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Nancy Pelosi's strategy for passing health-care reform

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"My biggest fight has been between those who wanted to do something incremental and those who wanted to do something comprehensive," Nancy Pelosi said in a meeting with reporters this morning. "We won that fight, and once we kick through this door, there'll be more legislation to follow."

Easier said than done, as anyone who's been watching this process knows. Democrats have been on the verge of passing health-care reform for many months now, but for all the doors they've kicked in, they've found more doors waiting on the other side. But today, Pelosi made her clearest statements yet on how she means to finish this bill. The issue is how to sequence the Senate health bill, which the House doesn't like, with the package of fixes (including, Pelosi said, the elimination of the Nebraska and Florida deals, the delay of the excise tax, more affordability and oversight provisions and more funding of community health centers), which the House does like. There are a number of procedural options on the table, but today, Pelosi said that she favors the “deem and pass” strategy.

Here's how that will work: Rather than passing the Senate bill and then passing the fixes, the House will pass the fixes under a rule that says the House "deems" the Senate bill passed after the House passes the fixes.

The virtue of this, for Pelosi's members, is that they don't actually vote on the Senate bill. They only vote on the reconciliation package. But their vote on the reconciliation package functions as a vote on the Senate bill. The difference is semantic, but the bottom line is this: When the House votes on the reconciliation fixes, the Senate bill is passed, even if the Senate hasn't voted on the reconciliation fixes, and even though the House never specifically voted on the Senate bill.

It's a circuitous strategy born of necessity. Pelosi doesn't have votes for the Senate bill without the reconciliation package. But the Senate parliamentarian said that the Senate bill must be signed into law before the reconciliation package can be signed into law. That removed Pelosi's favored option of passing the reconciliation fixes before passing the Senate bill. So now the House will vote on reconciliation explicitly and the Senate bill implicitly, which is politically easier, even though the effect is not any different than if Congress were to pass the Senate bill first and pass the reconciliation fixes after. This is all about plausible deniability for House members who don't want to vote for the Senate bill, although I doubt many voters will find the denials plausible.

But the question remains: Will the bill pass? Pelosi seems confident. "I have no intention of not passing this bill," she said. Her political argument was a lot clearer than her procedural preference. Time, she argued, has been the Democrats' worst enemy. "Every interest group that doesn't want this bill, including the Republicans, benefits from continued delay." The absence of a single bill that's not changing or being merged or being amended has meant that Democrats can't explain what's actually in the bill with any confidence or clarity.

That will end in a matter of days. "The bill is locked down," Pelosi says. "We're just waiting for the Congressional Budget Office." When the bill emerges, Democrats will be able to say "definitively" what is in it. And then, Pelosi believes, her caucus will see that this is "the most important bill most of us will ever pass," that it is legislation on par "with Social Security and Medicare." The bottom line, Pelosi says, is that "I have faith in my members." In a couple of days, we'll see if that faith is well-founded.

Photo credit: By Lauren Victoria Burke/Associated Press

By Ezra Klein  |  March 15, 2010; 1:31 PM ET
Categories:  Health Reform  
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Comments

Nancy Pelosi is a historical figure already, being the first woman Speaker of the House, but if she's able to get 216 Democrats to all march in the same direction and vote for this bill, this is a monumental accomplishment.

Especially when you consider the diversity of opinion and ideology of the current Democrat party. We really only have one national party in this country, living under constant assault from an increasingly hostile, embittered right-wing peanut gallery of idiots from flyover country.

Posted by: zeppelin003 | March 15, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

This seems a monumentally stupid way to pass the bill, if only because it plays into the hands of people like Michelle Bachman. If, on the other hand, this is how you get the bill passed then so be it. People don't remember, or at least don't think about, the procedural hurdles that Social Security or COBRA overcame to become law. They just care about the law and how it impacts the country, and I suppose we'll just have to see on that.

The argument about "comprehensive" reform versus "incremental" reform is annoying. The Senate bill is incremental reform. The House bill was incremental reform. A bill with a public option would have been incremental. What this bill is *not* is piecemeal reform. It's not just trying to reform the delivery system, or hold down costs, or expand coverage. This bill is trying to reform to reform the whole system. The degree to which is succeeds will be debatable, but it will still just be one step in a long journey composed of several stages of reform.

Posted by: MosBen | March 15, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Hold on Ezra for a minute - 'did you not say just sometime back that doing this implicit business is bad?' Your words - bad, bad....

So what is going on here? Why is this jump by you then?

Me - quite ambivalent about the procedural stuff. Not that Dems have any 'squeaky clean' strategy here. With 'recon' they are on bit of slippery road already. So House doing 'implicit business for Senate version' what is a big deal! Dems are already compromised from procedural perspective so much, substantive hit of that is sunk cost. It is the question of what would they get in return, do they want to take in anything 'in return' by passing the bill.

Posted by: umesh409 | March 15, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

OK, Ezra, so what then does the Senate do? If the House passes the reconciliation bill that deems the Senate bill passed, is the President able to sign the Senate-passed, House-deemed version without the reconciliation bill? Or does he have to wait until the Senate passes the reconciliation bill before he can sign either?

Where does the ball bounce next? And if the Senate has to pass the reconciliation bill first, will they be able to do so under reconciliation, seeing that the reconciliation bill implicitly carries the entire bill with it? Has this ever been done before?

Posted by: boloboffin1 | March 15, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

It's kind of funny to see Pelosi put people like Boehner and McConnell in their place. The Republicans are looking more and more like a bunch of panicked kittens.

One almost feels sorry for the Republicans and the Blue Dog Democrats who are so frightened that health care will pass that they are willing to fritter away every last shred of respectability they might have had left just to desperately prevent passage.

Those who vote against health care will have a lot of explaining to do in November. I wonder whether one or two Republicans may not at the last minute decide that they want to go down in the history books as having stood for something other than weakness and injustice and vote for health care reform after all.

Posted by: opinionpieces | March 15, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I keep reading that 216 is the magic number of votes required to pass the HCR bill. What about abstentions? If Pelosi convinced 10 undecided Democrats to spend voting day outside of Washington would not 211 votes be enough to pass the bill? And is this a likely or unlikely scenario in US politics?

Posted by: GermanGreen | March 15, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

As I said this very morning, I think this implicit passage stuff is stupid. My view on that hasn't changed. But if Pelosi needs it to get the votes, she needs it to get the votes.

Posted by: Ezra Klein | March 15, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

umesh,

you forget. When Republicans use gimmickry its bad. For Dems its "about time".

So will we now have a "phantom signing" by the President since the assumption is made that it passed the House?

opinionpieces,

Do you really believe that the November elections (if healthcare passes) won't be a referendum on it? Ezra (and every other sane person) believes Dems will lose (some believe big, some not so big). Do you not share that philosophy? Do you think the Dems will maintain their majorities??

Posted by: visionbrkr | March 15, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Our family is outraged that they are attempting to push this horrific expensive massive invasive health care takeover that is not cost reform down our throats. Pelosi and Reid have used every nasty dirty trick to weave this pathetic bill together. We do not like the hiding of the bills of the day, the closed door meetings, the slimy deals, the bribes, the double talk and bold faced lies. Pelosi has done nothing to be proud of and she is an absolute disgrace. Her wasting of funds at a time the rest of the country is hurting is a sin. Her hypocrisy of ignoring ethical problems until it no longer suited her cause is sickening. I find her a complete fraud and phony and certainly will not use her as an example of someone to look up to for my family. I will use her to show how corrupt one can become when totally drunk on power.

Posted by: greatgran1 | March 15, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Do the Democrats who might vote for the bill under "deem and pass" really believe the electorate is so stupid that they can't see through the ploy? They'll still get hammered in November.

Posted by: ygbrown2001 | March 15, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

A small defense of the proposed procedure is that if the bill was proceeding normally, the house passes a bill, the senate passes a bill, the conference committee parses the differences and then each house passes the package. Thus, normally, we'd expect each house to vote one more time. The proposed procedure has one vote for the house and one vote for the Senate, just as is done normally. Is the strangeness of the Senate really the House's problem?

Posted by: windshouter | March 15, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone in America really think this is a good bill? We can do so much better -please start over and do it right.

Posted by: sarno | March 15, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

THE THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THESE ARE MARXISTS. "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED". PLEASE PEOPLE, DO ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO DO TO STOP THIS AMERICAN TRAGEDY.

Posted by: jhr1 | March 15, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Good, reporting! This procedural stuff is hard to get right. While I have no inside knowledge, the "deeming" strategy seems to make sense. BTW a vote on a budget resolution in the House is deemed a vote on a debt limit increase, so there is precedent here.

There is some ability to delay sending the passed bill to the President ("holding it at the desk"). What are you hearing about this possibility?

Posted by: luxetveritas | March 15, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Gee, I thought that was Acts 4:34-35. That's Marxism? The early Christians were Marxists? Who knew?

Posted by: boloboffin1 | March 15, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Dear Nancy Pelosi:

Thank you - on behalf of the millions of small businesses who struggle to provide health insurance to their employees and who will be subsidized under this bill.

Thank you - on behalf of the millions of children without access to health care who will be covered under this bill.

Thank you - on behalf of the millions of senior citizens who can't afford medicine because of the Medicare donut-hole and who will be covered under this bill.

Thank you - on behalf of the millions of people who are denied or lose coverage every year because they become or were sick (including pregnant!) who will be protected under this bill.

Dear Nancy Pelosi: thank you.

Sincerely,
America

PS: By the way, thank you also for REDUCING government spending on health care $1.1 TRILLION (with a "t"), net-net, while you are at it. Well done.

Posted by: paul65 | March 15, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

If you oppose this HC legislation, pick up the phone and call your Democratic congressional representative in the House in Washington DC. The phone number can be found at WWW.CALLCONGRESSNOW.COM. Choose your state and corresponding district. But call now.

WWW.CALLCONGRESSNOW.COM

Posted by: bbwk80a1 | March 15, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse


The Lib Dems really are an incompetent mess. A disaster. Their own arrogance, lack of leadership, ignorance, deception and hyper liberalism have them ineffective and untrustworthy. Their own behavior, nothing else, has the public rejecting their radical ideology. Their demise cannot come soon enough. For America to remain Strong it can only absorb so much insane Govt dictated liberal policy.

Elections of 2010 & 12 Cannot Come Soon Enough !!

Posted by: jas7751 | March 15, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Will the bill address the continuing rise in health insurance premiums for the forseeable future? Is that one of the planned subsequent legislations? I thought this process was supposed to be transparent. Please, lets not just pass something to pass it and be left looking around at one another, dumbly wondering what happened? We need more certainty on such sweeping legislation, this appears to be a 'make or break' moment for our nation, and the legislators don't seem sure of what the bill will or won't do.

Posted by: Sanglant25 | March 15, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi will stop at nothing to get this passed regardless of what america thinks of it. She stated that more is coming.. so I guess we all need to hold onto our wallets since the Govt isn't going to be done after another trillion plus in debt.

When does the spending spree ever stop? How much is too much? Our taxes will go up, it will not help reduce costs.. rather it will increase them by 10-15% and additionally the health insurance we currently get will now be taxed as income reducing our take home pay. Employers will either have to cut the benefit down or pay taxes on it. So that means less employment.. more people on the Govt dole and further debt.

The only people who will make out in this plan are insurance companies, healthcare companies and the new Govt office created to administer the plan.

Posted by: tbastian | March 15, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

paul65:

You haven't even seen the "reconciliation" CBO estimate yet (even so, 81% of voters say it's likely the plan will end up costing more than projected).

boloboffin1:

The U.S. is not a theocracy (nice try though ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 15, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

As it appears to be a case of bribes and threats of ethics charges against those in opposition, it looks to me this so called reform is not needed. Nobody that I know disagrees with health care reform, but this is not it.

Posted by: gmclain | March 15, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

This is the worse corruption I have ever seen come out of Washington, D.C.

Shame on the democrats. I deem them criminals. I will pass on every voting for a slimebucket democrat EVER AGAIN.

The children are watching the parasites in D.C. lie, cheat, and steal.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 15, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

The Senate will still have to vote to approve this House fix-it bill, but will only need a simple majority since it's reconciliation.

Posted by: rogernebel | March 15, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Nancy for president!I mean it stupid conservatives.

Posted by: rappahanock | March 15, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

This should be called the Hugo Chavez legislative procedure.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 15, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

What happened to Sen. Byrd who said that "reconciliation" was inappropriate for Hillarycare? Just wait until the GOP take back Congress and "cut the deficit" using reconciliation (the Dems will start screaming BLOODY MURDER and it will serve them right).

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 15, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Now for all this convoluted logic, does Nancy Pelosi really think that this mess could pass constitutional muster? DRRRRREEEEEEMMMMM ON

Posted by: peterroach | March 15, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

The level of desperation apparent in the opponents is the best indicator yet that this thing is finally going to pass. Praise be!

Posted by: Mimikatz | March 15, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I keep reading that 216 is the magic number of votes required to pass the HCR bill. What about abstentions? If Pelosi convinced 10 undecided Democrats to spend voting day outside of Washington would not 211 votes be enough to pass the bill? And is this a likely or unlikely scenario in US politics?

Posted by: GermanGreen

---------------------

Do you honestly think that any member of Congress is going to duck the most important vote in the last 10-20 years? Skipping this vote means automatically losing reelection. Voters on both sides will rebel against anyone who ducks a vote this important.

What's more, pushing people out of Washington smacks of dirty politics. It sounds more like the Rump Parliament of the English Revolution when Parliamentarian supporters literally blocked Royalists from getting in the door to guarantee that they'd have enough votes to pursue their anti-Royal agenda. Massa looks like a nutcase right now, but push ten people out of Washington and tell them not to vote, and suddenly Massa's story looks very credible. This tactic would play out disastrously.

For that matter, this deem-and-pass tactic also could be disastrous. If it has the votes, Republicans are going to be able to hang this around Democrats' necks for months to come--"Pelosi and her cronies didn't even allow a vote on the Senate bill! They pushed it into law, circumvented democracy, and denied people the right to be heard on the bill!" Do Democrats really want this written on their graves?

But, hey, it's not like San Francisco will ever boot Pelosi from office, so what does she have to worry about? The worst that happens to her is that she is no longer Speaker, and she seems more than willing to throw that away if it means passing this bill.

My only question is whether or not the House parliamentarian will actually allow this deem-and-pass maneuver? I mean, the Senate is not allowed to pass revisions until the bill is signed into law, but the House can skip a vote on the bill by passing the revisions, thereby allowing Obama to sign the bill into law, and thereby allowing the Senate to pass the revisions that the House used to fake-pass the bill in the first place? This just doesn't make sense. If the Senate cannot pass revisions until the bill is signed into law, then the House shouldn't be able to pass those revisions either.

Either do an up-or-down vote on the Senate bill as it was passed, or pass a different bill and send it back to the Senate. Sheesh.

Posted by: blert | March 15, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

after this long struggle, we will have legislation that will make a difference for so many americans.
and under the leadership of barack obama and nancy pelosi!!
finally, we have some lift and momentum again.
the day this passes, will be a great celebration for all of us!!!!
thank you, barack obama for keeping this promise.
and thank you, nancy pelosi, for enduring this long struggle and bringing us health care reform!

change we can believe in!!!!!
:-)

Posted by: jkaren | March 15, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi's sneaky approach is NOT the way to enact any legislation.


Posted by: Jerzy | March 15, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

So,let me be clear here,again the pictures
of the San Francisco Botox Queen Mad Madame
Nancy Pelosi show what a pathological liar
and out of control,out of touch with reality totally dangerous psychotic thug
Nancy Pelosi has become just like Der Leader from Kenya Comrade Dictator Liar in
Chief Barack Hussein Obama and Democrat US
Senate Majority Leader Dingy Harry Reid!
NO To These Communist Lunatics Damn Marxist Troika Obama,Pelosi and Reid and
Hell No To Obamacare & Illegal Alien Criminals Amnesty As Well! Vote All Democrats Out in 2010 and 2012! Help send
these Psychos to jail or nuthouse where
Obama,Pelosi and Reid belong!

Posted by: KarenKay2009 | March 15, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I bet that Nancy threatened to come in to the House with out here daily Botox treatment. That be enough to scare the democrats in to voting here way. She, like obama, hates America and is bent on the Socialism being the rule of the land before she is thrown out. That way they can both be in there for life and continue the destruciton of Freedom and The Greates Nation ever known. They have already fed the masses the kool aid and now comes the chains of opression and slavery if they get their way.

Posted by: jmsmaxwell | March 15, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

What a bunch of hors_ shi_! No matter how you lean -- right or left, you've got to ask yourself about her ethics. Are the American people actually going to allow this to happen?

Posted by: JAH3 | March 15, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

No law, however long debated and evaluated, is perfect. So, PASS IT!!!! It will afterwards be adjusted to reflect the needs of the age, as we go.

That's what happened with Civil Rights, Social Security, MediCare, etc.

Posted by: AMviennaVA | March 15, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The WashPo comment policy is rather strange. You allow the right wing whackos all sorts of leeway to spew their venom, calling people liars and far worse. But should someone with a liberal perspective dare say something even remotely disrespectful about people like War Criminal Dick Cheney and his hateful daughter, then their comment is history. Bottom line on this issue, this bill (not perfect, but certainly an improvement on the status quo) must be passed and if it has to be done in a circuitous manner, so what!

Posted by: DEKinA2 | March 15, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Zepplin: Your comments about "flyover country idiots" is a great example of the out-of-control elitism so prevalent in politicians today. For a country founded against tyrrany of an aristocracy, this is sad to see.

We are effectively in a minority-rule government.

Someone else noted that "anyone voting against this bill will be in trouble in November" - I don't know what planet you are living on but a huge number of people have indicated that they will vote OUT anyone who votes FOR this bill.

The elitist minority in NY, SF, LA, DC, Miami and Chicago are so out-of-touch with the real people of America that it would be funny if it were not so tragic.

Watch the stock market PLUMMET and the jobless claims SOAR if this monstrosity becomes law.

Just what we all don't need in the midst of this recession.

Another point - If it passes in its current form, everyone's taxes go up immediately while any benefits take 3 or more years to kick in...

Posted by: Luke-John | March 15, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Except that the Constitution EXPLICITLY STATES THE EXACT MECHANICAL PROCEDURE FOR PASSING A BILL.

What you are advocating is the nullification of the constitution and rule of law.

Posted by: gorak | March 15, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

So, basically they'll pretend to have voted for the plan, but think they can go back to face their constituents and claim they didn't vote for it. Oooookay, let's see how that works out for them.

Posted by: imfree | March 15, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Any member of congress who votes this bill an up for election is gone after november.

Posted by: KBlit | March 15, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Deem and pass is a 'circuitous route' alright, right around the U.S. Constitution, which specifically states that any measure passing Congress must be enacted by the yeas and nays.
A self-enacting bill does not meet this constitutional stipulation, and this unethical ploy will most certainly wind up before the Supreme Court.
And when the justices uphold the Constitution, those House dems who participated in this scheme will have no choice but to resign. For they will have violated their oath of office to obey and uphold the Constitution.

Posted by: mtpeaks | March 15, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

THE THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THESE ARE MARXISTS. "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED". PLEASE PEOPLE, DO ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO DO TO STOP THIS AMERICAN TRAGEDY

Posted by: jhr1 | March 15, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

It is difficult to compare eras in The Beltway - especially since this is the twilight years of the ego-driven "ME" period amongst elected officials - but Pelosi has the cunning of Sam Rayburn to shape policy and push forward a consensus when it appears that none can be achieved.

Posted by: richardcoreno | March 15, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Passing this with a "we deem it passed" and no actual vote will be the biggest travesty and outright dereliction of rule of law and ethics that everyone expects from their Congress that I have ever seen. Do elected officials now play by the game of trickery and deception along with the bribes to buy votes we have been watching?
This bill will be forever tainted and go down in history as one that went against what the majority wanted of a redo with more specific changes and not a power grab by government forcing every citizen into buying something they may not want or facing fines. This is not like car insurance whereas if I choose not to drive I don't need to buy insurance. This in fact says if I choose to breath, I must buy health insurance or be hounded by the IRS with possible jail time. Totally outrageous!!

Posted by: justmyvoice | March 15, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Obama = Carter 2.0 Cheers!

Posted by: MPNangle | March 15, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Can someone comment on the constitutionality of this "deeming" concept? This seems a rather risky route if there is any questions of whether this will survive court challenge.

Posted by: lancediverson | March 15, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

It is difficult to compare eras in The Beltway - especially since this is the twilight years of the ego-driven "ME" period amongst elected officials - but Pelosi has the cunning of Sam Rayburn to shape policy and push forward a consensus when it appears that none can be achieved.

Posted by: richardcoreno | March 15, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

'GermanGreen' asks above "I keep reading that 216 is the magic number of votes required to pass the HCR bill. What about abstentions?" and 'blert' responds.

Most of the people who will be voting on the "sidecar" package have never seen the sidecar package, so it is reasonable to assume that the same people who would vote on something unseen would also be willing to absent themselves for the sake of passage; however, from my count, Pelosi has 218 votes, with at most 4 of those being truly fence-sitting, so additional absentees probably aren't needed.

For months, many -- including the sitting President -- have urged an up-or-down vote on health care reform and using a deem-and-pass alternative to such an up-or-down vote seems to be the coward's way out... it makes filibuster rules seem rather noble by comparison.

Posted by: rmgregory | March 15, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I've never been a fan of political litigation whether it be from the ACLU or the NRA but if this thing passes, the ONLY people likely to benefit for the next 10 years or more are the lawyers who will be bringing constitutional challenge after constitutional challenge before every court in the land.

queen Nancy and her minions had better take note that we the people will remember who made this ridiculously expensive farce happen.

On the other hand, I guess the politicians have seen to it that their buddies in the financial industry have made out like bandits, now it's the turn of their buddies in the legal profession. I wonder who's next for a big handout at taxpayer expense.

Posted by: Luke-John | March 15, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

This contorted dishonest way to pass a bill is going to bite the dems in the rear.At the present time she wants a bunch of fixes passed to a bill that NOONE can describe accurately. If this was the greatest change that could ever occur it will still be disliked and those who pass it will be diminished for OKing it. It is unclear, unfinished, and should not be passed. There are a million things to fix with health. There is a law that exists that would reduce all medical accepted costs by 21%. Ask yourself why the Dems have put this on the shelf?????

Posted by: billsailer | March 15, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

It sounds like it was the House parliamentarian who advised the deem and pass procedure.

This is great fun. Anyone notice Obama called for "Courage" today in Ohio in the face of misinformation?

Posted by: brendan4 | March 15, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Must be pretty hard for you wingnuts to accept that despite your stridency, despite your fear-mongering, despite your name-calling, despite your lies, a majority that disagrees with you is actually going to accomplish something. And by the way, you can forget the unconstitutional argument. The Constitution allows the Congress to pass its own procedural rules, and as arcane as deem and pass is, it's constitutional. And by the way, there's a huge difference between socialized medicine and socialism.

Posted by: jlhare1 | March 15, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

The fact that you print anything said by Nancy Palosi, Charles Rangel, Christopher Dodd and Harry Reid without a disclaimers reflects poorly on your newspaper.

"We have to pass this bill to find out what's in it" must surely rank high in a pantheon of stupidity, self service and disingenuousness. Her vision of the American public may be truer than we wish to admit but to propagate such drivel borders on criminal reporting without analysis.

The fact that she is allowed out without a keeper and is among the richest among us demonstrates the real need for election reform and a better educational systems, if only to educate the electorate.

Posted by: DrMysterious | March 15, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Kicking in doors is a crime. Ignoring the Ameican people, who don't want American style socialized medicine in America, is the more literal description of that crime. It is the use of government's power of force against the people it is supposed to represent. It is the violation of the human rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If, by legislation, I no longer have the liberty to opt in or out of anyone else's plan, I do not have the means to act for my happiness, the condition that motivates me to keep my life. Choice is one of the spiritual conditions of a human life (and I'm not being religious, when I say that).
What shall we do to punish that crime? We have reached a moment in US history when too many people have been pushed into thinking on that very question.

Posted by: pbeaird | March 15, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Hilarious. The writer and many commenters are essentially saying, "It circumvents the rules but it gives us a win, so do it." Wow. And the Republicans are supposed to be the greedy, ruthless, unprincipled ones?

Posted by: liam358 | March 15, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

If the American people don't rise up and march on Washington one more time the Elitists will pass this extra-constitutional power grab. They don't care that your premiums will skyrocket to pay the 5/6 of costs hidden by gaming this bill to the limitations of the CBO scoring rules. They don't care that the crushing tax burden and employer mandates imposed by this bill will snuff out the hints of jobless recovery, driving unemployment to depression levels. And all to cover people who already cannot be denied health care by law?
THE TIME IS NOW TO SAVE THE REPUBLIC! MARCH ON THE CAPITOL! STAGE SIT-INS OR MOVING BLOCKADES TO PREVENT CONGRESS FROM MEETING! ONLY BY AGAIN DEMONSTRATING THE FULL FURY OF THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL MAJORITY CAN THIS ECONOMICALLY SUICIDAL BILL BE STOPPED! ONLY PROPPED UP BY THE SUPPORT OF CONSTITUENTS CAN WAVERING DEMS STAND UP TO THE CORRUPT PRACTICES OF THE OBAMA/REID/PELOSI OLIGARCHY!

Posted by: UncomfortableTruths | March 15, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Wow, when did I leave America, "Land Of The Free, Home Of The Brave?" This rubbish is something I expect from countries like Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, or any other notoriously corrupt countries. Polls clearly indicate the majority of the country are against this Bill, yet the voices of few will decide the fates of many. Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves. We fought the revolutionary war to escape the tyranny of English rule, the Civil War over tariffs (ie: taxes) and now the left wants to revert back to similar systems of government? All I can say is wow... I look forward to Pelosi and Reed getting the boot. The only problem is I may not be able to follow their demise when I can't afford the internet or cable once my taxes increase exponentially because of Congress' irresponsibility/lapse in Bush era tax cuts.

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

I wonder where the scumbag supporersof this will be when the scope of the disaster becomes evident. They'll be back under their rocks. This is most like the scummiest process in our history. Te money-grubbing peons who are so delighted because they think someone else is going to pay for their healthcare are as repulsive as the politicians.

Posted by: standard_guy | March 15, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

The day that House dems shred the Constitution to get their way, is the day I tear up my party registration and go ABD: Anybody But Democrats!

Posted by: mtpeaks | March 15, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

My only confusion, as with boloboffin1, lies with the point at which the President can (or, perhaps more importantly, will) sign the original bill into law. After the House 'deems' the original bill to be passed, or after the Senate passes the reconciliation package?

Posted by: rob042 | March 15, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

greatgran1 more facist propaganda The only Boldface liar is YOU. Lets seperate fact from fiction, The bill will not raise the deficit and so what if it did? The bottom line is Right vs Privilege. If you find someone bleeding on the sidewalk and you are a Doctor you must care for them right? that is healthcare. Open your eyes or change your lenses it is a right. Otherwise if the Doctor does not CARE for the victim the doctor goes to prison. If it were a privilege he could ignore the victim and wait until his check clears. Opps that is how it works now!!

Posted by: Android3 | March 15, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

"Deem and pass" will "ream the a**" of the Democrat Party.

Posted by: ThisIsReality | March 15, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi was recently quoted as saying, "I guess we'll have to pass the health reform bill so that the people can see what's in it." WELL, DO IT!

I am amazed that so many people in the general public are "for" or "against" a piece of legislation that they know NOTHING, in fact, about!

All we know is what this person or that person, or groups, tell us! WE HAVE BEEN FED A LOT OF WRONG INFORMATION by politicians and special interest groups.

LET'S MOVE FORWARD, FOLKS! Pass the bill, and we'll fix it; amend it; add to it; and whatever afterwards. That's what we do with all the other bills! We have to have something to start with.

Posted by: bwshook1 | March 15, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I just don't understand why we should waste time in the future getting up early on voting day to vote or wait in a long line after work to vote. Its a waste of time and a sham. Just let the politicians do whats "best for the American people"...They have an agenda and they really don't want to hear from us...They are the smartest, best educated at the best schools and we are just those uninformed, uneducated, unsophisticated dopes, who don't know whats good for them, but we here in DC know exactly what they need and whats best for them..I like that Nanny state idea.. I never have to waste time thinking again.. Whew !! what a load of my mind..

Posted by: james_m_reilly1 | March 15, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: boloboffin1 | March 15, 2010 2:22 PM
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Gee, I thought that was Acts 4:34-35. That's Marxism? The early Christians were Marxists? Who knew?

Thanks boloboffin1 for pointing out something that so few self-described "Christians" have any knowledge of; one would think that any serious Christian would want to know more about their chosen religion than what is propagated in their modern churches. And the response to your post by JakeD2 | March 15, 2010 2:34 PM
"boloboffin1:
The U.S. is not a theocracy (nice try though ; )"
seems spiteful rather than informative in that it doesn't in any way address what you wrote. Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand complex issues and viewpoints (doubtful, but I suppose it's possible... perhaps in another life?).

Posted by: xplorer59 | March 15, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

If any of the elected officials, vote yes for the healthcare without reading and understanding completely, a class action suit should be filed against each one for not upholding the oath they took before taking office. They are paid to do just that. Read, understand and communicate with the ones that voted them into office. As a registered democrat I am ashamed at what this party is becoming. Slackers and puppets entering into Pelosi's web from her itsey bitsey spider. I say flat tax wine $25.00 per bottle and watch Pelosi cry then. Forget the budget we need to see the 2009 bank account and check book. If also, the ones that vote yes for the healthcare are not re-elected in Nov. it should be against the law for them to hold an office that is paid with tax dollars or goverment money for we will know then they made a deal.

Posted by: cncjedi | March 15, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

What Pelosi is planning is unconstitutional. The Constitution, which last I heard is still the law of the land, provides that the bill that passes the House must be the IDENTICAL bill that passed the Senate before it can be sent to the president for signature.

It should come as no surprise whatsoever that the Left has no respect for the Constitution. At least they're not pretending anymore.

Posted by: rocks1 | March 15, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

What's really scary about this is the speaker's proclamation that once she 'kicks in this door' (i.e., absolves the Constitution), there will be much more legislation to follow.
Given that, House dems may want to first abolish the Supreme Court, for they most assuredly will get in the way.

Posted by: mtpeaks | March 15, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Android3--------- can't tell if your logic is flawed or whether your writing ability is that limited. Are you confusing the good Samaritan law? Now, explain to me how it is American to force people to purchase insurance in the face of fines or jail time?

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone thought about the repurcussions of "deeming" the bill passed? If the country turns against either the bill or the method of passing it, Republicans will be more than happy to "deem" many things passed. This is not Constitutional and is a pandora's box.

If the votes aren't there -- start over. Incremental changes would at least be bipartisan and not start a civil war. We need reform, but whether or not this 2,000+ bill does it, nobody knows. If it doesn't, in this economy it may very well bring out nation to its knees.

Be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: siridh | March 15, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: boloboffin1 | March 15, 2010 2:22 PM
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Gee, I thought that was Acts 4:34-35. That's Marxism? The early Christians were Marxists? Who knew?

Thanks boloboffin1 for pointing out something that so few self-described "Christians" have any knowledge of; one would think that any serious Christian would want to know more about their chosen religion than what is propagated in their modern churches. And the response to your post by JakeD2 | March 15, 2010 2:34 PM
"boloboffin1:
The U.S. is not a theocracy (nice try though ; )"
seems spiteful rather than informative in that it doesn't in any way address what you wrote. Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand complex issues and viewpoints (doubtful, but I suppose it's possible... perhaps in another life?).

Posted by: xplorer59 | March 15, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

This lame effort of trying to find cover for vulnerable Democrats will blow up in their faces this November.

Any Democrat that votes yes on the changes for this lamentable health care abortion will be voted directly to retirement this coming election cycle.

American's are awake, watching and taking names!

Posted by: wcochran60 | March 15, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

The problem is that many of us no longer believe what Speaker Nancy Pelosi says.

Posted by: LiveFree | March 15, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

I have nothing against Pelosi for gaming the system as best as she can. It's not much of a Civics lesson however.
But if we do get to a point where nobody operates in good faith anymore and distrusts everyone else, at least everyone will be equal in their cynicism towards our Big Brother Government.

Posted by: palmettostatesman | March 15, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

'What's the Constitution but a piece of paper with a bunch of words written on it.'
Nancy Pelosi and House dems join the George Bush Hall of Shame.

Posted by: mtpeaks | March 15, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

We're indebted to Pelosi and the rest of the Dems for passing this. This is our legacy for the hard-earned victory in 2008. If it passes, we'll finally have universal health care in this country -- something the rest of the civilized world has had for generation.

I truly believe that this "opens the door" as Speaker Pelosi put it to a much better system down the road. It's something we can all be proud of. The 'Good Society' as LBJ use to put it is still with us.

(Short term though, I've got to admit, what I'm enjoying most is how much it's pissing off that GUY WHO'S WRITING IN ALL CAPS.)

Posted by: leoklein | March 15, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

For all of GW's mistakes at least he never tried to alienate the majority of the country...

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

It's great to see the wing nuts squirming! Majority rule -- live with it!

Posted by: grclarkdc1 | March 15, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi and Obama... digging for any legal loophole to cram Big Government Healthcare down the throats of Americans against their wishes.

Democrats lose big in 2012

Posted by: Obama_TRAITOR_in_Chief | March 15, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Ezra

how come You're not invited to these bloggers' meetings. First geithner shunned you , now pelosi??

Posted by: ohwelloldstem | March 15, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

The "how" of doing this is less important that the "do" in doing this. If passing the fixes implicitly passes the Senate bill and causes the Senate to approve the House bill to send it to the President, so be it.

As for the Republicans saying that this kind of thing will result in no cooperation on anything in the future, what is supposed to be new in that statement? Those guys will go down in history as the only senators in history to have gone for as much as four years without doing anything and still getting paid. Put them on pay for work and they will all be down at Burger King flipping hamburgers or frying potatoes. This is really as much as most of them can really handle anyway.

Posted by: ronjeske | March 15, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

You back away exactly when you should make clearer for readers:

"This is all about plausible deniability for House members who don't want to vote for the Senate bill, although I doubt many voters will find the denials plausible."

I am a voter and I find this process understandable given Republican obstruction. What evidence do you have for saying "voters will find the denials plausible"? None because you still don't understand the archaic rules and THE PROCESS RULES are not important.

America needs to have health care reform and we need it now. The legislation has already PASSED both chambers! What we are talking about here is 100% archaic process rules, making sausage. But, you an "objective" reporter, can't understand and present the political/policy issue correctly.

Posted by: walden1 | March 15, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

grclarkdc1........

hahahahahahahahahaha....hahahaha.... you are truly a Patriot. Name calling, and elitism, just like a good Democrat.

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I just don't understand how the Democrats could go through all this work to get a health care reform and than risky a very uncertain result of a court challenge to the constitutionality of this process.

I can't believe they would do that. They need to pass the bill to get health care over and pivot to jobs. By using this uncertain process, they keep health care and a very ugly process front and center for the American people to review.

This seems like a disaster to me.

Posted by: lancediverson | March 15, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

This quote is not from the bible, but was first used by Louis Blanc in 1840 and later popularized by Karl Marx to promote his political views.
Do your research guys.

Posted by: boloboffin1 | March 15, 2010 2:22 PM
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Gee, I thought that was Acts 4:34-35. That's Marxism? The early Christians were Marxists? Who knew?

Thanks boloboffin1 for pointing out something that so few self-described "Christians" have any knowledge of; one would think that any serious Christian would want to know more about their chosen religion than what is propagated in their modern churches. And the response to your post by JakeD2 | March 15, 2010 2:34 PM
"boloboffin1:
The U.S. is not a theocracy (nice try though ; )"
seems spiteful rather than informative in that it doesn't in any way address what you wrote. Or maybe I'm just too stupid to understand complex issues and viewpoints (doubtful, but I suppose it's possible... perhaps in another life?).

Posted by: xplorer59 | March 15, 2010 3:35 PM

Posted by: Dragonwulf | March 15, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

There are so many constitutional challenges coming down the pike that Pelosi will long gone before this mess of a bill can be adjudicated. Pelosi has not respect for our constitution therefore she is truly un-American.

She may ignore the people, but the people will never ignore her, ever. She will go down in history with the likes of Tokyo Rose.

Posted by: thehamptons1 | March 15, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

This is UNCONSTITUIONAL. Read the Constitution. It is not permissable to create a law in this manner. This thug dictatorship is willing to DO ANYTHING to get what it wants... they look like and act like what we were always taught we should most fear... a government not of and by the people, but a government seized with its' own power and designs that is able to subvert the will of the citizens who put them in office. Throw these renegades out!!

Posted by: ww1123 | March 15, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Without taking a political position on the efficacy of the actual legislation, is it not clear to everyone that whatever the history of reconciliation or the propriety of its use to pass ANY legislation, that THIS use of what seems to "reconciliation on steroids" (since the House will actually attempt to not explicitly vote on the Senate bill) is an abuse of the process? In any event, I believe constitutionally the President will actually have to sign the Senate bill once its passed by the House INTO LAW, making it the law of the land. Then, and only then can it be "reconciled." Now I ask, is it no antithetical to the American system of government to have a sitting President sign INTO LAW a bill on which people voted AGAINST their own "real" votes, let alone those of their constituents (and by the way, would mean the Nebraska deal et al, would be LAW, albeit for a brief time? C'mon guys, say what you want about obstructionism and the political process; Pelosi and Obama talk about the "majority vote" - well, the Senate as a supermajority body has worked fine for 230+ years. For that matter, a SUPER majority of Americans don't want this bill. Seems to me that when you reach a point in the process (or in life) where something becomes this difficult, you do something else, or do it another way.

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how many times the words: "down our throats" are used in these posts. Fox news must be proud.

Posted by: jlm062002 | March 15, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Nancy and the Dems have spent MONTHS talking to themselves! Surely not listening to the bulk of the American people much less the Republicans.

Translation of her so-called strategy: "What bribe can we offer you Mr. Liberal Congressman to buy your vote?"

Bottom line is this entitlement fiasco will drive us into debt death.

Posted by: NeoConVeteran | March 15, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

This approach is unconstitutional. The constitution states explicitly the house and senate must vote on the identical bill with the same language & it must pass before the president can sign it into law. The framers anticipated this end-run. They have to vote & on the record. Period.

This will be one more issue for the courts to adjudicate along with the mandate. They may pass this thing, but then it will unravel in the courts piece by piece.

Posted by: aicohn | March 15, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

pelosi is making all kinds of deals to get yes votes, but she knows obama said when it gets back to the senate the deals will be taken out, so she is knowingly lying to the dems for their vote, also, mass. has this healthcare already, and their premiums have gone skyhigh, so have taxes, and the wait to see a dr. is 60 days. is this what will happen to the rest of us? and how about the rationing? they have it also. the still dont have a bill written, just a blueprint, so how are they saying yes to it without reading it first? as usual, they dont care about us enough to even read the bill. its not even about healthcare anymore, its all about the ego of pelosi and obama, win at any cost, and any yes vote for this will be a no vote in nov. sometimes its better not to do anything. they say they will fix it later and work out the details, they said that about ss, medicare, medicaid, and it was never fixed. this will ruin our country. it needs to be stopped.

Posted by: unicornsbypauline | March 15, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"""greatgran1 more facist propaganda The only Boldface liar is YOU. Lets seperate fact from fiction, The bill will not raise the deficit and so what if it did?"""

We don't want or need to spend more that we don't have right now.

"""The bottom line is Right vs Privilege. If you find someone bleeding on the sidewalk and you are a Doctor you must care for them right?"""

Wrong, there is no law anywhere I know of that requires anyone including doctors to provide any kind of care including calling for help. While there is the risk of a doctor being sued if they don't help, there is no law to do so outside of a hospital or other helth facility.

"""that is healthcare. Open your eyes or change your lenses it is a right. Otherwise if the Doctor does not CARE for the victim the doctor goes to prison."""

Only if the victim is in some kind of a health care facility. In other words if a person has an emergency and gets to a hospital or doctors office or even ambulance, they must be treated. If they are on the street anyone, including doctors, could legally (maybe not morally) walk away.

"""If it were a privilege he could ignore the victim and wait until his check clears. Opps that is how it works now!!"""

Wrong again at least partway. If the person makes it to health facility of any kind they must be treated to the best possible available in the facility.

Posted by: Android3 | March 15, 2010 3:32 PM

Posted by: rchayes | March 15, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

jlm062002.....

I know that is hard for some folks to imagine, but there are a lot of people in this country who think for themselves without listening to Fox, MSNBC, or the media in general. Could it be possible that some people feel that Congress is forcing this Bill upon them? Of course it is. Remember that next time you are mindlessly listening to Rachel Madow, Keith Olberman, or even this joker Ezra.

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"Nancy and the Dems have spent MONTHS talking to themselves! Surely not listening to the bulk of the American people much less the Republicans."
Posted by: NeoConVeteran | March 15, 2010 3:59 PM
-------------------------
As also part of "the bulk" of the American people, I say: "pass the bill."

Posted by: jlm062002 | March 15, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Ezra, there you go again posting the Democrats as the heroes of this debate, stop carrying the water for these people, stop the lies and deceptions, the American people don't want this monstrosity, there are 300 million people in this country and about 30 million do not have insurance which means that 270 million people will be ignored because the Democrats want this reform, the last time I checked I was living in the USA not Russia or China, or for that matter Cuba, if all these politician want to ram this bill through? then let them and we will see what will happen in November.

KILL THE BILL

Posted by: jhartnack | March 15, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

It amazes me how arrogant this woman is. She would never have survived the real world

Posted by: curtbynum | March 15, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi may be a monumental figure, but passing a health care budget without bipartisonship is going to land her into impeachement territory. While, people do not know what the bill contains, some of the people express that the health care portion is a good one, but adding pork to so many people because of buying votes from Sen Carey of MA, Sen Dodd of RI and Nebraska senator coupled with Louisiana and Florida makes others pay higher is not a way to do things and American is being broken up by the idiocity of Nancy Pelosi. She needs to go back to CA and serve a life sentence for such a break up of Democratic Nation - The United States into United States of Liberal Democrats (USLD), United States of Conservative Democrats (USCD)and United States of Republicans (USR, leaving the independents and moderates into cold area. This means that the country needs to be divided into four sections and all people start moving towards areas where they belong. This is a crime against the Nation and should be treated as enemy combatant.

Posted by: dr_vaman | March 15, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as a political leader, is a super star.

In fact, she stands among the greatest of leaders ever of the United States House of Representatives.

To my thinking, THE most gifted and magnificent ever.

Also, she is a lady of grand elegance and, pardon my saying so, balls of steel.

I salute her and await her unparalleled health reform accomplishment.

Hip Hip....

Posted by: project2 | March 15, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

It's kind of funny to see Pelosi put people like Boehner and McConnell in their place. The Republicans are looking more and more like a bunch of panicked kittens.

One almost feels sorry for the Republicans and the Blue Dog Democrats who are so frightened that health care will pass that they are willing to fritter away every last shred of respectability they might have had left just to desperately prevent passage.

Those who vote against health care will have a lot of explaining to do in November. I wonder whether one or two Republicans may not at the last minute decide that they want to go down in the history books as having stood for something other than weakness and injustice and vote for health care reform after all.

Posted by: opinionpieces
***************
If the bill were such a good thing, it would easily have been passed by a supermajority, across party lines. I must assume you haven't actually READ any of the bills. Even if you had, you would still not know what is in the final bill, because none of us do. As Pelosi says, you have to vote on the bill before you find out what's in it. What a sham of a legislative system. Shouldn't we all at least be given the courtesy, as citizens, of knowing what we're buying when the Government decrees that we SHALL buy it?

Posted by: SavingGrace | March 15, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

jlm062002

Bulk of American's support this?!?!?! From a recent Rasmussen Poll:

The most recent health care polling shows that 43% favor the President’s health care plan while 53% are opposed. Democrats continue to overwhelmingly support the plan, while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either party strongly oppose it. Opposition continues to stem in part from unchanging views that the plan will drive up the cost and worsen the quality of health care in America. Fifty-seven percent (57%) of voters also believe the health care reform plan now working its way through Congress will hurt the U.S. economy.

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

>Can someone comment on the constitutionality of this "deeming" concept? This seems a rather risky route if there is any questions of whether this will survive court challenge.<

This will NOT survive a court challenge. While it's true the house can pass its own rules, under article I,section 7 of the US Constitution the identical bill shall have been voted upon before it can be passed into law. The rules of the house can not short-circuit the US constitution.

It will take about 15 minutes to get this thrown out in court, though the appeals could take years.

Posted by: aicohn | March 15, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Did not anyone catch the statement ..."Pelosi believes, her caucus will see that this is "the most important bill most of us will ever pass," that it is legislation on par "with Social Security and Medicare."

Let's see, Social Security & Medicare, the government ran those programs so well they going broke. Why would this bill be any different? It is really simple, if you want something prohibitively expensive, put the government in charge of it. We simply cannot afford this bill. As with the other government programs, the cost will be out of control.

Response to the post by zeppelin003:

"Especially when you consider the diversity of opinion and ideology of the current Democrat party. We really only have one national party in this country, living under constant assault from an increasingly hostile, embittered right-wing peanut gallery of idiots from flyover country."

Posted by: zeppelin003

Let's see, flyover country, typically defined refer to the regions of the country passed over during inter-coastal flights – e.g., flights between the nation's two largest cities, New York City and Los Angeles, isn't that where the majority of voters live?

Posted by: Bigboyd | March 15, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Where will detractors be if it works? Likely still complaining that it was a bad bill or kicking and screaming about change being bad. If they scrapped this bill, the next one would be equally blasted b/c change will still be scary to many.

Remember, the US is #1 in the world in a flawed sense of nationalistic pride. That's about it. We're no higher than in the teens in education, health care outcomes, current account (import vs exports), and most things that we seem to think we lead in... how about obesity, personal debt, and a sense of entitlement... now we're in our sweet spot. Let's keep dodging change b/c it's scary and Fox News says we're already on top.

We have the potential to lead in so many areas, but our inability to adapt will leave us looking like the many bloated companies that now lie in ruins.

Posted by: GoHoos2002 | March 15, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I am sick of republicans ,I will never vote for them again .
Don't they learn any thing from housing crisis ? like housing cost in the past ,health care cost is out of control .the next crisis will be health care crisis if health care reform failed ,millions of people may die .
please pass health care reform NOW.

Posted by: reformss | March 15, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I, and most Americans, agree that reform in healthcare is necessary. However, I
and most Americans also feel that the current bill is not the answer. First of all, no one knows what is actually in this bill or what it will cost. Secondly, while we would have to start paying for the revisions now, coverage wouldn't start for four years. That's why ten years of payments MAY cover six years of coverage.
Since normal legislative meassures can't provide the votes to adopt this program, the Democrats are using bribery, threats and evasion to pass the bill at any cost.
At any cost to us, the taxpayers, not costs
to them in office. The bill is so GOOD that
they have exempted themselves and all government workers from having to comply with it. That is what I don't understand.
How so many people are so ignorant of the
contents of this bill and its consequences and yet can't wait to get it enacted. Those who think this will solve all of their problems and be cost free will have a big surprise coming when they are forced to spend 6 to 8 thousand dollars a year on coverage to pay for those who already get free public medical
service through Medicare, Medicaid, Child
Medical Care and emergency room treatment for the indigent. We taxpayers are now paying for the indigent when they are sick, with this bill we will be paying for their healthcare when thy are healthy. Those of us who worked for a living and saved our money and invested in our futures, with this bill, are now asked to
give that money out to those who were less
interested in investing in their health and future. Enough is enough! No more
socialist welfare!!!

Posted by: depoulins | March 15, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi's preference and the unfolding process to unilaterally pass legislation most people don't want is enough to make one nauseous. I hope the lemming mentality collapses in the Democrat caucus and this awful bill is stopped in its tracks. So much for Obama's "up or down vote" I suppose, were the Speaker to get her way. If this doesn't chase them from leadership, what does?

Posted by: ecrutle | March 15, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Yes! Thanks, Mrs Pelosi. Thank God that finally ALL americans will have full equal coverage. It's about time the goverment started to care for us after all we've done for them. I am happy I won't have to see my parents or children become sick anymore or die of cancer. Next I think we should legislate world peace. All you have to do is imagine hard enough and all of your dreams will come true. If they don't, you are not trying hard enough. Just believe! Come on everyone do it for the childeren!

Posted by: Hopeisallyouneed | March 15, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Gee Whiz Zeppelin, I'm a member of "fly over" country and I really cannot improve upon your verbiage if I were intending to phrase things from an IRONIC (or moronic,take your pick)viewpoint to make fun of the ultra-liberal position favored by substantially less than half the population.

Posted by: jnsphorn | March 15, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

reformss....

Housing crisis? Shouldn't people who entered into silly loans, or those who purchased houses they couldn't afford at inflated prices take responsibility for that? Nah, I who didn't buy a house I couldn't afford should be on the hook for that. Heaven forbid anyone take responsibility for their own mistake.

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I don't get it why anyone would think that the Republicans look desperate. The Democrats hold huge majorities in both chambers of Congress and the White House to boot. And yet they STILL can't get the top of their legislative priorities onto the president's desk!

With virtually no power at all (except for the power of persuasion) the opponents of nationalizing the healthcare industry have quite possibly carried the day.

No, it's the Democratic leadership that looks desperate. Look at the Rube Goldberg bill that they have written? Is there any better example of special interests carrying the day than that?

Who stands to benefit from this nationalization of one fifth of the American economy? Insurance companies and trial lawyers and -- you guessed it -- the fat cat politicians in Washington. Not the average American, who for the most part will simply have an unfunded mandate to purchase health insurance that in many cases is not wanted.

Posted by: bsrasmus | March 15, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi and Obama are socialists who deem it appropriate to steel from those who earn a living to bribe those who don't work so that they will vote democrat.

In my view, they're lower than pond scum.

Posted by: tdrum2u | March 15, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Thank god, hmmm wait I don't believe in that idiocy, I moved out of the USSA 10+ years ago.

With every administration the American sheeple give away or have taken away more freedoms.
Republicrats or Demicans in power make no difference.
The United Socialist States of America comes closer to being a reality everyday.

Too bad the people in power sold out to the weapons, banking, insurance, pharmaceutical, etc industries and the average person is now too poor to leave.

Jefferson and Eisenhower warned about what has happened to the US.

Social Insecurity and Mediscare are just another way to tax and enslave the people.
Don't believe me? Ask any congressman if they are taxes or insurance programs or simply read the US code).

Universal healthcare is just another step down the slippery slope to a totally socialist country and is NOT the answer to the current health care problem in the US.
What needs to be done is to overhaul the entire health care industry.

If you choose to overeat and not exercise and you get diabetes, heart disease or another disease caused by your actions YOU should be responsible NOT everyone else.

The FDA should be changed from a political, AMA and drug company controlled agency to what it was when it was founded.

In the 1970's the AMA pronounced that nutrition was not important and had little or no effect on a person's health.

Their current focus on surgery and/or pop a pill is equally wrong.
Treating a symptom with drugs that have more bad side effects than efficacy does not make sense.
EX. The vast majority of oncologists, when asked, said they would not take chemotherapy and radiation treatments if they got cancer, BUT those are exactly the tools they use to treat their patients.

Have blocked arteries? Read about Nattokinase, a natural anti thrombolytic, discovered in 1989 at the University of Chicago, which cleans them without surgery or the nasty side effects of Plavix or other prescription drugs, and costs pennies per day but can't be patented so drug companies don't market the product.

People in the US need to take responsibility for their own actions and the consequences.

The government is NOT there to care for you. It's not supermom.

Perhaps the best suggestion I have heard recently is simple. Vote them ALL out.

Any elected official who is currently in power should be voted out next time they are up for election.
The first new law passed should be that elected officials do NOT get to keep any contributions to their election campaigns when they leave office.
Second: Congress (both houses) get NO retirement or health benefits after leaving office.

Good luck to all of you in the USSA.
Some of the best people in the world held captive by one of the worst governments in the world.

Posted by: The-Curmudgeon | March 15, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

It will be a true blessing when this woman from san fran is far away from any power and away from doing more damage to America then she has already done.Im still waiting for the queen to provide proof that the CIA lied to her.They have NO shame.Her and harry are the most radical liberal ideologues ever to be in power at the same time.Cmon November.

Posted by: votingrevolution | March 15, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I didn't know that this was the place for the Tea Party Movement. All hail, the new president of the movement, The Grand Wizard and his chairmen and chairwomen of the board. The GOP. Thank Satan for their services in Hell.

Posted by: danielburke3 | March 15, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Initially, I thought this procedure would create political problems for Democrats, but after reading the comments, I know that is not true. The talking point is going to be rammed the bill through and unconstitutional no matter what procedure is adopted. The deeming stuff is probably unusual, but not unprecedented but it won't be worth the time to go beyond the talking point. It would be a strange argument to make: the Senate bill was so bad, he couldn't vote for it to be made law, but all my Republican friends in Congress voted to keep the Senate language intact and if I were in Congress, I would have voted the same way.

Posted by: windshouter | March 15, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

The Democratic party has been infantilizing its constituents since the beginning of time. The New Deal, affirmtive action, medicare, medicaid, the list goes on. What appears free (and actually is to the 35% of Americans who have no tax liability whatsoever) will be overconsumed. A new entitlement system of low-cost, low-deductible health insurance provided by the government (or with the government's proverbial "foot on the scale") is just another brick in the wall. When the EPA starts regulating by fiat what we exhale, it will truly be all over.

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

trolls are having apoplexy!

Posted by: jkaren | March 15, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

To zeppelin003:
Careful, thought good folks in "flyover country" feed you, clothes you, probably pay more taxes than you do, and will fight to give you the freedom to continue to mouth your ugly hate of conservatism. Go look up "kryslnacht" and match it to the "kick down the doors" statement made by Sen.P. Last I looked she was supposed to represent ALL of us, not just California...

Posted by: SCH03 | March 15, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

"Passing" bills without even voting on them is a VERY dangerous precedent - and grossly unconstitutional.

As soon as that happens, you can consider the US Government as being illegitimate.

Posted by: pgr88 | March 15, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Re Dragonwulf: The quote from Acts4 is: "(34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need" (King James' version). Are use saying that Blanc's paraphrase (quoted by Marx, which is why it is so well known) was wrong? How?

Re ww1123: "UNCONSTITUIONAL[sic]." Please explain exactly what part of the "constituion" is being violated.

Posted by: JPMinNC | March 15, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

PGR88 - 100% agree. Don't you think its ironic that the Pelosi's and Reid's say its not a government takeover, then in the same breath equate the passage of this bill with Social Security and Medicare? If its truly reform in the framework of the private health market like they claim, why the analogies to the very programs which are ruining people's perception of freedom and sending the US to the Chinese to fund these monstrocities?

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

jkaren: "trolls are having apoplexy!"

Yahoo! It's the great right-wing "Health Care Freak-Out"! (See Jonathan Chait)

Posted by: leoklein | March 15, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Can't expect much from Polosi. Look at California, it is a financial mess. They have ridiculous taxes, entitlement programs, and permanently lean left. Can't wait for the whole country to resemble California (sarcasm).

Posted by: mestizo888 | March 15, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Shall I explain the unconsitutionality of "deeming" a piece of legislation passed, though it is not going to be explicity voted on by both legislative branches, signed into law, and then changed ex post facto? STOP quoting the Bible, since as a Democrat you have long forsaken that document. Instead read the very Constitution you live under. Its right there in the text.

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

jhr1:"THE THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THESE ARE MARXISTS. "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED". PLEASE PEOPLE, DO ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO DO TO STOP THIS AMERICAN TRAGEDY."

My in-laws, who are very conservative, have five adult children. One of their children has a son with autism. My in-laws have given this son close to $100,000 to pay medical costs/care. The other siblings, aside from my wife, are as conservative as their parents, yet all fully support the help their parents are giving their brother. Evidently, even conservative families tend to be Marxists in helping family members.

It's an American Tragedy that right-wingers who see America as a Christian nation don't view their fellow Americans as brothers and sisters, all worthy of the right to decent, affordable health care. If "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED" is good enough for my conservative in-laws, it's good enough for all Americans. Social Justice is a core Christian value, no matter how Glenn Beck tries to make it a pejorative.

Posted by: tttvance | March 15, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi must think the American people are dumb, and that her Democrat colleagues in the House are even dumber. Even if a voter would not alone figure out the shenanigan, the Republicans will make sure they explain it in November, savoring the juicy opportunity for ridiculing the Democratic candidates who fell for it.

Posted by: suegbic1 | March 15, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

We've spent over a trillion dollars and thousands of lives the past 7 years avenging 9/11. With an estimated 45,000 uninsured Americans dying each year because of the untaken x-ray, mammogram,
blood trest, etc., around 300,000 uninsured Americans have died over these past 7 years. This is modern day America, not the draconian early 1800's of Tiny Tim and Ebenezer Scrooge. Over 400,000 uninsured Americans will die over the next decade without health care reform. How much would we pay to bring back our fallen heroes, rather than just avenge them? How many trillions are those 400,000 uninsured lives worth?

Posted by: MikeinMinnesota | March 15, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

What happens when our elected officials no longer represent the people that elected them? What happens when they do not listen to their constituents? Is this that much different than having laws passed without representation? Do the people no longer have a say in their Government? Has a line been crossed when Government dictates to the people what is good for them and what isn't while ridiculing them and telling them that their town hall meetings, rallies and gatherings are inconsequential? A Government of the people, for the people. We as Americans need to stop, take a deep breath and decide if our current government, of both parties, is doing what it is supposed to be doing, if not, we need to act, recall our elected officials, put America back to where it is supposed to be.

Posted by: Benevolus1 | March 15, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Mike - No one doubts the necessity of providing a system whereby everyone can access a doctor or treatment for basic things as the common cold, let alone other more serious diseases. The questions are: who is in a better position to deliver that, the government or a better private health care system? at what cost? in what form? who's paying for it? Send me the legislation and explain how these questions are answered.

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Everyone that says "this bill needs to be reworked", or "we can get a better bill", or "we want reform but we should start from scratch" are really saying that they are happy with the status quo and that health insurance is perfect the way it is.

This is because anyone with half a brain knows that if this bill doesn't pass it will be decades before this problem is addressed in a meaningfull way. Furthermore, if the Republicans regain control of congress the health insurance industry will get more laws passed in their favor. This will happen as long as the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries continue to contribute big money to congressional campaigns.

So Democrats, please please get your act together and pass this legislation now.

Posted by: bwilly321 | March 15, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh, you poor naive commenters who sound like teenagers gushing over some movie star! Oh, Nancy! Thank you, Nancy! You're the best, Nancy! Think about this: If Nancy does manage to pass this so-called healthcare reform, then lawyers in at least 29 states will immediately bring changes against her for trying to destroy the country, for trying to destroy the economy, etc., etc. (and on and on and on). I can hardly wait to see Nancy trying to figure out how to lie under oath! To all of you commenters who think this is a wonderful idea, let me say this: There are millions and millions of us who have no problem with our current healthcare, and we're not interested in being taxed to death to pay for yours! Pay for you own!!

Posted by: georges2 | March 15, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Ah, the naivete of the reformists! There has been no greater irony than to watch the Obama Administration literally bribe the medical device industry and the drug companies and the AMA (with their fake white coats in the WH press conferences) into swallowing this bill. The straw man argument that Republicans are in the pocket of the insurance companies and that they don't want reform is a construct of Nancy and the Dems. And when you make an accusation like that, come prepared with the facts. If this bill was so bad for insurance companies and the Republicans are protecting them, why are there stock prices at all-time highs?

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

STUPID AMERICANS- - I'm 4 HCR but this bill will never survive legal test. Before slamming right as obstructionist, educate yourself - read Federalist 10, founding fathers designed constitution for just these circumstances, factions and tyranny of the majority.

Posted by: DCMess | March 15, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

We will see how many "idiots in flyover country" there are in the next two elections. As for the procedures that Pelosi uses to pass a health care bill - if they do so successfully, I see no reason why these same bills can't be rejected by a republican congress using the same procedures. Fair is fair. It will, however, have to wait for a republican president as Pres Obama would veto a rejection of his favorite socialist ideas. But it will come as it always does.

Posted by: awunsch | March 15, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

DCMess 100% correct. The 2010 elections will be going on before this bill emerges out of the courts. And ironically, the bill will be on life support by then, in need of a government provided doctor!

Posted by: lmorizio | March 15, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

"""jhr1:"THE THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THESE ARE MARXISTS. "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED". PLEASE PEOPLE, DO ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO DO TO STOP THIS AMERICAN TRAGEDY."

My in-laws, who are very conservative, have five adult children. One of their children has a son with autism. My in-laws have given this son close to $100,000 to pay medical costs/care. The other siblings, aside from my wife, are as conservative as their parents, yet all fully support the help their parents are giving their brother. Evidently, even conservative families tend to be Marxists in helping family members.

It's an American Tragedy that right-wingers who see America as a Christian nation don't view their fellow Americans as brothers and sisters, all worthy of the right to decent, affordable health care. If "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED" is good enough for my conservative in-laws, it's good enough for all Americans. Social Justice is a core Christian value, no matter how Glenn Beck tries to make it a pejorative.

Posted by: tttvance | March 15, 2010 4:45 PM"""

A long way around to say that parents decided to use their own money and of their own free will decided to help a son. This has been going on between family members for who knows how long. It is NOT the government taking from someone by force of law to force some person or company to give it to someone else

Posted by: rchayes | March 15, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

" And then, Pelosi believes, her caucus will see that this is "the most important bill most of us will ever pass," that it is legislation on par "with Social Security and Medicare."

Please, only the most egotistical politicians such as Obama and Pelosi, as well as, perhaps some of their naive, most partisan supporters, will believe such nonsense. Social Security and Medicare were truly monumental achievements. The Obama/Reid/Pelosi health care bill would not remotely approach their importance.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | March 15, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Semantics. A large majority want health care reform. A majority DO NOT want the bill that is currently on the table. Only someone who sloppily equates "reform" with Obamacare sees any contradiction here.

And a President who says the only alternative is between his plan and no change at all is a damned liar insulting our intelligence.

And any major social change requires overwhelming public support. How long will it be before Republicans repeal this program in which they had no hand and therefore no moral obligation to support? And, if they cannot officially repeal it, rest assured, they will surely defund it at the very first opportunity.

Posted by: CincinnatiRIck | March 15, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

The "let's just start over" crowd is completely naive or disingenuous or both. The GOP killed health care reform in the 90s. They didn't even try to get it done either before or since when they were setting the agenda. Obviously if the GOP wanted health care reform, the party would have shown some effort to make it happen during the past, say, 30 years.

If this bill dies, the discussion is over until the next DEMOCRAT president pushes again. The GOP simply does not care about anyone who, for whatever reason, cannot achieve middle class on their own. In this case, "not caring" means letting them die from lack of access to health care, preventative medicine, etc. The victims include recent immigrants, the uneducated, the mentally ill, the millions of working poor and the generally unfortunate.

The Democrats, on the other hand, are trying to get through a bill that will offer some element of basic human compassion for many of these unfortunates. Sadly, those who say the effort to provide basic health care to all is "unAmerican" are right. But so was freeing the slaves, the civil rights push of the 60s, allowing women to vote, etc. etc. We're still a somewhat uncivilized country. Changes comes hard to some of us...but it is coming, like it or not all you old school folks stuck in your ways.

The ultimate hypocrisy is the fact that the Republicans, the self-styled "god fearing" party, are the ones who say no to health care reform -- "not with my money". If Jesus were alive today, what side of this fight would he be on? Certainly, he would be on the side of compassion and generosity. Shame on all you hypocrites. Mean people suck.

Posted by: cantwait2008 | March 15, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

“…The elitist minority in NY, SF, LA, DC, Miami and Chicago are so out-of-touch with the real people of America that it would be funny if it were not so tragic…”
Posted by: Luke-John | March 15, 2010 3:01 PM

You guys always try to make an issue out of this, but…have you bothered to add up the population of those “elitist” places? How many Americans live on the Eastern and Western Seaboards? And those one or two hundred million people aren’t “real” enough for YOU?

Who the hell are you to claim to be an arbiter of what constitutes a “real” American? And to think you speak for anyone?

Posted by: Ichristian | March 15, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

I am not sure any of this gimmickry matters. Once the Dems prove they can deliver anything voters skepticism will melt. Dems should do well in November. The only problems are hypothethical. That opens the door for really cleaning up the government.

Posted by: Reesh | March 15, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse

We are watching the final countdown of the implosion of the Democratic party as the Obamacare stench becomes more and more disgusting.

The stench of the lies, manipulation, intimidation, coercion, bribery, corruption, and backroom deals to force us to swallow the Obamacare SCAM -- which would destroy our health care, our economy, our freedoms and our country -- has forever tainted the Democratic Party and demonstrate the degree of corruption, bribery and fraud we can expect from Obama and his comrades as they continue to enslave us through their Marxist schemes.

More and more Americans understand there's no longer a Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has been replaced by the Progressive (Marxist) party, controlled by U.S. enemies like George Soros and bent on destroying America using the tactics of their Marxist mentor Saul Alinsky.

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 15, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

My gosh. The House is doing finishing touches on the modest health care bills that passed in December and commenters are screaming about the fall of the Republic. I realize that the prophet Jeremiah used back-to-before-Creation imagery for crises that were short of the end of the world, but Swiss-style health legislation isn't even a crisis.

Posted by: DaveoftheCoonties | March 15, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Klein,
Your recent article on what "reconcilition" actually entails was very illuminating. The majority of the media gave a very different impression of reconciliation and the health care bill. Similarly your current article on the nuances of deem and pass is also very educational. I wish more of the media deliver such quality as opposed to the usual superficial coverage of any issue.

Keep up the good work.

Posted by: krishnamurthi | March 15, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

What undemocratic BS. The Consitution and the American people are abut to raped and sodomized by Pelosi, Obama and the other Democrat crooks. Does no one see the evil in this? This is fascism. I fear for our country. Vote them out.

Posted by: DaMan2 | March 15, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

The "I fear for my country" crowd makes me laugh. Where were you when we were starting a war that never needed to happen? A war that did more to mortgage our futures than anything that Obama will ever do. You were fearing then too. You were believing GWB's hype in 2004 that the world would come to an end if he were not re-elected. Hmmmmm.

I will say it's so much nicer to have an intelligent President who does not act on emotion and bravado.

Fear for our country all you want. Your country will be fine. If it could survive 8 years of Bush, anything is possible.

Posted by: cantwait2008 | March 15, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

What a disaster.

We're giving up on an opportunity to cut costs for 90% of Americans, and for what? A subsidization of health care plans for 10% of us?

We're being sold short.

Posted by: postfan1 | March 15, 2010 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi should hide behind closed doors, this isn't even a good monopoly game. She admits that the only important thing is passing the bill, because no one knows what is in it. Meaning the Democrats will fix it to suit ourselves once it flies!

For those who wish to defend the Democrats, it appears you're O.K. with a bill you've never seen, don't know the horrendous cost and don't have a clue how Americans will pay for this bill.

But, remember there are always consequences when corruption is running "amuck" and if it passes there will be pain and suffering for our Nation and American citizens.

Basically, our Nation is in the hands of about 20 Democrats plus one and I pray that they will do what is right for their children and future generations.

Not everyone is for sale and my bet is there are enough Democrats who know in their heart of hearts that his is wrong, totally wrong for our Nation. They'll stand toe to toe with Obama, Pelosi, Reid and just say "no."

Those few Democrats can save our Nation from the corrupt - if anyone thinks this Healthcare Reform isn't about spreading the wealth, they're wrong.

May God Bless Our Nation and Those 20 Democrats

Posted by: annie21 | March 15, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

"You guys always try to make an issue out of this, but…have you bothered to add up the population of those “elitist” places? How many Americans live on the Eastern and Western Seaboards? And those one or two hundred million people aren’t “real” enough for YOU?"

If half the population lives in those "great centers of civilization" (NOT!) and say 42% are Democrats with the rest Republican or independent.

That 42% even if all are crazy liberal like the rich cocktail-party self-proclaimed "intelligensia" represents just 21% of the overall population. I know for a fact that quite a few Democrats are actually quite nice, sane people many of whom are quite horrified by the things been done in their name by queen Nancy and jester Harry.

And I live in California so I'm surrounded by a higher percentage of the crazier variety of Democrats than most.

The numbers above are probably more generous toward the Democrat crazies than the real situation but it illustrates my point.

The fact remains that poll after poll - even those that tend to favor the liberal cause - show that a majority of Americans REJECT what is being proposed. Last I looked a minority over-ruling the wishes of the majority counted for minority rule.

Posted by: Luke-John | March 15, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

MikeinMinnesota says that "With an estimated 45,000 uninsured Americans dying each year because of the un-taken x-ray, mammogram, blood test, etc..." would mean that he is okay with letting another 180,000 people die before the benefits kick in. Which means that he, and the rest of the democrats supporting this bill are okay with letting another 180,000 people die as long as they can get this health care bill passed. Who says liberals are compassionate? Also, FYI medicare denies more claims each year than the health insurance industry, is this really the health care program we want to replicate?

Posted by: Bigboyd | March 15, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Shades of Hugo Chavez -

Posted by: dixiecup1 | March 15, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi is a historical figure already, being the first woman Speaker of the House, but if she's able to get 216 Democrats to all march in the same direction and vote for this bill, this is a monumental accomplishment.
////////////////////////////////////////
Yeah, up there with the Communist Revolution in 1917.

Especially when you consider the diversity of opinion and ideology of the current Democrat party.
////////////////////////////////////////
Leftist is just Leftist, only 5 of them have a conscience when it comes to the unborn.

We really only have one national party in this country, living under constant assault from an increasingly hostile, embittered right-wing peanut gallery of idiots from flyover country
//////////////////////////////////////////
You have on "Nationalist" party in this country, really "National Socialist" or "Nazi" party, and it's the Leftist Democratcs.

This will all change in November.

Posted by: RealTexan1 | March 15, 2010 6:55 PM | Report abuse

If this health care bill is SO GOOD, why is all of congress, O'Bama, and all federal employees exempt? With the Federal Government being the largest single employer, approx 2,000,000 employees (excluding the USPS), wouldn't it make sense to include them in this system to help drive down costs?

Posted by: Bigboyd | March 15, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

"We won that fight,..." Is this sort of like "mission accomplished?" When will we go after this harridan? She is a totally worthless disgrace.

Posted by: IQ168 | March 15, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

The Democrats can pass the bill, put this debate behind them, and go into the elections with a history-making legislative achievement. Or they can let the bill fail this week and try to let it slip from their agenda. If they don't pass the bill this week, Americans fighting for reform will redouble their efforts. With every passing day, we will be louder and push harder for them to pass the bill. We will make sure that the issue does not go away and either health care becomes law, or the Democrats get kicked out of congress in November. We are not going to let this opportunity go, not this time. It's their choice. Pass the bill and triumph, or fail to pass it and be defeated.

Posted by: opinionpieces | March 15, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

This is a damn shame!

Why should anyone supposedly representing the majority who elected her need a STRATEGY?

If she wasn't serving those who elected her, Pelosi wouldn't need any sneaky strategy tactics trying to slide in something that the majority of voters DON'T want.

Such as how the overwhelming majority DOESN'T want taxpayers to be forced to foot the bill for "medically unnecessary" abortions, as Pelosi and Obama, et al are trying to pull on us.

Same goes with how those same TRAITORS are representing the interests of FOREIGN NATIONALS HERE ILLEGALLY, by trying to slide in amnesty for them, instead of heeding the wishes of the overwhelming majority of voters OPPOSED to amnesty.

See, for example:
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/should-pres-obama-lindsay-graham-and-all-other-traitors-in-congress-serving-foreign-nationals-here/question-898201/?newhappenings=1

Posted by: tncdel | March 15, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Semantics. A large majority want health care reform. A majority DO NOT want the bill that is currently on the table. Only someone who sloppily equates "reform" with Obamacare sees any contradiction here.

And a President who says the only alternative is between his plan and no change at all is a damned liar insulting our intelligence. It is only a partisan political imperative that this particular bill be passed,

Moreover, any major social policy change requires overwhelming public support and bipartisan cooperation. How long will it be before Republicans repeal this program in which they had no hand and therefore no moral obligation to support? And, if they cannot officially repeal it, rest assured, they will surely defund it at the very first opportunity.

Posted by: CincinnatiRIck | March 15, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

EDITED:

This is a damn shame!

Why should anyone supposedly representing the majority who elected her need a STRATEGY?

If she was serving those who elected her, Pelosi wouldn't need any sneaky strategy tactics trying to slide in something that the majority of voters DON'T want.

Such as how the overwhelming majority DOESN'T want taxpayers to be forced to foot the bill for "medically unnecessary" abortions, as Pelosi and Obama, et al are trying to pull on us.

Same goes with how those same TRAITORS are representing the interests of FOREIGN NATIONALS HERE ILLEGALLY, by trying to slide in amnesty for them, instead of heeding the wishes of the overwhelming majority of voters OPPOSED to amnesty.

See, for example:
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/should-pres-obama-lindsay-graham-and-all-other-traitors-in-congress-serving-foreign-nationals-here/question-898201/?newhappenings=1

Posted by: tncdel | March 15, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

if she is not kicked out she will have us worse than hitler did his country . she i working as hard as she can to put us under complete gov, ment controol and have us all to bow down to her . if they would work a s hard creating work for every body then every body could afford to buy ins, that was suted to them

Posted by: mahye1935 | March 15, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line (and you know this in your heart): If you like your state Dept of Motor Vehicles, you'll love "health care reform"

Posted by: APatriotlad | March 15, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Obama promises the $500 billion dollars he is taking away from Medicare to give to his health care bill in order to make it viable, will not harm Medicare?

You lie, sir! There are no mental gymnastics that allow one to spend $500 billion dollars in two places at the same time. It cannot be done. The arrogance of Obama and Pelosi is enough to make one vomit conspicuously in their presence. Perhaps that might get their attention.

Pelosi speaks of 'kicking down a door' to get her way with this bill. I take it the 'door' represents the American people's will. Is she so obsessed that she has become dysfunctional in her position as Speaker of the House. Does Ms. Pelosi believe that the title of 'Speaker' means that only she is allowed to speak? Pelosi has become a fanatic about this bill, no longer rational seeing both side of the issue. Dysfunctional, completely.

When hired government officials run amok and willfully disobey the citizens who have hired them to office, the only recourse is impeachment.

Impeach those government officials who refuse to do the will of the people, which is; trash this health care reform bill and start over with true clarity and disclosure. They have left no other option.

Posted by: prossers7 | March 15, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

What is about to happen in Congress is the greatest political blunder in American history. And it will not stand.

Posted by: donchew1 | March 15, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

It's interesting to compare the debate over this bill to the pseudo-debates that preceded the various "emergency measures" that really did get rammed through congress over the last decade, like the patriot act, the bank bailout, the detainee bill, or the Iraq war resolution. These measures were all dangerous legislative failures pushed through by cheap political clowns through a mix of fearmongering and disinformation, in some cases with no debate whatsoever in a matter of days. By contrast, debate on the health care bill has taken over a year, and it's proponents have struggled and negotiated hard every inch of the way, overcome powerful insurance lobbies, dozens of political setback, and rivers of idiotic gibberish put out by pundits, clueless journalists, and far-right talk radio. This bill is quite unusual for modern-day America: There is labour, courage and real patriotism in it. Predictably, Republicans are scared to death of the Democratic party's courage and strength under Obama's leadership. It will be a truly rare event in American politics, but in spite of all the resentful, uninformed nonsense that opponents are trying to inject into the debate, the Democrats are about to show some real political greatness.

Posted by: opinionpieces | March 15, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

donchew: I almost (but not quite) feel sorry for the Democrats - They are in the most no-win situation that any political party has found itself outside of armed revolution.

If the pass this thing the Republicans and conservatives will be fired up and will show up to vote in record numbers in November. The independents who hold the swing vote will be discusted at the sleezy way that the will of the people and the intent of the Constitution was subverted and will help throw them out in record numbers.

The lawyers will have a field day challenging every second provision in the bill and the way it was passed so the whole thing will collapse in a sniveling mess.

If they don't pass it, their own base will be disillusioned, the Republicans will still be insenced but may be a bit less so, the independents will still be disgusted. The only losers will be the lawyers (why does that make my day brighter??)

In short, if they don't pass it they're toast...

If they do pass it they're burnt toast...

The Democrat lemmings are following queen Nancy and her jester Harry off a cliff...

Posted by: Luke-John | March 15, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans are not against the Health Care Reform package. They're not against the financial controls package.
The Republicans are pulling out all devious stops to convince the American electorate to throw out Barak Obama.

I believe most of this is an extension of bigotry baiting, that the South is still smarting over losing the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement, and the Republicans are still continuing to stir up that prejudice.

The American electorate should instead be concentrating on the best solution to our problems and throw off the past narrow minded prejudices.

Big-Business wants no change to their continuous profits at the expense of the rest of the American people.
It's time for the American people to stand up and change this biased system.

Posted by: kacameron | March 15, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

And so, now it's come to this: Do we let House dems suspend the Constitution to pass the Senate reform bill without a vote?
Well we didn't let Nixon get away with suspending the Constitution. Nor Bush. So when it comes to Obama, it's got to be the same:
Do not denigrate our Constitution for political gains.

Posted by: mtpeaks | March 15, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse


Wow.
Nuance is everything. It all seems to come down to an 'If...then'.
This is certainly one time I won't complain about Congress being a bunch of lawyers...and some English majors?

Posted by: dcunning1 | March 15, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Look at al this PR gibberish in the last week of the bill! Funny how the commentators here all settled on some notion of unconstitutional process as their main meme! Rather singulary pointed about it, aren't they? How do you think that works, exactly? Do they all get called on the same day? How much money do you think is in blog-comment management for the big political lobbies' PR firms?

Posted by: Lee_A_Arnold | March 15, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Part of the reason Dem leadership is saying stuff like "the bill is locked down" or "we've got the votes" is to intimidate the remaining 5 holdout votes into thinking they are isolated and that the other 4 have already sold out.

I think there are more than 5 holdouts, and when this bill is voted on this week, me may see scores of Democrats stepping up and doing the right thing by America by voting against this piece of socialism.

Posted by: RealTexan1 | March 15, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse


The US trying to run Healthcare. I'm not sure how they would do at that. Wait, they have some experience at that. Its called the Veterans Affairs, I seem to hear about shortage of Doctors and bed, run down Hospitals, waiting for months to see a Doctor (please don't miss your appointment) then the long wait once you get to the Hospital.
The VA way will become the US way! I hope the Dems fail at this attempt to start another entitlement!

Posted by: terrymitchum | March 15, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

What Pelosi is proposing as a procedural method is unconstitutional and she knows it. She hopes that in the 6 months it will take to reach SCOTUS, the American people will reverse their opposition. Unfortunately for our corruptocrats, it will still be unconstitutional.

Posted by: apberusdisvet | March 15, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

I have searched for the last post first button until I'm purple. The first 10 were written by Nasty Pelosi, her family and staff. I want to read those from people with a brain.

Posted by: IQ168 | March 15, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

GOVERNMENT BY THE PARTY FOR THE PARTY.

Posted by: jmk55 | March 15, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse


Do not be fooled by any of this: Pelosi does not have the votes. The House version of the bill barely passed, even though it had an amendment forbidding taxpayer-funded abortions. The Senate bill that they are voting on now, has no such provision. It is never going to pass.

Posted by: screwjob11 | March 15, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse


Wow.
Nuance is everything. It all seems to come down to an 'If...then'.
This is certainly one time I won't complain about Congress being a bunch of lawyers...and some English majors?

Posted by: dcunning1 | March 15, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't the Senate already do something like this? When a bill passes a cloture motion and a filibuster is defeated, the Senate usually uses the vote count for cloture as the final vote tally. In other words, they don't actually vote again on the actual bill. I don't know if that's to prevent Senators from switching around from the procedural to the substantive vote or if it's just to save time. But in many ways it's even more absurd than the Deem and Pass strategy because it isn't even deeming ANY bill to have passed yet. At least with the House strategy there is some logic to the notion that a "fix" only applies to an "already" passed bill.

Posted by: ElrodinTennessee | March 15, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

When the bill emerges, Democrats will be able to say "definitively" what is in it.
---------
Huh? We've known what the bill is ever since it passed the Senate on 24 Dec????

Posted by: silencedogoodreturns | March 15, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it absolutely amazing - the extent to which the Progressives will deviously scheme, using deceptive gimmicks, smoke and mirrors, and out-and-out lies, doing "whatever it takes" to persuade the more reluctant members of their party to help them get the votes they need to take over the control of, and kill the freedoms of, the American people. Our economy will follow in the footsteps of Zimbabwe, Dubai, Italy, and soon to be the UK. And we all owe our gratitude to the self-serving Progressives, and those who voted them into office, for the destruction of what was once the greatest country in the history of the world. God help us!

Posted by: L80bug | March 15, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if you understand the reconciliation process or how long we've had it. The reconciliation process is for budget items; this certainly qualifies. It has been around since 1974. Some of the bills passed by reconciliation include welfare reform, SCHIP, COBRA, and both Bush tax cuts. Which ADDED to the deficit, it did not lower it. We've been a creditor nation since Ronald Reagan. Out of more than 19 reconciliation bills, only a few were signed by Democrats. Most were signed by Republicans.

Posted by: memccroden | March 15, 2010 11:58 PM | Report abuse

"memccroden" And if you think that this thing will reduce the defecit, I'd love to know what you have been smoking.

We'relooking at unprecidented levels of pork-driven defecits and gross ineffiency.

We' will soon find ourselves wishing for the days when the national debt was ONLY $12 trillion..

Also, always remember that if the queen manages to deliver her monster baby, tax increases will start almost immediately while any benefits that might actually be in there with all the pork, earmarks and backroom deals will only start after 3-4 years.

Secondly - why doesn't someone ask the congress men and women why they EXCLUDE THEMSELVES from the provisions of the bill if it is so wonderful...

Do you think they may know something that we don't?

Posted by: Luke-John | March 16, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Original Post by tttvance | March 15, 2010 4:45 PM

A long way around to say that parents decided to use their own money and of their own free will decided to help a son. This has been going on between family members for who knows how long. It is NOT the government taking from someone by force of law to force some person or company to give it to someone else

Posted by: rchayes | March 15, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse


To rchayes: You make believe "government" is some faraway big brother monster, when government is you and me. Through our representatives, a majority (shouldn't have to be a super majority)decides on legislation. Specifically in this case, health care reform. Thus when health care passes, we who believe in representative government freely agree to have our government take certain actions that you may (wrongly) think to be by force. Your concept of "force of law" is quite unAmerican. If you disagree with a law, then work to change it. But if you don't believe in representative government, then find a country more to your liking.

The point of the family example I gave is specifically for Christians. A Christian has a moral obligation to see and treat all people as his/her brother or sister. Most family members would do what they can to help another family member, even when you don't believe they fully deserve that help. You feel an obligation by blood. If you're able to help, you do.

Now, how many families can afford to do what my in-laws have done in helping their son? Without this help, my brother in-law would have had to file for bankrupcy. Is that fair and just to have someone lose everything because they have a child who has immense medical needs? A just society would want to help my brother in-law, because most people in his situation don't have family who could afford to help pay the medical bills. A person who says he/she is a Christian, yet says in effect, "I have my health care, what happens to you isn't my responsibility."; that person is not a Christian, period.

Thus, I repeat the truth: It's an American Tragedy that right-wingers who see America as a Christian nation don't view their fellow Americans as brothers and sisters, all worthy of the right to decent, affordable health care. If "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED" is good enough for my conservative in-laws, it's good enough for all Americans. Social Justice is a core Christian value, no matter how Glenn Beck tries to make it a pejorative.


Posted by: tttvance | March 16, 2010 1:07 AM | Report abuse

One of the intangible benefits of getting this passed is that it will produce a sense of accomplishment-changes we voted for and were motivated by during the '08 cycle. If there was one thing depressing enthusiasm it was the fact that it appeared nothing was happening or getting done. Look for a D groundswell of optimism and enthusiasm when this is passed. Success breeds success.

Posted by: kranman | March 16, 2010 1:22 AM | Report abuse

The Supreme Court pointed out that corporations are "groups of people." Those people did not lose their right to free speech because they became part of a corporation.

When the US, foolishly, elected a Democrat Congress and President simultaneously, they apparently did give up their right to a constitutional government. Unless that sneaky Supreme Court weighs in on our side.

Posted by: jack29 | March 16, 2010 1:34 AM | Report abuse

"kranman" - Your groundswell of optimism will last maybe two nanosecondsto be followed by blind panic when the whole mess becomes mired in constitutional challenges and the vast MAJORITY of angry Americans sets about to throw every one of them out of office.

Of course this will be overshadowed to some extent as the stock market crashes again and the unemployment rates soar.

If that happens it will represent change, oh yes, but hope - no way.

Posted by: Luke-John | March 16, 2010 3:01 AM | Report abuse

Congratulations Nancy, you have just supassed Hillary as the most sickenig female politician in our country's history. You are truly a slime-ball without a single bit of ethics and are willing to risk our country's future to selfishly promote your liberal socialist agenda.

Posted by: brooklynborn1 | March 16, 2010 3:18 AM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi must have the foresight of a flea. It's bad enough that Deem and Pass will produce a thoroughly tainted piece of "legislation", but the damage done to the respect for the legitimacy of our governmental institutions will be incalculable. We might as well rename our country The Banana Republic of America.

Posted by: bgmma50 | March 16, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

REMEMBER IN November!!!

If the average middle class American does not do what his boss wants, he gets fired. Since the Congress and Administration plan to ram a healthcare bill into law the American people do not want, they should be FIRED. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT!!! The Congress and Administration want to use a process that was never intended to be used for this purpose to ram this bill into law against the will of the American people. This sets a dangerous precedent that subverts our system of government. Anyone that votes in favor of this bill is the enemy of our system of government. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT!!! ABRAHAM LINCOLN said “and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth”. The American people are the boss not the Congress or Administration. It is time to take our government back from the arrogant members of Congress and Administration who think they know better how we should live our lives than we do. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT!!!

REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER…VOTE THEM OUT!!!

Posted by: AngryMobVoter | March 16, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi is tampering with her future by disregarding the thoughts and wishes of the American people. What kind of political power do you think it takes to disregard what the average person wants for their life? What kind of power do you think it takes to tell the average citizen what to do and how to do it? The pride and power that Nancy Pelosi thinks she possesses looks to me as the Pride before the Fall. When the American people find out the scope of what she is doing they will not accept her ever again with open arms. How could anyone make a statement that after we pass the bill,then you can find out what is in it. Ludicrous at best. Does she think that the American people are idiots.

Posted by: joecarrsr | March 16, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Dear Paul65,
In ref. to your "Dear Nancy Pelosi" comment, I enjoyed your PS: "By the way, thank you also for REDUCING government spending on health care $1.1 TRILLION (with a "t"), net-net, while you are at it. Well done."
Truly mind-boggling that you can believe that. (Is that bridge in Brooklyn still for sale? Better hurry and buy it right away!)

Posted by: pjk1 | March 16, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Mr. EK wrote: "When the House votes on the reconciliation fixes, the Senate bill is passed, even if the Senate hasn't voted on the reconciliation fixes, and even though the House never specifically voted on the Senate bill."

Three questions.
1) Does the House maneuver mean that President Obama can sign the bill into law on the day after the House vote?
2) Or will the President have to wait for the Senate to also pass the reconciliation bill?
3) If the Senate fails to approve the reconciliation provisions, does it void the provisions contained in the Senate bill which was 'approved' by the House (without a direct vote)?

It's fancy footwork like this that leaves everyone confused and cynical about the process.

Posted by: tebrom50 | March 16, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi is right that ObamaCare is on par "with Social Security and Medicare." And those are possibly the two worst pieces of legislation ever. They are bankrupting our country and ObamaCare will make that eventual reality come to fruition even sooner. Plus, it will only increase the already deadly sense of entitlement that is poisoning our society.

Posted by: TiltedTalkDomagoy | March 16, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Paul, DON'T YOU DARE sign America on the crappy note of thanks to Nancy Pelosi. Very few Americans that are informed want to thank her or any of the other politicians that are trying to ram this bill down our throats and into our lives. Are you not aware of the freedoms you will be giving up if this gets passed? Do you like the govt. forcing you to buy things? Do you want small businesses to continue to fail? Do you want health care administered by people that can't get anything else right? Do you want you or your parents to be allowed to die because it would cost too much to try and help you? WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!

Posted by: kubie1955 | March 16, 2010 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I am for this bill. No more pre existing conditions restrictions and so many more good and needed things are included in this bill. The rates keep skyrocketing while the insurance industry fat cats get rich and we all die without adequate coverage. There is no end in sight to their greed, the American people will regain control with this bill. As far as it not going far enough, well that may be true, but just getting this much passed first is far more important now as getting it this far is hard enough. To the Liberals, keep in mind, the parts that are missing can always be added later if need be, bills can be amended and improved upon once they pass. Let's just get it done and make history, support our President and Democratic country and values and move forward. This progress is better than no progress at all and falling to the Republican party of no, party of nothing, party of killing progress and killing America. Let's all support our President, our party, this life saving legislation and just get it done Democrats.

Posted by: Hillary08 | March 18, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

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