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Posted at 9:00 AM ET, 06/28/2010

Based on his BET Awards turn, is it time to forgive Chris Brown?

By Jen Chaney

As noted in this morning's mix, Chris Brown paid moving tribute to Michael Jackson during last night's BET Awards while simultaneously making his most convincing attempt yet at a comeback.

After impressively channeling Jackson with a series of Brown's well-known, MJ-inspired dance moves -- including a fluid moonwalk and a few requisite crotch grabs -- Brown capped off his performance by breaking down while attempting to sing the emotionally loaded "Man in the Mirror." (Watch the performance in the video below if you missed it on live TV.)

Were his tears brought on by lingering sadness over the loss of Jackson, one of his idols? A public acknowledgment that -- a year after pleading guilty to felony assault for hitting ex-girlfriend Rihanna -- he too has looked at the man in the mirror and asked him to change his ways? Or a bit of well-timed and well-played acting designed to finally win back the good graces of the pop-music-purchasing public?

Brown's colleagues -- from Taraji P. Henson to Queen Latifah to Trey Songz -- had nothing but praise for him afterwards. There's no denying the guy has immense talent and that his dancing was worthy of plaudits. The question, though, is whether he now deserves to officially be forgiven after his abusive treatment of Rihanna.

Based on this poll over at the L.A. Times's Gold Derby blog, the public has mixed emotions over that issue. A portion of voters in this hardly scientific poll thought Brown exhibited at least some overacting last night, which suggests some may still not be so willing to accept Brown's mea culpas.

Clearly what Brown did was wrong. He's admitted it and been punished by a court for it. At what point does he deserve the chance to move on? Honestly, I am not sure, but perhaps you readers can weigh in via another poll that's about as scientific as that one over at the LAT.

By Jen Chaney  | June 28, 2010; 9:00 AM ET
Categories:  Celebrities  | Tags:  Chris Brown  
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Comments

How stupid do you think I am?

Posted by: jezebel3 | June 28, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

We have to forgive. It's not for us to stand in judgement of what Chris did to Rihanna. I feel the tears Chris Brown shed last night, trying to sing the Man in the Mirror, was a direct reflection on his life and maybe even the Rihanna incident. I believe he feels really bad about what happened and becoming the man he didn't want to be. He's young, and he will go through a "breakthrough" moment at some point in his life. I think last night, that song made him take a look at himself.

Posted by: ksimms1 | June 28, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

"Uncontrollable sobs" = "See, I'm sensitive, pls. buy my records."

PLEASE, this is so fake. Maybe if he had done this "performance" a year ago, it would be more believable...

Posted by: nojunk4me | June 28, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Why are forgiving Chris Brown and buying/enjoying his music mutually exclusive? Can we not enjoy the art while still holding the artist responsible for his actions? Trust the art, not the artist?

Posted by: FormerDCer | June 28, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

The world is a better place with the pedophile gone. As far as Brown goes, who cares? The guy used his significant other as a punching bag.

Posted by: almelbe | June 28, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

The world is a better place with the pedophile gone. As far as Brown goes, who cares? The guy used his significant other as a punching bag.

Posted by: almelbe | June 28, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Actually, it IS for us to stand in judgment of what Chris Brown did, in so far as much as he is a public entertainer and our support in the form of $$$ validates approval of him and his persona. Maybe he deserves a second chance as a private person, but that doesn't mean that he deserves a second chance as a public figure. Just some food for thought.

Posted by: MStreet1 | June 28, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

You know it's already that he's going to have to deal with that for the rest of his career. Chris's performance was awesome and I think everyone breaks down with the song Man in the Mirror. It's just one of those songs that just make you reflect at that moment your whole being. Act or not an act, I believe he's made some atonement for his actions. Lesson learned, do not hit a women ever and do not ever get back with Rhianna. Pls forgive me for offending but we all know Rhi's personal behavior. Still it doesn't take away what he was responsible for. Rhi's next man better look out the for spiked high heel. Pls heed this.

Posted by: LizPurcellDavis | June 28, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Fake tears most likely unless he saw his ancestors on toyotarunaway org.

Posted by: Moley2 | June 28, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Oooh, the poll made me sick. The sanctimony behind " physically abusive toward a woman which is unforgivable" , what?!?!?

What type of world do you all live in? Women give as much as they take, so spare me the sanctimony. Watch any reality series, women are every bit as abusive toward men. Chris Brown got into a lover's quarrel, that's all it was.
Whether or not you want to admit to this 1.this country loves to put famous people into morality plays and 2.whites have a zeal for prosecuting blacks, the more famous the better, that's ALSO in play here.
Chris Brown is barely into his twenties, yet he supposedly committed an "unforgiveable offense". Really, did he murder two women like the white kid down in South America?
You know, no one likes to hear it when blacks say racism, but there's no way in the world that Chris Brown should be punished forever for a dumb argument that was no one's business other than those involved. I noticed "special episodes about domestic abuse on Tyra, Oprah,etc. as though Brown & Rihanna were the only couple to ever have a nasty spat.
Good grief, how long should the punishment last for a famous black male, there's people who think that Mike Vick should continue to be punished, that Terrell Owens is rightfully being punished for his personality by not being signed, that Vince Young ought to be punished for a scrape in a bar and so on.
The question should be "when does the country turn the punish switch to off when a famous black male is in trouble.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

And another thing, didn't this country-read white folks quickly forgive the Rep. Wilson when he did the "unforgivable" and screamed out "you lie" to President Obama?

Well, what about the quick forgiveness given to the white men who had their assault weapons along with an assasin's slogan "time to replenish the tree" displayed when the President's motorcade went past last year? Talk about unforgivable.

This country had no problem forgiving then-Atlanta Braves manager Bobby Cox for slugging his wife, giving her a nasty black eye.
Amazing how it's always a "punishment to death, or at least until we ruin your career" for a black man in trouble.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

I think that asking random members of the Great Unwashed on our opinions about his life is equal to when reporters ask movie stars their thoughts on the oil spill in the gulf...Not only are those thoughts unimportant, they're pointless too. I know we live in the 21st century, where everybody who has a computer thinks they have a valid opinion, (or even one people actually WANT to hear) but that's simply not the case.

I know we, as the simple nobodies we are, revel in the minutiae of the lives of celebrities (hence celebritology) but come on! Shouldn't you be investigating if Gary Coleman's wife killed him? Or if Al Gore really raped a masseuse?

My point being, even in the shallow, superficial world of celebrities, there are more important/in-depth things you could bring to light. Just because the world of celebrities is superficial doesn't mean you have to be, as journalists.

Posted by: joshuahutcheson | June 28, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

We are not his God, so it doesn't matter wether we forgive him or not. You shuold be Judging yourself only, leave the jugding of others to the only one that can judge - GOD!!. Our judgement of him is non-existent, irrelevant, and just down right stupid to keep talking about when we don't have the power to judge that man. Get a grip people.

Posted by: love2much SE | June 28, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Amazing! Absolutely amazing! I mean, what intelligent person really cares about this nonsense? Get a life! You're all disgusting!

Posted by: georges2 | June 28, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Ooh, looks like Jen might have her first BKD. But one question, can we start saying pony again while Liz is gone?

Posted by: DorkusMaximus1 | June 28, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

ArmchairGM, I am African American, and I don't even know where to begin addressing your ridiculous post. Prosecuting a person who hits his or her significant other is RACISM???

Members of our community need to step up and say unequivocally that certain behavior is beyond the pale, and that includes dogfighting and domestic abuse.

I've had countless disagreements with former boyfriends and my husband, and none of them ever came to blows, or, for that matter, ugly words. It's called civilized behavior. No man has ever hit me, and no man would ever get a chance to do it twice. I wouldn't go so far as to call such conduct unforgivable, but I haven't seen any evidence that Brown has done the hard work necessary to change, and I am not convinced that his remorse is genuine.

Frankly, I am quite worried about your significant other, as well as any children you might have, considering the example you are setting.

Posted by: carlaclaws | June 28, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

@ ArmchairGM, it's because they luv to hack at our famous. Always quick to jump on them and show how they've messed up. Then over-analyze the situation to maybe come up with an overall conclusion of how Black american's really are. Racism and Sexism is so grossly marketed.

Posted by: LizPurcellDavis | June 28, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

@carlaclaws, I don't think ArmchairGM was stating that what he did wasn't unforgivable. I think they were trying to convey that exploitation of incidents that take place are overanalyzed by the media and this country by our white counterparts. Definitely no excuse for Chris Brown's behavior. Just the double standard that blacks are given when judgement is given.

Posted by: LizPurcellDavis | June 28, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

carlaclaws
A few questions

How do you know the story between those two?
How do you know who was the agressor-were you there?
Stop doing what WOMEN do, imprinting your life on Chris Brown's life.
There is a racial element to this,sorry to burst your bubble, when does the prosecuting stop?

Oh and let me tell YOU-you are rare bird, an AA female that doesn't fuss, feud or see arguments as mortal combat because a scary amount of you do!!

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I think he is crying because of all the money he pissed away in endorsements as a result of beating the crap out of Rihanna!!!!! I am absolutely sure he regrets it and didn't really mean to hurt anyone, just ask him????

Posted by: mschettig | June 28, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Dorkus, you're the first Lizard since Jez to weigh in. BKD indeed.

Posted by: reddragon1 | June 28, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"Dorkus, you're the first Lizard since Jez to weigh in. BKD indeed"

Take that back. Skipped right over MStreet. Sorry about that.

Posted by: reddragon1 | June 28, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"...but I haven't seen any evidence that Brown has done the hard work necessary to change, and I am not convinced that his remorse is genuine."

Who in the heck are you? The Remorse Judge?

What hard work would he need to do to convince you, that he was "genuinely remorseful", O' HOLY ONE?

Why does he have to jump through all these hoops, there were two in that car that night?
So spare me the "I can't believe you wrote that" bull.... Women aren't doe-eyed innocents where quarrels,spats, and arguments are concerned.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

So spare me the "I can't believe you wrote that" bull.... Women aren't doe-eyed innocents where quarrels,spats, and arguments are concerned.
==================================
ArmchairGM, my point is that NO ONE has the right to respond violently to that kind of provocation. When someone deliberately tries to rile me up, I disengage.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou, but our society has a standard of behavior, and violence is never acceptable except in self defense or defense of someone who can't fight back. People who can't or won't rein in their behavior SHOULD be prosecuted and/or made to get professional help. I don't want to live in a society that condones violence.

I'm actually not promoting lifelong condemnation or ostracism of Brown, but people who respond with violence usually can't/won't change without some serious anger management therapy. Let's just say I wouldn't fix Brown up with a girlfriend.

Is there racism behind some people's condemnation of Brown? Probably. But you will never get me to agree that someone deserves a break on this sort of behavior because he or she is AA.

Posted by: carlaclaws | June 28, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

so, he hit his wife/gf/whatever and because i find that reprehensible i am a racist?

your logic is flawless. you should see if wilbon needs an assistant. his stance is that if you criticize the nba you are racist. i am sure you two could find common ground...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

When white folks apolgize for slavery, maybe then just kidding we wil lets white folks decide who will be featured in African American homes.

Speaking of remorse did the white folks forgive Clive Davis who gave alcohol to both Chris and Rihanna that night in question.

Did white folks forgive Elvis for baggin a 14 year girl?

Stop letting white folk decide who is morally right these are the same folks that say gay marrigage is morally correct and guns dont kill.

Posted by: B4DarkDC | June 28, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

My goodness, folks. How judgmental we can be. Sure, that's the whole premise of the article, but whatever is left of that young man's career is on him to either regain control of or damage it even further. Let him be. I must admit that when I saw reviews of his soon-to-be-released film "Takers," I booed (under my breath) at the screen and refused to see it because of CB. Then I felt bad because only perfect folks like Jesus have the right to reserve judgment on others. I recognized my self-righteousness and checked it. At what point can we just let stuff go and wish people well? By all accounts, Rihanna has moved on with her life, yet here some of you are, throwing stones at CB a year and some change later. I've never been a CB fan, but if I can't say anything nice, I certainly won't say anything ugly or dismissive. Just the civility in me, I guess.

Posted by: Sudanese | June 28, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I thought the crying was over the top...sure we get caught up in emotions, but sing the damn song already!

We all make mistakes and he made a bad one.

Posted by: rickyroge | June 28, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I'll forgive him when Elmo forgives him.

Posted by: DorkusMaximus1 | June 28, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

An abuser honoring a pedophile- what a joke! Brown is a criminal of the worst type. There is no reason to beat up your girlfriend/wife/spouse-ever, ever,ever!! Please, WAPo, the only thing I want to know about is when Brown has to serve time for some future abuse/offense that he is bound to committ!As for MJ, Jacko=Sicko!

Posted by: lsf07 | June 28, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

carlaclaws
No man has ever hit me, and no man would ever get a chance to do it twice.

clapclapclap

(And I'm pretty sure carlaclaws is an occasional Lizard Island habitué, cuz I recognized her handle right away).

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | June 28, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

michael jackson was not a pedophile and chris brown tribute on the bet awards came from the heart and i believe it was no act,he truely had a moment. people need to stop hatin on him, he is not the first guy to hit a female and he for sure wont be the last. chris was punished for wat he idid, its time to let it go and let him have his singin career back. and like chis said[he wont make the mistake wagain].he owned up to wat he did and took responsibility for it so have some faith, gave him a break cuz people do change!

Posted by: de_anna49 | June 28, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Let's just keep it real, if he was Charlie Sheen or had blue eyes and blonde hair this wouldn't even be discussed. When will you all get a life, hell you all persecuted MJ and why is it that when blacks do the same thing that you all whites have been doing since the beginning of time it's such an issue? Okay he smacked the hell out of a woman, so has Charlie Sheen, Marshall Matters. He has apologized, get over it!!!

Posted by: russellpenmaniii | June 28, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

almelbe I guess you walk on water and was actually there to see what you are so quick to point as fact huh?

Truly amazing!!!

Posted by: russellpenmaniii | June 28, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

MStreet, I respectfully disagree with your assessment. We are not to judge. The court system is. CB broke the law when he assaulted Rihanna, and his actions were morally reprehensible. So, we are all on the same page there. However, he’s already been judged in a court of law and was handed down punishment for his actions. That’s what courts of law are for, and for the public to pass its own judgment on top of the courts isn’t warranted. If you or anyone ever supported CB by buying his music or a concert ticket, then you can certainly exercise your fiscal freedom by electing not to spend your money that way if you disagree with his actions. That’s sort of like punishment, if you will, because he feels it in his pocket.

Also, how can you forgive the private person who is CB and not the entertainer who is also CB? We’re talking about one person here, and there should be no degrees or levels of forgiveness. That’s like saying former president Clinton should be allowed to resume his private life after the Lewinsky scandal and subsequent impeachment, but no, he can’t go on to head a philanthropic foundation, or be an ambassador for peace, or do speaking engagements, or negotiate the release of American citizens from North Korea, or raise money for Haiti earthquake relief, all in his public life. I guess Michael Vick can’t play pro football anymore although he paid his debt to society for illegal dog fighting, or Michael Jackson had no right to continue his musical career after being acquitted in a court of law of molestation charges. My point is that people often do bad, reckless, awful things in their personal lives, and go on to lead very productive lives and have positive effects on others.

That’s what true forgiveness is about, MStreet. You forgive the whole person and wish him well. You do not begrudgingly forgive a person and still harbor judgment in your heart. Just more food for thought.

Posted by: Sudanese | June 28, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"But you will never get me to agree that someone deserves a break on this sort of behavior"

Define "a break" where Chris Brown is concerned? Here's a young man, who at the age of 19-NINETEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! got into a nasty argument with his girlfriend and was been banned from performing in Britain last week because of that argument.He's been turned, at the age of 19, into the poster boy for 'domestic abuse'.
Wait, it gets better, the ex-girlfriend in question Rihanna, has a song out called Rude Boy, which has choruses to the effect of "rude boy, c'mon beat it up..." mocking domestic abuse, yeah she's all TRAUMATIZED about the situation.
Clue me in when he gets a break.

You see my point?!? He has been given many things but a break? Please.
---------------
...but our society has a standard of behavior, and violence is never acceptable except in self defense or defense of someone who can't fight back.
---------------
You obviously don't date women and you're obviously an American female. Funny, how I have to hear the "She's a Pink Warrior" song about breast cancer because you all are so "tough, strong and all that" But, when it comes to the Chris Brown issue-here comes Victimhood "...someone who can't fight back..." Again, spare me the bull-do you know how many men there are with fake domestic abuse charges on their criminal records because of the manipulation & cunning of females-TONS!

That's why I love Judge Judy, she refuses to let you all play the game of "victims... when we want to be".

What really does it for me, is to hear so many American women, who when you ask them what they are looking for in men, chirp, "I like bad boys", "I want a man with an edge", and so on. So you chase those types of dudes and when you get em'-SUPRISE!!!-he's a creep. Then you all go, MEN!! Waaaiittt a minute-you chose that joker so don't get mad at MEN!
------------
...my point is that NO ONE has the right to respond violently to that kind of provocation. When someone deliberately tries to rile me up, I disengage.
------------

Yeah,yeah, No one should put their hands on no one else,blah, blah, blah. Tell WOMEN that, because women are serial violators of "no one has the right..."
But, again, you don't date American women, I do.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Well Dorkus, I only have one thing to say....PONYPONYPONYPONYPONY!!!

That counts as one thing right?

Now back to your regularly scheduled arguing about racial inequities & Chris Brown & whatever else was being discussed in this comments section.

Posted by: wadejg | June 28, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with black-white. This has to do with one high profile entertainer beating another high profile entertainer. Bobby Cox beating his anonymous wife (while horrible) isn't even the same planet of public interest. Warren Moon was arrested for domestic abuse and we got over that pretty quick. If his wife had been Halle Berry (a victim of abuse herself) we might not have. If Jennifer Lopez had been abused by Ben Affleck we would still be reading about it.

Posted by: ouvan59 | June 28, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Hitting woman is wrong, but women hitting men is wrong too. There are far too many high and mighty types out here that speak in regards to oh he did this and he did that, half of these hypocrits commit crimes everyday, for you people that know so much and want to speak about CB, and MJ do some research, look at how oral sex is a crime in VA and I also believe that the only sexual position that isn't breaking the law in MD is missionary. I bet you all are guilty of those offenses! So before you all are so quick to pass judgement may I suggest you take 6 months to mind your business and take another 6 months leaving DB's and MJ's alone.

Posted by: russellpenmaniii | June 28, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Are you kidding? At a time in this country, with the recession/depression, domestic violence and other such programs are facing budget cuts, while at the same time there are increasing demands for their services, WTH are you talking about? Why such a question? If he had beaten the daughter of BET head Debra Lee, his behind would never been allowed to attend the event, much less perform. Violence against women in this society is not only encouraged, but it is also rewarded, as evidenced by Chris Brown at the BET event. So sad indeed! :( :(

Posted by: 424me | June 28, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"look at how oral sex is a crime in VA and I also believe that the only sexual position that isn't breaking the law in MD is missionary. I bet you all are guilty of those offenses!"

Posted by: russellpenmaniii | June 28, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Adultery is a crime in NY!!!

Posted by: jezebel3 | June 28, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

@russellpenmaniii - are you serious? comparing domestic abuse to outdated sexual laws? that is your argument? pretty lame...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Wow, you call Jacko a pedo, but the Pope and the whole gampit are not? Last I checked, the Jacko's accuser grew up and came clean on the extortion issue. Jackson never touched him. It's sad that he was already tried and found guilty by the media. Yeah some behavior issues w children, questionable but not pedo. You holier than thou folks need to cut it out. Oh and as far as----- "No man has ever hit me, and no man would ever get a chance to do it twice."--- I'm sure Brown felt the same way after he was attacked with the spiked high heel from Rhianna. Self defense works both ways. But I do agree that Brown lost it. No excuses....right? I have 2 son's, they both wouldn't dare raise their hands to a female. But I would say the same to their females, you watch ur behavior and your hands. Don't start SH$%, then there won't be no SH$%!!

Posted by: LizPurcellDavis | June 28, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Hitting a woman is wrong unless you are a cop in Seattle punching a woman in a face for jaywalking!

Posted by: ronnietaylor2 | June 28, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

@LizPurcellDavis - your argument is faulty. no one is saying the church is not full of predatory abusers like jackson. most people (save complete church apologists) realize the church is rife with sexual abuse as well as complicit in covering up such behavior. but that is really neither here nor there and has nothing to do with chris brown abusing his wife or girlfriend.

i find it sadly amusing that people are trying to either excuse or justify what brown was convicted of. pathetic, really...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Im sorry but this has nothing to do with black-white...

Oh, but it does. "We" did not get over Warren Moon quickly, every time Moon played in subsequent games that I saw, his private life was mentioned.
-Funny how you consider B.Cox's story to not be on the same planet of interest, As a black man,I don't consider CB and Rihanna's story to be "interesting" at all, yet it's now a 2 year newsstory.

Sooo tired of folks trying to downplay the racial aspect of news coverage.
This is the United States of America,
Race matters!!
----------
If Jennifer Lopez had been abused by Ben Affleck we would still be reading about it.

I disagree. I love how you use loaded words& phrases "beating another..." "...abused by" . This wasn't the movie "The Burning Bed" nor was it "Sleeping with the Enemy", it was an hot argument in a car that got out of hand.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

@ArmchairGM - i watch(ed) a lot of football and remember watching moon on the oilers. i had never heard of his domestic abuse issues until now. so i am pretty skeptical of your take. this does not seem to be a racial issue. it seems to be a domestic abuse one...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Lsf07, how dismissive and ugly your comments are. God forbid you ever make a mistake and are compelled to ask for someone’s forgiveness. It’s easy to sit back and dole out judgment until you find yourself the one being judged, and unfairly at that. CB did a bad thing, we all get that, and he was rightly punished. At the same time, it’s not right to hold a grudge against someone for perpetuity! Get off your high horse already. When you become perfect and never do a wrong thing, ever, then you can sit back and judge others. And I guess the whole MJ acquittal thing in 2005 passed you by. The man was acquitted, for goodness sake, and here folks are still throwing stones a year after the man’s passing. While acquittal doesn’t always mean the defendant is not guilty, it does mean that the courts were satisfied that MJ had a fair trial by a jury of his peers. They’ve moved on. Let it go. We all have to give an account of what we do in life, so save your tyranny. MJ’s life was far more than those charges or his eccentricities. He was a human being who was loved and deserving of love. How would you feel if someone you loved was so arbitrarily dismissed in such a nasty way? What if your loved one made some mistakes or exercised poor judgment, and had the sum of all his accomplishments and every good thing he ever did forgotten? Or dismissed by the thoughtless comments of someone who didn’t even know him? This country is getting more uncivilized and crass each day. God help us if we have to rely on the compassion and understanding of perfect strangers if people can’t let a man rest in peace a year after his death.

Posted by: Sudanese | June 28, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Why are so many people trying to derail this discussion with "b-b-but women hit men too!"? Uh, yeah, women do hit men, but IF (big if) CB was hit by a woman, he wasn't hit nearly as hard as he hit Rihanna. It's not even relevant to the discussion to bring up woman-on-man abuse. It's just trying to distract from the real questions, which are related to the specific incident of Chris Brown beating up Rihanna.

Anyway, the man's got a movie coming out, so he needs all the good publicity he can get. Crying during the MJ tribute probably did him a world of good. And speaking of Rihanna, she brought a lot to one of Eminem's new songs, "Love the Way You Lie," which is about domestic abuse.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 28, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Violence against women in this society is not only encouraged, but it is also rewarded, as evidenced by Chris Brown at the BET event.
--------------
Oh brother, play me your violin why don't you. Give me, if you care to, examples of your statement. American women couldn't be more protected against violence from their mates. But, as I mentioned earlier-many of you seek out bad boys and other assorted knuckleheads be careful of what you wish for. !
It's like how states like Maryland talk about drunk driving while allowing Drive-thru liquor stores to operate.

Only American women seek out bad men and then lament the "violence" against women-hey, you all choose em'!

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Let it go. He shouldn't have done what he did, but it was one time and Rhianna was not blameless. Her career has skyrocketed, as America (well, certain segments) has adopted her as the abuse victim du jour (and we love us some abuse victims!) while Chris Brown has become a non-person, criticized for every move short of donning sackcloth and ashes. Michael Richards still has a career, why not Chris Brown?

Frankly the real lesson to take from all this is to keep away from drama queens and immature wanna-be divas like Rhianna who might provoke you into some nonsense you'll pay for the rest of your life. Becuase they have a "get out of jail free" card while black men have a "make one wrong move and find yourself in jail" card.

Posted by: gbooksdc | June 28, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Beating and /or raping anyone male or female,black,white green or red - is wrong and it's wrong to cover it up with crockodile tears and say you are sorry- Abusers like CB are sickos, MJ was a sicko. the pedophile priests and cover it up Hitler youth pope are sickos.Like it or not celebs are looked upon by some as role models. Sickos should not be role models.

Posted by: lsf07 | June 28, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

You know, maybe it is a black/white issue. We've had plenty of white batterers who haven't suffered a second of what Chris Brown has: Charlie Sheen, Johnny Carson, Sean Connery, etc.

Not that Brown deserves a full pass like they got, but still.

Posted by: sarahabc | June 28, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

sarahbc, there are both racist and classist double-standards when it comes to violence against women. But that just means we should hold abusive rich white men (Sheen, Roethlisberger, etc.) to the same harsh standards that we are willing to hold minorities and middle- or working-class white men, not that every guy should get a free pass.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 28, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

LizPurcellDavis, I agree with you about women being responsible for their own behavior. No, it’s never okay for a man to hit a woman. Yet we also must recognize that just as we expect men to keep their hands (and feet and belts, etc.) to themselves, the same goes for women. It’s a double standard, really, and grossly unfair. Women habitually get a pass when it comes to hitting men because we’re supposed to be the weaker sex. If a man is expected to walk away before he gets angry enough to hit a woman, then a woman should do the same. Your man cheated on you? Walk away. Stole your money? Have him arrested. Called you a beyotch? Tell him to go to hell and delete his number from your phone. There are too many good men out there to be getting stroke-level mad over one man who won’t act right.

I’ve driven behind a man trying to drive a car while being whaled on by a woman in the passenger seat. I mean, she was letting dude have it. He finally pulled over before he had an accident, got out of the car, and tried to get away from her. She ran after him, throwing shoes, books. etc. Dude was standing under a tree getting beaten by his woman. I called the police to report her and get him some help. People were just standing around either gawking or laughing. Let that have been him kicking her tail and it would’ve been a call to arms to protect the weak woman. Now, who knows what happened to compel her to strike out at him? The point is that he didn’t lay a finger on her, and I believe he would’ve been well within his rights to at least shove the hell out of her to get her away from him. He was bloody, and just stood there taking a first class beating.

Women have got to hold themselves to the same standard to which they hold men. If we won’t tolerate abuse from a man, a man shouldn’t tolerate abuse from a woman. Just because we’re women doesn’t give us license to strike first and say, “Now what? I dare you to hit me.” That’s like only blaming men (who already had kids they didn’t support) who get women pregnant and don’t take care of their kid. The women are also to blame for using poor judgment. Why make a conscious decision to have a baby with a man who’s proven to you that he’s a deadbeat who doesn’t take care of his kids?

Posted by: Sudanese | June 28, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

funkey

I know what I heard and everytime I saw Moon on TV, post- fight with Felicia,his wife, it was mentioned, if only in a backhanded way ie. "Moon looks at the bench to get the next play...man, I tell ya' Moon has come a long way from the situation with his wife..."

It happens that way for many famous black males. So if you didn't experience it,consider yourself lucky.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

It's not up to any of us to forgive him...that's for his victim. As for the moves - many MJ impersonators have done much better. Personally, I think CB is pathetic.

Posted by: CalmTruth | June 28, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Michael Jackson was one of the kindest people to ever walk the earth. He was tortured to death by extorters and people that love to hate for the sake of hating. To the haters, get a life and learn to read. The truth about Michael’s innocence is out there for those actually interested in the TRUTH rather than hate.

As for Chris Brown, I think breakdown was real. He was paying tribute to his idol while in the midst the words to his idol's song penetrated his heart - this was Michael gift. Michael’s music, his lyrics pierce the heart and inspire love, giving, hope, and change for those willing to listen. It must have been very powerful for him to have been asked by the Jackson’s to pay tribute to his idol and sing a song that he needed to heed. I think his healing has begun; perhaps our forgiveness should as well. Forgiving does not mean giving him a pass on his bad behavior, it means allowing the sinner the chance to redeem himself. For those that cannot forgive, perhaps YOU need to Look at the Man in the Mirror and make that change – Today.

Posted by: Pina1 | June 28, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Why are so many people trying to derail this discussion with "b-b-but women hit men too!"? Uh, yeah, women do hit men, but IF (big if) CB was hit by a woman, he wasn't hit nearly as hard as he hit Rihanna. It's not even relevant to the discussion to bring up woman-on-man abuse
------------------
Well, since you want to bring that angle up that he wasn't hit nearly as hard, I'll point out that oftentimes you WOMEN aren't hit that hard either you just bruise easier and are more willing to show the police whatever body part is bruised as proof that you were hit.
Let me give a true life example, I had a red-bone girlfriend, who when she got emotional or angry would take my car keys. Now, when we were breaking up, she tried the same thing. This time, I couldn't allow her to do that, after all, this is the 'break-up argument'. So as we jostled for my keys, that were in her purse, she got bruises on her, namely her wrists as we wrangled for the keys. When the police showed up I went to jail, she didn't.

So I have 1st hand experience of going to jail for trying to get my car keys. That's why I stick-up for C.Brown, I know men can go to jail for little or nothing fooling with a female. Now, just like CB, I have been scarlet-lettered with the DA, for domestic abuse and I'm pissed at that.

Wait, it gets better-the female in question almost suffocated me by kneeling on my chest until I could neither breathe nor get her off of me. She said she was playing.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

What a blubbering embarrassment to men everywhere. True contrition is shown with actions, not obviously rehearsed words or tears. Has she forgiven him yet? That's why he's writhing on the floor like a lunatic. He needs a sedative now.

Posted by: Prospero1116 | June 28, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, that was just one female. Another rolled me over the hood of her Hyundai one morning. Another one was quite fond of throwing phones, shoes and tennis balls. Another one bit the living mess out my finger.

Hoodrats you say, Gangsta Girls? you ask.

Nope, all were college-educated attractive AA females.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

ArmchairGM - like i said, i never heard them do that to moon - i never even know he had a domestic issue in his past until the comments section here. and i do not buy the racial angle on this. people who want to see this as a racial thing will. but only because they want to - not with any real evidence.

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Are you kidding me? Stevie Wonder could see the tears were genuine, no disrespect meant to you Stevie. Last night Chris Brown gave the performance of a lifetime and left everything he gave on that stage. He was so overcome with emotion he couldn't even get it together to sing. That was from the heart man. That was him finally admitting his transgressions and the words of the song were in direct parallel of his life. Not to mention MJ was his idol and this was the first real chance he had to honor him since his passing 1 year ago. The whole thing was obviously overwhelming to him. For the last year he has been giving these speeches which were obviously written for him meanwhile crying whoa is me. But when the man finally shows some real emotion and remorse the haters are still not happy. Newsflash people none of you are perfect he doesn't have to answer to any of you. Chris you did your thing last night baby boy.

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

he doesn't have to answer to me. but i am allowed to be critical of his behavior and even question his sincerity. i do not agree with the logic that since I am not perfect i cannot condemn some one committing domestic abuse...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

"Well, since you want to bring that angle up that he wasn't hit nearly as hard"
============

No, ArmchairGM, I said IF he was hit, which he wasn't. Nice attempt at derailing even more, but I don't care about your obvious personal bitterness about women, your drama has nothing to do with the fact that a grown man (yes, a 19 year old is grown enough to know better) hit someone not in self defense.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 28, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

enewton,

If you believe that act then I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya. No, he doesn't have to answer to me, just make his act convincing for pete's sake. Flopping on the floor like a fish--not good enough. The only one he has to answer to hasn't forgiven him yet so I guess she hasn't bought that act either.

Posted by: Prospero1116 | June 28, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

@funkey no my point was that you and so many other's are so quick to nail the coffin shut in regards to Chris Brown and Michael Jackson, what I wanted to do was bring out Jesus's words of let the first one without sin throw the first stone. It's so easy to condemn other's when most of us break the laws too, who cares if there outdated or not? Breaking the law is breaking the law, if you don't see that then your nothing but a hypocrit!

Posted by: russellpenmaniii | June 28, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

@ funkey Do you realize that by you "condemning" anyone that alone is committing sin in God's eyes. Let he without sin cast the first stone. So I guess that makes you perfect and ok to judge. WRONG. It is not about judging it is about forgiving and moving on. It is up to God to judge Chris Brown or anyone else that does wrong. It is not up to us who am I you or anybody else to judge. By the way sin is sin what part of that don't people understand. Geeze. But Charlie Sheen has domestic issues with every wife he has had, Mel Gibson too, Larry King, etc. I don't see all this uproar about them. Unbelievable.

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Also not that I am lessoning anything, but at the age of 19 he is a kid still! Damn you all are acting like he beat her within an inch of her life, he bytch smacked her and from my understanding is she hit him first? Hey double standards though I get it, it's okay for woman to hit men but when a man hits her back it's domestic violence.....WOW no wonder so many people are checking out of this world.............

Posted by: russellpenmaniii | June 28, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

@russellpenmaniii - "Breaking the law is breaking the law, if you don't see that then your nothing but a hypocrit!" [sic]

So you are saying that if anyone that has broken a law criticizes anyone else for breaking a law then tat person is a hypocrite? so say, i have broken the law by speeding. does that mean i cannot criticizes a murderer or rapist lest i be called a hypocrite by you? that is just a silly argument.

no one is saying he can't redeem himself. america loves a good come back story. but an 'emotional' tribute to an alleged pedophile doesn't quite cut it for me...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Its not up to Rihanna to forgive him what part of that don't you people understand. It is obvious to me a lot of you haven't been to church in a while. Which leads me back to my first statement who are any of you to judge? But since you all are perfect in every way and never done anything wrong in life lol it's easy to sit behind your computer and judge when no one knows anything about you or your life.

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

@enewton - so are courts allowed to judge and condemn people or are they usurping god's duties? don't be absurd. and leave religion out of it - fairy tales have no place here.

and charlie sheen and mel gibson have gotten plenty of attention for their antics. 'Family Guy' did an entire episode on mel gibson's anti-semitism. trying to play the race card on this issue is a bit desperate...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

At 19 he is a kid? At 3 I had my parents telling me not to hit people unless it was in self-defense, so I didn't hit people. Not only is 19 not a kid, but the idea that kids don't know not to hit people is ludicrous. Look, whether we should forgive him or not, what he did is indefensible. Personally, I'm going to see that movie he's got coming out, because it looks good, the same way that I'm going to see Knight and Day even though Tom Cruise is certifiable and says ignorant things about psychology. But denying that Chris Brown beat Rihanna up, or trying to justify it somehow, or acting like you can't judge someone for acting like some kind of fool, doesn't even make sense.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 28, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

@ Prospero1116 keep your Brooklyn Bridge you can use it to jump off of when you realize how being judgemental can come back to bite you.

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

... i do not buy the racial angle on this. people who want to see this as a racial thing will. but only because they want to - not with any real evidence.
---------------
I going to try to break this down for you.

You're not black, therefore you won't see what I do. Mike Vick became the most famous villainous player in the world. As a black man, I'm going to pay attention to that and this is where you're concerned-FILE IT AWAY IN MY RAM MEMORY!! So that when the next black male gets in a jam, my RAM memory accesses all files related and compares them. Redundancies in news coverage are noticed AND noted.

So to a white man such as yourself, stories about a "Chris Brown" may appear random.
But, to a black man such me, the story is checked against my Database (brain) and RAM (memories)and is filed into the folder of When Black Males Get Into Trouble, They Are Overpunished.
See as a white man, you don't have that folder.That's why it's so easy for you to dismiss race-your folders is empty.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

@funkey we aren't talking about the courts we are talking about you sitting behind your computer passing judgement like you are the Pope or somebody when 9 out of 20 times your house isn't clean

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

@ArmchairGM - well, yes, if you are looking for racial slights in everything, i am sure your mind can find them, whether they are really there or not.

so tell me, how was chris brown over punished in this instance by virtue of being black?

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

@enewton - tone down the drama a hair. this guy hit his girlfriend. was convicted by the courts and was punished. yet, according to you, i cannot condemn his actions because i have committed some sort of transgression in the past? grow up, please.

btw - when it comes to domestic abuse, i am without sin. i have never hit my wife or children or acted physically aggressive towards them.

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

ArmchairGM, I don't disagree with what you're saying (that famous black men are held to tougher standards), but I find it discomfiting that you seem so easily inclined to lump all white people and women together much as you accuse them of doing the same to black men.

As for Chris Brown, he's been punished by the courts. I was not a fan before the incident and won't be after. I have no problem if people buy his music or boycott him--it's pretty much between a person and their own feelings about whether they can separate the performer from the person they think he is.

Michael Vick is another matter all together. If he were white the same standard would apply. Torture animals to death with your bare hands = sociopath. Prison doesn't fix that. I'm not saying he needs more punishment, I'm just not inclined to feel "he's done his time, all is well." Which is simply a personal opinion that has no effect on him or his livelihood whatsoever.

Posted by: sorcerers_cat | June 28, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

At 19 he is a kid? dkp01
----------------
No, he's not a baby, but yes, he's a kid. Unless you went through YOUR teenage years never having made a mistake, you should have some perspective.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I watched the performance and I must say that I thought it was genuine. I think that we are not in a position to "forgive" him or "judge" him. There are those that "forgave" R. Kelly for marrying a 15 year old girl and having sex for a minor which is just a reprehensible as the domestic violence incident between Rihanna and Chris Brown. If you don't like Chris Brown because of what he did, don't buy his music.

Posted by: yanni1976 | June 28, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Wow like I said it's obvious to me you are so out of the loop. It is useless to keep talking to you. When your daughter, son or loved one or you for that matter gets into a situation where you are judged in the manner you are judging trust me that will change. Until then have a nice life.

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

To The Washington Post: Please conduct a poll. Forget the Democrats and the Republicans. Please conduct a poll to find out just how unimportant this garbage is. So, Jen and Liz, what you're saying here is that you've dedicated your life to writing this tripe. Do your parents know about this? If they do, weren't they disappointed that you're wasting your life this way?

Posted by: georges2 | June 28, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

ArmchairGM, I will back you up on the racial aspect--CB did get worse treatment in the press than most white celebrities get. Nobody threatened to drop Two & A Half Men over Charlie Sheen being abusive, and his career obviously didn't suffer much even though he *shot* one of his exes. Usually one "sees" racism because it exists.

But yes, I went through my teen years as well as adulthood up to this point without hitting anyone--and you know what, so did the guys I dated in high school and college, even when I know I was being a straight b!7ch to them. They weren't pushovers or whipped, they just knew better.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 28, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

@enewton - basically what i thought - you have no real backing for your position, so you beg off the argument.

i plan on raising my son and daughter so they *don't* assault people - loved ones or others. but keep falling all over yourself to protect this woman beater...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

yanni1976 loved your comment

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

lol ok oh perfect one lol God knows your heart lol

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

yes, keep referring to god. santa clause is real too. lol...

Posted by: funkey | June 28, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Goodbye to all these perfect people on this blog. Would love to have a hidden camera into all of your perfect little lives to get the real scoop on all of you. Sad. lol

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Everyone listen to enewton,

Believe everything you see and hear
Trust anyone
Have no standards of moral criteria
Ignore wrongdoing and injustice for fear of being called "judgemental"

Never fear, If I am ever accused wrongly, I will defend myself.

Continue living in a childish dreamland

Posted by: Prospero1116 | June 28, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Michael Vick is another matter all together. If he were white the same standard would apply. Torture animals to death with your bare hands = sociopath. Prison doesn't fix that. I'm not saying he needs more punishment, I'm just not inclined to feel "he's done his time, all is well.
-------------
White men sport-kill all the time, they just call it hunting. Look at the Vs cable channel on Saturday mornings, you'll see white men sport-killing pheasants, quail, duck, wild turkey, deer-I even saw an episode where a white guy shot a bear in the hip with an arrow and turned to the camera to talk.
-------------------
"I'm just not inclined to feel "he's done his time, all is well."

That's one my points, when it's a black man that statement is a really powerful statement that reads "I'm not done punishing you" which the whole point of this article. So when are you going to be inclined to feel differently about Vick?
You could use that same statement for Mike Tyson?It could be used for Plaxico Burress....and Gilbert Arenas, the punishing is never enough to make folks such as yourself feel "he's done his time, all is well"

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Everybody listen to all the perfect ones on this blog like Funkey and Prospero 1116 like I said you never do anything wrong never did never will neither will your kids or loved ones ever yeah right dream on

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

They weren't pushovers or whipped, they just knew better.

LOL!! I know that's right, sis! :-p

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

georges2, the Chris Brown-Rihanna situation is a microcosmic representation of larger race- and gender-biases present in Western society. The culture that gives free passes to white celebrities for similar or worse behavior than what black celebrities engage in, is the same culture that ignores white domestic terrorism (instead calling them "lone gunmen" even when they have direct ties to extreme right-wing groups). It's the same culture that tries to pretend teabaggers aren't racist, even though polls show that they are largely white, largely have problems with minorities, and largely think Obama favors blacks over everyone else. Additionally, the culture that questions whether Rihanna "deserved" to get hit or whether there were extenuating circumstances that partially or totally justify the act, is the same culture that questions whether Hillary Clinton's pantsuits and cankles make her unfit to be president, or whether Sarah Palin spent too much on clothes (ignoring the fact that men also spend a lot for clothes during presidential campaigns). If you can't see how discussions like these take part within larger contexts and are reflective of greater issues, I can't help you.

Besides, a) it's juicy, and b) there are like a million other places on the Post where you can spend your time. Nobody is forcing you to be here.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 28, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

@ArmchairGM - well, yes, if you are looking for racial slights in everything, i am sure your mind can find them, whether they are really there or not.

so tell me, how was chris brown over punished in this instance by virtue of being black?

When you're banned by the United Kingdom from even entering the country based on a 2 yr old argument that got out of hand when you were a 19 yr old kid, sorry, chief, that kind of looks like overpunishment to me.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

To my Caucasian brothers and sisters, please stop assuming that every time an African American mentions race that we’re playing the race card. Do you even know what the term “race card” really means? I’m 40 years old, and it’s been my experience that it’s white people who have been obsessed about race. Now again, that’s my experience, so don’t try to tell me that I’m generalizing. Black people pretty much know racism when we see it because it’s such a significant part of our history and present lives. Many times, we can’t simply be, because we’re constantly reminded that we’re black and expected to justify ourselves, our very presence in this day and age. I mean, really. I don’t expect anyone to understand racism based on skin color unless they have been subjected to it over and over. My white brethren, just because you don’t see racism doesn’t mean it’s not there. You may choose not to acknowledge it because you don’t have to. We do. On the other hand, many of you do know it’s there because you know our history just like we do, or you yourselves are perpetrators of racism. This country pays so much attention to race when the genetic makeup that determines our skin color and features amount to less than 2% of who we really are as people.

Posted by: Sudanese | June 28, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

And I'm as appalled and disgusted by any kind of "sport" hunting of "big game"--lame jerks trying to prove their "manliness". I'm no fan of hunting small game either, but the comparison is not valid--shooting game that one consumes is not the same thing as torturing domestic animals to death bare handed.

In what way am I "punishing" Michael Vick? I think he's mentally ill--just my opinion and one that has no effect on him whatsoever. Why would it matter if I never am inclined to feel differently about him? It doesn't. There are some people who give me the creeps, and some of them are black and some are white (hello Ben Rothlesberger and Charlie Sheen, welcome to the argument). As for the other guys you mention, with the exception of Tyson I haven't given any one of them a thought ever and have no thoughts or opinions about them. Tyson came to mind recently only because I just saw the Hangover and I was thinking how well he looked. I'd say that falls into the "he's done his time, all is well" category.

You are implicitly accusing me of racism, when in fact race has no bearing on my feelings about any of these people.

Again, when all is said and done, my OPINION of Vick, Chris Brown, Rothlesberger, fill-in-the-public-figure here, is simply that, my opinion. It simply doesn't matter if I don't like someone or not.

Posted by: sorcerers_cat | June 28, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Vick didn't torture animals-he fought dogs. The fact that's it's illegal, is why he was arrested & convicted, fine. It does,however, open up the conversation to ask why is it legal to sport-kill everything else.
What, because dogs are adorable? Tell that to a mama-deer, I'm pretty sure her fawn is adorable to her, ducklings are adorable to mama-ducks and so on. Why be concerned and outraged by only dog-fighting?
Oh and don't hand me that "...one consumes..." junk either. That's why it's called Sport Hunting,it's killing for sport, nothing else.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

I was not a fan before the incident and won't be after
by sorcerers_cat
-----------
I'm only here running my mouth (fingers?!?) on "Chris Brown" the issue, I don't like his music & I don't believe either he or Rihanna can sing a lick. But then, I'm 39, so I'm inclined to think most R&B music these days is lazy, uninspired,formulaic, derivative tripe.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

It's been real crew until the next celebritology....take care, I'm out.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

From the perfect one,

No one is perfect, obviously
But evil must be recognized and fought

Gratuitous forgiveness only encourages the repetition of evil because it comes from fear and moral emptiness

You can't forgive everything because if you do you equate good and evil

I know insincerity when I see it and I will not slavishly commend it

Yes, enewton, we are all flawed, but why are you so accepting of it?

Posted by: Prospero1116 | June 28, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

If all he did was "fought dogs" I'd go along with the "he did his time, all is well" -- but he admitted in court to personally beating, strangling and what was it? Electrocuting? drowning? I can't remember which, several of the dogs whose remains were found on his property. That's torturing to death. And I reserve the right to feel icky about anyone capable of doing that, be he the kid down the street torturing mice, squirrels and cats or a famous and tremendously talented football player.

I'd say your assessment of the state of R & B these days is absolutely spot on.

Posted by: sorcerers_cat | June 28, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

ArmchairGM-I was with you until you started degrading black women in general. As a smart, beautiful AA women, it is not my fault you decided to date crazy, deranged women!

Posted by: JAM114 | June 28, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

ArmchairGM-
...I was with you until you started degrading black women in general.

Give me the quote(s) of degradation, betcha ya' can't because I didn't.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | June 28, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Some black people are so weird to forgive this thug.

Posted by: kenk3 | June 28, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Why am I so accepting of flaws and transgressions.. Unlike a lot of you I am not perfect I am forgiving because of my personal experience. Life has a funny way of knocking you off your high horse when you start to think you are holier than thou or better than the next person. And boy do the mighty fall hard it will bring you to your knees and make you realize who is really in charge. It will humble you and make you realize you are no better than the next person. It will make you less judgemental and more forgiving. But only until you are knocked off your high horse pedestal will you ever begin to appreciate what I am talking about. It may come through something happening to you directly or through your loved ones and you will ask yourself why is this happening to me and you will be forced to think about how you mistreated or looked down on or judged others.

Posted by: enewton | June 28, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Hitting a woman is wrong unless you are a cop in Seattle punching a woman in a face for jaywalking!

Posted by: ronnietaylor2
_____________________________________

He said it all.

Posted by: CAColeman1 | June 28, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

"Michael Vick is another matter all together. If he were white the same standard would apply. Torture animals to death with your bare hands = sociopath. Prison doesn't fix that. I'm not saying he needs more punishment, I'm just not inclined to feel "he's done his time, all is well."

not sure who said this put armchairGM re-posted...

And let me just say this. Rapists get less time and scrutiny than Vick did. I shouldn't have to explain how unfair that is...

And another thing...HUNTING IS NOT A DAMN SPORT!! But since it is in White America, I'll also ask this question. Why the heck are dogs, who are also wild animals, so revered? By no means am I condoning Vicks behavior...I just need to know what the difference is.

Killing any animal is unconscionable. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a vegetarian.

Posted by: CAColeman1 | June 28, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

One more thing...

Charlie Sheen. Mel Gibson. Eminem. Tito Ortiz. Sean Penn. Charlie Sheen. Courtney Love (against her daughter...but I guess she does nothing for this example huh?), Charlie Sheen.

Never seen this much scrutiny against them. It's time to forgive Chris Brown. He got his chance to say...er...cry instead of dealing with PR feeding him lines. And honestly I think it was genuine. The kids whole existence camee crashing down, then his idol dies?? That's enough to send him over the edge eh?? You forgave you're beloved "Two and a Half Men." This kid has a whole life ahead of him.

What would you holy critics rather happen?

I know, I'm late...I actually had work to do during the day. My God where do you people find the time! :)

Posted by: CAColeman1 | June 28, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

CAColeman1 Said:

Why the heck are dogs, who are also wild animals, so revered?

--------------------------------------

You idiot, dogs aren't "wild" animals, they've been domesticated for over 10 thousand years and have been bred to get along with people, except for the human trash who breed fighting dogs.

Posted by: CAColeman1

Posted by: kenk3 | June 28, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

You do make a very valid point, enewton.
I agree there is much in life to humble us, collectively and individually. We have all experienced the rejections, accidents, medical challenges, losses and heartbreaks of life. Most of us learn our proper lessons but some of us don't. Most of us can empathize with our neighbor during his time of trial and suffering and perhaps lend a hand.

However, we can also call a spade a spade. As they say in AA, "you can't BS a BSer." What we saw from Mr. Brown last night was BS pure and simple. It was an embarrassing spectacle, painful to watch. We might disagree as to how to interpret what we saw but I do have the right to express my extreme misgivings as to his sincerity without fear of being accused of arrogance and self-righteousness. Believe me, I've lied (and been lied to) many times in my life so I think I can tell when I see a liar, don't you think? Am I supposed to pretend the lie does not exist? Just because I don't like something and say so doesn't mean I think I'm perfect or better than anyone, it just means I don't like something.

Thanks for sharing your views.

Posted by: Prospero1116 | June 28, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

@Sudanese - really whites are the ones obsessed with race? who brought race into this issue to begin with?

people like armchair are the ones obsessed with race. anytime anything happens they immediately look for racial undertones whether they are there or not and then blame the entire thing on race. ridiculous and self serving. and sad.

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I am not asking you to pretend what he did doesn't exist. He is a public fugure so his dirty laundry will forever be aired.Unlike a lot of people on this blog who are acting like they sit at the right hand of God and are Saints. As a previous poster said if you don't like him don't buy his music. He had his day in court in front of a judge and jury. He has served his sentence. Everybody has an opinion they are entitled to. But there seems to be a lot of self righteousness on this blog that's all I'm saying.

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

@enewton - "Everybody has an opinion they are entitled to". you say that. but then when someone expresses their opinion you call them a hypocrite. talk about mixed messages.

i don't think anyone here claims to be perfect as you seem to contend. but one can be imperfect and still be critical of someone who beats his wife or girlfriend. or someone who rapes or murders. or someone who drives drunk.

just because someone is not perfect does not mean they cannot be critical of others.

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

The other part is you don't know what is in that man's heart. For you to have an opinion is one thing. To judge what is or isn't in a man's heart is judgmental and self righteous. You know when someone you love or know is lying to you because you know that person. You don't know Chris Brown, what is in his heart,or what amends he has made within himself with God or his ex.

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Being critical and having an opinion is one thing being judgmental and self righteous is something totally different

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

i do not know what is in his heart nor have i ever claimed to. but i still don't think that precludes me from criticizing his behavior...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

not sure how i have been 'self rightieous' - please explain to me how i have been. feel frree to quote me from above if needed.

the way you are throwing that phrase around i question whether you actually know its meaning...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Yes, no one knows what's in his heart.

But in my experience I have found:

The louder and more overdone the apology (or lie), the greater the likelihood of deception. Accepting everything at face value is a dangerous practice (I know whereof I speak).

Posted by: Prospero1116 | June 29, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I never said that you weren't entitled to your opinion. You say you don't know what is in his heart but you state you don't believe when he cried during his performance that he was genuine. How do you know that he wasn't genuine when you admit you don't know what is in his heart. Self righteous means you feel you are above transgressions, failings, having faults and this places you above others. Last time I looked none of us walking this Earth met that definition.

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

back to the old argument - if you are unable to criticize anyone of any wrong doing no matter how horrific or extreme if you have done anything wrong in your life. you live in a fantasy world...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Back to my argument if anyone doesn't agree with you then their opinion is irrelevant. lol Look up the definition of opinion vs judgmental. That will tell you everything you need to know. Opinion is a personal belief not founded on proof or certainty. Judgment to judge harshly make judgments especially moral or personal ones.

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I live in a fantasy world? Your arrogance tells me it's your world everybody else is just living in it

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

when you have an opinion you have made a judgment, albeit personally. you are just playing semantics at this point.

again - please point out where i have been self righteous. we can address the semantics of opinion vs judgmental once we have resolved your understanding of what self righteous means. again, feel free to use quotes...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

i don't think i am being arrogant. just trying to figure out your stance. you yell hypocrite or self righteousness at anyone who criticizes CB. the first argument is absurd, the second ill-informed, it would appear. but please, educate me on your stance. i am not sure you can, however...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

here is how your view on this comes across-

if you criticized CB for beating his girlfriend and have done anything wrong in your life you are not only being a hypocrite but also self righteous. and you must think you are so perfect to criticize him. how dare you.

to me, that appears to be a pretty silly stance...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

You are being self righteous by judging him on a moral and personal level. I don't have to quote just look at everything you have posted on here. You stated you don't know him personally, you don't know what is in his heart yet you stand in judgment of him morally. And I think you are self righteous why? Go figure? An opinion... what he did was messed up I think he should be locked up. A judgment...those tears weren't real he's not genuine

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

By the way what do you think about the male police officer that punched the teenage girl in the face? I guess he is excused because he is an officer or the law huh? lol

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

@enewton - it would seem you are being slef righteous now - seeming to kno what is in my heart and what i meant...

maybe you should go back and actually read what i wrote. i never commented on whether or not his tears were sincere or not. i could care less. i just said that i do not really see redemption in a convicted domestic abuser doing a tribute to a multiply accused pedophile.

you seem to be confusing me with other people who have doubted the sincerity of his tears. which is basically what i expected and why i asked you to quote me from above.

maybe actually read what is there instead of what you want to see. you are as bad as armchair...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

@enewton - "By the way what do you think about the male police officer that punched the teenage girl in the face? I guess he is excused because he is an officer or the law huh? lol"

so you are forming my thoughts for me in advance now? wow. who is the hypocrite now? so sad...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

@enewton - by the way - why are you changing the subject to seattle? would you prefer to discuss that?

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

You are right all of my post are for you and Prospero1116. You two can figure out what applies to each of you.

This ones for you there you go passing judgment on Michael Jackson now wasn't he acquitted of ALL charges. Now you are passing judgment on me and Armchair now and you don't know us either. Wow I rest my case

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Yes Funkey lets talk about Seattle. Chris Brown is a horrible woman beater. Seattle cop punches female teenager with a closed fist in the face. Isn't he a woman beater too or is he just doing his job. Can't wait for this response

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

@enewton - well when you call me self righteous for something someone else did or said, don't be surprised when i take umbrage at it. it is lazy on your part to lump the two of us together when we have very different views on this. but not surprising, as laziness seems to be your calling card.

i never said MJ was or was not a pedophile. i said very specifically he was a multiple accused pedophile. do you dispute that?

as for you and armchair, you both seem to fall into a pattern of seeing things that aren't there. in the case of armchair it would appear racism. in your case it is things you think i have or have written that i have clearly not.

as for seattle, if the cop beat a woman, which the video seems to show pretty demonstratively, then by definition, he is a woman beater. duh.

it would appear tome to be a very straightforward case of police brutality. do you see it differently?

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Wow Funkey now you say I am lazy? But I won't take it personal because it appears you judge everybody and you do it so naturally you don't even realize that you are doing it lol As for the policeman I think it was police brutality. As for MJ it doesn't matter what he was accused of. The courts found him innocent. But we all know in the "Just Us" system it is guilty before proven innocent right.

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

You know, I've done a lot of wrong in my life. Made a lot of mistakes. But at no time did one of those mistakes include assault or torturing dogs to death. Not at 9, 19, or 29. Or for that matter, pedophilia. I don't think it's just me. The whole "it was a MISTAKE" thing just loses me utterly when you consider the severity of the "mistake".

As for Chris Brown..... I'm willing to judge the art and not the artist unless the artist really is out there. It's been a year; if Rhianna can move on than so can I. Though in his case it's awfully easy decision because I don't like his art either.

Posted by: DCCubefarm | June 29, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

@enewton - yes. this may surprise you since you seem to excuse CB, but you are defined by your actions. when you do something lazy, that makes you lazy. when you beat a woman, you are a woman beater. by grouping prospero and i together when responding even though we have quite different views you have done something lazy, thus making you lazy.

as for MJ, it does matter what he was accused of, because in a few instances the cases were settled out of court meaning he most likely paid off the accusers.

as for the 'Just Us' system, can you elaborate on that please? i would love to see your take.

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"Based on his BET Awards turn, is it time to forgive Chris Brown?"

For his music or his behavior?

Posted by: td_in_baltimore | June 29, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

FUNKEY the more I hear you talk the more appropriate the name FUNKEY becomes for you lol Who pissed in your Cheerios dude? Your posts portray you as a bitter, angry, judgmental and controlling person. Does that make you a bitter, angry, and controlling person? I don't know because I don't know you. Thank God...

Posted by: enewton | June 29, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

@enewton - no response to the posts, eh? just ad hominem attacks? about what i would expect from you.

but doesn't passing judgment on me as being bitter and angry ,make you, um, self righteous and hypocritical according to your own definition of the words.

nice try, kitten, but you argue with flawed reasoning and have no clue. go ahead and fall all over yourself defending a wife beater and a pedophile. it suits you...bye now, kitten...

Posted by: funkey | June 29, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

The kid is a punk.

I mean if he hit her sure... but he beat her. And beyond that he released nude photos of her. And he just acted like a punk. And even if all that was forgivable (his painted on jeans included), he talked back to Oprah. Who does that?

Posted by: aquarius129 | July 2, 2010 5:46 PM | Report abuse

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