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Suicides and War

The Post reports today that suicides among active-duty soldiers in 2007 reached their highest level since the Army began keeping such records in 1980.

Our Readers Who Comment for the most part commend The Post and reporter Dana Priest for continuing to report on what happens to mentally and physically wounded soldiers returning from Iraq. They express sympathy for the individual around whom this story is built, call for a change in political leadership, improved patient car, and decry the fact that legal proceedings were initiated (then dropped) against the individual.

Some contend that such reporting aids the enemy and question the patriotism of the journalist and her news organization. And, as sometimes happens, commenters take the opportunity to issue boilerplate condemnations of the Iraq War, some of which are anti-Semitic.

The conversation on this article had mostly cogent, on-the-point remarks early on, but degenerated for awhile into the sort of incoherent and sometimes profane rant that makes old-line MSM journalists cringe and wonder why anonymous comments are permitted to go live without review. I wince myself, but I think it is useful to be reminded that hateful attitudes are out there. Further, hate speech in comment strings is almost always answered by others, part of the self-correcting process that goes with the open forum. Some comments have been removed by washingtonpost.com comment moderators as I write this morning, and others may well be before you read it.

The story, citing a draft internal military study, reports that 121 soldiers took their own lives last year, nearly 20 percent more than in 2006. A couple of comments have asked what the statistics for the general population would be for the same period; it would have nice to have had that statistic, but the increase within the military population is what this story is about, and it is significant on its own right.

Now to the comments themselves.

emainland said that "One-third or more of U.S. soldiers returning from Iraq have mental problems. That's not surprising. They've been asked to give their lives or futures or limbs or health to fight in an occupation that is illegal, immoral, unaffordable, unsupportable and indefensible..."

And there was this interesting exchange:

1. aldous wrote, "You know that by publishing this, you are emboldening Al Queda and being un American, right?"

2. ita8111 wrote, "...By releasing such information however relevant it "may" be, DON'T you think you are comforting the enemy specially at a time when we are at war? Just asking as such issues are best dealt with by the armed forces and have little to do with civilian life."

3. Bud0 said, "ita8111, you prove aldous correct. Sure enough, a Bush-cultist turns up to call for this news to be supressed... Where do you think Dana Priest gets his [Dana is actually a her] statistics? The Army Suicide Event Report is a regularly published, open publication... Because openness is a cornerstone of a free society. Because without a free, open society, what are you defending?..."

And claudedunger said, "Dana Priest is as much of a patriot as the guy walking point. She cares and will cover your back. The military and the administration would do well to learn from her. A thank you goes to Anne Hull too." [Anne Hull contributed to the story and was the coauthor of the original articles on the Walter Reed Army Medical Center.]
1/30/2008 8:49:31 PM

But WmBabbington wrote, "Dana Priest is a traitor--don't believe a word she writes."

And Schweg responded, "Guess that makes you a facist, given Ms. Priest's constitutional rights and propensity to tell the truth backed up by actual facts."

drjcarlucci asked, "What's the rate of suicide for non-military of the same demographic? That's the most important piece of context that's completely left out of the article. "News" out of context is trash, not information."

With that discussion out of the way, we'll turn to BlueTwo1 who wrote, "If I were a patriotic American driven to join the military... and my thanks was to be brought up on charges after the war drove me around the bend, suicide would seem to be an acceptable option. Not everyone is lucky enough to be an officer who believes war is a simple matter of troop movements and projection of authority."

rj2z said, "Let's just hope that this is the bottom for Lt. Whiteside [the individual on whom the story is built] and she is on her way up from here. She deserves a break, and she has given more to this country than most of us."

dotellen wrote,"I want to know if the superior officer who harassed her is going to be court-martialed."

jlk1 said, "We keep failing our soldiers. The ultimate sign of our failure is that they choose the option of suicide... It's time to replace the elected officials who led us into a war with lies, refuse to get our troops home and refuse to care for our troops who made it home."

nicekid added, "...
Thank you George Bush and Dick Cheney for destroying everything this once great country stood for. Not only do you have the blood of hundreds of thousands on your hands, you have broken the minds of some of America's finest.."

Eekeeley wrote, "Thank goodness they finally had the sense to stop the court martial. I guess the military's "no man left behind" doesn't count on a level deeper than the physical one..."

kinoworks suggested, "Remember, this is all just liberal bias. Just repeat after me until your mind is blank: the surge is working, the surge is working the surge is working until you forget that the surge is the attempt to make the best of the disaster that is Iraq, and failure that is Bush"

PaulBoyceUSArmyWashingtonDC wrote, "...It is crucial for our Soldiers to recognize that seeking help during times of stress is a sign of strength, not weakness. Leadership involvement is key to create healthy environments where Soldiers are encouraged to seek help..."

Frishoo said, "Tragic. Also tragic is the Post's continued efforts sway public opinion against the war. Where are the stories about young people who were positively impacted by their military experience in Iraq or Afghanistan?..."

But OIFdoc wrote, "As a physician serving in iraq, the answer to this problem is simple: It is time to leave this country. I have served 10 months of a 15month stint here and have seen absolutely none of the progress that is reported by the military command... Their is no "winning" in iraq."

Last word today to hoosiermandarin, who said, "It should be mandated that all commanders spend at least a week at a VA hospital walking the halls from midnight on. They should be required to submit a written report on all coversations held and be questioned by social workers or psychiatrists If they fail to learn an understanding this should be repeated until they do or removed from command."

All comments on this story are here.

By Doug Feaver  |  January 31, 2008; 10:00 AM ET
Categories:  Iraq  
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Posted by: kevin devoto | February 19, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

"show me the money" post was mine, too; inadvertently anonymous.

wasn't john allen muhammed an iraq vet?

when's the last time we discussed that fine returned warrior?


the horrors or war cannot leave a decent man undamaged. all war is indecent and a violation of the ten commandments, for what they're worth.

Posted by: bloggod | February 3, 2008 1:56 AM | Report abuse

who believes this?:

Lets keep in mind, the Military today is all volunteer. It's bunk that people are forced into the service by economic or any other factors. Also, it is even easier to get out of an enlistment..." ---USAF vet

bullcrud. lots of americans joined the Natl. Guard for the money. the recruiters have to sign a guy or two a month, or they don't get the company car and the cush job of being judas.

i have a recruiting phamplet that was being circulated in the year 2000. the cover is a big dollar sign and it says "Show me the Money."

it goes on to list the "great benefits" of enlistment.

my neighbor's son lost parts of both legs in iraq. he is a survivor and got to be great buddies with bush's PR crew.

there are thousands more who are NOT going to be survivors. they are disposable units of capitalism, sadly enough.

all vets, even of illegal wars, should receive premium health care; as should all mothers, fathers, children, keeping the flame of democracy flickering here at home.

where the National Guard SHOULD be, now.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 3, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

To say, like ita8111 does above, that this is not a civilian matter is entirely shortsighted. Tell that to our Vietnam veterans. The Army and the VA have put money into the program, but the policies it funds are archaic and ineffective.

To assert, like VultureTX does below, that this is an attack piece is to ignore the broader scope of the Walter Reed segment to which the article belongs. It's not attacking the war, it's exposing the shortcomings of our policies for wounded soldiers and veterans.

You don't have to be for or against the war to understand that, as a nation, we need to invest at least as much into the back end of a war as we do into the front end.

Posted by: John in Mpls | January 31, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"Frishoo said, '...Where are the stories about young people who were positively impacted by their military experience in Iraq or Afghanistan?...'

Probably vomiting the last of their blood on a dusty street next to their screaming mothers...

Posted by: Mobedda | January 31, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Don P., I think you have the numbers confused. The 20% increase in suicides was from 2006, not 1980. Here are the quotes from the article:

"Suicides among active-duty soldiers in 2007 reached their highest level since the Army began keeping such records in 1980..."

"Last year, 121 soldiers took their own lives, nearly 20 percent more than in 2006."

Highest since 1980, 20% higher than 2006. You can't extrapolate from these numbers than approximately 101 soldiers killed themselves in 1980.

I would also ask readers to keep in mind that the statistics here are only from one branch of service.

Posted by: John in Mpls | January 31, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I"f the totality of the Iraq war hits an unmedicated individual there are going to be serious mental health repercussions."
Posted by: John From Kansas


Note this msg was brought to you by the American Pharmaceutical Industry *wink*

Posted by: VultureTX | January 31, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

It's simple: You have to live with what you have done.

If the totality of the Iraq war hits an unmedicated individual there are going to be serious mental health repercussions.

Posted by: John From Kansas | January 31, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Suicide is societal problem, not one that weighs any harder on the Military than a Fireman, Policeman, Company CEO, Doctors, etc.

um, ok. That certainly may be the case in USAF. Try the Marines! That sh*t weighs on your mind a bit. I went to Iraq in 2003. Been shot at 7 times and mortared at twice. Saw enough dead bodies and pieces of dead bodies to last me a lifetime. I would be lying if I said that experience didn't change me mentally.

So the military is voluntary. In some ways I would agree with you. Did you know that a Staff NCO or an officer can shoot an enlisted person during time of "war" for not following orders? When I was called up, I received a letter saying show up or you will be charged with a felony. I had a friend chucked in the brig for not following orders because he was looking for his people's welfare. It is voluntary until there is a stop loss which happened to a lot of guys I knew that I got a combat action ribbon with. They weren't too happy about that. So, in some ways, I would disagree with you about how voluntary the military is once you sign the dotted line.

Anyway, I would be lying if I said the experience didn't change me a little mentally. Most of these posts, people can't help but be political but the real scope of this article are the troops coming back and not politics. Take a minute to talk about that instead of voicing your political agenda!

Posted by: Roger from Santa Barbara, CA | January 31, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

One more thing, If you think Viet Nam was fought to keep the commies at bay you are sadley mistaken, In 1959 threw the 1975, Brown and Root were drilling in the South China Sea, Somallia, did you really think Bush Senior gives a cap about starving Somalies? Bp had drill rigs off the coast punching holes, Stabillize the government in Somalia and we would have another Nigera. So you see it has always been about oil. or the bush word for oil, Our national intrest.

Posted by: RaferJanders | January 31, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Feaver said "A couple of comments have asked what the statistics for the general population would be for the same period; it would have nice to have had that statistic, but the increase within the military population is what this story is about, and it is significant on its own right."

Which shows that this is an attack piece. Never finding facts that put in perspective. But since supporting info would have shown how bad it is for US trooops in Iraq, this means the original article's authors were blinded by their zeal in saying "War is bad". And this brings nothing new to the readers. Of course war are bad. But they still happen. And whenever possible won.

Posted by: VultureTX | January 31, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Wait till they are 40, ptsd is real, I did not believe it was, It is real really really real, I use to be a blind believer, Not any more, As for the returning troops, The government is going to issue high speed low drag shopping carts, so you will have a place to store your stuff when you are homeless. Maybe like after world war 1, The doughboys got screwed out of there benefits, and they marched on Washington and held out in a shanty town in the park, Until the government sent in the roit police to remove them. How about all vets of all these last wars for oil, Viet Nam, Gulf war I , Somalia, and Afganistan, and Iraq, march on Washington and demand justice or we would put that good Army trainning to use. Ron Paul 08

Posted by: RaferJanders | January 31, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

The military conducts mandatory suicide prevention training. This training has been in effect long before the current war in Iraq, and it will continue.

Different individuals react to stress in their lives in different ways. Although one cannot predict suicidal tendency, one can observe patterns of behavior which might suggest that a person is more at risk for suicide.

During my 6 years service in the Army (as a Military Police Officer) I worked many different types of cases, some of which were suicides. Some were suicide attempts. Most often than not, suicide attempts occurred more frequently prior to deployments, during the time prior to actually "shipping-off". This was usually about 72 hours prior to actually boarding the plane.

Post-theater suicides occur at more unpredictable random intervals. Mainly due to post deployment leave. Soldiers returning from deployment are released on leave and for the first time, are alone. This time is usually when those who are predisposed to be at risk hit rock bottom. Dealing with the emotions from combat, (much of which is put on-hold while deployed) surge. Add in the now availability of alcohol (absent in theater) and alienation from friends and family (who may not be able to comprehend/understand) and isolation from your unit. Compound this with the beurocratic long wait times for claims processing in the VA, and you can clearly see.

Suicide is a multitude of factors. To simply knee-jerk react to sensationalized reporting is to comment on a matter which many individuals are grossly uninformed and unqualified to speak on.

Stand post. Serve your country. Then talk to me about suicide & soldier issues. Until you do, you have no merit with me.

Posted by: Byron | January 31, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

So denial must be patriotic.

Posted by: Lucifer009 | January 31, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

To paraphrase an old quote, " Figures don't lie but liars always figure." This kind of journalism drives me up the walls.

Loss of life for any reason is tragic. Our men and women overseas are doing a fantastic job and should be given the best medical treatments available regardless of cost. They are putting their lives on the line so we may remain free.

Having said that, LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.

How many troops were mentally and physically wounded in 1980?
How many troops were mentally and physically wounded in 2007?

Your are talking about 121 soldiers last year and approximately 101 soldiers in 1980. That is an increase of 20 soldiers.

Troops deployed from 2003 to present: 250,000 troops (invasion) 158,000 (current). Wikipedia, troop deployment in Iraq.

When you take into consideration troop rotation and temporary assignments, the actual number of soldiers that were deployed in Iraq could easily quadruple. When you compare those numbers with the overall suicide rate of non war veterans in the United States, you will find very little difference in the numbers.

Tragic? YES!, Epidemic? NO!

Posted by: Don P. | January 31, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

1/3 of soldiers coming from iraq have mental problems? What does that entail?

What percentage of troops coming from anywhere would have these "problems". For all we know, these mental issues include "homesickness.."

Posted by: The Ghost | January 31, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

i joined the usaf reserves in "69 while in high school so i would avoid vietnam.people who want to serve this country without dying for it in a useless war now have no choice as we are sending our reservists and natl.guard to these confilcts. i love the idea of this country but not the reality of this country. we [although i voted demo]have elected the current administration twice...we [including those soldiers] deserve what we ask for....fear and poverty have ruled our world since the dawn of time...it was bound to catch up with "the american dream"...my apologies to the revolutionary fathers of our country...me

Posted by: ntrpol81 | January 31, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I think what I'm reading is that people think the suicide rates are high because the war is unjust. Whether the war is unjust or not, this is an ignorant statement, because we don't know what the rate of suicide was in other wars. What about WWI or WWII? I expect suicide rates to be higher during war. War isn't a picnic, but I can't say what's unreasonable without something to compare it to.

Posted by: Shrapnel | January 31, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Basically our government is criminal, they have shown no respect for what our soldiers do, how out civilians live, and security of the country in general, all while destroying the constititution.

Not to mention the invasion of a soveriegn country and killing it's people for no good reason.

This arrogance is going unchecked until it will be much too late for anyone to undo what these current idiots have done. Both parties mind you. They both voted for the war! No opposition whatsoever save Ron Paul and a single democrat.

Stop the media from picking the candidates this time, Ron Paul vs. Obama would be the ideal win-win choice for America.

Posted by: Liberal-Tarian | January 31, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why people are so afraid to enter into real and honest discussions. Get over this fear of "comforting" the enemy and start taking a real hard look at what is really going on. There is nothing dangerous about taking a look at your self (i.e. The United States) and realizing that something may be wrong. Until we can start to do that we will continue this economic, international and domestic death spiral we are in. Remember, fear is our real enemy.

@Presidential Candidates: You may want to look at RonPaul2008.com ;)

Posted by: Chris | January 31, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Wow, everyone takes this whole message board thing so seriously.

I seriously doubt Al Queda reads articles like this and says, "see that!? HA! This country is tearing itself apart! I can tell by looking at this infidel message board."

You know, I hear tell that the terrorists have quite the suicide rate as well...

Anyone who reads this should take a hint and calm down, stop reading message boards and if you really want to make a difference and influence minds then don't do it in message boards. Wait, what am I doing?

Posted by: Fiat Lux | January 31, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Lt.Col. Grossman wrote "On Combat" which discusses the many feelings a combatant must face before, during, and after combat/war.

Our warriors require the appropriate tools to handle their justifiable feelings. The military medical staff also need the same.

It is our obligation to follow through and provide them what they need regardless of the cost.

This would be a tax I would gladly pay for...

Posted by: Charles James | January 31, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I think the current candidates offer no hope the for the US troops to return home.

I would say the main reasons USA had launched this massive invation into Iraq.

1. To Display Military Power.
2. To Rob Oil from Iraq in the name of Helping them.
3. To resell the Free Oil from Iraq to USA. thru US Oil Companies back to US citizens. This is known as Double Dip.
4. To Tripple Dip. Basically the war is funded by US citizens, tax payer money. By selling the free oil using the double dip strategy we now see the form of Tripple Dipping.
5. Make Elite of America more richer and the rest of the citizens poorer.
6. The current Government knows american people are stupid.
7. People are managed thru Media.
8. Media being Telivision.
9. Impose fear tactics on American people.
10. Estentially if all american people don't standup and fight their own government, this will repeat itself for generations to come.

Posted by: Presidential Candidates | January 31, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

According to http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention.shtml the general suicide rate in 2004 was 10.9 deaths per 100,000 people. I was unable to find statistics specifically for the active-duty military age range (20-35, approximately). But if that age group matches the general rate, and there are approximately 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, we would expect roughly 15 troop suicides a year -- nothing like 121.

Posted by: statsguy | January 31, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Lets keep in mind, the Military today is all volunteer. It's bunk that people are forced into the service by economic or any other factors. Also, it is even easier to get out of an enlistment than it has been in the past. Suicide is societal problem, not one that weighs any harder on the Military than a Fireman, Policeman, Company CEO, Doctors, etc... It is very easy to use information for any purpose. Its clear this article has an agenda....to sell it to a shallow media.

Posted by: USAF_Vet | January 31, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

The war in Iraq is being maintained by the Bush administration so they can maximise profits, believe me if they wanted out we would be our by now. This is the United State Army, we could easily be out if someone in washington had actually wanted us to be out.

Mission Accomplished.

Posted by: VoiceOfReason | January 31, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

you need to help the war plz so our family can come home

Posted by: cody deboard | January 31, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

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