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Posted at 11:13 AM ET, 11/19/2010

Just in time for Kelly Preston's new addition, Scientology explains silent birth

By Liz Kelly

John Travolta and Kelly Preston. (Getty Images)

Kelly Preston and John Travolta are basically moments away from the birth of a new baby. Joyous news that -- more than anything -- kicks the wacky rumors surrounding Scientology's (both Preston and Travolta are long-time adherents to the belief system) so-called "silent births" into hyperdrive.

"The couple will follow the church's guidelines during delivery," a family insider allegedly told PopEater's Rob Shuter. "No music, no talking and no screaming will be allowed during the pains of labor. Also their new son cannot be prodded for medical tests or spoken to for the first seven days of his life. You don't want to do anything that will haunt them for the rest of their lives."

For reals?

In an effort to combat a wave of misinformation, the Church of Scientology helpfully sent us a press release explaining silent birth -- what it entails and the thinking behind the practice. Below, a few excerpts from the release that will undoubtedly quell any misgivings about Scientology births bearing any resemblance to alien abduction, torture or the weirdest scene from a super-weird movie:

A silent birth is labor and delivery done in a calm and loving environment and with no spoken words by anyone attending. Chatty doctors and nurses, shouts to “PUSH, PUSH” and loud or laughing remarks to “encourage” are the types of things that are meant to be avoided.

Wait, so does that mean no noise at all?

The point of silent birth is NO WORDS. It does not mean a mother cannot make any sound during childbirth. It is doubtful that any woman could give birth without making any noise at all.

Ah. Okay, so a woman could -- for example -- hum a tune from "Saturday Night Fever" or wail in pain. But, why the insistence on no words?

[T]o provide a brief explanation, L. Ron Hubbard discovered the hidden source of nightmares, unreasonable fears, upsets, insecurity and psychosomatic illness -- the reactive mind. This part of the mind records all perceptions during times of pain and unconsciousness -- which childbirth is for both mother and child. And words, in particular, spoken during these moments, can have an adverse effect on one later in life.

That explains a lot. What about the whole not speaking to the kid for seven days thing?

This is a complete fabrication and not a practice of Scientology.

Do kids born into Scientology-practicing families get the requisite amount of TLC?

"Affection could no more spoil a child than the sun could be put out by a bucket of gasoline." -- L. Ron Hubbard

Now I understand. Consider my public service mission for the day accomplished.

By Liz Kelly  | November 19, 2010; 11:13 AM ET
Categories:  Baby Boom  
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I'm sorry. I like JT and KP, but their beliefs are c.r.a.z.y.

I can't imagine, for one second, not having spoken to, or sung to, not have expressed my verbal love to my baby. And the whole silent birth thing? You can tell that he never physically delivered a baby.

Posted by: Guest1234 | November 19, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I'm surprised the $cientolocult doesn't require the mother to remain silent through all 9 months of pregnancy as well.

What a bunch of wackos!

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | November 19, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Great article. Thanks for your "public mission." Wishing John and Kelley the very best!

Posted by: lbwieland | November 19, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Great article. Thanks for your "public mission." Wishing John and Kelley the very best!

Posted by: lbwieland | November 19, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

@Guest1234 - definitely read past the initial headline: the whole "don't talk to your kid for 7 days" thing is a total fabricated falsehood - no Scientologist believes that.

To set the record straight, plenty of stories of how Scientologist births actually take place here:

Mr. Hubbard's actual quote is:

"Scientology parents make the baby part of the family at once. They start talking to the baby. They usually make very, very sure that the baby didn’t have a rough passage prenatally and that the baby had a decent and easy birth.

"When a child arrives, the normal thing they tell the child is, 'Well, how are you? Glad you’re here.'" -- L. Ron Hubbard

Full quote here:

Posted by: Turbotad | November 19, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

It is unbelievable how gossip media just quotes some anonymous nonsense instead of getting the true information from the source. Thank you, Washington Post, for putting the record straight!

Posted by: LouanneLee | November 19, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

'm happy for John and Kelly. I'm sure they are great parents.

Thank you Liz for clearing up all the misinformation on silent birth.

I have a few friends who have opted for silent births and the main thing I noticed was how calm everyone came back from the delivery and how quickly the mother recovered.

And in two specific cases I'm thinking of - VERY happy babies! Noticeably so.

Posted by: FireBlue | November 19, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

My own experience with this when I was delivering a child was that it allowed my baby to be born in a calm, peaceful environment. It really paid off with the baby being alert and energetic from the start.

Posted by: joanll | November 19, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Those rules makes sense. All the best to John and Kelly for the upcoming birth, silent or otherwise!

Posted by: RogerThat2 | November 19, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

This is what it's all about - confirming the truth of a report, especially when it hovers around a topic that is so delicate - religion. Thank you Washington Post for confirming fact and doing thorough research before publishing. John and Kelly deserve all the happiness in the world and should be congratulated for their newborn, not gossiped about.

Posted by: CorneliaDunn | November 19, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

after the child is born..Scientologist will give the infant a concoction called "Barley Water" in lieu of mothers milk or formula.
L Ron Hubbard got this dangerous nutritional advice from quack author and food faddist Adelle Davis. Hubbard was a fan of hers and quickly adapted her ideas to his Scientology rituals for newborns.

part of the formula requires corn syrup of honey for sweetener. this the biggest problem with the formula. giving infants, large doses of sugar and the lack of nutritional and essential vitamins lacking in the Barley Formula Recipe.the risks anemia are high.

the risk of botulism from Honey as an alternative sweetener is also a concern

Posted by: justsunshine | November 19, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Sound like a nice way to manage the childbirth experience. Keeping things calm and quiet makes what can be a tough moment a little easier. Thanks Washington Post for filling us in on the details for what appears to have been a subject people have been somewhat misinformed about for a long time. I'm sure with a little more education, this will be looked at as just another birthing option like home birth, water birth or birth with midwife assistance.

Also, best wishes to Kelly and John on the birth of their child!

Posted by: nellycricket | November 19, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

PopEater's "family insider" is probably just some imaginary person they made up to cause controversy...glad someone is speaking out against these non-sense rumors.

Posted by: theayec | November 19, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

The whole "silent birth" thing doesn't seem particularly controversial at all, especially when you look at the facts of what they're doing (and omitting the complete fabrication of not speaking to the child for seven days). It keeps the whole process relatively calm and prevents the mother and child from being overly stressed or confused. And if it's true that the "reactive mind" is recording during periods of unconsciousness, and that the words can later affect the person (as in hypnotism), then this practice makes even more sense. Is this really any stranger than natural birth practices like giving birth in water? I, for one, commend them for being such conscientious parents.

Posted by: doctornoway | November 19, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

justsunshine, your post is a complete lie, from beginning to end. Why are you doing this?

Posted by: LouanneLee | November 19, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Liz, you had me at "for reals." Still, if this was the most unusual belief in Scientology, I probably wouldn't have any problem with it.

Posted by: reddragon1 | November 19, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Lets get one thing straight. The church released a statement on Silent birth and clearly started that it's not a practice of Scientology to not speak to your child for seven days. Why is it stated in the article above that the won't be speaking to their child for seven days? That just makes it sound bad... L. Ron Hubbard was much for communication. Communication is vital in Scientology... so why on earth would you post false information into this article? Get the facts straight before you submit the article. LRH had a quote that stated "When in doubt, communicate." Stop making the silent birth something that it's not.

Posted by: 44r0n | November 19, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Lets get one thing straight. The church released a statement on Silent birth and clearly started that it's not a practice of Scientology to not speak to your child for seven days. Why is it stated in the article above that the won't be speaking to their child for seven days? That just makes it sound bad... L. Ron Hubbard was much for communication. Communication is vital in Scientology... so why on earth would you post false information into this article? Get the facts straight before you submit the article. LRH had a quote that stated "When in doubt, communicate." Stop making the silent birth something that it's not.

Posted by: 44r0n | November 19, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

@FireBlue I had a similar experience when my first child was born. The practice of silent birth allowed my wife and I to have a deeply spiritual experience while she was in the process of giving labor. The absence of unnecessary conversation truly allowed me to appreciate the intensity of the moment and to say the least, it changed my life. At the very moment that my son was born there was a sheer sense of solidarity--the bond between my wife and I and our mutual bond with our son at that moment is something that I wish everyone could experience.

Posted by: theayec | November 19, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

That comment was towards PopEater's article, not the Washington Post.

Posted by: 44r0n | November 19, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Having grown up in Scientology with 2 brothers, and now having 2 girls of my own, plus being pregnant with a third, as well as having several Scientologist aunts, uncles and cousins, I can tell you Scientology's articles on birthing are great and very practical and nothing "weird". Also to the person who posted about Barley, I both breast fed and barley formula fed my girls and my brothers and I were given barley formula. Honey is not used, and there are many very natural sweeteners you can use (a tiny amount). It's a very nice healthy recipe, BTW. My kids are very healthy and well. Many Scientologists breast feed and I plan to nurse my next child as well. People should always get the facts before assuming things... Thanks for posting this article Washington Post, nice job on giving the info on a silent birth.

Posted by: LongIslandleelee | November 19, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Silent birth makes total sense to me! It's all about no WORDS, but of course human sounds like the sounds that a woman makes when she gives birth can be made. I believe in religious tolerance and respect John and Kelly for their choice of belief. They are not harming anyone and simply practicing their religion.

Posted by: CorneliaDunn | November 19, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

And the hits just keep on coming! What does any of this have to do with Bristol Palin, I ask.

Posted by: reddragon1 | November 19, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

reddragon1, I think you are in the wrong article.

Posted by: LouanneLee | November 19, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

More info on the barley water baby formula and Scientology's position on breast feeding:

Posted by: barleybaby | November 19, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

It certainly can't help to have the first words you hear in life be negative words cussing out the daddy... LOL. I can totally see why this makes sense.

Good luck to them having their baby. Glad to hear they won't refrain from talking to the kiddo after the trauma of birth is over.

Posted by: rorimandi | November 19, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Since the entire pregnancy is faked, Kelli Preston can be as quiet as she wants during the birth.

Posted by: yellojkt | November 19, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Scientology is one of the most wholesome philosophies there are. Everything done in Scientology is for the betterment of man, to improve his conditions in life and to give him the tools he needs for happiness and successful living. It reveres all people, all races, all religions and especially children. Its social betterment activities speak for themselves. It amazes me the length that some people will go to to make absolute fools of themselves when, really, they know not what they are talking about. The Chinese have a proverb about the levels of fools which includes that the biggest fool is the one who doesn't know he's a fool. Well done, John and Kelly and The Washington Post for printing this interview and article.

Posted by: Allison13 | November 19, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

On this nonsense about "Barley" and "Breatfeeding" I would recommend anyone to look at real life, for example here:

Posted by: LouanneLee | November 19, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

The peice below gives information about why a silent birth can help

What exactly is a silent birth?
This is all about providing the best possible environment for the birthing mother and her new baby.

Silent births are labor and delivery done in a calm and loving environment. This means everyone attending the birth should refrain from spoken words as much as possible. Chatty doctors and nurses, shouts to “PUSH, PUSH” and loud or laughing remarks to husbands are the types of noises that are meant to be avoided.

The idea of silent birth is based on L. Ron Hubbard’s research into the mind and spirit. He found that words spoken during moments of pain and unconsciousness can have adverse effects on an individual later in life. What has been said during traumatic experiences such as birth records in a part of the mind called the reactive mind. These recordings store and have the power to influence a person by dictating thoughts, emotions and psychosomatic ills not under his control. Anyone can read about this in the book Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health.

Mothers naturally want to give their babies the best possible start in life and thus keep the birth as quiet as possible.

In 2010 the Church of Scientology International published a statement on the subject, which can be found here:

Posted by: KevinOwen | November 19, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

@Nosy_Parker: nosy parkers are persons of an overly-inquisitive or prying nature. You're not a nosy parker, you're just rude.

Posted by: GeorgeeGirl | November 19, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Wow! So nice to see a news organization that is interested in uncovering the facts as opposed to sensationalizing.

All the best to John and Kelly and family. I have read about their humanitarian efforts--they are a credit to America.

Posted by: RiverGuy1 | November 19, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Ok, well that helped me understand Silent Birth! Interesting and makes sense! Thanks for posting what they really believe.
Good luck to John and Kelly.

Posted by: Interesting3 | November 19, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Thank you Washington Post for getting the facts straight. I am a Scientologists mother and am expecting my second child next month. I spoke to my baby right after she was born as did my husband. @Guest1234 - I agree with you completely. Anyone who says you can't speak with your child is nuts. That's not our views nor any Scientologists view that I am aware of thankfully.

I breast-fed by first baby for the first 8 months and am actually Mrs. October in a National Breastfeeding Calendar (so nothing against breastfeeding obviously)!

I am looking forward to having another calm and wonderful experience in delivering this next one as well.

All my love to Kelly and JT. You guys are doing wonderful.

Posted by: Kit_Kat | November 19, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Discussion about Hubbard's ideas ("research" to brainwashed cult members) should be taken in light of Hubbard claiming smoking MORE as a cancer preventative. (Quote in Hubbard's voice on YOUTUBE.)

He also claimed he had control over the aging process, but died a mess at age 74.

Hubbard's expert child rearing resulted in driving his 22 year old son Quentin to suicide and his son Ron Jr. to turn against him and his scam quite pointedly. Ron Jr.'s talk show appearance is available on YOUTUBE, where he spills the beans on the cult. Later, the cult paid him off to retract his statements.

Most of Hubbard's claptrap is harmless, some of it even common sense, but a lot of it isn't.

Hubbard took amphetamines, pain killers and died with the anti-psychotic drug Vistaril in his body. He can be heard flying on amphetamines in a few of his lectures.

Hubbard was a man who flunked out of college in his 2nd year, bought a PhD from a fraudulent mail-order school called Sequoia and also claimed he was a nuclear physicist.

Does the "sun and gasoline" quote sound a bit odd to anyone else? It explains why in his 40 million words, translated into a record number of languages by the cult, no one quotes Hubbard outside the cult, EVER, except when showing how greedy, crazy, or laughable he was.

Xenu loves you. He really does.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 19, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Remember when the discussion before Suri's birth was about the possible use of L. Ron's frozen sperm?

Well, not speaking to a child for 7 days was incorrect, but the cult LOVES these wrong kinds of stories and probably plants them.

Then a few members of their propaganda control department, (Office of Special Affairs) used multiple accounts to spam article comments sections like this.

"People make up lies about Scientology, which is only here to help blah blah."

It distracts the public from the fact the cult sells the expensive Xenu secret, for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and traps people in a money scam up the BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM.

They don't like mention that their current leader David Miscavige, a high school dropout, is a tiny little man who beats up his underlings.

wiki Xenu
wiki Scientology

This mind control cult has a LONG criminal history of fraud. Hubbard's fake "research" is getting more dated and silly every year, as if anyone outside this cult who is going to have a baby, really cares what a huckster/sci fi writer from the 1950's thinks about child birth!

Babies do not understand words at birth. It does not traumatize them as an "engram" because there are no engrams, just as there are no dead space alien souls called Body Thetans, that were blasted out of volcanoes by Xenu the evil galactic overlord, 75 million years ago.

Body Thetan removal consumes years and thousands of dollars from the Scientologist during the OT theories. Before that, they just think they are getting rid of trauma (engrams).

You can't believe everything Scientology tells you, but members of this cult do just that, and the workers get thrown into the RPF hard labor prison camp if they question ANYTHING HUBBARD WROTE!

There should be more discussion that this cult is headed for a Jonestown-like tragedy, given the disposition of the current leadership, their aggressive nature to keep members in line, brought on by the enormous melt-down in new membership they are experiencing because of the truth on the web, and the horror stories from ex-members.

For those of you who don't know, it was the true story's by ex-members that played a significant part in what lead to the Jonestown tragedy, when Congressman Leo Ryan went down to investigate.

Scientology is under investigation on multiple fronts but the web has done more to expose their myriad of abuses, more than any government agency.

France declared that they are a fraud.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 19, 2010 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Washington Post, for actually being journalist and covering the facts, not rumor.

Good luck to John and Kelly and their early Christmas present.

Posted by: vassiton | November 19, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Frankly I can not FATHOM how something so simble can be made it such a hoop to la over nothing. It's their right to have their child the way they want.

Posted by: jackfarmer | November 20, 2010 2:36 AM | Report abuse

Eerie how all the pro-$cientology comments sound exactly the same . . . come on OSA, mix it up a bit. And please, it's not a religion. Hubbard only declared it a religion because the FDA was coming after him for scamming the public with his cribbed and cobbled together "modern science of mental health" which first appeared in Astounding Science Fiction magazine.

Posted by: Pariedolius | November 20, 2010 3:06 AM | Report abuse

Well, the practice seems quite logical actually. Thanks Washington Post for the clarification on 'silent birth' and any incorrect information out there.

I'm sure Scientologists aren't the only ones who try to practice calm deliveries either. From what I've heard (talking to other parents I know or meet) it seems to be more and more common for deliveries to occur in a calm environment (where possible).

As a mother of two, I understand the desire to want the best possible welcome for your new arrival, so well done to anyone who can remain calm and not shout or swear through their delivery!

Posted by: LaraCroft74 | November 20, 2010 4:15 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for doing the research and not just running with rumors. What people have to realize is this is a concept and an ideal. In labor, things happen and that's just how it goes. My daughter did this as best she could and it went great and she felt much better without idle chatter. She did need some medical hep and had issues but the doctor spoke quietly and all was peaceful and not traumatic.

Posted by: puzzler86 | November 20, 2010 7:14 AM | Report abuse

These Scientologists seem to use the barley formula:

By the way, Scientologists are leaving the abusive cult of Scientology in droves.

Posted by: barleybaby | November 20, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

I would like to thank the author for going to the source for the true information and making it available. As a mother of two, I can't imagine why a couple would *not* want a calm, safe environment for the mother to labor and deliver in. Birth is a pretty intense experience, for mother and baby, and anything that can be done to make it less so should be, in my opinion. Seems that Kelly and John are just doing something logical that is best for mom and babe. I wish them all the best.

Posted by: kissmekate101 | November 20, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

"Affection could no more spoil a child than the sun could be put out by a bucket of gasoline." -- L. Ron Hubbard

That's one for every "happy" mother to memorize and teach her "happy" baby, after taking Hubbard's happy baby course.

Or it could be from Hubbard's "bucket-of-gasoline" series of weird Scientology aphorisms?

The truth could no more put out Dianetics than the sun could be put out by a bucket of gasoline.

OSA members could no more be stopped from opening several accounts and pretending they're mothers of two, who wish John and Kelly "all the best," than the sun could be put out by a bucket of gasoline...

Posted by: MrGrug | November 20, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Thank you for this article clarifying what is meant by "silent birth". As a fan of the midwifery model of care, I believe this to simply be a practice borne out of love and respect for mother and baby, not some "wacko" idea.

For anyone else commenting about the crazy practices of Scientology or Scientologists, I recommend they take a page out of this journalists book and simply look at the source of the information.

Posted by: christibale | November 20, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"christibale!"...I'm quessing you and LaraCroft74 were twins separated at your silent Scientology birth?

Regular members of Scientology cult are not allowed to read articles like this, which happen to contain some rather tongue-in-cheek "entheta" and may push a member off their $400,000 Scientology "bridge to total freedom."

But can't the OSA make their fake identities sound just a little bit different? Tory Magoo, a vocal ex-member of this cult, now critic, describes how OSA members open fake accounts and one person will act like different people. How does she know? She did it! She worked for the OSA (Scientology propaganda wing) doing exactly that.

Should we just look at the nicer parts of National Socialism, Stalinism etc. like full employment and happy families? They wanted nice things too, if you look only at some of their individual policies and not bother with how they executed them.

There were many people who were happy at the People's Temple (Jonestown) before 910 of them were forced to drink cyanide-laced koolaid. They ALL said they were very happy. They were forced to say it, just as Scientologists are.

Let's forget history, court records, deaths, facts, ruined lives, misery and the totalitarian control of the Scientology cult. Let's forget their plans for world domination through lies, and just think of sunshine, happy babies, and celebrities who are having a blast at Scientology's Celebrity Centers.

Many people don't even know that John Travolta is gay, and Scientology helped him hide that, by assigning the Scientology wife Kelly. Aren't they the perfect Scientology star couple?

We know from Scientology's commercials that SCIENTOLOGY IS LIFE. It is everything, really! Chocolate, paper clips, pretty girls, your first love. We know you think you have all the answers and that Hubbard knew everything. Tom Cruise said you are the ONLY ones with all the answers, for crime, drugs, education, government, business, the evil psychiatrists, and of course childbirth and everything about life.

In the early years of the web, there was only one outlet for Scientology criticism. It was Usenet discussion/news group, ARS alt.religion.scientology. The cult's OSA members used to spam it with recipes, to bury the critical messages, push them to another page.

Anyone ex-member or critic who discussed Xenu in detail, got in big trouble. One guy's home was raided because he re-posted portions of their silly and top secret Xenu story. He counter sued and got a settlement, and now everything from Xenu to Tom Cruise's nutty video is on the web, and there's nothing the cult can do, but write warm fuzzy lies, or attack.

Redirecting people's attention might fool some child for five seconds if they are kind of slow, and know nothing about the basics of Scientology ABUSES, how they trap people, how the fees go up incredibly once the hooks are in, and the brainwashing has begun.

Keep the Xenu alive!

Posted by: MrGrug | November 20, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

What McGrug said . . . plus this video of Hubbard in his own words . . .
Space is Wild!

Posted by: Pariedolius | November 20, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"Redirecting people's attention might fool some child for five seconds if they are kind of slow..."

You mean like this?

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household."
-- Jesus Christ (Matthew 10:34-36)

Isn't it easy to spin a religion, folks, especially a new one?

To the Scientology churchies and Anti-churchies -- stop pretending that Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard are perfectly perfect or perfectly imperfect (respectively).

"Use what works, discard the rest." (paraphrased)

Guess who said that? That's right. L. Ron Hubbard and Yours Truly (Carl Sagan's Ghost).

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 20, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

#1 It isn't a religion. Hubbard said himself that Dianetics is a science, the greatest gift to mankind since the wheel and fire. If you read the accurately documented history of Scientology in the 50's you will see that Dianetics the science went out of business, because of medical authorities; unlicensed therapy.

It was reborn as a "religion" because Hubbard was back in business that way and could make a lot of money. I now pronounce you a spirit!

Scientology says up front, it is 40 million words, spoken and written by L. Ron Hubbard. Yet, they cannot tell you what it is!

And have you ever heard of an active Scientologist being able to discard parts of it, while in the cult, and being allowed to tell someone what parts they don't believe and why? Where is your freedom there? Freedom to shut up. Freedom to make up "wins" so you don't have to repeat the same cuckoo you went through at the previous level?

For example, do you not believe that "the tech works 100% of the time?" Or do you not believe your highest dynamic in life, for the next billion years, should be Keeping Scientology Working?

Try telling that to someone at the Org.

According to the authors of the Bible, Jesus spoke about 2026 words. And every word and passage gets discussed endlessly, just by ordinary Christians in the course of a Bible study. Also, hundreds of scholars have written about the meaning of those words and disagree about interpretations.

Hubbard said that Dianetics was the only specific cure for radiation is all such baloney I have trouble reading or listening to Hubbard and understanding how any sane person can believe such absurd nonsense.

Scientology has no theologians, no discussion of Xenu, nor are there scientists who have done studies proving Dianetics is a science, and cures blindness, arthritis and homosexuality, like Hubbard said. You realize Hubbard said it cured his blindness. No VA documents of Hubbard's blindness, but he sure complained about other things, including mental problems.

Religious scholars who are familiar with Scientology laugh about it in private. Some will accept commissions to approve of something to make it sound legitimate, if paid enough by the cult.

Laughably, there's been one too many Julius Caesars and Cleopatras cropping up as a past lives among your membership?

"Choose what works for you and discard the rest," is an illusion in Scientology. You end up accepting every bit of cuckoo or you are thrown out, declared an SP, silenced, or security checked out of tens of thousands of dollars.

Members have been thrown in your hard labor prison camp, the RPF, for "bad thoughts about Hubbard."

Hubbard put a 4 year old boy in a chain locker for days, (where the ship's anchor is stores) for "chewing a telex."

Of course, the alternative is just to be silent, not even discuss Xenu with a spouse, respecting Hubbard's warning that you may die of pneumonia if you don't obey.

But have a nice time with your whole track.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 20, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Sounds sensible to me.

My best wishes to the parents and child for a smooth birth and wonderful life!

Posted by: joelm3 | November 20, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

I find it quite amuzing that the up-coming birth of a loved child by a loving couple can be attempted to be used in such a slanted way with loaded phrases so obviously planned to ellisit a negitive unthinking response. It reminds me of some of the war time propaganda from Nazi germany I've seen. Hate mongering at it's worse. The realy sad part is that there will be a small part who will blindly beleive it without having the integerity to check for themselves. Those after all are the TRUE target of the attack as anyone who does check for himself finds out the TRUTH based on his own observation this is the person who does make it in Scientology. those who are blind followers end up attacking because they never KNEW for them selves they only BELIEVED. Those are lost to their own weakness. more to be pittied than fought.

Posted by: jackfarmer | November 21, 2010 3:57 AM | Report abuse

It's a an odd testament to Hubbard's "Study Tech" that people in their comments-handling squad (Scientology Office of Special Operations) can't spell or write.

STUDY TECH is the system of learning that Scientology would like to impose on the world.

This is a cult where the present leader, David Miscavige, is a high school dropout.

John Travolta and Tom Cruise? Also high school dropouts. If I were in their place, with lucrative Hollywood careers, I would have dropped out too. But still, their lack of understanding of history or even psychology, makes their grasp of these subjects so flexible that when they get into the cult they can seemingly be made to believe anything.

Up is down, in Scientology. That's one reason actors fit in this world. They are used to acting, pretending they are other people, often people who are quite different from themselves. For many actors, the lines begin to blur, between the people they play on the screen, the people they have to play in real life to maintain and grow their careers, and the person that is their more authentic self.

They think they find that in Scientology. Scientology engenders a narcissism, that it excuses, with a "superman" type of theory that they are the New Man here to "save the planet." Members are forbidden to look outside at facts. They must look within, at what is true for them, and all these things must be KSW, or cult-promoting. Instead of finding an individual self, most cult members display a uniformity in their aggressiveness in "attacking" anyone who criticizes aspects of the cult or its founder.

Stars don't always do this because some are very image conscious.

The Scientology journey within is controlled by a process which involves hypnosis, thought-stopping, conditioning with repetitive training drills (not just rituals), that produce robots of sorts, especially in relation to how members are allowed to think and speak about Scientology.

Hundreds of ex-members have mentioned how the gradual hypnosis was so subtle, they had no idea of what was being done to them. They didn't really even understand the subject of Scientology, until they got out. This was especially true for the children brought up in it, who assumed, Scientology was the only way to save the planet from imminent destruction.

Is it really that?

Did Hubbard really have ALL the answers and solutions?

Given that Scientology appeals to less than 1% of the population, how is it going to save the planet.

Except for building-wise, it is shrinking like crazy. They've ripped off billions from people who no longer believe in it at all.

The comic book Xenu secret is not going to sell like it used to, and Tommy Davis confirmed that it is embraced as "sacred scripture" in OTIII.

We have YOUTUBE. Where are the super powers? Show us the attributes of a "clear."

Pretending you perform "time shifts" in secret, and acting nuts isn't a super power.

Tell us what Xenu means to you!

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I would like to write some things that partly explain the dynamics of John Travolta's involvement in Scientology.

First, Travolta seems to have a very pleasant personality. He's easy going, and I've heard so many stories about him being a "nice guy" from reliable sources, that I believe them. I've seen him in many interviews, and he seems ever so much more real, and kind, compared to Cruise.

He's intelligent enough to fly those big airplanes and he seems more reflective and thoughtful than most other actors.

Still, he got stuck. He's gay or bisexual, and like most gay/bi actors in Hollywood, had to hide his gay side in order to be successful. It can be a career killer, or at least lessen the potential a male actor has for playing leading roles.

Remember, two straight actors were selected for the greatest gay movie of all time, Brokeback Mountain.

So, Travolta found shelter in Scientology, perhaps in the beginning, hoping to get rid of his gay "engram," but by now that is not a factor. He goes to gay gyms or bath houses, where men have sex with each other. That's pretty much a fact, just like Rock Hudson did the same.

During the time John Travolta got caught in a big love scandal with another guy, suddenly he was dating Scientology's Kelly Preston and bingo, they are married.

Are they in deep love now? I have no idea, but if I had to put money either way, I'd say probably not. A lot of it is probably an act. But he loves his children. That isn't an act.

Kelly gets a lot out of it too, for the same reason Katie Holmes hitched her wagon to Cruise. It helps one's career, to marry a superstar.

Also, it could be, Kelly and John are very much in love or at least very good friends and like living together.

Either way, they are in a celebrity bubble and within that world, they are in the celebrity scientology bubble.

Hollywood celebrity's scientology bubble is going to be the last to be burst by information on the web.

There is hope though. Writer/director Paul Haggis found the St. Petersburg Times articles on David Miscavige (leader of the cult) beating his staff, and it played a part in him leaving. This series, THE TRUTH RUNDOWN is easily findable on the web.

Also, Paul Haggis's wife was "disconnected" from her parents, urged to cut off all contact with them, because I guess they were no longer KSWing.

The question now, is how long can Scientology keep up the illusion, keep postulating and claiming rapid expansion when most of their Orgs are emptying out, because of the web.

My prediction is that Scientology will be forced to do more charitable work, like teaching people to read for free. They'll still have enough money to pay their semi-literate slave force.

The cult collided with a big piece of ice called the web.

They can't send a bunch of Private Investigators out to intimidate the web. They can't try to "ruin" everyone who criticizes the cult's abuses on the web.

They can't go after every ex-member, but they'll try.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for posting accurate information.

It makes a nice change from the inaccurate nonsense some media outlets print and the straightforward hate that some on the Internet feel compelled to regurgitate.

Posted by: grahamesd | November 21, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Ok, here's an actual Scientologist, involved four about four decades, putting in my two cents, anyone interested? OK, here goes:

An overview here: There's an old proverb: "NEVER FIGHT WITH A SKUNK,HE LIKES THE SMELL!"

So, I am NOT going to bother refuting, point by point, any of the criticisms mentioned in these post by any of the detractors of my faith. You are free to go to and get all the info you need to make your own decision.

I WILL say that in the entirely of my involvement with Scientology and Dianetics, I've never read or encountered anything even remotely like what was posted as "fact", in the above hostile remarks.

My personal story is that, skeptical as I was at the outset, I got into Scientology to handle a BIG problem which I had gotten no help on from ANY other religion, practice, "technique" etc. Within about a month, using just the simple methods in Scientology, it was GONE, for good, nada, bye-bye, never to return. I said, "Hmm..well that seems to have done the job, What else is there in this stuff?" So, I continued using it and helping others with it and here I am, happy and proud to have literally saved certain peoples lives because I used Scientology and am a Scientologist.

All the whacky stuff being said about what Scientology materials contain is simply untrue. Untrue as well, is the gossip about who is gay or who is this or that. NO truth, just fantasy. I know.

Now you may ask; If everything is as you say, then why would Scientology be so viciously criticized?

To which I say, Look whose toes Scientology is stepping on: "big pharma" [pushing antidepressants on pre-teens, "diagnosing" everyone they can as mentally ill, etc.] and various interests which collude to create a world which is "socially engineered" to maintain a "controlled society". Even many of our DETRACTORS are not happy with that.

But there is an obscene amount of money and power at stake, so when Scientologists, or ANYONE really, come around with an idea of enabling people to achieve freedom and dignity, "they" panic, and call the dogs out. Look at history, you'll see this pattern over and over.

I DON'T know this as a fact, but past experience, such as the outcome of legal actions, etc. shows that these detractors draw pay from said vested interests. When the pay stops, so do the attacks, interestingly. So it's NOT a matter of the attacker's "principles".

If you want particulars and citations on this scenario I'm describing, go to

So, to wrap up. I'm a Scientologist, I'm happy to be one. My friends, Scientologists or not, are also happy that I'm alive and able to come to them when they are in a jam and effectively help them out.

THAT is the truth about Scienology - thanks for reading this...

Posted by: shrimpmummy | November 21, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Well I'm glad those whacky rumors about silent birth have been cleared up.Now tell us about Operation Snow White,the RPF, and my personal favorite - that wild and crazy Galactic Overlord Xenu and his spacefaring fleet of DC-8's.

Posted by: vinny2 | November 21, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"Now tell us about Operation Snow White,"

You mean Scientology's answer to the Nixon Era's IRS placing them on the IRS' enemies list? Yes, it was quite the Martha Stewart moment, with prison sentences and everything.

Personally, I find the more destructive actions of the old G.O. (e.g. Operation Freakout) and the current actions of OSA, much more disturbing. Actual lives are (and were) being harmed. With Operation Snowhite, the only thing that got hurt was the reputation of the IRS. And then, when caught, the reputation of Scientology of course. The latter still getting mileage (in your mind) to this very day, 30+ years later.

"the RPF,"

An idea from Ken Urquhart (former church member, now practicing/delivering Scientology independently) gone horribly wrong. No question needs to be massively reformed, if not abolished. (Along with most of the Sea Org and the Church.)

" and my personal favorite - that wild and crazy Galactic Overlord Xenu and his spacefaring fleet of DC-8's."

Right up there with the wild and crazy Virgin Mary and her whip-wielding, sword threatening progeny ... who got himself executed with his unorthodox views and behavior.

And MrGrub ... yes, it is a "religion" to many. IMHO, the problem is not that it's a "religion" ... the problem is that the organization that it spawned needs massive reform.

How that gets accomplished is anyone's guess. Fortunately, there are plenty of ex-members of the Organization who are still practicing Scientologists, who recognize and openly discuss the weaknesses of the official organization and its policies. And wish for nothing more than a massive overhaul and reform.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 21, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

To shrimpmummy,

You need to open your eyes. Your organization, and particularly it's leader, is destroying what good you have found in Scientology.

If you want to do Scientology a favor, abandon the abusive and corrupt organization (that's the one that is coercing your membership into bankruptcy with its crush-sales, and creating unthinking staff/SeaOrg with its crush-recruiting and insane stat-driving), and convincing you to say ridiculous things like: All critics of Scientology are being paid by big pharma.

Wake up buddy. Your "church"'s leadership is creating the criticism ... not big pharma.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 21, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Well, I just happened to walk by and, lo and behold, more stuff.

So I was about to say a few more things, but then I remembered the old saying about the skunk, soooooooooo..

I suggest that everyone really read EXACTLY what I wrote - exactly.

Four decades in Scientology. [Yes I know that's not a sentence, I'm being 'literary'].

From my vantage point and experience, reading what these detractors have to say about my religion is like reading a description of my kitchen wallpaper written by someone who never even visited my house!

Again - link: - take a look. Thanks!

Posted by: shrimpmummy | November 21, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

So mummy,

You can go to the website of any religion and see all their history and what they believe, and how they work to help people and it really answers all your questions, and blows holes in criticisms. Right?

So you had a BIG problem, and Scientology helped you with that, and since then you have been helping yourself and others with lots of problems. Very convincing, if I were brain dead! For Xenu's sake, while you were learning how to "know knowledge" in a cult, I spent years in grad school, followed by years of reading books, usually at least one a week.

Forty years and you have the "tools" to lie and say nothing, but like a true brainwashed paranoid, want to explain how Big Pharma is responsible for most of scientology criticism. Among the wide variety of critics of Scientology, we've never heard of one being funded by the pharmaceuticals industry.

Bob Minton, a retired banker/investor funded the Lisa McPherson Trust, and some videos for a few critics, out of his personal money.

Big Pharma stands outside the cult, enticing all these ex-members to leave with big juicy book deals or big wads of cash? I wish!

That hasn't happened. Big Pharma did not fund Paulette Cooper or any other writer that has written the damaging truth about your nutty brainwashing cult.

Unlike your little nothing story, the ex-members stories are full of detail.

Big Pharma is big and powerful like you said. They can take care of themselves. Scientology is a microscopic pimple on their big butt.

And you've never encountered Xenu? It's a big lie right? So much for your credibility. Tommy Davis, cult spokesliar, is on TV/YOUTUBE with Nathan Baca, as Nathan Baca reads the OTIII material in Hubbard's handwriting, and Davis confirms that it is your sacred scripture.

For the other Scientology believer, who classifies Xenu with the Virgin Mary. Nice try. You don't make any sense with that comparison.

Christianity started at a time most people didn't read, hundreds of years before the printing press, and there was no mass communication. It never pretended to be a "science." It spread slowly, in small groups, through stories, and the Bible, which is tiny compared to Hubbard's 40 million words of cockamamie blather and mind trap. So they needed parables and stories of miracles. They are stories of forgiveness, sacrifice, and themes that resonate throughout history.

Talk therapy and release from trauma of past incidents is Freud. Hubbard just ripped off Freud and heaped on the loony. He was a well-documented liar and huckster. Freud was 50 times as brilliant as L. Ron Hubbard. And it was just theories. He didn't claim he found great answers to the last 4 quadrillion years of history, like Hubbard.

I understand that lies are the foundation of Scientology, and that members are trained to lie to themselves and others, and some can never admit that to themselves, or they might crack and go back on drugs, like shrimpmummy.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

As far as Scientology needing to reform, it needs to be dismantled. It has shown time and again, that it is incapable of reform.

Do it in living rooms, like Martyology. Marty was a high level Scientology executive who got sick of David Miscavige. Marty started his own living-room version of Scientology, and runs and underground RR for fleeing cult members, since they get chased and hunted down. Marty knows. He used to hunt down fleeing members for the cult. He described himself as THE TERMINATOR, when he worked for the cult.

The main principle of Martyology -- although he doesn't call it "Martyology" is simple:

Everything that went wrong in scientology, was David Miscavige's fault.

Hubbard was a genius, a great chain smoker and pill popper and none of that matters because he was just human like Marty.

My the way shrimp-person, there is no mention of why Hubbard's 22 year old son Quentin committed suicide. He was a high level scientologist, trapped on his father's ship, hating scientology, and his father to some degree. L. Ron couldn't save his own son! That's a fact.

Here is Ron, Jr., another of Hubbard's sons, talking about the scam his father ran, talking about living with his "MENTALLY ILL" father L. Ron Hubbard:

Get a clue cult people. You are not seeing the "data." Obnose it! (Observe the obvious.)

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

About the above video of L. Ron Hubbard's son Ron DeWolfe (he changed his name from Hubbard, because he didn't want to be associated with his father's fraud).

L. Ron Hubbard's son, Ron Jr. was a diabetic and had some other health problems. Scientology ABSOLUTELY could not have the son of the founder, going on talk shows talking about what a criminal and fraud his father was! This was before his father was even dead. L. Ron was hiding out, doing "research" on farm in Creston, CA.

Does Ron Jr. lie about his father in any respect? Yes, probably, the part about drug running. There's been no documentation supporting that L. Ron ever got into drug running. But everything else is true.

Ron Jr. was kind of a nut, like his father, and they both lied a lot. All the Hubbard children were weird.

The cult paid off Ron Jr., after this show. The amount is unknown but it was probably substantial. They paid him to SHUT UP, and never talk about his father again on TV, and sign an affidavit retracting everything he said, saying it was all lies.

L. Ron Hubbard started going especially nuts and more paranoid as he got older. I think he cut Ron Jr. out of one of his wills, and told him he was going to be cut out, so this was Ron Jr. getting him back for that, and knowing that the cult or his father would have to cough up money just to shut him up.

Let's say all that Ron Jr. is saying here is lies. Even then, should Hubbard the wonderful father, and birth and child rearing expert, who raised his sons Quentin and Ron Jr. steeped in "the tech." Shouldn't he have had a little better results that this?

One son kills himself at 22. The other turns on him. Arthur is a third son who is a painter and alive today, and completely inactive in the cult after his father's death.

What a bizarre, dysfunctional family Hubbard produced. This dysfunction was reflected in David Miscavige and his executives too, most who did whatever David Miscavige says.

For example, Marty Rathbun got into slapping around underlings too, but David Miscavige made him do it. It became a culture of violence.

I find Hubbard's cult ethics, "always attack, never defend" to be really distasteful. But that is what happens when a group is established on lies.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"I find Hubbard's cult ethics, 'always attack, never defend' to be really distasteful. But that is what happens when a group is established on lies."

No McGrug, that is what would happen if a Christian church leader ignored the entire philosophy of Jesus, and forced his flock to follow only the one Jesus quote: "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. ..."

And that is why I used that quote above.

Miscavige -- who forced and bullied his way into his current leadership role -- is the corrupt one, not Hubbard. And just as I could pick and choose quotes and actions from the life of Jesus to paint him as sinister (and do the same thing with the history of the Christian church), it would certainly not give an accurate portrayal of either Jesus or his philosophy. Just as your portrayal of Hubbard doesn't give an accurate picture of him or his philosophy.

That you think Hubbard is "just like Freud" and confuse antiquated and irrelavant Church policy (written in another place under entirely different circumstances) with the actual underlying religious philosophy of Scientology, shows me just how ignorant you are of the entire subject.

And mummy, time to wake up. Your "church" is being led by an incompetent, destructive fool. HE is the one creating all of this animosity towards Scientology. And your support only prolongs it.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 21, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Hey all, you might as well check this out. It could save your life or the life of a loved one. It's a clinical psychiatry study from the Department of Psychiatry, University of Texas, Southwestern Medical Center.

The conclusion it reaches:

"Antidepressants were not statistically superior to placebo or other current standard treatment for bipolar depression."

Here's the link:

Good luck.

Posted by: shrimpmummy | November 21, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Nice artice. Finally some truth instead of insulting lies. Scientologists are everywhere. Those who know us generally like us unless they are afraid of us which is the only reason for some of these crazy attacks. People should ask themselves why someone would be so completely hostile to any religion that does not seek to harm. What are they trying to keep us from finding out?

Posted by: chrisellis24 | November 21, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Nice artice. Finally some truth instead of insulting lies. Scientologists are everywhere. Those who know us generally like us unless they are afraid of us which is the only reason for some of these crazy attacks. People should ask themselves why someone would be so completely hostile to any religion that does not seek to harm. What are they trying to keep us from finding out?

Posted by: chrisellis24 | November 21, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh, call me ignorant of Scientology, PLEASE! I listened to nutty Hubbard flying on amphetamines, lecturing like Charles Mason meets Jerry Falwell, and I thank Xenu I never got involved in this pile of insanity!

Tom Cruise "knows." You "know."

You still haven't given a sane explanation of why Ron Jr. and Quentin Hubbard turned on their own father, L. Ron Hubbard, in such dramatic fashion.

Here is a full length and detailed interview, from Ron Jr. "This is factual." Hubbard's trip to the Van Allen belt, which Hubbard claimed was "factual" was sheer nonsense. But this is a REAL interview. Do you even know the difference?

Did you know the Van Allen belt is warmer than you'd think? (According to nutty Hubbard.)

Ron Jr. was a smart guy too. Why can't you read what he had to say about dear ol' dad.

I'm not going to engage in elliptical theological arguments about other religions vs. Scientology. The facts stand for themselves, and the brainwashing you got as part of your training allows you to change the subject, or just thought-stop. Is that a super power?

Two of Hubbard's sons, raised in Scientology, turned against their own father, and you can't even think why.

Still "entheta" for you?

In a lecture I listened to recently, Hubbard said medical doctors were two years behind Dianetics, but following it closely.

Hogwash! Medical doctors don't give a crap about Dianetics. Just ask any MD what they think of Hubbard's crapsterpiece.

Why don't you just make up anything you want and say "if it's true for you." Ninety-nine out of one hundred of the last Nobel Prize winners in the sciences used Dianetical tools to make their winning breakthroughs, and credit their inspiration to one man, L. Ron Hubbard.

Show me a video of your telekinetic super powers and I'll start Martyology tomorrow.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Correction: s.b. Charles Manson, not "Mason."

While I'm here, here's the bottom line on Martyology, and the rest of the "Independent Scientologists."

It is far superior to the cult. No prison camps, forcing donations out of people, or forcing them higher on the "bridge" if they don't want to go. No chasing down fleeing members. No attempts to harass critics. No child slave labor. No pseudo Navy. No intelligence/propaganda department.

No one is going to stop other people from believing in crazy Hubbard by trying to use reason. It is impossible.

Just as you can't reason anyone away from David Miscavige, since they have been brainwashed to believe anything outside the official cult is losing your eternity, no matter what Hubbard said.

Instead, someone has to find something in their own experience, in order to leave, or to wake up completely.

But here's the big question about Martyology? If scientology gives you tools, to make your life better, why did he not recognize the Miscavige was evil or something, 25 years before he finally did? Scientology is good for nothing, if it can't do that one thing.

And if Black/Reverse Dianetics as practiced by the evil David Miscavige, one tiny man, is more powerful, able to take control of the entire cult, then all of this stuff should be outlawed. Its poisonous and dangerous if one individual can gain control over thousands of cult members.

How about some sympathy for the little tyrant in charge? He was raised in the cult, on Hubbard tech, and he dropped out of high school and doesn't know any better. May it is just "what is true" for him?

Isn't that what your fake religion is all about? Finding what is true for you?

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse the future, refer all Jesus questions to Independent Scientologist Steve Hall, who was Jesus AND Tintoretto in a former life.

David Miscavige leaked this from his auditing files, as a way to shame him. It was published in the in-cult FREEDOM MAGAZINE I believe and/or given to the press.

Why, when a few dozen cult members, at least, think they were Julius Caesar, is it bad that Steve thinks he was Jesus?

Plus, Steve looks like a little bit like Jesus (in art anyway), so it's quite possible, if it's "true for him." After all that's what scientology boils down to, anything is true, if it is true for you.

I think you should be listening to Steve Hall the reincarnation of Jesus. For one thing, he's a much better writer than Marty.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 21, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

MrGrug: "Oh, call me ignorant of Scientology, PLEASE!"

You're ignorant of the subject of Scientology. Go look up the words "strawman" and "red herring". Your questions about Ron Jr. (who Ron's first non-scientology wife raised, not Ron) and Quentin (who didn't "turn on" his father and died under suspicious circumstances) are red herrings. They are irrelavent to understanding the subject.

You don't want to "engage in theological arguments", yet you are worried about Hubbard's description of an "out of body" experience to the Van Allen Belt? And his opinions of MDs in the early 50s?

MrGrug, lots of religious leaders had unorthodox ideas, experiences and beliefs. So what? Ron said lots of things, many worth listening to. Feel free to agree with what you want, and discard the rest -- just as he suggested.

chrisellis wrote: "People should ask themselves why someone would be so completely hostile to any religion that does not seek to harm."

Chris, every time your "church" leadership forces its staff to use crush sales and crush recruitment to the detriment of the individual, it is engaged in harming those individuals (and staff). And as you know, it does this CONSTANTLY. The endless trail of broke former members, not to mention bankruptcies and even suicides tell the tale. Open your eyes.

Every time your "church" leader Miscavige sends out its spokesperson Tommy Davis to lie and cover up for his (Miscavige's) violent and destructive behavior, he is harming you and every one of your fellow scientologists.

Time to wake up and stop supporting the corruption.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 21, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

MrGrug: "David Miscavige leaked this from his auditing files ..."

And you believe him? I'd say get it from Steve himself, before treating it as a fact. Either way, I tend to go with Hubbard on this one:

"An amusing sidelight on past lives is the 'famous person' fixation. This more than anything else has discredited having lived before. There is always some madman 'who was Napoleon,' always some girl 'who was Catherine the Great'. This evidently means that the person, living a contemporary life to a famous figure, was so unsuccessful that he or she 'dubbed in' (imaginary recall) the great personage. A Scientologist who runs into 'Beethoven,' after the preclear has run it for a while, finds the preclear was really the handler of a street piano in that life -- not Beethoven!" -- "Have You Lived Before This Life?", L. Ron Hubbard, 1977.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 21, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

"If scientology gives you tools, to make your life better, why did he not recognize the Miscavige was evil or something, 25 years before he finally did? Scientology is good for nothing, if it can't do that one thing."

Marty Rathbun answers this somewhat on his own blog. My take on it is that it was a combination of Miscavige's worsening condition as the years rolled on (and his having removed all of the "contingency plans" and checks and balances that had been put in place in the re-organization in the late 70s / early 80s), and Marty's -- and any individual's -- holding out hope that Miscavige would improve. Miscavige apparently refused/stopped auditing or counseling as far back as the early 90s. When Marty offered in the early 00's, Miscavige refused. A year or so later, Marty was out of there.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 21, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Washington post for a great article. Nice to have some of the mystery of the 'silent birth' saga cleared up. It's incredible the amount of rumours there are surrounding the subject of Scientology.

I think the best way to find out what it's about is to go and get one of Hubbard's books out of the library and read it. I saw plenty there. That way no one is forcing or coercing you to do anything and you can put that book down any time you want to. Simple really.

And if you want to find unbiased information on all the crazy talk going on here, then try this website I found:
It's not run by the church nor by their antagonists. This is what they say:
" wants to find answers to the questions that are being asked all over the internet about Scientology, Scientologists, the Church of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.... Our goal is to find answers from independent sources, not only from Church of Scientology owned sites or anti-Scientology sites."

The verbal attacks and parries will continue here I assume, but if you're neither a Scientologist nor an avowed anti-Scientologist who just wants to few questions answered, then go to the library or visit the website above.

As for the rest of you kiddies with your rumours and stern faced arguments ... You sound like petulant children doing the 'he said, she said' thing. Play nice will you?
It's not nice to attack anyone's religion, be they Christian, Moslem or Scientologist. If, as has been stated here, the members of Scientology are 'leaving in droves' or dropping out, then why bother getting all hot under the collar about the subject anyway? Why is it so incredibly important to you to slam this religion and attack it with such alarming vehemence? That in and of itself makes me wonder.....
Hmmmmmmmmmm.... now you've really got me thinking.... maybe it's time I follow my own advice and go and get another book out of the library...

Posted by: dragondame | November 22, 2010 3:53 AM | Report abuse

Well, it's very nice that people respect a college flunk out, who in 1950, publishes his new "modern science of mental health" in a pulp called Astounding Science Fiction.

Plus, this "modern" science, has a striking resemblance to Freud's talk therapy, release of traumas in one's past by talking about them. Only Hubbard calls the subconscious, the "reactive mind" and sets out to destroy the reactive mind in his followers.

He adds a crude lie detector called the emeter which measures galvanic response, can later his super nutty "research" says that past lives that happened trillions of years ago, can be accurately dated to the nearest second, using the emeter.

He switches from "pulp sci fi writer" to "unlicensed therapist" to "nuclear physicist," and "religious leader."

You, like Hubbard can be a bouncing ball, a rabbit in a hat, everywhere like air, madder than a hatter, the sanest Thetan on Teegeeack, know your millions of lives on the "whole track."

But hey, to me, it is fishy beginning to now.

And there's not a single follower of Hubbard, who can explain Scientology in a way to make it intelligible to others.

Instead, it is a cult of salespeople, who encourage others to sign up for the trap, to see for themselves. And the trap is expensive!

Reading Hubbard's books doesn't work! I've read Dianetics and better parts of several others and it is wishful thinking claptrap, or plain nuttiness, which WAS the conclusion of any educated sound mind of the 1950's too.

Scientology's "humanitarian" mission:


Take over the government and "clear" the planet of non-Scientologists.

"Dispose of the low-toned, quietly, without sorrow."

I'm sorry. I don't have a lot of respect for totalitarian insane people and their nutty ideas.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Scientology is the Slimfast of religions. Remember when Oprah lost weight on Slimfast and was doing commercials for it?

I like Oprah, and at least she moves on from many of her major mistakes.

Slimfast helped many people lose weight fast, but it also helped many people gain back all the weight they lost, AND GET EVEN FATTER.

Like Slimfast, Scientology promises TOO much. And Hubbard was not able to use Scientology to accomplish what it was supposed to accomplish, IN HIS OWN LIFE.

He wasn't vibrantly healthy. He was a chain smoker, who had to take pain killers after a minor accident on his motorcycle, and he got fat.

He claimed he knew how to control the aging process, matter, energy, space and time. He died at 74, a very sick man, going increasingly insane, unable to even effectively appoint a successor.

Scientology helps some people, but it is by far, not a one diet for all, in a can. And it isn't even a sensible long term diet for the mind.

Hubbard might as well been a 500-lb. guy selling Slimfast, but claiming Slimfast might take a few lifetimes to work.

And if you can believe a promise like that, then you are a candidate for Scientology. And you can believe that everyone you look at, will become a Scientologist because you will it, and other magical thinking.

Tom Cruise believes the world's greatest leaders turn to him, for answers, because they know Scientology has the answers, and in his video the announcer says Tom has introduced LRH tech to over 1.06 billion people on the planet. That's about one sixth of the world's population.

Some of the world's greatest leaders meet with Tom Cruise, because they think it is cool to meet a superstar, someone who is in some movies they may have liked, not because they think Scientology has answers to the world's problems!

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

A Scientologist might assume that when Tom Cruise met with the French President, Sarkozy, the country was introduced to LRH tech, and is well on their way to forming a Scientology Republic?

Sarkozy and his wife (or girlfriend) were charmed by Tom.

In reality, France had a panel that investigates all cults for legitimacy and effectiveness and the French government ruled that Scientology is a fraud just a year or two ago. It operates fraudulently, for trapping people and inflicting bogus pseudo-medical nostrums on them like the EXPENSIVE sauna/vitamin detox. They help people take out loans to pay for the super expensive treatment.

Like Slimfast, this drug detox drives people's energy THROUGH THE ROOF! It is fantastic, unless it isn't. Unless it makes you feel very dragged out. Unless, somewhere down the line you realize you spent your life savings on Scientology claptrap, and took out a loan to buy more.

So France has not fallen to LRH tech, simply because Tom Cruise met with Sarkozy!

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Hubbard adapted scientology claims to whatever would make the most money.

When people realized scientology wasn't curing blindness, homosexuality or the insane, as claimed, he said it was supposed to make the "able more able." It was about "making the sane, more sane." Scientology calls their Orgs "islands of sanity."

This is okay, according to Ghost here, because you have to adapt your claims according to the times, and what is true for you.

The problem with trying to push scientology as a pile of what-have-you today, is that people can read about actual scientologist's experiences, both apostates (former members) and current members.

Where are the attributes of a clear. Once Hubbard claimed a "clear" had a photographic memory.

Read about the goldfish resurrection in Advance Magazine (a cult rag) accomplished by a Scientologist, a true testament to REAL super powers.

I bet you didn't realize but Operating Thetan level scientologists are pretty much controlling all of us, as I write this, except for me.

I'm a warrior in the Marcab Confederacy, working for Xenu, according to Hubbard.

Or, of course, I'm working for "the evil psychiatrists" who helped Xenu the evil galactic warlord, 75 million years ago.

I'm a Suppressive Person, that for sure, because I'm not promoting Scientology! I'm not KSW, and that is so low-toned in their thinking that....

Or more currently, I'm a highly paid shill for "Big Pharma," even if personally, I hope that all parents will explore other avenues that are safe, before resorting to giving their children Ritalin, or even aspirin.

I believe people should get off all the drugs that are hurting more than helping, but it isn't up to me to decide which drugs those are.

I don't "know" in the way that Tom Cruise claims "you just know." Scientology would have me looking up words like "a, to, the, be, I" in a dictionary to make sure I don't have a "misunderstood" which is the only reason for not accepting scientology whole hog.

See, when you don't understand or accept something in Hubbard's black pit of 40 million words, it's because you have to look up all those words in the dictionary, until you do understand. Understand?

Because you have a "misunderstood word."

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Instead of studying Scientology, to see how it can help me, which seems to be the Scientologists' mantra of what everyone should do before they speak a word about Scientology, I've studied the effect of Scientology on others.

Scientologists, independent or otherwise, think that Dr. Lottick M.D., whose son Noah jumped off a roof, clutching the last dollars scientology didn't take him for, should not say a word about Scientology, the beliefs.

Instead, he said a lot in the famous Scientology TIME cover story. He called Scientology a "school for psychopaths."

There is enough history now, enough books written and former and current members telling their stories, that "see for yourself" is just a matter of reading a few thousands pages, which I have done.

Plus, the people who have spend years in it, and are able to articulate their experience, before and after, is much more meaningful to me, than the robots who keep saying the only way to understand scientology is to do it for yourself. As if the only way to understand what it is like to jump off a cliff, is to do that.

Reading and understanding enough to avoid falling in Scientology's trap came intuitively for me.

Volcano on cover. Sci fi guru with all the secret answers. Reverse pyramid where courses get more expensive as you go up. It's a scam!

I didn't believe it then, and it is hard to believe now but many people spend more in a year of Scientology, than an entire four year college education would cost at one of the better State Universities.

When Hubbard started out offering lectures, 1951 (I think), he charged $500 to the first group of eager beavers who wanted to be cured of whatever, or learn to cure mankind of 70% of all diseases. That is well over $5000.

From the beginning, Hubbard saw suckers, and wanted to get rich as fast as he could.

Did you know that Scientology trains workers to recruit others by finding their "ruin." Then the hard sell pressure is put on. They used to show an orientation film that told people they could "walk out that door, and never think about Scientology again," or you could "blow your brains out, or dive off a cliff."

Hubbard approved of this script.

All of his followers, at one point, believe the script that Scientology is worth it. It is worth dropping out of college, to sell Dianetics on the street, because you are saving the planet. And the vast majority of people who ever set foot in an Org, went on to other cuckoo or woke up completely and realized they'd been had.

Also, scientology attracts a percentage of the mentally ill. If they have lots of money, they will get as much as they can, but if they are poor, they are rejected, of course.

It is worth spending your life savings, and taking out loans, to go up their $400,000 to 1,000,000+ bridge to total freedom?

Or, is it worth working 80 hour work weeks for almost nothing, to save the planet with LRH tech?

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

The OSA handlers have obviously pointed to me for my "crazy talk."

Here's actual recordings of L. Ron Hubbard assembled with photos of L. Ron:

You decide if L. Ron and Scientology is deserving of your next trillion years, of galactic devotion.

Scientology Sea Org members sign BILLION YEAR contracts.

What does Scientology claim? It's symbolic. Just like the pack of Kools they used to leave, waiting for L. Ron to come back, and resume his healthful chain smoking.

It's symbolic?

When the Sea Org motto is "We come back."

That means they come back in millions of future lifetimes to Keep Scientology Working, and serve the great chain-smoking genius, mental, physical and spiritual health guru, crazy L. Ron Hubbard.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse


I have read your comments, and here is what I see.
For the record, I am not a Scientologist, I am Muslim (I am sure you will hate me too)

You almost had me believing you up until the point when you said John Travolta was gay, how would you know that for sure? Did you suck his dick recently? And saying you have a reliable source who told you, ya right! By the amount of posts you put here, you don't have a job, and troll the internet full time. I'm sure Johns friends know you! Hahaha

I do not know much about the Scientology religion. You complain the Scientologist attack others! What! Are you blind? YOUR the only one doing the attacking! The Scientologist posting here have said nothing hateful.

Whatever GruB looser!

I stick with my Muslim faith, and religious freedom for all!!!

Posted by: kimberly9 | November 22, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse


Your vulgar language -- after claiming being a Muslim -- is a give away you are a Scientologist. On Huffington Post, you pretend to be a Hindu, and write almost an identical blurb.

Also your spelling! LOL

You call me a "looser!" You're are going to need to word clear that dear. You meant "loser."

Also, in the same little post, you use the word YOUR instead of you meant, "you're." Other mistakes too.

I know basic spelling, grammar etc. eludes a person brought up with a Hubbard STUDY TECH education....or did you just come straight through from the cult's drug rehab program.

BTW, I'm retired, and enjoy devoting what time I can to Scientology criticism.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Scientolgists working for the Scientology Office of Special Affairs try to paint all critics as "religious haters."

Inside the cult, we are labeled SPs and meant to be destroyed, "by any means possible," as long as they don't get caught.

Thus, we have Kimberly9, in her juvenile effort to label me as a religious hater.

My parents were both religious. I was brought up in a faith, and whatever I think, religion is here to stay. It helps many people, and at times it leads to division.

However, since Hubbard said his cult was NOT a religion when it began, I'll agree with him on that point. It is a criminal brainwashing scam.

Here's where Kimberly got her crude what L. Ron said upon the death of his 22 year old son Quentin:

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Also, to mention another interesting point, related to this article, about how I know John Travolta is gay/bi, or not exactly the "perfect" family man.

There is a book being written by a person who frequently saw him in a gay gym's sauna, in action. Even before that, same as Rock Hudson, there were many accounts and incidents.

But, even that aside, more than one scientology executive, has mentioned that David Miscavige has read Travolta's confidential auditing files, and made running jokes about his homosexuality.

Worse, Mark (Marty) Rathbun (former #2 man in the cult) has mentioned that David Miscavige has a fixation on accusing Sea Org underlings of doing gay sexual acts, or of wanting to. That is his way of humiliating his underlings. A dozen ex-members have corroborated that.

Obviously, sweet Kimberly has picked up on that habit as a way to humiliate me. Doesn't bother me a bit. I'm not in the Sea Org. (LOL)

I'm not making this up and anyone who has followed Scientology and recent defections knows this about David Miscavige's being unable to resist talking about Travolta and Cruise.

BTW, Cruise is a mystery. Marty Rathbun and no one in the cult has mentioned that he is gay, just that he has a very unusually close relationship with the cult's tiny leader, David Miscavige.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

MrGrug wrote:
"You call me a 'looser!' You're are [sic] going to need to word clear that dear. You meant 'loser.'"

LOL. Ah, the irony knows no bounds.

Have a nice retirement, MrGrug.

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 22, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Sharp catch there Carl. I caught it myself right after I pressed 'post.' But, I am not embarrassed about the level at which I'm able to express my thoughts and points.

I've made a lot of typos and errors in my posts but they aren't the kind that show lack of integrity (Like Kimberly pretending (s)he's a Muslim -- I know (s)he is doing it all for Ron) and then calling me a loser.

I'm a winner! I'm happily retired, and I'm not in an insane space cult.

Big Pharma will just have to cut my pay check I guess. Can't they take it out of Marty's instead.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

You know what is fascinating about the Independent Scientology movement? You've got your work cut out for you.

The cult has so much money, and David Miscavige, is no doubt determined to ruin Marty Rathbun, and go to great lengths to do it.

Every time a person escapes, how does Marty know they aren't a plant by Miscavige? That is, someone who is only pretending to leave. I mean this person could even donate money to his cause, to ingratiate himself.

Unless Marty has spies in the cult, or people who are sympathetic to him.

All they need to do is get Miscavige on audio (or video) throwing a fit...

Hopefully, with the web, and Martyology, members will do something BEFORE they leave. That is, get some kind of evidence of Miscavige's brutality.

Three stages of Martyology:

1. Everything that went wrong in Scientology is David Miscavige's fault.

2. Maybe not ALL of it was his fault.

3. OMX (Oh my Xenu), L. Ron was nuts!

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Three stages of McGrugology:

1. Everything that went wrong in Scientology was L. Ron Hubbard's fault.

2. Maybe not ALL of it was his fault.

2. OMR (Oh My Retirement), I've been spending all of my waking retired moments obsessing over Scientology and I have no life!

Posted by: CarlSagansGhost | November 22, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

L. Ron Hubbard telling his followers what Thetans don't like. Being spat out of the butt of "the obscene dog."

It takes years of study, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and much brain scrambling, before a Thetan is ready to understand these stories.

Explain them? Never!

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

No Carl, that was your angle when you were in Miscavige's cult.

Why are you here, at all? No one in the cult is reading this, except the few OSA people opening several accounts.

Members of the public are not going to join Martyology. That is strictly for the brainwashed in recovery.

You wouldn't believe my life if I told you, how exciting it has been. It has settled down now, and I like that too.

Should I just post recipes, like cult OSA used to do on Usenet?

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Hubbard on Islam.

It's an implant, he says.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 22, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Hey, this will probably be my last comment. I'd like to write about how the OSA (Office of Special Affairs) spams articles about Scientology in efforts to control the public's perception.

Let's use this article as an example. The author writes a Celebrity/pop culture blog, and did some research, corrected a misconception about Hubbard baloney, but it isn't exactly Woodward/Bernstein.

Being a good writer, with a sense of irony, she managed to include the weird mixed metaphor quote of Hubbard. Gasoline and babies; that's Hubbard.

She also was skeptical about the importance of the meaning of words, to a newborn. (I agree, if anything one might conceive of noise or screaming as being more a traumatic, than the actual words used.)

So, the OSA descends, they are waiting to "handle" all scientology news.

Here are the techniques they use:

Several messages will be like this is some well-wishing comment, to send Kelly and John happy wishes about their baby, or the author thanks for the article.

Spin the article to be heroic, by the author, to have shone a light on the truth, the great advice of L. Ron Hubbard or what they currently claim on their website (or through a cult rep) about silent birth, and corrected the misinformation, about this wonderful "wholesome" organization. After all, what's is THAT wrong with silent birth. I myself think it might be a good idea in some respects, at least after the baby is outside the birth canal, in the open air and able to hear.

Then a person will write about what Scientology has done for them, liked saved their life. It is usually told in the vaguest terms.

Anyone who is critical is confronted. Scientology is not a "turn the other cheek" religion and they say that up front.

So they brand critics as: "religious haters," "terrorists," "having no knowledge of Scientology," "making up lies because critics hate and want everyone to be drug addicts and criminals," and internally, they are indoctrinated to believe we are all hiding crimes. (Like "bad thoughts about Hubbard?"

Hubbard taught that when a person criticizes anything about Scientology it means they are hiding crimes in their past.

After all, why else would anyone criticize people are here to save the planet, a man with all the answers to the mysteries of the universe?

Casual readers, will get bored if they read the first ten comments and find that most of them say nothing like "Thank you so much for this article, all the best to John and Kelly on the birth of their child."

You can really gag on that kind of fluff can't you?

That's all an effort so people won't read the more critical and intriguing comments, the ones that are more objective and true.

Posted by: MrGrug | November 23, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

It's done! Congrats to Kelly and John! I am curious to find out if it was a Silent Birth, as you described it.

Posted by: LouanneLee | November 24, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

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