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Iraq: Emerging Irreversibility

This morning Bob Woodward tells us about the day last November when the Iraq Study Group interviewed President Bush, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden and other key administration officials and received significantly different assessments of the situation. Bush said "A constitutional order is emerging." Hayden said "the inability of the [Iraqi] government to govern seems irreversible." The quote is attributed to written records of Hayden's briefing and the recollections of six participants. Given the centrality of the Iraq war to American political conversation, it is no surprise to find our readers weighing in heavily on this article today, but it is surprising to find the comments so heavily weighted against the war and the president's policies there. Comments on articles are certainly not scientific polls, but in the few weeks I've been doing this, the Get Out or Why Are We There? voices have come to dominate our readers' submissions on most Iraq-related stories.

But a story like this will also attract suggestions that its very publication is disloyal to the troops and a slap in the face of families who have lost loved ones to the conflict and suggestions that the news media should have known about this and reported it sooner.

cjjoy liked the story, writing "That man Hayden can sure give a briefing. It was the most lucid commentary on what's happening, and going to happen, that I've read. Not only that but I believe he got it dead right."

PutDownTheKoolaid said that "The story here is that Bush is radically out of touch with reality" and svreader complained that "Its astounding that this information was held back until now."

tjohn1 echoed those themes in writing, "If Woodward's story is true, Bush seems to be living in his own world apart from the real world of CIA. If Bush does not care for CIA analysis, what good is all the taxpayer money spent on the intelligence beauracracy?..."

And VoiceofReason wrote, "Confirmed. This newspaper is doing its very best
to anger the public. Why? How do you think the families of the deceased feel
when they read something like this? Despondent? Rage? Intense Pain?"

cpwash observed that "The CIA and others are making sure this time that they won't be the fall guy for Bush incompetance..."

President Bush's unfortunate choice of the word crusade in the early days of the War on Terror is recalled by book134, who wrote, "...Dubya was basically correct in his ignorant assessment a few years ago. This is basically a modern day religious Crusade (without the backing of the Pope,) and like Crusades of the past, this one appears likely to fail as well."

MPatalinjug is looking to the future when in saying, "...given the reality in Iraq today--which is still one of violence, chaos and anarchy--what is Gen. David Petraeus going to tell President Bush, the Congress and the American people come September? Will he do a Gen. Hayden and tell the truth? Or will he choose to be politic and say that the new strategy of surge is making some success, but that he needs just a little more time for the surge to do as expected?..."

Let's close with BuffaloJim57 a regular contributor of comments on Iraq stories, and one who is consistently supportive of the war effort. But he doesn't always shout, as he did today in several postings, saying "THIS IS ALL OLD PRE SURGE NEWS. WHY ARE THEY EVEN USING IT? WHY DON'T YOU JUST ADMIT YOU WANT THE TERRORISTS TO WIN THE WAR AND CALL YOURSELVES AL-JAZEERA... LIBERAL SCUM DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT OUR COUNTRY OR OUR TROOPS..."
His comments generated a string of jeers from others, some of them as unreasonable in their tone as BuffaloJim57 is in his. Unfortunately, shouting and an absence of reason are the state of too much of our national conversation today about Iraq.

All comments on the Woodward report are here.

By Doug Feaver  |  July 12, 2007; 8:52 AM ET
 
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Comments

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Posted by: lvmd rlydcgjsa | August 30, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: jvqcdbtu lwzh | August 30, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: jvqcdbtu lwzh | August 30, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Our soldiers have died to remind us of the dangers we invite when we do not question and scrutinize leaders who have repeatedly demonstrated thier incompetentcy and disdain for true democracy.
I trust the
true patriots among us will not let these brave men and women down next election and will reassure thier families that thier sacrifices were not in vain but were a necessary wake up call for this nation.
A nation that has come perilously close to losing our hard earned identity as just , lawful and conscienteous about our governments actions.

Posted by: BD Rollens | July 28, 2007 11:08 PM | Report abuse

How come so many people in this country have their heads so totally up their rear ends so they don't see what is going on. Have a look at what we are doing over there for crying out loud. The damage Bin Laden has done to our great country is so minuscule compared to what Bush and his gang is doing... so who is the real axis of evil? Or is he simply just stupid, I don't knoiw. They are no Republicans, in fact I see very few individuals in government that adhere to core republican values, not in congress and certainly not in the White House. I guess being an idealist is a thing of the past...

Posted by: Mike Johnson, Kihei HI | July 22, 2007 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Several people have commented showing concern for the families of the troops who have died, been wounded (physically or mentally), or who are in Iraq in harm's way. They blame the Post and other news media for their reporting of distressing news.

What they seem to forget is that Bush took this nation into a war for which there was no justification.

Iraq wasn't a threat to the US in any fashion. The UN inspectors' preliminary reports stated that they had found no evidence of WMDs including sites given to them by US intelligence.

Bush touts his support of UNSCR-1440, as he did today saying that if Saddam had cooperated and revealed his WMDs... Saddam did cooperate. So why have nearly 4000 Americans died and 60,000 been wounded?

As Jack Webb used to say, "just the facts."

Posted by: sbrager | July 12, 2007 9:04 PM | Report abuse

VoiceofReason

The paper is not trying to anger the people. They are attempting finally tell the truth of what is happening in Iraq.

How do you think the deceased families feel when they reads this stuff?....they are angry the Bush sent their loved ones to their death in cruel way!

All for the oil!

Posted by: Voice the world | July 12, 2007 8:30 PM | Report abuse

I have said for many years that we as Americans have more to fear from the Far Right (neocons and Darth Vader) than we have to fear from Communism, and I was right. The Bush regime has done more damage to this country than any other administration in our history, and it will take generations to right the ship. Sad. Sad. Sad - - and frankly very scary for the future of our great country.

I am a lifelong Republican and a 24-year military veteran. I will NOT vote for any Republican in 2008.

Posted by: Chuck Swanson | July 12, 2007 5:26 PM | Report abuse

The nightmare of military service is that you someday could find yourself under the command of an incompetent or irrational commander. In this case, the commander-in-chief and some of his people are consistently incompetent or irrational. It is time to relieve our faithful military servicemen from this endless grind and rebuild our drained army.

I believe that, even given the initial mistake of invading Iraq, we could eventually have "won" and left the place better than we found it, had a different president been halfway competent and accepted some of his best advice. These people have not accomplished a single goal, and could not even manage preparation and response to a hurricane. Such leadership will manage to defeat itself every time.

Posted by: Dennis Chamberlin | July 12, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, why doesn't anyone note the obvious? Our conduct in Iraq has been so heinous and egregious that Iraqis legitimately hate us and will continue to do everything possible to get us out of their country. They also know we invaded for their oil, and have no intention of signing it over to Halliburton, which is what Bush/Cheney are trying to accomplish in Iraq. That we allow them to kill and keep on killing innumerable people on our side and theirs, is tragically stupid and heartless. When are we going to realize our country is going down the tubes, and we haven't much time left to stop it?

Posted by: shaman7214@sbcglobal.net | July 12, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, why doesn't anyone note the obvious? Our conduct in Iraq has been so heinous and egregious that Iraqis legitimately hate us and will continue to do everything possible to get us out of their country. They also know we invaded for their oil, and have no intention of signing it over to Halliburton, which is what Bush/Cheney are trying to accomplish in Iraq. That we allow them to kill and keep on killing innumerable people on our side and theirs, is tragically stupid and heartless. When are we going to realize our country is going down the tubes, and we haven't much time left to stop it?

Posted by: shaman7214@sbcglobal.net | July 12, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

the dicission to withdraw from iraq is not in the hand of the administration nor the congrees . the present situation is similar to the situation of the british impiere post world war 2. the dicission to withdraw means the collapse of the amarican impiere, and staying in iraq will speed its collapse, all prevuos impieres in history took the secound chioce so i believe that usa will stay in iraq .

Posted by: tarekheba | July 12, 2007 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Many Americans are hooked by the notion that we cannot leave Iraq for fear of greater bloodshed and massive repercussion throughout the region. Now, as always, I view the problems in Iraq and in the ME as issues that we cannot solve, regardless of good intention or self serving interests. As a nation, the US has grown inept when it comes to resolving international crises. We are only capable of exacerbating them or starting them.

Posted by: J. Farber | July 12, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

As a totally disabled veteran myself, it breaks my heart to think that this sacrifice will be for nothing if we leave without some sort of stability plan in place.
____

Bush wants the Democratic Congress to come up with the stability plan because he isn't smart enough to come up with one and too stupid to listen to others who have come up with one. Bush will procastinate so he can dump it on the next Democratic administration to sort out, albeit with tons of criticism from the far right on how poorly the Democrats are doing at sorting it out. Naturally!

Posted by: janet.wright@vistacare.com | July 12, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I am weary of war supporters who try to silence dissent by yelling that anyone who says anything negative about the war is not "supporting the troops." I've got news for you guys: All the things government ISN'T doing because of the vast monies squandered in Iraq -- things like building new schools, new roads and new hospitals -- are sacrifices that the rest of us are making to "support the troops."

The question is, what are WE getting in return for our support? Is it worth it to make these sacrifices and maintain a huge army in Iraq just so that military families won't feel their toil and trauma have been in vain? My answer is, "Hell no!" Grow up and realize that the military exists to defend the nation, not to make its own members feel good about themselves. If this mission isn't making America safer -- and I defy anyone to show that it is -- it should be ended at once.

Posted by: setekh | July 12, 2007 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Why are we only now hearing that the nominal Iraqi government has no interest in forming a stable nation?

Posted by: Chris Fox | July 12, 2007 12:07 PM | Report abuse

More wasted lives, more wasted billions.

w and cheney should man up and resign like Nixon for the country.

Geez.

Posted by: getalife | July 12, 2007 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I hate this damned war. I have hated it since the beginning. Yes, our President is out of touch and always has been. Yes, the neocons running the government are dangerous idealogues that have drug us into this fantasy hell of a Western Crusade against the Islamists we ignored for fifty years and finally we must now deal with. Yes, we have made major mistakes and continue to do so. Yes, I want us out of the war.

But what do we do about the tremendous price that we have paid in dead and injured servicemen and servicewomen and hundreds of billions of dollars in lost treasure to finance this goddamned fiasco? As a totally disabled veteran myself, it breaks my heart to think that this sacrifice will be for nothing if we leave without some sort of stability plan in place.

Posted by: CWO3 Tom Barnes, USCG (Ret.) | July 12, 2007 11:01 AM | Report abuse

My succinct comment was the best.

Posted by: The Great One | July 12, 2007 10:49 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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