When Laws Don't Apply

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As is true throughout human history, there are both composers and decomposers. Most often it is rather simple to determine who is who.

Kurt Turrell
Great Ideas Blog

"We encourage users to analyze, comment on and EVEN CHALLENGE washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features."

oooh! daring!

The great experiment is over. Welcome to fascism, America.

"Claiming opinions over-rule the law"...this needs to be sent to every cable news pundit. All we have are opinions on everything from signing statements to torture to war etc. Someone with a knowledge of law really needs to explain opionions vs. the law.
I have opinions about a lot of laws but I do not break the law. The same should hold true for those in an elected office.

The things I do and say are due to the fact that if I was treated like I should be I wouldn't have to say terrible things, but It is so morbid now I'm used to it. I am losing my faith in our country not by choice. I will continue to struggle but am taking note on what happens from here on out. So whatever is said about my family is wrong and I will not think help is on the way until I have my commission and earnest deposit given to me. otherwise I am to busy to help a lost cause .

The biggest shame is that we have elements at the top of our government who believe there is nothing wrong with breaking the laws of the USA or international laws and that the end always justifies the means and that our society has not been able to keep men like that from getting elected to office and eliminating them from public life.

What happens when Bush wants to stay in the White House? What are you going to do then? One should always look to where the little step are taking us to, or was it all done just to steal as much of our money as he could? We all have less money, less power over our lives and our good name is badly tarred. America how did we let this happen to you, to us.

This country is governed by politics and politics is governed by the wealthy, NOT by the people. The wealthy will have their gold, no matter what the cost to those they own. Are the people of this country being treated any different than the slaves were in 1808? We're fed, we're housed, and we're owned. The wealthy make they're own laws. Democracy? I don't think so.

Talk about 'strange fruit'...

if we don't put these self-anointed and self-justifying perverts (and not just Yoo, but to include the entire klaven of White House officials and their counsels and those at Pentagon and elsewhere who are complicit in this criminal disgrace) on trial, then we as a generation can take the walk of historical shame we will then deserve along with our ancestors who were willing (or silent) participants in Salem, Wounded Knee, sending our fellow citizens of Japanese ancestry to the concentration camps of Arizona and Idaho, and pretending not to notice as white-sheeted murderers hung black kids on trees.

for starters, how is it possible our legal profession hasn't begun disbarment against all of those directly involved in a clear outrage against the law and all notions of decency?

how can students of conscience allow John Yoo to walk about freely teaching law in Berkeley without some 24-hour procession following behind him hissing and holding up large signs reading "Shame!"?

When it comes to civic responsibility, the youth of today are apparently not worth a rat's bottom - nor are their fearful and miserable and morally corrupt parents who seem content to allow a shameful national disgrace to remain unpunished.

Good Lord; has come to the point where we Americans need to wear paper hats of shame over our faces whenever we go outside our national border? What a pack of jackals our noble founders have spawned.

[watch as this administration's apologist maggots feeding on our body politic try to explain how all of this is just 'partisan politics' -- yeah, 'partisan' alright, a case of human beings of principle against flagwaving criminal maggots]

"some suggest that Yoo should be prosecuted, presumably for having opinions others dislike."

What an utterly insulting comment... methinks you don't grasp the magnitude of the situation. I won't waste my time trying to lay it out... others have already done a much better job than I could do. But, I want to add my voice to the chorus of patriotic Americans who say that any defense of torture, even a subtly veiled defense such as yours, is unacceptable.

Don't be glib, this is not about Yoo having opinions we don't like. Such a casual dismissal of the seriousness of this matter is insulting to your readers. It gives the impression that you are corrupted by the criminal amorality into which our political and media elites in Washington have sunk so deep that they can't see how far gone their souls are.

The Nazis were the first to develop the euphemism of 'enhanced interrogation' for torture of people considered to be either domestic or foreign threats, with detailed procedures, regulations and legal framework. 'Enhanced interrogation' included most of the techniques the US is using now -- however, water-boarding was initially considered out of bounds even for the Nazis (although they did start using it as the war went on and, of course, for Jews, Gipsies, and other 'sub-humans' the rules were altogether different).

We sentenced and executed the people who set up the Nazi regulatory framework for 'enhanced interrogation'. If we are to keep with our own historical standards set a Nuremberg, why shouldn't Yoo and several other people in this Administration be candidates for death row? (I'd rather see the death penalty abolished, but this is a case where, for once, the deterrence argument might actually make sense.)

So, people are just NOW waking up to the fact that we now live under dictatorship??? Wow, we really ARE a stupid country!

I really don't know of a better argument against abrogating the Laws against torture than that which is presented in the film, "A Man for All Seasons." Below is the conversation between
Sir Thomas More and William Roper:

"Margaret More: Father, that man's bad.
Sir Thomas More: There's no law against that.
William Roper: There is: God's law.
Sir Thomas More: Then God can arrest him.

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!"

America is a Nation of Laws. If the Law of Mankind make it more difficult to get information from an enemy, and it doesn't really do that, then so be it. I therefore cannot agree with those in this comment line who would do anything to get information.

Mr. Yoo doesn't understand what it means to be an American and to follow American Law and international law. If this memo was sent to one of the many dictators our country supports and was leaked to the press, our President would be the first to criticize it as advocating barbaric behavior in violation of American and international law.

Btw, there are US soldiers who went to jail for doing what Mr. Bush and Mr. Yoo authorized(Pvt. Lyndie England, etc.). Why shouldn't Bush and Yoo be jailed also?

George Orwell must be smiling from wherever he is. He understood this issue so well. Someone in the Inner Party writes the rules and the Outer Party carries them out via the Thought Police. Room 101 exists and what's in it is clear. "You know what's in Room 101, Winston. Everyone does." Room 101 is "the worst thing in the world."

Well this country has been sent to Room 101 to face the worst thing in the world -- the destruction of the Constitution that shapes our country and the values that have informed what we do since 1789.

Memo To Leonard Downie, Jr.:
The word is TORTURE.
NOT "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques".
TORTURE.
If you are unable to understand the difference, then you need to find a new job...but then again, perhaps you already are working for Bush.

What the memo shows is that this Administration is comprised of individuals who have not gotten over Watergate.

During the Nixon/Ford Administrations, these individuals saw both the expansion and contraction of the concept of the "Imperial Presidency".

I find it gruesomely fascinating that these guys were ready to pounce with full force of their imagined powers when the 9/11 opportunity opened the way for them to exercise their wildest dreams. That of, unchecked power of the President.

The most ironic portion of this display is the methodology the Republicans chose.

As history notes, the Republicans sought to,and throttled the prior President via Impeachment using the very notion that "No one is above the law, not even the President".

It is obvious, that, that prosecution, was the shot over the bow, in their fight to recreate the Imperial Presidency, they were willing to illustrate the weakness of the office without such Imperial assumptions.

Which leads us to this next election, now that the Republicans have given this Imperial President powers that as yet have not been fully tested or their validity ascertained by our Legal system one wonders, how transparent their effort to diminish the power held by that office will be, should they lose it in the next election.

The ultimate irony would be for the next President to declare the former President an "enemy combatant".

I think I can read those powers into Mr Yoo's memo. How about you?

I wonder who wrote the memo authorising the firing of U.S. attorneys for political reasons? And who wrote the memo authorizing the use of wiretaps without getting warrants? The Bush administration violates the law and then finds some morally bankrupt lawyer to write a "legal opinion" that is in reality, little more than a flimsy cover story designed to give their lawbreaking the appearance of legality. I want to see prosecutions for anyone who violated the law under this administration, up to and including the President.

Mr. Yoo and Mr. Bush have provided a legal justification for dictators to torture their citizens. How can Bush or any US President credibly condemn such behavior without having this memo thrown in their faces?

What really, can we the public do about this? Sure we can exercise our priviledge of voting them out, but it doesn't really cover the damage already done.

The only thing I can compare this to is Germany, late 30's to mid 40's.

Is anyone else entertaining the idea that we may never, as a nation, recover from this travesty?

"Some suggest that Yoo should be prosecuted, presumably for having opinions others dislike".

This is an utterly tendentious misrepresentation. Yoo certainly should be prosecuted - not for "having opinions that others dislike", but for BREAKING THE LAW. It is ILLEGAL for a lawyer to provide fake legal reasoning to a client to give that client cover for manifest lawbreaking, and lawyers have been prosecuted for it in the past. (See http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/01/much-ado-about-padilla-v-yoo.html ). In Yoo's case the reasoning in his opinion is so bad, and so obviously designed to get around the clearly established law, that he could not have been offering it in good faith.

The alternative, of course, is that he was offering it in good faith, which might (conceivably) get him off the hook in a prosecution, but means that he certainly is not a good enough lawyer to be employed by Berkeley ...

Please. No one wants Yoo prosecuted for his opinions, they want him prosecuted for claiming his opinions over-ruled the law. He authorized torture for the love of Pete, is that so hard to condemn?

the good news:
The Memo was rescinded shortly after it was publushed.
The bad news:
It was republished in the form of the Abu Ghraib photos......

Washington Post writes with finger on hood of abandoned car:"Wash me"