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McCain: MoveOn Should Be Thrown Out of the Country

At a campaign event in Hudson, N.H., Thursday night, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) responded to MoveOn.org's "General Betray Us" ad by saying the liberal activist group should be "thrown out of the country." [See video of McCain's comments below]

McCain's fellow presidential candidate, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, submitted a full page ad to the New York Times on Thursday attacking Democratic candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) over the MoveOn ad. As reported on washingtonpost.com's The Trail blog:

In the ad, Giuliani accuses Democrats of "orchestrated attacks on General Petraeus," and says Clinton's comment about needing to suspend disbelief was a "character attack" on the general.

For his part McCain has taken to carrying around a blown-up laminated poster of the original MoveOn ad, which he uses to denounce MoveOn.org at campaign stops.

VIDEO | McCain To MoveOn: Get Out

By washingtonpost.com Editors |  September 14, 2007; 6:37 PM ET John McCain
Previous: Reaction to Iraq Debate | Next: MoveOn: Rudy Betrayed Us Too


Please email us to report offensive comments.

McCain needs to take some meds for memory, particularly the names and mailings Bush sent out about his wife during the 2000 election.

The Republicans should be grateful to MoveON. If the Democrats were left with nothing but MSM and the government, that is without MoveOn , activists and blogs, no telling what their anger would cause.

Democrats do not take lightly to tearing their country apart nor to making freedom a dirty word. No they don't.

Posted by: Maddie In Florida | September 14, 2007 7:40 PM

Yes. Thrown them out of the country! Anyone else who does not agree with the Republicans -- Thrown them out of the Country.

Our military is not protecting our first amendment so people can talk against our government! You can't just make a political ad in this country saying the Iraq war is unjustified! If you do you should be thrown out of the country.

Posted by: SS | September 14, 2007 7:55 PM

The proof of the betrayal by Petraus/Crocker will be their source of income after they finish their service. Having said that, they are immoral for not having taken the opportunity to save lives but chose instead to save Bush. Republican Senators are also immoral for failing to save lives instead of trying to save this failed and vile White House.

Bush, Cheney et.al. continue to ABUSE the military. They should be impeached and perhaps jailed - not only for lying to us about Iraq and abusing the military, but for their attacks upon our nation's Constitution. It is unimportant if they are convicted given the Republican cowards in the Senate; but they should be impeached.

A war that we did not need; A civil war that the military cannot settle; An irreplaceable fortune in American lives lost (forget the money - it's just money - but you might ask "where did the money go?"). What is wrong with you people?

Are you stupid, ignorant, immoral or a combination thereof?

God bless America. God bless our military and God bless those who speak truth to power like Moveon.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2007 9:08 PM

The proof of the betrayal by Petraus/Crocker will be their source of income after they finish their service. Having said that, they are immoral for not having taken the opportunity to save lives but chose instead to save Bush. Republican Senators are also immoral for failing to save lives instead of trying to save this failed and vile White House.

Bush, Cheney et.al. continue to ABUSE the military. They should be impeached and perhaps jailed - not only for lying to us about Iraq and abusing the military, but for their attacks upon our nation's Constitution. It is unimportant if they are convicted given the Republican cowards in the Senate; but they should be impeached.

A war that we did not need; A civil war that the military cannot settle; An irreplaceable fortune in American lives lost (forget the money - it's just money - but you might ask "where did the money go?"). What is wrong with you people?

Are you stupid, ignorant, immoral or a combination thereof?

God bless America. God bless our military and God bless those who speak truth to power like Moveon.

Posted by: George | September 14, 2007 9:09 PM

ok fine

Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2007 9:10 PM

The Straight Talk Express, running full-bore on all cylinders! McCain sure is a weird guy.

Posted by: H5N1 | September 14, 2007 9:11 PM

I personnaly don't like the "Betray Us" ad; I don't think it adds anything to the discussion about Iraq and the war on terrorism (if that is, in fact, what the war is about) but the issue is not an advertisement that is a play of words on the name Petraeus. The issue is the war in Iraq, the Middle East in general, and whether we are succeeding or not, can succeed or not, and the disposition of our armed service members. To spend considerable political capital and time discussing the ad is using time that can be better spent. What is interesting, however, is the considerable time and effort Republicans (and others) are spending on a play on words of a an administration spokesman (which is what General Petraeus is, as the head of the U.S. military mission in Iraq) and a person who's job is to determine how to succesfully complete the mission the Commander in Chief gave him, but who, not ironically, had no problem about Swift Boat ads when they were directed against a sitting U.S. Senator, a purple heart recipient, and a person (for that matter() who served in combat while these same persons were taking exceptions from military service. Better we concentrate on serius issues, rather than concentrate on a play on words, not matter who's name is played upon.

Posted by: Dungarees | September 14, 2007 9:49 PM

Moveon.org and dailykos are the best weapons in the GOP's arsenal.

Posted by: Q-bert | September 14, 2007 10:02 PM

damn peculiar no one but the select few that seems to be on TV share this backing of a VERY misleading general indeed.

More like General Fillet us

General Biday Us ?

yeah kinda like that you moonfaced pudge McCain, oh yeah John, the cat is OUT of the bag on your RIGGED Market scene in Iraq- any idea what happened later that afternoon Mr McCain after you and your security goons left ?

Yeah, right, you oughta go walk down ANY street in Iraq McCain, if you think General Biday Us is even 1/100 not off his rocker for LYING -

Just because you put on a miltiary uniform doesn't mean you ahve any integrity, we ALL know about Ollie North McCain - you Moonfaced PUDGE!

Go get back on your damn prednisone, and while you are at it - LIE to the American people about your medical history you're not telling them that would OTHERWISE DISQUALIFY YOU YOU MOONFACED PUDGE!

the blood spilled so far in on YOUR hands McCain along with your DOLT pals Rumzy and Bush and Tennet, seems everyone is deciding to go on Vacation McCain.

Hey, what's that Tommy Franks up to - gee , I see he joined the Board of Directors for Bank of America McCain.

Yeah, you're all coming down you THIEVES.

I don't even think I'll dignify you by using your name anymore Mc Mic Mic - wahtever it is.

Posted by: Bushes_Worst_Nightmare | September 14, 2007 10:51 PM

McCain is running for President?

Posted by: Phil | September 14, 2007 10:53 PM

I though that senators swore to uphole the Constitution of the the United States. Does that also mean that they are to uphold the Bill of Rights. Doesn't the first one include freedom of speech? I am a Democrat who has been opposed to the war from the beginning, and I don't agree with moveon.org's ad, but I defend their right to say what they said. McCain is out of line in suggesting that this group should leave the country. He, and Guiliani, are playing to the GOP base, and McCain should know better.

Posted by: marmac | September 14, 2007 11:41 PM

McCain, your 15 minutes were used up more than 7n years ago. You are so past tense that the Daily Show has you call in on the phone instead of appear in person. Despite having been the victim of a Karl Rove character assassination in South Carolina in 2000, you have willingly swilled the Bush Kool-Aide. It's amazing what a man with the fortitude to endure the Hanoi Hilton for several years will stoop to when pornographic Republican ideologues dangle the carrot of a POTENTIAL presidential nomination in front of him.

Posted by: Mister Methane | September 15, 2007 12:01 AM

Didn't McCain (see photo http://wonkette.com/politics/mccain/john-mccain-old-and-in-the-way-296233.php ) also criticise John Boehner for say the deaths of over 3,000 soldiers is a small price to pay?
Why can't the Post tell us that?

Posted by: Ted | September 15, 2007 12:23 AM

McCain has a better chance of becoming President than Obama and Hillary. Even if they were on the same ticket.

Posted by: Digitalman08 | September 15, 2007 12:42 AM

The name calling of Petraeus is misguided and only provides the distraction the Republicans so desperately want to hide from the real issue.

Petraeus has a crappy and sheer impossible job of which he in my opinion is trying to make the best possible. It's disputable whether any major progress is made, but Petraeus is at least substantially more honest and sincere than the clowns he replaced.

Furthermore, a general does not decide policy and is subject to the whims of the commander in chief. Anger should hence not be directed against him, but against Bush and a congress that absolutely fails to grow even a shadow of a spine.

McCain is finished anyway, so no need to waste energy and time on his absurd opinion.

Posted by: Lagging | September 15, 2007 12:42 AM

I second marmac's comments, except that I thought the MoveOn ad was clever and punchy - and got lots of attention. I think the point of the ad was the betrayal of the general's own assessment of the situation in Iraq - It was widely perceived before the hearing that he would be saying just what this administration wanted him to say. As clever as the Republicans are, their hubris forces them to make mistakes. They chose the messenger and trumpeted the fact. This president's tract record does not inspire trust - one is always suspicious and always waitiing for the second shoe to drop. The general was a willing victim.

Posted by: jblee | September 15, 2007 12:55 AM

Did anyone see the Daily Show this week, they did a series of clips starting with Petraeus saying he hadn't shared his testimony with anyone in the Pentagon or the White House, and then showed multiple speeches where Bush said the exact same things as Patraeus. The funny thing is how no one has questioned the citations in the MoveOn ad that prove Petraeus was misleading us. Also its interesting that MoveOn who has one of the most powerful communications departments has been shut out by the major media from making their case because they have deemed their ad as tasteless. If that's not censorship what is, so for McCain and his "No Surrender/Straight Talk Express 2" to forget about the Constitution who he and his forebearers have sworn and died to uphold isn't much of a surprise. But hey, if you don't see it and you think everything in this country is going as it should, then you all should start the Constitutional amendment so Bush can run again and finish his righteous mission from God.

Posted by: RCD | September 15, 2007 1:44 AM

The MoveOn ad was legitimate. I agree with its intent. However, agree or not, it is freedom of speech, and even Democrats cannot cope with such an outrage as actually utilizing this freedom.

Posted by: Staggo Lee | September 15, 2007 1:46 AM

Let me repeat: living with democracy can be more difficult than fighting for it. Thrown out of the country? F#!$ McCane. It's not his tired, old self will even get the Reduhblican nomination. Pathetic.

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 2:59 AM

correction: It's not (like)...

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 3:00 AM

McCane's rightwing-extremist rhetoric is graceful. Does that mean he should be thrown out of the country? For those who support freedom and the U.S. Constitution-no. For those tired, old Senators who make reactionary comments to appease rightwing-extremist Republicans?-yes. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Without, you might as well throw away the U.S. Constitution. That seems to be what radical Republicans like Bitt Romney and McCane, want.

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 3:03 AM

graceful==disgraceful. Maybe I'll try using the preview option. Btw, f### John McCane

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 3:05 AM

yes senator..

moveon.org should be thrown out.

just as the shrimpboatvetsforinjustice.org in 2004 should have been protected according to george cheerleading fool bush's admin said back then.

don't you remember senator mccain? you don't remember bush refusing to denounce the absurd allegations by the shrimpboatvets in 2004 for their bullsh*t ads smearing senator kerry?

very selective memory john...


Posted by: johnmccainssoul | September 15, 2007 3:11 AM

Generals and politicians tend to forget something: they're on the taxpayers' payroll. Arizona was the last state to make Martin Luther King's birthday a holiday, so I don't expect it to vote out tired, old McCane. That said, In 2006--the people spoke. Considering the number of Republicans in Congress who are stepping down or not running in '08---most of them are getting the picture. The Republican party has become so extremist that it no longer represents average Joes who work for a living. Next year, expect Dems to take the White House and have moderate to huge pickups in Congress. The Republican Party ceased being the party of Lincoln half a century ago.

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 3:12 AM

response to: (Digitalman08 | September 15, 2007 12:42 AM)

I beg to differ. Obama doesn't have a shot in hell. Hillary will probably be on the Dem ticket - either at the top or bottom. She's polarizing, but she doesn't have most of the negatives that McCain has. McCain lost a lot of support when he lost to George McChimp and grabbed his ankles for Liberty University.

Posted by: BlueDoe | September 15, 2007 3:16 AM

If John McCain is a "maverick," then George W. Bush has Einstein's IQ.

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 3:28 AM

It's a little bit funny: Mitt Romney and John McCain continue to make unfounded, reactionary comments, in order to appeal to rightwing-extremist Republicans. This perpetuates the Republican party's historical support of fascism. It has been well documented that the families of Karl Rove, George W. Bush, and Arnold Schwarzenegger supported the Nazi party during WW2. How would McCain spin that as patriotic? Republicans love freedom of speech...until you say the "wrong" thing.

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 3:47 AM

Gee, that's a mighty bold statement for someone who wants to be President. I guess McCain will load all 3.2 million MoveOn members onto the Straight Talk Express and deport them to Mexico. If they hop the border, would a President McCain ask for amnesty for them?

To me, McCain's anger seemed a bit disproportionate. Could it be that he's really still mad at MoveOn for this:


I would think that someone like John McCain who claims to be such a straight shooter would appreciate a group that presents their message without the candy coating. Maybe he's been snuggling with George Bush so long that
they're starting to sound the same, just like an old married couple.

Posted by: JW | September 15, 2007 4:01 AM

Does anyone else remember McCain's shameless denouncing of the U.S. when he was a prisoner of war in N. Vietnam . A real hero would never have done that. His memory is failing,very selective,or both.He is a pathetic little man. Bombing villages from 40,000 feet is neat and clean. It's so much easier to kill your enemy from a distance and not see the horror of war.He acted like a whipped dog after the character assassination Bush's people did to him in the preliminaries a few years ago.He could hardly wait to run over and lick his master's boots. Every person that joins the service or goes to war is not a hero nor are they necessarily our finest,brightest, or our bravest.That is a quality that must be earned.I understand that our people in the military must follow orders,but an illegal order does not and should not be obeyed.We still joke at how the Germans would say,"I'm just following orders", when they where on trial for war crimes. McCain is unfit to be president and his foreign policy is more of the same. What would happen if the citizens of this country would show the world that when our leaders lie and and defy the Constitution and the laws of our country that they are brought up on charges and impeached.The people of the U.S. could show the world community that we where lied to and highjacked our country by leading us into a war that should never have been and these leaders will be punished.Now , that would show how democracy works. What would the Islamic world think when they could watch as we put the people that lied and led the unprovoked attack of sovereign nations on trial. The terrorists are afraid of the U.S. because of our occupation of their lands.If I were Iran I would be very,very concerned and fearful of an U.S. invasion of Iran .Fearing this invasion would insure that nuclear weapons would have to be built to deter any U.S. attack. Iran is modern country and like it's neighboring countries should be allowed nuclear technology as Pakistan,India,Israel,Russia to name the obvious.

Posted by: notmyfatherscountry | September 15, 2007 4:06 AM

What I find funny about this situation is that McCain is playing to his base. The funny thing is why do they need to have their candidates lie to them. No one other than conservatives believe McCain. Fortunately, they don't have enough votes to elect him. I hope he keeps playing to that base. When Romney and Thompson finally take that away, he might start speaking the truth. I take that back, I don't think he cares about the truth. Someone once said the "Truth" is the first casualty of War. A prime example.

Posted by: Richard | September 15, 2007 5:45 AM


Posted by: oragar | September 15, 2007 6:01 AM

Not only is McCain a crazy old coot, he's an un-American crazy old coot. The right to dissent is a fundamental part of our way of life. Personally, I think McCain should be thrown out of the country.

Posted by: Helena Montana | September 15, 2007 6:26 AM

I notice that in the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal presidential poll (http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm), they're not even bothering to include McCain in the hypothetical general election matchups. So maybe he's the one who got thrown out of the country.

Posted by: john brisker | September 15, 2007 6:41 AM

McCain is a nutcase has-been, and should be treated as such. Now that he's calling for MoveOn to be thrown out of the country, I hope he would call for the same for Boehner "death of soldiers is a small price"; Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Michael Savage, mAnn Coulter, Bill O'Reilly; and, oh, by the way the swiftboaters and Murdoch and his fox noise propaganda network!

What an idiot to think that freedom of speech only applies to reich wingers, gop neocons attack dogs and their mouthpieces in the media! McCain who did not have the balltitude to condemn the swiftboaters in 2004 does not have the moral authority to criticize the MoveOn's ad. Besides, as long as Petraeus is wearing the uniform, he is a public servant, not a republican stooge to be defended by rank repuglican hypocrites!

Not that Petraeus did not have a choice. He could have turned down the promotion and assignment bush gave him. But again, didn't his immediate superior call him a sychophant and worse! Where's the repuglican outrage?

As for that chickenhawk draft-dodging, adulterous, two-timing Giulliani, the less said about him the better.

Posted by: Rankhypocrites | September 15, 2007 7:03 AM

John McCain will defend no one's right to say what they think. That is the basic tenet of the repubican value system.

Posted by: sean Watkins | September 15, 2007 7:05 AM

So let me get this right. McCain and his ilk, who already want to toss out 11 million illegal aliens, now want to add 3 million Moveon members to the pile? Why stop there, how about we throw out all the gays, blacks and athiests? Oh wait, how about any nonchristians? And feminists too, Limbaugh hates feminists so we should get rid of them. Geez.

Posted by: Barbara | September 15, 2007 7:14 AM

Moveon.org is irrelevant. That's why Karl Rove and White House spokesmen - like Tony Fratto - and Bushie media - always like to point to them as representative of Democrats. But the seven active duty soldiers who wrote a recent New York Times op-ed are very relevant:
( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opinion/19jayamaha.html?ei=5070&en=10c7f4155337e9ab&ex=1189742400&pagewanted=all )

Michael Ware: "Let me just refer to this, what the president said, that, if America were to be driven out of Iraq, extremists of all strains would be emboldened. They are now. Al Qaeda could gain new recruits and new sanctuaries. They have that now. Iran would benefit from the chaos and be encouraged in its efforts to gain nuclear weapons and dominate the region. It is now.

"Iraq would face a humanitarian -- humanitarian crisis. It does now. And that we would leave our children a far more dangerous world. That's happening now."

Andersen Cooper then re-catapulted for Ware Bush's quote about how "ordinary life is beginning to return."

What he didn't mention is that Bush has forced millions of Iraqi women and children into Senator David Vitter (Republi-can)-style prostitution and human trafficking. At least Senator Craig (Republican) didn't have to pay for it! Senator Vitter (Republican - The State Formerly Containing New Orleans) continues to soil the Senate while neighborhoods here in Baghdad have been ethnically cleansed.

WARE: "Absolutely. And if by the -- if the president means by ordinary life, families essentially living locked up in their homes, in almost perpetual darkness, without refrigeration, or perhaps constantly struggling -- struggling for ever more expensive gas to run generators, if he means waiting in their homes, wondering if government death squads will drag them off and torture and execute them, if he means living in sectarian, cleansed neighborhoods where people who were your friends have had to flee, if he's talking about living in communities that are protected by militias, then, yes, life has returned to ordinary."

The Unarmored Humvee Amputees for Truth send their prayers and blessings for the safe return of Buddhika Jayamaha, Army specialist, Wesley D. Smith, sergeant, Jeremy Roebuck, sergeant, Omar Mora, sergeant, Edward Sandmeier, sergeant, Yance T. Gray, staff sergeant, and Jeremy A. Murphy, staff sergeant. Two of the seven active duty soldiers who wrote a recent New York Times op-ed:
( http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opinion/19jayamaha.html?ei=5070&en=10c7f4155337e9ab&ex=1189742400&pagewanted=all )
expressing a critical perspective on the war were killed in Baghdad on Monday. We thought that only happened to Bush's critics on American soil! The unchecked assassins in the covert White House should be sure of one thing; Pat Tillman hates you.

Posted by: Singing Senator | September 15, 2007 7:38 AM

I hate the "BETRAY US" ads. My question is this. Why are all of them p_ssed at Move On when all they do is BETRAY US? There is not a person on either ticket that has earned one VOTE from us. I see a day, in the near future, that we will have two systems or tiers. Rich and Poor! We, the working middle class can never keep any form of living with a Federal Debt with a Communist Nation, (CHINA), open borders, Mexican trucks, and AMNESTY for breaking into and STEALING what few jobs are left.

Posted by: rickrack | September 15, 2007 8:15 AM

All the focus on Petraeus removes the focus from Bush : the military has a civilian Commander in Chief, just as the founders of the county intended. The General can't make up for the incompetence of the President. Leading the country to war for a lie is an impeachable offense, Bush is the one who should be thrown out of the country

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 8:19 AM

McCain is like a lot of conservatives. He believes in "freedom" but only if you don't use it. Did he sit in a prison in Hanoi all that time to defend a freedome we can't use? Conservatives betray us all the time, including McCain.

Posted by: Paul Nolan | September 15, 2007 8:38 AM

And lets not forget Kerry and the swiftboat ad.
And lets not forget Harry Ford Jr. ad that attack him with racial undertone.



Posted by: darson1 | September 15, 2007 8:51 AM

Move On needs to Move On.
They just hurt the Democrats and are partly to blame for W getting re-elected last time. Wake up you idiots!

Posted by: Bart | September 15, 2007 9:01 AM

Hunter Thompson once said: "How low does a man have to stoop to become president?"

John McCain is doing a pretty good job of answering that question...after what Bush/Rove did to him in South Carolina in 2000 it boggles the mind that he remains palsy-walsy with the Shrub but throws a hissy-fit over the notion of someone challenging the Petraeus/Crocker dog-and-pony show trotted out specifically to pull Dumbya's nuts out of the fire. For shame, John...apparently your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2007 9:13 AM

People have really short memory. The insult thown on folks who have served the nation with life is not limited to the General but also to (a few notable ones)

Mr McCain, Max Cleland and Mr Kerry. The most humiliating was that of Max Cleland and I am not sure if the Vast Right Wing Conspirator ever apologized for the attacks. What do you say? All are the same . All have forgotten that the constitution begins with

"We the people.........."

It is indeed sad times.

Posted by: R. Nathan | September 15, 2007 9:27 AM

McCain couldn't find his voice when bush and Republican buddies tarred and feathered Max Cleland in Georgia, couldn't find his voice when the Texas swift boaters backed by bush and buddies contributors attacked another veteran, John Kerry. He couldn't even find his voice when bush and buddies attacked his military experience in Vietnam. Say what you want, McCain shot himself in the arse with his stance on Iraq and now can't find a way to back out of it. There is no disrespect in what I'm about to say. McCain under went an experience as a POW that no one would want to be part of and did it in a heroic fashion and is to be admired for this. However, while his actions should to be remembered with pride, they do not make him a military expert or to challenge others right to express because he disagrees with it when he has in the past, ignored the same type of retoric when it suited his needs at the time. This may have been a man at one time who voted and worked to protect the needs of all the people. No more, his only concern is his political base and desire to get elected. Just another office seeker who'll use any thing to get elected.

Posted by: Ken | September 15, 2007 9:34 AM

MoveOn needs to put up an ad quoting Admiral William Fallon, who called Petreus an " ass kissing little chicken sh*% ". What would the flag wrappers do then, call Fallon
" unpatriotic "? Fallon saw that Petreus was carrying water for Bush instead of making decisions based on what is best for the troops and the security of our country.

Posted by: Tim | September 15, 2007 9:38 AM

How can a presidential candidate in america advocate denial of freedom of speech. That comment alone should disqualify him from running for, or holding office. He is a disgrace to an already suspect political process. What a nazi.

Posted by: Hank | September 15, 2007 9:59 AM

Free Speech is Free Speech! McCain has to have lost a screw. I always thought him smarter than this. Throw them out of the country. The MoveOn ad is so tame it's incredible they even got noticed. They only say what was already known by anyone who cares to read. The American People are being duped by this President. McCain Has made worse criticism in Senate Chambers. So someone comes up with a catchy phrase for exactly what is happening. We throw them out! Give me a break!

Posted by: Parrish | September 15, 2007 10:33 AM

I wonder if "Mr. Straight Talk" has bothered to read the First Amendment of the Constitution, or understands that the citizenry isn't supposed to remain supine in the face of government deception. Heaven forbid we question the war; let's simply attack its critics.
The thrust of the ad was not to accuse the general of treason, or impugn his honor--it was to point out that he is the beard for the Administration's failed policies. And that his responsibility is to the citizens first, and the President second. We are not supposed to follow blindly, as you have, Mr. McCain.
McCain has drunk deeply from the Bush Kool Aid and embraced his former foe, pandering along and caving when indignation fails--remember the Military Commissions Act. anyone? or the ridiculuos walk thru the Baghdad market? Rant on, your honor is diminished every time you spew this kind of nonesense into the public discourse.

Posted by: bklyndan | September 15, 2007 10:47 AM

Tell IMUS about FREE SPEECH while you are B_TCHING!!

Posted by: rickrack | September 15, 2007 11:02 AM

very interesting....

so Bush plays the "race card," on McCain in 2000 and costs McCain the presidency...

bush leads him on to believing that bush would support him in 2008.... so McCain gets on his knees in front of Falwell and kisses his papal ring of RIGHTWING ARYAN NATION family values...

and thinks that he McCain represents AMERICANS?

McCAIN represents flabby whitemen that take advantage of other people and call it patriotism.

Move on.org is the only one with balls at the podium with McCain....he is a castrated little sheep trying to get us to feel his pain...

talk to a legless vet McCain, let's see if you can feel their pain? losing their legs for george to get some oil money?

how stupid are you?


Posted by: so McCain is talking to gawd now too... | September 15, 2007 11:13 AM

Look - Petraeus is a now a politician. That makes him ripe for criticism, whether he likes it or not. All this carping about the Move-On ad only proves the utter immorality and double standards of the Right in this country. They are truly scary.

Posted by: Rob Levine | September 15, 2007 11:27 AM

Any presidential candidate that advocates the expulsion of a group for simply opposing the government is a dangerous dangerous man. McCain is becoming more fascist by the day. As others have pointed out, he certainly didn't object to the swiftboating campaign against Kerry, and he was dead silent while Max Cleland, a war hero and triple amputee was politically savaged by a campaign of outright lies, as was John Murtha, a Purple Heart winner.

The GOP is becoming more totalitarian every day and if we keep electing Republicans, we shouldn't be surprised to wake up one day in an America where government critics are 'disappeared' and American citizens are under constant surveillance, being watched for the slightest sign of disloyalty, and the Bill of Rights is set aside in favor of The State and The Party. We're already well on our way to that kind of America and McCain is cheerleading us on the way to fascism.

Posted by: windrider | September 15, 2007 11:58 AM

Folks, I get really sick of the way you all take things out of context-But, that just seems to be the Libbie thing to do!

He is refering to the Leaders of the Socialist Group!

Now, I just wish the hypocritical fool would wake up to the fact that La Raza is worse!

McClown, the proper action is a Lawsuit for SLANDER!

THAT, will send them running faster than empty rhetoric and posing!

I am unfortunately old enough to be able to understand how all of the Anti-Americanism began. As a Kid, I learned to HATE a Country that I felt BETYRAYED me and many of my peers. What I find IMPOSSIBLE to believe, is now many of these same Peers-President "I did not Inhale", and President "That is none of your Business" are two very good examples!

As I had to watch my parents fork over very needed BIG BUCKS to sleazy Lawyers, to get their son off the hook for having been caught with a substance just about EVERYONE I KNOW has INHALED, because some other Sleazy Lawyers made it a crime to unfortunately possess, I learned the true meaning of HATE and RESENTMENT!

It began what I consider my Political Activities!

My Political Enemy-Our Government!

Look back Folks, and you will find that the roots of all of the Counter Government Movements share the same Birthplace!








BEAM ME UP!-I could really use a stiff shot of some Romulan Ale!

Posted by: RAT-The | September 15, 2007 12:23 PM

Sorry for the Logic Error.

What I was getting at(Really need to proof read my rants) is that these peers are in control, and still perpetuating the crime!
The crime is what is being done to the citizens, NOT what the citizens are doing!

As Bushie the Catatonic Brain Dead Chimp said-It is not any of your Business government!

IF, Drugs are bad-ALL drugs are bad. Not just the ones some crackpot back in the 30's decided to turn all his prohibition officers that lost their purpose, after!

It has been a very bad perpetuation of bogus Policing ever since!

Idea! Leave the kids alone, and send the worthless Police after employers of Illegals to get your EASY $$$$.

Let the Kids grow up feeling they have a Country that does not want to persecute them!

FACT-In Texas, in Williamson County, the Jail is filled with NORMAL KIDS, who after getting put on PROBATION for a MINOR offense, and then being put under a MICROSCOPE, were caught in violation, and are sitting in the DAMNED jail-so the Criminals running it get FEDERAL $$$$$ for having them!

And McClown thinks Move it on is a bad group-Sheeesh!

Posted by: RAT-The | September 15, 2007 12:36 PM

Nice to see the right wing showing their true colors - free speech is only for those who blindly obey me, everyone else goes to prison or gets deported.

Posted by: DF in FL | September 15, 2007 12:50 PM

I can see that there are some people here that are more comfortable using labels,

"LIBBY's" than thinking.

people like that are selling/shilling.

Petraeus is falsifying information on multiple levels..

he knows who al QUEADA are, they are bush family friends...




will find an article detailing how bush is working with some MIDDLE EASTERN FAMILIES TO AFFORD THEM THE ABILITY TO SKIM MONIES FROM MILITARY SHIPMENTS THROUGH KUWIAT/UAE and send that money to SUNNI INSURGENTS IN IRAQ....who are killing AMERICANS...

bush and family are commiting treason, period...and should be arrested....and eventually the full penalty exacted against them...



that bush was going to sell 20 BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ARMS TO, so that they could help him get the SHIA TO SUBMIT....while he simultaneously got to use them as the

"terryists" that he is selling to the United States sheeple...


Posted by: well, | September 15, 2007 1:16 PM

McCain is a wannabe, autocratic fool and he represents the best the Republicans can throw at a field of Democratic winners. With the exception of a small crew of backers, no one listens to the aged, washed up Mr. McCain. As for MoveOn.org, the gloves are, and have been "off" for a long time. Turnabout is fair play under Republican rules of engagement, and that's what's happening now. The president, his administration and his military lackey General Petraeus are able targets for anything anyone wants to say about them. Petraeus, in particular, sacrificed his independence when he chose to accept a role of political servitude to Bush while still wearing his mil clown suit, so he deserves to be savaged as much as Kerry was "swift boated". Let the verbal slaughter of all things Republican continue, and let their expulsion be thorough.

Posted by: Phil | September 15, 2007 1:18 PM


One after another, the men and women who have stepped forward to report corruption in the massive effort to loot the treasury and Iraq have been vilified, fired and demoted.

Or worse.

For daring to report illegal arms sales, Navy veteran Donald Vance says he was imprisoned by the American military in a security compound outside Baghdad and subjected to harsh interrogation methods.

There were times, huddled on the floor in solitary confinement with that Iron Maiden music blaring dawn to dusk and interrogators yelling the same questions over and over, that Vance began to wish he had just kept his mouth shut.

He had thought he was doing a good and noble thing when he started telling the FBI about the guns and the land mines and the rocket-launchers - all of them being sold for cash, no receipts necessary, he said. He told a federal agent the buyers were Iraqi insurgents, American soldiers, State Department workers, and Iraqi embassy and ministry employees.

The seller, he claimed, was the Iraqi-owned company he worked for, Shield Group Security Co.

"It was a Wal-Mart (nyse: WMT - news - people ) for guns," he says. "It was all illegal and everyone knew it."

So Vance says he blew the whistle, supplying photos and documents and other intelligence to a policeman in his hometown because he didn't know whom to trust in Iraq, Texas, Florida or Washington.

For his trouble, he says, he got 97 days in Camp Cropper, an American military prison outside Baghdad that once held Saddam Hussein, and he was classified a security detainee.

Also held was colleague Nathan Ertel, who helped Vance gather evidence documenting the sales, according to a federal lawsuit both have filed in Chicago, alleging they were illegally imprisoned and subjected to physical and mental interrogation tactics "reserved for terrorists and so-called enemy combatants."

Corruption has exploded under Bush. Hundreds of projects may never be finished, including repairs to the country's oil pipelines and electricity system. Congress gave more than $30 billion to rebuild Iraq, and at least $8.8 billion of it has disappeared, according to a government reconstruction audit. America's finest technology incubator was looted and plundered like the Iraqi Museum.

Despite this staggering mess, there are no noble outcomes for those who have blown the whistle, according to a review of such cases by The Associated Press.

"If you do it, you will be destroyed," said William Weaver, professor of political science at the University of Texas-Old El Arbusto and senior advisor to the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition.

"The RPOF is so rife with corruption. Sometimes people ask me, `Should I do this?' And my answer is no. If they're married, they'll lose their family. They will lose their jobs. They will lose everything," Weaver said. If they have family they will lose their family. If they have posessions, they will lose their posessions. If they admire civil rights leaders, they will be assassinated too. If they have a business, they will lose their business. If they own intellectual property, they will lose their intellectual property.

They have been fired or demoted, shunned by colleagues, and denied government support in whistleblower lawsuits filed against contracting firms.

"The only way we can find out what is going on is for someone to come forward and let us know," said Beth Daley of the Project on Government Oversight, an independent, nonprofit group that investigates corruption. "But when they do, the weight of the government comes down on them. The message is, 'Don't blow the whistle or we'll make your life hell.'

"It's heartbreaking," Daley said. "There is an even greater need for whistleblowers now. But they are made into public martyrs. It's a disgrace. Their lives get ruined."

Bunnatine "Bunny" Greenhouse knows this only too well. As the highest-ranking civilian contracting officer in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, she testified before a congressional committee in 2005 that she found widespread fraud in multibillion-dollar rebuilding contracts awarded to former Halliburton (nyse: HAL - news - people ) subsidiary KBR (nyse: KBR - news - people ). Torture proponent Oil Slick Dick is a former CEO of Halliburton.

Soon after, Greenhouse was demoted. She now sits in a tiny cubicle in a different department with very little to do and no decision-making authority, at the end of an otherwise exemplary 20-year career.

People she has known for years no longer speak to her.

"It's just amazing how we say we want to remove fraud from our government, then we gag people who are just trying to stand up and do the right thing," she says.

In her demotion, her supervisors said she was performing poorly. "They just wanted to get rid of me," she says softly. The Army Corps of Engineers denies her claims.

"You just don't have happy endings," said Weaver. "She was a wonderful example of a federal employee. They just completely creamed her. In the end, no one followed up, no one cared."

Then there is Robert Isakson, who filed a whistleblower suit against contractor Custer Battles in 2004, alleging the company - with which he was briefly associated - bilked the U.S. government out of tens of millions of dollars by filing fake invoices and padding other bills for reconstruction work.

He and his co-plaintiff, William Baldwin, a former employee fired by the firm, doggedly pursued the suit for two years, gathering evidence on their own and flying overseas to obtain more information from witnesses. Eventually, a federal jury agreed with them and awarded a $10 million judgment against the now-defunct firm, which had denied all wrongdoing.

It was the first civil verdict for Iraq reconstruction fraud.

But in 2006, U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III overturned the jury award. He said Isakson and Baldwin failed to prove that the Coalition Provisional Authority, the U.S.-backed occupier of Iraq for 14 months, was part of the U.S. government.

Not a single Iraq whistleblower suit has gone to trial since.

"It's a sad, heartbreaking comment on the system," said Isakson, a former FBI agent who owns an international contracting company based in Alabama. "I tried to help the government, and the government didn't seem to care."

One way to blow the whistle is to file a "qui tam" lawsuit (taken from the Latin phrase "he who sues for the king, as well as for himself") under the federal False Claims Act.

Signed by Abraham Lincoln in response to military contractors selling defective products to the Union Army, the act allows private citizens to sue on the government's behalf.

The government has the option to sign on, with all plaintiffs receiving a percentage of monetary damages, which are tripled in these suits.

It can be a straightforward and effective way to recoup federal funds lost to fraud. In the past, the Justice Department has joined several such cases and won. They included instances of Medicare and Medicaid overbilling, and padded invoices from domestic contractors.

But the government has not joined a single quit tam suit alleging Iraq reconstruction abuse, estimated in the tens of millions. At least a dozen have been filed since 2004.

"It taints these cases," said attorney Alan Grayson, who filed the Custer Battles suit and several others like it. "If the government won't sign on, then it can't be a very good case - that's the effect it has on judges."

The Justice Department declined comment.

Most of the lawsuits are brought by former employees of giant firms. Some plaintiffs have testified before members of Congress, providing examples of fraud they say they witnessed and the retaliation they experienced after speaking up.

Julie McBride testified last year that as a "morale, welfare and recreation coordinator" at Camp Fallujah, she saw KBR exaggerate costs by double- and triple-counting the number of soldiers who used recreational facilities.

She also said the company took supplies destined for a Super Bowl party for U.S. troops and instead used them to stage a celebration for themselves.

"After I voiced my concerns about what I believed to be accounting fraud, Halliburton placed me under guard and kept me in seclusion," she told the committee. "My property was searched, and I was specifically told that I was not allowed to speak to any member of the U.S. military. I remained under guard until I was flown out of the country."

Halliburton and KBR denied her testimony.

She also has filed a whistleblower suit. The Justice Department has said it would not join the action. But last month, a federal judge refused a motion by KBR to dismiss the lawsuit.

Donald Vance, the contractor and Navy veteran detained in Iraq after he blew the whistle on his company's weapons sales, says he has stopped talking to the federal government.

Navy Capt. John Fleming, a spokesman for U.S. detention operations in Iraq, confirmed the detentions but said he could provide no further details because of the lawsuit.

According to their suit, Vance and Ertel gathered photographs and documents, which Vance fed to Chicago FBI agent Travis Carlisle for six months beginning in October 2005. Carlisle, reached by phone at Chicago's FBI field office, declined comment. An agency spokesman also would not comment.

The Iraqi company has since disbanded, according the suit.

Vance said things went terribly wrong in April 2006, when he and Ertel were stripped of their security passes and confined to the company compound.

Panicking, Vance said, he called the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, where hostage experts got on the phone and told him "you're about to be kidnapped. Lock yourself in a room with all the weapons you can get your hands on.'"

The military sent a Special Forces team to rescue them, Vance said, and the two men showed the soldiers where the weapons caches were stored. At the embassy, the men were debriefed and allowed to sleep for a few hours. "I thought I was among friends," Vance said.

The men said they were cuffed and hooded and driven to Camp Cropper, where Vance was held for nearly three months and his colleague for a little more than a month. Eventually, their jailers said they were being held as security internees because their employer was suspected of selling weapons to terrorists and insurgents, the lawsuit said.

The prisoners said they repeatedly told interrogators to contact Carlisle in Chicago. "One set of interrogators told us that Travis Carlisle doesn't exist. Then some others would say, 'He says he doesn't know who you are,'" Vance said.

Released first was Ertel, who has returned to work in Iraq for a different company. Vance said he has never learned why he was held longer. His own interrogations, he said, seemed focused on why he reported his information to someone outside Iraq.

And then one day, without explanation, he was released.

"They drove me to Baghdad International Airport and dumped me," he said.

When he got home, he decided to never call the FBI again. He called a lawyer, instead.

There's an unspoken rule in Bushworld, he said. Don't tell the truth and look the other way when the Bush mafia commits crime.

For doing both, Vance said, he paid with 97 days of his life.

Posted by: Singing Senator | September 15, 2007 2:46 PM

John believes in freedom, but just for conservatives and people who support the war. He doesnt believe in freedom for people who criticize. I just love this from the right wing, freedom for what??? People are dying so we can just keep our mouths shut? Piss off McCain.

Posted by: Paul Nolan | September 15, 2007 3:01 PM

I'm reminded of the issue of flag burning. I'm not going to take a stance on the issue, but there have been some interesting occurences. A RIGHT-LEANING supreme court twice (if I'm not mistaken) ruled that flag burning is not unconstitutional. In particular, they ruled that there is no clear and present (physical) danger caused by flag burning. It is also interesting to note that several groups, including the boy scouts and some veterans' groups, annually burn old and tattered U.S. flags. I'm sure that that opponents of flag burning would not oppose that practice. So what this implies is that they oppose the protest itself, rather than the actual flag burning. And if they knew the Constitution, they'd realize that it protect peaceful protest. The bottom line is that the Founding Fathers were much wiser than these radical, reactionary Republicans. They realized that: 1) Government officials can be corrupt and not represent the will of the people, and 2) free speech is at the heart of Democracy and freedom. Hey, nobody is asking Guiliani, McCain, Romney, or other wingnut Republicans to concur with liberal groups 100% of the time. However, free speech is free speech. To the best of my knowledge move.org has not promoted or engaged in physical attacks, property damage etc. Thus, extremist Repubs should learn to uphold the Constitution or move to Argentina--plenty of Neo-Nazis there to keep them company.

Posted by: BlueDog | September 15, 2007 4:53 PM

John McCain is a sign of the divide that is the Right. "It's our way or the highway." the Vietnam war is being fought once again with the Right using American Troops for political gain. Using people for political gain! that's what the Iraq Oil War is all about.

how dare anyone say we don't have the right to disagree, no matter how stupid or insulting that speech is. unless of course you upset the Republican Way. at least that is the message Republicans want to impose on all of us.
Where is the press? those lapdogs of the right! Money has silenced the press.

well, dictatorships don't like free speech.
Welcome to the American Reich where the Right thinks the only speech allowable is thier "kind," and any other kind of speech is squelched.

Are you one of us or "one of them."

I bet Goebbels and Himmler would be quite pleased to see their handiwork being used so effectively on such an easy populace.

Dissent is the truest form of democracry.

Posted by: Bernard | September 17, 2007 1:39 PM

I am so sick of the media and the republicans saying things like MoveOn should leave the country and that democrats are traitors. If they really feel this way, then we have a real problem in this country since they are talking about over half the people in this country being traitors. But, we all know who the real traitors are in America. They are the ones who have usurped our Constitution in so many ways that we are no longer the democracy we once were. The reason they call us traitors is because we don't agree with them and say so out loud in public. Will someone please explain to me how that makes one a traitor??? Shall I remind all the idiots that it's only in dictatorships that citizens are not allowed to criticize the government, or is that their whole point?

MoveOn's members are some of the most patriotic, moderate and sane citizens you will find anywhere. They're grass-roots people who simply are participating in democracy the way democracy is supposed to be participated in by letting their voices be heard and using what little clout they have gained through their numbers to try to make sure their voices are heard (i.e., it's the only way to have the voices of the People heard over the loud blaring noise of big business). Sure they don't agree with the rhetoric of the republican party most of the time, but they do try to give republicans the benefit of the doubt and do invite them to state their case when inviting democrats to do the same. Of course, republicans never accept the invitation because republicans are not about the People, but about big business. And, you know, if being about big business benefited more People than it does, MoveOn might even support a republican. But all the rhetoric spit out by the republicans about how by supporting big business they are helping the economy and that will benefit us all just rings hollow and simply proved itself to be true. So, let all the big media outlets who are all now under the umbrella of one of five giant conglomerates, support the republicans and never reflect the opinions of the People until they are blue in the face, but don't tell us we need to leave this country. It is all of ours, it is still a democracy regardless of what Bush has done to it, and it's still worth fighting for. It's the ones who don't like having to hear differing opinions from theirs who need to leave the country, for they apparently don't really want a true democracy, they want a permanent republican majority. I can't think of anything worse for this country and democracy than that! (And, by the way, the war in Iraq is not about fighting terrorism -- it's about war profiteering taken to the extreme at the expense of American taxpayers!!!)

Posted by: OligarchyNot | September 19, 2007 5:19 PM

All I know is the chatter in the papers, on the tube, and radio, wether bought and paid for by Republican or Democrat, it all pales to the truth in most cases. When people continue to die because they are there it is important to understand who isn't there. Mitt Romney and his sons are not there, and in this day and age even if you have daughters, those who are doing all the saber rattling haven't proposed to have their daughters or their sons go, so why should my kids go? To maintain their ability not to go? Or as Romney says of his sons, "they have more important things to do." So what my kid wants to do other than go to war for them isn't important? This isn't a football game here, people die and are maimed for life, the end result after five years is enless war with no sign of real improvement. If you want me to believe any of these millionaires who wants the job of president and thinks the way to go is keep up the war in Iraq and Afganistan, I say lead by example, strap on the hardware go over there and show us how it is done, one on one with the Iraqi people. Put yourself in harms way for months and years until the smoke clears and peace returns. Then I will have to say the republicans know what they are talking about. At least supporters of Move on have a clue, even though they act out in strange ways at times.While we are at it, those who think this war is worth it, get out your check books, don't bother to fill in the amount, that isn't neccessary, the government can figure out what needs to be paid and when they find sufficent need for money they will fill in the blanks. It will be your war and you are certainly welcome to it.

Posted by: Steve | September 20, 2007 4:25 PM

They are all traitors! Have you seen this?
Why are these people still in office?


Posted by: Anonymous | September 24, 2007 1:54 PM


"The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is the American Branch of a society which originated in England and believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established." -Carroll Quigley, member of CFR, mentor to Bill Clinton

"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relation is promoting the disarmament of U.S. sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government." "...the very substantial research facilities of the CFR are put to work to develop arguments, intellectual and emotional, to support the new policy..." "...and to confound and discredit, intellectually and politically, any opposition." -Admiral Chester Ward, former CFR member and Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy

Who is a CFR / NAU member?

Which Presidential Candidates are for One-World Government?

Republican Fred Thompson

Republican Rudy Giuliani

Republican Mitt Romney

Republican John McCain

Republican Jim Gilmore

Republican Newt Gingrich

Democrat Hilary Clinton

Democrat Barack Obama

Democrat John Edwards

Democrat Joe Biden

Democrat Chris Dodd

Democrat Bill Richardson

Is there any difference between Republican and Democrat when they have the same goal?

Go to www.cfr.org (Council of Foreign Relations Website). Do a search for: Sovereignty and Globalisation. Take a look at CFR President Richard N. Haass' article "Sovereignty and Globalisation. Check the membership and involvement of all the candidates. See For Yourself!

So called free trade deals and world governmental organizations are a threat to our independence as a nation.

We MUST withdraw from any organization and trade deal that infringes upon the Freedom and Independence of the United States of America!

It's not politics as usual. Research and Vote Wisely. Too Much Is At Stake....

Posted by: Anonymous | September 24, 2007 1:56 PM

I'm a member of MoveOn.org. If McCain wants to cut me a check and reimburse me for the tax dollars taken from me that went to the Iraq war, torture, GITMO, Abu Ghraib, etc., sure, I'll go. But not until I get that check for every dollar I ever put in the U.S. Treasury. What, is America McCain's personal rental property now? I wasn't aware my lease expired or that he had authority to call for my eviction.

Posted by: Claudia | October 2, 2007 6:26 PM

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