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Posted at 6:00 AM ET, 09/19/2008

McCain, Obama Mislead on Immigration

By Michael Dobbs


Border fence at Tijuana, Mexico.

INTERVIEWER: "You voted for the construction of the wall between Mexico and the United States..."
JOHN MCCAIN: "I didn't vote for an...I am not sure what you are talking about, but we can secure...our borders with walls and/or fences in urban areas, and then virtual fences, vehicle barriers.
INTERVIEWER: "But, you did vote for the wall."
MCCAIN: "I didn't vote for an...I don't know what you are exactly what you are referring to."

--Interview with Univision, Sept. 15, 2008.

Trolling for the votes of Hispanic Americans, John McCain distanced himself this week from plans to build a 700-mile wall along sections of the 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexico border. He suggested that he preferred a "virtual" electronic wall, with actual physical fences only in urban areas. But that claim misrepresents his vote back in September 2006, when he helped pass the "Secure Fence Act."

The Facts

As a leading proponent of immigration reform, the Arizona senator long took the view that action designed to stop the flow of illegal aliens into the country should be combined with offering a path to legal citizenship to those that were already here. But he changed his position in 2006 as he prepared for his presidential bid, and voted for a law that was focused almost exclusively on keeping illegal aliens out. The law stipulates that a large stretch of the new wall would be built in McCain's home state of Arizona.

Most of the top presidential candidates, including Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, joined McCain in voting for the "Secure Fence Act," which passed the Senate by 80-19.

Questioned by the Spanish language television station Univision about his support for the fence, McCain claimed that he did not know what the interviewer was talking about. But the language of the legislation is very clear. Section 3 of the Act orders the Department of Homeland Security to oversee the construction of "at least 2 layers of reinforced fencing, the installation of additional physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors" along five sections of the border, totaling 700 miles.

In the meantime, the Obama campaign has also put out a television ad
accusing McCain of "lying" to win Latino votes while supporting hardline Republican policies on immigration and other matters. The advertisement attempts to link McCain to the conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh, who appears on screen along with quotes like "Shut your mouth or get out."

As several bloggers have pointed out, here and here, the Limbaugh quotes have been taken out of context. The attempt to link McCain to Limbaugh is also unfair, given the fact that the radio host has frequently criticized McCain, particularly on the issue of immigration reform.

The Pinocchio Test

Both McCain and Obama have taken liberties with the truth in seeking the support of Hispanic-Americans, who are emerging as a crucial voting bloc in the presidential election. McCain had a politically convenient memory lapse in forgetting his vote for a physical wall along long sections of the Mexican border, while Obama incorrectly suggested that his rival shares Limbaugh's ideas on immigration.

(About our rating scale.

By Michael Dobbs  | September 19, 2008; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  2 Pinocchios, Barack Obama, Candidate Watch, Immigration  
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Comments

McCain is playing the Republicans who don't want to see immigration reform to allow health care, better pay, and security for Hispanic workers. That is why he said to Univision he did not know what they were talking about.
With so much at stake on our economy, how long can we allow Rich people (don't know how many houses he has) like McCain to use hispanics as cheap slave labor.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 7:19 AM | Report abuse

I truly believe Senator McCain did not know what the interviewer was talking about, even though to anyone who had voted for that Bill it should have been. He has proven time and again that his mind is just not as sharp as it should be to be in the Senate, much less to be president. In short, he is senile and out of touch. Both he and Obama were wrong to vote for this fence.

Posted by: JakeD | September 19, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

While it is unreasonable to expect a 72 year old man to remember breakfast, much less one paragraph out of the thousands he voted on last year, as long as Sen McCain remains committed to fencing off those fetuses from their murderous mothers, he's got my vote.

Posted by: JakeD | September 19, 2008 8:43 AM | Report abuse

This is the "lie" Michael Dobbs chooses to Fact-Check today? Hair-splitting on a complex immigration issue?

C'mon Dobbs, it's staring you right in the face, but will you have the nerve to do a 'Fact Check' on it:
"McCain accuses Obama of using Franklin Raines as an 'economic advisor'."

Raines of course is the disgraced former exec of Fannie Mae who raped taxpayers for a large personal windfall on his way out the door of the ship he helped to sink and cause much of the financial turmoil we are in.

McCain largely relies on the WASHINGTON POST as the source that Raines is tied to Obama. Obama's camp says Raines is not part of Obama's team.

So c'mon Dobbs, who's lying? Your employer, the Washington Post? Or Barack Obama?

Posted by: dbw | September 19, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Two Pinocchios for Obama's racist attack ad that other major news outlets have made a feature story over? Then couching your covering that as a "McCain" misleads, too?

What a travesty. Your bias is showing.

When Rush Limbaugh takes racist ads to task, and is RIGHT and is quoted in major news outlets as such, you're on the wrong side.

The Washington Post is pushing and spinning Obama's false racist attack ad.

WASHINGTON POST PROMOTES OBAMA "RACIST" ATTACK AD
WITHOUT ANY INFORMATION ABOUT HOW FALSE IT IS

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/obama_invokes_rush_limbaugh_in.html

THE POST PUSHES OBAMA'S RACIST ATTACK AD AS IF TRUE

The Washington Post has put up and described Barack Obama's racist ad making blatant lies and false accusations about John McCain and immigration policies. The ad takes soundbites out of context from the Rush Limbaugh radio show, then puts them out there as if they were John McCain's words and as if John McCain supported Rush Limbaugh's anti-immigrant views.

OBAMA'S LIMBAUGH AD CAUSES STIR
From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney

"It is offensive and dishonest for Barack Obama to lie about John McCain's record on immigration and years of support for the Hispanic community, when it was Barack Obama himself who voted for 'poison pill' amendments that killed the effort at immigration reform. Instead of making false ads with baseless attacks, Barack Obama should be apologizing to the Latino community," Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart said in statement released by the McCain campaign.

The Spanish-language ad, launched earlier this week, aims to connect McCain to Republicans who have staked out staunch anti-illegal immigration stances — including talk radio host Rush Limbaugh.

"They want us to forget the insults we've put up with, the intolerance," the television ad's narrator says in Spanish as an image of Limbaugh is quoted saying, "Mexicans are stupid and unqualified" and "Shut your mouth or get out."

"They made us feel marginalized in a country we love so much," the narrator continues. "John McCain and his Republican friends have two faces. One that says lies just to get our vote and another, even worse, that continues the failed policies of George Bush that put special interests ahead of working families."

But McCain has repeatedly disagreed with his party's base on the issue of immigration and was a chief sponsor of an immigration reform bill last year that deeply angered conservatives and nearly sunk his campaign for the presidency.

The Arizona senator is also no favorite of Limbaugh, particularly for seeming to take a moderate stance on illegal immigration. But critics note McCain shifted his own policy on immigration as the Republican presidential primary race heated up, advocating a "security first" approach.

Limbaugh also took issue with the ad, telling the Politico it had taken his past statements — one of which is 15 years old — out of context and was an attempt at "race baiting."

"Obama is now stoking racism in the country," Limbaugh said. "Obama is a disgrace — he wants the public to think he is Mr. Nice Guy while his thugs are in Alaska looking for dirt on Palin and he runs race-baiting ads and lies about what he has done and what McCain has done."

more at: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/18/obamas-limbaugh-ad-causes-stir/

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 19, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

I think its wrong to give 2 pinocchios to McCain. His statement is fine with the question that was asked (you have to read the actual interview in the link Dobbs provided).

Posted by: jfg | September 19, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I'm also suprised Dobbs is treating both McCains and Obama's statements in the same article. They're totally different and should be handled separately.

Obama's statement can only get 2 pinicchios because of the rating system Dobbs is using, but its a bad ad. When people can actually argue about taking Rushs statements out of context, you know you're in trouble. And to connect McCain to Rush like that is laughable.

Posted by: jfg | September 19, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Sorry to be blunt, but to argue Rush Limbaugh does not support Sen McCain in this election is asinine.

Posted by: zukermand | September 19, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I laughed out loud when I saw Rush Limbaugh complaining that his comments were taken out of context. In what context is it OK to say that "Mexicans are ignorant and stupid"? And for McCain to complain that this ad misrepresents his position when he previously abandoned his work on a reasonable immigration solution and has been pandering to the Limbaugh fringe of his party throughout his campaign....that's just tough. You reap what you sow.

Posted by: djo | September 19, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

The fact is that Hispanics do not vote for blacks! Why?...

For the simple reason that blacks hate Hispanics and this hate is felt in every community where both races live in proximity. Blacks hate Hispanics because Hispanics work hard and they take away jobs from blacks. This is common sense if you are a homeowner and needs a gardener of a house cleaning lady, who would you hire??? a black or a Hispanic?

El Pais es Primero!
Latinos para Juan McCain y Sara Palin

Posted by: Manolete | September 19, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Hey republicans:

Why don't you ask your politican to stand for something. One thing right or wrong and not pretend they don't stand for it when the opposition asks the questions. I mean seriously. He's for the fence, oh wait no he's not. He's against regulations oh wait there ought to be more regulation. He's against earmarks but the best looking female politician he can find demands earmarks. It this guy for you or does he just say whatever you want to hear until he gets your vote. I guess that's why they are claiming to be the party of change. Because they can change their mind on any issue when needed.

Posted by: Sean | September 19, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

You cut the interview snippet too short in your header - the next statement out of McCain's mouth was the following:

"What my plan was, and what our proposal was, that we secure our borders, and we can secure it, not necessarilly with walls and fences. Although that is important in populated areas, in the deserts of Arizona vehicle barriers, cameras, and sensors, all of those things, can be used."

His statement was clear, consistent with his previous statements (and voting record), and isn't a change at all - who decided to truncate his answer to "prove" their point?

I don't see a "memory lapse" - I see a statement taken out of context.

Posted by: Ken in NJ | September 19, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Jake, Voting for a presidential candidate based on an issue that has nothing to do with a president's power in government is just plain pointless. Abortion is a state issue, not a federal issue. So to decide who the best person is to move our armies, fix our economy, fix health care and work to unite America again based on one irrelevant issue such as abortion must be the worst thing a person can do. Keep your beliefs at church, we have REAL problems that affect all Americans and other people worldwide to worry about first. After we ensure that people that do have children will be able to feed those kids and give them health care so they don't die of natural causes then we can worry about abortion.

Posted by: Nick | September 19, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF PLUS 12,000,000 ILLEGALS IN THE USA ARE THE EMPLOYERS OF THE ILLEGALS WHO ARE SHORT SIGHTED ON THEIR LOW COST ILLEGAL SCAB LABOR. THE LAWS ARE ON THE BOOK AND IF GOVERMENT WENT AFTER THE ILLEGAL'S EMPLOYEERS, THE ILLEGALS WHOULD LEAVE ON THERE OWN WITHOUT EMPLOYMENT. PLEASE NOTE THAT THE USA HAS ABOUT TEN GUEST WORK PROGRAMS WHICH SHOWS THAT WE ARE A GOOD SOCITY. HOW MANY GUEST WORK PROGRAMS DO OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE? THE 14th AMMENMENT WAS NOT MADE FOR ILLEGALS TO SNEAK INTO THE USA AND PRODUCE A CHILD. THEIR OFFSPRING ARE ILLEGAL ALSO. FOR THE CHURCH THAT SPEAKS OUT ON THIS POLITIAL ISSUE BETTER PAY THEIR TAX ACCOUNT THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF I.R.S. RULES IF THEY DO NOT HAVE THE OPPOSITED VIEW SPOKE DRICTLY AFTER THE TIME & PLACE THEY SPEAK ON THIS POLITICAL ISSUE. CALL THE I.R.S. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE RULE ON WHEN A CHURCH MUST PAY TAX. THE USA CANNOT AFFOR THE PLUS 12,000,000 ILLEGALS INTO OUR SYSTEM. DO THE ECONMIC MATH.AND TO YOU DOGOODERS OUT THERE, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR DOING TO OUR COUNTRY?

Posted by: PATRICK HENRY | September 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

The one and the biggest thing - Sarah Palin believes in creationism! that shows her IQ levels. period. i cannot vote for a moronic lier.

Posted by: AM Baltimore | September 19, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

PALIN BACKED RON PAUL DURING PRIMARY? http://www.veeppeek.com

MORE AND MORE KEEP COMING OUT ABOUT PALINS ALLEDGED AFFAIR. http://www.hotpres.com

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Slightly O/T, it's hard to imagine a richer irony than Rush Limbaugh accusing others of race-baiting. That's not to say he doesn't throw out the accusation daily, but the absurdity is unparalleled. One thing is for certain, Rush Limbaugh has no public shame.

Posted by: zukermand | September 19, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Facts speak louder than EMPTY WORDS?

"This week started off with Black Monday, where the stock market dropped over 500 points and investors lost $500-billion in equity. And this just wasn't one isolated day here. The market's been tanking for a while now, and economist after economist says we're either in recession or about to enter one...and a major one at that. But that didn't stop McCain from repeating his duplicitous and/or delusional mantra that "The fundamentals of the economy are strong." It's a phrase Grandpa John apparently loves, as he's said it about 22 times this year including:

11/27/07: "I think the fundamentals are strong"

1/10: "I think the fundamentals of this economy are strong"

1/17: "Our economic fundamentals are strong"

3/11: "The fundamentals of our economy are strong"

5/5: "The fundamentals of our economy are strong"

6/5: "The fundamentals of our economy are very strong"

McCain's insistence that the economy is strong should be the nail in his political coffin for anyone still doubting just how out-of-touch he is with the financial anxieties of average Americans, let alone his grasp of the dire straits the nation is in.

Since George Bush took office in 2000, the "fundamentals of the economy" are horrendous:

-Unemployment 6.1% vs 4.2%

-Budget deficit of $357-billion vs $281-billion budget surplus

-National debt at $9.7-trillion vs $5.8-trillion

-Gas $4/gallon vs $1.27

-Inflation at 5.37% from 2.74%

-Real Wages down 2%

-Consumer Confidence Index .57 vs historical high of 145

Add to this grim picture the crisis over 400,000 U.S. home foreclosures, a mortgage meltdown, and multiple Wall Street bankruptcies. Seriously."

Posted by: Funny Truth :) | September 19, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

I welcome better pay and health benefits for Hispanic workers as long as they are LEGALITY in our country and has proper job permit. I love to see pay increase in any areas that right now employ illegal immigrants. It should go as high as it will be economical to employ legal residents and will also trigger innovation and progress in these areas.
NO TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION XXI SLAVERY.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

This is whats important , not SCREAMING that there are 12 or 15 million undocumented in our nation.

Daniel Griswold: Immigration law should reflect our dynamic labor market

Daniel Griswold is director of the Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute in Washington. His writings on immigration can be found at www.freetrade.org; e-mail him at dgriswold@cato.org.

Among its many virtues, America is a nation where laws are generally reasonable, respected and impartially enforced. A glaring exception is immigration.

Today an estimated 12 million people live in the U.S. without authorization, 1.6 million in Texas alone, and that number grows every year. Many Americans understandably want the rule of law restored to a system where law-breaking has become the norm.

The fundamental choice before us is whether we redouble our efforts to enforce existing immigration law, whatever the cost, or whether we change the law to match the reality of a dynamic society and labor market.

Low-skilled immigrants cross the Mexican border illegally or overstay their visas for a simple reason: There are jobs waiting here for them to fill, especially in Texas and other, faster growing states. Each year our economy creates hundreds of thousands of net new jobs – in such sectors as retail, cleaning, food preparation, construction and tourism – that require only short-term, on-the-job training.

At the same time, the supply of Americans who have traditionally filled many of those jobs – those without a high school diploma – continues to shrink. Their numbers have declined by 4.6 million in the past decade, as the typical American worker becomes older and better educated.

Yet our system offers no legal channel for anywhere near a sufficient number of peaceful, hardworking immigrants to legally enter the United States even temporarily to fill this growing gap. The predictable result is illegal immigration

In response, we can spend billions more to beef up border patrols. We can erect hundreds of miles of ugly fence slicing through private property along the Rio Grande. We can raid more discount stores and chicken-processing plants from coast to coast. We can require all Americans to carry a national ID card and seek approval from a government computer before starting a new job.

Or we can change our immigration law to more closely conform to how millions of normal people actually live.

Crossing an international border to support your family and pursue dreams of a better life is not an inherently criminal act like rape or robbery. If it were, then most of us descend from criminals. As the people of Texas know well, the large majority of illegal immigrants are not bad people. They are people who value family, faith and hard work trying to live within a bad system.

When large numbers of otherwise decent people routinely violate a law, the law itself is probably the problem. To argue that illegal immigration is bad merely because it is illegal avoids the threshold question of whether we should prohibit this kind of immigration in the first place.

We've faced this choice on immigration before. In the early 1950s, federal agents were making a million arrests a year along the Mexican border. In response, Congress ramped up enforcement, but it also dramatically increased the number of visas available through the Bracero guest worker program. As a result, apprehensions at the border dropped 95 percent. By changing the law, we transformed an illegal inflow of workers into a legal flow.

For those workers already in the United States illegally, we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.

The fatal flaw of the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act was not that it offered legal status to workers already here but that it made no provision for future workers to enter legally.

Immigration is not the only area of American life where a misguided law has collided with reality. In the 1920s and '30s, Prohibition turned millions of otherwise law-abiding Americans into lawbreakers and spawned an underworld of moon-shining, boot-legging and related criminal activity. (Sound familiar?) We eventually made the right choice to tax and regulate alcohol rather than prohibit it.

In the 19th century, America's frontier was settled largely by illegal squatters. In his influential book on property rights, The Mystery of Capital, economist Hernando de Soto describes how these so-called extralegals began to farm, mine and otherwise improve land to which they did not have strict legal title. After failed attempts by the authorities to destroy their cabins and evict them, federal and state officials finally recognized reality, changed the laws, declared amnesty and issued legal documents conferring title to the land the settlers had improved.

As Mr. de Soto wisely concluded: "The law must be compatible with how people actually arrange their lives." That must be a guiding principle when Congress returns to the important task of fixing our immigration laws.

Daniel Griswold is director of the Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute in Washington. His writings on immigration can be found at www.freetrade.org; e-mail him at dgriswold@cato.org.

Posted by: Funny Truth :) | September 19, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

A commentor writes: "...as long as Sen McCain remains committed to fencing off those fetuses from their murderous mothers, he's got my vote."

There you have the plan for all our futures: the madmen, the fundamentalist madmen and madwomen, in the worldwide fundamentalist patriarchal style ala bin laden, will not only overturn Roe v Wade, they will define abortion as homicide. They are no longer content to keep you "pregnant and in the kitchen" to subdue their their male insecurities through submission of women. No, now they need to also put you in jail for murder. It is akin to returning to Puritanical witch hunts with the "Palin/McCain ticket". Oh, except for that bulging Bristol Palin, of course. What a fine young lady she is. And her high school drop-out beau.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

republicans have failed to understand - the economic contributions - of immigration; specially JMCain who does not know anything about the economy as he himself stated; Palin needs to be tutored in - about important issues - by the time she is ready - there will be a reelection and she may look a bit smarter than Bush - with similar ratings;

Posted by: onImmigration | September 19, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Manolete, ¿no te da vergüenza? Los negros son una parte importante de esa nación, como lo son en México, en Guatemala, en Dominicana, y en muchos paises más. ¿Cómo puedes sembrar división entre latinos y negros, cuando muchas veces son la misma gente?

Sorry guys, I had to scold the racist.

Posted by: homunq | September 19, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I am for enforcing the rule of law until the law is changed. It needs sensible change. We have 12 million (estimated) people here breaking the law. They lied to break it and stay, whether or not they love this country. I am glad 'Funny Truth' brought up the comparison of criminal behavior such as rape and robbery. What I would like is to know who is coming into the country. If they are coming here for work... good. If they are running from the law in their own country because of rape or robbery... bad. The only way to have a reasonable handle on this is info from their home country. We cannot trust the honesty of someone who has already lied to stay here to suddenly fess up to more serious crimes. Amnesty would be a disaster.

Posted by: dave | September 19, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

THEY SHOULD BE MADE TO INTER INTO THIS COUNTRY LEGALLY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.THEY
GET ALL THE MEDICAL 'DENTAL'BENIFITS,
WELFARE, AND HAVEN'T WORKED A DAY.SURE
THEY WANT THEM HERE, SO THEY CAN GET THAT
SLAVE LABOR $4-$5 DOLLARS AN HOUR. SURE
I WOULD TOO.SHIP THEM ALL BACK AND LET THEM COME HERE LEGALLY. MAKE A STAND!
[CUT THE BULL]!!!!
LARRY WORTH

Posted by: LARRY WORTH | September 19, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

To all of those that continue to spew facts about the "horrible condition" of our economy, I would like to point out a few things. While it's great for you to be able to ramble off economic facts and attribute the diminishing of our economy to our President, the truth is that you are omitting important factors. For example, September 11th. Do you know or even understand how that day/event impacted our economy? Name another president who has had to deal with such an occurence. Oh wait! You can't, because it was the single most devastating attack on US soil in the history of our country. Hmm... I wonder if that had an impact on the economy. No, you're right it probably didn't. His effects on the economy have been manipulated by both parties and to date, his approval ratings with Republicans (on economic matters) are at 67%, while with Democrats it's only at 1%. What else has happened to our economy during his presidency?

Well, there was the housing market crisis, which both Bush AND McCain tried to reform. McCain has proposed several plans and supported legislation to regulate the housing market. This idea of reform and creating legislation that would have protected the American public before the crisis might have been succesful if we had a congress that was able to work together towards bettering our economic situation. Instead however, we have a Congress that is so partisan that nothing can get accomplished.

While the economy has certainly not thrived as the entire American Public had hoped, one cannot help but understand the social, foreign, and domestic events that took place during his presidency. While I appreciate everyone's attempts at providing factual information, I am shocked that as educated individuals you all cannot appreciate the effects of these events on the economy. All too often, we are quick to point at results and gripe without understanding the causes.

I would caution everyone to take a holistic look at our country. It will give you a better understanding and help you to make more educated decisions, which benefits all.

Posted by: Brennon | September 19, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Rush is crying foul about racism.

Even Donvan McNabb said C R A C K A Please.

Posted by: John Jameson | September 19, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Juan McAmnesty is for Amnesty for one reason only: the rich White men that back him financially rely on cheap, lower than market rate illegal labor from Mexico and Central America. They own McDonalds, Carls Jr and General Motors franchises and are fighting the Arizona laws that punish employers of illegal labor. They want McAmnesty to push their agenda and are willing to pay his campaign and the Republican National Committee huge amounts of funds to make it happen.

McAmnesty doesn't care about Hispanic people, just look at his record regarding Mexico and C.America as proof. The man is a slimy politician.

Obama on the other hand, is for Amnesty as a concept of humane treatment of Hispanics. I disagree with him on this; the right way to fix Latin America's culture is to address the root cause and not believe that the USA can absorb every downtrodden person in Latin America.

So I disagree with both (I'm a legal immigrant to the USA by the way) but at least Obama's perspective is coming from honesty, whereas John McCain's is pure evil political maneuvering. Want more proof? http://www.mccainslobbyists.com

Posted by: Joop in Arizona | September 19, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Mccain is an idiot

Posted by: John Smith | September 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

There are illegal immigrants who pay taxes under the false papers they are using. They cannot file a return to get a little bit back. They will never get there social security contribution. It will be interesting to know the value of that contribution to the treasury.

Posted by: not_me | September 19, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"Our goal is to shed as much light as possible on controversial claims and counter-claims involving important national issues and the records of the various presidential candidates."
--------------------

WRONGO, Pinocchio!

Your goal is to pimp for the pale black, empty suit.

Posted by: Bill Farrell | September 19, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

It's interesting to see how little people know about illegal immigrants. Although it's probably not their fault, there's just a lot of ignorance of the subject, mostly because of the way "illegals" are portrayed by the media.

Most Americans are under the impression that everyone WANTS to be illegal. That they snuck in so they could "reap the benefits". Little do they know that most don't actually have a path to legalization, that they have NO way of becoming a legal resident, no matter how badly they want it. Even if they have been paying taxes (what? yes! a lot of illegal immigrants actually do pay taxes... a lot of taxes).
I'm not really sure how Americans picture legalization - is it filling out some papers and all of a sudden being legal?

I'm getting tired of all the ignorance. Please, please, educate yourselves, really find out why people are here, why they're illegal, what they're doing etc. Then we can all talk.

By the way, I was an illegal immigrant for quite a while. It wasn't by choice - I came in legally but my papers expired (again, not by choice). Went through high school and college - with no papers, and NO help from the government, contrary to what most might think. I am now married, to an American citizen, this is why I am now legal - and I'm a professional scientist. It's sad that I had to suffer through all those years being illegal because there was NOTHING that allowed me to become legal. So trust me, it's not as easy as you think. And all I've done all these years is go to school, work and pay taxes to the Unites States government.

Posted by: vear | September 19, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

All you stars from Cal. and mtv . do not try telling how to vote. You must think we are all dum dums.Any person that can read can make up their own mine. Why must you stick your noise in my life.

Posted by: ben | September 19, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

The answer is simple: We need to enforce the minimum wage laws and tax everyone the same. Employers also should also have to pay for medical and education for those who enter illegally. That would pretty much stop the problem wouldn't it?
We hear a lot of negatively about a group of people who largely just want a better life. You hear very little about going after employers. Why??

Posted by: Lee Parker | September 19, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

The federal government has breeched its Constitutionally required duty under Article IV, Section IV to protect citizens and states from foreign invasion, instead choosing to play politics with the law and mislabeling the invasion (of an estimated 12-20 million armed and unarmed Mexican citizens and another 4-8 million nonMexicans) as merely unfortunate--ignoring the $300+ billion yearly impact on local and state governments and landslide of negative impacts on U.S. citizens.

Each year, foreign invaders murder an estimated 4,380 Americans in their undeclared war on U.S. citizens, a death toll totaling more than the 5 years of war in Iraq combined. Compounding the impacts, another 4,735 innocent U.S. citizens are slaughtered by illegal alien drunk drivers who should not be in the country at all but are allowed to remain by local, state, and federal law enforcement. Equally sickening is the fact that over 243 innocent children are brutally molested or raped each month by foreign intruders--tragic crimes that could have been avoided by simply enforcing our immigration laws--clearly Pelosi and Gutierrez and any elected official that votes against enforcing our laws in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, stand against American children!

Many journalist and researchers now conclude that President Bush and Congress have raised their collective incompetency to the level of criminal negligence, and even treason, for failing to deal with these issues as required by law and Constitution. Criticism, legal, and political issues aside in the US, the war South of the border continues to escalate and threaten the US.

President Bush, Mexican President Calderon, and Canadian Prime Minister Harper are pressing forward aggressive plans to permanently open the border with Mexico to the U.S. in advancement of their free trade agenda under the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP). The SPP, according to many research analyst, journalist, state legislators and other officials, has been deemed the precursor to the North American Union (NAU). The goal, they claim, is to eventually combine the US, Canada, and Mexico into one country under one currency--the "Amero"-- much like the European Union. It is a claim the three leaders flatly deny, but their actions, and those of all three governments, dictate the plan is well underway.

The result has been that state legislators, like Arizona's State Senator Karen Johnson, have taken bold steps to stop the NAU and have threatened to secede their states from the union in the event unconstitutional mandates such as the SPP are attempted by the federal government. Twelve states have some form of anti-SPP/NAU laws either secured or in the works, does your state??

Citizens across the U.S. are awakening to the facts with much anger and bitterness, pointing hatful fingers at both federal leaders and millions of unwanted foreign invaders stealing their resources and opportunities.

This invasion had better be stopped by the people We elected to prevent such things, illegals deported, employers of illegals imprisoned, sanctuary cities not allowed to exist and border agents not thrown into prison for doing their job. Our elected officials had better start doing their jobs of upholding our Constitution, enforcing our immigration laws and protecting our nation and citizens from this invasion aided and abetted by our federal, state and local governments or it looks to me there's going to be a much bigger problem to deal with!

U.S. citizens are tired of and don't believe the lies anymore, We see action or non-action or sneaky attempts by our elected officials to hide amnesty and/or benefits for illegal aliens in some bill and it is coming to a boiling point because of our elected officials REFUSAL to enforce our laws and uphold our Constitution.

When the violence does break out, when American citizens have had enough of being ignored and betrayed, when it is time to push back before We lose all that is ours, the blame will be on all the elected officials who have refused to do their job.

Posted by: Patriot | September 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Nick:

Kinda off-topic, but that was the fake JakeD. Nonetheless, either McCain or Obama will nominate Supreme Court Justices which could decide the fate of Roe v. Wade once and for all. Then, we would have to see if abortion returns to being a State issue.

If you want to discuss the issue of abortion further -- although killing off generations of Americans who could be doing lower-class work is relevant to why we need so many illegal immigrants -- please see this thread:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/09/obama_confuses_his_verb_tenses.html#comments

I will not post on this immigration thread again.

Posted by: JakeD | September 19, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Any wall around its country ALSO is a wall around its own citizens. If someone puts himself in a can "to protect himself" he ends in fact imprisoned.
-One fact that IS IGNORED by most is that THERE ARE thousands of illegal US citizens in Mexico, and some are there for personal convenience, but many are there also with bad intentions. Some works or do business there, some are involve in crime.

Posted by: El Mugroso | September 19, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"They made us feel marginalized in a country we love so much," the narrator continues.

If they love it so damn much then why do they not learn the language?

If they love it so damn much then why do they not obey our immigration laws?

If they love it so damn much then why do they commit 83% of all violent crime here?

If they love it so damn much why do they make America into a Mexican suburb?

My God how it pains me to agree with that pompous ass (insert Limbaugh, Levin, Ingram, Hannity, or equivalent here) but when he's right you have no choice but to swallow your gigantic ego and admit you agree (I just can not bring myself to say he's right). You all will never know just how much that last sentence hurt to write. Even a bout with kidney stones was easier to endure! However, in the bigger picture it had to be said.

Posted by: anOPINIONATEDsob | September 19, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

McCain is playing the Republicans who don't want to see immigration reform to allow health care, better pay, and security for Hispanic workers. That is why he said to Univision he did not know what they were talking about.
With so much at stake on our economy, how long can we allow Rich people (don't know how many houses he has) like McCain to use hispanics as cheap slave labor.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 7:19 AM "

Illegal aliens get low wages not so much because they're ILLEGAL but because they're generally unskilled and uneducated. Also, large numbers of such workers (or any workers in an industry, even skilled ones) will drive or keep wages down. IF there were truly a shortage of unskilled labor, the market would require that employers pay higher wages even to ILLEGAL aliens. All legalization would do is make it easier for legalized illegals who would remain among the working poor to get welfare and social services they cannot now access (including the earned income tax credit). Without INTERIOR enforcement as well as better border enforcement, you can bet legalization would also result in a new crop of illegal aliens who would serve to continue the push to the bottom.

Posted by: Ali | September 19, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Most Americans are under the impression that everyone WANTS to be illegal. That they snuck in so they could "reap the benefits". Little do they know that most don't actually have a path to legalization, that they have NO way of becoming a legal resident, no matter how badly they want it. Even if they have been paying taxes (what? yes! a lot of illegal immigrants actually do pay taxes... a lot of taxes).
I'm not really sure how Americans picture legalization - is it filling out some papers and all of a sudden being legal?

I'm getting tired of all the ignorance. Please, please, educate yourselves, really find out why people are here, why they're illegal, what they're doing etc. Then we can all talk."

The simple answer: illegal aliens are illegal because they don't want to wait in line with legal immigrants and jump through the same hoops. Illegal aliens take a gamble that somehow, some way, it will all work out (another amnesty perhaps?) or that we'll continue to be suckers and provide mini-amnesties. As it is, illegal aliens can legalize by being sponsored by a close US citizen spouse or relative. Likewise, the 245i provisions which ended in April 2001 allowed employers to sponsor illegal aliens for legal status. While it's quite true that these don't apply to everyone, they cover plenty of the most "sympathetic" categories of illegals, those with US citizen children or parents or who are truly valuable to employers. These routes also require time, effort, and money to legalize, putting them back on somewhat of a par with legal immigrants who have to wait in their home countries without having the opportunity to work or go to school or build a life here. As for the other illegal aliens, the ones without routes, why should they get a break over LEGAL immigrants? Remembering always that US IMMIGRATION POLICY SHOULD PRIMARILY BE FOR THE WELFARE OF US CITIZENS AND NOT IMMIGRANTS.

Posted by: Ali | September 19, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

If we take this approach along with enabling investors to accelerate a write off on losses, while taxing them higher for un-invested funds, we can incentivize investment in small business.
The advantage of having lots of smaller entities is that a singular failure then gets absorbed into the competing companies. It is much more robust and would generate wealth creation by and for the middle class.
What I think voters have to ask themselves is who most embraces this philosophy, Obama or McCain?
While Obama says his tax cuts will help 90% of the middle class, I would argue that it does not if they do not have an income due to the penalty on small business with higher investment taxes, higher small business taxes, and greater regulation, which penalizes small business more than big business.
The republicans would do well to remember that we have a bill or rights. The Democrats would be wise to remember that eventually you have to pay for what you purchase, and that a move towards consolidation to larger business and more centralized government makes our nation weaker and more prone to disastrous consequences.

Posted by: Kimberly Peacock | September 19, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

A great many so called "Hispanic workers" are illegal aliens. Do you not understand what that means, in English?

Illegal aliens have no rights except to be DEPORTED. Period. They are illegal trespassers, who provide illegal, black market labor, often use fake or stolen ID's, social security numbers, evade income tax, drive without a real license/insurance, etc.

The main problem is the chronically corrupt country of Mexico, pushing their peasants to cross into our nation illegally and work illegally and send money back to Mexico.

Enforce the law - both at the border and in the interior of the USA. Deportation in large numbers needs to begin soon. Very soon.

Oh and also. Banish Spanish.

Posted by: JPPC | September 19, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how many of our sub-prime mortgages are held by Illegal Aliens? I suspect there are a lot of them, made to people with no real stake in the health of our democracy.

Posted by: AD DO | September 19, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The USA is not a "nation of immigrants" nor are Americans "all immigrants". Both of these statements show an ignorance of historical fact and a tendency to accept a tired, old cliche.

Many foreigners have come to feel that they have some God-given right to "migrate" to the USA and sponsor an unlimited number of their relatives to join them in their new land (merely a place to make money for many of them), the United States.

This must end or the USA will break apart due to "balkanization" - the combination of non-assimilating masses and the liberal, globalist, transnational world view of multiculturalism and so called "diversity".

Devout Muslims, devout Hindus and Buddhists are not well suited to become Americans, for the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian, British-based values, ethics, laws and traditions. If that sounds "mean" to some of you, get a grip and grow up. I am not suited to live in India, China or Egypt either.

All immigration (legal, illegal, "temporary", "guest", student") needs to be reduced for 10-20 years. I believe it will happen. Not just yet but we're getting close to the beginning of the end of mass, open immigration. Thank God.


Posted by: BETWyan | September 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The bill may have been wrong, but McCain lied about knowing about it - whether it be because he is getting used to lies, or he is getting senile, either one disqualifies him to be our president.

Posted by: Sandra S | September 19, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

A convenient memory lapse?? McCain is having trouble remembering what he said last week.

More distortion, deceit, and desperation from the collapsing McCain campaign. Fear and division is all they've got.

Posted by: thebob.bob | September 19, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I just love all the bleeding heart liberals comments... It`s always Americas or societies fault, for the problems of the poor illegal alien... If one is for illegal immigration, then you are profiting from it in some way, because I don`t know anyone who is for, more crime, stealing of jobs and identities, neighborhoods turning into garbage cans, etc... The majority of REAL Americans are for securing the border (the fence), and enforcing the CURRENT immigration laws... The laws aren`t broken, that`s just political propaganda, so pro-illegal alien politicians can push their own agenda, through the left wing mainstream media... Democrats see a potential future cheap voting block, and republicans want to keep on supplying cheap illegal alien labor, for their big business campaign contributions... Remember, politicians are masters at creating illusions. The illegal immigration outrage, is a bi-partisan outrage!

Posted by: Independent Voter | September 19, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Obama's ad slanders a private citizen with absurdly out of context quotes and that rates anything less than 5 Pinocchios?

Shame on you. Shame on your paper. My bird is insulted that your garbage is fouling the bottom of its cage.

Posted by: GEAH | September 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

McCain is playing the Republicans who don't want to see immigration reform to allow health care, better pay, and security for Hispanic workers. That is why he said to Univision he did not know what they were talking about.
With so much at stake on our economy, how long can we allow Rich people (don't know how many houses he has) like McCain to use hispanics as cheap slave labor.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 7:19 AM "

Note also: Illegal aliens in many instances represent themselves as US citizens or legal residents to employers. Unless the employer is complicit in the fraud, the employer IS paying market wages to illegal aliens just as if they were citizens. What keeps wages down is the AVAILABILITY of lots of labor, not its legal status.

Posted by: Ali | September 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"What keeps wages down is the AVAILABILITY of lots of labor, not its legal status."

This is correct. Quantity creates a quality all to itself. Having many people show up to interview for a job allows an employer to become choosy and bid down the salary for the position since he knows so many people desire the job.

That's a big reason why immigration levels into the USA need to be reduced. Remember, between 1925 and 1965, the US had low levels of immigration. Until Teddy "the swimmer" Kennedy got his mitts into the system and started the mass immigration period, which began in '65 but didn't really hit full stride until much later in the 1980's and 90's.

Lower the numbers.

Posted by: Nes | September 19, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

OK, it is time for to chime in on the thought that some of you have expressed that the republicans can legislate morality and make us a God fearing country once again.

First, of all morality is not legislated it is either embraced by an individual or it is not. The republicans have championed these same morality issues in the past and I bought their snow job. They promise morals and instead rape our country while they laugh at the stupid people who voted their fears instead of common sense. The so-called conservatives that have controlled the government for the last eight years have given us what? A war in the wrong place, lives lost, jobs lost, homes lost and a recession that threatens to become a depression. Thanks but no thanks to another 4 years of this insanity.

Posted by: Truth | September 19, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

So, how many readers actually buy the the immigration reform crap? How many readers actually believe that border jumping is the national approved method of labor import? While you are wallowing in your sobbing approval of border jumping consider this: Civil war is the historical solution to border jumping. Civil war is what the terror creeps are instigating all over the earth. Civil war is the classic solution to a Communist take over. Do you really understand that civil war is violent?

Posted by: John R. | September 19, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I am Spanish living in Lexington, KY
Some Latinos love to cry like martyrs...
"They (ICE) terrorize families,they are racist, they are evil!"
But when a Latino steals, kills or commits some type of criminal act..they all hush up!!

UNIVISION is the leader of these type of people...they are just looking for rating and Latinos are eating it up!
Look at the borders south of Mexico...does anybody do any news on how Guatemalans, Hondurans, Salvadoreans are treated ...I am not even American ..I am Canadian but People need to see that immigration reform also means paying taxes, child support, abiding the law....We all suffer because some people have agendas with their propaganda.

NO TO AMNESTY!!! YES TO Immigration reform (path to citizenship)!!!

Posted by: CRONICAS | September 19, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

What does your believing in right to life have to do with having the ability to make an informed decision on national policies,such as the economy,unemployment,military,etc.
Roe v Wade is settled law,and think I will never be overturned.
The majority of Americans believe in the old adage "Live and let live".

Posted by: j4 | September 19, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

CRONICAS -

Sorry - No to amnesty. Yes to enforcing the law. Pathway to the border, as you leave. Yes!

Illegal immigrants deserve nothing but deportation. They are 100% criminals that most other nations in the world do not accomodate at all. No special rules for Latinos. Deport Latino, Chinese, Russian, Arab/Muslim, Irish, whomever is illegal. Deport immediately and in large numbers. The gravy train is over.

Whether Osama/Obama, the Messiah with a thin resume or Juan McAmnesty becomes president, it doesn't matter because neither one will get what they want - a "pathway to citizenship", aka, amnesty.

Why? Because 75% of the American people are against it. Because the American people know that "pathway to citizenship" is code for amnesty. Jorge Bush tried for several years and got nothing. Barry Hussein and McAmnesty won't even get as far as Bush on the issue.

Posted by: Nes | September 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

We need a fence and guns facing the border, one step over the border and we blast them, everyone of them. It is equal to an invading force, an act of war. Neither Obama or McCain will take a hard-line stance on this issues because they are weak! Wake up America these people are stealing tax dollars, American will work those jobs, at least for a decent wage.

Posted by: steve | September 19, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

PALIN BACKED RON PAUL? http://www.veeppeek.com

YESTERDAY MORE CAME OUT ABOUT SARAH PALINS ALLEDGED AFFIAR. http://www.hotpres.com

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, what is the big argument here?? Both John,"Americans wouldn't pick lettuce for fifty dollars an hour", McCain, and Barack," I attended a hatefull preachers church for twenty years but didn't inhale, Obama, are both exhibiting criminal behavior by suggesting that the existing established immigration laws of this nation should be violated.

Posted by: Bobby | September 19, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

WOW! I can't believe some of the comments here! It is obvious that the topic of (Illegal) immigration strikes chords in many of us.

I only wish that both sides were less quick to strike at a candidate assuming malicious intent when none of you really knows either man's true heart or motivations. To accuse them of anything underhanded or crooked without absolute knowledge just makes the whole issue (and all other issues) become a shouting match in which neither side has a real voice.

Instead, focus on the actual issue and what each candidate vows to try to do about it. McCain said he's for enforcing laws against employers who hire illegals. He's for increasing the border patrols and the means for keeping the border secure.

When he stumbles at the mention of "THE WALL" in the question it is because NO ONE EVER CALLS IT "THE WALL" What "wall" is he referring to? McCain was wondering if there was some specific "Wall" this guy was asking about. That is so obvious. EVERYONE refers to the fence concept as a "fence". If he used this terminology this discussion thread wouldn't even exist, because McCain would not have questioned his intent.

As far as each candidate's stance on the issue...they are very similar. Both support a path to citizenship. Both support penalties for breaking our laws. Both support a long term approach. Neither support deporting large banks of illegals.

This is not an issue where they are too far apart. Perhaps that's why the sides are resorting to insults and slander here in this discussion.

Posted by: Steve in Missouri | September 19, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Who gives a rats a** what illegal aliens and the racists at Univision think!!!!!!!

They should love Juan McAmnesty!!!!

Posted by: Joe American | September 19, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

With 7-to-20 million illegals spread throughout the country and Democrats requiring no ID to vote, the illegals alone can thwart our electoral process. We need to get rid of all Democrat majorities, install a Republican president and work the problem.
Perhaps giving what little is left of California to Mexico in exchange for the labor to build a 2000 mile immigration fence would work. Many Hollywood stars have said they will leave the country if Obama isn't elected. This way they could get out and pawn their "C" movies on the Mexicans and we can have fair and balanced elections. One draw back,they might not be able to show classics like "The Good, Bad, abd the Ugly."
I know... brilliant!I'm used to it...you can applaud....

Posted by: Matoosa Ferrara | September 19, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Truth -

thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. thank you for saying that. thank you for offering an educated viewpoint.

not sure what my viewpoint is on this. Hmm. My father is a legal immigrant,and its been a hellish ordeal at times. and yes,he sends money home. But, uh...it's 1) legally obtained, through a job and 2) to his remaining family members, who can hardly get a decent job with a living wage in a country torn apart by corruption and oil greed. legislate morality? is that our government's job? I'm pretty sure he never would have come here if it was. Good points, Truth.

Posted by: wow | September 19, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Both of the cadidates are pandering mexican clowns. Who would ever vote for a President that would not even secure its own borders to protect the citizens who elected he/she or pay his/her pay check? Its all a big joke and there is NO CHANGE!

Vote third party and pray one day these parties will soon just GO AWAY.

Bob Barr 2008 or whoever...yes, your vote counts and you don't have to join the circus to do so.

Posted by: John | September 19, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

McCain is a giant step backward, but that's what a lot of Americans want. They want a society of rich and poor. Vote Obama and Democratic if you're middle class, and vote Republican if you're rich.

Posted by: meb | September 19, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

So? All I know is that it was a good idea on both McCain's and Obama's parts to vote for the wall. Who wants illegal immigrants? If immigrants are here, they need to be here legally!

Posted by: Lu | September 19, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

McCain is a lying dog....and Obama is too . They both pander for votes from lawbreakers! They make me sick!

Posted by: Mary | September 19, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

who cares what happens with the economy..
who cares if we go to war...

who cares if McCain lies...

as long as he panders to the religious right
and says pro life

what else matters?

Posted by: baby murder | September 19, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

McCain has slipped badly in the polls since making his worst blunder of the campaign, saying "The economy is sound." on the day the markert plunged. This has ended what is called "the Palin bounce". Palin is STILL a force with conservatives, but McCain is making blunder after blunder, and is hurting the ticket. Today, Palin made a Freudian slip, saying "A Palin-McCain administration..." In doing so, she told us what many of us wish were the case, that she was the Presidential nominee. McCain's age is showing, and he continues to oander horribly to illegals and Latinos. He fears that sounding "law and order-ish" on the Invasion by Mexico is going to cost him the election. The dumb dodo doesn't realize that conservatives--once they realize he's just as pro-Amnesty as he ever was--aren't dumb as he is and will stay home or vote for Bob Barr.

It's too bad McCain is such an idiot, because Palin deserves a better running mate.

Posted by: levotb | September 19, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Lets face it the government is out of touch with the people they supposed to represent.

Immigration has happen throughout history and the one we have now is a young generation moving north to work and a large number of retired USA citizen are moving south for the warmer climate, less expensive lifestyle.

Suburbs of the retired USA citizen are springs in Mexico and Central America because they can buy a lot more real estate for their buck, hire a maid, pay less taxes and many other benefits.

Meanwhile the illegal immigrants come over to fill a demand and are willing to work to make their dream come true. Even now that anti-immigrants feeling is driving them underground. As more laws are passed their survival make them criminals. The state do not allow them to get driver licenses, so they have to drive without them, then they can't get insurance without a driver's license, so they go without it.
Everybody seems so worry about illegals when the country is rotting from the inside, starting with the government becoming the front for the large rich corporations.

Posted by: iggy | September 19, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse


The Federal Government has breeched its Constitutionally required duty under Article IV, Section IV to protect citizens and states from foreign invasion, instead choosing to play politics with the law and mislabeling the invasion (of an estimated 12-20 million armed and unarmed Mexican citizens and another 4-8 million nonMexicans) as merely unfortunate--ignoring the $300+ billion yearly impact on local and state governments and landslide of negative impacts on U.S. citizens.

Each year, foreign invaders murder an estimated 4,380 Americans in their undeclared war on U.S. citizens, a death toll totaling more than the 5 years of war in Iraq combined. Compounding the impacts, another 4,735 innocent U.S. citizens are slaughtered by illegal alien drunk drivers who should not be in the country at all but are allowed to remain by local, state, and federal law enforcement. Equally sickening is the fact that over 243 innocent children are brutally molested or raped each month by foreign intruders--tragic crimes that could have been avoided by simply enforcing our immigration laws--clearly Pelosi and Gutierrez and any elected official that votes against enforcing our laws in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, stand against American children!

Many journalist and researchers now conclude that President Bush and Congress have raised their collective incompetency to the level of criminal negligence, and even treason, for failing to deal with these issues as required by law and Constitution. Criticism, legal, and political issues aside in the US, the war South of the border continues to escalate and threaten the US.

President Bush, Mexican President Calderon, and Canadian Prime Minister Harper are pressing forward aggressive plans to permanently open the border with Mexico to the U.S. in advancement of their free trade agenda under the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP). The SPP, according to many research analyst, journalist, state legislators and other officials, has been deemed the precursor to the North American Union (NAU). The goal, they claim, is to eventually combine the US, Canada, and Mexico into one country under one currency--the "Amero"-- much like the European Union. It is a claim the three leaders flatly deny, but their actions, and those of all three governments, dictate the plan is well underway.

The result has been that state legislators, like Arizona's State Senator Karen Johnson, have taken bold steps to stop the NAU and have threatened to secede their states from the union in the event unconstitutional mandates such as the SPP are attempted by the federal government. Twelve states have some form of anti-SPP/NAU laws either secured or in the works.

Citizens across the U.S. are awakening to the facts with much anger and bitterness, pointing hatful fingers at both federal leaders and millions of unwanted foreign invaders stealing their resources and opportunities.

This invasion had better be stopped by the people We elected to prevent such things, illegals deported, employers of illegals imprisoned, sanctuary cities not allowed to exist and border agents not thrown into prison for doing their job. Our elected officials had better start doing their jobs of upholding our Constitution, enforcing our immigration laws and protecting our nation and citizens from this invasion aided and abetted by our federal, state and local governments or it looks to me there's going to be a much bigger problem to deal with! U.S. citizens are tired of and don't believe the lies anymore, We see action or non-action or sneaky attempts by our elected officials to hide amnesty and/or benefits for illegal aliens in some bill and it is coming to a boiling point because of our elected officials REFUSAL to enforce our laws and uphold our Constitution.

When the violence does break out, when American citizens have had enough of being ignored and betrayed, when it is time to push back before We lose all that is ours, the blame will be on you and all the elected officials who have refused to do their job.

As American citizens, it is our duty to inform the people We elected to represent us of issues that trouble us and We have put these fellow citizens in a position to help us resolve these issues. I am fulfilling my responsibility as an American citizen by communicating this information and the very real concerns of the American People - fulfill your Oath of Office and responsibilities to U.S. citizens and our nation.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 19, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Of course "Juan McAmnesty" claims he knows nothing about support for a real fence across our borders. That's par for his disgraceful course of shameless Hispandering. He'll tell real conservatives in the GOP one thing ["Border security first"] while telling LaRaza and MALDEF that he'll get "comprehensive immigration reform" - AMNESTY for Illegal Aleins! - passed when he's Prez! Which is it, Senator? Will you enforce the law, or throw in the towel? My bet is you don't have the guts to hold criminals accountable. You don't deserve my vote for Prez. Problem is, neither does your opponent.

Posted by: VivaLaMigra | September 19, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

People who support illegal immigration think about how many people want to be in this country besides those who can simply cross a border to get here. Is it fair to give citizenship to those who broke the law, or those who filled out their paper work and waited. No one is saying that illegal immigrants are bad people and yes they just want a better life for their family, but its not fair to everyone else. I know someone whose family had to run away to fill out paper work and wait to come to America after suffering in the USSR. They had to sneak out of their, and go to Italy, before they came to America. Would it have been fair if someone who had the mean to just walk-on over when everyone else has to wait? Everyone deserves a chance, but a legal one.

Posted by: Amanda | September 20, 2008 1:16 AM | Report abuse

Massive illegal immigration from Mexico is a threat to U.S. citizenship, sovereignty, and the rule of law. The good news is our U.S. borders can be secured and illegal immigration stopped if a simple and obvious step is taken. End the job magnet and illegal aliens will self deport and foreigners thinking of sneaking across our borders won't even try. The unfettered illegal alien invasion of America would be defeated within twelve months if Congress made mandatory the proven highly effective E-Verify program. No jobs for illegal aliens = no illegal immigration. The proof E-Verify would work is how hard pro-amnesty Senators are now fighting to defeat it. They know it will work.

Posted by: Larry Brown | September 20, 2008 2:17 AM | Report abuse

Illegal aliens are "not filling a need" in the labor market. They are CREATING a situation of low wages, law-breaking, identitiy theft, social security fraud BY THEIR MERE PRESENCE.

Also, please explain to me, if illegal Latinos are so "hard working", "honest", have "family values", then why has Mexico been a chronically corrupt, poor, unproductive, backwards nation for centuries?

Why do Latinos have the HIGHEST high school dropout rate? The SECONDEST HIGHEST out of wedlock birthrate? The LOWEST ACADEMIC achievement rate? And the HIGHEST GANG MEMBERSHIP rate?

Just asking..... :)

Posted by: DeportNow | September 20, 2008 7:13 AM | Report abuse

John Mcain lie to us. We vote for Senor Obama - he believe no wall. He let all my family in the country. My cousin and her family need much help and work now and they have new baby coming. They need be here. Senor Obama he make Spanish a law. He say gringos must learn Spanish. Me and my family vote for him.

Posted by: Jose | September 20, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

"Jose" - you are a LIAR! You are not a Mexican. You are a plant. LIBERAL SCUM!

EVERYONE knows that John McCain is the one who has helped the Mexicans. Obama has done NOTHING. EVER.

Using Rush Limbaugh's words is not "fair game" as scumlord Bill Burton asserts. Rush is a comedian whose parody is taken out of context, and used as a cattle prod on those who believe Rush is a racist, which everyone knows is a STUPID assertion. And then they link him with McCain as if to say McCain believes this too.

OBAMA is a Nazi. This is like crying "Juden!" I hate Nazis.

Posted by: TommyF | September 20, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Having people crossing the border illegally harms both Mexico and the United States. I live in Mexico. I see firsthand the effects of having so many bright motivated people sneak across the line to become hotel maids and gardeners. Mexico suffers tremendously for it.

Posted by: Thirdrail1 | September 20, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Jose or East Coast liberal Moron, get a life.

Posted by: Bobby | September 20, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I'd give a thousand dollars to anyone who could give me the name of any member of the Cato institute that actually lives within walking distance of a neighborhood in which a quarter or more residents are illegal aliens.

These bonehead academics love going on about how we "need" the illegals, but have no idea about what sorts of neighborhoods they create, the effects they have on schools and what standards they live by. There's a reason that nearly every single country in Latin America (~20 in all) isn't a place many Americans would want to move to, at least without a few million in the bank as a buffer.

Posted by: Erik | September 20, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Mccain did say that he wouldn't vote for his own immigration bill to satisfy his Neo conservative Base. Mccain won the republican nomination because he through Latino's under the Bus. Once he won the Republican nomination Mccain started speaking of Immigration again and when the Radical right was upset, Mccain began speaking of securing the borders first and then Immigration second. Mccain is nothing but a liar and he'll say and do anything to get elected. Anybody that Mccain would be anything but worst than Bush is in a state of denial. Mccain is not a good leader and would be a worst president than Bush. Mccain and his dangerous Vice President needs to stay out of the White House. Mccain/Palin - The dangerous and Risk your lives vote. Vote for the real leaders Obama/Biden

Posted by: Linda | September 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I will sign the NO ILLEGAL ALIEN LEFT BEHIND ACT when I am el presidente!

Posted by: Juan McAmnesty | September 21, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Linda, neocons LIKE illegal immigration (or, rather, they want it made legal). They like globalization, they like cheap labor. Normal conservatives, by and large, don't. Normal conservatives take the "radical" position that the U.S. has a right to determine and enforce its own immigration laws, just like any other country on the planet.

Posted by: Erik | September 21, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-21-early-voting_N.htm#Close

Wonder why is there early voting this year in some states even before the debates?

Was there always early voting before in the same states?

Or is it new to make one candidate look better before the debates?

Is there any party who is responsible for the independent monitoring of these early voters' ballots?

Hmmmm......

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

After reading MOST of the replies I've come to the conclusion that their are WAY TO many people smoking crack that own computers.. 1st.. McCain and OBama were NOT wrong in voting for a fence to protect our borders.. IF FOR NO OTHER reason then to keep PEOPLE from coming into this country ILLEGALLY . this isn't about letting illegal's into this country but IF they can get in. Terrorist can get in the SAME WAY they do. so YES we NEED to make THIS country secure !!
AND to the person who made the comment " There's a reason that nearly every single country in Latin America (~20 in all) isn't a place many Americans would want to move to, at least without a few million in the bank as a buffer." .
I'm gonna BET You have NO CLUE what country Besides AMERICA that MOST Americans live in other than here.. and the answer LATIN AMERICAN . WHY? NO not because they have "a few million in the bank" but because it's SO CHEAP to live there !! I have nothing against folks moving to America . BUT WHY do some latin americans come here LEGALLY go through the proper channels wait there turn .do what they have to. and some one else sneaks in. and POOF . hey congrades .here's Social Security $$$ and hey let's give you full medical too . THEY are So awarded for sneaking in here illegally while the ones who did it legally have to scrap to get by!!

Posted by: compubyte | September 22, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse


wake up folks McCain-BUSH HATES ImMigrants. considering that Bush has so many latinos in his family and speaks the language very well.

they love imMigrants ONLY when they clean their homes and yard and build their homes. Now all in a sudden their falling OFF the building and dying by the hundreds.
go figure this crap out.

other than that the MCCAIN-BUSH ADMIN HATES IMMIGRANT AND LATINOS TO THE "T" TAKE THAT TO THE BANK. LATINOS WILL FIND THAT OUT SOON ENOUGH

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

HISTORY HISTORY... SOME STATE HAVE ALWAYS HAD EARLY VOTING.............(BUSCALO) LOOK IT UP

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Everyone knows about that fence, which even violates Native American sovereign
lands in an effort to keep Latinos out of the country.

How could McCain "forget" and not know what the interviewer referred to?
He didn't forget. He didn't want to talk about it for fear of alienating Latino voters, the coward.

Posted by: bryony1 | September 22, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to that wonderful fence McCain helped build shown in the picture above, we can sleep soundly, knowing that terrorists will be unable to enter from Mexico.

Unless, of course, some evil Socialist Democrats create free swimming classes.

Vote against the terrorists!
Vote Republican!

Posted by: JakeD | September 22, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

He must have been having a senior moment.

Posted by: Niknikmr | September 23, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Bonus Quote of the Day
"When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed. He said, 'look, here's what happened.'"

-- Sen. Joe Biden, in an interview with CBS News.

Of course, as Reason points out, Roosevelt wasn't president in 1929 and televisions were still experimental.

Posted by: Helen | September 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

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