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Veterans Group Compares Petraeus and Obama on Surge

As Gen. David Petraeus departs Iraq to lead U.S. Central Command, Vets for Freedom is airing a new television commercial that compares his views on the Iraq "troop surge" with those of Sen. Barack Obama.

"I think we're making progress, and progress is defined as progress towards winning," Petraeus is seen saying in the ad.

"The surge has not worked," Obama says, stating in a later clip that, "My assessment is that the surge has not worked."

"The military objectives of the surge are in fact being met," Petraeus counters in another clip.

The ad asks viewers to call Obama's Senate office to urge him to support Senate Resolution 636, a resolution "recognizing the strategic success of the troop surge in Iraq and expressing gratitude to the members of the United States Armed Forces who made that success possible."

The group will spend $400,000 to air the ad this week in primetime on CNN, Fox News Channel and MSNBC. It is part of a $7 million campaign that includes television advertising and events hosted nationwide. While the group's Web site says it will support "those who support victory," its advertising has exhibited a pro-McCain stance.

-- By Ed O'Keefe

By Ed O'Keefe |  September 17, 2008; 6:30 AM ET Ad Watch , Barack Obama
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Comments

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Just another RNC shill group. The Surge? You mean the bribing of the Sunni tribal elders and the voluntary stand down of the mahdi army. As soon as the cash dries out the Sunnis will once again show why 20% of Iraqs population ran the show for soooo many years. Let the "show" begin.

Posted by: BeatTweety'08 | September 17, 2008 9:14 AM

What is the defination of winning in iraq
do we get so witness a uss missouri moment
like when macarthur,receive an unconditional surrender,are when eisenhower
also got surrender papers,what do we get?
beside higher fuel prices,damm,I thought
once we invaded that countrie and kill
Saddam,that we were going to take over their oil.instead we are paying more then before,are the oil coporations making
the money?definately not the average
american, we get screw again,and the republicans say we wanty to surrender?
what bs,and to think about it,the only one
really talking about surrender is the only guy that have surrendered and that
is john (pow) mccain himself.what a
bunch of crap,and somewhat the are trying
to blame obama for this failure,no way
mccain,you liar,this is Bush & mccain
mess.

Posted by: sgt.york | September 17, 2008 9:51 AM

Where's the clip of Obama talking to Bill O'Reilly and saying that the surge has succeeded beyond our wildest expectations?

Posted by: Ann | September 17, 2008 10:43 AM

If these guys have any care and consideration for vets they would do well to spend that advertising money to make known the plight of vets when they return from the war and ask General Patreus to help get better medical facilities and treatment for vets. They will do well to research Mccain's record after being in the senate for 26 years and allowing the deplorable conditions at Walter Reed Hospital to exist.If they have any decency they will not allow themselves to be used as fools rather they would ask which came first, the war or the surge? the death of 4000 or the surge? the wounding and diabling of 25000+ or the surge?

Posted by: samiael | September 17, 2008 10:59 AM

The first commenter here has a typing or spelling problem, to begin with. The day the U.S.S. Missouri (or any other large naval vessel) can navigate up the
river there, the insurgents might go bug-eyed. Let's call one spade a spade...the greatest part of the insurgency is Shiite...local...and they want the whole enchilada. The oil folk want the oil, but their gouging is world-wide and these guys are multi-national corporations with no love for any one nation or that nation's people. So what does that tell you? When the pretense of popularly elected central governments is finally realized and that nations are being governed by multinational corporations...then people may figure out how to deal with these messes.

Posted by: jdenver | September 17, 2008 11:12 AM

Was it our genius that the Sunni tribal leaders started to hunt down AlQueda even before the surge was announced? Was it our genius that by the time the surge was announced, the Sunni and their countrymen who were fairly mixed in neighborhoods had already driven each other into havens of their own kind. Thus, less chance for the violence. No, this "surge" was just another talking point in a war that has proven all talking points to be ridiculous.

Posted by: Bart | September 17, 2008 11:15 AM

Obama never told O'Reilly "that the surge has succeded beyond our wildest expectations". What he did say was that only the military effort succeded, but that all the over conditions that led to the violence remain unsolved. As we can all see Gen Petraeus contunues to call the "success" fragile & reversible, and only reluctently agreed to the troop reductions because the chairman of the JCS said army morale is breaking down, and more troops are needed in Afganistan.

Posted by: Leonard | September 17, 2008 11:21 AM

Surge,smurge---IT'S THE ECONOMY!

Posted by: Martha | September 17, 2008 11:29 AM

How untrue and insincere... the surge was supposed to provide a result that had Iraqi political reconciliation... NONE has happened and because of that, the SURGE cant yet go down.
Even After Bush's drawdown idea of 8000 more troops in February, he'll still ahve 4000 more than before the surge.... If it worked, how come we still need more than what we began with?
Period.
Liars and scumbags.

As well, why are military combat troops donating to Obama 6-1 against McCain?
Oooooh, more lying and fraud by the MCCain campaign.

Posted by: FormerRepub | September 17, 2008 11:32 AM

I do not think the surge was a success. It was purely a military triumph that is rather temporary. And it has no bearing in the main battle in the political arena. The three main Iraqi factions: the Shiites, the Sunnis and the Kurds remain unyieldingly divided and we are losing any influence we had on P.M. Maliki. Now the P.M. is asking us to leave the cities by the end of this year and to give him a firm dead line to pull out all the troops. Is that a success?
We are doing all the cooking for the Iranians to savor, thanks to the Bush administration.

Ich Nguyen

Posted by: Ich Nguyen | September 17, 2008 11:32 AM


There were so many elements that led to the decrease of violence in Iraq, perhaps the least of which may have been the so called surge. The efforts on the diplomatic front as well as a change in tactics by Petreus, for which he will receive credit. But to say that the increase in troops was the sole reason for the decrease in violence is shortsighted, but the Repubs believe it as they believe in creationism and the flat earth. Long live the pea brained swift boaters!!

Posted by: joe turner | September 17, 2008 11:35 AM

They will spend $7 million on smear ads, but will not build housing for the many homeless Vietnam Vets who sleep on the sidewalks just outside of the window of John McCain's office on Capitol Hill. The shameless hypocrisy of McCain and the Republicans is old and stale.
But I must give them credit. They know that Americans only care about "American Idol," and all of the other brainless reality shows, along with Madonna, Britney, and, God forbid, Paris. All the Republicans have to do is say any lie, and Americans will just believe it, because they are too busy with reality shows and gossip magazines to research what is true and what are Republican lies.
I am starting to believe that the US does not deserve Obama/Biden. 4 Years from now, we must say we deserved what we got because we were "too busy" to get to know Obama.

Posted by: Keith | September 17, 2008 11:41 AM

What is success in Iraq? Fewer casualties? One less billion not spent? This is what success should be - no presence of US military in that country! Let's call our Senators and urge them to demand withdrawal from Iraq NOW and end this illegal and immoral occupation.

Posted by: Dave | September 17, 2008 12:37 PM

It is good that these witless vets were not the troops of World War II. The must know they are lying and trying to support a vet of the Vietnam War that is hung up on loosing that war and supporting the military club his daddy and gradnpa belonged to.

Posted by: John E. McCue | September 17, 2008 12:48 PM

Petraeus' comment largely refers to the military perspective and something of a Pax Romana; Obama (correctly, I personally think) is pointing out that there is virtually no evidence of progress towards resolution of the regional and sectarian problems, or the governance issues, that are what will bring Iraq back to chaos in the post-invasion era.

Pity that the political wars boil down to having people talking past each other, but then the reason it keeps on, getting worse and worse, is because the electorate - especially swing voters in key states - are influenced by this sort of Punch & Judy routine. Guess it means we're not getting much more political reconciliation than the Sunni-Shiite-Kurd love triangle.

Posted by: Mark B | September 17, 2008 12:56 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7610405.stm

"No victory in Iraq, says Petraeus"

This should put an end once and for all to the McSame/Palin claim that the surge was a "success". In this Article, Gen. Petraeus states: "that recent security gains were "not irreversible" and that the US still faced a "long struggle". General Petraeus also said "the trends in Afghanistan have not gone in the right direction... and that has to be addressed". Finally, General Petraeus "said he did not know that he would ever use the word "victory": "This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade... it's not war with a simple slogan." Well, that military know-it-all, Johnny McSame, has a lot of explaining to do to the American people. If he can't tell the difference between "victory" and something less, than he is definitely not qualified to be Commander-in-Chief. Obama/Biden 08!!!

Posted by: caliguy55 | September 17, 2008 1:16 PM

We must not forget that the "surge" would not have even been necessary, if George W. Bush had not invaded Iraq in an action based on lies and deceit. These Republican morons never stop trying to rewrite history because history shows what a failure they've been throughout the history of this country. Obama/Biden 2008!!!

Posted by: caliguy55 | September 17, 2008 1:19 PM

What we are arguing about here is who has the best ideas to put out the fire. What we are ignoring is how and why the fire was started. The "surge" should never have been an issue, because with sound judgment, there would have been no war. McCain has warned that there will be more wars, and he is probably correct in that BUT his record of poor judgment as to where, when and how to fight such future wars is solid evidence that he is NOT the one we want making the initial decisions. When it counted, Obama was right...McCain was wrong..it is that plain and simple.
As to the effectiveness of the surge to try to correct the horrible mistakes of the current administration...perhaps it has led to some temporary improvements. However, not as much so as the policy of paying our former enemies well to be on our side, at least until the money stops flowing from DC. And nowhere's near as much as the almost completed ethnic cleansing of the neighborhoods throughout Iraq.

Posted by: Waynep | September 17, 2008 1:36 PM

the surge failed because it did not meet the stated goal of changing the political issues. the gop changed the purpose to meet their own needs just like all of the changes of why we went to war. the general understands that this is not winning. by saying the right polital statements, he has been promoted. the iraqi's have already started the violence again because the bribes we paid are wareing off. we need to end this. let the bush message of mission accomplished stand for a win. we should not be focusing on a milatary win. we have wrecked our economy for the sake of the rich and allowed it to happen due to racism and pride. if we continue this war, the enemy has won. we are growing poorer by the day. this poverty will get you regardless of race or gender. it's the economy stupid. we need that money to create jobs. if we have jobs, we pay taxes and we purchase products that starts manufacturing jobs again. we can support an alternative energy system that produces jobs in the us. maybe those veterans need to ask themselves who are they fighting for. is it for our country or for the oil barrons and the milatary industrial complex that makes a fortune off of war.
i'm really tired of being suckered by this administration and the gop. mc cain says he will change only after the people supported obama. he reminds me of the wolf in the fairy tales. no matter what the disquize, he is still a wolf and means us no good. if the verarans have so much money for adds, they need to purchase ads that say buy american or conserve gas, or protect the environment. only warriors want war. i have a conflict wit a platform that is suppose to value life and that kill civilians and let american children and families be without health care and shelter. how sick.

Posted by: jane robinson | September 17, 2008 1:36 PM

Arguments about the surge, a side issue, causes one to lose focus on the principal issue, the fact that the war was unjust, unjustified and is today the cause of much of America's problems.

4,100 of our troops, young men and women have perished...."But John McCain says the surge is working"
Some 20,000 of our troops have been injured, many now handicapped and will be dependents on the taxpayers for the rest of their lives...But John McCain says the surge is working"
On the economic front almost 1 trillion dollars have been spent on the war to date, with ongoing cost of $10 billion per month, whilst the budget deficit is nearing a half trillion dollars and the national debt is in the trillions... But John Mccain says the surge is working". Meanwhile our nation infrastructure and our Katrina victims are being neglected.

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi have been killed, injured or displaced because war mongers; the country of Iraq, its people and its infrastructure have been decimated.. yet John McCain insists "The surge is working".
Finally, American reputation and image abroad has been significantly eroded and our military has been stretched paper thin which emboldens Russia to attack Georgia and Mr. MCcain still insists that the surge is working".

In truth, to say the surge is working is like applying band aid to a cancer". This gloss should never be used and will never be able to cover up the horrific tragedies of this war, with all of the human rights abuses at Abu Graid Prison and at Guantanamo Bay Cuba, not to mention torture,of a war that needed not to be fought and can never be won.

Posted by: Ish | September 17, 2008 1:41 PM

It is amazing to hear John McCain now trying to make so much over a surge. If he had not voted to go to war so hastily in the first place there would be no need of a surge, please let not forget this.I am sure that those whoo lost love ones are not as comforted by this. Also when Obama spoke about withdrawing troops, McCain said that Obama did not understand, now I am hearing that there is a plan to start withdrawing the troops. When Obama talked about using diplomacy with those we are not on the friendliest of terms with. John McCain said Obama did not understand, now it is said that we are trying to use diplomacy. It seems to me that John McCain is the one with terrible judgementand understanding. John McCain should also understand that people are really begin to tire of hearing that he was a POW forty years ago when it is so economically hard today. America, we are hearing so much about change, lets show the world that we have changed and vote according to what is best for the future of this country and not by race or gender. The world is watching to see if we lead by example and not hypocritical rethoric.

Posted by: Buckman | September 17, 2008 1:56 PM

You guys should save your money and use it to get medial treatment if you are Iraqi vets.If it was for John mcshame you would not have the newly GI bill that was just passed. You know the one that John Mcshame fought all the way, and when it was passed he tried to take credit for. Yes save your
money and get some treatment, because if you support John Mcshame you must be suffering from PTSD.

Posted by: tygirl | September 17, 2008 2:17 PM


A US victory in Iraq is not just being able to turn over the country to an Iraqi government. A true US victory requires that the conditions in Iraq must be better for the US after we leave than before we invaded. Not just better for Iraqis than it was during the height of the insurgency during our occupation.

A stable, democratic, secular, pro-Western Iraq would be victory. Anything short of this would not. This victory is not going to happen in the foreseeable future no matter who is elected president in November.

The task is not just hard, it's all but impossible. The candidate who knows not to get involved in the first place, or who at least "knows when to fold them", is the one who should sit at the table when playing with lives and money.

Posted by: Sam | September 17, 2008 2:17 PM

That the Republicans are pushing a resolution saying the Surge was successful cast doubt on its success. If the surge was successful it would be self-evident and beyond question. Simply reviewing the objectives of the Surge, as defined by Bush prior to the troop deployments, and comparing them to the results achieved, will show the success for failure of the Surge. This is just tactic number 1 from the Republican playbook; pick a position, truth or lie, and repeat it over and over until it is believed. They just cannot seem to differentiate the truth from a lie.

Posted by: GabsDad | September 17, 2008 2:29 PM

The very people that keep mocking Obama about his CONCERN FOR TROOPS NOT HAVING NEEDED BODY ARMOUR, WALTER REED CONDITIONS, his stand on diplomacy w/Iran, policies about getting out of Iraq, the surge and anything else of valus that he puts forth. The good thing about his pronouncements is that HE HAS BEEN RIGHT AND PEOPLE THAT MATTER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT FACT. LIKE BUSH, CONGRESS AND THE IRAQ GOVERNMENT. GO FIGURE.

Posted by: jac | September 17, 2008 2:31 PM

It is amazing to hear John McCain now trying to make so much over a surge. If he had not voted to go to war so hastily in the first place there would be no need of a surge, please let us not forget this.I am sure that some who lost love ones are not as comforted by this, this will not bring their love ones back. Also when Obama spoke about withdrawing troops from Iraq, McCain said that Obama did not understand, now I am hearing that there is a plan to start withdrawing the troops. When Obama talked about using diplomacy with those we are not on the friendliest of terms. John McCain said Obama did not understand, now it is said that we are trying to use diplomacy with Iran. It seems to me that John McCain is the one with terrible judgement and understanding. John McCain should also understand that people are really beginning to tire of hearing that he was a POW forty years ago, when it is so economically hard today. America, we are hearing so much about change, lets show the world that we have changed and will vote according to what is best for the future of this country and not by race or gender. The world is watching to see if we will lead by example and not hypocritical rethoric.

Posted by: Buckman | September 17, 2008 2:37 PM

Let's talk about what Vets are REALLY saying:
www.votevets.org
Also, take into account that more than 60% of military personnel prefer Barack Obama to John McCain.

Posted by: sheridan1 | September 17, 2008 2:46 PM

Your cause would be better served if you publish ALL statements of Obama and not those snippets that suit your pleasure. You are sounding like far right "Bible Thumpers" that do the same. Only those verses that support their desires.

The money spent on this add, could be spent on your comrades who need housing and medical care.

Posted by: Donald Kloes, TSGT, USAF (Ret) | September 17, 2008 2:53 PM

Why act like it's a big secret, the Liberal's hate the military and despise those who serve.

Posted by: 1Ahead | September 17, 2008 4:48 PM

To try to claim that the surge did not work because it failed to solve the whole problem overnight is unfair, it has laid the groundwork by turning certain defeat into a good chance of victory. For those who say that the groundwork had been laid previously and the surge had little effect, it means that the much reviled "stay the course" argument was correct.

Posted by: James Wasvary | September 17, 2008 4:48 PM

Does Vets for Freedom = Swiftboat Vets? I wonder if this outfit is based in Texas too. Libs, contrary to the witless comments of 1Ahead and the like, do support our military. What they do not support is the moronic Commander-in-Chief in the White House and the chicken-Generals in the Pentagon that will not stand up up to him. One can understand the military in Afghanistan as that is where they should be, but Iraq? The Bush was was created out of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice fantasy and based on their lies in contravention of all the available evidence, not only from US sources, but from European sources as well.

Bloody right libs support our military, but they did get suckered into Iraq. It's time to admit the facts behind the acts.

Posted by: DocDiggs | September 17, 2008 5:22 PM

McCain calls the surge a success. General Petraeus said he would not call it a victory. One of the definitions of "victory" is success in any contest or struggle involving the defeat of an opponent or the overcoming of obstacles - (Webster's New World Dictionary, Third College Edition). Since General Petraeus was the Leader of the surge efforts and McCain was in the Senate blowing hot air I think I will go with the Leader. Maybe the Republicans should have chosen General Petraeus for their Presidential nominee. Bottom line, we should never have been in Iraq based on what we now know were lies. Incidentally, Obama had the foresight to see through the Bush lies. Since we are there lets elect the one man that has the vision to get us out of Iraq, bring our troops home, give them the help they need and deserve and if necessary deploy troops to other parts of the region where they can really do some good.

Posted by: AMC | September 17, 2008 5:35 PM

I'm a Liberal, served in the military, Airborne/Infantry, and still love it. The veterans that I'm in contact with just resent the hell the the President put us through with his mismanaged and misdirected war strategy. First Rumsfeld/Cheney denied us the equipment we needed, and then they turned the local population against us with one stupid decision after another. So do not say we hate the military. We squarely place the blame where it belongs, the White House. To say "mistakes were made" is the greatest understatement & cop-out ever made. If John McCain wants to put his finger in the dike, and keep it there indefinetly, count us out. We have nothing more to give. Furthermore, if John McCain wants my vote, he must announce now that his first act as President will be to recall all those Presidential Medals of Freedom that GWB awarded to those "losers" who implemented & instigated this disasterous war.

Posted by: Leonard | September 17, 2008 5:51 PM

Well, as a Vietnam veteran, I can appreciate that our troops have done a good job. However, since the political reconciliation and other "benchmarks" have yet to be achieved, the stated purpose of the "surge" has yet to finalized, and may never be.

I see this resolution as nothing more than an attempt to embarrass Obama, and others who agree with him, and serves no useful purpose. I, for one, would be delighted to wallow at the feet of "Vets for Freedom" (aren't we all?) if they will guarantee adequate health and mental care for our returning troops!

Otherwise, shut up.

Posted by: michael4 | September 17, 2008 6:04 PM

Why act like it's a big secret, the Liberal's hate the military and despise those who serve.

Posted by: 1Ahead | September 17, 2008 4:48 PM
--------------------------

You sound like a moron. Are you?

Posted by: michael4 | September 17, 2008 6:08 PM

Obama Is A Juke Box:

Fannie Mae gave multi-millions to the DNC and to
Senator Dood who chairs the Senate Banking
Committee and who blocked reforms on Wall Street
activities, along with Senator Schumer and Representatives
Frank and Emanuel.

Senator Obama was the second highest recipient of
moneys that Fannie Mae doled out. Obama plays like
a Juke Box, his tunes lack depth and bomb.




Posted by: 3rd-Party Advocate | September 17, 2008 6:09 PM

If we put our enemy on or payroll not shoot us can we declare victory?

Posted by: tnt31 | September 17, 2008 8:13 PM

Real Brother here.

The LA Times did a story Tuesday on how in the guys book he reveals information about the secret unmanned drones(I don't know why they are considered so Top Secret when you can see them in action on You Tube) and how these unmanned planes armed with machine guns that can be fired from the living room of a soldier in Ft. Worth somewhere are the real reason in the reduction in death and violence NOT the surge.

These drones are now being deployed in Afganistan(yea right as if they weren't til' now).

Un manned planes are responsible not the surge.

TKCAL

Posted by: Realbrother | September 17, 2008 10:13 PM

I don't know if anyone out there is counting but it seemes to me that a heck of a lot more people see Barak's way as THE way...especially vets, I'm a vet and I approve this message. GO OBAMA.

Posted by: Ron | September 18, 2008 12:45 AM

I am not a vet, but I am voting for Obama.
I am completely blown away by the comments on this article. The fact that vets and insightful thinkers both, see through the bluster and blunder of this administration, and its up to now biggest cheerleader, Mcain, just affirms to me that we need a change in this country's leadership, and that it's about truth and what is right.

The neocons can ride out another 4 years, on their oil/weapons profits, on the blood and bankruptcy of the people, and perhaps the people who fall for this corruption and deceit, will get what they deserve for not using their real intelligence.
As for me, I'll save this page to remind me what's real.

Posted by: ukeman | September 18, 2008 3:02 AM

has the surge succeeded in discovering and dismantling weapons of mass destruction? i thot that was what this war was all about or what control do we have over the oil with the chinese carting away billion dollar deals just by staying at home.we know that the war drained the economy,shoot up oil prices and killed our young men.where is the victory in all of this?

Posted by: EMMANUEL ABDULSALAAM | September 18, 2008 8:49 AM

He hasn't got my vote yet, and may not get it, but in this matter I believe Obama and read the daily news reports out of Iraq to support him firmly.

Posted by: winger1 | September 18, 2008 8:52 AM

Hmmm...lots of "know it alls" heard from...on both sides. I wonder how many of you were in either Afghanistan or Iraq, or both?

Posted by: Odysseus | September 18, 2008 9:35 AM

Well speaking for myself, as a returning veteran of the war on terror and a veteran of past wars like the first gulf war, the Panamanian conflict, and the Somalian conflict, I find it very saddening at the way many of the above postings seem to feel that it is better to have us troops lose wars rather than win them. When President Clinton was our President Commander-In-Chief, he kept us from winning the conflict in Somalia, by not using those of us in the military, in the right capacity, which then led to further violence and instability in regions that were already rife with ethnic cleansing and genocide. Senator Obama seems to share in that resolve, which is to embarrass and blame American Forces, and have us return home embittered and disillusioned with our service. It's also extremely disturbing to realize that someone like Senator Obama, who has ties to multiple terrorists and terrorists sympathizers, like Rashid Khalidi, Willie Ayers, Dohrn Ayers, Hatem El-Hady, Raila Ordinga, Louis Farrakhan, Frank Davis, Jeremiah Wright, and Shabazz Malikam, just to name a few, could so easily influence people into voting him into the Presidency of the United Statesa of America,, when only just after a few short years ago they had all witnessed the worst attacks on our country and of our citizens.. He was also given financial endorsements as well as political support from foreign dictators Daniel Ortega, the Sandinista Marxist leader from Nicarauga, and Raul Castro, the new Communist leader from Cuba, after the illness of his brother Fidel Castro. Senator Obama is also being funded by the Communist Party of Illinois, The Socialist Party USA, The New Black Panther Party, and the Friends Of Hamas Fund. Now I ask you, is this what you're all so fired up hot to vote for in this election? Cause to me, and I am speaking as a soldier, I would have to oppose an order from this person if elected, and I am not alone in this thinking either. I can't see people I serve with on a daily basis, wanting to work for someone who seeks to undermine and destroy our nation, our freedoms, and our way of life.

Posted by: Dan | September 18, 2008 11:07 AM

Well Dan speaking soldier to soldier, we are all entitled to our individual opinions. We earned that right. However you have literally charged Obama with treason, and that requires evidence & documentation. Unless you can provide that, I will not change my opinion that the current Administration, and its flunkies are responsible for the terrible damage done to the army I love. Furthermore, in regards to your remarks about the Clinton Administration, a very good argument can be made that President Reagan's failure to capture & destroy the terrorists cell that killed 240 marines in Lebanon during his administration is the real starting point in this war againt Islamic Terrorism.

Posted by: leonard | September 18, 2008 1:08 PM

Well what about Obama $28,000.00 a plate fund raiser with his hollywood friends and Babs $2,400.00 ticket for her concert for entertainment. You know alot of Americans don't even make that in a year ($28,000.00) Don't you think Hollywood could have given that money a better use. Like Texas, New Orleans , at least to get business's back up and running so people could earn a living again. Boy now who's disconnected.

Posted by: suz | September 18, 2008 7:23 PM

Oh and as far as the war let's not forget Cngress voted to go. Obama again couldn't make up his mind yes or no. By being unable to decide it was a good one. Maybe if he wins we really don't need him to think at all because if he did it could be a big boo boo

Posted by: suz | September 18, 2008 7:36 PM

Who is stupid to cast his/her vote to someone who does not understand the economy? He may have the time to read all this charabia wrote for him by Dr. Phil and ratified by Bush he will not bs me. Go Obama

Posted by: The Baobab | September 18, 2008 8:25 PM

Leonard:

Sorry if you feel that way about what I have said, but as for facts, it's all in the news, it's also on record as well from events with whom Senator Obama has ever made public appearances with, and also on record from documents obtained, that you sir, can easily find I'm sure, just like I have and that others have, by checking online or by googling it. That's the fun part of living in modern times with video tapes, cell phone cameras, print news and televised news, not to mention the internet, just when you think nobody is watching you, there they are. Senator Obama has been seen in many public gatherings and fundraiser events with every single one of those people in question, with the exception of the two dictators, Ortega and Castro, but that's only because they only support him and his run for the presidency in words, and also the fact that both of them would be arrested on the spot if they were to ever try and enter this country or one of our allied nations. As for your charge that former President Reagan was derelict in his duties as Commander-In-Chief with regards to the Beirut Barracks Bombings, it would be wise of you to maybe re-phrase your comment, because as you say, if you can't show evidence to the contrary, then you sir, could be held liable for slander if ever brought into court of law, although I highly doubt that you will have to worry about someone doing that to you, even with the apparent misinformation that you're espousing. I mean it isn't as though you're not entitled to the same FREEDOM OF SPEECH, that you selfishly want to keep away from those who may have differing opinions than yourself, however misguided you may be with them. But that is a RIGHT we all enjoy, now don't we sir? I can back up every statement of fact I have made, with news accounts, audio & video evidence, public documents and information made available through the Library of Congress and the Freedom of Information Act, you should look into those sources for the real truth, you might be surprised to what you may find out, or what you don't know. By the way, can you back up what you say with your own statements? My guess is probably not, since all those things never happened the way you want to believe they did. By the way, terrorists attacks by Islamic Terrorists Groups started way before the Beirut Bombings, but having been in the military like you claim to have been, you'd have known that already. Fact is, the first Arab sponsored terrorist attack upon occurred in 1920, long before the establishment of Israel and long before there were any so-called Palestinians. In 1929 an Arab-Islamic mob massacred over 100 Jews, in the Hebron Massacre alone, an ancient community where Jews lived among Arabs peacefully for centuries. Many of the corpses were mutilated by Arabs. Then there was the very public 1972 Olympic Games in Munich, Germany. Terrorists from the Red Army allied with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, shot indiscriminately in the Lod Airport, killing 25 people and wounding 70 and holding many more hostage. One of those killed was Aharon Katzir, an internationally world-renowned scientist. In 1979, some 53 American Embassy workers and family members, were taken at gunpoint and held as hostages for 444 days by the Islamic Revolutionary Forces. Then came the Beirut Marine Barracks Bombings that you spoke of, followed by the Aquili Lauro Hijacking, the Bombing of Pan-Am 103, The first world centers bombings 1992, under the watchful eye of former President Clinton by the way, the attacks on my fellow soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia led by Mohamed Farrah Aidid and supported by Osama Bin Laden, the very same terrorist leader who subsequently called for attacks on the U.S.S. Cole, The Riyadh Towers, and finally a second time at the world trade centers, as well as the Pentagon, using our own airlines as guided bombs to murder some 3,000 of our fellow Americans, one plane, flight 93 tried in desperation to take back the plane from the terrorist in a last ditch effort to keep it from taking out the U.S. Capitol or White House, by sacrificing their very own lives, only to crash land it onto a Pennsylvania cornfield, all of which took place on September 11th of 2001, just in case you may have forgotten about those incidents. By the way, for your own bit of real information, we also found Iranian, Jordanian, Saudi, Pakistani, kazakhstani, Syrian, Lebanese, and Palestinian fighters and terrorist cells inside Iraq during our time there from early on during Operation Iraqi Freedom in March of 2003 and again when I was there, for my second tour in 2005, and on my third tour in 2006. We are also fighting a faction of the Abu Sayyaf Forces in the Philippines and Indonesia too, as well as individual terrorists cells globally, like in the London Subway Bombings, the Madrid Bombings, and yes even in our own country, like with the Lackawanna 6 Cell in New York, terrorist Jose Padilla from Miami, and who could ever forget our old buddy the "The Shoe Bomber" himself, Richard Reid, A.k.a. Abdul Raheem, and John Lindsey "The Traitor" Walker, who got our buddy Johnny "Mike" Spann killed in Afghanistan during Operation Noble Eagle.. So now that you know the truth about terrorism, get some sense about yourself, and help keep this terrorist sympathizer and worthless senator from Chicago, from trying to take over the White House as well as our country, by voting his sorry butt in, like all these other clueless and misguided souls, who seem not to care what they are doing to our brothers and sisters who still wear the uniform with honor, courage, and pride.


Posted by: Dan | September 18, 2008 8:35 PM

Well thank you Dan, nothing I could have said, or written could have exposed the lunacy of your group of Obama haters as well as your ranting. I could only imagine you rolling a pair of ball bearings in your hand while composing your letter. At this point I must end our correspondence, and leave it up to the readers of these posts as to evaluate our comments. Yours; to do a hatchet job on Barack Obama based on the limited & dubious "success of the surge", or mine; to inform the reader as to the culpability of GWB, D. Cheney, D. Rumsfeld, T. Franks, P.Bremer, and those gentlemen from the FBI & CIA who either slept at the switch before 9/11, or provided "junk intel. afterwards, and are therefore responsible for thousands of avoidable military casualties. Our small group of retired NCOs & Officers don't need a history lesson. Our span of service covers 1942 to 1986, WW2 to Vietnam, and beyond. We know guerrilla warfare & terrorism from personal experience, and we also know incompetence when we see it.

Posted by: leonard | September 19, 2008 11:19 AM

Leonard:


Have it your way Leonard. This just goes to show everyone that you and the ilks like you can't stand to have anyone who has opposing views from yourself. Gee Leonard, time to re-think that FREEDOM OF SPEECH RIGHT huh? Man, it must be awful lonely living in that dark, empty, world of yours, where you are the only one who can have an opinion and everyone else has to keep their opinions to themselves. Tell me, when you was a kid and got a chance to go play with the other kids outside, like say maybe a sport or a game, where everyone had to agree on what was played, did you tell all the other kids that they had to play by your set of rules and do what you say, or that you would take the ball home, and sulk all day in your lonely room while the other kids kept on playing? Cause it sounds like you are one of those types. My way or the highway is it? Oh and if you and your so-called fellow NCO's and Officers out there sure do know your history, then why not review what you wrote the other day, it's now for all the world to read and see too. You told everyone, including myself that terrorism only started on former President Reagan's watch with the Beirut Barracks Bombing, to which you were obviously mistaken about, why not just admit it, I mean facts are just that, they are truths. When someone gives you honest information why not simply accept it, instead of being childish and ranting like a complete and utter lunatic about how you and your friends know more than everybody else in the world. Tell me, was it hard for you to go to school and already knowing more than your teachers and instructors, since you're the world's smartest guy? You see, this is why you libs are so out of touch with average, ordinary, everyday people, because if someone doesn't do things your way, you all whine and cry about it, instead of just saying, "Yeah I guess there's room for more ideas, more opinions, more beliefs, more theories, more reasoning, more evidence, other than my own." But no, sadly you just can't get past the name calling and crying. For you and those like you, it's the old, there's only our way, and everybody else is a NAZI, a Racist, a sexist, a homophobe, or whatever else that comes to mind for you, so that way we won't have to face the truth. We will just shut our eyes and maybe the boogey man will just go away. Well too bad. Life just don't work that way Leonard. By the way, with the FREEDOMS OF LIBERTY comes my right to vote for whomever I so choose. I can vote Democrat, Republican, Independent, Libertarian, or whatever. But for you and again for those like you, though small in numbers, it's you have to vote our way or we will call you names and make faces at you, So leonard, my friendly advice to you, and it really is one I wish you would allow yourself to try, is give everybody around you the same respects for their voting, their opinions, and their views. Why who knows, you might even make new friends. Now doesn't that make more sense? By the way, I still would like to keep our conversations going and I am sorry, whether you believe it or not, that I had to use such strong and somewhat harsh reality points for you today, but the fact is, it seemed that was the only way to get a point across to you and those like you. But hey, if you still can't just let things be and just see other people's points of views without attacking them, then I wish you well in whatever way life takes you. Because for me, I can make my points, then back it up with facts, and not have to resort to demeaning people by calling them hateful names. Noticed yesterday before you started the name calling, I referred to you as a sir, not that I had to, but because I wanted to show you that we can be civilized on here still. So take it for what it's worth Leonard, and no, I do not hate you. I may not agree with you, and I may even feel sorry for you, but I can't hate a fellow human being who has caused me no harm. Just like I do not hate Senator Obama either. I just don't like who he has backing him or bank rolling him, and I do not care for his views on politics. But even at that, hate is too strong of a thing to use. I only hate those who really deserve it, like for Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and his family, Adolph Hitler, Emperor Hirohito, Joseph Stalin, President Putin, Kim Jong Ill, Idi Amin, Ayatolah Khomeni, Mohamed Farrah Aidid, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Ferdinand Marcos, Mao Zedong, Manuel Noriega, Daniel Ortega, and a few others to give you some idea. But if you noticed, no former President Clinton, no former President Carter, no former President Nixon, and no President Bush. They are all Americans, I may disagree with each of them at times, even after voting some of them into office, but I won't sink to the level of hate-mongers out there by calling them names like Nazis or Hitlers or stuff like that. There was only one Hitler and thank GOD ALMIGHTY he is dead. As for Nazi's they died off after facing the world's most powerful military ever put together, the Allied Forces. Unfortunately some youths and even a few old goats out there, still think it's okay to be mean and hateful to other people who disagree with them. Sounds familiar to you does it? So in closing, let's not try to hate others because we differ on things, instead let's try and find a common good we can all agree on, okay Leonard. Oh and Leonard, have a good 'un.

Posted by: Dan | September 19, 2008 12:53 PM

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