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Posted at 10:54 AM ET, 09/22/2008

Obama misleads on Social Security

By Michael Dobbs


"If my opponent had his way, the millions of Floridians who rely on it would've had their Social Security tied up in the stock market this week."
--Barack Obama, Daytona Beach, September 20, 2008.

In the wake of the wild gyrations on the stock market, Barack Obama has been trying to convince retirees that they would be in deep trouble if his Republican rival succeeded in privatizing Social Security. He is telling seniors that John McCain "wants to gamble with your life savings," and claimed that the Republican plan would cut "Social Security benefits in half." His predictions of doom are a gross distortion of McCain's position on Social Security.

The Facts

McCain has expressed support for a never-adopted Bush administration proposal to allow Americans to invest a portion of the money that they now pay in payroll taxes in "personal retirement accounts" that would be tied to stock market performance. Participation would have been voluntary. Eligibility would have been limited to future retirees, with a cut-off date of birth dates after 1950.

As my fellow fact-checkers at Factcheck.org have pointed out, the Bush proposal would not have affected the current generation of retirees. It is therefore wrong for Obama to suggest that "millions of Floridians" who presently rely on Social Security would have seen their retirement nest-egg nosedive as a result of the battering that stocks have taken on Wall Street.

The Obama campaign has also been unable to produce satisfactory support for its claim, in the YouTube video above, that a McCain administration would slash Social Security benefits by half. According to a study by one of Obama's top economics advisers, Jason Furman, the 2005 Bush proposal would reduce the annual benefits of an average wage-owner who retires in 2045 by about 16 percent, compared with the benefits he is projected to receive under the current system. For the average wage earner who retired in 2075, the reduction would be in the region of 28 percent.

Under the Bush-McCain plan, Social Security benefits would still rise, but they would be pegged to inflation rather than wages. Click here for a more extensive analysis by Factcheck.org.

The Pinocchio Test

Obama has distorted McCain's position on Social Security, just as McCain has twisted Obama's position on taxes. (The McCain camp falsely claims that Obama wants to raise taxes across the board.) As the presidential election campaign enters its final phase, both candidates have resorted to scare tactics and a barrage of misleading, sometimes false, statistics to drum up votes.

(About our rating scale.

By Michael Dobbs  | September 22, 2008; 10:54 AM ET
Categories:  3 Pinocchios, Barack Obama, Candidate Watch, Economy  
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Comments

The Bush-McCain privatization plan is actually more outrageous than Obama's ads say. What he should say is that it is an attempt to default on one-third of the national debt (the portion held by the SS fund as a result of the government borrowing its surplus) and a gigantic transfer of wealth from those paying FICA taxes since 1983 to the relative handful of people that benefited from Republican tax cuts.

Posted by: mnjam | September 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

The Bush-McCain privatization plan is actually more outrageous than Obama's ads say. What he should say is that it is an attempt to default on one-third of the national debt (the portion held by the SS fund as a result of the government borrowing its surplus) and a gigantic transfer of wealth from those paying FICA taxes since 1983 to the relative handful of people that benefited from Republican tax cuts.

Posted by: mnjam | September 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

It's disappointing to see Obama follow McCain into the mud in recent weeks. Public reaction has been relatively pronounced over McCain's lies; shouldn't that be taken as a reason to hold more strongly to the truth in his own campaigning?

Posted by: Nate | September 22, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

It's disappointing to see Obama follow McCain into the mud in recent weeks. Public reaction has been relatively pronounced over McCain's lies; shouldn't that be taken as a reason to hold more strongly to the truth in his own campaigning?

Posted by: Nate | September 22, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Dobbs wrote, "Obama has distorted McCain's position on Social Security, just as McCain has twisted Obama's position on taxes."

Why is it necessary to point out McCain twisting Obama's tax position? You already covered that in another article. This article is about Obama distorting McCain's view on Social Security. Stick to the topic.

The only reason I can see for you doing this is to defend Obama by saying that McCain is doing the same thing. Not really the best defense.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure that millions of Floridians, who are not currently retired, are relying on their "Social Security nestegg" to help them reach their financial retirement goals. Unless I'm mistaken, Obahma does not specify current receipients of Social Security benefits. Obahama is correct.

Posted by: Alan Mirabelle | September 22, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-21-early-voting_N.htm#Close

Wonder why is there early voting this year in some states even before the debates?

Was there always early voting before in the same states?

Or is it new to make one candidate look better before the debates?

Is there any party who is responsible for the independent monitoring of these early voters' ballots?

Hmmmm......

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

To Alan Mirabelle:

Look at the transcript for the entire ad. Its clear he's talking about people currently drawing on Social Security. You're really stetching it if you think he meant all tax payers (all of which have a Social Security nest egg).

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Democrats for John McCain and Sarah Palin 2008

Posted by: Heather | September 22, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

You don’t have to be retired to rely on Social Security. Anyone 58 and younger would potntionally have a large part of their Social Security tied up in these Wall Street accounts if McCain/Bush had their way. Senator Obama's basic point is true. If McCain got his way and we had private accounts people who are relying on that money for their retirement in the very near future would be in a very difficult situation. Obama should have left the word "had" out of the sentence, then there would be no confusion at all.

The truth is, McCain is planning to appoint still another commission to find a solution to the Social Security problem. and since McCain has already ruled out an increase in withholding for wealthy individuals, the only "solution" his commission can come up with is to cut benefits. The investment in Wall strret was the fig leaf to give retirees the false hope that if the stock market surged, this decrease in benefits might be off-set.

Posted by: bgjd1979 | September 22, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

GOP WILL BANKRUPT THE GOV'T AND THE COUNTRY ....AND RE-WRITE ALL OF ITS PROMISES....WALL STREET HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR 10 YEARS....NO RETIREMENTS...NO HEALTH CARE.....NO LONG-TERM OLIBATIONS OF ANY KIND!

WELCOME TO FREE MARKET TERRORISM!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I think you're misreading his claim. It was if we had ALREADY put people's social security funds into the stock market, this crash would have wiped people out.

Obviously, we didn't (and shouldn't) adopt that plan. And it's true that, even if we had adopted it when proposed, the money wouldn't be in the market yet.

But the fact remains that, had people had their retirement savings in the market during this crash, they'd have lost it. That's why it's a bad idea to gamble with your safety net. No wonder the Republicans keep proposing it.

Posted by: JakeR | September 22, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Senator Obama is desperate. He is playing with fear. How nasty to trick elderly people! No Obama.
Vote McCain/Palin08
Hillary Clinton 2012

Posted by: mmarii | September 22, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Polls show that Obama has been negative towards McCain 77% of the time while McCain was negative 52%. Chew on those facts!!!!

Posted by: frank | September 22, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

PA has alot of Dem's for McCain ... blacks in PA voted Hillary because they hate Obama. I feel their pain.

Posted by: Beautiful | September 22, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I live in Pittsburgh and Obama is not well liked here. HE IS AN ELITEST and has nothing to offer the good people of Pittsburgh. Wake up and look at his record with the poor folks of his own state? How are they making out? I'll say no more. GO STEELERS AND JOHN MCCAIN!!

Posted by: PittsburghforMcCain | September 22, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

I live in Pittsburgh and Obama is not well liked here. HE IS AN ELITEST and has nothing to offer the good people of Pittsburgh. Wake up and look at his record with the poor folks of his own state? How are they making out? I'll say no more. GO STEELERS AND JOHN MCCAIN!!

Posted by: PittsburghforMcCain | September 22, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

If you raise corporate taxes,
every american will pay those
taxes every time they seek
products or services,
what about the obama LIE
about taxcuts for 95% of
americans?
This Is A Blantant Lie
To The Intelligence of The
American People.
You are not getting a taxcut,
you are getting a tax HIKE added
to your economy as a whole.

Posted by: usa3 | September 22, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Democrats for McCain!
Women for McCain!
Veterans for McCain!
Families for McCain!
Independents for McCain!
Policemen for McCain!
Teachers for McCain!
Hillary for McCain!
Bill Clinton for McCain!
Joe Biden for McCain!
Biden's comments on McCain: "I think he can be ready, but right now, I don't think he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on the job training." - Senator Joe Biden (If his own running mate has doubts about whether he's ready for the job... shouldn't you?)

Hillary's take on Obama: "I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002." -- Hillary Clinton

Bill Clinton on The View TODAY: Clinton said McCain was instrumental his administration's normalizing relations with Vietnam and said he had proven his worth to the American people.

"The American people, for good and sufficient reasons, admire him," Clinton said of McCain. "He's given something in life the rest of us can't match."

DON'T VOTE MUSLIM!!

Posted by: DemsforMcCain | September 22, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Lawyers for McCain!
Doctors for McCain!

"It seems to have been the forgotten topic of this primary season. Every time Obama talks, its change change change. Hope hope hope. So what is this change that he has created such hope about? To quote a friend of mine, its change in your pocketbook. What kind of change in your pocketbook? Well, if you are reading this blog because you want to be a doctor or a biglaw associate, then the change is going to be pretty severe.

Lets assume that Obama is able to pass two of his three big policy initiatives (and when I say policy initiatives I mean answers when he is pinned down and forced to talk policy) and he rolls back the Bush Tax Cuts while uncapping social security.

What does that mean? Well, it means taxes for first year lawyers go WAY up. How far? If I am a first year associate immediately after graduation (year 2-3 of the Obama presidency) Obama’s plan takes an ADDITIONAL 17-20K out of my pocket each year. In addition to this, since associate bonuses are generally payed out of a pool of additional bonus funds, a pool that will be significantly reduced by increased firm contributions to social security, that number could get much higher. How does this work?

Obama will increase the taxes on roughly 35K of a first year associate’s base pay and their entire bnus by 3%. Next, Obama will uncap social security. This means an additional 6.5% tax on about 60K a year of base pay, and another 6.5% tax on 15-35K of first year bonus. Fantastic.

In addition, my employer has a 6.5% increase on the same checks I am taxed on. This means, almost certainly, that the amount my taxes are inreased in that way will be decreased from my bonus. I’m losing on both ends! Awsome.

Doctors, you are in pretty much the same boat.

Change Change Change……. all out of my pocket book. Awesome."

http://malpractice.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/law-why-i-hate-obama-as-a-potential-president/

Posted by: LawyersforMcCain | September 22, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Oh, so McCain only wants to gamble with the social security funds of people born after 1950. Don't worry seniors, the Republicans just want to screw over your kids and grandkids, not you! Make no mistake, voters: McCain is FOR the privatization of social security. The fact that the Bush plan he supported phases in the casino gradually just shows how devious the Republicans really are.

THE FACTS: McCain voted for Bush’s 2006 social security privatization Plan. In 2006, McCain voted for the Social Security Reserve Fund. The proposal would shift Social Security’s annual surpluses into a reserve account that would be converted into risky private accounts. [SCR 83, Vote #68, 3/16/06; SCR 83, Vote #68, 3/16/06]

In 2000 McCain wanted to divert Social Security money to private accounts. The Wall Street Journal reported that “[a] centerpiece of a McCain presidential bid in 2000 was a plan to divert a portion of Social Security payroll taxes to fund private accounts, much as President Bush proposed unsuccessfully.” The plan would put workers’ retirement money into the risky market and reduce the amount of Social Security payments they would receive from the government. The plan would undermine the Social Security system. [Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08]

McCain STILL proposes privatizing Social Security—despite what his website says. McCain told the Wall Street Journal he still backs a system of private retirement accounts that he supported in 2000 and President Bush pushed unsuccessfully. The Journal reported he “disowned” details of a proposal on his 2008 campaign website that says he would “supplement” the existing Social Security system with personally managed accounts. But when asked about the position change he denied it and promised to change the website to reflect his true position. “I’m totally in favor of personal savings accounts… As part of Social Security reform, I believe that private savings accounts are a part of it—along the lines that President Bush proposed,” McCain told the Journal.[Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08; Campaign Website, accessed 3/3/08]

Posted by: Janice Silverman | September 22, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Dear Janice Silverman: FACT: McCain's social security plan was ALWAYS optional. Never mandatory. Each person could decide for themselves if they trusted the market or not. Don't spin nonsense, you look foolish.

Posted by: Beautiful | September 22, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

The market has been on a rollercoaster ride. Even so, it is still a positive investment tool for those who have been in the market for years. And that will be the same if social security funds were invested in the market. The lie is that people would have lost their social security if part, let me repeat, PART, of their savings was in the market. Not the case at all. While McCain tried to calm fears by saying the fundamentals of the economy is sound, Obama has done the opposite and used fear to take advantage of the situation. Is this the president people want?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

There is no “Obama misleads on Social Security”
HOW MANY TIMES IS THE MEDIA GOING TO ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS OF SEN. OBAMA? ARE THEY IDIOST OR JUST CHOSE NOT TO LISTEN BECAUSE HE’S NOT WHITE?

1. McCain likens himself to Churchill, who was a political economist at the time and he lost all his money when Wall Street went crashing in the 40’s” 50’s. ..McCain will loose this election.

2. Churchill flip flops and change party line when it was convenient to him, same as McCain who took it a little further he changed wives and now claims he’s for change.


3. If it were left up to the McCain-Bush administration we would have lost all of our Social Security Last week.

4. As far as his choice as VP lets look at all the mess she’s in while she’s finally been investigate. In Alaska she charges young and old women who have been raped to pay for the medical exam. What reform did she accomplish? The answer is none she still has not accomplished any reform. Everything that she has done or touched is for her own benefit.


5. McCain’s VP has no respect for the government or the constitution of the USA, because she’s governor she refuses and allows herself and her husband to break the law on being subpoenaed do you really thing the every day American could get away with this. HELL NO WE COULD NOT!
How is anyone with any common sense give this government a blank check without looking, checking, crossing all the T’s and dotting all the It’s. OBAMA IS NOT STUPID, UNLIKE MCCAIN HE THINKS BEFORE HE OPENS HIS MOUTH.

People don’t be fooled about the color of a mans skin. Look at his integrity, his care about his community, the way he has managed a Mega-million dollar campaign in a smooth and professional manner. He will be held more accountable just because of the fact that he is not white and will not get away with the mess many white president can get away with.

THE BEFORE MENTION FACT ALONE SHOULD OPEN YOUR EYES AND GET YOU OUT OF THE SMOKE SCREEN>>>>>>>>>>
THE MEDIA ASK THE SAME QUESTION OF OBMA’S INTEGRITY OVER AND OVER. THEY ARE THE MOST IGNORANTS OF ALL JOURNALIST IN AMERICA THAT THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN. OBAMA will always be black people!


Posted by: 2NO GOES | September 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Palin's issues are "noise" compared to Obama. Let's look at real issues of the guy at the top of the ticket:

1.) Selma got me born...
FACT: your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.
(Google 'Obama Selma' for his full March 4, 2007 speech and articles about its various untruths.)
2.) My Father Was A Goat Herder . . FACT: he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.
3.) My Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter . . . FACT: he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.
4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom . . . FACT: your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out the following link for verification of that and for more. Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia Muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers burned Christians' homes as well as men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took refuge. Obama supported his cousin before the election process here started. (Google 'Obama and Odinga')
5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian . . .
FACT: she does her daily Salat prayers at 5 AM according to her own interviews. Christianity would not have supported her being one of 14 wives to 1 man.
6.) My Name is African Swahili . . .
FACT: your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side, and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side.
While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family were mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate states he's Arab, not African Negro). From....and for more....go to.....
7.) I Never Practiced Islam . . .
FACT: you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years -- until you changed the year before running for public office.
4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in Islam''
8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian . . .
FACT: you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book). February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: 'Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.' This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts.'
9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian . . .
FACT: not one former teacher says you could speak the language.
10.) Because I lived In Indonesia, I have more foreign experience . . .
FACT: you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and could not speak the language.
11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs . . .
FACT: except for Africa and the Middle East, you have never been anywhere else on the planet and have NO experience with our closest allies.
12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion . . .
FACT: you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify. Your classmates said you were just fine.
13.) An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office . . .
FACT: Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.
14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life . FACT: Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.
15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 . . .
FACT: here you are, despite saying live on TV that you would not have enough experience by then -- and you are all about 'having experience first '.
16.) Voting 'Present' is Common In Illinois Senate . . .
FACT: common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.
17.) I Was A Professor Of Law . . .
FACT: you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
18.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer . . .
FACT: you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
19.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill . . .
FACT: you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.
20.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass . . .
FACT: it took just 14 days from start to finish.
21.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill . . .
FACT: your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation -- mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.
22.) I Have Released My State Records . .
FACT: as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, including all the special interests pork hidden within.
23.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess . . .
FACT: you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself in your books.
24.) My Economics Bill Will Help America . .
FACT: your 111 economic policies were combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.
25.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois . .
FACT: even your own supporters characterize your actions as careful rather than bold.
26.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year . . .
FACT: they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you after their creation by a fellow Senator, 'to assist you in a future bid for higher office'.
27.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA . . .
FACT: the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.
28.) I Am Tough On Terrorism . . .
FACT: you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction off Israel.
29.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate . . .
FACT: you passed 26, most of which you didn't write.
30.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics . . .
FACT: you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.
31.) I Don't Take PAC Money . . .
FACT: you take loads of it.
32.) I don't Have Lobbyists . . .
FACT: you have 47 lobbyists on staff, and counting.
33.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad . . .
FACT: your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.
34.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq . .
FACT: you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

More Obama issues:


1.) Selma Got Me Born - Lie, you were born in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - Lie, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - Lie, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - Lie, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in many years.

5.) My Name is African Swahili - Lie, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

6.) I Never Practiced Islam - Lie, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

7.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - Lie, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).

8.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - Lie, not one teacher says you could speak the language.

9.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - Lie, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.

10.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - Lie, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.

11.) An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - Lie, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

12.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - Lie, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

13.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 - Lie, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

14.) Present Votes Are Common In Illinois - Lie, they are common for YOU, but not many others have 130 PRESENT VOTES.

15.) Oops, I Misvoted - Lie, only when caught by church groups and democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

16.) I Was A Professor Of Law - Lie, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

17.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - Lie, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

18.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - Lie, you didn't write it,introduce it, change it, or create it.

19.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - Lie, it took just 14 days from start to finish.

20.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - Lie, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

21.) I Have Released My State Records - Lie, as of May, 1 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

22.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - Lie, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

23.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - Lie, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

24.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - Lie, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

25.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - Lie, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

26.) No One Contacted Canada About NAFTA - Lie, the Candian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.

27.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - Lie, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction of Israel.

28.) I Am Not Acting As President Yet - Lie, after the NAFTA Memo, a dead terrorist in the FARC, in Colombia, was found with a letter stating how you and he were working together on getting FARC recognized officially.

29.) I Didn't Run Ads In Florida - Lie, you ran ads ONLY along the Florida border as well as national ads in an attempt to reach Florida voters 8-12 times per day for two weeks - and you still lost.

30.) I Won Michigan - Lie, no you didn't.

31.) I won Nevada - Lie, no you did not.

32.) I Want All Votes To Count - Lie, you said let the delegates decide, and you have fought not to have another primary in Michigan or Florida.

33.) I Want Americans To Decide - Lie, you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.

34.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - Lie, you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

35.) My Campaign Was Extorted By A Friend - Lie, that friend is threatening to sue if you do not stop saying this. Obama has finally stopped saying this.

36.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - Lie, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer (a fellow democrat that wanted you to replace her in the next term) from running against you by challenging ALL of her signatures and thus running unopposed.

37.) I Don't Take PAC Money - Lie, you take loads of it. The Obama PAC is the largest PAC in the US Senate. I dare Obama supporters to go look this up.

38.) I don't Have Lobbyists - Lie, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

39.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - Lie, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

40.) My Campaign Never Took Over MySpace - Lie, Tom, who started MySpace issued a warning about this to MySpace clients.

41.) I Inspire People With My Words - Lie, you inspire people with other people's words.

42.) I Have Passed Bills In The U.S. Senate - Lie, you have passed A BILL in the U.S. Senate - for Africa, which shows YOUR priorities.

43.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - Lie, you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time, unlike Kucinich, who seems to be out gutting you. You also seem to be stepping back from your departure date in Iraq - AGAIN.

44.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - Lie, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it.

45.) I Only Found Out About My Investment Conflicts Via Mail - Lie, both companies you site as having sent you letters about this conflict have no records of any such letters ever being created or sent.

46.) My Wife Didn't Mean What She Said About Pride In Country - Lie, your wife's words follow lock-step in the vein of Wright and Farrakhan, in relation to their contempt and hatred of America.

47.) Wal-Mart Is A Company I Wouldn't Support - Lie, your wife has received nearly a quarter of a million dollars through Treehouse, which is connected to Wal-Mart.

48.) Treehouse Is A Small Company - Lie, the CEO of Treehouse last year, made more than the CEO of Wal-Mart, according to public records.

49.) University Of Chicago Hospital Pay Is Fair - Lie, your wife's pay raise was nearly 150% her already bloated rate (going from $120K to $320K weeks after you got into the US Senate and tried to get a $1 million pork project for the very same hospital) and the hospital is a Non-Profit Hospital, which made $100,000,000 in the last 3 years. They overcharge blacks VS whites for services, and overcharge everyone in general by 538%!

50.) I Barely Know Rezko - Only 5 Billed Hours - Lie, you have known him for 17 years, and decided to do a real estate deal with him during a time when he was proven to be under investigation. Despite this, you divided your property and had them take off $300K before the mortgage problems started. Then Rezko's wife buys the lot beside it that you can't afford, saving you $625,000.

51.) My Donations Have Been Checked Thoroughly - Lie, you only gave back Hsu ($72K [Yes, the same Hsu, Obama supporters try to tie Clinton to]) and Rezko (first $66K, then when caught lying $86K, then when caught lying again $150K and now caught lying YET AGAIN, it's $250k) their money when publicly called on their involvement in your campaigns.

Posted by: ObamaAZero | September 22, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Answer>>>
NOT EVERYONE CAN BE DOCTORS BUT THE CHANGE DOES WORK FOR MANY MILLIONS OF US.

NOW THE CHANGE IS NO-WHERE TO BE SEEN NOT EVEN IN OUT POCKETS, MUCH LESS GETTING OR HOPING FOR A DEGREE IN MEDICINE. WHEN ALL THE CHANGE WE HAVE LEFT WILL BE USED TO PAY BACK THE HELL HOLE WE ARE IN.

JUST GER THE HELL BACK DOWN TO EARTH. GET A GRIP. IF THE MCcAIN - bUSH ADMINISTRATION WITH ITS lobbyist DID NOT GET US ALL LOOKING FOR SO CALLED WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION WE WOULD NOT BE IN THIS S-HOLE.

MCCAIN-BISH SLAPPED US ALL WITH A WEAPON OF MASS DISTRUCTION AND ALMOST TOOK SS ALONG WITH IT LAST WEEK. SOMETHING WE MAY NEVER GET OUT OF.
WE NEED TO STOP BEING SO SELFISH WITH THE ME, ME, ME. THAT’S THE GREED THAT GOT US HERE IN THE FIRST PALCE

SO GET A GRIP AND GET A LIFE!!!

Posted by: NOREDS-IN08 | September 22, 2008 6:37 PM | Report abuse

MCCAIN HAS ADAPTED BUSH'S POLICY SINSE THE BEGINING OF THE NOAH'S FLOOD.

GIVE US ALL A BREAK.. WE DEALT WITH THIS MESS FOR OOVER 26 YEARS. FOR GOD'S SAKE SOME FOLKS CAN BE FOOLED SOME OF THE TIME. DON'T ASK US TO FOOLED AND FOOLISH AND STUPID ALL THE TIME AND ALL OF THE TIME.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

all those points is proof of a big shot liar:
WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO READ ALL THAT FAKE LYING CRAP.
Yes the taxes for those making 200K or more. Thank God I am right under that. And we should pay our fair share.

OBAMA 08 FOR TOTAL INTEGRITY!

OBAMA A PRESIDENT FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE

OBAMA - NOT TRIGGER HAPPY AND FAST MOUTH, BUT SOMEONE WHO ANALUZES OUR ISSUES AND TRIES TO DOME UP WITH BETTER SOLUTIONS FOR A BETTER AMERICA.

OBAMA - THE VERY BEST FOR AMERICA HAS TO OFFER- 08

VOTE OBAMA 08. HE WILL WIN AND THE BIGOTS WILL HAVE STOMACK PAINS FOR 8 YEARS.

Posted by: WHAT 51 POINTS. | September 22, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

SO WHAT IF .. BUT HE'S NOT ONE OF THOSE LIES.

HATE HURTS YOUR SOUL AND MAKES YOU SEE DEVILS. TO BE HATER IS TO DIE IN AGONY. IT GIVES KIDNEY STONES AND THE LIES ARE JUST THAT L I E S

WHEN THERE IS NO HATE,THERE IS HOPE=> OBAMA
WHEN THER IN INTEGRITY - THERE IS PEACE
WHEN THERE IS SERVICE TO EACH OTHER THERE IS OBAMA-08

08-PRESIDENT OBAMA-OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE. ........OBAMA 08

Posted by: Hate is bad | September 22, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Real Brother here.

I too think it lame to split hairs here. McCain was wrong to tie Social Security to the stock market and the failure of the stock market proves that. Of course this is all hypothetical because Bush and McCain were prevented from doing it.

This simply again shows how wrong McCain is on issues that matter. We all know he's White but come on people use the good sense God gave you for a change.

TKCAL

Posted by: Realbrother | September 22, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

I am actually glad to see that Obama has taken his gloves off. I am tired to see elections get lost because the republicans are so good at mud slinging. It's about time the Democrats learned how to win an election!

Posted by: color blind | September 22, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Here are McCain's views on social security:
http://www.socialsecurity.org/daily/06-07-99.html

Posted by: GrandMaRose | September 22, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Obama was a nasty politician to get his Illinois Senate seat ...even his friends said so ... so what makes anyone think he will be honest in this election!
NOBAMA!!

Posted by: Cassandra Washington | September 22, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

I have been in this country for 7 years and when I arrived I was struck at how poor and uneducated most blacks are. I could never figure out why most had children out of wedlock, sold drugs, and were in jail. They even have the highest rate of HIV!

I suppose it is the slave metality from generations ago but at some point they will have to take responsibility. I think that is the reason Senator Obama appeals to so many whites because he isn't 100% black. He has a black face but the mentality of a white person. That makes the vote palatable and they can feel good about themselves. I doubt many of these white voters would go for an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson - just too black and they are for more representative of the black American - not Barack Obama.

Posted by: Rahiq Syed | September 22, 2008 7:51 PM | Report abuse

I have been in this country for 7 years and when I arrived I was struck at how poor and uneducated most blacks are. I could never figure out why most had children out of wedlock, sold drugs, and were in jail. They even have the highest rate of HIV!

I suppose it is the slave metality from generations ago but at some point they will have to take responsibility. I think that is the reason Senator Obama appeals to so many whites because he isn't 100% black. He has a black face but the mentality of a white person. That makes the vote palatable and they can feel good about themselves. I doubt many of these white voters would go for an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson - just too black and they are for more representative of the black American - not Barack Obama.

Posted by: Rahiq Syed | September 22, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

"I think you're misreading his claim. It was if we had ALREADY put people's social security funds into the stock market, this crash would have wiped people out...

...But the fact remains that, had people had their retirement savings in the market during this crash, they'd have lost it...."

Posted by: JakeR |

This post needs a "fact check". In fact, if a retiree had invested just before this "crash", as you refer to it, depending on the mix of securities he had invested in, he would have probably lost an amount of capital proportional to the drop in the stock market. This is by no means "lost it" or "wiped out", which are barroom terms people who don't understand investments use to amplify risks. And the losses would only be realized if the person happened to cash out of their market position at the low point.

Posted by: Old-guy | September 22, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

even though the ad is exaggerated, obama's does make a point.

imagine, if the privatisation did happen and then this calamity struck. we would have been worried sick, because how do we know what kind of tricky financial-instruments our retirement savings might have turned into? doesn't matter how the policy was made.

we didn't think much about the sub-prime mortgages and how it had been turned into tricky financial instrumenmts, until the whole thing fell apart?

why wouldn't the same thing be true for privatising social security and other things?

policy does not matter if there is no regulation. of all the greedy people on earth, wall street is the greediest. obama definitely struck a chord there, despite failing the pinocchio test.

Posted by: anamika | September 22, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

@ Rahiq Syed

Wow. You probably ought to crack a book about the subject before you crack your teeth about blacks in public. I would recommend "American Apartheid" by Massey or "The Truly Disadvantaged" by Wilson. Referencing a "slave mentality" is just broadcasting your ignorance.

Posted by: viv | September 22, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Obama is telling lies about McCain. But the media usually only prints positive information about Obama. I will be surprised of McCain, who is a more honest person can overcome all this huge media bias. Most journalists are liberal, and most journalists are voting for Obama.

Posted by: Jon | September 22, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Here's a soldier (something Mr. Obama was never considerate of America enough to become) with a special message for you.

The video is entitled "Dear Mr. Obama"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Posted by: Eric | September 22, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Here's a soldier (something Mr. Obama was never considerate of America enough to become) with a special message for you.

The video is entitled "Dear Mr. Obama"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Posted by: Eric | September 22, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Author unknown.
President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to war in Iraq . Bush's mistake came in his belief that this country is the same one his father fought for in WWII. It is not. Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression. The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression, but they still believed fervently in this country. They knew that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the people's duty to back those leaders. Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together, rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not. And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as great then as it is today. Often there were more casualties in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war. But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their differences in WWII and worked together to win that war. Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort. Men who were too old or medically ill lied about their age or condition trying their best to join the military. Women doubled their work to keep things going at home. Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to butter was imposed, yet there was very little complaining. You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling the President. Interestingly enough in those days there were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and complain to them about our President. Instead, they made upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the troops' morale. And a bunch even enlisted. And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the day off with a Pledge of Allegiance and with prayers for our country and our troops! Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared complain about what we were doing to catch spies. A newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being 'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear, or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning. There were a lot of things different back then. We were not subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography, perversion and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed gangs roaming our streets. No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He believed that this was still the country that our fathers fought so dearly to preserve. It is not the same country. It is now a cross between Sodom and Gomorra and the land of Oz. We did unite for a short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we found out that defending our country would require some sacrifices. We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been estimated that about one third or over three hundred million Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause... Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many potential recruits. So... We either win it - or lose it - and you ain't gonna like losing. America is not at war.. The military is at war. America is at the mall, or watching the movie stars. (Remember Obama said in his book 'Audacity of Hope', 'I WILL STAND WITH THE MUSLIMS SHOULD THE POLITICAL WINDS SHIFT IN AN UGLY DIRECTION." ... If you ever forwarded information, now's the time to do it!

Posted by: UnknownAuthor | September 22, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Real Brother here.

The Idiot Rahiq Syed is a Racist(White Supremacist or Black man hating lesbian) and you have to know that when reading his/her nonsense.

This is simply the media trying to bend over backward to be fair to the White candidates who simply are over mactched by Obama. I think they should be called on this because if McCain and Palin were the ones with the Advanced Degrees and the Constitutional Law Professorship and Presidents of the Harvard Law Review and had overcome 450 years of Slavery, Oppression, Discrimination and Racism and had embraced their Black Race and Culture and written two best sellers and become one of three Black Senators since re-construction then nobody would be able to even stand on the same stage as they.

The fact is the White Canddidates get a pass simply for being White when they are clearly inferior and its wrong.

On Friday Obama will expose how DUMB McCain is and the media will try to spin it but you Racists, White Supremacists and Black man hating lesbians will know and so well the rightous caring Americans who the victor was.

TKCAL

Posted by: Realbrother | September 22, 2008 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Real Brother here.

Author unknown please don't waste our time with so much nonsense. George Bush was elected by the same Racists, White Supremacists and Black man hating lesbians who want McCain to continue his DUMB policies. George Bush is a perfect example of what happens when White Idiots are elected simply because they are White.

I live in California and we elected a similar Idiot because he starred as the Terminator. This is the very kind of STUPIDITY that has put Barack Obama on the world stage. We can no longer elect White Idiots who have no other value but the fact that they are White(and hate Blacks).

Now you either make a case against Barack Obama(and not that he has compassion for all people even Muslims) or shut the hell up.

TKCAL

Posted by: Real Brother | September 22, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

I think Mike wants to be fair, but it isn't in him. Even when he sets out to call his candidate, Obama, on a lie, he has to finish the article by pulling McCain into it:

"Obama has distorted McCain's position on Social Security, just as McCain has twisted Obama's position on taxes. (The McCain camp falsely claims that Obama wants to raise taxes across the board.) As the presidential election campaign enters its final phase, both candidates have resorted to scare tactics and a barrage of misleading, sometimes false, statistics to drum up votes."

Isn't the fact checker supposed to be impartial and "fact based"? Isn't there a single journalist left at WaPo, or are you all embedded Obama staffers?

Posted by: close but no | September 22, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, it's exactly the same. McCain lies outrageously for weeks, Obama makes one incorrect (but equivalent) comparason. I guess it's all even now.

The Repugs whine, and WaPo jumps. You've made yourself a joke to anyone who's actually paying attention. Totally ridiculous pander.

Posted by: Brix | September 22, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Give me a break. McCain has been so much less honest than Obama its not even funny.

I'm sick of the media cowering to McCain in an attempt to be balanced- just stick to the truth- which is that McCain is taking the low road because he can't talk straight anymore.

McCain's ads about sex ed and taxes are plain old scummy and blatant lies. McCain will do anything to win.

SNL and John Stewart have been better with the facts than the MSM- its incredible.

GO OBAMA/ BIDEN

Posted by: Doug M | September 22, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

"

Polls show that Obama has been negative towards McCain 77% of the time while McCain was negative 52%. Chew on those facts!!!!

Posted by: frank | September 22, 2008 4:46 PM "

Guess I can't support Obama as strongly as I otherwise would. I'm negative toward McCain 100% of the time!

Posted by: tom | September 22, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama is a serial exaggerator to pump up his thin resume.

Posted by: cab91 | September 22, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

"Obama has distorted McCain's position on Social Security, just as McCain has twisted Obama's position on taxes. (The McCain camp falsely claims that Obama wants to raise taxes across the board.)"

Except this. While Obama is factually wrong both in letter and spirit of his social security distortion, McCain is maybe fudging in letter but is dead-on in the spirit of his tax assessment of Obama. Taxing people over 250,000 is a tax on small businesses. To make up for it, the small business is likely to pass the cost on its employees/customers.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

It's disappointing to see Obama follow McCain into the mud in recent weeks. Public reaction has been relatively pronounced over McCain's lies; shouldn't that be taken as a reason to hold more strongly to the truth in his own campaigning?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well said. I think the media jumped on McCain to empower Obama's resolution of staying above the mud. The went after McCain so Obama wouldn't have to. What does Obama do? He gets greedy and decides to tuck away Media's assistance in his back pocket and get down in the mud anyway. What else do you expect from a person borne out of the Chicago swamp of politics.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Before you all post all this internet Nonsense. Why don't you check a site like either TruthorFiction.com or any other Hoax sites first before you start spreading untrue rumors! Here that Anon.. Most of what you just posted are lies and half truths. If you did any research, you would know this.

Yeah, McCain-Palin. The Palins Disobey the law and don't answer to supeanas regarding Troopergate. Falling in line just like Cheyey and his pal Scooter! McCain Palin don't know the meaning of change!

Posted by: CALSGR8 | September 22, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Numbers show Dems do better for middle class. Face the truth and stick with empiricism. More growth with Dems for more people across spectrum. I'm in wage bracket that benefits from GOP rule, but in broader sense, I'm better off with Dems who cater to middle class. I care about middle class because I deal with advanced but unequal countries on business, where a lot of wealth owned by very few. No way for anybody to live. Rich suffer when crime is bad and nobody can go out after a certain hour, like Pakistan or South Africa. But I've lost patience with middle class in red states who are too lazy to understand that GOP is laughing all the way to the bank with their money, while they crow about abortion and gay marriage--issues that I don't need govt to decide for me. Meanwhile, massive wealth transfer from middle class to "elitists" on GOP watch. Let them hang themselves a few more cycles, maybe they'll learn. If you make less than $80K per year, and you're still voting GOP, you get what you deserve.

Posted by: Carrie NY | September 22, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Keep taxing and you won't have to worry about helping the middle class. There won't be an economy or jobs available to go to ... therefore your middle class now becomes low class. get it? You all are so greedy and so ready to take what you haven't earned and what isn't rightfully yours for some "robinhood, Obamahood" propaganda. Think. Sure, tax the hell out of businesses, capital gains and wait and see what job you wake up to? We'll all be working at McDonalds! I for one, admire those who in business and have no beef with how much money they make as long as I'm being paid well and I really am happy with my income considering I have a high school diploma for my education and make $60K/year (which includes overtime). What have I done to deserve more? In reality, my company is paying me well and I hope those who run the company I work for continue making money. I don't care how much their bonuses are. I am being paid a fair wage for my contribution and am sure I'm not qualified to do what they do.

Posted by: Dontbegreedy | September 22, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Did any of you hear Newt on Greta tonight? What he said made sense to me .. anyone here proficient in Wallstreet enough to elaborate?

Posted by: Newt | September 22, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse

John McCain states, "He will follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell," in order to capture him. He also states, “I know where he is,” and "I know how to do it!"
But, only if he is elected President of the United States……FIRST!

Something on the order of "I know how to win wars," even though his participation in the Vietnam war was far from what could be considered a success. Either for him or for the United States!

John McCain will say and do ANYTHING he feels necessary to win an election.

Posted by: motiv8ted | September 23, 2008 1:30 AM | Report abuse

Some of you people REALLY need to go to both of the candidates' websites and READ their tax proposals. Regarding small businesses, Obama proposes a 50% tax credit on health care benefits provided to employees. That's a big nut right there that no one is talking about. The estate tax would affect amounts OVER $7 million - how many middle class families have estates worth more than $7 million when they die? No capital gains taxes for small businesses, and a maximum of %20 on family capital gains over $250k.

McCain wants to treat health care benefits as taxable, which affects middle class and working class workers. That's really going to help people get back on their feet??

Every media outlet that has compared the two tax plans, including the Post, has said Obama's is better.

Research the numbers before crying uncle all the time. Vote for your own self-interests instead of your personal bias. Wake up before it's too late, for ALL Americans.

Posted by: bb | September 23, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Sad to see such aggressively upset comments.
I am for Obama. I have learned from 8 years of Republican politics of hypocritical Christian leanings.
Talk means nothing. Actions do.

I would never gamble on another Republican lead team. They have bankrupted the Country. Don't you get it?

This Country is bankrupt and the Bush Administration did it.
The war on terrorism could have been fought many ways. The war on dictatorship Saddam Hussein could have been waged many ways.

That war was planned and begun way before 9-11.
Bush Jr. was strategically put in pplace to "finish it off".
This was a war for oil first and foremost.
The vested interest by the Bush family and by Cheney is obvius proof.

Now the pick of Palin for V.P.
We know it is not her experience that she was picked for.
It is her Big Oil State and Drill, Baby, Drill mindset.
She is an opportunist, too.
And she dares to call herself a holier than thou Christian, "Pro-Life", while promoting brutal aerial hunting and bounties for severed wol legs in Alaska.

The same old greed, hypocrisy, self-serving platform in a few different boy types.

The sad thing is that some people never learn. Some people seem to enjoy the destructive policies that are ruining the Country, it's internationL reputation, it's rights of people tosee the pillage of tens of thousands of Irauis by our Holy soldiers.

Give me a break!
Give all of us a break. And Christians for more of this mess, why do you create your own Armageddon? Do you prefer MAss destruction?
I truly do not understand why people cannot learn from the obvious.

Posted by: disgusted in Seattle | September 23, 2008 3:02 AM | Report abuse

ObamAZero's facts should be read carefully by all. What he says is true. No one should be elected president with that record.

More facts:-

(1)Obama went to an unknown, non-academic college in California called Occidental College. There, his friends were Muslim. During the summer, he went to Karachi - hotbed of Islamic extremism. Obama refuses to release his college records. No info on what courses he took or the grades he received.

(2) Obama transferred to Columbia. He refuses to release his transcript. No info on what courses he took or the grades he received. Refuses to release his senior thesis. It is known to have been on Russia. He is the only candidate who has not released his records. He must be hiding information which would cause the electorate not to want to vote for him.

(3) At Columbia, Obama roomed off-campus with a Muslim guy named Saddique. The Wall Street Journal interviewed over 400 people who were in Obama's class and no one can remember him. He did not participate in any school activities.

(4) Did not apply to Harvard Law until years later. He had a recommendation from a rich Arab Muslim with influence. It is likely that his college grades were not good so it is unclear how or why he was admitted to Harvard Law.

(5) At Harvard Law, whilst he was editor of the Law School - he did not publish any article on law. This is extremely unusual.

(6) In his over 10 years as a senior lecturer in law, he also did not publish any article on law. This is even more unusual. It indicates that Obama did not have the legal knowledge and ideas sufficient to be able to write an article worthy of being published. His claim to be a "constitutional scholar" IS A LIE. You can't be regarded as a legal scholar without publishing legal writing.

(7) After law school, he went to Chicago - obviously with the plan to get into politics. But unlike almost every other politician who is also a lawyer, he never worked as a lawyer in a pubic way. He joined a small firm in Chicago with political connections to the black community. He was there 1 or 3 years - the resume is unclear and the lies abound. But he never did any trials or even went into court. So no one ever saw whether he knew any law. This is extremely unusual for a lawyer. Almost all lawyers who are future politicians go into the DA's office, US or State's Attorney's office.They go to court, do trials or write the laws. He did NOTHING.


He is an empty suit as a lawyer, and an empty suit as a legislator. Even the best spin on his resume abundantly indicates that he will be an empty suit as a president.

From an objective point of view, you judge a person based on his past record. His indicates that he does not have the knowledge, experience and judgment to be president. The buck stops with the president. It is insufficient for him to just call up a bunch of people, ask them their opinion and then make a decision based on the opinion of the unelected person who most forcefully persuaded him, or he owed the most to.

IMPORTANTLY, it is a little known fact that Obama did not want to publicly be against the war. He did not want to give the 2002 speech in which he was against the war. One of his Chicago money bags made him to it. A woman from Lake Shore. So much for his perspecacity in being against the war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND SO MUCH FOR THE ENTIRE RATIONALE OF HIS CAMPAIGN - TIME AND TIME AGAIN, OBAMA HAS USED THIS SPEECH AS THE PROOF THAT HE HAS JUDGMENT!!!!!!!!!!! BUT IT WASN'T HIS JUDGMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 23, 2008 6:02 AM | Report abuse

For all the mud-slinging and the name-calling, it's sad that people can't focus on the basic facts. McCain has said uncountable times that he supports privatization and de-regulation, whether in Social Security, on Wall Street, or in our healthcare system. Although the Republicans have not succeeded in implementing these plans yet (and cleverly "grandfather out" current seniors, who are too smart to sacrifice their own financial security), if you vote for McCain that's what you're choosing. It's a simple choice; if you think deregulation and privatization are working and want to see them applied more widely, vote McCain.

Posted by: Mira | September 23, 2008 7:03 AM | Report abuse

Obama’s Bailout Plan

The Bush, Paulson, Bernacki plan endorsed by McCain is being promoted to bail them out of their failed policies is the same old tax cuts in a massive scale. The tax cuts created a ten trillion dollar national debt; the more massive tax bail out will balloon the debt bankrupting our country. If the Democrats do not go along with the Bush-McCain failed plan, the Republicans will berate Obama and the Democrats as “the do nothing party”! Soon after the Bush plan was announced, MCain came out with his plan that was very much the same--very strange. Are they grooming him as our next president?

Obama must come out on prime time to remind the American people that the taxpayers did not cause the sorry mess that Bush, Paulson, and Bernacki created. They had years to do something about this crisis; instead they allowed our economy to collapse. Obama must tell Mr. Bush to fire them both; that his plan will assure full employment without inflation and recession. This allows a growth economy that will finance health care, education, retirement, and other welfare service without the taxpayers’ money.

All he asks is for Bush and his advisers to get out of his way!

Respectfully, Daniel J. Roque and Richard C. Barnum

23Sep08

Posted by: Roque & Barnum | September 23, 2008 7:04 AM | Report abuse

To ALL the obamakins and of course the bias CNN & MSNBC I have one simple request. Please spare me the hope and the change bull, and the Bush's third term, McSame etc… Please just tell American voters what qualifies Barack Obama to run this country. What qualifies him to oversee our $14 trillion economy, the largest on earth? What qualifies him to be commander-in-chief of the U.S. armed forces in a time of war? Please just give me one single solid qualification. And race does not qualify!! That would be one more than anyone including cable media has provided to date. WE ALL HAVE GROWN EXTREMLY TIRED OF MEDIA SAINTED OBAMA….

Aug. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Nigerian Stock Exchange Chief Executive Officer Ndi Okereke-Onyiuke is being investigated after holding a fund-raising event linked to U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama, Agence France-Presse reported.
U.S. electoral laws forbid donations from foreigners to electoral campaigns.

Obama keeps reaching back to Chicago political past for policy advisers, and pulling one despicable, vile, and even evil “rabbit” after another out of his hat.
The list of Barack Obama’s radical associations is long and it keeps getting longer. Some are now well-known, but many are not. They need to be.

23 years at TUCC with Jeremiah Wright and James Meeks. racist sermons on Youtube.
He chose the most radical church in the country; chose to immerse himself in hard-core ideological radicalism. Never before has this country considered such a radical leftist for its chief executive.

Michael Pfleger and his hateful and race-hating ramblings, Obama met while carrying out his own radical social activism as community organizer at ACORN, (radical organization)

Penny Pritzker, heads Obama camp National Finance Committee was president of Superior Bank - massively failed and she literally bought her way out of jail paying $460 MILLION fine; was the very epicenter of subprime loan scandal” that would come to eat this nation’s financial system alive.

Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson, former head of Obama’s vice presidential selection committee, discovered he benefited from sweetheart loans from subprime king Countrywide.

Tony Rezko certainly and his federal indictments and financial dealing with Obamas of course and William Ayers, US terrorist bomber, Obama-co-lecturer, fellow board member, neighbor, and friend.

Communist Frank Marshall Davis, obama mentor; Saul Alinsky and Gerald Kellman (Kellman’s Woods Fund is how Obama hooked up with terrorist William Ayers)

Chicago lawyer Mazen Asbahi, appointed as Obama camp national coord for Muslim n affairs also stepped down after news about his stint on the fund’s board - which includes fundamentalist imam - prompting The Wall Street Journal inquiries about relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood and his long personal relationship with Hamas Jamal Said.

Obama desperately needs voters to forget hes the son of a Muslim father who served an incredibly brutal and corrupt Kenyan government; to forget he attended a madrassa in Indonesia and practiced Islam; forget that he campaigned in Kenya on behalf of Raila Odinga, who relied upon chaos, corruption, and violence in his campaign; numerous associations with radical Muslims; forget the photographs of Obama in traditional Muslim clothes, hanging with Muslim radicals such as Mazen Asbahi and anti-Semite Rashid Khalidi.

The mainstream media has frankly put the security of our great country at risk with an Obama coronation media like CNN & MSNBC is the only way Obama managed to steal the Dem nom. It’s extremely concerning that so many Americans could care less about who their candidate really is?? simply amazing and frankly scarey.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 23, 2008 7:06 AM | Report abuse

fact free analysis from fact free dobbs.

what is the effect of switching from cpi-wages to cpi all urban or combined. (Answer: about 1 percent per year in a normal economic time an yes i may be rounding up.) this difference is significant especially over 70 years and would CUT THE BENEFIT IN HALF.

if only fact checker was NUMERATE or honest, analytical and objective rather than a GOP leaning hack.

Posted by: ftfc | September 23, 2008 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Nothing misleading in this ad. I'm 20 years from retirement, but I'm definitely relying on my social security. If I'd followed McCain's lead, that money would be gone. Same on fact checker for pretending otherwise.

Posted by: Jayne | September 23, 2008 7:37 AM | Report abuse

For all those who are commenting about Obama following McCain into the mud, I would remind you that the first truly deceptive ad of the campaign occurred last spring when Obama's ad accused McCain of wanting the war in Iraq to last 100 years. To posit that Obama is "reluctantly following McCain into the mud" (as many media observers have) is deceptive in and of itself.

Posted by: Buffal0Bill | September 23, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Okay so what else is new from the Obama camp.

He distorts facts to make himself look better. He will take one quasi-fact and then it is the truth AS OBAMA SEE IT.

Enough said... His is as crooked,deceitful, lying campaign that we have ever had the opportunity to view.

He continues to tell half-truth, hide his lack of academic achievement, his use of every diversity/affirmative action program to attend those Elite Private Schools,his taking advantage of the Chicago Political Machinery... to get to where he is.

And he HAS NOT MADE ONE TOUGH decision in his political career.. even today... he lets outs tell him what to say and do..

Thus no guts, no glory.

Do you homework, and see if you can figure out how a 'B' student got into Harvard Law School, check out the details of how he got elected to his state senate position, and how he got elected into the US Senate.

SKILL and ability have not had anything to his accomplishments. It is all about using the system to benefit HIMSELF.

Posted by: Miller51550 | September 23, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Isn't it refreshing that Obama is bringing a change to the status quo type of politics by lying through his teeth. I just wish this would get some airtime on the network news. They sure didn't hesitate to point out Hillary's Pinnochios did they.

Posted by: flcracker | September 23, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Obama has built his carrer on the basis of lies from Rev Wright to Tony Eezko, all with the aid of a terrorist Bill Ayers.

To call this man an empty suit is an insult to clothes hangers.

He will make the Jimmy Carter admin look like "good years" with double digit unemployment and inflation rates. There was even a "misery index" to show how everyone felt about it.

Should he be elected, everyone's tax will go up right away. The Bush tax cuts will hit the payceck right away. That will show you how the tax cuts were not just for the rich.
Buy the (wet)dream if you must but I predict he will financially criple this nation while he plays with the economy and his marxist plan. We will also be hit by terrorists a few times - because he will not stike back. He will also have to bring back the draft... who will serve under this idiot!!

Posted by: ct yankee | September 23, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Having read the many comments in this column, I must say that most who have commented here haven’t a clue what has been said and by whom! The first thing the “dyed in the wool” Obama supporters need to do is, “really” look at Senator Obama’s record in the Senate and the law he now wants passed in the Congress (S.2433). All of what follows can be verified in the Congressional Record. Obama has always voted to increase taxes. It was the Democrats and Jimmy Carter who bankrupted Social Security, not the Republicans and Obama’s statements about it in Florida, that he has attributed to McCain, are completely false! Obama’s S.2433 will increase taxes on working American taxpayers by 30% across the board! That’s the largest tax increase in the history of this country! That means that working people in this country will loose 30% more of their “take home pay”. I know I can’t afford it. I think John McCain is to liberal for me, but he has always been a “tax cutter” never a “tax raiser”! If you really look at all the legislation over the last 50 years, that raised taxes on American citizens, all of it was proposed and supported by Democrats, with Republican’s opposing any tax increases at all! Anyone who disputes this needs to pay attention and read the Congressional record, where the facts are kept. Still further, Democrats are costing taxpayers billions by taking “earmarks” that John McCain has never taken and has tried to eliminate altogether. Earmarks are nothing more than outright stealing from the American taxpayer. Furthermore, it’s illegal and nothing more than theft, that is forbidden by our Constitution! Last year Obama took 386 million dollars for his “special slush fund” in earmarks, to “buy votes”. This year he has already signed himself up for a billion dollars in illegal earmarks. So those of you who say McCain is screwing people on Social Security are fools and haven’t a clue what your talking about. Obama is always voting to raise taxes and McCain never has! Its just that simple. Get an education, learn to read and do so before you comment again…it makes you look stupid!

Posted by: The Doc | September 23, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

You party people just keep bickering...yawn.

Democrats for McCain/Palin 08

See you in 2012

Posted by: DCMOM | September 23, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

...to "allow" Americans to invest a portion of the money that they now pay in payroll taxes in "personal retirement accounts" that would be tied to stock market performance. Participation would have been voluntary.

Allow and voluntary being the key words.

McCain/Palin '08

Posted by: Nobama 08 | September 23, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Lies, Damned Lies, and How Much Should Obama Lie?

By Don Hazen, AlterNet
Posted on September 23, 2008, Printed on September 23, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/99891


Lies are everywhere. It's a veritable lying epidemic out there in campaign America. Yet, it was still surprising when corporate writer Farhad Manjoo suggested that Barack Obama's problem in the campaign was that he wasn't lying enough.

Perhaps it is quaint, but at AlterNet we are in favor of fewer lies, not more. And we won't lie. This article is in part an appeal to support us financially, to help us fight back against the recent plague of lies. More about that in a minute. But, if you already know you want to help us, click here.

Manjoo works for Slate, which is owned by the Washington Post Company, owner of Newsweek and a media empire that stretches from TV channels to children's schoolbooks.

Manjoo catalogued many of the lies strewn about by John McCain and running mate Sarah Palin, and by Obama. Manjoo concluded that McCain was out-lying Obama by more than 2-1, and that Obama had refrained from the big whoppers.

Hence, according to Manjoo, 'McCain has lied more often and more outrageously than Obama.'

Take McCain's ad claiming that Obama's 'one accomplishment' on education policy was to push 'legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners.' According to Manjoo, 'It's difficult to find a single true word in the whole spot.

The McCain camp's other sin is one of repetition. They keep saying things that have been proved untrue. In TV ads and at nearly every stump speech, Palin has repeated the line that she stopped the federal government's plan to build the 'bridge to nowhere,' a claim that fact-check sites and nearly every major news organization have shot down.'

And here is Manjoo's conclusion: 'This is exactly what's so puzzling about Obama's strategy -- why is he paying any attention to the fact-checkers?
So far, McCain has seen little blowback from lying.'

Manjoo also states that 51 percent of the public wrongly believes McCain's claim that Obama will raise taxes on the middle class.

I feel I have to intervene on behalf of all of us and say no to Manjoo, and to the outrageous cynicism required to suggest that Obama should just lie more as a solution. Sure, Obama can get tougher, but he doesn't have to lie to succeed. AlterNet's mission is focused on stopping the lies. And you, our audience, have shown your appreciation of our mission by devouring our material.

In the past few weeks AlterNet has had the most visitors in our 10 years! In one week more than half a million people read our series about Palin's lies. AlterNet's job is blow the whistle on falsehoods. And that is why we hope you will support AlterNet with your donation today.

AlterNet is doing great. We deliver many dozens of articles, blogs and videos every day -- all for free. But, it does cost us money. No lying here. There is no free lunch. In fact, the more people visit AlterNet, the more we have to pay for servers to handle the load. In fact, our server costs are almost $40,000 a year alone. That's just one example of the costs of running a high-traffic, independent Web site. And of course there is rent, salaries, money for writers, insurance and the normal stuff necessary for success.
To wrap it up, Manjoo actually wrote a book about lying -- or, as he calls it, 'the disappearance of facts.' The book is titled True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society.

In it, he argues that 'facts are a stock of faltering value.' And that 'media fragmentation -- the disintegration of the mass media into the many niches of the Web, cable news, and talk radio -- lets us consume news that we like and avoid news that we don't, leading people to perceive reality in a way that conforms to their long-held beliefs.'

Well yes, the avoidance of facts is a problem, as we all know. Some voters practice denial. But, that is no reason to stop presenting reality, even when it is painful. Things are not going to change until we face the truth head on.

We hope you will support us in our effort to bring more truth to this campaign.
Don Hazen is the executive editor of AlterNet.

© 2008 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/99891/

Posted by: AMIGO | September 23, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately Obama has no choice but to mudsling back at McCain and Palin's unbelievable lies and completely erroneous commercials.

This is a fight to the death, not for Obama - but for our country. If McCain and Palin win our country will completely fall apart (more than it already has).

Posted by: William Iannarelli | September 23, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

McLean, Virginia -- Really and truly, it amazes me to see the Washington Post show its lies. This paper used to be a relatively honest broker. It only takes a moment with "the Google" to find McCain's argument to privatize social security. He has been extremely disingenuous on the subject, once saying "I'm not for privatizing social security," but on the other hand his repeated statements as early as 2004 explicitly argue for taking funds OUT of the social security trust funds to support a program to permit young workers to invest in the stock market.

Lies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyBwMy27Aoc

Paul Matthews

Posted by: Paul Matthews | September 23, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

It is a shame that no one can win an election without scaring folks and distorting the truth. That said, these tactics got Bush II elected - TWICE! I hate it that the ads Obama's camp is putting out show distortion, but they must fight fire with fire. After studying all of the ads, McCain's are still more outrageous and out and out lies. I hope that people will vote for facts not fear, but it hasn't been the case recently, has it? What freaks me out are people like "Demsformccain" wo say such outlandish and untrue statements as "Don't vote Muslim." That is a sick and ridiculous remark. Thank God most people are more enlightened than to believe such BS. It's truly sad that in this day and age there is still so much racism in this country, that facts can be overidden by fear of a black man, even if he will be the only one who really gives a damn about them. Look at McCain's record. Unless you are rich or a neo-con, like Palin, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face to vote for them.

Posted by: childrenfirst | September 23, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

To anonymous and obamazero, you have printed the SOS that's been going around for a long time about Obama. You shouldn't believe everything you see and hear. Go to

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

Here, as you see is an in-depth fact check of this crap you so stongly believe, and don't you feel foolish? Or have you no shame?

Posted by: childrenfirst | September 23, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

I think America is in deep trouble. The candidates are only trying their best to see how they can win election. it is only when they are in office that they would realise the mess that Bush made in these past 8 years. America as a nation needs to come off it's high horse and admit that thier economy is protrate and needs help. The Chinese, Russian, Indian and the Arab economies are fast overshadowing the American economy and it nis indeed an alarming development. How on Earth did Bush squander the prosperity that Clinton left behind? I Americans make the mistake of electing McCain then it's good by America.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 23, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Why is it necessary to point out McCain twisting Obama's tax position? You already covered that in another article. This article is about Obama distorting McCain's view on Social Security. Stick to the topic.

The only reason I can see for you doing this is to defend Obama by saying that McCain is doing the same thing. Not really the best defense.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 22, 2008 1:16 PM
____________________________________

Reply:


What's good for the goose is good for the gander, little neocon. Don't like hearing the truth, ay

We know, we know, we know just put your guy on a pedestal and bang the other guy in the head with a hammer.

In case no one informed you; it's about fairness, the condition of being just or impartial
.


Posted by: Anonymous | September 23, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed at how many Democrats can't spell or write in coherent sentences. People, please read over your comments and use spell check for crying out loud!!!

If you want to know who got us into this financial mess look no further than good old Bill Clinton whose administration pressured both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into making sub prime loans that should never have been made just before he left office, all in the name of giving everyone (read: Blacks and other minorities with poor credit histories) a shot at the American dream. Looks like it turned out to be more of a nightmare. If you can't pay your bills and you rent a residence, what makes anyone think you can pay your mortgage even with a ridiculously low interest rate? And, for the record, McCain pushed for reform on this issue 3 years ago on the senate floor (S.190, check for yourself) but it was never passed. Don't try and blame Bush and McCain for a headache they inherited from a "Democrat" president. These bailouts were predicted 9 years ago and the predictions have proven true.

Finally what part of voluntary don't you Democrats get? Probably the "volunt" part because it goes hand in hand with volunteering (you know that is where people choose to lend a hand or take on a responsibility) which Democrats are not generally known to be good at unless it has to do with taking my hard earned money and volunteering to spread it around to other do nothing, give me a hand out, whining democrats who happen to have less than I do.

Had Clinton not pushed for the changes his administration wanted before leaving office, the stock market, more than likely, would not be in this crisis. Bush's plan would have at least allowed ALL of us a chance and more importantly a choice in where our retirement money could go. Yes, there was an element of risk involved, that is true of any venture dealing with investment, but for those who are younger who can take bigger risks because of the protracted time, the possible rewards would have been worth it and the dismal prospect of having to subsist on Social Security benefits alone would be reduced. Over the long haul, history has proven that the Stock Market pays off even with its highs and lows. I would rather my money work for me, growing and earning interest in an investment fund than being handed out to illegal aliens who never put a dime into it as the Democrats have recently allowed. At least I would have a good chance of making more money to retire on with the market than the pittance I'm expecting after most of it is given away to people who never pay into it in the first place...

McCain in 08!!!

Posted by: tiger37229 | September 23, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

the republicans and democrats are both indebt to the wealthy that influance thier decisions. so no matter who you vote for it will be a vote for plutocacy hiding behind the word damocracy.

Posted by: reality | September 23, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

For any woman to say that she is going to vote for McCain because he has a woman as his running mate has to be insane. Especially since that running mate is Sarah Palin. A woman who does not believe in a womans right to an abortion even for rape or incest. Even if it were to save the life of the mother if the child she was carrying had serious health defects.

She would ban the teaching of sex education in schools. She also wants to decide what books a library should carry. This woman has touted repeatedly her opposition to the Bridge to no where, yet it was because of the outcry of the rest of the nation that this bridge was stopped. But she did not give back the money that she got for it.

She promised an open government in Alaska, yet has refused to release e mails about an investigation in to Trooper Gate, a personal vendetta she has against her ex brother in law which has been going on since she was the mayor. Cross her and you could be out of job, as so many have found.

We should also ask what part her husband ( the dude) is going to play if she and McCain get elected. Seems he is involved in a lot of the working of the Alaska government, even though he is not an employee.
We have just had eight years of a secret run government, do you really want another four to eight years? Get real.

Posted by: Jean. | September 23, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Would someone please show me a 30-year period where the Dow Jones or Standard and Poor indexes UNDERPERFORMED the return we now get on our Social Security investment (which is approximately 15% of our income EACH YEAR)? The fact is, despite corrections and "crashes" (we haven't seen a real crash since '29), those of us approaching retirement age in the next 10-15 years would have been MUCH better off being able to invest that 12% in the stock market than we are now. Even if someone had retired the day before Monday's market shift, they'd still be much better off. Democrats are quick to point to Republicans and chastise them for "the politics of fear" but they engage in the same thing - "you're going to lose your retirement", "you'll die cold and alone", "you won't be able to get healthcare", etc... Different sides of the same coin, if you ask me.

Posted by: Tom in NC | September 23, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

mnjam:,Nate: I hope it was just an error that you posted the same thing twice, OR do you think we don't get it the first time? Maybe, just maybe, the lies are coming from both sides. I guess it's just who lies the most, get elected??????

Posted by: Anonymous | September 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Most of the above statements only prove the observation that the American people are " too stupid to be governed." Democrats for mccain would fill a small meeting room of a small hotel in a small city. If you are a "Democrat for mccain", what you really are is another angry, fearful, hate filled repuglican. Be honest.

Posted by: jim c. | September 23, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

If you read the ad carefully, it reads, "If McCain had his way...." This is a theoretical, conditional statement. It does not specifically refer to his support of the Bush compromise on privatization, which, obviously, would have excluded the current crop of senior citizens.

Given McCain's consistent opposition to entitlement programs and his strong support of privatization, I can accept Obama's inferential conclusion that "If McCain had his way..."

To muddy the waters of McCain's political private-enterprise and free-market ideology with his support of a privatization compromise by saying that he really didn't support the inclusion of the current senior citizens from that proposal is to deny McCain's overarching belief in privatization.

The only reason Bush did not include the current senior citizens from his privatization plan was that the Republican party couldn't afford any AARP hostile reaction that including them would have had on the elections...

If Bush really had "had his way...", all of the potential social security beneficiaries would have been included in his privatization plan...

C'mon "fact checkers," this is casuistry you're doing...bean counting...when the larger issue of privatization, the issue Obama was trying to get at, is far more truthful...

Posted by: johntmarohn | September 23, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

If you read the ad carefully, it reads, "If McCain had his way...." This is a theoretical, conditional statement. It does not specifically refer to his support of the Bush compromise on privatization, which, obviously, would have excluded the current crop of senior citizens.

Given McCain's consistent opposition to entitlement programs and his strong support of privatization, I can accept Obama's inferential conclusion that "If McCain had his way..."

To muddy the waters of McCain's political private-enterprise and free-market ideology with his support of a privatization compromise by saying that he really didn't support the inclusion of the current senior citizens from that proposal is to deny McCain's overarching belief in privatization.

The only reason Bush did not include the current senior citizens from his privatization plan was that the Republican party couldn't afford any AARP hostile reaction that including them would have had on the elections...

If Bush really had "had his way...", all of the potential social security beneficiaries would have been included in his privatization plan...

C'mon "fact checkers," this is casuistry you're doing...bean counting...when the larger issue of privatization, the issue Obama was trying to get at, is far more truthful...

Posted by: johntmarohn | September 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Obama IS Correct the Bush plan and the McCain plan would would drain the best plan this government has ever done.
Remember this is not a give away plan this something that the people have worked for.
The only way to correct things would be to put ALL GOVERNMENT Employees on Social Security.
If the Congress and the President and his cabinet had the same retirerment as everyone else this system would never be robbed and it would be fixed over night.
We the People need to demand this.

Posted by: Charles Lopez | September 23, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

The point IS. Privatization would be very risky! IF we had privatization now we would be facing a present catastrophic crisis with Social Security, and certainly not a reliable, secure investment. Individual investing is not a wise way to go given most people's knowledge of managing money.Obama is right.

Posted by: bluegirl | September 23, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Of course John McCain would put all of our Social Security funds at risk. Perhaps the issue Obama raises is not factually correct, but then nitpicking his point would be an "elitist" tactic wouldn't it. The American people are really not idiots, we can see what Republican reign(including McCain/Bush) has done to the banking industry, the oil/commodities market, our deficit, Katrina and of course $Billions wasted on Iraq contractors. We know Obama is right about what would happen to SS funds if McCain got in office. McCain, more of the same, except worse.

M Chinn, Jacksonville Beach, FL

Posted by: M Chinn | September 23, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

If these politicians are so worried about our elderly having social security benefits then why aren't they demanding or using their political pull or their law degrees to hold the people accountable who are abusing the system. The people who have multiple social security numbers, who utilize those numbers to obtain benefits from government subsidized programs to workplace benefits? For those of us who do are duty and report these abuses then get persecuted for our efforts, one would wonder why should you even bother.

Posted by: Jodie Lee | September 24, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

I agree that Obama should have phrased this differently, but the fact remains that McCain bought into the Bush plan that would privatize part of the social security program. The problem for the Obama camp is (and has been) how to simplify statements. Obama is very careful to examine all sides of an issue, but the public doesn't understand nuances. So many of the McCain ads have been repeated lies (mostly what Palin has/hasn't supported) that to publish the Obama mis-statement without also mentioning the McCain outright lies would have been irresponsible.

Posted by: Eleanor - South Carolina | September 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Bonus Quote of the Day
"When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed. He said, 'look, here's what happened.'"

-- Sen. Joe Biden, in an interview with CBS News.

Of course, as Reason points out, Roosevelt wasn't president in 1929 and televisions were still experimental.

Posted by: Helen | September 24, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

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