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Posted at 6:00 AM ET, 06/ 4/2008

Barack Obama vs Lou Dobbs

By Michael Dobbs


Boca Raton, FL, May 22, 2008.

"A certain segment has basically been feeding a kind of xenophobia. There's a reason why hate crimes against Hispanic people doubled last year. If you have people like Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh ginning things up, it's not surprising that would happen."
--Barack Obama, Palm Beach fundraiser, May 22, 2008.

The presumptive Democratic nominee for president needs to be more careful in his use of statistics. If he is going to blame Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh for "ginning up" hate crimes against Hispanics, he needs solid data to back up his allegation. The hate crimes statistics that he threw around at a fundraiser in Florida are wildly inaccurate--and a subsequent modified claim provided by his campaign was also off the mark.

The Facts

As I made clear yesterday, Lou Dobbs of CNN is no relation to the Fact Checker. The CNN anchor has repeatedly made use of flawed statistics to fuel his anti-illegal immigrant campaign. His claim that illegal immigrants were responsible for introducing 7,000 new cases of leprosy into the country between 2002 and 2005 was grotesquely inaccurate. (The number of new leprosy cases discovered in 2006 was 137.) He was also way off the mark in saying that a third of the prison population is made up of illegal immigrants. (Immigrants, legal and illegal, account for about six per cent of the total prison population.)

That said, however, there is no excuse for resorting to equally flawed data to attack Dobbs and his ilk. Statistics on hate crimes are easily checkable through the FBI website, and show nothing like the increase claimed by Obama. The most recent data available are for 2006, not 2007. As you can see from the following chart, hate crime offenses against Latinos rose from 529 in 2003 to 770 in 2006, a total increase over three years of about 45 per cent.

In the previous three years, the incidence of hate crimes against Latinos had been falling, so they are now back to where they were around 2000. Whatever you think about Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh, it is difficult to point to these trends as evidence that they are somehow responsible for a "doubling" in anti-immigrant hate crimes. It is also worth noting that hate crimes against Latinos are still only a fraction of hate crimes against African-Americans.

When I asked the Obama campaign for an explanation, I was told that the candidate had been referring to anti-Latino crimes in California. (That was not at all clear from his remarks.) Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor pointed to data used by the Amy Goodman "Democracy Now" radio show aired on many public radio stations. Goodman told her listeners last December that the number of hate crimes against Latinos in California, the state with the largest number of Latinos, had "almost doubled" since 2003. She did not provide a source.

A couple of points to note here. (1) Obama was quoting Goodman incorrectly. He said that hate crimes against Latinos doubled last year, not since 2003. (2) Goodman got it wrong in the first place. Here is what the California Department of Justice has to say in its latest report on hate crimes.

Anti-Hispanic Offenses - Anti-Hispanic offenses averaged 187 between 2001 and 2005, with a high value of 207 in 2001 and a low of 142 in 2003. In 2006, 218 of these offenses were reported, an increase of 16.0 percent from their 2005 value.

In other words, the trend in anti-Latino hate crimes in California roughly paralleled the trend in the rest of the country. A total of 11 more hate crimes were reported against Hispanics in 2006 in California than in 2001. There was a 54 per cent rise in hate crimes in California between 2003 and 2006.

Obama "misspoke," said Mark Potok, editor of the Southern Poverty Law Center's quarterly Intelligence Report, which has been highly critical of Lou Dobbs for "twisting the facts" on the immigration issue. According to Potok, hate crimes are routinely underreported but the figures provided by the FBI are the best available. There is no evidence for a doubling of hate crimes against Latinos, as claimed by Obama.

The Pinocchio Test

This is hardly the first time that Obama has come up with faulty stats. I have already called him out for repeating the myth that there are more young black men in prison than in college. And then there was the time when he said that 10,000 people had been killed in tornadoes in Kansas when the real figure was 12. Perhaps he could do with a personal fact checker.



(About our rating scale.)

By Michael Dobbs  | June 4, 2008; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  4 Pinocchios, Barack Obama, Candidate Watch, Immigration, Social Issues  
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Comments

You must have been saving this up for a rainy day. Obviously, the 10,000 is a gross misstatement that you would have to excuse because it just so obviously wrong. Plus, what is he gaining.
As to the hate crimes:
1) You're right that he shouldn't be finger pointing.
2) You shouldn't be finger pointing because it is well known that a staggering number goes unreported.
Not one of your better tests.

Posted by: vcsmith | June 4, 2008 7:38 AM | Report abuse

If you want to fault Obama for a few whoopers now just wait until he gets into the White House in turns this country into a 3rd world slum. President Bush has given him a good start and I am sure he is willing to complete the job by joining Mexico and USA as one country. Maybe John McBush should be on same ticket with Obam, After they are two heads of the same snake.

Posted by: budswisr | June 4, 2008 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Check-out the American Legion's terrific booklet on the Illegal Immigation issue:

http://www.legion.org/whatsnew/releases_story?id=478

Posted by: tbetold | June 4, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Hm.

The figures are wrong, but having read transcripts from their shows, the statement that Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh stir up xenophobia is true. I'd say that's a three-pinocchio award...

Posted by: Anonymous | June 4, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Great job, MICHEAL Dobbs.

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Back to last night's speeches, did Hillary"s supporters CHEER her not making a decision?! Did she have to wait until 3AM? After Obama"s speech, did Michelle Obama walk off the stage without him? Did McCain play Raiders of the Lost Ark music before his speech?

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

I'm very curious as to why exactly Michael Dobbs has this axe to grind with Senator Obama. He excuses or downplays Senator McCain's repeated intentional misrepresentations on major issues like the Shia and Sunni militants in Iraq, Ahmadinejad's authority in Iran, or the irrational mess that is McCain's economic plan. Meanwhile, Mr. Dobbs pounces on Senator Obama for minor trivia and obviously accidental misstatements.

I have a request for Mr. Dobbs. If you have an agenda of some sort, please be very up front about that. Ideally, you should provide prominent notice explaining that your column is meant as a source of partisan opinion and/or entertainment, and is not intended as an objective news source. Or maybe you should just change the name of your column and move it to the opinion pages. If you intend otherwise for your column, please start exhibiting some objectivity and consistency in both your presentation and analysis. As it now stands, you do a disservice to the ideals of objective journalism.

Posted by: Justin | June 4, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I dispute that all of Barack Hussein Obama's misstatements are obviously accidental. The Fact Checker IS an objective column, but I don't consider it a news source. Mr. Dobbs is providing much needed fact checking of the news, however, whether that is Obama or McCain.

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Will Obama agree to McCain's proposal to join him at 10 town hall meetings every week across America, the first one at Federal Hall in NYC on June 12? Will Obama now agree to accept public financing? Will Obama select Hillary as VP?

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Fact Checker my ant Fanny!

Posted by: Luke | June 4, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Luke:

Your Aunt is Barack Hussein Obama's personal fact checker?! That may explain it.

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Obama calling Dobbs racist? What a joke! That's the black calling the kettle black!

Obama belonged to and sat through and tacitly approved of the BIGOTED, RACIST, VILE DIATRIBES of REv Wright for 20 years AND his other buddy, that digusting foul Pflegler moron is a sexist bigot. Michelle Obama is a bigot of the fiorst degree. How dare this arrogant, ignornat, biased, and sleazy politician call Lou Dobbs a hate monger. obama has donew more to set back race realtions than David Duke.

Posted by: Iyre | June 4, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Fight fire with fire.
Give the hate-ists a taste of their own worthless medicine.
Go Obama! Go et em!

Posted by: Anonymous | June 4, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

How can you argue for/against the argument when you don't even use the 2007 statistics?

lol

Posted by: Russ | June 4, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

obama misspeaks quite a lot.he doesn't care about facts and he seems to dislike lou dobbs. lou dobbs tells it like it is and doesnt throw out whoppers like obama. remember when bush used to misspeak. dont vote obama for president.

Posted by: brenda | June 4, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"The Pinocchio Test

This is hardly the first time that Obama has come up with faulty stats. I have already called him out for repeating the myth that there are more young black men in prison than in college. And then there was the time when he said that 10,000 people had been killed in tornadoes in Kansas when the real figure was 12. Perhaps he could do with a personal fact checker."

Wow now you are editorializing, weren't you also sure he intentionally mispoke about concentration camps? Oh but lie about Iraq and you have no problems with that.

Posted by: Julian | June 4, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Dobbs:

One thing that makes you stand out from other journalists is the fact that while you defend Obama against false or misleading accusations, you provide balance by also often noting his own mistakes. Other journalists seem somewhat scared presumably because Obama's supporters tend to flood comments sections and inboxes in order to intimidate you guys, regardless of the validity of your work.

Isn't it outrageous that you are the first major writer to note the Obama falsehood on hate crimes?

More than once, I've disagreed with your work; but it's one of the best out there. Keep it up.

Posted by: Andrew Perez | June 4, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Two comments: You don't use graphs very often, and thats fine. But the graph you used today was almost totally useless to the colorblind population, which is larger than one might think. I'm sure the graphics people at the Post would be more than happy to brief you on how to make charts and graphs that almost everyone can read.

Secondly, I agree with many other commenters on this page about 4 pinnocchio's being excessive. You do a very good job of being objective in your discussion of facts, but your assignment of the number of pinnocchio's is often skewed and this is a good example of that. This is clearly an emotional issue for you, but you shouldn't let that emotion damage your journalistic neutrality.

Posted by: Colorblind | June 4, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

America the Beautiful United as One America.
No more divisive Republican media induced failures failures failures
No more black black black black black black black black
No white white white white white white white white white
No male male male male male male male male male male
No female female female female female female female
No Democratic Democratic Democratic Democratic Democratic
No Republican Republican Republican Republican Republican
No more divisive Wall Street Super-capitalistic greedy Media lies
No more Super-capitalistic sending American jobs overseas to sweatshops (Buffett)
We must stop this crappy media induced division

Europe and the World are watching our 2008 Presidential Election to see if we act in dignity and grace or revert back to our penal American colonial cannibalistic Native American murdering roots.

We will unite as ONE United States of America and assume World leadership or come in second to the ever expanding European Union.

Posted by: Republican Failures | June 4, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

the way lou dobbs goes about his anti illegal immigration crusade , smacks of something akin to hatred of some kind, which is sad because the baby is thrown with the bath water.

he should borrow a leaf from jonathan power, i daresay he should just be repeating ad nauseam this logic below by power and his message will probably gain new converts

Immigration is not good for you

By

Jonathan Power
TFF Associate since 1991

Comments directly to JonatPower@aol.com

May 30, 2008

LONDON - Governments have their head in the sand about immigration - and this is as true for the U.S. as it is for Western Europe, the Middle East or South Africa.

The riots and horrible street murders in South Africa vividly portray what happens when a country pits a foreign sub-proletariat against a resident proletariat, especially at a time when the economic pie doesn't seem to be expanding fast enough.

The main trouble is that modern capitalist-inclined governments rather like it - immigration keeps down wages. (I'm not talking about the immigration of professionals - and how governments like to mislead the public by often conflating the two!) It provides an underclass who live on the margins of established society. They may not pay income taxes, (although they pay VAT and every other kind of consumer tax) but this is made up for by their willingness to do dirty jobs, night shifts and 'off the books' jobs like cleaners and nannies.

Immigration, in short, is a deflationary economic tool and governments love that.

Hence the constant campaign by governments to resist anti-immigration movements. 'It is good for economic growth' is a constant refrain and in the more multicultural societies government ministers even go so far as to say immigration has brought a welcome dose of the outside world to our shores - everything from restaurants, to 'unknown' fruits and vegetables, to music.

This is fine for the middle and upper classes who only meet immigrants in the restaurants or as the docile live-in maid, but is less than fine for the indigenous working class who rub shoulders with them everyday, in the workplace, on their street, in the schools and increasingly in the jails where immigrants or their children are now over represented.

When governments preach about integration their message is not primarily aimed at the middle classes - who if they see a problem like declining schools quickly whisk their own children off to private education. The message is aimed at their own proletariat who, they say, mustn't complain, must understand it is good for their country and who mustn't fall into racist ways and allow themselves to be misled by demonic leaders.

Governments go out of their way to massage figures on the effects of immigration. The latest felon in this regard is the UK government which has allowed immigration to soar in recent years. A few months ago a committee of the House of Lords firmly rapped the government on the knuckles for hiding the fact that evidence showed that immigrants were lowering the wages of native British (including that of past immigrant generations, particularly their often work-shy adult children).

This report is in line with much current research in America. Moreover, U.S. government reports have showed that immigrants add very little to overall GNP and, indeed, if one looks at GNP per head instead of the gross total it has perhaps contributed to a decline.

Yet American public opinion has been brainwashed over decades about how immigrants have made the economy grow faster than Western Europe's. This is just not true if one looks at the measure that counts - GNP (or income) per head.

There is no reason to think that South African leaders have looked at the matter any differently. Inflation has been a constant worry and the immigrants help with that. South Africa wants to boost its GNP figures so that it looks good to foreign investors. Immigration does that.

But the indigenous working class, much, much poorer than their developed country counterparts, are at the end of their tether. The government may have piped in water and electricity to their slums but if they can only work for subsistence wages in order to compete with the immigrants they feel cheated. They didn't struggle for the liberation from apartheid - a peculiarly South African experience - to have to share their meager bounty with people who arrive from countries where the anti-colonial struggle was relatively easy.

Would you be reading this now,
if it wasn't useful to you?
Then please support TFF and this homepage

What is the answer? Keeping immigrants out is not easy. But there are ways of the government favoring their own citizens. First, is to give the resources to massive educational retraining programmes for their own unemployed or poorly employed citizens. This has to be done anyway if the working class is not to tie the hands of their politicians on free trade in a time of accelerating globalisation.

Moreover, increasing the productivity of one's own workers is the best route to lowering inflation and increasing GNP. Second, is to help the major countries of emigration develop their economies at home. When countries that once were big emigration countries developed - as varied as Turkey, Puerto Rico and Ireland - the immigrants voluntarily returned.

It is time overdue for a fair and honest debate on the value of immigration. It is not what it is cracked up to be.

Posted by: solmag | June 4, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Your graph of hate crimes is ridiculous. How do you graph "hate?" You aren't serious about using this to support your thesis, are you? I tried to graph the satisfaction of eating waffles every Saturday AM, but I spilled maple syrup on it.

Posted by: PGR88 | June 4, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

With the General Election now started, I'm sure that the candidates are viewing all of their options for their running mate. If you want to see what America thinks who should be the VP for either dems or reps, you should go to

http://www.votenic.com

They started a VP poll last week, and the results from that poll have just been posted. This poll is honest and represents all of America. Help your favorite candidate choose his/her running mate.

Posted by: imans | June 4, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Obama and his wife should stay out of politics and stay with the church they love so much who teaches racism among other things.

I bet you that there will be an appointment in OBAMAS cabinet for the REV Wright and for that other idiot pflager. That's the nature of OBAMA, those are the people he grew up listening to for 20 years so that's all he knows.

Obama is a racist non patritoc Muslim.

Posted by: Charlie | June 4, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Fact check this; all you racists. This earth was not made for just white people. For centuries you people have persecuted folks that don't fit your "white mold" scenario. History was made this night on June 3, 2008, and it is just eating you white people up inside and out. Obama earned this nomination, he worked for it. Clinton assumed it would be handed to her on a silver platter (arrogance). This is 2008, not 1968. GET OVER IT.

The Lord was not color blind, what gives any of you the right to say who lives where? Lou Dobbs, S.Hannity, these people act like they are "God" and everything revolves around them and their words. Well, this is the HUMAN race, not just the "WHITE" race. Get the hell over yourselves, because this country is going to move forward, with our without you. I hear there's room on Mars, if you people would like a place of your own to "rule".

There's only one Almighty God and he is proving it these days, so "you" all need to take heed.

Posted by: Michaelle | June 4, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

The audience of this article is thousands, the audience of Obama's original lies was millions. This was known and carefully considered, among other factors, prior to the speech.

Posted by: Dori | June 4, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Michaelle wrote:
Fact check this; all you racists. This earth was not made for just white people. For centuries you people have persecuted folks that don't fit your "white mold" scenario. History was made this night on June 3, 2008, and it is just eating you white people up inside and out. Obama earned this nomination, he worked for it. Clinton assumed it would be handed to her on a silver platter (arrogance). This is 2008, not 1968. GET OVER IT.
The Lord was not color blind, what gives any of you the right to say who lives where? Lou Dobbs, S.Hannity, these people act like they are "God" and everything revolves around them and their words. Well, this is the HUMAN race, not just the "WHITE" race. Get the hell over yourselves, because this country is going to move forward, with our without you. I hear there's room on Mars, if you people would like a place of your own to "rule".
There's only one Almighty God and he is proving it these days, so "you" all need to take heed.
= = = = = = = = = = = =

Michaelle - Obama has been nominated by primarily "white people", in fact over 75% of his votes were from the "White Race", all of which you claim are racist. You really need to re-read your comments, reconsider your generalizations and racist views.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 4, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

The son of Dobbs with his graphs. Wow, hatred is hatred, graphs are graphs. I know you like to measure things, that's how you men are. It's people like you that like to divide and conquer. It was prevelent all through this campaign, you; FoxNews, the Repug conservatives have divided this Nation into a black and white photograh, evil vs good. Who died and made them Lord over the HUMAN race. Hate is a cancerous thing, it grows and feeds, just like any disease and it eventually kills the one bearing it. So take heed, life is to short.

Posted by: mwFlorida | June 4, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Dobbs,
You seems to be glossing over Obama's overarching points and just trying to find fault in the details. Just because Latino hate crimes has gone back UP to year 2000 levels doesn't lessen the the gravity of that stat. Shouldn't it be even more alarming that we are regressing as society when it comes to hate crimes? Further, are you suggesting that the rhetoric of Dobbs and company play no role in creating an atmosphere of xenophobia? Maybe that's something you can't factcheck without further study, but the hate crime increase and his claim of xenophobia were the focal point of Obama's statement. The increase is a fact, the xenophobia is an analysis.

Posted by: Dave | June 4, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse


With SD and MT now counted, Hillary finished this race with 18,000
more votes than Obama - EXCLUDING Michigan. Toss it in, it's a
346,000 lead.

Ladies (and gentlemen), if you are ready to demand that Supers honor
that - or you will vote McCain - read and sign the Nobama Petition
at;


http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Nobama

-

Posted by: RG | June 4, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Obama calling Dobbs racist? What a joke! That's the black calling the kettle black!

Obama belonged to and sat through and tacitly approved of the BIGOTED, RACIST, VILE DIATRIBES of REv Wright for 20 years AND his other buddy, that digusting foul Pflegler moron is a sexist bigot. Michelle Obama is a bigot of the fiorst degree. How dare this arrogant, ignornat, biased, and sleazy politician call Lou Dobbs a hate monger. obama has donew more to set back race realtions than David Duke.

Posted by: Iyre | June 4, 2008 12:16 PM
---------------------------
And clearly you are an unbiased, casual observer without a less tolerant bone in your body! What has the KKK come to these days?

Posted by: Raise your Iyre | June 4, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The reference to the 10,000 people killed in the hurricane, an obvious slip of the tongue by a tired candidate, undermines this fellow Dobbs' credibility. Its an empty headed gotcha by a right wing hack. Every time a Democrat passes wind, he equates it to significant lies, like, oh I don't know, how about "We don't torture." Disney should sue Dobbs and the Post for degrading their trademark.

Posted by: J DAlessandro | June 4, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Michael Dobbs, is it your job to make something out of nothing? Maybe you should put in a job application to write for Fox News. Very, very disappointing read that doesn't focus on any important issues facing this country.

Posted by: Mike - PA | June 4, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

McCentury McCain-Bush III Mission Accomplish Republican Failures.

America, Europe and the World are tired of selfish short sighted and backwards thinking Republican Super-capitalistic failures.

No more Republican Wall Street failures (Oil, Wars, Wall Street nose dives, grand larceny or Our Treasury, lies, lies, lies, pathological lies) destruction of Our Country and the World.

America, Europe and the World need healing through Harvard Scholar and future thinking Barack Obama.

Barack Obama will unite America, Europe and the World in friendship and cooperation.


America, Europe, Asia and South America are looking forward to cooperating and working with Barack Obama.

Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates
Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates
Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates
Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates
Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates
Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates
Harvard Scholar Beats Navy Crewman in Intellectual Debates

Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar
Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar
Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar
Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar
Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar
Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar
Navy Crewman Requests Dictionary During Debates With Harvard Scholar

Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III
Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III
Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III
Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III
Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III
Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III
Harvard Obama Intellectually Defeats Old Navy McCain-Bush III

Posted by: McBush Failures | June 4, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

IMO, this ranks right up there with your ranking of Gore's global warming movie based up upon what one British judge said. One of your sadder and more pathetic moments.

Posted by: Alex | June 4, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Fair cop.

Posted by: Obama supporter | June 4, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Also it should be noted that not only do most hate crimes go unreported. Many states pointedly do not collect such data so the record is at best unclear. Not exactly worthy of 4 stars.

Posted by: Alex | June 4, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

McBush Failures:

Will Obama accept his invitation to 10 townhall meetings together?

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

another example of obama's youth, inexperience, and stupidity. He is a leftest moron that wants to turn our country into a socialist society. He wants to take away peoples freedom of speech. Traitor obama.

Posted by: obama lies | June 4, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

For the record, MICHAEL Dobbs is not saying that Barack Hussein Obama is "lying".

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Since when did Liberals care about facts and statistics? Its all about how they feeeeeeel!!

Posted by: Mike | June 4, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Obama is making statements that are false. Isn't that what Bush did to get us into Iraq? Obama is running for the highest position in this country. Obama should also check out the stats on how many American citizens have been victims of crime by illegal immigrants.
Lou Dobbs is about the only newsman that is not afraid to tell it like it is. If racism becomes an excuse for the truth, people will still look for the truth.

Posted by: Topper2 | June 4, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Before Obama goes too far with his proposed Lincoln-Douglas debate format, keep in mind that the main issue in those seven debates was slavery --I would argue that the only analogous issue today would be abortion -- one candidate spoke for an hour, then the other candidate spoke for an hour and a half, and then the first candidate was allowed a half hour "rejoinder." As the incumbent, Douglas spoke first in four of the debates.

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of "RACISTS".

" The border remains a military zone. We remain a hunted people. Now you think you have a destiny to fulfill in the land that historicallyas been ours for forty thousand years. And we are a Mestizo Nation. This is our homeland. We cannot-we will not- and we must not be made illegal in our own homeland. We are not immigrants that came from another country to another country. We are millions. We have an aging white America. THEY ARE NOT MAKING BABIES. They are dying. It's a matter of time. The explosion is in our population. THEY ARE s**tTING IN THEIR PANTS WITH FEAR. I LOVE IT! WE'VE GOT TO ELIMINATE THE GRINGO, AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, IF THE WORST COMES TO THE WORST, WE HAVE GOT TO KILL HIM!"
Jose Angel Gutierrez Professor, Univeresity of Texas at Arlington, Founder of "La Raza Unida Party"

speaking to a Latino audience in 1999*************"We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country. I gotta tell you, a lot of people are saying, I'm going out there and vote because I want to PAY THEM BACK!'"
Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor

They're afraid we're gonna take over governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take over. We're here to stay."
Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council

"We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in OUR population. They are s**tting in their pants with fear. I love it. We've got to eliminate the gringo, what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."
Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas, founder of La Raza Unida political party; and beneficiary of American generosity.

We are practicing La Reconquista in California."
Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General

"Remember 187 (proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to illegals) was the last gasp of white America in California."
Art Torres, California Democratic Party Chairman:

"You are like generals who command armies! We're in a state of war!"
Augustin Cebada,Brown Berets

"Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future! You are old and tired. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. . . . Through love of having children, we are going to take over."
Armando Navarro, professor, University of California:

Posted by: Topper2 | June 4, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

MSNBC is reporting that Hillary is suspending her campaign and will endorse Barack HUSSEIN Obama on Friday. Pelosi and Rangel had a conference call with her and other Democrats to push her out This is not going to please those 18 million supporters.

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Whatever the statistics, the fact is that both Dobbs and Limbaugh are promoting a hate attitude towards Latinos.

Posted by: Victor | June 4, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

No, that is not a "fact" (see above). That is YOUR opinion.

In other news, the Obama campaign is signaling that Hillary will NOT be offered the VP spot. Keith Olbermann seems happy at least.

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

So much for DEMOCRALYPSE NOW: the Delightful Dismemberment of the Democratic Hopescape!!!

Posted by: JakeD | June 4, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

This is reminiscent of HClinton blaming over half the country for a deposit left on a fat intern's dress.

Amazing how the colored left can throw around race based, incorrect, incendiary remarks and most of the media - and almost all the left - laps it up because it just sounds so good.

Very much like the left having a KKKer in the Senate, the left has NEVER appointed a black to a meaningful position - but everybody just knows the right is full of racists.

Sorry - but wanting our laws obeyed and recognizing we are being invaded from the south is not racist. It is reality.

Calling it racist while ignoring it is the pinnacle of stupidity.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 4, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

You've got to be kidding. Four? As in, the is a bald-faced lie? Hillary's Adventures in Health Care tales got two, as I recall, and they were just as flawed (and about as innocent).

I must conclude that Mr. Dobbs is anti-black, given (a) his tortured parsing of sentence structure regarding the Tuskegee Experiment and (b) his consistently harsher assessments of Obama relative to Hillary Clinton.

I no longer take Mr. Dobbs seriously, I just peruse his columns for amusement. Next time, Mike, take the buyout.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 4, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

If you count Lou Dobbs himself as a hate crime (and he comes almost a close as Rush Limburger and that idiot poisonous radio bimbo Laura Whats-her-face), then hate crimes against Hispanics have grown exponentially -- beyond what can be tallied.

Dobbs tells you he's married to a Latino, but all you have to do is listen to him for five minutes and you see how pervasive that racism is.

Posted by: loulor | June 4, 2008 9:21 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA was selected NOT ELECTED OR NOMINATED. And, everyone sat back and let it happen.

The Democratic Party ceases to exist.

Posted by: bpower | June 4, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

"We call things racism just to get attention. We reduce complicated problems to racism, not because it is racism, but because it works."

--- Alfredo Gutierrez, political consultant, as quoted by Richard de Uriarte, The Phoenix Gazette, March 14, 1992 (quoted in The ProEnglish Advocate, 1st quarter, 2002).

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/race_industry/true_agenda_audio.html

Racist Mexican Gangs "Ethnic Cleansing" Blacks In L.A.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/220107mexicangangs.htm

Jamiel's Law
http://web.mac.com/waltermoore/WalterMooreForMayor/Jamiels_Law.html

How is telling the truth "racist"? Search CALIFORNIA RECONQUISTA to see clips and articles. This is why I fight illegal immigration and mass amnesty. We are smart enough to see the truth.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 4, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps he could do with a personal fact checker."
Are you applying for the job?

Posted by: Viejita del oeste | June 4, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

O course Dobbs and the "pill Popper" Limbaugh are getting high on promoting hate against Latinos and other immigrants?......

Unfortunately, inane Americans who accept their rants for granted won't argue that they will pay less at the pump for gas,or pay nothing for good health care or that their own loved ones are invincible to indiscriminate bullets and bombs in Iraq....

In the end when you winnow the facts from the spin,it is obvious that the majority of Americans desire a change quite different from the oxycontin inspired opinions and interests they propagate.


Posted by: red27 | June 4, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

This story is atleast 3 weeks old. You must didn't have anything to talk about or just another Mccain supporter trying to find gaffes of Obama's but Mccain clearly makes more. Everytime Mccain opens his mouth by the end of the day there will be something he spoke about wich was inaccurate but this is the rehtoric he spreads around state by state.

Posted by: Kelly | June 5, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

God send Obama for a reason, watch and listen God has send a man of faith and Obama is the man. Support Obama God has send hem to us for a reason. have faith in Obama and your life will be a better world. I belive in hem, he has what it take to move us forward to the next century. VOTE FOR OBAMA HE HOLD THE KEY FOR THE FUTURE of UNITE STATE OF AMERICAN.

Posted by: lolo green | June 5, 2008 1:31 AM | Report abuse

The number of hate groups operating in the United States has grown to 888 -- a staggering 48 percent increase since 2000, driven largely by anti-immigrant hysteria. And since the spring of 2005, some 300 new immigration restriction groups, including border vigilantes like the Minutemen and organizations that exist simply to harass Latino immigrants, have sprung up across the country. Of that number, 144 are listed as "nativist extremist" groups -- organizations that do not merely seek to change immigration policy, but actively confront or harass individuals who they believe are undocumented.
The quotation comes from this site http://www.splcenter.org/intel/immigrant.jsp
So, the exact data might not be right, the climate and what it produces in terms of violence are there (no matter if immigrants, black or whoever)

Posted by: tino | June 5, 2008 6:07 AM | Report abuse

Obama doesn't need data to back up anything he says. Let's get real. He could tell you the sun rises in the West and you'd all let it pass. He has never been held accountable for one single lie, and he has told hundreds. I have a feeling, however, that all of this is soon to change. Obamites, once the MSM has gotten rid of Sen Clinton on Saturday, you best prepare for the hurricane season. It's gong to be long and brutal.

Posted by: thinkwithyourbrain | June 5, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

So, the above thread (and previous Fact Checker threads) did nothing to hold him accountable? To read the Obamaniacs, Mr. Dobbs has only been trashing their candidate.

Posted by: JakeD | June 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Lol, this gets 4 Pinocchios? After all the weaseling and equivocation in the last couple of posts.

I guess since you couldn't make the holocaust Pinocchios stick you had to find something else. Seriously, for a 'fact checker' you sure do print a lot of opinions.

Posted by: lolersauce | June 5, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

well kudos for not neglecting to address both sides' instances of stretching the truth. the biggest of which is the existence of hate crime legislation at all.

Posted by: jim | June 5, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for having the courage to point out one of the annointed St. Obama's mistakes. Judging from some of the comments you are already experience the Obamots wrath for besmirching their beloved.

FACT IS - Obama was wrong and was pandering to a crowd by using the latest lefties "boogie men" Dobbs & Limbaugh.

Posted by: ApplePie | June 5, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure the left will train their off the books voters to scream hate crime some more. Why not just make every interracial crime a hate crime, that would be fair, and we wouldn't have to sort out the lies or forgive the minorities who attack majorities or other minorities without a rebel flag or a black power synbol or it's equivalent in tow.
Is it a hate crime if a left winger attacks a Christian evangelist ? How about when they attack a "skinhead" ?
How about when a post hippy freak attacks the face of the rich ? Left groups show immense hatred of entire swaths of labelled other groups.
I think we better update the living breathing Constitution to be inclusive and fair for all the haters, including when the left goes on a hate spree.
Since speech is becoming controlled even at the media level to preempt "hate crimes speech or print" toward Muslims, maybe Bush should charge the hate filled left opposition with hate crimes and enforce the Patriot Act like we're told by the haters is possible. I'd love to see that.
I mean I'm sick of being told by them all the rights are gone and not seeing it happen, not seeing some enforcement, just having to rely on raving lunatic haters less than sentient rumor spreading of some baseless interpretation they never examined.
Since this hate crime idiocy is based upon a persons supposed mindset, why not just start arresting haters before they commit the inevitable? Come on hate crime Orwell fans, get your twisted and contorted requirements and personal exclusions formed into some frame of debate so you can do some more biased footwork in the legislatures and courts for your insane goals.

Posted by: SiliconDoc | June 5, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

So let me get this straight...

Obama gets FOUR Pinnochios for stating that Rush Limbaugh and Lou Dobbs stir up anti-immigrant sentiments because the stats don't bear him out, but McCain gets ONLY TWO for claiming he didn't vote against establishing a committee to investigate Katrina when OBVIOUSLY the man should know what he voted for!!!

Screwing up stats trumps blatantly lying about your own personal actions, huh? Yanno what... I'm gonna just stick to factcheck.org for my factchecking. I'm calling shenanigans on this site.

But don't worry, I'm sure you'll get plenty more hits since Lou Dobbs gave you that on-air plug on CNN behind this.

Posted by: David B | June 6, 2008 4:28 AM | Report abuse

It's sad that you spent time on an article even mentioning about Lou Dobbs.

Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Keith Obermann and most of the Fox News casters are an endangered species. Evolution has given up on their gene pool.

Posted by: Rich | June 6, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

The figures may be wrong, but sentiment is correct. Daily on his show Dobbs highlights something to do with "illegal immigration." There are enough dimwitted people in this country who will easily transfer their misfortune onto someone else. Obama was spot-on to place Dobbs in the same category as Limbaugh. They are both rabid bigots.

Posted by: Shag | June 6, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Globalization is the result of technology and a capitalism that has outgrown Nationalism!
It is no longer possible to keep people "down on the farm!"
The "browning of america" ..has caused white racists to loose their cool, and go crazy on the subject of "Immigration".
The "fear mongers" that promote race hatred like Lou Dobbs are out of touch of what is happening in the 20th century!
They are like scared children, fearful and ignorant of the progressive social evolution and revolution, that is taking place on the planet.
Political and social change is coming at us like a freight train, and the ignorant racists that represents our not enlightened past, should get out of the way, or they will be run over by this freight train that represents our future!

Posted by: Richard Walters | June 6, 2008 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Globalization is the result of technology and a capitalism that has outgrown Nationalism!
It is no longer possible to keep people "down on the farm!"
The "browning of america" ..has caused white racists to loose their cool, and go crazy on the subject of "Immigration".
The "fear mongers" that promote race hatred like Lou Dobbs are out of touch of what is happening in the 21st century!
They are like scared children, fearful and ignorant of the progressive social evolution and revolution, that is taking place on the planet.
Political and social change is coming at us like a freight train, and the ignorant racists that represents our not enlightened past, should get out of the way, or they will be run over by this freight train that represents our future!

Posted by: Richard Walters | June 6, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Sean Hannity Confronted Over His Relationship With Neo-Nazi Hal Turner
March 23, 2008 01:39 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: Barack Obama, Fox News, Hal Turner, Hannity & Colmes, Obama Wright, Sean Hannity, Breaking Media News Media

Posted by: Anonymous | June 7, 2008 12:24 AM | Report abuse

Is Sean Hannity running for President?

Posted by: JakeD | June 7, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Minorities commit crimes far in excess of their numbers, but so long as that statistic is suppressed nobody will mind. Too bad they insist on pointing out the problems of minorities that are blamed on whitey.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 7, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Every politician scares me because they are not grounded in reality. I am extremely uncomfortable committing my vote to any of the candidates because I do not think any of them are up to the job. The Senate and the House are a joke when it comes to serving a constituency. The only thing that will help fix current problems is another revolution. They all need to be fired and the USA needs a fresh start. We have no leaders - just users and manipulators.

Posted by: Garbibion | June 7, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Lou is great in what He is doing. Obama should get busy, and start defending Us from loosing jobs and wages to illegals. Driver licence for illegals is OK with Obama, He will sell Our "POOR" country to illegals, so He will be able to run this country as He wish. As we are more devided , more power to Obama. Lou Dobbs is great, and Obama can stand this. What an ugly personality Obama has. It is all about POWER, and Obama is doing just like that. Consorship will come, Radio, TV Press own by Government, no rights, no freedom , all this is coming.

Posted by: donnahj | June 8, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Come on, 4 Pinocchios? At the most, this only warrants 2 Pinocchios.

Posted by: Franklin T. | June 8, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

The mendacity and the calculated politics of personal destruction perpetrated by the "fact checking" farce in the Washington Post has gained the proportions of the Big Lie.

When did opinions begin to be treated on a par with facts? Why keep calling "opinion checking" fact checking?

All three of Senator Obama's sentences regarding hate crimes against Hispanics is an opinion. You may disagree with opinions but you cannot "fact check" them because opinions are not "facts."

"The earth is spherical." -- Fact (you can check it.)
"Lou Dobbs is a shameless hatchet man." (Opinion, you may disagree, but you cannot call what you do fact checking.)

Posted by: R M Gopal | June 9, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Who Do You Think Should Be Vice President?
Check out

http://www.votenic.com

Posted by: Jonathan | June 9, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

McCain is pro-War. McCain is Pro-Nafta. McCain is Pro-Bush failed ecomonic policies. McCain is against the women's right to choose.

McCain will only continue the failed GW Bush policies. McCain will be a disaster for America.

John McCain said he disagrees with what Americans want. And John McCain said that yes, he says things for his own ambitions, even if he knows what he said is not true! This is HOT everyone and we must spread this information. McCain has said this with his own words.

This You Tube video reveals what many people do not know about McCain. The video is 8.45 minutes long.

To hear McCain talk about how he does not care what Americans think and how he says things for his own ambitions, go to the five minute mark of the video.

Many parts of this video are VERY damaging to the McCain campaign and we need people to see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y395Tftgz0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8OXXZCn9QI -- Air Bus -- John McCain sold America out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBobsMD7DBM -- John McCain - The Fool on the Hill

Posted by: AndreaT | June 9, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

R M Gopal:

Opinions must still be grounded in accurate facts. For instance, if it were LOUISE Dobbs, then even your opinion could be fact checked. Get it?

Posted by: JakeD | June 10, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Obama has mis-spoken on many occasions, but as the darling
of the press, not much is made of it. In this case he was obviously trying to pander to the Latino vote. Obama claims he is all about change, but he is just another politician. Just look at the way he ran his campaign agaInst Clinton. I can't believe people are buying into his retoric!
Folks, do yourselves a favor, don't vote in November! Nothing is going to change if Obama or McCain gets in. At least when everyone starts to complain, you will not have take any of the blame. Perhaps the lack of voter turnout will show Washington that we want people of real substance for candidates.

Posted by: Alex W. | June 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

When the FACTS are not on your side
argue the LAW,When the LAW is not on
your side argue the FACTS,When the
LAW and the FACTS are both against you
then...... Cry it must be Racism.

Immigration Lawyer Notes

Posted by: OneifbyLand | June 13, 2008 1:25 AM | Report abuse

Lou is a Pinhead just as Hannity! Good Luck S.....

Posted by: F..k Lou! | June 13, 2008 5:18 AM | Report abuse

Hey Mike. feeeell THIS.
a liberal secularist for Obama

Posted by: Obamatronix | June 13, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

How do you know Obama won't get in that White House and do a great a job. How do you know John McCain would do a good job. Just listening too him speak it sounds as if he would even more of an idiot than the one we have in their.

Posted by: bridgette | June 13, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama vs Lou Dobbs

Would you think that there was a descrepancy in the polls or what polls were actually used. There were so many inaccurate polls used in the previous election when the democratic race was going on, yet no shots were called. Check the polls for their inaccuracy before you jump to conclusion. You know the deal with the polls, an old trick, wouldn't you say, go on double check the facts, you are the fact checker-right?

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

People of such caliber are below me, like stepping on their little strong backs to move up. I am not that heavy, so I won't break your back when you support my step. Just stop your insanity, we are uniting on one accord to secure a better future for tommorrow, come on people, get over the past. It is OVER, move on world. Obama is the now and the future, whether you can perceive it or not. BELIEVE IT!

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Obama is the man with all nationalities. Unbelievable-huh? Well, trust, it is the truth. I can't believe that the media is trying to pose a problem with our latinoes now, at first it was the blacks and the whites, now it's the latinoes. It's so embarassing to see that our media coverage would try such an act on our American people, when all is well. Shame on you whom have chose to engage in such a mess. We are one country, united together as that is the Obama's agenda for all. You haters need to stop your maddness and come aboard our loveing and unifying agenda to restore our country the best it can be. God Bless America! OBAMA 08!

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

The percentage of illegal immigrants in the Gwinnett County, GA jails exceeds 50% as of approximately a year ago. The illegals are incarcerated for committing crimes - not for being here illegally. I have not seen figures for other metro jails.

Posted by: Doug | June 17, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

is the real reason that the gov. won't give the public other alternatives to fuel is because they can't tax the other fuels

Posted by: cornell | June 17, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Obama's entire life needs to be fact checked? How can a guy who claims to want to move the country beyond race have belonged for 20 years, until he was called on it and it hurt his political career, to a racially obsessed church run by an unapologetic admirer of Louis Farrakhan, a man who thinks white people were invented in a lab by an evil scientist--a guy Obama insists on referring respectfully to as "Minister Farrakhan." For some reason, the media elite want him to win, but just wait until the American people get to know this phony.

Posted by: Jeff Zimmer | June 18, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

Lou Dobb's anti-Obama bias is very tedious. He has lost his credibility as a newsman to be believed because he cannot separate personal hurt feelings or his megalomania from actual, honest reporting.

That he would have the support of the type of posters here who find it necessary to use Barack Obama's middle name as if it had any relevance to anything is not surprising.

When Obama is president (and he will be), we'll see what Dobbs has to say then.

Posted by: Wayne | June 18, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

How come Lou Dobbs the former CEO of space.com can except the existence of aliens from outer space but not from across the border?
I just about fell out of my chair over this

http://proudtoliveinamerica.com/forms/main/default.aspx?l=en-us&p=editorials3

"Lou Dobbs Swears E.T. Is Not An Illegal Alien"

Posted by: pcolato | June 19, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

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