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Immigrant Relocation

No subject The Post has written about in the past year generates more vitriolic and hateful comments from our readers than illegal immigration. Not presidential politics, not even the War in Iraq. This morning, Nick Miroff writes about the changes that have come to Prince William County, Va., as a result of an aggressive county government crackdown on illegals in that sprawling suburban Washington jurisdiction.

There are a few voices of moderation, but most of the those who have commented cheer the departure of many Hispanics, which they see as having been accompanied by the disappearance of overcrowded houses, loud music and and unkempt yards. Most dismiss as positives the loss of some businesses and the tax dollars they generated, the drop in real estate values and an increasing number of foreclosures on abandoned residences.

Several who live in other Washington area jurisdictions (Montgomery County, Md.; Fairfax and Arlington counties in Virginia) are asking why their local governments haven't taken a similar stance. Many cannot get past the fact that immigrants living here illegally are breaking the law (an estimated 12 million of them). And some point to the fact that this national problem is still very much in search of a national solution.

We'll start with Aristotlean, who wrote, "No reason to read more than the first 2 paragraphs of this article to answer that this is great for Prince William County. Those paragraphs confirm what we all know (but most are unwilling to say): if you import people from the Third World, you will in fact import the Third World. They don't leave their customs at the border..."

tds6599 said, " 'Hispanic (read, illegal) immigrants are leaving Prince William.' and the County will be a FAR BETTER PLACE for it. Thank God for real politicians who address real problems. It's a miracle. kudos PWC ... my hope in the world soldiers on"

dc_united_fan said, "...I do think its important to start cracking down on illegal immigrants. Its gonna be rough at first, but it has to start somewhere. My question to the angered legal hispanics is this. If you know your family and friends are planning on coming into the country illegally, why don't you discourage them and tell them to take the legal route?..."

steveincville wrote, "I've got news- the Hispanics have been driving the foreclosure crisis in Northern Virginia. This has been evidenced even in places like South Arlington! This is due to the irresponsible purchase of homes people cannot afford.."

Lavrat2000 wrote, "Lucky PWC - their county is losing its most undesirable residents -- illegal immigrants. May many more counties throughout the US learn from PWC and emulate them. Eventually we may get most of the illegals to head to their home countries where they belong."

But gorijenna said, "I'm all for cracking down on illegal immigration (it's illegal for a reason) but I am NOT a fan of the racism it's engendered, which is quite evident in these comments... And anyone who wonders why immigrants come here illegally rather than trying to find legal channels has obviously never been to the countries they've come from..."

two4three2 responded, saying, "...Stop making excuses for people coming here illegally. If they don't like that it takes so long to come here legally--that's too darn bad. If legal Hispanics don't like being taken for illegals, then they should work to end illegal immigration..."

thardman, wrote, "...I guess this might explain the policies in Montgomery County, Maryland. They don't want people to have good neighbors, and that's why they won't allow the local police to be funded and trained to enforce Federal (immigration) Law..."

woody2471 asked, "That is awesome!! How can we get some of that juice in Maryland? These people have already turned Langley Park, Wheaton, the once-mighty Blair High School and the length of Viers Mill Road from Silver Spring to Rockville into one big filthy East LA slum. If the county and state won't do it, is there any way regular Americans can be deputized to round them up and turn them over to ICE?"

Elephant111 complained that "...I am so jealous just knowing that this type of thing can never happen in Montgomery County. Our so called leaders are just so happy to welcome all the illegal trash leaving your area into our County and eager to spend our tax money on them..."

asmith1 said, "...Unfortunately for Faifax County legal residents, many of the illegals have taken refuge in the sanctuary haven of Fairfax County. Our BoS welcomes them with promises to look the other way as they avail themselves of benefits and services to which they are not entitled..."

hz9604 said, "Prince William should never have had to enact these laws. Illegal immigration is a national problem only. The illegals will just move to other areas to force more unnecessary laws and waste of time. Illegal immigration is illegal!!!"

KennyRay2 added, "Sounds like some other local jurisdictions should look at Pr William's plan. Too bad our federal govt can't do it's job..."

vixis wrote, "I have noticed a niceness now about Manassas, no more trashed yards...Thank you PWC for stepping up to the plate and putting your foot down to the illegals, now we need to get Fairfax County to do the same. We need to tell illegals that they are not welcome here, move somewhere else."

seenitallnow1 said, "People living outside this situation may want to believe this is bigotry but time will tell how you react when the influx hits your neighborhood and you can't let your kids play outdoors anymore or your daughter walk outside the house in shorts."

hradvocate took a different view than most in writing, "It's actually wonderful to see the economy in Prince William County collapsing so rapidly and so severely... Probably those of you who will most be hit by it won't ever even understand the link between your racist views and your economic collapse ..."

gitarre wrote, "...it is no great loss to the county's revenues when businesses that paid wages under the table... and pocketed sales taxes as well... go under..."

We'll close with bgallop1, who said, "Prince William's economy though struggling is doing fine, thank you... I am glad to see that other communities (Fairfax and Arlington) have taken up the slack and are now supporting all these "visitors" from south of the border."

All comments on this article are here.

By Doug Feaver  |  July 10, 2008; 9:25 AM ET
Categories:  Illegal Immigrants , Immigration  
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Comments

I have to agree with most posters. It's obvious that the WaPo has a slanted interest in this, and is clearly insinuating that if you are against Illegal Aliens, then you are a hateful racist.

I wish there truly was a non-bias rule in the media.

Posted by: LivinInLoudoun | July 23, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Stephen Colbert could go totally unnoticed in such a thread of comments! None of these commenters realize that comedians make a living repeating just what they said here?

By the way, I think we should jail for five years everyone who speeds above 65 mph. After all, it's ILLEGAL!

Sorry, I just had to have a go at it myself. It was fun.

Posted by: Mozza | July 18, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Thanks all. Vote Obama. He is NOT a muslim. Nor is he gay.

Posted by: Plato | July 15, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

It amazes me that there can be such righteous indignation from a nation of hypocrites. Do you not realize that none of you belong here?

I pray for the day when all of you are subjected to removal from this land, back to the places of your ancestors' origin. This is not your land. Go back to England, Ireland, Spain, Germany, Italy.

Leave this place to its native people.

Posted by: Chingachgook | July 15, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I lived in Europe for several years, when the police stop you and realize your not a native of that country they ask you for your papers, if you cant provide proof your in the country legally they arrest you on the spot. At the jail they give you time to get your papers, work things out if you really are legal. If in the end your not there legally they dump you on the next tuna boat out of the country, end of story. why are we different?

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Posted by: carrie | July 15, 2008 6:08 AM | Report abuse

"I am NOT a fan of the racism it's engendered,..."

I never thought we were a different race.

"If you believe in upholding the law you are a racist xenaphobe."

Not if you know where we will get workers to keep our economy going. Otherwise it could qualify as being stupid.

Posted by: Gary E. Masters | July 12, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Once, I thought that since we needed the workers, we were fortunate to have Mexico so close. The people have good families, strong work ethics and are basically good. However, since we put so much of our funds in houses (now gone) and are about to toss a bundle in the oil bubble, perhaps we need to get rid of the Mexicans and save the jobs for those who will not be able to retire.

Posted by: Gary E. Masters | July 12, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

But gorijenna said, "I'm all for cracking down on illegal immigration (it's illegal for a reason) but I am NOT a fan of the racism it's engendered, which is quite evident in these comments... And anyone who wonders why immigrants come here illegally rather than trying to find legal channels has obviously never been to the countries they've come from..."
*******************************************

1. Coyotes. Organisesed like major corporations, with branch offices and salesmen/recruiters in every significant locale. They are like travel agents, ready to take you NOW, selling the idea that illegal is better than legal, a sea of them between you and the consulate you apply for legal immigration that takes years to process.

2. We had a slew of different programs to bring in temporary workers, but only on paper. No one ever bothered to create the systems and manage a real temporary workers program. They simply looked the other way and let it happen 'illegally'..so much cheaper.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 11, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm still stuck at the start of all this.

mass immigration had been ended in 1929, we (the USA) felt we were full and the natural increase of our children would fill in the areas still lightly populated.

The country began to unify, the melting pot kicked in and ethnic neighborhoods began to shrink and disappear.

Then in 1965 it was decided by congress, w/o any consultation with the rest of us, to suddenly reopen mass immigration, shut off the border patrol, and begin advertising all over the world for immigrant/migrants. About the same time illegal drug ops took off big time, under cover of the CIA we all know the rumors.

Then of course there was the population explosion. We were all to be sterilised so we would not overpopulate the world. many people nobly aborted their children and tied their tubes, or submitted to hysterectomies - preventive medicine, of course- no welfare queens forcing the rest of us to look out for a American child. Sex ed in schools, teaching every which way to things except have children. They want us dead and gone you see.

Its all about money. It costs more to raise, feed, clothe, educate our children. Its smarter to have as few children born in the US, and instead have fully grown and educated adults move here instantly productive. The population is simply a convenient transient workforce, America is a Market Place, and goods are bought and sold, people come to work. There is no such thing as a "American", everybody is immigrant labor, though some have been here so long they forgot their true home and people, but they are not Americans either just deluded.



Posted by: Blueskies | July 11, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Doug, you do a good job with this blog, and the cross section of comments you provide today is no exception to this standard. Thank you.

I find it dismaying that such a complicated situation is being relegated to the simplistic argument of legality. We live in an unprecedented era of obfuscation of the rule of law, and yet seemingly all the outrage is reserved for this lone issue.

I understand that people feel deeply about this issue because, on some levels, it affects them personally. But weren't we also affected personally when our own telecommunications companies were spying on us illegally? Where are the hordes decrying the congressional flouting of the rule of law in this situation? If amnesty is a slap in the face of the law, then is not immunity at least a similar injustice?

I'm not trying to conflate issues or distract those who hold such fervent beliefs on the topic of immigration. I only mean to say that if we are to approach this argument from the binary position of the rule of law, then there are many other issues that should also draw our ire.

Posted by: John in Mpls | July 11, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

JP--apparently it is you who are not familiar with the various ways that immigrants can come to the US. There are at least 8 Temporary Guest worker programs up and running; how many different student visa programs are there? People from different nations can join the US military without being, or becoming, US Citizens. The list is a lot longer than space here permits. There is no excuse for these illegal aliens not to follow the law--unless of course, you advocate that the laws just be ignored ( as they have been)and that every illegal alien be granted legal status. I understand their desire for a better life--but I also understand the rule of law. Both can be satified if only they come here legally.

Posted by: Jarhead | July 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

JP, the only sense you made is that the immigration system is heavily bureaucratic and inefficient. Nobody should wait for years to be accepted into a country. It should be fixed.

That being said, that doesn't change one iota the fact the people should OBEY THE LAW. There are millions of people around the world wait patiently for their turn, and many do get rewarded eventually. Those are the ones we should welcome, not the ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Now, you say that the US has always opened its arms to immigrants. Yeah, but that was before the welfare state. If you came, you had to learn the language, assimilate, work hard, and love the country. There was hardly any government welfare. Now, it costs billions and billions of dollars to absorb poverty and corruption from other countries (especially Mexico). Many illegals live in their own segregated areas, loyal to their countries of origin and ignorant of the greatness of this one.

Most illegal aliens don't speak English, are a huge burden for us taxpayers, and don't assimilate and prefer to be loyal to their countries of origin.

Therefore, spare us with your condescending rant about how bad we are and how we should accept everybody with open arms. That doesn't make you morally superior. Do you know how illegals are treated in Mexico? In India? In China, for that matter? Compare them with US policy are you'll see we are extra nice.

You should direct your outrage against the governments these illegal aliens come from for not being able to offer them an environment of economic freedom and the rule of law.

Posted by: Hunky Santa | July 11, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

It seems to me that in reading all the posts regarding this controversial issue, all I read is bigotry, racism and ignorance. People commenting on this matter have no idea WHATSOEVER on what legal ways there are to coming to this country. People who are poor in their countries of origin cannot come over legally unless they are refugees coming from violent places or if they are lucky enough in obtaining a temp worker visa. You can't just show up at a US embassy and say "I want to live in the USA and expect for them to say...Absolutely! Fill out this form and that's it". So people decide to take the risk and do it illegally which is easier but entails breaking the law and getting caught and repatriated.
The people placing comments on this subject are ignorant about the realities of the people that come here. I do agree that a lot of these people seem to not want to assimilate better into our culture but hatred and racism towards these people are not the way. In the long run, we will need them more than you think. This will hurt our economy, just as it hurts Canada's by having such a hard time finding people to fill job openings.
Be good Christians and embrace instead of hate. DON'T FORGET that our ancestors also immigrated to this country in times where all these rules were not in place so, you could say they were also ILLEGAL ALIENS.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

Posted by: JP | July 11, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

"To Ali
Thanks for the correction. Perhaps I should have generalized my argument to blame all rapacious capitalists who operate in corrupt oligarchies in Central and South America and elsewhere. Maybe the answer is (dare I write the word) socialism.

Posted by: loyalsys | July 10, 2008 5:06 PM "

On the contrary, loyalsys--socialism's what MEXICO and other countries such as India and Turkey have had and are moving away FROM. The real answer seems to be what we have in the US--a mixed economy heavily weighted toward a free market economy, but with government providing some supports/protections, such as unemployment insurance (and hopefully healthcare).

As you point out, the REAL problem is CORRUPTION WHICH YOU FIND IN SOCIALIST AS WELL AS CAPITALISTIC COUNTRIES. The old Soviet Union was known for it, and so is the new one. When the culture of a country tolerates CORRUPTION then no economic system will work as it should. Turkey is known for corruption. So is Mexico. Respect for the law, transparent laws, and even-handed application of the laws are essential for business to succeed, local business as well as foreigners.

Posted by: Ali | July 11, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

All of this talk about not being able to "repatriate", or "relocate", or "remove" 12 million or so illegal aliens is becoming tiresome. It can be done, because IT HAS BEEN DONE before. During President Eisenhowers administration in 1954. Over 1.2 million illegal aliens were "repatriated", or "relocated" or removed from the U.S.
While it is no longer "politically correct" to give the actual, historical name of the operation, I'll try---It was called "Operation W-E-T-B-A-C-K. Check it out on Google, Yahoo, or anyother search engine. All that remains is for our government is to enforce the existing laws, and they (the illegals) would be gone.

Posted by: Jarhead | July 11, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

The USA,like the EU nations are at a zero population growth among its people.We no longer have 5 and 6 children.Abortion was once illegal,now its seen as a benefit.Illegals are having more and more children in this country everyday.We are being replaced in our own county.Our values that our parents fought and died for are being replaced by "that's just the way it is".When you use a moral argument against us it sounds like we are mean, hateful people,if you use atleast a legal argument to start,we can have a conversation.The fact that illegals are invading our country does not mean we should invite them to dinner.Our counrty is not for sale,our freedoms are for our civilians.We have ways for people to enter legally,our country was built by people who entered legally.The WW11 generation and their parents came to this country wanting to be Americans,they left their old life behind,learned our language,worked for families,and the betterment of he USA.They fought and died for our freedom.It is maddening to keep hearing this agrument about how illegals better our society.Jobs that once paid $20 an hour now pay $10.Our hospitals and medical systems are stressed from these people.We have the gangs from El Sa lvador(GS13)that are taking over many cities.We are paying to keep illegals in prison,many get released back into our society.The whole arguement has no merit.Legal and illegal are not the same thing.Yes an no are not the same thing.We are the point now in this country that everyone has their rights,we have people coming here to become citizens of this grea t country,then you hear about them wanting to change things to make them happy,we have changed school prayer,pledge of allegiance,ten commandments,Muslims don,t like dogs,Muslim cab drivers wouldn't pick up passengers with alcohol,on and on.Our courts and elected officials are rolling over everyday,turning our country into a refugee camp.This is just another way for people to live off the people of our country.We have enough people in this country receiving entitlements,we don't need more.

Posted by: conservmyusa | July 11, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

devilsadvoc8 wrote:"I am one of the few people who comment here that defend Hispanics. First I will say that I am for immigration laws but, not just when it benefits the rich. During this past decade we have seen people get rich off the sweat of these immigrants. Now that the bubble burst they want to get rid of them for they're convenience. I think people who have been here for 10 years without being convicted of a crime or taking very unfair advantage of the system should be given a faster road to citizenship. With that said my reason for defending hispanics on these boards is because I am hispanic. And most of the comments made here are direct insults to hispanics... illegal or not. "

First, the people who have been getting RICH off illegal aliens by exploiting them ARE THE ONES SUPPORTING AMNESTY. The employers get amnesty, too--and a cheap legal labor force. It's ordinary Americans who get scr-wed with depressed wages, lost job opportunities, and paying taxes to support the services illegal aliens use. As for defending Hispanics against insults, well, the presence of illegal alien Hispanics IS AN INSULT TO US. The fact that you think Hispanics should be absolved of following the law here is racist and violates every principle of fairness.

Posted by: Ali | July 11, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

"Several posters quoted by Doug seem to think all healthy noncriminal foreigners can move to America legally if they're just willing to go through some lengthy due process, but that's flat out wrong, and illegals know it. Green cards are severely restricted now, and your average poor Mexican will never qualify, for obvious reasons.

Posted by: jhbyer | July 10, 2008 5:40 PM"

Actually, MEXICANS have the best chance of anyone to move to the US because most green cards are given on the basis of FAMILY REUNIFICATION. If you have a US-citizen relative here (parent, child, brother, sister), they can sponsor you. Mexico is now the ONE COUNTRY sending the most legal immigrants, 15-20 percent of our total legal immigration for the past two decades. (The 1986 amnesty probably is the cause of this.)

Posted by: Ali | July 11, 2008 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Respublica wrote:"Illegal workers contribute 16 billion dollars to the Social Security Trust Fund which goes unclaimed. Are you a Baby Boomer, a generation X, generation Y? You will be racking up more medical costs since you will be living longer. Already, without a sufficient young workforce, experts forsee trouble for both these trust funds (Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson)."

The only way illegal workers will "contribute" to Social Security rather than be a drain on it is IF THEY REMAIN ILLEGAL. For that matter, $16 BILLION is less than 3 percent of what SS pays out in benefits EACH YEAR, so illegal aliens will hardly be the saving of SS. Poorly educated, unskilled workers are part of the working poor and if legalized would receive more in benefits proportional to what they put in than skilled workers.
Furthermore, illegal aliens are already straining our hospitals and clinics. And just how do you think illegal aliens will manage once THEY themselves become old, which is likely to happen more quickly, as physically demanding jobs are harder to do in old age than mentally challenging desk jobs. For that matter, because many of the jobs Baby Boomers do ARE desk jobs, we're able to stay on the job longer--provided employers don't subject us to age discrimination. Nor will illegal aliens be filling THESE jobs--most of us Baby Boomers have at least high school educations and more often college. Illegal aliens are lucky if they have grade school educations.

Posted by: Ali | July 11, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Spare us the lefty outrage and your bigotry, "respublica." The US is the largest recipient of immigrants in the world, and still their favorite destination. They contribute to the US' wealth because they appreciate and integrate into society.

Once again, the issue here is to enter l-e-g-a-l-l-y. Millions of people around the world have done so. Many have already been accepted, while others still wait (sometimes for years) for their application process to go through. Therefore, what illegal aliens do is not only against the law but is inherently unfair against those who follow the rules by applying legally.

The stance against illegals is not new, by the way. Many people in the US were against immigrants from Eastern Europe and China throughout the 18th and 19th century.

Posted by: Hunky Santa | July 11, 2008 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Suddenly a portion of Americans have become outraged at the illegality of the presence of illegal aliens on our soil? Why has there not been this outrage the last 60 years in which illegal workers have been toiling, vesting their sweat on the most undesirable jobs and contributing to our very high standard of living? You will say it is the numbers which have become unmanagable. With Baby Boomers Retiring, the United States native population will only be able to contribute 25% of the workers needed to sustain Baby Boomer Retirees and continue economic growth and compete in the global economy (U.S. Dept. of Labor and Reports on Medicare and Social Security Trust Funds 2007-2008). Illegal workers contribute 16 billion dollars to the Social Security Trust Fund which goes unclaimed. Are you a Baby Boomer, a generation X, generation Y? You will be racking up more medical costs since you will be living longer. Already, without a sufficient young workforce, experts forsee trouble for both these trust funds (Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson).Remember that when you hit the hardest years of your life on a fixed,uncertain income and not enough workers are paying into the system. Are you offended at the charges of racism leveled at you? It is not a coincidence that the greatest howl from the country, and the states with the most restrictive and punitive illegal resident measures have been the Deep South and the Bible Belt (Please Read the Article "Juan Crow" on The Nation Magazine). There is a historical pattern.

Posted by: respublica | July 11, 2008 4:14 AM | Report abuse

"No subject The Post has written about in the past year generates more vitriolic and hateful comments from our readers than illegal immigration. Not presidential politics, not even the War in Iraq."

Maybe that's because no subject the Post has written about in the past year has been more one-sided and biased than illegal immigration. All illegal immigrants are hard-working innocents who only want a better life for their family. None of them have illegal social security numbers or are committing identity theft or are breaking zoning laws or creating public nuisances with their loitering in parking lots waiting for their under-the-table jobs that undercut union jobs and legal wages. Everyone who opposes illegal immigration is assumed to be against ALL immigration and a racist to boot.

Maybe if there was more balanced reporting, there would be less vitriol. How about that, Washington Post?

Posted by: WashingtonDame | July 11, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

I guess the author thinks that if you can make money on something or someone, it must be a good thing. He probably supports drug dealing and prostitution in his neighborhood. Unfortunately, illegal immigration isn't a victimless crime. The reason so many live in overcrowded conditions is that they are paid as serfs since they are here illegally. So our author would like to keep this arrangement so he can keep his landscaping up at bargain prices..... If you don't have the skills to survive and thrive, you should stay home until you can. Check out most emigration polices of countries around the world where you better have needed skills and five years of savings before they'll let you emigrate.

Posted by: Joser | July 10, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

By way of clarifying my post below, let me add that neither can any American move to Mexico - or any nation - with the idea of just finding work. You need to be able to prove you have the resources to live independently, before you'll be allowed to settle legally anywhere. In other words, we're not asking anything of legal immigrants that their countries don't likewise demand of us. The exception, in all cases, is refuge status.

Posted by: jhbyer | July 10, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I actually thought this piece was unusually balanced, for the WaPo. True, they do blur the distinction between legal and illegal, and suggest that simply complaining about illegals is "hateful" and "vitriolic." But at least they're giving the anti-illegal side a pretty comprehensive airing -- and making it clear that a lot of citizens are righteously p.o.'ed. Maybe some sense will seep through to people with power to change things.

Posted by: liam358 | July 10, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Several posters quoted by Doug seem to think all healthy noncriminal foreigners can move to America legally if they're just willing to go through some lengthy due process, but that's flat out wrong, and illegals know it. Green cards are severely restricted now, and your average poor Mexican will never qualify, for obvious reasons.

Posted by: jhbyer | July 10, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

That there are, as Doug says, "few voices of moderation" is owed to their being no moderate position on the failure of the fed govt to enforce the laws it passed criminalizing employers of illegals. It's that exact failure that has created the conditions that draw illegals across our borders. Who can help but feel sympathetic to people so poor they had to leave their country to find crummy work, just to survive? I admire them for their bravery. That they're sometimes hated by those lucky enough to be born here is terrible but not the fault of natives who also deserve understanding by Doug. Americans aren't wrong to be angry at illegals for crime, noise and taking jobs, though the solution resides wholly with prosecuting greedy criminal employers and their corrupt politician friends.

This is a classic problem for which we instituted government and formed borders. Unlike the war on drugs this can be solved, because it's easy to cut off demand, in this case, for illegals, by prosecuting the users. Unlike drugs, people who routinely use illegals do so in the open and are required to withhold and pay taxes for them, making their apprehension and prosecution so simple it naturally makes law-abiding Americans angry.

Posted by: jhbyer | July 10, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

To Ali
Thanks for the correction. Perhaps I should have generalized my argument to blame all rapacious capitalists who operate in corrupt oligarchies in Central and South America and elsewhere. Maybe the answer is (dare I write the word) socialism.

Posted by: loyalsys | July 10, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

I am one of the few people who comment here that defend Hispanics. First I will say that I am for immigration laws but, not just when it benefits the rich. During this past decade we have seen people get rich off the sweat of these immigrants. Now that the bubble burst they want to get rid of them for they're convenience. I think people who have been here for 10 years without being convicted of a crime or taking very unfair advantage of the system should be given a faster road to citizenship. With that said my reason for defending hispanics on these boards is because I am hispanic. And most of the comments made here are direct insults to hispanics... illegal or not. These insults stem from racism. Now you have the people saying it's not aout race, yet the generalizations they make are sickening. Anyone who doesnt believe me can check comments posted by highwaysoccerblue (blatant racist) or patriot12(racist for his country) or roxy1 (actually threatens to start killing illegals). With that said can we uphold immigration laws without the racism? Not when there is people like these three around. And last I would like for the people who read these articles to know that this area is not full of hate (for the most part) as it seems on these boards. In Alexandria where I am a proud resident we have in our only high school T.C. Williams the flags of all countries, which means everyone is welcome, just like on Ellis Island where it reads

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Posted by: devilsadvoc8 | July 10, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

DAN Your the MAN-- 237pm post below- "No subject The Post has written about in the past year generates more vitriolic and hateful comments from our readers than illegal immigration"
----
That's because media outlets like WaPo and others try so very desperately to redefine the issue and in effect pander to the minority on this issue. I understand they want to increase sales to people they believe will be given amnesty in the future. But the reading public doesn't buy it.

-- It's the old case of believe what we tell you and not what you see with your own eyes everyday.

Posted by: ks | July 10, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

JP should also note we offer ways for a number of classes of illegal aliens to legalize. In other words, there is no need for a mass amnesty.

Illegal aliens who entered without inspection and later married Americans may have their spouse apply for a waiver of the ban, but the illegal alien must return to his/her home country to wait for it. Illegal aliens who entered legally can adjust status in the US through a US citizen spouse. US-citizen children of illegal aliens may sponsor their parents for legal status. There were also several mini-amnesties including 245i which ended in April 2001 which provided for employers or eligible US-citizen relatives to legalize illegal aliens. In short, there are a number of ways for illegal aliens to legalize, but they take time, effort, and money. They in essence put the illegal alien at the back of the line, and make them go through the legal processes they just didn't think applied to them when they came here illegally.

Posted by: Ali | July 10, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

"Most illegals are not "bad" people, just "desperate" people. Why do they come here and why do some of them live in overcrowded, trashy houses? And why do some of them deal drugs to affluent young Americans in better neighborhoods? Because most are desperate for money to send back home. And why can't they find jobs and money back home? In the case of Mexico, it's because the money made from the sale of Mexican silver and natural gas flows out to foreign investors instead of being plowed back into education and job creation for Mexicans."

You're simply wrong, Loyalsys. Mexico does not allow FOREIGN INVESTMENT or ANY private investment at all in its oil industry. That's the problem. The state-owned oil company Pemex has been using its revenues to fund the government instead of the government collecting taxes its owed. In consequence, Pemex has not be investing money in exploration and is on the verge of drying up, literally. Recent efforts by Pres. Calderon to allow private investment in Pemex met with demonstrations and resistance from Mexicans who view the company has a symbol of Mexican nationalism. The richest man in the world Carlos Slim Helu is Mexican. He got that way by crony capitalism. When Mexico privatized the telecomm industry, he got a monopoly. In short, Mexico's problems are a result of the decisions of MEXICANS and the corruption of ITS ELITES, not foreign investors.

Posted by: Ali | July 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"Well, we all need to admit there is no way to get 12 million illegals back to Mexico, so they should be given some status where we can collect taxes, fingerprint them to know who they are so when they commit a crime we can find them, and make lemonade since we have so many lemons. Any other discussion is just angry people trying to vent.

Posted by: JP | July 10, 2008 3:08 PM "

Here we go again--the false argument that we can't deport them all so must legalize everyone. First, we can deport everyone IF we choose to. Far better that they self-deport through enforcement against employers. Not all will do so, but enough to discourage others from coming and to make addressing those who remain "manageable". Second, legalization will not add to our security because it would actually divert resources away from anti-terrorist activities. Checks now are done on legal immigrants in their home countries. Even just the FBI checks take months and in some cases years because of the confusion over names. Just how easy do you think it would be to check on illegal aliens who have been using several aliases--and just why should we amnesty people who have broken laws IN ADDITION TO immigration laws. You know, those who have committed fraud, identity theft, etc.?
Finally, legalization won't address a key problem with illegal aliens: they simply haven't the skills or education to move out of the working poor even if they were legalized. Legalize them and they become eligible for earned income tax credits and other welfare and social services that they can't now access and that any taxes they'd pay would not come near covering. They'd also be able to bring over relatives who would add to the taxpayers' burden.

Posted by: Ali | July 10, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Well, we all need to admit there is no way to get 12 million illegals back to Mexico, so they should be given some status where we can collect taxes, fingerprint them to know who they are so when they commit a crime we can find them, and make lemonade since we have so many lemons. Any other discussion is just angry people trying to vent.

Posted by: JP | July 10, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Most illegals are not "bad" people, just "desperate" people. Why do they come here and why do some of them live in overcrowded, trashy houses? And why do some of them deal drugs to affluent young Americans in better neighborhoods? Because most are desperate for money to send back home. And why can't they find jobs and money back home? In the case of Mexico, it's because the money made from the sale of Mexican silver and natural gas flows out to foreign investors instead of being plowed back into education and job creation for Mexicans. What can local residents do about it? For one thing, you can vote for Barack Obama who talks about international trade policies that stimulate job growth overseas as well as here.

Posted by: loyalsys | July 10, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Good to see the results in PWC. Illegals in Loudoun are starting to feel the pinch also (god forbid that we actually check their status when they commit a crime). MD would appear to be the dump of least resistance because the libs up there are making the taxpayers pay for it.

Dear Marylanders - our loss is your gain. Enjoy!

Posted by: Dave in DC | July 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

"No subject The Post has written about in the past year generates more vitriolic and hateful comments from our readers than illegal immigration"

That's because media outlets like WaPo and others try so very desperately to redefine the issue and in effect pander to the minority on this issue. I understand they want to increase sales to people they believe will be given amnesty in the future. But the reading public doesn't buy it.

Wanna see the real future of illegal alien occupation? Simply look at California. Overrun with illegals. Only 8 percent of the population can afford an average house. Teachers unions complain when they are forced to teach math, English, or anything other than diversity. They have some of the best jobs in the country and no locals are qualified to fill them. And it's a dump, a banana republic, in many places more than 10 miles of the coast.

If wanting people to follow the law makes me a racist, then yeah, I'm a racist to the core. But it's equally racist to prevent immigration from other places (like Africa or Asia) in order to cowtow, pander, and debase national sovreignty to one group of people that didn't follow the rules at the outset.

Multiculturalism has downsides. America may not be the best, but bringing in other culture's problems doesn't always make America better.

Posted by: Dan | July 10, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I get that some racists are also anti-immigration but the bigger picture is that legal immigrants (like me) keep waiting for that US citizenship which never comes, while those who break the rules get it right away. One word - unfair

Posted by: Legal Immigrant | July 10, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"You all complain about charges of racism, but the majority of these posts contain sneering attacks on hispanics and blacks. So what's a reader to conclude?

Posted by: Roy | July 10, 2008 1:45 PM"

If anyone is "attacking" Blacks, it's proponents of illegal immigration who persist in equating the Black Civil Rights movement with the "plight" of illegal aliens who have no right to be in this country, much less to "civil" rights that by definition belong to citizens.

As for attacks on Hispanics, well, look at the title of this piece, chosen by the Post editors. Do they mean "Hispanics" or "illegal aliens"? Are Hispanic-Americans leaving? Are legal permanent residents of Hispanic origin leaving? Or, are illegal aliens of Hispanic origin leaving? Since PWC's law targets ILLEGAL ALIENS, the Post is assuming that any loss in population is due to the departure of HISPANICS and not any other ethnic group, even though all the "evidence" they present is purely anecdotal. Late in the article, the only real figures given have to do with the decrease in ESL enrollment and even the Post realizes that not all of this is due to just Hispanics.

All in all, the entire story belongs on the opinion page, along with the Post's pretense and former reputation of being a hard-hitting news organization.

Posted by: Ali | July 10, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"You all complain about charges of racism, but the majority of these posts contain sneering attacks on hispanics and blacks. So what's a reader to conclude?

Posted by: Roy | July 10, 2008 1:45 PM"

Did you bother to read the original article these comments are based on? The POST can't seem to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal aliens, or between illegal aliens and Hispanics, lumping them all together under the title "Hispanic". Given that the Post doesn't distinguish clearly among them, why should anyone else, including us?

The fact is, the Post is a cheerleader for illegal immigration, as these non stories about the decrease in the "Hispanic" population of PWC indicate. What is the news hook here that merits this story being on the front page of the Post? And why does the Post persist in not distinguishing between illegal aliens who are targeted by PWC and Hispanics? If there's any racism involved in this story, it's on the part of the POST. Note also that the posts that Mr. Feaver cites as evidence of racism refer very clearly for the most part to ILLEGAL immigrants or aliens, not to "Hispanics" per se. It's Mr. Feaver's biases and those of posters such as gorijenna who persist in equating "illegal alien" and "Hispanic". Apparently, the Post doesn't believe in honest reporting on this issue or it wouldn't blur the lines.

Posted by: Ali | July 10, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

If anyone can tell me how to convince Jerry Connolly and company that ILLEGAL means against the law. If the County of Fairfax is suffering a loss of revenue and the heavy influx continues we residents are just going to have our real estate taxes increased to pay for them and the many services they receive FREE!

If you know, please tell me.

Posted by: Fed Upster | July 10, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

You all complain about charges of racism, but the majority of these posts contain sneering attacks on hispanics and blacks. So what's a reader to conclude?

Posted by: Roy | July 10, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Feaver is amused with the angry unwashed. One can always tell the posters who live in walled real estate and high rise condos whose only possible contact with these serious social problems might be the loss of the "guy who cleans the pool' or the "nanny" we pay with cash. It's so easy to dismiss the little people as hateful racists and ignorant mean creatures if it isn't your neighborhood under seige and spray painted by MS13. Like everything else the mainstream media is missing right now, just keep looking down your nose at the little people from you insulated worlds. Your are almost as insulated as the Lords of the Congress.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

The illegal immigrants from PWC should be encouraged to move to PG County. Defenitely be an improvement over the current residents, and at least the new residents would have jobs instead of trying to make money dealing drugs or making a rap music album.

Posted by: Playa | July 10, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Where does Doug Feaver live? Maybe we could set up a flophouse next door and park a pick-up in the front yard. His opinion might change pretty quickly, at least within the safety of the voting booth. And on the pages of the WaPo he could still pretend to be his same high-minded self, having evolved beyond a small minded concern with legality.

Posted by: bjdouble | July 10, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Where does Doug Feaver live? Maybe we could set up a flophouse next door and park a pick-up in the front yard. His opinion might change pretty quickly, at least within the safety of the voting booth. And on the pages of the WaPo he could still pretend to be his same high-minded self, having evolved beyond a small minded concern with legality.

Posted by: bjdouble | July 10, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

What do you call an immigrant that came to this country legally, and yet is being declared 'illegal' because he did not reply to a request from ICE? The request that the ICE send it to an old address because they lost the change of address form he returned.

Posted by: immigrant | July 10, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"There are a few voices of moderation, but most of the those who have commented cheer the departure of many [illegal] Hispanics"

So moderation==wanting illegals to stay. And people say the Post is biased!

Posted by: qaz1231 | July 10, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Nice work PWC!

If the federal government won't enforce the law of the land, it falls upon state governments to do so, and if they won't do it, the responsibility falls on local government.

It's The Law, right .... or am I missing something...?

Posted by: Leominster, MA | July 10, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I'm 56 years old. I remember the days of Bull Connor in the South. The events in Prince William County remind me of that ugly period in our nation's history. You say they are here illegally. Ok. Immigration policy is the perview of the federal government. The white citizens of Prince William aren't enforcing the immigration laws. They are harassing and intimidating people out of their homes, just like some in the deep South of the 1950s. Its ugly.

Posted by: David | July 10, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Prince William County should be applauded for its stance against illegal immigration.

Read it again: ILLEGAL immigration.

The US is the country that welcomes the most amount of immigrants in the world. Apply legally, wait your turn, and we'll wait for you with open arms.

This is a nation of laws, and the law should be enforced. Welcome legal immigrants, not illegal aliens.

Posted by: Hunky Santa | July 10, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"There are a few voices of moderation, but most of the those who have commented cheer the departure ...."

I guess we know where the WaPo stands. If you favor extending a welcome to illegal immigrants you are an enlightened beacon of moderation. If you believe in upholding the law you are a racist xenaphobe. How about a "moderate" view that welcomes legal immigration regardless of ethnicity but will not tolerate illegals?

Posted by: Woodbridge VA | July 10, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

My approach comes from The Simpsons: "And, really, your only crime was breaking US law..."

Posted by: Franconia, VA | July 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

The Hispanic community was turning PWC into a ghetto. Prince George's, Montgomery,Arlington, and Fairfax Counties better watch out, these Hispancis will turn your communities into thrid world jungles. For the Good People of the Prince George's County you do not need these illegal immigrants in your community, you have enough thugs and bebe kids migrating from DC, you do not need the illegal immigrants.

Posted by: PWC Proud | July 10, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

The only problem I have with this is the Title and the assumption of "Immigrant Relocation".

No, no and more no...it is "ILLEGAL" immigrant relocation.

Washington Post keeps making this out to be something against immigrants. It is NOT. It is against ILLEGAL immigrants.

Man, get it right, will ya?

Posted by: TheBloddletting | July 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

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