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Posted at 8:48 AM ET, 02/17/2011

Montana high school nixes "Redskins" name

By Dan Steinberg

Sure, this topic is more tired than a Caps fan during a West-coast road trip. But the fact is, the owner of the Washington football team has displayed an inordinate sensitivity to potentially insensitive racial characterizations in recent weeks, which is why this latest news out of Billings, Montana, caught my eye.

"Amid raucous cheers and a standing ovation, the Red Lodge School District board voted unanimously Tuesday night to change the mascot of its high school, the Redskins," the Billings Gazette reported.

"After making the vote, the crowd, which was largely in favor of the change, gave the board a standing ovation. Seniors graduating this Spring will still graduate as 'Redskins', but talks of a committee being formed to find a new mascot are underway," KXLH reported.

"Some in the community supported the 60-year tradition of the Redskins mascot, but others said it put down Native Americans. A letter from the Northern Cheyenne Tribal Council asking the school to change its mascot weighed heavily on the trustees before the vote," the AP reported.

"One point speakers keep making in support of dropping the mascot is that they collectively have problems telling their children and grandchildren what a 'Redskin' is," KXLH wrote in its live account of the proceedings.

Of the dozen or so speakers, only one spoke in favor of retaining the name. Others pointed out that the school's cheerleaders already avoided using the term, and that if even one child was offended, it might make sense to change. Poignantly, one speaker said that just as she retains her own family history through her maiden name, people who graduated from Red Lodge will always be Redskins. They'll just be something else, now, too.

"Speaking directly before the vote, Trustee Rich Lynde said he struggled with the issue," the Billings paper reported. "He described himself as conservative, 'spending a lot of windshield time with Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity'" But, he said, changing the mascot is the right thing to do. 'It's beyond political correctness,' he said. 'It's just correct.' "

By Dan Steinberg  | February 17, 2011; 8:48 AM ET
Categories:  Redskins  
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Comments

Steinberg, this is getting really old, no matter what Snyder said in a lawsuit. The fact is that when you file a lawsuit to throw everything to can against the wall and see what sticks.

Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!
Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!


Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Steinberg, this is getting really old, no matter what Snyder said in a lawsuit. The fact is that when you file a lawsuit to throw everything to can against the wall and see what sticks.

Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!
Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!


Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Why are we making a big deal about something that only 9% of native americans find offensive?

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/NewsDetails.aspx?myId=89

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:01 AM | Report abuse

When you talk to Redskins fan notice how many refer to the team as the "Skins." Some do it for brevity but many also do it to avoid using the official name because they are at some level uncomfortable with it.

There are many of us who would be happy to see the name change.

Posted by: CrabHands | February 17, 2011 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Whomever keeps posting this link:

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/NewsDetails.aspx?myId=89

Please address the flawed methodology behind it.

Posted by: rdpinva | February 17, 2011 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Interesting, looks like there are still plenty of other Redskins out there...

Anderson Redskins Cincinnati OH
Arcadia Redskins Arcadia OH
Belding Redskins Belding MI
Bryan County Redskins Pembroke GA
Calaveras Redskins San Andreas CA
Caldwell Redskins Caldwell OH
Camden-Frontier Redskins Camden MI
Canisteo Redskins Canisteo NY
Canisteo-Greenwood Redskins Canisteo NY
Capitol Hill Redskins Oklahoma City OK
Chowchilla Redskins Chowchilla CA
Clinton Redskins Clinton MI
Colusa Redskins Colusa CA
Conrad Science Redskins Wilmington DE
Cooperstown Redskins Cooperstown NY
Coshocton Redskins Coshocton OH
Cumberland Redskins Cumberland KY
Cuyahoga Heights Redskins Cleveland OH
Donna Redskins Donna TX
Dustin Redskins Dustin OK
Fort Loramie Redskins Fort Loramie OH
Goshen Redskins Goshen IN
Gridley Redskins Gridley IL
Gustine Redskins Gustine CA
Hurricane Redskins Hurricane WV
Indian Creek Redskins Wintersville OH
Kingston Redskins Kingston OK
Knox Redskins Knox IN
La Veta Redskins La Veta CO
Lamar Redskins Houston TX
Lancaster Redskins Lancaster NY
Ledgemont Redskins Thompson OH
Liberal Redskins Liberal KS
Little River Redskins Little River KS
Loudon Redskins Loudon TN
Manteo Redskins Manteo NC
Manual Redskins Indianapolis IN
McLoud Redskins McLoud OK
Momence Redskins Momence IL
Morris Redskins Morris IL
Neshaminy Redskins Langhorne PA
Nokomis Redskins Nokomis IL
Nokomis/Lincolnwood Redskins Nokomis IL
North Redskins Wichita KS
North Side Redskins Fort Wayne IN
Oneonta Redskins Oneonta AL
Oriskany Redskins Oriskany NY
Paw Paw Redskins Paw Paw MI
Pocahontas Redskins Pocahontas AR
Port Clinton Redskins Port Clinton OH
Port Townsend Redskins Port Townsend WA
Red Lodge Redskins Red Lodge MT
Red Lodge/Belfry Redskins Red Lodge MT
Red Mesa Redskins Teec Nos Pos AZ
Ringgold Redskins Ringgold LA
Rush Springs Redskins Rush Springs OK
Sandusky Redskins Sandusky MI
Sanford Redskins Sanford ME
Saranac Redskins Saranac MI
Sayre Redskins Sayre PA
Shawnee Redskins Wolf Lake IL
Social Circle Redskins Social Circle GA
St. Henry Redskins St. Henry OH
St. Johns Redskins St. Johns AZ
Sullivan Redskins Sullivan IL
Sullivan-Okaw Valley Redskins Sullivan IL
Teton Redskins Driggs ID
Tulare Union Redskins Tulare CA
Union Redskins Tulsa OK
Utica Redskins Utica OH
Wapakoneta Redskins Wapakoneta OH
Wellpinit Redskins Wellpinit WA
Wiscasset Redskins Wiscasset ME

http://www.maxpreps.com/search/school.aspx?search=redskins

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:09 AM | Report abuse

CrabHands,

Yeah people says Skins because they don't want to be racist...

So why do we call the Capitals the Caps and the Natinoals the Nats?

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Steinberg couldnt live in Kansas..

Teams include...

Medicine Lodge Indians
Dodge City Red Demons (Logo = Nats DC)
Hays Indians
Liberal Redskins
Lawrence Chesty Lions (offending large chested woman everywhere)
Smith Center Redmen
Chapman Fighting Irish
Pratt Greenbacks
St. John's Muleskinners
South Barber Chieftans
Larned Indians

http://www.mghelmets.com/kansas%20hs.html

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Steinberg: give it a rest. The name is not changing and you come across like a whiny geek. Only political correctness geeks like you want it to change. Native Americans get it which is why both SI and U of PA polls have shown huge percentages of Native Americans have no objection.

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Hondo said, "CrabHands, Yeah people says Skins because they don't want to be racist..."

I agree.
Some do say 'Skins because they don't want to say Redskins. The reason for that for some is because it is shorter but for other fans is because consciously or subconsciously they don't really like the term.

Posted by: CrabHands | February 17, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Fight for old D.C.!

Posted by: Hondo5

They should change the last line to:

Practice in old Ashburn, Fight for old Landover!

Posted by: capscapscaps2 | February 17, 2011 9:47 AM | Report abuse

CrabHands - that's nothing more than a pure assumption that you are making and a huge stretch.

Almost EVERY team has a shortended name.

Hell, almost EVERY person has a shortened name. Do people call you by your full first name? Likely they don't.

Polls have shown that actual native americans are not offended. Only WHITE PC wusses are offended.

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Steinberg: give it a rest.

Posted by: poguesmahone

If it makes the Redskins look like the dysfunctional, inept franchise it in truth is, I say: bring it on! Snyder files a lawsuit and sites his offense at childish devil horns as anti-Jewish? And does this with a team named Redskins, which far more people see as offensive as they see devil horns as anti-Jewish? He brings this sort of stuff on himself. And, what does he care, his games are "sold out" and there are 200 gazillion people on a special waiting list he keeps locked up with his Redskins belt.

Go Dan! Go Caps!

Posted by: capscapscaps2 | February 17, 2011 9:52 AM | Report abuse

capscapscaps2 - guess you wanted to change the Washington Capitals to the Landover Capitals when they played at the old Caps center huh?

Do the Caps practice in DC?

The Redskins didn't want to leave DC. Cooke was going to build the stadium himself, he just wanted some land. DC was stupid and it's their fault the Skins don't play in DC, but that will change eventually.

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Another Caps only fan who has a napoleonic complex regarding the Redskins.

Breaking news, the Redskins own this town and it's not changing. I'm a Caps fan (I'm a DC fan) and the fans are great, but it's not in the same universe as the Redskins.

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Stupid politcal correctness run amok again. What's wrong with using a vile racial slur as a team name?

Posted by: cassander | February 17, 2011 9:58 AM | Report abuse

It's interesting to read this. I am from Montana and played basketball against the Poplar Indians and that was a team from the reservation.

There are still a lot of teams in Montana carrying similar mascot names. Here is a quick list I found using Google.

http://www.aics.org/mascot/montana.html

Posted by: ahallmark | February 17, 2011 10:04 AM | Report abuse

The Post's anti-Redskins agenda has never been more obvious.

Posted by: getjiggly2 | February 17, 2011 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Had good back n forth with Steinz on this. What it boils down to for me--and probably for the vast majority of Native Americans--is intent. The Redskins name is not meant to offend, which is the key. And which is why, I suspect, such an overwhelming majority of Native Americans are not bothered by it.

It doesn't matter how many times people say it's racist. You can't make something racist when it's not. Those who wish to compare the word Redskins to other racial epithets like the N word or other similarly disgusting terms, should be jailed for criminal stupidity. Nearly 100% of blacks are offended by the N word when uttered by non-blacks. Yet, the overwhelming vast majority of Native Americans are NOT offended by the team name Redskins. So comparing the two just makes you sounds like a complete and utter idiot. (Yes, I'm talking to you Chad Dukes).

Posted by: Barno1 | February 17, 2011 10:24 AM | Report abuse

a good read from SI

http://middle.usm.k12.wi.us/faculty/taft/unit5/indian_wars.htm

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Bravo Barno! I'm glad to see the comments fight back.

Posted by: Hondo5 | February 17, 2011 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I find it odd that people are so offended that a school board in Montana, presumably elected by the people, unanimously voted to change a high school team's nickname to widespread applause and little dissent. The will of the people appears to have been heard and acted upon, what is the problem?

Posted by: doubleuefwhy | February 17, 2011 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Please remember folks that five years ago the (Com)Post invented a racist term and obsessively repeated ad nauseum it for the express purpose of defeating a U.S. Senator it didn't like.

What makes you think they will ever change their stance on the name Redskins?

Posted by: CapsNut | February 17, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

sorry Dan, but youre wrong about this. how about a blurb about the new high school in Arizona (i think) that opened last year on a reservation and the students chose the name Redskins as their mascot?

Posted by: destewar | February 17, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Names like Braves, Indians, Seminoles, etc., are not offensive and shouldn't be changed for that reason. But "Redskins"? come on.

Hail to the Buckskins!

Posted by: dhenken1 | February 17, 2011 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Please remember folks that five years ago the (Com)Post invented a racist term and obsessively repeated ad nauseum it for the express purpose of defeating a U.S. Senator it didn't like.

What makes you think they will ever change their stance on the name Redskins?

Posted by: CapsNut | February 17, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

He does not have a racist bone in his body, yet the Post's despicable, agenda-driven attacks against him did cost him the election. But...he's going to get his seat back next year. Mark my words.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 17, 2011 11:22 AM | Report abuse

If you want to change the name this bad put up the cash,plus the constant bashing from the Post & buy the team!

Posted by: dph60 | February 17, 2011 11:24 AM | Report abuse

If it makes the Redskins look like the dysfunctional, inept franchise it in truth is, I say: bring it on!

Posted by: capscapscaps2 | February 17, 2011 9:52 AM | Report abuse

You just proved my theory. I believe many of those on the Bog who claim the name is "racist" are people who simply don't like the team to begin with. You don't seriously believe it's racist, it's just something you use against the team. Just like when Terps fans used to chant "No means no" at Duke's players, even though everyone knows the Duke lacrosse players didn't rape that stripper. It's just something people used against Duke, even though they didn't believe it.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 17, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"sorry Dan, but youre wrong about this. how about a blurb about the new high school in Arizona (i think) that opened last year on a reservation and the students chose the name Redskins as their mascot?

Posted by: destewar"

THIS - C'mon Steinz do a little bit of research.

Posted by: PropJoe | February 17, 2011 11:41 AM | Report abuse

How come a high school in Montana has the good sense to change this racist name but a professional football team in the most powerful city in the world doesn't have the guts to change it? Pathetic. I refused to root for this team until they change the offensive name. Stop defending R**skins. It is defenseless. And I'm tired of the "most Native Americans don't care about the name" argument. Lots of black people use the word n**ger, but would you name a sports team after that word? I didn't think so.

Go Caps, Go United, Go Nats, Go Wizards, Go O's, Go Ravens! Down with the Deadskins!

Posted by: jmarks09 | February 17, 2011 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"Lots of black people use the word n**ger, but would you name a sports team after that word? I didn't think so."

-- What an ignorant thing to say. Stop grasping, if you don't like the team, don't root for them. I'm sure you're hatred sustains Snyder though.

Posted by: PropJoe | February 17, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter how many times people say it's racist. You can't make something racist when it's not. Those who wish to compare the word Redskins to other racial epithets like the N word or other similarly disgusting terms, should be jailed for criminal stupidity.
Posted by: Barno1

The only thing you've ever used to support this contention is a 2004 phone survery of 768 Indians as unimpeachable proof that "Redskin" has not and can never be a racist term for any Native American. Have you, as the desginated arbiter all forms of race relations, truly studied the etymology of the word itself? Can you truly appreciate what the word means to an ethnic group that represents less than 1% of the US population? Why is it really that different from using another pejorative "n-word" to describe Blacks, if there was no intention to offend behind it?
What if the intention was only to "honor" the Black culture, (while 100,000 drunk football fans dressed in blackface and tribal gear? A number of Black people find nothing wrong with using the "n-word" as a term of affection, does that disqualify the word from being a pejorative term? Did your survey of 768 indivduals even ask if they knew the linguistic history of the word itself?

*I make no personal arguments one way or the other, I just find smug, conclusory statements by others (who's only intention is to prevent their football team from having to change his name), that no Native American is ever offended by the term "Redskin"(nor should they be) to be incredibly tiresome and condescending.

**There's no need to post over 50% of the comments in a Sports Bog article (Hondo)

Posted by: jbanks979 | February 17, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Redskins is more than a name, especially in D.C. People who enjoy the team, 100,000 plus paying fans and a waiting list 20 years long, remember the memories that the team has brought us. We dont want to remember the Ford Mustang as the Ford Pony car. It just does not bring the same meaning to a Mustang lover, and no other name will bring back as much pride, respect, and nostalgia as the Washington Redskins. In America, the majority is supposed to rule, and the majority of people in Washington and around the country appreciate, and respect the Washington Redskins brand, maybe not todays team but certainly the institution. I go back to Lombardi, George Allen and Joe Gibbs, men of character, who coached the Redskins with pride, before and after them there were others and thousands of players who all felt pride playing for the Redskins. How can so many great, great men be wrong and so few sportswriters and whoever else be right. I trust the coaches and players and fans. I can tell you one thing I believe in the bottom of my heart. If you put the 9% of the native population in Washington who oppose the name, and the Redskins win the Super Bowl against the Cowboys (I know, save it) that year, the 9% would be rooting for their Redskins. Their pride would be beaming.

Posted by: 1bmffwb | February 17, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

How about changing the name to "The Washington White Trash"? I like that name, and I'm white!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

As far as I'm concerned, there are two groups who have standing to advise Snyder what to do with the team's name. Native Americans and Redskins fans. Steinberg is neither. And Native Americans and Redskins fans both support the name. So there is really no issue.

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse

the term is a pejorative. end of story. it should be changed, but i doubt it will.

and trying to paint the allen slip as something created by the WaPo is hilarious at best, sad and disturbing at worst...

Posted by: funkey | February 17, 2011 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Read page 117.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yh9j9Dd5uoAC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=Red+Mesa+high+school+redskins&source=bl&ots=lmYy8ABb7g&sig=OmOW9qaIAVMhCoQW4xMkEYlGEgo&hl=en&ei=XlddTZufCsrVgQeX5JXeDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

Posted by: PropJoe | February 17, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

jbanks,

Equating the N word to the name Redskins is just about as pitifully ignorant a comment as you could possibly make. As I stated, nearly 100% of blacks are offended by the N-word when uttered by non-blacks, but according to both Sports Illustrated's poll and the Annenberg Public Policy Center's poll, the overwhelming majority of Native Americans aren't bothered by the name Redskins. Comparing the two just makes you look like a buffoon. You'd be better off comparing Redskins to the Fighting Irish. Similarly, the vast majority of Irish people are not offended by the team name.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 17, 2011 12:18 PM | Report abuse

By the way, the issue of Snyder suing is a complete red herring with respect to the name issue. The team's name is intended as a positive, even the most ardent opponent of the name has to concede that. The drawing of Snyder and the article were hardly intended to honor Snyder. THAT is a key difference which someone who claims to be as smart as Steinberg does ought to be able to grasp. A little demagogueing on Steinberg's part here, perhaps?

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey everyone, me again, the "Washington White Trash" guy. I think it's doable to change the name as I suggested. I fixed up the fight song so that it works with the new name. Here it is!

Hail to the White Trash!
Hail Victory!
European Americans on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!
Hail to the White Trash!
Hail Victory!
European Americans on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Once again that's a conclusory statement by you that states how entire groups of races feel based on two surveys, and ignores the historical pejorative context of the term "Redskin" itself.

Thanks for the substantive reply.

Posted by: jbanks979 | February 17, 2011 12:24 PM | Report abuse

JBanks: actually, you are wrong. You are buying into the Harjo lies and propaganda about the historical derivation of the word. Do a little research..............

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

poguesmahone:

To give as substantive a reply as what you just wrote. I say, no it is YOU that are wrong. You are blinded by your agenda driven bias against changing the teams nickname. Perhaps you should do a little research yourself.

Posted by: jbanks979 | February 17, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

good maybe they can become the PACIFIERS or THE ASS KISSERS now. But remember they can all sleep well at night now... People like Steinberg have harped on this for years. I remember the "HUGE" demonstration against the REDSKINS name years ago. I almost had to take an alternate route to the stadium to avoid the overwhelming pressense of the 6 protesters.

Posted by: gcottrill | February 17, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Jbanks: Now THAT is a real killer of a response. Typical of p.c. geeks.........

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

JBanks: here you go. This will get you started on your research. Or are you too close minded to see the light? Harjo is a liar.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Hold on everyone! (This is the "White Trash" guy again. I looked up the term "redskin" in the "Merriam-Websters Learner's Dictionary." This is the dictionary that people use when they are trying to learn the ins and outs of American English. Here's the link for the term "redskin" and the definition pasted into this post.

redskin

"One entry found.

red·skin
Pronounced:
/ˈrɛdˌskɪn/Listen to audio
Function:
noun
Inflected forms:
plural red·skins
Meaning:
[count] informal + offensive : native american ◊The word redskin is very offensive and should be avoided."

I don't know if this sheds any light on the subject or not. I mean, I'm so besotted with the name "Redskins" that I cannot for the life of me comprehend what a dictionary definition like this means.

I also looked up "white trash" in this dictionary. Here's the link.

white trash

I was surprised to find that it says "white trash", which I thought was a term of endearment, is "offensive." Can this be? Here's the definition below.

One entry found.

white trash
Function:
noun
Meaning:
[noncount] US informal + offensive : poor white people who are not well educated.

Let me know what you think, and thanks!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Hey "gcottrill", this is the White Trash guy again. Don't you mean "The Washington Ass Kickers" instead of "The Washington Ass Kissers"? I mean, shouldn't our team be kicking some ass, rather than kissing some ass. I know that this seems unlikely at the moment, but hang in there! But I mean who wants to kiss some ass, even though it feels like kissing ass every time I pay stadium prices for drinks and things, and what about the tickets--now there's an ass kissin' event--buying tickets from Mr. Snyder.

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

So there's a school board in Montana that's more enlightened than a pro football team's management. What are the odds of that?

Posted by: eric22 | February 17, 2011 1:32 PM | Report abuse

This is a quote from Adolf Hitler when talking about colonizing Russia: "There's only one duty: to Germanize this country by the immigration of Germans and to look upon the natives as Redskins." (Hitler: a study in tyranny, by Allan Bullock, pg. 385)

The Fuhrer was using Redskin as a pejorative to dehumanize the Slavic Russians in order to justify their slaughter and Germans taking over their land.

So obviously Hitler knew the true meaning of Redskin, but apparently these ignorant fans don't. Funny.

Posted by: jmarks09 | February 17, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

just change it to SEANATORS.. Problem solved

Posted by: gcottrill | February 17, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

get em "White Trash GUY"

Posted by: gcottrill | February 17, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Okay, I gotcha. I am like a tomahawk in high weeds with all this. But listen to me this time (this is The White Trash guy, yeah, again!) How about "The Washington Palefaces" as a new name. Isn't that a term of endearment thought up by the redskins to describe the winners in the Super Bowl of life? And that way, The Danny could be both the team mascot AND the team owner, which seems to suite our awesome team owner's personality. And it makes sense, because the historical palefaces were far more fearsome than the historical redskins, who were all but exterminated in their tiff with the palefaces. See what I mean? I mean, I think I'm really on to something. I mean WE WON (I'm a paleface, you know.) Do let me know if I am burning down the wrong tree. And thanks!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Reading the comments in this thread caused me to poop my pants.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | February 17, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Way to go Red Lodge Montana! That list of teams using Redskin mascots will continue to shrink. Unfortunately some people still don't get that using skin color to characterize traits of a race of people (even if it's favorable) is ignorant and offensive.
In 1960 you could've made a long list of bus stations and diners that still had "colored only" drinking fountains. So embrace the past all you anti-pc bashers. Change will come.

Posted by: gary9smith | February 17, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Golly, jmarks09, I didn't know Hitler was so up on things. Serious, dude. (This is the White Trash Guy, yeah, again, I gotta get to work here soon!)

"So obviously Hitler knew the true meaning of Redskin, but apparently these ignorant fans don't. Funny."

Maybe not so funny after all, since it means we ought to think about changing the team's name, a seemingly insurmountable task. I thought I had it with "The Washington White Trash" but we're not all white. People of color may object to a name like "White Trash" since they know how it affects one's life to be called nicknames based on race, creed or color.

Dang! I know that white people, including me, would never object to being called White Trash fans, since what white person would admit to being white trash in the first place? Even, or rather especially, those who fit the dictionary definition of white trash--"poor white people who are not well educated."

But humanity at large may not be so thick skinned--WAIT! I got it! We'll change the name to "The Washington Thickskins". It even works better with the fight song! That's us! The Washington Thickskins!" Gosh, what a relief to have this problem solved! (I feel so hopeful now.)

Hey everyone. Let me know what you think about the new name. And thanks!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Gary9smith: You shouldn't hold your breath waiting for the name Washington Redskins to change. Or maybe you should, one less p.c. geek in the world is a good thing.

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Skins may be actually be a more offensive term than Redskins, at least so long as MTV's lurid teenxploitation show airs.

Posted by: evwill | February 17, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

how about The Washington Foreskins!

Posted by: Beyung | February 17, 2011 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Hi everyone. It's me again, the White Trash Guy. I'm going to get fired for devoting my time this afternoon to this thread, but I think it's important. I just had another idea.

Why not, in light--and I do mean light, like a 1000 watt lamp!-- in light of 1bmffwb's comment, "and no other name will bring back as much pride, respect, and nostalgia as the Washington Redskins," why don't we share with our all our brothers and sisters that sense of pride, respect and nostalgia taken in a good name for our (lousy) team?

I propose that we NOT move away from the name Redskins. Rather, that we begin a name rotation regimen. What we will do is to choose a new nickname for the team for each game. These names will be based on good old nicknames we are all familiar with, names based on race creed and color.

It's so simple. Why didn't I think of it sooner. Just imagine. As I've said before, the Washington Palefaces or Washington White Trash (Jeepers I feel good about those Caucasian names; I think it's my racial pride). The Washington Mackerel Snappers (I'm Catholic, you know). The Washington Dagos (what the heck is a "Dago" anyway? Whoever they are, they need a little more exposure so we know what their contribution to America was), The Washington Wetbacks (D.C. has a lot of Latino fans who are sure to feel honored by having "Wetbacks" in the name rotation.) And OF COURSE we'll always and forever periodically return to THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS!

I think this rotation thing is sure to satisfy everyone's desire for PRIDE, RESPECT and NOSTALGIA taken in a name, or a series of neighborly racial, ethnic and religious epithets--NOT slurs; I know what some of you are thinking.

Now I really feel at peace, since this is a sure fire solution! Oh, jeez! My boss just walked in! Let me know what you think, and Ciao-ciao!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 3:18 PM | Report abuse

poguesmahone, your comment to gary belies your status as representative of certain suggested names in this thread. Write on and well!

Beyung, there are many in Washington who share your sensibilities! Let's add "The Washington Foreskins" to our name rotation!

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Had good back n forth with Steinz on this. What it boils down to for me--and probably for the vast majority of Native Americans--is intent. The Redskins name is not meant to offend, which is the key. And which is why, I suspect, such an overwhelming majority of Native Americans are not bothered by it.
Posted by: Barno1 | February 17, 2011 10:24 AM | Report abuse


So, if I were to follow this logic and killed your mother, wife, or daughter, then I came to you and said, "Well, I didn't mean to kill them," would that make you feel any better?

Who are we, non-Native Americans, to tell a native what is and what isn't offensive? As a black man, I know racism and have seen it. But, I don't know the Native American experience. I don't know the background of certain words they may find offensive. Even if polls show "most" Native Americans don't find it offensive, I still think we need to listen to those who do find offense in it.

What did it for me was, when watching an episode of "The Lone Ranger," Tonto was being harrassed by cowboys. One of those cowboys called him "Redskin" in a way the n-word would be used towards me. I applaud the move by the Montana high school and I think the DC team's name should be changed -- and I say that as a Skins fan.

Posted by: stwasm | February 17, 2011 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I almost forgot--The Washington Micks! (My mom is Irish, you know.)

Posted by: Patric2 | February 17, 2011 3:30 PM | Report abuse

What does it say about our society where the three wealthyest sports teams all have names that were at one point in history Slurs?

Cowboys: Watch enough old westerns and you will know the term was more a signal of a low class farm hand, usually shifty and untrustworthy. It was not a endearing term.

Yankees: You know the song Yankee doodle, it was a song sung by the British to mock Americans for being backwoods folk. Also a slur in the south during the civil war.

Redskins: as we discuss here, though initially it was not on offensive term, at some point Hollywood turned it into one in their 50's and 60's "Westerns". Fact is we don't have any much proof of it being a slur in the wild west.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 17, 2011 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Stwasm: "Even if polls show "most" Native Americans don't find it offensive, I still think we need to listen to those who do find offense in it."

We can "listen to those who do find offense in it" and reject their whining. Tiny minorities do not get to control huge majorities in this country. I know for a fact there is a tiny minority that is offended by the name Green Bay Packers. That minority, the members of PETA, object to the meat packing imagery of the name because of the associated slaughter of animals. Should we allow their tender sensibilities to change the name of the Green Bay Packers? I mean, give me a break..............

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"What does it say about our society where the three wealthyest sports teams all have names that were at one point in history Slurs?"

What does it say about our media that they only care about changing one of those names?

Posted by: Barno1 | February 17, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Stwasm: "Even if polls show "most" Native Americans don't find it offensive, I still think we need to listen to those who do find offense in it."

We can "listen to those who do find offense in it" and reject their whining. Tiny minorities do not get to control huge majorities in this country. I know for a fact there is a tiny minority that is offended by the name Green Bay Packers. That minority, the members of PETA, object to the meat packing imagery of the name because of the associated slaughter of animals. Should we allow their tender sensibilities to change the name of the Green Bay Packers? I mean, give me a break..............

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 4:41 PM | Report abuse


You're comparing apples to oranges. PETA is a group where as Native Americans are a race of people that have seen their land taken away from them, have been disenfranchised, and mocked and ridiculed for centuries. Again, I ask the question. Who are you to decide FOR them what is and what isn't racist when you don't have a concept of their lives?

Posted by: stwasm | February 17, 2011 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Wrong. I am giving another example of where a tiny group that is "offended" is seeking to dictate to the majority what they can and cannot say. THAT is what you said you advocate....................... It is clear that only a small percentage of Native Americans has any problem with the Redskins name. I love this p.c. nitwits who are all too anxious to quash free speech as long as it is speech they disagree with............

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Wrong. I am giving another example of where a tiny group that is "offended" is seeking to dictate to the majority what they can and cannot say. THAT is what you said you advocate....................... It is clear that only a small percentage of Native Americans has any problem with the Redskins name. I love this p.c. nitwits who are all too anxious to quash free speech as long as it is speech they disagree with............
Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Just because it's "only a small percentage" doesn't make it less offensive. It's easy for you to say it's not racist when you haven't walked a single step in their shoes.

Posted by: stwasm | February 17, 2011 6:19 PM | Report abuse

If 91% don't give a damn about the Redskins name, I'd venture to say that I don't give a rat's behind about the other 9%. As I said, no one has a right not to be offended in this country and those with unusual sensibilities don't have the right to dictate to those who are not so afflicted.

Posted by: poguesmahone | February 17, 2011 7:24 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter if you are not offended by the name, or are greatly offended by the name, the fact of the matter is that this issue although not a major one with the franchise, WILL NOT go away and will sadly continue to be a thorn in the side and rock in the shoe problem for years and get worst. On that note as a fan, Mr Snyder please change the name to Warriors, keep the burgundy and gold and slightly change the fight song. I would also reach out to Native American groups to seek permission to keep the Indian theme if done in an PC and honorable way with their blessing.

Posted by: MrWillie | February 17, 2011 8:27 PM | Report abuse

The REAL reason they changed is so they don't get confused with an NFL franchise that's sucked for the last decade.

Posted by: leatherman1 | February 18, 2011 8:28 AM | Report abuse

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT THE WORD REDSKINS
IS RACIAL? IT'S TIME TO STOP ALL OF THIS
BAD MOUTHING! I DON'T FIND IT RUDE OR WRONG IN ANYWAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.THE WORD REDSKINS TO ME MEANS ALL NATIVE AMERICANS,
WHICH I FIND IN GOOD TASTE THAT WE ALL
REMEMBER OUR HERTIAGE IN THIS GREAT LAND OF THE BRAVE AND THE FREE.AS FAR AS SAYING
SKINS...IT'S A NICK NAME! ONLY A GREEDY PERCENT OF THE NATIVE AMERICANS WANT IT CHANGED BECAUSE THEY SAY THE TEAM IS MAKING MONEY ON THEIR NAME....NOT SO AT ALL! I TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN THE NAME AND I THINK IT STANDS FOR ALL OF THE NATIVE AMERICANS ALL OVER THE WORLD AND I SAY GOD BLESS THEM ALL! LETS STOP THE NEGATIVE STATEMENTS AND LEAVE THE NAME ALONE. THE REDSKINS ARE HERE TO STAY!

Posted by: NATIVEREDSKIN | February 18, 2011 9:16 AM | Report abuse

^^^^^^^^^^^

http://forum.grasscity.com/photopost/data/500/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Posted by: PropJoe | February 18, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

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