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Posted at 4:07 PM ET, 03/ 9/2011

Vinny Cerrato on the draft and offensive linemen

By Dan Steinberg

If there's been one consistent criticism of Vinny Cerrato in recent years, it's that he doesn't do enough radio interviews to explain in 17-hour detail why he made every move he's ever made in his life.

If there's been a second consistent criticism of Vinny Cerrato in recent years, it's that he traded away too many draft picks, and failed to use the ones he had on actual needs, specifically for fat boys on the offensive and defensive lines.

This topic came up again and again during Cerrato's 17-hour appearance on the Mike Wise Show this week. Here are a few of the times.

Drafting Linemen

Chris Johnson: Why so many draft picks traded, why so few offensive linemen drafted over your time?

Cerrato: Well, the thing about it is is you've got to look at the draft. When you trade draft picks at certain times, you have injuries, and then you make trades and you get draft picks. A couple of those years we had all our draft picks. When we traded back with Atlanta we ended up getting extra picks. So the thing about it is, that's just the way you do business.

Mike Wise: Is there a regret there that you didn't actually fortify the offensive line?

Cerrato: Well, the thing about it is is everybody wants to criticize all the time, says well you should have taken an offensive lineman. All right, the one year we took Chris Samuels, he's an eight-time Pro Bowler and possibly a Hall of Fame guy. The thing about it is is all right, Chris Samuels was available at 2. We got Sean Taylor at 5. Would you rather have an O-lineman then? All right, we got Orapko [sic], all our guys in the top 10 were Pro Bowl guys almost. Would we have liked some offensive lineman, a Pro Bowl guy to be sitting there? Absolutely. But a lot of times when you're sitting at 12, 13, there's not an offensive lineman. The draft's got to cooperate with where your picks are, too.

The 2008 Draft

Chris Johnson: Obviously that 2008 draft, I feel like it set back this franchise years. What happened there? I mean, I guess you could say Fred Davis has been productive, but one guy's not on the team anymore-- in fact he's been cut again after leaving here-- the other guy can't get on the field.

Cerrato: The thing about it is, with injuries, injuries are gonna happen. That's just part of the deal....And Fred Davis is a talent. Fred Davis is gonna be a good player. He's gonna be good in Mike's offense. Devin just needed, was not mature enough to handle the situation, and a lot of times when coaching changes happen, you see a lot of guys come and go.

Johnson: But you would say that draft was a strikeout, though. I mean, that entire draft.

Cerrato: Well, I would say Fred Davis is gonna be ok.

Johnson: But he was the one guy you probably really didn't need at that position.

Cerrato: But you know what, if you follow your board and take the best player available....You want to take the best player available. I can tell you've never sat in a draft room. What you would do is you would reach. You keep bringing up offensive linemen. All right, the next best offensive lineman at that time is a fourth-round grade. So all right, a top pick in the second round, we're gonna take a fourth-round offensive linemen to fill a need. That's what you want to do. And the thing about it is, that's like in the third round the one year we got Derrick Dockery, we had a high grade on and he ended up starting. So you've got to follow your board. Everybody talks about getting the best player available.

Rebuilding Through the Draft

Wise: It seems like you were in reload mode all the time. Why couldn't you just take a step back and build for a year and actually be really good for five years?

Cerrato: Because guys like you, you wouldn't take it. Look at C.J., man, he wants to rebuild and be 16-0. You know, he wants his cake and eat it too. The thing about it was, Joe's first year we rebuilt. But it was with more veteran players. And the thing about it was we rebuilt the defense which was horrible and we made it a top 5 defense. Then we started adding draft picks to the defense. The whole thing was, if you've got a franchise quarterback, you've got a chance to win. That's the bottom line. if you don't have a franchise quarterback in today's NFL, you cannot win. Period. Period. I mean, we tried, we didn't get one. We tried with Jason Campbell, he wasn't the franchise guy. We tried to get Sanchez, we tried to trade for Jay Cutler.

Grading Picks

Wise: All right, grades in hindsight. LaVar Arrington, what grade would you give him?

Cerrato: LaVar? Probably a B.

Wise: All right, Chris Samuels?

Cerrato: A+.

Wise: Patrick Ramsey?

Cerrato: C.

Wise: Sean Taylor.

Cerrato: A+.

By Dan Steinberg  | March 9, 2011; 4:07 PM ET
Categories:  Redskins  
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Comments

"Johnson: But you would say that draft was a strikeout, though. I mean, that entire draft.

Cerrato: Well, I would say Fred Davis is gonna be ok."


Jeebus! 1 for 10. One for mutha humpin' 10, Vinny! But it's all Zorn's fault, or the media's fault...

Posted by: 4-12 | March 9, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Wise: Patrick Ramsey?

Cerrato: C.
--------------

The hell?

Posted by: tha_prophet | March 9, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

It's a results business and Cerrato completely failed. And it's fair to judge people's knowledge by results because even Matt Millen sounds reasonable when he talks about football and he was a disaster.

Posted by: Aerowaz | March 9, 2011 4:53 PM | Report abuse

When you grade players and take the best available, you are basically banking on attrition. When he talks about not getting a guy in the first round because he is graded to be a lower round guy, he walks right into an honest question: Did we have a pick in that round? Thats why a good team stockpiles draft picks, so they can draft the best players out there and coach them up. When you only have 3 or 4 draft picks for the year, you are forced to pick for need and I think his answer implies that. I wish CJ would have grilled him more to that point.

Posted by: jsm3 | March 9, 2011 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Why is Vinny incapable of saying #98's name correctly? He has been butchering it for years. It's not that hard.

Orakpo. O-RAK-po.

Not Orapko. Literally he's never gotten that right.

Posted by: RunRiggoRun | March 9, 2011 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Vinny's Grade: F minus

Posted by: VAtoLA | March 9, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Hearing that jackass yesterday and reading and hearing aftermath of this idiot today,makes me so glad I'm not renewing my Redskins tickets. I only waited 25 years to get them. Ended up in the last row and gradually moved down. Now,I'm moving out. The rot is so deep,so prevelant,I don't think it'll ever really change. It just reboots itself under a different guise every couple of years. Like a lousy sequel.

Posted by: ridgely1 | March 9, 2011 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Vinny's brain capacity must be severely limited. Always thought his command of the English language was poor. Wondered how someone with his apparent short comings in mental capacity got as far as he did. Can he even start a sentence with words other than "The thing about it is..."? What a sad, pathetic individual.

Posted by: wagman1 | March 9, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"But a lot of times when you're sitting at 12, 13, there's not an offensive lineman."

That's just the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

Honestly. Dude must be doing some serious drugs to believe what he is saying.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | March 9, 2011 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Lookit, the thing about it is is that Vinny's draft boards obviously undervalued offensive linemen.

When the draft board said to pick Fred Davis, it was the second round and Vinny's draft board said the next offensive lineman had a fourth round grade.

Lookit, the thing about is is that, in that draft, the offensive linemen on the board included Mike Pollak (starting guard, Colts ... the other one is Kyle DeVan, who was actually UDFA by the Skins before he was dropped ... thanks, Vin), John Greco (#3 guard for the Rams now), Jeremy Zuttah (starting center, Buccaneers), and Oniel Cousins (#3 tackle, Ravens) ... and those guys were all before the fourth round.

Lookit, the thing about it is is that the Skins DID take an offensive lineman in that draft, the former Skin Chad Reinhardt, who they took in the THIRD round ... so Vinny did reach.

Lookit, the thing about it is is that Vinny just did what The Owner wanted and The Owner, with his vast range of mad skill in football, does not value offensive linemen.

Lookit. The thing about it is is.

Posted by: dcsween | March 9, 2011 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato takes no responsibility for the glaring personnel mistakes he has made with this team.

This is why I like what Shanahan is doing....

Cerrato always thought they were "right there"...Shanahan has said publically that this is a two to three year rebuild and they have conducted themselves as such (with the exception of McNabb). Allen and Shanahan have successfully cleaned up the books and have eliminated the Redskins' "payday"

Posted by: rickyroge | March 9, 2011 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Chris Johnson: Why so many draft picks traded, why so few offensive linemen drafted over your time?

Cerrato: Well, the thing about it is is you've got to look at the draft. When you trade draft picks at certain times, you have injuries, and then you make trades and you get draft picks. A couple of those years we had all our draft picks. When we traded back with Atlanta we ended up getting extra picks. So the thing about it is, that's just the way you do business....
~~

Wait..wha-what?


Cerrato is clever at nonsensical double-speak,stream of consciousness answers that don't answer anything the questioner asked isn't he?

So, to the next Cerrato interviewer, he must be PINNED on questions or he will wiggle away with some borderline deranged, crazy-ass, tangential answer.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | March 9, 2011 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Wise: Patrick Ramsey?

Cerrato: C.
--------------

The hell?

Posted by: tha_prophet | March 9, 2011 4:51 PM | Report abuse

—————————————————————————

Exactly — even with the option to display some revisionist history, which he has to in order to justify living in a home paid for with money he stole ... er, "made" ... during his tenure with the Redsins, he gives Ramsey a C? As a quarterback taken in the FIRST ROUND?

Once again, stop interviewing this moron. He was uesless when he "worked" for the Redskins and is useless now.

I can't believe he accepts offers to do interviews anymore, considering he gets universally BBQ-ed by everyone who listens, but more than that, I can't believe anyone asks him for an interview. That's pathetic.

Posted by: DC2Dallas | March 9, 2011 8:23 PM | Report abuse

It reminds me of when Charles Manson is interviewed every few years. For about 30 seconds he sounds lucid and then it quickly deteriorates into non sense.

Posted by: cabraman | March 9, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Who was it that decided to play without an offensive line? Do you think there is anyone on the roster this year or last who could play on the offensive line of any team in the NFL? I would love to have you or Dan Snyder take a couple of snaps with Casey Rawback and the rest of the people you signed. Your are a moron.

Posted by: HelloNewman53 | March 9, 2011 10:09 PM | Report abuse

I love how this piece of shti keeps blaming the media. Yeah it's the media's fault you drafted so terrible you no-talent azzclown.

If you're actually basing your draft on what the media will say about it you have no business running a lemonade stand, let alone a NFL team.

Hopefully Thursdays monsoon will wash Vinny-the-d0uche far, far away.

Who I feel really, really bad for are Vinny's kids and wife. They gotta live with this delusional azzhat everyday. Not to mention the constant embarassment of knownig their dad/husband was in Kindergarden Ninja.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | March 9, 2011 10:44 PM | Report abuse

CERRATO, SHEEN HOW DO THESE TWO CONTINUALLY GET ON THE AIR WAVES?

Posted by: pstotts15 | March 9, 2011 10:53 PM | Report abuse

This team would've been perfectly fine and in the playoffs with Patrick Ramsey or Jason Campbell IF YOU COULD'VE KEPT THEM OFF THE TURF WITH A DECENT TEAM AROUND THEM YOU JACKWAGON

Posted by: JohnnyBlades | March 10, 2011 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Cerrato discussing his draft history is like a historian discussing French military victories.

Posted by: boblas | March 10, 2011 8:01 AM | Report abuse

WHY is Vinny getting so much press lately? He adds absolutely no value to any football conversation about Washington football.

Posted by: linroy62 | March 10, 2011 8:08 AM | Report abuse

'The thing about it is' that YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT VINNY. Please stop talking about the Skins and leave us alone. Go back to cleaning out Danny's pool and washing his toilets. Even you can't screw that up

Posted by: rveatch | March 10, 2011 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Vinny: if you don't have a franchise quarterback in today's NFL, you cannot win. Period. Period.

Guess that means Brad Johnson was a franchise quarterback - thanks for getting rid of him.

Posted by: geotherm21 | March 10, 2011 8:19 AM | Report abuse

I don't really have an opinion on Cerrato since I'm a Dolphins fans, but what he said about the DC media is spot on. It's easy for the Mike Wise's of the universe to say, "sit on your hands and rebuild", but if they did that and the Skins stared out 0-5, they would all be calling for the coaches, owners and GM's heads.

Not saying Cerrato was the best evaluator of talent (and god knows the Phins have had their share of draft/free agency debacles) but you can't really argue with Orakpo, Samuel, Taylor, or Fred Davis, whom would be a top tight end if Cooley wasn't the man in DC. I also don't think you can really blame him for Kelly or Thomas either. Physcially they both had great potential, and I guess I was a little too optimistic for them. But their maturity level isn't really something you can put on Vinny. Maybe if those guys had been drafted in a later round they wouldn't have felt so entitled.
I'm not a Vinny fan, but he's spot on about the DC media.

Posted by: jakeyrotten | March 10, 2011 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Hey Vinny, answer this one: If you go by "best available", how could you pass Ed Reed multiple times to take Patrick FRICKIN Ramsey? Also, it was obviously Reed was a real talent.

Vinny has obviously no clue from these statements. Who cares what Redskins fans think about "you can't let us rebuild"..the Redskins have stunk! It was your job to change that. What an idiot. I'd tell him to his face, on the phone, video conference, any which way. Not hiding behind the internet.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | March 10, 2011 8:37 AM | Report abuse

jakeyrotten - the reason the media, fans, etc are like that around here is because of the messages received from the Redskins and Redskins marketing that "this is our year" every year for 10 years.

If somebody came out and said "Hey, we see we are not good enough, and need to take some time and rebuild"...I believe that would work better.

The Redskins have been rebuilding - the wrong way - for over 10 years, with two playoff appearances to show for it because the team refuses to accept what they truly are - a poorly run organization.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | March 10, 2011 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Hmmm....

I can understand Cerrato's spin on the first round/higher level picks vs. the needs at the time. But what about the lack of linemen selected beyond the first round and outside of the top ten selections?

In other sports where trades are very common (and in baseball and hockey where you can stash players in the minor leagues), you can afford to draft "the best available player" straight through the draft. So if you end up with a glut in one position, you can trade one of those extra players for a player in a position where you need an upgrade.

But the NFL does not see very many trades. You MUST draft for need at some point. If that means you're going way off your chart, to fill a need, you go way off your chart to fill a need.

And finally, let me state for the record that the Redskins under Cerrato (and even now) are in such a bad state that they can get away with drafting the "best player available" because I can't see many positions where they don't have need right now.

Posted by: CapsNut | March 10, 2011 9:36 AM | Report abuse

No Job yet Vinny? I wonder why nobody wants to hire a guy can run their franchise into the ground and be a "yes man" to the owner. Al Davis is that you calling??

Posted by: vabrad76 | March 10, 2011 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Hey Vinny: SCOREBOARD!

Posted by: trebor0012 | March 10, 2011 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Dan, when questioned about all the blunders, you left out the part where Vinny said he has "Tiger Blood," and when asked about being a total dipstick:
"winning, duhh!"

Posted by: iubiquity | March 10, 2011 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Does Vinny know that there is more to a draft than a first round pick? The Redskins have mostly been okay drafting first rounders, it is the constant giving away of later picks to fill "emergency problems from injuries" that prevent the team from drafting and coaching up depth.

Vinny can argue all he wants, but the Redskins have been run the opposite of this year's two Super Bowl teams, and there is a reason those teams have success and our team has not.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | March 10, 2011 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Who’s worse, Vinny or Ernie Grunfeld? Ernie’s headed to his third straight, 50 loss season, and this three season stretch is the worst in Bullets/Wizards history. Vinny made the playoffs a couple of years with Gibbs, but that turned out to be fools gold. Ernie made a few nice moves like six years ago, but his biggest coup was trading for Arenas. Not sure how great that move looks today in light of all the problems Gilbert caused. Plus, all the other players from those moves, like Caron Butler, are now gone, and those teams, like Vinny’s Redskins, never won a thing. The Wizards right now are worse than when Ernie got here. Ernie might have had an owner looking over his shoulder, but then, so too did Vinny. And both Vinny and Ernie have way too many blown draft choices on their collective watches. Is having only Fred Davis to show for the 2008 NFL draft any worse than having zero players to show after having the number five and number 32 overall picks in the 2009 NBA draft? Jump all over Vinny, please, but Ernie should be feeling the heat just as much, and he’s still here. Neither Vinny nor Ernie deserves a pass. They’re both incompetent.

Posted by: sonny2 | March 10, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins own little Isiah Thomas. It just kills him to be on the outs.

Posted by: tslats | March 10, 2011 10:52 AM | Report abuse

BrokenClipboard:

I would disagree that it's been the Redskins front office saying "it's our year". Quite the opposite in fact. It's the talk-radio guys and the fans who expect to win the Super Bowl every year. I have yet to see an interview/press release by Cerrato or Synder saying, "We're just one piece away, this is our year!".
My experience with Redskins fans in general (and I do hate to generalize) has been that a lot of them are seriously deluded about the Skins chances each year. And yes, part of the blame for that is Synder's continual off-season victories. The Skins always win the offseason. But that's not the only thing. What also factors in is the Skins history. Many fans remember the Hogs and the Super Bowl teams of the past, and refuse to see the truth.

But mostly it's the media bro. I remember Mike Wise himself saying last offseason, "We've got Shannahan now, we'll be 12-4!". Fact. Way I see it, the DC media wants to have their cake and eat it too. They are more than willing to play the Synder hype game and make ludicrous claims about the Redskins' chances each summer as long as it boosts their ratings (which I don't fault them for, it's the nature of entertainment). But if you're going to make such claims, don't sit there in October and November and wax poetic about how "We all knew Shanahan was washed up, his son doesn't deserve the OC position, nothing has changed in the front office", etc. You can't have it both ways.

Posted by: jakeyrotten | March 10, 2011 11:49 AM | Report abuse

The thing about it is...You are an idiot Vinny!!! Have you ever been in a draft room before? Couldn't tell!!!

Posted by: GoCaps21 | March 10, 2011 11:50 AM | Report abuse

The fact that Snyder let this fool run the team says more about Snyder than Cerrato.

The Skins will always be terrible as long as Suing Snyder runs the show.

Posted by: cbtole2 | March 10, 2011 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Who’s worse, Vinny or Ernie Grunfeld? Ernie’s headed to his third straight, 50 loss season, and this three season stretch is the worst in Bullets/Wizards history. Vinny made the playoffs a couple of years with Gibbs, but that turned out to be fools gold. Ernie made a few nice moves like six years ago, but his biggest coup was trading for Arenas. Not sure how great that move looks today in light of all the problems Gilbert caused. Plus, all the other players from those moves, like Caron Butler, are now gone, and those teams, like Vinny’s Redskins, never won a thing. The Wizards right now are worse than when Ernie got here. Ernie might have had an owner looking over his shoulder, but then, so too did Vinny. And both Vinny and Ernie have way too many blown draft choices on their collective watches. Is having only Fred Davis to show for the 2008 NFL draft any worse than having zero players to show after having the number five and number 32 overall picks in the 2009 NBA draft? Jump all over Vinny, please, but Ernie should be feeling the heat just as much, and he’s still here. Neither Vinny nor Ernie deserves a pass. They’re both incompetent.

Posted by: sonny2 |

AfreakinMEN!! COULD NOT AGREE MORE IF YOU PAID ME!!

Posted by: iubiquity | March 10, 2011 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato doesn't seem to realize that offensive linemen can be taken after the first round!

Never once does he mention why an OL couldn't have been chosen with ONE of the #2 picks in 2008.

Then he goes on to say none of the OL on his board at the time rated better than a #4 pick.

Why did he draft Chad Rinehart at #3??????

That would seem to blow his own argument out of the water.

Let's face it. Cerrato failed. He failed both because he recommended and make some lousy picks and free agent signings AND because he allowed Snyder to lead him around by the nose for years and make moves that the owner wanted to see happen even if there was a high risk of failure.

In the end, Cerrato had no spine, no backbone and that's the reason he was disliked so much.

No one respected him.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | March 10, 2011 12:19 PM | Report abuse

For God's sake, enough with Vinnie Cerrato!

Posted by: bethesdaguy | March 10, 2011 12:33 PM | Report abuse

The thing about it is . . . this guy is an arrogant moron. You do NOT need a franchise quarterback.

Trent Dilfer has a ring. Mark Rypien. Doug Williams. These QBs were adequate, not stellar, but their teams had great lines, solid running games, good defenses.

I can't believe this clown had the job he had. Half the people posting comments could've done better.

Posted by: RIP-21 | March 10, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

So basically he is saying that HE did everything right and WE would have messed everything up. Well, WE will never know how WE would have done, but HE effed up this team for the good part of a decade. What an absolute LOSER!!

Posted by: VaBroker | March 10, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Vinny's an idiot but there is one question I'd like him to answer (not that he'll tell the truth but I'm more interested in the context and manner of how he answers it):

"How involved was Dan Snyder in personnel decisions and percentage-wise, how often did he make a final decision with you carrying out his orders as opposed to the sole decision-making responsibility resting with you?"

Posted by: playahatah | March 10, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm so ready to slam my head into the monitor again and again and again.................

anybody ever hear of third party concussion syndrome????

Posted by: woosah | March 10, 2011 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato's whole philosophy is wrong. they always talked to "franchise" QB's being required to win. It seems like they did not want to draft a plyer unless he was going to be a slam dunk. that's not how you build a football team.

In 2008, they drafted Chad Rhinehart. need we say more.

Posted by: oknow1 | March 10, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

You know what the worst part of these interviews are? They suggest that Cerrato is still involved with the Skins in teh background and has Snyder's ear. Insane.

The most revealing thing we learned is that the reason Zorn was picked was because the Skins could not find an NFL head coach willing to come here as long as Cerrato was around, so they had to go with a good QB coach who was nowhere near ready to be a head coach.

Schottenheimer was right: Cerrato is a palace intrigue guy who relentlessly plays the angles and is obsessed with setting other people up instead of doing his job.

Good Lord, please tell me Snyder does not listen to him anymore.

Posted by: haunches | March 10, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

jakeyrotten - I have no problem with Kyle being OC - he was the OC in Houston for years beforehand. I have no problem with Mike as HC either.

The problem is for both of them, the team has been mismanaged for 10+ years, one coach cannot change that in a single offseason.

And one more general note - drafting in the NFL is not an exact science - I would never expect Cerrato, or Shannahan, or Gibbs, or anyone to hit on every pick - my major problem has been by trading away draft picks instead of acquiring extra picks, the Redskins never get more chances to hit on draft picks.

The more you have, the better the odds.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | March 10, 2011 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Good Lord, please tell me Snyder does not listen to him anymore.

Posted by: haunches | March 10, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato: The Isiah Thomas of the NBA.

Posted by: WorstSeat | March 10, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Can Vinny just go away and take Haynesworth with him. That's the real "thing about it." He may then find some time to listen to himself.

Posted by: wiltonc | March 10, 2011 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Can Vinny just go away and take Haynesworth with him. That's the real "thing about it." He may then find some time to listen to himself.

Posted by: wiltonc | March 10, 2011 5:07 PM | Report abuse

The response to "you have never been in a draft room" or whatever it was... should be "you screwed it up no matter how you ranked them...you should not have EVER been in that draft room"... DUH!! what a duffus... or however that is spelled. the man destroyed the team, along with his protege the one, the only DANNY BOY. Remember fans... not one more dime into his pocket!! Stay away, don't renew! That's the only message we can deliver. And I did. About 6 yrs ago... turned in my 4 season tix. Could not pay that SOB one more dime and I haven't. And won't. And just think what New England does with three # 2's in a draft!!! They don't need to somehow defend their choices. Their choices PLAY and CONTRIBUTE!! All of them, Vinny... not just maybe one in threeeeeeeeee, you IDIOT

Posted by: gb810 | March 10, 2011 8:32 PM | Report abuse

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