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Posted at 8:12 PM ET, 10/15/2008

Final Presidential Debate Fact Check

By Michael Dobbs


Schools
10:44p.m.
Obama claimed that he doubled the number of charter schools in Illinois. This is incorrect. When Obama was a state senator, he was a co-sponsor and key player on a bill that doubled the number of charter schools in Chicago, from 15 to 30. Generally, when Obama makes this point, he correctly notes that the bill affected Chicago, but in this case he wrongly expanded his achievement to the entire state.
--Glenn Kessler


Ads
10:42 p.m.
Obama was wrong to state that "100 percent" of McCain TV ads have been negative. According to a survey by the Wisconsin Advertising Project at the University of Wisconsin, 73 percent of the ads McCain has aired since the start of the campaign have been negative while 61 percent of Obama's ads have been negative. According to a Nielsen survey, both candidates had roughly similar numbers of negative ads beteen June 3, when the primaries ended and September 7. During that period, the McCain campaign ran 76,192 negative ads against Obama while the Obama campaign ran 75,246 negative ads against McCain.

It's possible Obama was referring to recent ads aired by McCain. The Wisconsin Advertising project reported that "nearly 100 percent" of McCain ads between September 28-October 4 were negative.
--Michael Dobbs


Abortion
10:34 p.m.
Obama slightly overstated the shift in this year's Democratic platform on abortion, saying that this year's platform put more of an emphasis on reducing the number of abortions even as it upheld the right to choose one. The truth is, people in both the anti-abortion and pro-abortion rights camps of the Democratic Party hailed the new platform language, arguing that it had swung further their way.

Here is the new plank:
The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v Wade and a woman's right to choose a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay, and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.The Democratic Party also strongly supports access to affordable family planning services and comprehensive age-appropriate sex education which empower people to make informed choices and live healthy lives. We also recognize that such health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. The Democratic Party also strongly supports a woman's decision to have a child by ensuring access to and availability of programs for pre and post natal health care, parenting skills, income support, and caring adoption programs.

Here is the previous plank:
Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman's right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican efforts to undermine that right. At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

Pro-Democratic religious leaders praised the new platform for its language about supporting women who choose to carry to term. But they also said they wished the language had gone further in their direction -- they said they would have liked to see language describing abortion as an issue of "conscience," and they did not like the reference to the "need" for abortions. At the same time, leaders of pro-abortion rights group claimed victory of their own, in the elimination of the language about keeping abortions "rare," which they had for years been uncomfortable with.
--Alec MacGillis


Taxes
10:23 p.m.
Obama reprised his misleading allegation that McCain would impose taxes for the first time on peoples' health care plans. It's true that McCain would eliminate the current tax preference for employer-provided health care: Right now employees don't pay taxes on the value of health insurance they receive from their employer, while most individuals buying insurance on their own do not get such a break.

McCain would scrap the system in favor of a plan that would give indivuduals a $2500 tax credit to buy insurance and families $5000.The Lewin Group, an independent consulting firm, concluded last week that under the McCain plan, families will save an average of $1,411 per year because the tax credit will generally be larger than the income taxes paid on employer sponsored benefits.
--Michael Abramowitz


Joe the Plumber
10:08 p.m.
McCain was wrong to state that small businessman "Joe the Plumber" would end up paying a fine if he refused to provide his workers with health insurance. Under the Obama plan, small businesses are specifically exempted from a requirement imposed on large companies that they contribute to a national health fund if they fail to make "a meaningful contribution" to their employees' health care costs.
--Michael Dobbs


ACORN
10:07 p.m.
McCain said that ACORN, the large anti-poverty and affordable housing organization, is perpetrating one of the greatest voter frauds in the history of the country.

This is greatly overstating the allegations that have been brought against the group in recent weeks. Nearly all of the handful of investigations that are now underway around the country involve charges that ACORN workers submitted fraudulent registration forms to election officials. Some of the forms were obviously fraudulent -- one for "Mickey Mouse," others with the names of the Dallas Cowboys. But there is a difference between submitting bogus forms and actual voter fraud. It is not voter fraud until someone shows up at the polls pretending to be Tony Romo or Mickey Mouse and tries to vote. And there is no evidence yet of a wholesale push to send people to the polls under bogus names. At this point, the primary target of the fraudulent registrations has been ACORN itself, which is being tricked by workers into paying them for bogus forms. ACORN has itself reported some of the bogus forms after filing them and is cooperating with investigators, since in some states it is required by law to submit all forms that it receives from workers instead of screening them itself.

That is not to say that the bogus forms are totally harmless -- they bog down election officials who are now struggling to process hundreds of thousands of legitimate forms. In that regard, the bogus forms may be indirectly hurting Obama, who is counting on the processing of the hundreds of thousands of new voter registrations that his own campaign workers has drummed up. But there is no evidence at all of the massive attempt to destroy the 'fabric' of American democracy that McCain describes.
--Alec MacGillis


Taxes
9:58 p.m.
John McCain made two assertions on corporate taxes, one that small businesses pay 50 percent of the taxes and the other that U.S. corporations are among the highest taxed in the world. Both are wrong.

All corporate income taxes--including giant corporations and the smallest of businesses--account for only about 14 percent of federal revenues raised in the year, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Most federal taxes are paid by individuals, while fees and other taxes make up the rest.

While the official corporate tax is high, compared to other countries, there are so many loopholes in the code that many companies pay little or no taxes. The General Accounting Office reported recently that more than half of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes during the boom years of the late 1990s, and those that did were able to shelter much of their income, generally by claiming deductions and credits.

The GAO report showed that 61 percent of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1996 through 2000, a period of rapid economic growth and rising corporate profits.

An estimated 94 percent of U.S. corporations reported tax liabilities amounting to less than 5 percent of their total income in 2000. Indeed, small corporations were more likely to avoid taxation than large ones, the GAO said.
--Glenn Kessler


Iraq
9:56 p.m.
McCain just mispoke in accusing Democratic running mate of wanting to divide Iraq into "three countries." Biden did propose a plan in 2006 to decentralize power in Iraq by giving control of a major region each to the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis. But his plan would maintain Iraq as a single country.
--Michael Abramowitz


Bill Ayers
9:54 p.m.
McCain exaggerated the closeness of the relationship between Obama and former Weather Underground founder Bill Ayers in claiming that his rival had "launched his political career" in Ayers' living room. It is true that Obama attended a coffee meeting at Ayers' home after he announced his intention to run for the state senate in September 1995. But according to Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times, who has tracked Obama's political career closely, the Ayers' event was only one of a series of coffees in the Hyde Park community where he lived. The kickoff for Obama's Senate run came at a meeting in the Hyde Park Ramada Inn on Sept. 19, 1995.
--Michael Dobbs


Teacher Pay and Clean Coal
9:52 p.m.
Obama gave a list of issues where he has differed with members of his own party and Democratic-leaning interests: on tort reform, on charter schools and teacher pay, and on "clean coal" technology. But on the latter two of these issues he somewhat overstated the extent of his break with his party.

Obama did vote in 2005 for the Class Action Fairness Act, which raised the bar for some product liability lawsuits, was supported by business groups and was opposed by the trial lawyer bar as well as many Senate Democrats.

His break on education reform and energy has been less clear. Very early in this campaign, Obama spoke out in favor of merit pay for teachers, including in a speech to one of the national teachers' unions, and he hinted in one editorial board interview that he was not absolutely against further exploring private and parochial school vouchers. But as the campaign has progressed, Obama has put much less of an emphasis on reform ideas that rankle the teacher unions, and has instead talked about raising teacher pay across the board, increasing education funding generally and reforming the No Child Left Behind law so that it puts less focus on standardized tests.

Obama did upset many environmentalists in 2005 when he came out for huge subsidies for technology to liquefy coal for transportation fuel, which would boost southern Illinois' coal industry. Environmentalists noted that liquefied coal would produce even greater carbon dioxide emissions than crude oil and gasoline does, and that the technology would require massive subsidies to be usable. Obama backed off the idea quite quickly in the face of this opposition. Instead, he has returned to advocating for further research on "clean coal" -- finding ways to capture and store carbon dioxide emissions at coal-fired power plants. Many environmentalists and energy experts say this technology is a long way from being realized. But in speaking in support of this research Obama is very much on the same page with most Democrats and even some environmentalists.
--Alec MacGillis


Taxes
9:40 p.m.
McCain just recyled a frequent claim, that Obama has voted to raise taxes on people making $42,000 a year. It's based on Obama's vote this year in support of a non-binding Democratic budget resolution that would allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2011 and 2013.

Independent analysts have asserted this claim is misleading since the resolution did not actually call for raising taxes, but set budgetary targets based on the premise that the tax cuts would expire. Obama has separately promised that he would extend the Bush tax cuts for any family making less than $250,000.
--Michael Abramowitz


Earmarks
9:30 p.m.
As in the last debate, McCain again raised the $3 million earmark for an "overhead projector" in a Chicago planetarium. "Overhead projector" conjures up the image of one of those pieces of equipment that high school science teachers roll out for their students. The Adler Planetarium in Chicago draws more than 400,000 visitors a year and is regarded as one of the principal scientific education centers in the country. The new projector will replace a 40-year old model that projects 4,500 stars on a 360-degree planetarium dome.
--Michael Dobbs


Joe the Plumber
9:19 p.m.
John McCain raised the story of "Joe the Plumber" who ran into Barack Obama at a political rally in Toledo, Ohio, earlier this week. He depicted the plumber as an average American who will end up paying more taxes under the Obama plan. In fact, the plumber told Obama that he had plans to buy a company that would make more than $250,000 a year. Obama has conceded that his proposal to phase out the Bush tax cuts for high-income groups will lead to higher taxes for people making more than $250,000 a year. Obama told the plumber that he would face an increase in his marginal tax rate from 36 to 39 per cent, but Americans earning less than $250,000 a year would stand to gain under his proposal.
--Michael Dobbs


Please join the Fact Checker and Friends for live truth squadding of the third and final presidential debate from Hofstra University in New York. Fact Checker Michael Dobbs will be joined by diplomatic reporter Glenn Kessler, White House correspondent Michael Abramowitz, Campaign reporter Alec MacGillis, and researcher Alice Crites. The Fact Check team will analyze statements by the two candidates for accuracy and exaggeration.

Readers are invited to flag errors and misleading claims by either of the candidates by contributing to the online discussion. You can also use the "Contact the Fact Checker" tool to contact us privately with statements that you think deserve to be checked out.

The 90-minute debate will be devoted to economic issues, so expect some aggressive back-and-forth about the financial meltdown on Wall Street. Since this is a live Fact Check, we will dispense with Pinocchio awards this evening, and focus on giving you a quick guide on the truthfulness or otherwise of the candidates' claims. Join us online!

By Michael Dobbs  | October 15, 2008; 8:12 PM ET
Categories:  Barack Obama, Candidate Record, Economy, Live Fact Check, Social Issues  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: 'Jobs, Baby, Jobs'
Next: Obama Misleads on Colombia

Comments

Why bother, Dobbs? We all know you are IN THE TANK for Obama-Biden. Just admit that's who you are rooting for.

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Jake D. You are totally obsessed. You have a real problem. Please. Get some prozac and let your wife get you the help you so desperately need.

Posted by: sue | October 15, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

McCain has nothing to lose tonight. Does that make him freewheeling and loose or too over-the-top angry?

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: mpp | October 15, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

95% Has Obama not been reading his own tax plan? If I hear that "95%" come out of his mouth again..I'm going to scream.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

If I here "Joe Plumber" one more time, I'm going to scream.

Posted by: Karen | October 15, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

If Barack Obama is the next president of the United States, I will go to Brooklyn and give everybody a hug. Because they deserve it. They've been working so hard.

Posted by: Brian Anderson | October 15, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

So, Joe the plumber is out of luck because he wasn't in a position to purchase that business 5 years ago?

95% tax break LIE again.

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

The candidates should have read the fact checker.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

McCain is taking a page out of Palin's book. He just answered a question about the deficit with energy independence. If he doesn't wipe that smug look off his face, I'm going to scream!

Posted by: nadabrain | October 15, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

my eyes are rolling already....

McCain needs to read the fact checker here on the Post website...

Oh wait...that would mean he has to read the Post....

Posted by: Kim | October 15, 2008 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Smug look? I see at least two of them on my screen.

You're not very fast here, Michael.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

aw McCain you're breakin' my heart!!!!

Posted by: repudiator | October 15, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/15/obama-on-taxes/

Guess I'm going to have to do your job for you, Mike.

Posted by: Lily | October 15, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Neither of them are doing a first rate job of answering the questions as asked without prompts by the moderator.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

McCain makes me puke. He's yacking about Senator Lewis making remarks that were hurtful. Ohhh boo hoo. What a huge pair of cajones. Obama has no control over Lewis.

But what Palin has been saying isn't hurtful- and outright lies? She's trying to whip up the crowds. When I hear "Kill him," it curdles my guts. She ought to be booted in her @$$ and her carcass shipped back to the tundra. The crap about Ayers - holy cow, give it up already. It's so OLD and stupid.

McCain is in denial that he's a dirtbag and losing the battle.


Posted by: mainer | October 15, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

100% of ads are NOT negative.

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

McCain is really starting to piss me off...laughing when Obama is talking about the folks calling out to have him killed...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Factcheck.org, a nonpartisan, nonprofit resource for voters that aims to reduce confusion about topics discussed in U.S. politics, parsed Republican presidential aspirant John McCain's allegation that Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama would raise tax rates for 23 million small-business owners and concluded that it is a "false and preposterously inflated figure."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/small-business/2008/07/voter_resource_group_slams_mcc.html

Posted by: small biz | October 15, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

I guess Michael Dobbs here is only fact checking McCain?

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

When ACORN receives registration information, by *state law*, they must submit it. They *cannot* discard a registration form -- even if they think some information may be of concern. Isn't it the state's responsibility to verify this information?

Posted by: Karen | October 15, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Where are the facts to check? This has descended into rightist mud wrestling.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Why doesn't John McCain wear a American Flag lapel pin?

Posted by: Silvia A. | October 15, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Overhead projector or advanced planetarium projector, that's semantics. Its still pork barrel, and thats the point. How is that fact checking?

Posted by: Jesstyr | October 15, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

McCain is lying out of his teeth.
Just listen to him. He doesn't want to speak on issues because he lost

Posted by: McCain's not trustworthy | October 15, 2008 9:42 PM | Report abuse

McCain is lying out of his teeth.
Just listen to him. He doesn't want to speak on issues because he lost

Posted by: McCain's not trustworthy | October 15, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

McCain claimed that Obama's 'political carreer' was launched in Ayer's living room.

Factcheck.org investigated this last week:

"The same year the two men met through the Annenberg Challenge, Ayers hosted a meet-and-greet coffee for Obama, who was running for state Senate and who lived three blocks away from him."

Already running.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Good question re whose running mate is better for the position. hahahaha. Biden has a brain - how about we start there.

Palin a role model for women? NOT. I'm insulted. The brain to nowhere. Now McCain is going on about her. Breath of fresh air - this chick is as much an insider as anyone in DC.

Obama is being gracious about her. How can he keep a straight face??? I give him credit.

Posted by: mainer | October 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Did Palin give bridge money back?

Posted by: Bridge Money? | October 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Anon- Any statement either makes should be checked against known facts.

If you need help recognizing what facts are, check here: http://plus.aol.com/aol/dictionary?query=fact&flv=1&icid=rbox_reference_tools.M

I just heard McCain try the $42,000 line. That's wrong, too.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

So Jess, I guess you don't want kids to learn about science because they can't go to the planetarium because they couldn't replace their 40 year old projector because someone thought the funds were too much "pork"?

Puhlease...if it was the planetarium you were taking your kids to, I bet you'd be calling for them to get the projector fixed ASAP...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

I just hope Palin pays her back taxes.

Posted by: Per Diem | October 15, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

How about a fact check on the claim that Barack Obama has spent more money on negative advertisements than any other presidential candidate?

Or a fact check on the claim that Obama committed to public financing and/or to sit down with McCain to work out an agreement on public financing, but then opted not to?

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Ya McCain just lost my vote

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain likes to defend the Iraq war out of the need to remove Saddam Hussein. The United States supported Saddam before they were against him. Twenty years ago, we supported Saddam--apparently we didn't know what a monster he would be--now he had to be removed.

Posted by: Louis | October 15, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Fact check ----McCain sign biggest bill with pork in it and then claims credit for getting bill sign.

Posted by: 700 Billion plus pork | October 15, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Asking the Feds for money to keep an educational institution of international repute running on modern equipment (a major piece of scientific hardware, not 'an overhead projector' that you could go down to Office Depot and buy for $59.99) is one thing.

Continuing to call it an 'overhead projector' is about as honest as calling a Navy carrier 'a boat'.

You would think that a former pilot would understand the difference.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

A while ago, did I hear McCain say that John Kennedy had agreed to town hall debates with Barry Goldwater before he was asassinated? In November 1963? Maybe I imagined this..

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain is digging himself in deeper, by drifting back to personal attacks.

Posted by: Louis | October 15, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

@mainer - if someone accuses me of being racist, you can rest assured that I would aggressively seek an apology from that person as well. For people who are not racist and who consistently try in their daily lives to ensure that all people are treated equally, it is EXTREMELY offensive to have an incinuation that suggests otherwise.

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Louis, you're right about that one. I don't know what the hell they were thinking at the end of that Gulf war. I was only 6 at the time, but I guess I enjoy reading history more than Obama does.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

@mainer - if someone accuses me of being racist, you can rest assured that I would aggressively seek an apology from that person as well. For people who are not racist and who consistently try in their daily lives to ensure that all people are treated equally, it is EXTREMELY offensive to have an incinuation that suggests otherwise.

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

A debate over campaign ethics--sounds like something I'd see on Saturday Night Live. It'd bee funny if it wasn't for real.

Posted by: Louis | October 15, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

jess tyr:

Do you even know what Obama and the city of Chicago wanted the money for? Do you really think it was for an "overhead projector?" Maybe you should just vote McCain. Loser.

Posted by: ` | October 15, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Do we need to drill offshore when we already send our petroleum products to points beyond our borders?

June 16, 2008 Presidential Candidate John McCain reverses previous position calls for Offshore Drilling.

June 18, 2008 Florida Gov. Charlie Crist reverses position, supports drilling off the shores of Florida.

July 3, 2008 Analysis of EIA Energy Outlook 2008 reveals: A record 1.6 million barrels per day in U.S. refined petroleum products exported to Mexico, Canada, Chile,
Singapore and Brazil – up 33% from 2007. White House reply to analysis:
Forbidding U.S. petroleum exports reduces incentive for domestic production.

Posted by: Jacket2011 | October 15, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Why exactly do taxpayers across the country have to pay for a new projector at the Adler planetarium?

Posted by: Peasweet | October 15, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

"...wants to sit down with Hugo Chavez..." oh please, he's desperate.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

fact checker - there are issues with his stance against the Colombia free trade deal.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

...here we go, Joe the Plumber again...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

100 percent of McCain's ads are negative. Just look at them. This is a fact, Jake D. You like facts, don't you?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

"A while ago, did I hear McCain say that John Kennedy had agreed to town hall debates with Barry Goldwater before he was asassinated? In November 1963? Maybe I imagined this.."

I thought it was pretty clear McCain meant Bobby Kennedy, whichever name came out.

Both of them make little slips like that. Obama just said we needed a president who would "enforce unfair trade agreements", when I am pretty sure he wanted to say 'oppose'.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Ask not if McCain will be a good president. Ask if Sarah Palin is HOT!!!

YES SHE IS.

I'm Brian Anderson And I Approve This Message.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Eeuuwwww! Watching McCain is like watching a sewer rat morph into an oozing pustule while it relentlessly spews disproven accusations that are know to be total lies (by the pustule).

Posted by: D Miner | October 15, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain's health care plan

(1) you lose your job your screwed (can't get the tax credit)

(2) Move from group to invididual plans
(A) Individual more expensive
(B) Group Plans generally can't screen
you out on basis of health history
(C) Individual Plans can discriminate
on basis of preexisting conditions

Posted by: Louis | October 15, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Check my blog to see pic and video of the T-shirts that Obama supporters are wearing at Obama rallies: Sarah Palin is a c#nt!

http://mccain08-hillary2012.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-supporters-calling-sarah-palin.html

Posted by: DCfred | October 15, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Anon, you're off about the ads, dear.

http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/10/15/100-percent-negative/

Good points there, Vnend.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Joe the freaking Plumber?????

What happened to MY FRIENDS????

Posted by: d Miner | October 15, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

do you think joe the plumber and joe six pack hang out

Posted by: chris | October 15, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

rambling incoherence...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

I've spent almost every waking moment listening to BOTH candidates on all variety of news networks, researched what i don't know or believe and so far McCain is the BIGGEST liar and misleading manipulator of the facts. The only one worse than him is Lil Miss Moose Wrangler. I cannot understand for the life of me how hard is it for idiot McCain supporters to do their own homework and stop crying foul. Poor losers. If that idiot does by some miracle make it into office-GOD HELP US ALL!

Posted by: marsha d | October 15, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Transplants are a Richman's beneffit

Posted by: Ranger Phx | October 15, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

I love this!!!!! McCain is self-destructing!!!! He's rambling, making no sense, throwing in odd things here and there....OMG! He's TOO OLD TO BE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!!p.s. So am I.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

McCain's discussion of Joe the plumber is TRUE. Joe said he was in the top 5%. Your "fact check" says others will pay less in taxes. That is not fact checking. That is a rebuttal.

Posted by: Dave | October 15, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Fact Check ....Is per diem pay taxable

Posted by: Fact Check | October 15, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

And judicial decisions, records and ideological predispositions are not qualifications?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

"Strict adherence to the constitution, not legislating from the bench" = what ever I say it means.

Posted by: Louis | October 15, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Are we not his "FRIENDS" anymore????

Posted by: dMiner | October 15, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Sen. McCain keeps lying through his teeth, misrepresenting Sen. Obama's healthcare plan. It's just amazing how he can sit there and lie, lie, lie with a straight face. McCain is either a pathological liar or he's now so deaf and senile that he can understand what he's just heard.

Posted by: laSerenissima | October 15, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Marsha, there is a fundamental difference between LISTENING and HEARING.

I don't think all Obama supporters are ignorant morons, I just think they look at things from a different perspective than I do.

I'd appreciate it if you'd try to be a bit less close-minded.

Thanks

Posted by: Lily | October 15, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Obama is CLEARLY acting more presidential than McCain. He reamains calm and considerate even in the face of outrageous statements by McCain. Just donated another $250 to Obama.

McCain's position that raising taxes on those who make over $250k will cost jobs is just silly. Remember folks, we're talking about PERSONAL income tax here not business taxes. So, a business owner makes a million a year from his business will pay about $30k more in PERSONAL income tax. In order for this to affect how many people the business employs, you would have to also make the assumption that the business owner would refuse to hire 1 more person ( who, one assumes, is needd by the business ) at $30k a year just to increase his take home by that amount.

This makes NO SENSE AT ALL. The only business person who would make a decision like this is a stupid one.

By the way, I am a strong Obama supporter who will make signifcantly more than $250k.

Posted by: Nathan K | October 15, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Sen. McCain keeps lying through his teeth, misrepresenting Sen. Obama's healthcare plan. It's just amazing how he can sit there and lie, lie, lie with a straight face. McCain is either a pathological liar or he's now so deaf and senile that he can understand what he's just heard.

Posted by: laSerenissima2003 | October 15, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Fact check...Joe the Plumber lives in seattle washington.

Posted by: Joe the Plumber | October 15, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdlgiqCzch8

If you can see, McCain is an ACORN supporter too!!

Posted by: Scott | October 15, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Red meat for the base now.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Who won the presidential debate at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=3796

.

Posted by: DBlake | October 15, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

':
If the state of illinois or the city of Chicago wanted the projector, they should have paid for it. Why is it that a national problem?

Posted by: Jesstyr | October 15, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

McCain needs a plumber to clean out his sewer of a mouth.

Posted by: d Miner | October 15, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Nathan K., I eagerly await your check to me in the mail. $50k should do me just fine.

Posted by: Lisa | October 15, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Sure Lisa, I'll hire you. The Obama tax increse doesnt bother me a bit.

Posted by: Nathan K | October 15, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Scratch that, my mother says she'd like something for her retirement. Add another $75k to the envelope. She's not got the best health, and she says she doesn't want to be stuck in the government funded hospitals.

Posted by: Lisa | October 15, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Great! I'm only available 25 hours a week, though.

Posted by: Lisa | October 15, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Oboma getting ass kicked

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Debate's almost over McSame, last chance to spew some venomous lies about Obama. Does he PAL AROUND WITH TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, you are just lying yet again.

Back to your rat-hole.

Posted by: d Miner | October 15, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Jess:

In the first place, a 3 million dollar earmark is nothing - McCain has had BILLIONS in ermarks, no matter what he has said.

The "overhead projector" happens to be the entire sound/visal system that the planetarium has been using for more than 40 years. It no longer works. There's new, amazing technonology out there, and this particular planetarium is visited by millions of school children every year.

This is a small example of how very little money, comparatively, can help in the education and excitement for science of young people, at a time when we are so woefully behind other countries in this area. That's why it's a national problem.

More to the point: does everyone see McCain disintegrating? Wow. WHAT a LOSER. WHAT A YESTERDAY GUY.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

McCain looked pretty nervous early on, but he has obviously taken the offensive on this debate. “Senator Obama, I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush you should have run 4 years ago” That line was perfect and will become a highlight of this debate. Don't underestimate McCain, this is the best that I've seen him.

Posted by: Jack Sharkey | October 15, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

McCaine is Bush's buttplug.

Posted by: Joe the Plumber | October 15, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

what is the cut-off for "small" business? Maybe Joe the plumber would employ too many. As for "common ground" with Obama on abortion; NEVER!

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

I demand to see an interview with this "Joe the Plumber". He's the official debate mascot this time around.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Obama wasn't elected to the Senate until 2004. Breyer's nomination took place 10 years prior. McCain was just plain wrong when he said that Obama didn't vote for Breyer.

Posted by: E. | October 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

I'm starting to see the point of Ronald Reagan. The people are royally sick of McCain, and can't bear the thought of hearing him ramble on for four years. He doesn't wear well, and the fact that he has such difficulty with the truth is almost irrelevant. You can see why he's losing. The other guy is like James Bond. It must be infuriating to debate him, because the medium is visual. Like Reagan, whose people didn't care about the stories as long as the pictures were good.

Posted by: cresttwo | October 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

I'm not George Bush. I knew George Bush. I hugged him and French kissed him. I supported his sack like a good jock. I'm no George Bush. I'm his butler.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

McCain made a snide remark about the women's health provision in abortion cases, saying that that provision has been stretched in every possible way and is not important. Not true. Any legislation that limits abortion WITHOUT any consideration to women's health is not only immoral and dangerous but illegal.

Posted by: motherforobama | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

How about getting rid of a great deal of the bureaucracy in education? Let's spend the money on the kids. Let's give teachers more than a $250.00 per year tax deduction for classroom supplies. I have spent $5,000.00 (Yes, that's correct.) on equipment for my classroom in the last seven years.

I have purchased a laptop, a replacement laptop, a digital projector, and other supplies for my classroom. But I can only ask the IRS for $250.00 per year back? How come businesses get more tax breaks than those who teach the future?

Posted by: Karen | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Jack, saying this is the best you have seen McCain do isn't saying much for his previous outings....

I think he is sinking faster than the Titanic....

Posted by: Down goes McCain.... | October 15, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

McCain is a lame-o!

Posted by: d Miner | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Does McCain think that Sarah Palin's child has autism rather than Downs? He needs to talk with her sometime. It's great that a politician is finally talking about autism, but Downs Syndrome is quite different from Autism--as anyone with children with either of those conditions will readily tell you.

Posted by: Lisa | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Thank heaven it's ending.

Posted by: Jim | October 15, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

This blog is a joke - it looks like the DNC war room blog rather than a "fact check."

Posted by: Tim | October 15, 2008 10:29 PM | Report abuse

"If the state of illinois or the city of Chicago wanted the projector, they should have paid for it. Why is it that a national problem?"

It is wanted by the Board of the Alder Planetarium, a public educational charity. And they accept donations toward it on their web page.

The charity's members also asked their elected representatives, including their Senators, to see if funds could be found for it.

If you ask a hammer how to address a problem, the answer is hit something with it. If you ask a US Senator to help find funding for your project, you are going to get (if they agree and are successful) federal funds.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous:
Look, I'm the first to say that earmarks arent the major political issue facing our country, but that doesnt change the fact that my initial concern was the "fact checking". If the fact checking is all one-sided, as this is, thats a problem.

On the other note - I'm all for getting new A/V equipment for the planterium, but the state or local government should pay for it. I feel the same way about my local community - we need to be accountable for our own problems, we have enough national issues.

Posted by: Jesstyr | October 15, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

McCain has referenced Sarah Palin's child as being autistic a few times in this debate. I thought the baby has Down Syndrome. Down Syndrome and autism are not synonymous.

Posted by: Durham, NC | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Tim,

Pretty much everything that has been fact checked above has also been fact checked by factcheck.org....you can go over there if you want a second opinion....

Posted by: McCain goes down.... | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Here's something odd. Alec MacGillis completely forgot to point out that BHO lied about his ACORN ties:

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/008146.html

Michael Dobbs is relying on an extremely fine point: over whether BHO launched his career in Bill Ayer's house, or whether that was merely one of the places. One of those who was there disagrees with Michael Dobbs; he said that was where BHO launched his career.

There's more on BHO's relationship Ayers here:

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/008147.html

Note that BHO was 19 years old when the Minutemen killed three people. Note also his self-admitted involvement with the anti-apartheid movement, something that was also associated with the Weathermen. The idea that BHO didn't know about Ayers' past is beyond ludicrous. Apparently BHO thinks his followers are stupid.

Posted by: 24AheadDotCom | October 15, 2008 10:31 PM | Report abuse

The new chancellor of D.C. schools supports charters, hates five-year plans, and recently fired the principal at her own children's school. Will she make it through a second year unscathed

Posted by: Rhee support charter | October 15, 2008 10:32 PM | Report abuse

I think McCain got off to a good start with his plumber, but soon lost ground as he beat it to death. And he seemed to lose it again on trying to keep to character defamation. Overall, my guess is that Obama didn't lose any ground to McCain in the debate.

I don't know if this is a reaction to the debate or the falling stock market, but McCain has today lost more than 5 points on Intrade (now 15.8) and Obama has risen by more than 4 points (now 84.6).

Posted by: Miriam | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Mother, McCain is not 100% against abortion. He thinks that it should be only legal under certain circumstances. But I don't think taxpayers should be required to pay for a woman's mistake. Rape (of which I have experienced)/ Life endangerment is a different story.

Karen, regardless of who wins the election, I would look into finding a local business that would be willing to sponsor your classroom and supply some/all of the things you need for your students.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Sarah,

I would love to do that, but it is prohibited locally.

Posted by: Karen | October 15, 2008 10:35 PM | Report abuse

FYI: It was all over the Wash Post, USA Today, etc about the *failure* of the DC voucher program. Google it and see. For you lazy folks, the voucher program has failed two years in a row to increase standardized test scores in the children enrolled versus the children in the public schools

Posted by: Jenn | October 15, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Karen, I'm sorry to hear that. It has been quite helpful in the schools around here.

Posted by: Sarah | October 15, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Correction: "Weathermen", not "Minutemen".

And, one of the people who was at the kaffeeklatsch chez Ayers, Dr. Quentin Young, said it was the 'political coming-out party for Obama':

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/obama.ayers/index.html

Posted by: 24AheadDotCom | October 15, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

interesting that they are talking with a group of 6 "undecided voters" in Leesburg...and of those 6, one supported McCain and three supported Obama while 2 were undecided about the economy. Two say they know of someone who won't vote for Obama because of race, and all six said they know of someone who wont vote for McCain because of Palin.

Posted by: NBC in Leesburg | October 15, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't aware that Sarah Palin had an Autistic child.

RE: "At the same time, leaders of pro-abortion rights group claimed victory of their own, in the elimination of the language about keeping abortions "rare," which they had for years been uncomfortable with."

No one is "pro-abortion!" Pro-choice and anti-choice, that's it.

Posted by: MzFitz | October 15, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm "pro-choice", but i still think its important to acknowledge:
"pro-choice" is just as "anti-life" as "pro-life" is "anti-choice".

These are all political tools kicked up to push positions, they are not honest reflections of a persons position on a subject.

Posted by: gh';v | October 15, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Check THESE facts, Fact Checker

Only Obama clung to a ranting, racist antisemite, until he was sure he had the ranting, racist, antisemite vote in his pocket.

Only Obamakhan allowed a ranting, racist, antisemite to preach to his children (!)

Only Obamakhan's wife wrote a ranting, racist thesis.

This is the most tragic election in my 60 yr lifespan. My choice is for either the Coathanger Twins or Mr. Racist.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing reading the comments here. People calling McCain a "buttplug," "old man," "too old to be president" etc.

Let me get this straight - discrimination based on age is apparently ok with the democratic voters, but if someone makes a comment such as "that guy," then he is a racist pig and shouldn't be president.

It is clear reading this blog that some of the citizens of this country that are supporting Obama are childish, discriminating people. I pray, should Obama win, that the collection of Obama supporters posting here are NOT representative of the majority of his supporters. Because if this is the attitude that him and his followers take, then our country will just go further in the hole.

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

When I was teaching I received health care insurance as a benefit and McCain's plan would definitely have increased my tax burden. As a retiree, even in our group health plan, I'm paying $6,000 a year for my plan. Again, I would lose money with McCain's health plan, if i would only receive a $2500 tax credit. I think Michael A.'s comments are confusing and incorrect.
In the long run, we simply need a national health insurance plan.

Posted by: Phyllis | October 15, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

why has it not been mentioned that sen. mccain stated tonight, appro. 40 min. into the debate, that saddam hussein was removed to avoid impairing america's oil supply?

Posted by: mds | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous:
I can wholeheartedly agree with you on one thing - what a horrible set of choices we have. Any chance of a 3rd candidate sneaking on to the ballot who has experience and can string together complete sentences?

Posted by: Jesstyr | October 15, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

mds:
he was referring to the first Iraq War at the time, and thats a fairly honest answer.

Posted by: Jesstyr | October 15, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Maybe 100% of McCain's ads in the past few weeks have been negative. But that's not what Obama said. Since he's outspending McCain, it is true that Obama has MORE negatives ads out recently. I noticed he didn't counter the TRUTH about breaking his word to sit down with McCain and aggressively pursue an agreement on public financing.

McCain wins this debate on points again.

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 10:53 PM | Report abuse

On the healthcare issue. McCain is really out of touch on the cost of the annual health insurance premium. I own a small business and the premium for just my family alone is $1,900 a month. That is nearly $23K a year. $5,000 dollars is just a drop in the bucket for what families pay in annual premiums. One woman on our policy who is over the age of 50 has a premium of over $900.00. So I don't know where he gets that the average premium is $5,800 a year.

On the other end, I pay half of my employees monthly premium. Under McCain's plan my employees will have to pay taxes on the portion of their healthcare that I pay. So on a family plan, I have employees who will have to pay taxes on the roughly $11,000 benefit that I give my employee.

Posted by: Terri | October 15, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

The 100% negative claim regarding McCain's ads appears to relate to his most recent advertising, not the extended time period that Dobbs resorts to. A press release from the very organization that Dobbs cites, the Wisconsin Advertising Project, states "During the week of September 28-October 4, nearly 100 percent of the McCain campaign’s advertisements were negative. During the same period, 34 percent of the Obama campaign’s ads were negative." http://wiscadproject.wisc.edu/wiscads_release_100808.pdf

Posted by: sj | October 15, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Michael - my health care plan costs over $800 a month - which is more than $10,000 a year, and I'm a single woman with Crohns. McCain's plan would bankrupt me.

Also, with regard to the percentage of negative ads, Obama's statistic was with regard to current ads running, not all ads run by the campaigns cumulatively. Several news outlets reported that 100% statistic for the past week.

Posted by: LGL | October 15, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, mistakenly posted anonymously.

Check THESE facts, Fact Checker

Only Obama clung to a ranting, racist antisemite, until he was sure he had the ranting, racist, antisemite vote in his pocket.

Only Obamakhan allowed a ranting, racist, antisemite to preach to his children (!)

Only Obamakhan's wife wrote a ranting, racist thesis.

This is the most tragic election in my 60 yr lifespan. My choice is for either the Coathanger Twins or Mr. Racist.

Posted by: Lynn | October 15, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Jesstyr asked, regarding the Alder Planetarium earmark that Sen. McCain keeps calling an 'overhead projector', deliberately and repeatedly using a misleading term:

"Why is it that a national problem?"

It is a national problem because of how we have allowed our elected officials to come to define their job: to do enough for their constituents to get re-elected.

It is a national problem because 'What is in it for me?' has become the normal answer when someone asks for help with something (regardless of what it is.)

It is a national problem because the culture that allowed one of the founders of Sears and Roebuck to build the planetarium as a way of giving some of what he had made back to the people he lived with has gone away. As we can see from the Ponzi scheme that the sub-prime mortgage>mortgage back securities debacle led to and the global financial melt down that we are in, the national problem is *greed*.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Michael Dobbs posted:

"According to a Nielsen survey, both candidates had roughly similar numbers of negative ads beteen June 3, when the primaries ended and September 7."

That is nice, but how about in the last 3 weeks? What has been the ratio of positive vs negative ads for both campaigns? (By week, if possible.)

September 7th was an eternity ago as far as the public perception of the issues of this campaign.

Posted by: Vnend | October 15, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Both candidates said that they could reduce dependence oil by increasing domestic production of oil and increasing nuclear, natural gas, wind, solar and tidal power.

McCain especially emphasized nuclear power as an alternative.

The problem with these statements is that except for increasing domestic oil production (which there is simply not enough of to put a large dent in oil imports or the price of a barrel of oil) is that they all are ELECTRICAL sources of energy. Imported oil goes largely towards transportation energy and only makes up about 1% of our supply of electricity. Coal and natural gas, which our country has plenty of and does not import at all makes up over 50% of our electricity generation.

Unfortunately, the only way to reduce our independence on foreign oil would be to switch to electrical cars (or hybrids which are primarily electric such as the Chevy Volt which is to be released in the near future) or significantly improve fuel efficiency of cars, which at least Obama did mention, but not initially.

Posted by: Eric | October 15, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Kevin:
I repeat: McCain is just too old to be doing this, and he showed it tonight. Now you can get on yout high horse all you want. I am an older person, and I know what I'm talking about. It isn't discrimination. It's just a fact of the aging process. Furthermore, Obama represents the future, where we all need to go, and McCain represents the past.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

OMG! Dobbs actually got one right about Obama's ads. I'm speechless.

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

in the midst of wingnut insanity,
two great factchecks by E and Scott:
Obama didn't vote for Breyer because he wasn't in the Senate.
AND
MCCAIN LOVES ACORN
FOLLOW THE YOUTUBE LINK

I only wish Obama had used it, but I guess he didn't have to.
SORRY WINGNUTS, THE LOUD MINORITY WILL HAVE NO INFLUENCE NO MORE!

Posted by: SPENCER | October 15, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

100% of ads are NOT negative.

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 9:34 PM
*************************************************

It's a FACT. Over the last several weeks, 100% of McCain's ads have been negative. McCain told a bald faced lie when he denied that.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

@Anonymous-
You can have that view, but if so, you can't fault anyone else if they say that Obama is "too black" to be president.

Discrimination on the basis of age is the same as discrimination on the basis of race.

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

I have to say that you are pathetic. I would be embarrased by your assesment

Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Discrimination on the basis of age is the same as discrimination on the basis of race.

...just want to follow up on this point lest it be misinterpreted - both are despicable in my mind, and there isn't room for either one. And I'm not trying to say that the efforts that African Americans had to go through are "the same" as the efforts that old people have had to go through...

my point is in our current society, both are equally ILLEGAL when it comes to employment. And to be fair, the presidential campaign and election is the World's Biggest Job Interview!

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

@Anonymous-
I'm undecided...actually leaning Obama, but both are severly unqualified to be president in my opinion, so once again, I'm forced to choose between the lesser of 2 evils. I'm just making my own commentary on what I see here, and I am not in the least impressed with the Obama supporters posting here.

Posted by: Kevin | October 15, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

FYI: It was all over the Wash Post, USA Today, etc about the *failure* of the DC voucher program. Google it and see. For you lazy folks, the voucher program has failed two years in a row to increase standardized test scores in the children enrolled versus the children in the public schools

Posted by: Jenn | October 15, 2008 10:36 PM

Jenn,
From Scholastic.com Aug 2008 "......Rhee represents a newer and more extreme version of this approach. She is among the first education entrepreneurs from a large community of nonprofit teacher recruiting firms and charter-school organizations to lead a school system.

Put simply, the education entrepreneurs’ philosophy is that education is a civil right; children’s interests should be placed above adults’ interests; good teachers and good schools—not a child’s family background—are the biggest factors in a child’s achievement; and, until now, the best way to improve districts is from the outside in. A willingness to challenge the status quo is part of this. So is supporting new and different approaches. Like others in the movement, Rhee supports charter schools, which in D.C. enroll more than 20,000 students."

Posted by: McCain was wrong again Rhee supports charter schools | October 15, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

The moment the debate was over, I felt the debate was a draw.
McCain came out very energetic and on attack, however, I don't think he actually scored one point factually against Barack Obama.
Obama, in turn, kept an unshakeable demeanor, spoke to each issue, gave as good as he got, and continued to press the contrast on issues, not on personal criticisms.
I think both acquitted themselves well.
And, I think, since there were no major gaffes on either side, Obama will remain the frontrunner in this run down to the wire.
McCain clearly demonstrated that he would approach the thorny problems of the country from a fighting stance.
Obama clearly demonstrated that he would approach the throny problems of the country in a diagnostic stance, pointed to achieve goals.
In the end, I believe Obama won, on that basis.

Posted by: Judy-in-TX | October 15, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

I understood Obama's reference to McCain's negative ads to indicate only the last several weeks, which have been 100% negative.

McCain has not and clearly not repudiated any wrong negative attack against Obama. In fact, McCain himself has launched such negative and unfounded negative attacks.

Despite what Obama said about his tax and health care plan, McCain obviously did not listen to Obama's responses.

McCain was obviously frustrated and uncomfortable being at the debate tonight.

Posted by: EarlC | October 15, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what ads people have been watching but all the ads currently running are negative ads by McCain. Has anyone else noticed that Palin is no longer mentioned in the McCain new ads. None of the ads end with McCain/Palin anymore. All the newest ads end with a change is coming. Is McCain really as enthusiastic about his running mate as he once was?

Posted by: rkaa | October 15, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Comment that stood out the most?
How about McCain's response to the question as to whether his running mate was qualified to be president? He said, 'we will make a great team' - how was that for not answering the question, or was it an answer in an unintended way??

Posted by: Jeanne | October 15, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

The One didn't say "last few weeks"

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

As a small business owner, who falls just around the $250,000 category, how would voting for Obama encourage me to grow my business? Why would I work harder, or even as hard as I do, so that I can pay higher taxes that will be spent on people who don't work as hard? I also live in an area that has a very high cost of living and I don't think his plan takes cost of living into the equation. So can anyone tell me, how does his economic plan help ME? How does it help the new hire that now I am hesitant to hire because I don't want to pay higher taxes? I just don't see how this plan encourages growth opportunity. I find it very discouraging and feel like I would be punished for owning a business. I cashed in my 401K early to start his business taking a huge risk and now that I am in a place to begin rebuilding my retirement, I feel like I am about to have the carpet pulled out from under me for taking that risk and working so hard. I simply don't understand how this plan promotes growth in small business??? Please help me understand...

Posted by: chrissy | October 15, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Why did the Fact Checker piece make reference to "anti-abortion and pro-abortion rights camps"? This is biased wording and should be corrected.

Posted by: WordsMatter | October 16, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Note to Sarah: See Obama's six-minute conversation with Joe the plumber posted yesterday to YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

Posted by: attobuoy | October 16, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Obama told Joe the plumber that his tax rate would rise from 36% to 39% for income above $250,000.

Joe is planning to purchase a business with revenues of $270,000 to $280,000. Assuming he makes $280,000, that's $30,000 that gets the extra 3% tax. 3% of $30,000 is $900. So Joe pays $900 in additional taxes on an income of $280,000, which is 0.32% of his total income.

Posted by: attobuoy | October 16, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

In the post-debate comments on NBC, Mit Romney made what I feel was a significant error that seems to have gone unnoticed. He stated that three of the six individuals in Leesburg "switched to McCain" however all six individuals were UNDECIDED. There was no switching.

Posted by: Timo | October 16, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Chrissy - go to Obama's website and read his plan. His proposed tax increases, if I'm not mistaken, would be from 35% to 39%, which is what the tax rate was under Clinton before Bush's tax cuts, but I remember reading somewhere that capital gains won't be taxed on small businesses, and that for most small businesses - even those around the 250K mark - won't actually see an increase anyway. (I read so many sites, I can't remember where the article explaining his small business policy was. Sorry.)

Plus, if you hire new people, you will get a tax credit.

Posted by: LGL | October 16, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

How much total time did Obama get out of 90 minutes?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

This is really hard for me. I mean, I don't know what to do.

Wow.

McCain looked really - can I say this? - old and angry.

I'm not sure I trust him, and if he's, God forbid, sick or senile, who takes over?

Wow.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pull the lever for him, although I will tell everyone I did. I mean, I don't want to admit to voting Democrat, especially not for a.... A lawyyer. That's what I was going to say.

No, really.

What?

Wow.

Posted by: Jake D | October 16, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

I can't do it. Can't vote for a...

A Democrat... no, I meant "an Ivy League grad." I mean, he only got in there because he's.... uh, he was... poor. He was poor. And-

what?

OK, poor AND smart... OK, one of the smartest young men in America that year... but, wait. If he's so smart why did he turn down the big money and move to the inner city? Did he feel more at home there, with all the...

Machine politicians, that's what I meant. Chicago machine politicians, who cater to specific issues important to...

No, stop it. Important to, uh, the blue collar. And welfare queens, and pushers, and gangbangers...

What? Don't evem start... I'm just not comfortable being led by a...

Wow.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Nice try fake JakeD!
Obama sounded like he just swaggered out of the ghetto. How could he be so disrespectful to an honorable white man like McCain?

Anyone who votes for Obama might as well just give all their money to some iliterite border hopper on the street. Cause Obama is just gonna give his money to them anyway.

p.s. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA is a muslim.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Judy:

McCain didn't score one factual point?! Even Dobbs pointed out that Obama has run MORE negative ads than McCain. That's at least one point. No wonder you think Obama won.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Obama consistently addressed the topics at hand and stayed on the high road--he didn't even take the obvious bait and say that Sarah Palin is unqualified to be president. McCain rattled off his stump speech lines, evaded specific answers and sneered out the irrelevant personal attacks and trivial "gotchas" that seem to be the only thing on his mind. The US is in two wars and an economic crisis, and McCain is worried about a professor of education in Chicago endorsed by the Annenberg Foundation? What would he focus on as president? Please, America, vote for the guy who's got the big picture in mind: Obama.

Posted by: Deanna | October 16, 2008 1:00 AM | Report abuse

For the record, I already voted for McCain-Palin. And in Rensselaer County, New York: it's spelled Barack Hussein Osama.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 1:00 AM | Report abuse

Deanna:

What part of "I don't care about an old washed up terrorist" don't you understand?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

I do think that McCain meant to say that Obama voted against Justice Alito, not Breyer. Other than that, I did not hear one factual mistake from him. Using any method of formal debate scoring, McCain won again, hands down. Of course, over at MSNBC or CNN unscientific "popularity contests" Obama won. That's what this country has come to. Hopefully, most of those people don't take the time to vote.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 1:12 AM | Report abuse

How come nobody is calling Obama on his ridiculous claim that 95% will get a tax cut. Surely, Obama knows that nearly half pay little or no tax. Geez. How easy it is to pull the wool over the public's eyes.

Posted by: bill | October 16, 2008 1:15 AM | Report abuse

As a parent of a child with Down syndrome I can unequivocally state that Sarah Palin's child is not old enough for her to have much of an idea of what it is like having a special needs child. (I'm not sure why McCain keeps bringing up autism, except that maybe he groups all "special needs" people into a sort of "those poor people" type group) The Palins are only beginning to understand what they are up against. It is not until your child is going to school and you are faced with advocating for your child through the mandated yet unfunded programs Barack spoke of, that you can begin to understand. Or, when you choose to have one parent always be home to take care of that child, and you are faced with the bureaucracy of the SSI program to help make up a tiny bit of your lost income and you come to find that it is an income based program that uses 1970's economic standards to decide what you are allowed to own to qualify (a $2000 car?!) I hope the Palin's learn to enjoy their youngest child as much as their other children and I hope that they are uncomfortable with the campaign's use of their child as a talking point.

Posted by: Montana | October 16, 2008 1:15 AM | Report abuse

The projector business is a red herring. This is not a national treasure and it's replacement should not be a national expense. Chicago is the operator and charges admission which covers replacement costs. Obama's earmark (and probably the balance of the $1B that he sponsored) is just payback payola. Trained in Chicago and simply plays Chicago politics which in case you don't know is as dirty as it gets.

Posted by: WD | October 16, 2008 1:20 AM | Report abuse

Maybe it is just me. But when a debater, who I am
supposed to trust to run my country, doesn't help
me understand his policies and spends the debate
trashing the other debater........

I assume he doesn't:

1. Know the details of his policy
2. Doesn't believe in the details of his policy, or
3. Is convinced he is losing the debate, so WTH

McCain lost the debate. Obama won.

Obama/Binden 08


Posted by: Voice of Reason | October 16, 2008 1:20 AM | Report abuse

Wonder why McCain did not raise the issue of a Democratic White House and Congress. One would think that pushing for gridlock would encourage Republicans (and Independents?) to pull the party lever.

Posted by: HeadScratcher | October 16, 2008 1:33 AM | Report abuse

So everyone doing this whole "ooh public projects shouldn't require federal funding" nonsense, I would ask to do a favor. Go tell that to New York, Ohio, California, and Michigan, all states struggling currently to make ends meet.

Then maybe you could go ask Sarah Palin's home state of Alaska to lend out some of their $10 Billion surplus: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-surplus5-2008sep05,0,2756085.story

Posted by: Dave C | October 16, 2008 1:55 AM | Report abuse

And how can this be so profusely left-wing biased when the first four corrections are for Obama's statements? What do you guys smoke? Has the Republican Party really become that defensive?

Posted by: Dave C | October 16, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse

You mean the LAST four? Dobbs was simply making excuses for Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 2:06 AM | Report abuse

100% of the ads both bragg on there plans and slam the others

Posted by: DD | October 16, 2008 2:55 AM | Report abuse

McCain confused the Washington Redskins with the Dallas Cowboys....do we really want HIS finger on the button????

Posted by: AUSSIEBONES | October 16, 2008 5:26 AM | Report abuse

Ummm HEY I VOTE FOR JOE !!!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 7:18 AM | Report abuse

mpp wrote - McCain has nothing to lose tonight. Does that make him freewheeling and loose or too over-the-top angry?
---------------------------------
Yes

Posted by: ex-conservative | October 16, 2008 7:47 AM | Report abuse

"So, Joe the plumber is out of luck because he wasn't in a position to purchase that business 5 years ago?

95% tax break LIE again."

How is it a lie?

If that is a lie, then you are a 13 year old asian girl who plays chess and smokes cigars.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

"Deanna:

What part of "I don't care about an old washed up terrorist" don't you understand?"

I don't understand the part where he brings it up every chance he gets. I don't understand why his campaign is completely supported by this single point.

If he doesn't care about Ayers, why does he have Palin talk about him for two weeks straight?

Posted by: TIM | October 16, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

A word about "Joe the Plumber," first, I don't think Joe even looked at the Obama tax plan, because if he did he would have seen that if his business makes $227,000-603,000 he would pay exactly $12 in extra individual income taxes...that's right folks, a big $12! If Joe makes 250,000 he'll get a tax cut, although not as big as McCain would give him. Re small businesses: Obama has proposed giving businesses a $3,000 tax break for every new job created.

Posted by: radical_moderate | October 16, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I am really disgusted and disappointed by most of the comments here: to put ridiculous propaganda on a fact-checking page is in really bad form (you know who you are: "muslim", "terrorism" and "hussein"- writing people) I think it is also sad that we haven't gotten past our fear of muslims in this country. Hating a group of people for their religious beliefs is diametrically opposed to the core values that built this nation. People using this hateful, slanderous rhetoric are doing so much damage to this country: our equality, and especially our unity. They are the terrorists that we should really be afraid of....
Regardless of who "won" the debate, I really hope they BOTH play fair from now on so we can really see them at their best.

Posted by: Melanie | October 16, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I guess most people only care about how taxes may affect the few or even "Joe the Plumber", but the fact remains that the good of the MANY far outweighs the good of the FEW. Why should I feel bad for Joe, who's getting a 3% tax increase when Joe can afford a business that will generate more than $250,000? Joe clearly isn't in the dumps so I frankly am unable to feel sorry for him.

Posted by: Arnaldo | October 16, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I like the comment Melanie made "We haven't gotten past our Muslim fears". Give me a break Mel, look what these people do in there own countries, they kill each other over what, power. There is a lot of Muslims that would love to see America suffer and killed so don't give me this crap about fearing Muslims because their beliefs are scary. Read up on Muslims and then tell why anyone should fear their religion. God help us all if Obama wins because we will hear the middle east cheer.

Posted by: Jacko | October 16, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I live in Florida and I've had McCain callers who tried to tell me that Obama is a muslilm, a terrorist and was not born in the United States. These are calls from the McCain campaign itself in central Florida -- I finally complained to the RNC! It's disgraceful.

I'm old enough to remember the Civil Rights movement. I watched violence on TV; I remember that church bombing. That's what I've thought about when I hear this stuff coming from McCain's campaign.

I don't think Lewis overstated this. Frankly, I was surprised that McCain brought it up because what McCain has been doing *is* very dangerous. When Palin lets people yell "kill him" and "terrorist" and reporters have to be escorted in and out of her rallies by security... shouldn't McCain be doing something about that??

I voted for Bush in 2004, but I am voting for Obama this time around. I will not allow my vote to signal that I endorse this kind of behavior.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

Posted by: Florida voter | October 16, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

It concerns me how many of the Obama supporters have made comments proving that they have wrong ideas of how our tax system works. When taxable income increases to move into the next tax bracket - all of your taxable income in taxed at the higher percentage - not just the amount that put you over the line.
Also in McCain's plan (which I don't support) to tax employees for that portion of their employer paid health insurance, you won't pay that entire amount in taxes, you'll be taxed on that amount. If that portion equals $10,000, that amount will be taxed at your tax rate- perhaps 25%. So you would pay an additional $2500, then McCain's plan would give you the tax credit of $2500 for an individual. In that example - it's a wash.

VOTE how you want - but please make sure your reasoning is sound and not based on errors in arithmetic.

Posted by: Illinois Native | October 16, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Tim:

I was asking Deanna. The point is not Ayers (or ACORN, Rev. Wright, etc.), it's about Obama LYING to hide the extent of his relationships with radicals. It was one line in a stump speech, hardly the complete focus of the entire campaign. If you're so sensitive, maybe it's hitting close to home.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

All I have received in the mail is negative junk mail from the Obama campaigne which I feel once you receive something you shouldn't have to kill another tree to say it again. I would like to call Obama Mr. Hollywood because all he as done is broadcast HIS hopes and dreams while brainwashing people into thinking he's the savior of our troubling times. This guy has no idea how the government works nor how the world works, but I know he will not attack a Muslim state even if they attack us first. You watch people, he will favor both sides rather then what is best for America.

Posted by: Jacko | October 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

You're looking at the extremist Muslim factions on the other side of the world and consider them to be the standard for all Muslims? By the same token, I wouldn't want underage sexual harrassment behaviour to be a standard for all Christians around the world.

Anyways, after watching the debate, one major point that stuck in my mind was that bit about how McCain's recent campaign ads were all negative. It was interesting enough for me to actually go through all the recent ads and find that point to be true.

McCain is behind in polls and he and his party's true character is starting to show in their sore loser attitude. If McCain/Palin is elected to office, I can only imagine international relations when things don't go McCain's way.

Just for the record, I advocated Bush over Kerry in the past. Guess who I'm supporting now? Obama if you're slow and believe that Republicans only stick for Republicans.

Posted by: woahwoahjacko | October 16, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Good question re whose running mate is better for the position. hahahaha. Biden has a brain - how about we start there.

Yea, today on one of the morning shows he stated a 3 letter word....J-O-B-S.

Posted by: concerned09 | October 16, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I could be wrong on this, but Obama claimed that 70% of small businesses made less than 250,000 dollars a year. I believe it is the other way around I will do more research throughout the day, but so far this is what I'm finding. What I am finding is that 70% of small businesses make more than 250,000 a year!!!!! So by all means let’s hurt 70% of America's small business by spreading the wealth around. Talk to small business owners and ask them how Obama's plan will hurt their current business. Obama's plan is to decrease taxes on the middle class but by the time he gets done there will be no middle class!!!! As far as the national debt goes when is the last time the President of the United States had the right to spend one dime. Last time I checked he can't. So half of what these candidates are saying is things they can propose, but will not definitely happen. I realize the last 4 years have been an extremely hard time, but the point is smaller government means less money spent and more money in the hands of the people. Obama's plan would increase the size of the government in just about every sector. Obama supporters, think about who you currently work for and what affect it would have on that company. I don’t understand why you would elect the most liberal person such as Obama when the country’s economy is at its worst since the Great Depression. The sensible thing to do would be to elect the person that wants to make government smaller and spend less. If I hear another eight years of bush one more time I’m going to scream. Look up the definition of conservative, now do you consider President Bush much of a conservative or more liberal. John McCain is not George Bush!!!!!

Posted by: Devin | October 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I feel the only people voting for Obama are the African Americans, Mexicans, Muslims, DieHard Dems, and stupid people who are unpatriotic to this great country. Sen. Obama last night looked like a Muslim and if you add a beard and a turbin he would resemble the same people who behead and kill just because your not Muslim. Oh wait, they kill there own too.

Posted by: Jacko | October 16, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Mandated healthcare for "big businesses that can afford it". General Motors is BIG. They can't "afford" it.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Illinois Native wrote:

"When taxable income increases to move into the next tax bracket - all of your taxable income in taxed at the higher percentage - not just the amount that put you over the line."

I don't think this is accurate. I think the people you are criticizing are right.

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Illinois Native wrote:

"When taxable income increases to move into the next tax bracket - all of your taxable income in taxed at the higher percentage - not just the amount that put you over the line."

I don't think this is accurate. I think the people you are criticizing are right.

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Illinois Native wrote:

It concerns me how many of the Obama supporters have made comments proving that they have wrong ideas of how our tax system works. When taxable income increases to move into the next tax bracket - all of your taxable income in taxed at the higher percentage - not just the amount that put you over the line.

-----------
That's simply not true. Think about it--that would mean that making 1 dollar above the cutoff would cause you to have less after-tax income than if you hadn't made the money. It just ain't so.

Posted by: MIddleagedlefty | October 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

In addition, Obama has not said how much he would fine "large" employers who fail to offer "meaningful" healthcare to all employees. Kinda vague there, don't you think?

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

"(4) EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION. Large employers that do not offer meaningful coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small businesses will be exempt from this
requirement."

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the 10:23pm "Taxes" entry by Michael Abramowitz: What I got from listening to Obama on this point was that by implementing McCain's proposal, businesses could end up dropping employees from coverage because supposedly these businesses would be taxed for providing health care subsidies (Maybe it's the other way around after reading M. Abramowitz's comment- because these businesses lost their tax deduction they might end up dropping their employees' coverage). Then, when an individual whose health coverage was dropped goes to buy their own coverage, they would end up paying a net amount even with the McCain's proposed $5,000 tax deduction because the average cost was $12,000 a year (McCain cited a much lower average cost of health care per year).

Posted by: Sam | October 16, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

In 2000 I changed my registration from Dem to Rep in order to vote for John McCain in the primary. After ultimately being smeared by the Karl Rove hate machine Sen McCain failed to get the nomination of his party. Now, eight years later John McCain has become someone that I can no longer support and in a great part due to his surrounding himself with exactly the same operatives responsible for the lies that cost him the 2000 nomination. I guess the pain of having his wife and adopted daughter attacked with ugly and demeaning lies wasn't enough to keep him from following the same path that, at the time, seemed so hurtful to him both politically and personally. Had McCain chosen to take the high road he might have actually had a chance even working against the terrible 8 year record and high negative rating of Pres Bush. You can't simply distance yourself from the the failed Bush policies by screaming maverick as long as you continue to surround yourself with, and follow the advice of, the Bush slime machine operatives. Why would anyone think for one minute that McCain will suddenly revert back to the the old respected Senator he was previously - he's going to owe big time to many of those he allowed to so grossly mismanage his campaign. While I still have great respect for Senator John McCain and his service to this country I simply can't find enough reason to believe that the John McCain I'm seeing now is the right choice for me.

Posted by: Michael C | October 16, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

HEALTH CARE COSTS
I am puzzled by your comment about taxes and the candidates' health plans. You repeat the conclusion of a study that McCain's plan would save the average taxpayer $1,411 (i.e., the difference between the proposed tax credit and the increase in taxes due to the elimination of the current tax-free treatment for employer-provided plans), but you ignore the fact that UNDER MCCAIN'S PLAN, THE TAXPAYER HAS TO PURCHASE HIS OWN HEALTH INSURANCE, which is NOT the case under current employer plans or Obama's proposal.

As Gov. Ed Rendell recently put it very succinctly, "Show me where I can get family health coverage for $5,000, and I'll buy it." When you factor in the cost of the insurance, the average taxpayer loses A LOT under McCain's proposal.

You also fail to mention the report's conclusion that families will save an average of $426 per year under the Obama Plan.

Posted by: BK | October 16, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

McNASTY LOSES SKIRMISH, BUT WAR ON THE COOL ONE SLOGS ON

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mcnasty-loses-debate-skirmish-war-cool-one-slogs


ARE THE McCAIN-PALIN CROWD AGITATORS THE SAME STORMTROOPERS WHO DO THIS:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens


WHAT IF McCAIN-PALIN'S STRATEGY IS AIMED NOT AT VOTERS, BUT AT THE APPARACHIK?

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mccain-palins-fellow-traveler-insinuations-what-if-u-s-security-forces-agree

Posted by: scrivener | October 16, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

My God, they were boring!!!! These "debates" are an absolute waste of time. Anybody who uses these pitiful performances to make a decision on who should be the next president is brain dead.

Check out their websites and scrutinize their histories. Please do your homework. Don't put us through another eight years of crap, because your to lazy to read!!!!

Posted by: John Armstrong | October 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

BK:

The "average" healthcare plan is $5300 -- check out the Fact Checker link to an independent study showing most Americans would be better under McCain's plan -- only down the road, for the "gold-plated" coverage would higher-end plans be impacted. Perhaps Gov. Rendell has one of those higher-end plans or (given his weight) a heart / cholesterol problem that would make premiums higher?

Michael C:

McCain is the SAME EXACT person you voted for in 2000.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the net costs of McCain's plan, if you are already receiving health insurance at work, the premium - what you pay as well as what the company pays - would be taxable. You won't pay any more for the coverage, but you will pay more to Uncle Sam.

But, if you are a family, and assuming you pay a marginal rate of 35%, your premium would have to be over $14,285.71 in order to increase your taxes more than the $5,000 tax credit your will receive. For an individual, your premium would have to be over 7,150.

So people with employer based health plans would be largely unaffected - some would even benefit. It is people who currently do not have health benefits who would be able to purchase it more economically. On the other hand, who is to say that some of them are just going to take the $5,000 and not buy insurance? Coverage will still be a net outlay, and a free $5,000 might just look very tempting. Is the IRS going to be checking who actually has coverage?

Also, I saw somewhere that McCain's campaign estimates the average benefit of his health plan is on the order of $1,400 per family. Assuming there are 100 million families, that's $1.4 billion. Who is paying for that?

I am actually for Obama for lots of reasons other than health care, but the details of this do seem to favor McCain.

Posted by: Brian | October 16, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

No Way! No How! No McCain!

Hey FACTCHECKER, what in the heck was John McCain talking about when he kept referring to Palin having and knowing about autism?!

Nothing has come out in the media about this. Palin's son has Down's Syndrome, not autism. I believe McCain had a few senior moments in the final debate that the media overlooked!

Posted by: AJ2008 | October 16, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I would've liked to have seen Nader, Barr and McKinney in one of these debates. It would have been interesting.

Posted by: lorddunsmore | October 16, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

how come this is allowed through? Huh?

I feel the only people voting for Obama are the African Americans, Mexicans, Muslims, DieHard Dems, and stupid people who are unpatriotic to this great country. Sen. Obama last night looked like a Muslim and if you add a beard and a turbin he would resemble the same people who behead and kill just because your not Muslim. Oh wait, they kill there own too.

Posted by: Jacko | October 16, 2008 11:16 AM

Posted by: what is up | October 16, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

What does that say, that saying that muslims behead and kill and their own is not considered profanity, personal attacks or other inappropriate behavior. would you have let that through if it was about jews? i dont think so.

Posted by: what is up | October 16, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Brian:

There will be some employers who stop offering healthcare insurance under McCain's plan. What I've seen, though, the net pick-up will end up covering MORE Americans. My big concern is the MANDATED coverage (or worse) that could be pushed through under a President Obama AND Democratically-controlled Congress.

Beside healthcare, then what other Obama plan do you think is better than McCain?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I intended this comment to go in a different direction, but Jacko's comment was so disturbing I changed course. Obama is a christian who was born in this country. McCain has even acknowledged these facts. Factcheck.org has verified his birth certificate. You may not agree with his politics, but that doesn't mean that the next appropriate step is hatred. Hatred has no place here or in either campaign. Debate on the issues, not smears, lies and hatred. Martin Luther King Jr said that there is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance. Jacko, you sir are the ignorance he spoke of. I feel sorry for you. Going through life with an angry chip on your shoulder must make life miserable.
Now to your hatred of muslims:You believe because of what happened to our country that all muslims are now evil. They aren't. That would be like the rest of the world basing all white Americans on the KKK or white supremacists of our country. I'm white. I certainly don't fit in those categories. I believe in the equality of all people as stated in our constitution and its amendments. I belive that ALL men are created equal. I'm sorry you don't believe the same.

Posted by: mel | October 16, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Even when we fact check the various fact checkers, McCain won the debate. He was more honest than Obama was, and more correct more of the time with his "straight talk."

But he never learned through three debates that you can't attack a glacier with an ice pick. Ayers? Nobody really cares about the 60's anymore, as such. ACORN? Most don't even know what he's talking about.

And he never learned that a McCain campaign is about McCain not Obama. Big mistake but only because he has kept this approach in play for so long.

And he never learned or realized that the democrats' greatest liability is a democratic president + a democrat-controlled congress. One party rule. This is scary to many people no matter which party it is. So, why not attack people like Frank, Pelosi and Reid? An amazing missed opportunity.

In essence, McCain handed the presidency to Obama on a platter. Not that Obama hasn't worked hard for it and not that he isn't deserving of our consideration, but given McCain's tactics since Sarah Palin was announced as a his running mate, the election results have been a forgone conclusion.

Posted by: old_hippie | October 16, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Is there any way to have someone fact check the fact check?

Posted by: Katie | October 16, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I could be wrong on this, but Obama claimed that 70% of small businesses made less than 250,000 dollars a year. I believe it is the other way around I will do more research throughout the day, but so far this is what I'm finding. What I am finding is that 70% of small businesses make more than 250,000 a year!!!!! So by all means let’s hurt 70% of America's small business by spreading the wealth around. Talk to small business owners and ask them how Obama's plan will hurt their current business. Obama's plan is to decrease taxes on the middle class but by the time he gets done there will be no middle class!!!! As far as the national debt goes when is the last time the President of the United States had the right to spend one dime. Last time I checked he can't. So half of what these candidates are saying is things they can propose, but will not definitely happen. I realize the last 4 years have been an extremely hard time, but the point is smaller government means less money spent and more money in the hands of the people. Obama's plan would increase the size of the government in just about every sector. Obama supporters, think about who you currently work for and what affect it would have on that company. I don’t understand why you would elect the most liberal person such as Obama when the country’s economy is at its worst since the Great Depression. The sensible thing to do would be to elect the person that wants to make government smaller and spend less. If I hear another eight years of bush one more time I’m going to scream. Look up the definition of conservative, now do you consider President Bush much of a conservative or more liberal. John McCain is not George Bush!!!!!

Posted by: Devin | October 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

If Palin was such a great role model, she'd be there for her kids, teenagers and special needs babies! Who's raising these kids? Not much time to mother if you're running a state... or campaigning. Kids require a devoted mother, (that's someone who puts in the time), to make successful, productive, confident citizens!

Posted by: Kathy | October 16, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

old_hippie:

Don't count McCain out just yet -- if it's God's Will for him to become President, it will happen -- the FBI is investigating ACORN too.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I think the winking is all the fact-checking I need -- an obvious sign of obfuscation.

Posted by: boesc | October 16, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

The hate that is present in your country is frightening! The worst of it is that it is based on ignorance or notions bred in during the formative years. JackD and Jacko, vote for whomever you want, but do it with your brain, not with emotions.
On another matter, Mr McCain IS too old. That is not a discriminatory statement, but a statement of fact. What is the percentage of people dying or becoming ill in their seventies?! If you only had a good replacement for him in the vice-president, his age might not be so important, but really! Mrs Palin as president??! You are (still)one of the most important countries in the world. Think of the potential chaos that might ensue!

Posted by: Toni (Canadian) | October 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Joe Plumber has a better plan then both Obama and McCain. My vote is for Joe the Plumber because he speaks the truth.

Posted by: Joe Fan | October 16, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for checking the facts, Devin. Obama is lying to us once again and looking straight into the camera while doing it!!! Oh and let's not forget that famous quote that "words matter." Here are just a few more words: Obama's not trustworthy; Obama's not ready to lead; Obama's not qualified for the position he's applying for; Obama needs on-the-job-training. Stay tuned for more words...

Posted by: Obama's not trustworthy | October 16, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe that people think that one man (Sen. Obama) can change this country around with HIS hopes and ideas. What he has accomplished through life is an achievement in every aspect, but 98% of our population doesn't have the opportunity or drive to succeed as he has. Most black people don't even care about the issues and all they care about is a black person becoming President which is pathedic. Socialism will rule this country if we allow someone who has connections to people and organizations who believe in that way of life. By the way, why do you think Sen. Obama didn't defend himself about having a meeting at Mr. Ayers house? He is a liar and someone like Mr. Ayers will always be a socialist who once believed in killing innocent people just to make a statement. Sen. Obama's wife even worked with Mr. Ayers wife long before that so come on people how much more evidence do you need to see that he will bring more government into our lives and less freedom for all. He bases his campaigne on his life experiences, not us middle class citizens who strive to make a life for ourselves and our children.

Posted by: James | October 16, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

On another matter, Mr McCain IS too old. That is not a discriminatory statement, but a statement of fact.
Posted by: Toni (Canadian) | October 16, 2008 2:09 PM

That's your opinion. It's not a fact.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

If Palin was such a great role model, she'd be there for her kids, teenagers and special needs babies! Who's raising these kids? Not much time to mother if you're running a state... or campaigning. Kids require a devoted mother, (that's someone who puts in the time), to make successful, productive, confident citizens!
Posted by: Kathy | October 16, 2008 1:49 PM


So the Democrats have the position that "Mothers of children should stay at home." Thanks for clearing that up. One more reason to vote for McCain/Palin.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the Canadian. jake d's entire posting history here - and jacko's last night - are racist, illogical and frankly, frightening. They are the work of truly smaller minds.
McCain's entire focus in this campaign was to question Obama's character, and to lie in the process. Obama, whose intellect is vastly superior to that of McCain, is secure enough in his positions to allow as to where McCain is right, when he is right. McCain could never give ground like that. Giving ground, and finding common ground, is what we need to steer us into the future. Think about this when you vote. Vote with your brains, not your emotional deficiencies.

Jake D's statement last night that he would never have common ground with Obama on abortion is exactly what is wrong with McCain. We can never agree on everything, bt if you are secure in yourself, you can give ground to someone else. Not finding common ground - like Bush, Cheney and McCain - is intolerant in the same way as Hitler was intolerant.

Posted by: Sue | October 16, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Reference the $250K for individuals and small businesses (aka Joe the Plumber): Several posts (Illinois Native, LGL, attobouy, Nathan, etc.) have worked around a key point that has not been clarified during debates or campaign sound bites: tax on net income of $250K vs gross income of $250K. As a small business owner I have a number of write-offs. If the business has gross revenue of $270K to $280K, as was mentioned in a post above, after deductions are taken the net would likely drop below the $250K mark and the 39 percent tax (additional %3) would likely never kick in. Normally a small business would be happy with a profit of 15 to 20 percent, which in this case a profit (net) of $250K would be 20 percent of a gross of roughly about $1.25 million. Also, what an opportunity Joe the Plumber has: aside from the 15 minutes of fame and talk shows, he should immediately copyright the name of his new plumbing business, "Joe the Plumber" and offer franchises across the U.S. at $25K a pop while the topic is hot. That's what entrepreneurship is all about. Then he could really pay some big taxes.

Posted by: TimP in Golden CO | October 16, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

The only time I support abortion is when I pray that it had been used on Obama supporters.

The poor and the unemployed deserve to starve! If they weren't so lazy and stupid they'd pull themselves up by their bootstraps like me.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Maybe 100% of McCain's ads in the past few weeks have been negative. But that's not what Obama said.
Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 10:53 PM

Didn't you use an analogy about if the sky is blue and orange and somebody says 'the sky is blue' that's a factual statement?

100% of his ads are negative. That's true.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm actually paid by the RNC to energize the Republican base. 10 cents a post, as long as I'm creating argument, sowing bigotry, and being generally disagreeable.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

The sky is blue and orange JakeD...remember?

I think you really do work for the double talk express!

Posted by: joe sixpack | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Not finding common ground - like Bush, Cheney and McCain - is intolerant in the same way as Hitler was intolerant.
Posted by: Sue | October 16, 2008 2:53 PM


LOL Your post was awsome on so many levels. The "superior intellect" comment brought back memories of Star Trek II (I see Obama is Khan to McCains Kirk).

But anyways, you get big props for throwing in a Hitler reference. I think its safe to say we hit bottom here.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

America is running $1 trillion plus in deficit per year for the next 4 years. Social security will no longer run in a surplus thus supplementing articially low borrowing costs. Interest rates will start to sky rocket. The economy will worsen. Unemployment will be 15% to 20%. The best jobs will be found in government.

The US will be led my a man who never grew up in the US.

We are screwed royally. Get out your rifles because we will be hunting squirrels and rabbits to eat.

Posted by: Rickthequick | October 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

IF I READ OF ONE MORE RESPONDER WHO IS GOING TO SCREAM, THEN I'M GOING TO SCREAM!!!!

Posted by: CRIBBFAN | October 16, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Toni:

You just let us worry about our country, hon (and I say that with NO "hate" ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Rickthequick: Not so fast, rick the quick. You are worried because Obama spent a part of his childhood not on U.S. soil? Really. What bearing can that have on his considerable ability to lead us out of the mess the Republicans have put us in? As Sue said a few postings ago, use your brain.
Anyone who watched the debate last night has to fear the possibility of a McCain presidency. He will be exactly like dubya. His interest is in dividing, antagonizing, attacking....he has no sense of reaching out to others. Also, the rhetoric he spews takes precedent over thoughtful discourse. This is NOT GOOD. A rational person cannot want this for a President.

Plus - he's TOO OLD.

Posted by: jbgm | October 16, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

He will be exactly like dubya. His interest is in dividing, antagonizing, attacking....he has no sense of reaching out to others.
Posted by: jbgm | October 16, 2008 4:06 PM


LOL What are you talking about?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"What bearing can that have on his considerable ability to lead us out of the mess the Republicans have put us in?"

1) I would argue that the GOP has not put us in a mess.

2) Even assuming that were the case, Obama has not proven ANY ability to lead us.

3) Divided loyalities by a President is a valid campaign issue.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

To Anonymous:
"Mr McCain is too old for the job."
No, Anonymous, it is not only my opinion. It is a indisputable fact that a far larger number of people die in their seventies or older than in their forties. Also, the chance of mental decline, health issues and loss of stamina is greater. Mr McCain is past his prime and cannot be counted on to be strong enough to pull off four or eight years in one of the most strenuous jobs in the world.
And again, what if he falters?! What does the country have to fall back on! Palin?!!
(I have yet to talk to a Canadian or a European who would support Mr McCain, and they very likely have the more objective view.)
Another matters strikes me often. Why do you call Mr Obama "black" when he has just as much "white" blood? If one of your ancestors were someone famous, you would boast about him even if he were ten generations back and you had 2% of his genes in you. But a man with 50% white genes is "black"!?
Only in the States it is an issue with some people. The rest of the world doesn't even notice his permanent tan!

Posted by: Toni | October 16, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Truman's Vice President was allegedly a little too close for comfort to KNOWN Soviet spies -- you think that would be O.K. too?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Toni:

You would even have a free country today if it weren't for the United States. Like I said, you let us worry about our country, hon.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

would = wouldn't

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

(I have yet to talk to a Canadian or a European who would support Mr McCain, and they very likely have the more objective view.)
Posted by: Toni | October 16, 2008 4:15 PM


LOL Well then that settles it.

BTW, you're still wrong. Its your opinion. Learn how to use actuarial statistics properly.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Why doesn't anybody admit the truth, John McCain, Sarah Palin and all of his supporters are Klansman and Racists, there's nothing that Barack could do or say other than change his skin color to get any of the RACIST out there to support him, so go find someone to lynch, since that's what you support.

Posted by: anonymous | October 16, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Why do you call Mr Obama "black" when he has just as much "white" blood?
Posted by: Toni | October 16, 2008 4:15 PM


Obama calls himself black.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

We hear all about Ayers, etc., but why aren't we hearing all about the Forrestal fire, and how McCain was on the first helicopter off, and how McCain cracked up 5 or 6 planes as a "hotshot" pilot, and how his nickname was "Songbird" when he was a pow? There were thousands upon thousands of real heroes who gave their lives for their country, so what made McCain so different that he should be elected president of the USA because he was a "war hero".

Posted by: bjk89 | October 16, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

For the record, I am a supporter of John SIDNEY McCain and Sarah LOUISE Palin -- I already voted for them -- but, I would have had no problem, voting for a PRO-LIFE African American, Alan Keyes for instance. Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

bjk89:

I would have voted for McCain even if he were not a POW.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Alan's middle name is LEE. How many bone fide Klansman and RACISTS would be willing to vote for him?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

bone = bona (darn Spellchecker ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous (at 4:36 PM):

Was that you, again, Pete?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

nuh-uh!
uh-huh!
nuh-uh!
uh-huh!

Posted by: joe sixpack | October 16, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Anti-discrimination does not mean that one must treat all of any particular class as if they are qualified. It means if they are qualified, you can't differentiate them from other equally qualified individuals.

An individual's age, disability, and to a small extent gender can disqualify the individual. If one is, for example, a wheelchair user, one is clearly disqualified to be a firefighter, and none but the most obtuse would scream "discrimination!". While it's not impossible that at some point in the future a woman will have the physicality to play in the National Football League, it isn't "discrimination" that has prevented women from playing in the NFL -- it's that the vast majority of women, perhaps even all women, lack the size and musculature to do so.

And aging is a degenerative process -- some older people are unable to do some jobs because of this process. It isn't discrimination to refuse to hire the frail elderly as laborers on a construction site, or to refuse to hire an accountant with age-related dementia.

Not only is it not discriminatory to refuse to hire the unqualified elderly, it is entirely legal to ask if an applicant has any age-related or other conditions which would prevent him or her from being able to perform the job.

The question "Is John McCain too old to fulfill the duties of the presidency?" -- is his mind still sharp? is his body up to the strain of international travel and 20-hour workdays? is he able to handle the strain of the weight of the world on his shoulders? -- is a legitimate question for voters to ask themselves, and it is in no way discriminatory.

On the other hand "Ewww. I hate gray hair! And he has wrinkles. I hate wrinkles and I'll never vote for a man with wrinkles!" would be a discriminatory sentiment, though it is entirely legal for a voter to cast a vote for any reason, short of having sold his or her vote to the highest bidder. And I hope people respect the value of their vote to cast it as they do for the best of reasons, not the worst.

Posted by: What age (or any other sort of) discrimination is: | October 16, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

But was Joe a shill related to Charles Keating's son in law?

The right wing seems to think so.

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/

Posted by: m tobias | October 16, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm still mixed up on Joe the Plumber, and his tax situation. I have a corporation that does gross receipts of $1M per year; shows no profit (after expenses,inc my salary and that of everyone else who works there)and I myself show a salary of $100K. Under Mr Obabma's plan, do I pay corporate taxes or not? In other words, does Mr Obama understand the difference between gross and net? Why do corporations pay any tax at all, since we all have to pay income tax, anyway?

Posted by: timsiepel | October 16, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

timsiepel:

Both small businesses and large corporations are helped by McCain's tax plan -- across the board -- his campaign has proposed to make several changes in the Tax Code that would cut the tax rate for corpora­tions from 35 percent to 25 percent by 2015. Another McCain proposal is to allow the immediate expensing of equipment investment by businesses from 2009 to 2013. I guess if you can find where Obama defines "small business" (I haven't been able to -- see healthcare excerpt above) you will be able to determine whether his plan will cost you more or not.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

During last night's debate, Mr McCain made reference to Mr Obama's intention of unilaterally restructuring NAFTA- any truth in this?
I'm also concerned with all the personal attacks, aimed at both these gentlemen (and their running mates), I have read on this site. It is their policies, statements, and actions we need to critcize, not the individuals themselves.

Posted by: concerned Canadian | October 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Where did you get that gem, JakeD? We fought against the States for our freedom and won. (Remember your history? The Niagara region battles?)Furthermore, we established our own freedom against the English. No help from anyone else!(The English had already done the French in for us.)
I wish, and the world wishes with me, that we COULD let you worry about your own country.But, to some considerable extent Canada's and the West-in-general's fortunes still rise and fall with those of the States. We are worried about our own interests. Fortunately our economy was well served by our government, we don't have half the worries you have, but we will feel the malaise of your country. We thrive or suffer with it.

Posted by: Toni | October 16, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Re: JakeD's comment "you (Canada I assume) wouldn't even have a free country if it weren't for the United States."
I believe Canada is a "free" country because of the people that live here. We have a democratically elected government, and most Canadians are reasonably honest, hard working, open-minded, and thoughtful people. I think the same can be said for all "free" countries in the world.

Posted by: concerned Canadian | October 16, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Toni:

Were it not for the AMERICAN Revolution, we and you would still be part of the British Empire -- that's not a stretch of anyone's imagination -- America's rise parallels England's decline in hegemony. Hell, woman, your country just acheived FULL legal independence relatively recently (1982 IIRC). You really think if the U.S. were still a British colony, that Canada would have had the balls to declare independence any earlier?! LOL

Doesn't Queen Elizabeth remain Queen and Head of State of Canada to this day? Her constitutional powers over Canada were not affected by the Canada Act. While Canada finally has full sovereignty over its realm, the Queen's role is separate from her role as the British monarch. at least that's my American lay understanding.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

"concerned" Canadian:

Please see my most recent post to Toni.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

(I borrowed some of that from Wikipedia, but with all these "concerned" Canadians here interfering with American elections, I'm sure one of them will correct anything I missed ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:07 PM | Report abuse

To all the people calling McCain to old for the job, I guess what your saying is you would rather elect a very unexperienced person to the job then an experienced person that is older. Take a look at Obama's experience as a senator compared to when his campaign started. I don't know how he made it as far as he has much less leading in the polls. Do some research people and I don't mean biased research and you can start by reading my last post!

Posted by: Devin | October 16, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Do you people in Canada or the Netherlands ever see us interfering (on-line or in person) with your internal elections?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, how many illegal contributions were there to Obama's campaign from that Gaza refugee camp?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Darn. I just tried to make a donation to Stephen Harper but was unable to certify: "I am a Canadian Citizen or Permanent Resident of Canada and I am making this contribution with my personal credit card and not a corporate card."

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I will go support this party instead:

http://www.chp.ca/en/index.html

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Where did all the Canadians go to?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Lets say Joe makes $350,000 this year and with 9 employees deducts $100,000 for employee health care. He'll pay $3000 more in taxes on a straight line but factor in $50,000 small business tax credit for healthcare and Joe is a couple of grand ahead. Joe does not cover workers he is out $3000.

Posted by: Jimbo | October 16, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

I don't know how he made it as far as he has much less leading in the polls.
Posted by: Devin | October 16, 2008 7:16 PM


Because the media is backing Obama in a way that is unprecedented. He shouldn't even be the Democratic Party nominee.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Jimbo, did you ever find a "link" for Monegan already suing and winning a settlement?

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Jim FYI Monegan already has taken them to court and won an out of court settlement.

Posted by: Jimbo | October 13, 2008 9:01 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/10/four_pinocchios_for_palin.html#comments

LOL!

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

You got that right, Devin. “Senator Government” has been in the Senate for such an extremely long period of a few years. He voted 90+ times “present” while he was “working so hard” for us in the Senate. He managed to write a few books, but neglected to write any legislation while in the Senate. Then the idiot chooses Biden as his running mate when only a few short months ago, Biden himself (as well as Hillary) stated that Obama was not ready to lead. What’s wrong with this picture?!?! Check out his resume!!! After all, we're the hiring managers. Why would you hire someone who's not qualified for the job. Wake up America!!!!

Posted by: NOBAMA!! NOBAMA!! NOBAMA!! | October 16, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

If the USA is indeed responsible for Canada becoming an independent and free country, THANKYOU!- we will try to keep it that way.
I'm still wondering about Mr. McCain's statement regarding Mr Obama's intention to unilaterally rewrite NAFTA- this could have serious economic implications for all partners in this agreement.

Posted by: concerned Canadian | October 16, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

JakeD wrote: "Seriously, how many illegal contributions were there to Obama's campaign from that Gaza refugee camp?"

I don't know, JakeD; why don't you go get some facts and come back and tell us? I'd especially like to see the total expressed as a percentage of Obama's total online donations.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

I think I post enough to not have to do homework on top of that.

Posted by: JakeD | October 16, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

"McCain would scrap the [health] system in favor of a plan that would give indivuduals a $2500 tax credit to buy insurance and families $5000." My daughter, husband, and child pay about $12,000/year for very ordinary health insurance because they are not in a group. People in group insurance do pay lower rates. It's those not in a group who pay high rates. Those with a pre-existing condition frequently cannot get meaningful insurance. If they can get the insurance, the rates are sky-high and don't cover anything pre-existing. Obama's health plans are greatly superior to McCain's.

Posted by: Eleanor - South Carolina | October 16, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

My daughter, husband, and child pay about $12,000/year for very ordinary health insurance because they are not in a group.
Posted by: Eleanor - South Carolina | October 16, 2008 11:22 PM


You need to shop around for a better plan.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Please tell me Obama's health plan it changes from week to week, one week there is a fine the next there is not. Then there is a fine for a certain group of people such as company's providing health care. By the way please tell me how much of a fine. By the way I would not take it to heart that Obama is going to provide this expensive proposition because last time I checked like I said earlier in a post today the President is not allowed to spend one dime of the tax payer's money. All he can do is recomend it to congress then he can pass it or veto the bill. By the way were in a recession and don't plan on congress getting to that anytime soon!

Posted by: Devin | October 16, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Obama will tell you what you want to hear, now ask yourself, do you think this is actually going to happen.

Posted by: Devin | October 16, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Well, JakeD, let's forget Obama-McCain. The war of words between the Canadians and you is more entertaining. Yes, we still have the Queen of England as our (figure) "Head of State", much to my personal chagrin. Who needs her? Most Canadians are rarely aware of this fact; she has no power and our bills are signed into law by our Governor General.
But, I don't see how the Americans obtained our freedom. When you were free from England, we were still a Dominion for a long time.
We came into our own during WWII, which we entered in 1939 as an independent country -long before the States, and our boys fought just as bravely as yours for the freedom of the world.
This is the last I write about it; it's hardly the issue under discussion here.
I hope that the very best person may win your election, although I may not agree with you who this may be.
One chauvinistic statement as finale: when, fifty years ago, we had a choice to emigrate either to the States or to Canada, we ended up in Canada, and love it dearly from the moment we set foot in it.

Posted by: Toni | October 17, 2008 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Judging from what I see and hear, there are no worthwhile canidates. Politics are for those who can't work for a living. All they do is take from the good and give it to everyone that doesn't deserve it. We send too much money to foriegn countries. Take care of our own before we bail out the world.

Posted by: Robert | October 17, 2008 4:30 AM | Report abuse

all lies all lies
95% of americans believe
they will get a tax break
from a democrat!!!!

gullible
no wonder the post refers to us
as ignorant hillbillies.
no pun intended, hillary.

NOBAMA

Posted by: steelworker for mccain | October 17, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

If an ad is telling the truth, but the truth is a negative view of the candidate, is that a negative ad or "reporting"??

Posted by: Revnur | October 17, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

buongiorno.assistendo.al.discorso.del.presidente.accetto.le.scuse.ma.non.accetto.la.speculazione.l'escrocheria.e.il.furto.anzi.considero.wall.street.un.conportamento.immorale.e.irrespnsabile.dei.vari.diricenti.della.federal.reserv.da.due.hanni.la.mia.famiglia.sofre.la.fame.mendico.per.le.strade.per.ramassare.un.po.di.denaro.falsi.politicanti.e.truffatori.io.che.donavo.il.calihe.della.ricchezza.all'america.e.si.taxe.e.sopartaxe.terrorista.e.insulti.io.che.ho.salvato.i.tre.americani.dai.falchi.insulti.al.mio.popolo.quale.democrazia.obama.per.la.nuova.era.tu.che.hai.la.laurea.mentre.un.professore.e.un.pezzente.nobel.all'economia.scienza.oscar.cramih.e.nobel.per.la.page.vai.obama.con.la.tua.laurea.mi.pulisco.il.sedere.annuncio.mia.canditatura.indipendente.liberare.annunciate.mobilitate.with

Posted by: crisogianni.luigi | October 17, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Even if it's the truth about the other candidate, that counts as "negative". Look, you guys have your "truth" and I have mine. Let's see what the people decide on November 4th.

Posted by: JakeD | October 17, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Besides the voter registration fraud, one must mention ACORN 's traditional role on enforcing the Community Reinvestment Act on banks to do subprime lending , which finally resulted several trillion dollars worth of bad loans in banks and investment firms as well as the recent sharp drop in stock value and the savings of middle and upper class people in USA and abroad.

Posted by: austin b | October 17, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Come on people, think about it we are in a huge economic windfall, we are at war and you Obama fans want to have an inexperienced politician for President. People make stupid choices like buying a house they couldn't afford in the first place and now this, WOW. I am sure Sen. Obama will also have many of his positioned filled by other inexperienced personal except of course for Biden who I like a lot better then Obama. We are screwed and if Obama is elected President then you might as well hand over your money to the government for programs that help out people who don't want to work or go to school, and of course illegal immigrants.

Posted by: James | October 17, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

If an ad is telling the truth, but the truth is a negative view of the candidate, is that a negative ad or "reporting"??
Posted by: Revnur | October 17, 2008 9:43 AM

Even if it's the truth about the other candidate, that counts as "negative". Look, you guys have your "truth" and I have mine. Let's see what the people decide on November 4th. Posted by: JakeD | October 17, 2008 9:56 AM
So let me see....Candidates throw "ads" on TV about every 15 minutes during prime time.
So,if a "reporter" were to break in every 15 minutes for a news update, "reporting" a story that gives a truthful but negative view of a candidates history or associations, that would meet with your approval...it is just the "ads" that YOU (and others) have defined as negative...


Posted by: Anonymous | October 17, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

buongiorno.assistendo.a.una.farsa.politica.menaceriale.in.cui.il.popolo.anneviato.di.illusione.annuncio.mia.canditatura.come.indipendente.liberale.oltre.il.12.per.cento.della.popolazione.vive.sulla.soglia.della.poverta.ebbene.mobilitate.mie.organizzazioni.nell'aiuto.necessario.denaro.abitazione.e.lavoro.domando.il.rientro.immediato.dell'esercito.dai.paesi.irak.africanistan.kuveit.arabia.il.terrorismo.devono.aprenderlo.a.conbattere.i.paesi.arabi.innoltre.condanno.apertamente.tutta.violenza.nei.popoli.e.le.gerarchie.del.terrore.come.le.dittature.tahilandia.canbogia.eborneo.sono.contrario.all'aborto.essendo.per.la.vita.e.facente.parte.al.movimento.pacifista.rinnovo.sanita.ospedali.gratis.medicamenti.gratis.nuove.strutture.ospedaliere.rinnovo.educazione.stop.busines.scuola.il.diritto.allo.studio.per.tutti.nuove.strutture.e.riforma.educativa.troppa.violenza.nelle.scuole.interdizzione.e.vendita.di.armi.con.chiusura.negozzi.terra.al.popolo.rosso.riforma.economica....nesara....strutture.socio.educative.per.la.classe.media.e.poveri.eliminazione.taxe.e.fisco.investimenti.industriali.e.strutture.in.16.anni.di.politica.hanno.distrutto.il.paese.e.la.nazione.riforma.federal.reserv.nazionalizzare.altri.procrammi.come.distruzzione.centrali.nucleari.e.bonbe.nucleari.con.assenblea.mondiale.l'america.deve.assumere.la.neutralita.nel.mondo.come.portatore.di.page.nuova.era.nuova.democrazia.liberta.amore.misericordia.e..conpassione.per.le.nuove.generazioni.future.gioia.giustizzia.e.diritto.alla.vita.nuove.strutture.energetiche.ego.rispetto.per.la.natura.innoltre.ringrazio.il.popolo.nel.protergermi.e.conbattere.la.grande.rivoluzione.in.corso.per.il.popolo.e.solo.per.il.popolo.la.vittoria

Posted by: crisogianni.luigi | October 17, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

buongiorno.assistendo.al.discorso.del.presidente.accetto.le.scuse.ma.non.accetto.la.speculazione.l'escrocheria.e.il.furto.anzi.considero.wall.street.un.conportamento.immorale.e.irrespnsabile.dei.vari.diricenti.della.federal.reserv.da.due.hanni.la.mia.famiglia.sofre.la.fame.mendico.per.le.strade.per.ramassare.un.po.di.denaro.falsi.politicanti.e.truffatori.io.che.donavo.il.calihe.della.ricchezza.all'america.e.si.taxe.e.sopartaxe.terrorista.e.insulti.io.che.ho.salvato.i.tre.americani.dai.falchi.insulti.al.mio.popolo.quale.democrazia.obama.per.la.nuova.era.tu.che.hai.la.laurea.mentre.un.professore.e.un.pezzente.nobel.all'economia.scienza.oscar.cramih.e.nobel.per.la.page.vai.obama.con.la.tua.laurea.mi.pulisco.il.sedere.annuncio.mia.canditatura.indipendente.liberare.annunciate.mobilitate.with

Posted by: crisogianni.luigi | October 17, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Well then....Is ANY of this true? Or are these "just" blurbs from negaative ads?

>Senator Obama was the first Chairman of the Board of the Chicago Annenberg CHALLENGE, which was a Division, or Project, of the Annenberg Foundation.

>William Ayers was instrumental in founding the Challenge.

>The Annenberg files have become unaccessable after a reporter was promised access.

>Factcheck.org is a Division, or Project, of the Annenberg Foundation.

>ACORN has received a million dollars from the Barack Obama Campaign in 2008,funneled
through Citizens Services Inc

>The Senator has been working with ACORN since his first days as a Community Organizer in Chicago.

Posted by: Revnur | October 17, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I like this story and programs like this will grow if Obama becomes President:

Letter by a Florida teacher................ A teacher speaks This is a subject close to my heart. Do you know that we have adult students at the school where I teach who are not US citizens and who get the PELL grant, which is a federal grant (no pay back required) plus other federal grants to go to school?


One student from the Dominican Republic told me that she didn't want me
to find a job for her after she finished my program, because she was
getting housing from our housing department and she was getting a PELL
grant which paid for her total tuition and books, plus money leftover.


She was looking into WAIT which gives students a CREDIT CARD for gas to
come to school, and into CARIBE which is a special program (check it out
- I did) for immigrants and it pays for child care and all sorts of
needs while they go to school or training. The one student I just
mentioned told me she was not going to be a US Citizen because she plans
to return to the Dominican Republic someday and that she 'loves HER
country.'


I asked her if she felt guilty taking what the US is giving her and then
not even bothering to become a citizen and she told me that it doesn't
bother her, because that is what the money is there for!


I asked the CARIBE administration about their program and if you ARE a
US Citizen, you don't qualify for their program. And all the while, I am
working a full day, my son-in-law works more than 60 hours a week, and
everyone in my family works and pays for our education.


Something is wrong here. I am sorry but after hearing they want to sing
the National Anthem in Spanish - enough is enough. Nowhere did they sing
it in Italian, Polish, Irish (Celtic), German or any other language
because of immigration. It was written by Francis Scott Key and should
be sung word for word the way it was written. The news broadcasts even
gave the translation -- not even close. Sorry if this offends anyone but
this is MY COUNTRY.
IF IT IS YOUR COUNTRY SPEAK UP -- please pass this along . I am not
against immigration -- just come through like everyone else.
Get a sponsor; have a place to lay your head; have a job; pay your
taxes, live by the rules AND LEARN THE LANGUAGE as all other immigrants
have in the past -- and GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Posted by: Jacko | October 17, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Boy, Jacko! Am I ever with you on this! We have the same attitude here in Canada: immigrants do not have to adjust to our way of life, we have to accommodate theirs. It is ridiculous. When we came to Canada, half a century ago, you'd better learn the language and assimilate or go to some other country. And we did. Most of us were successful; only a small percentage went back.
Let us give our newcomers a fair chance,let's recognize their accomplishments and talents, let's put unnecessary obstacles in their way, but put the onus where it belongs: not on the guest country, but on the immigrant. He is the one to adjust and show allegiance to his new country.
(In all fairness, a lot of them do.)

Posted by: Toni | October 17, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Ouch! I meant to say in my last missive: Let's NOT put unnecessary in [immigrants] way.
Sorry!
Toni

Posted by: Anonymous | October 17, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Where were the fact checkers when Bush told us Iraq had nuclear weapons.

Posted by: riddelup | October 17, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: z0w1cae55n | October 17, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

IT'S OFFICIAL! The WaPo pals around with terrorists and has been IN THE TANK for Barack HUSSEIN Obama since the get go. You don't have to pretend anymore, Dobbs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101603436_pf.html

In other "news" Gallup yesterday, and now AP/Yahoo poll today, have McCain within TWO POINTS.

Posted by: JakeD | October 17, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: 8pzucejptp | October 17, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

All these interesting comments are just proof that we all have opinions (some) that we hold high. I will wait and see who will win. I will cast my vote, and regradless of who wins. These fact checking organizations and data only display bias of some sort, cause they get their info from a third-party too. (unless they were present when it took place). JUST VOTE. I just like being nosey, so I read them. Thanks for the post

Posted by: justvoteandsee | October 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I am very upset to hear that in Ohio the Supreme Court rejected the authorization to double check voter registration that Acorn is heading up. I feel if people want to vote then let them register when they vote, not before because we have already seen false or duplicated registrations. As an American I am sick to my stomach to know that Acorn is guilty, but our Supreme court over rules it, how pathedic. I guess they would love to see another lawyer for President since that is where their career's started. Please look up Howard Stern because he had a black person go around asking other black people what they felt about Obama's plan as President and they all loved it. The funny thing is that it was Sen. McCain's plan, not Obama. This just tells you that they don't care about issues and all they care about is having a black person as President. Sen. Obama wants to spread the wealth around which means us middle class and the rich will have to pay more taxes to support people who don't want to work or want an education.

Posted by: Jacko | October 17, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: if9cehxeua | October 17, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

If it was a "recent" report by GAO (referring to 9:58 taxes commentary), then you should check your facts better as well, Post. The General Accounting Office changed its name to the Government Accountability Office in July of 2004. Reports released under the General Accounting Office name would be at least four years old at this point, making your claim that it is a "recent" report questionable at best. If it was released "recently" enough to have the Government Accountability Office name, then you cited your source incorrectly.

While fact-checking can have value, that value is diminished if the fact checkers don't have a good grasp of facts.

Posted by: GAO Fan | October 17, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

If it was a "recent" report by GAO (referring to 9:58 taxes commentary), then you should check your facts better as well, Post. The General Accounting Office changed its name to the Government Accountability Office in July of 2004. Reports released under the General Accounting Office name would be at least four years old at this point, making your claim that it is a "recent" report questionable at best. If it was released "recently" enough to have the Government Accountability Office name, then you cited your source incorrectly.

While fact-checking can have value, that value is diminished if the fact checkers don't have a good grasp of facts.

Posted by: blindem | October 17, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Yikes! Why doesn't everyone just accept that two politicians means two sets of lies?
Here's how I see it: Would you rather vote for McCain with his nitwit of a Veep choice, and end up a) dead broke because the Corporate Facist Party will remain firmly intrenched? ("Trickle Down"? I know what that conjures up in my mind, and it ain't money); b) and/or dead, period, because McCain's military fanaticism initiates the last Great Crusade? and/or; c) end up laying in an alleyway finagling with a coat hanger while you bleed to death? or even; d) God forbid, Sarah Palin has to run the country and be COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF???? Chatty Cathy in the White House. That's JUST what we need.
The alternative is to vote for Obama and be happy, healthy, and feel like you have someone who makes you proud to show off to the world, who doesn't want war, who won't legislate morality (which is impossible - see, for example, "Prohibition"); anyways, and who won't leave you destitute at the end of his term(s?). I'm going for that guy.
People, people, people! From the "I've always been a Republican"s to the "yep, I ainta' gonna' give up my guns", to the "Pro-lifers" who won't kill a fetus but will suffocate adults and even teenagers with cyanide in a gas chamber and who bomb innocent civilians from 35,000 feet and send troops to a country that didn't attack us so they can kill some more people - AND, call themselves "Christians" (you know - the "turn the other cheek thing"; to all of you, I leave you with this to ponder: Why do you always vote against your own self-interests? The rich who are now poor but won't admit it; the "Joe Sixpacks" who are considered flea-dirt to those who have all the money - including Sarah Palin, who has millions - but, because she shot a moose, they're willing to ignore every other impropriety of the Grand Old Party, including shredding the Constitution and working always to keep you poor, all just to do the "macho" thing by voting the slightly more pro-gun party. BELIEVE me, no one's taking your guns. You know how hard it is to get fifty states you ratify anything? Try impossible.
P.S. - I think Obama would also be a guy who knows that every news organization has a political slant, and that you should really do any meaningful fact checking at non-biased sites such as factcheck.org and/or politifact.org. Not here.
And again: Ask yourself if you are voting against your own self-interets. Because when you do, everyone you love and know suffer too. Needlessly.

And that's my two cents.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 17, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

That's considerably more than "two cents".

Obama rejects public financing –- so he’s not only a secret Muslim -- he’s a secret hypocrite too.

Posted by: JakeD | October 17, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

My vote will not be Obama, that is for sure and not because he is black or pals around with terrorists and Socialist groups, but because he has VERY little experience. Think of it this way, do you hire someone who has experience or an education for a job position? I would take the experience any day because they don't have to be trained and know how to deal with things without asking questions.

Posted by: Jacko | October 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

HELPING VETS or Stabbing them in the back again. John McChicken, traitor and Coward

Sen. John McCain’s recently scored D on the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America report card, by members of the University of Iowa Veterans Association, The Daily Iowan reported. Sen. Barack Obama received a B on the IAVA report card.


“There’s a difference between the public John McCain who’s a POW and the John McCain who votes consistently against veterans’ benefits,” said sophomore Drew Hjelm, who supports Libertarian candidate Bob Barr. “I just don’t see why that’s not a big talking point for Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama’s camp. … John McCain is way off-base.”

“I think five years as a POW earns you a lot of things most people don’t deserve — but the presidency is not one of them,” added senior Scott Lyon, who is also leaning toward Barr.

Criticisms against McCain were lobbed during a UI Veterans Association meeting Wednesday on the UI campus.

During the meeting, Aaron Schlumbohm, a member, admitted he was surprised by McCain’s low evaluation “because I bought into the myth, the McCain myth.”

VETS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MUY9S6iCvk

Posted by: basementfrog | October 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

"what is the cut-off for "small" business? Maybe Joe the plumber would employ too many. As for "common ground" with Obama on abortion; NEVER!"

Posted by: JakeD | October 15, 2008 10:23 PM

First of all, how many times do you have to hear $250,000?? It's been stated enough.... If your moral or religious belief is that a woman should not abort a pregnancy, then you should not go and have one. Simple as that. That is assuming you are female. By the name I assume you are male, in that case, STFU...it's not your body.

Posted by: Gina | October 17, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe it, I was knocked down to 32 hours a week and my wife just lost her job and we both are professionals. I worked my ass off through 7 years of college and 13 years of long hour days for what? Watch out America because I have a feeling there will be thousands if not millions of jobs lost because it's to late to fix it. I wish our government would have warned us about the huge problem months ago so we could have prepared, but of course they held out on us like they always do. No matter who is in office it will not make a bit of difference because they are all out for their own kind and that does not include middle class or professionals like me. If I had to vote I would vote for McCain because he at least has years of experience dealing with all kinds of problems, what has Obama fixed or created to better the average citizen?

Posted by: Stunned Citizen | October 17, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

I am sorry, but Barrack Hussien Obama is a Muslim name so don't freakin tell us American citizens that he is Christain because he was born a Muslim. As for the Christain church he went to for 20 years, it was Rev. Wright who preached racism and blamed the white man for their lack of education and wanting a better life. Black people are more racist then whites, but you don't see us complaining that because we didn't get a job that is was based on racism.

Posted by: Jacko | October 17, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Gina:

I will not "shut up" until that day the Good Lord takes me Home.

Posted by: JakeD | October 17, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

i have a comment on the debates and the great world of the undecided voter (or the morons,whichever) i have news for you if you can't make up your peabrain by now please spare us and don't vote. quit looking for your 15 minutes of fame and just stay away from the voting booth you will only make the lines longer.i don't care who people vote for,vote for who you think is the best man for the job,just do not go on tv looking like an idiot (we already have enough on tv,you can see them on the news every night. thank you america

Posted by: ralph neuter | October 17, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Undecided voters:

I don't think you are "morons" and I understand your frustration -- John McCain was NOT my first choice either -- if you have any questions about him, though, I will do my best to get you the answers.

Posted by: JakeD | October 17, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe Sarah Palin called certain parts of the country UnAmerican. Look at the words she used. Pro American, Real Americans, and Best of America. What kind of Right Wing nut is Sarah Palin to be running for VP and insulting the same folks she wants to vote for her. I guess its only Obama supporters or anybody who doesn't support their robo calls and low road campaign tactics. I think the media is taking this too lightly. Sarah Palin during a fund raiser said that only certain parts of the country are patriotic and real Americans and she's running to be VP and proberly president. Thats very alarming and I think she needs to explain exactly which part of America does she think is UnAmerican or less patriotic. This is starting to become a narrative. On Chris Mathews today congresswoman Michelle Bockwman said that congress should be integregated on who's American and anti-American. Now Sarah Palin is stating that only certain parts of America are Pro America. This follows 3 weeks of attacks from the Mccain/Palin campaign that questioned Obama's patriotism. The republicans and Mccain/Palin campaign should be questioned about their patriotism its the Republican party that has made the economy worst with their deregulation and their Right Wing policies for the rich. Its the Republican Party that has us in 2 wars thats costing us Billions a month. How patriotic is the Republican Pary when the leader of their Party is leaving the country with 2 wars with no resolution, 11 trillion in debt, and a economy in turmoil? Their the ones if anybody who's patriotism should be in quesion. I think if Mccain/Palin were in the White House the country would be worst with their radical Right Wing beliefs and their decisive nature. KEEP MCCAIN/PALIN OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE. WHY HASN'T THE MEDIA ASK MCCAIN ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH GORDON LIDEY? IT TOOK DAVID LETTERMAN A NIGHT SHOW COMEDIAN TO GIVE MCCAIN A REAL INTERVIEW. THE MOST EFFECTIVE INTERVIEW MCCAIN HAS HAD THROUGHOUT THIS CAMPAIGN.

Posted by: SUSAN | October 18, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse

wow susan i agree with a lot you said,but you should get some sleep before posting.if we take out your misspelled words i don't think you have a full sentence. sarah flailen is a right wing nut job,but there is your special of the day either order it or look for somrthing else on the menu. if anyone here thinks they will change the mind of america with a good dose of truth,forget it,not going to happen!

Posted by: ralph neuter | October 18, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

oh by the way susan, forgive my spelling that word is something not somrthing

Posted by: Anonymous | October 18, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I want to encourage McCain supporters to read about his real past. Not what he tells you. He follows the same lines as most rich brats. Obama came from the bottom and worked up. Rolling Stone has a great article on McCain this month.

Posted by: Truth | October 18, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a radical, but found participants' comments quite amusing. Noticed that the liberal Democrats seem to lack education, as evidenced by their poor grammar, horrible spelling, and bad attitude. It's amazing how they could criticize conservatives for expressing the truth about their candidate, yet it is okay for liberals to spread lies, make fun of Republican candidates, and distort the truth. Hypocrisy runs rampant among liberals. I have never heard a word regarding race from the McCain camp, yet there is a lot said about McCain's age from Obama's camp. 72 years is not too old. There are thousands of 72+ seniors who are full of life and possess all their sensory cells. How many of you can travel daily to different meetings, give speeches, and talk to countless number of people? Even those who are 40 years younger would be totally exhausted. Due to his age and experience, he is capable of coming up with much better plans for our country than can Obama. People, wake up and support the man who can lead our country with experience and patriotism, and not the one with smooth talk and rock star appearance!

Posted by: LIBRA | October 19, 2008 3:33 AM | Report abuse

Yes Libra, there are many 72 year olds who are just fine. There are also many that aren't. Did you actually read the truth about your candidate? Or do you hold the same imagination as all the other beer swilling WWF watching McCain supporters out there? McCain appeals to your passions, not your intellect. If you look at the actual facts on McCain's plans, it is easy to see he is in fantasy land. Both are politicians and therefore can't be trusted. Obama is definitely the lesser of the 2 evils.

Posted by: Truth | October 19, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm not voting for McCain, I'm voting against Obama (Senator Government). We not not need to socialize more government programs. They are the ones that got us in this mess in the first place. I don't want their health care. If you need it, get a job and pay for it. Enough with entitlements to people who don't want to work or who have never contributed to our society.

Posted by: no obama | October 20, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm a very troubled New York resident who is fed up with paying outrageous taxes and the AMT. It's expensive to live on Long Island and these guys just don't get it. I've worked hard my whole life, saved, sacrificed, have a son in college, and twins heading off in two years. Under OBama's tax plan I am screwed. I am also so so tired with the with the "hockey mom." John McCain is a Bush extension so I ask- What choice is there? I will vote and write in Ron Paul!

Posted by: FED UP LONG ISLANDER | October 20, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Who do you thin won the last debate?
Watch Video http://www.frizle.com

Posted by: Roverfind | October 21, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Truth, I forgot that Rolling Stone was a reliable news source. They must have all the facts. Where else can you find an article about politics and Britney Spears.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2008 3:59 AM | Report abuse

Don't like your job?
Vote for Obama!
He'll steal from the rich and give to the poor! He's a modern day Robin Hood.
Don't strive to make it as a small business owner, just strive to make enough to pay the bills and Obama will pay the rest.
Or just quit your job. Not only will you not pay taxes, but Obama will pay you!

Posted by: Robin Hood Obama | October 22, 2008 4:18 AM | Report abuse

Democrats for John McCain and Sarah Palin in 2008

Posted by: Heather | October 22, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Ok, Don't bother to investigate for yourself. Believe what you're told. Be a good little citizen. Oh, I forgot to mention that Rolling Stone isn't a tabloid. You could go watch the award winning documentary called "missing and presumed dead" But you don't want to know the truth about your hero. Go back to Star magazine, "professional" wrestling and beer. Your buddy McCain will be there with you cheering Brittany on.

Posted by: Truth | October 22, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

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