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No partisan climate change on warming bill

Our Readers Who Comment are arguing about whether global warming exists, whether nuclear power plants are a good idea and the relative merits of the American political belief system because of a Post report that climate change legislation has no chance of passing the Senate unless some Republicans decide to vote for it.

As reporter Juliet Eilperin writes, "So Democratic leaders, with the support of the Obama administration, are trying to sway at least half a dozen Republicans by offering amendments to speed along their top priority: building nuclear power plants."

There is more than the usual political name calling. Democrats use the term rethuglicans to attack the other party and accuse their own for not getting anything done, a reference both to health care legislation and global warming. Republicans complain that all Democrats want to do is tax and spend.

We'll start with terrymulligan, who wrote, "So much political capital being wasted on legislation that effectively dooms the planet by encouraging inaction. Yes, it's unfortunate that most Republicans and a large portion of Democrats in the Senate can't support a climate change bill. Sadder still is the overall lameness of cap-and-trade. If this bill were to pass, I wouldn't bet on any significant progress in the direction of protecting the planet -- just more dealmaking and loopholes for allowing the damage to continue unabated..."

But maxpower99 said, "Global warming/ climate change is a hoax. The dems have decided they can't just honestly tax people anymore and still get elected, so the make this up and have the media try to sell it and get their energy tax under the guise of some save the planet/carbon credit bull5hit. This is a hoax, and I hope the writer is correct when she says it will die."

rspound21 suggested that "Cap and trade may or may not be a good idea, but nuclear power is a very very good idea and the only realistic way to bring down carbon output. It's worth it to accept cap and trade to get nuclear."

But lichtme said, "Of course gopers think nukes are the best way to generate electricity-- nukes are the most expensive and poisonous way to do it."

And mattislavin offered that "Nukes always cost more than advertised. We don't yet have solutions to waste disposal, and theft of fuel for use by terrorists in building a bomb is always present. Yet, they are no carbon. If it takes building more nukes to get a climate bill passed, I say do it, and we'll (hopefully) figure out solutions to waste disposal and fuel security..."

kavalair wrote, "If Congress passes this and health care, the middle class will cease to exist. These bills will tax them into poverty, which is what this administration wants. If people are hungry and poor, they will latch onto anything or anyone who offers them a handout, even if it means a total loss of their freedoms. This is the goal of Obama, make no mistake about it..."

robbird1 said, "At this stage it hardly matters. It won't matter to these legislators what happens 20, 40 or 50 years from now - they won't be seeking office, and most will be dead. Primitive organisms we humans are - driven by our urges for proximate benefits even at the cost of future survival."

B2O2 wrote, "Meanwhile, the pine beetle is decimating Montana's forest because of the recent rise in temperatures. Why are Republicans too stupid to listen to scientists? That's all I want to know. Why can't these people grow up?"

To which Peejay responded, "Well, when you're a grown up, you know to ask a few questions. For example, if we assume that global warming exists and is caused by human CO2 emission, a) how big a problem is it?, b) can we do anything about it?, and c) is the cost of doing something about it worse than the cost of letting it happen? Any of you big-brained Democrats got the answers? I thought not."

muawiyah wrote, "Climate change? You mean like the ones we've been having over the last 2,000,000 years. Every time you turn around there's another big ol'glacier painting everything down to the 40th parallel in a two mile deep pile of ice. Now how is Cap and Tax supposed to deal with that CERTAINTY?..."

TonyQ82 said, "I have little hope for a strong climate bill given the depressingly toothless health bill that's about to pass. Are these industry puppets in the senate really gonna just sit there and pretend there isn't a dire problem in need of solving?
The senate needs serious reform. We shouldn't need 60 votes, especially not of patrician industry puppets in an unrepresentative body, to get anything done in this country. I think the only hope is of Obama's EPA picks up the slack our useless Congress leaves on this issue."

ADNova wrote, "The democrats need to stop being babies and get on with it. Pass the bill, even through reconciliation if necessary. It's time they showed the republicans and the american people who's in charge..."

CarmanK said, "This really gets old. The democrats were elected to take on the tough issues and find solutions. The republicans have been taking the country in the wrong direction far too long. There is no excuse for not getting climate change legislation enacted. The health insurance reform debacle, has demonstrated the democrats lack the the will. So, the people were suckered... There is no room for more excuses, we have heard them all. Either make a difference or get out of office."

We'll close with athaskell, who wrote, "nooooo!! you are writing an opinion piece! You can't start your article with "...there is almost no hope for passage." Journalism 101 Juliet! And if you do decide to write an opinion, please get on the right side of history!! We need this bill!!!"

All comments on this article are here.

By Doug Feaver  |  November 2, 2009; 7:15 AM ET
Categories:  Cap and Trade , Global Warming  | Tags: Cap and Trade, Congress, Global Warming  
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Next: Readers debate election damage

Comments

well, to everyone but the elite and hollywood, Global warming has proven to be a hoax. rant all you want libby

Posted by: laughing_at_dems | November 3, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

"Let's see..."
Yes let's...

"-Carbon dioxide and methane levels are at record highs in Earth's atmosphere"

False. he levels of CO2 and Methane have been much higher in the history of the Earth. For most of history actually.

"-More frequent extreme weather than at any time in recorded history"

Also false. The weather at the moment is pretty tame.

"-Glacier National Park soon to be glacier free"

So?

"-Melting arctic sea ice documented to be rapidly accelerating"

The extent of Arctic sea ice increased by 10% this year due to the cooling climate, and increased by 10% last year, same reason.

"-Melting antarctic sea ice, same"

The sea and land ice in and around Antarctica has been increasing for at least four decades.

"-Greenland's ice sheet melting as well"

Apart from the fact that it is not.

"-Tropical diseases spreading faster than ever"

Clearly false. You in Washington used to have rather a serious Malaria problem. How is it now?

"-Oceans warming,"

Not according to the ARGO system, a world-wide network of 3200 temperature bouys deployed in 2003. The period 2003-2009 has shown a small, but distinct cooling of the seas and oceans.


"world's coral reefs bleaching & disintegrating."

The one just outside my door is doing just fine. Great Barrier Reef, QLD, Australia.

"Without coral reefs, entire planetary ecosystem (food chain) will break down"

And how will that happen? Not that the coral is in any danger.

"I guess we should just wait until the catastrophe is upon us...it worked so well for New Orleans and the American economy."

Building a city on mud below sea level is probably not the best example of civil engineering ever to have graced the planet. It is a trifle disengenious to blame that on 'Global Warming".

G'Day from North Queensland, Australia.

Why do I care what dumb Yanks think? My country seems to follow every bit of nonsense you people get up to.

Posted by: DAMNEDGENTLEMEN | November 2, 2009 2:43 PM

Posted by: addinall | November 2, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

ProveMeWrong-
OK supergenius, why don't you post some of your "facts" on how climate change is a hoax...or you could just explain that everything is fake and made up by liars some more.

Posted by: DAMNEDGENTLEMEN | November 2, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I'd be more concerned about global warming if it was actually happening. Inadequate computer models are nothing to lose sleep over.

Posted by: pkhenry
------------------------
Let's see...

-Carbon dioxide and methane levels are at record highs in Earth's atmosphere
-More frequent extreme weather than at any time in recorded history
-Glacier National Park soon to be glacier free
-Melting arctic sea ice documented to be rapidly accelerating
-Melting antarctic sea ice, same
-Greenland's ice sheet melting as well
-Tropical diseases spreading faster than ever
-Oceans warming, world's coral reefs bleaching & disintegrating. Without coral reefs, entire planetary ecosystem (food chain) will break down

I guess we should just wait until the catastrophe is upon us...it worked so well for New Orleans and the American economy.

Posted by: DAMNEDGENTLEMEN | November 2, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

DAMNEDGENTLEMEN:

Between your name, your comments and overall demeanor when failing, yet again, to provide facts leads me to believe that you need to spend a little more time reading instead of blogging...


Posted by: ProveMeWrong | November 2, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The usual brilliant reply from ProveMe Wrong, a tinfoil hatter who thinks that if he says it it must be true.
Too bad my tiny little example blew away the scaredy-cat smoke he's used to blowing up unquestioning followers' butts.
Run back to your panic room before the bogyeman gets you, teabagger.
Leave the problem solving to the big boys who look for solutions instead of quoting from the Karl Rove Big Book of Excuses.

Posted by: DAMNEDGENTLEMEN | November 2, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

DAMNEDGENTLEMEN

Do you have a point when you post? Or do you make it your duty to look stupid for the rest of our entertainment?

Posted by: ProveMeWrong | November 2, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I'd be more concerned about global warming if it was actually happening. Inadequate computer models are nothing to lose sleep over.

Posted by: pkhenry | November 2, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

ProveMeWrong
jjcrocket2

---------------------
Good afternoon, idiots...how about we make this simple? Let's forget about whether or not climate change is real and do a demonstration even complete morons can understand:
Step 1: Go to Los Angeles.
Step 2: Go outside.
Step 3: Open your stupid stupid eyes.

Next obvious problem that everyone but greedy fools that abhor change of any sort can see needs work? Oh, that's right, healthcare....
OK, Step 1:...

Posted by: DAMNEDGENTLEMEN | November 2, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing with so much information available on the internet that there are still so many morons out there not willing to read it. I guess if I library isn't an attractive option, what good is the convenience of the internet for info on the subject? I'm always amazed at how conservatives and "deniers" latch onto the wrong lessons, constantly. The Earth has natural warming and cooling cycles, yes. Volcanos, natural wildfires, and other CO2 producers exist, yes. Human beings doing things to add to this since we've been around (as have other animals and chemical processes), yes. The Industrial Revolution changed the rate to which the natural environment could absorb all of this activity without there being a major shift. Anybody arguing here should at the very least understand the greenhouse effect. This has intensified. Regardless of the cooling and warming trends, which by the way, will alternate for the same reason most things in nature do until it gets moved in one direction - inertia and momentum. The planet is dynamic based on a lot of factors - not just the distribution of land on the surface and its topography, but the movement of its wind and water currents, multiple point and nonpoint sources of human and animal activity, ability to absorb and deflect heat (which is related to a number of things), and diversity in the climates and species that aid in augmenting of such heat and greenhouse gases. However, just because it's big, doesn't mean it can't fall. 150 years ago, people thought they could build tall smokestacks to ease the downpour of soot and smoke onto their town - and they did, for the most part, but what they didn't realize at first was that they just transferred it elsewhere (or maybe they did, but didn't care because it wasn't their problem). Lighter, more pure gases like CO2 (with no particulate matter) can travel a lot farther (it doesn't all just disappear), but even the west coast of the US is getting the results of China's industrialization. There's no ambiguity about that kind of thing. THAT'S just an example of what you can SEE - imagine what you can't. It doesn't hurt to have the government working toward easing this problem, as other countries are working toward this, currently. We already know what *can* happen. Do we go into an irreversible situation, intentionally or try to prevent a catastrophe, because that's what it will be - or at the least, loss of life.

Posted by: fbutler1 | November 2, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I REALLY like the fact that the treaty Obama is about to sign in Copenhagen contains wording referring to turning over our sovereignty to a world "Government" who will then have control over out nations energy consumption forever...

Its not like its that hard to find online... Why WaPo reporters refuse to connect the dots for the stupid is beyond me...

Posted by: ProveMeWrong | November 2, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

WOW!! The climate changed since yesterday. Let's destroy our economy and society, because it stopped raining and the sun came out!!

Ridiculous? Of course! But, Al Gore expects you to think that way! The world temperature has gone down the past ten years children! Which is why this Marxist movement changed the name from "Global Warming".


Posted by: jjcrocket2 | November 2, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Is there a point in all this? Yes, the climate change scenario is a sophisticated tactic that feeds off the fears of the most gullible among us. Yes, nuclear power generation has it's drawbacks, like all things do. But the potential for catastrophe (bear in mind that the US Navy has been operating nuclear reactors in the most challenging of environments without significant issues for the equivalent of centuries) is far outweighed by the potential benefits. Nobody wants to spend their life behind a gas mask or drink poisoned water, but we can achieve our goals rationally and safely without the hysteria.

Posted by: tdavis11 | November 2, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I doubt that politicians will ever get it right. Overpopulation is the cause of our climate problems. "Overpopulation means that we are putting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than we should, just because more people are doing it and this is related to overconsumption by people in general, especially in the 'developed' world." "But, whether developed or developing, everyone is encouraged to 'want' and perceive that they 'need' to consume beyond the planet's ability to provide." Climate change was cited as the second most-pressing issue, with the need to develop renewable energy resources to replace fossil fuels coming in third. Rounding out the top 10 issues on the ESF list are overconsumption, the need for more sustainable practices worldwide, the growing need for energy conservation, the need for humans to see themselves as part of the global ecosystem, overall carbon dioxide emissions, the need to develop ways to produce consumer products from renewable resources, and dwindling fresh water resources. Suggest keeping up the issue at http:overpopulation.org or with the informastive free ebook series “In Search of Utopia” at http://andgulliverreturns.info

Posted by: coachoconnorucla | November 2, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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