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Affordable Care Act popular among everyone but seniors

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Jon Chait picks out some interesting crosstabs in the Gallup poll I linked earlier. Health-care reform, as you can see in the table atop this post, is comfortably popular with every demographic except for seniors. And seniors, of course, aren't opposed to government-run health care. They love their Medicare, and insofar as they have a policy concern here, it's that the Affordable Care Act will interfere with the single-payer system they rely on. The ACA does include some Medicare cuts, and the GOP was extremely effective at messaging on them. You're seeing the results in this poll.

Partisanship has a role here, too. Seniors were the most skeptical age group from the beginning, and that's partly because they're the group most skeptical of Obama. They were the only age group John McCain won in 2008. But insofar as there's a policy message here, it's comforting for health-care reformers. The Affordable Care Act is popular among the people it will actually affect, and unpopular among the people who are worried it will harm the much-more statist health-care system they depend on. Extremism in defense of statism is no vice, but nor is it a rousing win for conservativsm.

By Ezra Klein  |  June 23, 2010; 10:51 AM ET
Categories:  Health Reform  
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Comments

So, really, the only significant block of people opposed to health care reform are the people in favor of a single-payer system and worried about cuts.

You really wouldn't know that from the media coverage.

Posted by: theorajones1 | June 23, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Why not post the other graphic showing the bill unpopular with both Republicans and Independents with overwhelming popularity by the Dem's? If the majority of Seniors are R's - doesn't it make sense that the majority would not favor the new health care?

Posted by: Holla26 | June 23, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Why not post the other graphic showing the bill unpopular with both Republicans and Independents with overwhelming popularity by the Dem's?
That doesn't fit the agenda here! The majority will speak in November.

Posted by: obrier2 | June 23, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

I wonder what information came out between April and June that led the 18-29 demographic to favor ACA in June by a spread of 17 but only 6p in April. Or the 50-64 demographic to move from a spread of 7 opposed in April to 7 in favor by June. Those are huge swings.

Posted by: justin84 | June 23, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

obrier2, the other graphic -- the one showing huge opposition -- doesn't fit the propaganda mission. This is an age where fact -- fact about cost, fact about loss of liberty, fact about wrongful acts by government leaders -- simply doesn't matter much.

For example, the signed copy of HR3950, Section 1, Paragraph (a) states "This Act may be cited as the 'Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act'." Despite the clear text of the statute, propagandists now wish to call the statute by a name which it in fact does not have. The the same propagandists are willing to further obfuscate should not be surprising.

Posted by: rmgregory | June 23, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Seniors are afraid that covering the uninsured can only come through reducing their own coverage. That isn't necessarily true, particularly since I would bet that seniors are also the group that gets most of the "unnecessary" or "excessive" care that isn't really effective but pads the doctor's pocket and makes the patient feel good. This is because unlike private insurers, Medicare pays all the claims as long as what is being billed is on the covered list. Plus, sometimes family members just order that "everything be done" even if intrusive and/or ineffective, because they aren't ready to lose their loved one. Or there isn't any family member but the facility just goes and orders everything because the gov't will pay and there's no one to say no.

But all of this is what we can't talk about because of the "death panel" nonsense and the difficulty in this society of facing death as the natural outcome of life.

Posted by: Mimikatz | June 23, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Travels last week took me to Iowa where I had an interesting conversation with a senior concerned about the new healthcare legislation. He expressed worries that the legislation would cut some of his Medicare benefits. I countered that there is no reduction in basic Medicare benefits, that the only cuts which might result would be peripheral benefits provided by the private insurers offering Medicare Advantage plans--enticements like gym memberships and glasses—marketing devices used to attract new members. I mentioned increased benefits extremely important to seniors under the new legislation like the closing of the doughnut hole and my listener said, “They should be telling us that.” Is the problem with buy-in on the part of the Medicare population that they aren’t getting the message? That they’ve swallowed the misrepresentation being spewed by the opponents of the legislation?

Posted by: HealthcareAnnotator | June 23, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"They love their Medicare"

Really!?! They love their subsidized health care?!? I can't imagine why! Perhaps we could draw some wonky policy conclusions from that! And why do you keep repeating this factoid as though it really means they love "government-run health care"?

Posted by: ostap666 | June 23, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"Really!?! They love their subsidized health care?!? I can't imagine why! Perhaps we could draw some wonky policy conclusions from that! And why do you keep repeating this factoid as though it really means they love "government-run health care"?"

Having paid taxes into the system throughout their entire working lives, it is not surprising that the elderly are happy to have the security of knowing that the expense of basic health care will not be something about which they will need to worry.

Portraying the poularity of Medicare benefits as "subsidized" care, as though seniors are just free riders (rather than life-long contributors) is simply not right.

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 23, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

49 to 43 percent support is "comfortably popular," but 49 to 43 percent opposition (last two PPP polls) is a narrow plurality which is trending towards support, right?

Posted by: ath17 | June 23, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Before somebody starts on the "boomers are the most selfish generation EVER" refrain, note that the 65 and over group, whose position appears to be "we've got ours, back off," does not yet include any boomers.

Posted by: zimbar | June 23, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Slavery was popular once, wasn't it?

Posted by: msoja | June 23, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

--"Having paid taxes into the system throughout their entire working lives, it is not surprising that the elderly are happy to have the security of knowing that the expense of basic health care will not be something about which they will need to worry."--

Except that the Ponzi scheme is beginning to unravel. The security of being an early recipient of other people's "largesse" is no longer there, and people are rightfully more than a little antsy about their health care futures.

If the government goes belly up, what good a life time of contributions, then? People should manage their own affairs, and not have their futures stolen from them by dim propagandists and tin despots.

Posted by: msoja | June 23, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

"Slavery...Ponzi scheme...dim propagandists...tin despots..."

You are a treasure. Please never stop posting, we sorely need the comic relief that you so generously provide.

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 23, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

We shall see...just wait and see how those that love it are in a few years.

Posted by: economy48 | June 23, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

--"You are a treasure."--

Can you imagine Klein in the 1850s?

"Affordable Slavery Act popular among everyone but slaves"

"Slavery reform, as you can see in the table atop this post, is comfortably popular with every demographic except for slaves."

Next post: How slavery cuts the deficit!

Posted by: msoja | June 23, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Slavery was indeed popular once upon a time. And it was only slightly harder to eradicate than our present health insurance industry.

Posted by: Garak | June 23, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Old people hate everything.

Posted by: dkp01 | June 23, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I find it interesting that the numbers go down with those most likely to understand the system a/k/a as you get older. Many on Medicare are also concerned about their "GAP" policies. Although those above 18 can vote, I would not credit most with much knowledge or experience on such issues.

Posted by: dgra | June 23, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

This article catch line comes straight from Nazi Germany - "ONLY OLD PEOPLE HATE HEALTH CARE". This is false as many other polls show, and the headlines is inciting hatred - I thought the Post was a legitimate Newspaper, but now it is a mouthpiece and attack dog for Obama. Even now they make up fictional polls (all th eother polls show the majority of Americans don NOT like the Health Care Bill".


The Post has hit a new low here with this hateful article.

Posted by: Realist201 | June 23, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Klein's selective use of data from the poll is very misleading and disappointing in terms of offering any semblance of objective reporting. People should read the Gallup poll results from the link he provided. Here is a few quotes directly from the website, Klein conveniently ignores:

"The healthcare reform legislation Congress passed in late March divided the public then and has not gained significant support in the three months since."

"The 49% of Americans who today say passage of healthcare reform was a good thing, compared with 46% calling it a bad thing . . . However, the four percentage-point increase since April in favorability toward the law, from 45% to 49%, is not statistically significant."

" the June 11-13 USA Today/Gallup poll also shows 50% of Americans in favor of Congress' repealing all or much of the law. "

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | June 23, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

--"You are a treasure."--

Can you imagine Klein in the 1850s?

"Affordable Slavery Act popular among everyone but slaves"

"Slavery reform, as you can see in the table atop this post, is comfortably popular with every demographic except for slaves."

Next post: How slavery cuts the deficit!

#######################################

So your point is that reformed health care is on the same moral level as slavery? Nice!

Posted by: maggots | June 23, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Klein's selective use of data from the poll is very misleading and disappointing in terms of offering any semblance of objective reporting. People should read the Gallup poll results from the link he provided. Here is a few quotes directly from the website, Klein conveniently ignores:

"The healthcare reform legislation Congress passed in late March divided the public then and has not gained significant support in the three months since."

"The 49% of Americans who today say passage of healthcare reform was a good thing, compared with 46% calling it a bad thing . . . However, the four percentage-point increase since April in favorability toward the law, from 45% to 49%, is not statistically significant."

" the June 11-13 USA Today/Gallup poll also shows 50% of Americans in favor of Congress' repealing all or much of the law.

########################################

Klein's not being dishonest - he said that he is breaking the results down by demographic group to point point the real source of opposition. If you look at the overall figure, it is misleading because one could assume it reflects each demographic group.

Also, he is a columnist. I have yet to see any "objective reporting" from the likes of Krauthammer, Gerson, and Will.

Posted by: maggots | June 23, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

This article is such a dishonest re-arrangement of the facts and to take ONE pollfrom ONE pollster and declare it valid is dishonest and sshows the Post true intenet - support Obama with lies, fake numbers and manufactured stories.

No wonder America has turned against Obama and the GOP midterm tsunami nears, Obama and his cadre are getting more desperate....now they are outright lying.

Posted by: Realist201 | June 23, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

From the Gallup site:

"Gallup poll also shows 50% of Americans in favor of Congress' repealing all or much of the law."

"Public reviews of the healthcare reform bill continue to be highly partisan. Roughly three-quarters of Democrats (76%) and liberals (78%) call its passage a good thing, compared with 17% of Republicans and 22% of conservatives. Independents lean against the bill by an eight-point margin, 51% to 43%, largely unchanged from April."

Posted by: drjcarlucci | June 23, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

My wife and I are seniors, registered republicans and favor the health care plan. If one part of the population thinks it is going to do well when two-thirds or more are falling behind or under, they aren't too bright.

And Realist201 needs to go in for an oil change.

Posted by: Letsgetapizza | June 23, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

--"So your point is that reformed health care is on the same moral level as slavery?"--

What do you think the *mandatory* aspect of health care "reform" is all about? Do you think the fines and penalties and IRS oversight are the cutesy totems of the new freedom? Never even mind the countless intrusions and disruptions perpetrated on the private health care businesses. Who is this government to command me to comply with its arbitrary, abusive, and noxious dictates?

You bet it's the new slavery. Soon, we will all be compelled to weigh our every action as it pertains to the solvency of the state, or face the state's wrath.

Posted by: msoja | June 23, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Columnists should be honest too and avoid false or misleading reporting. The title of this column "only old people hate" the health care bill is very unfair and entirely inaccurate.

Klein hysterically and arguably justified ranted against Lieberman for preventing the Medicare buy-in for persons fifty-five to sixty-four. He said, correctly, tens of thousands needlessly die each year in this country for lacking health care.

Yet the health care bill passed will continue this shame, with most important reforms delayed until 2014, with tens of thousands continuing to needlessly die, hundreds of thousands to go financially bankrupt until and beyond then, as more than twenty million people will still be uninsured in nine years.

What happened to Mr. Klein's moral outrage?

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | June 23, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Can we use the same argument with the statistic that 90% of Blacks support Obama?

I dare say, mandatory health insurance is a little more complex.. than "a good thing".

Twain taught us there are liars, damn liars and statisticians.

Posted by: sally62 | June 23, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

So--- the group most suceptible to repub;licon lies about having the Medicare taken away are the only group not in support. Perhaps a few PSAs with what is ACTUALLY in the law instead of the steady stream of republicon lies might help.

Posted by: John1263 | June 23, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"So, really, the only significant block of people opposed to health care reform"

*********

40% is significant where I come from.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"Senirs love their Medicare"

**********

Why wouldn't a person who has been paying into Medicare for nearly 45 years and is not paying into Medicare any longer be opposed to Medicare?

My late mom loved her Medicare; She was never employed outside the home after 1953.

I love Medicare, and I am only 57.

It saved me from having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital and doctors bills for the last ten days of each of my parent's lives.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Based on the data you show, you are profoundly wrong in your interpretation that "only old people" are opposed to so-called healthcare reform. You definitely need to take a statistics course.

Do you get points at the Washington Post for posting a fictional headline like that?

Posted by: tina5 | June 23, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Ezra, do you understand the contents of that 2,400 page monstrosity? Congress voted for it without seeing it. Also, Congress has no constitutional power to engage in the health insurance business. Older people realize that politicians are out of control, so why would they trust them with their health?

Posted by: allamer1 | June 23, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

This reflects badly on seniors. My parents live in a retirement community in florida and have been surprised by the "I have mine, screw you" attitude common among them during the health care debates. I'm afraid that they are not "greatest generation" we've heard so much about. On the other hand, seniors have always been vulnerable to perpetrators of fraud. So it's very possible that the GOP propaganda machine simply succeeded in that group.

Posted by: rramos01 | June 23, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

40% opposition is a significant amount of
opposition, and that is among the youngest age cohort shown on the table.

How it could be argued that 40% opposition is insignificant is truly baffling.

And the youngest cohort is the most profitable to health care insurance companies.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Seniors are also a demographic most likely to listen to talk radio, so that doesn't surprise me. People who listen to talk radio are like those ardently believe that people with one red eyeball are evil, and who ignore to the last one of them that when they look into a mirror one of their eyeballs is red.

I say, fine and dandy! Let's end all government run healthcare. Let them eat their own cake!

Posted by: ethanquern | June 23, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

So, the group that has their own health care needs taken care of via the government are opposed to anyone else getting it. I'm 65 but this makes me ashamed of my age group. Count me in the group that is highly in favor of Affordable health Care for everyone. Ideally they would get the same care I do - Medicare. What a shame that there is so little political courage in the Senate.

Posted by: bgormley1 | June 23, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Klein would like you to believe that the youngest age cohort presented in the tableau loves the "reform", when fully 40% are described as characterizing "reform" as a "bad" thing. 40% disapproval is significant.

And we are 42 months away from the time that the major portion of the Act kicks in; you know, the part where tens of millions of people will get to wave health insurance enrollment cards, but there will be fewer doctors willing to see them?

A health insurance enrollment card is a far cry from actually being able to see a primary care physician, much less a cardiologist.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

With five hundred billion in reduced Medicare spending in the Obama/Reid/Pelosi health care bill, which would have been a political fantasy for the likes of Reagan, Gingrich, Bush II, persons sixty-five and older are justified in being wary. No one can truly believe, well some probably will, these reductions will come entirely from curbing fraud and waste.

These reductions will inevitably result in higher out of pocket expenses for many and probably some patients having more difficulty finding doctors to accept Medicare funding. This will be the equivalent of reduced Medicare benefits.

With Obama's deficit commission report coming out, surprisingly, after the elections this year, the five hundred billion reduced spending for Medicare is probably just the beginning.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | June 23, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

You have to love that headline. Not "the elderly" or "senior citizens" or anything like that, but "old people." Are you allowed to say that anymore?

Posted by: jayelle5 | June 23, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Only in Ezra Klein's world is 40% opposition insignificnt.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

I can remember those town hall meetings last summer where the Democrats were being assaulted for supporting Obamacare. Passing this Obama care is what is leading to the Democrats slaughter in the Midterms. Gee-I guess if this poll is correct, the Dems will all run for re-election this November citing the Health care bill!............we all know they won't as they are getting murdered for supporting this socialist bill that is and will greatly increase the budget deficit

Posted by: Realist201 | June 23, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Well, this is something akin to what has been seen in other countries that have enacted broad health care reform designed to cover the uninsured. At first, the legislation appears fatally unpopular, in large part because opponents are spending vast amounts of money against it. After it's passed, opinion begins to change. If the pattern holds, we should expect to see gradual improvement among seniors, too, once they realize they're still going to their own doctors and getting the bills paid.

I don't think it will ever be popular with the special interests, however. Those are mostly run by Wall Street types with profit margins to secure.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 23, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Funny the people it helps the most are the people who hate the Bill. Really, Grandma and Grandpa need to turn Fox Noise off and learn to think for themselves.

Posted by: dre7861 | June 23, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Ya, they have been living off of borrowed money for about 30 years now, and there is no bill they don't want to pass onto their kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, and great-great grandkids.

Ya....they're the "Greatest Generation"

Posted by: SwellLevel5 | June 23, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Listening to seniors at the Senior Center, I agree the Health Care Act is disliked, that's because the cost is being balanced on the backs of the elderly. But I also frequently talk to groups of medical doctors and have yet to find even one that likes it; some are threatening retirement. Then there's my women's group which uniformly hates it. Curious as to where this poll was taken?

Posted by: drzimmern1 | June 23, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I was estastic when HC reform passed....I recently turned 60 and have been one of those with "a prexisting condition" w/o HC for the last 2 years. I thought "finally, I can go and see a doctor w/o paying full cash price".....well, turned out I was very wrong. Even though I could turn to the reforms "high risk pool", I can't afford the $500.00 a month they want. So, I'm back where I started from.....wait till I turn 62 and qualify for Medicare.....here's to hoping that friends and family never run out of their unused medications.

And this is reform.......

Posted by: liberalwesterngirl | June 23, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

"Affordable Care Act popular among everyone but seniors"

One might actually believe this until he or she sees the actual numbers presented in the table.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

To sum up:

1. Some folks above dismissed Ezra's take, saying "ACA popular among everyone but seniors" is akin to saying "Slavery popular among everyone but slaves," implying seniors are analogous to slaves under slavery.
2. Some other folks essentially said "that's ridiculous."
3. The original folks responded that ACA is TOO like slavery because of the individual mandate. Which is really ironic because seniors are the one group in America who is not being given a mandate (psst, they already have one called Medicare -- and that's the thing they claim they are extremely satisfied with and they don't want touched.)
4. In conclusion, the current "slaves" (seniors) who already have a mandate, and are extremely satisfied with it, are upset that there is a mandate in the new law. Which is like slavery. And the groups that are actually facing a new mandate like the bill because they just don't understand they are going to be slaves. Or something.
5. Perhaps I'm the real fool for trying to logically understand this sort of argument. Oh well.

Posted by: vvf2 | June 23, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

"wait till I turn 62 and qualify for Medicare....."

Minimum age for Medicare is 65, in most cases. End Stage Renal Disease is an exception to the law requiring 65 years of age.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

the swing from the 4/12 ap-gfk poll to the 6/14 poll is actually quite shocking: 39% support to 50% support; 50% oppose to 42% oppose. somebody tell jorge will for me!

Posted by: jackjudge4000yahoocom | June 23, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

I only look at the Washington Post for the sports section. Idiots like this writer are the reason why that will continue. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Your president is a socialist. Name one specific example where that system has helped a country prosper. What's that I hear? Nothing from you? Thanks.

Posted by: HogInCharlotte | June 23, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Klein, you missed the boat. Those who are old AND WISE have figurd out that the Comrade Obozo Left Wing Pinko Communist Healthcare scam is just that, a fraud. It's those who are young and foolish like yourself who haven't seen through the scam.

Now son, go home, and read up about the evils of communism to learn that Comrade Obozo/Hairless Reid/Chairwoman Maolosi have led everyone astray.

I will bet one thing. You left wing pinko liberal socialist marxist maoist lenninist castroist sandanista-ist chavezist Communist Dumbocrats who are Comrade Obozo's lapdog at the WaPO probably asked the question so as to get the results you wanted. Bad journalism. For shame!!!

TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK!!!

MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN!!!

The clock IS ticking, the writing IS on the wall, and come November you Dumbocrats' time IS up!!! YOU GOIN' DOWN!!!

VOTE REPUBLICAN TO SAVE THE UNION FROM THE COMRADE OBOZO/HAIRLESS REID/CHAIRWOMAN MAOLOSI JUNTA'S LEFT WING PINKO COMMUNIST PLOTS, PLOYS, SCHEMES, AND LACKEYS!!!

FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!

Posted by: A1965bigdog | June 23, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

VOTE REPUBLICAN TO SAVE THE UNION FROM THE COMRADE OBOZO/HAIRLESS REID/CHAIRWOMAN MAOLOSI JUNTA'S LEFT WING PINKO COMMUNIST PLOTS, PLOYS, SCHEMES, AND LACKEYS!!!

FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!

Posted by: A1965bigdog

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just what we need, more Red China Republicans. Maybe we should have more of the same Kim Jong Palin.

Posted by: camera_eye_11 | June 23, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Headline:

"Poll: Only old people hate the health care law"

Body of table:

Prompt refutation of the headline.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

VOTE REPUBLICAN TO SAVE THE UNION FROM THE COMRADE OBOZO/HAIRLESS REID/CHAIRWOMAN MAOLOSI JUNTA'S LEFT WING PINKO COMMUNIST PLOTS, PLOYS, SCHEMES, AND LACKEYS!!!

FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!

Posted by: A1965bigdog

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just what we need, more Red China Republicans. Maybe we should have more of the same Kim Jong Palin.

Posted by: camera_eye_11 | June 23, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

There, there child. You're too young to understand the evils of communism. Until you grow up and understand how evil the Comrade Obozo/Hairless Reid/Chairwoman Maolosi Communist Healthcare plot is, you'll just have to go watch your Nick at Night till you grow up!!!

TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK!!!

MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN!!!

The clock IS ticking, the writing IS on the wall, and come November you Dumbocrats' time IS up!!! YOU GOIN' DOWN!!!

VOTE REPUBLICAN TO SAVE THE UNION FROM THE COMRADE OBOZO/HAIRLESS REID/CHAIRWOMAN MAOLOSI JUNTA'S LEFT WING PINKO COMMUNIST PLOTS, PLOYS, SCHEMES, AND LACKEYS!!!

FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!
FREDERICKSBURG!!!

Posted by: A1965bigdog | June 23, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Before somebody starts on the "boomers are the most selfish generation EVER" refrain, note that the 65 and over group, whose position appears to be "we've got ours, back off," does not yet include any boomers.

Posted by: zimbar

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

True, however it's painful to say that the "Greatest Generation" turned into the "Greediest Generation". Truth is though that most of the people who fought in WW2 are dead and this is more from the Eisenhower fighting/voting age block.

Maybe the lack of suffering through the Depression and endless growth in their prime working years corrupted this group beyond hope.

Posted by: theobserver4 | June 23, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Only in Ezra Klein's world is 40% opposition insignificnt.

Posted by: etronsen

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When almost 20% of Americans would be opposed to free rainbows and puppies because it was passed by a Democrat it is insignificant. That must really piss you off. The rest of America doesn't care what conservatards have to say. They drove us in the ditch and won't be trusted to pull us back out of it. We took the keys back.

Posted by: theobserver4 | June 23, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

How selfish can you get? What a bunch of small minded greedheads. They got theirs and don't want anyone else to benefit. I WISH there were death panels, if that's gonna be their attitude.

Posted by: mikelemm | June 23, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

The oldies should be rendered into SOYLENT GREEN!

Posted by: gce1356 | June 23, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

As an oldster with more than 21 years on Medicare, I must say that I am greatly appreciative of the sense of medical security it has provided, even though I have rarely needed care. I look forward to the day when all Americans have the same security, especially those who most need it. That said, the whole nation would be better off medically and financially if we all made a greater effort to care for ourselves. A simple but effective set of rules: Don’t smoke, don’t drink, don’t take street drugs, don’t overeat, and walk a lot if physically able. Longevity in good health is not usually a simple matter of lucky genetics.

Posted by: leifrakur2 | June 23, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Wait until the under 50's start paying thru the teeth the increased ObamaCare Taxes that are due to kick in after the first of the year !!!

Take the same Poll then and see how many of them are still charmed by the O'BlahBlah LIE about Free Heathcare !!!

The Economic reality of the New Mandatory OBlahBlahHealthCare has NOT started to impact the young and naive of the Nation.

Wait until THEY see that BIG chunk deducted from THEIR Paychecks and then see how THEY feel !!!

Posted by: thgirbla | June 23, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

It still amazes me how the Republitards keep denigrating the idea of "free health care." We already know it isn't free since our taxes will pay for it. That's not free, it's just money well spent. And our taxes *should be* paying for universal coverage instead of endless wars and corporate giveaways.

Posted by: gce1356 | June 23, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

It would appear that the more life experiences and knowledge you have, the greater one's rejection of Obamacare.

Go figure.

Posted by: playfair109 | June 23, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

"So, really, the only significant block of people opposed to health care reform"

*********

40% is significant where I come from.

Posted by: etronsen | June 23, 2010 5:57 PM

-------

It's your current Minority in Congress. Let's hope you stay there.

Posted by: gce1356 | June 23, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Good thing...bad thing? You're kidding, right? Just how scientific or informed can your questions be?

You ignorant, liberal, lying hack.

You have proved nothing at all except just how stupid you are.

Posted by: joesmithdefend | June 23, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

"But I also frequently talk to groups of medical doctors and have yet to find even one that likes it; some are threatening retirement."

Really? Strange.

One can only wonder why any doctor would be unhappy that millions of additional Americans will be able to purchase private health insurance, and that nothing was done in the law that in any way restricts doctors' medical practice or compensation in any way.

The doctors with whom I have spoken about the new law are very pleased that coverage will be subsidized for people who otherwise could not afford it, and that people with pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain insurance, and that seems like the more logical opinion for doctors to hold about the reforms which increase access to their care.

On another topic, it is remarkable how so many mindless robotic childlike anti-Obama trolls still get themselves all excited about HCR, even when the post is only about a public opinion poll.

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 23, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Seniors are selfish free-riding pigs when it comes to Medicare Part D, which is completely unpaid for, and for which you never here the hypocritical teabaggers make a peep over.

Posted by: jswarren | June 23, 2010 10:27 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: houlongaaa | June 23, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

allamer: yes, it's 2400 pages. Yes, legislation is complicated. Why is it complicated because it has to waste 100s of pages just to make things like banning abortion from being paid for with this airtight enough to satisfy pro-lifers and then they still aren't satisfied. This is really the lamest argument there is against. It's too long.

Posted by: jswarren | June 23, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

What has to scare GOPs is that like gay marriage, it's more accepted the younger you are. That means as time goes on ObamaCare will be supported by larger and larger %s and CONs will once again be on the wrong side of history. That is really what they fear most, being on the wrong side of history again. That's why they have to repeal it NOW so badly, before people start to like it. Then they can replace it and sort of take credit for HCR and be on the right side of history. If ObamaCare isn't repealed, they will be on the wrong side of history again.

Posted by: jswarren | June 23, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Just wait until those so called youngsters find out what a burden the cost of Odumbocare will be on them. Add that to the additional taxes they will pay for all his other stupid programs, and even those meatheads will wake up.

Posted by: LarryG62 | June 23, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

LarryG: ahhhh fear & schmear. Well, we already know what the costs of GOP HCR would look like, because GOP policies are NEVER paid for. GOPs never pay for their spending(Reagan, Medicare Part D, Iraq War...) they just borrow it from the Chi-coms. Where were you when GWB was ramming the unpaid for Medicare Part D down our throats?

Posted by: jswarren | June 23, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse

So let's get this straight...
The first NEW TAXES for Obamacare hit AFTER the midterms.
The big ones across the board hit AFTER the 2012 elections....
If Obamacare is such a good deal, why are they waiting?

So let's get this straight...
UNIONS are basically EXEMPT from the new taxes until AFTER the 2016 elections!
The folks who passed the law binding on everyone else, are themselves EXEMPTED from having to fall under its rules.
If Obamacare is such a good deal, why are they opted out?

I mean, come on, this is the savior of the universe we're talking about here.

Will one of you put down down your Kool-Aid glass and try to explain it to all of us 'unenlightened'. The answer is already obvious, but I'm curious to see how you'll spin this fiasco.

Posted by: kentuckythunder | June 23, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

"Just wait until those so called youngsters ... "

Young people are not actually young? Just "so called" ... ?

Open Mic Night for Anti-Obama Trolls continues to be a great success.

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 23, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

I don't find this poll impressive as favoring "healthcare." Headline for the article is a bit misleading. In fact, all of the headlines on the WashingtonPOST are misleading.

Posted by: mjno | June 23, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Health care reform and fiscal responsibility go hand in hand. Keep the borrow and spend deregulation Repubolicans out of this. They have rung up enough with their unpaid for policies to destroy the economy, wrung up enough to destroy the middle class and hung up enugh to destroy the Gulf Coast. Somebodies' gotta pay for this and as musch as it is the people who'll benefit directly from it it should also be the corporations that benefited from the workers.

Posted by: glenglish | June 23, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

this is the worst title ever for an article.....
let's vilify anyone that doesn't agree with our president.you would have us to believe that they are all crazy or old or complete idiots....

i don't know anyone that is happy about the healthcare bill and i am definitely not hanging out in the senior citizen center....

that poll certainly does not speak for me or anyone that i know.

this spins about as well as obama's census worker job's numbers and the last push for the tax break for new homebuyers.i believe we were told that it showed we were coming out of the recession....and then today's distastrous numbers reveal a housing slump the likes that hasn't been seen since 1963.

it's not just the gulf coast that is drowning in sludge....it's our entire country.

obama's hope translates into america's hopelessness.

Posted by: calkat05 | June 23, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

grow up ezra. its not about whether the provisions of the law are popular in general or individual provisions. everybody will take something for nothing - indeed, by that standard the legislation continues to poll dreadfully. the important question is whether or not we can AFFORD it: the technical (and highly questionable) $100 billion "savings" occurs along side ten times that amount in new spending. In other words, we are in the hol3 $900 billion when everybody knows the #1 priority is less government spending. and there's a news flash: even that $100 billion in promised "savings" has been swallowed up the over $100 billion jump we've seen in the projected cost of the legislation. game over ezra. we want the status-quo back becuase obama's alternative will blast another hole in the deficit big enough to drive another iraq war through.

Posted by: dummypants | June 23, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

"that poll certainly does not speak for me or anyone that i know."

Oh.

Clue: This is because a public opinion poll is not an exercise that is designed to "speak for" any one individual and his or her circle of friends.

Believe it or not, calkat05, there might be some people that think differently about any given suject than you do, and sometimes even a majority will think differently. Public opinion polls help us find out when that happens the case.

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 24, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

"Public opinion polls help us find out when that happens the case."

meant to type:

"...happens to be the case."

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 24, 2010 12:11 AM | Report abuse

--"In conclusion, the current "slaves" (seniors)"--

Bzzzzt. The current slaves aren't strictly the seniors, who have, as has been pointed out, spent a lifetime contributing to the socialist health care failure (and not voluntarily, either), but everyone else still employing or being employed, including those youngsters who will be *required* (upon pain of impoverishment or incarceration) to buy health insurance just when they are in the prime of their lives and rightly judge that they don't need such an expense.

And truly, anyone *forced* to do another's bidding, without recourse, is that other person's slave. It used to be there was a plantation owner that one could point one's finger at. Now there is only the nebulous "government", with Ezra Klein as its bellhop.


Posted by: msoja | June 24, 2010 12:39 AM | Report abuse

"And truly, anyone *forced* to do another's bidding, without recourse, is that other person's slave. It used to be there was a plantation owner that one could point one's finger at. Now there is only the nebulous "government", with Ezra Klein as its bellhop."

Once again, anarchist msoja, your view of the American system of democracy and representative government as "slavery" (of the individual by the expression of will of the majority of his or her fellow citizens) provides never-ending amusement.

But ~why~ will you never answer my constant question about why you will not take advantage of the open opportunity to cast aside the shackles of your "slavery" and live in perfect freedom in a state with no bullying government at all, like Yemen or Somalia? No taxation, no infringement on your absolute personal freedom, these lawless lands are msoja's personal dream come true.

The owner of this "plantation" called the United States of Ameridca does not prohibit your exit to those greener pastures, nor does "bellhop" Ezra Klein.

So why do you choose to remain here and enjoy all of the fruits of the efforts of the constitutional government that enslaves you?

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 24, 2010 2:43 AM | Report abuse

How are you a "slave" if nobody prohbits your departure from the "plantation," mosoja?

And why do you choose to stay and self-identify as a slave?

???

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 24, 2010 2:57 AM | Report abuse

This is the usual bias and propaganda from Ezra Klein; this guy has never met a "progressive" that he did not love and adore.

All Klein has to do is get out of his cubicle... and go talk to people. Fully explain to them, the ramifications of Obama care - then watch the reactions, regardless of the age group of the listener.

The great majority of Americans do not want Obama care. This will be a continuing, unfolding disaster... and it has started already with the lies being revealed.

Posted by: wilsan | June 24, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately for Ezra, the same poll had adults favoring repeal 50-45. half the country wants its REPEALED!!!

Take away 6-8 pts of support and add 6-8 pts of opposition and you start to appreciate the true level of public opposition to this bill. average obamacare ratings for every poll. any wonder they cherry picked gallup to write a poll?


Gallup: -2.375
AP/GfK: -2.5
ABC/WaPo: -5
PPP (D): -9
Democracy Corps (D): -9.5
CBS News: -10
Ipsos/McClatchy: -10
Pew: -10.3
NBC News/WSJ: -13.3
Quinnipiac: -15.16667
Fox News: -15.66667
Rasmussen: -16.45
CNN/Op Rsrch: -17.5

To put it differently, of the 78 polls conducted this year, four have shown net favorable results for the PPACA. Gallup conducted three of them.

Posted by: dummypants | June 24, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

--"the individual by the expression of will of the majority of his or her fellow citizens"--

Mob rule. It has the veneer of civility, but it's the same old rotten despotism at core.

Posted by: msoja | June 24, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Wow, the WaPo and Ezra cherrypicking polls..who'da thunkit?

To put it differently, of the 78 polls conducted this year, four have shown net favorable results for the PPACA. Gallup conducted three of them.
And, on the same day Gallup released the poll about how +3% favor the PPACA, they released another poll showing a +5% majority wanting it REPEALED!

Posted by: OttoDog | June 24, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

A more evenhanded (and considerably less biased) overview of the numbers:

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2010/06/23/does-almost-everyone-really-love-obamacare/

Posted by: OttoDog | June 24, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"Mob rule. It has the veneer of civility, but it's the same old rotten despotism at core."

Yes, we know that you consider democratically elected representative government to be despotic mob rule, but (as always) you avoid the question of why you don't live in a place without government interference in your cherished individual freedom?

Why do you choose to be enslaved?

Posted by: Patrick_M | June 24, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I am one of 44,000,000 members of a single-payer, government-run health program. It is called Medicare. It has worked very well for seniors since the 1960s, and is the program around which the entire U.S. health system should be modeled. Special interests and their monied influence with our Congress has prevented a program like this from being implemented. After all, insurance CEO's don't want to give up those $20+ million dollar incomes. So, as a result, they have financed huge campaigns of lies aimed at frightening seniors into believing they are being harmed by health reform. Seniors love our single-payer, government-run health program. If we believe the wild accusations we have heard from those who oppose health reform, then certainly we will oppose this health reform. I have tried to explain to seniors on my website how health reform will help them. Patient cost-sharing for preventive services such as cancer screenings will be eliminated on Jan. 1, 2011 for Medicare beneficiaries. Government payments to doctors for preventative services will be increased. Coverage of an annual wellness visit that includes a comprehensive health-risk assessment and a personalized prevention plan will also be added to the services covered by Medicare.
The donut hole will be gradually filled in before completely closing in 2020.
The only funds being removed from Medicare are excess payments being made to Medicare Avantage insurance compainies. Those companies have been enjoying record profits at the expense of the Medicare Trust Fund long enough.
Seniors, don't swallow the misinformation that floods your email inbox every day with lies about health reform. You will experience a net benefit, not lose. I am a senior, and a not-for-profit advocate for seniors. I have every reason to tell you the truth. Robert Fassbach, editor, www.seniorark.com

Posted by: seniorarkcom | June 24, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

--"Why do you choose to be enslaved?"--

I've chosen this?

Posted by: msoja | June 25, 2010 1:06 AM | Report abuse

--"After all, insurance CEO's don't want to give up those $20+ million dollar incomes."--

You're contending that less than a dozen (I'm just guessing, please correct me with citations) CEOs are holding the country hostage to wonderful collectivist health care?

You're contending that Medicare isn't on the brink of financial disaster to such an extent that the government has decided it needs to force *everyone* to "donate" to its "sustainability" upon pain of threatened impoverishment and/or incarceration, but that the whole lovely solvent thing should be rolled out universally and everyone will be transfixed with the utter magic of it?

Let me guess. You're Dave Weigel!

Posted by: msoja | June 25, 2010 1:22 AM | Report abuse

you dont need a poll to know how unpopular this bill is. Just the fact that the democrats dont want to talk about it says enuf.

Every day there is more bad news about this bill.

Posted by: vrbjunk | June 25, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

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