Iraq Deaths and Timelines
The news over the weekend and this morning suggests that politically, socially and militarily, things are not going well for the United States in Iraq. The most compelling story is from David Finkel. His narrative of a small, terrifying piece of war for 27 soldiers, has already generated strong comment traffic. It comes after a Sunday article reported that the Iraqi government is unlikely to meet any of the goals or timelines set by the Bush administration when the "surge" was announced and that new definitions of success are being sought to persuade Congress to continue supporting the war. And this on a weekend that has seen horrific internal violence, as reported by Sudarsan Raghavan today.
The comments on the Finkel narrative show two strong themes: (1) what brave soldiers we have serving and (2) what poor leaders they have.
As Spud777 wrote, "What a stupid waste of brave American soldiers. The Bush Iraq war is such a waste. Our soldiers cannot even go to a memorial service with massive support and risk. So sad."
shocker10 wrote:
This information is riveting, truly riveting. I constantly, sincerely praise, admire, and respect our men and women in the armed services... There is no way one can be expected to separate the act of fighting a war from the reasons for fighting a war...We have our sons and daughters in Iraq, killing and being killed, as a matter of daily survival. But they should be well aware of the fact that they are also there defending the lies and due to the incompetence of our president and vice-president."
And ellej28 said "If this doesn't send a clear message that it is time to bring our troops home, I don't know what will. Look at the faces of the men in the picture. The lengths they went to to honor their buddies is valiant to say the least... It is way past time to bring them out of the civil war cess pool and bring them home where they can safely get from Point A to Point B."
The article on redefining progress by Karen DeYoung and Thomas E. Ricks has inspired almost 40 pages of comments, many of them vitriolic in tone, some encouraging impeachment of President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Many of them are from our comment regulars who sometimes enjoy sparring with each other. But the one-sidedness of this particular string strikes me as unusual.
FredEvil said "I think we should hold the Bush administration, and it's war in Iraq to the same standard as the No Child Left Behind act. Strict tests, and hard lines in the sand. You don't achieve the goals we set, you don't get any more money. Sorry, 'alternative evidence' is not admissable, the test is already over, put your pencils down."
thrh wrote that "However they slice it, it's the same old baloney!"
But BuffaloJim57 had a different view. "Anyone like the comments by these yellow bellied coward liberals. They blame our own country for the Iraqi civilian deaths and even the deaths of our own soldiesr.
These liberals are sick in the head and a bunch of cowards, who I have NEVER seen blame the real scumbags who are doiing the killing, the Muslim terrorists and al-qaeda..."
rwbiles1 is critical of the article, saying, "Good score, WaPo, in your attempt to direct American public opinion toward the defeat of George Bush. You have to speculate on possible scenarios, and defeat them in the press before they officially happen. Great flanking move. Make sure you defeat George Bush. Who cares about Iraq and America, and the world for that matter."
But martiniano said "OK, all of you SNL [Saturday Night Live] watchers, say it with me: Looowwwered Expectaaaations..."
And racam wrote that "You can call it shaving the yard stick or you might call it grabbing for straws. Whichever, I hope Congress has more sense than to swallow this line of garbage and let more of our men and women die."
FInally, Raghavan's story about the impact in one hamlet of the explosion that killed more than 140 Iraqis on Saturday has produced a number of similar sounding comments, plus this observation from kralford, who wrote, "Think of how bad it would be if we were not there? The only solution seems to be to separate these folks. If we had only known then what we know now...It's a very tragic situation. Is there anything we can do to alleviate this suffering?"
All comments on the mission to honor a fallen comrade are here.
All comments on the article about redefining expecations are here.
All comments on Raghavan's stories are here.
By
Doug Feaver
|
July 9, 2007; 7:24 AM ET
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Posted by: ntmnemersz | August 26, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse
"The news over the weekend and this morning suggests that politically, socially and militarily, things are not going well for the United States in Iraq."
Really? Do tell? This is news.
Posted by: DCDemocrat | July 9, 2007 10:31 PM | Report abuse
The idiot Lt.Colonel in Finkel's article, the one who concludes that we are winning because otherwise, the insurgents would not be attacking. This has to be the same guy who covered up Pat Tilman's death and insulted his parents for daring to question the government.
Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich
Posted by: Bum'sRush | July 9, 2007 6:55 PM | Report abuse
War isn't pretty!
Flowers don't grow in it - but mny have grown freely after it.
It's not a 'Bush' Issue! It is a question that goes far beyond any one individual or honest political philosophy. I ponder on certain things: would American's (if under the Old Saddam Regime) want a chance to get-out of torture and murder of tens of thousands of People every year?; Are those Americans whom are trying to escape this issue in Iraq willing also to accept the TITLE of being a People who jump-in and jump-out for their convenience. Losing in Iraq will be the Second Loss (Vietnam the 1st) and the beginning of a New American Scenario on the World Scene = Cowards who abandon those they come to Free. I am a highly decorated disabled (Thank God lightly I guess!) Vietnam combat veteran who is against 'violence and war', whether this be between husband and wife, parent and child, children, friend and friend, stranger and stranger, or at national and international levels. Truth is: I am thankful, and proud, that I was there with those Grandparents, Parents, and Children who were being massacred because they wouldn't abandon their Creator's Gift of Being - as they were to be 'FREE to LIVE THEIR LIFE!?.
The TRUE CAUSE of violence is the FAILURE on the PART of THE MAJOR RELIGIONS to be trutful with regards to the OPERATIVE and REAL Structure of 'human vs. Spiritualityy'. If this was not held 'secret' throughout the centuries, violence may not exist at all; or at best at a minimum. Doubt me? Run 'red rose' through your research motors for awhile ...
I am personally against abandoning the Iraqi People (or any other 'People' in need). I do believe that a TOTAL and INTELLIGENTLY CONTROLLED CEASEFIRE is in order to at least attempt to arrive at MUTUAL SANITY in a NON VIOLENT MANNER. I regret that the Osama bin Ladin Offer was not confronted in a more intelligent manner by all Governments who use the "We don't negotiate with terrorists!" dogma to not at least discuss things face-to-face. Talking is not giving anyone anything! It is Wisdom and Intelligence at all levels!Further, I would like to hear them LIVE on the MEDIA statin exactly what is their problem. Maybe, their approach is wrong; however, maybe - just maybe -there is some sort of a viable basis for their frustrations that 'We the People' need to honestly look at with God Like Convictions and Sincerity.
I would like to see a mass email and fax campaign (like that of Terri Sciavo's defence) to force ALL GOVERNMENTs and INVOLVED FACTIONS (Terrorist Organizations included) to the CONFERENCE TABLES. I believe it is time when the People Support Each Other in a manner which at least gives a chance to resolving problems in a mutual and peaceful way. If 'man' alone is capable of this...
Posted by: Gregg | July 9, 2007 1:37 PM | Report abuse
War isn't pretty!
Flowers don't grow in it - but mny have grown freely after it.
It's not a 'Bush' Issue! It is a question that goes far beyond any one individual or honest political philosophy. I ponder on certain things: would American's (if under the Old Saddam Regime) want a chance to get-out of torture and murder of tens of thousands of People every year?; Are those Americans whom are trying to escape this issue in Iraq willing also to accept the TITLE of being a People who jump-in and jump-out for their convenience. Losing in Iraq will be the Second Loss (Vietnam the 1st) and the beginning of a New American Scenario on the World Scene = Cowards who abandon those they come to Free. I am a highly decorated disabled (Thank God lightly I guess!) Vietnam combat veteran who is against 'violence and war', whether this be between husband and wife, parent and child, children, friend and friend, stranger and stranger, or at national and international levels. Truth is: I am thankful, and proud, that I was there with those Grandparents, Parents, and Children who were being massacred because they wouldn't abandon their Creator's Gift of Being - as they were to be 'FREE to LIVE THEIR LIFE!?.
The TRUE CAUSE of violence is the FAILURE on the PART of THE MAJOR RELIGIONS to be trutful with regards to the OPERATIVE and REAL Structure of 'human vs. Spiritualityy'. If this was not held 'secret' throughout the centuries, violence may not exist at all; or at best at a minimum. Doubt me? Run 'red rose' through your research motors for awhile ...
I am personally against abandoning the Iraqi People (or any other 'People' in need). I do believe that a TOTAL and INTELLIGENTLY CONTROLLED CEASEFIRE is in order to at least attempt to arrive at MUTUAL SANITY in a NON VIOLENT MANNER. I regret that the Osama bin Ladin Offer was not confronted in a more intelligent manner by all Governments who use the "We don't negotiate with terrorists!" dogma to not at least discuss things face-to-face. Talking is not giving anyone anything! It is Wisdom and Intelligence at all levels!Further, I would like to hear them LIVE on the MEDIA statin exactly what is their problem. Maybe, their approach is wrong; however, maybe - just maybe -there is some sort of a viable basis for their frustrations that 'We the People' need to honestly look at with God Like Convictions and Sincerity.
I would like to see a mass email and fax campaign (like that of Terri Sciavo's defence) to force ALL GOVERNMENTs and INVOLVED FACTIONS (Terrorist Organizations included) to the CONFERENCE TABLES. I believe it is time when the People Support Each Other in a manner which at least gives a chance to resolving problems in a mutual and peaceful way. If 'man' alone is capable of this...
Posted by: Gregg | July 9, 2007 1:37 PM | Report abuse
War isn't pretty!
Flowers don't grow in it - but mny have grown freely after it.
It's not a 'Bush' Issue! It is a question that goes far beyond any one individual or honest political philosophy. I ponder on certain things: would American's (if under the Old Saddam Regime) want a chance to get-out of torture and murder of tens of thousands of People every year?; Are those Americans whom are trying to escape this issue in Iraq willing also to accept the TITLE of being a People who jump-in and jump-out for their convenience. Losing in Iraq will be the Second Loss (Vietnam the 1st) and the beginning of a New American Scenario on the World Scene = Cowards who abandon those they come to Free. I am a highly decorated disabled (Thank God lightly I guess!) Vietnam combat veteran who is against 'violence and war', whether this be between husband and wife, parent and child, children, friend and friend, stranger and stranger, or at national and international levels. Truth is: I am thankful, and proud, that I was there with those Grandparents, Parents, and Children who were being massacred because they wouldn't abandon their Creator's Gift of Being - as they were to be 'FREE to LIVE THEIR LIFE!?.
The TRUE CAUSE of violence is the FAILURE on the PART of THE MAJOR RELIGIONS to be trutful with regards to the OPERATIVE and REAL Structure of 'human vs. Spiritualityy'. If this was not held 'secret' throughout the centuries, violence may not exist at all; or at best at a minimum. Doubt me? Run 'red rose' through your research motors for awhile ...
I am personally against abandoning the Iraqi People (or any other 'People' in need). I do believe that a TOTAL and INTELLIGENTLY CONTROLLED CEASEFIRE is in order to at least attempt to arrive at MUTUAL SANITY in a NON VIOLENT MANNER. I regret that the Osama bin Ladin Offer was not confronted in a more intelligent manner by all Governments who use the "We don't negotiate with terrorists!" dogma to not at least discuss things face-to-face. Talking is not giving anyone anything! It is Wisdom and Intelligence at all levels!Further, I would like to hear them LIVE on the MEDIA statin exactly what is their problem. Maybe, their approach is wrong; however, maybe - just maybe -there is some sort of a viable basis for their frustrations that 'We the People' need to honestly look at with God Like Convictions and Sincerity.
I would like to see a mass email and fax campaign (like that of Terri Sciavo's defence) to force ALL GOVERNMENTs and INVOLVED FACTIONS (Terrorist Organizations included) to the CONFERENCE TABLES. I believe it is time when the People Support Each Other in a manner which at least gives a chance to resolving problems in a mutual and peaceful way. If 'man' alone is capable of this...
Posted by: Gregg | July 9, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse
What do you people think would happen if we left now, a perceived loss it the only thing that could possibly unite the terrorists and insurgents more. If they think they beat us it will only get worse. Also do you think we could possibly ever get a report on how much our soldiers kick ass?
Posted by: Ligster | July 9, 2007 1:13 PM | Report abuse
I am not surprised at all.
Bush and his yes men never ever knew what they were doing.
1. They failed to listen to their top mil. leaders. (The lied when they said no one spoke up.)
2. They sent all of our young men and women in to battle un-prepared.(They lied again said they were all aware of the difficulties)
3. They failed early on to adjust to what their field commanders were telling them. (They lied again and said they were never told how bad things were.)
General Schwartzkoff said some thing like this about Saddam Hussine. He is neither a soldier,general, or leader of men.
Well we can now say the same about Bush, Channey, and Rumsfeld.Only they do not have to suffer the same fate as Saddam no do they.
Posted by: noname | July 9, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse
How do you say Mogadishu in Arabic? The same poor intelligence, the same generals, the same Osama, and more importantly, the same Bush-named leadership got us into both quagmires, where our soldiers die not for the country's "freedom" but to protect one another (see Frontline "Ambush at Mogadishu").
Posted by: Francis Doyle | July 9, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse
The comments to this entry are closed.
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