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Posted at 9:00 AM ET, 06/13/2008

Was Obama ever a Muslim?

By Michael Dobbs

Anti-Obama web ad, June 2008.

"Question: Was Barack Obama ever a Muslim? He says no, but the Associated Press found records that showed Obama was in school as a Muslim living in Indonesia and the Obama campaign can't explain why. Maybe it doesn't matter if Obama were a Muslim back then, but it does matter if he's not telling the truth about it now.", June 2008.

The Republican consultant who helped sink the 1988 Dukakis campaign with his infamous "Willie Horton ad" is using his attack dog skills against Barack Obama. A web ad created by Floyd Brown, founder of a conservative political advocacy group called the National Campaign Fund, accuses the presumptive Democratic nominee of covering up his Muslim past. The ad relies on a mixture of half-truth, innuendo, and dramatic headlines rolling across the screen to depict Obama as fundamentally "untrustworthy."

The Facts

As with his 1988 ad attacking Michael Dukakis for being soft on crime, Brown has grounded his assault on Barack Obama on a seemingly solid fact. It is true that the Associated Press reported, in passing back in January, that Obama was "enrolled as a Muslim" in a Catholic school in Indonesia in 1967. He was six years' old at the time. The bulk of the AP article was devoted to rebutting rumors that the Illinois senator had attended an Islamic madrassa while growing up in Indonesia.

Documents viewed by the AP showed that students attending the Fransiskus Assisis Catholic school were registered under one of five different religions: Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant. Obama, then known as Barry, attended the school from 1st through 3rd grade as student 203. He later enrolled in Public Elementary School Menteng No. 1, a school incorrectly described by the Washington Times Insight magazine and Fox News as an Islamic madrassa.

The Brown ad misses out key facts that cast a very different light on Obama's Muslim connections. At the Catholic school, he was required to participate in Catholic rituals and pray four times a day. Teachers quoted by the Chicago Tribune said that he was probably registered as a Muslim because this was the religion of his then-Indonesian step-father, Lolo Soetero. Like many Indonesians, Soetero was a rather lax Muslim who drank and did not abide by the strict tenets of the faith.

More importantly, the Brown ad attaches far too much importance to an entry in a ledger written under unknown circumstances more than 40 years ago. The Tribune report notes that the ledger entry was "rife with errors." It listed Obama as an Indonesian, gave an inaccurate name for his previous school, and made no mention of his mother. It is unclear who wrote the ledger entry, which can be viewed at the school but is unavailable on-line.

While historians generally prefer written evidence to oral evidence, documents can also be misleading, or simply inaccurate, on occasion. As I mentioned in a previous post, there is no record of John McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone in the records of the Canal Zone Health Department, now available at the National Archives. After reviewing all the available evidence, I nevertheless concluded that McCain was born in the Canal Zone, as he has stated.

It seems clear that Obama, who grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia, was exposed to many cultural and religious influences as a child. But he appears to have shown little interest in organized religion until he "found Christ," in the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago in the mid-80s. The dominant influence in his life was neither his father (whom he barely knew) or his stepfather, but his mother, Ann Dunham, a free-spirited type he once described as a "secular humanist."

The Obama campaign says they believe that the Muslim notation was made in the ledger because that was the nominal religion of Barack's stepfather, now deceased. Campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor said that Obama "is not, and was never, a Muslim." The campaign yesterday established a new website, Fight the Smears, to counter such rumors.

The Pinocchio Test

The Floyd Brown ad is evidently a preview of a line of attack that will be sharpened and reprised between now and November. For a more sophisticated, or at least more detailed, variant of the "Obama was a Moslem" argument, see the posts of conservative Middle East expert Daniel Pipes (son of Harvard professor Richard Pipes.) Both Brown and Pipes base their arguments and conclusions on factoids that have appeared in the mainstream media. But they make no attempt to weigh the evidence fairly.

Barring fresh revelations, the Obama campaign's explanation for the "Muslim" annotation beside Barack's name in the Catholic school ledger seems reasonable. Three Pinocchios for Floyd Brown.

(About our rating scale.)

By Michael Dobbs  | June 13, 2008; 9:00 AM ET
Categories:  3 Pinocchios, Barack Obama, Candidate Record, Candidate Watch  
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Next: The great flag pin debate


It does "seem" reasonable, but only God knows for sure.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

This is simply amazing, and an attestatmment to the ignorance and shallowness of the media and American public. If Obama was a Muslim, that would be his choice and protected under the constitution. But Obama professes his Christian faith, and still the ignorant and uneducated push this "he's a muslim" stuff. Obama was 6 years old while he lived with his step-father in Indonesia!!!! How many 6 years old know or get to choose the religion they want practice?! This discussion about Obama's faith as a 6 years old is simply dumb. For those who are not going to support Obama, they will find any excuse they can from "he was a Muslim" to "he attended a radical Black Christian Church"!

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | June 13, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Nothing personal, but during WWII, would we have elected a Japanese-American as President.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

How oxymoronic? Obama is both a muslim and christian!

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | June 13, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

There are indeed 6 year olde brainwashed with nothing but the Koran.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

You have to look at guys like Floyd Brown and realize that smearing people who don't agree with their agenda is their only way of "debate." They are evidently not clever or smart enough to carry on a conversation about the issues. So they try to scare people.

What is more worrisome is McCain's rsponse to it. It would have taken him 2 seconds to say, "I reject this kind of fear-mongering." He has said he would run a clean campaign. So why not keep it clean all around? Instead, he said something like, 'I can't control evey little thing on television.' Why did he say this? Because he is interested in winning, no matter how. This is what we don't want more of in the WH.

As so many millions of people have said, "Not this time."

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

It is time to kick Religion out of American Politics...this nation was founded on Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM Religion! Religion should not be a litmus test for President. I happen to believe obama when he says that he is a Christian, but I really don't care about anyone's religious affliation, and I don't understand why it is even part of the discussion.

Posted by: Hold_That_Tiger | June 13, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Ignorance is like weeds that grow in a garden. They spring-up without warning, and the only way to kill them is to smother them, with "truthfulness"!

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | June 13, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

You know what, I don't really care either way. Let me check with Oden and Zuse... Nope they don't care either. Its not what you believe but its what you do.

Posted by: God | June 13, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Jake D: You can't say 6-yr-olds are brainwashed by the Koran. What you can say is that they are taught it, and like all six year olds, they respond how their parents/caregivers/teachers want them to respond. What happens when they grow up is a different matter entirely, and one on which you are not competent to judge.

But from your remark I think we can draw the logical conclusion that if a Muslim 6-yr-old is brainwashed with the Koran, then a Christian or a Jewish 6-yr-old is brainwashed with the Bible. So that religion is a matter merely of brainwashing people.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

McCain, the GOP, and conservative news media will only attempt to smear Obama in order for them to win in November. The Republicans know that they can't win on the issues because the Republican brand has been severely damaged by George W. Bush and some Republicans.

Let the dummies like Floyd Brown and Sean Hannity focus on Obama's activities as a 6 year old or who he knows of 1st, 2nd or 3rd-hand accounts, that may be controversial. Obama and level-minded Americans will focus on the issues like creating jobs in America, fixing high health care costs, fixing our Iraq War blunder, fixing the home mortgage and credit crisis, and so forth!

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | June 13, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

If 6 year olds here were taught nothing except the Bible, yes, I would call that brainwashing too.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse


It is not a "smear" to point out the fact that he was registered as "Muslim".

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

We are all brain washed. Even people like me who were taught to question all authority.

An example, I am just guessing here, that most people here think at least one of the following is "good": Capitalism, Democracy, the United States, and thus the enemies of these things must be "evil".

But how often do you look at how capitalism exploits the poor and middle class, the US is hated by much of the world because we intervene in their domestic affairs and our Democracy does not give equal treatment to people outside the Democratic and Republican Parties?

I am not saying those things are "evil", I tend to dislike the terms good and evil, but just saying, question everything even the tenant of questioning everything.

Posted by: Alex35332 | June 13, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Stupid Republicans,

Hillary lost her race because she spent too much time and money arguing an issue "40 years ago" relating to her opponent. Now are you saying that you are going to spend your money on things happen when somebody was "6 years old"?

You should have learned some lessons from her historic loss. Save your money and use it to reinforce your images and to change your messages, stupid.

I warned you last time that borrowing some phrases from Reagan's speech will not work. Work on your own things first, stupid: "I am the one who can bring the right change"? Give me a break.

Posted by: Susie | June 13, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse


I'm glad you believe him, but you really can't see the relevance if he's lying about being a Muslim during a war with Islamic terrorists?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I would actually guess that Obama is lying about being anything more than a "secular humanist" like his mother was, as most politicians only go to a church because they have to win over the religion vote. The GOP started that one decades ago.

Posted by: Alex35332 | June 13, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse


"Nothing personal, but during WWII, would we have elected a Japanese-American as President."

Do you mean one of the Japanese-Americans that were "relocated" to internment camps and had their constitutional rights violated? Or a Japanese-American that was fighting the Germans and Italians in the ETO?

Are you saying that Japan in WWII is equivalent to Islam in 2008? That would mean that we are at war with all of Islam, which is patently ridiculous. Or you are saying that all Muslims are terrorists, which is extremely offensive.

Posted by: Just wondering | June 13, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Jake D:

You remind me of the radical right-wing French politician, Jean-Marie Le Pen. He says perfectly outrageous, inflammatory, racist things, but in each there is some kind of a kernel of truth that enables the poor and uneducated to accept the whole of what he says.

Take your assertion that it isn't a smear to point out that Obama was registered as a Muslim. This is true. But in the context in which we are discussing this, it is a smear, which you conveniently ignore. His being registered as a Muslim by his step-father at aged 6 is being used to question whether or not we can believe him when he says he is a Christian, and furthermore, to incite poeple to make the connection between an Osama Bin Laden Muslim and our presidency. And, that perhaps he is secretly a Muslim who is intent on doing something terrible to us. It's fear, Jake D. Can't you see that? Because if people like you stopped fearing and started to think things through, you would see that it, in fact, doesn't matter about his religion or who registered him for what at aged 6. It matters on what basis he is asking us to let him take the country forward - these are called "issues of the day."

And by the way, you have no way of knowing what kind of an education a 6-yr-old Muslim is getting. You are simply not competent to say if a Muslim child is being brain-washed or not. You are just intent on making inflammatory statements.

If I might say so, Jake D: your level and type of thinking is what has been driving this country into the ground for many decades now. You really should try and expand your mind.

Posted by: liz | June 13, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I do not live in fear of anything. Nor do I think that all Muslims are terrorists. A secret Muslim lying about it in order to gain the Presidency during this war, however, would be a mistake. I don't need to watch Fox News to see that.

As for the Japanese-American being elected President during WWII, I was simply making an analogous point. Even controlling for racism, let's say he was a Harvard-Law grad too, it just would not have been good idea to let that person decide whether to drop the A-bomb.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

P.S. to Alex -- so you would vote for him or not based on that lie?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Nice catch and a very clear explanation. 'Obama 08

Posted by: James Myers | June 13, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Great comments Liz...

JakeD is like a pesky nat on a hot summer day...and you showed him what its like to get hit with a flyswatter!

He's old and lonely. Making outrageous comments that provoke responses is how his guy gets his fix.

So sad...

Posted by: Yep | June 13, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

These attacks are weak. If you can't handle that he's black or simply reject democrats by default regardless of the quality of the candidate stop being a puss about it and say so.

Posted by: Erik R | June 13, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

LOL, Yep, maybe you can get Liz to finally answer the question I asked you on the other Fact Checker thread? You really need a girl to fight for you?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse


How do you know Obama is not a secret Catholic?

He has more connections to Catholicism than Islam...

Oh, wait...that doesnt fit your/the repubs agenda

Posted by: Yep | June 13, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

In this country, people would rather vote for a muslim over an atheist. I agree with another poster, religion should be taken out of american politics...unless its Scientology, those people are crazy.

Posted by: proudly athiest | June 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

What, only 3 Pinochios??? You are much too easy on this kind of toxic manure.

Posted by: Ernest Kundert | June 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, guys, but I am busy this morning trying to make McCain exciting. If you watched The Colbert Report last night, that will be more difficult than beating the Nazis or putting a man on the moon.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse


I'll battle you anytime and any place...

Just make sure you take your medamucil and have an extra set of adult depends!

What was the mindless/lame question in which you wanted an answer?

Posted by: Yep | June 13, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse


I'll battle you any time and any place...

Just make sure you take your metamucil and have an extra set of depends on hand!

What was the mindless/lame question in which you wanted an answer...

Posted by: Yep | June 13, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Mike Licht | June 13, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Jake D: Where to begin? Let's take the following statement:

"Even controlling for racism, let's say he was a Harvard-Law grad too, it just would not have been good idea to let that person decide whether to drop the A-bomb."

I'm glad you admit that you are a racist, and that in this case you have merely tried to "control for racism" in your thoughts to make a larger point, itself flawed.

You are saying that his being a Muslim excludes him from being not just a good President, but from being the President at all. So the Constitution, which says that religion is not an issue, is wrong, as I see your comments. But there's more. You say if he were (a Muslim) but also a Harvard grad, we should ignore the education - i.e., the possibility that he is smart as hell and most likely has the ability to think, reason, read and judge at the highest level of our nation's ability to educate. WHat we need to look at, according to your own words, is his religion, which is something different from our own, and therefore we should reject it on the basis of its being different, or something we might not be able to understand. I reject this.

But where is your evidence - aside from Fox News - that Obama is lying about being a Christian, and is, in actual fact, a Muslim? Because I don't care if he is a one-eyed hunchback with a hook arm and a hair-lip. I don't care what religion he is. I do, though, care if he is lying. So prodouce your evidence.

What I look at, Jake D., is what he thinks on the issues, what evidence there is that he can draw people together to accomplish his goals - and there is plenty. I see most of today's leaders streaming toward him, people who have worked with him and are in a position to make a better judgment than me on this matter.I see the whole world energized with the possibility of his presidency and of a world we can create together. I see how he has run his campaign: no drama, no fighting, and with exquisitely intelligent use of financial and human resources. And I think that we are in a lot of trouble, Jake D. - not just our country, but our world. And I think he has the biggest chance to positively impact this.
Will he make mistakes? Of course. Will he always be right? Of course not. Will there be Reverend Wrights and so on? You bet. But this does not bother me. I hope he can get thru them. What bothers me is the situation in which we find ourselves after 8 years of Bush, and how we will emerge from the debacle that has been his legacy.

Posted by: liz | June 13, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Alex35332 - I think BHO is just using "religion" for political expediency and is probably more of a 'secular humanist' than anything.

On a side note - Is Fact Checker going to depend on "Fight the Smears" for its columns?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

They know that if Obama becomes president they will no longer be able to make money through selling weapons of mass destruction that they are using to kill even Americans. Dont fall for their cheap lies.They are weapon tycoons.

Posted by: Good boy | June 13, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse


Another SMACK-DOWN!!! Shoo Fly, don't bother me...

And, to the "nameless"

Yeah, fact checker should depend on it when there is documented evidence to rebut a false claim!

If you go to site, they actually have sources which can be "fact-checked"

Instead of, I heard this or somebody told me that...stop the bogus hearsay crap

Posted by: Yep | June 13, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

The only thing that matters is that Obama is a liar.
He is lying by mere avoidance of the issue.
He's creepy.
Why wouldn't he mention that his Father was a Muslim and that he attended a Muslim School.
Now he is throwing his past and his father under the bus.
It's getting awfully crowded under the bus, don't you think?

Posted by: Al from NJ | June 13, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Yep (here it is, one last time):

"Were you upset when the Democrats in the Senate minority used the filibuster?" I first asked you this after pointing out that the Democrats have been in charge of Congress for almost 18, not 6, months.


I did not "admit" to being a racist -- try reading the hypothetical again -- for instance, I wouldn't mind voting for a pro-life Muslim and/or African-American. My "evidence" (on this thread for starters) is that Barack Hussein Obama was registered at BOTH his schools in Indonesia as "Muslim". Maybe another analogy would be helpful: are babies BAPTIZED in the Catholic Church considered "Christians"?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Seems like it is probably now fair game to go after Mccain on his wife beating and abuse. His alcoholism and drug abuse. Most recently referring to his wife in public as a cu*t. The difference is, it is all a fact and not just made up or innuendo. They want to go after Obamas wife then lets take a look at Mccains drug addicted wife. She has, if we can believe it, only been clean for a couple of years. I read the Republicans want to play dirty, as far as I am concerned let the sh*t fly. Mccain has a past that is well documented and I am sure many are not yet aware of.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure The Fact Checker will have a thread on McCain's wife soon enough.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Rumors will not work this time to undermine our Next President's Campaign Barack Obama

Posted by: Anne | June 13, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

The fact that we are even discussing this is absurd. I can't remember anything I did as a six year-old. I didn't even know what religion I was supposed to be.

We could, however, point out that Mr. McCain claimed that all was well in Iraq as he walked around without a bullet-resistant vest while claiming that the commanding general rode around in an unarmored vehicle.

Those were out-and-out LIES. There are facts surrounding his claims that can be supported by those who were there at the time.

I'm not concerned about what a six year-old did or did not know; I am very concerned about someone in his 70s LYING with a straight face.

Posted by: bkurt | June 13, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Obama will be our Next President.
The rumors will not work

Posted by: Suzanne | June 13, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Why would brown let a little issue like facts get in his way. Typical gop. They can't win on the issues and their candidate so they do it dirty - and then they wonder why our country is such a mess. Don't buy their bull. We definitely don't need another C student as president.

Posted by: Julie | June 13, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Republicans and John McCain read polls and hear the people and they know, to their core, they cannot win on the issues this election. It is simply impossible, 2/3 of Americans simply do not believe them or believe they are sincere but mistaken.

The only chance in hell they have is to smear Obama and scare the masses that do not think for themselves into being more afraid of Obama than they are of McCain continuing the Bush policies. So that is the route they are taking. Paint Obama as an elitist, a tax and spend liberal, a muslim, an angry black man, a secret agent, a Manchurian Candidate, an incompetent administrator, a naif, a bumbler, an out of touch arugula eater, soft on crime, a military coward, a cut and runner, whatever it takes.

Just so you all know. As a southern white male of 51, I say now that through all of that he will have my vote, because more than any other politician in my lifetime, Obama walks the talk. He is the only one that can save this country from bankruptcy and destruction, the only one that can keep us safe, and a vote for McCain is not just political suicide but literal suicide.

Look at the 5-4 Supreme Court decision to uphold habeas corpus, the right to a trial. FIVE to FOUR. The SC justices retiring or dying next term are all likely to be liberals, and if McCain appoints even one more religious conservative like Roberts or Alito or Scalia, it isn't just Roe v. Wade that will be overturned. The Constitution will be gutted, the President will then have de facto dictatorial powers as long as the poorly defined "war on terror" continues, which of course will be forever because there is no way to define the end of it and no reason to do so.

The gross profits of big oil are $1500 per year for every man, woman and child in the USA. About $7500 per family in PROFIT. Consider THAT a tax on your income to pay for this war.

The value of the dollar has dropped 50% since Bush took office. Consider THAT a tax on your income to pay for this war.

We went from a 5 trillion dollar surplus to a 3 trillion dollar deficit under Bush. About $26,500 for every man, woman and child in the USA, about $100,000 per family. Consider THAT a tax on your income to pay for this war.

McCain wants to continue the bloodshed and bankrupt the nation for some stubborn sense of honor. Screw him. We are not Spartans. Iraq has become a failed international aid program that must be terminated. It is not about terror and never was, it is about "coercive democracy". Screw that. Screw them. We've given them YEARS of chances and the handouts must stop. Let them fight their civil war, we've done all we can.

Elect Obama.

Posted by: Tony C. SA TX | June 13, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

These are serious times and this election will not be decided on rumors or innuendoes. People are paying attention to what are life changing issues for many. I have faith in the American people to do the right thing. We have no choice, this country is all we have and it has fallen far and people know it. They are tired of being fooled.

Obama will be our Next President.
The rumors will not work

Posted by: Suzanne | June 13, 2008 12:04 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

WE HAVE A WINNER!!! The inane poster - and Fox news viewer of the day award goes to A1 for his/her fine display of irrational unsubstantiated ranting using points that could only be gleamed from the junior high lunchroom or Fox & Friends.

"The only thing that matters is that Obama is a liar.
He is lying by mere avoidance of the issue.
He's creepy.
Why wouldn't he mention that his Father was a Muslim and that he attended a Muslim School.
Now he is throwing his past and his father under the bus.
It's getting awfully crowded under the bus, don't you think?"

Posted by: Al from NJ | June 13, 2008 11:42 AM

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

IS OBAMA A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN who fresh out of HARVARD with his JD in constitutional law
had the options of a fast road to ease and the big bucks
made the considerable and conscious choice to TAKE A LONGER AND MORE RISKY ROAD.
to do GOOD for ALL AMERICAS (even you idiots who dont want to get it)

read the harvard law review article about his ADULT CHOICES!

not how his mommy signed him up in grade school so She would get along better with local folks. !

this is trash. he was a young child without choice!
and you know what Rehashing this can do to the too many voters who don't think things through.


Posted by: dc matthews | June 13, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Anne (and Sus-ANNE):

Barack Hussein Obama will not be sworn in as President on January 20, 2009.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse


"As for the Japanese-American being elected President during WWII, I was simply making an analogous point. Even controlling for racism, let's say he was a Harvard-Law grad too, it just would not have been good idea to let that person decide whether to drop the A-bomb."

Oh, so now you question the patriotism of Japanese-Americans, even though there were a number of them that saw combat and died for our country in WWII. That the progeny of immigrants cannot separate their genetics from their oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Why did you limit it to Japanese-Americans? Because you really are a racist? Why not German-Americans or Italian-Americans? If Operation Overlord and the Soviet advance hadn't been so successful, Truman might have had to choose to drop the A-bomb on Germany.

And your analogy for baptism sucks. According to the Fact Checker, Obama was registered as a Muslim because his step-father was a Muslim. So, if your stepmother was Jewish and registered you for school as a Jew when you were a kid, then are you a Jew or a "secret" Jew, even though you call yourself Christian and go to a Christian church?

Posted by: Just wondering | June 13, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

The thread topic is "Was Obama Ever a Muslim?" If you'd rather not discuss that, fine by me.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse


Where did you go? What happened to "any time, any where"?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse


I think that Yep needs your assistance again.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I am FAR more concerned about the "religous" teachings of Rev. Wright, Obama's self-proclaimed mentor. We've all heard the good Reverand's remarks, damning America, and professing the teachings of Dr. Cone. Take a look at Black Liberation Theology. It is a fact that Sen. Obama has the Marxist, murdering revelutionist, Che Guevara on the wall in his Chicago campaign headquarters. A MARXIST!!! Forget about religion. Does anyone know the Marxist ideology that Mr. Obama, Rev. Wright and Dr. Cone all seem to subscribe to? Take a deeper look at Sen. Obama and his mentors please!!!

Posted by: RedGreen | June 13, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Well no, lying about ones religion is of zero importance to me as again, almost every politician does it, I care only about lies that directly get people killed. I am not voting for him because I live in DC and lean more towards Green values/ social libertarianism so I am deciding between McKinny and Nader.

Posted by: Alex35332 | June 13, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

You're the one bringing up analogies to Japanese-Americans, Catholics. If you want to discuss the topic of the thread, then stick to the topic of the thread.

But I notice that while you say it would be fine with you not to discuss the thread topic, you choose not to post a rejoinder.

And your "evidence" that Obama is a Muslim in 2008 is that he was registered as a Muslim at a Catholic and a public school 40 years ago?

Posted by: Just wondering | June 13, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Thank you for a well reasoned, even handed take on this.

When a political campaign hangs its hat on such tiny shreds of "evidence," taken out of context, it suggests they have no positive vision of their own to offer the American electorate.

I wouldn't think it was fair to call this offensive TV ad a part of the McCain campaign -- except that he has specifically declined to repudiate it. I always used to admire Senator McCain, and I don't understand that decision.

Posted by: Fairfax Voter | June 13, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Mccain does not seem to know what religion he is or was he just lying.


Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

McCain: Overall faith what's important

Republican presidential hopeful Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., makes a campaign stop Monday Sept. 17, 2007,at the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 7 in Lexington, S.C. (AP Photo/Mary Ann Chastain)
By Jim Davenport, Associated Press Writer | September 17, 2007

AIKEN, S.C. --Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday that questions over whether he identifies himself as a Baptist or an Episcopalian are not as important as his overarching faith. "The most important thing is that I am a Christian," the Arizona senator told reporters following two campaign stops in this early voting state.

The comment came after a weekend during which McCain corrected an Associated Press reporter who asked him how his Episcopalian faith plays a role in his campaign and his life. While it's well-known that McCain and his family for years have attended the North Phoenix Baptist Church in his home state of Arizona, the senator had consistently referred to himself in media reports as Episcopalian.

"It plays a role in my life. By the way, I'm not Episcopalian. I'm Baptist," McCain said Saturday. "Do I advertise my faith? Do I talk about it all the time? No."

In a June interview with McClatchy Newspapers, the senator said his wife and two of their children have been baptized in the Arizona Baptist church, but he had not. "I didn't find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs," he said.

He told McClatchy he found the Baptist church more fulfilling than the Episcopal church, but still referred to himself as an Episcopalian.

In May, McCain's campaign identified his religion to The Associated Press as Episcopalian, but noted his four younger children are Baptists and he attends the North Phoenix Baptist Church when at home.

McCain grew up Episcopalian and attended an Episcopal high school in Alexandria, Va. On Monday, he spoke briefly about that history and about the Baptist church he now attends. Then, after saying his overall faith is what's important, he concluded: "I don't have anything else to say about that issue."

During a morning stop in Aiken, McCain spoke to about 180 veterans and other supporters at a Veteran of Foreign Wars post as part of his three-state "No Surrender" tour. He encouraged people to ask legislators to turn back efforts by Democrats to curtail the war in Iraq by limiting how long troops can serve there.

After that appearance, McCain reaffirmed his support for embryonic stem cell research, which he said has split abortion foes.

"It's very tough for those of us in the pro-life community," McCain told reporters. "I've prayed a lot about it, but I've come down on the side of support for embryonic stem cell research. It has split the pro-life community."

(This version CORRECTS SUBS last graf to correct quote.)

© Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
More from

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Lovely headline, guys. Every time I check into the Post, it seems that you become ever more neocon. Let's see if I can learn to play this game... "Was McCain Ever a Paedophile?" Wow! Its that easy to slur a public figure and sabotage a campaign without actually technically committing libel!

Posted by: Ron | June 13, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. They got exactly what they deserved when they elected Bush. Perhaps McCain will be next.

Posted by: Terry | June 13, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Jake D:

The Answer is NO!

As I recall, you were saying the dems haven't accomplished anything since they have regained both houses of congress. (which is not true)

Factually, I pointed out that's becuase the GOP, who cried foul when dems used it primarily on judical nominees, is now using it on virtually every bill that comes up in the Senate!!!

That's why nothing is being acccomplished. (And, don't forget the presidential veto, which then requires 2/3 of congress to over turn)

The dems barely control the Senate and don't have the same numbers in the house as the gop did...that's why they can't ram legislation through...

It's obvious you have no clue about senate or congressional procedure

Are you willing to concede this point?

If not, your less intelligent than I thought...

Don't worry, all that's going to change in november!

And, NO Obama was never a Muslim...

The only evidence you can point to is document that had him "registered" as Muslim...

oh and don't forget that same document wrongly listed him as indonesian, gave the wrong name of his previous school, and made no mention of his mother...

If they couldn't even get his nationality right, how can you rely on this document as the end all to determine his religion????

Stupid is as Stupid does...

Posted by: Yep | June 13, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

The fact of the matter is that, under normal conditions we would think the point of knowing if Barack is a Muslim, is only to then go further to use his religion as a reason to not elect him.

One thing Barack Obama is not, is an idiot.
That fact should make people feel good.

How about dealing with pertinent facts.

But I do understand these questions by default are let into the arena on the premise that, if prejudice has a vote, then your religion is on the table!

I never thought about Barack Obama's religion anymore than I thought about Bush or Clinton's religion.

When I vote, I am voting for the most intelligent person, with the ability of doing and achieving things that have been long over due!

Posted by: VB | June 13, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Hey all you uninformed readers! There is no direct mention of God or Christ in the U.S. Constitution, and no religious test of any kind is allowed for any office of the United States. What makes you wiser than the Founding Fathers?

Posted by: Terry | June 13, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

It seems reasonable that Obama may have been a Muslim because his father and stepfather were Muslims and he was raised partially in a predominantly Muslim country. He says he is Christian, attending Reverend Wright's church for 20 years until he was pressured to leave the church recently. There should be a way of checking (he should be asked specific questions and he should provide specific, not general or vague, answers) what church he attended or what his religion was before he joined the Trinity church. As pointed out, the problem may not be whether he was, in fact, registered a Muslim (even though he or his stepfather might not have been practicing Muslims) but rather the attempted cover-up and the reason for the cover-up. Ultimately, the issue is whether or not he is trustworthy. Can somebody do more serious investigating?

Posted by: Margarita L. | June 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

1. A 40-year old school record from Indonesia, that contains many errors, has 6-year-old Obama listed as a Muslim.

2. Barack Obama says that he was never a Muslim.

Why can't both of these things be true?

If this is all the evidence that can be assembled that Obama is a 'secret Muslim' (crazy JakeD's words), then the conclusion is clear: Obama is who he says he is.

Jake - maybe all reality is an illusion, or you are dreaming or hallucinating, and if you ram your head against a cinder block wall, it will pass right through. Hey - I'm just saying - you'll never know FOR SURE until you try. Also, it is it true that John McCain is a secret zombie who died while a prisoner of war and was zombified by our enemies for exactly this purpose? It's possible, and I think we should spend a lot of punditry time discussing this possibility.

Posted by: msw13 | June 13, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Mike Lecht:

Since I don't read Yiddish, I only reviewed your first link (I did not see Obama's schooling addressed at all). It certainly did not answer the thread topic question: Was Barack Hussein Obama Ever a Muslim?


I hope you understand that I am concerned about ALL lies, even lies about BJs from interns.

Just wondering:

That post was to dc Matthews. I didn't say I won't discuss the thread topic.

Fairfax Voter:

If we can't even agree on this one "shred" of evidence, what's the use trying to convince you? Any case before a jury is built one brick at a time. Have you reviewed the Daniel Pipes link?

Terry (and VB in case you did not know):

The words "Our Lord" are indeed found in the U.S. Constitution, referring to none other than Jesus Christ. Look right there after Article VII.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Margarita L:

Try convincing msw13 of that.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

"Nothing personal, but during WWII, would we have elected a Japanese-American as President.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 9:43 AM"

JakeD, take a good long look at your argument above and if you have half a brain you'll see that it is illogical.

Posted by: Spock | June 13, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse


I am assuming, for the purposes of said hypothetical that "we" were of voting age in 1942. Other than that, you will have to specify what exactly is illogical.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

It does not matter if it is true or not. What matters is to get the story out there so it can take on a life of it's own.

Posted by: 1ahead | June 13, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

You say you are all about lies, what about when a vice president lies, says that someone is in bed with a terrorist group as a pretext to go to war and it turns out to be a lie? What about when a president says he will fire whoever leaked the secret identity of a CIA agent and then does not do it?

Posted by: Alex35332 | June 13, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Listen, if you take faith seriously, it's a choice, not a word written on a document. To become a Muslim, a person has to declare himself a Muslim, just like Baptists have to accept Christ, as do Catholics, who also have to complete confirmation.

This is not only a false attack, but an attack which diminishes faith in all its forms.

Posted by: nitpicker | June 13, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

The real significance is not merely the swift boating style of the Republican propagandists but the fact that 21st American culture is imbued with anti-Arab and anti-Muslim, racists sentiments--a dehumanized sentiment that causes people to fear and loath anything connected with Arabs or Muslims, much as 20th Century German culture was imbued with anti-Semitism and 19th Century America, especially in the Jim Crow South, was imbued with anti-African American racism. This is the reason propagandists like Pipes & Brown continue to circulate the "Obama is a Muslim" canard and continue to stress his middle name--Hussein, as if these have any relevance to our decision whether to elect a man who is in every sense the intellectual and moral superior of his Republican opponent.

Posted by: cann4ing | June 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"It is a fact that Sen. Obama has the Marxist, murdering revelutionist, Che Guevara on the wall in his Chicago campaign headquarters."

No, it's not a fact.

Posted by: nitpicker | June 13, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse


Obama wrote a book in 1995, long before he was in a presidential race, that details these early years in Indonesia (and Hawaii and Chicago, until he was ~26 years old). The impetus for the book was his election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. The book is an examination of race, and how it has affected him and how it affects others in America.

You comment "There should be a way of checking (he should be asked specific questions and he should provide specific, not general or vague, answers) what church he attended or what his religion was before he joined the Trinity church." - This book spends many chapters on exactly these issues.

On, the book is less than 9 bucks - "Dreams from my father: A story of Race and Hope".

Though not a long-time Obama supporter, I found the book fascinating, extremely well-written, and a worthwhile read even if Obama was not running for president.

Also - please consider at least the possibility that you are being misled about a 'cover-up'. There is an Indonesian School record that lists 6-year-old Obama as a Muslim. He says that he was never a Muslim. The fact that he disagrees with an old school record is NOT a cover-up. There is NO evidence that Barack has ever lied about this, or misled people about it, or denied that the record exists - he disagrees with the old school record.

The people who are being paid millions of dollars to get you to question Obama's patriotism have certainly read the book - they ignored all the information in there that clearly indicates Obama was never a Muslim ( because they aren't interested in truth, they are being paid to mislead you).

Also, Jake D - did you make it? Did your head go right through the cinder block wall? After all, - I'm just saying - you'll never know FOR SURE until you try.
Also, why are covering up that John McCain is a secret zombie who died while a prisoner of war and was zombified by our enemies for exactly this purpose? Has he ever specifically denied that he is a zombie? If not, why do you think he keeps lying about this. You do agree that if he is a zombie, that is relevant to the election, don't you?

Posted by: msw13 | June 13, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I am no expert, but as I understand Islam one is Muslim if one's father is Muslim. Only Muslim children are given the name Hussein. Of course, one can later make the decision to become a Christian, as Obama claims to have done at Trinity Church.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Have you seen him in person? I have and that is one rumor I am inclined to believe.

Also, why are covering up that John McCain is a secret zombie who died while a prisoner of war and was zombified by our enemies for exactly this purpose? Has he ever specifically denied that he is a zombie? If not, why do you think he keeps lying about this. You do agree that if he is a zombie, that is relevant to the election, don't you?
Posted by: msw13 | June 13, 2008 1:57 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, time for the links, already... God, you do latch on something completely useless to avoid having to prop up your candidate, McCain.

Posted by: 2008 | June 13, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse


I will be happy to address all of those questions just as soon as The Fact Checker posts your "Is McCain a Zombie" thread.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Where is our smear machine? I think that when they smear Obama that we should come right back with a real zinger!! But the difference between us and them is that our zinger will be true while their's is manufactured. Lets start with the many people that were POWs with McCain who say that he was a collaberator and received much better treatment thet the others. Lets talk about him picking up his wife Cindy in a bar in Hawaii and carrying on an affair with her and then he dumped his crippled wife { she was injured in a car accident} and kids.Or maybe we should bring up his involvment in the savings and loan scandal and his connection to Keating ,who went to jail. This is a guy who's whole background is ridden with scandal.He is a phoney who believes his own hype.He has cheated all the way to the top!!

Posted by: Donna | June 13, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

The issue is not that he was a Muslim or was raised a Muslim, the fact that he was indeed registered at his school as a Muslim is documented. The fact that he was and for some reason claims that he wasn't is the disturbing issue. Why doesn't he just set the record straight? He was raised as a Muslim and then as an adult turned to Christianity. End of story. His religion (or lack thereof) shouldn't have any bearing on his ability to preside over the country, right?
Everyone is focusing on his race or religion. No one seems to notice the fact that this guy has no track record! Nobody knows for sure who he is or what he really stands for! I mean seriously, who gets elected to a public office and then thumbs his nose at all of the people that elected him by voting "Present" on almost every issue that comes up? Obama did that during his few years of serving in public office. How does that define him as the "Candidate for Change"? Voting "Present" basically says, "I am here, but I don't want to have any effect on anything." Also, he has no military experience at all, how is he qualified to be the "Commander In Chief" of our armed forces?
People who think that the "War On Terror" should be ended because it seems unfocused and is costing American lives and massive resources should also consider the "War On Drugs" or the "War On Crime" both of which have gone on far longer and cost far more! should we stop them as well? No! Because the opposing forces will not stop, and we cannot throw up our hands in surrender!
People in other countries have always hated Americans because they are jealous of the freedoms that we have, not because we "meddle" in other countries affairs. During the beginning of World War Two they were mad at us for staying out of it because WE thought it wasn't our business! This world has been made smaller than ever by global information and communication, and by affordable high-speed travel. With the combining of global markets and the increase of global trade, our economy and the stability of our country can be directly influenced by instability in other parts of the world. Because of this, we have endeavored to assist with stabilization in those regions. More often than not, it is humanitarian aid in the form of Food and Medical supplies, but armed troops are also needed at times when human lives are at risk from those who would do evil to them. If we do not want to offend anyone, we can withdraw all of our troops and humanitarian aid back to within our borders, but then we will be villianized for NOT helping once again.
In conclusion, I would suggest that everyone stop focusing on whether a candidate was a particular Religion or a mediocre student when they were young, and try to find out what kind of a man they are right now when it is relative. There is no one who can claim that they have made no mistakes in their past! It is only important that they have learned and from them so as to not repeat them.

Posted by: Citizen | June 13, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Amazing how we've allowed hate into our lives. It's clear that Obama received a secular upbringing - which BTW explains how he could be so tone deaf to Rev. Wright's extremism. He thinks of religion and church as a choice comprised of many factors including fellowship as well as faith, and NOT as something that defines him. That's a GOOD thing.

But the main point: Does anyone remember President Bush after 9/11 repeatedly stating how many Muslims are loyal Americans and that just being associated with Islam in some way doesn't make anyone a terrorist? I do! Let's resurrect some of THOSE videos.

The idea that Obama's being peripherally exposed to Islamic culture as a child somehow makes him unfit to hold office is patently absurd. Even if he WERE actually a practicing Muslim, it wouldn't impact his fitness for public office.

Posted by: Martimr1 | June 13, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

The Daniel Pipes article (linked above) contains a dozen links and can be translated into 12 languages.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Maybe fact checker should do one on McCain's apparent flip-flop on social security privatization.

Oh, I know its an issue, JakeD, not some "look into the scary black man" story, but it is important to a lot of older americans - those that don't tool around in their wife's private jet.

Posted by: 2008 | June 13, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse


If he's LYING about that, though, that's still not relevant to you?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

The New York Times did a series of articles about this discussing the opinions of leading scholars who are and others who have studied Islam. They agreed that Obama would not have been considered Muslim. And Obama's biological father left the family when he was very young anyway. The school records you're talking about related to his stepfather, not his father. And whether other Muslims consider him Muslim is actually not important - what's at issue is whether he considered himself a Muslim and is now lying about it. His book has made clear that he never did consider himself Muslim.

Posted by: JG | June 13, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

'Infamous' Willie Horton ad? Only to Democrats and the mainstream media, if there's not too much redundancy there. Liberals screamed and tried to change the subject from Dukakis' callous defense of an absolutely idiotic furlough program to the familiar charges of 'racism' -as if the GOP wouldn't have attacked Dukakis if Horton had been 'white'. The public got the message - Dukakis really was soft on crime and punishment issues, and the case called into question the quality of the judges he might appoint to the federal bench. Bill Clinton also got the message. Four years after 'Willie Horton', he flew to Arkansas to supervise the execution of Ricky Ray Rector, a retarded killer - an act far more cynical than the GOP's actions re Willie Horton, but which I have yet to see referred to as an 'infamous' moment by the orthodox functionaries in the mainstream media.

Some people neecd to get over 'Willie Horton' if they are really interested in accurate journalism instead of mind-numbing liberal sock-puppetry. The ad was accurate and well within the Democratic Party's own ethical standards of campaigning. Only bleeding-heart liberals get upset about the Horton ad or call it 'infamous'. It's depressing to see how strong the corruption of journalism by partisan framing and narratives remains.

Posted by: Mark Richard | June 13, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

(From Daniel Pipes)

As Barack Obama's candidacy comes under increasing scrutiny, his account of his religious upbringing deserves careful attention for what it tells us about the candidate's integrity.

Obama asserted in December, "I've always been a Christian," and he has adamantly denied ever having been a Muslim. "The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country [Kenya]. But I've never practiced Islam." In February, he claimed: "I have never been a Muslim. ... other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for 4 years when I was a child [Indonesia, 1967-71] I have very little connection to the Islamic religion."

"Always" and "never" leave little room for equivocation. But many biographical facts, culled mainly from the American press, suggest that, when growing up, the Democratic candidate for president both saw himself and was seen as a Muslim.

Obama's Kenyan birth father: In Islam, religion passes from the father to the child. Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. (1936-1982) was a Muslim who named his boy Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Only Muslim children are named "Hussein".

Obama's Indonesian family: His stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was also a Muslim. In fact, as Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng explained to Jodi Kantor of the New York Times: "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim." An Indonesian publication, the Banjarmasin Post reports a former classmate, Rony Amir, recalling that "All the relatives of Barry's father were very devout Muslims."

The Catholic school: Nedra Pickler of the Associated Press reports that "documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim" while at a Catholic school during first through third grades. Kim Barker of the Chicago Tribune confirms that Obama was "listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school." A blogger who goes by "An American Expat in Southeast Asia" found that "Barack Hussein Obama was registered under the name 'Barry Soetoro' serial number 203 and entered the Franciscan Asisi Primary School on 1 January 1968 and sat in class 1B. ... Barry's religion was listed as Islam."

The public school: Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times learned from Indonesians familiar with Obama when he lived in Jakarta that he "was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended." Haroon Siddiqui of the Toronto Star visited the Jakarta public school Obama attended and found that "Three of his teachers have said he was enrolled as a Muslim." Although Siddiqui cautions that "With the school records missing, eaten by bugs, one has to rely on people's shifting memories," he cites only one retired teacher, Tine Hahiyari, retracting her earlier certainty about Obama's being registered as a Muslim.

Koran class: In his autobiography, Dreams of My Father, Obama relates how he got into trouble for making faces during Koranic studies, thereby revealing he was a Muslim, for Indonesian students in his day attended religious classes according to their faith. Indeed, Obama still retains knowledge from that class: Nicholas D. Kristof of the New York Times, reports that Obama "recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them [to Kristof] with a first-rate accent."

Mosque attendance: Obama's half-sister recalled that the family attended the mosque "for big communal events." Watson learned from childhood friends that "Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque." Barker found that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." One Indonesia friend, Zulfin Adi, states that Obama "was Muslim. He went to the mosque. I remember him wearing a sarong" (a garment associated with Muslims).

Piety: Obama himself says that while living in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he "didn't practice [Islam]," implicitly acknowledging a Muslim identity. Indonesians differ in their memories of him. One, Rony Amir, describes Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."

Obama's having been born and raised a Muslim and having left the faith to become a Christian make him neither more nor less qualified to become president of the United States. But if he was born and raised a Muslim and is now hiding that fact, this points to a major deceit, a fundamental misrepresentation about himself that has profound implications about his character and his suitability as president.


Apr. 29, 2008 update: This article builds on two prior ones on the matter of Barack Obama and Islam. First, "Was Barack Obama a Muslim?" considered the implications of his Muslim childhood; second, "Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam" responded to a critique of the first article. This third one brings the evidence together in a single place.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Good point, Mark Richard. Where is everyone now claiming that Michael Dobbs was "in the tank" for McCain?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse


What else would you expect from the "New York Times"? They wouldn't publish anything from conservative Muslim scholars who would consider Barack HUSSEIN Obama to have been born and raised Muslim.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Jake: if there were any evidence that he's lying, then that would matter a little bit to me. But not much. Think of it this way: in 1940 in this country, was it a character flaw in people who were 1/16 African in ancestry to "lie" and call themselves white to avoid being barred from full participation in American society? I don't think so. They were guilty of a tiny, harmless distortion of the truth that was necessary for them because of a huge injustice committed by others.

Obama has been remarkably open about his life. There's no reason to think that he's even trying to shade the truth. But if he were doing so, it would be BECAUSE of paranoid nutcases like you, Jake, and not because of any actual guilt.

Posted by: Martimr1 | June 13, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! So, if he is lying about being a secret Muslim, that shouldn't concern any "non-racist" huh? That wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on his decisions as Commander in Chief during a war on terrorists? Maybe if we take it outside the context of this political contest. Please see my hypothetical question above re: electing a [Republican] Japanese-American during WWII.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Wow, JakeD has completely lost it.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Just to make clear, as I already posted above, if he were an OPENLY practicing Muslim, that would not impact his fitness for office with me.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Another honest question (as I said I am no Islamic scholar): do Muslims believe in reincarnation? If so, that would make "Was Obama EVER a Muslim?" even more significant.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse


I am assuming, for the purposes of said hypothetical that "we" were of voting age in 1942. Other than that, you will have to specify what exactly is illogical.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 1:30 PM"


OK JakeD, you kindergartner, you are making a comparison that doesn't add up, you are comparing a Race and Nationalism (Japanese) to an alleged religious practice (Islam).

I don't know how or why you spend so much time in this forum making these idiotic arguments. You are just making your party and others of your ilk look worse and worse every day.

Don't you know it is people like you that are helping fuel this thirst for change? People have wised up over the past 7 years and are flat out tired and insulted by these Rovian tactics, you are a dying breed my friend, at least until the pendulum swings back again.

Posted by: Spock | June 13, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

3 Pinocchios? You should be fired. I can't even believe you would give this ad free coverage.

Mr Dobbs your bias is clear. You are a joke of a reporter and should be replaced.

Posted by: Julian | June 13, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

What is "df"?

P.S. to Spock: I did not know that, especially since I am registered Independent.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

The wapo is a joke for not banning Jake D. America continues have irresponsible lazy media. Thanks for helping lie us into war.

Posted by: Julian | June 13, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

McCain's policies help fan the flames of radical Islam while Obama is accused of possibly being muslim when he was six.

Bush/McCain have created more radical Islamic terrorists than we can kill.

Who do you think has the most dangerous radical islamic ties?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I read just far enough in this thread to see that JakeD is infesting your comments section. He (or someone similarly afflicted and having the same user name) is the reason I quit reading comments on Think Progress. I urge all readers of comments on any site to ignore JakeD's comments. Reacting or responding to them only helps him hijack the thread.

Posted by: Lynn Lightfoot | June 13, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

"P.S. to Spock: I did not know that, especially since I am registered Independent.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:22 PM"

I don't recall naming your political party, just your mind-set.

Learn to read and comprehend, moron.

Posted by: Spock | June 13, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse


Now even DEBUNKING "lies" about Obama is being "in the tank" for McCain?!

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

OBama will be presdent of united of state of america like or not ;)

Posted by: proud to be muslim | June 13, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse


"You are making your party ..."

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse


"You are making your party ..."

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 3:49 PM"

Yes, JakeD, which ever one that may be.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Show me any polling data that the Independent Party has high negatives.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Great suggestion to ignore a fanatic poster that I won't name again. I would like to point out for anyone who has misread my earlier comment that I didn't use the word "racist" anywhere.

Also, I did look up some facts about Japanese Americans during WWII, just to refresh my memory. The facts definitely don't support guilt-by-association.

Posted by: Martimr1 | June 13, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

That's fine, Martimr1, as you are under no obligation to answer simple, honest questions.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Grand Old Pharts using Religion to divide us?
I'm truly in shock.

Posted by: Vincent | June 13, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

This is about LYING, not religion.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I hate all them godless nigra muslims like Obama. They is trying to ruin America and take it away from the God fearing Christian White People.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

How old was he when he went too that school. He was six years old. At that age you don't see your paper work and you have no idea what your parents are. I think it is time too stop trying to label this man as a muslim. I can guarantee that most people don't even know what it means to be a muslim. Are you aware that there are muslimms and moslims. Do you know the difference. I think we have been brain washed into thinking something about a religion that isn't so. Let's grow up America and not fall for the same old mess again.

Posted by: bridgette | June 13, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Why should you ask this Q again and again, People should decide them self. When you born what were your religion? You got the religion from your father not mother period. Google it for Obama's parental history everything is there. As far as I remember his great grandfather converted to Islam. Moreover its Obama's wording that Rev, Wright introduces him to Christianity. Therefore nobody should doubt about his faith/religion now

Posted by: SudhirPrannath | June 13, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Rev. Wright used to be a Muslim too.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

I have gotten to the point where I check the name of the person making the comment. If it is Jake D, I don't read it.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Hm... I'm NOT JakeD, but I can post as him? I think there is a small problem with this forum...

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

What kind of bad muslim sends their son to catholic school. As a catholic myself I would never send my son to Catholic school they do brainwash kids with the bible.

So if anything Obama's muslim step father was trying to brainwash his son catholic I guess in hopes he would some day join a radical christian church and then create some black Legion of Doom when he becomes president.

If that is the case then Obama's step father was a diabolical genius.

Posted by: Patrick | June 13, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse


Good point.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"...Barring fresh revelations, the Obama campaign's explanation for the "Muslim" annotation beside Barack's name in the Catholic school ledger seems reasonable. Three Pinocchios for Floyd Brown."

Not so fast Michael Dodds! How many children have you personally enrolled in a school system? I'm guessing none! School registration requires a birth certificate...not a statement of birth like the one Barry put up on his website...but an actual birth certificate that denotes religion. That would be the likely source behind the "Muslim" annotation by his name and NOT because his step father happened to be Muslim (let's not forget that his biological father was still alive at the time). Why not ask the obama campaign to put a proper end to this religion business once and for all by posting his actual birth certificate.

Posted by: Ijane | June 13, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

If a person attends a Catholic church as a child, does that make him a Catholic even though now he is a Baptist minister. Because a pit bull dog sucked on a female beagle, does that make the pit bull dog a beagle. Who ever this Floyd Brown is, needs to check his credentials and his education to make sure that he is not an Illegal Immigrant from the southern hills of Mexico. But then again, I suppose that the Republican Party is getting desperate because their candidate can only attract about three hundred folks at a time to listen to his speeches. What a pile of manure, the Republican Party has to drag around to throw at Sen. Obama. But I am waiting to see what this so called ad-man knows about the issues that are more important. I have a clear picture of Sen. Obama's past. It's Sen. McCain that I know nothing about, other than that he spent his years in North Vietnam in a cage. And that his father and grandfather were both in the military.
I don't care about the past. I care about the issues that are taking place now and that need to be met with now, so that the people of the United States can proceed to live as they have lived in the past without having to worry if they will have enough money to take care of the gasoline for the cars. If they are going to have enough left over for food, after they pay their utility bills.
Knowing full well that we are going thorugh this gas crunch at this time. President Bush decides to go joyriding to Europe and then come back to use, the gas guzzling limousines when they should be driving economy cars that don't use so much gasoline.
Give us a break!!!Park those limousines and travel by smaller light air force jets.

Posted by: richardcolonel | June 13, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

so if you go to catholic church for years and sign in, you can later say you were never catholic?


Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

If you truly believe this is a "Smear" campaign, then YOU are saying that it is a bad thing to be Muslim! Otherwise, so what? Why the big deal? Who cares what religion he was reared in? In fact, what does his current religion matter? You might say growing up in a Muslim household could give someone a better perspective on why they hate us so much and help to bridge the gap in communication between us all. Why would he lie to cover it up? That is the odd thing.

Who IS this Obama? Where did he come from? What does he REALLY stand for?

Not all "Change" is for the better!

Posted by: Citizen | June 13, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse


You are complaining because the President of the United States didn't fly to Europe on a smaller jet? That's really going to solve global warming?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse


Good points.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

From the Koran:

We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Moreover Allah says of those who reject him. Because, Allah has already sentenced them to death.

Hmm... Why wouldn't he want to be associated with this "Peaceful Religion"?

Posted by: Mohammed | June 13, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

FWIW: the Old Testament is pretty harsh too ; )

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I encourage all Democrats to follow the example of your great leader Obama. When you get into that voting booth in November, just vote "Present"!

Posted by: Citizen | June 13, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

I have no problem if Obama was once a muslim,jew or agnostic.But it bothers me if he lied for political expediancy.

Posted by: S | June 13, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

JakeD- The article says Pipes lied and Obama is telling the truth, but you keep saying it is Obama who is lying. You ability to twist the truth to suit your point of view is breathtaking.

Posted by: bgjd1979 | June 13, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

First of all, The Fact Checker does NOT say Pipes lied. The farthest is an unsubstantiated claim that the evidence is not fairly weighed. The Fact Checker doesn't even answer the question: Was Barack HUSSEIN Obama Ever a Muslim?"

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

This crap, in the tradition of Karl Rove, Lee Atwater, and Roy Cohn, is aimed squarely at the dolts among us.

Posted by: Joe | June 13, 2008 7:02 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't take a "dolt" to realize the enormous pitfall facing America if Barack Hussein Obama is lying about this.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

"I encourage all Democrats to follow the example of your great leader Obama. When you get into that voting booth in November, just vote "Present"!

Posted by: Citizen | June 13, 2008 6:06 PM"

BTW John McCain is ranked as missing more votes than anybody in the senate.

Chust a litl' tidbit for ya'

Posted by: JR | June 13, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps he never has considered himself Muslim. I went to Catholic day-school u never considered myself a Catholic.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

"It doesn't take a "dolt" to realize the enormous pitfall facing America if Barack Hussein Obama is lying about this.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 7:14 PM"
Since you seem to be so persistent on this topic why don't you lay out for us simpletons exactly what horrible consequences would befall us?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

People have a right to know more about Obama. When you think about it, the only things we know about Obama are what Obama has told us in his books. He is fighting hard to fend off all questions about him and, unfortunately, so far it is working. He has told us everything he wants us to know and gets indignant when people want to know more. People have a right to know more, but he has put himself on the offensive to get people to back off.

Posted by: Michael | June 13, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Well, worse case scenario, a deep cover secret Muslim agent accessing the Presidency is probably nuclear detonations over American cities killing a couple hundred million. You think that's an acceptable risk?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

I never said that Obama "Missed Votes". It is a verified FACT that even though he was at a voting session, rather than showing his stance on an issue, he opted to vote neither for or against it. He just voted "Present" most of the time.

So... we know that he tries to cover up details about his upbringing and during his very brief stint in public office, he refuses to stand for or against anything.

Seriously! Who IS this Obama guy really?

Posted by: Citizen | June 13, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

And how do you think he would accomplish this JakeD?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous wants to know how the President launches nukes?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, I think you have been watching 24 for too long now. Do you really believe any POTUS has the authority and the capability to redirect our nuclear missiles and then order our military to explode them over the U.S. populace?

Do you really think that any General or other military official would go along with this?

Your paranoid fantasies are wayyyyy off the map. Get a grip dude.

Posted by: OBL | June 13, 2008 7:50 PM | Report abuse

My fear is that McCain might "FORGET" who the enemy is and launch some missiles by mistake on us.

Posted by: PL | June 13, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Hey JakeD, don't look now but there is a terrorist hiding under your bed.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Hawaiian PUNCH! WOMEN voters now supporting McCain will desert him in DROVES, once they learn all the disgusting details of how he treated his FIRST WIFE & his CHILDREN, which is even worse, by chasing after every RICH, well-heeled WOMAN he could find after returning from Vietnam!

His FIRST WIFE, CAROL, having had a serious car accident, had life-changing INJURIES WORSE than John McCain received in Vietnam as a POW-- and, HE LEFT HER!. For a Rich BEER Co. Heiress he met in a HAWAIIAN BAR, out "tomcatting", CHEATING on his wife, who waited for him on the HOMEFRONT, for him to come home from VIETNAM. WHAT A SLEAZY THING!

Seems to me, when you get MARRIED in a CHRISTIAN Church, whether Baptist OR Episcopalian, there are words in the VOW you make, about "for richer or poorer, in SICKENESS & in health, 'til death do us part."! Well, John McCain wanted a YOUNGER (25 yrs. younger) SEXY, NEW "TROPHY WIFE", & most of all, she & her FAMILY had to be super RICH & have CONNECTIONS politically, & CINDY & her DADDY fit the bill!

I wonder what kind of children's book about her "Daddy" John McCain, any of the children from his FIRST marriage would write? I'm guessing it wouldn't be as GLOWING as the 23 yr. old daughter MEGHAN's new book, to be released in September, obviously for his POLITICAL campaign!

And "Feminists" who say they'll vote for McCain, because HILLARY didn't win? WOWWY, they won't like what they learn about how John McCain REALLY treats WOMEN, when it COUNTS-- when she is his own WIFE!

So there, those of you smearing Obama. These are actual FACTS, which McCain has admitted to, while OBAMA has a traditional, "family values" lovely Marriage & two lovely children!

Posted by: AtomicWarBaby | June 13, 2008 7:56 PM | Report abuse

AtomicWarBaby: What do your facts have to do with the topic of this thread?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

"Only Muslim children are given the name Hussein. " Jake the deluded.


Hussein is an arabic name and not all arabs are muslims. If you take the time to travel to Egypt or other places on the African continent, you will find many non muslims named Hussein. I have a very good friend in Cairo who is a Coptic Christian and his name is Hussein

The fact is that if you are a muslim, then you pray 5 times a day to allah, you do not work on Friday, and you take pride in your faith.

Barack Hussein Obama takes pride in his Christian faith. How someone was registered by his stepfather 40 years ago does not mean anything. If Barack was a muslim he would have continued observing the faith when he went to Hawaii- or maybe he was a counter intelligence spook by the time he was 11 years old-

Let's fact check whether
John McCain is the Vietnamese version of the Manchurian Candidate. That would make more sense to me. After all he was a brainwashed and broken man after his six year stay at the Hanoi Hilton.

Now McSame will apparently say anything to become President. What happened to the "Maverick?"

Not this time.

Posted by: Jonas | June 13, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Yay! Now I'm an anonymous fearmongering troll, too! Keep feeding me--I've got ludicrous answers to every one of your sensible questions!

Come on! Keep arguing with me! It's SO productive! It accomplishes SO much!

It's not as though I post here JUST to rile you up. Purely out of the goodness of my heart and the freeness of my calendar, I am here to enlighten your feeble minds with my valuable insight.


It's so dark and lonely here in Mom's basement.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Has Anonymous ever seen the movie "Wargames" where a much worse disaster was narrowly averted by an innocent teenager just trying to play a computer game?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmm, Jonas, good point. You know it is likely that McCain is a Vietnamese manchurian candidate, I mean while he was in captivity he was brainwashed enough to speak out against his fellow countrymen and soldiers. Furthermore why did he REALLY not want to leave?, perhaps he wanted his "buddies" (code for secret Vietnamese revenge freaks) to come back with him to help plot his 35 year ascent to power, I mean, he DID vote against the veteran's benefits package, doesn't that indicate that he wants to weaken the military so his vietnamese captors could eventually take over and drop napalm on the American populice?

Posted by: Chairman Mao | June 13, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Wow. I haven't gotten this much attention since I was the barber on "The Andy Griffith Show."

Posted by: Floyd Brown | June 13, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

"Well, worse case scenario, a deep cover secret Muslim agent accessing the Presidency is probably nuclear detonations over American cities killing a couple hundred million. You think that's an acceptable risk?"

JakeD, how do we know for sure that you're not a secret Muslim agent posting from Indonesia with orders to pit American against American as a prelude to war?

We don't, of course. But there's plenty of evidence that could implicate you. It's a fact that you frequent comment boards and post inflammatory comments. It's a fact that you made references to Jesus Christ, who is considered by Muslims to be a prophet. It's a fact that you don't read Yiddish -- as no good Muslim would. And it's a fact that you capitalize Hussein in every reference to Barack Obama -- clearly a sign of reverence for a Muslim name.

And it's a fact that Obama was registered as a Muslim, which is, of course, sufficient evidence to suspect him of being a "secret Muslim." But I'll bet you'll come up with a bunch of reasons why all of the evidence I cite showing that you could be a secret Muslim agent intent on destroying the country is ludicrous.

Posted by: Spy versus spy | June 13, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

"Has Anonymous ever seen the movie "Wargames" where a much worse disaster was narrowly averted by an innocent teenager just trying to play a computer game?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 8:01 PM"
Yes I have and I think Mathew Broderick is a secret muslim operative too.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

McCain claims to be a Baptist, but he's never actually been baptized in his church.

Posted by: Jay | June 13, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

WORST Scenario: is a "deep-cover" far right fundamentalist SETTLER extremist in ISRAEL secretly getting control of Israel's NUCLEAR, CHEMICAL, & BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS Program, & kiddies, they are armed to the TEETH, swimming in the best HIGH TECH, the NEWEST Weapons Arsenal, thanks in large part to Amerika's sending them BILLIONS & BILLIONS in "AID" over several DECADES! You thought 9/11 was scary, imagine the APOCOLYPTIC NIGHTMARE that ISRAELI extremists in covert working with all the crazy wingnut right-wing CHRISTIAN fundamentalist EVANGELICALS which the BUSH Regime has liberally seeded our MILITARY's & Pentagon's HIGHEST RANKS, could UNLEASH on the Middle East, in a "PRE-Emptive" Strike, which WOULD escalate beyond their control, our control, or ANYONE's control!

The NEXT World War, would then be fought with stones, over the radioactive scraps "LEFT BEHIND" thanks to Bush's "Rev. Hagee" right-wing core base!

BARACK OBAMA for President, thank you!

Posted by: AtomicWarBaby | June 13, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it was Matthew Broderick's character who nearly caused a nuclear war in the first place, by hacking into the military computer and activating what he thought was a game.

Posted by: Jay | June 13, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

"Has Anonymous ever seen the movie "Wargames" where a much worse disaster was narrowly averted by an innocent teenager just trying to play a computer game?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 8:01 PM"
Ahh the mixing of fact with fiction the favorite ritual of the republicans.

You really ought to switch parties JakeD, they need your intellectual powers and you fit the mold so well.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for the off-topic unless JakeD wants to accredit this to Obama.

Good thing we are spending so much of our resources in Iraq while the real enemy is escaping us in Afghanistan.

Another Bush/McCain national security blunder.

Posted by: Off-topic but important | June 13, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

It is amazing to see that so many ppl are filled with such fear....If anyone notices on McBush's team he has a white man, pudgy, young man, but if you truly look at him when he is on tv and you look into that man's eyes....You can literally see the hate there....The other day he was on CNN with a supporter from Obama's Campaign, (black), and you could see the reddness and the anger in his face.....My question to ppl such as him and ppl like him.....WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF? WHY THE ANGER? DO YOU FEEL THAT YOUR SUPERIORITY IS SLIPPING? AND WHO SAID WHITE WAS SUPERIOR TO BEGIN WITH? is truly amazing to see closet biggots having to maintain themselves in public.....What a sad way to live!!!

Posted by: BUZZARD'S KORNER | June 13, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

When I think of lies I think of those that caused America to invade Iraq and cause thousands if not millions of deaths and life-long debilitating injuries. There were a few lies involved with the Iran Contra Affair and Watergate too, as I recall.

Posted by: BJ | June 13, 2008 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Floyd Brown is a parasite. His whole existence depends on sucking blood. He should try being president or leader of his fellow local mechanics or something original. Also: he should be exposed in the media himself -- all his drug problems, incestuous relations with relatives, etc...

Posted by: Jack Jackson | June 13, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

cluck all you want, we know:
a. barrack will be elected, and
b. cheneyrovemonster will probably try to assassinate him

Posted by: e | June 13, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

But what does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say about all this?

Posted by: Loadmaster | June 13, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for this article. I wish, though, that you had provided more detail regarding your sources. I have, for instance, heard several different descriptions of how many years Obama spent in each of the two schools he attended and what sort of religious instruction he had in each.

I trust you more than the other sources I've seen (and certainly more than Floyd Brown), but I'd like to be able to share this piece with others. Without documentation for some of those details, it may be difficult to persuade a person who doubts the truth of what Obama has said about himself.

Hope you'll be able to update this piece w/ some of that info.

Posted by: THS | June 13, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

I knew this story wouldn't get four Pinocchios. As far as Dobbs sees it, any slander against a black man or blacks in general must have a shred of truth in it.

Fact checker, my a$$.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 13, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

How do we not know that Jake D isn't secretly sad, attention-seeking, and lonely?

Because he makes it obvious to all of us by the amount of time he spends trolling this forum.

Posted by: lolerloler | June 13, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

To Fact Checker:
Gee thanks for clearing this issue up. If it weren't for your superlative powers of analysis I would have been totally snowed by Floyd Brown....Oh wait...No I wouldn't, you legitimize this controversy, you give this story legs by even addressing it.

If this wasn't your obvious motivation you wouldn't have provide a link to a "more sophisticated", "more detailed, variant of the 'Obama was a Moslem' argument" What? You thought it would be useful to direct your readers to even more elaborately stacked trash?

Just more evidence that you are a Republican lackey...What's next? Are you going to tell us that "Barring fresh revelations" there is no evidence that Obama is going to take the oath of office in Arabic while praising Satan and burning an American flag? Really please do. I don't know if I could reason it out without your help....

Posted by: Oh great.. | June 13, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps this could be laid to rest if someone were to talk with neighbors of the Obama's both in Indonesia and in Hawaii to ask whether Obama actually practiced Islam, and whether his childhood friends practiced Islam with him. And what about his wife's family - what do they know? Surely these folks would know. It is amazing that long-time reporters have not made a serious effort to find out the real facts. They certainly know how, when they want to.

Posted by: Lesley | June 13, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

I still remember going to catholic church at age 6,7,8,9,.... I remember what priests thought me then, and no one tell me, that because Obama was 6 or 8, this does not influence His mentality. Especjally in Young age, we fallow more, then when we older. His mine was mined of muslim, and later He turn to be a "CHristian", but I just dont see in Him any Christian MAN and His believs for 20 years have nothing to do with Christianity So. if someone tell me , that I am wrong, than my answer is NO NOT at all. He pretends to be Christian for one reason ONLY, and we know that were well

Posted by: Mandi08 | June 13, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, to some extent Mr. Hobbs ends up perpetuating this smear by debunking it. And it's a lot easier to start and spread a smear than it is to stop it -- which is what Republican strategists have been counting on for decades. And it's incredibly easy to make things up, for example, that someone/anyone posting on this forum is really the son of an illicit liaison between Ralph Nader and Janet Reno who was put up for a private adoption at birth. (You know who you are -- I'm not going to identify you in public, but you should admit it on your own.)

This is an attack that had died down largely when it lost traction, in large part due to the greater "attraction" of castigating Obama on the grounds that he has been a member for more than two decades of a church in the United Church of Christ whose minister has views that a lot of people don't approve of. And even many people of the meanest understanding (and there are a LOT of people, including on this forum, who have pretty mean understandings) see a fundamental inconsistency with being a Moslem and being a Christian.

It's too bad that Mr. Hobbs has chosen to revive this smear, and I have no idea why he did so. At least he included the reference to the Obama debunking site.

Posted by: EdA | June 13, 2008 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Don't you kids get out on a Friday night anymore? We just got back from seeing "The Happening". Jay, trust me when I say don't go see that one. BTW: Matthew Broderick caused, and then averted, near nuclear war.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Whatever!!! However, there was a good and respected old man in Asia who said that the anti-christ was already born in America in the early sixties, after a few years when asked a follow-up question about the anti-Christ in early seventies, he replied that the man grew-up in Asia. It opens so many possibilities... when Bill Clinton was winning during his time, many thought he probably was the Anti-christ but he never lived in Asia so he wasnot. Obama's history is scary... the anti-christ will use God/religion to gain power and he will possess good charm that the wealthy and the learned will support him. Right now he fits the profile.

Posted by: statistician | June 14, 2008 2:04 AM | Report abuse

Oh, JakeD what a pertinent argument. No, in WWII we wouldn't have elected any one with a Japanese surname as President ... because our country in one of its most shameful episodes rounded up all Japanese (including citizens) and placed them in internment camps. Took away their property. Took away years of their lives. And not ONE episode of Japanese-American sabotage or "terrorism" ever recorded. But fear and prejudice ruled. And we must still hang our heads in shame. So, yeah, Jake in your typically cogent way you helped put this issue in perfect context.

Posted by: straight talk my a** | June 14, 2008 4:07 AM | Report abuse

Like Ronald Reagan, Obama seems to have a Teflon shield that prevents the dirt they throw at him from sticking. I know, mudslinging seems to be the American way, but if stuff like Rev. Wright doesn't even work, they might as well give up. What difference does it make what people did in their childhood?

Posted by: bodo | June 14, 2008 7:08 AM | Report abuse

THIS is what makes our choice for President so important this year...a senator who thinks Iran is a "tiny" threat, who has under 2 years of national experience, and who is the choice of Hamas, or a senator who has 25 years of experience at the forefront of National Security...after that, we're arguing over a $700 difference in the size of the annual middle class tax cut:

(from this morning's NY Times)

Iran Rejects Anti-Nuclear Incentives

Published: June 14, 2008
Filed at 4:54 a.m. ET

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Top EU diplomat Javier Solana handed Iran an offer by six major powers of trade and other incentives on Saturday to try to coax it into halting sensitive nuclear work, but Tehran again ruled out any such suspension.

"If the package (from the six powers) includes suspension it is not debatable at all," Iran's government spokesman Gholamhossein Elham told reporters.

"Iran's view is clear: any precondition is unacceptable."

He was speaking shortly after Solana, the European Union's foreign policy chief, presented the incentives package from the United States, China, Russia, France, Britain and Germany to Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki.

The offer, including civilian nuclear cooperation, is a revised version of one rejected by Iran two years ago and diplomats have played down any hopes of a breakthrough in a dispute that has helped push up oil prices to record highs.

The world's fourth-largest crude producer is refusing to stop activities it says are for generating electricity but which the West suspects are aimed at making bombs.

"Mr Solana handed (Mottaki) the letter of six (foreign) ministers and the EU and also the package," Solana's spokeswoman Cristina Gallach told Reuters by telephone. "The conversation continues."

Elham said Iran would review "any offer based on its international rights" and linked it with Tehran's own package of proposals aimed at defusing the row, submitted to the EU and others last month.

Diplomats say Iran's proposals ignored international concerns about its uranium enrichment program, a possible pathway to atom bombs.

Asked when Tehran would respond to the world powers' offer, Elham said: "We don't know when ... we are waiting for their reply to our package."


Seeking to step up the pressure, the United States and the 27-nation EU have threatened more sanctions if the Islamic Republic does not stop enriching uranium, which has both civilian and military uses.

Solana has said he hopes the incentives package will start a new process for resolving the dispute but that he expects no "miracles" during his brief visit to Tehran.

He said on Friday the offer, which he described as "generous," would support Iran in developing a modern nuclear energy program and also covered political and economic ties.

The United States, leading efforts to isolate Iran over its nuclear ambitions, says it wants a diplomatic solution but has not ruled out military action as a last resort.

On a farewell tour of Europe this week, President George W. Bush said a nuclear-armed Iran would be "incredibly dangerous for world peace" and that "all options are on the table," alluding to military action as a last resort.

The incentives package, hammered out by the six major powers in May, is an updated and enhanced version of an offer spurned by Iran in 2006 that also included wider trade in civil aircraft, energy, high technology and agriculture.

Iran's refusal to stop enrichment, which can provide fuel for power plants or material for bombs if refined much more, has drawn three rounds of U.N. sanctions since 2006.

Solana was accompanied by senior officials from the major powers with the exception of the United States, which cut ties with Iran after its 1979 Islamic revolution.

Posted by: Scott | June 14, 2008 7:13 AM | Report abuse

Wow, you guys are really going to have to make a choice. Either he's a Muslim, or he's part of a black extremist church. He can't be both you know. While we're at it, let's start spreading some baseless bs about John McCain, apparantly there are enough morons out there who are susceptible to this stuff:

John McCain is actually a secret communist operative. The VC brainwashed him in that POW camp and he is finally set to take over the country. His objections to the recent SC habeus corpus decision have nothing to do with the war on terror, but it gets in the way of his desire to subject this country to a Stalinist or Maoist form of justice. He also wants to replace the Lincoln memorial with a Lenin memorial.

There you go, a whole lot of nonsense built on a crumb of truth. Should be enough to sway some of the conspiracy nuts out there. Spread the word!

Posted by: Dunbar | June 14, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse


Converting to Christianity would actually be a pefect cover. Think about it Also, the Cold War is over, so your "McCain secret Communist agent" theory, while possible, is not as likely as an agent from the war we are currently engaged in.

straight talk:

Not all Japanese-Americans were interned -- please review your history books where some even served in the military -- also, recall my hypothetical opponent to FDR that year is a Harvard-Law graduate living in Chicago.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

In reviewing the posts charging WaPo with anti-Obama bias by even mentioning this "smear" do you also think the Obama web site is guilty of anti-Obama bias?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

I mean, I guess it's theoretically possible that everyone on the Obama campaign is secretly working for McCain but, again, that's hardly as likely as Barack Hussein Obama being a secret Muslim agent. For one thing, the shear number of people needed to pull off the McCain conspiracy would inevitably lead to a break down, whereas all those with possible knowledge of Obama's secret, with the exception of Osama and himself, are already dead.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

In order to assign a percentage, and attempt to weigh the evidence fairly, I suggest the McCain conspiracy theory as 1% likely and the Obama conspiracy theory as 2% likely. Now, that may not sound like a lot, but consider what Israel would do if it were 2% likely that Iran was within a day of obtaining several working nukes. What would Germany or Japan have done upon learning of the success of our Manhattan project before their own respective endings of WWII?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Should Cindy McCain's Brain Damage Be A Campaign Issue?

I don't know whether Americans care if the First Lady is mentally disabled - that's a question for McCain's pollsters. What I want to know is why McCain would even subject his poor wife to the rigors of a presidential campaign and worldwide scrutiny in the first place. The question speaks directly to McCain's personal cruelty and unbridled ambition.

Although the true extent of the brain damage has not been publicly disclosed, Cindy McCain's 2004 stroke is not a secret.

In a very flattering September 2007 interview in More, Paul Alexander wrote about the stroke damage:

"In conversation, she will occasionally have trouble remembering certain facts, especially from the recent past, and if you look closely you realize she cannot make her right hand into a complete fist, which has affected her handwriting, if not her ability to grasp a gearshift knob. "It's not bad," she says, describing the damage to her hand. "I can function. I have short-term memory loss. I can remember all the major details of my life, but I sometimes can't remember what happened last week."

I suspect that John McCain, viewed his wife's stroke more in terms of how it would affect his bid for the presidency than else.

From a January 2005 Larry King show:

"MCCAIN: I was the one at home that everyone came to to program their computers, fix their phones, do anything electrical, technical, anything on the computer. I can't get near it now. I'm overwhelmed by it.

And it's weird for me. And I might also say, I suffer from migraines also. And your last caller that called in -- and I just had an episode about a week and a half ago, where I didn't know, I thought I was having another stroke. It was a different kind of...

KING: Has the senator been very sympathetic?

MCCAIN: Yes. And I -- please don't -- let me explain that. He was very confused in the beginning. He didn't -- like everyone in the family, how could it happen to my wife? I'm 18 years older than she is. It doesn't happen to someone that's younger than you are. So on his behalf, I think he's trying to understand all this. It's a lot for him to take in."

In October 2007, Cindy McCain was hobbling around South Carolina as the result of a fall down in a Phoenix grocery store. Was her fall caused by her brain damage? Is the question any of our business?

Inevitably, the issue of the extent of Cindy McCain's brain damage will enter the public arena. So far, Mrs McCain has only had to field softballs lobbed at her by sympathetic journalists. Can the McCain campaign limit her public appearances to three-minute soundbites until November? I don' think so, not in today's political environment.

Why, Senator McCain, would you do this to your wife?

Posted by: debrazza | June 14, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

She seemed fine as a co-host on "The View" recently. Barbara Walters, not so good.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

a religous school. Lost in all of this is the fact that Obama DID go to a School affiliated with a Church with Mandatory Chapel and Christian Ethics classes. That would be Punahou, which Sen. Obama attended from Elementary School through High School graduation. Punahou was founded by the Congregationalist Missionairies for the education of their own Children. It has three Chaplins on Staff. It has mandatory Main Stream Protestant Christian Education classes. When ever the Muslim School argument is raised, the fact that Sen. Obama attended for a far greater time a Christian School is ignored.

(The denomination that founded Punahou, the New England Congregationalist Church (the Pilgrims) is now a part of the United Church of Christ).

Posted by: Punahou is | June 14, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"Ignored"?! The entire article above is about the CATHOLIC school he attended.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Jake D wrote:

As for the Japanese-American being elected President during WWII, I was simply making an analogous point. Even controlling for racism, let's say he was a Harvard-Law grad too, it just would not have been good idea to let that person decide whether to drop the A-bomb.

My Comment:

And what was the Ethnic heritage of FDR and Truman and all of the other leaders of the United States during WWII? FDR spoke fluent German. Roosevelt was educated in this language as a youth. In other words he fluently spoke the language of the enemy. (Any evidence that Sen. Obama can read Arabic? I didn't think so....) Roosevelt is a name of Dutch derivation -- and Dutch is a Germanic language. Truman was the Senator from Missouri. Missouri, the State built mostly by German Immigrants and which still has significant Germanic Ties. Did anyone dare question the patriotism of these two? Of course not. (And they both were involved in the decisions about A-Bombs...and were also involved in the decision to fire bomb cities like Dresden -- actions which were just about as deadly as the use of the A-Bomb). Was it a "bad idea" to have them involved in making the decision?

The whole argument about a Japanese-America is an argument based on ignorant prejudice (look Sen. Inoyue in the eye and try to make this argument). And the only reason that Sen. Obama's most tenuous ties to Muslim religion is raised is to appeal to this ignorant prejudice.

Posted by: Lets Look Carefully | June 14, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

From Obama's "resignation" letter to Trinity Church:

Our faith remains strong and we will find another church home for our family. But we also know that faith and prayer are not merely exercises to be discharged for two hours on Sunday. They are and always will be a bulwark for us in our daily lives.

Oh, my Gawd. Is the Lord keeping an eye on this guys karma? Yup. You bet.


He can't even write a sincere letter to the church without inserting something for everyone.

What a showman - what a phony.

I thought this guy was never "present" in the church half the time?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Obama abused drugs while at Punahou.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Let's Look Carefully:

That's why I started with Japan -- you know, the country that attacked us at Pearl Harbor -- don't even get me started with FDR going to war with a completely dufferent country and INVADING North Africa! For Gid's sake, was French Moracco a "threat" to the U.S.?!

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Yes. Ignored. The School that Obama attended in Indonesia may have been run by the Catholic Church, but it was not a Catholic School. In a Catholic School the students ALL receive mandatory Catholic Religious instruction. And yet in this school run by the Catholics the religious instruction was not Catholic. In contrast, at Punahou ALL students received religious instruction and attended Chapel and that instruction was main line protestant.

Posted by: Ignored | June 14, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Darn spellchecker ; )

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse


Please get a life and open a book. You were obviously a C student like Bush. I'm over America being controlled (not that you have control over anything) by stupid people like yourself. Please crawl back in your dark hole and stay. America needs Obama to correct the screw ups of idiots like Bush (and you). We are a nation of intelligent people and Obama is the man to bring us to light.

Posted by: honorgrad | June 14, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

"Obviously"? LOL

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

JakeD needs to be in a special education program. Poor guy is a retard. Hope he get's the help he needs.

Posted by: Luke | June 14, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Luke wrote:

JakeD needs to be in a special education program. Poor guy is a retard. Hope he get's the help he needs.

My comment:

That's not a fair or appropriate comment. It unfairly stigmatizes special needs individuals and uses words which are highly offensive. (In certain communities the r word is as offensive as the n word). Jake D is clearly misguided. He clearly is not well educated and he clearly is not the brightest bulb in the light fixture. And he clearly takes perverse pleasure in saying stupid things in order to get a reaction. But let's not confuse this with special needs.

Posted by: Not Appropriate | June 14, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else want to actually discuss the thread topic: Was Barack Hussein Obama Ever a Muslim?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

It's not unreasonable to question Obama's religious heritage. Even this opinion writer, Edward Luttwak, wrote about it in the NY Times on 5/12/08:

"But it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. Senator Obama is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother's Christian background is irrelevant.

Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.

His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is "irtidad" or "ridda," usually translated from the Arabic as "apostasy," but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim's family may choose to forgive). "

Seems like a rational explanation.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

"Jake D"-
So I was registered as a catholic as a 5 year old. What does it prove?

Posted by: Buddy | June 14, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I suppose you have seen McCain's birth certificate too. Oh, he was born before they started issung one!

Posted by: Buddy | June 14, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"There are indeed 6 year olde brainwashed with nothing but the Koran.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 9:46 AM"

Yeah, right! Especially in a Catholic parochial school. What kind of sense does that make?

Posted by: dkm | June 14, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Jake D wrote:

Anyone else want to actually discuss the thread topic: Was Barack Hussein Obama Ever a Muslim?

My comment:

The problem is that it is a definitional problem. I can always craft a definition in which I can bring anyone into a particular class simply by engaging in a sophistic argument. For example, I hereby declare that I am the high priest of Fixology and that Chris is the profit. I also declare that YOU are a member of our faith as is your brother (who has never posted or even heard of the Fix). Now you may not recognize our faith's existence, but are you a member? By at least one definition, you are a member. And you have heard of our faith? Is your brother a member even though he has never heard of our faith? Yes, under the rule of our faith that any Brother of a member of our faith is a member of our faith.

Using the definition that the son of a Muslim is a Muslim no matter what they decide means that the great great great grandson of a someone who never passed on his faith to his son and so forth would be a "Muslim" -- even if they were the Pope of the Catholic Church. Is that "A" defintion. Sure. Its not a particularly useful definition as it does not have any impact on belief structure and most people believe that religious faith (and the key word here is "faith" depends on an actual belief) and not an accident of birth. Under that definition is Sen. Obama a Muslim? Perhaps. But it is meaningless definition. (And under this definition, what would be the "faith" of someone who was born of a Jewish Mother and a Muslim Father? Again using the irrational definition wherein "faith" is not dependent on belief structure.)

If we use the more "rational" definition, wherein the question is whether or not Sen. Obama ever made a knowing formal commitment to a religious faith (in my Church we call it confirmation), then it is clear that the ONLY faith that Sen. Obama has ever been a member of is Christianity -- the mainline UCC denomination (the same denomination as the New England Congregationalists).

The second question is why is this issue being raised. And the real answer is to try to raise irrational and paranoid fears. In fact, your comment about the Japanese and WWII further reinforces the whole idea that its is an attempt to raise the "yellow peril" fear.

It isn't going to work. Enough Americans are smart enough to disavow this kind of garbage.

Posted by: Definitional Issue | June 14, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Unless it was an error, it proves that you were being raised Catholic. Were you baptized, or confirmed?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Now that they have McSame in tow, the Republican National Committee, i.e., "the administration" is going to be able to feed him securuty alerts. Suddenly, his war mongering will seem prescient, he will be well prepared to fight and etc.

Obama will seem unprepared, slow to grasp the seriousness of The Threat. Suddenly all this muslim/Ayers/Wright stuff will seem relevant. This is inevitable.

This the only possible explanation for McSame moving in behind Bush/Cheny; in exchange, they will give him the only way he can beat Obama, foreknowledge of cultured (prepared)threats to national security.

Obama has to know this is coming.
He better be prepared for it.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 14, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

The anonymous poster quoting Edward Lutwack gets three Pinocchios for failing to mention that Lutwack's analysis has been thoroughly shot down by both Muslim and Christian theologians. Furthermore, Mr. Lutwack himself has a history of putting his mouth in gear with absolutely no connection to a brain at all.

Posted by: dkm | June 14, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Using the "rational" definition, I already admitted it's no more than 2% likely. What more do you want?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps if the Washington Post had not run the infamous Perry Bacon, Jr. front page story on Obama's so-called "Muslim Ties" and had been quicker to retract (not defend, as the entire paper save for Tom Toles) did this continuing misperception of who Barack Obama is would have been laid to rest long ago. Perhaps if Michael Dobbs had done his job, if Hillary Clinton hadn't played wink-wink, nod-nod "as far as I know," this crap would not be persisting.

But worse is that once again, Dobbs, the self-proclaimed fact checker, delivers three Pinocchios when it should be 4.

Obama is not a Muslim, never has been.

But more importantly, as there is no religious test to be President, what the hell does it matter? Christian, Muslim or Jew; Catholic or Protestant or or Mormon or Reform or Conservative or Orthodox, Buddhist or Sikh, Baha'i or Sunni or Shia, agnostic or atheist, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER?

The answer to questions about Obama's or ANY OTHER CANDIDATE'S faith is "SO WHAT IF HE OR SHE IS? SO WHAT???"

Posted by: Jade7243 Hussein | June 14, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse


Do you also think that FDR had specific "foreknowledge" of the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I was baptized. I was confirmed. But I don't consider myself Catholic, despite what it says on my school records.

But then, I could be a secret Vatican agent ...

Posted by: un-catholic | June 14, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse


If Obama is LYING about not being a Muslim, that would be very relevant. Sorry you refuse to see that.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"I am no expert, but as I understand Islam one is Muslim if one's father is Muslim. Only Muslim children are given the name Hussein. "

The only true statement in the above quote is that JakeD is not an expert. All the rest gets him four Pinocchios.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Pearl Harbor was an actual surprise attack.

The "threat" McSame will be fed will be one which has been prepared (allowed to progress) for the purpose of his election.

Not exactly like the Tonkin Gulf incident, but a lot more like that than Pearl Harbor.

Anyway, just watch, it will happen.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 14, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse


Please see post by Definitional Issue.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I have read the NYT's public editor's rebuttal. Seems it depends on whom you consult. Notice the scholars consulted by the NYT seemed rather liberal in their interpretation of Islam, describing nuance and modern day thought. We know that many Islamic scholars are nowhere near that liberal and have not "evolved" anywhere near that interpretation. Nothing new about this.

Modern day Muslims may or may not believe Obama is a Muslim because of his father. It is irrelevant to his presidential candidacy.

Just discusing Obama's religion has raised the ire of so many of his supporters. So it goes in a presidential primary.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse


I will be watching, but now you've got me curious. Was 9/11 an actual surprise attack too?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse


Aren't YOU posting anonymously too?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

One of the inherent problems with the "orthodox" Muslim definition of Muslim (the son of a Muslim is a muslim) is that it turns the religion from a faith to a race. Under this definition, once someone in the chain becomes a Muslim, all future males in the male line are Muslim. Forever. If one assumes that religion is a volitional choice, and race is something for which you do not have a choice and passes by descent, this definition turns Muslim into a race.

It also creates interesting questions. What about a child in the male line (say 8 generations away from "conversion" to Christianity) who becomes Pope. Is that a Muslim Pope? What about the son of the guy who becomes Pope with a woman of the Jewish Faith who is confirmed as a Catholic and converts to Hindu as an Adult. Is that person a Muslim Jew Catholic Hindu? And what happens if his son becomes a Morman and retroactively converts his relatives to the Morman faith? Is that person a Morman, Muslim, Jew, Catholic Hindu?

The "faith passes by birth" argument is irrational.

Posted by: Race or Faith | June 14, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

In addition, whether this applied to Obama or not, there are indeed madrassas that brainwash 6 year olds with nothing but the Koran, right? Again, I'm no expert, but I know I've seen that on CNN.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Race or Faith:

Jewish mothers take that "irrational" argument pretty seriously ; )

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Sen. Obama was born a Muslim, given an Arabic name by his Muslim father, and has an indisputable Muslim heritage regardless of his present religion. As an adult, he chose to live with Pakistani roomates in college, and chose to travel to Somalia and Kenya, evidencing an interest in his Muslim heritage. He has never traveled to Europe...not interested? Childhood is referred to as "the formative years" for a reason. His heritage is now a political liability for Sen. Obama, and so he is trying to spin any and all reference to it as "smears". His supporters zealously support the spin and denounce all mention of his background as racist/xenophobic. His birth certificate, a public document, seems to be off-limits.

Sen. Obama's Muslim heritage is inconvenient for him, but that is no excuse for his pretending that it doesn't exist.

Posted by: scribe15 | June 14, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Isn't FAITH "irrational" in and of itself?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Retraction- Obama's birth certificate is not off-limits- it is posted on his "Fight the smears" site...minus any mention of religion. Mother's race listed as "Caucasian", father as "African"...uh, is that a race? Like there aren't any caucasian Africans?

Posted by: scribe15 | June 14, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse


I don't think that's an official birth certificate.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I'll discuss it with you. Was Barack Obama ever a Muslim? Answer: No. He was never raised as a Muslim. His parents never brought him up to believe in the principles of Islam, nor did he or his parents practice the rituals of Islam. Under Islamic law, if your nominally Muslim father does not practice Islam, your child is not considered a Muslim at birth. Obama is neither a Muslim nor an apostate Muslim. And we know that his adult life has been Christian.

Next question?

Posted by: Elrod | June 14, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

This should receive 4 Pinnochios for its toxic mendacity.

Also, Floyd Brown should suffer the same fate as Lee Atwater. If there is any justice Floyd Brown will rot in hell.

Posted by: Elrod | June 14, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Only God "knows" for sure whether Obama is a Christian, was a Muslim, or where Atwater is.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Only three for an outright lie that´s also a deliberat smear?

The only thing more bizarre than your application of your¨"standard" is thta Jake D appears to believe the lie.

Posted by: Helen | June 14, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA is a Trojan Horse! But before I go into that, I want to address these idiots about WWII. The world is extremely lucky that the Kamikaze Japanese attacked the U.S. Please refer to . You will see Hitler's plan for America and the technology the U.S. obtained from the NAZIs. The Japanese would "stop at nothing" to kill all Americans, even though we were a neutral country at the time. The Japanese emperor (yes, Japan was not as civilized back then; it was basically communist) actually knew that only America had the power to stop the Germans and feared us. Ironically thank god, Japan attacked us and pulled us into the war. In 1946, Hitler's plan to kill America would have done just that. We had to do what we did to stop all efforts at ending democracy and freedom for all human beings. The Japanese would not stop... "God Bless America!"
In reference to the "race card", I actually out of mere curiosity looked up African American billionaires to see Business experience. I found that they as a whole race had only 4 Billionaires in U.S. history. Actually a Black Wo-MAN (Oprah Winfrey - Talk show host) had more money than any black "man" for 3 years running, but what I found is that Blacks have NEVER had a Multi-Billionaire in U.S. history. It scared me because the U.S.A. is a Multi-Trillion dollar country (business)!!! Obviously white little "boys" don't know anything about real money and Fifty (No Sense) Cent knows everything, much like many ENTERTAINMENT welfarians (Compared to Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc...). They don't know anything about Real Money and Real Business. Bottom-line blacks have not advanced into real business (Freedom of FREE ENTERPRISE) enough for any of them to run a Multi-Trillion Dollar Country... (What about in Africa? Why does the U.S. still contribute 50% of world wide food money? Why can't Africa have more 1st world countries? Why don't the Blacks take care of their own? Obama wants to Increase the Welfare Program and have a mandate for Health Care for Children so American taxpayers can pay for the children who don't have a responsible "MAN" in their lives. Please take a look at which race has the most children in adoption programs.)
OK Back to Religion, The United Church of ANTI-CHRIST in Chicago, where Obama attended for over 20 years, which by the way America, every year has 52 Sundays! Do the math! (20 years x 52 Sundays = 1,040 Anti-Christ Sermons!) WOW! And whites invented Aids but forgot to invent the cure! (Is Aids just a Black Disease? Um NO, we also forgot to make it racially specific, I personally have taken credit for Hurricanes.) Obama is simply acting like he is pro-american, but in truth his unforgiving and everlasting hate rivals Satan's himself. Reverend Wright/Obama's beliefs are simply insane! (The Wright Voting law should go into effect, where Voters can change their vote even after they've already voted because they should have the power to change their mind until the DNC.) "God will not hesitate to throw Satan out of Heaven, don't you ever, ever forget it!" Can the world imagine if Americans didn't help so many people?!?! Imagine it!
Spike Lee's comments to Clint Eastwood were ridiculous. Obama and Lee are simply successful in one aspect and that is to rehash a lot of old hate. "IF" we have another civil war in America, it will be called "The War of the Free". If Satan thinks he's better than God, then God will be more than happy to show him the door... The truth is, as all know, is that Blacks have not always been this advanced. Recently I viewed a show on the Discovery Channel where a Black "Man" invented Irrigation in Africa in 2007.
On to "Change we can Believe in." = "Change you can Xerox!" Wasn't it Hillary Clinton and the Clintons who taxed people over $250,000.00/year incomes? Um YES! So Obama got out his trusty Thesaurus and "changed the wording" but forgot to change the income amount. Payroll Taxes and Taxing people with over $250,000.00/year incomes is the same thing! Also, the DNC does NOT require candidates to report donors (campaign contributors) under $200.00. So Obama kept a list of all of these donors and literally bribed super delegates with his list. So when these Democrats go for re-election they have a fresh list of donors to once again loyally contribute.

In closing I want to say MCCAIN/CLINTON 2008. It's time for a Bi-Partisan Ticket, a Strong President with an economical genius VP (Clinton). The last time the U.S. had a Bi-Partisan ticket was Lincoln's 2nd term.

I'm not a racist. I am merely a REALIST, this is REALISM, do NOT mistake it for anything else...

Posted by: No One | June 14, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse


Would all "conservative" Islamic clerics agree with you?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse


As I've posted, above, all I believe is no more than a 2% chance that Barack Hussein Obama is a secret Muslim.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

When a Republican opens his mouth, all that comes out is slime. They know they have nothing to show except 8 years of failure and incompetence, and they are so desperate to stay in power, they will say or do anything to destroy the other candidate. Unfortunately, with our addiction to TV, and the general dumbing down of the populace, many people will believe this c***. Look how in the last election a genuine war hero had to defend his record, while a coward who used his families influence to stay out of Vietnam did not.

Posted by: Michael | June 14, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse


Perhaps you've not seen the attacks yet on another genuine war hero and POW?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Mccain better read this.

Mccain just doesn't get it. I don't think he even has a campaign office in Florida yet and Obama has been mobilizing here for a year. Mccain's campaign just don't have a clue. While they are trying do dig up dirt, Obama is digging up votes. While Mccain is talking to 200 in his silly town hall meetings. Obama reaches out to tens of thousands, maybe hundreds, both personally and through grass roots organizations. I have seen it. Within a 25 mile radius of me there are over 2000 people on the ground already working. Mccain doesn't have that many in the whole state of Florida yet. Mccains team does understand how the game is played todays.,0,4104965.story

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

liz or Yep:

You still around?

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I don't think religion should matter but honesty should. If he was a muslim, christian, buddhist, or anything else I don't care. It wouldn't even matter if he didn't reveal his faith. But it's wrong to lie to people about something.

Posted by: Dan McLaughlin | June 14, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Okay, all you McCain supporters who just can't figure out that a lot of us don't follow the religions we were raised in--and Obama wasn't even raised as a Muslim. I've got a great idea that I know will thrill you folks who believe in good Republican family values. Let's talk about the problem that marital monogamy seems to present for your boy McCain.

Posted by: Equal Time? | June 14, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

You bitter old white guys are going to be a lot more bitter when Obama is elected. Too bad, I hope you choke on your bitterness. This bitter old white Vietnam combat vet is voting for Obama.

Posted by: ericmiami | June 14, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

So does anyone actually know where McCain was really born? I guess only Allah knows for sure.

Posted by: rvloser | June 14, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Is it true tha McCain's skin cancer has returned and that is the reason no one could make copies of his medical records? Shouldn't McCain tell us the truth about his health?

Posted by: McCain Man | June 14, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

When did Cindy McCain plea bargain for illegal possession of pain killers? Did she serve time or was it community service? How long was the sentence? Does anyone know if she is still on illegal drugs/pain killers? Or does anyone care or should anyone care?

Posted by: McCain Truth | June 14, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

What happened with the Keating Five and McCain? Any chance McCain can still be charged with wrong doing? If so, will it interfere with the election? Can we have a President serve in office who is under indictment or the threat of serving in jail?

Posted by: Another McCain Truth | June 14, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Sen Obama was born to a muslim father ,brought up in his early childhood by a muslim stepfather and was enrolled in school as a muslim.Thse are facts but does not disqualify him from seeking presidency.Our constitution clearly seperates Church and state and there is no mention anywhere that only a Christian can be the president.

Posted by: Democrat | June 14, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Are you implying he is not a Christian?

Sen Obama was born to a muslim father ,brought up in his early childhood by a muslim stepfather and was enrolled in school as a muslim.Thse are facts but does not disqualify him from seeking presidency.Our constitution clearly seperates Church and state and there is no mention anywhere that only a Christian can be the president.

Posted by: Democrat | June 14, 2008 6:02 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Are you implying he is not a Christian?

Sen Obama was born to a muslim father ,brought up in his early childhood by a muslim stepfather and was enrolled in school as a muslim.Thse are facts but does not disqualify him from seeking presidency.Our constitution clearly seperates Church and state and there is no mention anywhere that only a Christian can be the president.

Posted by: Democrat | June 14, 2008 6:02 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

It does "seem" reasonable, but only God knows for sure.
Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 9:37 AM

Great point, Jake. So why don't you let God make that judgment, since he's more qualified to fill that job than you are. Or don't you think God would take your side on this one?

Ever consider that a just and loving God wouldn't think it mattered at all?

Posted by: tellthetruth | June 14, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

P.S. to Alex -- so you would vote for him or not based on that lie?
Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 10:50 AM

False choice. The question is: would I vote for him? Answer: yes.

Do I think he's lying? No. What I think is you are not intelligent enough to recognize that how he was registered for school at age 6 was beyond his control and absolutely irrelevant to who he is and what he believes or practices today.

Therefore, do I think this is an important issue: only in as much as it makes crystal clear the degree to which Republicans are bereft of issues upon which they can campaign authoritatively. They've got fear, false patriotism, and demonization to work with. God knows they can't talk about the mess they've made of the economy, foreign relations, the war in Iraq (and the lies told to put our troops there), the energy crisis, or our neglected national infrastructure. If they have to campaign on any of these things, they will have to look into the mirror and say, "We failed. Better bring back Willie Horton."

Posted by: tellthetruth | June 14, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Obama abused drugs while at Punahou.
Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 9:51 AM

One could easily make the argument that your never-ending mischaracterizations of Obama are an abuse of the truth.

Good thing you won't be running for office, Jake. God wouldn't vote for you.

Posted by: tellthetruth | June 14, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

I believe that God thinks it matters very much if Obama lies or abused drugs.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Keep in mind -- false accusers, back biters and the unrighteous face damnation before the judgment seat of my Father and I.

Posted by: Jesus de Christos | June 14, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

While some of the talking heads,CNN, Fox and McCain supporters have decided to slime Michelle Obama, let me remind them that Cindy McCain stole drugs from her own Non-Profit Organization and was a drug addict and still might be for all we know.
She did plead guilty. It's also has been said that she had been caught shoplifting.

This type of behavior is not appropriate for a First Lady. Yes, she did have a stroke but it seems to me that she was unstable before the stroke.

The lies about Michelle Obama are outrageous and not true. She will make a great First Lady. The Obama's have a loving marriage you can see it when they are together.

When you see McCain and his wife together you don't see that. There is something strange about that couple and their marriage.

Posted by: Deborah Evans | June 14, 2008 9:38 PM | Report abuse

How about Mccain calling his wife a cu*t in public in front of many people. No need for innuendo here, he did it and you know why he said it?
She said he was getting a little thin on top referring to him losing his hair. His reply to her was,

"At least I don't put on makeup with a trawl and look like a trollop, you cu*t".

Nice relationship, we really need these two in the white house.

While some of the talking heads,CNN, Fox and McCain supporters have decided to slime Michelle Obama, let me remind them that Cindy McCain stole drugs from her own Non-Profit Organization and was a drug addict and still might be for all we know.
She did plead guilty. It's also has been said that she had been caught shoplifting.

This type of behavior is not appropriate for a First Lady. Yes, she did have a stroke but it seems to me that she was unstable before the stroke.

The lies about Michelle Obama are outrageous and not true. She will make a great First Lady. The Obama's have a loving marriage you can see it when they are together.

When you see McCain and his wife together you don't see that. There is something strange about that couple and their marriage.

Posted by: Deborah Evans | June 14, 2008 9:38 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | June 14, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

I don't know and don't care. A six year-old is only aware of the superstitions his adult mentors throw his way. Besides, since when has the GOP been anything but a source of misinformation? Is Bush a Christian? He sure doesn't act like one. Or maybe Bush does act like a Christian, which would tell me we need an atheist president. Is Cheney a Christian? How about Rumsfeld and Rove? If these money-changers are any indication, Christianity sure seems to be putting out the wrong message nowadays.

Posted by: Mark from Planet Earth | June 14, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

It can't be any worse than the Clintons.

Posted by: JakeD | June 14, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Looking through the posts here, I see Jake D has been posting, continually, on a Saturday, to the same stupid story, for over six hours. Ever considered doing something productive, or useful? Maybe something to help your fellow man, or to clean up the environment. Maybe seek treatment for your anti-social behavior, and war-mongering tendencies? No reason to answer Jake, I have other things to do. I won't see your response, but know you'll see this.

Posted by: Mark from Planet Earth | June 14, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse


Don't worry. I will be golfing tomorrow.

Posted by: JakeD | June 15, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Do the fake JakeD posts count toward "continually"?

Posted by: JakeD | June 15, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Jake D, the cleaners called. Your white hood is ready for pickup.

Posted by: filmex | June 15, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

This is no longer about the Clintons, so stop blaming them for everything.

THIS is about Obama ever being a Muslim which he has obviously lied about.

Posted by: Julie in Georgia | June 15, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

True moslems doesn't register their son or step-son into a catholic school.Think first before spilling your brainwashed fox my brain comment.

Posted by: freakyfred | June 15, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

The fact remains that hypocrit phony lying
Barack Hussein Obama and Michelle Obama will use whatever kind of religion that they seem to think will best further their
phony screwball Marxist,Muslim,Black Theocratic or whatever,personal agenda. So
isn't it time the newsmedia and all the
kool aid drinking obamafools and little
obamabots stop pretending Obamas are Christian and face reality as to how totally extremist both Barack Hussein Obama
and Michelle Obama really are and totally
reject the Obama extremist agenda by voting
no to Barack Hussein Obama on Election Day.
Obama is totally Unelectable Accept It!

Posted by: Sherry Kay | June 15, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse

Jake D is not a racist; trust me on this, I've been reading his posts for months now. He really does care about his country.

That being said - you said something interestin there about 3/4's of the way through your discussion, and I was waiting to hear if you made that distinction. Are you saying that Obama is actually a Muslim, or was raised as a Muslim? It sounds like his parents certainly didn't follow the teachings of the faith, so I doubt he was raised as a Muslim. That being the case, I think it's fair to say that no, he was not a muslim.

You also keep banging at the 2 % chance that Senator Obama is secretly a Muslim. I'd say the chance was less than that, but anyway. If there is a 2% chance (or less) that this is true, and a 1 % chance that McCain is a zombie, then is it fair to even DISCUSS these things s part of the campaign?

And, as to lies, oh come on! Anyone who gets to the point where they are a serious contender for national office has shaded the truth in such a way that it could be considered a HAVE to know that.

Have fun golfing!

Posted by: John D in Houston | June 15, 2008 2:08 AM | Report abuse

I've traditionally voted Republican in most national elections, but was considering Obama as a choice this time.

Whew! Sherry Kay's well-reasoned analysis has convinced me that Obama would be bad.

Thanks, SK!

Posted by: Bob S. | June 15, 2008 2:55 AM | Report abuse

The facts remain here that both of these
phony political opportunist liberal ding
dongs Barack Hussein and Michelle Obama
have been using their Trinity Church to
have an in with the black community and
both Barack Hussein and Michelle Obama are
racist extremists and do support numberous
Muslim ideas and so the Obama's can stop
lying about it and all the looney toons
Obamafools can reject Barack Hussein Obama
by voting no to Barack Hussein Obama as we
cannot afford these weirdo as President and
that religion has no place in politics.
No Obama in 2008 or Ever! NOBAMA!

Posted by: Ralphinphnx | June 15, 2008 3:10 AM | Report abuse

What the hell makes you a Muslim?
What the hell makes you a Christian?

There are too many people using religion as there door mate.

Who knows what anyones religion really is?
How do you know if a Christian is a real Christian? How do you know if a Muslim is a real Muslim?

What qualifies a person to be a person of a particular faith.

Jesus and Mohamed come from the Middle East, not America?

Americans could care less about Jesus or Mohamed 500 years ago. Ask the Native Americans if Jesus or Mohamed ever came up in their discussions around the fire!

I don't think they did.

You being a Christian or a Muslim, or being a real Christian or a real Muslim has nothing to do with your job as President of the United States.

Just because someone says they are of a particular faith, does not mean I care about it!

There were other religions in America, and there are other cultures in America. I am tiered of the Christian Muslim debate in a country where neither were needed for beauty to arise!

Keep your religion in perspective, and keep the conversation of religion in perspective, in the church, temple, or mosque, but out of politics.

Lets talk laws, not religion.

Did Jesus or Mohamed say they are for NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND?
Did Jesus or Mohamed say they are for THE INVASION OF IRAK?
Did Jesus or Mohamed say they are for THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?


I am for America! Not religion. I am for the Constitution and Bill of RIGHTS!
I am for Democracy. I am for Documents written on behalf of my country not your religion.

Keep your religious requirements out of America! I don't care If Barack Obama is a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Buddist. I don't care if he changed his religion over a million times.

Why should he be forced to speak about his personal religious beliefs to please anyone?

Religion is between you and your god! Not me!

Posted by: VB | June 15, 2008 5:21 AM | Report abuse

Had it not been for 9/11, nobody, barring a few "Christian" zealots would care about any possible designations of "Muslim" in Obama's early childhood.

The vicious neocon scum who were warned about 9/11 and deliberately let it happen are yet again manipulating fear and prejudice in an attempt to hold on to the power they seized 7 years ago.

This is your Republican party, folks.

Posted by: Helena Montana | June 15, 2008 6:20 AM | Report abuse

So what if Obama (Mohammed) Hussien Barrack was a Muslim. I will give that black Muslim guy a chance to change America for the better. I'm sick and tire of see some dumb white guy (thinks he an angel) keep driving America in a wrong direction. You conservatives are so afraid of seeing change that you resort to scare tactic like telling people Obama was a Muslim. I don't give a crap$ if he was a devil as long as he works for the American people who desperately need a better direction for America.

Posted by: mark smith | June 15, 2008 7:00 AM | Report abuse

"Nothing personal," JakeD, but the US government has formally apologized for the internment of Japanese-Americans during the war. More to the point, the 442nd RCT, including the 100th INF BN, the National Guard unit from Obama's birth state, is the most decorated unit in US military history -- and it's produced a good number of American leaders, including Senator Inouye and Representative Mastsusaga. Twenty-one Medals of Honor were won by the 1500 members of that unit -- along with over 9000 Purple Hearts. Just because we were racist and fearful then is no reason to be racist and fearful now. So crawl back into your hole -- and stay there. We could have done much worse than elect a Nisei in WWII. They proved their loyalty in the face of great adversity at home and overseas, attacked on two fronts by white racists -- Nazis in Italy and France and "right-thinking" Americans here in the States.

Posted by: oilhistorian | June 15, 2008 7:24 AM | Report abuse

But McCain was brainwashed by Ho Chi Minh and fathered a black child. Why hasn't the media picked up on this? Do we really expect a Manchurian candidate to keep us safe? Do we really expect a man whose wife is responsible for thousands of deaths at the hands of drunk drivers to care about our safety? What does marrying a mass murderer say about McCain's values?

Posted by: Garak | June 15, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Americans are not very stupid to believe these types of vaccous arguments about Obama. History is shaping itself before our own eyes, unfortunately, myopic conservatives who want to restrain us in the past cannot see it.
They started that Obama is inexperienced; Obama was a muslim; Obama is affiliated with pastor Wright; Obama is...we don't what they are going to come with next.
When change comes, it is like a hurricane no one can stop it. No one will stop us from going straight towards the bright future; towards a new page in the history that cannot happen anywhere in the world, but in USA.

Posted by: Arthur | June 15, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Why do liberals try and put weak minded people on a guilt trip to get them to vote for their candidate.
I'm not voting for Obama, but it's not because someone said he's a muslim or anything else.
I'm not going to vote for obama because I don't like him or his politics and that is the only reason I need. Plus he has no experience. You can throw in Michelle, Wright, Phlager, and the bomber for good measure.
I'm not crazy about McCain either, but he's the lesser of two evils.

Posted by: Fred Brown | June 15, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

McCain's campaign will be based on a mountain of lies just like the Chimps...they only work when bigots vote.

Posted by: henrywallace | June 15, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

The Bigger question for all these crazy evangelicals and hypocrite Sundays Christians should be if their Jesus , a son of of a Jew was also a Jew. Obama was about five years old while in Indonesia where most schools in his step fathers districts were predominating catering to the majority Muslim population. What does a five year know about the difference. I for one went to Catholic Church with friends, Muslim Mosques, Indian Temples, Quaker get to gather and sat in their circle, other denomination Christian Churches, Jewish places of worship, Buddhists Temples and studied comparative religions of the world, argued with nuns about religion. All this through college.
My final assessment is that religion does more harm then good and abhor organized religion. Actually know more then Islam then Obama ever will be.
All these SOBs preaching all this BS are crazy misled lunatics. I suggest to shove your religion where the sun does not shine.

Posted by: winemaster2 | June 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

One thing to say:
Compassionate Conservative.
Who dat???

Posted by: mikey | June 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Al from NJ wrote:

The only thing that matters is that Obama is a liar.
He is lying by mere avoidance of the issue.
He's creepy.
Why wouldn't he mention that his Father was a Muslim and that he attended a Muslim School.
Now he is throwing his past and his father under the bus.
It's getting awfully crowded under the bus, don't you think?


Posted by: Anonymous | June 15, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Good grief,

Since truth has absolutely no place in American politics anymore, we should immediately begin investigating John McCain on the following "facts":

1. John McCain is a pedofile who has been convicted fourteen times in Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico for soliciting sex from little boys.

2. John McCain likes to capture squirrels, and cook and eat them. But not before having sex with them.

3. John McCain used to be a woman by the name of "Imelda" before having a sex change at Johns Hopkins Hospital Center in Baltimore, MD in 1979. WHY ARE YOU HIDING YOUR PAST, IMELDA??

3. John McCain was the one actually singing on the sound track that Milli Vinilli was lip-synching to.

4. John McCain used to streak through Academy Awards ceremonies with the words "SOY BOMB" painted on his chest.

5. John McCain is not only 115 years old, but was an active member of Hitler's SS for 14 years, and was the mastermind behind the invasion of Poland in 1939.

6. John McCain is the webmaster of and intends to turn the basement of the White House into his own personal B&D salon.

7. John McCain speaks twelve different languages, can play eleven different musical instruments, can run a three-minute mile, has an IQ of 156, and can memorize entire novels after a single reading, due to a pact he made with the Satan in 1970.

8. John McCain was a pornographic film star until the advent of the VHS platform came into common use in 1979.

9. John McCain was an agent for the CIA who ran realtime war simulations that predicted the necessary strategies for a full-scale land war attack on Canada.

10. John McCain has a pet llama, with whom he shares a deep emotional bond.

11. John McCain's favorite movie is "Steel Magnolias".

12. John McCain is a quasi-psychotic who must take daily supplements of Risperdal, Effexor and nitro-glycerin, coupled with daily electro-shock therapy, to prevent him from losing his temper.

Posted by: Deaniac | June 15, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Ooooooohhhh!!! Watch out for those Muslims!

They're different than us white catholic protestant mormon jews!!!

They do scary things like bombing buildings with planes!

This is the lowest form of media manipulation I've seen in years. I attended a Catholic school when I was a child, now I'm a Buddhist, Whats the BIG DEAL republican right wing?!?!

Posted by: Anonymous | June 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

The big deal is that you didn't lie about it.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, he is nor a muslim nor a christian apparently, or at least not a christian like belong to the Trinity Church. It's not his fault though, for twenty years he had no idea those Trinity people were not christians like he wanted to be.

He smears enough caca on himself without anyone else having to do so.

Posted by: Dave in DC | June 15, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I am a Secular Humanist and I don't care what religion a candidate is. I care about whether a candidate is intelligent, curious, a life-long learner, fair-minded, and capable of communicating complex thoughts. A candidate should not be wedded to an ideology that exists apart from rational thought. The tautology: "If Obama is a Muslim then he must be a terrorist." lies at the root of the discussion of his religious foundational knowledge. One could also ask: "If Obama is a Negro then he must not be suitable for the Oval Office." Those people who ask and answer such questions in order to decide for whom to vote should be disqualified from voting.

Posted by: BlueTwo1 | June 15, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

That the GOP and its followers are still continuing on with these tactics, after they brought us 8 years of the worst administration in American history, is disgusting. Who hates America? I'd say it's these people, but they don't even rise to that level -- they see this country and its citizens as something to ruthlessly and shamelessly exploit for their gain. Let's see what portion of the American people, having learned NOTHING the past few years, will follow right along in lockstep once again. Right now it looks like 41%. Disgusting!

Posted by: Captive_Audience | June 15, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

There are clearly no true christians on this tread. The bible clearly teaches that when we accept Christ as our Lord we a reborn not of flesh but in spirit, our sin are forgiven all things are past away and we become new creatures in Christ. We once where dead to the truth of Gods mercy and grace are made alive through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. If you truly beleive in Christ then you would know that the redemptive work that he(Christ) did for us on the cross would circumvent Barack Obama's past. His blood shed on calvary cleanse us of all sin(including following after false gods) even if he was once a Muslim if he has accepted Jesus Christ he is saved and a joint heir in the promises that were given to all men that if you should hearken unto to me that I(GOD) will in cast away. God is not a man that he should lie.

Posted by: USA | June 15, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

IF you hearken unto me I will in no wise cast away GOD is not a man that he should lie.

Posted by: usa | June 15, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

can anyone be 100 % sure McCain and or Obama is not an alien from Alpha Centuri in disguise ?
We need to do human genome test now ? How about an autopsy live !!!

see how ridiculous all this blogs sound ?

Posted by: oberst | June 15, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Get out your checkbook, the taxman is coming and his name is democrat!

Posted by: Tennessee | June 15, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I don't care that he was a Muslim. I do care that he is still a hypocrite and a leftist who wants to cripple the middle class with unfair taxes.

His religion doesn't matter much, since as a habitual liar he "transcends" religion.

Posted by: dyinglikeflies | June 15, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

John McCain wet his bed when he was six.

John McCain is a secret bed-wetter.

Barack Obama cannot be the Anti-Christ, because the Anti-Christ is ALREADY in the office of President of the United States. He started a war in the Middle East in the belief that it would foment Armageddon and bring on the Rapture. We have not yet seen whether he succeeded.

John McCain was tortured by Communists in Asia, and given his frat-boy, fly-boy persona before that, it could be said that he "grew up" in Asia, so maybe HE is the Anti-Christ? He sure has the temperament of a Son of the Devil. HE is the Manchurian Candidate we've been warned about since the '60s.

He SAYS he's a Baptist, but he has never been baptized as an adult, so he is NOT a Baptist, and he's lying about it.

I don't care if John McCain is or is not a Baptist. What I care about is his LYING about it.

Finally, put me down as astounded that this crap only gets 3 Pinoochio's. What qualifies for four?

P.S. It's CINDY McCain who is the zombie and just another drug abuser like George W. Bush and Rush Limbaugh.

Posted by: RealCalGal | June 15, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Our Constitution enables us to maintain separation of Church and State. I know Presidential Candidates should be scrutinized for their position on "Issues". Now, I think our NeCon friends wants to have a litmus test on our belief and faith. Wonderful! Let's bring forth Religion in our politics and wouldn't it niece to initiate a vicious rankle on religious fight! Hell Yes! Someone in distance says Hell No!! Who wins let us see. Are Evangelicals friends disgusted and frustrated with Senator McCain. Good luck! Let's do it!!! Thanks

Posted by: GOLAM ARSHAD | June 15, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse







Posted by: brucerealtor | June 15, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Obama did not "find" Christ at Trinity. He found a white hating, America hating, racist spewing venue where he felt at home and felt comfortable bringing his family.

Only after running for office outside his comfortable, ugly little racist circles did this become an issue.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 15, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"Creepy" would be more descriptive of you, Al from NJ. I could make room under the bus for both you and JakeD if you wouldn't object. Talk about a pair of cretins.

Posted by: no bigot like an old bigot | June 15, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

since god is a myth why does any of this matter?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 15, 2008 6:37 PM | Report abuse

This only matters because OBAMA HAS BEEN DISHONEST WITH THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. His mother was an agnostic and his biological father was a Muslim (which accounts for Obama's 3 Muslim names and seems to be why it didn't bother him to marry Obama's mother while married to his life-long wife who lived in Kenya at the time). Additionally, his step-father was Muslim. He (and his mother) lived in the Muslim country of Indonesia UNTIL OBAMA WAS 10 (not 6) and attended the mosque with his step-father while there, though not regularly (according to Obama's half-sister by his mother and step-father). His mother and step-father remained married until Obama was 18 (a fact Obama never mentions because of the religion issue). Obama has 3 half-siblings through his father and still-living step-mother. At least one of the half-siblings, the oldest, became a Christian for a while and then went back to being Muslim. Not surprisingly, Obama's cousins (all through his father) are also Muslim. As for Obama, once he thought about politics, it certainly made sense for him to become a Christian. With its relationship to Louis Farrakan and Hamas,the now-infamous church Obama chose is unusually close to Muslims, but what Obama really believes no one will ever know. ALL WE REALLY KNOW IS THAT HE'S TRIED AS HARD AS POSSIBLE TO CONCEAL THE EXPOSURE HE HAD TO THE MUSLIM RELIGION DURING HIS FORMATIVE YEARS AND DOESN'T MENTION THE MUSLIM FAITH OF HIS LIVING RELATIVES.

Posted by: BOB S | June 15, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm confused. Looking solely at the facts, the article above details evidence that supports Obama's claims that he is not and has never been a Muslim. He wasn't enrolled in a madrassa as has been erroneously reported, was not raised in the Muslim faith by his parents, and it was his non-practicing stepfather (not his father) who put that on the elementary school application.

JakeD has posted several times that his point is not whether Obama is a Muslim but IF Obama is LYING about it, that would be a problem. Several other posters say there's been a cover-up.

I agree that nobody should LIE about their religion. I would honestly like to know what kind of evidence would convince JakeD that Obama is telling the truth, that he is not lying when he says he is not nor has he ever been a Muslim.

Also, so could someone please explain where the "lying" and "cover-up" parts occurred? I missed that when it happened.

Posted by: txgirl | June 15, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Ignorant bigots (Republicans) sure aint gunna let any facts get in their way!

Posted by: Steve Oday | June 15, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

To Mandi08 - Your post tells me that you are in fact a fake christian. Last time I checked, Christianity was about love and being devoid of prejudice.

Read the Bible some more...maybe you will start to understand what God is trying to tell us!

Posted by: Chefra | June 15, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse


Do you have more intelligence that your average brain damaged chimp? Well, it " seems " that way since you can type. But only God knows.

Excuse me, WaPo, but when did Mr.Obama become subject to a religious test? His answers, Mr. Brown's smears, and your Pinocchios are as irrelevant to this Presidential race as JakeD is to the human race.

Posted by: Julie | June 15, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

This is a even lower point of this so called "fact checker" column than the last one. There is no fact been presented that can be used to counter the suggestions of the ad. Both this column and the ad are at the same level of accuracy: vague and tries to bend facts for their own preferences.

The important question is not whether Obama is or was Muslim or not (we all know he was born to a Muslim father and by Islam law he is Muslim for life), it is why he is so afraid of admitting his history as a child who has a Muslim background. This says something about his character: he is afraid, very afraid, of what the image of a Muslim can do to his political career. My reading is that he shows strong prejudice against the Islam faith. This lead to the other question: is his Christian faith real or just for political expediency? The fact that a Harvard law school graduate can sit in a radical black church for 20 plus years seem to suggest the latter.

A man who knows him for more than 20 years, Rev Wright says it all: he his a politician, and does what politicians do.

My question is: if elected, would Obama deserve the extra security that need to be provided for him with tax dollars, should the fundamentalist Muslims claim his life based on his betrayal of the faith he was born with? And if that happens, how would that affect our nation?

Posted by: God Father | June 15, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

JakeD and therefore John S. McCain should not be allowed to serve as president of the USA because there is no record to his birth so 1 he does not meet the age requirement and 2 you can not prove that he was born a US citizen. That sounds reasonable to me.

Posted by: GC4Life | June 15, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Instead of presenting new facts (except for pointing out something may not be verified) to counter the ad, the fact checker chose to attack the character of the maker. Such ad hominem attack says something about the nature of this so called fact check: a propaganda machine.

Posted by: Circinus | June 15, 2008 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Stop with the madness & think.
He didn't enroll himself in school. If you ask a 6 year old what his religion is can he honestly tell you? Did you know what religion you were at the age of 6. did it matter? Hardly!

And to set the record straight, you cannot be both Muslim and Christian. Christianity believes, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he lived, was crucified on a cross, died, and rose from the grave on the 3rd day & is coming again.

The Muslim belief does not believe Christ was divine & deny His death on the cross and His ressurrection.

Read People Read!

Posted by: M.H | June 15, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

My best friend's 5 year old cracked us all up with the comment last winter - "We need to go get a Christmas tree because we're Jewish". When he grows up, he will either laugh about this or be embarrassed.

My point is that to hold a 6 year old responsible for understanding the theology of a religion and making a conscious choice about it, potentially against the will of a step-parent, is crazy.

If this is the most conservative bloggers can come up with to smear Obama, they are in sad form.

Posted by: tsr | June 15, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse


As the postings attest,
much prejudice exists.

We are going to hear
much about how
scary black people
are over the next
few months.

We are going to also
hear a lot about
Barack Obama's
skin color, but not
much about how
cancerous McBush's
face looks. I am not
saying we should
discriminate against
people with cancer,
but you'd think it
might be as
important as Barack's


Posted by: McBush | June 15, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Is Obama's father a Muslin? Can someone confirm that? If his father is indeed a muslin, then BHO is born a muslin. Nothing wrong with that! At best he is a convert Christian. That's the first change he made and of course we know recently he changed his church. How convenient!

What's next on his change list?

Posted by: LC | June 15, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

First, who cares what religion his step-father or some other unnamed person registered a six year old as? What does that have to do with anything?

Second, that is the point of the sleaze bag scum fing republicon slime that have been destroying America for the past three decades. They know, KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can never EVER stand a chance in a debate on substance. They lose on every issue. EVERY issue. They also know enough about marketing and psychology and that most people don't know anything about marketing or psychology to know that this type of scurrilous and disgusting attack is EXACTLY what derails substantive poltical discourse and has the aded benifit for the republicscums of creating false ideas in peoploe's minds which they carry with them into the voting booth.

Posted by: Brandon | June 15, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

The Koran advises Muslims to pretend they are of another religion if necessary.

Posted by: Read the Koran | June 15, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Those of you who are trying to debate Jake D. and others who share his opinions are wasting your time and energy. It is obvious that such people are unable to think logically. Let them wallow in their ignorance, then go down to the nearest Obama HQ and volunteer. You will then have the joy in November (which I will certainly share) of cheering the landslide victory of our Democratic ticket. I first voted in 1948, and for the first time since Dec. 12, 2000, I am able to be proud of my country, and hold some hope for its future and that of my grandchildren as its citizens.

Posted by: Grandy | June 15, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Let's talk about evolution - and people do evolve for the most part. They evolve physically and they evolve mentally. But there are a lot of people who don't evolve far enough - and every election some politician or party, with their backs against the wall, will desperately reach out to these people, mired in ignorance and fear, and hope that by catering to them that their chances at the ballot box will improve. It almost worked for Hillary Clinton, but she left it too late in her campaign to pull out a win. Despite his straight-talk rhetoric, John McCain and the republican party will resort to these tactics. Why? Because they have always worked! George Bush didn't just show up on the Whitehouse lawn one day - he was voted into office by the American people. Twice!
Why mess with a recipe for success?

How about "NOT THIS TIME"!!!!!!!

Posted by: Dave Reeves | June 15, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

It is time to kick Religion out of American Politics...this nation was founded on Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM Religion!

This is highly inaccurate, as our founding fathers were religious. Why else is the word GOD mentioned several times in the Constitution? Please think before speaking.

Posted by: bryan2369 | June 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

"But from your remark I think we can draw the logical conclusion that if a Muslim 6-yr-old is brainwashed with the Koran, then a Christian or a Jewish 6-yr-old is brainwashed with the Bible. So that religion is a matter merely of brainwashing people."

Hey! Stop that! You've almost persuaded me to agree with JakeD!

Posted by: tom | June 15, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

"Is Obama's father a Muslin? Can someone confirm that?"

Nope. All wool. No muslin. Perhaps a little polyester?

Posted by: tom | June 15, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

"Is Obama's father a Muslin? Can someone confirm that?"

Unfortunately, they let these stupid dips vote! Anyone for a constitutional amendment?

Posted by: tom | June 15, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

godafther, I have not heard any Muslim fundamentalists threaten Obama because he betrayed Islam. A six-year old, registered by his stepfather, does not consider himslef Muslim. It is documented that he made faces during studies of the Koran, which is taught in Indonesian public schools, much like the Bible was in our public schools. It does not matter what religion your father or stepfather is, it is what you are. Growing up we had family friends: the motgher was Irish Catholic, the father Jewish. The children were all raised as Catholic, so that ruins the "father's religion" crap. One daughter is a nun, a son a priest who baptized his father in his fisrt act after ordination. I don't remember any Hassidic Jews coming after Charlie for converting or for his "Jewish" children joining Catholic religious orders. This whole Obama Muslin thing is crap, considering he spent most of his formulative years living with his mother's parents, white American Christians. It is the jake d's and similar idiots who equate all Muslims with terrorists. In that case, let's lock up Muhammed Ali, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Ahmad Rashad, Antoine Randle-El, and all those other Islamic terrorists in the NFL and NBA. Whatya say?

Posted by: mike l | June 15, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Was McCain ever a wife-beater? Why did he get divorced? Was he violent against his first wife? Is it true he choked her? punched her?
We know he has called his second wife a "cun*" -- a fact we have on tape and that Americans need to hear. Why does he regularly do this? Is this violent guy, friends to racists like Floyd and guys who joke about rape, someone we want near our young daughters? the WH?
As a Conservative Christian I would never vote for such an anti-Christian as McCain. A man who has friends attack Catholics as evil, a man who attacks our Evangelical leaders with violent language.

Posted by: GOP Street Against McBush | June 15, 2008 10:31 PM | Report abuse


I do not think all Muslims are terrorists. As I stated, above, I would even vote for an HONEST Muslim.

Sorry I can't reply to everyone else. Maybe Tuesday. Have a nice evening.

Posted by: JakeD | June 15, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to the days of Woodward and Bernstein? Do you mofos take your marching orders from KKKarl Rove now? Mainstream Media is an effing joke these days, Is it any wonder that peole get their news from the Daily Show? Y'all suck!

Posted by: braultrl | June 15, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

I just can't believe this is really an issue. A buddy of mine was baptized in a Catholic church as an infant. His grandmother would have killed his mother if he hadn't been. Since then he's been to church only for the odd funeral or wedding, never been to catholic school, never celebrated any of the holidays. His mom became an atheist and thats how he was raised. He knows nothing of Catholic faith or culture. So what if someone asks him if he was ever catholic? What if he says no and later on they find his baptismal record tucked away in some parish he's never even heard of? Does that really mean he was lying? Does that mean he was trying to cover it up? It would seem much more likely that because he was so far removed from the Catholic faith, his baptism wouldn't have even popped into his mind.

What happened to Liz by the way? Her posts were intelligent and on topic. Probably the first time I've seen that on in a while. I'd love to see more from her.

Posted by: Brian | June 15, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

God Father wrote

My question is: if elected, would Obama deserve the extra security that need to be provided for him with tax dollars, should the fundamentalist Muslims claim his life based on his betrayal of the faith he was born with? And if that happens, how would that affect our nation?

My Comment:
Have you really thought through your comment? Are you really suggesting that if someone outside the US wishes to influence an election result by placing one of the candidates in danger if the candidate should win (which I might add is an incredible leap in logic not based on any facts of any kind whatsoever) that the US should take this into account and give in to that outside force? Talk about "giving in" to the terrorists. We have already "let the terrorists win" by surrendering many of our fundamental rights and freedoms and now you also want to let them "control" the electoral process?

Posted by: Cowardice by any other name | June 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Let's get the record straight. Obama is not a Muslim. Period. Calling Obama a Muslim is clear cut lie. He is a Christian. It is play in the politics of fear fueled by hate mongers who derailed democratic candidates in the past through lies. If RNC is going to allow 527s to engage in attacks of lies, then democrats should take their gloves off as well. Instead of debate of issues, smear attacks and innuendos politics can be hurled back at the McSame candidacy.

Secondly, Obama's early years in Indonesia is an asset. What is lost in this Islam bashing is what is actually at stake in resolving today's conflict with the Islamic fundamentalist. What is more foolish then not realizing what America is up against. We are not engaged in a battle with the one billion Muslims in this world nor do would we want. The target should be the fundamentalist terrorist organizations. Countries that are predominantly Muslims have struggled with similar fundamentalist in the past. Algeria for example was struggling with fundamentalist before large sector of the American society had even heard of Islam.

We need to engage the predominantly Muslim countries and people with intelligence. We should have policies that undermine and marginalize the fundamentalist terrorists. Our policies can provide fodder that fuel the anti-American fever and thus provide recruits to the fundamentalist. In this regards, the Iraq war has done the damage.

There are millions of Muslims worldwide who would willingly partner with the US to confront the terrorists. Many Islamic countries will work with us not out of altruistic reasons but for their own survival against these extremist or similar homemade groups. However, our policies play a dominant role in whether we gain partners both on national and individual levels.

This leads me to the current smears. Think how Obama's childhood years in Indonesia would empower us symbolically. We can begin a fresh start to counterbalance the Iraq damage and develop multi-layered policies of engagement. Obama is a Christian. He is an American patriot. He is a talented forward looking American, who can move this country forward in facing the new threats we have today effectively. We do not need an old guard approach to handle a new threat. Obama's exposure to a Muslim country in his early years and his middle name is an asset for America that only a right wing neocon would not realize.

Posted by: ZAZ | June 16, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

JakeD is kind of stupid or suffers from a mental deficit, so he writes a lot of nonsense on the blogs. Reminds me of another mental midget who called himself svreader who wrote incessant Hillary screeds. Svreader has not been heard from since 14 May 2008. We can only hope that JakeD would disappear as well.

Posted by: Black and Bitter like Coffee | June 16, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Is McCain a member of the KKK. After all he's voted against all affirmative action laws, MLK birthday just to name a few. This my people is what the country has come to. What's wrong with being a Muslim, Mormon, Buddhist, or Hindu. I wouldn't care what the hell they religions are, as long as they can do the job.

You dumb ass Americans are so ignorant its comical. I see why the world hates the USA.

Posted by: Antoine | June 16, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse

A QUESTION We the People need Answered:

Is Obama's whole campaign based on:
One Big Lie - CHANGE he did not make?

Obama claims 7 years experience in the Illinois legislature -(Working Across the Aisles, Bringing people together to get good CHANGES passed)-as exemplified by 26 good bills with his name on them.

A Chicago reporter says all 26 bills were passed in ONE Year and they were not Obama's.


But what's interesting, and almost never discussed, is that he built his entire legislative record in Illinois in a single year.

Republicans controlled the Illinois General Assembly for six years of Obama's seven-year tenure.

Then Emil Jones Jr. (became the Senate Majority leader), He became Obama's kingmaker. Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

During his seventh year in the state Senate, Obama ... sponsored a whopping 26 bills including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.

QUOTING from Obama's book "The Audacity of Hope":

"After two terms during which I labored in the minority, Democrats had gained control of the state senate, and I had subsequently passed a slew of bills, from reforms of the Illinois death penalty system to an expansion of the state's health program for kids. I had continued to teach at the University of Chicago Law School, a job I enjoyed, and was frequently invited to speak around town."

Obama's own words confirm the fact that Democrats were in the Majority when he claims he passed ... a slew of bills. (The governor was also a Democrat at that time) ... bringing into QUESTION ... just how much ... (working across the aisles; bringing people together), if any, ... was Necessary to the passage of those 26 bills.?

It should be relatively easy to confirm or deny whether those 26 bills were passed in one year. If they were all passed in one year that fact creates a strong appearance the legislaion did not originate with Obama; was not written by him; not his legislation - given the fact that he worked part time as a state senator, part time as a college lecturer, and part time as a speaker - leaving him with ...too little time... to do as he claims.

The Chicago reporter's claim those bills were not Obama's is sourced to a talk radio host providing information that he claims came to him directly from Emil Jones.

The reporter's claim "...angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills" -is subject to verification by two or more Illinois State Senators whose legislation was assigned to Obama by Emil Jones.

IF the Reporter's claims are accurate then Obama is a FAKE, FALSE, FRAUD as a candidate for public office - unfit for any public office.

I need to know whether this story is true or false - BEFORE - I VOTE.

Posted by: elme | June 16, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse

It's interesting to read so much opinion, abuse, etc. in a column entitled "Fact Checker."

Fact: in Indonesia, any child is given the nationality and the religion of his or her father. Mother doesn't have any say in it. If Obama was listed as Indonesian or Muslim in school, that's because it's what his father was.

Posted by: lived in Jakarta | June 16, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

The truth is there are NO Muslim children anywhere. There are NO Christian children anywhere either- especially that young. How can a child decide? The truth is that there are children of Muslim parents and children of Christian parents. How can an elementary school kid know yet what he/she is? It is utterly absurd!!!

Posted by: Bill Kane | June 16, 2008 2:39 AM | Report abuse

After reading this entire thread, I just hope there's no rioting if Obama loses.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 16, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Was Obama ever a Muslim?

Obama is a christian as has been previously stated. There are far more important concerns that need be addressed than to constantly procrastinate on an agenda that has long been proven. Obama is the best elect for the presidential seat, yet to have so much controversy stemming around one's religion preference is quite appalling at this time and point in the election. Our country concerns and interests need be addressed that we may the recipients of a better America for tommorrow.

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

It is such hatred and procrastination of this caliber that one tends to drill on to keep a good person out of office, yet we are in no better shape or has been in the past 8 or 9 years already. Why not focus on the strengths and the concerns and interests that America really needs to be addressed to move our country into a better tommorrow.

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

How can we address our country's concerns and interests so that we may be the recipients of a better America for "tommorrow" if Obama is lying about this?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 16, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

It's apparent that the media are the blind leading the blind. However, You will need to get up mighty early to pull one over on the Obama supporters. We know the truth. You who are blind, I pray that you will someday come to the light, that you may see that Obama is the best elect for the President of the United States of America. We are not mad at the media, but it goes to show how minut their intelligence level is and how they stand in need of having the wool pulled off of their eyes. God Bless America. Obama 08!

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

And please don't tell me that lying about religion is the same as lying about sex.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 16, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

What creditability does society give to a kid at such a young age as to what their preference of anything is. It is the preference of the parent to decide where and what a kid at that age may or may not do. It is not the kids choice. Their are lots of choices that my parents may have choose for me way back when, because as a kid, most choices were mad by the parents, mom or dad. Get real people, what a waste of the media and people's important time then to stagnate on such mediocre nonsense. Be better than that, there are far more agendas that I am sure you can bring to the American people.

Posted by: Nisey01 | June 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Hi All,
Went to school with Barack who was known as Barry back then. He is definately not a muslim. Never was, never has been and never will be. So there you have it! I'm telling it to you straight up.

Posted by: Oxy Grad | June 16, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

McCain cheated on his first wife with his current wife.
He called his current wife a "cun*".
He cheated with subordinates while in the military -- a criminal offense. Was he ever charged? Why not?
He married his second wife ONE MONTH after divorcing his first wife.
He tried to kill himself at least twice. What type of psychiatric care did he receive over this?
All facts that no one here wants to check. Yet a known slimebag makes an Internet video while working for McCain and the Post "checks" its lies, meaning opens the door for yet more Swift Boating this year.
Check the facts of McCain's awful treatment of women instead of doing stenography work about how he is "reaching out" to women!

Posted by: Christians Against McCain | June 16, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Nisey is posting from outside of America.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 16, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

It is not important as to Obama being a Muslim or a Christian
as a child. What is important are concerns regarding where Obama really stands on issues.
"Obama had backed Lieberman in the 2006 Democratic Senate primary in Connecticut. After he lost to Ned Lamont, an anti-war candidate..."
Now think about it. Is Obama pandering to those against the war or is he serious. The so-called "change" candidate raises many more important issues then his religion as a child. I personally can't vote for Obama or McCain. Guess I will be sittting this one out.

Posted by: Dave | June 16, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

how does this not get 4 pinnochios? Jeez...

Posted by: Monty | June 16, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"Nothing personal, but during WWII, would we have elected a Japanese-American as President."
Posted by: JakeD

If the person was qualified then I don't see any reason that a Japanese-American should have been excluded from that election. It's worth pointing out that despite our internment of many Japanese Americans in the USA during WWII, there was not a single documented case of disloyalty from Japanese-Americans.

Race/Religion are not proper ways to judge a person, and someday we can hopefully invent a large flock of flying boots that can detect when a person thinks something so stupid, such as judging a person by their race or religion, and upon detection swoops down and kicks them upside the head.

Posted by: Incarnal | June 16, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

It's telling that JakeD had no substantive response to anyone before he suddenly had to leave. That's too bad, because I'd really like to know just what 'evidence' would satisfy JakeD and his buddies that Obama is not and has never been a Muslim, nor has he 'lied' about it or covered it up. It's simply not possible to prove a negative: "prove to us you're NOT a Muslim" is right up there with "Prove to us you DON'T have WMDs or we'll invade" -- no proof will ever be good enough.

Nor does the Muslim religion consider him a Muslim. It is a false canard that the Muslim religion considers anyone with a Muslim father to be Muslim themselves, with NO exceptions. That is simply not true. Those who say otherwise show a vast, and unsurprising, ignorance of the religion, both factually and culturally (or maybe they're just committed to spreading falsehoods). That tenet applies to *adults* who choose of their own free will to convert to another religion in adulthood.

JakeD and others, you guys ain't foolin' anybody with your fake concern and declarations that you simply *must* know answers to *these* questions about Obama; the folks who are buying what you're selling aren't going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

They prefer to continue voting against their own best economic interests, apparently out of misplaced loyalty to the same people who have been greedily selling them down the river all these years.

Remember, JakeD, et al -- we are commanded to not bear false witness against our neighbors. That includes dissembling, gossip, and spreading false rumors.

Posted by: txgirl | June 16, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

No prominent Republicans in this country are saying anything like "Obama is a Muslim"...It is a stupid argument made by a small minorities of morons. The media loves to use the argument as a hammer against those who bring up legitimate questions about Obama and his closest friends.

Posted by: The Dude | June 16, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

The thread topic is "Was Obama Ever a Muslim?" If you'd rather not discuss that, fine by me.

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 12:22 PM
Was he? Reading this article shows no evidence of it. It only shows that his parents enrolled in him a school and registered his religion as Muslim when he was six years old. I personally know of protestants who registered their children as catholic in order to be admitted into a private catholic school - it was about the education. Being baptised does not make you a christian until you decide for yourself what diety or religion you open your heart to. Being baptised as a christian does not make one a christian as evidenced by the crap we been force fed for the past 7 years.

Posted by: Muslim-Who Cares | June 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Ijane - check There's a copy of his Birth Certificate there.

Posted by: BarackTheVote | June 16, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line, as I said above, only God knows for sure if Obama was a Muslim -- there's plenty of evidence he was RAISED Muslim contrary to his campaign's claims -- for all of you clamoring for MORE of my posts, never fear.

Posted by: JakeD | June 16, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Has Anonymous ever seen the movie "Wargames" where a much worse disaster was narrowly averted by an innocent teenager just trying to play a computer game?

Posted by: JakeD | June 13, 2008 8:01 PM

You can't be serious. It was a movie - Dumb A$$

Posted by: Anonymous | June 16, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

So, JakeD, 6-year olds are brainwashed with the Koran . . . in a Catholic school?

Guess you are equally ignorant of both Islam and Catholicism.

Posted by: drossless | June 16, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I mean, if you want to be technical, Obama was born a Muslim (By Islamic rules) by virtue of his father being Muslim, and later his step-father. However, there is ample evidence (ie. Obama attending a Catholic school) that he was not raised Muslim in any manner beyond secular. Therefore if Obama is referring to his faith when he says he was never a Muslim, why should he not be believed? His only practiced faith has been Christianity, not that it should really matter in America (freedom of religion, anyone?) And if people keep on using the word "madrassah" in a negative sense, they should know that it simply means "school" in arabic, implying a school below the level of college or university, which there is a different word for.

Posted by: JackAth | June 16, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I think minorities are unAmerican. What's more, they make me uncomfortable. I would like to go back to South Africa and sit in my peaceful, quiet bedroom, sipping the iced tea that was made for and brought to me by a sl- a servant,. By then I will be watching other happy slervants singing in their charming simple way as they spread fertilizer on my lands. Later, I intend to list all of my slavants alphabetized by their middle names, which I will capitalize so as to be easily able to quickly command them to satisfy some whim or other of mine. As the only white person on the property, I am confident that what I write here will go unread by the savages.

Posted by: JakeD | June 16, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Well, I understand both sides. McCain suporters wanting to make us believe that the fact is true, while the Obama fans have already concluded everything to be false, and if true, they won't simply buy it.

There is something wrong, however, about the FactChecker really "checked" the fact. Why not once and for all go to Indonesia and inquire. Ask those who are related to Obama and see what FactChecker can come up with. Both for the sake of Obama whose credibility is dwindling and McCain, whose minds are swirling.

FactChecker, if you want to check fact, you don't interpolate. Your method of checking is like a lawyer and of the same brand like the accuser.

Your style is more of debunking a gossip using another gossip. You're only triangulating! Instead of informing your readers, you further add to the theory of media blackout for Obama's issues making McCain's supporters believing on the accusation more while the Obama fans becoming more fanatic of their Idol.

Get real! If you don't have budget for checking facts the proper way, then stop calling it FactChecker.

Posted by: RealPolitics | June 16, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Obama lived in Indonesia a good part of his youth; this is a very Muslim country. Yes, his step father with whom he lived was a Muslim so Obama was constantly under the influence of Islam. Children are easily brainwashed by ALL religions. His relatives (with whom he visited) in Keyna are Muslims...brothers, sister, step grandmother, uncles, aunts...Of course he joined a Christian church when an adult; how can you easily get elected in the U.S.A. without being a Christian? Is he is sleeper? God help us if he is.

Posted by: Ronald Johnson | June 16, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

The far left and the far right both exagerate like crazy.

Obama is no more or less a muslim than John McCain is GW Bush. This is just the way presidential politics goes so roll with it. These are just the opening salvo's, wait til the fall.

Posted by: DCDave | June 16, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Barrack was a Muslim. In Islam a child's religion is patrilinear (passed on by the father), so since his real father was muslim, then Barrack was muslim. The jewish religion is matrilinear so if the mother is jewish the child is jewish.

Posted by: dman | June 16, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Long past when they were children, some presidents were supposedly playing with cocaine, some president-wanna-be's were calling their wives foul names in front of other people, and some presidents were playing sexual games with girls much younger than themselves while in office - all of the above purported to be 'good Christians'. Let's spend time talking on the oh-so-serious issues, not on lip-curling and incendiary gossip propogated by questionable dirt-mongers.

Stick to solid journalism and leave the crap to the crap tabloids.

Posted by: David | June 16, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse


there are countless americans with muslim or islamic names who do not, nor have they ever, consider themselves muslim. though it doesn't matter in the least if they ever were or not. if your claim is that he's lying because he has a muslim name or a father was a non-practicing muslim then that means that YOU are trying to operate on strict religious dogma...not him. what about all the muslims without muslim/arabic names? or all the christians and jews with the name ali, yusef, salma (selma), ibrahim, etc.

these are historic regional names that you'll find across cultures and religions in africa, asia, the middle east...and EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

get over it

Posted by: rasheedah | June 16, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Nothing's funnier than a bunch of no-nothings trying to determine the religion of a man who claims he's so-and-so. What would Jesus do? He'd laugh and all of you fools, that's what he'd do. Then he'd take a break to collect his breath, and he's start laughing all over again. Maybe the most ludicrous part of all of this is the fear the Right has of Muslims. Look out it's a Muslim, boo!!! Every Right-Winger who was reading this just dove behind their chairs.

Posted by: Chris | June 16, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

and please quit with all this anti-islam madness. islam is historically no more political or violent than it's christian and jewish counterparts. and all have violence in the name of religion in their pasts and presents.

it's quite of our most prominent and respected leaders kept a prized and well-read copy of the koran in his home (a mister thomas jefferson). he also had a black mistress. maybe he's a secret muslim race traitor!

or maybe all this speculation and jibber jabber is just absolutely ridiculous, childish, and completely ignorant

Posted by: rasheedah | June 16, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Wow, JakeD has entirely too much time to make a fool of himself.

When I was six, I really really hated kneeling in church. Of that I am sure. Anything else I do not remember.

Posted by: somnamblst | June 16, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

JakeD: What sad, pitiful view of reality will you rely on when Barack Obama becomes president next January?

Whatever it is, in YOUR world, Barack Hussein Obama won't be president - but for the rest of us in the US, he will be.

And yes, his middle name will still be Hussein. And his first name will still be Barack, and that will still mean "Blessed." I'm sure that pisses you off to no end.

But it's always hard to find things to believe in, when your mind is closed, eh, Jake?

Posted by: Dennis Berry | June 16, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Not that I care what he was, but I am the same age as Obama and Catholics did not and do not pray four times a day.

What I do care about is Obama's slippery relationship to the truth. I don't think he knows who or what he is, and that is a problem because a leader must first know himself at all costs.

Posted by: Chicago1 | June 16, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

He was born to Muslim father and by default of the Religous Law of Islam he is Muslim. Had his mother had him baptized as a child than the Quoran would say differently but from Mr. Obama's own account that never happened. So is it OK for Obama to say he was never a Muslim because he was six when that ledger entry was made. The records at the school would not have been signed by his Step-father as women were responsible for educating in all things but religion as Indonesia is a Mulsim State. So his mother most likely enrolled him in the Catholic School and put him down as Muslim, hard and conviently so, to prove. Since she was a secularist she wouldn't have any problem making her 6 year old worship in the Catholic ways, attend Cathecism and list him as Muslim. So he was a Catholic Muslim, and now he is a "christian" who has openly lied to get since getting into congress - "I solemenly swear to uphold the duties of my office." He hasn't because he has spent two year running for president.

The other funny thing that goes along with this "ledger" entry that no one has mentioned is the date. What was the date on the ledger. Catholics are sticklers for good records (as are most religions) and if he were in the three grades there he would have been Alter Boy age the time he left and clearly would have been declaring his own religion.

As far as the Fact Checker goes he rates 5 long noses for his lack of providing facts. The article was exactly what is claims to be disproving. Some truth with a lot of BS to bolster it.

By the way, why is the ONLY birth certificate available for Obama the one on his web-site? By Federal and State Law in Hawaii it has be in public records and it isn't. So if his people want to prove the truth simply have him request the state to open the "official" original to the public.

Posted by: Eb Jeb | June 16, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

i wonder, what is the problem if obama is a muslim, is it shame?
now george .w.bush is a fanatic christian, why no body raised this question?
second , the american constitution is secular, what will obama do if he is muslim?

Posted by: abduali | June 16, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

My husband and I spent many years living and working abroad. In Iran our children went to Iranian schools, and part of the curriculum was the study of the Koran. When the children were older we sent them to school in England. Along with their fellow classmates they attended Anglican services. They they became neither Anglican nor Moslem. Just because Barack Obama lived in a Moslem society for a time does not make him a Moslem. Nor does him father being a Moslem make him a Moslem. My parents were Catholics. I am an atheist.

Posted by: Anita Mason | June 16, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

As an american born muslim I take great umbrage that somehow being a muslim has some sort of stigma to it,as if it's beneath the dignity of an american to be a muslim-I am raising three children to be proud muslim-americans and this constant drumbeat of stigmatizing muslims truly shows the ignorance and backward thinking that has gotten america in the predicament that it finds itself in today-despised and hated throughout the world,and not only the muslim world,but,the whole world!It's truly sad when the presumptive nominee for president of the united states can't even take a picture with me because he would be considered a muslim!One day that will change!Look at the numbers!!!

Posted by: 'Umar Abdul Haqq | June 16, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Obama's real father was a Muslim by blood though he denounced it supposedly. Obama is by blood - Muslim. Barrack HUSSEIN Obama's church of 20 YEARS embraced Farrakhan (gave him big award - Wright and Phleger openly praised Farakhan) passed out Hamas and Hezbollah writings, and preached hatred for the United States. Rev. Wright is also an ex-Muslim.

They sure don't look or sound like Christians to me in that church. Could it all be just a coverup ?

Posted by: OBAMAJAMESCONE | June 16, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Here's a better question? Did McCain dump his first wife because she was disfigured in a car accident and then later call his current wife a "trollop" and "c*nt" because he was irritated by something she said?

Posted by: HonestAbe | June 16, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

The real issue here is that Obama intentionally lied to the American people with respect to his Muslim heritage. He lied in order to get votes. Just what we need, another President that will say or do anything to get elected -- a Bush clone. This is simply another example of why Obama cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 16, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

find any excuse they can from "he was a Muslim" to "he attended a radical Black Christian Church"!

Posted by: Obama-Junkie

Are you suggesting he did not attend and use a radical church to attack his opponent. If it was not radical why did he throw it under the bus. Don't believe I would have made that dumb statement.

Posted by: Chief | June 16, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse


DEMOCRAT .................. $24 ... BARREL OF OIL


REPUBLICAN ................ $145 ... BARREL OF OIL







Posted by: Yes We Can Restore Our Constitution | June 16, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Here's a better question? Did McCain dump his first wife because she was disfigured in a car accident and then later call his current wife a "trollop" and "c*nt" because he was irritated by something she said?

Posted by: HonestAbe

Is that kinda like Obama's wife has never been proud of being an American until her husband became a credible candidate. I'm surprised he hasn't thrown her under the bus. Really not, she would whup Ol Wussy's butt.

Posted by: Chief | June 16, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully if today racism is unacceptable, some day bigotry based on religious beliefs will also be unacceptable.

Posted by: Six | June 16, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Very good political ad. Thanks for the free publicity, Dobbsy.

We are playing you for a stooge and you don't even know it!

Posted by: KR | June 16, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: DEM TO IND | June 16, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

@ JakeD:

you wrote "Nothing personal, but during WWII, would we have elected a Japanese-American as President."

A person's ethnic heritage is perhaps more visibly apparent than one's religion, so this is a poor question.

Moreover, since 1945 we have progressed as a society in terms of how important a factor race is in our relationships with other people. It is by no means a panoply of racial harmony, but there has been marked improvement. To prove it, Barack Obama is the presumptive Democratic party nominee for President of the United States.

Posted by: Piter | June 17, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse

also @ Jake D:

you wrote "By then I will be watching other happy slervants singing in their charming simple way as they spread fertilizer on my lands. Later, I intend to list all of my slavants alphabetized by their middle names, which I will capitalize so as to be easily able to quickly command them to satisfy some whim or other of mine. As the only white person on the property, I am confident that what I write here will go unread by the savages."

You're very boring when you're so obvious.

Posted by: Piter | June 17, 2008 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Dispelling the Muslim myth once and for all. Oops!!!

Posted by: argo | June 17, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

An older article from Obama mouth piece

Posted by: D | June 17, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse

I have a great idea. Instead of posing the question as if it had some validity, why not debunk first. You spread the rumor and then denounce it. This maddeningly goes on throughout the media. Fox and A. Cooper do the same thing. Here's a rumor about Obama--- but it is not true. What do you think the casual reader or looker will take away from your headline? Oh, I know. Obama was a muslim, I think? Fact checker, could you think a little while your are checking, please and put fact before the rumor.

Posted by: robert thornton | June 17, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse

At a meeting in his Pentagon office in early 1981, Secretary of the Navy John F. Lehman told Capt. John S. McCain III that he was about to attain his life ambition: becoming an admiral.... Mr. McCain declined the prospect of his first admiral's star to make a run for Congress, saying that he could 'do more good there,' Mr. Lehman recalled." So claimed the New York Times in a front-page article on May 29 this year.

This story is highly improbable for several reasons, not least of all because John McCain himself has always told a very different story about his stalled naval career. For example, on page 9 of his memoir Worth The Fighting For, McCain writes:

"Several months before my father died, I informed him that I was leaving the navy. I am sure he had gotten word of my decision from friends in the Pentagon. I had been summoned to see the CNO, Admiral Heyward, who told me I was making a mistake.... His attempt to dissuade me encouraged me to believe that I might have made admiral had I remained in the navy, a prospect that remained an open question in my mind.... Some of my navy friends believed I could earn my star; others doubted it.... When I told my father of my intention, he did not remonstrate me.... But I knew him well enough to know that he was disappointed. For when I left him that day, alone in his study, I took with me his hope that I might someday become the first son and grandson of four-star admirals to achieve the same distinction. That aspiration was well beyond my reach by the time I made my decision...."
McCain's father died on March 22, 1981. McCain retired from the Navy within a week. He wrote about his retirement soon thereafter. McCain never mentioned the alleged offer of an admiralship by Lehman in any of his books, nor in the numerous interviews McCain gave during his first run for the presidency in 1999-2000.

Furthermore, articles written during the current presidential campaign quote McCain's closest friends about McCain's failure to be promoted to admiral before he retired from the Navy. For example, in an April 26, 2008, National Journal cover story, William Cohen (then a Senator, subsequently Secretary of Defense and the best man at McCain's second wedding) recounts that McCain "knew his career in the Navy was limited." Former Senator Gary Hart, who served as a groomsman at McCain's 1980 wedding, says in the National Journal story that he had been told "that [McCain] was not going to receive a star and not going to become an admiral. I think that was the deciding point for him to retire from the Navy."

John Lehman doesn't figure in any accounts of McCain's naval career, probably because Lehman was appointed Secretary of the Navy less than two months before McCain retired. The New York Times didn't note this, or the pertinent fact that John Lehman is currently serving as National Security Adviser to McCain's 2008 presidential campaign. Two admirals in the Times story confirmed Lehman's claim, but for unknown reasons the Times, in violation of its own guidelines, accorded them off-the-record status that makes it impossible to assess their motives and credibility.

The New York Times' front-page story about McCain declining promotion to admiral lacks credibility for other reasons as well. For example, McCain had been promoted to captain on August 1, 1979, so he wouldn't have been due for another promotion by March of 1981.

Retired Admiral Peter Booth, who was promoted to rear admiral in 1981, flatly disputes Lehman's claim about McCain. "No, John McCain was not selected for flag rank, for admiral. With all due respect, I think I was selected that same year, and I have never heard anything even remotely like that. To begin with, John Lehman did not select Navy flag officers. That was done with a very august selection board headed by a four-star admiral. The Secretary of the Navy does not appoint. He is in the approval chain, but he is not on the committee.

"I have never heard a story, even remotely, that John McCain was going to be a flag officer. I was early selected for captain, in 1976, and I was regular selected for admiral in 1981. So it's probably five or six years, I guess. I've never heard of anybody being selected for flag rank within three or four years of making captain, ever."

Retired Admiral John R. Batzler, former commanding officer of the U.S.S. Nimitz, also promoted to rear admiral in 1981, agrees with Retired Admiral Booth.

"I made rear admiral in about five years. I wasn't selected early, and I wasn't selected late. I find it incredible that someone made that statement that John Lehman told John McCain he was going to be promoted to admiral two years after he made captain. First of all, telling him at all is not kosher, but we all know the Secretary of the Navy does what he damn well pleases, in particular John Lehman. This whole idea that John Lehman told John McCain he was going to be promoted to flag two years after he made captain sounds preposterous to me."

All of the evidence, indications and comments that the New York Times published a flattering lie about McCain's career on its front page are easy for John McCain to refute. All he needs to do is sign Standard Form 180, which authorizes the Navy to send an undeleted copy of McCain's naval file to news organizations. A long paper trail about McCain's pending promotion to admiral would be prominent in his file. To date, McCain's advisers have released snippets from his file, but under constrained viewing circumstances. There's no reason McCain's full file shouldn't be released immediately. There's also a recent precedent for McCain signing the simple form that leads to full disclosure: Senator John Kerry signed the 180 waiver, which made his entire naval file public.

The Navy may claim that it already released McCain's record to the Associated Press on May 7, 2008 in response to the AP's Freedom of Information Act request. But the McCain file the Navy released contained 19 pages -- a two-page overview and 17 pages detailing Awards and Decorations. Each of these 17 pages is stamped with a number. These numbers range from 0069 to 0636. When arranged in ascending order, they precisely track the chronology of McCain's career. It seems reasonable to ask the Navy whether there are at least 636 pages in McCain's file, of which 617 weren't released to the Associated Press.

Some of the unreleased pages in McCain's Navy file may not reflect well upon his qualifications for the presidency. From day one in the Navy, McCain screwed-up again and again, only to be forgiven because his father and grandfather were four-star admirals. McCain's sense of entitlement to privileged treatment bears an eerie resemblance to George W. Bush's.

Despite graduating in the bottom 1 percent of his Annapolis class, McCain was offered the most sought-after Navy assignment -- to become an aircraft carrier pilot. According to military historian John Karaagac, "'the Airdales,' the air wing of the Navy, acted and still do, as if unrivaled atop the naval pyramid. They acted as if they owned, not only the Navy, but the entire swath of blue water on the earth's surface." The most accomplished midshipmen compete furiously for the few carrier pilot openings. After four abysmal academic years at Annapolis distinguished only by his misdeeds and malfeasance, no one with a record resembling McCain's would have been offered such a prized career path. The justification for this and subsequent plum assignments should be documented in McCain's naval file.

McCain's file should also include records and analytic reviews of McCain's subsequent sub-par performances. Here are a few cited in two highly favorable biographies, both titled John McCain, one by Robert Timberg and the other by John Karaagac.


"[A]fter a European fling with the tobacco heiress, John McCain reported to flight school at Pensacola in August 1958.... [H]is performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it. What he loved was the kick-the-tire, start-the-fire, scarf-in-the-wind life of a naval aviator. ...One Saturday morning, as McCain was practicing landings, his engine quit and his plane plunged into Corpus Christi. Knocked unconscious by the impact, he came to as the plane settled to the bottom....McCain was an adequate pilot, but he had no patience for studying dry aviation manuals.... His professional growth, though reasonably steady, had its troubled moments. Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines, which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.... [In 1965] he flew a trainer solo to Philadelphia for the Army-Navy game. Flying by way of Norfolk, he had just begun his descent over unpopulated tidal terrain when the engine died. 'I've got a flameout,' he radioed. He went through the standard relight procedures three times. At one thousand feet he ejected, landing on the deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees."
Adds Karaagac:

"In his memoir, everything becomes a kind of game of adolescent brinksmanship, how much can one press the limits of the acceptable and elude the powers that be....The [fighter jocks'] ethos of exaggerated, almost aggressive sociability becomes an end in itself and an excuse for license. There is a tendency for people, not simply to believe their own mythology but, indeed, to exaggerate it.... Fighter jocks, like politicians around their campaign contributions, often press the limits of the acceptable. It is a type of mild corruption that takes place in a highly privileged atmosphere, where restraints are loosened and excuses made....McCain gives some hint in his memoirs about where he stood in the hierarchy among carrier flyers. Instead of the sleek and newer Phantoms and Crusaders, McCain flew the dependable Douglas A-4 Skyhawk in an attack, not a fighter squadron. He was thus on the lower end of the flying totem pole."
The genius of McCain's mythmaking is his perceived humility amid perpetual defiance. Having been a rebel without cause, and often a rebel without consequences, McCain apparently was not surprised when his Vietnamese captors went relatively easy on him compared to his fellow POWs. The Vietnamese military secretly and frequently filmed the American POWs to learn their propensities. Col. Pham Van Hoa of the Vietnamese People's Army Film Department was in charge of the filming. Asked recently for his dominant impression of McCain, the now-retired Van Hoa said that McCain "seemed superior to other prisoners." How so? "Superior in attitude towards them."

But when Mark Salter, McCain's closest aide and co-author, was asked by the Arizona New Times about the first McCain memoir, Faith of My Fathers, that he was then working on, Salter said "the book will showcase a humble McCain. When I worked on this book with him, he just kept saying, 'Other guys had it a lot worse. I think they took it easier on me because of who my dad was. . . . When they tied me in ropes, they'd roll my sleeve up to give it a little padding between the rope and my bicep, you know, little things I noticed. The only really hard time I had was when I didn't go home, and then it only lasted a week, and sometimes I felt braver, I felt I could get away with more.'"

Is McCain now getting away with more by hiding his official history and by having his national security adviser inflate McCain's resume with a bogus promotion to admiral humbly declined? If so, McCain may be attempting to hide why the Navy was in fact slow to promote him upwards despite his suffering as a POW and his distinguished naval heritage.

One possible reason: After McCain had returned from Vietnam as a war hero and was physically rehabilitated, he was urged by his medical caretakers and military colleagues never to fly again. But McCain insisted on going up. As Carl Bernstein reported in Vanity Fair, he piloted an ultra-light, single propeller plane -- and crashed another time. His fifth loss of a plane has vanished from public records, but should be a subject of discussion in his Navy file. It wouldn't be surprising if his naval superiors worried that McCain was just too defiant, too reckless and too crash prone.

Regardless, McCain owes it to the country to release his complete naval records so that American voters can see his documented history and make an informed decision.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 17, 2008 3:31 AM | Report abuse

There are four things I can't stand when they are mixed togeter: Democracy, capitalism, religion and the United States. Why? It is those three things that is undermining the world at large when they work in a concerted fashion. The US brand of economy and democracy forces society into economic slavery based on the assumption that the masses will remain igmorant.

Now, what you you been taught about communism? Try this: Communism is the idea of a free society with no division or alienation, where humanity is free from oppression and scarcity. A communist society would have no governments, countries, or class divisions. In Marxism-Leninism, Socialism is the intermediate system between capitalism and communism, when the government is in the process of changing the means of ownership from privatism, to collective ownership.

We all know that communism has never worked this way, but rather power always ended up in the hands of few because of greed and oppression. But, this is not what we have been taught. We have come to believe it is evil and often it did not work because MAINLY this country has Meddled with that process around the world.

What we have been taught is that communism is evil. This is how DEMOCRACY has enslaved the people: through ignorance.

Now we have Theocracy. Theocracy is a form of government in which a 'god' or 'deity' is recognized as the supreme civil ruler. For believers, theocracy is a form of government in which divine power governs an earthly human state, either in a personal incarnation or, more often, via religious institutional representatives (i.e., a church), replacing or dominating civil government. Theocratic governments enact theonomic laws.

We all know that this form of government does not work as well because the entire world would have to be in agreement and guess what "Religions can't agree with one another internally, let alone agree with other religions." Religion is responsible for more suffering and oppression than any other form of organization.

So, when we elect someone this time, let's get it right. Let's elect someone who has had exposure, varied exposure to different thought processes, cultures, society and so forth. Someone who takes a measured approach in thier decision making and will not be brow beaten into making decisions, or based those decision on fear, ignorance, religious prophecy etc. Someone who is willing to talk with those who love the United States and those who hate it. Because those who hate the United States, believe it on not, actually have some very valid concerns and reasons that can be justified.

It's one thing this listen to those who are in agreement with you. Any damned fool can do that.

Listening to those who don't. Now that TAKES WORK. But, that is a true LEADER. A leader listen to others, thinks reasons and makes decision based on what is good for the entire society or organization on a smaller scale.

Barrack Obama is the first politician I have seen in a long time who takes this approach and mark my words if he is not elected this time and he doesn't build an adminstration with the same approach he brings to the table, this country will suffer in a way that it will not recover from.

We can't keep making enemies, fighting expensive wars that are killing us economically and compromising the security of our nation by thumbing our noses at most of the world and trotting around the globe meddling in everyone else affairs because we think we have a superior form of government.

We don't, jsut look at some of the ignorance that has been posted previously.

We elected George Bush in this same manner and now we are trying to elect John McCain with the same ignorance and that is FAR from superior.

Posted by: Kenneth Wills | June 17, 2008 3:44 AM | Report abuse


Communism on the left -- and totalianism on the right -- killed far more in just the 20th Century than religion. "Religion" is not perfect either but at least cut it the same slack you do for Communism BTW: the United States is not a "theocracy" if that's what you are saying. Democracies have not "enslaved" people since 1865. Please don't tell me you are one of those "All we have to do is have no enemies" types.

Robert Thornton:

The Fact Checker purports to "debunk" the question, and you are still upset because the headline does not read "Our Glorious Savior Was NOT Muslim"?


As I've pointed out several times, above, only God can dispel the Muslim myth once and for all.

Piter (and Six)

I did not write about "happy servants". As for the question I did write, any analogy is less than perfect comparison. Nonetheless, it is a good analogy even controlled for racism. Would YOU have trusted a Japanese-American with the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Honest Abe (as well as "Christians" Against McCain and GOP Street Against McBush if you are different):

I would be more than happy to discuss McCain's wife on the next McCain thread.

Umar and abduali:

For the last time, I would have no problem voting for an HONEST Muslim. Perhaps you should ask the Obama campaign why they are ashamed.

Anita Mason:

Have you, or your parents, ever lied about how your children were raised? If not, I expect you can see the difference.

Dennis Berry:

Barack Hussein Obama will not be sworn in as President on January 20, 2009.

Ronald Johnson:

Good questions.


There is certainly "freedom of religion" in America but not "freedom to lie". Also, there is evidence that he attended mosque. Thank you for admitting that Obama was born Muslim though.


I believe my point was that teaching ONLY the Koran (or the Bible for that matter) would indeed be "brainwashing".


Is it a forgery?


There is evidence he attended mosque and was being raised Muslim above. I don't know if that all adds up to whether he was indeed Muslim. He is denying that he was even raised Muslim though.


I hope this was "substantive" enough for you. Rarely do I get requests for MORE posts. The "evidence" that would satisfy me (I can't speak for my "buddies" whomever you think they might be) would be a childhood exactly like mine and most Americans -- zero personal contact with Islam -- otherwise, only God knows for sure. If Obama would agree to sit down for a sworn deposition, I would be able to get beyond a preponderance of the evidence at least. There are plenty of other "negatives" that can be proven as well. For instance, I am not female. Also, if you think I've posted "false witness" may I suggest you are reading fake JakeD?


Short of your flying boot testing to pick a President, we can use whatever criteria we want in a secret voting booth. One reason I would not have voted for a Japanese-American in that election was the Manhattan Project. Of course, that's with perfect 20/20 hindsight. Let's hope we don't make the same type of mistake with Obama.

Black and Bitter like Coffee:

Sorry to disappoint. God willing, I am not going anywhere.

If I missed anyone else's HONEST question, please let me know what it was.

Posted by: JakeD | June 17, 2008 6:04 AM | Report abuse

Check ou the phony birth certificate on Obama's Fight the Smears web site

In 1961, RELIGION was on birth certificates...where is his?

This so-called certificate is NOT certified by the issuing authority!!!!

We are NOT stupid......just because you post something as a Smear does NOT correct the SMEAR! The lie answer at all!!!

Posted by: Steve | June 17, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Two words:

Sleeper cell

Posted by: George | June 17, 2008 7:04 PM | Report abuse

"I believe my point was that teaching ONLY the Koran (or the Bible for that matter) would indeed be "brainwashing".

Then you stated it very poorly. *I* believe that you are once again implying what you are too cowardly to explicitly defend.

Posted by: drossless | June 17, 2008 8:15 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Not my fault if you can't understand the words "nothing but".

Posted by: JakeD | June 17, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, I trust you can prove you never were a Muslim. Say, by being brought up in a seminary.

If not, by the Fact Checker´s standards, you live in a glass house.

Posted by: Helen | June 18, 2008 6:03 AM | Report abuse

Just his name alone should be an eye opener. No US president should have a copy of the Koran in his nightstand. This isn't about black and white, I hate to say it but I wish it was, because at least we understand it. This is about Americans and Muslim's and the fact they want us dead. So lets go ahead and give this guy the keys to everything. We are going to need a new name for this type sleeper Cell.

Posted by: Ron | June 18, 2008 6:19 AM | Report abuse


I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim he owns a copy of the Koran. It would be irrelevant anyways.


Rest assured, using The Fact Checker's standard, I was never registered Muslim and therefore could easily meet the same deference granted herein.

Posted by: JakeD | June 18, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse

For anyone else who has forgotten / didn't read the article, Dobbs bought the "explanation" that Barack Hussein Obama is not, and was never, a Muslim. He even gave Floyd Brown THREE Pinocchios!!! You Obamaniacs are really upset about that last little Pinocchio, aren't you. Don't even DARE to question the Savior?

Posted by: JakeD | June 18, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Well they are just saying out loud what we all already suspect, that Obama is not truthful and will flip flop and lie about a lot of issues to try to be the first black president. Sorry but he should have changed his Muslim name if he didn't want to be sen as a Muslim. It doesn't matter if ads come out exposing Obamas deceptions, we already don't trust him.

Posted by: Dems for McCain | June 18, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

There's a lot of bigoted, ignorant fools out today...
Nothing like a little Obama and Muslim to get you knuckledraggers excited. So predictable. It's going to be hilarious when he crushes McCain in November.

Posted by: John | June 18, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse is reporting that Obama campaign volunteers asked supporters in Arabic headscarves to move out of camera shot.

Posted by: JakeD | June 18, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

It AIN'T a lie!

That's all that seems to be important to those here. Read his book as described above and you'll find out what he thought before becoming a Christian.

He NEVER considered himself a Muslim whether or not some 'conservative muslim" might consider him to be is totally irrelevant. So if he never thought of himself as a Muslim, why would he need to say he was? THAT would be a lie!

But MUCH MORE importantly -- this man is our ONLY hope. If you want the radical Muslims to continue to work to terrorize our country, just vote for McCain. He will insure that people's of different faiths all over the world will hate and vilify our country far into the future.

Until we can learn to have some sort of dialogue and understanding of those who are different from ourselves, rather than digging for fanciful lies that stir up hate, our country will remain in deep and dire danger of attack. Fear creates hate which leads to more hate in return. And believe me America has create a vast reservoir of both fear and hatred these past 7 years. We MUST have a change.

Posted by: Kit Eakle | June 18, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it is important that he is lieing NOW about it. THIS is WHY!!! most people in this country do not trust him! He was a registered Muslin at that time, but now, WHO CARES ! is ONLY the lieing he is doing NOW!!!!! about it that matters to people. He appears to be all smoke and mirrors. One doesn't know WHAT to believe about him. THAT is NOT the kind of person we want in the White House......GAWD! we just spent 8 years with TOTAL SMOKE & MIRRORS! He also has NO EXPERIENCE, and nothing he says is going to make people BELIEVE he has experience when THAT is easily checked!

Posted by: librairie | June 18, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Some idiot posted something about ignorant immigrants from southern Mexico. Why go that far? hOW ABOUT HILLBILLIES from Appalachia or southern white trash and their reknowned ignorance and racism? Don't bring illegal immigration into this arguement, whether Obama is a Muslim. It has no relevance. Ignorance is equal opportunity regardless of color, race, creed or national origin. Some comments that I have read prove this.

Posted by: al garza | June 18, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Howard Dean Schemes To Shut Down Democratic Convention--June 12, 2008 (LPAC)--Billionaire George Soros's lap dog DNC Howard Dean is trying to shut the 18 million loyal Democratic and independent voters who supported Hillary Clinton out of the Denver convention altogether. In addition to reports that the Obama campaign is pushing to actually unseat all the Clinton delegates and replace them with Obama loyalists, there are more recent reports that Howard Dean is trying to prevent any balloting for the Democratic nominee, and instead is trying to just ram through a voice vote for Obama, without a state-by-state roll call. Even after the two parties turned their nominating conventions into ersatz rock concerts, it was always the case that the losing candidates were all given the opportunity to speak from the podium, and a full vote taken, before the anointed candidate was confirmed. Usually, in a gesture of party unity, after the first ballot vote was taken, a motion would be presented to endorse the candidate by unanimous consent. These traditions actually did have the effect of unifying the party, often after a tight and hotly contested primary season, and at least conveyed the idea that the party came out of the convention unified behind the Presidential and VP nominees, going into the November general elections. Clearly, between the Obama campaign and Howard Dean, there is a great deal of worry that the vicious campaign that was run against Hillary Clinton has created a level of fury, which could explode at the convention. Soros, Dean, Pelosi, Reid, and the Obama, have generated much bad blood that Hillary Clinton supporters are turned into Hillary Clinton fanatics. According to one well-placed Washington source, if 20% of the Hillary Clinton voters sit out the November elections, a loss of 4 million potential Obama voters--IF, Obama wound up with the nomination in the first place. That could spell certain doom for Obama's already-doomed candidacy.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

The Larry Sinclair Saga

By Larry JohnsongravatarcloseAuthor: Larry Johnson Name: Larry Johnson
About: Larry C. Johnson is CEO and co-founder of BERG Associates, LLC, an international business-consulting firm with expertise combating terrorism and investigating money laundering. Mr. Johnson works with US military commands in scripting terrorism exercises, briefs on terrorist trends, and conducts undercover investigations on counterfeiting, smuggling and money laundering. Mr. Johnson, who worked previously with the Central Intelligence Agency and U.S. State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism, is a recognized expert in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, crisis and risk management. Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, National Public Radio, ABC's Nightline, NBC's Today Show, the New York Times, CNN, Fox News, and the BBC. Mr. Johnson has authored several articles for publications, including Security Management Magazine, the New York Times, and The Los Angeles Times. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world, including the Center for Research and Strategic Studies at the Ecole Polytechnique in Paris, France. He represented the U.S. Government at the July 1996 OSCE Terrorism Conference in Vienna, Austria. From 1989 until October 1993, Larry Johnson served as a Deputy Director in the U.S. State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism. He managed crisis response operations for terrorist incidents throughout the world and he helped organize and direct the US Government's debriefing of US citizens held in Kuwait and Iraq, which provided vital intelligence on Iraqi operations following the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Mr. Johnson also participated in the investigation of the terrorist bombing of Pan Am 103. Under Mr. Johnson's leadership the U.S. airlines and pilots agreed to match the US Government's two million-dollar reward. From 1985 through September 1989 Mr. Johnson worked for the Central Intelligence Agency. During his distinguished career, he received training in paramilitary operations, worked in the Directorate of Operations, served in the CIA's Operation's Center, and established himself as a prolific analyst in the Directorate of Intelligence. In his final year with the CIA he received two Exceptional Performance Awards. Mr. Johnson is a member of the American Society for Industrial Security. He taught at The American University's School of International Service (1979-1983) while working on a Ph.D. in political science. He has a M.S. degree in Community Development from the University of Missouri (1978), where he also received his B.S. degree in Sociology, graduating Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa in 1976.See Authors Posts (667) on June 18, 2008 at 10:13 PM in Current Affairs

Up to this point we have stayed away from the Larry Sinclair story. Larry alleges he did drugs and had consensual sex with Barack Obama. The Obama folks have gone crazy over the Sinclair allegations. Larry had a press conference today at the National Press Club. It was well attended. Shortly after the press conference ended, Larry was arrested. (I am sure this will encourage other folks to come forward and speak out (snark).) Here is Larry's statement. Decide for yourself.

Good afternoon, my name is Larry Sinclair and I am a former recreational drug user and trafficker, a convicted felon for crimes of forgery, bad checks and theft by check. I am also an American who loves this country and I cannot stay silent regarding Barack Obama knowing what I know.

Today I will discharge my obligation as a citizen to witness this knowledge to you and raise questions for others to investigate and consider. I am going to briefly describe my background, my experience with Senator Obama in 1999, what appears to me to be a coordinated effort to discredit me and finally a list of questions. After this brief statement, I will take and try to answer any reasonable questions.


I am 46 years old and I currently reside in Duluth, MN. I am a US Citizen, and I have made mistakes in my lifetime. I have been convicted and served prison sentences for writing bad checks, forging checks, using stolen credit card numbers in Arizona, Florida and Colorado. These event's occurred over twenty (20) years ago between 1980 thru 1986. After going public on the internet with these claims against Senator Obama earlier this year, I became aware of a warrant out of Florida from 1986 which I have resolved and it has now been dismissed. I also have an active "Colorado Only" warrant for alleged "Theft and Forgery". I am not ignoring this warrant but am addressing it with the Court in Colorado as well as with the DA's office. I have a pending motion to dismiss this warrant which I am waiting to have calendared by the Colorado Court.

I have lived and worked under three different names. My birth name is Lawrence W. Sinclair. Later on, I had my name legally changed first to La-Rye A. Silvas, and then La-Rye Vizcarra Avila. The last two were legal name changes granted by the court in Penal County Superior Court, Florence Arizona. I legally returned to my birth name in the Fremont County District court, Canon City, Colorado in 1997. Obama Incident

I flew out of Colorado Springs, Colorado to Chicago on November 2, 1999, arriving in O'Hare early in the morning of November 3, 1999. I went to the Chicago area to attend the graduation of my god son (my best friend's son) from basic training from the Great Lakes Navy Training Center. I made reservations at the Comfort Inn and Suites in Gurnee, IL based on location to the Navy Training center. On November 5, 1999, I hired the services of Five Star Limo. I had hired them for both November 5 and November 6. On November 6, 1999, I asked the limo driver - whose name I now reveal for the first time - Paramjit Multani, if he knew anyone who would like to socialize and show me Chicago. Paramjit Multani understood that I was not looking for someone who knew Chicago and would enjoy socializing. Paramjit Multani said he knew someone who was a friend of his.

On November 6, 1999 after picking me up at the Hotel in Gurnee- and this is significant - Paramjit Multani used his cellphone to make a call. That call was made to then-Illinois State Senator Barack Obama to set up an introduction between me and Senator Obama. Upon arriving at the bar and exiting the Limo, Senator Obama was standing next to Paramjit Multani and I was introduced to Senator Obama. Later that evening at a bar which I believe was called Alibis, I mention I could use a line or two to wake up. Senator Obama asked me if I was referring to "coke" and after stating I was, Obama stated he could purchase cocaine for me and then made a telephone call - and this too is significant -- from his cellphone to a presently unknown individual during which Senator Obama arranged the cocaine purchase.

Senator Obama and I then departed the bar in my limousine and proceeded to an unknown location where Senator Obama exited the limousine with two hundred fifty dollars ($250) I had given him and returned a short while later with an "eightball" of cocaine which he gave to me. I did ingest a couple of lines of cocaine, and shortly thereafter Senator Obama produced a glass cylinder pipe and packet of crack cocaine from his pants pocket and Obama smoked the crack cocaine. I performed fellatio on Senator Obama in the limousine during the time Senator Obama was smoking crack cocaine, after which I had the driver take me to the my hotel, The Comfort Suits, Gurnee, Illinois.

The following day, November 7, 1999, Senator Obama appeared at my hotel room where we again ingested cocaine and I again performed fellatio on Senator Obama. Significantly, both the driver's telephone call to Senator Obama and his call to the drug dealer should appear on the driver's and Senator Obama's cellphone billing statements. Fall 2007

In September 2007 I contacted the Presidential Campaign of Barack H. Obama, to request solely that Senator Obama publicly correct his stated drug use record to reflect his use of crack cocaine with me in November 1999. When I made that first contact I left with the Presidential Campaign of Senator Barack H. Obama a telephone number for the campaign to return my call. The first number I provided was a Texas cell phone number. From the period of Labor day weekend 2007 through November 18, 2007 I did rovide a total of four (4) different call back numbers to the Obama campaign, as I had moved and had changed the numbers to reflect locally my place of residence at the time. In late September to early October 2007, I received a call from a male who identified himself as a "Mr. Young" stating he was calling in regards to calls I had made to the Obama campaign. This first call was in fact an attempt by "Mr. Young" to obtained from me the identities of anyone I had contacted concerning my 1999 allegations against Senator Obama. This first called shocked me in that this "Mr. Young" asked me why I had not asked Senator Obama to disclose the sexual encounters I had with Mr. Obama in 1999. I was shocked as I had never mentioned to the campaign or anyone working for the campaign any sexual encounters as my call was prompted by drug allegations only. The call ended with "Mr. Young" stating I would hear from someone in a few days.

In mid to late October 2007, I received a second call from this "Mr. Young" at which time I clearly became aware that this individual was personally involved with Senator Obama rather than just an employee of his campaign. The tone of the conversation had a sexual nature. "Mr. Young" did not once advise me how he obtained my phone number which by this time had now changed to a Delaware number.

In late October 2007, I received a text message from the gentleman identified as "Mr. Young" in which he stated he was intimately involved with Senator Obama and that Obama was discussing with him and his pastor how to publicly acknowledge Senator Obama's drug use in 1999 and that Obama wanted to be sure I had not discussed the sexual encounters or drug incidents with any media at that time.

In mid to late November 2007, in another text message from "Mr. Young" , he advised me that Senator Obama will publicly correct his statement as to he last time he used drugs and I did not need to concern myself with publicly disclosing it myself. The last contact I had with "Mr. Young" was in early December 2007 when he made it clear to me that Senator Obama had no intentions of publicly acknowledging his 1999 use of crack cocaine and that "Mr. Young" was in fact doing nothing more than milking information from me for Senator Obama's use.

I later learned that a Donald Young was the choir director of Reverend Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ - Obama's now-former church -- and was openly a homosexual. I also learned that he was murdered on December 23, 2007. I have cooperated with the Chicago Police Department in this matter by providing them the telephone numbers I was using during the fall of 2007 and I release them now publically in the hope that someone may be able to connect the dots between these telephone numbers and Mr. Young. Those numbers are: 954-758-1105; 956-758-1885; 956-758-8002; 302-685-7175; 612-466-1043. 2008

In what I now realize was a naive and un-counseled decision, I posted in January 2008 a video on where I related the above information regarding my liaisons with Senator Obama in 1999. The response was overwhelming and I quickly became the recipient of what in hindsight appears to have been a coordinated attack on my character with ever increasing falsehoods circulating on the internet.

In response I agreed to take a polygraph test from The results of that test have been partially revealed to the end of labeling me a liar and taken as gospel by all. I would like to make the following comments about that polygraph test. I have now come to understand that lie detectors are junk science at best which is why courts of law refuse to use them. A review of the results by George W. Maschke, Ph.D. of raises serious questions about the legitimacy of the examination. Indeed, overlooked by almost everyone is that's own examiner, Dr. Gordon Barland, observed that on the drug question regarding Senator Obama that the computerized score found that there was less than a 1% probability of deception by me. That's about as high a passing score as one can possibly attain.

Finally, in February 2008 I was told anonymously that Dan Parisi of received $750,000 from the Obama campaign through AKR Media to organize an effort to publically discredit me. When I confronted Dan Parisi with this allegation, he did not deny it but instead withdrew the second exonerating polygraph report of Dr. Gordon Barland, failed to post the video of my polygraph as he and promised they would do, and even removed posts from their web site altogether, claiming that they had "had enough of the attacks by Sinclair's supporters and Sinclair himself."

The polygraph results - as misrepresented - were immediately seized upon by the blogger community and I became the subject of vicious lies about me. I was forced to file a lawsuit in an attempt to stop those lies about me that have been circulating. That lawsuit sought to obtain the proof of what I was saying about my contact with Senator Obama through subpoenas for the identities of the anonymous bloggers so they could be linked to the Obama campaign and relevant records of the cellphone companies to prove the truth of my allegations. To date, though the lawsuit is now over ninety days old, Judge Kennedy has refused to permit the suit to move forward so this evidence may be obtained. Conclusion

In sum, you can discredit my story and then make your decision on who should be the next President of the United States. The burden is now off me as I have told my story without the distortions that have been intentionally heaped on me in what my lawyer tells me is an ad hominem attack - shoot the messenger so you don't have to hear the message he is bringing. I am now done. It is for others to find the corroborating evidence of my story by locating the limousine driver - Paramjit Multani - and the telephone numbers related to Donald Young and/or Senator Obama. I leave you with these questions that I have asked of Senator Obama but which he - who wants to be the next President of the United States - has refused to answer:

1. Why won't Senator Obama provide his cellphone numbers and telephone records for all his personal and official cell phones held by him for the time period of November 3, 1999 thru November 8, 1999, when we met?

2. Why won't Senator Obama provide his cellphone numbers and telephone records for all his personal and official cell phones held by Senator Obama or September 2007 - December 23, 2008, the murder of Donald Young?

3. Why won't Senator Obama provide all email communication both personal and campaign related to and/or from AKP Message & Media from January 18, 2008 through February 29, 2008 for Senator Obama, David Axelrod and David Plouffe?

4. Why won't Senator Obama provide proof of all payments made from AKP Message & Media, Obama for America, David Axelrod, David Plouffe, and Senator Obama's accounts for the period of January 18, 2008 through February 29, 2008?

On my website - - you will find the documents that I have referred to in this statement. A copy of the home page for that website is attached. Thank you for your time and attention this afternoon and I will now take any questions.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 19, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Howard Dean Schemes To Shut Down Democratic Convention--June 12, 2008 (LPAC)--Billionaire George Soros's lap dog DNC Howard Dean is trying to shut the 18 million loyal Democratic and independent voters who supported Hillary Clinton out of the Denver convention altogether. In addition to reports that the Obama campaign is pushing to actually unseat all the Clinton delegates and replace them with Obama loyalists, there are more recent reports that Howard Dean is trying to prevent any balloting for the Democratic nominee, and instead is trying to just ram through a voice vote for Obama, without a state-by-state roll call. Even after the two parties turned their nominating conventions into ersatz rock concerts, it was always the case that the losing candidates were all given the opportunity to speak from the podium, and a full vote taken, before the anointed candidate was confirmed. Usually, in a gesture of party unity, after the first ballot vote was taken, a motion would be presented to endorse the candidate by unanimous consent. These traditions actually did have the effect of unifying the party, often after a tight and hotly contested primary season, and at least conveyed the idea that the party came out of the convention unified behind the Presidential and VP nominees, going into the November general elections. Clearly, between the Obama campaign and Howard Dean, there is a great deal of worry that the vicious campaign that was run against Hillary Clinton has created a level of fury, which could explode at the convention. Soros, Dean, Pelosi, Reid, and the Obama, have generated much bad blood that Hillary Clinton supporters are turned into Hillary Clinton fanatics. According to one well-placed Washington source, if 20% of the Hillary Clinton voters sit out the November elections, a loss of 4 million potential Obama voters--IF, Obama wound up with the nomination in the first place. That could spell certain doom for Obama's already-doomed candidacy.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 19, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps Obama would consider Hinduism instead?

Posted by: JakeD | June 19, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

It's an old trick.
Raise enough apurious questions.
Then the news is that people have questions about your victim.

Posted by: Frank Palmer | June 19, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Next Page | View: First to Last
Wonder what is behind Guiliani fundraising for McCain now, hm.... Hey does anyone know that without pledged delegates, can Guiliani still vie for the GOP nominee slot? Or VP slot? Especially in anticipation of McCain's health falling apart before or soon after the convention? Wonder if the reason Guiliani dropped out of the race in March is because of the media's glare into his pal Bernie Kerik's criminal trial that has a penalty of 140 years in prison if convicted? He might have committed a series of real Moo-Moos!! Interestingly, there has been no coverage since then... People say if you put a little moustache under Guiliani's nose, given his receding hairline and large forehead, he closely resembles Adolph Hitler. They've even referred to him as "Hitler Guiliani" especially when he was NYC Mayor. Perhaps the biggest fraud pertuated with Guiliani is his 'tough cop' reputation given his 24/7 micromanaging every square inch of the city because then the question remains, why did 9/11 occurred on his watch? There are a couple of speculations that he might have known about 9/11 and looked the other way or was part of the orchestration of it behind the scenes, hm.... Dunno what to think, do you?

Posted by: Anonymous | June 19, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Ah Hah! So Obama is a closet muslim who was brainwashed at age 6 to overtake the United States! It all somehow makes sense!

Wow. What a tangled web the GOP will weave. Sadly this stuff worked in 2000 and 2004...; but now, to qoute GW himself..."fool me once...shame on you...fool me twice...well...WE WONT BE FOOLED AGAIN!

Posted by: JimBo | June 20, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

As I estimated, above, there's less than a 2% chance that Barack Hussein Obama is a secret Muslim agent.

Posted by: JakeD | June 21, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Why did Barry change his name to B. H. Obama, a muslin name??????????????

Posted by: what ever | June 21, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse



JACKSONVILLE, Florida (CNN) - Barack Obama told supporters that Republicans will "try to make you afraid of me" in remarks he made Friday at a Florida fundraiser.

"The choice is clear. Most of all we can choose between hope and fear. It is going to be very difficult for Republicans to run on their stewardship of the economy or their outstanding foreign policy.

"We know what kind of campaign they're going to run," said the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. "They're going to try to make you afraid. They're going to try to make you afraid of me. 'He's young and inexperienced and he's got a funny name. And did I mention he's black?'"

In similar comments at a Chicago fundraiser last Thursday, Obama told supporters that Republicans would try to portray both him and his wife Michelle as "scary."

"They're going to try to make me into a scary guy," he said last week. "They're even trying to make Michelle into a scary person. Right?" And so that drumbeat - 'we're not sure if he's patriotic or not; we're not sure if he is too black.'

"I don't know, before I wasn't black enough," said Obama. "'Now he might be too black. We don't know whether he's going to socialize - well, who knows what.'"


Posted by: 37th&OStreet | June 22, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I'm giving Michael Dobbs 3 Pinnocchios for this article - there is more written evidence to support that Obama was a Muslim - there is a complete LACK of evidence to anything to contrary.

Michael Dobbs cites some spin person who can not be trusted - wrong to base anything on a spin person.

Michael Dobbs also fails to mention or evaluate statements by Obama's half-brother that Obama used to be a Muslim - very significant fact I might say. Sounds like Obama WAS A MUSLIM. A Catholic School lists Obama as a Muslim - and THERE IS NOTHING TO CONTRADICT THAT FACT.

So Michael Dobbs I really do not understand your take.

Combined with the statements of Obama's half brother - the truth should be clear: Obama WAS A MUSLIM. The truth should be told to the American people so they can evaluate whether Obama is a LIAR OR NOT. This issue goes to Obama's history yes, but now it is an issue of Obama's honesty and trustworthiness. Combined with Obama's recent slimy flip-flopping, one has to wonder if one can trust the guy.


Posted by: Anonymous | June 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Just some "food for thought". It is unfortunate that the climate of society has caused us to look at people so much differently now days. If religion hasn't been/isn't a factor then why has there only been one Catholic President? Not one Mormon, not one Muslim, not one Jew, not one Ba'hai? A person's religion doesn't qualify or disqualify them to be President no more than being in the military does. No one ever said that Hillary Clinton wasn't qualified because she wasn't in the military. There have been quiet a few Presidents who weren't active duty military war veterans, i.e. FDR, RWR (Reagan never served in combat because of near-sightedness, he was assigned to the motion picture unit and spent most of his time in California making training films until his discharge in December 1945), WJC and GWB. So that argument doesn't wash.

Religion should be kept out of politics. It's the quality of the person and how they will address the issues that should matter. Remember, there are many Muslims/Moslims who have been and are being killed by terrorists! My point is what does a person's religion have to do with how they will run the country? That should be transparent! The system despite what the Constitution says has allowed religion to be a sticking point in elections.

Something else, why are folks ignoring the fact that he was raised in his most formulative years from the time he return to Hawaii until he graduated from high school by his Christian Maternal Grandparents?

People, if you don't want to vote for one candidate or the other, don't vote for them because of the issues and not because of lies or hearsay. We just show how gullible we are. God gives us the power of reason and logic. Let's use it.

Posted by: Food 4 Thought | June 22, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

One more tidbit, none of these folks have experience as President! Again, another argument that has no bearing! Since when does being a hilltopper qualify one to be President? Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and GWB were all Governors. FDR was Assistant Sectary of the Navy and 'Ike' was the Supreme Allied Commander in WWII. It seems many of our hilltoppers haven't made many great decisions in recent years past. So how does this experience argument carry water? The key to a successful Presidency is the right people chosen who work with the President to make the hard decisions! The ones who know how to 'work the halls' to get support for the passing of legislation. We shall see what happens....

Posted by: Food 4 Thought | June 22, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Not this time you wacko right wingers! You will not smear another Democratic candidate! We won't let you! We will fight fire with fire. We'll give and give and give to Obama so he gets his message out there and debunk all your filthy smear. Will not scare voters this time.

Posted by: Veronique | June 22, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

As Long As We're Talking About Michelle Obama, Did You Know Cindy McCain Was A Drug Addict?

It's a psychedelic experience this week, watching Cindy McCain out on the campaign trail, attacking the opponent's wife. In rally after rally she says, "I've always been proud of my country," a not so subtle jab at Michelle Obama's gaffe earlier about really being proud of America for the first time.

But Cindy McCain has one hell of a scandal in her past. In the mid-nineties she was addicted to prescription pain killers. Worse, she was stealing the drugs from the American Voluntary Medical Team, a third world relief organization she founded. Like most ridiculously rich people, she didn't have to go to jail for her crimes and was allowed to enter a rehab program rather than face criminal charges. The charity was shut down.

So when Cindy McCain says, "All I know is that I've always been proud of my country," take it with a grain of salt. She spent at least three years stoned out of her mind. It's impossible to know what she thought during that time. Was she really proud, or was she just hallucinating?

Cindy's addiction has been virtually ignored this election season. As a thought experiment, try to imagine what the reaction would be if Michelle Obama had a history with drug addiction? If Michelle Obama had stolen drugs meant for third world countries to support her own addiction?

Of course, we want to leave spouses out of politics. But if Cindy is out attacking Michelle people are going to start throwing rocks back at her glass house. She'd have to be high to think otherwise.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 23, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

This is and always has been a Christian nation. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

Its enshrined in our declaration of Independence. Our Lord is directly mentioned in the Constitution. In God we trust is on our currency.

We all know the founding fathers were not speaking to Ganesh, or Muhammad, or whatever. It was Jesus Christ. He is the man here in the ol U.S of A. Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, all are welcolme. But this meting pot expects the moral compass to be in Christ. Not Shiva, or what not.

So naturally its disturbing for some to have a candidate that has a Muslim name, and some questions of his faith running for office. Does he, or does he not share the same value system that the majority of Americans can identify with?

I dont know, probly not from my perspective. But I believe he is a Christian and we can take him @ his word. He states he is a Christian, and that is not a thing one lies about. In my experience proclamations of faith are universally sacred, whatever your flavor.

You gain no points with the big guy (what ever one) by not claiming him as yours.

So Barack Hussein Obama is a Christian. But that still does not mean I can identify with him, or accept him as my candidate.

Posted by: Homunculus | June 23, 2008 3:11 AM | Report abuse

Adolf Hitler "stated" he was a Christian too. Jesus Himself said people will lie about that. Bottom line, if Obama were a secret Muslim agent, wouldn't you expect him to lie about it?

Posted by: JakeD | June 23, 2008 5:57 AM | Report abuse


Too funny. You are truly a disciple of Steven Colbert. This thread made my Monday far less tedious than usual.

Too bad on a comment form no one can see you smirk.



(I'm assuming satire, but on the very unlikely off-chance that you're serious about the 'secret muslim' thing.. get help now)

Posted by: JRP | June 23, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad I could help your Monday. Did you see Colbert put Obama in Hindu garb? Seriously, though, I've noted above that the chances Barack Hussein Obama is a secret Muslim agent remains very, very low.

Posted by: JakeD | June 23, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Baeh2r Blogs rating, add your blog to be rated for free:

Posted by: Nancy Barness | June 24, 2008 4:33 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: Nancy Barness | June 24, 2008 4:33 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: Nancy Barness | June 24, 2008 4:33 AM | Report abuse

Was Obama's "then-Indonesian step-father, Lolo Soetero" later something other than Indonesian? Did he become another nationality?

Posted by: John | June 24, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse


The best I can figure out these Obama family weeds is that Lolo Soetoro eventually became a U.S. citizen working for an American oil company.

Posted by: JakeD | June 25, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

If Obama is not a musilum,How come his father was? Has'nt Obama the same type of blood as his father? If
You have Obama for Pres. he will turn this nation into a Blood BATH!!
Don't say I never warned you.
He is a "Lier" with a capital "L" !!!

Posted by: Moonbug | June 25, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Gosh, that last statement was scary. Christians are people with Christian blood? What a bizarre notion.

Apparently now Hindus are also claiming Obama as one of their own...

Posted by: James | June 25, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse


Have you never heard of baptism / dedication for "Christian" babies?

Posted by: JakeD | June 26, 2008 4:12 AM | Report abuse

Hey Homunculus - What planet are you from? I personally would find it refreshing to have a president who doesn't pretend to believe in a 3000 year old fairy tale about a mystical supreme being who knows our every thoughts and sees every detail of billions of peoples lives. All this with not one bit of evidence. Because there are things people can't explain, doesn't mean that a supreme being made it. Just because you are feeble-minded and can't accept the finiteness of life doesn't mean we all need a mental crutch to get through life. Also, if you believe in the bible, how do you explain all the contradictions and violence in the bible. The bible calls for putting to death your children if they swear at you (Leviticus) plus more moronic crap. For example, two angels came to Lot's house to warn him about the impending destruction of Sodom. Supposedly Sodomites came to Lot's house wanting to "know" the angels, alluding to sodomy. So what did Lot do? He offered the Sodomite his two virgin daughters to ravage if the Sodomites would not hurt the angels. Is this the kind of crap that you believe in? More people have been killed over God and Country than everything else combined in history. Wake up, this isn't 1776 when science was still relatively new. Even then most founding fathers questioned the existence let alone relevance of God to government. There are some who still think the sun revolves around the earth. At one time, people were killed for heresy for that very thing. It's more likely there is an Easter Bunny than God. The only reason you are not a muslin is because you were born in a Christian nation and you parents brainwashed you. Religion is determined for the majority by their place of birth, not their independent beliefs. Grow up!

Posted by: Terry B. | June 28, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Terry B:

At least we can agree this is a Christian nation ; )

Posted by: JakeD | June 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Yes, but that is nothing to brag about. There is a direct correlation between education and belief in God. The lower the educational level, the higher propensity one has to believe in a supernatural being. The intellectually challenged tend to look for the "easy way" to explain things. Random acts of violence and catastrophes are explained away by Christians as "God's will", not wanting to take the time and intellectual investment to look for true causes or understand that nature is random in it's acts. Right now, the U.S. ranks towards the bottom of developed nations in investment for research and education as well as educational aptitude tests while at the same time, it's the most spiritual of developed nations. Christians rely more on superstitious beliefs handed down for thousands of years without proof while discounting science and often calling it blasphemy. Thousands, from Kepler, Copernicus and Newton, to tyhe scientists of today, are persecuted or ridiculed for standing up to religious zealots who fear science's steady badvancement. AS science continues to move forward, those who believe in superstitions such as religion are increasingly threatened when confronted with the silliness of their beliefs. Again it's simply "Hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil".

I love this country and it sickens me to see it's greatness harnessed and held back by the Dobsons, Hagees and Parsleys of this country and their intolerant, ignorant followers. Christianity is just another goofy cult used as a crutch for those who can not accept their mortality and want to believe that one day they will fly up to the clouds and live with their supernatural hero for infinity. Whose the crazies here?

Posted by: Terry B. | June 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Each American, at watershed moments in his or her life -- to get a driver's license, a marriage certificate, a passport -- must produce a paper birth certificate for official inspection and analysis. Now it's Obama's turn.

Posted by: maggieb | June 29, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Maggieb: Ok, let me understand this. When liberals asked for President Bush's National Guard discharge papers and his criminal records from his coke days as well as his health examination while in the Air Guard which would have proved him a coke addict, that was off bounds but a birth certificate of a baby is relevant? Only a Republican could come up with that rationale. God you people are such hypocrites.

Posted by: Terry B. | June 29, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Well, Thomas Friedman at NYT wrote a piece in that he interviewed people in Kenya and his famiily members who have Muslim heritage. It is a fact, so why is this an issue?

Posted by: peace4world | June 30, 2008 6:45 AM | Report abuse

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