boone from the Beechcraft falling off the cliff, Shannon from Ana Lucia's bullet, Libby from Michael's bullet, Locke at Ben's hand (as Jeremy Bentham), Jack from the wounds inflicted by MIB, etc. We don't know when Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Desmond, Ben or even Aaron died, but they did.

People have been asking why Michael and Walt weren't there. Michael is trapped on the island just like he told Hurley. I think people got so caught up in the idea the writers were trying to trick us that the didn't hear the truth. Walt wasn't there presumably because it turned out the island wasn't the most important thing that ever happened to him.

Ana Lucia wasn't there because as Desmond told Hurley, she wasn't ready. Ben likewise wasn't ready, maybe he was waiting for Alex or Danielle (or both) to die before moving on. Or maybe he didn't feel he deserved to be part of the group.

As for what the island is, I think we got this answer from Alison Janney. It's the source of all the light (and good) in the world and it holds back the evilest of evil. I think if the writers had been any more specific than that then people would have found a way to be offended by it. If they said it's the Garden of Eden or Nirvana or somesuch someone would have been upset. This way it can fit whatever your particular point of view may be.

I apologize if this has already been covered by previous comments. I didn't read before composing.

Posted by: jes11 | May 24, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Sideways world wasn't only from Jack's perspective. None of the characters realize they are dead until they have their epiphanies. They all created sideways world as a way to be together again when they died--whenever that happened. But that's the part that doesn't really make sense to me. Whey have all the theatrics? Why wouldn't everyone just go to the church once they are dead and wait for everyone else to show up? Why did they have to create an alternate "reality" to meet up again? Is it just supposed to be a given that when you die, you won't realize you are dead until you are forced into remembering? Yet somehow, your subconscious dead self figured a plan out with other peoples' subconscious dead selves to ensure that you will get that "moment" in which you remember, and then you can move on if you're ready.

I don't know--not really getting it here.

Posted by: BethBH | May 24, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Dude -- the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that Hurley was there for a VERY long time.

As the new Jacob, his purpose was to protect the light, and so long as the light was protected, he would continue to live to do the job (Jacob appears to have been over 2000 years old). Thus, so long as the Island was not threatened, and without having to keep MIB/Smoke Monster imprisoned there, since he was dead, Hurley would just keep on rolling.

Without MIB/SM in the picture, I can see how it would be a lot easier to protect the Island/light from outside threats, such that Hurley might have been the Protector until the end of the world, which might be in 2012 or in another 10,000 years. And if the latter, then the church scene, from a worldly linear time perspective, will not take place until 10,000 years into the future.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 24, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I think you guys are completely wrong.

Everything that happened in island time was real. Sideways world is Jack's version of happy endings for everyone, REGARDLESS of when they actually died. Christian even says something about "Everyone dies. Some before you, some long after you." Time as we know it doesn't apply to the church/waiting room/inbetween - it's all in Jack's mind, as he lays dying.

I want to go back and look at the last clip as credits ran, to see if there are any markings on the plane. However, until then, I prefer to think everyone on the Ajira plane made it out safely: Frank, Richard, Miles, Kate, Sawyer and Claire. Likewise, I think Desmond got home on the sailboat, or throught the donkey wheel with Hurley and Ben's help.

Miles has those diamonds, after all! I'm not worried about Richard, either. He probably has alot of fake passports from all that previous traveling on Jacob's behalf.

Posted by: pfallsgirl | May 24, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I think it helps to understand the "afterlife" ending if you look at it as a "Jack-centric" afterlife. This was created for HIM. Note that others were already in the church, and he needed to enter from the back door. Those that were there were as he remembered them. Jack never met Nadia -- he did, however, remember Shannon being with Sayid, however briefly. So in his entryway into the afterlife, Sayid is with Shannon. Similarly, Aaron is still a baby, as Jack knew him. When Aaron dies, Aaron's entry in the afterlife will include those that were important to HIM, as HE remembered them, and collectively they will help him "let go," just as the people from Jack's island experience helped Jack let go.

Posted by: pietro-secondo | May 24, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I think that you guys are thinking about time in too linear of a way. The only reason to think that they are all/were all dead all season is if they all had to die around the same time as Jack. The whole purgatory thing might have happened outside of time, and so everyone lived full lives, but they all had to meet up in out of time purgatory land to move on together.

Also Ben and Hugo discuss events in the final scene where Hugo comes out, that could only have happend 1, after Jack dies, and 2, If the whole thing were not an illusion and the two of them were on the island alot longer after the events of the season finale.

Posted by: DCDave11 | May 24, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

crashinghero, et al. --

I am a LITTLE frustrated too, and had the same reaction to reading the first few paragraphs, but I'm actually quite pleased that so many of us are on the same page and DO GET IT. So many previous weeks have ended up with a dozen different competing theories. Now, it seems that MOST everyone agrees.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 24, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Liz and Jen and WaPo for Lost Central. A big part of what made LOST special each wasn't merely the show itself, but the community you provided. I looked forward to your analysis and discussion every week as part of processing each show. Namaste!

Posted by: guybrarian | May 24, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

pfallsgirl -- I like your theory. The church being Jack's happy ending for everyone.

So I'm stuck on the image of the plan flying above Jack's head, which I do not believe was the Ajira plane (not the right wing shape). But with your explanation, it makes sense -- Jack thinks, as he lays dying, "They made it! There's the plane."

Your theory also helps me understand why Claire gets to be with her baby in the church, but Sun and Jin don't get to be with their baby. B/c Claire with a baby was Jack's mission, just as reuniting Sun and Jin was his mission. Jack didn't need to see Sun and Jin with their daughter to feel like he had saved everyone.

Posted by: jb1151 | May 24, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I loved it. I agree with everyone who says this concept of linear time is what is getting some people confused. (Hopefully JEn and Liz have been able to "sleep on it" since this analysis).

I thought that the finale had everything in it that I loved about Lost all along. Yes, there are tons of unanswered questions, but it was a great ending to a fabulous show.

Posted by: smynola06 | May 24, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Critical line of the evening was: Hugo to Ben: "You were a great Number Two!"

Hugo remembers his long career as Guardian of the Island with Ben as his loyal sidekick. Thus the island did not sink.

Posted by: csteiger | May 24, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I have to say, I really enjoyed the finale for what it was - closure on our characters that we've come to know and love.

What I am most disappointed with is you two (Liz and Jen). It seems throughout this whole final season that you two haven't truly grasped what was going on, right down to the final moments. For two women who have dedicated their lives to blogging about a TV show, your insight has really dropped off the past few months.

Posted by: soffrin | May 24, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I agree that Liz and Jen got it totally wrong. I think they must have been deliriuous from watching too much TV.

I cannot wait until next season when ABC premiers "AfterLost." It follows the exploits of the new island protector Hurley and his right hand man Ben. They join together all the Losties and Others that were still alive but disappeared in season three. Special guest appearances by Rose and Bernard.

Posted by: buffysummers | May 24, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I agree entirely with Mr. Merkin. So basically, it turns out that for 6 years we've been watching a character show with genre elements, rather than a genre show.
I don't understand why all the bibbity-bobbity and time travel was necessary to get to this point, IE for all of them to come to terms with death (in their own time). It seems to me that all of the extraneous literary references, nifty special effects and daddy issues weren't so much necessary to the ultimate story line as they were an excessive exercise in ego-stroking and "look how clever we are" show boating.
The finale had some truly touching character moments. I particularly liked the Sawyer/Juliet reunion (total shipper for them), and very much appreciated that Kate's awakening was through Aaron's birth, rather than anything to do with Jack or Sawyer. So ultimately, I feel like this was a satisfying ending to some pretty good series of television, but it wasn't a satisfying ending to LOST.

Posted by: pocketbachman | May 24, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I am not sure if the characters were dead all along, died at the end of last season, or died in the church as they "moved on." I think the point is that it doesn't matter...they all had unresolved issues that the island was a place/time (whatever) where they could come to terms with themselves before dying. As far as the light and dark subplot...I think it maybe represented the battle within themselves over good and bad.

I think all the characters physically died in the first episode. Christian Sheperd said Jack was alive and I think the Island was real...but only for them...just like the sideways reality. As the show moved on, different characters were ready to move on and waited in the church. But we were watching only from Jack's perspective.

Posted by: capscoach | May 24, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Um, I hate to be a downer. But they died in the plane crash. The whole story was purgatory. Folks like Ben, Walt and Michael were not ready to move on to "heaven" or a "bright light of electromagnatism" so they are still stuck in "on the Island" until they can settle their past mistakes. Arron died in the plane crash, in Claire's womb. Sun and Jin's baby never really existed.

It's sad, but let's hope we all can come to some sort of personal or spiritual peace, before we "move on".

Posted by: erickoenig10 | May 24, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

OK so I had a very different understanding of the end of last night's finale.
On the island, we have watched a struggle between Jack and the MIB throughout season 6-- a struggle of the balance between good and evil, which we saw last night finally culminate with a little evil (the light being put out) made to serve a higher good-- the ultimate redemption of our characters and the safety of the island.
Jack finally did what he set out to do all along, which was saving his friends and getting them off the island.
In the alternate, sideways reality, we saw that it was truly a space between living and dying, a place in which Jack needed to accept his fate and let go. His neck had been bleeding because the ancient dagger, held by a clearly supernatural being, sliced him right before his demise.
I also think they made it clear that the characters gathered in the church at the end all died at different times in their lives. As Christian Shepard said, "There is no 'now' here." Aaron probably looked like a baby because that is how he appeared in Jack's mind's eye. And I believe the reason Ben did not go into the church is because, as Hurley's #2, someone had to be keeping an eye on the island. When he spoke with Hurley as Hurley was entering the church, he said "you ARE a great #2," to which Ben replied "you ARE a great #1) implying that both Hurley and Ben were still alive and on the island. With Hurley's transcendent state as the new Jacob, it would not surprise me if he had the freedom to move within the light connecting the living reality (events on the island), to Jack's dead paradigm.
As for the importance of fertility and child birth on the island, I felt that came pretty full circle in the episode about Jacob and the MIB. We saw that time moves slowly on the island, which interferes with a mother's ability to carry a child. This is why only women in their third trimesters (Claire, and Jacob/MIB's mother) were able to give birth on the island. Also, I believe Walt was important because the children were "supposed" to be raised by another in order to retain their goodness, and to avoid being tainted by another person's human condition.
My only disappoint is this lack of explanation of the Tawaret Statue, which is related to the Horus/Hurley bird. The island, the location of the scale, balancing precariously between good and evil is of ancient origin, and the Egyptian reference widened the audience's scope of history within the island.
With perspective and attention to detail, I feel the writers did an exquisite job of ending a multi-faceted series of epic proportions. The connections forged between the characters were both vital to the story and completely resolved, while the mythological aspects were tied together in way that could be explained and then reexplained by all kinds of faith (as artfully represented by the stained glass in the church).
Kudos to the amazing writers, and Michael Giacchino for an amazing score.

Posted by: MiamiAlex | May 24, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Liz said, "I felt a little shortchanged by the fact that we never saw Jacob die or evaporate into the ether."

We saw Jacob die much earlier this season, when Ben stabbed him.

Posted by: dc-native | May 24, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

All the characters died at different times and this place where they met was outside of time as we know it.

Posted by: bbcrock | May 24, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

laura33, the "I didn't watch it, now I'm glad I didn't" posts are coming from people trying to look superior to you. They're trying to say, "Neener neener, you wasted your time and I didn't!" without comprehending that for a lot of people, even with the questions at the end, it wasn't a waste of time for them. For the record, I haven't watched Lost and probably never will--I'm just a fan of people picking apart TV shows on the internet.

Posted by: dkp01 | May 24, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Beyond all the constructs, more than anything, I came away from the show with a larger theme, bigger than the island, bigger than the characters, bigger even than "Lost" itself. At the risk of going over the top, the final scene in the church said this to me: The people around you enrich your life so much. They are the "community" of your, um, soul, for the lack of a better word. Stop and look around at your friends, family, colleagues, etc. They make you a better person than you could ever make yourself. There are many of these "communities" in our lives. (In a very, very micro way, there's even one right here. If you've been coming here for a few seasons, you know what I mean.) I don't suppose that's what LindeCuse had in mind, but the best writing challenges you to look at your life and the world around you. And that's what this did to me.

Posted by: walt5 | May 24, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

How can anyone say that Sawyer got Kate? Kate sits alone in that church. It's obvious she chose neither.

Posted by: bbcrock | May 24, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I think crashing hero has hit the nail on the head in both posts. The Ajira plane did not crash and Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Miles, Lapidus, and Richard all flew off and lived out their lives elsewhere. Hurley and Ben lived out their lives, however long they were, on the island and they helped Desmond find his way back to Penny and Charlie. Christian explained what the sideways world was and was, as an earlier poster suggested, Jack's shepherd. Since their island time was the most important time in their lives, this is how they would be remembered by each before letting go.

I want to note that I think Desmond thought that what he was doing was going to merge the Sideways story with the Island story literally, where they had real and happier (for the most part) lives, and not figuratively or in the afterlife. He did not realize that he had seen the afterlife in his electromagnetically induced trance (if that is what it could be called).

I do wish that instead of spending so much time in the temple in the early part of the season, they had spent some of the time answering some of the more vexing questions (though crashinghero has made sense of a number of them), but the finale had to be what it was: a character driven story since we have come to care so much for these characters and needed resolution. Not the resolution that I was hoping for but satisfying nonetheless and probably a better one. I am still crying.

I want to thank Liz and Jen for these past years of analysis, one of the few places I could satisfy my Lost obsession. I knew few who where even remotely interested. The show, the analysis, and the community will be much missed.

Posted by: lostcyclist | May 24, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

My 2 cents: Ben didn't go into the church because he wasn't going to heaven. The church was a gateway to heaven and Ben knew he didn't belong there. He may have earned some measure of redemption in this last episode but they in no way make up for the number of people he killed.

Posted by: ImNotScott | May 24, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I've never liked Jack, never saw him as anything except an arrogant guy who only gets people killed. He redeems himself to an extent at the end, but that doesn't mean I have to like him, or attempts at making the series or the finale Jackcentric.

If anybody is responsible for bringing everyone together in the Sideways World, it is Hugo and Charlie. Hugo, as the new Jacob, would have the "power" to do such a thing and he has always had the most heart of anyone there.

His best friend Charlie, of course, was the most heroic of the show with his sacrificial death (Jack's paled in comparison -- did anyone cry when Jack's eye closed?). And, as Charlie's family said in his vision, he would save them all. And so, Charlie saved them with his death, and Charlie was the first one to know the connection, and he saved the rest by making Desmond see.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 24, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I'm happy to see that most of us agree that all of the island time was really. That we watch Jack die at the same time he's about to pass over, that others (as Christian stated) died long after Jack (Hurley, Ben, the people on the plane).

I don't think the baby should have been in the church just like Jack's fake son was not in the church. Once Charlie and Claire realize the truth about their lives they should also realize the truth about Aaron's life. In fact I believe Claire does get off the island and hopefully raises Aaron with the help of Kate.

I think Ben stays back to connect and apologize to his daughter and help her to pass over.

I think the final scene is of the island at current time (whatever that is but pas tall deaths). There are no skeletons and clearly the island is not under water proving the season six does occur.

Posted by: Suglik | May 24, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I thoroughly enjoyed the season finale, mainly because it really surprised me. I'm curious if anyone else had the same ideas going into it.

Given the substantial amount of 'upper-level' physics that numerous parts of this series was based around, i.e. time/space travel, I thought there was an underlying scientific 'explanation' for the flash sideways. My gut was telling me that the sideways flash was meant to represent the possibility that multiple tangent timelines can exist for any given person. I know there is some crazy theory in physics that suggests that every decision that we make might lead to a 'split' in each person's universe, which as a result leads to multiple (an infinite amount) of tangent timelines (or different lives) for each person. I know this is a stretch but I was very convinced that this was going to the explanation for the flash sideways, but I was pleasantly surprised that I was wrong.

Posted by: pricey13 | May 24, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, BethBH. Some of you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. If this is Jack's purgatory and his father is shepherding him into the afterlife then why are the other Losties having revelations?

I think crashinghero laid out the plot points correctly as the writers intended, but that doesn't mean they make much sense in the internal logic of the show. Much like what has gone on this whole season.

Posted by: Skeeterrific | May 24, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

You sound a little confused about the church reunion because you're assuming it takes place immediately after Jack's death. But you're forgetting what Christian said, some of these people died after you did. So it actually takes place after everyone in the series is dead, including Hurley and Linus, who presumably lived a long life on the island (and referred to it -- "You were a great Number 2", etc.)
Kate also referred to this when she said she really missed Jack. She missed him because she lived our her life after escaping from the island on the Ajira flight.
So here's the sequence: Jack saves the island, dies seeing the Ajira flight leave. Hurley and Linus run the island and presumably get Desmond home. Kate, Sawyer, etc. go back to the mainland and live out their lives. Eventually, everyone dies and then there's the reunion.

Posted by: jonawebb | May 24, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Christian had an important line in the church when Jack asked if they were all dead. He said "yes, some before you and some long after". To me that means that everyone not shown dying on the island got off that island and died in their own time. The sideways world was a gathering place to wait until everyone had died. Their souls needed to go to the next world together.

Posted by: phlappin | May 24, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Laura33:

Back at ya, babe. I haven't read many of the comments yet, but I did read all of yours in both sections (instant reaction from last night and here.) You totally capture my own thoughts on the show and the ending.

As for Kate going home: whether she's in trouble depends on how she arrives (quietly or a big news story about the missing Ajira flight landing at LA X) and how long she was gone. If they realize she broke parole, she's in trouble, at least initially. But there are so many extraordinary circumstances -- finding the missing flight and bring Claire Littleton home -- I would think she'd end up fine.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Christian had an important line in the church when Jack asked if they were all dead. He said "yes, some before you and some long after". To me that means that everyone not shown dying on the island got off that island and died in their own time. The sideways world was a gathering place to wait until everyone had died. Their souls needed to go to the next world together.

Posted by: phlappin | May 24, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

I take the approach to Ben not going in that now that he was awakened he wanted to do the same for Alex and Danielle so they could be together.

Also, in season 3 Richard told Locke that the fertility problems that the Others were researching was a "novelty" that Ben wanted them to work on. It was never important to begin with and I'm glad they didn't spend time on it in the finale.

Posted by: Tudorn | May 24, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

here is something to consider,
when you die, time stops.
so just because everyone is there in the church at the end, it doesn't mean they all died at the same time.
some could of died 20 years later.

time is irrelevant.
so the people on the plane flying over jack as he died, could of survived and lived much longer, and then finally met up with everyone else at the church.

Posted by: MarilynManson | May 24, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I haven't finished reading all of the dueling analysis, or any of the comments, but I had to post what I think happened. Christian told Jack that everything that happened was real, but he also told him that in sideways world (or the waiting room for heaven, as I've come to think of it) there is no "now." As in, time has no meaning there. As well as, (paraphrasing) "Everyone dies sometime. Some of them died before you and some after you." What I think that means is that to our perspective, sideways world was happening right after Jack died on the island after putting the cork back in the bottle, but Kate, Sawyer and the folks on the plane went on to live the rest of their lives in the main timeline, the "real" timeline to quote Christian again. They all meet up in the waiting room whenever they get there, which in some cases was years ago (Boone & Shannon, being the two I can think of off the top of my head) and in other cases could be decades and decades after last night's action. Ok, like I said, I may be essentially repeating what others have already said, but I was getting very frustrated reading the analysis and had to get this out there. Sorry JeLi!

Posted by: talleyl | May 24, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

re: Boone's presence. I think that when Boone was working with Locke to dig out the hatch, that was the only really significant thing he had done. And Boone's death scene was significant to a bunch of the Losties.

Posted by: Ghak | May 24, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

One question that I kept asking myself: if they were in purgatory in the flash-sideways, then why didn't they recongize each other right away? Was it because you had to be in denial or make up a completely different "virtual reality" so you don't have to acknowledge you are dead? Until the finale when they did start having those memory flashes, I think the writers wanted us to consider the possibility that the island was a dream or myth of some kind - that would explain why they didn't know each other as well.

Isn't it possible that Ben doesn't go into the church because ultimately, he won't be going to the "heaven-like" afterlife implied by the bright white light and that he eventually goes to hell or whatever they would call it and he has to come to terms with that? He committed a lot sins - letting his daughter die, killing Locke, etc.

Posted by: tatem | May 24, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to all the smart posters here, I get (unlike Liz and Jen) that the flash sideways was a sort of "waiting room" for the Losties to meet up one last time before passing over (or moving on...). What I don't quite get is, if you're gonna construct a world to spend some last moments with loved ones, why would you spend so much time separated from those very people you constructed a world for (aka Desmond and Penny)?

Also, Juliet's line to Sawyer, "It worked," would have seemed to indicate that detonating the bomb creating this alternate reality (aka the flash sideways), but obviously it did NOT work--it wasn't an alternate reality at all.

Overall, I thought the episode provided the necessary emotional closure, although sort of wussed out on providing any really story wrap-up. I felt like the writers took the easy way out and spoon-fed us some sugar-coated moments (Juliet is Jack's ex-wife in flash sideways--I knew it! Hurley is the ultimate hero--I knew it!) so we'd forget that they really hadn't figured out what the @#$% this all was about.

Posted by: stella117 | May 24, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Okay, so I've been reading your analysis, and you guys keep revisiting the "when did everyone die" thing. I think Sawyer, Kate, and the rest of the people on the plane made it off the island and lived out their lives. They didn't have to die on the island.

The whole point of the church scene was, from Jack's point of view (as you've already said), those were all the people that Jack cared about in life. Those were all the people that he would have wanted there at his own funeral or whatever. They all died at different times, meaning baby Aaron didn't have to be a dead baby. He was probably still living his life, same as Walt (which is why I don't think Walt had to be there). Even if Kate and Sawyer and Hurley and all the others lived out their lives, Aaron and Walt could still have been alive or could have moved on before Jack and the others were ready.

Jack's father said something along the lines of, "life is just made up of moments there is no then and now," or something like that, which tells me that everyone lived their lives (Hurley, Ben, Desmond, the guys on the plane, etc) and died when they died, not on the island or off the island, that didn't matter, what mattered is that everyone in the chapel were people that Jack loved during his life, they were all connected together because of that.

On a side note, Michael was stuck on the island as a spirit, as he told Hurley, he couldn't move on, because of what he'd done on the island. That was his curse.

Posted by: chill | May 24, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

I agree wtih Jonawebb: the church reunion is AFTER everyone eventually dies, after living out their lives. The Hurley/Linus "You were a great Number 2", alone says that, besides what Christian Shepherd said about "important in your life". What you have to do is get your mind out of sequential time (again!) and realize that Purgatory exists outside of earthly time, although it mimics it for a little while, just enough for the soul to adjust before it moves on to eternity. Technically speaking, everyone (on Lost, in reality, typing here, Julius Caesar and his legions) is in Purgatory "right now" - except "there's no now here."

Posted by: fishere | May 24, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"I think the final scene is of the island at current time (whatever that is but pas tall deaths). There are no skeletons and clearly the island is not under water proving the season six does occur.

Posted by: Suglik | May 24, 2010 11:33 AM"

I think this is right. I think the closing shot of the island was the bookend for the opening shot we got at the beginning of the year of the island underwater. They didn't do it to show that no one survived and it was all purgatory/a dream/etc. They did it to show exactly the opposite: the plane did crash (there's the wreckage); some people did survive (no bodies); and they did ultimately save the island (look, it's not underwater). What happened, happened.

Everything else they did thematically was coming full circle (the eye closing, Locke's vision of his feet, a lot of the quips, etc.). Makes sense that the island shot would be another one of those things. It leaves it both a little hopeful and a little open-ended: one story is ended, but the island is still out there, with its light/power/essence/whatever. So who's to say the cycle won't start again, with another crew of flawed people needing to find their way?

Posted by: laura33 | May 24, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

What MrMerkin said at the very top... +100

Posted by: lebowski | May 24, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

A beautiful and satisfying ending to a ground-breaking 6 seasons of amazing television. I am completely at peace with The End, although I now see the world through a new lens ... turned sideways. Thanks to LindeCuse for an amazing ride, and thanks to Jen and Liz for making it even more fun than if I'd experienced it alone.

Posted by: jmcgavin52 | May 24, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Why, in the sideways alternate reality, is John Locke responsible for his own paralysis and his father's severe injuries? What was the point of that?

Posted by: red_hawk1968 | May 24, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Stella,
I got the idea that the "waiting room," as you called it, was an opportunity for the Losties to live out their lives better than they did in life before the island. Of course they might not have lived with all their loved ones, but they lived their lives the right way instead of the way they had to because of awful circumstances or because of the island, IMO.

Desmond met Penny, because she's what motivated him to get to the island, but if there was no island, he never needed to be motivated to get there. Of course this is all guessing and mind reading, but that's what it seemed like to me. Like with John, he was with his fiance in the "waiting room" but in his regular life, because he wasn't with her, he was intent on filling his role on the island.

That's my best guess.

Posted by: chill | May 24, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I agree that the plane probably made it home safely and that Hurley and Ben lived on for some period of time, but there is one problem with that.

These people would have moved on with their lives and met other people. Yes, this would have been a very important part of each of their lives but wouldn't you think that Kate and Sawyer would have found someone else, got married, had a family? In the final church scene, jack/kate and sawyer/juliette are paired off as if they are in a 'romantic' relationship. What about their husbands/wives/children after they got off the island? This series is promoting post life adultery, lol.

Posted by: pricey13 | May 24, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Love the analysis, but I think you are wrong on a few points:
1. Real Jack dies on the island as we saw in the episode; and
2. The plane makes it off the island and the folks on the place live long lives. Just b/c they are in the Church in sideways world doesn't mean they died near to when Jack did. Recall Christian Shepard talking about how "some died before you, others long after." Don't think in linear time!

Posted by: Shawn11 | May 24, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and best line was Juliet to Sawyer re: the vending machine, "Did you read it its rights?"

Posted by: stella117 | May 24, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

My take: The footage at the end is of the original crash (I've heard some speculation that those shots meant they all died in the crash and I disagree); it's just set pieces and doesn't involve the story. Ben Linus is going to wait to "let go" when Alex and Rousseau "let go". The other people in Lost who were not at the church are still waiting, perhaps Ben will help round them up, too. Sideways world was sort of a Purgatory where you gathered those you needed around you to help you realize you had died. Some people died before Jack did (Libby, Boone, Shannon, etc.) and some were to die after (Hurley - was the island's protector for an undisclosed amount of time, the people who got out on the plane and Desmond and Penny.) Hurley's number two man while he was in charge of the island was Ben, and Hurley obviously didn't work the same as Jacob and let people leave the island (Desmond). The source of the island's power is not all that relevant. It had strange power, and needed to be protected but the protectors could make up their own rules for it. Perhaps Hurley would allow more people to live there and not be as harsh as Jacob or his mother. I'm relieved that the time on the island was real and I am completely comfortable with the explaination of the sideways world. It is altogether possible that Hurley's unique abilities (speaking with the dead) will allow him to assist the souls trapped on the island (the whispers) in moving on as well.

Posted by: monkeynavigated | May 24, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

I keep seeing a lot of comments that they have all been dead since the plane crash. While that is an easy theory to come to, most of you forget that half the people weren't even on the plane. Desmond, Penny, Ben, Juliet, and so on.

Posted by: Skyy2226 | May 24, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

The church was Rainbow Bridge.

Where you wait for the people you love most so you can cross over together.

I found last night a bit like eating Chinese food.

Very satisfying at the time, but by the time I went to bed I was going "Wha?"

Posted by: dablues1 | May 24, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

If everyone didn't die at the same time, how do you explain the circumstances (i.e. current automobiles, present day architecture, hospital fixtures, etc) prior to their arrival at the church for Christians funeral? Arguably the series hopped back and forth thru time, but at each hop, they arrived at a fixed point that necessitated the use of artifacts contemporaneous to that era (I.e. The VW bus at the Dharma encampment, the Radio Shack Computer in the hatch, etc,,,).

Posted by: edweirdness | May 24, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

The end felt very "Titanic" to me.

Posted by: iodude122 | May 24, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

It was virtually impossible for the writers to wrap up this convoluted show in a convincing way. I challenge anyone to explain the purpose and meaning of every storyline from seasons 1-6 and how each one connects into the overarching themes of this show whatever they may be. It seems doubtful from the finale that the writers really ever intended to build coherent themes from these varied and in many cases disconnected storylines and how could they. In their attempt to grab the viewers with their increasingly convoluted and sometimes engaging storylines over six years, the writers lost the ability to bring the story to a solid conclusion.

Posted by: humm4468 | May 24, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I agree with what has been pretty much the consensus of all the posters - the island was real, jack died after replugging the light and wandering into the jungle. once he died and closed his eye, the 'timeline' picked up with him on the plane, talking to rose and her saying, 'you can let go now' and then the entire 'sideways'/LAX world was, as people have said, Jack and the rest of the characters coming to the realization that they are dead and meeting up in the 'afterlife'/'purgatory'

as christian said, their time on the island was the most important time in all their lives, so it would make sense as to who was paired with whom - shannon was the one that helped sayid realize he wasnt bad, juliet grounded sawyer, kate needed jack to be a better person, penny was des' constant all along, despite having never been on the island, etc. anyone who wasnt in that room wasnt ready to move on, they still had things to figure out. oh, and libby was there with hurley.

when jack was dying and he saw the plane, it was the ajira flight as everyone has postulated. his friends got off and lived their lives. as christian said, there is no 'now', so their lives were all of different lengths, which is why kate told jack she'd missed him so much. she lived a long life (presumably helping claire raise aaron) waiting to be reunited with jack

once they all died and reached that time to move on, they were 'reincarnated' to the state they were in on the island because, again, that was the most important time in their lives, and thus why they were with the most important people (which explains why aaron was an infant, and locke could walk, etc)

finally, to all the posters that have commented that they've never watched the show and are glad they'd never seen it and 'wasted' their time, fine, mock us fans, but then why are you 'wasting' your time posting on this page about a show you know nothing about, and apparently dont care to know about?! seems like YOU'RE the ones that need to get a life

thanks jen and liz for the always great, insightful analyses - will truly truly miss them. but of course, will mostly miss the greatest show ever to inhabit our lives - thank you damon and carlton, and i guess jj too:-)

Posted by: lostfan29 | May 24, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

humm4468:

I think you summed it up.

I'm not disappointed in the finale, per se. As an episode, it was pretty satisfying - I could see it ending where Jack opened the empty coffin as a regular season episode or finale.

I am, however, disappointed in these last two seasons. LindCuse KNEW they were coming to an end last night. It's not like Joss Whedon's "Angel" that with 10 or so episodes left in a popular season, the show was cancelled and they had to scramble to wrap up story lines.

They chose to add complexity to a show that was nearing it's climax. When they could have taken everything they had and told a really excellent, excellent story.

I've defended this show for a long time. And the writers don't actually owe their audience anything - it's their show. But this one has been kept aloft by fanaticism. While the nods back to previous episodes through the sideways/purgatory round up was interesting and satisfying, I would rather they had skipped that whole construct and wrapped up their story. It's lazy storytelling.

Posted by: Chasmosaur1 | May 24, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

HELP! "Lost" viewers just got totally hosed in Cleveland, Ohio! Our ABC affiliate, WEWS, had "technical difficulties" and we lost every dramatic moment in the 2.5-hour finale because of it! Even down to losing the picture and sound altogether! The bastards have not even apologized!
Please spread the word to other "Lost" blogs. We want some satisfaction for having missed the most important TV event in years! Re-running it a full week later don't cut it!!!

Posted by: VGanger | May 24, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

i'm so glad i never bothered to watch this show.
Posted by: ktzmom13 | May 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
Posted by: jayjordan | May 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse


--As Charlie would say, Sod Off!!

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 24, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

We've seen this ending before. Think "Titanic". Jack [another Jack!] dies during the sinking. Rose lives on and dies an old woman and, yet, Jack and the rest of the dead Titanic crew are awaiting her at Titanic after her death. Rose appears as the young woman she was during what was the most memorable event and time of her life.

That's what we've got here. Yes, everything that we saw occur on the island happened. Jack died in the bamboo grove after re-plugging the well. I'm not sure if Sawyer, Kate, Frank and the rest that flew overhead as Jack was dying made it out alive. What was with the plane wreckage in the last scene? Was that the original flight - or the last flight? That I'm not sure of.

However, no matter WHEN they died in reality, they came into the "sideways world" in the form that they were during their time on the island and their time together. Even if Clair's baby died at age 88 in reality, he appeared to Clair as the baby he was during that time. Just like Titanic.

Jack may have died long before Hurley and many others in the church BUT he was the last to accept his death which is why he was the last to arrive at the church. Remember Freckles saying that he would enter the church "When you're ready."?

Ben wasn't in the church as he hadn't redeemed himself. Sayid redeemed himself when he gave his life to save those on the sub. OR maybe Ben couldn't enter the church because - in the real world - he was still alive and still guarding the island. He and Hurley had an exchange about working together on the island. Hope Ben didn't kill Hurley!

Still many unanswered questions, that's for sure, but the ending truly was "Titanic" - both in scope and in design.

Posted by: JackESpratt | May 24, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Completely crappy waste of 6 years. How can anyone be fine with no explantations for time travel (forwards and backwards!), a smoke monster, near immortality, Jack's dad's appearance on island, a moving island, and so forth! The sideways stuff was just a way to jerk a few tears and cover the writers' embarrassed behinds..."Ooh, they all got to heaven - we don't have to worry about that crazy island!"

Posted by: AlbertHall1 | May 24, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I totally agree with Jon_Hillis' comments. The writers seemed to have painted themselves into a corner with all the mysteries they'd set up and needed a way out. Enter that comical light cave and the trite good vs. evil crap (plus the purgatory thing, which they said they wouldn't do), and out the window with pretty much everything from the first 5 seasons.

Posted by: bluespade | May 24, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion, The last shots of the Jack's eye closing and the wreckage of 815 means that everyone died in the crash and for the past six seasons were Jack's final thoughts before dying. Reminds me of the ending to the PBS production of the Lathe of Heaven.

On an emotional level I thought the finale was ok, a little over the top, but it was good to see the reunions (although I thought they could have invited more characters to the cast party at the end). I also enjoyed the action sequences.

As far as storytelling and production, I thought it was a disappointment, like I think a lot of season 6 has been. Lapidus had to come back and fly the plane:(, but why did they need to bring Richard back. A tree falls on Ben in one scene, the next he's walking around the island as if nothing happens. It seems to me they were rushing the writing and filming to end the show.

Posted by: adam_peritz | May 24, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Christian said,

“This is the place that you all made together so that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people. That’s why all of you are here.”

So the whole Sideways World that we have been watching this whole season is not just from Jack's perspective. It's a place that they all created together. We have seen the story lines of all the characters and many of them have nothing to do with Jack. I just don't understand why they all had to create an alternate LA where they would all coincidentally run into each other and have to be forced to realize that they are dead. I understand that the writers needed to keep us guessing, and starting the last season with an alternate reality of the plane not crashing plays off of the whole idea of dropping the bomb in the Swan to prevent the plane from ever crashing in the first place. But in the end, none of that other stuff that actually happened on the island matters. It was just some crazy you-know-what that the survivors went through. For some of the characters, Sideways world was better, for some it was close to the same. What does it all mean? I can accept that all the crazy #*$% they went through on the island helped them work out their personal demons, and it became the most important time in their lives. And in death, they'd want to at least see all those people again before they took their "final journey," so to speak. But I really just don't grasp or appreciate or understand the relevance of the character's story lines in Sideways World, other than it was just a way to keep the audience guessing and questioning.

Posted by: BethBH | May 24, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with the ending. Despite the hiccups we've seen in Lost over the last 6 seasons, the fact that it always held my interest and that I had such an emotional investment in these characters just proves to me what a great experience it was. The comments are about what I expected as well; some of us are satisfied and some of us are pissed. Makes perfect sense.

I am a little surprised to see posts from people who claim they've never watched the show. Why bother? If you never watched, why do you feel a need to tell us? Why are you even reading all this? I'm just sayin'...

Posted by: domino630 | May 24, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe we could do a survey and find out if those who think the ending was a copout are disproportionately male and those who think it was a beautiful ending are disproportionately female."

I'm female and I thought it was a humongous copout. As I mentioned in the other thread, the writers dug themselves into a hole then told us that it didn't matter how or why, regardless of the fact that there's still a huge effing hole!

Yes, I want answers to my questions. I want to know why there were fertility problems on the island, why Walt was special, why we went skidding through time for a whole season, why the smoke monster was created. I'm not accepting "It doesn't matter because it's about the characters" as an answer. If I had wanted to see a warm fuzzy show about characters, I'd switch to the Lifetime or Hallmark channel. At least there, they know how to resolve a storyline! The Lost characters were about as complex as the origami fortune tellers I used to make as a kid.

And just because I want answers doesn't mean I don't "get it." I "get it" loud and clear. I understand what the episode was trying to say, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I do feel like I've wasted 121.5 hours - no, MUCH MORE, than that - on the damn show because everything I analyzed and researched and theorized was all for NOTHING. It's all meaningless because we all die and "move on" anyway.

Posted by: eet7e | May 24, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Who says Jack died? If that was the end of a regular episode he could have just been going to sleep. He was in the cave at the light one minute (maybe dead), and then all of a sudden he was laying by the stream. How'd he get there?
i think the writers basically got "LOST" week to week just coming up with stories and more questions. Thus, they didn't really have anything figured out as to an ending. Thus, they left it with too many questions and couldn't possibly answer them. It was easy to leave stuff hanging and lots of unanswered questions because that's the way each episode went. I'm not impressed with the story at all - if they would have (could have) made an ending I would have been VERY impressed.
Oh well, it was entertaining, and they did get us to watch each week.

Posted by: davidmij | May 24, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

All this prattle about "Lost" reminds me of the over the top analytical, "are UFO's real", what's the hidden meaning in this, psycho babble conversations I had when I was a pot smoking 15-year-old discussing "Stranger in a Strange Land" or "Lord of the Rings".

I believe we made more sense than some of the questionable comments regarding this TV show.

I have the feeling that the writers and producers were making it up as they went along - just like the Star Wars folks.

Let's face it - the "Lost" folks suckered you, the fan and viewer, in for six seasons and now you are all desperatly trying to make sense out of your obsession with a TV show that took you into flights of fancy, ran you down rabbit holes and generally made you crazy while they raked in the big bucks.

Take it from the Zen philosophy - the show means what it means, no more no less.

I mean come on - you'd think someone shot JR or closed Mary's TV station.


Posted by: stephenrhymer | May 24, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

It's easy-peasy.

Everything that happened on the island was meant to be real.

The sideways timeline has no "now." Since everyone dies at some point (before or after the island storyline ends in the finale) everyone is in the sideways timeline.

The island is underwater in the side-ways "purgatory."

The island is saved in the shows reality.

Jack dies when you see his eye shut. (He was mortally wounded for crying out loud.) Hurley and Linus stayed on the island for many years. "You were a good number one."

The plane that took off from the island carried Claire, Sawyer, Kate, Miles, Richard, Lapidus back to civilization to live out their lives.

Posted by: jack73 | May 24, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I totally agree with the fact that they all died at their separate times, and met up in the church, like it was not in line with the timing in real life or on the island. Like Christian said "there is no now".

The only thing I was confused about was why in the flash sideways is everyone's lives so different? Like why are Jack and Juliette married and have a son, and why are Sawyer and Miles cops, etc.?

Posted by: chelseaehollenkamp | May 24, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

All this prattle about "Lost" reminds me of the over the top analytical, "are UFO's real", what's the hidden meaning in this, psycho babble conversations I had when I was a pot smoking 15-year-old discussing "Stranger in a Strange Land" or "Lord of the Rings".

I believe we made more sense than some of the questionable comments regarding this TV show.

Oddly, the comments about "Lost" sound remarkably similar to those we made about our favorite weird books while sitting around passing a bong or pipe filled with really good pot.

I have the feeling that the writers and producers were making it up as they went along - just like the Star Wars folks.

Let's face it - the "Lost" folks suckered you, the fan and viewer, in for six seasons and now you are all desperatly trying to make sense out of your obsession with a TV show that took you into flights of fancy, ran you down rabbit holes and generally made you crazy while they raked in the big bucks.

Take it from the Zen philosophy - the show means what it means, no more no less.

I mean come on - you'd think someone shot JR or closed Mary's TV station.

All this hubub over what turned out to be nothing - kinda like the last "Seinfeld" episode.

The best part is that many of you have gleaned little bits and pieces of story line that may lend themselves to a sequel or prequel: which is of course, what ABC and the producers want - the opportunity to make more money off a show that drove you all nuts for six seasons (it seems like more).

So keep on talking and philosophysing and, like Sherlock Holmes, looking for the slight nuance in every second of the last show.

That's what ABC hopes you'll do. That way they can sell DVD series, editor's cuts, lost "Lost" footage, scenes, outtakes and of course, alternate endings.

Let the fleecing of the fan base begin.

Posted by: stephenrhymer | May 24, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

The final show The End really makes it seem they were all not only LOST, but all dead from the plane crash, right from the very beginning. The island was just their struggles to realize it, and finally let go, which they were able to do together. Somewhat like the smoke monster told them they could only get off the island all together (at first). If you think of all the fantastic and outlandish things that happened to them, it makes sense these were dreamlike things. Then at the very end they were altogether, and FOUND each other, but to the rest of the world that Oceanic flight was still LOST, as the title came up at the end, and the wreck was shown there on the beach. Even the people who apparently were not yet dead on the island, were still shown in the final scene, so it did not matter if they were shown to be dead or alive on the island, in the end they all were, right from the start. In reality, nobody generally survives such an airplane crash, so it makes sense.


To me, it would have made more sense, and to some degree been more television satisfying, if the Sideways universe in which they began to remember their lives together on the island, and a final Sideways universe gathering to re-connect with each other, was the end of the island and their captivity. And that detonating the atomic bomb on the island did change things after all - just took time to run its course. In other words when they all remembered one another and all met one another in the Sideways universe, their lives and captivity on the island would have vanished (because it never crashed after the atomic bomb was used on the island), so they would have had a special group memory of what they were saved from. They would have LOST their captivity in the end, and gained their freedom with each other. The Sideways universe become the real universe, and the crash and captivity on the island a LOST tragedy they overcame.

Posted by: i_cor_2 | May 24, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

When Juliet said "It worked" she was actually referring to the fact that the candy dropped in sideways world when she met up with Sawyer at the vending machine. Watch last night's episode again and you will see that she says "It worked" right before she makes the comment about going for coffee. The writers did that to make us think all season that she meant the bomb worked.

Posted by: Wichitagirl | May 24, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

My biggest question actually has to do with what the rules were for the death struggle between Jack and Smokey. The "rules" precluded Smokey from killing Jacob or the candidates. But when Jack becomes the island's defender that changes? I understand that when the light goes out Smokey is a mere mortal, but did that apply to Jack too?

I figured Kate was going to end up doing it because Jacob told her that being struck from the magic list of candidates was just a piece of chalk through a name, which presaged she had something important to do. But I still would have liked to have seen Jack and/or Hurley do something "special" once they were changed. The only thing that might fit the bill was that in his final moments Jack seemed aware of what was transpiring in the "flash-sideways."

Posted by: DRBERNABO | May 24, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

The show's creators threw the series under the bus. It was the easiest, most mindless way to exit. As long as the audience has a good blub, all is well. (Aside: Think that's why so many people didn't like the Soprano's finale -- audience didn't get to cry and say 'good-bye.' They actually had to think about the rat-a-tat pacing and symbolism, etc. Much too difficult for the average audience.) The creators of "Lost" PROMISED there would be no "They're all in purgatory!" ending. They PROMISED there would be no Bobby-Ewing-stepping-out-of-the-shower-it's-only-a-dream-type-ending...and so I, guillible fool that I am, hung on. Watching and waiting to discover (SURPRISE!) it was all a dream! A dream within a dream -- like death! Maybe death, maybe a dream! (Whoo-Hoo!) So angry and disappointed. Feel so betrayed! Had such hopes the story would center on the Dharma/Widmore discovery that the island was a time portal and their plans to use this phenomenon for...
Guess that was too much work! Better to make the audience go, "Aw, he's dead. Boo-hoo!" GAG!

Posted by: rcrusoe | May 24, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Dude!

"I don't believe in much, but I do believe in duct tape"

Posted by: HardyW | May 24, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Why are the people who didn't watch or like the show commenting..how weird are you?? That question was rhetorical in case it wasn't obvious :-)

I like the idea that upon death, we are all 'perfected', and in this instance, it means we get to be with the people who meant the most to us, in life. It's a fairly common theme throughout story-telling and spirituality, and the first time, I think, it has been attempted on TV. I liked the mirror images, of Jack's awakening on the island (ep1), and his death on the island, because in the end, the story or central theme was Jack's journey to faith & purpose,(he finally really did fix everything), so it is fitting the Island story, and the story itself ends, with Jacks death, pretty much. I thought Hurley was the natural candidate, to look after the island, and it's secret (which I believe was either love or our 'souls' being the light), and was sorta disappointed in the 2nd to last it was Jacks choice but happy it was Hurley in the end. For me the sideways reality was not a purgatory, (to think it is is a mis-understanding of that really Catholic idea), because they had all been redeemed before they left the island, and so no need for the idea, they had fulfilled their purposes. For me the sideways reality was a place that all the characters could understand because of the time they died and a waiting place. I wanted the characters to be together, off the Island. I wanted Sun & Jin to finally be together, I wanted Sawyer to be with Juliet, Jack with Kate, Charlie with Claire, Desmond to finally be with Penny, and so on, and I felt satisfied. I liked that Ben was waiting for Alex to be ready, and asked for Locke's forgiveness.

I don't think the writers painted themselves into any corner, they had an overall idea, and like all writers, they wrote it as they went along. Nor do I need everything to be answered, let's face it even if they did, no-one would agree anyway. We all die, at some time, and when we do, we find the people we loved most again. Sorta lame but kinda awesome at the same time.

Posted by: gadgetory | May 24, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Endorsing what eet7e says. I am not minded to insult anyone who did like the episode. All my dissatisfaction is with the parties responsible for this clunker, not those fans whose opinions of it are more positive than mine (and I didn't absolutely hate it, I just though there were more minuses than pluses).

But among the finale's admirers there is a subset that insists on attacking us fans who aren't equally thrilled, and as eet7e feels, I don't see why that's necessary. It's not that we're too stupid or emotionally cloddish to understand The End. We do get it - we just don't like what we get. That's all, and no harm no foul for those who both get it and like it - or even those such as L&J who liked it even without getting it (J/K; if we can't tease them now...)

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Boy you were so fixated on everybody having to have died in real time to all be at the church at the same time. Christian came out and stated that some of them died long after Jack. So the plane landed safely. Everybody lived long happy lives. Then when they died they wound up in LA X at that age and had a big ol' afterlife island reunion.

I wonder if LindeCuse hope the whole crew who put this show together live long lives that add up to nothing and they all reconvene in the afterlife at the exact ages they are now.

Posted by: HardyW | May 24, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Regarding this:

The message: What does dead really mean anyway?
Jen: I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they weren't dead the whole time. Here's why. Christian, Jack's dad, told him that everything that happened was real.

What could have happen to them if they were dead in the traditional sense, yet all the episodes of events, could still be real, or real to them in some alternate sense. So the arguement does not necessarily hold up so say they were not dead from the beginning. There was a major planecrash - it makes sense they were all dead from the beginning, and the whole show was their (call it spiritual) struggles to realize this before they altogether found each other and got off the island. Perhaps the smog monster trying to kill them was also trying to get them off the island too. Once they realized they were dead, then they were free.

Posted by: i_cor_2 | May 24, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

i_cor_2 < yup, i agree and don't know why this approach wasn't taken by the writers.

Posted by: lebowski | May 24, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

What is Lost and why is it on the front page?

Posted by: patrickschabe | May 24, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

While I agree with most of what you are saying, I think you are missing a point with Baby Aaron.
The scene at the church represented everyone Jack needed and everyone who needed Jack during "the most important time of his life."
Aaron was a baby for much of that time. Or, when Jack met Aaron, he was a baby. We could assume that since the scene in the church is at no given "now" that Aaron is dead, but he didn't necessarily die as an infant. He could have lived to be an 85 year old man and then died because we have no idea what time frame in "our time" the church scene is happening. Aaron as a baby is what works for "Jack's time." Same with Kate. And Sawyer. And Claire. They didn't necessarily have to die on the flight off the island ... they could have gone home and lived whatever lives they lived until they eventually died. But we seem them in the church as Jack knew them because that was on "Jack time."

Posted by: erinnx | May 24, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Bravo to the poster who mentioned the end of St Elsewhere! So glad this whole series wasn't just a figment of Hurley's therapy sessions!

Impressed overall, happy they brought back Rose & Bernard, that Sawyer found Juliet ... and, oh, that last scene with sweet Vincent! but too many questions left unanswered: DID the people in Frank's plane make it? What happened on island after Jack died? How did Desmond get off the island (and if not dead, why is Penny in the church?) and were Aaron and grandma real?

Lastly, it was obvious to me that the only people in the church would be the original losties plus Desmond, since so much of his fate was tied into theirs. All the others, such as Miles, Frank, even Michael & Walt, belonged elsewhere.

I wonder what happened to Richard??

Posted by: fairfax51 | May 24, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Did anybody compile a list of all the faiths represented in the stained glass window? Seem to be a non-denominational kind of purgatory.

Posted by: csteiger | May 24, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Jen and Liz, your comment that Ben and Hurley must have also "bit it" to be seen in the afterlife scene in the church misses the point.

Remember what Christian Shepherd says: "There is no 'now' here."

Ben, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, and all the others who survived the island as Jack saved it do eventually die. That's all that matters when it comes to being seen in the afterlife portion of the show. There is no now so Jack can see them. They appear there *whenever* it is that they meet their final fate. The timeline is irrelevant.

Posted by: paltrysum | May 24, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

On another note, my mind totally went where Liz and Jen's went last night when Jack was corking up that island. Completely phallic for sure.

Posted by: smynola06 | May 24, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the Dharma Initiative/Widmore arc was ever to be solved or answered. Like many mysteries in the world, man seeks to find scientific meaning behind everything that sometimes only has a faith-based answer. Like MIB said in the Jacob/MIB-centric episode, man is inquisitive, and seeks to find out things they don't understand. The Dharma Initiative was just the 70's version of what had been going on for centuries before. Or the Others camp figuring out the issue of child birthing on the island. It's just that the writers spent a lot of time giving us the details behind these efforts.

I really enjoyed the series end. It gave the emotional closure that many of us grew to have over the years. To see that the characters did eventually "find" each other, regain their love for one another, find redemption in the process, and to see the hope they spent 5 seasons chasing fulfilled was the very definition of faith that the show had been plugging all along. Very eloquent.

Other tidbits (this is my first time posting ever)

- Ben didn't want to go into the church because he wanted to reconcile with Alex, who was still unaware.

- Eloise knew all along they were dead and wanted more time with her son because she never forgave herself for killing him.

- The season was the swan song for each of the characters, not just this last episode. The majority of characters got to live a redeemed life apart from their natural lives. Sideways world was more redemption world, a happier world until they realized they were dead and ready to move on (a la Christian Sheppard's explanation).

Posted by: baldy06 | May 24, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Haven't seen many questions or comments today about Ben, so let me pose a few. Is the reason Ben doesn't protest when Jack picks Hurley as his successor that he finally realizes that running the island isn't a competition, showing (at least partial) enlightenment? Or simply because the show was running out of time? I expected the camera to show Ben as dejected at being passed over again, but he seemed strangely blank.

Related question: I realize Hurley invites Ben into the church, but it still felt wrong to me that he wasn't part of the reunion. I guess it could be because he's waiting for Danielle and Alex, as others have suggested. But maybe it is intended to remind us of his previous exchange with Ilana (strangely missing from the finale, by the way--or did I just miss her?) where he says he had to go with MIB because no one else would have him, and she says, "I'll have you." Now that he knows there's a place that will welcome him, he doesn't have to go there--yet, anyway.

Final question: Why weren't Frank, Miles and Alpert in the church? Kate, Claire James were on the same plane and were there. And certainly if characters like Boone, Shannon and Penny made it, those three qualified, too.

All that said, the show definitely redeemed itself with this episode. Well done!

Posted by: DCSteve1 | May 24, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

eet7e < yes, yes, yes. if all these various characters, plots and sub-plots were real -- if what we see on the island is real, which it appears most people agree with -- then what was the purpose or reason for taking us through so much of its history. Dharma. The Others. Fertility. Kids. Walt. Widmore. Hanso. The Temple. Etc. That was all real. But, never mind that, it's all about Jack crossing over into heaven. Wow. Give me those first two seasons back and let's start over.

Posted by: lebowski | May 24, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't think they all had to necessarily die that day to end up at the afterworld church. Some were already dead and some could have died 10, 20, 50 years after the last day we saw. Jack's father said there's no now in the sideways / afterworld. For example, Hurley and Ben could have lived on the island for 100 years for all we know. And I don't think the baby in the afterworld was the real baby. Claire and Kate did get off the island with Sawyer and could have went on to raise that kid.

Posted by: zeppelin23 | May 24, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

With all the white lights last night, I can't help but wonder if the white light into which they all entered from the church might be the same light that emerges from the earth on the island - the spirit of life that is rejuvenated by the souls of those who have "let go" who serve as coal to fuel the fire. It would make sense that you would only want those who are ready (at peace, happy, well-adjusted) to become part of the source.

Posted by: PerfectlyCromulent64 | May 24, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

so, does anybody have any thoughts on how Jack got out of the cave to stumble to his dying spot in the bamboo forest? And did anybody catch when he changed from the white dress shirt he was wearing at the beginning of the finale (when he was standing in the stream after becoming the new Jacob) (i.e., man in white) to the blue t-shirt he was wearing when he was dying with Vincent lying beside him? Was he just in the blue shirt from the time he reappeared in the lake above ground?

Posted by: dc-native | May 24, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Another thought: Wasn't it "established" that the Man in Black could not kill the candidates? Jacob made Jack "like him" immortal or extremely long-lived. And then MIB turns around and stabs Jack, who apparently dies of that wound. This is just a small example of why, although I liked some parts of the finale, for me, the ending doesn't hold up. The writers establish "rules" and then just discard them.

What I want to do right now is be like Hurley, rewriting the Star Wars script, only I want to refine and reshape season six. I really thought the finale would tackle some of the earlier themes: who were the Dharmas, how did they find the Island and discover its power source, who made the temple, the statue, the donkey wheel -- but instead it focused just on the flash sideways and left a few odd strings hanging: the Ajira plane taking off with Lapidus, Hurley becoming the new Jacob.

Also, two weeks ago the Allison Janney character said going into the light was a fate worse than death, but then both Des and Jack got dunked in there and neither one became a smoke monster.

And don't even get me started on Desmond removing the cork -- that not working for some reason or other -- and then Jack restoppering the cork.

The writers just plain ran out of gas. So instead they went for a big, sloppy, wet-kiss, new-age ending: "let's all hug and go into the light." (But let's put Vincent in there as a puppy just to give the peanuts another meaningless clue to chew over.)

Posted by: NW_Washington | May 24, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Geesh, nerds.

Posted by: damnit79 | May 24, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

The line of thought that they had to be alive (at least for some period) on the island because of all the many shows and details devoted to it, forgets the idea that the father who was again missing from the coffin said there is no now, was also missing from the coffin in an earlier episode too. So the entire island experience following the crash was a "no now" situation - especially given all the fanstanstic things that occured, and the timetravel and other weird twists. The only physically real thing seems to have been the original planecrash. What they experienced on the island was sort of like Picard experiencing a whole lifetime in a few moments in ST: Next Generation episode.

Posted by: i_cor_2 | May 24, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I really do not understand this obsession by some to make this harder than it is, as in repeatedly insisting that they were always dead, that the Island was purgatory, or that everything was imagined in the flash of an instant while Jack died from the crash, as in Occurrance at Oak Creek Bridge.

The simplest explanation really is the best. As Daniel said -- everything that happened, happened.

Posted by: ooyah32 | May 24, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Instead of calling it "Flash Sideways", calling it "Flash End of Days" makes better sense. Because of the editing, the viewers thought the "Flash Sideways" was happening concurrently along side what was happening on the island. But it wasn't. As others have posted, it happened far in the future after everyone passed away. It was their meeting place before moving on. So it doesn't matter that Aaron was there as a baby. Aaron could have lived a long and happy life.

What happened on the island was real and Jack did die on the island at the end. It didn't matter that he was cumbaying with everyone in the "Flash Sideways" since that happened at the end of their days.

As for the unanswered question regarding women getting pregnant on the island...I think that was just another of Jacob's rules. Given what happened to his birth mother, it does make some sense.
At the end of the show, Ben told Hurley since he was in charge of the island, he could make up his own rules, one of which was that Desmond could leave the island to be with Penny and his son.

Of course, now I want to see what the island would be like with Hurley and Ben overseeing it. Dude! Fried chicken and Stars Wars for everybody!

Posted by: olivertray | May 24, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

My take is that writers from the start invoked some sort of divine entity and an after life. All the characters died in the irst episode in the plane crash. But they left behind unfullfilled loving relationships. The story is the divine entity giving the character a chance to consumate the loves of their lives destiny denied prior to entering into the afterlife together.

Posted by: i1mind | May 24, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Great summary/review from James Poniewozik: "Lost is a story about community, connections and interdependence. You live together, it told us, or you die alone. And when you live together--when you share of yourself and make meaning with others--you never die alone, even when you die bleeding out on the floor of a bamboo forest."

The rest here: http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/#ixzz0orxfbtdW

Posted by: pietro-secondo | May 24, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Were they dead all along? Of course not, since they were never alive to begin with. It was a TV show. Now that it's over, stop investing your precious time and energies in the meaning of fantasy stories presented to get you to buy stuff. Get involved in what's good, true, and beautiful, and do things to help others and get closer to God.

Posted by: DoTheRightThing | May 24, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

And when Miles channeled dead Juliet and let Sawyer know "it worked", what did that mean? WHAT worked?
-------------------------------------------
Unplugging the vending machine. When Juliet handed Sawyer the Apollo bar from the vending machine, she said to him, "It worked." It was another bleed through from the sideways world.

Posted by: beaker1 | May 24, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I think sideways is Jack's thoughts as he is dying after being stabbed in the finale. It took a while to be told and thus started at the beginning of season 6. It is a version of what he wanted the outcome to be for everyone: people to be together with the ones they loved from his perspective, him curing John so he could walk again, the son he never had (to make up for deficiencies he had in his own relationship with his father), Ben apologizing to Locke but being kept out for the time being from going to the same place as the others. Sideways was entirely in the mind of Jack and did not involve anyone else in reality. It's why they were all led to the light by his father and not someone else. Why there are no characters in the room that would have been significant to only another person that Jack wouldn't know of. Sideways the message the creators wanted to leave about what is important to a dying person, specifically Jack. In a way Lost was a modern version of "It's a Wonderful Life."

Reality was the Island. Hurley and Ben were left on the Island and only a few escaped on the plane. In reality those were the ones left alive at the end of Lost. The church is the explanation that Jack created in his mind as he lay dying for the end and summarizing what was important for him.

Posted by: NotLost | May 24, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't disagree with you more about the Ajira plane. I believe it did not crash, that the passengers made it to safety and lived their lives out off the island. As Christian said, there is no relative time for those at the church, some died years before Jack, some after. I think the writers deliberately left it up to us to decide the fate of many of these people. And for me, the Ajira plane succeeded in not only passing over Jack's head, but in heading on to safety somewhere.

Posted by: lapopessa | May 24, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I think what was going on during season six was instead of well a flash sideways it was a flash.. limbo/heaven. And in that space time doesn't actually matter. So yea people like kate and sawyer and miles and them got off the island while Jack died and Ben and Hurley stayed behind. The thing is though that they will all die eventually and they illuded to that with Christian and the comments between Hurley and Ben at the chapel.

So if you take all the island stuff from season six and keep it by itself then take all the flash stuff in season six and put it together after jack dies you would have well the story as I see it.

Posted by: Kaliden_Xavier | May 24, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

You are so right i_cor_2. I guess many people have invested so much time in this series they feel the need to believe in all the storylines. But like you, I believe that Jack's island experience was all in his head before dying. Just because Desmond, Penny, Widmore, Eloise, etc. weren't on the plane, does not preclude them from being in Jack's "dream" of death. Remember that the final scene was not Jack's eye closing, but a shot of the wreckage of the plane with no "survivors." As Rose told Jack, "You can let go now." LOST fanatics, you can let go now. Namaste indeed. Like Miles, "I don't believe in much, but I do believe in duct tape." Funniest, truest line of the entire show. Thanks for a wild ride, Darlton (and let us not forget to thank Abrams for the best pilot ever).

Posted by: scandibaby | May 24, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

You are so right i_cor_2. I guess many people have invested so much time in this series they feel the need to believe in all the storylines. But like you, I believe that Jack's island experience was all in his head before dying. Just because Desmond, Penny, Widmore, Eloise, etc. weren't on the plane, does not preclude them from being in Jack's "dream" of death. Remember that the final scene was not Jack's eye closing, but a shot of the wreckage of the plane with no "survivors." As Rose told Jack, "You can let go now." LOST fanatics (and I count myself as one), you can let go now. Namaste indeed. Like Miles, "I don't believe in much, but I do believe in duct tape." Funniest, truest line of the entire show. Thanks for a wild ride, Darlton (and let us not forget to thank Abrams for the best pilot ever).

Posted by: scandibaby | May 24, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

NW_Washington:

Pulling the cork turned off the island's power, which turned off Jacob's and Allison Janney's power, meaning there were no rules. That's why MiB had to unstop the island in order to leave. It's why MiB was able to stab Jack, and why Kate was able to shoot MiB. And why Alpert started to age.

I'm with you, though, on wondering why neither Desmond nor Jack became a new smoke monster. I have two guesses: first, each went into the light of their own volition, whereas MiB was thrown in and wanted vengeance, or second, MiB was dead when he went into the light, and the smoke monster can only be freed by the presence of a dead body. I'm not super happy with either of those theories, because the first doesn't seem to have much strength in explanation, and the second would imply that Jacob killed his brother, which was supposedly against the rules.

Posted by: crashinghero | May 24, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

The wrecked plane at the end was the show's homage to how this all started. Jack saw the Ajira flight pass over his head - not crash next to him.

Posted by: lapopessa | May 24, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Also baby Aaron wasen't dead Adult Aaron maybe cause remember Christian said time has no meaning there.

Posted by: Kaliden_Xavier | May 24, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Surprised you are so confused on the alive/dead thing. Jack was dead all season in sideways world and so was everyone else there. But Jack on the island was alive until last night when he sacrificed himself to save the island.

Same thing with the ajira flight and penny and other questions you brought up. These people are all still alive in island/real world as far as we know. As Christian said to Jack, "everyone dies at some point. Some before you and some long after you". So the appearance of those people in sideways world only means that (like everyone) they died at some point in the future, not necessarily at the point in the timeline where the series ended. I think we should assume the sideways world exists outside of time and that the sideways flashes we have seen this season were not occurring concurrently with the island action as most had assumed.

Posted by: dinosaursinc | May 24, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Guess I was so excited I posted my comments twice. Let me now add a postscript from Hamlet:
"To die, to sleep no more – and by a sleep to say we end the heartache and the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to – ‘tis a consummation devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep to sleep, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub, for in that sleep of death what dreams may come,when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause. There's the respect that makes calamity of so long life." Sweet dreams, Jack.

Posted by: scandibaby | May 24, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

It does not seem plausible that for Aaron, the island or those people, would be the most significant part of his life.

Posted by: lostandfound | May 24, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I have been reading various blogs on different websites and there are so many posts arguing about what the finale meant. I don't know how many times I have read "you people just don't get it".

And that's the problem with the Finale - it's not clear. It would be nice if that meant that the writers were clever and you could interpret the story in various ways. But I don't think that is what happened - I feel duped by the writers. I really don't think they knew what they were doing and so instead of trying to add a plausible ending that matched the entire series, they added some over-emotional nonsense to cover up their ineptitude.

I have watched the entire series and while the character relationships have a part, so does the island, time travel, electromagnetism, sci-fi stuff. But that part just got dropped. For instance, why did MIB turn into the smoke monster when Jacob threw him into the light, but Desmond, Hurley and Jack just saunter into the cave unharmed? Honestly WTF?

I am very disappointed in the ending and when I see people arguing intensely about the "meaning" I resent the writers even more for their cowardice to take ownership of the story - all of it.

I will think twice before I invest my time in another series show.

Posted by: cjgh | May 24, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Disappointed at the end with the ghosts finally finding the light a common theme in TV and film. Even that was poorly done with Michael not sitting with Ben staying on a little longer. Never did get a name for the MIB, nor how Jacob affected their lives for their final trip while alive, MIB while dead on the island (religious reference to Gin and Saints?).

Posted by: jameschirico | May 24, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"I'm with you, though, on wondering why neither Desmond nor Jack became a new smoke monster."

I think Desmond was "explained" by his "special" power to withstand electromagnetism. He was important to both MIB and Jack because they both knew he was the only one who could withstand whatever the power was and make it to the "cork."

But I'm with you on not understanding how/why Jack (a) didn't turn into Smokey, and (b) wasn't dead when the force pitched his body out (like MIB). I suspect the latter is cinematic liberty -- basically, he didn't die right away because they wanted to end the story with him back in the bamboo where it all began, watching the plane go by.

As to why he didn't turn into Smokey, I am thinking of it almost as a trial-by-fire/cleansing kind of thing. With MIB, the power of the energy seems to have stripped away all of the good, human parts, and left only the bad -- the power-seeking, Machiavellian, need-to-get-off-the-island-and-will-do-anything-to-get-there bits. Smokey was the electromagnetic manifestation of MIB's bad side.

Jack, on the other hand, wasn't going in there for his own power/glory/desire. He knew it would kill him but was willing to sacrifice himself to save the island (and his friends). He was "pure" in a way that no one else going after the energy was (MIB, Whidmore, etc.). So when the energy returned and stripped away the "good" parts, there wasn't the same malignant force inside him to be unleashed to haunt the island. Instead, the power of the energy just spit out his now-sapped body to die.

I also like the idea that someone else had earlier that the "light" Christian went into at the end was the same light -- that the power and love inside the people who have reached their own resolution goes back to that source and powers it for the next generation. That would be an added gloss on this -- the light in the pool was pulling away the "good" parts to refuel the next generation, but since MIB reached the pool before he was spiritually prepared, he left behind his negative residue in the form of smokey.

Posted by: laura33 | May 24, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

You guys just signed off of the chat and I'm feeling almost as choked up as I did last night.

Thanks so much, Liz and Jen (and Paul). Somehow you always struck just the right level of analysis--helping me figure out why the stuff that tickled the edges of my brain was in fact significant, but without any implication that people who didn't spend hours hunting down spoilers were inadequate fans.

Especially with all this rethinking of what media and journalism are, you guys should be really, really proud of what you've done here.

Posted by: cheryl8 | May 24, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I learned after six seasons of Lost: keep going to the gym because fat guys never get the girl.

Sawyer got Juliet, Jack got Kate, Jin kept Sun, but Hurley wanted Libby and settled for Ben.

I'm doing extra curls tonight.

BTW: Thanks to Jen and Liz for adding something special to my preoccupation with Lost.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | May 24, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Dead the whole time. It WAS purgatory -- the show's creators comments notwithstanding. They couldn't really have said "Yeah, it is purgatory" when asked about it early on -- how would that have worked? They had to say "NO" when asked. The series was the best and the finale was great . . . even though I was right all along about they having died in the plane crash and this "purgatory" was their way of finding redemption for the lives they had led and making a peace before moving on.

Posted by: RBCrook | May 24, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

> "But among the finale's admirers there is a subset that insists on attacking us fans who aren't equally thrilled, and as eet7e feels, I don't see why that's necessary. It's not that we're too stupid or emotionally cloddish to understand The End. We do get it - we just don't like what we get."
.
.
Well said, UniqueID. If I was one of those you were refering to (this morning or last night) please accept my apologies. You are entirely correct.

Heaven knows I loved the mysteries too. My eighteen year old son and I have been debating them for a third of this life, and virtually all of his formative years.

But I think they made the right call about how to end. They gave us two shows chocked full of answers -- I'm counting Across The Sea, which probably will make you lol or gag quietly -- and then finished by focusing on closure for the people, their finding peace and one another before moving on to whatever comes next for all of us. I thought the LA X reveal was very thought provoking and not at all what I expected.

Instead of challenging one another with empty gestures, maybe we really should toss around ideas for how *we* would ended the show. I'd enjoy that. If each submission was reasonably brief. (Ahem...)

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it to you yet...but below are 2 REASONS that point to the fact that EVERYONE DID DIE IN THE ORIGINAL PLANE CRASH...

1. Claire was PREGNANT in the sideways....just as she was when the original plane crashed in Episode 1. If she had died during the bomb or as you call it, "The Incident" (at which time she had already given birth) she would NOT have been pregnant in the sideways! :)

2. Jack ended up in the SAME EXACT spot where his body had landed when the plane crashed in Episode 1. And Vincent ran over to him in the same exact way. And the Oceanic plane wreckage shown at the end was STILL smoking. Meaning that the ALL 6 SEASONS happened in a nanosecond...as Matthew Fox mentioned on Kimmel. Jack landed on his back, had this "out of body" experience (the show), and then died.

P.S. We got to see everyone's "out of body" experiences along the way and at the end.

Posted by: yankees11 | May 24, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"I thought it was wonderfully done." Posted by: MeriJ | May 24,

I couldn't agree more and I am a man as well. I cared about these characters. I love participating in the scifi speculation (I love scifi), but in the end, I cared about the characters as much if not even more.

Posted by: dojemc | May 24, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Donnie Darko, etc:

Pretty surreal trying to read all these comments, especially from fans I never got the privilege of knowing prior to today. I guess it will have to wait till this evening. But the Lost ending must have struck some nerves to bring this many newcomers out of lurkdom.

One thing I would like to say now: Almost no one got Donnie Darko at the time. Ditto for Mulholland Drive. There weren't internet sites or chat rooms you could go to, so you had to puzzle it out by yourself or with the few people you knew who'd seen it. Eventually we all figured out WTF had happened. But certainly not by the next afternoon...

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Funny, I don't really consider myself to be a "typical male"---but I found myself nodding off at several points during the finale. Meanwhile, my wife was getting weepy at each new revelation.

I guess I always found the characters interesting, but never truly compelling. I was more driven by the mystery of it all, and that's where the finale fell short. I wanted to be wowed, and I wasn't.

Posted by: youba | May 24, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"i'm so glad i never bothered to watch this show." Posted by: ktzmom13 | May 24, 2010 9:54 AM buse
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
Posted by: jayjordan | May 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse


"--As Charlie would say, Sod Off!!"
Posted by: PortlandMaine

Totally agree Homeboy: - ) Clearly these people have issues if they post on a website devoted to a show which they never watched, or slept thru. Based upon the number of posts here and to the instant analysis earlier, this show is doing what it has done for 6 years - - grab our attention and it won't let go.

I look forward to watching "Afterlost" next year that a poster above mentioned. LOL at that post : - )

Posted by: dojemc | May 24, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Okay, my two cents, since I haven't seen it offered yet.

It all began (after the crash) with Jack opening his eyes in the bamboo forest. We ended with him closing his eyes in the same spot. So, the overall story is all Jack-centric, and this is very much the case for the last season. I'm not saying that the rest of the cast did not have meaningful lives, or that the events in their lives didn't happen. But, taken as a whole, this is Jack's story.

I think this is reflected in the final church scene. Why were particular people in the church, and others were not? Because those are the people that were important to Jack, and they were all as Jack remembered them or as Jack needed to remember them. Aaron was still a baby, because Jack did not know Aaron as a toddler or as an adult (I may be wrong about the toddler; I can't remember that far back). We saw Penny because it was important to Jack that Desmond and Penny were reunited. The same for Shannon and Sayid; Jack never knew Nadia, so she was not a character that was needed to bring Jack in. Jack may have been responsible for Juliet's death (that's debatable), but he felt responsible, so he needed to see Sawyer and Juliet reunited. Did he ever notice Hurley and Libby's relationship? I don't know, but the last thing Jack did was to "pass the baton" to Hurley, so maybe that was why Libby wasn't in the church.

I think that the characters did continue to have lives beyond the final island scenes (Hurley and Ben on the island, Kate helping to raise Aaron, etc). And I think Jack died in the bamboo forest after being stabbed by MIB. But the final sideway story line was to bring the now-dead characters back together and help Jack walk through the light.

Anyway, that's my take. It was a fun roller-coaster, but I think I'm glad it's over.

Posted by: c0lnag0 | May 24, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

No, not at all, MeriJ. I've always appreciated your contributions as well as your courtesy, when we agreed and when we disagreed.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 24, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Others may have said this, but here's my take on the show.

Island time was the real time and sideways was Jack's own personal journey to "move on". Both times were happening at the same time.

If you notice all the people who were at the church, they were somehow "touched" by Jack's medical hands or Jack felt responsible for their death somehow. Boone, Libby, Locke, Juliet, etc...even Charlie. The Ajira plane did make it off the island safely.

Jack's journey allowed those who died to make those last connections or re-connections with their loved ones (Shannon and Sayid, Sawyer and Juliet, Jin allowing to see his daughter in the ultrasound (remember Kate told Jack that Jin never had a chance to see her), Desmond and Penny). Not everyone in the church was dead.

Jack knew that Ben would stay with Hurley, hence the "you were a great number 2 (1)".

The church-goers were there to let Jack know that it's ok for him to move on and that he shouldn't feel guilty or have the need to "fix things" any longer.

Posted by: monkeywrench2 | May 24, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I will say this about Lost, the island was real and yet it seemed to be ruled by Jacob with some sort of divine power where rules, physics and anything else can be changed as Jacob wants. Something that gave Jacob and his step-mother power, we'll call that God. Jacob became the savior of people who accepted help and let go. Some went to hell "Walt" and other went to purgatory "Boone". In season 5 when bomb went off, there wasn't an alternate universe or anything. It seemed that the people who died setting off the bomb went to purgatory where they assumed that it did work, and those that lived saw that it didn't. Those that died setting that bomb off while in purgatory (somehow) set up the alternate time line where they were until they got things right. Since time had no meaning, as soon as they arrived everyone else was there and you could actually play this all out from the time of the 1st crash in 2004 when the 1st person died. I know this sounds weird, but the 1st person who died of the group was Boone and basically as soon as he got to purgatory he would have seen everyone else in this alternate time-line they created for purgatory to see what life would have been like had there been no island. They would all still feel empty and it would show them that "Yes, the island was the best time of your lives." I always thought it was purgatory and it wasn't on the island, but it was where they were going. It was more like last chance before afte life because this Jacob character wanted to help you, because no explanation except for a divinely created and interfered situation could make sense. I take it that those people in the church who were alone and the best thing in life for them was the time on that island and so they waited in purgatory for each other to all get it right so they could go to heaven, because those people meant the most to them in the world. Since time didn't matter they all seemed to be there at once although they all died at different times. Walt and many other people who were on island had more full lives and didn't need to go to purgatory and had other important places to go when they died. Ben, Anna Lucia, Widmores hadn't made it yet and there "letting go" was some place else. I wish the darn numbers had made sense, unless it seems god just created things that people seemed to imagine and let the people on the island run wild with there own imagination. Which doesn't seem so strange because there is no other explanation of all the conflicting things that went on there. It's kind of a nice way to wrap religion, purgatory, atonement, god and death all in one without offending anyone too much. The 6 major religions on the stained glass said that of course to me. I liked the ending it's a lot, and I think it was well done, because you can't really answer it all =(

Posted by: khornbeak | May 24, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Best lines:

1. I don't believe in much but I do believe in duct tape.

2. SW Locke: Asked Jack what might happen during the operation (or something). Jack: Well, I could kill you.

I thought that forshadowed Jack killing Locke on the operating table when he had his OT revelation that Locke, in the form of MIB, was evil. In fact, it forshadowed Jack killing MIB/Locke on the Island.

Posted by: dojemc | May 24, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Thanks UniqueID! I'll admit that I felt moved when Juliet and Sawyer reunited and when Claire and Charlie remembered each other. And when Jin and Sun started speaking English - oh my! But all of those reunions would've been better at the end of a chick flick rather than a 6 season romp chock full of mythology, time travel, healing islands, and smoke monsters that take the shape of dead people.

Posted by: eet7e | May 24, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to study how people's belief in a God/afterlife parallels their reaction to the LOST finale; I'm sure there's a correlation. To me this whole show is a gigantic parallel to faith itself...

Some people (including me) are saying "beautiful, wonderful, love."

Others are outraged: "But they didn't give us ALL the answers!"

Still others: "yes they DID give us all the answers; here is the ONE TRUE EXPLANATION for EXACTLY what happened and anyone else who sees it differently is wrong!"

And in the final camp, those who think the whole thing is a stupid waste of time and has no meaning and adds nothing of value to life.

My next sermon (yes, man of faith here) may be called "You All Everybody."

Thanks again, Liz and Jen!

Posted by: Sam888 | May 24, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

If this is what happens in real life, than I hope all of the hot Hooter's waitresses are there waiting for me when I realize I have died! Cause that was the most important time in my life!

Posted by: authorofpoetry | May 24, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I say kudos to LindCruse for finally referencing The Prisoner! How perfect was it to have Ben be #2 and Hurley be the kinder gentler #1? #2 was always Patrick Mcgoohan nemesis.

For the most part I liked the ending, but I think they should have at the very least shown Walt. He was built up in the beginning to be so important to the island and then they pretty much just wrote him out of the show.

Also, Said should be with Nadia! He has been mooning over her for the entire 6 seasons and even became an assassin when she was killed.

I do think Sawyer, Kate, Richard, Miles, and Frank made it off the island. Christian specifically said "Some of these people died before you and some died long after you." I think the wreckage at the end was the original Oceanic flight 815.

My thanks to the people of Lost for a wild ride.

Posted by: kay41 | May 24, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

A couple of people have said that Libby was not in the church. She was. She was one of the first to remember her on-island time and I remember being happy for Hurley that she was there next to him in the church. (Also, you can see her standing behind Jin in the picture at the head of this chat.)

I agree that the church scene was from Jack's perpective and that all the people would look as he knew them during the pivotal point of his life. They were off with Baby Aaron, though. Jack knew Aaron as a toddler. He helped Kate raise him in between returning from the island the first time and then trying to get back to island the second time.

Posted by: Ellbeecee | May 24, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

I apologize if I missed someone else making this same observation but the two authors of this article may have missed something that was said (causing confusion about Penny, Hurly and Ben being "dead" at the church) but Christian told Jack that there isnt a "now" so it is obvious that all people you care about would be there at the same "time" since many years could've passed before the "survivors" were no longer living, only to meet up with their previously departed loved ones.

Personally, I was happy and sad with the ending but I am not sure that the ending could have been any more satisfying. Seeing Sun and Jin together, Sayed, and so many other loved characters "alive" and together was awesome.

Posted by: DonWin2 | May 24, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Folks, the AJIRA plane crashed too! And that crash killed everyone because coming back to the Island reset everything, freed all the souls trapped on the Island, and allowed them to move on. That's why Jack and everyone, including Locke's body, HAD to return to the Island.

We don't see how Jack gets out of the cave of the light because what we actually see when he "wakes up" is him waking up after the Ajira plane crashed and threw him onto the rocks in the creek. He managed to get up, stumble into the bamboo forrest, then fell in the exact spot where he originally woke up after the Oceanic crash. Everything after the AJIRA crash is just his dying dream and the "construct" that they all agreed to create when they agreed to return to the Island. Jack can then die at peace because he knows he and the others "fixed" the original hole in the space/time continnum (or whatever) that was keeping their souls from leaving the Island, being at peace, going to Heaven, or whatever.

Do you think the first movie will show us what happened when the Ajira 6 return to civilization? What a hell of a story they'll have to tell! Claire can sue for HER millions in restitution for the Oceanic crash, Richard can write a book on what it's like to live for hundreds of years and also serve as an expert on what life was actually like in Spain (or was it the Canary Islands?) in the 1600s. Miles can continue talking to dead people. Lapidus can give flying lessons, and Sawyer can become a cop and marry Kate and they'll have their own baby. Of course, NO ONE will want to search for this incredible magical Island...


Posted by: red_hawk1968 | May 24, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I think they made it up as they went along.Then it go so complicated that they did not know where to go.So made up a weird ending.As a Scify fan I would not have bothered to watch had I known.I thought the end was a load of rubbish.I normally enjoy American shows.But not this one

Posted by: michaelhazell | May 24, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I think they made it up as they went along.Then it go so complicated that they did not know where to go.So made up a weird ending.As a Scify fan I would not have bothered to watch had I known.I thought the end was a load of rubbish.I normally enjoy American shows.But not this one

Posted by: michaelhazell | May 24, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Were they dead? in purgatory? part of a dream? While not a longtime viewer [chased off by the 'long smokey thing' long ago], I watched the summary prequel and last episode with relish. There is no place called dead or purgatory - simply a shared use of metaphor for places we imagine. And while the place called dream is more available to us, it's idiosyncratic to our own unique experience. The creators of LOST were pretty successful in introducing us into a new virtual reality that was placed close enough to our shared reality to escape being classified as fantasy, yet far enough away to have us arguing if it's one of our preconceived other realities. I'd say that is an overwhelming compliment to Lost's creators. They played with time, natural forces, and memory and kept us busy trying to figure out the rules, only to have them change slightly or evaporate before they came within our grasp. To me, Lost occurred in the 'place where Lost occurred' and ended 'as things end in Lost.' It was, after all, colored pixels from inside a box on the wall.

Posted by: jnardo | May 24, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I really enjoyed your commentary on this.

A few responses:

"... part of sideways world which we now know was not a real place, but as Christian Shephard explained, something our Losties collectively created to find each other."

This is a very Buddhist idea: Our minds make the world, and it's a collective process.

"... because his eye was the first to open ..."

And having mentioned Buddhism -- "because his eye was the first to open" -- whoa! That was like Buddhist poetry.

On Penny not being dead, but being in the church:

Well, if Hurley and Ben lived to a ripe old age on the island before they died (and we know that could mean a really long time, if Hurley lived half as long as Jacob), then there was plenty of time for Penny (and everyone on the Ajira plane with Frank) to get old and die peacefully in their beds.

On Nikki and Paolo being absent from the church:

Nikki and Paolo were not close with these guys. Like so many people who were not in the church, they were not part of the core group. Michael was -- but I guess we could say he had been "cast out" because of his leaving before anyone else.

On the phallic symbolism of the "cork":

This kind of symbolism has a rich and respected history (linga and yoni; Shiva and Shakti; the creation story) in Hinduism. So we don't need to be embarrassed about noticing it! In fact, it's just one more Lost reference to religious beliefs from many different traditions.

Posted by: macloo | May 24, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Still in a daze after thinking about this all day. I thought The End was amazing.

In a few months when I'm over it, I'll watch the series through again with a totally different look at flash sideways, which must be chock full of clues to pick up.

MeriJ: WTF *did* happen in Mullholland Drive? ;-)

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 24, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

They are a characters in the game. They don't know the rules, or the reasons behind the mysteries. They just play it as it comes.

I say game because isn't this at the heart of the story. The game between MIB and Jacob. Jacob has the power so he sets the rules at least to some extent. That power now passes to Hurley.

The statues and mysteries could be one or two reasons. (1) The island was there before Jacob. The Jacob MIB story seems to me to come long after an Egyptian time frame.
(2) The numbers and challenges are influenced by Jacob to make his game pieces stronger. Not unlike a human RPG. Characters selected by Jacob and at his will to win the game with his brother. A game that proves that people can become better together. Something that the game seemed to be meant to prove.

Others have made the rest of my opinions much clearer on the island being real, the sideways being a purgatory of sorts, and all of it being about getting Jack to go beyond. Thanks all for a great show and some great discussion.

Posted by: iodude122 | May 24, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Jack did die in the bamboo grove. Remember the tennis shoe
hanging from the bamboo as he runs out of the bamboo in
the Pilot. That same tennis shoe is still there but terribly weathered. And that is definately Oceanic 815 on the beach as they pan out. i
think it was a sad and very lonely ending as it kind of gives the feeling that when Jack dies everything else does. But this is only
Jack's story and the people in the waiting room are important to Jack. And notice no one there from his pre island life except his
dad which jibes with why Jacob chose them. They were alone and flawed. I suppose if when they panned to the beach we had seen
Rose and Bernard looking for Vincent we would have felt a little
better.

Posted by: dtaylor2010 | May 24, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

PortlandMaine: "MeriJ: WTF *did* happen in Mullholland Drive? ;-)"

Ah...one of my all-time favorite films. Also the first night I met one of my fave girlfriends, Naomi Watts. Such a honey.

Sadly enough she dies in the opening image. The rest is all progress (to get back to that ending).


Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to study how people's belief in a God/afterlife parallels their reaction to the LOST finale; I'm sure there's a correlation. To me this whole show is a gigantic parallel to faith itself...

Some people (including me) are saying "beautiful, wonderful, love." Posted by: Sam888

People will take what they want and leave the rest. The Lost producers invoked a litany of secular humanists and enlightenment thinkers throughout the series. I don't believe in God. I thought the finale was "beautiful, wonderful, love" too.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 24, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

post- "I don't think the Dharma Initiative/Widmore arc was ever to be solved or answered."

LOST the Movie. Coming to a theater near you in a year or two. (Or now if you're in purgatory) It will be about the island from the perspective of Ben. We will get answers! There will be flashbacks for the Widmores and Flash forwards to Ben as #2. It will be great! While Ben explains the Others and Dharma in full. Guest appearances galore!

As to whether purgatory started in season one/episode one, or as flash sideways- that's something we can debate, and they want us to debate for a long time.

Great writing, great story, great fun!

Posted by: KevinAF | May 24, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Oh by the way- the fact that the one month on the island was the best time of Boone's life...sad.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 24, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I agree with ALMOST everything about the main concensus...sideways world = purgatory like waiting room. Island = Real. Jack died on the island and everyone else could have died ealier/later, etc... The one thing I disagree is that Hurley and Ben are still alive. Yes, Hurley may have had the ability to go in and out of realities as the protector of the island...but if that was the case than why did Libby and Desmond have to make him realize it in the first place. If he was alive and just moving between "worlds" he would have been aware of it the whole time.

He's now dead (as is Ben who is not able to move on for one reason or another)...but it could have been 5000 years later for him...there's no time, remember.

Posted by: hoovk | May 24, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Last comment (I hope) - Mulholland Drive put me in mind of it - if Jen or Liz gets props for figuring Jack's eye would be one of the last shots (seems like a no brainer!) -
- I want credit for my sideways world-Vanilla Sky-lucid dream interpretation a couple months ago. That was pretty close!

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 24, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Coming next;

Ben and Hurley in an odd-couple remake!

I think the show was unnecessarily confusing.

The writers probably started with a grand vision but clearly lost track of their storylines. Most storylines were just jettisoned and ignored in an attempt to get their story back on track. I'm guessing it was the same guy who wrote that horribly convoluted, time-travelling-two-spocks-at-one-time Star Trek episode.

I'm guessing that was the young guy on the pre-show who looked absolutely frighttened. Now I know why.

I suspect that the studio head busted on the producers to make the writers pull their heads out of their rear-ends and just end the show somehow before the key advertisers pulled out. So we got this weird Season 6.

Posted by: BattleOffSamar | May 24, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I have to admit that I have not read all of the thoughts posted here at this time although I do intend to. I just wanted to say that I think any idea that says that they were not all dead from the very beginning is fataly flawed. There are several reasons why I think this but the biggest ones are the fact that the whole ending of the finale was showing Jack, in the same place and the exact same circumstances he was in from the pilot episode. You see things such as the shoe hanging from the tree, the dog coming to Jack's side to lay with him as he dies, etc... . The end credits of the show also showed all of the wreckage of the plain again only this time there was no commotion. Nobody running around frantic, they all died there. Also, if you watched Mathew Fox (Jack) on Jimmy Kimmel live, which aired just after the finale, Mr. Fox sayed that the writers had told him that Jack was dead from the very beginning. If I understand correctly he was the only one of the cast that new that and I believe that is because it essentially all revolved around him. These are of course merely my thoughts and I enjoy reading about this show that to me goes down as the best of all time. Thank you very much and here's to sitting down and watching all of the rerunds to see things we may not have picked up on,
John.

Posted by: racerjohn | May 24, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I might buy in to some of the explanations posted here, which does not make the ending any less lame, but I can think of no practical reason why Jack would have Juliet as the mother of his nonexistent son. He knew she was with Sawyer, and he obviously was supposed to end up with Kate.

Posted by: lashadow | May 24, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Why did MiB become Smokey when dropped in the cave and Des and Jack didn't? MiB killing "mom" could be part of the answer but I would probably lean toward the fact that he likely died on the way down and his death was the key variable in the equation. Like crashing hero, I'm not satisfied with any theory I've read or thought but...

I'm actually a bit surprised that I don't care more about the details that weren't answered. I do understand legitimate frustrations of many that so many mysteries were left unresolved but the ending, to me, recast the series in a different light enough such that these details are actually not so important as they were prior to the finale. The journey, growth and redemption were most important. The crazy island was the vehicle. As for the island? Darlton leaves us wondering about this REAL island with REAL mysteries, that exists somewhere, sometime and has seen countless people come and go and likely continues to see people come and go and be changed for it and that just stays on the cusp of our imagination.

Maybe I'll be more critical in a few days, or weeks but, like the Losties, I'm at peace with The End.

Posted by: fushigi13 | May 24, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I heard two women discussing the last episode in the supermarket this morning. One said to the other, "I just wasted six years". Maybe that was the best summary of all.

Posted by: Pearl77 | May 24, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Hmm. I didn't find it that confusing. Christian explained to his son, after confirming to Jack that Jack was dead, that all the others were, too but that some died "before you and others long after".

So this Sideways Holding Purgatory Pen could have existed for aeons as far as I know.

If what happened really happened (as Christian said it did) - then Boone, for example had got to Sidewaysville a lot sooner than, say, Penny - who was alive and well in "our" time as far as we know.

But as Christian also pointed out - all of us EVENTUALLY die. And this Sideways world was a "groupthink" constructed by the Oceanic group. That's why I think latecomers like Miles, Charlotte and Daniel Faraday were not in that temple waiting for the "next location". They were dead, too - but not required as part of the group construct. They were peripheral to it.

As to whether the Ajira flight crashed (again)on escape - I think the ambiguous thing was the last shot of wreckage on the beach. Which wreckage?

Posted by: jqw3827 | May 24, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

eet7e said:

"I do feel like I've wasted 121.5 hours - no, MUCH MORE, than that - on the damn show because everything I analyzed and researched and theorized was all for NOTHING. It's all meaningless because we all die and "move on" anyway."
.
.
Huh. I just don't feel that way. I enjoyed all that time analyzing and researching and theorizing. I enjoyed having others point out the holes in my logic and doing so for them.

I kinda like having the "answers" still open to interpetation. That we all die and move on adds a different perspective -- the kind that Rose and Bernard found while alive -- but I wouldn't say it makes what we do in our lives less meaningful.

Everything that happened on that show is still meaningful to me.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

There's a lot of "Christian says" here, but why should I believe Christian Shepherd? We believed Jacob, MIB, Richard, Widmore, Daniel, etc. and was everything they said the real explanation of what was happening? Jack died when Oceanic 815 crashed. His final thoughts were of how he, as a doctor who saved lives, wanted to get up and save others plus where was his father's coffin/body that he was accompanying home, and from that he constructed an entire elaborate storyline as he lay dying. It WAS all about Jack, the rest was just "progress" toward the ONE end -- Jack's.

Posted by: red_hawk1968 | May 24, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Six Feet Under's finale:

I'm repeating a comment from last night, but Six Feet Under was even more upsetting. I guess I can't say why, in case it would be a spoiler for anyone.

But if you loved the show and saw that ending, you know what I mean. Death is inevitable for us mortals, but damn, it's deeply upsetting to face that simple fact with grace.

That was a show specially about death -- each episode opened with someone dying. Even so, I was not prepared for the ending. It was beautifully touching and so well done.

Yet I hated it. Loved it, appreciated it, but hated it nonetheless.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

"It seems pretty obvious that the plane doesn't make it."

What's obvious about that? I think it's the exact opposite. I think we are led to believe that Ajira plane did make it off the island and those on it went on to live their lives and when they did finally die (could have been years later) they ended up in the sideways place. Same with Hurley and Ben. They could have taken care of the island for 100 years and still would have had to go to the sideways place in order to really "let go." Yes, they are all dead in the sideways timeline, but as previous posters pointed out, Christian said "some died before you, some after. There is no now here." I think that's the key. What happened, happened. All of our Losties died at different times but ended up here to wait for each other so they could cross into eternity together. So there's no reason to believe that just because we saw Aaron there as a baby that he didn't go on to lead a long happy life with Claire and Kate as his moms.

Posted by: missyaucla | May 24, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the birth/death of Aaron in the sideways world, Aaron was not "reborn" nor did he die as a newborn. Claire wasn't even really pregnant - it was all made up. She re-lived her pregnancy and the birth of Aaron in the sideways purgatory, because that was the state she needed to be in, in order to remember her island life (not to mention Kate and Charlie as well). It is just like Jack's son - he was never real. Jack's son was part of the purgatory's construct (that I think was created in part by Jack himself, because the reltionship Jack had with his son was the kind of relationship he always wanted with his own father, but I digress). So, in reality, Claire and Kate flew back safely from the island to the real world, raised Aaron, he grew old and died, as did Kate and Claire (further evidence of this is seen when Kate touched Jack's face to try to get him to remember her and she stated "i've been waiting so long for you"...so long because she got to live a long life off island). But my point is Aaron was not reborn in sideways purgatory - that was all just part of the purgatory construct.

Posted by: visionary1 | May 24, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Based on the three WaPo articles today, there have been well over 450 comments. Did this show engage you or what? As Meri noted, lots of new people commenting today, many with excellent theories/thoughts.

I've already indicated above, I was completely satisfied with the ending. I know others disagree. I can understand your perspective. But, to me, the character development was just as good, and important, as the SyFy.

I have not been able to do other than skim the commentary. One thing I haven't seen discussed, but could have missed, is what could be Eloise' role in the sideways world, if any. I think she was always an entirely different person than everyone else in that she seems to have been someone able to travel thru time, and perhaps realities. Based upon her interaction with Desmond in two shows this season, including last night, she seems to be operating in the sideways world with a clear understanding of what the sideways world is; ie., some type of holding room. Perhaps she got that knowledge because she eventually died, went there, and then had her big revelatory moment. I don't think that is the case though. My take, sideways world is not the construct of the Oceanic crash victims or just Jack or even residents of the island from all periods of time. Rather, sideways world is a creation of Eloise herself, set up so that she can allow Daniel to "live" a full and fulfilling life. But this elaborate world had to include known folks from Daniel's past, which is where the Losties came in. Clearly, Eloise was concerned that Desmond was going to muck things up and take Daniel away. I am wondering if Daniel himself knew about the "reality" of sideways world because I recall him saying something to Desmond (?) earlier in the season to the effect that "what if this world wasn't what it seemed.?" This could simply be that he was having premonitions of what was to come but hadn't had his "big reveal" yet. That might come when he actually talks to, or touches, Charlotte. We saw some hint of that during the concert when he saw her in the audience. My point, maybe the sideways world was simply a masterplan effected by Eloise to give Daniel a life. Or not.


Posted by: dojemc | May 24, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Many have questioned the church where the final meeting takes place. Go back and look in the room Jack's dad's coffin was in. If you'll notice, there are many items that are of many faiths in that room. You'll see Christian items, as well as a Budda, menorraha, and push pause and look at the stained glass window. In the panes are a star and crescent, representative of Buddaism, a cross, an arabaic-muslim symbol, a Jewish star of David, a yin and yang, and last but not least, a spoked wheel which wikipedia defines as follows: In Buddaism, it represents "the turnings of the wheel of Dharma" Interesting. This "church" seems to be a holding room for the here-after of all faiths and races...interesting! Definately not the window of a "regular" church...

Posted by: baduckfan | May 24, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

For those that are still debating if Jack died from the plane crash or later, did anybody take note of his clothing? In the pilot episode, Jack was wearing a suit. In the series finale, he was wearing a blue t-shirt and jeans. I would think this means he "lived" on the island, and ultimately died from the MIB's stab wound. This would mean the island wasn't "purgatory." Also, the flash sideways, couldn't they have just been each character's thoughts as they were dying about how they could have lived their lives? Any thoughts?

Posted by: kbaird7 | May 24, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

> Also, the flash sideways, couldn't they have just been each character's thoughts as they were dying

That was pretty much WTF was happening in Mulholland Drive. I don't think it applies here, but I loved the idea in Mulholland.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Great point about the clothes, though. Take note, Hank Stuever!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

If you want to understand the meaning of the end of this series, I suggest you rent and watch all of "St. Elsewhere."
It has a similar ending.

Posted by: astronerd1 | May 24, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Ladies, I think your assumption that the plane never made it safely to land is incorrect. Each individual lived their lives. How we don't know. When Jack asked his father if they were all dead, Christan replied that some died before him and others a long time afterwards. So I think sideways world was sometime far into the future. Hurley and Ben might have lived hundreds of years, just like Jacob and Richard. The catalyst that brought them all together was Desmond.

Posted by: lostincanada | May 24, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Didn't see Mulholland Drive or St. Elsewhere, but did anybody see the movie Passengers? Same concept!

Posted by: kbaird7 | May 24, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm assuming the St. Elsewhere post was sarcasm, but maybe not.

They ended by suggesting the entire show had been the wandering thoughts of an autistic boy gazing in a glass snow globe.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

All you Losties who hungered for answers instead of questions should have been fans of 24. Lost had a feel-good finale. 24's finale went out in a blaze of glory. Jack Bauer's final conversation with Chole was more heartfelt and sincere than any of the closing speeches on Lost.

You want an ending with more questions than answers" Watch Lost.

You wnat an ending with more answers than questions? Watch 24.

The finales of the two series proved why Lost has the SECOND most loyal following on television...AFTER 24.

In case you're wondering, I've long since voted with my wallet.

I'll *probably* buy the Lost DVDs.
I *already* own the 24 DVDs for seasons 1-5.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | May 24, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

My boys and I rented the first 3 discs of Season One, but Kiefer Sutherland's acting was so weak we couldn't get past the first one. Everything seemed so TV. I guess we should have started with one of the later seasons.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 24, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Merij, that is EXACTLY astronerd1's point. The Lost finale left viewers with many questions.

If you're comfortable -- as I am -- finishing with a host of questions, then the finale was great.

If you're not, the finale of St. Elsewhere, in which the writers bail out on any resolution, is your cup of tea.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | May 24, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

I never saw St. Elsewhere, but I would loved to have been a fly on the wall when that hit the fan!

You have to admit, St. Elswehere, Newhart, Sopranos -- those ending took some ballz. I realize many saw them as FUs to the fans, but you have to admire the nerve.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 12:03 AM | Report abuse

I stopped watching LOST sometime during season 3, because I knew there was no way it would ever be tied up into a reasonable ending. The finale seemed just as jumbled and incoherent as I expected it would turn out when I gave up several years ago.

Really, what the hell was that waterfall/cave thing? It looked like something from a cheap amusement park. A letdown after the first season's fantastic production (the plane wreckage of the first episode was amazing)

I will give credit for the final image being the same as the opening image - starting and ending in the same place has merit. But I don't think this topped the brilliant finales of the Sopranos and the Wire.

Posted by: howellb1 | May 25, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

to all who are certain Jack died at the beginning because he was lying in the bamboo field, read kbaird7 and others. Pay attention to the clothes. In the Pilot, Jack is wearing a dark suit and a white dress shirt. In pretty good condition, as I recall. And yes, that the first thing he sees is Vincent. He also has an injury on his back, left side -- the one Kate stitched. In the END, it's true that he is again in the bamboo field, but he is wearing a dark blue T shirt and jeans. If he died right away, it would be rather difficult to get up and change clothes! Also, his injury now is on the front, right side. Vincent returns, but he is living with Rose & Bernard and I THINK their hut is near the bamboo field?? No one knows what's true (and I'll bet the writers don't either), but you'll need other evidence to claim that Jack was really dead all along. I think the place of his death and the presence of Vincent was just Jack's character coming full circle. And I agree with others (ooh, that word) who think the final scene of the crash site was just an homage to everything the Losties experienced -- where it all began. It looked "old" to me. No rubbish, no bodies ... just a memory.

Posted by: fairfax51 | May 25, 2010 2:02 AM | Report abuse

Guys, I think the answer is pretty clear: no, the directors didn't give the answers because they don't have them but there's more to it. I won't repeat the endless thread of unsolved mysteries but they are... countless. Yet this is not only proof that they screwed up the script and were juggling with ideas they didn't think through and mostly dropped them unanswered. Surely they did that too. But the real point is not this. The real point is that Lost is really about interpretation and everyone may see what they want inside. There is no single overarching explanation. This may be hard to swallow for us and it is not even clear whether this is intentional on the part of the directors or just the result of their messing up. But the end result is the same: no one, including them and the actors obviously has a satisfying narrative for every mysteries. Or instead there are as many narratives as viewers. It's not like a mystical scripture where there really is a hidden meaning but it's just difficult to get it. It's just an unprecedented way of making a story work: throwing up elements which everyone can assemble in different ways. In short THERE IS NO SINGLE SOLUTION but THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT.

Posted by: szezonmeister | May 25, 2010 5:49 AM | Report abuse

"to all who are certain Jack died at the beginning because he was lying in the bamboo field, read kbaird7 and others. Pay attention to the clothes." posted by fairfax51

I've watched the last scene half a dozen times on Hulu and totally agree - not just Jack's clothes and the very weathered-looing sneaker still hanging from the bamboo - also the old-looking wreckage of 815 on the beach. Who said it was still smoking?? Absolutely not.

Finally regarding the winglets on the Ajira plane - you would not be able to see them from Jack's position on the ground, directly under the belly of the plane. So yes that was Lapidus and crew airborne and on their way.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 25, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Why I’m Loving the Finale More With Each Day

It took a few days to sink in. But the idea that they waited for one another before “letting go” is extremely moving to me. I get choked up every time I try to explain it to someone who asks me “so what happened in the Lost finale?”

During the episode, the only clue I had that something was terribly different than I’d expected was Locke’s comment, “Jack, you don’t have a son.” That was like a siren going off. But I didn’t know what it meant. Turns out it meant that Jack always wished he’d had a son. And then I choke up thinking about that.

Kate at the church, telling Jack “I missed you so much.” She might have lived another 40 years without him. And I choke up again.

Sun and Jin, Sawyer and Juliet. The tears keep rolling.

Hurley and Ben might have lived together for another 500 years.

Shannon instead of Nadia was not the call I’d have made. But I guess it makes sense if you consider that the intense bond the larger group had for one another was associated with their time on the island.

I really have to watch it again. After I stock up on tissues.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

The unanswered questions seemed pretty clear to me, and i think you two hit on it- it was all from Jack's perspective. We don't know any more of the secrets of the island than the pople that were living on it.

We're just used to having an omniscient perspective in our shows. This one was really just a perspective of the people there.

Posted by: ronibwh | May 25, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Mortality and “Six Feet Under” – spoiler alert

The heck with it. I’ll just tell you, because it’s relevant. The title of SFU’s last episode was “Everybody’s Waiting.” Remember that this was a show about death, as seen through the lives of a family-operated funeral home.

In the last minutes of the finale, they show each characters’ moment of death. One dies tragically two or three decades later, but most live into old age and die pretty much exactly as they would have wanted.

But even knowing that, it was so extremely upsetting to watch. I was torn up for days. Mortality is truly a b!tch, if only for those of us who are left behind.

Until you lose a loved one, you can’t really understand how it feels. We know it will happen someday, but it’s very different when it does. Both my parents died this last decade, and even at the reasonably young age of 52, I can see that my own death is not as far off as it once seemed. Dying is scary, but knowing how my children will feel when I go upsets me even more. One of my closest friends lost his 16-year old son to a car accident a month ago, which is simply unimaginable.

The idea that all the characters on Lost eventually die is hardly a shocker. Seeing them in the church and knowing therefore that it had already happened was nonetheless sad to me. But realizing that they cared enough about one another to move on together was achingly beautiful.

I think it was a great ending.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ, couldn't agree more. When the final finally ended, I was really upset. I was ready to give 'The End' high marks, until they started messing with us -- a la Locke's remark to Jack that he had no son, and Dad later telling Jack that "they're all dead". I was infuriated, thinking that LindeCuse lied about Lost not being a series about deadmen walking, or Pam Ewing's dream year, or the St Elsewhere snow globe. Alhtough, in hindsight, we had clues to the contrary, I had hoped the Sideways stories were real. I liked that Jack had a son, I liked that Sawyer had an honest job and I hoped that, in the end, a memory of the very brief time they had on the island would somehow meld with the present, that Sawyer would meet up with Juliet again, that Jin would see his daughter, that Penny & Des would be reunited, etc. So with Christian's speech I felt cheated. But then, as I saw the scene with Jack dying in the bamboo, smiling as he saw a plane fly overhead, I thought, wait a minute ... there's more going on here. And so there was. I wasn't sad that Jack died. He was a tragic hero throughout the 6 seasons, by this time he had saved the island and 'fixed' as many people has he could. He did his job.

However, the viewers were battered around so much during the run of the show I wish the writers would have been a bit easier on us, if only for a moment -- for instance -- showing one of our main characters as an old person, fading into death and having memories of a time when they were young, on the island ... this technique has been done many times, but it would have made our post-mortem discussions a bit easier! I am also disappointed that we did not get more answers to Island mysteries.

So here we are, two days after the end of the program and we are still hashing over issues we will never get answered. Pretty powerful statement for the hold of Lost!

Posted by: fairfax51 | May 25, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Okey dokey.
I've skipped the analysis and the comments for now.
Will write my quick theory and then later, when I have time, will dissect other people's takes of the whole series. In the end, I think that the actual island and everything that happened on it was real. Dharma and the Others were there, the O6 really returned to LA and then returned to the island, the Akira plane and its passengers actually escaped. Jack died (maybe the plane he saw overhead was the Akira plane), Vincent lived, etc. Which makes those still living on the island: Hurley as #1, Ben as # 2 (shades of Star Trek or the Prisoner for that matter) , Bernard and Rose, and of course, Vincent. Everyone else died (except maybe Widmore!) on the island. And maybe Hurley is able to let people travel back and forth between the island in the future. (By the way, Hurley has taken on a very St Peter role in that he did not wanting (denying) the Jacob role at first. Oh and some dead people are still on the island, Michael, Isabella, etc and are able to communicate (especially with Hurley).
Now for the interpretation of LAX and sideways world. It's Purgatory where people wait to pass over (through the golden door). While waiting, they can create another version of their life.
When everyone gathered at the church, they were doing so after they died, no matter when they died. In other words, they arrived to that place at the same "now" no matter when they actually died. Christian said something to the effect: "This is now, not when." So Boone arrived from his earlier death, Jack from his "present death", others (Hurley, Ben, Kate, James, etc) from their "future" deaths. All to the same "now" to pass over because they shared a significant experience at the place of the origin of the golden light. Perhaps that light is what helps all humans "pass over" and why it had to be protected {but never entered into because it would cause death to that person who got too close to it (Jack, Desmond)}. Whew. That's all for now.
A couple of questions that I would have liked to see answered: Why were the Others kidnapping children? How did Locke survive the gut shot from Ben? Why was Locke killing his father regarded as such a noble thing by the others? Why did such a powerful man as Widmore end up hiding in a closet and supposedly die that way? It seemed like the rivalry between him and Ben never fully got the attention it deserved. (I like that Ben's numerous attempts to kill Locke were somewhat anesred in front of the church).
I would appreciate comments on my post!

Posted by: drzook | May 25, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

I think half of the show was character based, and half of the show was mystery based. The difference between this show and every other show is the mystery and questions. I loved the character arc, but that was only half of the show. We wanted answers on the other half. People (including me) studied the numbers, studied different names, books, songs, etc.. to figure out different questions, when in the end, none was answered. I don't know if the audience brought on all these mysteries, and the producers decided not to tell us "there is no mystery". But I would have been 100% satisfied, if the island was just an island, the people survived and died on for verious nutural reasons and then seen in the end they were all dead. There was no need for time travel, Jacob, Mib, the light, the numbers, etc...

Posted by: armous | May 25, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ and Fairfax51, I am so with you guys. I left feeling a little shaken; I have the same troubles coping with my own mortality, and so it was sad to me to be reminded that they all were dead (even if decades later), and that they didn't get those "happier" endings in life -- Jack never had a son, Sun and Jin never got to raise their daughter, Hurley and Libby never got together, etc.

But by the next day, I was practically flying, because of the hope it left in me. Not of the "you'll see your friends after you die" bit -- I wish I believed that, but I don't. But about the whole cyclical nature of it all, which of course they emphasized by ending the story where it began, with Jack's eye, the shoe, the plane on the beach, etc. The island is still out there in Lost-world, if another group of lonely, disconnected, flawed people needs to re-start the cycle. And Hurley, of all people, is in charge! It seemed like the start of a new, more hopeful cycle. Like Jacob said, it only ends once -- and they ended that cycle. But the life, the power, the hope -- it's all still out there in Lost-land.

And, really, isn't that what we all want? We know we are flawed; we want connections, but get in our own way. We seek purpose, but fear maybe we don't have one -- maybe it really doesn't matter anyway, because we're all going to die in the end. That's why we find hero quests, good literature, and religion so compelling: they promise purpose, connection, meaning.

This is a TV show. It's not real. And yet, over the past few years, I came to care about these characters. So to me, it was incredibly satisfying to see at the end that they had found and fulfilled their purposes, made those connections, find meaning in their lives -- all that stuff that I can never get for sure in my own life. And then to leave it with good old Hurley in charge, waiting for the next crew that needs him; well, it makes me laugh with joy just to think about it.

Posted by: laura33 | May 25, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

In regard to the end of my 5/25, 1:45 post, I meant to write: "(I like that Ben's numerous attempts to kill Locke were somewhat answered in front of the church)." I also liked different symbols in the church room that represented different beliefs.
Namaste.

Posted by: drzook | May 25, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I haven’t read all of the comments (just some of the initial reaction) but I think that ooyah32 has basically nailed it (May 24, 2010 12:28 AM). I think that to take into account some of inconsistencies which I and others have noticed; could be resolved by noting that Lost is a Jack centered show (Nickel02908 | May 24, 2010 1:07 AM). I also liked some of the theological musings by dogfreid (May 24, 2010 2:00 AM).

Yes it would have been nice to have more of our questions answered, but as numerous individuals have stated, that is what Lost is. Lost was more about the individuals and their stories, many of the questions that we developed through the years were just addressing the “window dressing” of the show. When it comes to answers; I was able to answer about 85% of the 100 questions that had been posted elsewhere and I am sure that those of you who watch the show much closer than I do have probably done much better.

I also that that it was interesting that individuals who admit that they did not watch the entire 6 seasons, or even less, felt that they can accurately comment on a show or feel that the show was a waste of time, etc. Why did they watch the finale????? I watched the first three seasons of 24 but for different reasons did not continue to watch the show. I did not watch the show’s finale and I have no interest in commenting on any of that show’s blogs, it just wouldn’t make any sense.

I am still thinking about the show and the finale. I will definitely watch “The End” again very soon and though I have only watched the episodes of all the seasons just one time, will look forward to reviewing all via DVD; of one of the best shows to ever show on TV.

Posted by: AlfromAlexandria | May 25, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Question to all:

If Anthony Cooper had an actual relationship with John Locke in sideways world, and ended up in a nursing home after the accident, it seems safe to presume that Cooper was not a bad guy in sideways world: Then what was Sawyer doing in Australia looking for Cooper?

And wouldn't a convalescing man be easy to find if you really put some effort into it?

Posted by: megman | May 25, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

drzook -- great post. I can answer one question. The Others took children because the women in their group could not deliver live babies. In fact I believe the pregnant women always died by the third trimester. This is why Juliet was brought to the island, because she was a fertility specialist. They took kids to have another generation on-site. As for the Widmore-Ben rivalry, I think the writers dropped the ball on this one. It was too large a storyline to ignore, but they did. As for how Locke survived Ben's gunshot wound, I don't know. Maybe he was already gaining special "island protection" by then? Here's something else I just thought of. While Locke was lying among the Dharma corpses, just after being shot, Walt appeared. What was that? And who was that? Because by this time, Walt was supposed to be alive and happy with his grandma living in New York (or LA, or somewhere far from the island).

Posted by: fairfax51 | May 25, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

There were many symbols in the series,I need to watch all the seasons again.
In the last episode,there were even Buddhist symbols that reminded me of the cycle of life (or cycle of suffering,also called Samsara).Those, who are able to "let go of attachments" and escape the cycle,reach the so called enlightenment.They all (sooner or later)let go and find each other in the end.And was it just a coincidence that the name of the initiative was Dharma? Dharma is a system of teachings that help one reach personal liberation and enlightenment.
I'm not saying that what happened in the series was entirely according to any religious or philosophical beliefs,but I would suggest that we can get a lot of answers with a proper interpretation of the symbols.
What made me wonder the most,was the presence (and the missing) of certain people in the church.

Posted by: Annie084 | May 25, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Love you guys:

laura33: I love the way you think and admire the way you write. You've got great rhythm.
.
.
So where are some of the others we're used to reading here? Overwhelmed by the number of comments? Underwhelmed by the show? Haven't seen it yet?

And speaking of the long lost bevjims, whatever happened to this season's mia33?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Did Liz and Jen even read the instant reactions?

Finally, on the subject of Jen and Liz still having it wrong by the next morning, how could they ask for instant reactions from us to help them prepare their analysis and not have read ooyah32's repeated efforts to point out that the characters were not dead on the island?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

i'm here! LOVED the finale and just too frustrated with people (especially jen and liz, as much as i love them!) mis-understanding what i thought was blatant... THEY WERE ALIVE ON THE ISLAND. sideways was "purgatory" or whatever you wanna call it. just can't beleive there's so much confusion over it.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 25, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Jen and Liz: I blame it on that Hank Stuever guy. He got to them somehow.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

************for anyone who thinks they were dead all along, or just for anyone who wants a quick, crisp, cohesive summary and EXPLANATION to the whole show and some general mysteries... PLEASE READ THIS NOW. it is apparently from a writer who worked on the show (scroll down to the area that is in italics and on the light-brown back drop).

http://geeksofdoom.com/2010/05/24/did-you-hate-the-lost-finale-read-this-may-you-discover-enlightenment/#more-52558

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 25, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I was as moved by the resolution as you MeriJ. I'm still thinking about it a lot.

One of the still sad parts to me is that the sideways world wasn't "real." As others have said, I wanted the characters to have experienced the happiness or peace that they had been largely denied.

When Locke told Jack, "you don't have a son," it was like a cold hand gripped my heart. It only released when Vincent trotted out and lay down next to Jack. Unspeakably beautiful.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 25, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Hey, all. Liz and I were writing in a haze of tears and no sleep; not a great excuse, but the truth.

It took the clarity of an hour or two of sleep, and non-weeping, to allow me to fully grasp what I had seen. As I think we noted in the discussion yesterday, I completely agree that everyone died at different times, and the Ajira plane got off the island and that the sideways world was a waiting zone for Jack. I wish I had been able to process that within an hour of watching it and been able to articulate that more clearly in this post.

But does saying so now redeem us, even a wee bit? Not so much? Oh well. Either way, it's been gratifying having this dialogue and I love that it's still going on more than a day since this post went live.

Posted by: Jen_Chaney | May 25, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Jen posted here!!!!

Shock of shocks. You guys rock. No worries.

But if you want a worthwhile assignment to get out of the doghouse, find out whether Jere1570' link is for real. If so, it is essential reading. Actually it is even if fake. The guy quoted there claims to have been associated with the show.

He says the following:

"But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it."

Whoa.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

I have no idea if this is accurate, but on Jimmy Kimmel, Matthew Fox said that "he always knew" his character would end itself (die, I think he meant) with Jack lying down on the island with a close-up of his eyes closing. Matthew then said that he never told the other cast members. I don't know if he was told this by the producers & writers, or if was a strong hunch. But if he was actually told, then it sounds like it supports the comments above that the producers/writers had the ending all along. They have already admitted that "Ben" was only planned for 4 episodes. i am sure that many characters and plots were made up and added -- or dropped -- as they went along.

But this happens. JK Rowling says she 'knew' the ending to Harry right from the start, although I have read that she wavered a bit about whether to kill off any of the main kids (glad she didn't). So back to Lost. It would not suprise me if they at least envisioned how they wanted to end the story as soon as they developed it. Besides, they had no idea how long the series would last, if at all.

Posted by: fairfax51 | May 25, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ-

agreed, whether the author worked on the show as a writer or not, they sure nailed it on every single peice he/she wrote about. definitely essential reading with some great insights as the the "bigger picture" ... which even as an avid LOST fan with multiple full season re-watches under his belt, it really helped me put *everything* into perspective.

and Jen- no harm meant by my comment, you're redeemed just for having this blog for us to read and post for the past 4 years... so thank you!

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 25, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Liz: "Just insert this big long shaft into this hole in mother earth and, well, I think you get the point."

Jen: "Phallic symbollish, you mean? My mind is clearly just as messed-up as yours..."

Ladies! Sometimes a large rock shaped like a cork is just a large rock shaped like a cork! And it was meant to stay in. It kept the water from mixing with the light.

Remember about water mixing with the light? That was what MIB explained to his step-mommy about the wheel they were going to mount in the wall next to the light. By adjusting the water going into the light they would be able to get off the island. And we know the wheel getting off its axis allowed time travel, so water mixing with the light allowed that too.

So, when Des uncorked the light water went in, a lot of water. So much that the island started to fall apart. Still not clear why the island is important to anyone except those on it. So what if it sunk. Flocke was dead. The plane took off. Saving the island for Hurley to care for seems rather unimportant, especially when the numbers seem to have meant nothing. I agree with a previous poster. Lost was all a long con.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 25, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

fairfax51: thanks for your response to my post. {I had been wanting to write on other episodes, but wasn't able to get through(?).
In answer to your post/question: I think Walt as the youngest/innocent/least flawed castaway, received a special gift/connection to the island and was able to stay in touch with it. And therefore, was able to visit Locke in his wounded state. He was always Locke's friend when he was on the island. Maybe he was even the one who healed Locke in the pit? I think that's why Locke took time to visit him off-island, because they both had a special connection to the island. I think Walt's "specialness" was also one of the reasons why the Others wanted him (maybe even on orders from Jacob).
Also interesting in that of the four Oceanics that were on the Others' kidnap list were two of Jacob's successors and the other two were the only island survivors from the Oceanic flight (oh except for Walt, the special one, who was with the Others then anyhow ).
Regarding your other post about MF's appearance on Kimmel:
I always had a very strong feeling that the last scene was going to be Jack laying down in the bamboo grove and closing his eyes. Just wasn't sure if he was going to die, I actually thought more that he was going to go to sleep. I also felt that Fox's comments were most revealing: at one point I think he said everything that happened on the island was real.

Posted by: drzook | May 25, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Fate1:

I think it all meant something.

Follow this link that Jere1570 posted and then come back and tell us what you think. There are two parts, the blog writer's thoughts and a repost of the guy alleging to have worked in some capacity on the show:

http://geeksofdoom.com/2010/05/24/did-you-hate-the-lost-finale-read-this-may-you-discover-enlightenment/#more-52558


Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

The blog owner from the original posting site claims the “I worked on Lost” poster is legit.

The original post was on a Buffalo Bills sports site. The blog owner says this guy (tgreg99) has been posting reliable info for six years. So, his claims are still not necessarily for real, but they seems more plausible than I thought at first. It’s also true that he could be a partial insider but not entirely correct in what he thinks or remembers.

I would still start at the link that Jere1570 gave us, because the writer there has so many great observations (i.e., they sync with what I think!) but here’s where the alleged insider first posted his bombshell:

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?s=472aea0b678b8f3cd2f8d3e8687a9eb9&showtopic=102576&st=1020&p=1867089&#entry1867089

C’mon, Fate1, don’t abandon us now! You know Lowes is totally sold out of pitchforks anyway.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

OK, he works at Bad Robot (JJ Adams' production company) but is not a writer. In fact he says he is totally insignicant there, but apparently was in the know nonetheless.

I'm going to post more of what he's said this afternoon. I hope he doesn't lose his job over this, but it's all over the Internet at this point...

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Question to tgreg99:

"Can you explain more about the concept of how the island keeps the balance of good and evil. Presumably, keeping the "light lit" is important towards that end? Ie., normally it needs to stay lit - but what would normally happen if it goes out? When you pull the plug the island gets destroyed - but what else happens to upset the balance of good and evil in the world? As you say, the MiB was an anomoly - so the effects of pulling the plug and making him mortal so he could be killed etc. etc. was a very unique, specific case. How does evil get unleashed on the world in a non-MiB scenario/era if the island is not protected? - how does the island's light/energy keep the balance?"

His answer: "It was said in the Jacob episode (and many previous ones) that the island's unique properties draws men to it. Men who wish to exploit it. Will be corrupted by it. And, they will, if left unchecked, put out that light which will unleash the evil that the island is keeping in check. That's why there needs to be a protector. Because man's inherent nature is to destroy. Which, was always the MIB's argument with Jacob."

"Yet, Jacob was ultimately proven right in that his candidates found the good inside them to ward off the temptation and redeme their pasts. In that metaphorical way, it's kinda beautiful. Not to get all literary on you -- but this was written by dudes who love great literature more than great TV shows."

"It's a very biblical story in that the island in many ways is the representation of original sin. And the only way to prevent the devil from winning is to find one "protector" of the garden of eden willing to rise above their very own base instincts. So the canidates are really our saviors more than our Gods (for those that like to think Jacob was a God moreso than a man)."

"I'm rambling now ... but that's the basics of it."


End quote

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Question to tgreg: "Since Smoke Monster was taking the form of Locke, how did Smoky turn mortal when the light went off? If anything Locke should have turned back into smoke."

His answer:

"Well because the light was the power that robbed the MIB of his body. His humanity as he put it. It also was what gave him the power to morph forms and jump from dead body to dead body. So when he possessed the body of Locke, his consciousness was trapped in that mortal coil when the light went out because with it went his power to morph into Smokey. Or any other dead body."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Question to tgreg: I would have liked to know why MIB turned into smokey for being thrown into the cave, but no one else was affected by it (save for the skeletons at the bottom).

His answer:

"That was because when the MIB went into the light, he was sent there by Jacob -- who, according to his mother's godly rules, was not allowed to kill him. Thus, the light did the only thing it could do: make him Smokey. That way he wasn't dead, but he wasn't "alive" either. He was trapped in an eternal state of flux."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

And this, posted at 2:21pm:

"No no, I'm not a writer on LOST, never written a single word for the show. I was about as signifigant as a stapler. The real people who deserve all the credit are Damon, Carlton, Eddie, Adam, Liz, the great staff, cast and crew. I worked in a lot of different capacities for the company and the show but never, ever, as a writer."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Seems likely that his name is Greg Ernstrom.

Looks like he worked as a production assistant on Cloverfield and Star Trek. So a very junior staffer, but still much more in the know than any of us...

C'mon, Fate1. I'm running circles around you!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ-
Awesome homework-ing!! hope i didn't mislead anyone with my original post. the link was actually sent to me from a work-friend who said that he read the he worked on the show or something... but... i'm very glad you (and he) cleared things up!!!

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 25, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm doing this a little at a time. First here, my response to Jen and Liz's post, hopefully in somewhat of the order that they brought up these points. I may post later to other things I read later, but for now I'll just deal with what they bring up.
People actually died when they died in the specific time of the series (except for sideways time). They hadn't all died in crash.
Jack died in the last scene of finale. He then reappeared in first episode of season six sitting in the plane, in Purgatory, creating his own reality there, until he passed on with his "constants" in the church. In other words, he flew in plane over a submerged island, had a son, was less troubled in his work existence, because that was what he wanted to experience. So in season six, he was already dead in sidewayslandia, but alive on the island, until the very end. Each person's experience, when seen from their specific viewpoint, was what they wanted to experience in their sideways (purgatory) time.
People who died after the series finale at some point (maybe many years later) were: Hurley, Ben, Aaron, Penny, and others. (those four were the ones that Jen and Liz mentioned).
Lily and Fox's mention that fate kept Jack and Kate apart was fairly true: Jack died on the island and Kate flew off in the Akira plane. Last time they saw each other in real time was on the cliff side (by the ladder).
Dan Faraday, if he wasn't at the church (I'm not sure), probably didn't go with the island group because he had a stronger "constant" group to leave with, which at least included Eloise, which was alluded to in her conversation with Desmond.
MIB was probably Christian on the island, but Christian in the church was Jack's dead father.
The island was an island, filled with mystical properties because of the golden magical light.
Oh, and the cork was just a big cork to allow the water to fill to right level to interact with the light, as MIB was trying to replicate in his experiments in the colony where he lived.

Posted by: drzook | May 25, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Correction to my 1:46 post today. Christian said: "this is here, not now", which still goes along with my general theory. Also a funny take on Ram Dass's mantra: "be here now".

Posted by: drzook | May 25, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

tgreg, explaining why he had his Lost post removed (too late):

"Apparently it's gone out wider than I ever intended. And it's being misconstrued as being from the writers of the show (on other sites I guess). Which I'm not. I just wrote it up for our little community here of Bills fans and forgot that we're actually a part of a way bigger internet community. I don't want people reading it and assumming it's THE answer or from the mouths of the show. It's just my take on it. Didn't want people to get the wrong idea."

"Did not mean to cause a firestorm at all ... my apologies."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Jen responded to us!

In case you didn't notice due to the avalanche of my posts above. Go see what she said at 4:21 pm this afternoon.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

I rewatched "The End" this evening.

Wow. It is so much better than I realized that first night.

Read this blog post and then watch it again. You will thank Jere157 and me. You will realize that we were your Desmond and Hurley -- or maybe visa versa.

Trust me. You will be glad you did. Then we can leave together.

http://geeksofdoom.com/2010/05/24/did-you-hate-the-lost-finale-read-this-may-you-discover-enlightenment/#more-52558

Posted by: MeriJ | May 25, 2010 11:51 PM | Report abuse

fairfax5 said: "I wish the writers would have been a bit easier on us [...] it would have made our post-mortem discussions a bit easier!"

I've been wondering if they intended it to require multiple viewing before making sense. The LA X part was clear to me by the end, but what to make of it all has taken days and is still barely off the ground.

I even wonder if they went for a long con and expected to be misunderstood for a few days, only to be vindicated by our longer perspective.

If so, it will surely go down as one of the braver and also one of the more intellectually challenging finales of all time.

Many people believe the ending made all the earlier stuff meaningless. But it seems just the opposite to me now.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 26, 2010 1:10 AM | Report abuse

Hi from spain,
sorry if I miss some comment about this,

Kate said she was missing Jack a lot in the end. I think that means they didn't crash, I mean kate, lapidus, etc.
They lived some time after, years, in fact during the time Hurley worked as number 1 with ben and desmond.
I think everything is real except the parallel story in the earth. That seems to be a kind of limb, where they meet when dead some day to leave.
The island is real althought I would say it could be accesible thru a sworm hole only, in a specific direction. Some extraterrestrial beings put it there before the human existed. They might be indeed, our creators (or who put the seeds for the evolution)
Does it make sense?
R.

Posted by: ramonnet | May 26, 2010 1:33 AM | Report abuse

Many good comments here, some people got it, some didnt, but i guess everyone is entitled to their interpretation. I know that they asked Mr. Ecco to come back this season, but he wanted too much money. And Walt just got too big! Otherwise, they did a good job working everyone back in, even if for very quick cameos,e.g, Neal yelling at Kate at LAX for cutting in the taxi line.

Seems like Kate and Sawyer would have ended up together since they were the only survivors of that love quadrangle, but may be not. And i like the idea of a Hurley & Ben sequel, even if there is no one left on the island to rule over, except maybe a a few surviving 'Others' (What happened to Cindy and the 2 kids??)

Posted by: dsimmonsla | May 26, 2010 3:54 AM | Report abuse

drzook, I think you have it just right. The sideways flash is what the castaways wished had happened, instead of what did. I can even reconcile Juliet being Jack's ex in this scenario because they did have a connection and perhaps Jack had hoped at some point to see that through.

The only disagreement I have with you is that as ramonnet says, the sideways world is perhaps more accurately a limbo state rather than Purgatory.

As least as far as Dante was concerned, Purgatory exists between hell and heaven as a mountain of terraces to be scaled representing the seven deadly sins.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 26, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

MeriJ -- thanks for tracking down all that stuff! I had read the original post, but not all the follow-up. The "why did it make MIB into Smokey and not Jack and Desmond" explanation makes total sense and clears up that one little thing that had been niggling at me. You are totally my constant. :-)

Portland -- actually, I do think of it as Purgatory vs. limbo. Limbo is just a holding pen (I believe theologically speaking, it's an eternal holding pen for souls who couldn't get into heaven (like, say, unbaptized babies who had never been "saved") but didn't deserve to go to hell). Purgatory is where you actively work through the issues that are holding you back from entering heaven. Watching the LAX stuff this season, it seemed to me that the characters were still making some of the same mistakes and bad decisions that they had made earlier on the island -- the things that were keeping them apart, disconnected, unhappy. Only when they overcame those things -- remembered the connections they had made and what those meant to them -- were they able to move on. So, no, it's not the specific Catholic version, but it's still conceptually closer to a Purgatory than a Limbo (at least in my mind).

Last post, I promise (I think!), but this whole show has really made me think of Dante's concept of heaven and hell quite a bit. The most striking thing about the Divine Comedy to me was that you yourself choose where to go. In the Inferno, everyone had the view of the unfair, uncaring God who had "damned" them for something that wasn't their fault. But when you get to Paradiso, you discover that God didn't damn them; they chose it themselves, because they could not let go of that compunction or impulse. God actually sent them to the place they wanted to be -- and if they ever decided to let go of that craving, they were free to ascend to heaven.

And pretty much every single episode this season had me thinking of that. Because isn't that the story of the show? You are what you choose to be -- and if you choose to be something different, then you are something different. Which is maybe why I got all verklempt when Hurley told Sayid that he didn't need to let anyone else tell him who he was any more.

Posted by: laura33 | May 26, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Liz & Jen,
I really enjoyed your thoughts and analysis. However, i got something very different out of "The End."

I think the Flash Sideways world (afterlife) is timeless and not connected to time in the "real" world. I believe the people on the plane survived and lived their lives. I believe Jack died at the end after saving the island. I believe Hurley and Ben lived on on the island. At some point in the future, when all the "Losties" had died, the events in the Sideways world happened.

I think it is a misinterpretation to think that the events in the Sideways world and the "real" world were occurring at the same time. They weren't.

Christian told Jack that some died BEFORE Jack and some died AFTER him (this was immediately AFTER Jack had died on the island). Some lived on - i.e. those on the plane: Frank, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Claire, Desmond).

You are trying to fit the Flash Sideways in a very linear timeline to fit with the real world. They're a different world - separate from the physical one that we live in and not happening at the same time.

The scene at the end is being mis-interpreted by some as meaning that everyone died in the original plane crash. That makes no sense. Why, then would they want or need to re-connect in the Flash Sideways "afterlife" world by remembering all the events that took place on and off the island? If they all died in the plane crash, then they would have no connections and no reason to re-connect in the afterlife.

The scene at the end is kind of ironic. Just as the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 encountered other relics (plane, ship, statue, etc) and people and their stories who survived encounters with the island (Desmond, Danielle, DARMA people, the Others, etc.) the NEXT person/people who "arrive" on the island, will see exactly what we saw at the end - the remnants of the plane crash and wonder what happened here? Were there any survivors? Fortunately, Hurley and Ben will be there to tell them the story.

Obviously, I don't know any more than you do and until the writers/producers clarify, these are all just theories. I like mine and am very satisfied with it. I am also very satisfied with the conclusion of a wonderful journey on which Lost took me.

Posted by: ddocean1 | May 26, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

...Hi...Been reading your dualing analysis a long time and now I'm posting for the first, and last time: just wanted to tell Liz, regarding her comment under the headline "Echoes of episodes past", about the finale being a love letter? those were my exact words to my best friend, when I emailed her my immediate reaction; I told her "It was a love letter from CC&DL to geeks like me, who always believed Lost was about the characters, first and last"...

Posted by: anamaria3 | May 26, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

A few points:
The show is all about the journey to spiritual awakening of Jack to becomming Christ-Like (to the point of willingly sacrificing his own lif to save others). The others in the cast are there to help him reach that point. He begins his (spiritual) life on the island, and so he dies where he began, as we all end life as we began it (dust to dust). It was a metaphorical statement that he died on the spot where he awoke.

You might notice there are not many good fathers on Lost. Yet, when Jack dies, he meets God, the Father (and father), who is all good. The fathers in real life represent the relationship of modern, faithless, man with God (he sees God as demanding, uncaring, and downright mean). When Jack is truly ready, he sees what God really is: gentle and loving. We also see that the universe is not just light and darkness, but has a face, the face of God, who makes sure all is right, in the end.

Do you remember Christian Shepard asking Locke: "Ask the one question that really matters" and Locke responded "How do we save the island" ("cabin fever" episode?). In the finale, Desmond says nothing on earth matters because all is right in heaven (paraphrasing), but Jack said "it all matters". I think he means people are real and our lives and actions on earth are real and do matter to God, who was so proud of Jack in heaven. One could almost hear Christian say to Jack, as he opened the coffin in the finale "Why do you seek the living among the dead".

In any case, I think they really were alive on the island, that sidways world was the place where people to resolve and prepare and that both in the real world and in sideways world, it is the web of relationships that enabled Jack to succeed.

The series could not be more Christian. Christian is God, Jack is like Jesus, and the light is like the holy ghost. The goal it to become Christlike, the only way to salvation is through faith, etc.

I think the heiroglyph and egyption statue questions are not answered because there were a literary device to say that the island is about the ancient psyche, full of faith, in contrast to the modern, lost psyche of the 20th and 21st centuries. Heiroglphs were chosed becuase they are easily recognizable as ancient and so imply an ancient character of the island.

I also think there were MIBs before this one. Anyone who goes into the bowels of the cave becomes one and that is implied in the scene where Ben sees a drawing of a smoke monster confronting an Egyptioan god.

I observed a couple of nice touches: the world is a better place when intellect (Ben) serves compassion (Hurley) and is not off on its own. Also, it was after Locke forgave Ben at the Church that he completed his recovery and could walk into heaven. More Christian messages, there.

Posted by: daveinri0101 | May 26, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Why was a Bamboo Field chosen for Jack's entry and exit in the Lost World?

We know that the plant has special mythological significance in Eastern religions. (1) In Japan, a bamboo forest sometimes surrounds a Shinto shrine as part of a sacred barrier against evil. Many Buddhist temples also have bamboo groves. (2) Several Asian cultures, including that of the Andaman Islands, believe that humanity emerged from a bamboo stem. (3) In the Philippine creation myth, legend tells that the first man and the first woman each emerged from split bamboo stems on an island created after the battle of the elemental forces (Sky and Ocean).

This plant has a unique life cycle that ends with flowering--some species of bamboo have a 150 year cycle. According to wiki the unique life cycle ending property "indicates the presence of some sort of 'alarm clock' in each cell of the plant which signals the diversion of all energy to flower production and the cessation of vegetative growth. This mechanism, as well as the evolutionary cause behind it, is still largely a mystery."

This alarm clock in each cell reminds me of the Lost characters ending up at the church to "flower" and pass on.

Kudos to Lost producers for a great mythological story well told.

Posted by: Philo2 | May 26, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

I've read through most of the comments here and I agree that island life was indeed real because Christian clearly said to Jack at the end that "The most important part of your life, was the time that you spent with these people."

However, if you watch Christian's whole speech over again, what he says before this is contradictory and a bit misleading. Jack asks "Are you real?" Christian replies laughing "I sure hope so" and then "Yeah I’m real. You're real. Everything that’s ever happened to you is real. All those people in the church, they’re all real too."

How can he use the term 'real' to mean all of them (who are ghosts essentially) and lump that in with everything that’s ever happened (meaning, on the island?) being ‘real’ too?

I'm thinking Damon & Carlton wanted to keep it ambiguous so we'd all be debating on these blogs after :)

Posted by: Lersymar | May 26, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

If one more person posts that they didn't bother to read any of the comments yet but they have this theory that the people on the island were not dead except in LA X, I think will scream.

Sigh.

Lersymar, thank you for having the courtesy to do so before speaking. No one could be expected to read all these posts at this point. But you showed us the respect of at least reading a health sampling of them first.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 26, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

daveinri0101 said: "In the finale, Desmond says nothing on earth matters because all is right in heaven (paraphrasing), but Jack said "it all matters". "

That's a rather liberal paraphrase, brotha. I rewatched it last night, and I am almost certain that Desmond did not realize the nature of LA X in the short time he was there.

He thought being exposed to the EM in the cave would transport him back there. He saw LA X as a safe place where the plane never crashed. And Jack was there too. He thought maybe he could take Jack with him. But he didn't realize it was a post-life way station.

What struck me in the rewatch was the other line you quoted. Jack insisted that everyone we do here does matter. That spoke to me, relative to many fans' belief that the finale rendered meaningless all the action and mysteries on the island.

The Bad Robot employee was basically saying that everything on the island did matter. Dharma mattered. Keeping the evil capped mattered. It all mattered terribly.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 26, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse

I make typos in almost every single post and never bother reposting to correct them. But this one is pure gold, so I have to point it out:

"Jack insisted that everyone we do here does matter."

Well, it seems like they matter at the time. But then the alcohol wears off!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 26, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

In my rewatch, I was also struck by Juliet's words at the vending machine. I caught it the first time, but then she and Sawyer woke up and I got all weepy and forgot to pursue the implications.

She said -- refering to her technique for getting the Apollo bar to drop -- "It worked."

Then she said "we should get coffee sometime."

So, I ask you all, WTF does that mean?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 26, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

I like MeriJ's point about what is real. I think that if souls exist, then they are real, even in the afterlife; just not corporal. But, regarding behaviour, there may be a heirarchy of existence in that we are judged based on our earlthy behaviour and not on our behaviour in purgatory. Any bad behaviour in purgatory does not count as sins that must be additionally atoned for, as far as I know in most theologies; we just stay in purgatory as long as it takes until we get around to atoning for the sins on earth. So, if what they do on the island really does matter, then I think the island is on earth and the people are still flesh and blood.

Posted by: daveinri0101 | May 26, 2010 10:15 PM | Report abuse

This may sound like a copout, but this show was about theology as much as anything else. We all know that religion is good at messages and bad at logic. The after life in LAX, especially who was at the church, was somewhat paradoxical. The message is each adult was with those who were most important in their lives and they were all at the ages they were when they know each other at that time. So, Penny is there because Desmond is and he is the most important thing ever in her life. Aaron is there because Claire is, even though Aaron might have grown up and had his own adventures and left as an adult with a different group of souls. Paradox, but religion is full of them. The message is clear, but the how is all about faith.

Posted by: daveinri0101 | May 26, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Where is everybody??!!

There's so much to discuss. I would hate to have to join Dark UFO to find people to talk with.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

MeriJ --- Some more GREAT info i found.. (hopefully it's accurate) this further proves our theory that there is no ambiguity in the ending... read on!!!:)

from ComingSoon.net

Spoiler Alert! If you have not watched the "Lost" series finale, you may want to turn back now! Michael Emerson dropped by the G4's "Attack of the Show" this week and revealed that the "Lost: The Complete Collection" Blu-ray and DVD sets, coming to stores on August 24, will have more on Hurley and Ben Linus' story after where the series finale ended. "Well, for those people that want to pony up and buy the Complete Lost Series, there is a bonus feature, which is, uhm, you could call it an epilogue, a lost scene," he said. "It's a lot, it's 12 or 14 minutes that opens a window onto that gap of unknown time between Hurley becoming number one and the end of the series."

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 27, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I really loved the show and how it ended. For me it is clear that what happened on the island - really happened. Moreover, from my point of view the whole LA X storyline was real too. It happened in the new reality created after The Incident. And the only last scene in the church was a dream that Jack saw when he was dying on the island.

Posted by: polski | May 27, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Meri,

It looks like Fate1 was pretty bummed out by the finale and has LOST faith.

For those who haven't seen them yet, Liz and Jen added another discussion section which contains a series of links to other discussions about the Lost finale. Doc Jenson wrote a 15 page discussion which I think captures the ending quite well.

Posted by: dojemc | May 27, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

---In my rewatch, I was also struck by Juliet's words at the vending machine. I caught it the first time, but then she and Sawyer woke up and I got all weepy and forgot to pursue the implications.

---She said -- refering to her technique for getting the Apollo bar to drop -- "It worked."

---Then she said "we should get coffee sometime."

---So, I ask you all, WTF does that mean?---Posted by: MeriJ

As she was dying and soon after her death, Juliet flashed over to sideways world. There she talked to Sawyer--when and in what order of words doesn't matter, because there is no now, there.

Or am I not getting at what you meant?

I've been puzzling over Charlie and Des in their initial encounters in sideways.

Charlie said he was dead and seemed to act like he knew it. Yet his consciousness did not awaken until he saw Claire and Aaron.

Desmond must have known after his flash, despite what he said to Jack near the end. Why else would he run over Locke with no compunction? So why then did he try to get Jack to come over and "live" in sideways?

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 27, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Meri,

Am reading the blog/whatever it is by the Bad Robot guy. Starts out ok but his reason for why Dharma is on the island is a non-answer. Essentially, he has no explanation for why Jacob might have brought them to the island. He says that Dharma's purpose was blatant. I don't think it was. We don't know if they were brought in to kill MIB or harvest/explore the island for their own purposes. Same thing for Widmore. We don't really know what his deal was. Was he a candidate? Why was he banished? Was he banished by Ben in a coup because he (Ben) was directed to do so by MIB (thinking it was Jacob speaking to him)?

Other disconnects. He says the people who ended up in the church were "basically" from season 1 of the show thus explaining eliminating Miles, Lapidus, etc. However, that is not accurate because you have Juliet, Desmond, Bernard, Libby etc. who weren't in season 1 yet were in the church at the end. His story that they wrote the ending after they wrote the pilot doesn't ring true. Or even if it accurately depicts how they expected to end the show, they certainly could have added or subtracted characters to participate in the final scene at any time over the six seasons. Don't forget, when they first wrote Jack into the story, they planned on him dieing during the pilot or shortly afterwords. That obviously changed pretty early on into the development or shooting of the pilot but I don't think there was a grand scheme as to who was going to be in the church in the end.

I think the guy's insight, if he really exists, is nice but, quite frankly, I've seen as good theories and explanations about what happened from the people writing on this blog, especially including you, as from this fellow.

Posted by: dojemc | May 27, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"I've been puzzling over Charlie and Des in their initial encounters in sideways.
Charlie said he was dead and seemed to act like he knew it. Yet his consciousness did not awaken until he saw Claire and Aaron.
Desmond must have known after his flash, despite what he said to Jack near the end. Why else would he run over Locke with no compunction? So why then did he try to get Jack to come over and "live" in sideways?"
Posted by: PortlandMaine |


I have had the same thoughts, or very similar. Charlie had had some form of flashback to Claire when he was choking on the heroin. This lead him to ralize there was another potential reality out there. That is what he wanted to get Desmond to see. If he already knew about the other reality, then why did he have another epiphany with the birth of Aaron in Sideways world? So, are there two stages in this holding world/limbo/purgatory. The first is where you know you're dead but where you still are not ready to pass over? The second stage is when you finally run into the person who can assist you with the transition (Claire and Aaron in Charlies case).

Posted by: dojemc | May 27, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

dojemc:

First, thanks for clueing me into Jen & Liz's new posting. It's not listed at Lost Central so I had indeed missed it. I just posted my threadbare plea there.

It’s not that I think this Bad Robot guy is particularly insightful. I agree that our analysis is better than his. But even clouded through his subjective memory, I do believe he is conveying what he heard the writers discussing over the years. That’s a remarkable window into the show.

Darlton’s choice to maintain radio silence was a brave one, but I think it has turned out to be a mistake. The conversations most people are having are the wrong ones, initially due to mass confusion about what happened, and then to the widely held belief that the ending made meaningless everything that had happened previously. Greg’s information counters that in a way that only the writers could have addressed. And they’ve chosen not to.

We need to know that everything that happened mattered. That even the ultimately clueless Dharma Initiative mattered.

After these last few days of anger and despair, the idea that the writers really did know where they were going is revelatory. It makes me want to re-watch every episode with new eyes.

That’s why I’m sad most of the regulars are no longer posting. I’m making new connections about all these older episodes, but I have almost no one to talk to about it!
.
.
For the record, tgreg was asked about the non-Season One people being in the church and gave a so-so answer, which was that a few of them were characters they planned to introduce all along and were already on the island during the time frame or Season One – Desmond for example -- but admitted that they didn’t all make sense to him.

He’s just a guy who got to listen in as the writers made their plans. My guess is that, indeed, out of pride and for the sake of the writing challenge, Darlton didn’t change the script from the one they and JJ had put in the lockbox or whatever. But maybe they compromised by allowing a few new characters into the church. For the emotional impact.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

PortlandMaine and dojemc:

But you guys are still here! So that's cool.

I thought Daniel and Charlie weren't fully awakened by their dream/near death memories of Charlotte and Claire. It began the process, they knew it was heavy, but they didn't get to the point of realizing what LA X was.

Eloise seemed fully aware.

What about Bernard? I have to re-watch that weird encounter he had with Jack in his dentistry office.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

as far as Charlie not knowing "where" he was in sideways and then having to have "another" awakening... Jack had the same experience (after he did the surgery on locke he had a small flash with Locke and in typical Jack style- tried dismissing it).. i think the "awakenings" have varying degrees of significance, and it took until Jack saw his dad's coffin for him to be fully aware of what was going on, and more importantly, accept it.

as far as the post i submitted by the Bad Robot guy... i never took them as "answers" per se, just an explanation that they were indeed alive on the island. and also, simply as a guide to the bigger picture. and in his defense, i don't think he meant it as anything but.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 27, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

PortlandMaine:

Re: "It worked." I totally get what I saw. What I haven't figured out is what it implies about the bomb.

The obvious explanation is that the bomb accomplished nothing, other than to move them all to 2007. When Juliet told Sawyer (via Miles) that "it worked," she was just flashing to the key moment in her after life. So, evidently, that line was misdirection on the writer's part to keep us off-stride in thinking about LA X.

That much I knew right away. But in terms of Jacob and MIB, who wanted that bomb to go off? Did it meet either of their goals? Or was it MIB's play, but Jacob nullified it with his power to make or change the rules?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Why Jack was hard to awaken:

It required him to abandon the fantasy that he had a son.

The look in his eyes after Locke tried to tell him at the hospital was not bewilderment. It was abject terror. The kind you see in cattle just before they are slaughtered.

I'm so glad I re-watched the finale.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Great lines:

LOCKE: This remind you of anything Jack?

JACK: What?

LOCKE: Desmond going down into a hole in the ground. If there was a button down there to push, we could fight about whether or not to push it. It'd be just like old times.

JACK: You're not John Locke. You disrespect his memory by wearing his face, but you're nothing like him. Turns out he was right about most everything. I just wish I could've told him that while he was still alive.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

The look on MIB's face after this exchange:

LOCKE: So it's you.

JACK: Yeah. It's me.

LOCKE: Jacob being who is, I expected to be a little more surprised. You're sort of the obvious choice.

JACK: He didn't choose me. I volunteered.

LOCKE: I assume you're here to stop me.

JACK: I can't stop you. In fact, I wanna go with you.

LOCKE: I'm sorry, Jack. I think you're a little confused about what I came here to do.

JACK: No I'm not. No, you're going to the far side of the bamboo forest. To the place that I've sworn that I'll protect. And then you think you're gonna destroy the island.

LOCKE: [surprised] I think?

JACK: [smiles] That's right. Because that's not what's gonna happen.

LOCKE: Then what's gonna happen, Jack?

JACK: I'm gonna kill you.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

The living Desmond who returned to the island after flashing through LA X didn't grasp that it was a post-life place. You can see that from the dialogue below, just before they entered the cave.

But the after-life Desmond already in LA X did get it. He was fully awake from the stadium scene on.
.
.
DESMOND: This doesn't matter, you know.

JACK: Excuse me?

DESMOND: Him destroying the island, you destroying him. It doesn't matter. You know, you're gonna lower me into that light, and I'm gonna go somewhere else. A place where we can be with the ones we love, and not have to ever think about this damn island again. And you know the best part, Jack?

JACK: What?

DESMOND: You're in this place. You know, we sat next to each other on Oceanic 815. It never crashed. We spoke to each other. You seemed happy. You know, maybe I can find a way to bring you there too.

JACK: Desmond, I tried that once. There are no shortcuts, no do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me, I know. All of this matters.

LOCKE: Shall we?
.
.
Later on, when Jack finds Desmond in the cave Des admits that Jack was right, he didn't go somewhere else after all. Jack quipd that even he gets it right occasionly.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

i don't know how much i buy into this or how much it even matters but some are saying that the bomb going off was what somehow created this "collective conscience" that we are calling sideways time. which gives the bomb a little more meaning then just simply moving them ahead in time.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 27, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Yes still here...can't let go ;-)

Right MeriJ, I have come to think that "it worked" was intentional misdirection that led us away from the true meaning of the sideways flash and invested the bomb with a meaning that it did not have.

I have always been very confused about the bomb and the Incident, whether the bomb was the incident, or whether Desmond not pushing the button was the incident.

Someone upthread posted that the bomb did not detonate, the flash at the end was another time shift. That makes sense to me. Who survives an atom bomb blast from a few yards away? But, I *think* in the recap show before The End, it was said that Juliet detonated the bomb.

Also, is it a fact that Jacob brought the Dharma people, with all their backstory, to the island? Maybe it's the way the seasons played out but I never got it that everyone who came to the island, including Dharma, was brought there by Jacob.

I really, really hope the BluRay set I plan to purchase comes out with extensive commentary by the producers and writers.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 27, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

I guess what I'm saying is, did everything that happened on the island do so because Jacob or MIB was angling for it?

I'd like to think not. Jacob wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and MIB was irreparably damaged. If everything that happened, happened because of puppeteers pulling the strings, that takes the free will out of it and diminishes Jack's achievement. I think.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 27, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Jacob and MIB did not have the power to control what happened. They influenced things. Jacob had a lot more power than he was willing to use, but still...

Jacob brought people into the game in the hope that one would emerge to take his place and do the job he could not.

When people arrived, MIB corrupted or misled them.

But ultimately it did come down to Jack and the choices he made. Jacob departed without even knowing how it would end. He put his faith in Jack.

Free will vs. destiny.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I also wonder how the various groups (egyptions, US army, Dharma, Widmore freightor) got to the island. It would be strange if Jacob brought the army to get their bomb (for future use) and did not care the the innocent US soldiers had to die as a consequence. Jacob become more old testament (easier to sacrafice human life) than new testament, in that case. ALso, how did Widmore know how to find the island's vicinity with his freightor? Do you think that the eqyptions were sort of proto-dharma initiative people; there to exploit the island, or were they there to live harmoniously with it? It is interesting how Jacob lives in dwellings built by both the egyptions (statue) and dharma initiative (cabin).

Posted by: daveinri0101 | May 27, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Specific Responses to Posts, part I (26th/ 9:26 pm-- 27th/ 2:56 pm)

So, first off, Lost is one of my favorite shows. The fact that it keeps people guessing thinking, and discussing is great. A mystery play of sorts. A mythological puzzle.
Oh, before I start, can someone tell me how to find Jen&Liz's most recent discussion with links?
Reading MeriJ's 26th/9:26 PM post, I can totally understand you longtimers' frustrations with people who haven't read other posts and are just repeating what has been said.
But I find myself still finding myself still thinking about aspects of the show and wanting to talk about them. As of now, I have read J&L's column and online chat, and have scanned a lot of the posts. I will try to deal specifically with topics of .posts after 26th/9:30 pm.. If you don't like this, just skip this (and tell me a better way to discuss if you want). I, too would rather use this as the main forum and not have to go to DarkUfo.
Warning: this may be a little long. I'll break this into two parts. I'll try to go in order of the posts, but probably more in order of topics.
I think that Desmond misunderstood LA X from his island reality, but once in LA X after his death, he did understand it and tried to "wake" others.
Juliet and James: I think she said "it worked", because they were finally back together. Plus as Portlland says: she was flashing between sideways and the island. I also think there was something significant/parallel about the lights going off, then on, but haven't quite figured that out.
I'd love to see the extra dozen minutes with Hurley and Ben! Priceless.
I think Charlie had different levels of understanding to go through to get to his final realization in LA X.
gojemic (27th/2:56 pm)-- I personally think Dharma came of its own accord to study the EMF. I think Widmore was banished because of his off-island daughter, but more because Ben wanted to remove a rival. I think people were in church because of their connection to each other (the strongest in their particular lives) not because of the time of their appearance in the show.
Part II to follow….

Posted by: drzook | May 27, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

drzook: Jen and Liz's latest post.

Actually it was a couple of days ago, but I didn't see either until today. They don't also link everything they put out on Lost from Lost Central. If you click on the Celebritology banner at the top of this page, you'll see their main blogsite. From there you just have to scroll down sometimes to find new Lost material.

The one you asked about is here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/celebritology/2010/05/the_lost_madness_continues.html#more

You're doing fine, btw!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 27, 2010 11:36 PM | Report abuse

I am not sure if Jacob brought the Dharma folks to the Island or if they were just another in a series of people who found their way there. Remember in Across the Sea that men arrived on the Island without Mother even knowing. I think people have always been drawn (perhaps unconsciously) to the power of the Island, some good (white) and some not so good (black). And certainly once they become aware of the Island’s special properties (stemming from the Source), many give in to greed and temptation to seek that power for themselves.

Of course, that’s not to say that once folks found their way there that Jacob didn’t take an interest in them. We also know there are some (the Candidates) that Jacob specifically drew to the island. Whether or not he brought them there originally, the Dharma Initiative could have been to be very useful to Jacob. The DI brought different types of people to the island - men of science and men of faith, some volunteers and some that may have gotten a “push”. And it provided access to the wider world and a network of people that helped to protect/maintain the island. Before the DI there were different groups that built the statue, lighthouse, Temple, etc. I’m curious who might have been drawn to the Island in the Hurley/Ben years.

I can’t wait to rewatch the whole series to see how those earlier seasons unfold now that I know the final outcome. I remember that there were references to Jacob in earlier seasons, but it will be fun to see exactly what was said and how (and how much) it fits with what was revealed. I also am excited to see if I can pick up on hints about when MIB was calling the shots in Jacob’s name.I wonder if the motives of Widmore, Dharma, and the Others will be clearer. Many people insisted they were the “Good Guys” and it will be interesting to see how I interpret their actions on repeat viewing.

I will say that I expect to find many inconsistencies and I don’t see that as a failing of the show or its creators. I do believe that the creators set out with a story to tell that had a beginning, middle, and end. And I think that is the story they told. But along the way, as any storyteller does, they have to fill in the details. Parts of the story and characters are revealed (even to the creators) and evolve in the telling. Unexpected things are discovered that work brilliantly (the addition of Michael Emerson as Ben) or fail spectacularly (the Temple, really?). Even with 6 seasons and over 120 hours, there is both not enough time to fit it all in and too much time to fill.

First time caller, long time listener – and really happy to see the chatting continue

Posted by: EconGirl2 | May 28, 2010 12:14 AM | Report abuse

"Right MeriJ, I have come to think that "it worked" was intentional misdirection that led us away from the true meaning of the sideways flash and invested the bomb with a meaning that it did not have." Posted by Portland, maine.

Portland, I think that the comment was misunderstood; not sure it was misdirection. We, the viewers, thought it meant that there was an alternate reality. Instead, it was the construct-room for the Losties to meet in. I think Juliet flashed to her SW meeting with Sawyer and thought it meant that hitting the bomb had transported her there. To the dead Juliet, that meant that "it" had indeed worked. And, in fact, it did work. She just didn't realize that she was dead in SW world.

"Oh, before I start, can someone tell me how to find Jen&Liz's most recent discussion with links?" Posted by: drzook

Doc, Meri gave you the link. For others, you go to the celebretology link on the WAPO mainpage. Once in that link, scroll down and on the left hand side there is a folder entitled "Lost". It is not the Lost Central site. Once in this site, you can see all of Liz/Jen's posts, including the most recent which includes links to other discussions about the finale. The doc jenson link is very insightful.


Posted by: dojemc | May 28, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

portlandmaine-
not sure if the bomb was the incident or not, but Desmond not pushing the button was definitely not the incident because all those Dr. Chang video's discussing the incident were recorded well before desmond came to the island. so, if they're inferring anything- i'm pretty sure we're meant to think to bomb was the incident

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 28, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse

plus not that anything is this directly simple in lost, but the episode title was the incident too, and i'm definitely thinking that wasn't misdirection

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 28, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

EconGirl2 said:

"I am not sure if Jacob brought the Dharma folks to the Island or if they were just another in a series of people who found their way there. Remember in Across the Sea that men arrived on the Island without Mother even knowing."

Good point. Although it's possible she knew but lied. She seemed like she was wearing out, in terms of the will power to continue her role. So I thought she'd brought that ship in to get the pregnant woman's child. She certainly seemed surprised to get twins, though!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 28, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Bomb vs. EM drilling Incident and the creation of LA X:

Two of us have suggested that Juliet's dying thought "It worked" was misdirection on the part of the writers -- i.e., that we were falsely led to believe the bomb successed in creating an alternate timeline in which the plane didn't crash.

Throughout Season 6 we received many clues that something was not as it seemed in LA X. But since we started out so entrenched in the wrong place, we never came close to figuring out the true nature of LA X until the very last minutes of the show.

It helped also that we were no longer thinking Purgatory, since that we figured that card had already been played and discarded.

This scenario raises the question of whether the bomb did anything at all, other than transport them back to 2007.

It certainly didn't kill anyone. Juliet seemed to die of internal injuries from her fall. And being 100 yards away from an atomic bomb explosion . . . well, 'nuff said.
.
.
Jere1570 and dojemc countered that the bomb actually did create LA X. We just misunderstood what it was.
.
.
The other confusion, for me at least, is whether the bomb was always the orginal Incident that led to the hatch being built, or whether the DI drilling into the EM light caused the original Incident and the bomb overwrote that past somehow.

(I believe that's what PortlandMaine meant to say, when he or she mistakenly referred to Desmond failing to type in the numbers. Brainfarts strike again!)

What bamfoozles me is the time travel stuff. If whatever happened happened, then it was always the bomb that caused the Incident. But somehow, I can't quite get my head around that.

That would mean that the DI built the hatch sometime after 1977 in response to the atomic explosion and whatever slow leak of EM energy resulted. That's easy enough.

But the wreckage that Juliet was pulled out of in 2007 should have been exactly the same wreckage that resulted from Desmond turning the failsafe key back in Season Two. Whereas it looked to me more like the wreckage of the drilling equipment that got sucked into the mine shaft. (Need to find screenshots to compare!)

Sorry for all the restating of things. I'm just talking out loud to get it straight in my poor head.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 28, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

jere1570 and MeriJ: yes you have put your finger on what I have been wondering about the incident(s).

I still have to think the hydrogen bomb did not explode. Along with what jere1570 said, though, the bomb/Juliet's death and what I now think is The Incident (drilling into the EM pocket) all of course happened together.

So, Dr. Chang, who was alive in the post-atomic bomb video as pointed out, was referring to the incident involving release of electromagnetic energy and describing the (new) need to push a button (the reason they had to build the hatch.)

Now I'm confused MeriJ: if the bomb never went off (hmmm if that's the case, what happened to it afterward?) and then the hatch was built at that site, what's the issue with the wreckage? Wasn't Juliet pulled out in 1977, along with the drilling equipment?

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 28, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

>... what's the issue with the wreckage? Wasn't Juliet pulled out in 1977, along with the drilling equipment?

Didn't they flash back to 2007? So it shouldn't have been drilling equipment. The DI would have cleaned up that wreckage before building the hatch. It should have been the wreckage that resulted from Desmond turning the failsafe key several seasons ago.

Maybe just a continuity error.

Someone said the recap show referred to the bomb going off. Personally I thought it did not -- that Jacob flashed them back to 2007 and maybe even prevented it from going off when it first fell down the shaft.

But it could be that it did go off but with unexpected results, as a result of being so close to the EM light source.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 28, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

yeah, i have heard lindecuse on several occasions say that the bomb was indeed detonated. but, well, ya know, they also said they'd explain the food drops... so... :)

but yes when juliet was pulled out it was indeed 2007 (or "present" time)... as rose and bernard said, who knows when they all flashed to at the point to bomw "went off"

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 28, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

*at the point that the bomb went off

is what that was supposed to say

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 28, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I am surprised how many people did not get the timeless part of the limbo where the Losties gathered. Everyone did not die at the same time. Christian said that there is no "now" here. And he very clearly stated (and I don't think we need to overcomplicate this) that everything that happened on the island was REAL (including the magical/mystical elements & time travel), and the "limbo" or flash-Sideways was a mutual construct of the group. Some of the people in the church died before Jack, some died long after Jack. For example, Hurley & Ben clearly had some kind of life together after Jack died, guarding the island. Kate told Jack "I've missed you for so long." so clearly she lived for a long time after Jack--and that means that the Ajira flight got back and its passengers lived on. What makes anyone think that infant Aaron died? First of all, last time we saw him in the real world, he was a preschooler. It's just that as they gathered in the church, everyone was in the form that they were in when they knew each other on the island--including Aaron.

Posted by: pattyc1 | May 28, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

pattyc1:

I too was surprised all that was not more clear.

But I suspect that wasn't really Aaron or Jin Yeon in the church. It could be, but I just figured those were mental props to support their collective memory of who they were at the time they originally bonded.

Once they realized they were dead, I think they had more control over how they appeared in LA X. Like Locke tossing the wheelchair and Kate changing that dress into a pair of pants and a blouse. But Claire and Sun/Jin chose to hold onto their babies. (My opinion, only.)

Posted by: MeriJ | May 28, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Okay, so if/when the bomb detonated, only the Losties (including Juliet's body and Rose and Bernard and Vincent) flashed to 2007; Dr. Chang and the rest of the DI stayed in 1977 with most or all of them surviving the blast, to be later murdered by the Ben and Richard tag team? (The blast effect perhaps occurring elsewhere in the space/time continuum or as stated upthread, not having the expected effect because of the EM energy?)

Somewhat off topic, Dr. Chang is such an interesting character, with all his different "candle" aliases (another little unsolved mystery). I like to think Miles was not in the church because he and his father would eventually go together.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 28, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Juliet didn't die until after the flash to 2007. She was mortally wounded by the fall down the mine shaft. But she didn't die until they dug her out in 2007.

At least that's how I remembered it.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 28, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Alleged insider "answers" from E! broadcast:

I didn't watch this clip myself, but I'm copying & pasting someone else's summary of the "insider" reveals on it.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b182505_lost_want_know_man_in_blacks_real_name.html

From here on are someone else's words. (Some of those guys at the Buffalo Bill fansite are really into Lost!)
.
.
Here's a clip from E! Krisitin Dos Santos, where she spills a little re: who the Kwon candidate was, the MIB's name (Samuel, translated to "Man of God" in Hebrew. I'm surprised no one here responded to that news --- kind of a validation that it didn't matter that much?) and what the entry for '108' meant in the Lighthouse.

The video was getting very choppy for me. She also said that "the producers have gone into radio silence and are never, ever going to answer questions about the show." Some of the more important points:

1. It was MIB-as-Christian Shephard's form who was the Jacob's Cabin ghost. Kristin said that if you go back, you can see the white shoes he was wearing in the casket. MIB-as-Christian's eye was also the one that appeared at the window to Hurley.

2. Some further information about Walt will be given some attention in the DVDs. [I would suspect that this will be part of the Hurley-reign epilogue.]

3. The Kwon candidate was Jin. Sun was not considered a candidate b/c she was a mother. [And further to that, she was an actual birth mother, not a guardian-type mother as Kate was serving to Aaron.]

4. The entry under '108' in the Lighthouse didn't matter. Evidently, it was a made-up name. The Lighthouse served only as a way for Jack to ultimately realize/see his purpose. We all were puzzled that it didn't say 'Hume' when in reality, it was probably a made-up Kaffafka name.

5. Krisitin was told that the Protector of the Island can change the weather on the Island. Either subconsciously or consciously. To draw someone to or send someone away from the Island.... She cited the sudden onset of the storm that drove the Black Rock so far inland, and the rainstorm just before Mother was killed.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 28, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Ok, got it now re: when Juliet died. So confusing.

"if you go back, you can see the white shoes he was wearing in the casket." -- I am pretty sure Christian was still wearing his sneakers when he walked out the front door of the church as well.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 28, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

It was a great finale and a great series.

My questions is when people said that the island demands or does such and such, do they mean the powerful, wizard-like protector, or do they mean that the island actually has a will of its own? When Ilana was blown up, was that the work of Jacob or did the island, itself, will it? Is the will of the island just a misplaced view of the will of God, as we know him from Judeo/Christian tradition?

Posted by: daveinri0101 | May 29, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Nice touch: In our final glimpse of Desmond and Penny, she has her head on his shoulder, just like she did in the photo he stared at longingly episode after episode.

Here's what I find confusing...back when the Oceanic Six had returned home and Hurley was institutionalized again, Ghost Charlie came and visited him. But how could that be? After he drowned, wouldn't Charlie have gone to the waiting-for-each-other-after-death sideways world? Maybe he hung out in the world of the living for awhile before going there?

Posted by: thboston | May 29, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Meri-
i live in Buffalo, NY... doesn't surprise me that the Bills site has so much good info... we don't have much to do around here except root for terrible sports team and watch LOST : )

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 29, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Meri-
i live in Buffalo, NY... doesn't surprise me that the Bills site has so much good info... we don't have much to do around here except root for terrible sports team and watch LOST : )

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 29, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"Jere1570 and dojemc countered that the bomb actually did create LA X. We just misunderstood what it was." Posted by MeriJ

Meri, I don't think the bomb created LAX. I'm not sure the bomb even went off despite what Lindecrus say. But if it did, it didn't operate as a true Nuke. Rather it blended with the electomagnetic forces of the island to send the Losties, and only the Losties for some reason, back to the future of 2007. This included Juliet. I think during the flash forward (sorry to hear that show is being canceled) Juliet flashed to the waiting room where she saw that she would be meeting Sawyer again. That is what I think she meant by it worked. She thought it was the bomb. It may have been. I think she had a near death experience which allowed her to see herself in the waiting room. (Now I'm having recollection problems. Did Miles hear the dead Juliet say it worked, which would make sense since if she was dead she could have gone to the waiting room, or did a dying Juliet tell Sawyer that?) In any event, I don't think the bomb created LAX; we now know there was no LAX in the sense of an alternate universe. Rather, LAX was a construct for the Losties to wait for each other to arrive and regain their memories of their time on the island.

Posted by: dojemc | May 29, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Sorry about that, dojemc. I totally misread your earlier comment.

We are on the same page, for sure.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 29, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

so i was browsing back thru really old S3 analysis' and just happened to stumble upon this blurb that Jen wrote after watching the episode where Ben shot Locke and he ended up falling into the Dharma mass grave... she said this...

I also don't think Locke is dead because I'm not sure that he can die. He also was still breathing when the episode ended, and that leads me to believe there is a window of hope. He's such a fascinating character and I think the show needs him, so I want him to stick around.

just funny to see the progression of the whole show. and all the old theories are priceless to go back and read. give it a try if you have a few minutes, or days. haha

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 29, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

so i was browsing back thru really old S3 analysis' and just happened to stumble upon this blurb that Jen wrote after watching the episode where Ben shot Locke and he ended up falling into the Dharma mass grave... she said this...

I also don't think Locke is dead because I'm not sure that he can die. He also was still breathing when the episode ended, and that leads me to believe there is a window of hope. He's such a fascinating character and I think the show needs him, so I want him to stick around.

just funny to see the progression of the whole show. and all the old theories are priceless to go back and read. give it a try if you have a few minutes, or days. haha

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 29, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

so i was browsing back thru really old S3 analysis' and just happened to stumble upon this blurb that Jen wrote after watching the episode where Ben shot Locke and he ended up falling into the Dharma mass grave... she said this...

I also don't think Locke is dead because I'm not sure that he can die. He also was still breathing when the episode ended, and that leads me to believe there is a window of hope. He's such a fascinating character and I think the show needs him, so I want him to stick around.

just funny to see the progression of the whole show. and all the old theories are priceless to go back and read. give it a try if you have a few minutes, or days. haha

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 29, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

I read the column and every line of commentary from the very beginning, but I was a lurker up until this year. At least I think I was this year. Hard to remember at this point.

If you come upon my first post, let me know! I'd love to see it. Typos and all.

One technique that has helped me here is to use Google toolbar to cycle through all the posts by any given individual. I put their login name in the search bar and then click on the doohicky that advances you through all its locations on the page.

Every time someone posted something particularly insightful, I would go back to see everything else they had posted for that episode.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 29, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone explain the following:
1) How can the characters not recognize each other in purgatory? In other words, how is it that they don't remember their island lives?
2) In island time Jack is willing & eager to die to save the island/the world, but in sideways time he resists all of the suggestions that he is dead, and is distressed when his father confirms it.
What am I missing?

Posted by: kittyrosie | May 30, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Why Jack was hard to awaken:

It required him to abandon the fantasy that he had a son.

The look in his eyes after Locke tried to tell him at the hospital was not bewilderment. It was abject terror. The kind you see in cattle just before they are slaughtered.

I'm so glad I re-watched the finale.

(Reposted from above for kittyrosie)


Posted by: MeriJ | May 30, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

From Dark UFO:

Former Lost producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse are acknowledging that while much of the recently concluded show's mind-bending stories and puzzle-piece arcs were mapped out from day one, other stories and arcs were the result of action-reaction or were simply winged as needed.

"It was a combination of both those things," Cuse said in an exclusive interview. "There was a big, mythic architecture which included a lot of what's in the finale, in terms of where we end the show, that we knew way back in the beginning. And then, before each season, we'd have a writers' mini-camp and spend a month without any pressure of writing other scripts, figuring out the architecture of the upcoming season. That'd sort of take the artists' rendering and turn it into blueprints, and then, during the season, episode by episode, we built the structure. We allowed ourselves a lot of flexibility to change things around as we were doing construction. It was impossible to have everything planned out, and so it was kind of built in stages."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 30, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ-
i'm glad you posted what you just did. i used to get almost mad when people would say "oh, they're just making it up as they go.." ummm.... yeah? that's what writing/telling a story is. you don't sit down and say- i have every detail of a 6 year story planned out, i'm gonna write it all down right this minute and then that's it. it's assinine and physically impossible to even think thats how it was written. it's a peice of art, like a book... that takes time and adjustments to tell.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Yeah. It's hardly news they were doing both -- they said it before and it was always obvious anyhow.

But the backlash against them has been so intense, so I posted it anyway.

If I were a social psych researcher, I would be on this "how different fans cope with the loss of Lost" phenom in a heartbeat. Really fascinating stuff.

The negativity has been depressing to me (layered on top of my own depression about the show ending!) but it's still interesting.

Everyone copes differently. But some cope less usefully than others, imho. The total "rejection of what you loved" approach seems not entirely adaptive, to my feeble mind.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

thboston posted: "back when the Oceanic Six had returned home and Hurley was institutionalized again, Ghost Charlie came and visited him. But how could that be? After he drowned, wouldn't Charlie have gone to the waiting-for-each-other-after-death sideways world?"

--This is a really good question. Charlie was a dead man walking in two different places.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 31, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

> After he drowned, wouldn't Charlie have gone to the waiting-for-each-other-after-death sideways world?"

i would like to know the answer to that, as well. It may be relevant that Jacob wanted him to come back to the island too, not just MIB. Remember, he gave Hurely the guitar case with the ankh?

And we've already seen that bleedover was possible between LA X and living people -- or at least, dying people plus Desmond and maybe Eloise.

I think both MIB and Jacob wanted everyone back on the island, because they wanted their respective game plans to finish playing out.
.
.
What about Hurley's imaginary buddy, Dave? On the island, was he actually MIB trying to kill Hurley? And if so, why wouldn't that have broken the rules? It would not have been a suicide, exactly, since Dave was telling him the island was not real. And it would not have been a direct kill by MIB either -- something in between... Like when he tried to trick Jack into chasing his father off a cliff.


Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

keep in mind though that the "sideways waiting room world" had no time. so as Christian stated, there is no "when" here. so as viewers it seems he was in 2 places at the same time, but for the story, he wasn't.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

i'm definitely thinking Dave was MIB. he couldn't directly kill the candidates... so you're point makes sense Meri, i.e. having jack almost chase him off a cliff, dave trying to get hurley to jump, same as him putting the bomb on the sub, but only sawyer pulling the wire would have killed them. so, influenced by MIB, sure, but as you said, not a direct kill.

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I thought MIB could only inhabit dead bodies that were actually on the island (Christian, Locke) - not random dead people.

Posted by: michaeljamesharty | May 31, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

good point. it gets a little hazy though because he (we're assuming) impersonated Richard's wife... who was never on the island. so there was talk of when smokey "scanned" people he could see their life and memories... but... who knows it may be just another question left for us to analyze for years to come!

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

sorry that thought was a little unfinished... i meant when he scanned people and saw their life and memories, that he could then impersonate people that the person knew, in order to influence them, etc...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

sorry that thought was a little unfinished... i meant when he scanned people and saw their life and memories, that he could then impersonate people that the person knew, in order to influence them, etc...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Ben's mom was never on the island either.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

And we're still in the dark about Richard's wife at the end of Ab Aeterno, with Hugo standing there able to see her, maybe or maybe not conveying her last words accurately.

Was that really her? Or was that Jacob?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

If it really was her, that would suggest she was waiting for Richardo to join her before moving on from her own LA X holding place.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

i assumed that was really her spirit talking to hurley at the end of ab aeterno. i don't think jacob could/did impersonate anyone. but that's just my guess. good call on Ben's mom... i knew there was someone else i was forgetting

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

"keep in mind though that the "sideways waiting room world" had no time. so as Christian stated, there is no "when" here. so as viewers it seems he was in 2 places at the same time, but for the story, he wasn't." -- jere1570

OK, but when he visited the live Hurley, ghost Charlie knew he was dead. Much later, after everyone else had died, Charlie had to relearn the fact that he was dead.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 31, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

portland-
excellent point. never thought of it that way. hmmm...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Actually let me amend that. Charlie *did* know he was dead in sideways flash, he said so. He just didn't remember the island.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 31, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

maybe i'm getting a little too far out there with this one but dead-charlie visited live Hurley in Island/"real" time. sideways time, while it wasn't an alternate reality be definition, was basically him living a completely different life. so maybe the 2 weren't consciously connected

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 31, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

Darlton interview from January 2007:

Damon L: We can hand you an envelope right now and we could seal it in a safety deposit box and it would say in that envelope: Here's what the island is. Here's why these people came to this island. Here's roughly what the events of the last episode of the show will be. There are certain things that we cannot predict. If we add a new actor to the show like Michael Emerson [Ben] or Ian Cusick [Desmond] we're still telling the same story but we want to get to it in a different way because we'll put it on the backs of the people whom the audience is jelling with.

How we got there and which characters would be involved might be a little bit vague, but the actual answers to the mysteries, the nature of the island, what the monster is, the function of the monster, when the Others came here, why the black rock is in the middle of the island, the explanation for the four-toed statue, those things we know the answers to. How we're going to reveal those answers becomes the slippery slope of the show.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

NYT Times Talk - pt 1

Here are excerpts from one person’s notes on that NYT event just before the finale. Bear in mind that it’s just one person’s memory of what was said. I’m trying to find an actual transcript. I got this version here:

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/ny-times-talk-lost-live-event-writeup.html

Not my words from here on:
-------------------------------

A really good question asked from the audience: “if MIB knew he couldn’t kill a candidate, why was he trying to do so by dragging Locke underground in season 1?” to which Damon replied: “ahh yes, but was he trying to kill him? You have to remember that Locke had just seen “the face of the island, and it was beautiful” and he was planning on going and giving a big speech to the castaways to give them hope and courage. MIB didn’t like this and was preventing him from doing so.”
.
.
How much was planned out? They had the end-game in mind during season 1. They know how they wanted it to end. Between the hiatus of season 1-2, they sat down and had time to write out the core mythology. But also, when each season started up in the writing bootcamp, they might change or modify or add things, knowing ultimately where they still had to go. The end-game has never changed in theme or purpose, but may have changed in small details and content.

Damon pointed out that the #1 and #2 questions most asked by fans is: 1) Was everything planned out? 2) how much input does the audience have on the show? Damon said you can’t have it both ways. Because if they planned EVERYTHING out and locked it away in some “LOST binder”, then obviously fans would not be allowed any input or effect on the show. An immediate response to the audience: people kept asking why Hurley wasn’t losing any weight… so they wrote in that he was stashing Dharma ranch dressing (and other things). An anticipated audience reaction dealt with pre-emptively: Nicki and Paulo.

Why Nicki and Paulo? Because in the third season they realized they were punting along and had to do something. Their rule was to introduce new characters at the beginning of each season, and as they saw they were introducing the Others characters at the cages (Juliet, etc.) they wanted to introduce new characters back at the beach camp. Thus, Nicki and Paulo. They admit it was a mistake and tried to be cruel in how they got rid of Nicki and Paulo to make the fans feel somewhat satisfied.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Times Talk – pt 2 (not my words)

When Damon realized Walt was getting too tall (taller than Damon isn’t very tall, btw), they basically said “lets get Walt on that raft, pronto!” and remarked how you can notice during season 1’s arc that Walt’s voice cracks a bit ala Peter Brady on the Brady Bunch. They way they wrote this into the show was that Walt was so special that even he was freaking out the Others, and Ben wanted him off the island.
.
.
They listed a good rule for Widmore (and others). “If a character tells you something, you can doubt it. Like Widmore. He suddenly has this change of heart and says Jacob visited him? Did Jacob really visit him? On the other hand, if you SEE something happening, then it’s true and real. We witnessed Jacob visiting Ilana at the hospital, her all bandaged up. But all we know is Widmore relayed a story. So it might be false. You have to remember to not listen to what characters on LOST say, but what they actually DO. Keep this in mind when wondering if what Widmore said was true.”

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

The actual broadcast is available on YouTube, for example, right here:

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/video-from-times-talks-live-lost-event.html

But I'm too impatient to sit through it! But I can brag that I was in Andy Borowitz's very first video back in junior HS. Back then, people recorded on this thing call tape. I remember him splicing it by hand and think how cool that was.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

"It looks like Fate1 was pretty bummed out by the finale and has LOST faith."
Posted by: dojemc

Oh contraire, I watched and loved it. Desmond's mission was clear, to get the Lostees in sideways time to realize their lack of mortality. I was also amazed by Eloise, who seemed to be happy with sideways time so she could be with Daniel. That steel women has a heart, a damaged one caused by her killing her only son. She ended up being a failure who could not live with her past life. But the Lostees, once they realized their past lives, were comfortable and ready to move on.

So I guess Hurley, with Ben, watched over the island, with new rules for many years. We don't know how the island changed, just that it is safe, and smokey, whatever it was, is gone. This could last for centuries as man continues his development. The past questions are moot.

What a hoot. Six years of guessing, developing theories, and knowing all the while that the writers could do whatever they wanted. We theorized rationally and the writers just made stuff up. It was no match. But one thing is certain, Hollywood will not learn that this is the type of writing, type of mystery and adventure people who watch TV are looking for. I suspect it will be another decade until we see the likes of Outer limits, Twilight Zone, Star Trek, X-Files and Lost. But there are good writers out there so keep hope alive, and wait for the next big thing...

Posted by: Fate1 | May 31, 2010 8:47 PM | Report abuse

"the explanation for the four-toed statue, those things we know the answers to. How we're going to reveal those answers becomes the slippery slope of the show." - posted by MeriJ

I must have missed that one!

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 31, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Well ... you could get really technical and say that they explained why it's just a statue of the foot and ankle ... (no, I don't buy it either - just sayin').

Posted by: michaeljamesharty | May 31, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

heh heh. Well that first interview quote was from back in January 2007. So they probably did know who built the darn thing, but decided not to bothering telling us.

It's funny because "who built the statue" is the example I always give of "answers I don't need to know in order to be happy."

But since we're talking about it, there's no reason to assume it wasn't built before Jacob was born. He might never have seen it in his limited world of micromanage-mom.
.
.
Fate1: I too thought you hated the ending. But I'm glad to be wrong!

Now where is ooyah32?

Still wondering why she (I'm guessing on gender, here) made all those spot-on instant reaction posts, apparently for naught?

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't think I've ever successfully posted twice in a row without at least one typo. It's partly that I rewrite and then forget the implication of changing a word on the rest of the sentence. Or I leave in orphans that I thought I'd deleted.

Sigh.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Questions I still ponder:

1. Whose side was Widmore on? (If anyone's other than his own...)

2. Who brought Sayid back to life? (Presumably Jacob, but what was that about and, if true, why did Dogan proclaim him infected with evil?)

Posted by: MeriJ | May 31, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2011 The Washington Post Company