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Tom Toles is worth a thousand words

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By Ezra Klein  |  March 12, 2010; 7:52 AM ET
 
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Yes, Klein, you and Toles couldn't be more right. Obama is using "democracy" to pass his health care plan. Ignoring the majority of the American people's opinion about the bill. Considering using the Slaughter Solution to deem the legislation passed without even voting on it. Lying that cost will be reduced for everyone (Durbin refuted that yesterday) or that people will be able to keep the plan they have now (even if the insurer is forced out of business?). Democracy is a beautiful thing, huh?

BTW, Ezra, when are you going to write about the health insurers excessive profits that actually total two days worth of US health care? Pull out those dollars which you and your ilk rail about continually and nothing really changes. What a demagogue hack you are!

Posted by: superman32 | March 12, 2010 8:49 AM | Report abuse

When Bush ignores popular opinion and makes a decision, it is called leadership and they say he doesn't put his finger in the air to test the polls.

When a Democrat attempts to lead and do what they think is right, they call it something else.

Posted by: Lomillialor | March 12, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

@superman32:

Thanks. You just proved what we've been saying about Republicans, TEA folk, and anti-HCR folk in general.

You can't just say you have a policy disagreement, and think Healthcare should continue to be a free-for-all between all Americans, where the wealthy have the "greatest healthcare in the world", and the poor and middle class have whatever's left (if they can afford it).

No, your argument is to turn to misrepresentation and spinning of the facts. Of cherry-picking what will help your point of view, and ignore the wealth of data supporting the other side. And when you can't get the other party to agree to your join you in Wonderland, insult the other party.

Nice.

Posted by: JERiv | March 12, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Ahem, need we remind you hypocrites on the right of this?

Raddatz: Two-thirds of Americans say it's not worth fighting, and they're looking at the value gain versus the cost in American lives, certainly, and Iraqi lives.

Cheney: So?

Raddatz: So -- you don't care what the American people think?

Cheney: No, I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls. Think about what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had paid attention to polls, if they had had polls during the Civil War. He never would have succeeded if he hadn't had a clear objective, a vision for where he wanted to go, and he was willing to withstand the slings and arrows of the political wars in order to get there. And this President has been very courageous, very consistent, very determined to continue down the course we were on and to achieve our objective.

=================
Health care polls a lot stronger than Iraq did, and I bet Joe Biden is not personally showing up at the CBO to lean over the desks of their analysts and cajole them into claiming health care is a slam dunk.

Posted by: Scientician | March 12, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

So let me get this straight. On the moral equivalency scale Democrats equate defending the country against Islamic terrorists with providing health insurance for 30 million people (many of whom are not even citizens)?

Really? You know that defense is the first responsiblity of POTUS. You also hopefully know that no one (illegals included) is turned away from ERs in America, and there are infinite numbers of free clinics and medical care as well. True, you can't stand to think that someone with money has access to better care than someone else, but that's life. It isn't fair. Your goal is to take from those who have earned and give to those who haven't so everyone will be "equal". You're comparing that utopian fantasy to the unilateral authority given to the Commander in Chief in wartime. Common, guys. Even morons like you should know better than that.

Posted by: superman32 | March 12, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

You know, Ezra, I think it's great that you are turning up on Colbert and Maddow and Olbermann shows, and doing well there, but the real test of having made it is showing up in a Tom Toles cartoon (well, maybe having Weird Al Yankovich spoof one of your columns might top that, but not by much!)

Posted by: gagkk | March 12, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Q1) Democrats equate defending the country against Islamic terrorists with providing health insurance for 30 million people

A1) Iraq had nothing to do with Islamic terrorists until we invaded. Iraq posed no threat to us, a lack of health care, however, killed 44 thousand Americans last year.

Q2) You know that defense is the first responsiblity of POTUS

A2) Really? Where is that written down? Isn't the goal keeping us safe? Roughly 3,000 people died on Sept 11th and 44 thousand people die every year from lack of health care. Do the math and figure out which is more dangerous.

Q3) no one (illegals included) is turned away from ERs in America

A4) Yeah, and it is costing us far more for these uninsured people to go to the emergency room than it would if they could make a doctors appointment. Plus, good luck scheduling chemo or at the emergency room.

Q4) there are infinite numbers of free clinics and medical care as well

A4) No, there really isn't.

Q5) you can't stand to think that someone with money has access to better care than someone else

A5) No, that isn't it at all. The rich will always have more, that is what makes them rich. No, the issue here is that 44 thousand people die in America every year because they lack health care and who knows how many of thousands of people go bankrupt because of their medical costs every year. This is the only industrialized country where that happens and it is disgusting.

Q6) You're comparing that utopian fantasy to the unilateral authority given to the Commander in Chief in wartime.

A6) Every other industrialized country in the world is living in that "utopian fantasy," which leads most of us to believe that the "utopian fantasy" isn't so far out of reach. Also, we were lied into Iraq and had no reason to go. The problem is that Republicans would much rather spend trillions killing brown people than billions insuring the safety and well being of American citizens.

Q7) Even morons like you should know better than that.

A7) Glass Houses and throwing rocks don't mix.

Posted by: nisleib | March 12, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

this is the most ridiculous cartoon I have ever seen. To equate 59 individuals who are obviously not listening to the voices of their constituencies as democracy is ludicrous.

Posted by: hardingbucky | March 12, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Ditto what nisleib said.

@superman32 - Any replies? Or are you just going to keep throwing insults?

If so, please see my comment at "March 12, 2010 9:04 AM".

Posted by: JERiv | March 12, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

thanks to nisleib for taking care of that troll. I'm not sure that anyone who believes that we have "infinite free clinics" and that the war in Iraq saved us from Islamic terrorists has much to contribute.

Posted by: etdean1 | March 12, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

"44,000 people die each year from lack of healthcare"?

People die, because people die. We don't live forever. In fact, twice as many people with health coverage die in hospitals due to errors or infections. I suppose this bill will take care of that as well, right?

Posted by: superman32 | March 12, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

scientician,

I do remember Democrats telling the CBO to make sure they gave them "good numbers". Still looking for a link because it was talked up and gone in a day or so.

Not the same as what Cheney did but don't go acting like Dems are immune from pressure like that. Its just different kinds of pressure.

And I'm sure if/when the bill ends up not being deficit neutral whether or not you factor in a doc fix or not that you'll all be back on here admitting you're wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted by: visionbrkr | March 12, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

@superman32:

No, but it will cure cancer.

Seriously, if you think one bill does everything, I don't know what world you live in.

Ezra probably knows if there are specific items in the bill to address that particular issue. I do know electronic health care records will help, and the dreaded "stimulus" helps there. There is probably something in there that also adds to that.

I personally like Atul Gawande's innoviative breakthru solution: "CHECKLISTS!!!". Pretty high tech and revolutionary, isn't it? Too bad doctors say that's beneath them... until asked if they want doctors treating them to use them, that is. Sigh.

Posted by: JERiv | March 12, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The truth is that angry, obstructionist, intentionally misinformed, or just plain uninformed Republicans are not in favor of the health care plan. Face it, Republicans nearly destroyed this country, and now they want to finish the job. Right or wrong, good or bad does not matter to them. Winning back the White House, even at the expense of fellow citizens, is all that matters. I was not surprised that they were really serious about electing dumber than dirt Palin. Just an indication of the extremes they will go to.

Posted by: smitty47 | March 12, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

smitty47, those grapes are really sour, aren't they?

You had WH, large majorities in both houses of Congress, and strong public opinion at your back. You can project your bitterness and disappointment on the GOP, but your party and your president blew it, pal. Plain and simple.

See you at the ballot box in November, and next January when you hand the keys back over to our guys.

Posted by: superman32 | March 12, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

The right-wing defense boils down to: "I am, but what are YOU!", to which the only sensible reply is: "Aaa, so's yer ol' lady!"

Posted by: rlhannah | March 12, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

The Dems are investigating ways to amend a bill that doesn't yet exist and then pass it without voting on it. That's the sad truth of the matter.

Posted by: tbass1 | March 12, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

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