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Posted at 10:22 AM ET, 05/19/2010

'Lost' Dueling Analysis: 'What They Died For'

By Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly
Lost

In which Jen and Liz ponder the penultimate episode of "Lost's" final season. Read along, then join them at 2 p.m. ET for the "Lost" Hour live chat. In the meantime, visit "Lost" Central to brush up on your island back story.


Hurley (Jorge Garcia), Jack (Matthew Fox), Kate (Evangeline Lilly) and Sawyer (Josh Holloway) at long last meet up with Jacob (Mark Pellegrino). (ABC)

Liz: As Jacob said during last night's episode, we're very close to the end, Hugo. Except you're not Hugo. You're Jen. Still, his statement resonated far past the confines of the island. For better or worse, this story -- six years in the telling -- will be finished in just four short days and, like the remaining Losties left on the island, we have been forever changed by the experience. Sigh.


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But I suppose we'd better put aside the maudlin remembrances and talk about how this penultimate episode teed us up for Sunday's finale. Jack drank the Kool-Aid and sideways Locke is ready for his operation -- making both of them now men of faith. Alpert, Zoe and Widmore added to the body count. Desmond is busy outwitting everyone in both worlds. And Jacob finally explained, sort of, why he brought these specific people to the island.

Where should we start?

Jen: Oh Lord. Why not start at the beginning, with the first most notable image. (And no, not Jack's eye, although that's always nice to see.) No, I mean that scar on his neck, the one he's had since the beginning of the flash sideways this season. What's going on with that thing? Looks more significant than a shaving error.

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Liz: It does. And he hardly would have made a shaving error while sound asleep. And, as far as parallels go, he doesn't have a neck wound on the island. At least not yet. Which has me wondering if it is a bit of foreshadowing.

Jen: Interesting. What could it foreshadow? That his neck will get sliced by MIB?

Liz: Well, why not? We did see MIB slash open Zoe's throat last night. Might he be planning to at least attempt the same treatment on Jack? Not that he'll be successful because, one would assume, Jack is now covered by the same rules that prevented MIB from doing Jacob direct physical harm. Which has me thinking MIB may again use Ben as his weapon of choice (ala how he got at Jacob) when it comes to Jack.


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Jen: And, one assumes, also able to live way longer than his life expectancy would ordinarily suggest. Quick aside re: Zoe... Remember when Sheila Kelley said in that interview that Zoe represented the heart of Lost? Um, what was she talking about? Was she just messing with us?

Liz: Either that or the woman had a seriously inflated idea of her importance to the show. Maybe she got her script confused with Allison Janney's one day on set.

Should we perhaps talk about Ben who, again, seems to have moved back over to the dark side -- at least his dark side?

Jen: I like your thinking re: Ben. I think ultimately, eventually, though, this whole thing comes down to Jack and Locke. That conflict has always been the central one, and I can't imagine it won't be in the finale. But since you mentioned Ben, oh heck, maybe we should talk about him, yes.

Liz: Here's my question: Was his commitment to being the new, improved righteous on-island Ben so tenuous that as soon as he saw an opportunity to hurt Charles Widmore (who he blames for Alex's death) he was willing to forsake all that progress and just give in to his baser nature? Or, by allowing MIB to talk to him (we've after all been warned against letting the guy talk to you) did Ben give up his ability to resist the monster's commands? After all, before MIB arrives, Ben pointedly says that he realized at some point that it was the monster summoning him, not the other way around.

Jen: I think the latter. I still contend Ben has been taking orders from that guy this whole time and thinking he was taking them from Jacob. And as soon as he showed up again, Ben was back to shooting people and wanting vengeance.

When Miles stumbled upon Alex's grave, Ben seemed upset for a moment, then blew it off. But in a way that I thought suggested it was upsetting, but he was trying to deny it or at least control his emotions. Once MIB arrives, he completely gives in to his basest nature. Control goes out the window.

Liz: Although... read the other way, it would be entirely believable to think that Ben saw an opportunity to really stick it to Widmore. He knew MIB was coming and so, under the guise of helping to hide Widmore, what he really does is stow Charles and Zoe in a cell until MIB arrives at which point, Ben could have posited, he would have the dual satisfactions of seeing Widmore know he was betrayed and watch him die. Of course, MIB wasn't fast enough with that second bit, so Ben did it himself.

I also detected a bit of the old Ben surfacing in sideways world. When he curtly corrected the school nurse: "That's Doctor Linus." And when he said something to Alex: she'd asked him why anyone would want to beat him up because he's so nice and he said something like "Obviously they had me confused with someone else."

Jen: That's very true. But when he did he realize he should take advantage of that opportunity? After Smokey showed up. I don't think he had a particular plan in place until MIB killed poor Richard (so much for "Ab Aeterno"). However, to your point, I also wondered if maybe bad Ben resurfaced as a result of having his flash after Desmond beat the heck out of him. I think a case could be made either way, honestly. I guess the larger point (maybe) is that Ben could either be a good guy or a bad guy. But it seems to me, on the island, he's destined to be a bad guy.

Liz: Speaking of ambiguous motivation... maybe next we can turn our attention to Desmond. He's still MIA on the island, but in sideways world he's been very busy -- beating up Dr. Linus, indirectly pushing Locke to return to Jack's office, and recruiting Kate and Sayid in his plan to crash Jack's son's piano recital. I have to tell you... he was creeping me out a bit.

Jen: You mean Freaky McManipulative Man?

And on the creep front, here's a question: Why did he have to call Jack and use that weird, prank phone call voice to say the coffin had been found? He didn't use that information to lure Jack anywhere. So I wasn't sure why he did that.

Liz: I just need to say that sometime between now and Sunday I am going to go through this season's chats and analyses and compile a list of all the "Mc[Insert Descriptor Here] names you've used.

Jen: Oh, I look forward to that. It will be like the Hurley "Dude" clip.

Liz: Anyhow, re: Des -- my guess is that we've yet to see the effect of the call to Jack. Will it be a ruse to get Jack to the airport where, surprise surprise, the rest of the sideways world Losties will also be gathered?

Jen: Nah. They're all going to a concert. Unless it isn't really a concert. Could Desmond have planned that, too?

Liz: Well, here's what I'm wondering: Is there any doubt in your mind about Desmond's motivation in sideways world? Something had me thinking the real Desmond is on the island (currently MIA) while the Des we're seeing in sideways world -- not a nice guy. I could be completely wrong. Maybe Henry Ian Cusick is just playing the part with a little extra dash of dastardly.

Jen: Well, he does lie to people and punch them and try to hit them with cars. But his motives may be good ... oh no! Sideways Desmond is Island Ben!

Seriously, though ... I can't decide if he's dastardly or he's just pleased with himself for controlling everyone's lives.

Liz: Or if he just finally sees the light and has an unwavering belief in how to accomplish his goal. Which is... well, yeah, totally Ben's move. But is sideways Desmond trying to save the island? The world? Penny?

Jen: I think his goal is to do exactly what he told Ben re: Locke: to wake them all up. He wants them all to realize they once had lives on the island. Which -- I am assuming, but could be wrong -- will probably happen at the exact moment MIB tries to blow it up. Sideways Desmond seems more interested in making the Losties whole than saving the island, but perhaps doing that would save the island, and also reunite him with Penny. In which case, the answer to all of your questions is yes.

I like the idea of him being a fail-safe. His whole purpose was to turn that key. That seems to be his purpose again.

Honestly, Liz, I feel less settled after this episode than I do after last week's.

Liz: I do, too. Though this Desmond stuff makes me wonder how much confidence Jacob could possibly have in his replacement (Jack) if he felt it necessary to bring Des to the island as the ace up his sleeve. Speaking of which -- was Widmore's only purpose in coming to the island to bring Des? Was he essentially totally played by Jacob?

Jen: This is one of the things that left me feeling unsettled. I still don't understand the deal with Widmore. He was fixated on the island, on getting back, on protecting it. But why? We once speculated that he wanted to exploit it (perhaps because Ben said he did), but I don't think that's true. So now he's dead and I have no idea what purpose he served.

Liz: I think, as he stated, he was there to fight a war -- which meant preventing MIB from leaving. But it seems that his role in the war was as more of a foot soldier rather than a general. He got Desmond in place and was no longer needed. Sadly, he was the last to realize that fact.

Jen: But why does he care about protecting the island? Because it's his native land? Why be so invested in that war? Can you tell this is bugging me?

Liz: He cares about the island because he realizes that if it ceases to exist or if MIB is able to leave, that it will mean the end of the world. And, even if Widmore doesn't give a fig about the rest of us, we know he cares about Penny -- his daughter.

Maybe you can put this question to LindeCuse in person later today.

Jen: Maybe. Your explanation helps a little. But now I have another bone to pick: that Jacob campfire speech.

First of all, everybody, not just Hurley, can see him now. Why? Not entirely sure. So he sits his core foursome down -- Kate, Jack, Sawyer and Hurley -- and says he's going to explain everything. But I didn't feel like I got much of an explanation. He made the monster -- more or less we saw him do that last week, right? And as for why he chose the four of them -- they were all lonely? So is everyone on the island. So are a lot of people. Why them? WHY??? WALT!!!

Liz: Well, and to add to that bone -- which may be well picked before we're through with it -- he tells Kate that her name was crossed off the list because she became a mother. But, umm, the Kwons had not been crossed off the list and both of them were parents. Not to mention Claire, who was already a mother when she was brought to the island in the first place. Sure, Aaron was in vitro utero then, but he was there.

Jen: And technically, Sawyer's a father, too.

Liz: More of a deadbeat dad, but yes.

Jen: I actually have a couple of potential reasons for that. For one thing, Kate was looking after Aaron. And if Aaron is important -- and Lord knows if we'll ever find out whether or not he is -- that could have been part of it. Also, Jacob may have thought at the time that Aaron had no other caretaker options without Kate. That's the best answer I have. Well, that and Jacob just isn't making a whole lot of sense to me right now.

Liz: True. But, if that was the case, then why bring her back? Because Jacob was the one who not only brought them in the first place, but also got each of them on the Ajira flight. I'm just not sure Jacob is as reliable a source of information as we've been led to believe. As we saw last week, he was kind of a mama's boy and swallowed everything Mama Janney told him hook line and sinker. So he may be operating on mistaken assumptions himself.

Jen: One thing I did like about Jacob, though: his reference to Morrissey. Get ready for another Chaney pop music digression. It's going to be something special! Here goes.

Liz: I can't wait.

Jen: Jacob told Jack that there is a light on the island that must never go out. Which of course, reminded me of the Smiths song "There is a Light That Never Goes Out." A song that -- and here's where I start mistaking a lot of coincidences for fate -- Morrissey and co. finished recording at... Jacobs Studios.

The lyrics to the song actually seem nicely tied in to Lost:

And if a double-decker bus
crashes in to us
to die by your side
is such a heavenly way to die
and if a ten ton truck
kills the both of us
to die by your side
well the pleasure, the privilege is mine
There is a light that never goes out
There is a light that never goes out
There is a light that never goes out
There is a light that never goes out
You know, just in case you didn't catch that the first time.

Liz: Ahhh. Hmm, or maybe to borrow from another Smiths song, Jacob and MIB are human and they need to be loved. Just like everybody else does.

Jen: I'd also like to add that Morrissey's birthday is this Saturday, the day before the Lost finale. Case. Closed. What case? No idea.

Liz: So, anyway... All of this Jacob talk segues nicely into a question I have about MIB.

Have you once heard the guy say he was trying to find or get back to this golden light source at the center of the island? I haven't. As I recall, he's talked about leaving the island and his desire to find and kill Desmond and -- as of tonight -- now wants to destroy the island (with an assist from Desmond somehow). So is Jacob over-estimating the importance of his little golden light cave or is MIB just seeing a way bigger picture than his more naive brother ever did? As in, "I don't need to find your little golden cave to win because if I annihilate the entire island it'll be gone anyway?"

Jen: Holy crap! Just saw this on Twitter. Other people think like me. I am frightened.

Liz: You and me both.

Jen: Well, maybe Jacob is projecting here. Maybe he has some idea that if MIB goes back to the place where he was born -- that being the light source -- he can be killed. So that's why he's emphasizing it so much with Jack.

Liz: I get that -- but as far as I can tell, returning to the light source doesn't seem to be factoring into MIB's plans. He's all about finding Des, which may lead him to the light source anyway.

One more thing about Jacob. He said he brought the Losties to the island because they were all flawed, like him. But aren't humans inherently flawed? In which case, couldn't he have brought anyone to the island? And is it really so horrible to be flawed -- isn't it what, in large part, makes us human?

Or am I just trying super hard to justify my own flawed existence?

Jen: Yup. They were lost people, if you'll pardon the pun. But yes, many people are. Much as many people are lonely.

I feel like we've been pretty negative here. (Or maybe it's just me.) Were there any things we liked about the episode?

Liz: Well, I'm a cheap date I suppose because I was utterly tickled to see a well-put-together Danielle Rousseau surface in sideways world (yay Mira Furlan for finally agreeing to the cameo) and, as always, it was good to see Ms. Ana Lucia Cortez again, even if it was to take a bribe. Which struck me as a very un-Ana Lucia-like thing to do.

Jen: Rousseau's appearance was fantastic. Her line to Ben, in which she demands he come over for dinner -- "We insist, even if we have to kidnap you" -- was priceless.

Liz: But speaking of Rousseau, it did seem as if she and Ben were thisclose to making a love connection in sideways world.

Jen: Possibly. Would be nice if they raised Alex together, wouldn't it?

Liz: Indeed. So it could be that spoiler about Ben finding an unexpected love wasn't a complete red herring. It just came a couple of episodes later than expected.

Jen: I also liked seeing Jack finally take the leadership role without any sense of concern. In the sideways world he's even enlightened. He told Locke not to mistake coincidence for fate, a line we first heard on the show from Mr. Eko and, later, from Locke, in an Eko echo.

Liz: Yes, another repeated line: "What if all of this happened for a reason." This time from John Locke, who as I mentioned way up at the tippy top of this analysis, is again a man of faith in sideways world.

Speaking of lines, there was one that gave me pause tonight that maybe shouldn't have. Let me run it by you and see what you think. When Kate, Hurley and Sawyer (who seemed ridiculously superfluous in this episode) were watching Jack be anointed by Jacob, Hurley said "I'm just glad it's not me." It seemed odd that he'd voice that, even if he was thinking it. It also had me wondering if he would end up eating those words in the finale. Meaning that he may not be "the one," but he may still have an important part to play in stopping MIB.

Jen: Could be. I found it interesting that he could see young Jacob. The only other person who has so far is MIB, I think.

Liz: I think you're right. It seems Jacob can select to whom he reveals himself.

Jen: All I know is, my head hurts. I was hoping it would hurt less at this stage in the game but it doesn't. I might have to table this discussion until 2 p.m., lest I get a nosebleed.

Liz: Yes, let's stop here and reconvene at 2 p.m. ET. I'm ready for some enlightenment of our own, courtesy of reader comments.

So, until 2?

Jen: My light will not go out before then.

Liz: Excellent.

By Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly  | May 19, 2010; 10:22 AM ET
Categories:  Lost  | Tags:  Lost  
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Comments

My take on seeing ghosts: Hurley does not actually have a special ability to see the dead. Rather, he has an open mind and heart that the dead sense and thus they choose to appear to him. Remember at the lighthouse, when Hurley asked Jacob why he didn't just tell Jack himself what he wanted him to do. Jacob's response was along the lines of "Some people you can just talk to [reveal yourself to] in a taxi and tell them what to do. Others are not so open, need a more subtle approach." I think by last night, the other Losties had finally reached the point where they would accept and believe in Jacob, and so he finally chose to appear to them.

Posted by: PQSully | May 19, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

I'm placing all my trust in Desmond's plans, in both timelines. I also don't get the point of the phone call to Jack, but on Lostpedia the theory is that David's concert is at Miles's father's museum, which will allow Desmond to bring together most/all of the 815 crowd and their significant others.

Good call on the inconsistent treatment afforded parents other than Kate, Liz (and don't forget Michael). It's hard to see why Kate's name would be crossed off (even if that doesn't actual mean anything) but Sun's and/or Jin's wouldn't be. BTW Aaron isn't a test tube baby and he was in utero, not in vitro.

Is Richard dead? Could he still have his immortality, especially since Jacob wasn't yet totally dead? They do seem to be clearing away most of the loose ends (except, why is Miles still around?) so maybe that means Richard is as dead as Charles. Zoe's death was almost as satisfying as Dogen's and Ilana's. She was getting very annoying.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I liked Miles' comment "You know I get wonky around dead things."

Posted by: beta1 | May 19, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Maybe, PQSully. Or maybe it was the actual presence of Jacob's burning ashes which allowed the others to see him.

Unrelated, but when Kate saw Claire at Kate's house two years ago ("Don't you dare bring my son back to the Island") who was that? Claire, who has never left the Island? Dead Claire, even though Claire has never died? MIB, who can't travel over water? So it was who, Jacob?

And who was older, taller, ghost Walt?

Two of the many things I WON'T be expecting answers for on Sunday.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I liked this episode, and feel like it sets up the finale pretty well.

I have no problem with Jacob bringing them all to the island because they were lonely and flawed. It's not like I expected him to say "Well, I brought Desmond here because he's the master of magnetism, and Locke becuase he's really smart and bald, and Hurley becuase he's big and hairy and always has a good quip, and Sayid because he's as tenacious as a wolverine..." He's not recruiting the XMen. He's gathering people who are basically unhappy and seeing if any of them shape up as a potential replacement. Is it a bit cruel to do so? Sure. But life is cruel.

And does Jacob have all the answers? Of course not. His "mother" probably only gave him just enough information to make him think he knew what was going on. Just as whoever made her the guardian gave her just enough info to think she had it all figured out.

I just hope that the theory of "merging" the two timelines is not correct, because lord what a bloodbath it would have to be to make sure there is only one incarnation of each character to make that work.

And I was a bit disappointed with Richard's death. I think he deserved a little better than that.

Posted by: louiesully | May 19, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I was just sorely disappointed in "I picked you all because you were lonely". That was trite and boring, especially when you consider all the flashbacks and the interconnectedness of the characters.

I think LindCuse are just tired and want this over and done with.

Posted by: Chasmosaur1 | May 19, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Re merging, it's looking more and more like the timelines will be merged only in that a) everyone in the original timeline will die, but b) their sideways doppelgangers will all have full memories of the Island, so it will be like our original Losties continue to live on but in happier, sappier existences. IMO that's worse than if the timelines merged in a more even way, but maybe that's just me.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I watched LOST and then had LOST dreams all.night.long.

Speaking of all the lonely people, where do they all come from? And where do they all belong? No one was saved.

Desmond is trying to get everyone together, just as Locke & Eloise did, but I've got no theory on why. I'm just along for the ride at this point.

Posted by: mat00 | May 19, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

My guess is that Miles is still around b/c he has the walkie talkie that Ben took from Widmore. It seems likely that everything that happened in that room was broadcast back to Miles, who will most assuredly meet up with Desmond running through the woods or Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Hurley. Basically, while Ben is still super evil, he's working with the same utilitarian motives he always has. And if that means he gets to kill Widmore in the process, so be it.

Posted by: wormsparkly | May 19, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I had a different take on the "protect the light" thing. Yes, the focus on the light is new; all season, MIB has been focused on getting off the island by killing all the candidates, which we now know was to prevent Jacob from finding a replacement. But why? What does Jacob do that is so important that MIB needs to get rid of him? And how would killing him free MIB?

As of last week, we know the answer to that: Jacob protects the light. The same light that MIB tried to use 2000 years ago to get off the island -- and that someone later did manage to use to create the frozen donkey wheel escape. The light is the way off the island.

So I suspect that the light was always MIB's end game. First, he had to kill Jacob, so Jacob couldn't protect the light. Then he had to kill the candidates, so Jacob couldn't find a replacement protector. Then he could finally get to the light, so he could use it to get off the island -- we just didn't know that, because the plan hadn't advanced that far.

The interesting thing to me was that Desmond seemed to be a game-changer. As of the beginning of the episode, MIB was still executing the plan (umm, no pun intended): tracking down and killing the candidates so he could get to the light. But once Whidmore told him about Desmond, that seemed to give him a whole new plan: somehow, he now knows that he can just directly use Desmond to escape, and doesn't need to worry about the candidates any more.

Posted by: laura33 | May 19, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

"I brought you here because you were flawed." is just lazy writing! Hello! Welcome to the human race, a$$h@(&! There are lots of other ways to say essentially the same thing: "I brought you here because I saw something in each of you that I thought might make you willing and able to take over for me and because I wasn't taking you away from happy, satisfying lives, I could justify it to myself." I'm not a professional writer or anything, so I'm sure it could be much better than that, but I still think it's better than ". . .because you were flawed!"

Posted by: talleyl | May 19, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I nominate mat00 for comment of the week!!

Posted by: talleyl | May 19, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Could Ben be playing double agent right now with MIB, still working for good, or at least better? I mean, he now realizes how he was manipulated into killing Jacob. Granted killing Widmore may have been a vengenance thing, but also I thought for a moment that he was preventing him from sharing info with MIB in desperation to protect Penny, even if MIB later stated he already knew.

Posted by: VAjyd | May 19, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

laura, I think I'm in general agreement with you except that regarding combining two of your points, I thought that maybe until Widmore explained Desmond to him, MIB didn't know that the specific way he could destroy the Island and thus escape was to use Desmond to access and then destroy the light. Up until then his plan was merely to get Jacob and all his candidates dead and he figured he'd be able to leave normally (boat, sub, plane) then. But it could be your way.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

This episode is held together with bubble gum and duct tape. Richard is supposed to be immortal, and he's been marooned on the island for hundreds of years. And yet Smokey can wipe him out with a right hook and that's it? The explanation for Kate's name being crossed off is that "she is a mother," unlike the REAL mother, Sun? The writers are betraying their own creation with this sloppy episode. Why was Widmore's chick with glasses given so much screen time and then casually wiped out? I mean, I hated her, but that was almost as harsh as the way they killed off Nikki and Paolo. I can understand why Ben would want to kill Widmore, but what are his motives for killing anyone else? To have the island all to himself, even though he knows Smokey is going to destroy it?

More than anything, I resent the gratuitous and casual way that many of our favorite characters are being wiped out. Lepidas is dead without a single tear being shed. We recently watched an entire episode focused on Richard, and now he's (presumably) been swatted like a fly.

We are being cheated by a bunch of lazy script writers...

Posted by: jerkhoff | May 19, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

"Could Ben be playing double agent right now with MIB, still working for good, or at least better?

Posted by: VAjyd"

He could be. And I just saw a lostpedia theory that Widmore is NOT dead, that in a scene we didn't see, presumably before Ben went outside, Widmore and Ben worked up a charade between them whereby Ben would pretend to shoot Widmore after Widmore had given MIB some misinformation. I'm not really buying it, but the theory's author reminds us that when Ben confronted Charles in London he said they couldn't kill each other but that he was going to kill Penny in revenge for Alex's death. The theorist thinks that's true, that Ben couldn't kill Charles, so the shooting was faked.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Also wanted to say: I was generally a lot happier about this episode than last week's -- mostly because of what I just posted, that they seemed to tie the whole "magical light" thing into the storyline that we have been watching.

Also, much as I detested Ben in earlier seasons, I am not sure he's gone over to the dark side. I think he realizes that he's a walking dead man, but is trying to stay alive long enough to affect the end game. Thus the walkie-talkie (which, I agree, was on and broadcasting to Miles the whole time).

On Whidmore: I thought Ben killed Whidmore to try to PREVENT Whidmore from spilling the info on Desmond to MIB -- it was right after Whidmore started whispering to MIB that Ben shot him. Putting that together with the walkie-talkie in the pocket, I absolutely saw that as part of a hastily-thought-out plan protect the island (though of course he wasn't exactly going to be sorry to see Whidmore bite it, either, especially right after walking over Alex's grave).

Then again, I totally overthought Whidmore earlier in the season (thought he was in league with MIB), so I may well be overthinking Ben as well. . . .

Posted by: laura33 | May 19, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I don't quite get whey Ben didn't just kill Charles right away. I guess he was at first practical and reluctantly listened to Charles, but later he just said the heck with it and indulged his rage.

I do note that he didn't kill him too soon - MIB got the info he wanted. If Ben had killed him ten seconds earlier, MIB would have learned nothing, been extremely put out, and presumably would have pulped Ben.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Sawyer and Desmond were able to see young Jacob this season. And, I think Jacob's ashes had something to do with his appearance to Jack, Kate, Hugo, and Sawyer.

Posted by: distance88 | May 19, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

I knew when it happened that the walkie talkie will be of significance and I like the theory by wormsparkly that Ben broadcast the events in the secret room to Miles who will get a head start on double crossing MIB's plan. I think that Ben is pulling a "Snape" and will be a good guy. His means may not be all good, but the end will be. Only 4 more days til it's all over ... and I can (maybe) get part of my brain back that's been noodling this show for almost 6 years!

Posted by: BabaBoohi | May 19, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

I felt totally ripped off by Ricardus' death at the hands of MIB. I mean, dude is nigh on demi-god status, gets this awesome redemptive story line in ab aeterno, and then his big send off is a fate barely befitting a red-shirt.

I get that he's just a Jacob flaky, but come the fudge on! Doesn't he at least deserve more, maybe a few second shot of him reunitting with his long lost wife as he passes into the afterlife, mangled and crippled, bloody and hanging from a tree in the jungle?

Posted by: konflikt | May 19, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

But isn't it still possible that MIB is right and Jacob is wrong? (not necessarily in terms of good and evil, but MIB sinking the island would preserve the sideways world whereas having someone there to continue protecting the island ala Jacob will keep everyone stuck in this limbo?)

It still seems to me that in order for this cycle to end (a cycle that as far as we know people have been maintaining simply on blind faith) the island needs to go.... no island = no flight 815 plane crash = sideways world prevails.

Posted by: chombie13 | May 19, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I have never posted to these chats, but I really liked last nights episode and liked the way Desmond was trying to bring the Losties together. I have a theory about the Dharma initiative and Jacob instructing Ben to kill all of them. If the light is the way off the island for MIB, and the Dharma initiative was trying to get to the electromagnetic source (the light), wouldn't Jacob want to stop them? They may have accidentally freed MIB by disturbing the light at the center of the island. Just a theory to help explain one of Ben's actions.

Posted by: neilberger | May 19, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

My sister's aggravated and thus deliberately run-on and largely unpunctuated theory. I think she may have the broad 'What' down cold although I'm as much at sea about the specifics of 'How' as I've ever been:

"So there will be some war at/past the bamboo field, and Jack will kill MIB/Smokey but in doing so will kill himself, either accidentally, out of necessity, or, most symbolically, as a reluctant choice, which will be good (we will be led to believe) because look how tired and haggard Jacob got and how tired and evil Mother got being guardians all those years, and even Richard wanted to die, and Jack even asked last night “How long will I have to do this?” and it’s insupportable to suggest that he would have to do it for more than a week, so this will be presented as a good thing, Jack dying in defense of the island, to keep Smokey bottled up, and hey, the island, and the Jack (and the Sun and Jin and everyone else) we’ve known will all be dead/gone but look over here, there’s this other Jack that’s much happier anyway, let’s deal with this one. Happier, L.A.-based, SWT Jack will have weird flashes of the island, and may be imbued somehow with some memories of it, but it will just make him cherish Juliette and weird-eyed kid more, and that cool Juliette gets to live so that’s awesome, and maybe they and Sawyer and Kate will barbeque sometimes, you know, and Locke could come now that he walks, they will have an 815 reunion each year and now he can even bury his father whose body has turned up so that’s cool and it’s sad he’s dead but look there’s Claire and she can live with Jack and Kid and maybe Kate will babysit for her…..

So...still not sure why we needed the island for this? Which I’m afraid is how it will end. But were these people so, so messed up that they needed 6 years on an island to straighten them out? Was that the only way to redeem them? I mean in SWT they seem to have it pretty figured out already...oh, but that’s post-bomb explosion."

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

"This episode is held together with bubble gum and duct tape. Richard is supposed to be immortal, and he's been marooned on the island for hundreds of years. And yet Smokey can wipe him out with a right hook and that's it? "

I don't think of Richard (or Jacob) as Immortal. Just really long lived. They can be killed, but in the absence of violent death will live indefinitely. Remember that when Ben gassed the Dharma village Richard entered the village wearing a gas mask.

This being said, I'm not thrilled with so many gratuitous deaths either, especially Frank and Richard's. I don't think they're done though.

I also think that Ben is back to playing his own game though. He's not for the losties or for smokey. He's doing what he thinks will leave him as the last man standing. Getting to shoot Widmore (an anagram for die worm) was just gravy. And this time he didn't forget the gravy.

Posted by: louiesully | May 19, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I agree with BabaBoohi that Ben will ultimately end up doing the right thing. He got his revenge on Widmore and also kept himself alive long enough to make amends at the end, and perhaps prove that Jacob "wasn't wrong about him."

Posted by: chombie13 | May 19, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Line of the night Miles "What's that, a secreter room?"

Posted by: HardyW | May 19, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Neck wound = Locke's new Knife O Doom? (whatever happened to the knife Dogen gave Sayid?)

Posted by: HardyW | May 19, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Heart of Lost = confused nerd bounced around and tossed aside?

Posted by: HardyW | May 19, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"Zoe's death was almost as satisfying as Dogen's and Ilana's. She was getting very annoying." - uniqueID

Agreed!

My prediction -- Jack is a goner in LA X. This will be a concert his son will never forget :(

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 19, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I think that David's "concert" that Des is taking Kate to is the Faraday/DriveShaft concert that Eloise was planning. Recall that Desmond wanted to see the guest list when he showed up during a rehearsal, and they wouldn't let him. Also think that Penny is David's mother. That would make him have the same mad piano skills as his uncle (or step-uncle) Daniel Faraday/Widmore (the song that David was playing at his audition is the same song that Faraday was playing at the rehearsal -- Chopin's Fantaisie-Impromptu), and it would make sense that his grandma (or step-grandma) Eloise invited him to play at the concert.

Posted by: aoconnell1 | May 19, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I think if I were cast in a small part on Lost I too would mess with reporters by telling them I was incredibly important. Why not?

Posted by: Roxie1 | May 19, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

As far as the mother thing being a disqualifier, i think it's just as simple as Jacob's own statement that he wanted them to all have the choice he wasn't given. In his experience he felt that his mother chose her sons (and eventually, by elimination, him) because they were her sons and therefore he essentially inherited the position. He would simply prefer to avoid having a mother choosing her child by default.

Posted by: improved | May 19, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Don't be so hard on Jacob, Jack, and Desmond!

I usually like your witty comments on the show, but I did not like your analysis of Desmond and Jacob.

I would be shocked to discover that Desmond's motives are anything but good. I think that He's seen the past, present, and future of both time lines. He knows who his actions will help or harm, and there's no way his intentions are hurtful. And since he knows how it will play out, he can't even accidentally hurt someone.

Also, Jacob and Jack seem to be the favored punching bag of many commentators. Why do some people get hired while other equally qualified people don't? Jacob made a subjective decision based on qualities that he preferred for the next person to take the job. His explanation was simple enough. The job is to protect the island and defeat the monster that he accidentally created. The four understood the job, and they understood why Jacob brought them. They are all arguably better people because of their experiences on the island, and they all shut up after they heard Jacob's explanation. They also all realized that Jack was the best choice for the job. That was the point of Sawyer's sarcastic comment, Kate's rebuttal, and Hurley's sigh of relief.

Don't be so hard on Jacob, Jack, and Desmond!

(Loved Miles' survival quip!)

Question: Is Richard actually dead? Bummer.

Looking forward to the conclusion!

Posted by: jack73 | May 19, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

i hated seeing Frank and Richard snuffed so suddenly, too, but do remember that we've still got 2.5 hours to go. And I do think that it will be nigh unto impossible for Lost to end in a way that will please everyone: for the truly obsessed, it has been so analyzed to a fair-thee-well that i don't think it's possibly to completely surprise everyone.

But... I have faith in the writers. They have taken us down a long and fascinating road these 6 years. There is always a bit of letdown when a good journey comes to an end. But I expect to enjoy it to the end.

Posted by: PQSully | May 19, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

What an episode. Fate/free will came full circle last night - it was truly like watching an episode from season one or two and watching how things have changed, yet remained the same in the past 6 years. If the producers truly planted those ideas and that discussion in our heads so early with the intention of wrapping things up this way, they truly must have had things planned way ahead of time. Bravo - let's see it all come to a head this Sunday. I can't wait. http://thesmogger.com/2010/05/18/looking-at-lost-the-five-best-risks-the-show-ever-took/

Posted by: mksmogger | May 19, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm holding out hope that Ben has not reverted back to his evil ways. I think he has a plan since realizing that the monster has been summoning him. After all he is "DR. Linus." He realized something after Desmond beat him and then had a weird calm again like when he realized what the island does to you when it's done with you (after Ilana's death).

Desmond was my favorite last night especially after walking into the holding cell with Sayid and Kate and saying "Hello." Creepy fantastic...love it!

I'm just concerned about fugitives walking into a piano recital. I mean Miles is a detective and will be there...will he not remember arresting Desmond just 8 hours before...will he not recognize Kate although she'll be in a LBD? I sincerely hope they are going somewhere else (like to kill Elliose for some answers or something).

Posted by: grapeeape | May 19, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if anyone else said this, but Sawyer also saw young Jacob... here's something from lostpedia:

Shortly afterward, the Man in Black, accompanied by Sawyer, encountered the boy again. Unlike Richard, Sawyer claimed to see the boy. The boy ran away from the two of them, and the Man in Black gave chase. He tripped, fell, and looked up at the boy, who said to him, "You know the rules. You can't kill him."

Posted by: needmoredesmond | May 19, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

You missed my favorite line from the night which came from Jacob, "It's just a line of chalk, Kate." It was such a LOST move, to have something in the season that we are all trying to figure out what the heck it might mean and then have someone completely dismiss it. Oh how I will miss such things...

Posted by: tookiecj | May 19, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Looking ahead to the season finale, I think it's interesting, with all of the religious undertones throughout the series, that it happens to be Pentecost Sunday, the "birthday of the Christian Church". Jack SHEPHERD, son of Christian, was always destined to assume the role he did last night. Charlie, Desmond, Mr. Eko all had religious past histories. Hi, Wendy & Josh! Miss talking Lost to you!

Posted by: almostretired | May 19, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

After reading the comments, I, too, am not convinced that Ben has crossed back to the dark side of the force. Instead, I think he knows he's a goner and is biding his time to see if he can effect the outcome.

I also was disappointed with Richard's "death," especially after he so pointedly explained that he "knows this guy" and that MIB would still try to convert him. His significance to Jacob and the island (even if he was misled) was given short shrift with his exit. Having said that, it seems that the deaths of Ilana, Richard, and Frank can be explained to some extent as them being a means to an end. Each of them served a purpose -- Ilana: to protect the candidates, Richard: to serve as Jacob's "consigliere," and Frank: to get the Losties to the island (remember Frank was supposed to be on Oceanic 815 in the first place). Now that they've fulfilled that purpose they are no longer needed.

Does anyone else think that Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley may, eventually, end up deciding to protect the island with Jack? They conceded the task last night, but I'm not convinced that they'll leave him alone to do it (remember Kate saying to Jack, "We need to kill him (Locke)" (emphasis on "we").

Finally, if Locke is intent upon destroying the island, the scene of the island underwater from the beginning of season might suggest that he succeeds, but that it won't really matter in sideways world because folks appear to have fuller lives there. The "memories" they see from their island lives may possibly serve as touchstones for their development from lonely, flawed people to whole individuals.

Posted by: clw96 | May 19, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

One more thing---don't be so fixated on the mother thing.

Kate was Aaron's surrogate mother. Claire had become to crazy to be a real mother. So Jacob no longer considered Kate an ideal candidate, but he is NOT God. "The job is yours if you want it Kate."

Yes Sun was a real mother, but Jacob couldn't have known that bringing her back to the island would kill her. Maybe he brought her back to keep Jin (the actual Kwon candidate) in play. Either way, it WAS NOT A FIRM RULE!

Also I agree that it sucks when cool characters like Richard are just instantly wiped out, but that isn't necessarily lazy script writing. Maybe they are just trying to keep the show surprising.

Posted by: jack73 | May 19, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

On the Zoe actor messing with reporters:

I'm with Roxie1. Just because we don't like the role doesn't mean we should dislike the actress.

First the context: these reporters are shamelessly trolling our actors in the hope that they will trip up by revealing finale spoilers. She told them her name was on every page of the finale script and that Zoe is the key to everything, Zoe knows everything.

C'mon, that's hilarious! She later explained to a different interviewer that each actor's name is watermarked on every page of their script.

Zoe is the key, she knows everything! I love it.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

So many flaws in last night's show I don't know where to begin. I get the feeling they are just shoehorning in crap sans logic. I think that once the show is over people will look back at last season's finale as the point where the show took a serious turn for the worst. It's just bad writing to introduce so many new and worthless characters this season, and some of the 'explanations' have more holes than swiss cheese.

I'm not someone who needed or expected to have everything answered. I just wanted the answers we got to follow the logic of the Lost universe created in the previous five seasons, not the whim of the writer that week.

Last week's episode was a momentum killer and, as evidenced by Jacob's campfire scene last night, completely unnecessary. The major beats would have been - in my opinion, natch - better revealed in a flashback or outright exposition to the remaining characters. It's not like we learned anything more than their pseudo-Mom was nuts, Jacob killed his brother and unleashed Smokey, and the skeletons were Mom and unnamed brother... which, again, defied the logic of season one (and science for that matter) when Jack says they clothes are 50 years old.

It's like the writers didn't watch the same show I did. Or they wrote Nash Bridges and my expectations were way too high. Or both.

Posted by: Skeeterrific | May 19, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Desmond evil in LA X??

No way. His facial expressions aside, remmber that it's Desmond and Hurley together. No way Hurley is evil.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

You can see the convergence of the two timelines coming in Ben's face. His scares and bruises on-Island and in the Sideways world were identical (and, man, how many times has Ben had the stuffing beaten out of him? He would definitely win the "Biggest Punching Bag" title in the Superlative contest).

"Across the Sea" showed MIB trying to use the Source to leave the Island hooking it to the donkey wheel. So it's not a stretch for Jacob to say that Smokey is still looking for the Light.

I don't want to believe that Richard is dead. If he is, his was an even more unceremonious demise than Lapidus's. Ilana got to go out with a bang, and there was even a brief pause to reflect on her departure. Richard deserved better.

Posted by: CafeBeouf | May 19, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Widmore's role changed:

Whatever his original motivations were, Widmore said that Jacob convinced him of the error of his ways. So there's no point trying to tie his current actions to his prior behavior.

Personally, I think his original motivation was simply to return and seize control of the island back from Ben. And then exploit it however he might.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Must agree that Jacob's "you're all flawed" speech was severely flawed. There's been so much great writing on this show, yet now the Losties finally had their big moment with Jacob and all they got was this lame explanation.

One plot development in this episode did give me some hope for the finale: Miles! With a walkie-talkie and some possibly important role to play!

Posted by: helpimlost | May 19, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Ok, Where the heck are Rose and Bernard? Why hasn't MIB been the least bit worried about them? If the Island sinks, as foreshadowed in the season premeir are they done? Both of them appear prominently in sideways world.

Posted by: cuestarey | May 19, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Why the conviction that Richardus is "dead"?

I think Jack will die on the island (knife wound) and Hurley will be The One.

Then Jillian Michaels will arrive and launch The Biggest Loser: Lost Boot Camp.

Posted by: chunche | May 19, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

And, Rose is not better off in sideways workd, she has terminal cancer.

Posted by: cuestarey | May 19, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Terry O'Quinn's acting:

The juxtaposition of tentative, good-guy Locke in LA X with confident, angry/evil Flocke was especially striking last night. What a great acting gig for Terry!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

And on the dead serious front, this one line from Ben was classic:

“He doesn’t get to save his daughter.”

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I also agree - lazy writing last night. Too bad. And I thought the week before's comment by the mother about "your questions will only lead to more questions" was a big middle finger to those of us who have been watching all along and just want a decent wrap-up.

I'm not getting Richard's character. He was there on Jacob's request to point people in the right direction, yet he recruited Ben to the Others and helped kill all the Dharma group. I guess this island's version of ethics is squarely in the "spare one for the good of the rest" thinking.

My favorite line of the night was Ben's "you said there were more people to kill?"

Posted by: sarahabc | May 19, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps we already know the answer to this question and I have just forgotten, amidst all the time travelling and post- and pre/non-island life, but looking back a few seasons... Did we ever figure out why MIB (then just known as smoke-monster)killed Mr. Eko? And was it really MIB who was presenting himself to Mr. Eko, asking him to confess his sins? How does that fit in to any of this??

And for the love of god, where are Bernard and Rose? I am going to be sorely disappointed if they don't get so much as a cameo in this finale...

Posted by: WestEndEliz | May 19, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

You know, I'm wondering if Richard is actually dead.

It's not wishful thinking or anything - Smokey just vaulted him into the woods. We saw no body. Being Richard, he could show up again, Mikhail-like on Sunday.

Posted by: Chasmosaur1 | May 19, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Only one day removed from the show and i'm already tired of hearing the complaints about Jacob's explanation of choosing the candidates because they are flawed. Seriously, what are you hoping to hear? He chose them because they had all eaten a magic jellybean when they were little? I've heard lots of folks say something to the effect of "I and half of my friends are looking for something or are flawed, we could have been candidates". If you look at the candidates lives before the plane crash, they all had pretty serious issues and wackiness going on in their lives. Most people don't have that going on. Does that mean there weren't thousands or even millions of other people out there that could have been candidates? Hell no. But here is the part that people are forgetting...it's a friggin' story. I guarantee you if the series had either started with or at some point gone off on a tangent about how Jacob had eliminated 753,431 people as candidates because candidate #1 wasn't living a life that would allow them to get on a plane to Australia, or candidate #576 wasn't pretty enough, or candidate #300,000 smelled funny, the show would've ground to a halt. I suspect that we'll learn more and ultimately be more satisfied with the fact that each person was chosen because they were "Lost" in their lives during the finale. It's the name of the show, after all. Everyone of these Lost people, in the sideways world seems to be converging and becoming part of something, less Lost. Worry less about how they were chosen among millions than the fact that they did seem to be really lost and about what they do with being chosen.

The best analogy i can think of is something like Star Trek. Do you wonder why the specific technologies that they use were developed (as opposed to other kinds of technologies)? No, because that is a useless exercise, and oh so boring to tell. Instead you care about what is done with them, if they are used in a way consistent with the world that Star Trek inhabits during the parts of the story that ARE interesting.

Posted by: improved | May 19, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the theory that Ben faked shooting Widmore. Check out the use of light in that scene; as Ben moves out the door just prior to the shooting, he moves from the dark into the light. I also suspect that anyone whose death/injuries we don't directly see is still alive, i.e. Widmore, Frank, Richard. But Zoe? Definitely dead.

Posted by: cubsbear9 | May 19, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

@improved... I do wonder why they never wear seat belts on Star Trek. Would seem to be much safer than bodies flying all over the bridge whenever there's an attack or some space turbulence.

Posted by: chombie13 | May 19, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

To fans who only see the glass as half full:

Yeah, I know. I’m an apologist. After all this time we’ve put into the show, they owe us. Blah blah.

But what’s the point? If a show as good as last night’s doesn’t appeal to you, shouldn’t you be thinking about what choices you are making as a fan? If all you notice are the things they *didn’t* do, and that completely destroys your pleasure in the things they did well, what is the point?

Here’s the question(s) I sent Jen for her interview with Darlton, which I would file under the keywords “separation anxiety:”

“Any thoughts on the growing anxiety that's been expressed by many fans this season? Did it ever occur to you that there would be a downside to winning over such a broad variety of viewers at such deep levels? They have invested so deeply in your creation -- and their expectations are so high -- that many are hardening themselves to be disappointed and are already bitter in anticipation of their fears. Did you anticipate this dynamic occurring before the finale even airs? “
.
.
Look, we all feel stressed by this thing ending. And we all experience it in different ways. But, really, you do have some choices about how you cope with it.

I loved last night’s episode – the many answers that nonetheless didn’t seem rushed, the sudden appeal of the LA X narrative, the great quips, the way Kate supported Sawyer in his despairing self-loathing by simply leaning her head on his shoulder. It was a great fricking episode.

After last night’s high, listening to everyone else’s negativity/stress is really depressing. Hello, we’re all stressed.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I read a lot of complaints about how Jacob/MIB and now the light were introduced so late and now have taken on too much importance. I counter that by saying that it's been about this all along. Would anyone have watched if you learned on the pilot that the show dealt with two thousand-year-old guys who fight with each other? The producers have had to build to this over time. It's like cutting through an onion, layer by layer.

So, first, it's people who crashed on a weird island and there are other people who live there. Then, we get down to Dharma, where people have come to the island before to study... something. Dharma is no different from the folks MIB joined up with in "Across The Sea" - eventually they got too close to the island's power and Jacob sent Richard to have them killed, just like Jacob's mother killed the other people. Then we learn that more people (the freighter) want the island for some reason. Then we learn that everyone on the island is guided by this mysterious ages-old struggle. We've gone through the onion, layer by layer, until we've gotten to the last mystery greater than even Jacob vs. MIB: the heart of the island. Remember the question mark on the map in the hatch so long ago? The series (or the island part) has to end at the source of the light. It's the ultimate reason that EVERYTHING has happened thus far. It's why it makes so much sense that Jacob would point out that it's very near where Jack woke up in the very first second of the very first episode.

Posted by: jf76 | May 19, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

@chombie13... heh, my biggest wonder was always how they kept managing to run across novel alien species that spoke American English.

Posted by: improved | May 19, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

1) Both Sawyer and Desmond have seen the "boy Jacob" ghost in earlier episodes this season, as well as MIB and Hurley. Richard pointedly did not see him. I think Jacob chooses who can see him at any given point.

2) Are we sure that Richard is dead?

3) Even though Jack is the protector for now, I'm NOT convinced that the series is going to end with Jack as the permanent "new Jacob" for multiple reasons. First, and most importantly in my opinion, I thought it was significant that when Jack asked Jacob how long he would have to protect the island, Jacob said, "for as long as you can". He didn't say, "for a REALLY long time like I had to". That could mean 1,000 years or 20 minutes....especially now that MIB has figured out the "loophole", enabling him to kill the island protector by proxy. That's why Jacob needed Desmond as a fail safe. LindeCuse keeps stressing that NOONE is safe at this point. Anyone can still die.

Second, it was odd to me that Jacob let them choose who gets the job when destiny was what governed all of the previous choices. Jacob implied that anyone whose name was on that wall, whether crossed off or not, could have been "the protector" if they wanted. That doesn't sound right to me. All this time, we have been under the impression that there are only a handful of viable candidates left. Alison Janney said to Jacob, "It was always supposed to be you, I see that now". I got the sense that she assumed MIB would be the chosen one and the fact that it was Jacob was unexpected to her. So, it's possible that Jack could get killed by Ben, leaving either Hurley, Kate, or Sawyer to unexpectedly have to take the job (Where's Clare?). Something told me that Hurley may have spoken to soon when he said "Glad it's not me".

Third, unless my memory is failing me, they have yet to address who the person was at #108 on the lighthouse dial whom Jack and Hurley were supposed to bring to the island. The surname next to 108 was "Wallace" and that's not Desmond or Widmore's last names. The producers have confirmed that several former regulars are returning for the finale, but they are not commenting on whether or not Walt will be back. I find that interesting. Since Michael signed over his parental rights to Walt, Walt's last name wouldn't be Dawson. Could #108 be either Walt or Aaron?

Random predictions: I think that Desmond has to go down into the cave of light like MIB did (which ended up turning MIB into the monster). Desmond can withstand "the light"/electromagnetic energy like noone else and Widmore asks him to make a great sacrifice to save the world. Maybe going down into the cave will affect Desmond differently. I also now think that the mother of Jack's son in sideways has got to be Juliet. Predictions are useless at this point, but I still can't help myself.

PS - Where are Rose and Bernard on the island?

Posted by: linswilliams | May 19, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else distracted by the fact that you can't burn up ashes? Ashes are already burnt. Its the material that is the unburnable part of burnable things. That's why they are left over a fire. Just me? Ok then.

Posted by: md268 | May 19, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

@jf76: I really like your onion analogy.

But, if "Dharma is no different from the folks MIB joined up with in "Across The Sea" - eventually they got too close to the island's power and Jacob sent Richard to have them killed, just like Jacob's mother killed the other people"

- how does that square with Ben's realization, if that's what it was, that he was taking direction from the monster, not Jacob? Was he doing Jacob's bidding the entire time, after all?

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 19, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Still nothing about the geneses of the two islands. That's what I would like to know.

Posted by: Lopaka2 | May 19, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

MeriJ, I am 100% with you. I think a lot of people are suffering from "but I don't want it to end this way" - itis. Especially these days, with web campaigns and viewer feedback often affecting whether a show continues or is canned, or moves forward according to fan pressure, I think it's easier to have the expectation that all stories must have a happy ending or that all mysteries must be solved. But great literature and great movies often leave you hanging, deliberately, to keep you thinking and wondering. That's the point. Thus the ending of "2001: A Space Odyssey" is still debated as to what it means. Thus "Gone with the Wind" ends with Scarlett losing Melanie to death and Rhett to jealousy, and the reader can only wonder whether she gets Rhett back, as she declares she will. If you ask "what's the point of having a character if they're just going to die summarily?" be prepared to reject all tragedy as meaningless. Sometimes the point is simply that death happens, it's unpredictable, we don't always get to finish what we want.

Okay, that was my little rant. Back to arguing about who Jack's ex is (I hope not Juliette; I want her and Sawyer to meet up for coffee and hit it off).

Posted by: PQSully | May 19, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: improved | May 19, 2010 1:05 PM

This is sort of what I have been thinking, too. Between last week and last night, things seem to have entered the more human realm. For most of the show, Jacob seemed like this magical, god-like being; he can appear and disappear at will; his touch somehow annoints "candidates" for some magical, undefined role; he can somehow call people to the island; and all the focus on having to kill Jacob to escape the island sure made him seem like some not-quite-human entity.

Then last week, we discover that he was just a kid -- and not even the "special" one at that. He is who he is because of the decisions he made and his own moral code, not because he was created or annointed as some all-powerful creature. He needs a replacement because he needs to protect the world from his mistake. He chose people not because they were special, but because they weren't: they were broken and alone. If they chose to stay on the island, they would be losing very little -- and they would leave no one behind to be hurt by their loss. Most importantly, he allowed the Lostees to make that choice themselves in a way he never had.

In short, the last two weeks seem to have transitioned from the mystical, wonderful Land of Oz to the man behind the curtain. The simple, plain language Jacob used to explain himself emphasized that point. It's not as fun and exciting -- there is less focus on mystical do-dads and supernatural powers. But what's more powerful: a story of clueless people being buffeted by powers beyond their understanding and control? Or a story about normal, flawed human beings searching for what's right, learning to overcome their critical failings, and choosing to take on a burden as heavy as protecting the world, even when they know it will likely cost them their lives? The former is bad sci fi; the latter is Shakespeare. (Ok, overstatement, but you get my drift)

Posted by: laura33 | May 19, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I was tickled to hear Sawyer refer to MIB as "Flocke" - a nod to the fans for sure.

Posted by: domino630 | May 19, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Who ordered the Dharma Purge:

I'm thinking it was MIB or Widmore acting on his own orders. (Wasn't he the leader at that time?) Jacob was not big on giving direct orders, plus the Purge didn't seem like his style.

Whereas Widmore ordered Ben to kill Danielle, etc. He was always a ruthless bastard.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

@PortlandMaine: Thanks. I think that Ben was being played by both sides for (at least) two reasons. 1) Ben had those lists, including the one at the end of season two that included only the names of the four people who happened to meet up with Jacob last night. Definitely possible that MIB had the list of candidates, but I think that came from Jacob. 2) It was Richard that guided Ben to kill the Dharma people and Richard is with Jacob. Also possible that Richard could be tricked, too. I'm hedging a little because absolutes are dangerous with this show, but it's my guess.

Posted by: jf76 | May 19, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

laura33 said: "In short, the last two weeks seem to have transitioned from the mystical, wonderful Land of Oz to the man behind the curtain."

Laura, your entire post (1:39 PM) is so wonderful. That plus jf76's comments, "improved's" Star Trek analogy and then PQSully actually mentioning me by name have entirely redeemed my afternoon.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Richard is dead. I think he is a mass of crushed bones wishing he could die.

Posted by: Ghak | May 19, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

So who is planning to drink away their sorrows with Jen & Liz in Adams Morgan tomorrow night? (Speaking of coping mechanisms...)

I hope to be there, ready to buy drinks for anyone I have offended. Or not, depending on how reliable/honest I really am. Heh heh.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

It’s an admittedly quaint notion to expect some moral lesson from a TV show. But Lost is inviting moral judgment with its good twin, evil twin theme. The smug, self-righteousness of the Jacob character has been an irritant since the finale of Season 5. My hope was that eventually he would be confronted by one of his many victims for an accounting. When this moment finally comes in the penultimate episode, Jacob silences Kate and Sawyer with the retort that their lives were flawed, that he had offered them redemption by trapping them on the island. But his justification is belied by the very end everything has served from the beginning, protection of the island’s “light”. So thousands of lives have been sacrificed to this end, and not just Jin’s, Sun’s and Sayid’s; but also hecatombs of hapless passengers and crews, generations of Others, the US military, Dharma workers, Widmore’s mercenaries, and even Jacob’s willing rescue team. That this light is nothing more than a natural phenomenon explained and controlled by human science (the great accomplishment of the Dharma Initiative), is a fact dismissed by a myth. Jacob’s moral purpose would be no less persuasive than if the abducted children were to be tossed into a volcano. In contrast the “evil” twin is like a captive djinni who wants only release and destruction of his prison. He is an amoral actor having been denied his humanity for millennia, extremely dangerous but no more evil than a caged lion. One wonders at the omission of one philosophical namesake from Lost’s cast, Immanuel Kant. He would have had no patience with the claim that rational beings could be used as mere means to an end. Perhaps he would even sympathize with MIB; Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.

Posted by: strao172 | May 19, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Do you think the two worlds will collide at the concert all the Losties are going to? Will there be some magical moment when they all reach enlightenment about their existence in both worlds?

Posted by: jolson8002 | May 19, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Do you think the two worlds will collide at the concert all the Losties are going to? Will there be some magical moment when they all reach enlightenment about their existence in both worlds?

Posted by: jolson8002 | May 19, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I like picturing the ending of the show like the movie Groundhog Day. It will be an endless loop. The minute the island blows up the whole thing starts again and again and again with all the same characters encountering one another in the sideways world but each time with minor differences happening.

Posted by: wiseupdummy | May 19, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Re: Smokey killing Mr. Ecko

Here's a theory. As long as Ecko was trying to be a good and peaceful guy, Smokey wasn't able to kill him. (I am assuming that he was a candidate, but I don't recall that being confirmed anywhere.) Once Ecko accepted the violence of his past as making him the person he was, and would continue to be, he was no longer a suitable candidate, and thus no longer had any protection from Smokey.

Posted by: Ghak | May 19, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Good post, strao172. A lot of the people Jacob brought to the Island were unhappy in the real world as of the date Jacob brought them there (though as you alllude to we don't know about all the nameless victims killed immediately in the crash of 815, etc.) but that doesn't mean their entire future lives were without hope of improvement - which is now so for the many like Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Juliet, etc. who have died.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I think all the losties WILL get together at the concert. And all I can say is that Charlie and Claire better be there. Those two belong together.

Posted by: louiesully | May 19, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I think Ben's in it for Ben. He's just going whichever way he sees as the most advantageous at any particular time.

Posted by: dablues1 | May 19, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

S'mores and hot cocoa by the fire would have been a nice touch.

Posted by: chunche | May 19, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I think we've seen all the "Rose & Bernard" we're going to see people. Bernard helped Jack in the sideways timeline. Rose interacted with Locke. There purpose is done...they've moved on.

Desmond said Ana Lucia wasn't ready yet. I think meaning she wasn't ready to see the error of her ways (being a crooked cop) and therefore could not be "exposed" to her time on the island yet, maybe even never.

@linswilliams: I thought the same thing last night when FLocke said Desmond's going to help me destroy the island. Desmond's got to go down into the "light." He won't turn into a smoke monster but perhaps something that can actually kill smokie.

Posted by: grapeeape | May 19, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

I do not agree that Richard is dead, I don't think MIB can kill him. I also agree with the others that Ben is playing MIB, and not back to being bad Ben.

Posted by: sivwiz | May 19, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

i was 50/50 on the episode, for all of the reason (pro's and con's) most of you have already discussed...

my biggest question (that i don't think anyone has talked about- not that there's much to say... but...)

WHERE IS CLAIRE (on island)?
last we saw her she was at the dock with M.I.B. ... now she's just MIA?

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 19, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Another great line:

"You don't seem like a cop to me."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm not so sure Ben has gone to the dark side. Is he really following MIB or waiting for his chance to turn on his old master? AS for killing Widmore, MIB was about to do so anyways, and Ben could have been trying to kill Widmore before he divulged anything important.

Posted by: victor11 | May 19, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, there are three loose cannons on the Island(s): Miles (somehere in jungle having heard events at Ben's house over walkie talkie); Desmond (freed from well, likely by Jack/James/Kate, now off on mysterious errand?); and Claire (last seen on dock on Hydra Island (now what for her?)

Posted by: UniqueID | May 19, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Is it possible that Claire freed Desmond? Where is she, anyway?

Posted by: starbuck13 | May 19, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

***runs from the room screaming!!***

Posted by: nall92 | May 19, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"He chose them because they had all eaten a magic jellybean when they were little?"

Ha! I loved this line, improved! And also posts by Laura33, meriJ and others - I can't see how the question of "why them" could be answered in any way that would be interesting and worthwhile. That kind of thing is bound to be either absurd or banal; leave it alone.

I also think the "welcome to the human race" bit is ridiculous. Really, how many people do you know that are vegeance-driven conmen with a secret heart of gold; fugitives who killed their best friend running from cops for killing their stepfathers, but again with a secret heart of gold; corporate henchmen who turned out that way only in a desperate attempt to be with the woman he loved; etc? Seriously, I am flawed and so is everyone I know, but none of are anywhere near as isolated by our flawed choices as the Losties are.

And now we find that their lives are being affected by two other people just like them (Jacob and MIB) - they were not necessarily bad from the start but have made desparate choices that turned out pretty badly. Which is a much more interesting story to me.

Posted by: LizaBean | May 19, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Everyone here is declaring Richard dead. Isn't it possible that he's still alive? Meanwhile, speaking of anti-climactic deaths: is that it for Frank Lapidus? Geez, what was the purpose of keeping HIM around?

Posted by: monk4hall | May 19, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

i agree with whomever said that those we didn't see DIE, die, are probably not dead. i include: Frank Lapidus, Richard, and even Widmore in that category. we know this show well enough to know that that's all very possible (i.e. Mikhail).

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 19, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Westendeliz asks: Perhaps we already know the answer to this question and I have just forgotten, amidst all the time travelling and post- and pre/non-island life, but looking back a few seasons... Did we ever figure out why MIB (then just known as smoke-monster)killed Mr. Eko? And was it really MIB who was presenting himself to Mr. Eko, asking him to confess his sins? How does that fit in to any of this??
----------
From Cuse's interview in SUnday's NYT:

CUSE On the other hand, we had all these fantastic intentions for this character Mr. Eko, played by Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje. But the guy got down to Hawaii, his whole crew that he rolled with was in London, he was 8,000 miles away, and he hated being there. So we were forced to completely cut bait on Mr. Eko. It’s not like J. K. Rowling; we don’t control every aspect of our world. We work and collaborate with many other artists, and he didn’t want to be on the show.
------
Answer: they had to kill Eko and retrofit some kind of explanation.

Posted by: monk4hall | May 19, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I think we have to give up on the idea that it's all going to hang together at this point.

Posted by: charodon | May 19, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm on the Richard isn't dead team.

I also really like this idea that Ben is playing Flocke. I had totally forgotten about the walkie talkie, thanks for reminding me.

The reply that they are flawed is totally fine with me, because they were all seriously messed up when they got to the island. I mean, seriously!

Posted by: smynola06 | May 19, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I fear those who appear to have been killed were indeed killed. It looked like Richard was slammed into a tree.

But, honestly, didn't you know that was going to happen as soon as he stepped out into the open space? Based on a lifetime of training in TV foreshadowing, I knew he was a goner, long before we heard smokie's rattle.

It's part of the cat and mouse game that writers use to build and release tension. They use time-tested clues to warn your subconscious that something bad will happen, so you get tense anticipating it. Then when it happens, you're pre-stimulated but ultimately relieved that it's over with.

Occasionally they do the opposite: put all the traditional cues but then do something different.

In horror films, the typical routine is a person walking down a dark hall with music, camera angles and body language screaming SCARY POPOUT AHEAD!!! They build the anticipation, build it more, then boom, a harmless cat jumps out. We laugh, tension starts to ebb, then BOOM!!!, the terrible popout thing happens.

Sometimes they do the horrible dramatic thing with no warning cues at all -- for greater shock value, like in real life. Some people find that annoying, as if the forewarning is part of our implicit writer-audience contract: "This is our escape; we already get that unanticipated scary stuff in real life."

But a well-liked character like Frank dying without warning or even mourning did seem particularly insensitive, didn't it? At least Richard got the "audience warning" cues.

He was probably tired of living anyhow, but we were not tired of him.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Today's piece was a little sloppy with regards to Lost mythology. I'm not saying these things were necessarily wrong, but last nights episodes didn't definitely contradict these things either.

Richard: how do we know he is actually dead? We don't know the rules about his immortality, but we also don't know if he was killed and not just launched into the jungle.

Kate/Sun mothers: we never had it clarified which Kwon was referred to on the wall. If Jin was the Kwon then the statement about being a mother is still valid.

Seeing young Jacob: Sawyer and I believe maybe Richard both saw young Jacob/MIB when they were walking through the jungle with Flocke. Hurley wasn't the first one to see him

Posted by: pcvhawley | May 19, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Who helped Desmond out of the well? Who put the rope down for him? When last we saw Desmond, he was convincing Sayid not to kill him. We then saw Sayid in a clearing looking up at the vines on the trees, presumably to find a vine to get Desmond out of the well. That's where MIB found Sayid and asked if he killed Desmond. So Sayid left him in the well (as confirmed by his comment to Jack about Desmond still being in the well).

So, where'd the rope come from, and who the heck got Des out of the well? Miles? Jacob? Rose and Bernard? Yes, that must be it. Vincent the dog runs back to Rose and Bernard, barking. "What is it boy, Desmond is in the well? Show us where. Good boy."

Posted by: itsasecret99 | May 19, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

hey MeriJ

i don't disagree with what you're saying about Richard, he could very well be dead. i guess my issue is- what happened to the immortality? i know people are interepeting it all differently, but when he said "then i never want to die" and jacob replies with "now that i can do".. i guess with him being alive an not aging for hundreds of years i took Jacob at face value there.

so the question is WHY did he die and HOW come he COULD die? and why did smokey/mib wait that long to wipe him out if he could have all along? i'm thinking maybe it has something to do with jacob dying but these are the little things that have been irritating me this season.

1. ben saying in s4 that he can't kill widmore, then killing him (as we're led to beleive) in a heartbeat last night.
2. mother Janney saying she made it so the brothers could never hurt each other, yet jacob bashes his brothers head against a rock throwing him down into the "smoke machine" :)
3. richard being immortal... or now suddenly and without warning or explanation he's dead?

i don't need nor want ALL of the answers.. i love the mystery... i just wish the consistancy of some of these things were more clearly defined is all.

still LOVE the show, and still love the sesaon for the most part... but that doubt and anxiety is starting to stir in me with only for days til the END!

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 19, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I like the idea that Claire helped Des out the well.

Posted by: smynola06 | May 19, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

video of Richard's death (or not):

I doubt it will last, but for now you can view a clip at YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HCm0yl1adw

I was wrong about Richard hitting a tree. You can clearly see smokie slam into him and then smokie stops and Richard's body keeps on flying through the air. But I do think he's dead. If smokie had carried him off, his odds were at least even.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Widmore is still alive.

Ben cannot kill him (as we learned a couple seasons back). Perhaps, Ben shot Widmore to save Widmore from the MiB - given that Ben knew he cannot kill Widmore.

Posted by: Cznzy | May 19, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

By the way, there were some GREAT comments today on here. Too bad I actually had to work today, gosh. ;) Hopefully I'll have a pretty clear and free Monday (fingers crossed!)

Posted by: smynola06 | May 19, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

And, Meri, I just watched the video and I still think Richard being dead is inconclusive. In fact, it looks as if he couldn't be higher than about 10 feet when smokey lets go. So if he knows how to land like a cat, he should be fine.

Posted by: smynola06 | May 19, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I think Jacob's comments about Kate's name being crossed off, but her still being able to accept the job if she wants it, are intended to be a clue for us about the "rules" of the island.

So, when a rule gets broken... maybe it's because there wasn't such a rule in the first place?

Just an idea.

Posted by: saltydog75 | May 19, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Rules are meant to be broken:

Just joking. But some of these rules do seem rather fluid, don't they?

smynola06: I just saw your earlier post. Richard seemed to have been granted immortality from aging or suicide, not acts of violence. He fully expected to die when he asked Jack to light the dynamite for him. And he wore the gas mask during the purge as louiesully (son of PQ?) mentioned.

I don't remember any rule suggesting that MIB could not kill Jacob. I figured he kept him alive for a purpose.

The Ben-Widmore rules had previously been broken when Alex was killed, so I don't know what to think about them. Were they natural laws, accepted rules of engagement -- or just what they were led to believe at the time? Ben was led to believe that he was taking orders from Jacob and summoning smokie, instead of the reverse.

Jack believed that MIB could not kill candidates directly, and it certainly seemed like he was correct. But Jack has replaced Jacob; so Hurley, Kate and Sawyer are no longer candidates and I'd say they are now vulnerable.

Janney did say "hurt," but at the time I thought she meant "kill," as in she'd made it so the boys couldn't kill each other. And, indeed, Jacob did not kill his brother. His actions took his brother out of his body.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I so so wish I could be at the Lost party on Thursday! I lived in Arlington VA in mid-80s, moved back to Boston where I met my husband etc but I wish I could use the FDW to time travel and be there!

Posted by: pamsmith92 | May 19, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

The show is not internally consistent:

I guess that's why some of you are annoyed and I am not. I never believed the writers had all this planned out in the first place.

I figured they had a few things clear from the beginning but otherwised improvised like crazy from week to week, trying to keep it interesting and mysterious. I assumed that even the explanations and the final scene they started out with had evolved or gone totally sidways over time.

So looking for everything to tie together was never an expectation for me. I expected certain things to make sense and expected to find that very cool. And even some of those things I assumed would make sense only because the writers figured out a way to explain them long after the fact.

But that doesn't take away from my enjoyment. To the contrary, it's like watching a high wire act, only with improv. Scary stuff, but if they pull it off on a number of key fronts, I'll be happy and impressed.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I wrote -- "smynola06: I just saw your earlier post."

Sorry, I meant to say "Jere1570."

Posted by: MeriJ | May 19, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

may have already been posted, but the concert that Jack's son is playing in has to be the same onee that miles is going to at his dad's museum ... all the losties will be there

Posted by: jmhii | May 19, 2010 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Still waiting for Rose and Bernard to charge out of the jungle astride two Giant Polar Bears and kill MIB.

You know you want it.

Posted by: WillSeattle | May 19, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Young Jacob, the boy, was a ghost, that is why Hurley and only Hurley could see him. After the ashes are put in the fire, the grown up Jacob appears. Thus, he is not a ghost; he is the reanimation so to speak, of Jacob's life force, his ashes, until they are gone, burnt away. Or something along these lines.

Posted by: consideract | May 19, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

The name written on the wall, Kwon, may not refer to Sun or Jin, but the daughter, who has lost both parents. That would tie that question up.

Posted by: consideract | May 19, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Back to making predictions!

o Claire is on hydra island. Probably alive. Not sure what she'll do over there. Learn how to fly the jet?

o Richard is alive, feeling really bad, but alive. Not sure why MIB hit him, maybe for fun. Sure was cool to watch!

o Desmond is very alive and heading to the light. Its all part of the plan...

o I'm sure Widmore is alive, but I would not be surprised if Ben shot him for vengeance and knew he could not kill him. I also agree with the possible plot that Ben/Widmore cooked up with Miles listening in on the walkie-talkie. Either way Ben is working against MIB with or without Widmore.

o If Sayid did not provide the rope to Desmond, and it could not have been Claire since she is still on hydra, then it must have been someone else, someone we have forgotten about, like Bernard/Rose or possibly Widmore/Zoe before they got to New Otherton.

o Where is Vincent?

o A theory that is growing on me:
Sideways world is the world where MIB has won. He destroyed the island and escaped. Where he might be in sideways world is not known, but, if we look for differences between sideways world and island world there is only one glaring difference, David. David is escaped smokey and who Jack's wife is will probably be a big clue to that fact. Once Jack gets all the information from island reality into his sideways-self (thanks to Des) he will know what David is and have a real tough decision on his hands. The only solution is to end the sideways reality and let island reality win out. Sideways Jack will work with Des, Daniel and some others (probably Charlie) to end sideways reality, which I believe was helped into existence by Eloise, who will try to stop them. I think Eloise made a deal with MIB to create sideways reality long ago, and have Daniel back. She will fight to maintain sideways reality since, in sideways reality she never shot her son. In other words, its all Eloise's fault that all of this has happened. Once sideways reality is gone Jack will assume his new role, keeping MIB trapped on the island. What happens to everyone else is not important but I'm guessing they all stay on the island to help Jack, telling MIB that he would have to kill them all to escape again. So realizing he will never leave he gives up trying to leave, and the world is saved.

Or maybe not...

Posted by: Fate1 | May 19, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

"Or maybe not..." Posted by: Fate1 |

I think this says it all Fate. I do love your outside the box theorizin' though.

Haven't read many posts yet but loved the show. I guess that may not have been a unanimous opinion.

Can't wait to see how they write in Shannon into the finale.

Posted by: dojemc | May 19, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Doc Jensen/EW online has a pretty funny set of videos with Jacob and MIB (the actual actors). They stay in character, but it's mostly silly. Each one cycles into the next, but videos 1, 2 and 5 are especially good. In number 4, I believe, they go out of character and talk about filming the show.

http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html

Posted by: MeriJ | May 20, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Ben could not kill W unless he came back to the island. Now they have a sack full of c-4 they will use it to seal the light??? It ain't over till it's over!! LOL

Posted by: RobotChicken | May 20, 2010 3:15 AM | Report abuse

Also I think W was after eternal life,fountain of youth the rich always chase that money can't buy!!

Posted by: RobotChicken | May 20, 2010 3:22 AM | Report abuse

"So, when a rule gets broken... maybe it's because there wasn't such a rule in the first place?"

EXACTLY! We keep hearing about all these "rules" but they all seem to be getting broken. I think there never WERE rules; people just believed there were and chose to obey them, lending credence to the theory. Until they break them and then... WHOA, the rules are broken!

Posted by: PQSully | May 20, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

pq and louie sully, happily married for three whole years! :-)

Posted by: PQSully | May 20, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Son, husband...you'll soon discover there's not much difference. Give it about four more years. You'll see. (Sorry Louie, I couldn't resist!)

Anyhow, I forgot that CHARLIE is your son. Will he be joining us at the Adams Morgan soiree? Or off killing worms? You know, if he weren't a dog, we'd have to recommend some counselling for that lad!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 20, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Why exactly did Jack drink the Kool-Aid? He has no explanation at all of what the light is or why it needs to be protected from MIB. He just went along with Jacob's manipulation and still has no clear idea of what is going.

Posted by: kirtu | May 20, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

• Re the Kwons, Kate asked Jacob: "Sun and Jin Kwon and Sayid Jarrah--you wrote their names on the wall?" Jacob answered, "Yes." Seems to be both Sun and Jin, not only one of them (or only Ji Yeon) who was meant/named.

• MIB's inability to harm Jacob: He can circumvent the ban on directly harming Jacob and Jacob's people by attacking indirectly. As Smokey he couldn't touch Bram when Bram protected himself inside the ash circle...but he could "attack" a section of ceiling which happened to be right above Bram and kill him that way. His attack on the candidates in the sub was similarly indirect. On the flip side, though Jacob couldn't directly kill or permanently harm his brother (punching doesn't count; Richard could punch himself or be punched by Jack or Hurley, just not be permanently harmed/killed/exploded), he could place his brother in a stream (not harmful in itself as MIB won't drown), which just happens to lead down to a cave where arguably he is harmed - at least changed - though not killed.

• Regarding Richard: I have to disagree with Meri that Richard's invulnerability was only in relation to aging or self-harm. Richard's third request was that he wanted to never die. Jacob said, "I can do that." It's pretty weak if all that he meant was you won't age and you can't kill yourself, but you can still be hurt/killed by any external actor. I think Richard's immortality must have meant more than that or it wouldn't mean much at all, especially on a place as violent as the Island.

• I still don't get why Sayid didn't kill Desmond but also didn't help him escape. I guess he was still coming out of his dark Sayid phase but wasn't all the way reformed yet, and wanted to leave his options open and still have the choice of killing Des later - or not have Des show up suddenly and reveal Sayid's deception to MIB.

Posted by: UniqueID | May 20, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

willseatle- hilarious! love it.

fate1 & meriJ - great anyalysis. still wondering myself why sayid didn't kill des or help him out.

meri- i most definitely think MIB can't (couldn't) kill Jacob. whether it be a "rule" or not, his whole existance (since we've seen him on the show) has been to find a loop hole to kill Jacob because he himself could not. he went as far as telling Jacob how badly he wanted to kill him, so i don't think there is any doubt that there is/was certainly something governing him to literally not be able to kill him himself.

the jury is still out on Richard... my guess (and hope) is that he's alive.

where's claire? rose and bernard? vincent? and is Tom Friendly ever gonna show up in sideways time??? 3 days and we shall see...

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 20, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

meant to include UniqueID in my last post too..

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 20, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

meant to include UniqueID in my last post too..

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 20, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

my first double post (sorry about that!). feels like a right of passage. :)

Posted by: Jere1570 | May 20, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Let's face it, the producers, writers, and actors of Lost are going on a long break, will listen to the comments of pi$$ed fans who want answers, and cash in on a movie that still won't resolve the loose ends.

We're all suckers - the joke is on us.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | May 20, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Jack has a hero complex. He will not be fulfilled unless he has a higher calling. That is why he was so unhappy after getting off the island. A "Shepherd" is a guardian. He will be a martyr and Sawyer and Kate will stay together and take over.

Posted by: JS12 | May 20, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Since Sideways world is a reflection of the OT, LA X Ana Lucia is the opposite of her OT character. Jack will heal Locke in LA X and kill him (MIB) in OT (or the opposite).

However, Kate appears very similar in both worlds. No real development of her situation in LA X. Desmond is now acting very similar in both worlds as well.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 20, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

@PQSully: "We keep hearing about all these "rules" but they all seem to be getting broken. I think there never WERE rules; people just believed there were and chose to obey them"

-- agree. This was given away during the first backgammon game. Little MIB said to his brother that he was making up the rules and someday it would be Jacob's turn to make them up.

@KevinAF: I'm not sure why people think Ana Lucia was such a sterling person in the island reality? She went rogue cop and murdered the perp who attacked her rather than work through the criminal justice system of which she was a sworn officer. She joined up with the Others pronto after the crash. I'm not seeing her LA X persona as all that different from the old Ana Lucia, about whom we actually knew very little.

Posted by: PortlandMaine | May 20, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

So it ends up as a remake of "Willy Wonka" with Jacob playing Willy and Jack playing Charlie. A bit of a disappointment for me.

Posted by: bowiemd1 | May 20, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

There better be some ancient gods in the finale or I'm going to be sooooooo upset! Still hoping smokey is Osiris.

Posted by: Fate1 | May 20, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Anyone read today's WaPo article on Lost by Hank Stuever? Talk about looking for stuff that ain't there... Truly inane.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 20, 2010 10:14 PM | Report abuse

I did go to the Adams Morgan party hosted by Jen and Liz. Small-talked with Jen for a minute or so. I swear she didn't look a day over 22.

If any of you were there, I'm sorry I missed meeting you. But I did meet the smoke monster and her husband, Jack Shephard.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 20, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

DANG, MeriJ, Louie and I were there, too! I actaully said to him "I wonder if any of the chatters are here, I'd love to meet MeriJ." Were you in costume? We weren't, but Avante GArde SMokey gave us each a tombstone off her costume (RIP Shannon, RIP Boone). Jen is SO tiny, you could put her in your pocket, and Liz is very very very pregnant. Both were much fun to talk to. Did you participate in the video thingie?

Posted by: PQSully | May 21, 2010 7:22 AM | Report abuse

Wasn't Vincent setting up shop w/ Rose and Bernard when we saw them last? And, IIRC, Rose and Bernard are "retired" and thus (IMO) no longer participating in the overall story.

Posted by: SamFelis | May 21, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I'm sad I missed the Happy Hour. Sounds like fun!

I like this idea being tossed around about perhaps the "rules" being just vague concepts made up on the spot.

Posted by: smynola06 | May 21, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

There are pictures from last night's party at http://lostblog.com/

PQ, are you guys in one of them? There's one of me two frames to the left of the menu of drink specials. (The woman who came as Smokie #1 was very pleased to say she'd had Sex On The Beach With Sawyer.)

I look and dress enough like Ben Linus that people assumed I'd come in costume. Very funny. So I pushed my hair up to better simulate the look. But in this photo, you can't really see it.

So bummed that I missed you guys!

Posted by: MeriJ | May 21, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I said: "I don't remember any rule suggesting that MIB could not kill Jacob."

Whoa. That was a typo. I meant Richard. No rule that MIB couldn't kill Richard.
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And, no, I didn't do the video thing at the Happy Hour. Too shy. So we'll get to "meet" PQ and Louie Sully via video soon? Awesome.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 21, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

OMG MeriJ, we saw you and said "Did that guy come as Ben or was he just naturally Ben-like?" Was too worried about being thought rude to go up and ask. DANG! (Also, based on your nomme du chat, I thought you were a girl!) is lostblog.com your blog?

I took one of the drink specials signs home with me as a souvineer. And Louie convinced me at the end to participate in the video thing with him. I am horrified that we may end up on the Post.

Posted by: PQSully | May 21, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Meri is short for Meriwether, which in my family is a boy's name. Whereas, PQ, of course, is a girl's name in any family...

No, no blog. Never even been there until this morning. The guy in the frame to the right of me (with Jen) is the blog owner, I believe. He grabbed me as I went to pay for my drinks. "Ben Linus, right?!" After he took the shot, I realized I should have gone bug-eyed, since mine are small & beady and Ben's are large & round.

But how could anyone be insulted to be mistaken for Ben Linus?! He is practically a GOD. A dark god of nerdliness, but a GOD nonetheless.

Regarding Jen and Liz: Have any of you watched them in WaPo videos? Even Jen -- who is extremely natural to talk with in person -- comes off oddly stiff and awkward. They really need someone to help them loosen up prior to filming those puppies. Jen is definitely someone you wouldn't mind being stranded with on a desert island. I don’t know why it doesn’t come across on their videos.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 21, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"He grabbed me as I went to pay for my drinks. "Ben Linus, right?!" After he took the shot, I realized I should have gone bug-eyed, since mine are small & beady and Ben's are large & round."

Ha ha! We actually commented, "He's very Ben-like, but he needs his eyes to bug out. Also maybe carry a large ham."

Posted by: PQSully | May 21, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Just saw the Lost finale video Liz and Jen put up. They're not so stiff in this one. Maybe I just saw "off day" vids in the past.

As for bug-eyed, if only I'd borrowed someone's thyroid medicine, I could have gone Barbara Bush on everyone's ass and then I COULD HAVE BEEN A CONTENDER.

Posted by: MeriJ | May 21, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Newly annoited Jack now has the answers and he will be doing a lot of talking. In the end jack will tell us most of the answers and from those answers we can fill in the remaining blanks. Jacob made the mistake of killing his brother, who killed fake mom, which was deserving as she killed their real mom, kidnapped Jacob and his brother, and enslaved them as candidates to protect the island. Fake mom believed it was their destiny to come to the island. Fake mom believed in predestination and the end justified the means in reaching those goals; that is why she killed their real mother and why Jacob's brother was not the candidate. Fake mom believed someone or something decided your fate and its a logical assumption prior candidates chosen to serve as Island protector did so to. That is why Jacob allowed the candidates to freely choose who would become his replacement. Jacob chose fate over his brother and he regrets that. It is also why he called his group of candidates flawed, because all the candidates were forced into lives they inevitably rejected outside the island. Jacob picked candidates that were like his brother.

In the end, I think Jack will correct what Jacob could not correct. I am not sure how the producers will do that. I think MIB isn't entirely Jacob's brother, ala Darth Vader and Anakin skywalker,or not his brother at all and MIB is someone else; and perhaps one way is for the island to time travel the inhabits back to when Jacob threw his brother into the light and Jack will stop Jacob, therefore, no MIB. Now that Jack knows where the light source is, can MIB be immersed in it again and reverse the process?
One last thing Jacob said a little bit of the light is in all of us, so blowing up the island (or both islands) doesn't destroy the light, whether that light is good or bad. So far, if your thrown into the light, bad things happen to you.

One last thing, the sideways world you learn about another life when your on the island, but inhabitats of the island did not have flashes of a world where they never crashed onto the island. Something to digest.

Posted by: 19yankees78 | May 22, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Obviously it ends like the series began. Oceanic flight 815 has some turbulence, fade to black or white. Was it sideways or Original or a new reality? We'll be debating that for awhile.

I hate Jacob. His character has made no sense, even as a fallible human being.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 22, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Well, my long post was held up. Don't know if it will ever be posted. Great hangin with you all over the past several years. And Fate, based on your last comment about being upset if there are no Egyptian gods behind this show, I suspect maybe you are indeed BevJims : - )

Posted by: dojemc | May 22, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe today is the day. I've been getting pretty emotional about it. I loved the characters. So sad.

Posted by: armous | May 23, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Eloise is MIB in LA X. They have to kill her at the concert, together. Jack will fail to kill MIB alone in original. So they have a second chance in LA X to kill him/her.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 23, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Overall great writing, directing and acting over the years. Some small bits were rough, but overall it was enjoyable. Hope they end with a bang.

Posted by: KevinAF | May 23, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

the ultimate LOST finale parody, http://tinyurl.com/2evzgmy

Posted by: ncljohnson | May 24, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

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