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2.7%  Q1 GDP    4.57%  avg. 30-year mortgage     9.5%  Unemployment

Truer U.S. unemployment rate hits recent high of 17.5%

Each month, as regular readers know, I like to unpack the new unemployment number and get behind the data. The news this month continues to be grim. Indeed, it is climbing rapidly toward record-grim territory.

The official U.S. unemployment rate in October rose to 10.2 percent from 9.8 percent in September, the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday.

But the truer measure of unemployment -- a total count of everyone who should be working full time but is not -- hit 17.5 percent in October, the highest level in modern times.

The official unemployment number -- 10.2 percent -- represents only a certain kind of unemployed American. The Labor Department calculates the monthly figure with data provided by a rotating monthly survey of 60,000 households, which are asked specific questions, such as, "Have you looked for work in the past X weeks?" and by jobs data provided by employers.

You can take issue with the way the Labor Department highlights this survey, and I do. But it is a statistically sound way to count one segment of the unemployed.

That being said, there are two other numbers that paint a more accurate picture of joblessness in the U.S.

The first is the total number of people who are either unemployed, who are working part time but would rather be working full time and those who have simply given up looking for work because they are too discouraged by their bleak prospects.

That number rose to a whopping 17.5 percent in October, up from 17 percent in September. Think of that this way: During the Great Depression, unemployment peaked at 25 percent, meaning one in four Americans was out of work.

The Labor Department changed to its new unemployment survey method in the mid-'90s, moving to the narrower count that gives you the official number, or today's 10.2 percent. Which, by the way, is nothing to sneeze at. It's the highest rate since 1983.

Counts were obviously cruder during the Great Depression, but the 25 percent rate, reached during 1933, is analogous to our 17.5 percent today. Both numbers include the widest possible measure of unemployment.

Another measure of unemployment removes the people who are working part time but would prefer to work full time. They are not full-time workers, but they are working, albeit at a lower rate than they'd like.

For October, that number was 11.6 percent, up from 11.1 percent in September. Not as terrifying as the 17.5 percent, but still bad, and still a political headache for the White House.

Here's an analysis I did of the unofficial unemployment numbers in August, showing how this recession is pushing more people in to discouragement and part-time work at the highest level in 10 years, or as far back as the Bureau of Labor Statistics keeps apples-to-apples comparisons.

-- Frank Ahrens
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By Frank Ahrens  |  November 6, 2009; 11:03 AM ET
Categories:  The Ticker  | Tags: joblessness, unemployment  
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Comments

Just as the spector of a health care bill that will consume an estimated 40% of GNP the real truth of unemployment is concealed. The double whammy of massive inflation is probably going to occur in 2010 which will ensure that the financial problems continue. The 2nd QTR results will take into account the loss of bailout, clunker money and the result will carry over to the elections. It is telling that most if not all the major chain stores are already deeply discounting XMAS inventory. But the bright side is that after November 2010 election returns are in there may well be a 100% unemployment among current members of congress.

Posted by: KBlit | November 6, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Unemployment is at its highest since 1983?

So conservatives everywhere can celebrate. We're back to the golden age of Ronald Reagan!

Posted by: kenonwenu | November 6, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Nice job by Team Barry in the first 10 months of his presidency. Glad to see that he has implemented all that "HOPE" and "CHANGE". The way things are going, that's all we'll be doing is hoping for change....spare change, that is.

Well, on the bright side, 2012 isn't all that far off. Hopefully people will wise up and give this clown the heave-ho and make him a one-term wonder like we did with Carter.

Posted by: InsanePetunia | November 6, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

While trying to remain optimistic about a jobs recovery, I am starting to sense a death spiral for the American economy. All recoveries are essentially consumer driven, yet we continue to see thousands of workers lose their livelihoods each month. I cannot help but wonder at what point this becomes a non reversible trend and whole sections of the economy begin to collapse much the way the auto manufacturers did.

I fear there may have to be a return to WPA type programs to facilitate full recovery.

Posted by: hadenuff1 | November 6, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Note that the Wash PO routinely does NOT permit Comments on the regular breaking econmic reports, even when written by staff writers

you think this could change if and when there is ever any GOOD ecomomic news to help Obama

Posted by: ProCounsel | November 6, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

our economy is contracting leaving millions on an unemployment line...
it will take decades after it starts reversing itself for the damage to be undone...
see what letting fannie and freddie help give credit to those that should never have received it done...
shame on franks and dodd for not stopping this when they could...
shame on the American people for letting the dems get away with it...

Posted by: DwightCollins | November 6, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

obozo is the most incompetent POTUS we have ever had, bar none. He has no idea how a job or wealth is created. He thinks money just magically appears as it did when he was a community organizer. I am afraid reading a teleprompter is about as good as it gets with this man child. For that matter, has anyone heard any plan from the democraps on how to get the economy going? One in ten in umemployed now and 40 million are on food stamps. Congress is just hemmoraging money and taxes are going up. What do you obozo voters have to say for yourselves now?

Posted by: charlietuna666 | November 6, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Please consider an article on the startling statistic that there are 6 Americans LOOKING for a job for every SINGLE job opening.......

That is THE statistic.

Posted by: ProCounsel | November 6, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm horrified by this. Makes me sad. I'll take a pass at swiping Obama. This is bigger than him. I just hope everyone is able to hang on until things turn around.

For everyone who is out of work, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I am sure that something should be done. I'm not assigning blame, but I think that raising the minimum wage in the middle of a stalled economy was probably a bad move. For those who don't know, in 2007 the minimum wage was $5.15/hr, and now it is $7.25/hr, a 40% increase that occurred in the face of an economy screetching to a halt. I'm not going to blame all the unemployment on the increase in minimum wage, but what that did do was make it impossible for people to get "safe" jobs to tide them over until things improve.

While I don't think it would be a panacea, it might help people slow the drain of their savings, hang onto their house, and be able to live to fight another day. And even if the pay is meager, for someone who has been out of work, sometimes just having any job does wonders for your dignity and self-esteem. Truly there is dignity in work.

And if people are able to receive a paycheck of any size rather than drain their savings, it might improve the credit situation, and get a slow momentum going that might gain speed. At least one can hope.

Again, I do hope that things improve sooner rather than later. This is a non-partisan issue that needs to be solved.

Posted by: A1965bigdog | November 6, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

So, does this mean that the "TRUER" rate hit 15% when Bush left office?

I don't understand. Please explain.

So 15% of the 17.5% was actually created in the Bush years, just like $1.2 Billion of the current $1.4 Billion deficit was also created in the Bush years.

And...does that mean that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq also occured during the Bush years?

Please explain. I don't understand.

And...wait, are you telling me that the sorry state of the economy was caused during the Bush years?

I don't understand. Please explain.

I could go on and on and on...

Posted by: jsmith33351 | November 6, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

This is horrible. It's clear at this point that Obama's policies have not only failed to work ("won't top 8% unemployment"), they have actually delayed and weakened the natural upswing in the economic cycle. We're over two years into this downturn, things are still getting worse, and now we owe another $787 billion for that absurd "stimulus" plan that did nothing!

It's becoming increasingly clear that Obama is an incompetent narcissist, but it's just a shame so many people have had to suffer in order for us to find out.

Posted by: zippyspeed | November 6, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kenonwenu
So conservatives everywhere can celebrate. We're back to the golden age of Ronald Reagan!
*****************************************

I guess you aren't aware that Reagan was cleaning up Jimmy Carter's mess. He did an excellent job of it too and was rewarded by getting re-elected in a landslide. It was a real landslide and not manufactured by the press like Obama's. Reagan won all states but Mondale's home state of Minnesota and he lost it by less than 1%.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the failed community organizer strikes again!

Posted by: cschotta1 | November 6, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

It's all Obama's fault. He did not spend enough stimulus money to create jobs. He should have followed the Republican plan and done NOTHING so unemployment would be even higher.

Posted by: chucky-el | November 6, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: A1965bigdog
I'm horrified by this. Makes me sad. I'll take a pass at swiping Obama. This is bigger than him.
*****************************************

What you are saying is that Obama is in over his head and doesn't know how to solve our economic problems. He has done NOTHING that will create job grow or properly stimulate the economy. In fact, EVERYTHING he has done is making matters far worse.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

DEPRESSION OBAMA

who WINS??

is the question to ask,

because even Obama can not be stupid enough to really believe his socialist polies will work--as they have NEVER worked in recorded history

CREDITORS will win BIG TIME if there is not only DEFLATION but if we merely do not have any INFLATION

Loans will be repaid( or assets seized) with principal alone, forgetting interest, is worth more than was lent.

Its easy to analysize by considering INFLATION.

There DEBTORS or BORROWERS win big time as they pay back loans with dollars worth less, under DEPRESSION OBAMA the opposite will occur.

Posted by: ProCounsel | November 6, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Obama, Pelosi and Reid can't prop up the job market.

Welfare stimulus programs like union bailouts and phony government jobs will only create a business ghetto. The $787 billion "stimulus" failed. Printing more money to pay off supporters instead of creating real jobs will bring hyper-inflation, wiping out people's savings, retirement accounts, and furthering increasing unemployment.

Obama and Congress are so determined to control private business and our lives they don't care about the jobless.

Almost 90% of the jobless are blue-collar workers. Obama and the leftists want to pass Cap and Trade, which will force manufacturing out of the United States. They want to force through a $1.2 trillion public health "care" program that only covers one-tenth of the US population.

These power hungry politicians are out of touch with what's going on in the economy.

Posted by: bob59 | November 6, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jsmith33351
I don't understand. Please explain.
*****************************************

This how we can tell you are a liberal. Obama, Reid and Pelosi say the same thing.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chucky-el
It's all Obama's fault. He did not spend enough stimulus money to create jobs. He should have followed the Republican plan and done NOTHING so unemployment would be even higher.
****************************************

Obama was too busy paying back all his liberal paymasters with the Porkulus Bill. That bill had little to do with stimulating the economy and creating jobs. Now we all know this is true.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Another proud and historic milestone for Obozzo and his gaggle of tax cheating Czars. If they keep this up, no Americans will have jobs and we'll all be dependent on their meager handouts to keep us enslaved as they have done to Blacks for generations.

Posted by: Bcamp55 | November 6, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET IS........

only small business can restore unemployment

and Team Obama has declared WAR on small business with excess taxes, IRS harassment, choking regulation

HOW MANY ON OBAMA'S CLOWN CABINET EVER RAN A BUSINESS???

Obama--Stuck on Stupid

Posted by: ProCounsel | November 6, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

DOH ...

- Che Obama gave GM to the UAW loafbags for successfully wiping out GM

- Plans massive Government takeover of Health Care and $1.2 trillion in new taxes

- Gigantic Energy Tax - called "Cap and Trade" on the "Tree Stock Exchange" - rated by the "Monkey Index"

OBAMA - calls on small business to hire people - they are scared to death and want to survive.

- Would you get on a plane with a pilot that had never flow
- Get surgery by a doc that had never seen an operating room....

People are shocked a Community Organizer has no clue on basic economics

- Lower payroll tax
- lower capital gains
- lower corporate tax rates

vs.

Give Money to the Unions and Minorities - Genius - "The only problem with the Community is dat the Government doesn't send enough money."

Posted by: highkey11 | November 6, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

The core of the economic problem is confidence on the part of consumers and investors. And there can be no confidence when no one can be certain what new insanity will come out of Congress and the White House tomorrow. It could be Stimulus 3 for another Trillion bucks we don't have, or a new plan to force people to buy health insurance we don't want. Uncertainty stops everything, which is why a mere 10% unemployment will look rosy this time next year.

Posted by: Trucker49 | November 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

The "official" unemployment and inflation figures are as phony as a three dollar bill. Unfortunately many people probably believe the propaganda, not knowing who and what are conveniently left out when calculating the rates to try to fool people into thinking the economy is better than it really is.

Those who are employed part-time, but prefer to have full-time jobs should be included in a broader unemployment figure if they are working twenty or fewer hours a week.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | November 6, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Obama promised 7% cap if Congress passed his stimulus bill. He was only off by 10%.

Posted by: pkhenry | November 6, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

wow what a great time to pee away a trillins of bucks on a BS plan. Obama, your killing us!

Posted by: affirmativeactionpresident | November 6, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Please, please, PLEASE! Explain what special relevance the "true" unemployment rate has regarding this hit piece on the Obama Administration.

Posted by: st50taw | November 6, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Although the unemployment rate is now a staggering 10.2% - it would actually be 110.2% without the miraculous job savings and job creation in the loony-left d-crat socialist $800 BILLION PORKULUS.

The Marxist Messiah has saved us all from economic ruin!!! All praise TheOne!!!!

Posted by: LoonyLeft | November 6, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Scary, isn't it. I hope the new health care plan has a big subsidized public option to help all the people who have lost their jobs. I know the Republicans are overjoyed and in a way they are correct. They always accused the Democrats for wanting to redistribute the wealth. Well Obama has done that but he took from the poor and middle class and gave it away to the wealthy. They call it TARP.

Posted by: dfdougherty | November 6, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

No worries. If you look at it correctly, President Obama's stimulus bill saved 89.8% of jobs held by Americans.

Posted by: Windknot1 | November 6, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

There is a shortage of wheat in this country.

The economists explain that American companies find it more profitable to send wheat overseas.

The economists and government explain there will be more wheat for the country when it is more profitable for companies to sell wheat in this country than sending it overseas.

This will happen when the price on wheat sold in this country is equivalent to the price obtained by sending the wheat overseas.

There is a shortage of jobs in this country and companies are sending American jobs overseas.

If the economists and government acknowledged American jobs being sent overseas, they would have to acknowledge that this will continue until the cost of labor in this country is equivalent to the cost of labor overseas.

Over 2 million American jobs have been sent overseas, and every American job that requires sitting in an office and using computers and telephones is an excellent candidate for the business plan of American companies to send American jobs overseas.

Posted by: bsallamack | November 6, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: st50taw
Please, please, PLEASE! Explain what special relevance the "true" unemployment rate has regarding this hit piece on the Obama Administration.
******************************************

Hit piece?!?! Even the WaPo and NYT can't spin this one to help their Messiah. Blaming Bush isn't working anymore and Obama is clueless about what needs to be done to right the economy and create jobs. Obama, Reid and Pelosi are one trick ponies and that trick is marching us into socialism/communism/fascism. Collectively they have less common sense than a gnat.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Barack Hussein Obama is making Jimmy Carter look better every day. The "Obamanomic" czars are delighted and working frantically to conjure up another 10,000 jobs they saved while more people are unemployed. The porkulus-stimulus that was rushed through has surely stimulated the politicians earmarks and pork projects but created minimal jobs while driving multitudes more out of the country. We must brace ourselves for the years still facing us and we must vote all the democrats out of office ASAP. They are herewith served a "pink slip." This is the Hope you can count on? What hypocrisy and lousy leadership to boot.

Posted by: thinker5 | November 6, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bsallamack
If the economists and government acknowledged American jobs being sent overseas, they would have to acknowledge that this will continue until the cost of labor in this country is equivalent to the cost of labor overseas.
*****************************************

The real problem is that government is forcing businesses to move overseas do to excessive taxation and over regulation. American workers are the most productive in the world by a huge margin. This makes up for higher wages but companies can't continue to shoulder the ever increasing burden of government at all levels. Reducing the size of government is the only hope of bringing manufacturing back to the USA in an meaningful amount.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Americans are not going to forget that it was 8 years of Bush's tax cuts, his acquiescence to uncontrolled spending by Congress and his off-budget wars that set the stage for our current economic problems.

When the time-line is written for the history books, there will be no escape.

Posted by: st50taw | November 6, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: st50taw
Americans are not going to forget that it was 8 years of Bush's tax cuts, his acquiescence to uncontrolled spending by Congress and his off-budget wars that set the stage for our current economic problems.
****************************************

If it wasn't for the Bush tax cuts we would be in even worse shape than we are now. Excessive taxation is destroying this country along with excessive spending. You complain about excessive spending under Bush and then give Obama and the Democrats a pass?!?! It is people like YOU that are to dumb to see what the Democrats have done, and are doing, to destroy our economy and standard of living. I doubt people like you will ever get it.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

This didn't happen overnight, nor will it be fixed overnight.

This started in the late 90s and the US living beyond it's means.

Now we're paying the price.

Posted by: cavatellie | November 6, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

IF THIS IS A DUPLICATE, i APOLOGIZE.

The last time the unemplyment rate was over 10% was in 1983. Ronald Reagon, the Republican idol, had been President one year longer than Obama. How many Republicans at that time blamed Reagon for unemployment? Probably few, if any. Besides, the economy Reagon inherited was hardly worse than the one our previous administration left behind.

Posted by: mavrogordato | November 6, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Where's our modern Herbert Hoover, VP Biden-his-time, to lead a chorus of "Happy Days are Here Again?" Bet you a latte before the month's out, he's quoted as saying "things are looking up."

Posted by: srpinpgh | November 6, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

The productivity gains are a really good sign at least. It's an indication things are bottoming out. Some sectors have been hit worse than others too. It'd be nice if there were good numbers to work from instead of the voodoo that's usually published about this.

I'd like to see unemployment correlated against real food aid numbers.

Posted by: Nymous | November 6, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

While trying to remain optimistic about a jobs recovery, I am starting to sense a death spiral for the American economy. All recoveries are essentially consumer driven, yet we continue to see thousands of workers lose their livelihoods each month. I cannot help but wonder at what point this becomes a non reversible trend and whole sections of the economy begin to collapse much the way the auto manufacturers did.

I fear there may have to be a return to WPA type programs to facilitate full recovery.

Posted by: hadenuff1

*******************************************

I agree sadly. There's nothing the gov't can do to get us out with low interest rates and printing money. Big companies are laying off hundreds of thousands and rehiring in near-slave states. 70% of our economy is based on consumption. That will have to change and it's going to be horribly painful.

"There is a shortage of jobs in this country and companies are sending American jobs overseas.

If the economists and government acknowledged American jobs being sent overseas, they would have to acknowledge that this will continue until the cost of labor in this country is equivalent to the cost of labor overseas.

Posted by: bsallamack"

mack gets it too. I wish the right wing would wake up. This isn't some petty partisan joke; all the funny posters in the world aren't going to bring jobs back to our shores.

Posted by: theobserver4 | November 6, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

H1N1 is probably somewhat good for the hiring economy. There's people taking leave in an unplanned manner as a result, and that always causes chaos. The chaos that results from it lets management game out what it's really like not to have workers they "depend on" really not there.

It's always a better proposition to lay someone off on paper than it is to actually do it, and companies end up losing when they do it. There's always a loss component to a layoff, and when there's a pile of absences that fall outside of "the plan" it kicks built up group think hard.

Posted by: Nymous | November 6, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

I'd say unemployment (the true number) is 50%.

Posted by: blakesouthwood | November 6, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Obama. YOU LIE!

Posted by: rg019571 | November 6, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and that goes for Nancy Pelosi, too.

Posted by: rg019571 | November 6, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: mavrogordato
The last time the unemplyment rate was over 10% was in 1983. Ronald Reagon, the Republican idol, had been President one year longer than Obama. How many Republicans at that time blamed Reagon for unemployment? Probably few, if any.
*******************************************

Here is the BIG difference, Reagan enacted measures to improve the economy. History proves this to be true. What measures has Obama enacted to improve the economy? I can answer that for you.... NONE! In fact, Obama is pushing socialism/communism/fascism down our throats. Anyone that thinks Reagan would be so dumb as to have the federal government own companies like AIG, GM and Chrysler and then give the UAW a 20% ownership stake in GM and Chrysler are smoking crack.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: theobserver4
I agree sadly. There's nothing the gov't can do to get us out with low interest rates and printing money.
******************************************

If these sad sack Democrats don't know how to get us out of this mess then we need to throw them out and elect people that can. The fact is the LIBERALS running the country are drunk on their own power and can't see past their own socialist/communist/fascist agenda to do what needs done to get us out of this mess. Instead they are furiously digging the hole deeper.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: theobserver4
mack gets it too. I wish the right wing would wake up. This isn't some petty partisan joke; all the funny posters in the world aren't going to bring jobs back to our shores.
******************************************

Cutting taxes and regulations on business and killing off unions are the only things that will bring manufacturing jobs back to the USA. We need to be competitive with other countries whose governments aren't choking the life out of their business sectors. The Democrats don't have the guts to pass the laws that need to be passed to solve the problem. They can't afford to pi$$ off the unions, trial lawyers etc.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Ronald Reagan and George Bush PUT US ON THIS PATH (PERIOD).....

Now all of a sudden the news media wants to do their jobs! You guys know we were at 8% actually by 2006....

EVERYONE KNOW BUSH HAD DUMMIES WHO ONLY KNEW HOW TO "SCAM" EVERYONE....

THEY OPENNED UP A BUNCH OF TEMPORARY AGENCIES (JOB PLACEMENT) AND BUSH ECONOMIC ADVISOR WERE COUNTING EVERY TEMPS JOBS AS A "HIRE"...

I HAD WORKED FOUR JOBS IN ONE MONTH...WHAT WAS SO WEIRD WERE MOST OF THE PEOPLE OUT OF WORK STARING IN 2005 WERE "BLACK WOMEN OVER THE AGE OF 45"

GEORGE W. LIED LIED LIED AND LIED ON EVERY BOOKKEEPING THAT CAME ACROSS HIS DESK...

AND THE MEDIA NEVER MENTIONED OR CHALLENGE HIS AS THEY DO TODAY!!!!

Posted by: danders5000 | November 6, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bsallamack
If the economists and government acknowledged American jobs being sent overseas, they would have to acknowledge that this will continue until the cost of labor in this country is equivalent to the cost of labor overseas.
*****************************************

The real problem is that government is forcing businesses to move overseas do to excessive taxation and over regulation. American workers are the most productive in the world by a huge margin. This makes up for higher wages but companies can't continue to shoulder the ever increasing burden of government at all levels. Reducing the size of government is the only hope of bringing manufacturing back to the USA in an meaningful amount.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 5:14 PM
.....................................
Please enough of these myths.
The difference in wages between American and India and China are twenty to one.
On this basis alone American corporations would be sending American jobs overseas.

It is interesting that Germany with high taxes, government spending on social programs, and probably higher labor costs than the United States did not abandon manufacturing as was done by the United States, and that Germany with these high costs is now the largest exporter of manufacturing products in the world.

I can assure you that Germany would never consider sending German jobs overseas for cheap jobs since they would know this would be economic suicide.

The economy of Germany with high taxes, social programs, and high wages will be able to survive.

It is questionable whether the American economy will be able to survive business plans that are economic suicide.

Posted by: bsallamack | November 7, 2009 3:34 AM | Report abuse

NONE! In fact, Obama is pushing socialism/communism/fascism down our throats. Anyone that thinks Reagan would be so dumb as to have the federal government own companies like AIG, GM and Chrysler and then give the UAW a 20% ownership stake in GM and Chrysler are smoking crack.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 6, 2009 6:33 PM
..................................
More myths. AIG which cost the government far more money than GM and Chrysler combined was taken over before the election of the President.

Why do these discussions always turn into political party food fights with myths?

Posted by: bsallamack | November 7, 2009 3:42 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: bsallamack
Please enough of these myths.
The difference in wages between American and India and China are twenty to one.
***************************************

Do you really think that wages alone is what makes companies in the USA less competitive than China, India etc.? Stop thinking one dimensionally and you make get a clue as to what our problems really are when it comes to competing globally. Taxes, regulations and unions are what is causing jobs to leave the country.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 8, 2009 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: danders5000
Ronald Reagan and George Bush PUT US ON THIS PATH (PERIOD).....
*****************************************

Actually it was that raving lunatic Jimmy Carter.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 8, 2009 1:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: bsallamack
More myths. AIG which cost the government far more money than GM and Chrysler combined was taken over before the election of the President.
*****************************************

Actually, AIG made a profit the past quarter. GM and Chrysler will be sucking off the government teet for years to come or until the Republicans take control of Congress in which case it might be a year.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 8, 2009 1:31 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: bsallamack
Why do these discussions always turn into political party food fights with myths?
****************************************

It happens because liberals have no common sense.

Posted by: MikeJ9116 | November 8, 2009 1:32 AM | Report abuse

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