Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
2.7%  Q1 GDP    4.57%  avg. 30-year mortgage     9.5%  Unemployment

Economic data out today suggest economic recovery cannot continue without government help

UPDATED at 4:16 p.m. with market closing numbers:

A raft of bad economic data out this morning pushed Wall Street toward its third bad day in a row, though stocks trimmed some of their earlier losses.

A terrible home sales number combined with weak construction spending and manufacturing data paint a picture of an economy that cannot recover without a sustained and substantial infusion of government cash. Not that I'm arguing for that.

The Dow closed down .42 percent at 9,732.53.

The broader S&P 500 closed down .32 percent.

The tech-heavy Nasdaq closed down .37 percent.

May pending home sales dropped 30 percent compared with April after the government subsidy homebuyer credit expired at the end of that month. Translation: Only government money was propping up the housing market, which cannot recover on its own.

According to the National Association of Realtors, the index number of buyers who signed contracts to buy existing homes in May came in at 77.6, down from 110.9 in April, as homebuyers rushed to take advantage of the government dole. Forecasters expected the index would drop to only 98.4.

Record-low mortgages are doing nothing to get people to buy homes. The 30-year fixed mortgage rate, released this morning, dropped to another historic low of 4.58 percent.

An index of U.S. manufacturing activity dropped in June to 56.2 from 59.7 in May, according to the Institute for Supply Management, which tracks the sector. The decrease also surprised forecasters, who expected it to remain unchanged. Any reading over 50 indicates an economy in expansion.

Finally, May construction spending fell for the fist time in three months, as -- basically -- government money ran out. With the end of the homebuyer credit, homebuilders stopped building homes, understanding that people would stop buying homes. In the public sector, work on infrastructure projects fueled by government stimulus is starting to pull back.

The big takeaway? It's becoming apparent that this recovery, which began in March 2009, was based almost fully on government stimulus. The private sector has failed to kick in because it doesn't trust the future. Without private sector money in this economy, we can do one of two things: deflate and contract, and we know where that leads -- deep recession and possibly depression; or approve billions in new stimulus, which will only explode our already massive public debt and budget deficits, which was dragging states down one after the other.

Glad I'm not making the decisions.

By Frank Ahrens  |  July 1, 2010; 4:16 PM ET
Categories:  Wall Street  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: June auto sales: GM, Ford down 13%, Chrysler down 12%
Next: June unemployment rate drops to 9.5 percent but 125,000 jobs lost

Comments

The big takeaway? It's becoming apparent that this recovery, which began in March 2009, was based almost fully on government stimulus.

===========================================

And you, the government, and all collecting checks to report has been lying to us the whole time.....Thanks alot...

I have been telling people this whole time, 'Brace for the Depression whenever the government stops dumping $$ into the economy'......

Talking about arriving late to the table.....Start thinking for yourself...All this stuff added up correctly, but everyone was afraid to tell the truth....It started with Bush and continued with Obama.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 1, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

What's it all mean?

It means that our country is being run by a political hack -- a Campaigner and Chief and his Capitol Hill Political Class Windbag Groupies: Reid and Pelosi. He is an inexperienced, ill-equipped narcissist. Without a doubt, he totally out of touch with America and economic reality.

Posted by: JAH3 | July 1, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

What actually happened yesterday and today is that the stock market broke through a major resistance level. That is likely to mean another significant movement down. But it is not clear at all whether this movement is just a real correction to the extreme uptrend we saw from March 2009 through April 2010 or whether it marks the start of some longer term bear market trend.
In any case, most of the chatter from economists just adds confusion. The short to intermediate term is very uncertain. But the longer term reality is obvious to anyone who bothers to look at the history of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Our economic memory only stretches back to 1929. Since that time there have been five economic periods. Two of them were extended economic booms. One extended from around the end of World War II through 1966. The other extended from 1983 through 2000. The other three periods have been times of economic problems.
We live in a rapidly changing world. None of these economic periods have been the same. Nor is there any history of government having any ability to get from a time of economic problems to a time of economic boom. The world stumbled through the 1930's without finding a way to create an economic expansion. All of the claims about what would have happened if mistakes had been avoided are just that.
Our current economy is suffering from a variety of problems. Some of them are the result of the excesses of the last boom made worse by the Clinton and Bush adminstration economic policies. Others are the result of the rapid rate of technological change of the last 30 years. Yet others are the result of the fading of 500 plus years of European imperialism.
Some forms of stimulus can help us reshape our economy and reduce the problems. But the blunt force stimulus like that used following the year 2000 stock market crash would just repeat the disastrous results it induced. That history is surely far more relevant than anything Paul Krugman or Ben Bernanke imagine happened in the 1930's.

Posted by: dnjake | July 1, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

With respect to the economy, Barack is so TOTALLY out of touch with reality that his mental stability should be subject to professional review. Greg Neubeck

Posted by: gneubeck | July 1, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Right now Renewable Energy Jobs account for 60% of all USA direct Energy Industry Jobs. At only 5% of Energy Generation, Renewable Energy employees over 60% of Energy Workers (over 770,000 direct Jobs compared to 1.27 million in Oil and Gas). That’s 60% of Direct energy Industry Jobs without Poisoning and Wasting Trillions of Fresh water supplies. Renewable Energy Industries are the only game in town for Doubling and Tripling employment in Energy generation and in creating Products we can export and sell to the World.

Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"The big takeaway? It's becoming apparent that this recovery, which began in March 2009, was based almost fully on government stimulus."

Alternate takeaway: Where is the vaunted Keynesian multiplier? Stimulus spending gives GDP statistics a bump in the quarter in which the outlays occurred. But then nothing. Think Census workers.

Every dollar of government stimulus is a dollar that otherwise would have been invested directly in the private sector. If the sole purpose is to "stimulate" the economy would it be better to invest that dollar directly in the private sector (by buying a CD or a corporate bond or a share of stock) or loan it to the government (by buying a Treasury bill or note)? It's the private sector that creates the jobs and tax revenues that make government jobs possible in the first place.

Posted by: mad_tiger | July 1, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

A warm welcome to the Glenn Beck Goombahs and the Free Market fantasy League.

Posted by: sasquatchbigfoot | July 1, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

so where's the homer-buyer extension into 2011??

Posted by: EdSantaFe | July 1, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

when you are living beyond your means contraction is inevitable- the ONLY question is how is that achieved. The stimulus was IMO the equivalent of trying to plug a levee breach while the water is still rising and pouring through. More often than not the water will win and the resources used will be wasted. A better strategy to is to use a stimulus to lift the economy after a contraction not in trying to prevent an inevitable contraction.

Posted by: rds7481 | July 1, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't help when the President ignores Americans and worries about illegals. And, it doesn't help when the Congress ignores unemployed Americans. And, it doesn't help when the Supreme Court wants to turn the country into a free-fire zone.

But, the top 1% are happy, and, that is all that counts.

Posted by: rusty3 | July 1, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

It means Obama and this administration are a complete flop. Come Nov. things will be set straight.....

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

It all means that government stimulus WORKED and that we continue to need GOVERNMENT STIMULUS or else...!

Posted by: dc1020008 | July 1, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

It ought to be obvious, by now, but this country is being flushed down the toilet by the free traders in Washington and New York. No country has EVER survived the outsourcing of it's manufacturing and technological capacity. Rome fell because of it. The French Revolution resulted from it. And Weimar Germany was crushed as a result of it. If these fools keep it up, and I assume they will, they will contribute to the creation of an All American Hitler, because the voters, already 82% of them, want free trade ended, want to bring back trade tariffs, duties, fees, punitive taxes on investors, that offshore jobs, that have their goods or services produced offshore. It's as plain as the nose on your face — the average hourly cost of an Indian or Chinese worker is $0.91 an hour. It takes three to five times that amount just to pay for the infrastructure cost of a US worker. Now, I am assuming that you will not tolerate raw sewage running down the streets, don't want police replaced by armed troops, don't want to do away with healthcare for the poor and middle class, don't want children sent down sewer pipes to clean out blockages because it is cheaper than machinery, don't want to end public education, and are willing to allow our highways, electrical grid to fall into rubble due to lack of maintenance, do not want an oligarchy running the country, so you are going to have to have that infrastructure money. Likewise, due to the differences in food and housing costs, no US worker can even survive on the wages that Indian and Chinese peasant earn... or even ten times it. But we allow, we encourage!, companies like Apple and Dell and IBM and GM to move their manufacturing and jobs to those countries. We do not charge them on dime in duties, tariffs, or fees. Apple drop ships their new Mac's from Shanghai directly to the US. I don't even think the government tracks or otherwise knows how many of them end up here. The same is true of clothing, shoes, kitchen appliances, automobile parts. You cannot even find a pair of shoes not made in China any more.

It may be a mystery to you, Mr. Ahrens, but it isn't to us. This country is being systematically gutted by both the government and by private industry. The government found our jobs to be a handy bribe with which to buy support for whatever foreign policy nonsense is popular at the moment. Fools like President Obama apparently believe that this systematic gutting of our jobs and manufacturing capacity is somehow creating a tied together and, thus, more peaceful world. Corporations, especially big corporations, are caught up in a competitive suicide run where they must chase every lower production costs, not for lower consumer prices, because those HAVE NOT been a result of outsourcing, for for greater investor returns, especially greater returns for the public employee pension fund Ponzi schemes, but also for blind greedy executives that have established outlandish compensation packages as their "due".

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 1, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Right now Renewable Energy Jobs account for 60% of all USA direct Energy Industry Jobs. At only 5% of Energy Generation, Renewable Energy employees over 60% of Energy Workers (over 770,000 direct Jobs compared to 1.27 million in Oil and Gas). That’s 60% of Direct energy Industry Jobs without Poisoning and Wasting Trillions of Fresh water supplies. Renewable Energy Industries are the only game in town for Doubling and Tripling employment in Energy generation and in creating Products we can export and sell to the World.
Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse
LOL more lies from lieride…. How much do you want to bet he’s collecting unemployment????

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

It ought to be obvious, by now, but this country is being flushed down the toilet by the free traders in Washington and New York. No country has EVER survived the outsourcing of it's manufacturing and technological capacity. Rome fell because of it. The French Revolution resulted from it. And Weimar Germany was crushed as a result of it. If these fools keep it up, and I assume they will, they will contribute to the creation of an All American Hitler, because the voters, already 82% of them, want free trade ended, want to bring back trade tariffs, duties, fees, punitive taxes on investors, that offshore jobs, that have their goods or services produced offshore. It's as plain as the nose on your face — the average hourly cost of an Indian or Chinese worker is $0.91 an hour. It takes three to five times that amount just to pay for the infrastructure cost of a US worker. Now, I am assuming that you will not tolerate raw sewage running down the streets, don't want police replaced by armed troops, don't want to do away with healthcare for the poor and middle class, don't want children sent down sewer pipes to clean out blockages because it is cheaper than machinery, don't want to end public education, and are willing to allow our highways, electrical grid to fall into rubble due to lack of maintenance, do not want an oligarchy running the country, so you are going to have to have that infrastructure money. Likewise, due to the differences in food and housing costs, no US worker can even survive on the wages that Indian and Chinese peasant earn... or even ten times it. But we allow, we encourage!, companies like Apple and Dell and IBM and GM to move their manufacturing and jobs to those countries. We do not charge them on dime in duties, tariffs, or fees. Apple drop ships their new Mac's from Shanghai directly to the US. I don't even think the government tracks or otherwise knows how many of them end up here. The same is true of clothing, shoes, kitchen appliances, automobile parts. You cannot even find a pair of shoes not made in China any more.

It may be a mystery to you, Mr. Ahrens, but it isn't to us. This country is being systematically gutted by both the government and by private industry. The government found our jobs to be a handy bribe with which to buy support for whatever foreign policy nonsense is popular at the moment. Fools like President Obama apparently believe that this systematic gutting of our jobs and manufacturing capacity is somehow creating a tied together and, thus, more peaceful world. Corporations, especially big corporations, are caught up in a competitive suicide run where they must chase every lower production costs, not for lower consumer prices, because those HAVE NOT been a result of outsourcing, for for greater investor returns, especially greater returns for the public employee pension fund Ponzi schemes, but also for blind greedy executives that have established outlandish compensation packages as their "due".

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 1, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

A lot of people understood that housing prices hadn't come down enough, and that as soon as the tax credit was withdrawn, they were going down again. For those that didn't understand this, the tax credit probably pulled forward enough demand to artificially prop prices up by an amount greater than the $8k limit.

I look forward to buying when the market has finally corrected.

Posted by: msully25 | July 1, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

>Every dollar of government stimulus is a dollar that otherwise would have been invested directly in the private sector.>

Highly doubtful. Mortgage rates are at record lows--there doesn't seem to be any crowding out effect. A stimulus which really began investing in clean energy and building things we need anyway would have done more good. Unemployment is hurting private spending--its a vicious circle. You can break out of a postive gain feedback like this with investment, but the author is right--austerity is the wrong move right now--look at 1937. Those who keep freaking about debt (which is a medium and long-term problem) seem to think running an economy is the same as running a household. There is always an answer which is simple, straighforward. . . and wrong. Austerity is that answer. We know what the outcome of that will be. We should look for win-win-win scenarios, such as investing in clean energy, improving infrastructure while borrowing costs are low, etc. Republicans are pushing anti-deficit propaganda because they know that if they can pull the economy back into another dip that voters will punish the Dems. Where were these deficit hawks when Bush started two wars and cut taxes for the ultra-wealthy?

Posted by: scientist1 | July 1, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

It is becoming obvious that we should have let the market and consumers decide on the winners and losers. We should have let the system work. All the government did was to delay the obvious and waste trillions in the process. You cannot spend your way out of debt. You cannot pretend that government jobs are the same as private sector, business created jobs. We have to stop the nonsense in November.

Posted by: nvlheum | July 1, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

The coming economic train wreck is doing wonders for focusing the mind. The collapse of home prices is inevitable as they were created by the demands of a huge Boomer generation that began entering the housing market in the early 1970s. That entry was facilitated by a massive credit expansion by the FED in concert with unwise tax and assistance programs by government that were more a sop to the real estate industry than a benefit to homedebtors. This generation has now passed its household formation years and its misplaced belief in housing as a store of wealth is about to be severely tested as the succeeding generation of potential homedebtors lack both the income and employment prospects to support the prices demanded by sellers. The true believers among the Boomer generation now approach the finish line with most still carrying mortgage debt on a depreciating and illiquid asset.

Posted by: slim2 | July 1, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

A drop in sales doesn't seem all that surprising. There was artificial spike due to the tax credit. The tax credit is over. The distribution of sales that would typically have been spread over the next few months was front loaded.

The time-sensitive incentive is gone, so those who don't HAVE to buy right now are waiting to see how this affects prices -- ie, will there be another correction now that the artificial prop-up is gone? Seems likely.

So isn't it kind of inflammatory to categorically state, "the housing market cannot recover on its own"? We haven't tried yet, and it isn't going to happen instantaneously. The circumstances have changed, and the shake-out won't be immediate. A prudent person WOULD wait right now to see if there is another drop in prices, as those prices are going to more accurately reflect the true correction that was necessary. A low mortgage rate won't inspire everybody to run out and to pay a sales price that they think is too high.

Posted by: AnnieDC | July 1, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

"What the home sales data means"

Dear Post copy editors:

The word "data" is plural.

Posted by: FrancisMacomber | July 1, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

It is becoming obvious that we should have let the market and consumers decide on the winners and losers. We should have let the system work. All the government did was to delay the obvious and waste trillions in the process. You cannot spend your way out of debt. You cannot pretend that government jobs are the same as private sector, business created jobs. We have to stop the nonsense in November.

Posted by: nvlheum | July 1, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Without something to curb outsourcing, "private investment", will merely continue the flood of capital investment out of this country, creating jobs and new factories in China and India and elsewhere. In a world where the *total* cost of a worker's hourly wage is less than one dollar an hour in Asia, we simply cannot compete. Either we enact stringent curbs on offshore investments, on imports of all types, or we are lost.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 1, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Market and consumer "confidence" can only be sustained so long on government/media happy talk and doctored economic numbers.

In the end, nothing engenders confidence so much as a solid balance sheet and a solid currency. The rest is nonsense, and always will be.

Posted by: ian807 | July 1, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Worst. President. Ever!

He'll go down in flames In Nov 2012.

Posted by: waterfrontproperty | July 1, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"The private sector has failed to kick in because it doesn't trust the future."

BULLS EYE!!

They don't trust Obama. "What's next?" they wonder.

Instead of from the beginning focusing on private job growth -- not transfer payments -- he instead got into the health care bill, etc. The Fed did what it could but can't transplant the presidency.

How can this nation elect such back-to-back lemons like Bush & Obama?

Posted by: crumppie | July 1, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Yet another columnist pandering to the
Rabid Republicans who are responsible for the current nightmare. The truly pathetic part of this whole thing is that the GOP (who have become professional obstructionists from the Head-Up-My-Ass School of Economics) would be only too happy to see the USA go into another depression in the hopes they'll weasel their way back into power. As despicable pond scum go, they're at the top (or should I say the "bottom") of the heap.

Posted by: Bushwhacked1 | July 1, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Hide your money folks, the big shakedown by the liverides and sasquatchbigfoots currently running the show will be coming soon.

Posted by: pyellman | July 1, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Data show the economic recovery is sustained by government money dependency on the Feds. Take away the insidious Obama stimulus money and the economy will collapse. We do not want a tax base government run economy for unequal collective ownership. Even China prospered by private ownership and industry over government ownership and control of industry.

Republicans will get us out of this economic mess of jobless America with big and bigger centralized federal government and taxes breaking the back of the average American.

Posted by: klausdmk | July 1, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

The federal government should stop trying to artificially inflate housing prices. High-level officials in the Obama administration, politicians in Congress, many in the media are wealthy enough to live nearly anywhere they want. Buying a home costing over a million dollars is nothing to them.

Home prices are too high in many areas of country and need to come down another 30% or more to be more affordable for the ordinary peasants in this country.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | July 1, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

A lot of people understood that housing prices hadn't come down enough, and that as soon as the tax credit was withdrawn, they were going down again. For those that didn't understand this, the tax credit probably pulled forward enough demand to artificially prop prices up by an amount greater than the $8k limit.

I look forward to buying when the market has finally corrected.

Posted by: msully25 | July 1, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Truer words have never been posted! Your "fact" is especially applicable to the DC area.

Posted by: creamit20 | July 1, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

frank, how much cash do the companies of the S&P have in the bank? if they opened the floodgates, would it make a dent?

Posted by: BertinDC | July 1, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

We're moving faster through the process of socialist failure than I thought we would. The comments by people like Bushwhacked1 represent Phase 3 of socialist failure:

Phase 1: implement socialist policies. Result: failure.

Phase 2: attribute failure to insufficiently far reaching implementation of socialist policies. Propose "doubling down". Result: failure.

Phase 3: blame failure on those who "do not agree" with socialist policies ("obstructionists"). Demonize them. Result: failure.

Phase 4: implement laws and policies to "re-educate" recalcitrant non-believers; once non-believers are eliminated, socialist utopia promised not far behind. Result: failure.

Phase 5: non-believers strike back simply to survive.

Socialists: if everyone has to believe in it for it to work, it's religion. Free market capitalism has no such requirement.

Posted by: pyellman | July 1, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending..Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending..Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending....Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Sending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...Stop Spending...

Thanks to Rick Santelli for that fantastic comment on the irresponsible, out-of control lunatic-left d-crat socialists.

Posted by: TeaPartyPatriot | July 1, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

The problem is there is plenty of money but it is so unequally distrubted as to be a farce. The richest 1% has about 85% of all the money we have and the rest of the 99% of the populace has the remaining 15% of the money. This unbalanced scenario is the direct result of tax reduction for the rich and blatant stealing by corporations and banks. We need to fix the unbalance and return from this unhealthy distibution of wealth back to a more equal distribution of wealth. GOP will fight this but then they are the ones who instigated the unhealty unequal distribution through tax breaks for the rich and for corporation. They are the problem.

Posted by: changeisneeded | July 1, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

The President Obama bashers can bash all day long, but his policies are not the problem. I afraid you folks are going to understand sooner or later that the past glory days of American businesses has long been disguised by financial deal making, which gave impressions of continued growth. Yes, our growth has been a mirage covered by employees working harder and spending more than what we had running just to stay even. As long as no one had to pay the piper, and real estate could be accessed like ATM's everything was fine... until it stopped being fine. The tip off was in 2007 when many of these wall street institutions began showing how leveraged their so called profits were predicated. No, you Obama bashers and Republican lovers, there is no easy way out of this decline in the American living standards. This is going to be shared worldwide because you cannot beat something with nothing. The productivity and growth is in Asia and there is nothing we can do about it. It's demographics pure and simple. In summary how can Americans compete with twenty-million Chinese coming off the farms looking for work at wages far, far, far, far less than we in the West? Don't blame Obama...change your lifestyle while you have the options.

Posted by: october30 | July 1, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse


Ahrens wrote that "The private sector has failed to kick in because it doesn't trust the future."

------------

No. The private sector hasn't "kicked in" because it doesn't trust Obama and the Democrats!

Posted by: janet8 | July 1, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

The President Obama bashers can bash all day long, but his policies are not the problem. I afraid you folks are going to understand sooner or later that the past glory days of American businesses has long been disguised by financial deal making, which gave impressions of continued growth. Yes, our growth has been a mirage covered by employees working harder and spending more than what we had running just to stay even. As long as no one had to pay the piper, and real estate could be accessed like ATM's everything was fine... until it stopped being fine. The tip off was in 2007 when many of these wall street institutions began showing how leveraged their so called profits were predicated. No, you Obama bashers and Republican lovers, there is no easy way out of this decline in the American living standards. This is going to be shared worldwide because you cannot beat something with nothing. The productivity and growth is in Asia and there is nothing we can do about it. It's demographics pure and simple. In summary how can Americans compete with twenty-million Chinese coming off the farms looking for work at wages far, far, far, far less than we in the West? Don't blame Obama...change your lifestyle while you have the options.

Posted by: october30 | July 1, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

There is no socialism in America contrary to the GOP freak shows claiming there is. Read this web site and see the insidious scheme the GOP has been perpetrating for decades to take over all your money and own this country and the governance of it as well as making you a slave to there fiancial system until you die. You will never be able to retire but shall be a worker bee until you drop dead.

http://www.governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=14

Posted by: changeisneeded | July 1, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse


Ahrens wrote "The private sector has failed to kick in because it doesn't trust the future."

---------------------

No. The private sector hasn't "kicked in" because they don't trust Obama and the Democrats.

Posted by: janet8 | July 1, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Reply to scientist1 12:58:

It's an identity. A dollar of stimulus spending has to come from somewhere. That dollar comes from additional government debt.

That dollar must come from some individual or institution or government willing to purchase an additional dollar of Treasury securities. That individual or institution or government has that dollar parked somewhere--perhaps in a bank account or corporate bond or stock---all of which are forms of direct private financing. An additional dollar of stimulus necessarily takes one dollar of capital from the private sector. The stimulus makes sense only if you think the government will spend the dollar to better effect than the private sector.

Posted by: mad_tiger | July 1, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Democrats caused the OBAMA DEPRESSION with the first "stimulus" bill, which was actually a depressant, because of binge spending of borrowed money.


Posted by: Jerzy | July 1, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Today’s Democrats obtain power by redistributing property to buy votes. They are so obsessed with power that they have already burdened future generations with public debt and structural deficits that are unsustainable. Now, in allegiance with the government of Mexico, they are literally giving away both the wealth and the sovereignty of the American people to the people of Mexico.

Anyone who looks at the numbers can easily see what is happening.

Everybody who speaks up is immediately denounced by the Democrats as a racist.

Nobody wants to be called a racist.

Somebody better be willing to take the heat and call it what it is or nobody is going to be able to sustain their current standard of living except government employees and those living off of government redistribution payments – and even that is temporary.

We have already run out of other peoples’ money. We are now taxing away the investment capital that creates the private sector jobs and opportunities that keep the whole system afloat.

Clueless Comrade Barry told us that unemployment would come down if only we borrowed another $800 billion from the Chinese. Now that it has become abundantly clear that Comrade Barry’s Keynesian spending spree has accomplished nothing save for putting us deeper in debt, his solution is to grant amnesty, citizenship and the right to vote to tens of millions of new handout seekers.

What you are witnessing is nothing less than the destruction of the greatest economy in history by a narcissistic, Marxist miscreant and the Useful Idiots who follow him.

Posted by: PauvrePapillon | July 1, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Americans cannot afford to continue subsidizing Oil, Coal, and Livestock Pollution and borrowing money to support tax cuts for the most wealthy. Make the biggest Polluters pay their Fair Share and end Bush era tax cuts: especially when everyone else is Sacrificing, living on the edge, or recently unemployed.

While military men and women fight, die, and experience daily casualties in the Middle East most other Americans have forgotten the meaning of sacrifice. It makes no sense to borrow money to support tax breaks for the most wealthy of Americans.

We cannot sell Multi-Billion 100% Taxpayer funded military hardware but we can sell taxpayer and private industry funded Wind, Solar, Torrefactioned Biomass, Stationary Fuel Cell, Nuclear, Hydro, Algae Ethanol, Cellulosic Biofuels, Natural Gas, and Efficient Freight Rail locomotives to meet domestic and global needs.

End Bush era $2 Trillion in tax cuts for the most wealthy, end the $15 Billion a year in Feedstock and Cotton Subsidies to Rich Farming Companies, end Billions in fossil fuel subsidies for Multi-Billion dollar profiteering Oil companies; and tax large scale (Oil, Coal, Livestock) polluters, and imported Oil to pay for new Jobs and support the fastest Job creating industries.

Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

..."Thank you, thank you, thank you, this exactly what the President has been saying all along, as the "Minority/party of "NO" stand in the way of change, the people see the results/Republicans doing all they can to stop the will of the Majority, and it's time the Majority/"STEAMROLLED/RIGHT/OVER/REPUBLICANS!

This registered Voter/Vet USAF, says to the Democrats and to President Barack Obama, "POUR IT ON..."POUR IT ON...

Posted by: ztcb41 | July 1, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The real takeaway is that Big Business is sending Washington a blunt message: Get out of our affairs, or we'll continue to sit on our $13 trillion in cash.
Put another way, no private investment means no job creation, which means no real recovery.
It's a fundamental culture clash of capitalism vs. socialism, whose outcome will have far-reaching consequences.

Posted by: mtpeaks | July 1, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

We're moving faster through the process of socialist failure than I thought we would. Posted by: pyellman

--

It you, Bush, and right wing free market fetishists who got us into this mess in the first place by deregulating the banks and allowing them to pursue their free market destruction. You free market fetishists are the failures.

Posted by: twm1 | July 1, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I agreee that the Stimulus should not have included the Billions in Individual tax cuts, which more often than not was saved or used to buy products made overseas. That money should have been directed to Manufacturing and the creation of USA Jobs.

Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

When you build a company on OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY this is bound to happen. Anyone surprised by this is brain dead....

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Cancer will not go away if the cancer cells are encouraged to grow. The economy will not improve if stimulus lengthens the life of the parts of the economy that have no future. When people make investments they are comitting their limited time and financial resources in anticipation of a productive future. When government stimulus encourages investments with no future as it did in 2001-2003, the human cost is a disaster.

Posted by: dnjake | July 1, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

In order for a economic recovery to take hold we'll need the following:

1. Outsourcing must be outlawed. Those firms that have outsourced in the last 20 years must be fined excessively until the jobs are returned to the US.

2. Mergers and buy-outs must end. Mega firms must be broken into smaller firms.

Government handouts cannot stop the economic freefall. American jobs, good paying jobs, must be created.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

The uncertainty in the private sector community today is due to the unknown costs of the trillion dollar ObamaCare entitlement, an almost certain hike in taxes, the anti-business sentiment in Washington, the Financial Control bill which will kill the remaining small amount of business capital on the market, and the tremendous amount of money the government is borrowing and printing. The Feds folks are now 25% of our entire economy! They are slowly killing the economy spending bill by spending bill and entitlement by entitlement. No wonder the economy is in the tank. MORE spending by the Federal government is NOT the answer. Cut spending and taxes and give us some money we can do something with instead of allowing the government to pour it down the drain!

Posted by: Alangc2 | July 1, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

..."Thank you, thank you, thank you, this exactly what the President has been saying all along, as the "Minority/party of "NO" stand in the way of change, the people see the results/Republicans doing all they can to stop the will of the Majority, and it's time the Majority/"STEAMROLLED/RIGHT/OVER/REPUBLICANS!

This registered Voter/Vet USAF, says to the Democrats and to President Barack Obama, "POUR IT ON..."POUR IT ON...

Posted by: ztcb41 | July 1, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Well every village has an id10t....

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Any stimulus with rather draconian protectionist measures is doomed to fail. take a look at what happened to the last round of stimulus money. Close to 90% of it ended up offshore. It, in fact, made unemployment worse. Since Obama took office and enacted his TRAP and stimulus packages, we have outsourced close to 5,000,000 jobs! Those jobs simply aren't going to come back unless the government ends their free trade follies. Of course, the government wont, and we are going to face a calamity worse than anything any of you ever imagined. Make no mistake about it, too, as the roof caves in, it will have been on Obama's watch. He could have prevented it with some early and relatively tame protectionist measures. He and his Democratic allies did NOTHING. Now, we all will pay the price for his global fantasies.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 1, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

We're moving faster through the process of socialist failure than I thought we would. Posted by: pyellman
--
It you, Bush, and right wing free market fetishists who got us into this mess in the first place by deregulating the banks and allowing them to pursue their free market destruction. You free market fetishists are the failures.
Posted by: twm1 | July 1, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

_____________________________________
Yes and like all good LIBS you are brain dead. Guess what simplet0n…. The president is a figure head he has no real power. The US Congress is the power. The DMES have controlled Congress since the end of 2006. With that said two things are clear. 1. You haven’t got the slightest idea how your own government works and 2. You enjoy making a @zz of yourself in public. And people wonder why they cannot find a decent LIB/PRO president.

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

time for another housing tax credit!!

Posted by: WhatBubble | July 1, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I read Obama took economics 101 from Jimmy Carter. Two peas in a pod. Too bad the pods not on the bottom of the ocean.....

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

What if we do what the Repubs want to do ... initiate the great Herbert Hoover policy of cutting taxes and balancing the budget. Let's see how fast we get to 20% unemployment. These conservatives are so brain dead that they want to repeat the past. Thanks to Bush, the housing industry and Wall St bubble burst and so here we are.

Posted by: crudblue | July 1, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

the housing market needs to be propped up to avoid another dip, soooo more free money for buying houses !!!

Posted by: WhatBubble | July 1, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

We already know free markets do not work.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Nice front for Rahmbo... what a hack!

Posted by: Obama_TRAITOR_in_Chief | July 1, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

sorry, but the republicans, the party that says f you to american families when it comes to extending unemployment benefits, and "we're sorry and we still love you" to BP, says using government money to avert a global financial meltdown is "socialism." Same party who had no problem spending trillion after trillion when the chimp was in the WH on a totally unnecessary war, tax cuts for exxon mobil at the same time they were recording the largest profits in history for quarter after quarter, tax cuts for the richest people in the country, etc, etc. I didn't hear any crying about the deficit when the chimp was spending our money on the rich peoples' agenda. in fact I distinctly recall the rethuglicons villifying the dems, because they expressed concern about the DEFICIT THAT GEORGE BUSH CREATED and wanted the repiggers to have a way to pay for their agenda. So do people not remember the rethugs balking when the dems were taking the same position that the party of no is taking now? Or is it okay when we have a king in the WH, but not an elected president who happens to be a democrat? God, what a party of hypocrites. But as always, I don't blame the repigger leaders. They know they can get away with anything, because all it takes to control the feeble minds that support them is name calling and bumper sticker cliches. I blame the repiglets who believe absurd lies, and whose minds are embarrassingly easy to control. You can read comments in this newspaper today from Newt Gingrich saying the rethugs need an agenda and not just no to everything Obama to win in November, but he's wrong. Republicans have no answers, because they don't need any. Their agenda is totally un-American and does not benefit 90% of the people who vote for them. One of the most amazing phenomenon I've ever witnessed. How can a party possibly say f american families, we love you BP, and win? it's simple, those who vote for them for the most part have not one clue about what they're voting for. biggest horde of mindless sheep in history. astounding.

Posted by: red2million | July 1, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Nice front for Rahmbo... what a hack!

Posted by: Obama_TRAITOR_in_Chief | July 1, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Let's not be stupid about why the private sector isn't kicking in. The private sector isn't kicking in because there's no demand walking in the front door. All this noise about government and taxes is completely meaningless if businesses don't have enough demannd to make money on.

Stimulus is necessary, but insufficient. Stimulus combined with trade protection will keep the Keynesian multiplier effect from being transferred to our offshore trading partners, as much of the last stimulus was transferred.

Posted by: lonquest | July 1, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

All you dumbas$ liberals who keep blaming Bush need to get your heads out of rectal defilade.
Bandover Barney, Countrywide Dodd and their leftist friends, along with blacks in Congress, and those who looted Fannie and Freddie are largely responsible for the housing collapse.
If you don't understand that, your IQ is probably about the size of your hat.
Seeing some of your comments, it's probably smaller than that.

Posted by: LarryG62 | July 1, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Just call up the Federal Reserve and tell them to steal the rest of depositors' interest money to give to the banks and the bums that run them.

Posted by: wesatch | July 1, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

How can a President who never held a private sector job, never had to meet a real payroll, never had to worry about making a profit, never lived like most of us Americans, and never met a tax that he didn't love, do ANYTHING to help this economy? HE CAN'T! LET'S TAKE THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS 2012. LET'S REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!

Posted by: barrysal | July 1, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

How can a President who never held a private sector job, never had to meet a real payroll, never had to worry about making a profit, never lived like most of us Americans, and never met a tax that he didn't love, do ANYTHING to help this economy? HE CAN'T! LET'S TAKE THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS 2012. LET'S REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!

Posted by: barrysal | July 1, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

We already know free markets do not work.
Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse
This moron may be the dumbe$t person to ever live in the USA. A hundred plus years of free markets built the US you id10t. Only some sort of complete drug addict would have posted something this ignorant. This is the quality of the DEM party today. Too bad we couldn’t just shoot id1ot’s like this in the head. Think of the savings!!!!!!!

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

The reality is that home prices are still higher then their pre-boom housing prices. Sure, millions bought at boom prices and those prices won't be back for a generation. But the U.S. economy is still riding on 30-year long period of growth. Housing and the stock market both could still sustain major correctios.

The problem is made worse by the fact that the government is stoking the market with tax credits and falsly low interest rates.

Furthermore, tax increase, from the end of the Bush tax cuts, and the increasing health care and energy taxes will all push housing prices down significantly from their current levels.

Posted by: hokie92 | July 1, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

There’s a Latin term “Ad hominem” to describe the logic fallacy of attacking the person to distract from the issue. Don’t waste your time calling people names to belittle and demean their them for Dubious Gain.

Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Obama is a lousy president. End of story.

Posted by: nychap44 | July 1, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

There’s a Latin term “Ad hominem” to describe the logic fallacy of attacking the person to distract from the issue. Don’t waste your time calling people names to belittle and demean them for Dubious Gain.

Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Homesellers should lower their prices by at least $8,000, the same amount of the tax credit.

There's no need for a tax credit if you have REALISTIC pricing. It's called the law of supply and demand.

If you want a sale, lower your price.

Posted by: coakl | July 1, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

sorry, but the republicans, the party that says f you to american families when it comes to extending unemployment benefits,


More words of wisdom from the dumbest society has to offer. Why would you think you have an opinion when you don't even understand the subject??? Obama has over 320 Billion from repaid TARP funds. Ask him to help out. He refuses to and instead wishes to put it on his Chinese made gold card. Well I'm glad that both the REPS and the DEMS are blocking the bill. Maybe you should just run along back to Facebook it's more suited for you.....

Posted by: askgees | July 1, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

The homebuying credit should have been phased out incrementally - a percent or so a year -- rather than dropped overnight. Such a weaning protocol seemed like a no-brainer to me.

Posted by: BaltimoreCotls59 | July 1, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

i don't need a stimulus check. i want my mortgage rate converted to the current market rate without paying another $15K in fees and paperwork! consumers need relief. bank are borrowing at virtually zero interest, let me refiance my existing debt on better terms.

Posted by: whomp1 | July 1, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

It means Obama and this administration are a complete flop. Come Nov. things will be set straight.....

Posted by: askgees
_____________________________

You know Obama is not facing election this cycle don't you?

Posted by: bob29 | July 1, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

This is the American mantra; simply throw more money at any problem, and it is "solved".

I just hope the Obama Administration does NOT spend foolishly on things that will make a difference...like extending unemployment benefits to the long-term unemployed, so they may try to feed and shelter their families.

What a waste of money THAT would be, eh, Mr. Obama?

TEE-TIME!

Posted by: wcmillionairre | July 1, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Do you know how dumb Pelosi is? Possibly dumber than a bag of hammers and rocks. Here is what the world's greatest economist, Pelosi, said: Unemployment benefits are creating jobs faster than practically any other program, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday. Can you believe this and she is third in line for the Presidency-we got some real doozies running this country.

Posted by: Mindboggle | July 1, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Start listening to Dr. Paul Krugman....he's been saying this all along...the financial institutions (we bailed out) are sitting on close to two trillion dollars unwilling to lend....tax the living hell out of them, take the proceeds, and disribute it to work programs to rebuild America....do it now.

Posted by: bigisle | July 1, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

The BIG big takeaway:

"Civil War 2 by 2013"

Posted by: pmendez | July 1, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

bigisle - Those banks ARE NOT sitting on that money. They have lent it to businesses in India and China and Brazil, where they expect a good rate of return. Given the inflationary uptick hitting those three countries (14.5% in India) we can expect their 8% plus growth to come an abrupt halt in the next few weeks. Commodity prices bear this out. They are flat or contracting. Most of the world is expecting an abrupt and sustained economic contraction in the immediate future. Here it will come in the form of a depression.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 1, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

When Congress and the Administration, governors and state legislators and mayors and town councils have spent to the edge of oblivion, advocating more spending is lunacy.

The stimulus failed. It did not 'jump start' the economy. As the little of it that actually made it into the economy worked its way through, the economy retrenched. The economy will continue this way until government stops trying to stimulate, just as it did during the Great Depression.

Leave the money in the economy. Allow businesses, entrepreneurs and labor to be productive. Absent the 'stimulus', the economy would have gone through a short, sharp contraction. Then it would have started growing. And it would have begun growing already.

With the stimulus, unemployment will stay stuck near 10%, tax revenue will lag, capital will fallow and underinvestment will continue.

If half a bottle of Jack Daniels makes you feel better, even it that feeling is false, the rest of the bottle will not likely make you feel twice as good. Those of you who advocate more stimulus need to learn this lesson before you derail this economy and nation into much more serious straits.

Robert Fuller
Hopewell, NJ

Posted by: fuller1 | July 1, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I stand corrected. If the socialists in this thread are representative, we are still firmly in Phase 2, "double down". That is, the argument that failure is due to the fact that the enactment of socialist policies has not gone far enough. However, I'll note that most of them are also warming up Phase 3's the "it's the non-believers among us who are holding back the success of socialism" argument.

Frankly, I'm with the Phase 2'ers: we haven't seen enough of socialism yet to understand the sheer damage and misery it can bring. It may be that an immediate, personal lesson is the only way many Americans are going to learn that basically, the tooth fairy does not exist. The intelligent way to learn is vicariously, for example, by looking at the history of socialism, but it does seem that for many among us, only a personal lesson will do. So be it.

Posted by: pyellman | July 1, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Mega-Banks are not lending to USA Industries, they are hoarding money, sending it overseas and using it to place bets on Derivatives, Swaps, CDO’s Etc. We need to create a National Bank to lend to emerging industries that are proven to create USA Jobs while addressing our most pressing needs; Energy Independence and Economic Security.

The GOP's question is always; how can I pass Oil, Coal, and Gas Pollution and Poisons onto the Public without making the Polluters pay for it??? How can I abuse the Taxpayer funded Privilege of my office to advance Oil, Gas and Coal interests and get more campaign Money???

How can I allow Wall Street Banks to Win and the Public Taxpayer to Lose and get more campaign money for doing so??? It’s always “Heads I win, Tails you Lose” with Wall Street. How can I ensure Health Insurance companies continue to Gouge the Consumer with administrative overhead and duplicate procedures to I can get more campaign contributions???

How…How…How….Eureka…I’ll just block and say NO to any meaningful reform and Weaken anything that passes so I can attack it later…-or- call it an Evil Energy Tax so Pollution can continue unabated to be paid for by the Public while I take the Profits. An Evil Tax is much worse, much for Fearful than a little Poison or CO2 that you cannot see....Dude…High Five…Fist Pump…Flying Chest Bump!!!

Posted by: liveride | July 1, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

We were and still are in an economic bubble. That bubble has to deflate or burst.

We won't get back to 2007 levels by overspending (ie stimulus). Unsustainable spending is what created the bubble in the first place.

Posted by: BradG | July 1, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

This presents the alternatives as if it were only 2 options. If only life were really that simple. The fact is that there need to be good investment alternatives for the American economy. Economies get out of trouble by not getting into trouble. The monetary policy needs to be moderated so that there is low inflationary/deflationary pressure while at the same time expanding economic output.

The government in the U.S. needs to get out of the way so businesses and entrepreneurs can work freely to setup and invest in projects that will expand economic output.

Expansions in economic output involve investors and businesses seeing opportunities and then going after them and having them return positively. The best kind of investments the U.S. can make are the ones where people/businesses are exchanging their lowest-cost, high-value resources for others lowest-cost, high-value resources. These provide the greatest overall returns both individually and to the economy as a whole. The better that the economy can be organized to perform this essential function the better off everyone will be.

Posted by: theartistpoet | July 1, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

As I have been saying for years: NO Universal nationalized (socialized) health care and NO Job creation, it is that simple.

US economy will continue to go down and down compared to European economies as evident by how much more valuable Euro is compared to US Dollar, or how much more valuable avg houses prices are in Europe compared to US, or that while most of US Auto makers went bankrupt NOT ONE European Auto maker went bankrupt, etc. etc. until USA has Universal nationalized health care as all Europeans have Canadians have, Japanese have, Chinese have, etc..

After all WHY would you want to hire someone in USA and pay $1000s of Dollars per month for their health care costs, which is going up all the time, WHEN you can hire the same person in Europe or Canada or China and you pay almost ZERO for their health care costs because all Europeans countries, Canada, Japan, China, etc. have Universal nationalized health care.

All of which points prove what utter complete lunatics Republicans are, which means how they are totally owned by Big pharma & Big insurance, to be against Universal nationalized (socialized) health care, because the way Universal nationalized health care is operated is the same exact way that we operate the Military, Police, Fire Dept, Courts of Law, etc. etc.

More here:
http://RealNewsPost.com?n=think.34034

Posted by: Thinkdeeper | July 1, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

If it was the stimulus that kept the economy from tanking, then Obama made the right call. I don't understand why so many people blame him for having done the right thing, even as he was mocked and blocked at every point.

Krugman was also right about the stimulus: right at the outset, he said the Obama stimulus was too small. It was the right thing to do, but not big enough.

Now we see they were both right. Maybe it's time to support Obama, you think?

We need leaders now with guts. Obama can't do it by himself. Remember that in November.

Posted by: DavidH3 | July 1, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Subsdies and Tax hollidays.
Declare a Tax holldiay on all imported food and clothing.
Further subsidize American farmers to lower the cost of American grown food. Basically, lower the Cost of living in the US. Renew the tax incentive for home buying but only for new homes, not existing ones. Instead offer tax incentives for home improvements to existing home owners especially energy saving improvements including buying energy efficient appliances. Double the tax on gasoline and offer incentives for fuel efficient vehicles. Lower the tax over time. The initial tax creates an incentive to buy a fuel efficient vehicle, while lowering the tax over time allows the vehicle owner to see real dollar savings in fuel costs, frees up cash for spending and reduces the burden on the economy. Those that can't afford a new car may opt for alternative transportation to save money.

Don't stop forclosures. But cap homeowner liability to 3%-6% of outstanding capital on a mortgage .

Lowering cost of living, frees up cash. Incentrives to buy "new" houses, cars and durable goods creates jobs. Lowering energy and fuel use further reduces cost of living.

The erosion of house values is good for consumers. People who buy forclosed properties will spend money to fix them up and furnish them. People who are forclosed on will move into cheaper housing freeing up income and lowering their cost of living. Having a liability cap de-incentivises walking away from a mortgage you can afford, but makes it easier to walk away from one you can't. The resulting glut of housing will result in lower housing costs and smaller, less risky loans. At some point banks will stop forclosing because they can't afford the losses. They may start offering homeowners adjusted mortgages without government assistance. Again those that are able to buy will spend money and stimulate the economy.

Posted by: ArtDodger69 | July 1, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

The "vaunted Keynesian multiplier" is stuck in a liquidity trap (as are we all).

Posted by: citizenw | July 1, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

We did the cash infusion stimulus in 2009. Clearly, the 500,000 PER MONTH jobs losses of Bush / 2008 were put to a stop.

Now it is time to realize the full damage of those years. 15 million remain unemployed. Trying to cut off their stipends in service to an already exploded deficit, is not the right move for emergency times. The right step here is to keep them supported, with FDR-style public works jobs.

Community policing to reduce crime. Elder home care, child care - both are underserved and have positive social and economic impact. Badly needed infrastructure improvements. Many unemployed would be happy to give half a day to these roles as they wait for reintegration into the private sector.

Which is obviously going to take years. The solution isn't hard. Morons in Washington and a largely Media Inc. beholdened to the far right, are what is in the way.

Isn't it odd how the FDR solution isn't even on the table? Think Hoover Dam was a bad idea?

Balkingpoints / www

Posted by: RField7 | July 1, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

re: ArtDodger69

Wow. These are the products of our educational establishment: people who propose "lowering the cost of American food" by paying farmers to grow it. Wow again.

I'm gonna guess the aerospace engineers in his graduating class propose getting to the moon by using 2 pieces of extension ladder and to just keep putting the one on top of the other and climb on up -- like in cartoons.

Just Wow. Again. Wow.

Posted by: pyellman | July 1, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

What damn STIMULUS? - WE have NEVER ,- NEVER had a so-called STIMULUS in the First place!! - Imagine,- this and past 'Turn-Coat' CONGRESS'S continue to SUPPORT & $BAIL the Criminal Globalist "DIRIVATIVE-PUSHER" SCUM!! - And to Totally Ignore the Most Suffering & Hurting of U.S. CITIZENS,-- the "DISABLED & ELDERLY"- Living in "POVERTY"!! -- TRAITORS ALL!! -- CONGRESS Needs Removed & Replaced for such Sick inaction and mis-treated of Our Most Suffering of Citizens!!!

Posted by: jward52 | July 1, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

If I'm not mistaken there are still several hundred billion dollars still unspent from the first stimulus bill.

The problem is we have a community organizer floundering as our president. He and his admininstration have no economic policy and really don't care.

The problem with the last stimulus is that the money went to the wrong places. Banks, bailouts etc. Econ 101 tells us to stimulate the economy money has to go to the people. They will create demand which in turn will create expansion and new jobs.

We need an economic stimulus and we need a new administration to administer it.

Posted by: thehamptons1 | July 1, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Your last sentence dislpays less understanding than I expect from you.

You say
"Without private sector money in this economy, we can do one of two things: deflate and contract, and we know where that leads -- deep recession and possibly depression; or approve billions in new stimulus, which will only explode our already massive public debt and budget deficits, which was dragging states down one after the other."

But states' deficits are caused by the weak economy, rather than the other way around.
Stimulus spending helps states retain employees without increasing their individual deficits. thereby propping up states' economies AND balance sheets.

Now, perhaps by 'states' you mean countries.
let's remember that the countries you are thinking of are probably part of the Euro zone, and therefore have no ability to manage monetary policy on their own.

Let's remember a few things: Without a recovery we will NEVER balance the budget. Long term budget deficits won't even be dented by cuts in discressionary spending. (our Government is basically a big insurance company with an army -Soc Sec, Medicare, Medicaid, Veteran's Administration and the Military.) We have to get the costs of healthcare down if we want to have long term fiscal strength. and how abou this...
If the chineese are buying our bonds, then we are suppressing private (govt) investment in China, when we spend stimulus money, and transferring that spending here, where it will give investors a reason to invest in capacity here(read employ people.)

You make it look like both options are bad.
We need to stimulate spending NOW. The hard part is getting the politicians to back off of those spending levels when the economy picks up again.
But hey, Not counting the current major recession (where things get turned on their heads) Democratic adminstrations in the past 50 years have a history of decreasing deficits, while Republican administrations have tended to increase deficits. So at least we can be positive about our prospects should the economy turn around in the next two years.

Cheers!

Posted by: bantersafe | July 1, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Continuing to use stimulus is futile. There are sever structural problems with the economy. Until they are addressed the US will never again have a robust economy.

We can start by:

1. Undoing all the mergers and buyouts.

2. Outlawing outsourcing.

3. Place excessive fines on companies that have outsourced unless the jobs are returned to the US.

4. Breaking up large firms like WalMart and the big banks.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

If I had the presidents ear, and his attention, I’d have you all working both night and day. Not one person would be out of a job or home. One project alone is needed in every state. Millions of workers to do thousands of jobs. Business and manufacturing providing every man, women and teen a minimum of forty hours, three shifts a day.
Project One entails the burying of existing and new power, communication, utility, drainage and safety rooms across America. Eliminating outages, saving lives and utilization nature to our advantage. Sources of power may change, delivery will remain basically the same. Linked together throughout the states a series of tubes and tunnels able to direct flows of water from flood lands to drought, or needed utilities. Secure power, utility, and communication will lessen all costs. Safety rooms spread out underground or above will save lives in time of need.
The skills, materials required are all American made. All workers and businesses gain as does our whole country. All the waste products, recycle able materials we could utilize would eliminate a portion of Project Two. With everyone working, business thriving, manufacturing humming, our lives now safer then ever before. Life for every American will be enjoyable, costs would lessen, life expectancies lengthen, and we will be able to thank ourselves for a job well done. If your reading this and have his ear please pass the word along. You can have the credit for the whole idea if that’s what it will take to help my fellow Americans experience the lives envisioned by our founders. They saw a future our children still may see if we act today, united as one nation under God. Our beliefs may differ on religion or politics, not on life. A working, prosperous nation is a happier one for all of its citizen‘s.. A safer nation is for everyone. As a reward for getting him going on Project One, you can also claim Project two. Lets talk soon.

Posted by: SonnyRice | July 1, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing to read the posts on here. Obviously most of you have never either studied World History or had Macro Economics. First-this didn't happen overnight or even within the last two years. This has been building for atleast 20 years. Go back to NAFTA and the outsourcing of labor to developing countries for pennies on the dollar. Now granted this goes with the whole "Free Market Capitalism Idea" however here is the unintended consequences (the pathway to hell is laced with great ideas). Second, look at when Free Market Capitalism brought down Glass Stegal and allowed Mega Banks and other financial entities to merge. How did that work out-Oh, too big to fail anyone? Now we are trying to undo what was done. When faced with the choice of economic collapse or robbing Peter to pay Paul we chose number two. It's funny listening to people say "We should have let the market decide who won and lost". Really? So if it would have all hit the fan and we would have been in a Deep Depression part two would you have felt the same way? Study economic history and you'll see that we are repeating it and what it took was a very oh my "Socialist" idea by FDR to pull us back (that along with a war-we have plenty of those).

It's easy to blame the person in office for all of the problems we face (it's the what have you done for me lately issue) but just like it took years to get us in the muck it's going to take YEARS to get us out. Probably won't be in Obama's term and he'll be judged as a failure for crap he didn't create and the President who comes behind him when we are on the upswing will look like a knight on a shiny white horse (can you say Jimmy Carter and Ronald Regan?)

Learn your history, read some books and don't just listen to the talking points!!!

Posted by: kinji3pr | July 1, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Q - What's causing the federal budget and state budget deficits'?

A - Lack of good paying jobs. Until the jobs picture turns around in a giant way the US is on a downward hill...and picking up speed. Once the stimulus runs out and unemployment benefits end we should spiral into a deep recession/depression by the end of this year.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Start listening to Dr. Paul Krugman....he's been saying this all along...the financial institutions (we bailed out) are sitting on close to two trillion dollars unwilling to lend....tax the living hell out of them, take the proceeds, and disribute it to work programs to rebuild America....do it now.

Posted by: bigisle | July 1, 2010 4:53 PM
=====================================
Cuba's Castro tried that, and it didn't work out so well.

Posted by: mtpeaks | July 1, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse


"Start listening to Dr. Paul Krugman....he's been saying this all along..."

Every now and then, even a pissant like Krugman says something "right", usually by accident.

Heck, even Hitler said things no reasonable person could disagree with!

Posted by: wcmillionairre | July 1, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama looks inept and, at times, overwhelmed — at the mercy of events rather than in control of them. He doesn’t seem up to the challenge. He looks, in fact, very much like a community organizer who was thrust into the job of the presidency.

Posted by: knight1977 | July 1, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

I should have said that the farm subsidies and tax holidays, etc I proposed are all temporary and reduced over time. The subsidies are to get over the objections that are likely to arise from farmers over the tax holidays for foreign produce.

The biggest problem the US has is that real wages have shrunk over time.

Temporarily lowering the cost of living through subsidies and tax holldays etc. helps to bring COL in line with wages in the short term and frees up cash.

Letting housing costs fall and improving efficiency improves COL in the long term.

Sadly, I believe that eliminating farm subsidies and continued export of manufacturing jobs to lower COL countries is inevitable and neccessary for the continued health of the US economy.

This is counter intuitive, but will result in lower cost of living for most people. The loss of manufacturing and probably farm jobs may be a bitter pill to swallow however, the resulting lower cost of living is important since I don't believe real wages will rise in the long term.

Until Standards of Living, Costs of living and Wages rise world wide, manufacturing companies will always take advantage of wage arbritrage and the US will always be at a disadvantage in this sector. Protectionist tarrifs only serve to increase our own COL and make us less competetive in the long term.

The best way to hold on to high wages and standards of living in this country is to invest in intellectual capital and compete with our minds. We can't be exported. Our creativity and innovation can't be exported.

Investing in educating ourselves and our children. Facilitating entrepenurship, invention and R&D. These are things that will keep us out of a wage race to the bottom.

Let other people make the widgets. It's the people that can invent better widgets or better and/or cheaper ways to make, sell, move, etc. widgets that will be highly paid and therfore have the highest standard of living.

Posted by: ArtDodger69 | July 1, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Moody's didn't downgrade on Wall Street- which cost us

And now Moody's decides- ah HA

We WON'T downgrade the REAL trash CDO's on Wall Street ?

BUT we WILL downgrade the nation states.

Moody's has the power to crash the global economy.

Systemic Risk anyone ?

THAT Moody's triple A ratings on Wall Street obfuscated products COST investors who opened their brown paper bags to find dog crap ?

And now Moody's figures out - ah HA - let's downgrade Greece, let's downgrade Spain.

Guess who's next on the chopping block.

When Moody's downgrades US Treasury ?

Oh, people will figure it out and say- hey - wait a second - you just crashed the US economy for GOOD.

US will default because once we lose triple A no one will lend to us.

Hans Timmer of World Bank speculates in 2010, THIS YEAR - Moody's will downgrade US Treasuries -

Think about it-

Why are we not auditing Moody's - going through - checking EVERYTHING that comes out the their mouth before IRREVERSIBLE damage is done.

Look at Spain today.

Hey- I DID happen to warn of that 24 hours prior - but where would I have learned that ?

Figure it out!

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

The WaPo headlined:

"Bad days on Wall Street, dismal reports suggest recovery needs government cash."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually, the immense government deficit suggests that the government needs a recovery so that it can pay cash.


Posted by: thardman | July 1, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Actually its a good day on Wall Street. I am buying again, although in moderation.

Posted by: hipshot | July 1, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

I liked Greenspan this AM - he points out that Wall Street can't make a dime - it doesn't create money -yet ? people think it can.

I think Greenspan's biggest message this AM was that investment banks didn't protect their assets.

Now, I ask - why didn't they care ?

If you ask me ? I think post Glass-Steagall ? Now that investment banks can merge with insurance- take citi and Traveller ? oh yeah, through in commercial banks, I think investment banks said - hey - FDIC will cover any commercial bank losses if we screw up our gambling - so, let's go use the deposit account money to gamble with on derivatives.

THEN they said - hey - let's use the coffers in the insurance companies - why ? because they CAN - because Glass-Steagall PROTECTED AGAINST this - not anymorezzszszszs.

Greenspan said assets were not protected, I'd chime in - nor valued - OR the investment banks had SO much to bet with ? NEW deposit account money - NEW money from insurance companies to back it ? Look at AIG's private gambling parlor on derivatives eh? PROOF ENOUGH FOR ME ?

Nothing was left to cover the losses.

Imagine a casino that says- SURE you can use a credit card.

FINE - but IF that credit card is ISSUED BY the casino ? upon entry ?

YOU BETTER HAVE TRIPLE A if you're going to get one to gamble with.

And enter Moody's -

To make SURE THERE WAS TRIPLE A when it was more like triple C.

If I were at DOJ - I'd be after Moody's- I'd have everything audited - likely a bit too late - Enron showed us how it's done with the shredder machines.

Then again Enron was only the #2 user of the Bush campaign jet in 2000.

My god - imagine Enron ethics on Wall Street- oh wait - we don't HAVE TO IMAGINE - it's REAL.

Greenspan pointed out all the markets move together now - which is strange, he also said the stock market now follows the economy, rather than leads it - so I'm not sure why people keep trying to use the stock market as if it's any kind of good news for a manic depressive economy that is taking HUGE SWOONS and swings these days- 500 down one day - etc...

Freakin' UNSTABLE BIPOLAR ECONOMY.

I'm with Hans Timmer - US had ONE chance- to recover- FIRM stance on green energy- which would have given the US a chance to compete with emerging industrial nations.

When Moody's downgrades US ?

There won't BE any health care

there won't BE ANY CHANCE FOR IT

We will be in a SUPER MACRO DEPRESSION that WILL - likely as Bush intended- END this nation.

Then, of course, Bank of America can step in as a more powerful entity than the US.

Go ask General Tommy Franks - why would BofAML need a General ? Or did Tommy have some special banking background ?

I see Tommy left- I guess it got to HOT for him - someone might figure it out !

John Thain is right

After the Merrill merger? BofAML WILL BE the MOST POWERFUL FINANCIAL INSTITUTION on the planet -

Big energy NEEDS BofAML for mergers down the road.

Stock market doesn't MAKE money- it TAKES MONEY.


Tim Milt

Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

The real takeaway is that Big Business is sending Washington a blunt message: Get out of our affairs, or we'll continue to sit on our $13 trillion in cash.
Put another way, no private investment means no job creation, which means no real recovery.
It's a fundamental culture clash of capitalism vs. socialism, whose outcome will have far-reaching consequences.

Posted by: mtpeaks | July 1, 2010 2:54 PM

===================================

Did you really suggest the gov't "getting out of [corporate] affairs" and then suggest private investment from the very entity you want out of corporate affairs? Haha. Kinda reminds me of "Keep your government hands off my Medicare"

Posted by: damascuspride04 | July 1, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

What's it all mean?

It means that our country is being run by a political hack -- a Campaigner and Chief and his Capitol Hill Political Class Windbag Groupies: Reid and Pelosi. He is an inexperienced, ill-equipped narcissist. Without a doubt, he totally out of touch with America and economic reality.

Posted by: JAH3 | July 1, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse


Let's hear everything you know about it.

Minus the parroted talking points.

Minus whatever you heard on Fox today.

Minus the assumptions of one more blathering right-wing ignoramus without any authentic understanding.

That leaves zero.

Thanks for contributing.

Posted by: Attucks | July 1, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

I will share on insight that just occurred to me.

Here is Moody's Triple A'ing Goldman's CDO's comprising of 90% 'word of mouth only - no credit check, no income check mortgages'... All day and all night.

Yet ? Moody's downgrades Spain today- they WANTED to downgrade ALL of Spain -

So, here was Moody's giving out phony triple A rating - which REALLY hurt many nations of the world - spurring a potential global DEPRESSION

THEN Moody's then turns around and causes the most damage to nation states- by downgrading them.

Hmm - come to think of it ? Wait a second here- Greece was IN TROUBLE BECAUSE in part it bought Goldman's triple A'd CDO's only to find out they got jack. THEN ? Moody's comes along and downgrades Greece after Greece was SNOWED the FIRST TIME BY Moody's triple A rubber stamping ?

I see something very very very sinister going on at Moody's here

Here - this just occurred to me.

Moody's opens its mouth - the Street FOLLOWS it - and reacts.

BUT - NOTHING AFFECTS Moody's.

I'd sure like to see the US DOJ affect Moody's with a SERIOUS DEEP AUDIT- uh, try TODAY? or 9 am Friday EST ?

if FDIC can show up on a Friday at 7 AM - US DOJ ? I expect you can manage 9 am.

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

The scary part I see here?

Is that Moody's - WHEN, not IF - it downgrades US Treasuries ?

That will DISABLE any potential FOR stimulus - there will be nothing to loan -

How is it Moody's has THIS much power ?

To TOPPLE markets in MINUTES of their announcements -

CLEARLY Moody's IS NOT RELIABLE - look at the WaMu Goldman CDO's

THAT ALONE DOJ ATTORNEY'S you BONEHEADS - should be enough to GO IN AND START.

PLEASE Mr.President - let us GUT this CORRUPT DOJ - and REPLACE IT WITH PEOPLE WHO REALLY CARE ABOUT JUSTICE.

US economic future rests on the time between now and when Moody's downgrades US.

AFTER THAT ?

You can kiss your ENTIRE 401k GOODBYE.

Imagine Wall Street upon hearing Moody's downgrades US Treasuries -

It'll be over in hours.

Well- they'll shut the markets down - but it won't help.

HOURS - not years - not days - HOURS.

I'd take 1 billion of that stimulus money - set up a side investigation unit at DOJ - and IMMEDIATELY find out what the HELL is going on at Moody's - for they were TRIPLE A'ing GARBAGE.

And now ? They are downgrading -

Moody's triple A'd garbage and is about to downgrade the US Dollar in a manner of speaking.

Hmm- dollar ALREADY LOST 24 cents in 8 years - that's INSANE.

ADD in inflation coming ? which I think is without question - even Greenspan this morning in his hour long interview pointed out inflation IS coming, rather than deflation.

24 cents OFF the dollar PLUS inflation ?

What's left ?

Oh - that's right the GOP wanted to lower minimum wage so there would be more work ?

Wow - who the HELL ARE THESE ALIENS !

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

What to do? Easy and fireproof. Collect the opinions expressed in these commentaries, add those of the New York Times and Washington Post and the Huffington Post, stir them (don't shake them), determine their final direction, and voila, you have the answer............do exactly the opposite.

Posted by: JohnGalt9 | July 1, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

I'll put it THIS way people -

If Moody's had not triple A'd Goldman's CDO's ?

Greece - Iceland - remember Iceland ? Wouldn't have been exposed to them.

In a way ? I think we can peg a CRITICAL CAUSAL factor as to the downturn on the global economy to Moody's STRANGE MOTIVATION to TRIPLE A garbage.

MY question is - as it always seems to turn out to be - was it incompetence ? or intentional.

Either way- Moody's has caused a LOT of damage using it's TRIPLE A RESPECT people give it - when it MISUSED that and valued that which was valueless - for starters the 90% of mortgages out of WaMu that would have been given to homeless people with no jobs- all you needed was a social security number.

Moody's REALLY needs to be capped - but it seems no one can cap that well.

Must be too much pressure.

Or too DEEP and DARK for any person to get to !

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

I already forgot what I wrote

(I learned from the Ollie North hearings on memory)

said it's being held for review

I'm outta here.

Happy undivided humanity day people -

Remember- nationalism divides us !

HELLO NUCLEAR WEAPONS - it's WORTH IT - isn't it ? isn't it ?

well -until Moody's downgrades the US and then it's all over.

I see it.

Hans Timmer sees it

do you see it ?


Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

ok ok

ONE LAST thought

Maybe this year I'll get a flag handed out at the fireworks that - NO KIDDING - got one that had Made in China on it.

I kid you not.

Look for it - it's kind of funny if you think about it - but maybe it's not so funny if you think about it.

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 1, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Obama looks inept and, at times, overwhelmed — at the mercy of events rather than in control of them. He doesn’t seem up to the challenge. He looks, in fact, very much like a community organizer who was thrust into the job of the presidency.

Posted by: knight1977 | July 1, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

I find it hard to believe that people would let an $8K tax credit determine whether they are going to buy a house or not. Of course they came in early to take advantage of the credit, but those who want to buy homes now will not be deterred by just an $8K tax credit. The desire to own a home is pretty strong.

Lets wait two months. Its July and people want to be in a home by Sept so the kids can start school. $8K is not going to stop most of those people. I think all we are seeing is the same thing we saw after cash-for-clunkers, the expected decline right after an incentive has stopped, but people are still buying cars. Home sales will rise in August. No question.

In other words, don't panic and buy some cheap stock. Think like Mr. Potter and George Bailey in "Its a Wonderful Life". They didn't sell, they were buying in times like these.

Posted by: Fate1 | July 1, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Since there were 13,000 new filers for unemployment benefits last week, Obama continues to owe an explanation for why his first "urgent" stimulus has not worked. Remember those promises that the stimulus would cap unemployment at 8% and "save or create" 3 to 4 million jobs? Since he signed the stimulus, over 2.6 million jobs have been lost in the private sector, BUT 400,000 government jobs have been added. No surprise about the latter.

In Wisconsin yesterday, Obama excused his dismal economic record again, saying that unemployment could be worse.

He should look in the mirror. His performance couldn't be any worse.

Posted by: judithod | July 1, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Really...another "bailout"....Really?

Posted by: thegriffer | July 1, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

ColdSun,
I have to wonder why you worry about the economic engine that is the USA because when the USA has an economic sneeze, the rest of the world gets the swine flu. It should be obvious that the USA rules the worlds economy. Yea China is getting bigger, but its still way small compared to the USA. You have to add up all of Europe to get close to the USA in economic power. So, I really have to laugh when your posts point to a complete economic collapse in the US while the rest of the world grows stronger economically. If the US declines, who will China sell its toys to?

Get a grip ColdSun. We're going through an economic decline. Its happened before and it will happen again. It takes time, sometimes decades, to come out of it. We're what, 2 years into it? And considering its only been 2 years, the decline has been stemmed pretty well. There will be bumps ahead, but he sure that if the USA declines, the rest of world will fare far worse.

Posted by: Fate1 | July 1, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Brace yourself folks. We're headed for another bubble - gold. Look what happened to gold prices during the 81-82 recession, you'll see.

Posted by: Frazil | July 1, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

If we discontinue the gambling done by the mega banks the US economy will be smaller than China's.

The US economy is one big roulette wheel.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

An economic recovery dependent upon government spending is not a recovery. Jobs are disappearing and not returning, as a result people are holding on to their cash and will do so until jobs, good jobs, return. This may be never so the cycle will continue.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

The problem: Mergers, Buyouts, Outsourcing, Mega Companies.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

"Bad days on Wall Street, dismal reports suggest recovery needs government cash."

Oh yeah we can sure see how the first trillion of "government" cash worked out.

BTW the Government doesn't have any cash. And what cash they may of had before intentionally stealing and giving it away to thugs, unions and neo-commie neer do well A - holes wasn't the "governments cash either. It was the peoples cash.

Posted by: Straightline | July 1, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Potholes from Afghanistan $7.99 each

Bomb crater from Afghanistan $2,999.99

Small arms shell casings (used) $14.99 for 3 doz.

Shipping & handling extra.

Get yours today.

10% discount to militia members. Get the real look and feel of war.

Posted by: Maddogg | July 1, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Fate1: let me assure you as a matter of objective fact, that people based their decision to buy, or to not buy, based on the availability of the tax credit. I know some of them, and listened as they planned in exactly that fashion.

Posted by: pyellman | July 1, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

When do the lies stop? Do they ever stop? Is there anybody left here on earth that has a love for truth? It appears to me that insanity is in order; forming false perceptions that disguise truth is in vogue.

The original "stimulus" money that was allocated was a sham; a complete lie. If one is so stupid and ignorant to believe the "jobs saved" bit than, perhaps, there is no hope...at least with the idiot in the White House. This guy goes beyond any mount of corruption that one could possibly imagine...so much so that I feel sorry for his soul.

Posted by: nosam32 | July 1, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Duh.

This "ohhh the big bad defict" bs is republicons trying desperately to crash the economy again ahead of midterms. If the recovery continues people will know unequivocally that republicons are always wrong on the economy and Democrats always have to fix their messes.

Blocking more stimulus spending and blocking unemployment benefits is exactly part of that dastardly and vile tactic.

Posted by: John1263 | July 1, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

you idiots who take away from this that government spending is bad??? How amazingly dumb are you? If it were not for these programs we would have what - 25%, 35% unemployment? If the private sector is not able to really get started completely rolling again WITH government help, just what makes you think it would be doing better without it? What exactly is "taking away" anything from the private sector when government spending is dumping capital directly into the private sector? Are you people that dense? Did Econ 101 baffle you that much? Oh that's right, you are conservatives. they don't do econ before 8th grade graduation.

Posted by: John1263 | July 1, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

What we are experiencing is a lot of short-sighted economic decision making over the past 20 years. The worst of which has been to let manufacturing jobs migrate overseas to pursue cheap labor. For the past 20 years the fastest growing segment of our economy has been service sector jobs, which were propped up by an artificial real estate/banking/speculation industry that eventually went kaput. You cannot re-grow an economy based on corporate service jobs. We need manufacturing. Making stuff is what bolsters economies in tough times. Look at Germany. They serve as a good model.

The end result of our predicament is that it will take time (>5 yrs) to recover. We need to do is develop new manufacturing industries in novel areas and to keep those jobs at home. This new growth cannot be accomplished overnight. It takes solid science and engineering, which has also been migrating overseas.

Government is not the problem. Those that think this are in denial of the facts. The "let business do whatever it wants to do" philosophy (corporatocracy) is what got us here. It turns out putting businesses before people is not so good for businesses after all.

Posted by: citizen4truth1 | July 1, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

A very simple reasoning process ensues the constant flurry of contradictory economic news...at least for the reasonable human being who lives in breathes in this world...as opposed to another land of fairy tales and grandeur illusions of utopia.


1) This depression began with a massive wave of ASSET DESTRUCTION(home prices which were the most over-leveraged asset in the history of the world).

2) The destruction of asset prices and over-leveraging of the same resulted in a massive decline in local tax revenues.

3) Counties, parishes and municipalities became entirely reliant upon state monies to finance their operations of vital necessity (police, fire, trash, maintenance, water, etc.)

4) States are broke, yet currently carrying budgets which vastly exceed the best-case scenarios of future tax revenues.

5) The Federal government possesses the highest debt and deficit in the history of any nation in the world and is currently seeking new spending in order to combat "the economic crisis" and bolster "the recovery".

6) Corporations have been outsourcing and downsizing quite strategically for many years now...this process will soon begin to accelerate as new regulations, taxes and restrictions are placed on all income in the United States, both commercial and residential.

7) Home values continue to plummet, tax revenues continue the same trend and more people are losing their homes with each passing day...even as banks have staved off foreclosing on millions for more than a year now.

The fact of the matter is, there is no recovery. The stimulus did not help to avoid a depression as President Obama said in Wisconsin yesterday, it only delayed the inevitability of depression. Assets cannot be destroyed on such a grand scale without an ensuing cycle of absolute boom.

The Great Depression was ended by the greatest war in history and this nation's overdue realization of it's manufacturing capacity and export potential. All of the important aspects of the American economy in 1939 are now dispersed abroad or no longer relevant (steel & coal production, general manufacturing, subsistence agriculture). Our resources and ability to deploy those resources in an efficient manner is what led to our explosion. Many fail to realize that prior to the Depression, America was not the great empire and dominating, respected force in the world that it is now. It was not until 1945 that America had earned the respect of the world and the title of superpower.

In the end, history is only repeating itself. Nations flourish and falter upon the coin...and we have faltered and will crawl for a long stretch to come...but the world will crawl to our 6 for at least a few more years.

Posted by: TheFreeMan | July 1, 2010 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Jah3, it's unclear what your point is. Stimulus spending was the right thing to do and this post confirms it. If not for the stimulus, parts of the States would have turned into Morlocks versus Eloi.

Posted by: terry-the-censor | July 1, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

have to wonder why you worry about the economic engine that is the USA

End paste:

Stop there.

GLOBAL ECONOMY.

US is one member of an UNFORMALIZED GU - GLOBAL UNION -

I have no interest in responding to anything else that is branched from this error.

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 6:33 AM | Report abuse

According to the National Association of Realtors, the index number ?

From article ?

You've got to START spending more time with Alan -

and less with this micro managed trailer data.

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 6:36 AM | Report abuse

Only because I can't post in any other forum on the WP -

I'll use this to reverberate my concerns.

Unless DOJ acts on Moody's ?

Moody's is ABOUT TO SINK THE US

And all I ask is the US DOJ puts LOCK HOLD ON Moody's - EVERYTHING - There ARE GOOD PEOPLE AT DOJ - I KNOW SO - there are also BAD people - I KNOW SO.

Seems the internal battle at DOJ determines the fate of the US.

Goodlingarites ?

OR - REAL people who REALLY CARE at DOJ - who SUPPORT JUSTICE for humanity...

The GRAND PARADOX of regulation that stands in the way of TRUE JUSTICE ?

Is nationalism -

International - almost typed internal - but 'internal to humanity' ? is CLOSE to 'international' as what it REALLY needs to be about- enough fragmented statements-

DOJ - ACT ON MOODY

or watch YOUR pensions VAPORIZE

SPAIN YESTERDAY - USA ?

We're NEXT - MAYBE Ireland first - don't ASK ME who the HELL AT THE IMF - or World Bank -I have worked with.

I liked Greenspan's comment yesterday - "and I know them ALL" - I REALLY LIKE ALAN - KIND SOUL - SMART - and he is humble too - to state he is only capable of offering ONE insight -

Time is running out -

If Moody's has opportunity to UPGRADE JUNK from Goldman ? and in 2010 ? downgrades US ?

No stimulus will even be AVAILABLE.

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 6:59 AM | Report abuse

I REMIND EVERYONE

To Give listen to Glenn Gould on the Goldberg Variations -

If familiar - REMINDER to return to the basics -

If unheard- email me at dev2@suntelia.com and I'll help you get there in MOMENTS to listen to it - Bach would NEVER have tried to capitalize on the witnessing of human potential.

I HIGHLY recommend the Nikilayeva offerings on the Goldberg variations as well.

My neighbor was from Russia and taught - Nikolayeva is INVALUABLE -

US DOJ on Russia lately ?

You miss the beauty of Russia -

Russia is a gift - to the West-

in my words?

Unbegotten -TRANCED UPON by the US DOJ

US DOJ - do NOT DARE INSULT Nikolayeva

I'm HAPPY what is about to happen.

AND US DOJ ?

SHOULD HAVE CAPPED CIA's ABILITY

We are about to REVEAL THE FULL POTENTIAL OF HUMANITY -

You go ahead and play catchup with crime -

The arts move forward.

I'm off to learn #13

EVEN Gould plays #13 CLOSE to Nikolayeva

There is NOTHING like #13 - in my view.

SO MUCH COMES INTO PLAY

My neighbor - she played it so - as if - hmm - I do have to wonder if Nikolayeva - oh nm - no, it can't be -!

SCREW YOU DOJ - on MISSING OUT ON THE BEST OFFERINGS FROM RUSSIA

for what ?

A 'pretty' real estate agent ?

Ricci out of the FBI should be RE-ASSIGNED TO ALASKA.

USELESS

Tim Miltz


Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 7:15 AM | Report abuse

US DOJ - you're STERILE

Go after MOODY's

GO AFTER GOLDMAN

LEAVE Russia alone

Cold war is OVER

Russians have DEEP CULTURE - the offerings FAR OUTWEIGH ANY ALTERNATIVE.

Some of the BEST people I've EVER KNOWN come from Russia- SO FAR - seems i've avoided the Russian Mob - MED and PUT are QUESTIONABLE - sure - but let us NOT discount the Russian people(s) by a few misled souls who find temporary artificial value through energy profits out of Russia.

Russia is NOT THREAT DOJ

MOODY'S is ABOUT TO DOWNGRADE the US Treasury -

AFTER it TOP GRADED Goldman's CDO's -

And now says- SEE? you were DUMB ENOUGH TO BUY THEM - YOU WILL NOW - BE DOWNGRADED -

No - NO and NO

YOU DO THIS DOJ - YOU GO AFTER MOODY's

and you won't have to face MORE LOSS than Iraq AND AFGHANISTAN COMBINED LIFE WISE.

That's not COUNTING Johns Hopkins estimate of 600,000 SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND LIVES LOST IN IRAQ - UNRELATED to - hmm- carpet bomb a city - looking for Saddam - ?

YOU GO AFTER MOODY's

or you have EVERY US AGENT EXPOSED IN THE WORLD.

COME TO MY DOOR

547 LOCUST STREET

Indiana PA 15701

Doesn't MATTER YOU FOOLS

it's GLOBALLY SET - AND READY

Let's PLAY F'n BALL DOJ

Tim Miltz

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 7:21 AM | Report abuse

conomic data out today suggest economic recovery cannot continue without government help

From the author of this article who I have respect for.

Is it not lack of government ? that allowed this rampant occupation of wolves in the hen house ? POST giving up Glass-Steagall ?

Indeed -

It is a THIN LINE I WALK respecting Greenspan's NO REGULATION - or really - you have to look a bit more into it - it's not so much 'no regulation' - Alan COUNTED ON that Wall Street WOULD HAVE PROTECTED THEIR ASSe.....ts

They didn't.

Tell me - when you are gambling - or compulsory - you pass it back to your parents... Seems Wall Street REALLY passed this onto not parents -but CHILDREN.

I'll GUT the DOJ unless the DOJ ACTS on this.

USELESS UNLESS YOU DO.

DO YOU HAVE ANY CLUE - Greenspan GETS THIS - HOW CLOSE WE CAME ?

This is the GREATEST GLOBAL ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE IN WESTERN HISTORY

DO you GET THAT DOJ ?

If you can't ACT on THAT ?

WHAT USE ARE YOU

Hey FBI ? State and local - ALL good people trying their best.

But They are NOT SUBJECT AS IN MILITARY -

DOJ ISSUANCE OF MATTERS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED?

WHO IS GUIDING THE DOJ ?

I want to know

Inquiring minds want to know....

WHAT USE ARE YOU DOJ

IF you can't PROTECT when the SEC is LIMP to say- hey - Moody's is TRIPLE A'ing TRASH - and selling it OFF TO OTHER NATIONS.

CRIME ? MAYBE you said - ah ha- this is outside of nationalism - no - I don't THINNNNNNNNNK SO.

GOODLINGARITES -

CORRUPT YOU ARE DOJ

AND YOU EITHER ACT

OR

WE WILL RELEASE EVERYTHING.

AND - GUESS WHAT

We're not ABOVE the LAW

WE WILL DO IT FROM - 'from'

INTERNATIONAL WATERS....

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 7:51 AM | Report abuse

THAT KEY SEND - LIGHTS UP MORE MACHINES ON THE INTERNET WITH DATA ALREADY OUT THERE-

YES- RUSSIAN COMPRESSION - NON - LOSSY - IS pretty damned good these days - eh ? NSA ? EH? NSA ? EH ? NSA ?

YOU turned me away NSA - I TOOK MY TALENTS ELSEWHERE YOU USELESS MASTERS IN MATHEMATICS - I'm god damned POST DOCTORATE IF YOU WANT TO EVALUATE JUST WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF- USUALLY that work involves PEER REVIEW - oh - I have PEERS - they are NOBODIES - NO ONE KNOWS THEM - EVERY Russian friend I have packs a MASTERS IN MATHEMATICS JUST FOR FUN and they earned that not by degree - but through HARD WORK - ALAS - what I HAVE AGGREGATED MY INTELLECT TOWARDS - AGAINST - and WITH - HARD HARD WORK...

PAYOFF ?

Nationalism has a problem of 'security'-

THE GOD DAMN MOTHER SEED SITS IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS DOJ - you can't STOP it - NO ONE CAN - WE HAVE YOU - Extorting the US DOJ doesn't paint my future TOO FREE- but you know ? It's not about me - it's about US - we're not HOSTILE - we WANT JUSTICE - and YOU are NOT DELIVERING - and if you DO NOT LOCK DOWN ON MOODY's BEFORE ? MONTHS NOW - IF YOU DO NOT ?

WE WILL UNLOCK YOU

INTERNATIONAL WATERS -

sound familiar ?

WHO else uses international waters to skate accountability ?

YOU BET -

I LEFT - I SUGGEST DOJ - you ACT on Moody's or kiss your pensions GOODBYE.

I don't know how else to say it

I WOULD suggest you look up who my neighbor is from the Ukraine - DOJ

YOU HAVE NO CLUE -

I HIGHLY SUGGEST EVERYONE listen to the Goldberg Variations - ok - MONTHLY - me ? daily - but I'm working on #13

you ?

TRUTH ?

Bach spelled it out a LONG TIME AGO

Money doesn't TOUCH that.

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 7:54 AM | Report abuse

Frank ?

"According to the National Association of Realtors"

I swim with IMF and GB -

I wish you the best- I regard you as a GENUINE PLAYER

JUST A HEADS UP - really- this isn't my usual rant on ego -

I think every chance we can get to give an ear to Alan - is a good day - and Alan DOES say - in all humbleness - no one can understand it all- he brings forth all one can want - humbleness - it IS technically a paradox that he DID say in a matter of an hour - that he doesn't support any regulation what so ever - and I get that- but he also said he supports the right of the people to say- hey - something wasn't right - and he commented that indeed - it will probably overshoot - no one called him on that grand paradox in the hour long interview - I am left too with a conundrum - but if I were to engender - a word I had SO LONG FORGOTTEN - until I noticed Alan used it 3 times at LEAST ? it really is a versatile verb - hmm - two words with v from me - I should validate and verify that I value what Alan's intellectual venues ventriculate - ok - I'm reaching on Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language on Derivational Morphology - the creation of new words? and do we ever wonder where the come from ? Tolkein and C.S. Lewis BOTH were in charge of the Oxford English Dictionary - and BOTH admitted to introducing MANY new words- without the TYPICAL momentum in cultural usage - but hey- ventriculate - ok ok enough on V

Sure with someone understood the ordinal position of the alphabet I'm on to here - V - me too !

No really- all linguistics fun aside.

I'd say - Alan has something to offer -and I think we should give him ear -and ALSO - carry it further.

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

FIRST OFF

I POST THE ENTIRE THING down to the last CHARACTER and it says - WP will review this...

I break it up ?

F YOU


Such as -

Alan said the EU has SERIOUS problems.

That - I can take and expect BONUS to the USD on Bretton II - EU sways - USD gains.

I get his point that the EU was a HARD idea- and at IMF - they didn't THINK it could work -but it did - BUT Alan points out there are irresponsible players in the EU - Greece- Spain - I call them adolescents - It's all so interesting to me - I REALLY like that Alan says - NO one person can understand it all- 185 IQ ? you BET I'm PULLED IN - I like challenges - I see China to Iraq? on oil alone - but Iraq unable to decide - who to serve - Rice is gone - even though Hunt Oil was denied by Iraqi Oil Ministry - Sunoco, Exxon, Conoco- BP - all went online in July 2008- first time in Iraq oil fields since Saddam took them offline- odd oil went to $150 - - Alan says it will be YEARS before we understand what happened - I say -the field I'm in ? the data I've seen ? Lehman and BS BOTH were mechanisms in driving up oil futures to jack it up to $150 - then ? we all paid - for what ? nothing...

and here comes DOJ - BLIND

and alas - why -

I live to die - to see the END of the DOJ - and we DO have MORE data out of the DOJ than the DOJ even knows they have - we have EVERYTHING - and we update - but - we secure it in international waters - CIA style- you know ?

HOW BOUT THEM APPLES

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 8:11 AM | Report abuse

I really like you Frank

I get a GOOD intelligent read from you.

Hope you can distill all of this

I'll help you though.

US DOJ employees either GET a pension ?

OR ?

They fail to nail Moody's -

I think I reversed that for the DOJ

EFCC9A1392B6EF7AF6A4

and you REALLY have to watch our for F6A4's- I'm tellin' ya

Porter Goss may be gone - but we put in one HELLUVA TAG SYSTEM

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Moody's downgrades Spain - YESTERDAY

Hans Timmer of World bank called that -

HE ALSO CALLS US gets downgraded in 2010.

When that happens ?

DEFICIT ?

Which is FINE if it's backed ?

US gets downgraded ?

And it will ?

China OR Japan won't touch us - even Germany won't lend to us.

Yet ? amazingly just human beings live all over the planet - divided - for what reason ?

OH i know, so we can threaten ourselves with nuclear weapons over our arbitrary abstract territories we draw on MOVING TECTONIC PLATES -

PLEASE KILL ME NOW

Tim Miltz

Of course I want to live to change things - or witness change !

Posted by: ColdSun | July 2, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company