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Posted at 11:26 AM ET, 10/ 6/2008

McCain fudges his Navy record

By Michael Dobbs


Wreckage of McCain plane, Hanoi, October 1967.

"I crashed a plane in Corpus Christi Bay one Saturday morning. The engine quit while I was practicing landings...I took a few painkillers and hit the sack to rest my aching back for a few hours....I was out carousing, injured back and all, later that evening.
--John McCain, "Faith of My Fathers."

Controversy has surrounded a series of crashes involving planes piloted by John McCain while serving in the U.S. Navy. In his autobiography, the Republican presidential candidate maintained that a couple of the accidents were caused by engine failure. But an official investigation by the Naval Aviation Safety Center makes clear that the first accident, in March 1960, was caused exclusively by pilot error.

The Facts

During the course of his flying career with the U.S. Navy, John McCain was involved in at least five major mishaps or crashes involving his plane. The most dramatic incidents occurred in 1967. He barely escaped with his life after a missile exploded aboard an aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, in July of that year, killing 134 of his fellow crew members. In October, McCain was shot down over Vietnam by a surface-to-air missile.

U.S. Navy records make clear that no blame can be attached to McCain for either of these incidents. McCain was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on his return from Vietnam and cited for his "superb airmanship" in the abortive raid on the power plant in Hanoi that ended with his capture and imprisonment by the North Vietnamese.

Mystery has surrounded the precise circumstances of the three earlier incidents, and particularly an accident on March 12, 1960, while McCain was still in flight school at Corpus Christi in Texas. The McCain campaign has either ignored or failed to respond to requests by The Washington Post and other news organizations for the release of the candidate's full military records, which could shed light on the accidents and the pilot's personal involvement.

The official Navy report into the Corpus Christi accident on March 12, 1960, concludes that the AD-6 Skyraider trainer crashed because McCain failed to "maintain an airspeed above the stall speed." It attributed the accident to "the preoccupation of the pilot coupled with a power setting too low to maintain level flight." The single-engine prop plane sank to the bottom of Corpus Christi Bay. McCain was rescued by a helicopter after swimming to the surface.

The accident report excluded a series of other possible factors, including engine failure and disorientation of the pilot due to vertigo. It recorded pilot error as "the sole contributing factor" to the accident. A copy of the report was obtained by The Washington Post from the Democratic National Committee, which conducted research at the Naval Historical Center in Washington. McCain's responsibility for the accident was first reported by the Los Angeles Times here.

McCain had another accident with a T-2 trainer jet in November 1965, while flying between New York City and Norfolk, Va. The Naval Aviation Safety Center was unable to determine the precise cause of the accident or the degree of pilot error. McCain wrote later that his engine "flamed out" and he had to eject.

In his autobiography, McCain recalls another mishap around December 1961 when "I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident." He landed his Skyraider back on the USS Intrepid after the incident, which does not appear to have triggered a safety investigation.

The Pinocchio Test

McCain's claim that he crashed into Corpus Christi Bay in December 1960 after his "engine quit" is a considerable stretch. U.S. Navy Safety records make clear that the plane crashed because his power setting was too low and he was failing to pay sufficient attention to his landing pattern.

(About our rating scale.)

By Michael Dobbs  | October 6, 2008; 11:26 AM ET
Categories:  2 Pinocchios, Candidate Record, Candidate Watch  
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Next: Second Presidential Debate: Nashville

Comments

"True only in the most technical sense" gets McCain two Pinocchios, same as outright lies for Obama or Biden. Interesting.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

So he crashed a few planes, and failed to become an Admiral cutting off a line of Admirals back to his grandfather...that does not mean he cannot take us lower, that he cannot further screw up our economy and entire way of life with his myopic, selfish, out-of-touch views and misunderstandings about the fundamentals of our economy - BTW 'friends' even our workforce is weak, weaker than in decades -so vote McSame if you like that it is mortifying to claim American citizenship on the world front. KeatingFive/Idiot Winker '08!

Posted by: Mike | October 6, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

...So, 40 year old history is now news....The Vietnam War as a travesty in this nation back then, so when the RNC/GOP lie machine are unable to talk about the real problems that need to be discussed, economy, health care, war, unemployment, aids, they come up with this crapola....

peeeuuu Palin should keep her idiotic and repetitive mouth shut...with her Caribou Barbie pull string in her back....

What about news from just 2 weeks ago....

Katie: You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia as part as your foreign policy experience, what do you mean by that?

Sarah: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side... the land... uhh boundary... that we have with uhhh Canada. It it it's fff-funny that a comment like that was uh kind of made to...... uhh... character.......uhh......I don't know.....you know.......reporters...

Katie: Mocked?

Sarah: Yeah, mocked. I guess that's the word. Yeah. umm....

Katie: Well, explain to why that enhances your foreign policy credentials?

Sarah: Well, it certainly does. Because our......our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They are in the state that I am the executive of.

Katie: Have you ever been in an negotiations for example with the Russians

Sarah: We have trade missions back and forth we... we... It's very important when you even consider nation security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and and uh comes into the a a a air space of the United States of America wh wh where do they go? It's Alaska, it's just right over the border. It it is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that.... an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there they are right next to umm our state.

....What about the Keating five in 1988 20-year-old story when McCaint was 52...

The story may be old, but it's recently become surprisingly relevant to current events -- we are, after all, talking about a scandal involving major bank failures, financial fraud and greed, and political ineptitude.

There is history repeating itself 20 years later....

McCaint is running with a message about his ability to "reform" both DC and Wall Street record.

I agree with Jack Cafferty at CNN and his take on that CBS Interview...

Watch that report @
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

McCaint is no hero...but peeeuuu Palin is a hero sandwich...full of old baloney
.......and a witch doctor in her closet

Posted by: AlexP1 | October 6, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

>Give me a break. Where is the lie? When you stall an engine is shuts down or quits. The liberal media needs to get a life on this one.

Posted by: Semper Paratus | October 6, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

The engine failed when it hit the water; therefore, to attribute the crash to engine failure IS an outright lie and there is really no way around that fact.

Posted by: SaraV | October 6, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

What Semper and even the article's author do not understand is that stalling a plane has nothing to do with the engine. It has to do with the angle of attack of the wings being too high to maintain lift. This can be done full power (departure stall) or with reduced/no power (approach stall). From a pilot's point of view, stalls, both avoiding and recovering from them, should be mastered before a pilot solos.

Posted by: GA Pilot | October 6, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

AN AIRCRAFT STALL IS NOT AN ENGINE STALL!Airflow was disrupted over the wings causing a loss of lift. It happens when a pilot fails to keep power setting at a high enough level and airspeed falls below the stall speed. The engine does not stop, just the planes ability to stay in the air. This is due to a lack of situational awareness by the pilot.

Posted by: Flyer 72 | October 6, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Yo-Semper Paratus, this is what we refer to as "a lie of omission". It is an area of particular specialty for John McCain. Interesting to note his apparent full disclosure on the incident in Spain: "My daredevil clowning...". Come to think of it, maybe he wasn't a daredevil at all. Maybe (sounds like) he just wasn't a very good pilot. Too bad, daredevil sounds so macho. Hmmm...5th from the bottom in in graduating class, doesn't understand economics very well...vote Obama.

Posted by: Dave | October 6, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

McCain's statement ('engine stalled') appears to be an outright falsehood. As pointed out by other pilots, stalling involves the wing failing to generate lift, and has nothing to do with the engine.

Posted by: Pilot | October 6, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Now maybe if he actually got medals for crashing planes then questioning his military record would be out of bounds. Kind of like John Kerry, who actually led men in combat. Did McCain ever lead men in anything?

He survived his own recklessness. I'm not sure America would.

Posted by: thebob.bob | October 6, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

He's been bullshi**ing America for most of his life. He began his life after Vietnam as a lobbist for The Navy. His job was to sell; to get more money for The Navy. In politics, John McCain loves do do battle with anyone and everyone. McCain is addicted to conflict the way Patton was addicted to war.

War is big business. The last great Republican warned us about an industry who will profit from war and for Americans to be very concerned about, occurred in his last address as President. It was not so much a final address, as it was a prophetic warning to our country. Ronald Reagan was not the big GOP hero.

The last great Republican was Dwight D Eisenhower.

Posted by: LiarLiarPantsonFire | October 6, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

actually his 'record' , aside from 19 of over 600 pages , hasn't been released.

but this is an eyeopener as to why it wouldn't be.

Luck Of The Admiral's Son Not For "Grunts"

When two U.S. Army enlisted men were captured by the Viet Cong in 1963, they were plunged into an ordeal that would prove to be a relentless trial of body and spirit by torture. Once they were finally freed, however, their trials began all over again, when their statements critical of the U. S. Vietnam policy landed them in a military court facing a capital offense for violating the military Code of Conduct by "aiding the enemy."

But, if your name is John McCain and your father and grandfather were famous admirals, violating the Code of Conduct by "aiding the enemy" translates into fodder for a political career, book deals, and adulation bordering on sainthood.

Even though news reports of McCain for collaborating with the enemy continued from the time he was captured in 1967 through 1970, the Navy never considered prosecution as an option.

Instead, Pentagon pencil pushers chose a political spin that lifted McCain, the former POW turned U.S. Senator, up to a glorified pedestal where he sprouted a halo and wings and became America's "POW-hero" and today a presidential candidate.

No such luck for the two lowly "grunts."

http://www.usvetdsp.com/smith_mc.htm

Posted by: ripley | October 6, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

he said "i crashed a plane" - that is hardly passing the buck

the fact is the engine did quit (that is a synonym for stall)

what a reach !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how about obama's broken pledge regarding campaign finance ? that is not a reach

how about obama's racist commercials in spanish

how about obama's lies about the failures of the housing market - his fingerprints are all over it - why can he not take accountability
lies of OBAMA;

1) broke HIS OWN pledge to finance campaign ethically
2) playing race card filled with race-baiting lies in spanish-speaking ads (100 times worse than anything seen before)
3) pretending palin did no reforming in Alaska
4) lying about demoCRITES being true cause of housing crisis (he took SO much money from fannie/freddie)
5) lying about his record with Israel
6) Lying about his prior positions on late-term abortions
7) lying about john mccain's record - an honorable American hero
8) lying about his tax reform plan - how can you decrease taxes for 95% of Americans when 30% are not even paying income tax ???
9) lying about the 250,000 dollars threshold to increase taxes - that's not individual income - it is family income (see the fine print)
10) lying about his own prior positions on the surge in Iraq

isn't lie number one by itself enough to make you ask, "WHO IS THIS BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA AND WHERE IS HE GETTING ALL OF THIS MONEY" ??????

Posted by: jothemedicaldoctor | October 6, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

at www.rollingstone.com
Make-Believe Maverick
A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty
By TIM DICKINSON
"Why are you going to the Middle East?" McCain asks, dismissively.
"It's a place we're probably going to have some problems," Dramesi says.
"Why? Where are you going to, John?"
"Oh, I'm going to Rio."
"What the hell are you going to Rio for?"
McCain, a married father of three, shrugs.
"I got a better chance of getting laid."
Dramesi, who went on to serve as chief war planner for U.S. Air Forces in Europe and commander of a wing of the Strategic Air Command, was not surprised. "McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man," Dramesi says today. "But he's still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in."
This is the story of the real John McCain, the one who has been hiding in plain sight.
This, of course, is not the story McCain tells about himself. Few politicians have so actively, or successfully, crafted their own myth of greatness.

Posted by: LiarLiarPantsonFire | October 6, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

According to a new Poll, McCain/Palin is not the most desirable republican ticket, Huckabee/Palin would be the most desirable GOP ticket See Poll results at
http://www.mccanes.com/watchdebatevp.html

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

1962 was 46 years ago! This happened 46 years ago as a young pilot in training - hello! Is this all you've got as news - something that happened nearly 50 years ago??

Hell, if the guy is really as bad as some try to make him out to be - simply for political reasons - consider this - when the Vietnamese found out who his father was they offered to release him - if he is so bad do you think he would actually choose to stay in a hell hole, tortured on a near daily basis for 5 1/2 years just because of some Navy code of honor?

Whether you like him or not you have to acknowledge that took incredible strength of character.

Journalistic integrity is no longer a standard that is subscribed to or even cared about. THIS is what upsets me. The complete media bias toward Obama is beyond the pale.

Posted by: V. Benefield | October 6, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Did John McCain Start The USS Forrestal Fire?

Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his plane.

http://judicialinc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm

Posted by: McCain: War hero or TRAITOR? | October 6, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

So we know what's going on with McCain. I followed Obama's campaign since 1/08,I did not releaized how distracted I was to his smooth talk and style that I forgot what is important.As of yesterday I changed my vote to a McCain/Palin ticket and have so far convinced 11 members of my family to do so also. After viewing Hennity last nigth I woke up because I really don't know who Obama is!Reality check for me.What is Obama hiding? I would have defended him up until yesterday but I now have this erie feeling that Obama is not the one to run this country. I want to feel safe.I hope more people see this Hennity Special and also do a reality check.

Posted by: Ria | October 6, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Come on, McCain was a rookie pilot and just forgot that he had to maintain flying speed.

He survived the accident because of his unbelievable bravery and flying skill! Most pilots would have killed themselves after making a mistake like that. But not McCain! He skillfully flew into the water and swam away while his plane sank!

True, he did say that the engine failed, which is not even technically true. The single cause was pilot error. McCain just forgot the result of the accident board. He forgets lots of stuff these days.

Did I mention he was a POW?

Anyway, this is exactly the kind of leadership this country needs. Screw up, crash the plane, swim away, and lie about it later.

A lot like his approach to the economy & regulation, isn't it?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

The question here is if we should be led by a naval graduate who was the 2nd to last out of a class of almost 800.

Posted by: indy s. | October 6, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the post above about the Rolling Stone article on McCain - it was nothing more than a 'hit' piece on McCain.

Here are a few facts:

Jann Werner owns Rolling Stone, lives in San Francisco and is one of the most left-leaning liberals on the planet. Hence the Obama fit with Jann Werner.

Rolling Stone has been in the tank with Obama since he began his run - they have had several articles that are so - pro-Obama that one quickly understands that Werner has not only drank the Obama kool-aid - he has become Obama's apostle - spreading the messiah's message!

Rollingstone also did several hit pieces on Hillary when she was running against Obama for the Dem. nomination. No journalistic integrity in this article - that's for certain.

There are several complete lies about McCain in this RS article - bordering on slander.

Posted by: V. Benefield | October 6, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

talk about your swiftboating

obamiden worshippers make swiftboaters look like angels

however, you do not have to stretch things to proved obama a FRAUD

lies of OBAMA;

1) broke HIS OWN pledge to finance campaign ethically
2) playing race card filled with race-baiting lies in spanish-speaking ads (100 times worse than anything seen before)
3) pretending palin did no reforming in Alaska
4) lying about demoCRITES being true cause of housing crisis (he took SO much money from fannie/freddie)
5) lying about his record with Israel
6) Lying about his prior positions on late-term abortions
7) lying about john mccain's record - an honorable American hero
8) lying about his tax reform plan - how can you decrease taxes for 95% of Americans when 30% are not even paying income tax ???
9) lying about the 250,000 dollars threshold to increase taxes - that's not individual income - it is family income (see the fine print)
10) lying about his own prior positions on the surge in Iraq


Posted by: jothemedicaldoctor | October 6, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Back in the Sixties, Naval Aviation was much more tolerant of errors, even those caused by "flat-hatting" (showing-off). These days, if a Naval Aviator were to lose a plane due to pilot error, the flyer would likely lose his/her "wings"; i.e. get kicked out of naval aviation and have to finish the active duty commitment elsewhere in the Navy. Crashing three planes is unheard of now. Also, flying into power lines because of "daredevil clowining" would likely result in court-martial. These days, John McCain would have never made it to the rank of Lieutenant, much less command a squadron.
In addition to McCain fudging (lying?) about his first mishap, I am concerned about another aspect of this article. The fact that he caused at least two mishaps due to judgement errors, and might have been shot down in Vietnam because he refused to react to warnings of an inbound surface-to-air missile (according to other statements by McCain), shows that he is prone to make risky judgements and bad snap decisions. Yes, these crashes happened long ago, but some of McCain's more recent snap-decisions show that he is still prone to react rather than think. His choice of VP candidate, decision to postpone his campaign and ride in to DC on his white charger to rescue the bailout plan, and reflexive judgement on the Russo-Georgian War ("We are all Georgians now") all appear to show that he is still impetuous, reacting by his gut instincts and prone to take risks without examining the cost benefits or full consequences.
Is this the temperament we want or need in a President? We saw this same sort of impetuousness and unwillingness to think through decisions in our current administration over the last 8 years. Do we really want more of the same? Not me. This retired naval aviator (who's still in government service) is voting for someone who shows better judgment; Obama.

Posted by: Ex-Navy Pilot | October 6, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

John McShame,

This is your Uncle Sam I want payment for the 5 planes you've crashed.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

It's fairly obvious McCain's family naval history got his flight mistakes swept under the rug; usually if you crash a plane during training, that's it, you're grounded. Not McCain, the fair haired son of admirals, though! He gets excuses made for him right up to the point he's shot down, captured and then divulges information to the enemy. Some are even still making excuses for him, too!

Posted by: Bendal | October 6, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

fake JakeD at 1:02 PM

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

McCain sure loves being a celebrity! A real folk style hero! It's amazing how far one can go in the military when you get special treatment. I wonder how many other pilots were allowed to crash three planes and still keep their wings. Not many, I guarantee. McCain is guilty of doing what he's always done - lying and hiding truths to get what he wants. This guy has voted consistently against the working class. You should read what the labor unions say about his appalling record. Anyway, good luck to all the McCain supporters. This is likely the end of the old goat's political career. Thankfully.

Posted by: Den Gran | October 6, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Simple fact: McCain has proven himself an honorable man. Obama has some questionable behavior patterns. I would trust McCain based on his past, over Obama who does not understand or embrace his own past.

Posted by: retired-naval aviator | October 6, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

fake JakeD at 1:07 PM

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Stalling a plane has nothing to do with the engine, it's flying to slow to keep air flowing over the wing properly. It's a rookie mistake.

It's not important only insomuch as McCain is being touted as having 'fighter pilot' instincts by the media. First he was a bomber pilot, not a fighter pilot. Second he was a bad bomber pilot having crashed more planes than anyone should have been able to get away with. Third, his POW time was directly a result of failing his mission.

All it shows is that the notion his judgement isn't just bad now, it's always been bad. His snap decisions aren't good ones.

Posted by: John | October 6, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

difference between obama and mccain - oh-bama never makes a mistake he'll admit to

- to the jackass demanding payment for the planes damaged ; I'd say Senator McCain's five years in Hanoi more than pays that price

lies of OBAMA;

1) broke HIS OWN pledge to finance campaign ethically
2) playing race card filled with race-baiting lies in spanish-speaking ads (100 times worse than anything seen before)
3) pretending palin did no reforming in Alaska
4) lying about demoCRITES being true cause of housing crisis (he took SO much money from fannie/freddie)
5) lying about his record with Israel
6) Lying about his prior positions on late-term abortions
7) lying about john mccain's record - an honorable American hero
8) lying about his tax reform plan - how can you decrease taxes for 95% of Americans when 30% are not even paying income tax ???
9) lying about the 250,000 dollars threshold to increase taxes - that's not individual income - it is family income (see the fine print)
10) lying about his own prior positions on the surge in Iraq

isn't lie number one by itself enough to make you ask ..............

......."WHO IS THIS BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, WHY DOES HE LIE SO MUCH AND WHERE IS HE GETTING ALL OF THIS FREAKING MONEY" ??????

Posted by: jothemedicaldoctor | October 6, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Can't wait for comment registration (as well as "fair and balanced" coverage of BOTH candidates) to come back to the Fact Checker too.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Jothemedicaldoctor, read the earlier posts again. In the context of the official Navy report, "stall" is in no way synonymous with the engine quitting - it's an entirely different concept. If you're a medical doctor you should understand the concept of terminology that has a different meaning in a technical context than it does in common usage. No one in aviation would ever confuse the term "stall" with engine failure. Had the Navy meant that the engine had quit, they would have explicitly said that, and would not have used the terminology that they did. As others have already said, in a plane, a stall refers to the wings' ability to generate lift, and that is entirely consistent with the further statement by the Navy that he failed to maintain adequate power (the very thing that causes a stall). It's the pilot's version of texting while driving and running off the road, and is, as the Navy report says, entirely pilot error. In other words, McCain flat-out lied.

Posted by: Bob | October 6, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

">Give me a break. Where is the lie? When you stall an engine is shuts down or quits. The liberal media needs to get a life on this one.

Posted by: Semper Paratus | October 6, 2008 12:29 PM"
--
The distinction is one is caused by mechanical failure due to poor workmanship etc., the other is due to "Pilot Error" in other words, the plane would not have crashed unless the pilot screwed up.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I just want to point out that from McCain's perspective, a novice pilot at the time, his stalling the aircraft might have felt like engine failure. I am not a pilot, but I would think that when an aircraft goes into a stall, it loses lift and therefore could feel like a loss of engine power.

The real question on integrity would be whether McCain's story in his book was any different from his story at the time of the investigation. There are plenty of instances where eye-witnesses are wrong and many of us have ridden amusement rides designed to make us "feel" like we're moving, even when we're not.

Perhaps the man was disoriented, but to his senses, he had engine failure.

By the way, I think that there is something really wrong with this country when individuals are allowed to make public jabs through the media and not even post their names.

Posted by: Francis Moss | October 6, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"A copy of the report was obtained by The Washington Post from the Democratic National Committee" ... perhaps the DNC could furnish us BHO's military records? Oh that's right, Barack was too busy trying to get on the inside track with the Chicago democratic machine to serve his country after college

Posted by: Pico | October 6, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Bob:

What part of "I crashed a plane ..." don't you understand? McCain has never denied it was his sole fault.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

SarahV...Idiot!
AlexP1...Idiot!
Dave...BIG Idiot!!
Den Gran..BIGGEST Idiot!!!
..Dennys, you said the word "union". Hey Einstein, all unions vote Dem. Heck yes they are going to downtalk McCain. DUHHH. All Rhetoric, but whatever.

The joke is on all you Liberal Duma$$es.. when Obama gets in and proves in many ways he doesn't know squat, so much so he has to be relieved because the Dems in office will see the truth and ask him to step down. THEY all you idiot Libs will eat crow....not really, you'll STILL be to stupid to see the Egg on your Faces, you'll find someone else to blame for his failure.

Vote Obama, Ruin this Country

Posted by: ChiefRoss | October 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Francis Moss:

Agreed, and I suspect comment registration will return to the Fact Checker sooner or later.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

All of you anti-McCain critics should be ashamed of yourselves - this man risked his life for us and passed on special treatment as a prisoner. What have you ever done that compares to this? Go move to Cuba you hypocrites.

Posted by: realitycheck | October 6, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Here's a solution: President McCain will not be allowed to fly Air Force One.

Posted by: Hil | October 6, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to the pilots who have posted here for explaining the difference between engine failure and a stall. I have revised the post accordingly.

Posted by: The Fact Checker | October 6, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"I changed my vote to a McCain/Palin ticket and have so far convinced 11 members of my family to do so also"
-----
I hope you and your 11 family members have fun in the losers column.

"After viewing Hennity last nigth I woke up"
"I hope more people see this Hennity Special and also do a reality check."
Posted by: Ria | October 6, 2008 12:57 PM
---
hahahahaahahaha...if that's where you go for reality you may as well be dropping acid.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree 100% w/Benefield on this one....no one is perfect and certainly no politician fits that category. McCain is a far better choice with honor given his accomplishments in the Military, dedication to his country, and the main point - no strings attached to any given lobby or firm. Obama is full of waffled comments and has been sleeping with lobbyists since the very day he started this path changing his direction with every poll. Obama's lack of experience will cause issues down the road as we're facing some of the most difficult times in U.S. History....let's stop examining the silly non-issues and look forward to what really counts....how he reported an aircraft incident nearly 50 years ago? -and the media making comments about a field they are 100% clueless about (stall-spin aerodynamics)? Spells media control of the non-facts to me once again! Maybe we should be putting a lie-check on American media! Check the real facts and balance the real issues that face us folks - and wake up! My vote is with McCain....

Posted by: Media liars everywhere | October 6, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

The Fact Checker at 1:26 PM:

Could you please use "strikethrough" or some other method to make it clear what you change next time?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

We could do worse than McCain. There were four people below him in his graduating class.

Posted by: Could do worse | October 6, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

See Actor Jon Voight, Go nuts on Obama. Assuses him of all kinds of stuff. He was on fox last night, He went into a rant http://www.huckabeeshow.com

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

McCain's military records have to be taken with a grain of salt. With a father and grand father being admirals any fault of his would have been swept under the rug by his superiors. This idiot who caused so much damage to our economy during the 80s with his masterminding the Lincoln savings and loan scandal with Keating and now with his help in deregulating the banks should not be allowed anywhere near the white house.

Posted by: Jason | October 6, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

If I am correct, the courts ruled a couple of years ago on behalf of a candidate that
was lying about her opponent, that it was ok to lie! I guess that is why John McCain
is geeting away with lying while out on his
straight talk, 100% truth campaign!

Posted by: Ronald Jean | October 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

ChiefRoss whined: The joke is on all you Liberal Duma$$es..
_____________________

It's "dumba$$", dumba$$...

Posted by: vmunikoti | October 6, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

McCain is exactly like George W Bush. Both are born losers and constant failures who are trying to one-up their genuinely talented fathers...who they hate.

Posted by: wilder5121 | October 6, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

An accident 48 years ago? Oblahma sycophants know no reason.

Posted by: NOBAMA | October 6, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I'll get excited about this as soon as everyone gets a chance to see ALL of Obama's records from Columbia & Harvard!!

It is VERY worrisom that the first Black President of the Harvard Law Review finds it necessary to completly hide his record while attending Harvard. To have been granted such an honorable position I would expect that Obama would have had a very remarkable record that he would be proud of. The fact that they have kept his Harvard records and his Columbia records secret only makes me worry more about what kind of man Obama really is. What was Obama doing or writing that he is so worried about the public seeing?

Obama has no real record of accomplishments except the Law Review and he hides his most relevant records from those college days.

We really know nothing about Obama except he is half-white, half black and he speaks well. But the media will not even look into Obama's "recent" past - but they will go back 40+ years to try and dig up dirt on McCain or fly 30 lawyers into Alaska to dig up dirt on Palin and just to see if you really can see Russia from Alaska as Palin said! The Media are acting more like Russia's state run Pravda - propaganda all the time

This REALLY scares me!

Posted by: MikeC | October 6, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Par for the course, however, since it seems that you removed the erroneous "Fact Check" about the CTBT but never bothered to admit that it was wrong. Very poor form! If you're going to pretend to be arbitrators of the facts, you have to admit when you are occasionally incorrect -- especially after the damage has been done -- unless you really are in the tank for Obama?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I think so many of you are missing the point here. While McCain is not flawless, he is an American hero, a man of dignity and honor. Being pugnacious isn't a flaw in politics, since you have to be tenacious and have a thick skin as well as being pugnacious when you have to be. I like a fighter....McCain might not be as pretty as Obama, but I would trust my life that this man would do whatever he needed to do to protect my civil rights, my American rights and my safety in these turbulent times. The House has been controlled by Democrats for the past 2 years and so is the Congress...why didn't congress do anything about the economy up until now..no red flags? McCain wanted oversight of Freddie and Fannie and more controls back in 2005, Barney Frank said and I am paraphrasing this here kids.."Everything is fine, we are giving loans to people no matter what their credit or ability to pay"

Obama will raise your taxes, he will socialize America. If thats what you really want then you probably deserve what you are going to get if Obama wins.

Posted by: Jamie | October 6, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

McCain is a f+++++++++kup.

Posted by: palinhater | October 6, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone even read the part where he crashed in Corpus Christy WHILE IN FLIGHT SCHOOL!!! He never claimed to be the best pilot in the Navy... In any case, would you write a book about yourself and tell everyone in the world you made a bonehead mistake? There are plenty of pilots out there who have crashed multiple times. The Vietnam shoot down could have happened to anyone. What you all haven't mentioned here is how during his captivity in Vietnam, he was offered free passage back home because of his father and he declined and insisted his injured buddies go first. I would like to see how many of you would do that whilst being beaten and tortured.

Posted by: razor | October 6, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

BTW, if Obama loses this election he can work as a translator for the US government..since he probably speaks fluent Arabic.

Posted by: Jamie | October 6, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

One more thing! Why does the media continue to use words like; fudge, spin,
stretch the truth. Why not be honest and
call things what they are, maybe "LYING"
would be the best definition. This is a
very important election and what you see
done on the campaign trail will be done even more in office, as has been proven in the past!

Posted by: Ronald Jean | October 6, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Becoming a fighter pilot is very competitive. For someone who was 5th from the bottom of his class, i assume that his name is the only reason he got the job.
If it weren't for daddy, we would have never heard of him.

Posted by: scared | October 6, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how many of the commentators in this blog are in "blue" states, you know, the states with the largest burst of the mortgage bubble? How many of you jackasses use your house like an ATM machine, acquiring lower and different mortgages to finance your love of the "good things in life because you deserve it." California is bankrupt. House prices are plummeting. Wall Street banks created new mortgage "products" that pandered to Community Reinvestment Act that for years promoted loans to people who could not really afford them and that began with Jimmy Carter and was fostered by Clinton and Barney Frank as late as 2005. Bush touted "a home for every American" in his 2003 State of the Union Address that now sounds like "a chicken in every pot." His plan for his war was to keep the home front "shopping" to distract us from the horror his war. That included shopping for houses we could not afford. Democrats and Republicans can both take a bow for the mess. But Americans are all flocking to Obama to get them out of it. Obama and Biden will look like Laurel and Hardy in a year if they get elected. Mc Cain and Palin stand a slight chance of maintaining credibility later because they are not making promises they cannot keep.

Posted by: mpmmylove | October 6, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"1962 was 46 years ago! This happened 46 years ago as a young pilot in training - hello! Is this all you've got as news - something that happened nearly 50 years ago??"--V. Benefield 12:51 PM
------------------------------------
Several comments on the post above:
1) If Kerry's Vietnam record was pertinent to the 2004 election and McCain's time as POW is pertinent to this year's election, then McCain's flying record is also germaine.
2) McCain's service while POW was truly admirable, and those who try to slander McCain due to statements he made under torture don't listen to what his fellow POW's say about his dedication and loyalty to his comrades and country. I got a miniscule taste of POW life during Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape training, and my hat is off to McCain for serving honorably during those years of hell. However, McCain's character is not just reflected by his time in that prison hell, but also by his actions before and after Vietnam. He shows a proclivity to take undue risk and to react without thinking things through. No amount of praise for McCain's POW record should cover for his less than stellar judgment over the rest of his life.
3) So "the media" is all in the tank for Obama? Are you saying Fox News, the Washington Times and the Wall Street Journal, to name just a couple of MSM outlets, are for Obama? Okay, look at CNN. Is Glenn Beck an Obama fan? How about Rollins, Castellano (sp?) and all the other conservative analysts on CNN? How about David Brooks and William Kristol at the New York Times? Do they all support Obama? The MSM does a lot better job balancing their reporting than you believe. It's convenient to blame the MSM for reporting on facts and opinions you don't want to hear, but it really doesn't do any good to shoot the messenger.

Posted by: Ex-Navy Pilot | October 6, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

From the same book, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain acknowledged that his sensors were sounding the alert that a missile was on course yet he failed to take any action to avoid it ("jink around it"). He was practically the anchorman at Annapolis and his flying shows just how martially incompetent he truly is.

Re: the Forrestal, only one other Zuni missle is on the web as a misfire and, though the nearest hundred plus witnesses were killed by the two 1,000 pound bombs McCain stupidly and ineptly released on the deck as HE scambled to safety from his cockpit, his location and propensities suggest he "wet-started" his plane, in "hotdog" fashion, and cooked-off the Zuni on the F4 directly behind him, sparking the conflagration that almost sank the aircraft carrier.

The telling tale is that he was the only uninjured to be immediately transferred to the Oriskany, suggesting had he stayed on board he would then have met the doom he nearly found for himself throwing away his jet over Hanoi.

He is an idiot and a betrayer. A serial adulterer against the faithful wife who waited for him, now married to the trollop daughter of an Organized Crime frontman.

His trailer trash moron of a false prophet running mate is just more of the same Babylon Risen.

Posted by: Will Jones - Atlanta | October 6, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

McCain failed to "maintain an airspeed above the stall speed." It attributed the accident to "the preoccupation of the pilot coupled with a power setting too low to maintain level flight."

McCain's plane crashed due to pilot error - his, McCain's error. He stalled the plane. Any other explanation is a lie. Do we really want the country to be run by a this lying, plane-crashing, bottom of his classer?

Posted by: lorax2 | October 6, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

McCain, who actually brags that he graduated near last in his class, also lied about the little parable he felt necessary to feed his "base" (base indeed) of hypochristians, evilgelicals and talibangelists. You recall, the tale, previous to the late 90's unheard, about the prison guard drawing a cross with his foot in the dirt? Seems McCain was, understandably, a big fan of the recently departed russian author Alexander Solzenitzen who spent years in a soviet gulag. It was from one of that authors books that the story originated.

I was of the mind then and am still that, not only was the Vietnam War McCain still wants to fight illegal, but that those who flew high above 3rd world cilvilian populations dropping napalm were cowards. Does anyone dare argue that war, which cost over a million asian lives and over 55,000 american lives was justified?

John McCain is a sick man. He and John Glenn are the only 2 of the Keating 5 who escaped justice. The only reason was their "hero" status. This guy, if he ever had a soul, has obviously sold it and he will say any-damn-thing to satiate what his autobiography states is compulsion to be president....his "personal ambition."

Send him into retirement, he's a 100 millionare. Let's watch him, in his senility, attempt to locate one of his 7 or so homes.

Posted by: Richard | October 6, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

One last thing, Mr. Dobbs, pertains to the "Featured Item" that has been up regarding McCain's "supposed" war on earmarks -- I've already commented on the lack of merits on that thread -- since it's been up for months, you think maybe you could change it to a "Featured Item" on Obama or Biden? Would that be too much to ask for SOME modicum of balanced coverage?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Want to read McCains record, then read this and watch all the video.


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

Posted by: Larry the cable guy | October 6, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

O' my God, McCain had a at fault accident or two. Thank God he survived them.

When McCain socialized with terrorist give me a call.

The Navy could have kicked him out of flight training, but obviously they did not think McCain's actions were that serious. Students make mistakes weather they fly jets or drive cars.

If this is the worst thing you can reveal about McCain then either he has lead an exceptional life or you are a sorry reporter. Don't you have some real work to do. Michael Dobbs you need to find a real job where you can do something significant. Like serve your country, your state or your community.

Posted by: truth1 | October 6, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Ronald Jean:

McCain is not lying -- unlike you -- unless you really don't understand what "technically true" means?

Ex-Navy Pilot:

Those are the exceptions that prove the rule. Every once in a blue moon, Dobbs has a "Fact Checker" on Biden or Obama (usually to make excuses for them). That's not FAIR AND BALANCED, is it? As for shooting the messenger, I could care less. If McCain and Palin couldn't withstand the MSM, they wouldn't be ready for Russia or Iran, that's for sure.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Thank God that most democrats are too stoned or lazy to vote......

Posted by: Is this the DNC website | October 6, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

This is very old news that most informed readers have come across in years past. When you figure that academic success is sometimes a predictor of real life success, this story isn't even surprising. McCain was almost the "anchor man" at the Naval Academy, in other words was graduated close to the bottom of his class. He wasn't the brightest star back then and given his multiple jet crashes he wasn't the best navy pilot. He wasn't destined for a military career which is why many senior military leaders today (while respecting his service) do not think he has the strategic level thinking or discipline to lead the military. Also, if anyone looks at his voting record you'll notice that he seldom voted for increasing veterans benefits or any sort. He is the odd man out among his fellow veterans turned politicians (republicans and democrats), it I'm surprised that the press doesn't bring this up since it is more substantive than the fact that he was a lousy pilot.

Posted by: G. Willikers | October 6, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Mccain betrayed his country !!!! and the only reason he refuse to leave Hano Hilton was it would have brought light to that petrayal Mccain colaborated with the enemy signed documents to this effect. This is why only 19 pages was release out of 6oo pages of his military record. So all you Mccain supporters answer me this.Why are you overlooking this fact!!!! If he betrayed his country once he surely will do it again.

Posted by: T.Bone | October 6, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Well, he crashed 5 planes (talk a waste of taxpayer dollars!) and now his campaign is crashing. Watching McCain and Palin slinging mud looks sooo desperate. The problem for McCain/Palin is that time is running out and Obama/Biden are leading in nearly all the polls. On top of that, the Democrats have more money to spend. If you want to help the Republican ticket, buy the web domain SarahSixPack.com and generate some excitement (and cash) for America’s newest GOP star and for her visibly discouraged running mate.

Posted by: Bill | October 6, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

truth1:

Good comments -- Dobbs is "in the tank" for Obama -- I just noticed that has deleted his initial reference to "True in the most technical sense" as well.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

T.Bone and Bill:

I wonder what you would confess to after 5 1/2 years as a POW? Do you also think that Obama raising Keating 5 is "mudslinging"?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

The post by "McCain: War hero or TRAITOR?" asks the question "Did John McCain Start The USS Forrestal Fire?

The answer to this absurd question is "NO".

Read the account in the link below for the real story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

Posted by: old AF mechanic | October 6, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

McCain and Palin do not just stretch the truth; they just outright tell lies, when no lies are necessary. People supporting them....WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR HEADS? You just blame the media for everything negative against McCain and Palin. These 2 have no ethics. It does not matter that John McCain was in training when he crashed some planes. The problem is that he lied about it. Palin lies about seeing Russia from her home in Alaska or stamping out the 'Bridge to Nowhere'. She still allowed the 'Road to Nowhere' be built. McCain tries to tie Barack Obama to people that Barack hardly knew. How many of you went to church and appreciated your pastor, just to find out many years later that he / she was a embezzler, alcoholic or child molester? Chances are that Rev. Wright did not spew negativity every Sunday, but once in a while. Barack saw the good in him, while evil was just below the surface of Jeremiah Wright. You have bad apples in your own families, or as friends, that you still have interaction with. To sum it up...McCain and Palin are a risk that the American people sure can not afford to take. I am sending Barack another donation after I submit this message. Wise up people!

Posted by: RadianChalant | October 6, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Is this the DNC website:

Makes you wonder sometimes. See my posts detailing Dobbs being "in the tank" (like most of the MSM) for Obama. Time to take our country back!

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

">Give me a break. Where is the lie? When you stall an engine is shuts down or quits. The liberal media needs to get a life on this one. "

Uh, buddy, you need to learn about airplanes. He didn't 'stall' the engine, he 'stalled' the plane. Stalling a plane means you have insufficient speed which, in turn, causes a lack of air to go over the wings, resulting in a lack of 'lift'. In case Palin is reading, "lift" is that thang what makes the plane flies. Without sufficient lift, the flight controls lose utility and even if the plane is nose up, it still loses altitude. It can also go into a dive or spin, both of which are only correctable if you have enough altitude and skill to do so.

So, no, it's not at all the truth to say the engine died- that implies that the responsibility lies other than on the pilot. He screwed up. He's been trying to pretend like he didn't. Saying the engine died was like saying that a patient died of cardiac failure without making a note of the knife in their back.

Posted by: ep thorn | October 6, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

McCain dumped his faithful first wife and family after having an affair with the richest blond trophy bimbo in Arizona. Just like spilling his guts to the enemy when he was a POW...he's ALWAYS put "McCain First".

Posted by: wilder5121 | October 6, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

"Pilot Error" seems to summarize Mr. McCain's campaign. The rate at which he has lost previously earned respect over the last months is astounding. Palin's nosedive into negativism is just going to hurt him that much more. What happened to the gentlemen candidate that could have been?

Posted by: Mr. Q. | October 6, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

RadianChalant:

You will have to point out the alleged "lie" because what I read was McCain ADMITTING "I crashed the plane." As for Gov. Palin's alleged lies about seeing Russia from her home (that was actually Tina Fey's quote) or stopping the 'Bridge to Nowhere' (she did tell Congress "Thanks, but no thanks" is September of 2007, regardless of whether she earlier had supported the bridge, kept the money, or allowed the 'Road to Nowhere' be built). Are you really trying to say that Barack HUSSEIN Obama didn't "know" Ayers or Rev. Wright? If I had found out my pastor was a embezzler, alcoholic or child molester, I wouldn't keep sitting in the pew, that's for sure.

As for Obama's donations, I hope you are a U.S. citizen at least?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Source::
A copy of the report was obtained by The Washington Post from the Democratic National Committee, which conducted research at the Naval Historical Center in Washington.

OK...

Posted by: Manetti | October 6, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Let's see, this is the same McCain that wants a smaller government while his family has been at the public teat for four generations?

Posted by: fred | October 6, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"Pilot Error" seems to summarize Mr. McCain's campaign. The rate at which he has lost previously earned respect over the last months is astounding. Palin's nosedive into negativism is just going to hurt him that much more. What happened to the gentlemen candidate that could have been?

Posted by: Mr. Q | October 6, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

The incident on the USS Forrestal was whitewashed at the direction of daddy the Admiral -- McCain "wet-started" his plane, causing the plane behind him to cook it's missiles, as a result of which bombs exploded, men died, and major damage to the USS Forrestal occurred. McCain was the first person evacuated from the ship! Check it out!

Posted by: bodicca | October 6, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

John McCain got himself shot down in Viet Nam because he disobeyed direct orders not to fly into a specific area known for it's heavy concentration of surface to air missiles. According to Naval flight records he was not in hot pursuit, ignored in coming missile warnings and was careless. He would have certainly faced a court-martial for disobeying a direct order from his commander.
His bad judgment got him shot down, captured & tortured. It also cost the taxpayers many millions of dollars to replace the plane he lost. This was the last of a string of planes he had crashed & lost. McCain has continued to lie about his responsibility for the crashes.

This old "maverick" as he often loves to call himself is nothing but a steer - roped, branded & castrated by the religious right. Pathetic and erratic all in one weaselly Republican presidential candidate.

Posted by: Timo | October 6, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

just the fact that this dumb story is on the post, shows how biased this paper and writers are.


Isn't this the paper that also said, "mccain cheated on his wife?"


Posted by: biz owner | October 6, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Everything in this election must be about the truth, therefore, we must take our country back from Ali Mohammad McCain and Osama Bin Palin! My Friends..If they want to play the blame game with silly tactics flavored with racial overtones and list Barack Obama's name with terrorists, muslims, thugs, resko/ayres fibs, anti-hillary accusations, & flag pins; We must demand the following GOP/McCraziac issues come to the forefront and be answered in the media:
~Keating 5 www(dot)KeatingEconomics(dot)com
~Fundamental Deregulator
~Deregulation of Social Security
~Deregulation of HealthCare
~Enron Loophole
~100 Year War Monger & $Trillions$ Spent On Iraqi War
~Vicki Iseman
~Brokaw/McCain Friendship
~Infidelity/Adultery
~Anti-Catholic
~Tax Break Elimination
~Voted Against Equal Pay & Equal Rights For Our Mothers, Sisters, Daughters, Grandmothers, Nieces, Aunts, Wives, & Girlfriends
~Temperament-Erraticsism, Is There A Blood Relation Between McCraziac & Bill-Had-Sex-With-A-Show-Intern-O'Reilly ?
~McCain Campaign Lobbyist ie. Rick Davis & 169 more Lobbyists
~Andrew McCain + Nevada based Silver State Bank
~Andrew McCain + CMKM Diamonds,better known as CMKX
~Palingate/Troopergate Criminal Investigation
~Palin's REV.THOMAS MUTHEE Witchdoctor Video
~Betrayus With A Surge To Nowhere In Iraq
~US Council For World Freedom; Radical, Dangerous & Racist Organization
~Voted Against Veteran Benefits At Home
~4th Stage Cancer
~Anheuser Busch(Budweiser)Cindy Mccain #1 National Debate Sponsor
~*Straight Talk America PAC, *Altria Group, *American Issues Project, *National Campaign Fund, *Vets For Freedom
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www(dot)mccainslobbyists(dot)com

www(dot)mccainsource(dot)com

www(dot)therealmccain(dot)com/butler

www(dot)mudflats(dot)wordpress(dot)com

www(dot)plnewsforum(dot)com/index.php/forums/viewthread/39966

www(dot)phoenixnewtimes(dot)com/1989-11-29/news/mccain-the-most-reprehensible-of-the-keating-five/1

www(dot)rationalrevolution0(dot)tripod(dot)com/war/bush_family_and_the_s(dot)htm

www(dot)republicansexoffenders(dot)com

www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

McCain Campaign Has Strong Ties To Corporate Lobbyists At Center Of Bailout
www(dot)thinkprogress(dot)org/2008/09/22/mccain-campaign-lobbies-bailou

McCain on Special Interest, Lobbyists and DC Sleaze—What you should remember
www(dot)personals(dot)nymag(dot)com/blog/1069/post_78180.html?dcb=personals(dot)nymag(dot)com

Media advance myth of McCain as lobbyist foe
www(dot)mediamatters(dot)org/items/200802260009

the McCAIN BUSH GRAMM foreclosure plan: called BIG BANK BAILOUT (4 more years of BUSH PILLAGE?)
www(dot)miami(dot)craigslist(dot)org/mdc/pol/850631984(dot)html

NOW, IF YOU NEED TO KNOW MORE, PUT "credit default swap + Mccain lobbyists" INTO THE GOOGLE SEARCH BAR
AND YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THE UNETHICAL THEFT THAT MCCAIN HAS PULLED OVER THE EYES OF ALL THE LOW INFORMATION AMERICANS THAT WILL VOTE FOR HIM. IT IS DISGUSTING!

Posted by: Wyatt | October 6, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Hey Benefield: If Ayers (happened when Obama was 8 - aby 40 years ago) is revelent, then why isn't this?

Posted by: repub double standard | October 6, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Vote McCain for four more years of Bush.
McCain's choice of a running-mate says it all. He simply picked a female to get the Hillary vote. They will do anything to stay in-power.

Posted by: FedUpWithThemAll | October 6, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

PANIC TIME for McCain. He's crashing his campaign just like he crashed every plane he ever flew. He's as unstable now as he was then...with a dose of senile dementia thrown in. It's great fun watching all the Republicans who've DESTROYED our country in only eight years now SWEATING and WHINING on the news shows as McCain GOES DOWN IN FLAMES.

Posted by: wilder5121 | October 6, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I served as an officer in the U.S. Army in Vietnam in 1968. In the process I saw a few heroic acts and got to know a few real heroes. The aspect of their character that stood out the most was modesty regarding their acts of heroism. To all of them it was a "just doing my job" kind of thing. I never heard one brag. For most it was difficult, even embarrassing, to talk about what they had done. To a man, they preferred to change the subject.

So I was suspicious of McCain's hero credentials and, after a relatively simple online investigation, confirmed my suspicions. They are a self instigated load of crap.

McCain's military record, from his days as a cadet at Annapolis to his retirement as a Captain twice passed over for an Admiral's star, would have gotten an officer without his family history drummed out of the service. As a cadet he was an undisciplined under achiever. As a pilot he was an inept disaster. As a POW he violated the Code of Conduct by signing a confession to attacking, under orders, civilian targets. When he refused early release he was following orders, not acting heroically.

And his decorations! He never received one for action in combat! He got them because he was a POW and the son and grandson of admirals.

The minute he got home he began to spin his personal history and his lies have served him well politically but the don't make him a hero. They make him an untrustworthy wannabe. They make him a guy who would dump the wife and family who waited faithfully while he was a POW and marry a millionaire's daughter. It can't be said that this was done solely because the ex had outlived her usefulness and the new bride allowed him to exit a failed career and start a new one but you have to wonder. He filed for his candidacy to represent Arizona in the House before he had ever lived there.

I'm not even going to bring up the Keaton scandal or the many stories of his erratic behavior as a Senator but they, too, are a matter of record.

I will, however, say this. Any charge that the press has inordinately favored Obama when this is the first article I have seen that even passes a light brush over these things should now be put to rest.

I believe the press does prefer Obama just as the majority of well informed Americans do but it certainly hasn't led to unfair treatment of McCain. When you compare coverage of his mythical, self written history to the brouhaha over Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezco, etc. one has to conclude that McCain has been treated with kid gloves.

Posted by: David Dial | October 6, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Timo:

JFK and Bush41 lost their military ships as well. Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

57th Dustoff Medivac Vietnam my brother earned -- 5 purple hearts; 2 Air Medals (one with numeral 5); 2 distinguished flying crosses (one with oak leaf cluster); and many others in his short tour. Don't tell me about McCain and his service to country. I don't understand McCain, and I never did get to ask my brother lots of questions -- about war and its purpose when not threatened. He wrote about it and hated it ... He died in the "largest burn hospital" in the world in Japan. My brother was the true hero, hell, McCain won't even release his records for the world to read? Why not? Why not post the s.o.b. records on his campaign site. Any response I get I would be proud to post and talk to anyone. But not McCain.

Posted by: vs | October 6, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

David Dial:

Please (re-)read the post above from Ex-Navy Pilot "McCain's service while POW was truly admirable, and those who try to slander McCain due to statements he made under torture don't listen to what his fellow POW's say about his dedication and loyalty to his comrades and country. I got a miniscule taste of POW life during Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape training, and my hat is off to McCain for serving honorably during those years of hell."

Up until this election (even during the 2000 primary contest), McCain did play down his POW experience, "just doing my job" kind of thing, and never bragged. Unfortunately, most voters didn't even know he was a POW. That's why it is being brought up now.

As for "unfair treatment" at least here at the Fact Checker, perhaps you should read some of the archives.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Reading the gabage written by most of the Obama supporters make me goes WOW! as I am sure, we all know by now that freedom is actually not free. there are some that answered the call and other that thought about answering the call. But it never stop to amazed me that those that talk the most trash, have never did any thing in their life for the love of Country! they have alway claimed their freedom out of the sacrifice of others.

Posted by: Les H. | October 6, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

The truth continues to come out every day. McCain, Palin and their fellow republicans have lied from the get go and continue to lie and make false allegations about the most honest of candidates, Barack Obama. SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!!

Posted by: LKM2 | October 6, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I served as an officer in the U.S. Army in Vietnam in 1968. In the process I saw a few heroic acts and got to know a few real heroes. The aspect of their character that stood out the most was modesty regarding their acts of heroism. To all of them it was a "just doing my job" kind of thing. I never heard one brag. For most it was difficult, even embarrassing, to talk about what they had done. To a man, they preferred to change the subject.

So I was suspicious of McCain's hero credentials and, after a relatively simple online investigation, confirmed my suspicions. They are a self instigated load of crap.

McCain's military record, from his days as a cadet at Annapolis to his retirement as a Captain twice passed over for an Admiral's star, would have gotten an officer without his family history drummed out of the service. As a cadet he was an undisciplined under achiever. As a pilot he was an inept disaster. As a POW he violated the Code of Conduct by signing a confession to attacking, under orders, civilian targets. When he refused early release he was following orders, not acting heroically.

And his decorations! He never received one for action in combat! He got them because he was a POW and the son and grandson of admirals.

The minute he got home he began to spin his personal history and his lies have served him well politically but the don't make him a hero. They make him an untrustworthy wannabe. They make him a guy who would dump the wife and family who waited faithfully while he was a POW and marry a millionaire's daughter. It can't be said that this was done solely because the ex had outlived her usefulness and the new bride allowed him to exit a failed career and start a new one but you have to wonder. He filed for his candidacy to represent Arizona in the House before he had ever lived there.

I'm not even going to bring up the Keaton scandal or the many stories of his erratic behavior as a Senator but they, too, are a matter of record.

I will, however, say this. Any charge that the press has inordinately favored Obama when this is the first article I have seen that even passes a light brush over these things should now be put to rest.

I believe the press does prefer Obama just as the majority of well informed Americans do but it certainly hasn't led to unfair treatment of McCain. When you compare coverage of his mythical, self written history to the brouhaha over Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezco, etc. one has to conclude that McCain has been treated with kid gloves.

Posted by: David Dial | October 6, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

John McCain is the perfect candidate to crash our country into the ground! His erratic behavior has been in the spotlight for the last few weeks now, so we know he's definitely capable of "stalling" our country's engine too!

Posted by: John | October 6, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Too many pseudo-experts engaged in this, to include the DNC researchers who dug it up.

This incident occurred in an era when the Navy was destroying a plane every day, and Naval Aviators will tell you the mishap investigations from this era are all suspect. The Navy had just started to standardize maintenance procedures the year prior to this incident (1959), meaning it is very likely the investigator used personal opinion rather than any technical manuals to make assessment on the engine performance.

Also, the Navy didn't begin to standardize flight training procedures until the following year (1961). Without a standard, this judgment was based on personal opinion of the investigator. There was no way to say McCain was in accordance with standard procedures as none existed. Nor was there any way to assess if training had adequately prepared him for the moment he ran out of both airspeed and ideas.

Posted by: GB | October 6, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

V. Benefield:

Don't be upset. If it is God's will for McCain to win, the MSM bias toward Obama won't stop it ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

David Dial:

I heard you the first time.

John:

Perhaps you missed where John SIDNEY McCain sounded the warning on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? That was blocked by the DEMOCRATS! I would trust him in the "pilot's seat" over Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

GB:

Thanks for the input.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I served as an officer in the U.S. Army in Vietnam in 1968. In the process I saw a few heroic acts and got to know a few real heroes. The aspect of their character that stood out the most was modesty regarding their acts of heroism. To all of them it was a "just doing my job" kind of thing. I never heard one brag. For most it was difficult, even embarrassing, to talk about what they had done. To a man, they preferred to change the subject.

So I was suspicious of McCain's hero credentials and, after a relatively simple online investigation, confirmed my suspicions. They are a self instigated load of crap.

McCain's military record, from his days as a cadet at Annapolis to his retirement as a Captain twice passed over for an Admiral's star, would have gotten an officer without his family history drummed out of the service. As a cadet he was an undisciplined under achiever. As a pilot he was an inept disaster. As a POW he violated the Code of Conduct by signing a confession to attacking, under orders, civilian targets. When he refused early release he was following orders, not acting heroically.

And his decorations! He never received one for action in combat! He got them because he was a POW and the son and grandson of admirals.

The minute he got home he began to spin his personal history and his lies have served him well politically but the don't make him a hero. They make him an untrustworthy wannabe. They make him a guy who would dump the wife and family who waited faithfully while he was a POW and marry a millionaire's daughter. It can't be said that this was done solely because the ex had outlived her usefulness and the new bride allowed him to exit a failed career and start a new one but you have to wonder. He filed for his candidacy to represent Arizona in the House before he had ever lived there.

I'm not even going to bring up the Keaton scandal or the many stories of his erratic behavior as a Senator but they, too, are a matter of record.

I will, however, say this. Any charge that the press has inordinately favored Obama when this is the first article I have seen that even passes a light brush over these things should now be put to rest.

I believe the press does prefer Obama just as the majority of well informed Americans do but it certainly hasn't led to unfair treatment of McCain. When you compare coverage of his mythical, self written history to the brouhaha over Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezco, etc. one has to conclude that McCain has been treated with kid gloves.

Posted by: David Dial | October 6, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

has anybody read this whole artical? John McCain is a traitor to this country, he should have been convicted of treason

http://www.usvetdsp.com/smith_mc.htm

Posted by: Thomas | October 6, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Semper Paratus,

Dude stalling a plane means it is flying too slow to stay in the air. Stalling an engine is something entirely different!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

When McCain was being tortured for his country, I don't know what could have gone through his mind, but I'll bet he never thought that the "free press" in his own country would be calling his honesty into question in the attempt to make someone look good who, as far as we know, wasn't as much as a cub scout.

Posted by: phil | October 6, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

David Dial:

Dial back on the send button, dude.

Thomas:

I read the entire article -- McCain is not a traitor -- next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Find something important. This article is irrelevant and boring. you suck.

Posted by: Mac | October 6, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I am an avid Obama-Biden supporter. I have volunteered for Obama in northern Virginia since late January. I phonebanked to many of the primary states, knocked on doors many times here in Virginia, and managed a campaign outreach table at public events. I have lost track of how many voters I registered (probably about 30 or 40) over the last few months.

But my goodness, I really don't care whether or not John McCain wrecked that plane through pilot error or because the engine just failed. Maybe he still thinks it was the engine and believes the investigators' conclusion was wrong. What does it matter now? And what in the world does that have to do with this election?

Fair warning: if Barack Obama was ever in a fender-bender in a Chicago parking lot in his 20s (I am making up this example to make a point), I also do not care who was at fault then. Please save your excellent fact checking for something relevant to our futures or to the character of the nominees, not old accident investigations.

Posted by: Fairfax Voter | October 6, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Fairfax Voter:

Thank you.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Ex-Navy Pilot (above) said it best: "McCain's service while POW was truly admirable, and those who try to slander McCain due to statements he made under torture don't listen to what his fellow POW's say about his dedication and loyalty to his comrades and country. I got a miniscule taste of POW life during Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape training, and my hat is off to McCain for serving honorably during those years of hell."

Those of you attacking McCain's service now were probably defending Kerry's service in 2004, right?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

To: V. Benefield,

To this date I have heard nothing to corroborate McCain's story that his captors offered to let him go home. This is just the kind of glorified hero of Viet Nam bull hockey that McCain spouts. To quote an old commercial, "Where's the beef?"

To Ria, First of all, his name is Hannity, not Hennity. And most importantly, he hasn't had an original thought since he was in the first grade! This man is a Republican shill, along with Limbaugh and O'Reilly! If these guys make sense to you, and you vote for the "war hero" and the empty suit, you deserve what you get.

As I write this note the market is down almost 700 points because of the reckless and idiotic economic policies of the past twenty years beginning with Reagan;s "trickle-down economy" and no regulation.

Is the "Keating Five" scandal relevant to current affairs? To quote Sarah Palin, "You betcha!"

Posted by: Bob Zeno | October 6, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Jake D

With all due respect, you are the one who should check your facts. There is news coverage and video footage of McCain countering charges of being a carpetbagger during his first campaign for public office in Arizona with a statement regarding his longest home of residence being in Hanoi. He has made a career out of his self ascribed heroism. He is a jerk and a dangerous one at that. If you want to vote for him because you support his political views, good on you, but if it is because you think he is a true American hero of laudable character you should think again.

Posted by: David Dial | October 6, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I have not seen the total voting record of John McCain in both the house and in the senate and how he has voted on veteran’s issues. Also the reports of his alcoholic activities and womanizing while he was stationed at the Naval Air station at Pensacola Florida while he was the commanding officer. Conduct unbecoming an Officer for the diring while on duty immoral conduct, Adultery intoxicated while on duty. Also his conduct of unsatisfactory leadership of a commanding officer in drinking at his duty station. This is a very poor senator for Arizona and should be removed form his senators post.

Posted by: kenneth dixon nogales AZ | October 6, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

To give this event two pinnochios is absurd. Engines should not quit because the power setting is too low. To allege the pilot should be flying power-on approaches to avoid engine failure is more a matter of the Navy trying to cover up defective engines, than a matter of pilot error. Regarding the landing pattern he flew, flying a pattern that is too large simply means you canot glide to a safe landing, in the event of an engine failure (It certainly doesn't cause an engine failure, as the article states). In my experience (1500 hrs flight time), about 99% of pilots fly patterns that are too large...particularly lower time pilots. Even in the hands of a highly experienced pilot, doing everything by the book, making the runway at the right speed and altitude, but with a dead engine, is quite challenging. Unless John McCain missed a clear item on his checklist regarding the engine, or ran out of gas, the cause of this crash was a dead engine, not pilot error.

Posted by: David B | October 6, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Bob Zeno:

Obama's ties to TERRORISTS are relevant during a war on terrorism too.

David Dial:

That's not necessarily "bragging" though to counter the carpetbagging charge -- I do remember in 2000 that McCain refused to bring up his POW experience -- that's the main point I was making.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

David B:

Not only that, but The "Fact" Checker also CHANGED the initial story -- I quoted above "True only in the most technical sense" (when Obama or Biden get that much for most of their outright lies) from the story -- Dobbs must have caught some flak from hsi Obama contacts.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

On a personal level, I like John McCain. He's as normal as most you meet in life. I also met Fidel Castro once and I am as far from a communist as you can get. As we go through life things happen and people pass through but you never know what they are unless you need to know. Lets deal with today and John is not up to the strain of resesitating the Bush disaster and Sarah Palin is not mentally up to being an honest broker in forien affairs or those of state either. Zelots are dangerous and anyone who repeats verbatim slander without knowing the facts is not Presidential material. Mr. Obama seems to be attuned to the plight of the working class and we desperatly need that. Forien affairs are not an immeadiate concern as all wars take time to develope and can be dealt with as they arise. Joe Biden just needs to contain the heart he wears on his sleeve and think before he opens his mouth sometimes and we can all use some of that advice.

Posted by: anOPINIONATEDsob | October 6, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

A very simple solution...do not vote for any D or any R. They (D and R) have screwed the country into a "Royal" mess.

I know it will be hard you you D's and R's to do that. You each seem to cling dearly to old loyalties. The reason the USA was born was to get away from those "Royals."

I know you are each (D's and R's) afraid of losing. The country is more than 1/2 the way gone now (thanks to R's most recently) and it appears logic has no place left in our discourse.

Simply, do not vote D or R and you can relax, get a suntan like those currently in office!

The choice is all of ours to make.

Posted by: Bob | October 6, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

What is the alleged "verbatim slander"? I think the Congress AND White House is Democratic control would be the worst thing possible for the economy or foreign policy.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Bob:

The Democrats, in fact, have been in control of Congress "most recently" for the past two years at least.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

That being said, I don't mind people voting for third parties -- since California is rarely close in national elections any more, that's what I do -- the real issue, of course, is when not voting for the "lesser of two evils" actually ends up electing the "greater of two evils."

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone see that Kevin Costner movie where HE was the one person to decide the Presidential election?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh pluueeezzzz! For those people thinking McCain is NOT AT FAULT for his reckless piloting and military behavior shows that you need to stop drinking his Kool-Aide! Don't you think that If McCain REALLY was a POW AND WAR HERO, he would have his military records RELEASED so that he could USE THEM TO BRAG [WITH UNDENIABLE PROOF] about the circumstances that made him a 'hero'. Instead he wants us to believe his statements instead of providing proof. By virtue of the fact that he continues to deny access or release of his records, he apparently has something to hide during that time frame which is indicative of him being NO HERO in any sense of the word! What he has stated [which must be exaggerated] about his piloting and stay at the Hanoi Hilton cannot be corroborated due to his failure to allow access to or release said records. Don't you think that he would want to 'BRAG and USE' the facts of his military records which would show whether or not he was a true hero? We would all know [beyond a doubt] that he really was a hero, but he wants us to take his word for it instead. It's become impossible to take his "word" on anything since he has done nothing but LIE throughout his campaign! Once a person LIES, it's impossible to ever take his "word" again [on his military history or anything else for that matter]. So until he releases his military records, no one should believe a word he says about being a HERO.

And while we are at it, he also needs to release his 'medical records' in a proper manner where they can be fully examined [not in that pitiful exercise he perpetrated on the public and press for 3 hours with no copies being made and no thorough examination being done]. That only told me that he is hiding some information and afraid that would keep him from becoming Prez due to his poor health. That "show" was in fact a very telling sign that he does have something untoward to hide!

Posted by: FedUpinVA | October 6, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Libs press continue to coverup Obamas past. This "article" is feeble. Libs are in panic mode. Ayers news coming.

Posted by: T_E_X | October 6, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

McCain's service record as a pilot is far from unblemished, however one must remember that his father was an admiral in the military at the time. Many of the mistakes and errors McCain made that would've cost other pilots their wings were overlooked in McCain's case due to the high rank of his father. Whether one does or doesn't support McCain for President, one has to remember that McCain's entire military career was shaped by his father's influence.

Posted by: Chuck | October 6, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/08/politics/main4080395.shtml?source=related_story

McCain has 17 awards and decorations. Besides the Silver Star Medal, McCain also received the Legion of Merit with a combat "V" and one gold star, a Distinguished Flying Cross and a Bronze Star Medal with a combat "V" and two gold stars.

Several citations mention his achievements either as a prisoner or as a lieutenant commander flying bombing runs off the deck of the USS Oriskany. Some are signed by then-Secretary of the Navy John Warner, who would become a colleague of McCain's in the Senate.

The citations refer to his "accurate ordnance delivery" and his "aggressive and skillful airmanship." He earned his Bronze Star the day before he was shot down, for participating in a mission over an airfield in Phuc Yen, 11 miles north of Hanoi.

The citation for his Distinguished Flying Cross sums up McCain's misfortune the following day:

"Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target."

Years later, as his Navy career approached its end, McCain received the Legion of Merit Medal. By then, his missions were in the halls of Congress as a liaison to the Senate from the Navy's Office of Legislative Affairs.

He was praised for providing Navy leaders "with sage advice and sound judgment for enacting critical legislation during a period of severe fiscal constraint."

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Chuck:

At least he had the balls to serve.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Sure he did JakeD. He blamed the plane, not himself, though it was clearly his fault and not the plane's. As has been said over and over in presidential politics, character counts, and McCain is showing his by trying to deny his own mistakes and blaming someone or something else.

Posted by: Bob | October 6, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

My husband's brother was in flight school with John McCain. Rex is an avid Republican, but he said John McCain is "dumb". Almost failed out of flight school. If his dad had not been an Admiral, he would have. Most of the guys in flight school with McCain, did not like him.
Rex was raised by a single mother, no privileges. Dropped out of high school at 17 and joined the Navy. Became a Navy pilot and flew missions over Vietnam. Never got shot down. Came back to the states and rose all the way to a Captain in the Navy. Was commander of Fallen Air Force Base in NV. I say he is the real hero. Did it all on his own. Check it out if you have doubts. His name is Captain Marion Rex Rackowitz, USS Navy Retired!

Posted by: Helen | October 6, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad someone mentioned McCain's father in connection to his service record. The American people seem to have forgotten that when McCain was taken as a prisoner of war, many in the foreign press reported him as being a pawn in the Chess game of Viet Nam. His father was the admiral in charge of all Navy troops in Asia during the war, and some believed he allowed his son to be taken prisoner as a way to solicite sympathetic support from Congress to increase and continue funding of the war in Viet Nam.

Posted by: William | October 6, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh Ripley, thanks for reassuring me as I have always been of the opinion that all that HERO worship and adulation was nothing more than Bulls*it, but kept it to myself. I believe had he really been the "hero" he wants Americans to believe he was [with no proof, just his word], he would have released his records so he could BRAG about his hero status and have the 'absolute proof' to backup his statements. Now I 'know' I am not alone in my beliefs and he has USED his POW status [he thinks will always get him sympathy] to pull the wool over our eyes for all these years! Does OPPORTUNIST sound familiar?

Posted by: FedUpinVA | October 6, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

These stories are thinly vield attempts to try to "swiftboat" McCain.


Can't you guys stick to the issues, rather than this manure? The more the media trys to smear McCain, the less I want to vote for Obama.

Posted by: Joy | October 6, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how many of these awards were given to McCain because he deserved them or because his father was an admiral? Military awards are given by commanding officers; therefore, what better way to advance your own career than to award commendations to the son of an admiral?

Posted by: Marshall | October 6, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Where is the patriotism this country once had or the respect to fight for what is right? We are the rallies protesting this horrific act of robbery of the American tax payer? Where are the people protesting illegal immigration who cost us tax payers billions each year? Where are the people who cared about this great country like we did when JFK was around? We have allowed the greed of few to destroy the work of many. Please remember that the people still have the power to make change happen so get off your butts and do something to make this country stand tall again.

Posted by: James | October 6, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Sen. McCain was on the airplane.

The safety board wasn't.

If Sen. McCain wishes to maintain a contrary position to their findings a reasonable person would not assume it was a lie.

If they had been sure he messed up, they would have tossed him out of the pilot program - it is VERY popular and VERY competitive.

Why not talk about his real lies? Like him pretending to be pro-life, and pretending to be economically conservative, and pretending to want to clean up Washington?

Posted by: Andy | October 6, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Obama did not start the manure, Joy. McCain did. I have been reading about Barrack and I really like what I have read. He was the first Black man to be elected as President of the Harvard Law Review. What an honor. He was also known among friends at Harvard as the "peace maker" I was raised Republican but I think Barrack Obama is a very fine young man. I am a 68 years old white woman and would be proud to call him son!! I have four fine sons of my own.

Posted by: Helen | October 6, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

You want to talk about the ultimate insider: McCain spent his entire childhood with his father a high ranking officer, served in the military under his father's command, left the military to enter Congress along side his father's friends, and now running for President with the support of his father's allies. Sounds a lot like George W. Bush without the military record.

Posted by: Judy | October 6, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

jothemedicaldoctor, about Palin's "reforms", sure, she fired a bunch of folks who had ties to the Oil industry, but THEN she filled those seats with a group of UNQUALIFIED folks based solely on their LOYALTY TO SARAH PALIN. Some "reform", there, just like Dubya's baseless political appointees.

As for the Housing and banking crises, check the actual facts instead of parroting FOX NEWS: both industries were deregulated by the Republican Legislature, who overrode the Presidential veto, leaving no oversight into fraudulent practices, which is precisely how the Keating scandal and Enron happened, on top of the Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac collapses.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

It all boils down to ONE think. Republicans have been in POWER (the president is the ultimate decider) for 8 years. Doesn't matter if your name is Bush, McCain, or Palin. It is still Republican!! And what a BIG MESS they have made of everything!!! Remember how good the 90's were under Democrat POWER??? We NEED TO GO BACK to that. Certainly couldn't be any worse!! How about we Try it???!!!!

Posted by: Helen | October 6, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

This is in response to Joy's comment at 3:31PM. Have you ever noticed that when the Republicans report on items from the past of Democrats or their associations that it is merely educating the public" but when anyone does the same regarding the past of a Republican candidate or his associations then its "dirty politics", "a smear campaign", "pickin' on poor lil' ol' Sarah"? This is politics. This is an election. Neither McCain nor Obama are perfect candidates, however its time McCain and his supporters stopped hiding behind his POW/war record as a reason not to investigate and report on his past.

Posted by: Daniel | October 6, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

All this comes down to is who you WANT to believe, not what really happened or what the evidence says. Those who want a Republican president will believe McCain is a hero even if someone could produce absolute irrefutable proof that he's scum - they've drank the kool-aid and will continue to do so all the way to the end. On the other hand, those who want a Democrat will do just the opposite and believe he's scum even if the proof went the other way. It's all just stupid, meaningless BS.

The point is, McCain's story clearly contradicts the official Navy report, and does so in his own favor. There's no question about that - it's a simple fact. McCain apologists will try to make it sound like a innocent mistake while McCain critics will see it as an out-right lie. Personally, I'm a cynic, so anytime a politician has a story that puts him in a better light than the "official" record, I automatically assume he's lying, republican, democrat, or otherwise. That's what politicians do, that's the very heart of what politics is about. As Ben Stein said about Nixon after being his speech writer, "Of course he lied; he's a politician." It's what they do - all of them, always. That's what politics is.

As for his Navy record, it's not just his political opponents who question it. It's also many people who served with him, including some other POWs. However much McCain's service puts him above questioning (and it shouldn't - nothing should EVER do that), these men, and their views, deserve every bit as much respect and honor as McCain. Anyone who can't accept that is just as dishonorable in their treatment of those veterans as they would accuse others of being. Believe what you want to believe, facts rarely have anything to do with that.

Posted by: Bob | October 6, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Is any politicain good for this country? We should have one government party that listens to the American public rather then fighting for what is best for their party and wealthy friends who support them. I feel Obama's ego will only make things worse while McCain's way will only bring more war into our lives.
By the way, watch out for Pakistan because I here the country may go bankrupt and we may end up spending some of that 700 billion for a country that hates us. Too bad we didn't take the billions and give it back to the people who put it there in the first place, but then anyone over 18+ would be a millionaire except for illegals who definitley don't deserve it.

Posted by: James | October 6, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Ex-Navy Pilot (above) said it best: "McCain's service while POW was truly admirable..." Those of you attacking McCain's service now were probably defending Kerry's service in 2004, right?
--JakeD 2:50 PM
-----------------------------------------
JakeD,
Like my defense of McCain's service as a POW, I also have defended Kerry's service as a brown-water surface warrior in Vietnam. The facts speak clearly that Kerry earned his medals for his actions. The nay-sayers have distorted the records of Kerry's service because they despised Kerry's anti-war actions AFTER he left the Navy. I can understand the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth [sic]" opposition to Kerry based on those anti-war activities but cannot condone their distortions and, yes, lies about his service.
McCain made statements against his country under torture, like many other POWs did, but immediately upon being returned to his cell began to resist again to the utmost of his ability. Almost all the POWs who made such statements were not disloyal--they did not accept special favors nor actively help their captors--but spoke only because their bodies and minds could not stand the abuse anymore. The important thing was that, once the torture stopped, they began to resist their captors again. Except for a very few captives who actually were disloyal and accepted special favors again and again, these POWs all returned home with their honor and integrity intact: Alvarez, Stockdale, Reisner, Hegdahl, Denton, McGrath, Galanti, and yes, John McCain, along with scores of other captives, showed great character during their time as POWs.
But does that mean that McCain's character is solely marked by his time as POW? No. From his jet-jock cockiness and womanizing youth, his reckless daredevil flying, his abandonment of his first wife for a woman who could actually help him in his chosen post-Navy career, his role in the Keating 5 scandal (which he admits was a huge mistake in judgment), to his recent lapses in judgment and erratic behavior, his character must be judged by his entire history. And based on that history, I do not believe he should be Commander in Chief. I admire his patriotism, but I don't admire his character nor his judgment.
So JakeD, just because I praise McCain's service as a POW doesn't mean I think he'd make a good President. Far from it.


Posted by: Ex-Navy Pilot | October 6, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

BTW Did I mention he's a POW?

...and a liar as well... not much has changed in 46 years!

Posted by: Justlovely5 | October 6, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

JakeD,

Look, Jake, you are right about the decorations he received and I am right about the way he received them.

Take his Silver Star. The Silver Star is the nations third highest combat decoration. It is awarded for gallantry in action, not for surviving a tough situation. If surviving was the criteria a lot of us would deserve one.

Had an NVA prison guard been about to stab one of his fellow prisoners and had he torn the bayonet from the guard's grasp and decapitated him with it he would have actually earned the medal. Of course, it would have been awarded posthumously but it would have been earned.

That isn't what happened though. In reality he started spilling military information regarding his unit and it's location and mission within a week of his capture in exchange for medical treatment. That is a fact. Read his book.

The Vietnamese were violating the Geneva Convention by withholding treatment but he violated the Code of Conduct. I admit it was to survive and am not at all sure I wouldn't have done the same but I am sure I wouldn't have gotten an award for gallantry for having done so. I am not even sure I wouldn't have received a court martial for treason.

He then went on to sign a confession to air piracy in which it was stated that he was ordered by his superior officers to seek out and destroy civilian targets. I don't know if this was true or not. War is a horrible thing and innocents are always hurt...sometimes accidentally, sometimes purposefully...hence the term collateral damage. What I am sure of is that he signed it and that, whether it was true or false, is treason, not heroism.

Posted by: David Dial | October 6, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

If you ever threw a balsa glider a a kid you saw stalling. The glider would go in an arc, first down and then up. At some point on the up side of the arc the glider would slow, the nose would drop - and the glider would do the same again. The stall was when the nose dropped: not enough air speed to keep going (low air speed meant not enough lift.) When one of the arcs intersected the ground the glider stopped (of course.) That's the same as McCain's crash.

As stated above, nothing to do with the engine stalling. Airplanes have a "stall speed." If the pilot lets the airspeed drop to the stall speed he risks a stall. If he lets it drop below the stall speed he practically guarantees a stall. Some planes have stall warning systems (that are supposed to go off before a stall happens.)

Posted by: hewhoasks | October 6, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

How many planes does the average pilot crash, pray tell? Do most pilots in training possibly crash so many planes? If so, something is very wrong with this picture.

Those planes ain't cheap, you know. Of course, being the craps-shooting, risk-taking daredevilly maverick that he is,I'm sure he never gave the hit the taxpayers were taking a second thought.

Posted by: Becca | October 6, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

"I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident."

Now I understand why McCain doesn't want to meet primeminister Zapatero of Spain... maybe afraid to be presented some claims, maybe???

Posted by: Roeland Beers | October 6, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Has the Fact Checker ever taken on this story from the Nation?

McCain and the POW Cover-up
Sydney H. Schanberg
http://www.nationinstitute.org/p/schanberg09182008pt1
http://www.nationinstitute.org/p/schanberg09182008pt2

It claims McCain actively sought to prevent POW families from learning details of their loved ones.

How true is it.

Posted by: kravitz | October 6, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

So what! Slow news day.

Posted by: Me | October 6, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

its a shame the vietnamese couldn't keep mccain a little longer maybe 40 years longer.

it is clear that mccain of 2000 is no longer in existence. he wuold rather lose his soul now than lose an election he is a disgrace and his vp nominee winky palin represents the worst of america, a contemptible and corrupt old man and a political version of gracie allen

the only saving grace is that should they win of them our country is strong enough to survive these two


Posted by: politics1 | October 6, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Ex-Navy Pilot:

I've defended Sen. Kerry against attacks on the awarding of his medals too.

David Dial:

Did you question Sen. Kerry's award of his medals in 2004?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

My God, liberals are stupid. Most on this thread have never had to pilot anything larger than the family van.

When is this level of scrutiny going to be aimed at 0bama, even for a fleeting moment?

... waiting...

Posted by: Nelda | October 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

The more information that is provided, the more Mr. McCain shows symptoms of ADHD prior to his POW experience.

It explains his accidents, oppositional behavior, irritability, deferrment to others.

Wonder if he's on meds for that

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | October 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

somebody just shoot the black guy and get thisover with!

Posted by: r | October 6, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I suppose "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" would earn 1/2 a Pinocchio...

Posted by: BiasHunter | October 6, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse


Palin has the nerve to talk about Obama - when she infact is one step away from being a felon. Troopergate, tax evasion, witchcraft. This is the best John McCain could do????er he is mess.


Posted by: WHYNOT | October 6, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"I had to run across the tarmac dodging sniper bullets while..." NO No no wait: I mispoke...

Posted by: BiasHunter | October 6, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

This is how the so called 'news' is reported??

There are quotes of 'conclusions', but no link to the actual investigative document ( re the A-6 crash )

Why is that? Where is the document, which in circumstances like these are usually dozens of pages long? The out of context report doesn't carry much weight.

And did Mr. Dobbs actually review the report, or is this just a reprise of what was written in the LA Times? Can we trust their honesty and accuracy?

Please, Mr. Dobbs, answer these questions so we can know the 'facts'.

Posted by: Scott in Fort Myers | October 6, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Democrats for John McCain and Sarah Palin 2008.

Posted by: Jennifer | October 6, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

George W Bush was a better pilot than John McCain.

Posted by: Nu hampshire | October 6, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

JakeD,

Yes, I did. For the same reasons. I know some guys who I am sure were heroes because I witnessed their heroism with my own eyes. I know many more who were probably heroes because I spent a lot of my life marching around military bases where every uniform is decked out to one degree of another with a thumbnail sketch of the wearer's military history.

As I said before, I've never known a real hero who has more to say about his acts of heroism than, "I did my job". They just don't feel comfortable aggrandizing themselves that way. That is the way it is. If you are ever in a bar listening to a guy telling war stories about how brave he was or how tough he was you are probably listening to a guy who isn't very happy with who he is trying to make his listeners believe he is someone he isn't.

Kerry did that. I met him in the 70's when we were both members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War and heard him do it, so when he did it in his campaign I researched his records too and, while I don't think his actions merited the Silver Star..maybe the Bronze with "V"...he did, at least, receive the award for combat actions.

I went on to support his candidacy but it wasn't because of what he said about his military record or what that said about his character. It was because I thought his political positions were superior to Bush's and, maybe more accurately, that he was the better of two not very good candidates.

This time around I began the campaign season thinking both parties had chosen the best candidate to represent them and didn't really know which I would eventually vote for. I agreed with both on some things and disagreed with both on others.

Over the past several months I have done fairly extensive research on both men. I have waded through the claims and the accusations for and against both. I am a disabled veteran with a full pension so I have some time on my hands.

As a result of my research, while I still don't agree with all his political positions, I support Barack Obama more vigorously than I have ever supported any other candidate for any office and I wouldn't vote for John McCain for any office even though I still agree with some of his positions. It is a matter, to me, of character, judgment, discipline and intelligence and, in my opinion, Obama excels in these while McCain fails.

Posted by: David Dial | October 6, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

It is so obvious, that those of you out here that are republicans, have a hard time dealing with the truth, even when the facts are there. I guess you lie so much even to yourself.I know that party is the most important thing to you all. even at the expense of the country and even the world. Remember one thing STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.

Posted by: Jackie | October 6, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Sen. McCain was on the airplane.

The safety board wasn't.

If Sen. McCain wishes to maintain a contrary position to their findings a reasonable person would not assume it was a lie.

If they had been sure he messed up, they would have tossed him out of the pilot program - it is VERY popular and VERY competitive.

Why not talk about his real lies? Like him pretending to be pro-life, and pretending to be economically conservative, and pretending to want to clean up Washington?

Posted by: Andy | October 6, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

It's just amzing to me the spin that these political wizzards put on anything that seems even remotely inflamtory! It's also appauling that many of you strain to swallow a nat, but are willing to swallow a camel.

Are you all so gullable that you are willing to beleive the lie and are not wise enough to seek out the truth?

Point in fact:

CBS Distorts Palin Interview

Monday, September 29, 2008 10:20 AM

By: James Hirsen

It is a tale of two con jobs.

As outlined in my previous column, ABC’s Charles Gibson interview of Sarah Palin was questionably edited. Now CBS has followed suit with the Katie Couric interview of the GOP vice presidential candidate.

A pattern of distortion has emerged. Both ABC and CBS cut answers by Palin; answers that would have indicated a more nuanced approach to foreign policy when it comes to the issue of multilateral diplomacy.

In the Couric interview, Palin answered a question that dealt with what the U.S. should do to convince Pakistan to take a harder line against terrorists.

“At a time when new leadership comes in, that is the opportunity to forge better, tighter, more productive relationships and that’s what we’ll take advantage of with new leadership in the U.S. and in Pakistan. And I’m sure that President Zardari, too, will agree with us as we commit to the support that Pakistan needs, that other nations in the region need, in order to win this war on terrorism,” Palin responded.

This question and answer were edited out.

Could it be that Palin’s response did not serve CBS’ desired post-interview spin?

When Couric inquired about the implementation of democracy in other parts of the world, Palin answered, “Well, one is that America cannot be counted on to do this solely, to be the savior of every other nation, but we need friends and we need allies, and we need this nation-building effort and we need to forge new alliances, and that is what a new election will provide opportunity to do.”

This response, too, was withheld from the public.

Could it be once again that CBS did not find the response to be consistent with the hawkish image of Palin that mainstream media are trying to cloak her with?

Similarly, Couric asked about instances when a democracy does not produce the desired outcome, such as in the election of Hamas.

“Especially in that region, though, we have got to protect those and support those who do seek democracy and do seek protections for the people who live there. And you know, we’re seeing today, in the last couple of days here in New York, a speaker, a president of Iran, Ahmadinejad, who would come on our soil and express such disdain for one of our closest allies and friends — Israel — and we’re hearing the evil that he speaks. And if hearing him doesn’t allow Americans to commit more solidly to protecting the friends and allies that we need, especially there in the Mideast, then nothing will,” Palin responded.

“If Americans are not waking up to understand what it is that he represents, then nothing is going to wake us up and we will be lulled into some kind of false sense of security that perhaps Americans were a part of before 9/11,” she added.

Again CBS editors snipped away.

One point in fact is very true here, we see the media, like the New York Times, cutting and snipping, doing all they can to slant this election towards their "political messiah" B. Hussein Obama. This is war to gain control of the hearts and minds of the masses and the Democraps are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to perpetuate their ideology of control of the masses!

McCain is no elloquent or charismatic speaker, nor is Palin. This is not a sports event where you support your favorite team, right or wrong. This is a mjor event in the truning point of this nation. Will we support "good" or do we support "evil".

Neither is this an issue of financial security, for if it were we, the american people, would get rid of both democraps and republicons on capitol hill who have spent and wasted our taxes excessively for the past 50 years. It is a far more reaching issue and deeply rooted problem within our own society. Obama is a SOCIALIST! He has no intention of upholding the Republic., and if you truly beleive that we now live in a democracy, you are naiive indeed.

How can so many of you, espousing to be christian men and women, endorse a man like Obama? Martin Luther King, a man I admired immensely, would never support a man who has no moral bearing and which is not a christian, not even by the greatest stretch of the human imagination. No decent and moral man votes twice to defeat the "Child Protection Act." Nor does he openly and arrogantly support partial birth abortion!

I must admit that I have lived long enough to see the last days...for it was foretold over two thousand years ago, that in the last days "man would call evil good and good evil".

Posted by: Jordan | October 6, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

can any of you fly a aircraft i do not mean a paper airplane or a computer game my bet you none of you could taxi one a foot

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Have any of you ever tried to post an anti-Obama comment on the New York Times blog? Have you ever asked yourself why they must first receiw your comment before it is posted? Look at it, over 50-1 in favor of Obama. Of the 5 posts I have submitted, providing documentation upon documentation,supporting intelligent arguments against this man, not one has been allowed posting! Think about it! Let it sink in! The American public is being manipulated!

Posted by: Jordan | October 6, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

i bet obama could not find the taxi light switch to a cessna

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Come on, man, you're really grading McCain on a curve here. He told an outright lie, and it only merits two Pinocchios? That is so lame.

Posted by: Patrick | October 6, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

was kerry a pow i dont thinks that is the same i fake grunt vs a navy pilot pow

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, I'm surprised that McCain wants to go THERE. But, then, he's repeatedly made the mistake of thinking that Americans don't remember HIS past:

McCain has plenty of relationships with sixties radicals and terrorists. Indeed, until just a few years ago, McCain openly boasted not only about his passing friendship but also his deep collaboration with one of the most prominent of Vietnam-era student radicals, David Ifshin - who denounced America on Radio Hanoi as McCain sat locked up as a POW. Until the day he died, at age 47 in 1996, Ifshin never renounced nor apologized for his youthful, radical past. McCain said of Ifshin, "We worked together for our shared ideals."

And then there's Carl H. Lindner Jr., billionaire Cincinnati businessman, CEO of Chiquita Brands International from 1984 to 2001, and remained on the company's board of directors until May 2002.As the co-host of a recent top-dollar fundraiser for Sen. John McCain, Lindner oversaw the payment of roughly $1.7 million to a Colombian paramilitary group that is today designated a terrorist organization by the United States.

Chiquita executives paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC), which is described by George Washington University's National Security Archive as an "illegal right-wing anti-guerrilla group tied to many of the country's most notorious civilian massacres." Following a Justice Department indictment last year, Chiquita admitted to illegally funding the paramilitaries and agreed to pay a $25 million fine. Chiquita's payments to the AUC began in 1997 and lasted seven years; roughly half of the funds came after the group was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the U.S. State Department in 2001.

While Lindner was CEO of Chiquita, the company began sending money to the AUC through its shipping subsidiary Banadex. A report by the Organization of American States states that Banadex also engaged in arms trafficking, helping to deliver 3,000 Nicaraguan AK-47 rifles and millions of rounds of ammunition to the AUC in 2001. According to federal prosecutors, when company officials realized the arrangement was illegal, they switched to making the payments in cash.

According to the Justice Department, the payments "were reviewed and approved by senior executives" of Chiquita, who knew by no later than September 2000 "that the AUC was a violent, paramilitary organization."

Late last week, Lindner co-hosted a $25,000-per-person fundraiser for McCain and the Republican Party in the wealthy Indian Hills neighborhood of Cincinnati, Ohio. The event raised about $2 million; Lindner also serves on McCain's Ohio Victory Team. McCain has described FARC as "one of the worst" terrorist groups and accused his opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, of being unwilling to support Colombian President Uribe's anti-terrorist efforts. The Arizona Republican is raising funds from a man whose company once paid that very same terrorist group.

And then, there's G. Gordon Liddy - fundraiser/contributor for John McCain. Liddy, a self-professed admirer of Adolf Hitler and CONVICTED FELON for his part in the Watergate Scandal, is a long-time friend, says John McCain, who also said to Liddy, "I'm proud of you.":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGRvo6LWuaY

And then, there's Charles Keating, CONVICTED FELON and mentor of John McCain -- who is the most damning relationship of all, given the eerily similar banking meltdown of the current economic crisis... McCain was censured in Congress for his role in the Savings and Loans scandals back in 1989-91 that cost taxpayers $500 BILLION to bailout... McCain claimed then to have learned his lesson, but apparently not.

I think Maureen Dowd said it best a couple of days ago:

"Real Mavericks don't brand themselves." She was speaking about Palin, but I think it applies to John McCain, too.

Posted by: MissouriMom | October 6, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

ny times only takes one sided blogs anything that obama does not like does not get in you would be viewed as a trouble maker

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

here we go with the arm chair tv lawyers boy 8 years of this and they could not even find one law that bush broke all we get is fire does not melt steel crap

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

"True only in the most technical sense" gets McCain two Pinocchios, same as outright lies for Obama or Biden. Interesting.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 12:21 PM

JakeD will get 10 pinocchio's for making bald lies. Where did Obama or Biden lie? Did they waste tax payer money to crash planes?
Did they cost the tax payer $200 billion by participating in keating 5?
No sir, JakeD is a honest man :-)
He will only twist facts 180 degrees. Jake DumbAss knows it all - talking points from Bush and Karl Rove.

Posted by: washingtonD | October 6, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

so where's the big story about how a terrorist helped obama get his start in politics? oh, that's right, they just live in the same neighborhood. that's just a partisan witch hunt. haha.

wake up libbies. your blinding hatred of old-fashion american values, strong national security policy and your mind-blowingly stupid desire to be loved by every nation in the world is allowing you to be led astray by the biggest pied piper in american history.

Posted by: curious | October 6, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

ill tell you the ny times is a dogs best friend my dog loves to crap it but i had to hurt his feelings the guy next door moved out and it does not get delivered anymore

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

what laws have been broken im talking real ones not made up ones

Posted by: wtobias | October 6, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

I have not been impressed by what I have read of McCain's war record. I understand he spent most of the years as a non-combatant, a POW, and during that time, he signed a confession at the request of his captors. I am sure that his life was onerous and difficult while in prison camp, as would the life of any POW.

Much more important are his policies today, such as his plan to raise taxes on Americans who are fortunate enough to have employer-provided health care while he complains about Obama raising taxes on a much smaller number of people.

His behavior in the week before the bailout/giveaway was basically hysteria. He acted as if he were unhinged.

Oh, and by the way, even my car has a stall speed.

Posted by: marik7 | October 6, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

John McCain was a prisoner of war along with 700 plus others. He was not tortured every day the first month than they would layoff.He was treated like all the other men who also got tortured.
La's Vegas McCain his gambling, his womenising, associations with every major player in Arizona gambling.
There's so mush I Will not go on.
His son is also involved, has resigned from a bank that just went down.

Posted by: Wayne | October 6, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Mc Cain lying so what else is new? The whole thing about him being a hero is wrong. Heros are people who saved other troops lives not folks who got captured. Go to you tube and search Mc Cain POW and see what his fellow prisoners in the hanoi hilton think of John. I am a decorated veteran and my son fought in Iraq neither of us can understand how John Mc Same tried to derail the Gi Bill which grants our troops coming home from the wars education benefits. Barack Obama has a great plan to recreate the VA and for us veterans Barack Obama is the better choice period. Vote Hope Not Fear from the same folks that brought us George W. Bush. The only thing that we should fear is more of these same clowns running our government. OBAMANOS! YES WE WILL BRING ABOUT THE CHAGNE WE NEED NOW!

Posted by: Raul Pedraza | October 6, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

The only part of John McCain's record he's ever wanted to talk about is from 1967 to 1972 -- his POW experience. Other than that, John McCain was a lousy officer and he's all but admitted it. He says he's always been about "Country First" but he failed to study and spent his time at Annapolis carousing (his word) ending up 894th out of 899 graduates. He got married but committed serial adultery, cheating on his wife while a Naval Officer -- a violation of its honor code and a court martial offense. The same with his drunken binges. And I'm no military expert, but those who are have noted that flying jets is usually a plum assignment for those graduating at the top of their class, not the bottom. Country First to let family connections put yourself in an assignment that you're not prepared or qualified for? 5 crashed airplanes? Typical pilots have fewer than 1; anybody else who crashed 3 planes in their early training would never have been given a chance to get back in the saddle. Look, my Dad was a POW for 2 1/2 years but that didn't make him presidential material. This guy, this "maverick" has always been about John McCain -- he obeys rules he likes, he has disdain for those he doesn't. He touts his honor code when it suits him, he ignores it when it doesn't. That's not "Country First."

Posted by: DId I Mention I'm a POW??? | October 6, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

"Give me a break. Where is the lie? When you stall an engine is shuts down or quits. The liberal media needs to get a life on this one. "

WRONG. The aerodynamic stall speed of an aircraft is the point at which the wing ceases to provide enough lift to maintain flight. That has precisely NOTHING to do with causing an engine to "stall" (= cease to run), although having the throttle lever set too low to maintain sufficient forward motion will cause the AIRCRAFT (not the engine) to "stall".

Any doubts, look it up.

Posted by: Old MSgt | October 6, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

A DAY IN THE LIFE

John McCain has a sad life. What must it be like, to wake up, look in the mirror, without your TV make-up, pulling your 72 year old body up to your full 5'-6" height, taking a deep breath and trying to convince yourself that one more day of campaign hell is worth it.

What a long road. Can you even decide any more how much of your own story even you believe? Not just this election, but everything.

Ex-Navy pilot, yes, but all those crashes. Even if some of them were not your fault, it's hardly the record of an outstanding pilot. It was fun though, in a desperate kind of way. Can't even remember half the women you slept with or how many times drunk, in short, what it was like to be the young John McCain.

The Palin pick helps a lot, nothing overt, just in an old guy whimsical way, just nice being around her. People respect you more when you're with some beautiful gal.

Womanizer, that's what they're calling you, for stuff that happened decades ago. You'll show them. They will pay. They will pay you for your 5 1/2 lost years in Vietnam.

Why does that still live in your mind, in a hundred different versions that even you can no longer distinguish? It was bad, but you know a lot of guys had it worse. It troubles your mind, almost every day in some way, like something broken that will never, ever heal. They will pay.

Anger wells up in you -- they keep talking about how poorly you did in the Naval Academy... For God sake let the past rest!!! Got to snap out of all this, John. Got to snap out of this "Who am I? Why am I here" stuff. Got to keep one thing in mind, John, only one thing, victory, victory, victory. You will show them.

Now only one man stands between you and power, the power to end your shame and self pity. He is a good man, remarkably intelligent and well suited to an honest political life, and the people really like him. Such a man, you know, is the most dangerous kind. Must be handled with care, but it's too late in the game to be careful. Time to roll the dice again. Got to go real negative, real fast.

Even after surviving in the filth of Washington all these years, some things are still distasteful. To win the presidency from this man you are now reduced to the lowest form of political crawling -- hiding behind the skirts of a political dupe, sending her out to stir up the lowest of the low, with exaggerated nonsense, lies, distortions, anything, hoping something will stick, praying your patchwork of lies and self-serving narrative will hold together long enough. You're trusting the experts on this one. There's an art to this.

"If she pulls this off," you think, "she'll deserve a pardon for whatever small stuff they have on her in Alaska. We can dodge that flack, even if it comes to that. Once we're in, we can dodge anything. Bush did, and I've got my pick of his crew now."

As you take your medications, you chuckle to yourself and whisper, "Here's to John McCain, leader of the biggest bunch of whatevers to ever mark a ballot. Here's to anybody voting for me because they hate my opponent's middle name. Here's to lapel pins and those who voted for George Bush twice and, yet again, my friends, are willing to go double or nothing with the GOP. Bunch of idiots. They deserve the kinda change I've got in mind."

Posted by: Citizen of Chicago | October 6, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

curious said:
"wake up libbies. your blinding hatred of old-fashion american values, strong national security policy and your mind-blowingly stupid desire to be loved by every nation in the world is allowing you to be led astray by the biggest pied piper in american history."

Wake up, curous. Your blind hatred of "liberals" and your mindblowingly stupid willingness to put someone even more asoundingly incompetent than G.W. Bush a 72 year old heartbeat away from the Presidency is allowing YOU to be led astray by FOX and Limbaugh, who are feeding on your fear in order to give your eyeballs and ears to their advertisers for their own financial gain. Noone here on the Republican side is putting "country first". Noone.

Posted by: John S. | October 6, 2008 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Really, I don't care how many planes McCain crashed, its just part of serving in the military. At least he served his country unlike numerous others that think they have a clue what vets go through. In the same tolken I don't care if Obama is a Muslim, he can come out or hide it. I care what they will do as President. Why don't the media do some real reporting on what policies they have voted for. Tell us what lobby groups are in their pocket.

Posted by: Storm4uar | October 6, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

A man that lies about the little things will lie about the big things. McCain is NOT to be trusted.

Posted by: Don Buchwalter | October 6, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse

David Dial:

We will have to agree to disagree on McCain and Obama's character, judgment, discipline and intelligence.

washingtonD:

Obama and Biden lie every time they claim that McCain and Palin lied.

Obama also lied about aggressively pursuing an agreement with McCain on public campaign finance. Biden lied about McCain's healthcare plan (and that restaurant he said he visited). If you don't believe me, just ask Mr. Dobbs as those are among the few whoppers he HAS called the Democratic nominees on. Do I trust those two to not raise taxes and implement socialism, thereby putting uns into another Great Depresssion? No. But, at least you can take comfort that they didn't crash planes (or even have the balls to serve in our military) or cost the tax payer $200 billion in the S&L failures.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

It would be interesting to know further details about this event in 1960. I don't believe pilots sufficiently trained demonstrate the tendency to stall on approach. Either Senator McCain was not sufficiently equipped or he was not sufficiently engaged in the task at hand. The Navy seems to have determined that he was sufficiently equipped.

Considering the task and all the implications of its failure, I think this event speaks to John McCain's ability at this point in his life to operate under internal pressure.

Could it be possible that an Admiral's son has enjoyed a less than critical record of his performance as an airman? I don't know, I guess we'd have to consider the record of the various branches themselves on that issue.

Posted by: Path | October 6, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

"Obama and Biden lie every time that they claim McCain and Palin lied"

It can be demonstrated beyond doubt that this statement is a lie.

Posted by: Blue | October 6, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Lots of people don't know what they are talking about here. Just a few simple ideas.
Who in his right mind would believe navy investigators out of hand on a question of pilot error vs navy equiptment failure? You would really have a hard time proving that an engine lost power, which is what stalling really means in this context, over a navy inquiry into the "facts" of an accident. The pilot often does not get a break here, and someone higher up would most likely know that, so they might believe McCain over the investigators, he was there when it happened and his arqument might have more weight with some people.
Where does anyone get the idea that the A4Skyhawk, a fighter, is a bomber? That thing is so small it can't even carry enough fuel without external tanks. The thing weighs 10,450 lb. empty and 24,500 lb. max takeoff weight and will carry 9,900 lb. of bombs. This is tiny, people, at most you could call it an attack aircraft, in other words, a fighter sometimes pressed into service as a small, short-range bomber, for the obvious reason that you have to defend yourself over the target, even with the U.S.A.F overhead. This old equiptment was known to have defects, but it was what we had at the time. (Ask a N.J. Air National Guard person that worked on the F-105 Fighter-bomber what he thought about the reliability of this era of equiptment, I am sure if you talk to the right people, you will get an earfull). Most people that know about the facts will not say anything, so for the most part, all your going to get is people talking about things they know nothing about, which is depressing to normal people, so don't bother telling me where I am wrong here, I will not be back.

Posted by: Ted M | October 6, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Don Buchwalter:

What LITTLE THINGS?! What part of "I crashed a plane ..." don't you understand? McCain has never denied it was his sole fault.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Blue:

You would have to prove, first, that McCain and Palin have lied.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

I didn't read anywhere that HE said it was an error, he just said that the engine quit. He may have stopped it trying a landing that us pilots try if we go to a crash landing course... It teaches you to fly without the engine. This is typical mass media making more of what it is....

Posted by: Craig | October 6, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Ted M:

I appreciate your frustration ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

"You would really have a hard time proving that an engine lost power, which is what stalling really means in this context"

I think its interesting that you accuse people here of not knowing what they're talking about and then make a statement like this. Please, invest a few more hours into Wikipedia.

Posted by: Blue | October 6, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm an Obama supporter, and I greatly respect McCains service.

Fighter pilots are by nature at least a little on the edge. He crashed a plan in training, isn't that where we want our pilots making their mistakes?

He was in his 20's. Were any of us at 20 the person we were at 30, 40, 50 or older? He's had some big mistakes I'm sure, but he's lived a big kind of life.

Cut it out and talk about the real issues, like global warming, energy, education, health care and the national debt. We need to get off this crap and stay to the points!!

They both love our country and they have both committed their lives to serving it. They both deserve better then nit picking and mud racking! We each have to decide which canidate we think will carry us into a better future.

Posted by: Rhetta | October 6, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

A few more hours reading, or writing, the articles on Wikipedia?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

-Google-

I don't have to prove anything; its been common knowledge for several weeks. I'd rather not get into a discussion of the phenomenal extant to which the McCain campaign has gone with certain tactics. I'd much rather talk about the current situation, which is grim for McCain for a few reasons which have nothing to do with lying. Let's keep it on subject though, I guess.

Posted by: Blue | October 6, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Rhetta:

What do you prefer re: Obama's position on global warming, energy, education, health care or the national debt? He won't even agree that this latest $700 billion addition to the debt will slow down his spending proposal (other than, I think, Biden said something about foreign aid is going to have to be decreased).

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Craig - there's specific courses that deal with loss of power. I'm not sure that deciding on your own to try your skill at handling a catastrophic loss of power while on approach as a trainee would be the wisest call.

Posted by: Blue | October 6, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Blue:

"On topic" McCain is not LYING about this plane crash. If you have some other example you think McCain or Palin have lied about, feel free to share with the class. I could "Google" McCain & lied all day long, just as I could "Google" Elvis is alive.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

When the investigation reports pilot error as the sole cause and final verdict and McCain states that he lost power, that is a fundamental difference in opinion. Is it your opinion then that McCain is correct and truthful in his statement? Remember, this is an Admirals son in an Admirals Navy.

Posted by: Blue | October 6, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

John McCain and Sarah Palin are self proclaimed "Mavericks". My grandchildren were over this past weekend and watched an animated movie called "Surf's Up". The star of the movie is Cody Maverick. I wouldn't want him for President either. Come to think about it if I had my choice of "Mavericks"...

Posted by: jgh2 | October 6, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Jake, nevermind. I've read your comments before and I don't believe your very sincere or original in many of your arguments. You seem to be a rebuttal-bot who requires input before managing relevant output. Also, please stop highlighting important points with all capitals; that enrages and confuses me. I may be wrong.. but not about the capitals. let us part in peace. ciao!

Posted by: Blue | October 6, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

The point of this article is that McCain has tried to make himself into something he's not, and always used that to get ahead in the world. Most of us had to work to where we are in life, but McCain only had to invoke his father's name.

Read the Rolling Stone article; it's an eye opener. John McCain has been living a lie since he was born.

Posted by: Suzanne | October 6, 2008 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I agree that McCain lives in a long shadow. I don't believe he's been banking on his name however. He is a strong man; perhaps it would have been better to let his record speak for itself instead of speaking for his record, so to speak. Hindsight is 20/20.

Posted by: Path | October 6, 2008 7:59 PM | Report abuse

JakeD - Does your mom know you are posting instead of studying, son? Please educate yourself.

Posted by: GregP_ | October 6, 2008 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Heh. Ron Paulers have known about this for months. Kind of like the Bailout, and the Fed, and this expensive, stupid war.

You "Republicans" chose this man for "our" candidate, and in return, you will get a socialist for president. Nice f-ing job on the homework. We will all suffer, but we "Paultards" can just go back to our little caves and cry as this country tears itself apart.

Posted by: Mark W. | October 6, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Blue:

Sorry that capital letters enrages and confuses you. Ciao!

GregP:

No, how about your mother? As for our respective levels of education, I'll go first. I graduated from Stanford undergrad and Law School.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

So we are to the point of fact checking books written by the candidates. I eagerly await the fact check of Obama's books. When can we expect that Mr Dobbs?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Jake D - Sarah Palin may lie, but numbers don't. Her record speaks for itself:
2007: the year in which Sarah Palin first obtained a passport
312: the number of nights during her first 19 months in office that Palin charged taxpayers a "per diem" totaling $16,951 for staying in her own home -- an allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business
$500 to $1,200: the fee that Wasilla charged rape victims to pay for post-sexual assault medical exams, after the city cut funds during Palin's tenure that had previously covered the exams
$150: the cash payment offered by the Palin administration to hunters who turn in legs of freshly killed wolves gunned down from airplanes
3: the number of times during her first few weeks as mayor that Palin inquired with the Wasilla librarian about banning books
3: the number of months after the censorship discussion that Palin fired the librarian
100: the approximate number of Wasilla residents who rallied to support the librarian, prompting Palin to withdraw her termination letter
0: the number of foreign heads of state Palin has met
0: the number of commands Palin has issued as head of the Alaska National Guard
2: the number of times in Palin's ABC News interview that she said the word "nucular"

0: Wasilla's long-term debt when Palin took office in 1996
$18.6 million: the long-term debt Palin racked up by the time she left office in 2002, amounting to about $3,000 per resident
$50,000: the amount of city funds Palin used without authorization to redecorate the Wasilla mayor's office, including adding flocked, red wallpaper that made it look "like a bordello," according to a former Wasilla City Council member
33: the percentage by which Palin increased the budget of Wasilla during her tenure, despite billing herself as a fiscal conservative and champion of smaller government
25: the percentage by which Palin raised the local sales tax in Wasilla to pay for a sports center, despite claims that she cut taxes
$27 million: the total amount of federal earmarks Palin secured for Wasilla's town of 6,700 people while she was mayor, thanks to the help of a Washington lobbyist with ties to indicted Sen. Ted Stevens (R-AK) and convicted felon Jack Abramoff
3: the number of times John McCain specifically criticized earmarks requested by Sarah Palin when she was mayor of Wasilla, citing them as examples of wasteful spending
$453 million: the total amount of earmarks Palin has asked U.S. taxpayers to fund for Alaska projects over the past two years, despite McCain's insistence that she hasn't sought earmarks or special-interest spending from Congress
$506.34: the amount of federal earmarks Alaska residents will receive per capita in 2008, the highest level of any state
$223 million: the earmark secured for the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" that Palin initially supported before opposing

$223 million: the amount of money designated for the "Bridge to Nowhere" that Palin ultimately used for other projects, rather than returning it to the federal government
20: the percentage of domestic energy that Palin claims Alaska produces
3.5: the actual percentage share of domestic energy Alaska produces
0: the number of people in America who know more about energy than Sarah Palin, according to John McCain
$600,000: the loss at which Palin sold the governor's jet after making a show of placing it on eBay. It was eventually sold to a Palin campaign contributor who paid $2.1 million (more than 20% less than the original $2.7 million purchase price)
1: the number of private tanning beds Palin installed in the governor's mansion after taking office
1.5: the approximate number of hours Palin spent on a refueling layover in Ireland, which the McCain campaign cited as part of her foreign policy experience
0: the actual amount of time Palin spent in Iraq during a 2007 visit to the region, despite the McCain campaign's claim she had visited the Iraq battle zone. She never made it beyond the Khabari Alawazem Crossing in Kuwait.
2006: the year in which Palin declared she favors abstinence-only education and that "the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support"
2008: the year in which Palin's 17-year-old daughter was impregnated by a self-described "f***ing redneck," who wrote on his MySpace page "I don't want kids" and "ya f*** with me I'll kick a**"
9: the number of U.S. Geological Survey studies concluding that the habitat of Alaska's polar bears is threatened by global warming, which Palin discounted as "insufficent evidence" when she sued the Bush administration to overturn its decision to list polar bears under the Endangered Species Act
5: the number of colleges Palin attended over six years before graduating in 1987 from the University of Idaho with a major in journalism
500: the number of Fortune 500 companies Sarah Palin is not qualified to run, according to McCain adviser Carly Fiorina
50: the number of days after Palin announced she "will fully cooperate" with an ethics investigation into the "Troopergate" scandal that the McCain campaign announced she was "unlikely to cooperate" because it had been "hijacked" by Obama operatives. The probe was unanimously authorized by a bipartisan panel of eight Alaska Republicans and four Democrats.
28: the number of days prior to accepting the vice presidential offer that Palin said she couldn't entertain the idea "until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day"
15: the number of minutes McCain and Palin spent together during their only meeting prior to the interview in which McCain offered her the vice presidential slot

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else (other than Blue):

"I crashed a plane in Corpus Christi Bay one Saturday morning."

NOT A LIE.

"The engine quit while I was practicing landings ..."

NOT A LIE EITHER.

"I took a few painkillers and hit the sack to rest my aching back for a few hours ..."

NOT A LIE.

"I was out carousing, injured back and all, later that evening."

(Unfortunately) NOT A LIE.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

JakeD - I heard that lie already. You said you graduated from law school and quit "punching the clock" when you retired. Only blue collar uneducated folks "punch clocks" son. YOU are a JOE SIX PACK. Your failed arguments prove that!

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous:

Was any of that supposed to be a Palin "lie"?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Loved your post, Ex. My husband is an officer in the Navy, an Annapolis grad, and an Obama supporter, too! I wish more people realized that not everyone who wears a military uniform votes Republican. We appreciate McCain's heroism, but resent his long line of anti-vet votes over the years (the most recent being his lack of support for the new GI Bill).

Posted by: Thanks Ex Naval Pilot | October 6, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

fake JakeD:

I have never typed the words "quit punching the clock" -- before just now in this post -- so that must have been (a different?) fake JakeD. Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Message to Mr. McSame - Thank you for your heroic acts 40 years ago, assuming they did occur, which are now equally offset by the cynical and reckless act of chosing the Barracuda Bimbo for VP, who’s idea of national security is to keep an eye on Russia from her front lawn! As potential leader of the free world, please suggest to Palincomparison that she read a magazine or two before her next interview. She said Biden was dwelling on the past speaking of Bush, yet PalinBiden LIVE in the past on your old war hero stories and her baseless attacks on Obama. We need more than memorized sound bites and disassociated talking points slathered on top of a woefully uninformed, ignorant and myopic worldview to lead this country, don’t ya think, sir? Are you kidding me!!?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

I love to see my words in print. I dont care if you agree. I am a Joe Six Pack. Screw you lib lovers ! hahahaha

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

fake JakeD:

Pick a real name, and then I would be happy to debate you.

Thanks Ex Naval Pilot:

While I appreciate Ex-Navy Pilot and your husband's service too, that's no excuse to misrepresent McCain record, war or otherwise. He introduced a MORE GENEROUS bill based on the number of years served, since Sen. McCain (unlike Webb and Obama) was actually concerned about military's retention rates and the strength of our nation's defense. Webb's bill was an obvious backdoor attempt to cripple our mission in Iraq, thereby putting our servicemen and women at unnecessary risk. Sorry you can't see that. Maybe if you watch the debate tomorrow, you will see McCain address this and many other misrepresentations.

Once upon a time (before he bowed down to The One), Sen. Biden thought that type of politics was a bad idea.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

A friend of mine who was an Air Force pilot in Vietnam told me that the Navy was unloading a many bombs and rockets as possible. They wanted to deliver more tonage than the Air Force to impress Congress to get more appropriations. Hitting military targets was secondary. Innocent civilians were often hit, killed or injured. As in any country they were were treated first that explains McCain's untreated injury. It is hard to believe that being the son of an Admiral he was treated worse than other POW's

Posted by: toolatesmart | October 6, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

VOTE OBAMA!

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Fake jakeD -
get a life dood

I apologize, I was wrong. Just playin withya all cause Im a sixpacker!

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Fact #1 McCain is pro Israel our friend and ally .Obama is pro Palestinian as a 20 year member of the U.C.C church he attended,check out its mission statement,its pastors ,gay rights ...Farrakhan and all the such .Add that to Obamas Muslim stepfather and childhood,and his un American friends most all are Un patriotic ,un believably un American by any and all definitions , Which candidate could more easily win an election in Yemen or the West Bank and Gaza?

Posted by: Kevin P. | October 6, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

JakeD - you said you "punched the clock" a few days ago. You really are a dummy.

Posted by: Fake JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Although Obama is "clean" and "articulate" he "was wrong to vote against funding the troops" and is simply "not ready to lead yet."

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Fake JakeD:

No I did not (that must have been a different fake JakeD), so no I am not.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

THE Admiral SON.

In Oct. 26, 1967, the admiral's son while flying his 23rd mission over North Vietnam, once again fell from the sky, this time landing in the hands of a brutal enemy. He was beaten and bayoneted. His shoulder was smashed and his right calf was nearly perpendicular to his knee.
The severely wounded McCain was finally thrown on the back of a truck and hauled to the infamous Hanoi Hilton prison camp. Immediately, his captors began to interrogate him using sadistic methods they had perfected on hundreds of captured U.S. servicemen before him.

His interrogators demanded military information. When he refused, his guards kicked and pounded him mercilessly.
McCain admits that three to four days after he was captured, he promised the Vietnamese, "I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."
McCain also admits that the Vietnamese rushed him to a hospital, but denies he was given "special medical treatment" because of his promise.
He claims he was given medical care normally unavailable to captured Americans only because the Vietnamese learned he was the son of Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. forces in the Pacific including those fighting in Vietnam.

The Vietnamese figured that because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank that he was of royalty or the governing circle in the United States. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince"and treated him as a "special prisoner."

Less than two weeks after McCain was taken to a hospital, Hanoi's press began quoting him giving specific military information, including the name of the aircraft carrier on which he was based, numbers of U.S. pilots that had been lost, the number of aircraft in his flight, information about location of rescue ships and the order of which his attack was supposed to take place.
There is also evidence that McCain received "special" medical treatment from a Soviet physician.

After he was out of the hospital, McCain continued cooperating with the North Vietnamese for a period of three years. He made radio broadcasts for the communists and met with foreign delegations, including the Cubans. He was interviewed by at least two North Vietnamese generals one of whom was Vietnam's national hero, General Vo Nguyen Giap.

On June 4, 1969, a U.S. wire service story headlined "PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral," reported one of McCain's radio broadcasts: "Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of the United States commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner.
McCain says he violated the Code of Conduct only when the North Vietnamese brutally tortured him. He further claims that he was so distraught afterwards that he tried to commit suicide. He has never explained why his "aid to the enemy" continued for more than three years.

Even though there are no reports in the public record from other POWs who witnessed McCain's claims of torture and heroics or his attempted suicide, the American media has accepted his version of events word for word, no questions asked.

Yet, the same press that transformed the admiral's son into an "incredible war hero--an inspiration to all Americans," vilified the two grunts.
Comparing the incidents surrounding the fates of three POWs,' who collaborated with the enemy, makes one question why two faced possible execution for treason, while the third won acclaim as a hero fit to be President of the United States.
Once more, Lady Luck had smiled on John McCain . . . or was it the admiral?


Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Jake D - you are in love with yourself. Nobody else is. The reason is obvious.

Posted by: Fake JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

by Col. David H. Hackworth
John McCain is being hailed by the press as a "genuine war hero." But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?
Or is his "war hero" status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?
For sure, McCain has the fruitsalad a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.
On a purely medal count basis, he outweighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.
McCain's valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW.
In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I'm still waiting.
I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did.
None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnamera) POWs."
McCain's Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 the day after he was shot down to 8 December 1968 reads: "His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese.
Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."
A Vietnam vet detractor says, "He received the nation's third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!"
The rest of his valor awards issued automatically every year while he was a POW read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: "By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces."
Yet McCain's conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement.
Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts. 
A former POW says "No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell."
The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors. And they're not talking.
Our POWs in Vietnam were treated appallingly. The Viets would either break a POW or kill him. POWs provided info beyond name, rank and serial number or they didn't come back.
Based on these stalwart men's horrific experiences, the Code of Conduct has been changed. A POW says, "Now the training is to give them something… don't risk permanent damage to health, mind or body." 
McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders."
McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.
David H. Hackworth died in June 2005, he was a much-decorated and highly unconventional former career Army officer who became a combat legend in Vietnam. Col. Hackworth received 78 combat awards — including a Distinguished Service Cross, a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and eight Purple Hearts — during his 25-year military career which spanned the Korean and Vietnam wars..

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Back to Biden quotes:

"I am not going to fail to protect these kids as long as we have a single, solitary troop in Iraq," said Biden during a Sept. 9, 2007 appearance on "Meet the Press."

"This isn’t cutting off the war," he added. "This is cutting off support that will save the lives of thousands of American troops."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkAQrSEeDWQ

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Is that we have left now, fake JakeD and Anonymous posts? Maybe "comment registration" will get back the the "Fact" Checker someday.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

"My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident."

John McCain seems to have a pattern of this. Clowning and gambling and basically putting others in danger with his recklessness. The fact that he lied straight out about the cause of this crash puts in doubt his honesty on other statements, in my view.

Posted by: Mark | October 6, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Mark:

"I crashed a plane in Corpus Christi Bay one Saturday morning."

NOT A LIE.

"The engine quit while I was practicing landings ..."

NOT A LIE EITHER.

"I took a few painkillers and hit the sack to rest my aching back for a few hours ..."

NOT A LIE.

"I was out carousing, injured back and all, later that evening."

(Unfortunately) NOT A LIE.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Even if the engine was still producing power, McCain honestly believes the engine "quit" so it can't be a "lie" -- worse case, he's simply mistaken -- look up the definition of "lie" if you don't believe me. Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Jamie: What century are you living in? "Socialize" America? Are you an idiot? Did the Bush admin just ask for the U.S. govt to essentially take over Wall Street?

This is not 1984. If you want to talk like an uneducated peasant, talk about something else. You sound an awful lot like that fool Jake D.

Posted by: McCain lies | October 6, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

"McCain honestly believes the engine "quit""

Are you implying Sen McCain is unaware of the results of the incident investigation?

"The official Navy report into the Corpus Christi accident on March 12, 1960, concludes that the AD-6 Skyraider trainer crashed because McCain failed to "maintain an airspeed above the stall speed." It attributed the accident to "the preoccupation of the pilot coupled with a power setting too low to maintain level flight." "

Perhaps we ought to get him up to speed so he can stop "believing" something false. It could get embarrassing for him.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

How did he get into Pensacola after graduating 5th bottom out of 899 at Annapolis?

A bad case of affirmative action gone wrong.

Posted by: Prem | October 6, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

In McCain's interview with Spanish psychiatrist Dr. Fernando Barral on January 24, 1970, McCain's brags that he is one of the Navy's best pilots. He goes on to disclose the Chain of Command for prosecuting the Vietnam War.

Perhaps, the press could ask McCain about this claim.

It goes like this: McCain, God, Country...the rest of you be damned.

Posted by: Sailor553 | October 6, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Helen, Thank you very much for that post you wrote earlier today. I also think your friend is a hero.

Jake D: You are in serious need of some prozac, or a good detox. A laxative might also be helpful

Posted by: mc cain lies | October 6, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Regardless of your personal opinion about H&R Block, the per diem expense was completely legal and would withstand audit.
Posted by: JakeD | October 4, 2008 1:24 PM
============
zuckermand:
What part of the Alaska director of finance saying the per diem payments being completely legal don't you understand?
Posted by: JakeD | October 4, 2008 3:52 PM
============
1. Who said the per diem were illegal? Brad and I agree they ought to have been included in taxable income. Are you pretending to misunderstand?

Posted by: zukermand | October 4, 2008 5:00 PM
====================
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/06/questions-linger-about-palin-taxes/
October 6, 2008, 3:19 pm
Questions Linger About Palin Taxes
By Leslie Wayne
Now that tax attorneys have had a chance to review Gov. Sarah Palin’s tax returns, which were released late last week, a new round of questions are being raised on tax-related websites.
One big issue that tax attorneys are pointing to is the fact that the Palins did not report as income the $43,490 that the state gave the family to cover travel expenses for Mr. Palin and the Palin children. Had the Palins reported these payments as income, the couple would have had to pay taxes on it.
These tax attorneys note that neither Mr. Palin nor the children were employees of the state. Nor were they traveling on behalf of the state. There was some discussion that perhaps some portion of Mr. Palin’s travel expenses might be excludable as income if there was a bona-fide business reason for his presence and if he assisted Mrs. Palin in her official duties.
But there was also uniform agreement that it would be hard to make a case for the not reporting the payments to the children as income...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

that was me, obviously.

Posted by: zukermand | October 6, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Jordan: Thanks for pointing out the parts of the Couric interview that never aired. Now I am REALLY voting for Obama! Did you read what she said? They were empty words with no meaning. She is an idiot. SHe is spectacularly unprepared to be the Veep. Not only that, she pals around with domestic terrorists - her husband's successionist crowd, and that preacher from Kenya who thinks he can tell the difference between an ordinary woman and a witch! Are you kidding me with all this socialism crap? Please get a grip on your thought processes!

Posted by: McCain lies | October 6, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

The very things that made McCain a successful fighter pilot make him unsuited to be presidemt. A fighter pilot must make split second decisions. There is no time for thoughtful planning. There is a reason why the previous military presidents were generals. Generals are thoughtful planners. John McCain has run his campaign just like a fighter pilot - moving quickly from one instant decision to the next. This is not what I want leading our country. I want someone capable of looking thoughfully at the future, taking in alturnative ideas and proceeding with the best plan. That is why I want Obama - a thoughtful man in the top office. And Sara Palin has just shown herself to be an attack dog - nothing more.

Posted by: linda mack | October 6, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Well, McCain keeps playing the POW card; his speech pattern is noun/verb/POW. How many years since his stay at the Hanoi Hilton? While we honor his service to a nation, his service does not give him a free pass to the Oval Office desk and chair.

Posted by: Black and Bitter Like Coffee | October 6, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

A friend of mine who was an Air Force pilot in Vietnam told me that the Navy was unloading a many bombs and rockets as possible. They wanted to deliver more tonage than the Air Force to impress Congress to get more appropriations. Hitting military targets was secondary. Innocent civilians were often hit, killed or injured. As in any country they were were treated first that explains McCain's untreated injury. It is hard to believe that being the son of an Admiral he was treated worse than other POW's

Posted by: toolatesmart | October 6, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Poster Ria is lucky she doesn't have to be able to spell to cast a vote. She'd be in a world of hurt. She'd better examine the character of McCain which includes adultery, betrayl of trust, repeated swearing (including f--bombs) on the floor of the US Senate, tendency to lose his temper, Keating 5 scandal involvement.
Add the health issue of 3 bouts with squamous, basal cell and stage 2 melanoma and an age of 72 with a male side of his family not exhibiting longevity and there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE that Sarah Palin would be POTUS. Is this what you really want?

Posted by: ernieson | October 6, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

When asked by Couric about Supreme Court decisions she disagreed with, other than Roe v. Wade, she drew a blank. One would think that a creationist might have some thoughts on Scopes v. Tenn.

Posted by: Turk | October 6, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

You guys need to get a life.

Peace, out

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Turk:

One would probably think about an actual Supreme Court case like Epperson or Edwards v. Aguillard.

zuckermand:

This thread is about McCain fudging his Navy record, but I would be glad to continue our scintilating debate over on that thread whether Palin fudged her taxes.

Posted by: JakeD | October 6, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Twinkie

Posted by: Anonymous | October 6, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Another incompetent clown who failed upwards due to powerful father and grandfather. Just what we need another 4 years of.

Posted by: aleks | October 6, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

et617nvh7t719xk4 http://www.978660.com/320826.html > 4mypi9kq [URL=http://www.460017.com/179461.html] n6ppvmeur [/URL] kgnioqr7xwzstv3

Posted by: oe3l0abvou | October 6, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Independent voters are starting to swing behind Barack Obama and Joe Biden, who continue to benefit from economic turmoil and the public response to their debate performances, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll.

The survey, conducted over the weekend, was full of good news for the Democratic presidential ticket. Sen. Obama increased his advantage over Republican rival John McCain when voters were asked which candidate they prefer to handle economic issues. At the same time, a growing percentage of voters said the economy is their top concern heading into the election.

New Poll: Data Drilldown
Review the demographic breakdown of voters backing each candidate.

View Interactive

Full Poll Results | Poll ArchiveReal Time Econ: Dour Voters Blame EveryoneWash Wire: Democrats Win DebatesVoters were much more likely to say they felt good about Sen. Obama's handling of the current economic crisis than they were to say the same of Sen. McCain. About one in three voters said they were "more reassured" by Sen. Obama versus just 25% who said that about Sen. McCain. Even worse, 38% of poll participants reported being "less reassured" by Sen. McCain's approach.

Sens. Obama and Biden have a six-point lead, with 49% of registered voters saying they would vote for them, compared with 43% for Sen. McCain and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. That is up from a two-point advantage in the previous Journal poll, two weeks ago, and parallels other recent national polls. The survey has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.8 percentage points.

"McCain has absorbed a very tough one-two punch -- the financial crisis, then the debates," said Neil Newhouse, a Republican pollster who conducts the survey with Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart. "These two things have clearly led to a momentum shift in this campaign where Obama has started to slowly stretch his lead."

Independent voters are among the most important voting blocs because many of them would consider voting for either candidate. In the Journal/NBC poll two weeks ago, independents favored Sen. McCain by 13 points. The new survey finds Sen. Obama leading by four points.

Obama Widens Lead in Latest Poll
2:01
WSJ deputy Washington bureau chief Jacob Schlesinger talks about the latest WSJ/NBC poll which shows an Obama-Biden ticket leading McCain-Palin by a six point margin, 49% to 43%. (Oct. 6)
Still, with a month to go, the topsy-turvy presidential campaign could shift again. While voters said by a 50%-to-29% margin that they thought Sens. Obama and Biden did "a better job in the debates," two presidential debates remain. Starting with the town-hall session Tuesday evening in Nashville, Tenn., Sen. McCain has new opportunities to make a stronger impression -- and Sen. Obama has a fresh chance to make a mistake.

Cautionary notes remain for Sen. Obama. The poll suggests that the first African-American to win a major-party nomination could be vulnerable to race-based attacks tying him to unpopular black figures such as the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, his former pastor, and Al Sharpton, an outspoken and controversial figure.

Thirty-five percent of all voters -- and 40% of white voters -- said those connections bother them. This is absent any candidate or party pressing hard on those themes, which Republicans have hinted they may start to raise more aggressively in the campaign's closing days.


AFP/Getty Images
Barack Obama points to staff in the kitchen as he buys lunch at 12 Bones Smokehouse in Asheville, N.C.
A focus group conducted last week in St. Louis by Mr. Hart and sponsored by the Annenberg Public Policy Center underscored the point. Several participants said they knew people who wouldn't support Sen. Obama because he is black. "There's a whole lot more racism than we know, but they just keep quiet," said Bridget Cromer, 56 years old, a Democrat from Chesterfield, Mo. That sentiment was shared by nine of 12 voters on the panel.

The poll, taken just after Congress passed the financial rescue package Friday, showed that voters were divided about the bailout. While grass-roots anger helped lead to the bill's defeat in the House earlier in the week, the survey, taken after a week of slumping financial markets, showed that voters narrowly supported the package: 40% said they approved; 38% disapproved. A separate question showed more acceptance of the deal: 54% said that while the bill "was not the best approach," it was "necessary." Eleven percent said the bill was "the right approach" outright, and 29% said the "problem should have been left to the private sector."

Congress's handling of the package seems to have damaged its already tarnished standing. Voters registered record-low approval numbers for Congress and showed vast disapproval for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.).

The biggest political loser from the crisis may be Sen. McCain. Voters who said it personally affected them favored Sen. Obama by 15 percentage points.

Sen. Obama improved his standing with voters across the board. Men, for instance, typically favor Republicans, and sided with President George W. Bush by 11 percentage points in 2004. In the Journal poll two weeks ago, Sen. McCain led among male voters by five points. In this poll, the two candidates were tied among men.

Posted by: psr | October 7, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Helllooooo?

Has no one seen the Manchurian Candidate?

How soon till Johnnny gets "activated"?

Posted by: Frank Sinatra | October 7, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Anonymous,

I don't know why you won't give your name but your knowledge of McCain's military record is absolutely correct and proves you care enough about this country to do the homework necessary to make an informed decision. I respect that and wish JakeD and many others would do the same rather than rely on their preconceived notions, right wing pap and McCain's unsubstantiated claims of his own heroism to make theirs. That kind of lazy patriotism is what bought us the last eight years.

Posted by: David Dial | October 7, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

aleks:

If you mean more Supreme Court Justices like Alito and Roberts, oh no, God forbid!

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Some things are not debatable.


"McCain honestly believes the engine "quit""

"The official Navy report into the Corpus Christi accident on March 12, 1960, concludes that the AD-6 Skyraider trainer crashed because McCain failed to "maintain an airspeed above the stall speed." It attributed the accident to "the preoccupation of the pilot coupled with a power setting too low to maintain level flight." "


You believe he believes something which is false. Is he in denial or is one of you lying?

Posted by: zukermand | October 7, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Hey, Anonymous, maybe I do know why you don't use your real name. Is it Colin Powell?

Posted by: David Dial | October 7, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

A good flight instructor would have washed McCain out after his first mental mistake, and not is first mental mistake in an airplane. It seems pretty clear that McCain was pushed through the academy because of who his father and grandfather were, and he wasn't grounded as a pilot for the same reason. My dad was a military flight instructor, and he would wash you out after your first mental mistake. No reflection of his ability as a politician, even though I'm not endorsing Obama in this message, but clowns and partyers get washed out in pilot training for their own good. The air and sea are unforgiving.

Posted by: Tim | October 7, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Assuming he knows what the official report says, he was flying the plane and believes the engine quit. Does that answer your question?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Screw both candidates. Vote Stephen Colbert in 08 and tell both parties to go screw themselves. Or, vote for another candidate you actually like. Vote how you want to, not how you're told to by your party.

Posted by: Some Guy | October 7, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

ACCEPTING CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM ASSOCIATES OF KNOWN TERRORISTS?

The Ayers-Weber-McCain connection. Truth? Guilt by Association? We report. YOU Decide!

Arnold R. "Arnie" Weber is a Chicago Annenberg Board Member and Chicago "insider". He was a part of the Nixon White House. Arnie Weber has held other Washington "insider" jobs too. He is a LONGTIME REPUBLICAN DONOR. But get this: Arnie Weber was a BOARD MEMBER of the infamous **CHICAGO ANNNENBERG CHALLENGE** organization, which was founded by known "TERRORIST" Bill Ayers!

Sarah Palin was using "guilt by association". This, however, is a two way street but Gov. Palin may not understand this.

NEW INFORMATION SHOWS THAT JOHN MCCAIN HAS ACCEPTED "TAINTED" CAMPAIGN MONEY FROM ARNIE WEBER, AN ASSOCIATE OF BILL AYERS.

Arnie Weber has given the maximum legal amount of $1,500 to the McCain campaign in 2008. He probably would have given more if allowed by law. In 2008, Arnie Weber made two separate donations of $1,000 and $500 to McCain’s presidential campaign run by EX-LOBBYIST AND WASHINGTON INSIDER RICK DAVIS.

I demand that Senator McCain denounce this man, Arnie Weber, and his associations to "terrorists" (as defined by his vice-president, Sarah Palin). I call on Senator McCain to reject these tainted donations. John McCain should then investigate how such a thing could possibly happen inside HIS OWN CAMPAIGN before seeking to cast stones at Senator Obama. McCain's campaign CEO, RICK DAVIS, needs to explain to the AMERICAN VOTERS his reasons for accepting this dirty money. Are they really that desperate to win this election? Doesn't John McCain still believe in the honor that he felt when defending this country against the enemy in Vietnam where he served as a prisoner of war for years?

THE "LIBERAL MEDIA" SHOULD ASK JOHN MCCAIN WHY HE ACCEPTED THIS TAINTED CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THIS "TERRORIST" ASSOCIATE. Incredible as it may sound, Arnie Weber doesn't even DENY that he ASSOCIATED FOR YEARS with a "KNOWN TERRORIST".

This is probably because he hasn't been asked.

Now for the reality check: It turns out that these types of "facts" are simply BASELESS SMEAR ATTACKS WITH NO MERIT! Yes. It is true. Attacks like this are meant to distract the uninformed voters near the end of an election. We don't hear about them very often because most candidates have too much integrity to run them. They know that winning an election based on lies is unacceptable. Besides, people want to talk about REAL issues affecting REAL lives, not play a game of "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon".

Random associations are EASY to find. For instance, it turns out that you can trace Obama's FAMILY TREE to both George W. Bush (10th cousins once removed) and Dick Cheney (eighth cousins). Yep! They are legally RELATIVES. This is yet another useless "fact" for Trivial Pursuit lovers, but it is not worthy of any media time in this national election for the greatest country on God's green earth.

If you want some more guilt by association, here is something to find out for yourself. Who said this? Who supports this guy and his political party? "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag."

Guilt by association is an attack on voters and on the electoral process. Voters need to learn about the issues. Governor Palin should apologize for raising this STUPID guilt by association tactic against Senator Obama. And if she REALLY believes what she is saying, she REALLY should demand that they return "Arnie" Weber's campaign donations. Seriously. To do anything short of that would be blatant hypocrisy.

"Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it." [John McCain - The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer - 2/21/2000]

Posted by: Define The Word Terrorist | October 7, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse

JakeD - debating with you is like arguing with George W Bush about why he lied us into the IRAQ war. You will never succumb to reason, so it is an exersise in futility. You are a lying dem hating fool, that spouts off whatever nonsense FOX news feeds you. You are a dumbass parrot of the GOP spinmeisters.

Posted by: GregP | October 7, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

I think John Mccain is a good man. He is an experienced elder Christian who should be the leader of a Christian nation. Barrack Hussein Obama is a Muslim terrorist sympathizer who did not fly a plane. But Obama id smoke some crack. I don't think Mccain is lying about the incident with the plane. It is always "pilot error" just like the Maryland Police Helicopter that crashed last week. The "suits" never admit that weather or mechanical defects were the problems.

Posted by: Joe Bloise | October 7, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse

no. Does he dispute the report? Perhaps you have a link.

Good night.

Posted by: zukermand | October 7, 2008 1:13 AM | Report abuse

Still think McCain hasn't fudged his Navy record? Here's what the LA Time is reporting:

Corpus Christi, Texas, March 12, 1960

McCain was practicing landings in his AD-6 Skyraider over Corpus Christi Bay when he lost several hundred feet of altitude "without realizing it" and struck the water, according to the Naval Aviation Safety Center accident report on file at the Naval Historical Center in Washington.

The plane, a single-engine propeller plane designed for ground attack, sank 10 feet to the bottom of the bay. McCain swam to the surface and was plucked from the water by a rescue helicopter.

While he has contended that the engine quit, investigators collected extensive evidence indicating otherwise. Cockpit instruments that froze on impact showed the engine was still producing power. When water quenched the exhaust stack, it preserved a bright blue color, showing that the engine was still hot. And an aviator behind McCain reported that the engine was producing the black smoke characteristic of Skyraiders.

Investigators determined that McCain was watching instruments in his cockpit that indicated the position of his landing gear and had lost track of his altitude and speed.

The report concluded: "In the opinion of the board, the pilot's preoccupation in the cockpit . . . coupled with the use of a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn were the primary causes of this accident."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-aviator6-2008oct06,0,6965500,full.story

Posted by: Citizen of Chicago | October 7, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse

GregP:

I didn't even watch Fox News today. You will note that I don't resort to personal attacks against you. If you don't want to answer my questions (even though I answered yours) no skin off my nose.

zuckermand:

I don't accept your premise but nonetheless still tried to answer the question (kinda like "have you stopped beating your wife?"). I do not have a link to any formal dispute or appeal McCain filed, but he wrote in his book that the "engine quit". That seems to me to be an informal dispute. YMMV

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 1:59 AM | Report abuse

Why do many of you pass judgement upon matters which you have no direct personal knowlege of? I am a Vietnam veteran, just as some of you! McCain may well have his faults, but at least he put his butt on the line, as those of us who were there can attest. But for those who have never been anything more than an armed chair quarterback, please refrain from drawing erroneous conclusions which are merely inflamatory.

This entire article is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. So, his plane stalled and sank into the ocean, where it was obvious that they could not determine accurately if the engine did in fact fail.

If any of you know anything about the policy of the Navy concerning these things,(back then) get a clue, they usually fall back on the common reply..."Pilot Error!"

As I said before, this is not a Sporting Event, where you support your "team" with blind loyalty, right or wrong. It is apparent to me that many of you have blinders on. You hope to make things better for this country, yourselves, and your family, by supporting the man or woman whom you beleive spins the best "yarn". Nothing wrong with that desire, not at all.

But, if you are backing B. Hussein Obama, you're backing the wrong horse. I wont sit here and praise McCain, nor will I proclaim the virtues of Palin. But as an experienced criminal and civil investigator of 32 years I check out (in depth) the candidates political philosophy's, their moral values, and of course their suitability for the office. I don't walk around with my head in the clouds like some of you!

I never vote "party line." That is the stupidest and most naiive practice anyone can engage in. Obama is not an ethical man! He is a socialist, and he will bring in a socialist form of government. He has supported every "left wing" program that came across his desk.

If you desire a man who promotes immorality, then he's your man. If you want to stand by while he promotes the shedding of "innocent blood" through rampant abortions, partial birth abortions and radical extremism, go for it! But I assure you, he will not be watching out for you, but rather, he'll be serving the desires of his own belly.

Posted by: Jordan | October 7, 2008 2:04 AM | Report abuse

COl Hackworth

I find your comments and conclusions somewhat dubious and questionable! In point of fact, you do not sound like a man who has attained the rank of colonel. Audy Murphy was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor and none of McCains meritorious awards come close to trumping that! Contrary to your stated conclusions.

I too was in the Nam! (two tours) So I find your comments contemptable. A man will break or die as you said, while in confinement and under horrific torture. You may speak your poisonous divel when you have endured what they endured at the Hanoi Hilton! To me, you're nothjing more than counterfeit soldier.

Posted by: Jordan | October 7, 2008 2:29 AM | Report abuse

All those against John McCain have been brainwashed by the unamerican democratic left wing. They are the same ones who for the last eight years have trashed George Bush. None of these people would make a pimple on either ones ass. The smart americans will not vote for Obama so if John McCain looses then the dumbasses win.

Posted by: drcusmc | October 7, 2008 2:45 AM | Report abuse

For starters John Sidney McCain the third is an elite son and grand son of admirals with Washington D.C political and military connections. That status quo in it self gave him preferential treatment all his life.

2. His admission to the Naval Academy and subsequent graduation #895 out of 899, as per his class mate was a favor to his admiral grand father and politically/Navy Connected father, how often showed up and intervened while McCain would have been discharged and dismissed.

3. The substandard McCain was preferentially treated to enroll in the naval aviation training. His mistreatment of aircraft and destruction is a pattern unequaled by anybody in his class and unprecedented. Any body else would have lost his wings or training status after the second incident in VA, where this boozer bailed out and letting his plane crash.

4. The US Navy in most instances altered and sanitized his record. What ever has been found and collaborated by others it is clear that first three incidences were McCain's personal fault.

THIS SOB CANNOT HIDE and NOT LET THE US NAVY OPEN THESE RECORDS.

www.usvettdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.html.

www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html.
is by by Dr. Phillip Butler one of McCain's very own class mates. Who was later a POW himself.

others in this sequence include:

www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified.html.

As far as the fiasco aboard the Carrier USS FORRESTAL there are unpublished US Navy reports and People like Senator WEBB the earlier Sec. OF NAVY, well aware off.

4. That McCain disobeyed direct orders to remove the oversize and overweight 1000 LB bombs that his jet fighter was not outfitted for. The fact that this hot head SOB "wet fired" his engines is a undisputed fact established but the commission that investigated the incident. The ultra hot flaming exhaust from McCain's aircraft is what set of the so called stray rocket that slammed into the awaiting jet fighter. The ensuing explosions by the two 1000 Lb bombs from McCain's aircraft and the ensuing fire killed the 134 Navy personnel, maimed, crippled and severely injured 161 other and causing tens of billions in damage to the Carrier is McCain's fault. That SOB should have been COURT MARTIALLED. BUt this was Vietnam Era and he was a son of the admiral with political and Navy connections.

5. The Clip http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7610891/stm.

recently discovered by a Swedish reporter but avoided by the US media is sufficient proof that (a) McCain at the time of his release did not suffer and problems with his arms and is clearly shown performing a full salute twice. Let the world see that if this SOB deny that fact and also the state of his stolid state then. He disembarks from a Bush unaided ( no crutches) but limping, on account of his injuries suffered when he bailed out. This was about the 3rd or 4th time that he bailed out and this time in a real war situation and as they say in the Navy bought his lunch.

6. Let us see the Navy/ US Air Force and the high ranking Air force deny this particular. Clip

5. There are other much higher Military officers who were POW much longer then McCain that dispute McCain's version of the FIVE Years, as does the Vietnamese Prison Commander, who later McCain hugged. These contradictions just prove that McCain the fake war hero his a pure simple LAIR.

6. About a month after his release McCain is shown in pictures as he was ushered before Nixon. Now he is on crutches and in Uniform three sizes too big. Around this time the SOB was declared 100% disabled and as per Navy and DOD regulations, he should have been discharged, as were others. But at this time to save face the Nixon Administration that accepted defeat needed war heroes to appease the US public and McCain, the son of the admiral with his hideous and dubious conduct was a prefect candidate for such honors of getting wrapped in the flag and farting patriotism, that he and other like him have been doing ever since. While the real over 58,000 are listed on that Vietnam memorial and over million others are rotting in the slums, skid rows and homeless ward of the streets of this great country of ours. It was the great conservative republican Reagan that dumped these misfits of that crazy Asian war on the streets of Washington and other great cities of this country. McCain for his part has always voted against benefits for these poor refuse of America.

7. The US Navy should explain why was McCain decorated with 28 medals for his 25 hours of bombing missions, cherry picking civilian targets over Hanoi and N. Vietnam, which resulted in the death of thousands of poor women and children, that McCain the hot shot gun ho bombed from the air. Following the orders of then Commander in Chief LBJ. The premise of this all out bombing was that cooked up attack on a US destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin. That actually never took place. Hence decorating the SOBs like McCain at that time was just par for course for the Nixon Administration to save face.

8. McCain may have been entitled to a promotion to a full commander, but the son of the admiral was not entitled to name his own assignment and admission to the War College, a place where only high ranking military officers with merit and distinction were admitted. McCain's were #895 out 0f 899 in his class at the academy, destruction of five aircraft and 5 years as a POW.

9. After 9 months of R and R at the War College, with out any merits or doing absolutely nothing the son of the admiral was again promoted to the rank of full captain and appointed Naval Liaison to the US Senate. A job for which the SOB had no training or experience. In fact, he was nothing but a special aid to that other Navy hack, the boozer and womanizer Senator John Tower, the then Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. McCain as his aid gained all that foreign policy experience buy providing booze and women for John Tower and Gart Hart in places like Saudi Arabia.

10 To preserve and protect his code of honor and being a gentleman and an officer, McCain ditched his crippled wife in favor of the rich rodeo queen Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his Jr. The daughter of Jim Hensley, the felon and AZ / Las Vegas mafia associate. Who along with his brother were convicted by a federal jury. Let the world see if either McCain or his drug addict criminal wife deny this.

http://www. dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html/

Let McCain the same SOB who called his wife a Cu** also deny

www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/arachives/13582.html.


As far as the Pentecostal Evangelical, hypocrite Sunday Christian the madam Palin the Governor with her lying big mouth all decent folk absolutely need to read the following editorial from her Anchorage Daily News.

www.adn.com/opinion/story/537723.html

Posted by: winemaster2 | October 7, 2008 2:53 AM | Report abuse

For starters John Sidney McCain the third is an elite son and grand son of admirals with Washington D.C political and military connections. That status quo in it self gave him preferential treatment all his life.

2. His admission to the Naval Academy and subsequent graduation #895 out of 899, as per his class mate was a favor to his admiral grand father and politically/Navy Connected father, how often showed up and intervened while McCain would have been discharged and dismissed.

3. The substandard McCain was preferentially treated to enroll in the naval aviation training. His mistreatment of aircraft and destruction is a pattern unequaled by anybody in his class and unprecedented. Any body else would have lost his wings or training status after the second incident in VA, where this boozer bailed out and letting his plane crash.

4. The US Navy in most instances altered and sanitized his record. What ever has been found and collaborated by others it is clear that first three incidences were McCain's personal fault.

THIS SOB CANNOT HIDE and NOT LET THE US NAVY OPEN THESE RECORDS.

www.usvettdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.html.

www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html.
is by by Dr. Phillip Butler one of McCain's very own class mates. Who was later a POW himself.

others in this sequence include:

www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified.html.

As far as the fiasco aboard the Carrier USS FORRESTAL there are unpublished US Navy reports and People like Senator WEBB the earlier Sec. OF NAVY, well aware off.

4. That McCain disobeyed direct orders to remove the oversize and overweight 1000 LB bombs that his jet fighter was not outfitted for. The fact that this hot head SOB "wet fired" his engines is a undisputed fact established but the commission that investigated the incident. The ultra hot flaming exhaust from McCain's aircraft is what set of the so called stray rocket that slammed into the awaiting jet fighter. The ensuing explosions by the two 1000 Lb bombs from McCain's aircraft and the ensuing fire killed the 134 Navy personnel, maimed, crippled and severely injured 161 other and causing tens of billions in damage to the Carrier is McCain's fault. That SOB should have been COURT MARTIALLED. BUt this was Vietnam Era and he was a son of the admiral with political and Navy connections.

5. The Clip http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7610891/stm.

recently discovered by a Swedish reporter but avoided by the US media is sufficient proof that (a) McCain at the time of his release did not suffer and problems with his arms and is clearly shown performing a full salute twice. Let the world see that if this SOB deny that fact and also the state of his stolid state then. He disembarks from a Bush unaided ( no crutches) but limping, on account of his injuries suffered when he bailed out. This was about the 3rd or 4th time that he bailed out and this time in a real war situation and as they say in the Navy bought his lunch.

6. Let us see the Navy/ US Air Force and the high ranking Air force deny this particular. Clip

5. There are other much higher Military officers who were POW much longer then McCain that dispute McCain's version of the FIVE Years, as does the Vietnamese Prison Commander, who later McCain hugged. These contradictions just prove that McCain the fake war hero his a pure simple LAIR.

6. About a month after his release McCain is shown in pictures as he was ushered before Nixon. Now he is on crutches and in Uniform three sizes too big. Around this time the SOB was declared 100% disabled and as per Navy and DOD regulations, he should have been discharged, as were others. But at this time to save face the Nixon Administration that accepted defeat needed war heroes to appease the US public and McCain, the son of the admiral with his hideous and dubious conduct was a prefect candidate for such honors of getting wrapped in the flag and farting patriotism, that he and other like him have been doing ever since. While the real over 58,000 are listed on that Vietnam memorial and over million others are rotting in the slums, skid rows and homeless ward of the streets of this great country of ours. It was the great conservative republican Reagan that dumped these misfits of that crazy Asian war on the streets of Washington and other great cities of this country. McCain for his part has always voted against benefits for these poor refuse of America.

7. The US Navy should explain why was McCain decorated with 28 medals for his 25 hours of bombing missions, cherry picking civilian targets over Hanoi and N. Vietnam, which resulted in the death of thousands of poor women and children, that McCain the hot shot gun ho bombed from the air. Following the orders of then Commander in Chief LBJ. The premise of this all out bombing was that cooked up attack on a US destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin. That actually never took place. Hence decorating the SOBs like McCain at that time was just par for course for the Nixon Administration to save face.

8. McCain may have been entitled to a promotion to a full commander, but the son of the admiral was not entitled to name his own assignment and admission to the War College, a place where only high ranking military officers with merit and distinction were admitted. McCain's were #895 out 0f 899 in his class at the academy, destruction of five aircraft and 5 years as a POW.

9. After 9 months of R and R at the War College, with out any merits or doing absolutely nothing the son of the admiral was again promoted to the rank of full captain and appointed Naval Liaison to the US Senate. A job for which the SOB had no training or experience. In fact, he was nothing but a special aid to that other Navy hack, the boozer and womanizer Senator John Tower, the then Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. McCain as his aid gained all that foreign policy experience buy providing booze and women for John Tower and Gart Hart in places like Saudi Arabia.

10 To preserve and protect his code of honor and being a gentleman and an officer, McCain ditched his crippled wife in favor of the rich rodeo queen Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his Jr. The daughter of Jim Hensley, the felon and AZ / Las Vegas mafia associate. Who along with his brother were convicted by a federal jury. Let the world see if either McCain or his drug addict criminal wife deny this.

http://www. dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html/

Let McCain the same SOB who called his wife a Cu** also deny

www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/arachives/13582.html.


As far as the Pentecostal Evangelical, hypocrite Sunday Christian the madam Palin the Governor with her lying big mouth all decent folk absolutely need to read the following editorial from her Anchorage Daily News.

www.adn.com/opinion/story/537723.html

Posted by: winemaster2 | October 7, 2008 3:37 AM | Report abuse

Ever wonder why the campaign will not release his complete Service Record?
PAST IS PROLOG
There were over 400 men held by the NVC. The torture they inflicted on these men was harsh, but they stuck to the Code of Honor. Then came a young man a pilot who was shot down. He was in need of medical help, so to get the help he wanted he abandoned the CODE. With information from that man, the NVC moved their anti-aircraft guns to the flight paths provided by this man and many a pilot died. When the prisoners were released they were given promotions for their time in prison. John Sydney McCain when released was NOT provided with a promotion. Do you dare take a jab at the reason?

McCain / Palin

LIES before HONOR

Posted by: Kim | October 7, 2008 4:33 AM | Report abuse

Jordon:

Hackworth is dead.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 5:14 AM | Report abuse

he lied his way all this far. its time to put an end to his tracks. http://www.outbackcoupons.net/

Posted by: nigadu | October 7, 2008 5:17 AM | Report abuse

Please take a moment and step away from these distractions thrown at the American people in an attempt to conceal the true issues facing us this election. Please, as a proud American, I beseech everyone to ignore the "personal attacks," the "he-said, she-said" comments, the attempts to demean another individual by bringing up previous encounters with "unsavory" individuals from their past.

Any presidential candidate that espouses comments that directly violate the Constitution (including its Articles and Amendments) is not worthy the sacrifice of holding the highest Executive office in the United States.

Between 2001 and 2008, George Bush has trampled the separation of powers instilled in the Constitution as a means of keeping the Executive Branch, with its control of the Military and Police, from becoming a dictatorship or Elected Oppressive state. He has done this with the assistance of a Republican Congress followed by a Democratic Congress.

The Republicans, in their ever-proclaimed attempt to limit government, allowed George Bush to suspend Habeas Corpus, condone torture of foreign nationals (and possibly American Citizens), and commit "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" in the purposeful deceit of the Congress and people of the United States to launch a personal War of Aggression against a Sovereign Nation (as recognized by the United Nations and previous American Presidents). Such actions resulted in the deaths of over 4,000 American Citizens; who have been deprived of Life and Liberty for a War of Personal Vengeance.

The Republican Congress, so Hellbent on bringing William Clinton to Impeachment over lying under oath about an Extra-marital affair, sat idly by while American boys and girls, still in their teens, fought and died for a lie.

The Democratic Congress, having since taken the majority of seats in the House of Representatives and House of the Senate, have chosen a coward's path and decided not to Rock the Boat, as to maintain their delicate grasp of power. As accessories after the fact, they are nearly as guilty as George Bush for not immediately pushing for his Impeachment, Removal from Office, and a possible Trial of War Crimes before a World Court.

Now, we stand on the Threshold of our Age; a hair's width from a World War in the Middle East, and past the cusp of a new Depression back home. The acts of the current Administration, coupled with the assistance of a Republican Congress, and the following complacency of a Democratic Congress have resulted in the bankruptcy of the American Economy; and most importantly, the Bankruptcy of America's Hope.

The time has past for Americans to take the responsibilities given to them by the Founders of this country - and assume control of their government once again. We have let too many transgressions go unchecked, allowed too many freedoms to be sacrificed for a false sense of security, and permitted trivial distractions to lure our attention from the problems which plague our country.

When the time comes for you to cast your vote for the President and various members of National and State Legislation this year - remember that NO SINGLE PARTY is right or without blame. In fact, it is the incessant fighting between these two WRONG parties that perpetuates the continued decline of the American people and the Nation.

Take a couple of hours the weekend before the elections to read through the Constitution. See what protections were placed there for the citizens of the country to prevent the government from taking control of our lives as they have. See the limitation of powers, as well as the responsibilities of the various offices.

Then, with a clear head, and perhaps a better understanding of the way the government is supposed to serve and fear the people (in direct contrast to the way things are now) - VOTE! Don't vote for a PARTY! Don't vote for a "candidate." Don't vote with your Conscience. Don't vote out of "Fear."

Vote with Reason and clarity. Vote for a return to the Constitution. A method of governing assembled by farmers, doctors, and lawyers of old - by brilliant and wise minds not since seen in governance for far too long.

Posted by: Jeffersonian | October 7, 2008 5:29 AM | Report abuse

So the "Post" got the "facts" from the DNC? Well, there's a reliable source you betcha.

Posted by: bob | October 7, 2008 6:15 AM | Report abuse

So the "Post" got the "facts" from the DNC? Well, there's a reliable source you betcha.

Posted by: bob | October 7, 2008 6:15 AM | Report abuse

Jeffersonian:

I don't vote for a party. I am voting for McCain and Palin.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 6:15 AM | Report abuse

Jeffersonian:

That is how I vote -- I am registered Independent -- I am voting for McCain and Palin this time around.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 6:15 AM | Report abuse

Jeffersonian:

I don't vote for a party. I am voting for McCain and Palin.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 6:15 AM | Report abuse

this man is so full of sht,,,why don't you check all the other parts that he has fudged, like his health, his record in congress and on and on...

Posted by: moe | October 7, 2008 6:50 AM | Report abuse

Good article and agrees with other resources I have checked. For more information go to www.rollingstone.com for a real eyebrow raiser. McCain's special interest is himself.

Posted by: annlaw | October 7, 2008 7:16 AM | Report abuse

McCains naval record is full of flaws. Rolling Stones has an article about how he crashed more than one plane because he couldn't stall for landing correctly. He did betray the country by giving information about us to Vietnam. Other POWS didn't do this as often as McCain. He is a man who is volatile and this is substaniated by many people who have enounctered him. Is this a man who we want sitting by the "red button"? I just don't think he is stable enough, I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, I sincerely see someone who is not mentally capable of handling our country with a code of safety, ethics and moral standards. He stated himself he was not good with economics and I believe this, I looked at his voting record all of it since 1997-he has not supported one issue for the middle class-Deregulation was his favorite thing-I want to make sure my children have a future and I believe that can only come with Obama leading this country out of the mess the Republican/McCain campaign has placed us in.

Posted by: Sophia Beck | October 7, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

A good article on the "real" McCain who I am definitely of the opinion that this guy was and is nothing but a careless out of control spoiled brat who's daddys name got him out of trouble all the time. The average person would have been kicked out of Annaoplis and military and that behavior never tolerated. He had no regard for anyone else.

The guy with his hot temper never mastered in his life to get grip on is not a flaw or bad habit but certainly seems to be a character of his that he is looking down on his fellow mankind with absolute intolerance and disgust. And his partner Sara is identical to him...why she is on a mission from God....not!

I can't believe the republican party would put such characters out there to run for president. Oh yea I forgot--mainstream America is stupid..their women barefoot and pregnant and brainless and the men are 6 pack Joe's..."wink wink!" I gotcha!

Posted by: mac7 | October 7, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

At least John McCain has a military record. An honorable one at that. Obama??

Posted by: Beretta | October 7, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

If it's a toss up between aircraft mishaps and associations with racist preachers and terrorists, I'll take the former. Oh, and by the way, McCain was cleared of all charges in the Keating 5 scandal. Here is an excerpt from the Senate Ethics Panels findings: "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."

Posted by: jon | October 7, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

1962 was 46 years ago! This happened 46 years ago as a young pilot in training - hello! Is this all you've got as news - something that happened nearly 50 years ago??

Hell, if the guy is really as bad as some try to make him out to be - simply for political reasons - consider this - when the Vietnamese found out who his father was they offered to release him - if he is so bad do you think he would actually choose to stay in a hell hole, tortured on a near daily basis for 5 1/2 years just because of some Navy code of honor?

Whether you like him or not you have to acknowledge that took incredible strength of character.

Journalistic integrity is no longer a standard that is subscribed to or even cared about. THIS is what upsets me. The complete media bias toward Obama is beyond the pale.

Posted by: V. Benefield
-------------------------------------
46 years!!? Well what about the attack on Obama from when he was only 8yrs old! It's ok to go into obama's past but oh no, let's not bring up the fact that the so called maverick crashed 5 planes, damaged property in Spain, crashed near virginia and hanoi! You bring up crap from the past and this is what you get for doing so. The mClame campaign shot themselves in the face with this one. How utterly retarded to play this game especially when the mccains seems to think that being a horrible pilots somehows qualifies you to be president. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAY NO!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

It is interesting to note that McCain finished in the bottom of his class while Obama finished in the top of his. Do the american people want a smart president or another idealouge? Is the reason that we don't see more on this fact from the Obama camp that they know the voters would vote for the dumb guy? Again?

Posted by: JTaylor_DC | October 7, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

If McCain won't be flexible on his records, print the allegations & then wait for his screams, thereby flushing his records from the BUSH hidey hole!

Posted by: Bob Mckenzie | October 7, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

It is kind of amusing to see some of the McCain supporters complaining about ancient history here. The self-styled image of the party animal flyboy is remarkably similar to that of somebody else we know...

Kind of gives you chills when you think about it. Vote Obama/Biden.

Posted by: troisieme | October 7, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

However many years it's been, McCain was, is and always will be an opportunist. It's "McCain First" not "Country First".

Posted by: Laram | October 7, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Dear Mr. Dobbs:

I just scrolled back through your 'Fact-Checker' archives, and couldn't find a fact-check on Joe Biden's repeated story about "being forced down in a helicopter in the most violent area of Afghanistan".

I must have simply missed it. Or, perhaps it was accidently deleted. Could you do us a favor and re-post, just so we can compare and contrast to this McCain story?

The Biden story is much more current, so it should be even easier and quicker to research, compared to the time it must have taken you to do this marginal one on McCain.

Thanks.

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Wow. This crash into the bay really is old news. Barack Obama wasn't even born in March 1960.

Posted by: Mary G. | October 7, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"Stall" is not a synonym for "engine quit." Seriously, if you're not a pilot, don't bother commenting if you think "stall" means "engine quit", because you don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by: T | October 7, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

JTaylor:

Idealouge. Next question?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

For you doubters who think the allegations of media bias are fabricated by paranoid conservatives, I submit Exhibit A.

Consider that today the Post and most other mainstream media are posting several stories/opinion pieces on:
- McCain's relationship to Keating (an event 20 years old)
- McCain taking $100k in campaign contributions from Keating, and the failure of Keatings S&L costing taxpayers $3 billion (an event 20 years old).
- McCain and a possible Iran/Contra connection (an event 20+ years old)
- McCain and this Navy story (an event 40 years old)

Yet, not one mention of:
- Obama's campaign receiving tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from foreigners, which is illegal (a current event).
- Obama's tight relationship with Jeremiah Wright, which was closer by far than any relationship McCain had with Keating (an event 4 months old)
- Obama receiving as much money from Fannie Mae as McCain ever did from Keating, and Fannie will cost taxpayers up to $1 TRILLION, compared to the $3 billion cost of Keating's failure (an event 3 months old).

It is laughable that these guys like Dobbs and the rest of the crew at the Post are simply out today posting whatever crap the DNC feeds them to distract from the stories of Obama illegal campaign donations, Jeremiah Wright, or any other stories that would be embarassing to the Messiah.

So, anyone want to try arguing there is no bias in our press?

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

ANY other person other than the son and grandson of an four star admiral(McCain) would have been pulled from the pilot position long before being shot down with a crash record like McCain's. FIVE CRASHES BY ONE PILOT...PATHETIC, IRRESPONSIBLE, AND UNQUALIFIED FOR THE POSTION!

John McCain would have been a radio operator, foot soldier etc if he didn't have his daddy and granddaddy. Those crashes cost TONS of lives and US dollars!

Posted by: AWriteToBeHeard | October 7, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

I spent my time in the Army working and flying on helicopters but was also trained on fix wing plus rotary engines and turbine engines. First of all you can stall the engine and make the aircraft crash if you have a variable pitch prop and set it to the wrong angle which requires more power and spread to fly. If the blade tips of a prop , which is the system on a Skyraider , is to high it disrupts the airflow and the engine stalls and you attain the glide ratio of a crow bar. Pilots are told and trained to only mess with it at altitude so they have a recovery margin. On the other hand if you are hung over and think you are better than you really are then you enter the world of "Stupid". The most important thing you learn in the military around aircraft is that "Stupid" has an inherent self correcting factor and you do it only so long and then you get in a crash.

In Vietnam many of us crew members learned how to fly a helicopter just in case the officers were shot but also in case they were hung over. It was not uncommon for them to sleep it off while we flew the ship to a staging point.

Next both his daddy and grand daddy were Admirals so McCain was "wired" and his 201 file , that's your personnel file , is marked to let others know you have "PI" political influence. You either palled around with the guy or stayed away from him because a word from him could mess you up or grease the skids to move you up the ladder of military success.

The information for this report had come from the official records held at the Naval Archives which anyone can access by going to the Navy Yard in Northeast DC right up the street from the Washington National Stadium. I've been there many a time doing research.

Now for the clowns complain that the story also appeared in Roiling stone I also found it in the Sidney Morning Herald
http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/mccains-flying-skills-shot-down-by-inquiry/2008/10/06/1223145262104.html
Of course even though Rupert Murdock is from there unless he owns that paper and controls it like the rest of the Fox Network I gather people will think the paper is in the Obama camp.

"Mccain is Mcsame" as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: Don Armstrong | October 7, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

McCain is a "born again liar". He would say and do anything to become president. I see him as a vinditive man capable of just about anything in order to get ahead.

Posted by: Bill O'Neil | October 7, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

McCain is the "manchurian" candidate. Plain and simple, and Palin is the "mom". Apparently McCain isn't in charge of his own campaign. Palin is getting real scary, do we really want her as the defacto president? Time for the republican pinheads to wake up.

Posted by: AlaskaPalin | October 7, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Oh well, maybe you should ask Obama to release his military records - oh that's right he does not have one.

Oh well, how about his association with William Ayres, The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, and The Woods Fund in which he channeled $60million of grants, obtained by Ayres, to organizations like ACORN

Posted by: Jimbob5 | October 7, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I'll take McSame and Palin (who is NOT Hillary, you forgot to post).

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Note to Ria - You should consider the source of your information. Andy Martin, the person Sean Hannity had on his show Sunday night, is an insane racist.

The Illinois Supreme Court, refused to admit Andy Martin to the bar, pointing to a military psychiatric exam that allegedly found him to have personality defects that include delusions involving both paranoia and grandeur. Andy Martin has run for political office many times - once with the plan to "exterminate Jew power in America and impeach U.S. District Court of Appeals judges in New York City."

Andy Martin wrote in a motion for a case, "I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did, when Jew survivors are operating as a wolf pack to steal my property."

Posted by: Nessorc | October 7, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Clearly McCain has taken a few liberties with his military record (we all embellish history a little with each re-telling).

But the bigger question here is.. when flying (and flying jets) is one of the most sought-after career paths in the Navy (and Anapolis), and assignment to flight training is only for the best and brightest. Why or how would a guy who placed 5th from the bottom of his class get such an assignment? And why, after smashing up several aircraft during training, was he allowed to complete the training when others would have been sent packing to surface warfare or cooking school?

There's a really good article in Rolling Stone that outlines all the opportunities he's gotten simply on his family name.

He's just the third generation of a family of heroes and patriots, but he clearly got a lot of benefits and protection from that. Sounds familiar, eh?

Posted by: mraymondus | October 7, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse


From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/impulsively-unreflective-duo-inmccain.html

The Impulsively Unreflective Duo In..."McCain Goes Negative!"

In our last episode, we saw the indomitable, impulsive duo suspend the campaign to take on the Crisis on Wall Street! Now, watch, as, in our next episode...McCain Goes Negative!

McCain paces the floor in the Fortress of Irritability. He is cracking walnuts.

A walnut slips to the floor.

McCain: Damn nutcracker!

Sarah Palin is sitting in a chair at a desk. She is writing on a piece of paper: "J.M + S.P." This is then crossed out and replaced by "S.P. + J.M.". These alternating versions , the one before it always crossed out, continues down the page.

McCain: Well, the first plan didn't work. We tried to put them in a trance with the folksy ray, but they had their deflectors halfway raised. If only you hadn't called the commander in Afghanistan "McClellan"

Palin: But...didn't you say they were fighting a civil war, Sir?

McCain looks at Palin silently. He is smiling but he is holding back anger.

McCain: I think the time has come. We have to call in...Dr. Negative.

He pushes a large black button, which is the only button, on a red phone on his desk.

Dr. Negative immediately bursts through the door. He is carrying flyers, masking tape; telephone wires are wrapped around his arms hanging in every way; a tattered copy of the book "Accusations of Fascism, Communism, Terrorism, Drug Use, Pedophilia, Islamism, Adultery, Pandeism, Cannibalism, Cubism, Miscegenation, and Spousal Abuse...for Dummies!" is rolled and stuffed in his left pocket, filled with bookmarks; he is dragging a Robocaller behind him, leashed to a chain.

Dr. Negative (quickly, eagerly): Did you hear? Obama was born in Bin Laden's subterranean bomb making factory, outside of U.S. lines. He was born on a pile of cocaine and dynamite--and the midwife was a Trotskyite!

McCain: Not yet, Dr. Negative. I want you to meet Sarah.

Sarah: Oh, we've already met.

Dr. Negative: That trooper went down! He poisoned the salmon milk at the Wasilla Bible school! With drugs made at a Leftist Satan worshiping collective! That you could see from Russia!

Sarah: You betcha'!

Sarah and Dr. Negative give each other a high five. Dr. Negative's telephone wires rattle on his arm as he does so, triggering the Robocaller, which starts playing "...illegitimate babies made in test tube factories in North Korea and sent to Chicago by Bill Ayers..."

Dr. Negative shuts off the Robocaller with an embarassed smile.

Dr. Negative: Just practicing.

There is a pause.

McCain: That's fine, Dr. Negative. That's fine. Because, now, I have a special job for you. An important one.

Dr. Negative leaps into the air with excited glee. As he does, detritus falls to the floor--buttons reading "Election Day: Remember, the 3rd Tuesday in November!", business cards, reading "Push Polls Anonymous--We Call, They Fall", "Mongers On Call-No Rumor Too Far fetched"; Bandaids with purple hearts; mangled and dirty chads.

Dr. Negative: A new job! A special job! Oh, Mr. McCain! I'm ready! I'm ready!

Sarah watches from her chair, filing her nails.

McCain: Now, Dr. Negative. You have to make him seem radical...

Dr. Negative quickly pulls a can out of his right pocket, emblazoned with the word "Radical" He opens the top. Red and Black snakes fly out.

Dr. Negative: (eagerly, expectantly, hungrily) Yes...Yes...

McCain: You'll have to start rumors that are so inflammatory that they will spread like wildfire, and that will be started too late to stop them with the actual truth...

Dr. Negative pulls a gigantic grinder out of his left pocket. It is labeled "Rumor Mill". He turns the crank a few times. Hamsters, syringes, and Peace symbols fly out.

Dr. Negative: Yes...Yes...

He is salivating.

McCain: They will have to be so incredible, so over-the-top, based on such tawdry and poorly sourced evidence, yet riddled with tempting minutia--bullet gauges, Google maps of supposed meetings and the like, that the right will eat them up, and start analyzing the minutia with adolescent glee.

Dr. Negative (Very calmly, matter of fact): Oh, that's easy. They'll eat anything.

Dr. Negative reaches into his back pocket, pulls out a manila envelope labeled "Minutia: So-called "Proof" for the Right". He empties it to the floor. Bullet gauge measures, outdated copies of Photoshop, paperbacks entitled "How to Use the Insane as Competent Witnesses", "The Faked Moon Landings! Roswell! And Other Believable Phenomena!" and "You TOO Can Be A Warrior--From Your Own Couch!" fall to the floor.

Sarah plucks out the "Faked Moon Landings" book. She starts reading.

McCain: We know how our girl loves to read.

Sarah stops, and begins fixing her hair in a hand mirror.

Now, Dr. Negative, there is one final task.

Dr. Negative: Yes, Mr. McCain?

McCain: It is very difficult. Very...dark.

Dr. Negative: (Leaning forward expectantly, his voice quivering with excitement): Yes, Mr. McCain, Yes?

McCain: You will have to play the card that they played against me. Do you understand?

The room becomes silent. Sarah stops looking at herself, and looks towards the center of the room where McCain and Dr. Negative are staring at each other.

Dr. Negative: You mean...(eyes widened with disbelief. His telephone wires are quietly shaking as he shivers).

McCain (nodding): Yes.

Dr. Negative slowly removes from his jacket pocket what seems to be an ordinary pack of playing cards. They are labeled "Joker" brand. He takes a penknife from his pocket, and slowly slices the covering cellophane. There is a slight and distant roar. He looks at McCain.

McCain nods.

Dr. Negative then slowly removes the red ribbon encircling the cellophane at the top of the pack. He inserts the penknife--holding it from it very farthest end--and flips open the top of the pack.

Smoke begins to pour from the top of the pack, thick, acrid smoke. It quickly fills the room, covering all that is in sight.

McCain (shouting amidst the sound of smoke rushing into the room): And remember--no fingerprints!

Next episode: The smoke is cleared.

Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/impulsively-unreflective-duo-inmccain.html

Posted by: Jana Walter | October 7, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I do believe Mr. McCain benefited all his life from the white version of affirmative action. He was admitted to college and his career due to his genes.

Posted by: membermylai | October 7, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

The Rolling Stone story is eye-popping; McCain was apparently a pretty bad pilot, with a track record of multiple crashes and poor performance.
Wonder how he managed to stay in the Navy...?
Oh yeah...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Nessorc:
"Andy Martin, the person Sean Hannity had on his show Sunday night, is an insane racist."

Just curious: how would you label Jeremiah Wright? An insane racist, perhaps?

John McCain had no relationship with Andy Martin. What kind of relationship did Obama have with Jeremiah Wright?

Since you are rightfully so appalled by racism, I'm confident you will not be able to find any reason to support Barack Obama after thinking through the facts.

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I am not all that impressed by his war record, to allow him to threaten politcal opponents and the rest of the world. I remember that he signed unAmerican statements. Under pressure what guarrantees do we have that he won't again.

If he could demonstrate that he actually knows about the world economy or anything for that matter. But he refuses to talk about the reall issues.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

How many planes do the sons of nonadmirals lose before they lose their wings?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Could you image the field day the Post would have if:
- it was found that McCain attended a church for 20 years where the preacher was a known racist, preached white supremecy, and encouraged his parishioners to bash America.

- it was found that one of McCain's earliest relationships developed in running for his first public office was with a high-ranking member of a radical group that bombed abortion clinics.

- it was found that McCain was able to profit substantially more than the going market could support on the purchase and sale of one of his properties with a person convicted of criminal activity.

- it was found that McCain's campaign was receiving large, illegally bundled donations from foreigners.

- it was found that McCain received the second highest amount of campaign contributions from the biggest beneficiary of the bail out.

Just imagine....

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Once an assshole, always an assshole.

Posted by: thesuperclasssux | October 7, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

dbw1:

Yesterday, on The View, Barbara Walters actually dismissed any mention of William Ayers because "that's old news" and (not shocking) the Democrats already vetted him. So, if the Super Delegates had decided to nominate an admitted child molester, that would be O.K. with Ms. Walters, too, I guess. It is really sad that the Dems are defending an UNREPENTANT TERRORIST. Just think of it, if Osama bin Laden can hang in there 32 years, even he can pal around with Democrats.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

WP -- Thanks for finally printing this story. The facts suggest strongly that McCain (an Annapolis legacy student) was NEVER tagged as a kid with leadership potential despite his pedigree, so he was not picked and groomed. Instead, he continued to be a run of the mill pilot far beyond the time he would have been one if he had had any leadership skills, and ended up in an extended stay in a POW camp. This guy is not a leader. He's a looser who married a pretty heiress. Narcissistic as hell, and a powder keg ready to go off. Vote for him at your peril.

Posted by: seemstome | October 7, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Prem:

It wasn't affirmative action; it was the program republicans love, called a legacy program. A legacy program means that the children of alumni are given preference in admission. (You don't really think Yale took W. on the basis of his intellectual achievements, do you?) This is how they ensure that their heirs access to elite programs, which in turn guarantees access to the elite power structure in this country. Affirmative action is designed to level this playing field.

Posted by: Erin-JD | October 7, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I am simply not surprised anymore with what the McCain campaign comes up with. Soon they are going to start claiming that Obama is the antichrist. Throughout this campaign, they have managed to stoke fears that Obama is muslim (like simply being one is a dangerous thing, but the fact that Obama is actually christian is not known to many people), link him to all sorts of associations with crooks, sometimes simply on the basis of Obama being in the same room with a person, lie about his tax plan for the middle class, continue to charge that the media is biased (to innoculate their lies). Now they claim Barack Obama is associated with the Weathermen (Obama was 8 when they were active!). There is a difference between an casual acquaintance, and an undeniable influence on someone's decisions. Yes, indeed Obama has gone into attack mode as well, but his attacks are based on far more relevant associations like McCain's deep links with Lobbyists (the McCain campaign is both financially supported and staffed by lobbies, and he has demonstrated his culpability to corrupt commercial influence thru the Keating 5 scandal), McCain's dangerous healthcare plan (taxing your healthcare benefits to give you healthcare tax credits), his proposal to open up social security for investment decisions (good idea, but also adding considerable risk to people's security net), and McCain's behavior (claiming that the fundamentals of our economy is strong, and then messing up the bailout talks for political gain, his impulsive my-way-or-the-highway approach to foreign policy, his irresponsible selection of Palin), his tactics of dividing the electorate on choices that do not matter to the challenges we are facing today (guns, abortion, gay marriage etc), and his unethical attempts at voter caging across swing states to disqualify democrat votes. So while both campaigns have gone negative, we need to take things into perspective, and understand the difference between mud slinging versus relevant criticism, they are very different things. I have given up trying to convince the hard-core right wingers, and racially prejudiced people, because these are a group that have been completely swayed by their own preconceived notions about a candidate they have not even tried to read up about. This group has been hugely affected by John McCain's systematic strike at the media establishment (so they can say anything they want), to believe only what John McCain is saying, and have been programmed to allow their prejudice to claim that Obama is not experienced enough. TRUTH IS, YOU CAN HIRE EXPERIENCE AND YOU CAN BUY KNOWLEDGE, BUT WHAT YOU CANNOT CHANGE IS A PERSON'S JUDGMENT AND THE FUNDAMENTAL MORAL COMPASS THAT GUIDES IT. I am hoping that the Independent voters and undecided voters, who tend to be more deliberate, and inquisitive in their considerations would be able to make these critical distinctions.

Posted by: roarks | October 7, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

His irretic behavior after the market all but crashed and suspending his campaign and going back to Washington to get something dune only after getting there just sit silently smiling??? Whats up with that? US be very careful, we have gone past his service in the military, we need to stay on the issues,that is what really matters (its the economy stupid!!!).

Posted by: Corith, Arkansas | October 7, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

How 'bout if McCain releases his military records just as soon as Kerry does. I'm sure the Post has asked for Kerry's. And while you're at it, why not see if you can find Obama's Columbia transcripts ... plus any records he may have caused to be generated.

Posted by: NoDem | October 7, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

McCain is no hero - he is a war coward who spilled his guts to the NVA and survived while better men did not "break" under torture and gave only their name rank and serial number as they had sworn to do in accordance with the Military Code of Conduct and it's article titled "If I Should Become a Prisoner of War".
In addition, his flying record would DISQUALIFY him from ever being hired by an airline in the US. Perhaps that is why he had the unmitigated cowardice to call United Airline Pilots a bunch of cowards for asking for a pay raise.

Posted by: Ric | October 7, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I am working in a predominantly republican community here in riverside ca. , which has suffered drastic real estate decline. Forclosure / bank owned signs litter the streets here and your home is now worth about half of what it was two years ago.

Why are republicans begining to blame democrats for their own finacial greed. These folks bought houses they could not afford.
Did they not understand the loan ? They keep saying Fannie targeted the poor , but here we are in Temecula with republicans
desperate to stay in their homes hoping they have a job next week.

Americans need to live within their means,
Democrat and republican.
Keep the terrorists out of office
Vote Obama 08 :)

Posted by: god | October 7, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Although I have decided to vote for Obama, I think this type of fact checking is mostly irrelevant to the issues we should base our 2008 decision on. I wouldn't expect McCain to call attention to all his flying errors in an autobiography, and it was his experience as a prisoner of war that defines the McCain brand, not his piloting. Nor do I care about David Ayers, who committed his crimes when Obama was 8 years old. Nor do I care about Sarah Palin's witchcraft ceremonies.

I do care, however, about the fact that the McCain camp would have the audacity to state, out loud, that they want to change the subject of the campaign because they fear a loss if the campaign is about issues. This is shocking.

I do care, also, that probably everyone in the McCain organization believes that Obama is an intelligent, effective politician who in no way shares the view of people like Ayers, and that Obama loves this country every bit as much as they do, yet they incessantly try to plant suspicions in peoples' minds to score politically. If you want to argue or fight, good, that's politics, but at least have the decency to argue what you actually believe.

Which is related to why I chose Obama: At least when the fact checkers catch him on a point, it's at least a point that is in tune with Obama's position. E.g., We all know John McCain doesn't want to actually stay in Iraq for 100 years, but he's entirely unwilling to discuss ways to expedite the closure of this war. E.g.2, when the fact checker scolded Obama for misrepresenting/exagerrating the number of black men in prisons, as if anyone would argue that there aren't too many in prison.

In short, it's crunch time, and I hope we don't spend the next month parsing words and slinging mud.

But sadly I don't have the audacity to hope for such behavior.

Posted by: Frank DC | October 7, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

SENATOR JOHN 'MAVERICK HOTHEAD' MCCAIN is 100% UNFIT FOR U.S. PRESIDENT and COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF!!!

100% FACTS

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN WAS THE U.S. NAVY’S WORST PILOT and WORST STUDENT AT ANNAPOLIS GRADUATED 894TH IN A CLASS OF 899

EVERYTHING WE HAVE EVER HEARD ABOUT SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN BEING A WAR HERO IS A COMPLETE LIE.

Despite graduating in the bottom 1% of his Annapolis class, John McCain was offered the most sought-after Navy assignment - to become an aircraft carrier pilot. WHY? BECAUSE HIS FATHER WAS A 4-STAR U.S. NAVY ADMIRAL! The most accomplished midshipmen compete furiously for the few carrier pilot openings. After four abysmal academic years at Annapolis distinguished only by his misdeeds and malfeasance, no one with a record resembling John McCain's would have been offered such a prized career path – except a 4-star U.S. Navy Admiral’s son!

So McCain was made a pilot because his father was a 4-star U.S. Navy admiral. John McCain was such a bad pilot that he crashed 5 fighter planes because of his poor pilot skills. Then the Navy made sure he was never in the newest planes, forcing him to fly outdated fighters so his mistakes were less costly. McCain was never in a fighting squadron. "He was thus on the outer end of the flying totem pole."

JOHN MCCAIN, THE BELOW PAR U.S. NAVY PILOT, LOST 5 U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT. ANY OTHER U.S. NAVY PILOT WOULD HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF THE SERVICE IF HIS DADDY AND GRANDFATHER WERE NOT FOUR STAR U.S. NAVY ADMIRALS!!!

JOHN MCCAIN WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ALLOWED IN THE COCKPIT OF A MILITARY AIRCRAFT AND NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO GRADUATE FROM THE U.S. NAVY FLIGHT SCHOOL BECAUSE WAS A BELOW AVERAGE STUDENT AND A LOUSY PILOT!!!

John McCain’s first plane crash was during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in 1960.

While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying drinking John McCain lost a second aircraft "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral..."

Flight instructor John McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump of trees.

The Navy dismissed the crash as "unavoidable" and assigned McCain to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the U.S.S Forrestal was assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against North Vietnam.

John McCain lost his fourth plane on board the U.S. Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet caused by John Mccain’s negligence in wet starting his jet. John McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed killed innocent 134 sailors. John McCain was transferred from the badly damaged U.S.S Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. On Oct. 26, 1967, John McCain was shot down over Hanoi North Vietnam bombing a power plant and captured by the Vietnamese.


Posted by: WORLDPEACEISGODSPLAN | October 7, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

obama is black and black people can neveR be trusted.
woman also have no bussiness being in politics but mccain/palin is certainly the lesser of two evils.

Posted by: fred clark | October 7, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

McCain lies about everything, but thats ok because Palin will be President because she's on a mission from God. Oh, wait a minute, she lies about everything too.

Posted by: Tishijo | October 7, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

seemstome and roarks:

I am registered Independent and will definitely voting for McCain, or the country will be in peril.

Ric:

Did you read Ex-Navy Pilot's post, above?

Frank:

What about WILLIAM Ayers? Do you care about Obama's mentor being an UNREPENTANT TERRORIST? If Obama's mentor was Osama bin Laden, would THAT matter to you?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

McCain's milked the "POW" shtick about as much as he can. Being a POW does not make you an honorable man if everything you've done for the past 25 years has been in the service of your own greed and self-interest. Adolf Hitler was noted for his brave service and many instances of heroism under fire in World War I. So does that automatically make him a "hero"?

George W. Bush was a much better pilot than McCain.

Posted by: End the GOP in November | October 7, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

I'm an Obama supporter who couldn't care about McCain's crashes 40 years ago. I do care about his support of this unneccessary and wasteful war, his lack of understanding of the economy and his poor judgement in selecting Palin as his running mate.

Posted by: Jimbo | October 7, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

JakeD:

C'mon, you know that if someone who bombed abortion clinics were one of McCain's early supporters and backers, the fair-minded Barbara Walters would just as quickly dimsiss it as "old news" as long as it happened a long time ago :o).

Has anyone lost their journalistic integrity more quickly than Barbara Walters? She used to be one of the journalists I viewed as 'in the middle', usually willing to ask tough questions to candidates from both sides. But she has really exposed herself during this election as nothing more than a shill conduit for liberals.

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

We're now suffering from the terrible and irrational judgement of a son of a famous father who's pulled his butt out of every one of his woeful fiascos, from baseball to oil, until this one, his presidency. Why would this country select another wayward son of a famous man? McCain's father, Admiral Jack McCain, kept him in the Naval Academy, kept him flying when any other naval aviator would have been washed out of the program and probably saved his butt while in a Viet Cong prison. We haven't suffered enough? Do you want four more years of another embittered son trying to out do his father?

Posted by: J Daniel Ballard | October 7, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

McCain makes his flight record an issue in the campaign, thus it is fair game. I doubt this is going to change anyone's vote.

I found it interesting read, though.

Posted by: Patrick | October 7, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Jimbo:

Are you equally concerned about Obama's poor judgment in selecting Biden as his running mate?

I mean, Obama ran for over a year on "change", and then selected a running-mate who's been entrenched in D.C. longer than McCain.

Obama chose a near daily gaffe-machine.

Obama chose someone who had made plenty of criticisms of Obama during the primaries, giving the McCain camp fodder for commercials.

Obama chose Biden for his foreign policy experience, yet Biden's own plan for Iraq was discredited by both sides and would have kept troops in Iraq indefinitely, which was opposite of Obama's promises.

Doesn't that show some pretty poor decision making on Obama's part?

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Rediculous. You're trying to grill McCain because of an incident that happened 48 years ago? He remembers flying in the plane, the plane falling out of the sky (also known as stalling) and the report says its because he didn't use enough power (read the engine was set to low). Desperation. How about an article about Bill Ayers or Reverend Wright or ACORN, or Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac campaign contributions, or illegal contributions from foreign nationals? Too much to ask.

Posted by: Chris | October 7, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

"he was offered free passage back home because of his father and he declined...."

The military code forbids accepting early release. He would have walked out of Nam and into a court martial, repudiation by his own family and disgrace among everyone he knew. Those offers were made to others who also refused. It was the right thing to do, but so was not fragging the liutenant etc.
The whole episode could have been avoided had McCain heeded the radar alarm on his plane and commenced evasive actions (those AA missiles were deadly but not smart). With the intel of knowing the approximate position of the AA battery he could have called in a strike on it from w artillery, keeping the plane and pilot in action for another day.

Posted by: Robert B | October 7, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Let's be honest with his class ranking McCain would not have been flying planes if he had other people for his parents.

Still waiting to find out exactly how he knows how to win a war. What war has McCain won

Posted by: Theresa C. | October 7, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

So we are concentrating on a plane crash in Corpus Christi for McCain, but we have still yet to hear what Obama's real relationships with Ayers and his racisist anti-american preacher. To this independent, McCain crashing a plane is tons different from Obama supporting terrorism. How else can you explain his desire to kiss Iran's butt through diplomacy (which has had no effect since the cold war). Obama is a straight-up liar. So you can bury the truth once again, but that is what stupid lberal democrats do for thier "The One". You do realize that Obama is going to hell when he leaves this earth. Especially if he gets elected president. He will renig on every promise he has made to the middle and lower classes, just like Clinton and his midguided policies on the mortgage industry. It is ok if you don't understand how the economy works, but Reagan is the smartest man we have ever had the pleasure of electing to the presidency. Because of Reagan, Clinton had a surplus under his administration. So Billy was left to have as many extramarital affairs he could possibly fit into 8 years. If you think Monica was the only one, you are as stupid as Obama.

Posted by: Boss | October 7, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey, he crashed so many planes how can he be expected to remember?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

ALL of you Republicans should be ashamed of yourselves!

The fact is: the ONLY HEROES in war are the ones who DIED!

Stop calling the ELITIST John McCain a hero...he is NO hero...He survived, and talked...by his own admission, "They BROKE me".

As an Army brat, my father taught me that in the military, if you are caught as a POW, you are to DIE for your country and not talk...John McCain decided to "Break" and choose HIS life over his fellow soldiers. Who knows how many Vietnam soldiers died because J McC. talked, then "Strutted" back to his cell after he was fed, not tortured.

Ask yourself where those tapes went, and why it was so important for McCain to go get those POW's...it was to destroy the tapes made of him committing TREASON during wartime.

Some people in this country just won't see what is right in their face...by the admission of the man himself. Go back and watch the RNC acceptance speech. It's all right there. "They BROKE me" means he snitched on his fellow soldiers for his own comfort.

Now THAT is shameful!!

Posted by: Tracy | October 7, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

The fact is: the ONLY HEROES in war are the ones who DIED!

Posted by: Tracy | October 7, 2008 1:42 PM


I didn't think it was possible, but a new level of stupidity has been reached.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

ok... Where is the story in this article that WaPo liberals are trying to make?

Are they saying that because someone crashed planes during training or combat that they are not able to hold a job as POTUS? But good enough as a Senator?

So…. I wonder how many liberals have had more than one car accident. How many resulted in deaths?

I was going to ask how many of those accidents resulted in brain damage but I think this article just answered my question on that one.

All of them are brain damaged…. But I think that usually happens at birth for liberals.


Posted by: Yawn | October 7, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

McCain betrayed Vets over and over many times....see it yourself.

• McCain Supported Outsourcing VA Jobs. McCain opposed an amendment that would have prevented the Department of Veterans Affairs from outsourcing jobs, many held by blue-collar veterans, without first giving the workers a chance to compete. (S.Amdt. 2673 to H.R. 2642, Vote 315, 9/6/07)

• McCain Also Supported Outsourcing at Walter Reed. McCain opposed an amendment to prevent the outsourcing of 350 federal employee jobs at Walter Reed Army Medical Center—outsourcing that contributed to the scandalous treatment of veterans at Walter Reed that McCain called a "disgrace." (S.Amdt. 4895 to H.R. 5631, Vote 234, 9/6/06; Speech to VFW in Kansas City, Mo., 4/4/08)

• McCain Voted Against $122.7 Billion for Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain voted against an appropriations bill that included $122.7 billion in fiscal 2004 for the Department of Veterans Affairs, Housing and Urban Development and other related agencies. (H.R. 2861, Vote 449, 11/12/03)

• McCain Voted Against $51 Billion in Veterans Funding. McCain was one of five senators to vote against the bill and seven to vote against the conference report that provided $51.1 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, as well as funding for the federal housing, environmental and emergency management agencies and NASA. (H.R. 2620, Vote 334, 11/8/01; Vote 269, 8/2/01)

• McCain Voted Against $47 Billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain was one of eight senators to vote against a bill that provided $47 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. (H.R. 4635, Vote 272, 10/12/00)• McCain Voted Against $44.3 Billion for Veterans Programs. McCain was one of five senators to vote against a bill providing $44.3 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, plus funding for other federal agencies. (H.R. 2684, Vote 328, 10/15/99)

• McCain Voted Against a $13 Billion Increase in Funding for Veterans Programs. McCain voted against an amendment to increase spending on veterans programs by $13 billion. (S.C.R. 57, Vote 115, 5/16/96)

• McCain Voted to Underfund Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain voted for an appropriations bill that underfunded the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development by $8.9 billion. (H.R. 2099, Vote 470, 9/27/95)

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

John McCain crashed 3 planes *before* he was shot down in Vietnam. Any other pilot would have lost his wings, but with his father being a four-star admiral, you can guess what happened: Daddy pulled strings kept his incompotent son flying. Elitism at its finest.

Posted by: Lance | October 7, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Quite "Mavericky".

It still looks like there is a small group of mindless followers that may actually vote for the shameless GOP duo.

So, THIS is how Hitler managed to get people to follow him. Even though they could smell the buring bodies of the innocent.

Very scary stuff.

OBAMA-BIDEN 08

Hey Tracy--I hate John McCain, and I do not think he should be president of anything. But you should NOT question his years as a POW. You are the shameful one.

Posted by: dematheart | October 7, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I find it interesting that McCain's naval career continued after these mishaps from 1960 to 1965; I sure the fact that his father was a high ranking admiral had nothing to due with him getting off scott free.

The story making the rounds in Norfolk is that the 1965 crash involved a stopover to see his then girlfriend(later the first Mrs. McCain) in Philadelphia. Sounds like an abuse of government funds to use a Navy plane to see your girlfriend then crash it.

No wonder Senator McCain doesn't want to negotiate with the Spanish; he probably thinks they still bear ill will towards him for damaging their electrical grid. His attitude sounds rather cavalier about the whole incident.

Posted by: dhennell | October 7, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

"During the course of his flying career with the U.S. Navy, John McCain was involved in at least five major mishaps or crashes involving his plane."

********************************


Aside from the rather charitable description of this idiot's Navy career, the sentence should read, "...five major mishaps or crashes involving his plane[s]." After you crash one, then you have a different plane, and so forth.

He was by all accounts a lousy pilot and many of us will be paying taxes for the rest of our lives to pay his various "mishaps."

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

V. Benefield wrote: "1962 was 46 years ago! This happened 46 years ago as a young pilot in training - hello! Is this all you've got as news - something that happened nearly 50 years ago??"

McCain's campaign is trying to make a big deal out of something someone else did when Obama was eight years old.

If that's fair game, then what McCain himself did as an adult -- and what he said about it -- is certainly fair game.

Posted by: drossless | October 7, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Tnx for your post Wyatt, it is Awesome (and a lot of work for you.)

Everything in this election must be about the truth, therefore, we must take our country back from Ali Mohammad McCain and Osama Bin Palin! My Friends..If they want to play the blame game with silly tactics flavored with racial overtones and list Barack Obama's name with terrorists, muslims, thugs, resko/ayres fibs, anti-hillary accusations, & flag pins; We must demand the following GOP/McCraziac issues come to the forefront and be answered in the media:
~Keating 5 www(dot)KeatingEconomics(dot)com
~Fundamental Deregulator
~Deregulation of Social Security
~Deregulation of HealthCare
~Enron Loophole
~100 Year War Monger & $Trillions$ Spent On Iraqi War
~Vicki Iseman
~Brokaw/McCain Friendship
~Infidelity/Adultery
~Anti-Catholic
~Tax Break Elimination
~Voted Against Equal Pay & Equal Rights For Our Mothers, Sisters, Daughters, Grandmothers, Nieces, Aunts, Wives, & Girlfriends
~Temperament-Erraticsism, Is There A Blood Relation Between McCraziac & Bill-Had-Sex-With-A-Show-Intern-O'Reilly ?
~McCain Campaign Lobbyist ie. Rick Davis & 169 more Lobbyists
~Andrew McCain + Nevada based Silver State Bank
~Andrew McCain + CMKM Diamonds,better known as CMKX
~Palingate/Troopergate Criminal Investigation
~Palin's REV.THOMAS MUTHEE Witchdoctor Video
~Betrayus With A Surge To Nowhere In Iraq
~US Council For World Freedom; Radical, Dangerous & Racist Organization
~Voted Against Veteran Benefits At Home
~4th Stage Cancer
~Anheuser Busch(Budweiser)Cindy Mccain #1 National Debate Sponsor
~*Straight Talk America PAC, *Altria Group, *American Issues Project, *National Campaign Fund, *Vets For Freedom
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www(dot)mccainslobbyists(dot)com

www(dot)mccainsource(dot)com

www(dot)therealmccain(dot)com/butler

www(dot)mudflats(dot)wordpress(dot)com

www(dot)plnewsforum(dot)com/index.php/forums/viewthread/39966

www(dot)phoenixnewtimes(dot)com/1989-11-29/news/mccain-the-most-reprehensible-of-the-keating-five/1

www(dot)rationalrevolution0(dot)tripod(dot)com/war/bush_family_and_the_s(dot)htm

www(dot)republicansexoffenders(dot)com

www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

McCain Campaign Has Strong Ties To Corporate Lobbyists At Center Of Bailout
www(dot)thinkprogress(dot)org/2008/09/22/mccain-campaign-lobbies-bailou

McCain on Special Interest, Lobbyists and DC Sleaze—What you should remember
www(dot)personals(dot)nymag(dot)com/blog/1069/post_78180.html?dcb=personals(dot)nymag(dot)com

Media advance myth of McCain as lobbyist foe
www(dot)mediamatters(dot)org/items/200802260009

the McCAIN BUSH GRAMM foreclosure plan: called BIG BANK BAILOUT (4 more years of BUSH PILLAGE?)
www(dot)miami(dot)craigslist(dot)org/mdc/pol/850631984(dot)html

NOW, IF YOU NEED TO KNOW MORE, PUT "credit default swap + Mccain lobbyists" INTO THE GOOGLE SEARCH BAR
AND YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THE UNETHICAL THEFT THAT MCCAIN HAS PULLED OVER THE EYES OF ALL THE LOW INFORMATION AMERICANS THAT WILL VOTE FOR HIM. IT IS DISGUSTING!

Posted by: Wyatt | October 6, 2008 2:12 PM

Posted by: Ltcmikesr (USA Ret) | October 7, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, I don't have hours to spend doing on line research like
this individual did, but I couldn't agree with her more. You can't
believe what the hell the media is putting out there - it's all a bunch
of slanted crap!

I think it's important to send this on so anyone that is open to ideas
and wants what is best for out country can have good information to use
when making up their mind regarding who to vote for. This is not a
political slant, but a REAL person doing research on an individual who
will be in charge of our country. Just read it and make your own
decisions.

This election has me very worried. So many things to
consider. About a year ago I would have voted for Obama. I
have changed my mind three times since than. I watch all
the news channels, jumping from one to another. I must say
this drives my husband crazy. But, I feel if you view
MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, you might get some middle ground
to work with. About six months ago, I started thinking
'where did the money come from for Obama'. I have
four daughters who went to College, and we were middle
class, and money was tight. We (including my girls) worked
hard and there were lots of student loans.

I started looking into Obama's life.

Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental in
California . He is very open about his two years at
Occidental, he tried all kinds of drugs and was wasting his
time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did not apply
himself to his studies. 'Barry' (that was the name
he used all his life) during this time had two roommates,
Muhammad Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both from Pakistan .
During the summer of 1981, after his second year in
college, he made a 'round the world' trip.
Stopping to see his mother in Indonesia , next Hyderabad in
India, three weeks in Karachi, Pakistan where he stayed with
his roommate's family, then off to Africa to visit his
father's family. My question - Where did he get the
money for this trip? Nether I, nor any one of my children
would have had money for a trip like this when they where in
college. When he came back he started school at Columbia
University in New York . It is at this time he wants
everyone to call him Barack - not Barry. Do you know what the
tuition is at Columbia ? It's not cheap to say the
least! Where did he get money for tuition? Student
Loans? Maybe. After Columbia, he went to Chicago to work as
a Community Organizer for $12,000 a year. Why Chicag?
Why not New York? He was already living in New York.

By 'chance' he met Antoin 'Tony' Rezko,
born in Aleppo Syria, and a real estate developer in
Chicago. Rezko has been convicted of fraud and bribery
this year. Rezko, was named 'Entrepreneur of the
Decade' by the Arab-American Business and Professional
Association'. About two years later, Obama entered
Harvard Law School. Do you have any idea what tuition is
for Harvard Law School? Where did he get the money for Law
School? More student loans? After Law school, he went
back to Chicago. Rezko offered him a job, which he turned
down. But, he did take a job with Davis, Miner, Barnhill
& Galland. Guess what? They represented
'Rezar' which is Rezko's firm. Rezko was one
of Obama's first major financial contributors when he
ran for office in Chicago. In 2003, Rezko threw an early
fundraiser for Obama which Chicago Tribune reporter David
Mendelland claims was instrumental in providing Obama with
'seed money' for his U.S. Senate race.
In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwood District
of Chicago for $1.65 million (less than asking price).
With ALL those Student Loans - Where did he get the money
for the property? On the same day Rezko's wife, Rita,
purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price. The London
Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born Billionaire
loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Obama's new
home was purchased. Obama met Nadhmi Auchi many times with
Rezko.

Now, we have Obama running for President. Valerie
Jarrett, was Michele Obama's boss. She is now
Obama's chief advisor and he does not make any major
decisions without talking to her first. Where was Jarrett
born? Ready for this? Shiraz, Iran ! Do we see a pattern
here? Or am I going crazy?

On May 10, 2008 The Times reported, Robert Malley, advisor
to Obama, was 'sacked' after the press found out he
was having regular contacts with 'Hamas', which
controls Gaza and is connected with Iran. This past week,
buried in the back part of the papers, Iraqi newspapers
reported that during Obama's visit to Iraq, he asked
their leaders to do nothing about the war until after he is
elected, and he will 'Take care of things'.

Oh, and by the way, remember the college roommates that
where born in Pakistan ? They are in charge of all those
'small' Internet campaign contributions for Obama.
Where is that money coming from? The poor and middle
class in this country? Or could it be from the Middle East ?

And the final bit of news. On September 7, 2008, The
Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was made on
'This Week' with George Stephanapoulos. Obama on
talking about his religion said, 'My Muslim faith'.
When questioned, 'he made a mistake'. Some mistake!

All of the above information I got on line. If you would
like to check it - Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama;
Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times - Obama visited
Pakistan in 1981; The Washington Times - September 7, 2008;
The Times May 10, 2008.

Now the BIG question - If I found out all this information
on my own, Why haven't all of our 'intelligent'
members of the press been reporting this?

A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear - 'Beware of the
enemy from within'!!!

Posted by: John | October 7, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Of course McCain's mishap is fair game. It's also stupid (unlike Obama being pals with William Ayers UNREPENTENT after 9/11). If if Osama bin Laden can hang in there 32 years, will Democrats pal around with him too?!

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

This is in Obamas' own words out of his books.

Please read this and pray !

These are from his books!


FORWARD TO ALL YOU CAN.

From Dreams of My Father:'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'


From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'


From Dreams of My Father:'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'


From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'


From Dreams of My Father:'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

And FINALLY the Most Damning one of ALL of them!!!

From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

* If you have never forwarded an e-mail, now is the time to Do so!!! We CANNOT have someone with this type of mentality running our GREAT nation!! I don't care whether you a Democrat or a Conservative. We CANNOT turn ourselves over to this type of character in a President. PLEASE help spread the word.

Posted by: codowgy | October 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if the American people had to pay for all those planes he was crashing while 'goofing around' and 'pushing the envelope'.

Sound familiar?

Isn't everyone tired of bailing out someone after they 'goof around' and 'push the envelope'?

Posted by: Hmmm... | October 7, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Septuagenarian gigolo McGoo
Crashed every plane he flew
It's two thousand and eight
He still can't fly straight
Looks like this plane will crash too.

Posted by: PatMaGroyn | October 7, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Well, I was going to praise this story for reporting, until I saw it was taken from the LA Times. Just like WaPo to bury that, instead of put it into the second sentence.

JakeD, you're like the boy plugging the dike. McCain's got too many shortcomings for your fingers. Randy Cunningham was a hero, too, and a better pilot that McCain, but he was still a crook. And I can say that without disrespecting Cunningham''s service for his country.

I care much more that McCain gets advise from Phil Gramm than over Obama associating with a former radical who did bad things when Obama was EIGHT. Supposedly, people can redeem themselves, and no one has criticized Ayers' efforts in education. Gramm helped create this financial mess, hasn't owned up to it or apologized, and would likely be Treasury Secy. under McCain. Just what we need.

Posted by: gbboksdc | October 7, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

WHAT has Obama done for this country? NOT A THING. And will the country into the ground with his MUSLUM background. READ HIS BOOKS !!!

Posted by: COdowgy | October 7, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

McCain fits the model for fighter pilots I have known including outwardly supreme confidence. I distrust this capacity for covering up their inevitable mistakes on grounds that quick decisions are more important than deliberation. Not good enough for presidents.

Posted by: Paul R. Cooper | October 7, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

This is an incredibly cheap shot.

Shame on the Washington Post.

Posted by: Blue | October 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I talk with a lot of folks that I know about who they are going to vote for...get this...most of them are white...they tell me that they are voting for McCain...Why?...because they "don't want no black muslim in the white house".

Posted by: Racists: alive and well in the USA | October 7, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm certainly not the same person I was when I was 8. I did stupid things and in retrospect, I don't think I was a really nice person then. But I grew up. I would want to be judged as an adult, not as an 8-year-old.

And as a female, I want a woman who isn't undercutting women's issues. Making a rape victim pay for a rape kit is beyond demeaning. It is despicable, and the action of someone who wants to cut down on rape cases to improve the local crime rate. Fine, if someone lies about being assualted, make that person pay the bill--and file charges. But don't attack the victim.

I want a president who tries to do the best he can to the best of his abilities--right there, I have 2 reasons to vote Obama: his best is better than McCain's, and his record does not undercut his constituents (as McCain's does, regarding the veterans).

Posted by: SJ | October 7, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

COdowgy you are a bigot.

Bigot - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Posted by: Bigot | October 7, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

What scares me about McCain, among many things, is not his crashes many years ago, but his complete inability to use the internet with a personal computer. That he has not taken the minimal time to learn what would have to be described as a simple tool of technology in our time speaks volumes about him. Can't even repsond to an email John, and you want to lead us? Then there's Palin as his V.P., and he calls it Country First? It does not compute.

Posted by: darby o'gill | October 7, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

What McCain loves to call maverick is merely another word for the typical hotheaded gambler, the risk-taking hazardeur. From crashing three planes half a century ago to gambling on dimwit Palin for Vice President of the United States, his life was a series of thoughtless, erratic, and impulsive actions.

A guy who first shoots from the hip and asks questions later may be fun in cowboy movies but is dangerous in a statesman.

Posted by: bodo | October 7, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

How cool......The Dems don't need their own "Swift Boat" 527 group to scrutinize and trivialize McCain's Viet Nam war record, they have the Wash Post to do it for them!!

Oh well, my pet bird has to "s" on something - right? 8-)

Posted by: JC | October 7, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

drossless (or gbboksdc now):

Thank God I won't be around to see it, but if Osama bin Laden can hang in there 32 years, will it be OK for Democrats to pal around with him too?! Ayers has not "redeemed" himself when he remains UNREPENTANT even after 9/11. If you can answer that question, I would be happy to debate all of McCain's other "shortcomings".

P.S. -- I'd rather see MITT Romney as Treasury Secretary.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

bodo:

How many PT boats / planes did JFK / Bush41 crash?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I flew for a number of years in the Air Force. Every accident was reported as pilot error. Even if the engine quit running, if you didn't follow the exact procedure as outlined in the manual before bailing out it was pilot error.

The indication that a pilot really did something wrong is when they take his wings away. Failing that, the Navy probably didn't have too many problems with his flying ability.

If you review all the crashes from the last 50 years. They will be about 99.9 percent pilot error with a few that were downed by enemy fire.

I think if you knew more about it you wouldn't be giving McCain Pinochios for this.

Posted by: Brad2 | October 7, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

What scares me about McCain, among many things, is not his crashes many years ago, but his complete inability to use the internet with a personal computer.

Posted by: darby o'gill | October 7, 2008 3:10 PM


LOL That's what scares you. So your voting for Obama because he can surf the net? Its nice to know you have high standards.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

darby o'gill:

Are you aware that Sen. Biden criticized the Obama campaign ad about McCain not using a computer? As I understand his war injuries, he cannot keep his elbows at 90 degree angles for long periods of time. What's next, making fun of Bob Dole holding a pen in his fake hand?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

What McCain loves to call maverick is merely another word for the typical hotheaded gambler, the risk-taking hazardeur.

Posted by: bodo | October 7, 2008 3:13 PM


Thats not what a maverick is. Please stop getting your education from bad movies.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Fact Check, stalling an aircraft does not kill the engine or make it stop. The plane simply cannot recover to level flight unless it has enough altitude, that's why pilots practice these procedures.

John McCain's experience shows a complete lack of judgment from his Navy career, to his involvement with the Savings and Loan crisis and Charles Keating, to his now undeniable smear campaign against Barrack Obama.

One has to wonder if his recklessness resulted in his being shot down and becoming a POW? No branch of the service would ever publicly say that it was anything other than bravery, but his record indicates otherwise.

I was a military member for 20 years heavily involved in daily flight operations and I can say this, that five major aircraft mishaps in today's military would land you a job flying a desk and a dead end career as an officer.

The US economy is far to important to turn over to an individual that has promoted deregulation for the last 25 years, the same deregulation that now has this country teetering on the edge of financial disaster. He simply did not learn his lesson 20 years ago, there is no reason to believe he has changed.

If John McCain was elected President, rest assured it would not be four more years of Bush politics, it would be far worse.

Posted by: Mark Simpson | October 7, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Brad2:

To be fair, it probably didn't hurt that his father was an Admiral either ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Mark Simpson:

No one is arguing that an aircraft stall is the same as an engine failure -- that's a strawman argument, just like William Ayers doing good work for inner-city illiteracy -- if Osama bin Laden can hang in there 32 years, will it be OK for Democrats to pal around with him too?!

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Ria....Are you kidding me. You actually believe what comes out of the mouth of Hannity? All they want to do is win at all cost. No matter how they destroy the other party with their lies. Please investigate for yourself and stop believing what comes out of the mouth of Hannity. He just another Rush Limabugh.

Posted by: Peacemaker | October 7, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

McCain actually had a pretty good relationship with the press until he decided that all media were plague ridden scum (see RNC Convention & subsequent bombs thrown by the McCain Camp).
So... I can imagine that reporters might not be in love with McCain. I guess he should have thought about that before attacking.

Seems to be a trend in his thought process.

Posted by: norcal | October 7, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Mary G said: "Wow. This crash into the bay really is old news. Barack Obama wasn't even born in March 1960."

Mary, no one cares particularly about why he crashed 50 years ago. We care about why he lied about it 2 years ago. He said: "my engine quit." The Navy report says: "pilot error." Either the Navy or McCain is lying. You think it's the librul Navy?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

The US economy is far to important to turn over to an individual that has promoted deregulation for the last 25 years, the same deregulation that now has this country teetering on the edge of financial disaster.

Posted by: Mark Simpson | October 7, 2008 3:32 PM


Bill Clinton signed some of that dereulation into law. Considering some of those old economic advisors now work for Obama, and Obama is touting the great Clinton years, is Obama really in favor of more regulation?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

If old man McSame cannot type to use a computer allegedly because of war injuries, then who wipes his ass after a crap, Sarah or Cindi?

Posted by: truth squad | October 7, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

I would like to take exception to Mr. Dobb's assertions that John McCain is "fudging" his record concerning the crashes of aircraft he was flying while in the Navy. The military does not run by Constitutional guarantees of innocence without proof of guilt - guilty unless proven innocent is the rule. A pilot is responsible for his aircraft, and whenever a pilot is involved in an accident, he is assumed to have been at fault by investigators unless they find definitive proof of other causes. They don't always look very hard. I doubt the Navy raised the Skyraider McCain ditched into the sea, or sent divers down to investigate it after the crash. Without access to the plane, a "pilot error" judgment would therefore have been automatic no matter what the actual cause.

It seems obvious in the second peacetime crash, in 1965, that there was, indeed, sufficient evidence to move away from an initial assumption of pilot error. But without definitive proof of another cause, pilot error would have remained on the list of possibilities.

Posted by: David Sciacchitano | October 7, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

gbboksdc:
"....people can redeem themselves, and no one has criticized Ayers' efforts in education. Gramm helped create this financial mess, hasn't owned up to it or apologized, and would likely be Treasury Secy. under McCain."

Don't know where to begin with such stunted intellect.....
- Ayers has called himself a communist within the past decade, and as recently as 7 years ago REFUSED to apologize for his efforst in bombing what he saw as "evil targets"....i.e., US government buildings. So as long as he is a professor now, a former abortion clinic bomber would be ok in your book even if he refused to apologize for bombing abortion clinics?
- Gramm "likely" as Treas Secy? Where did you hear that, some left-wing blog you frequent? Did you not catch McCain's recent statement that he would probably hold over Paulson?
- Joe Biden voted for the Gramm legislation you despise, Robert Rubin (Obama's economic advisor) championed it, and Bill Clinton signed it. Are Biden and Bill Clinton as despicable in your eyes as Phil Gramm?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, the last "Anonymous" post at 4:08pm was me.

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

As a Reagan-republican, I am voting for Obama. I've enlisted at least 10 people to vote for Obama because of 1) race baiting by the current republican candidate 2) choice of an inept cartoon character as vp 3) lying about making this campaign about issues and not swift boating 4) flip-flopping on the environment 5) admitting he knows nothing about the economy. VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN '08

Posted by: bringbackReagan | October 7, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

SJ:
""I'm certainly not the same person I was when I was 8. I did stupid things and in retrospect, I don't think I was a really nice person then. But I grew up. I would want to be judged as an adult, not as an 8-year-old.""

What are you referring to? No one is being judged for what they did when they were 8 years old. Are you replying to something from a different board?
___________________
""as a female, I want a woman who isn't undercutting women's issues. Making a rape victim pay for a rape kit is beyond demeaning. It is despicable.""

If it's not too much to ask, could you at least stop posting known lies. CNN, a liberal-leaning media outlet, debunked this story. I think you can stop repeating this lie from left-wing blogs now.

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

bringbackReagan:

You are an obvious phoney. No "Reagan Republican", there is no way you would ever support Barack Obama. Tell us one Reagan policy that Obama supports?

You've been exposed.

Posted by: dbw | October 7, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

This business of to demonize "the other" in order to justify voting for them is ludicrous.
Obama is a graduate of Harvard Law, high scholastic achiever-Editor of Harvard Law Review. He is intellingent got into law school on merit.
McCain graduated 894 out of 899 from the US Naval Academy. Got into the naval academy because of family history.
No distinctive academic honors.
Obama served his country by giving up a lucrative law career for community service.
McCain went into the Navy, spent 5 years as a POW and has done nothing to ease the pain of families searching for the Vietnam POW's still MIA's.
Obama married to a woman who is a lawyer and achieved success in her own right.
McCain married an heiress, after dumping the woman who suffered through his captivity with him and was injured in her own right.
Obama espouses Christian values by putting his faith into action, uplifting people and helping them enrich their own lives.
McCain espouses Christian values.
Obama believes that the economy serves the people and that government has a fiduciary responsibility to protect the common good.
McCain believes in the "the free market economy" that promotes survival of the fittest and a government that has a limited role in regulating industry and enforcing the laws that protect the common good.
Obama has a health care plan that does not put Medicare, employer health care plans in jeopardy.
McCain would decrease health care benefits under Medicare-(fiddle with something that is not broken)and tax Employer paid health care benefits.
Obama will not push for privatization of SS in order to feed Wall Street Greed, he has a simple fix affecting those making over $250,000.00 annually.
McCain supported Bush's scheme to privatize Social Security and to "guilt" seniors into reduced benefits to save the plan for future generations. By the way, Health Savings Accounts (also a Bushie plan) have turned into a tax nightmare for employees.
Obama understands the economy and has creditable, respected financial advisers and is supported by Warren Buffett.
McCain is still pushing voodoo ecnonomics, and PHIL GRAMM "the great deregulator" as his primary financial adviser. And Phil Gramm told Americans to stop whining over a few job losses. The economy was fundamentally strong.
And finally, Obama will reduce taxes for 95% of the American working class and will not tax seniors with incomes of $50,000.00 and under.
John McCain would continue tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and corporations who have already demonstrated that "trickle down" does not work for most Americans.
So given the choice, I will take a chance on Obama's ideas that will heal the wounds of the nation, bring our troops home in 16 months, invest in Afghanistan and restore the reputation of America around the world.

Posted by: CarmanK | October 7, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

gee--wonder if he'd a got the medal of honor if he had completed his bombin' run instead of being shot down--"superb airmanship" amazing! only in the military is this level of incompetence rewarded to the ring knockers

Posted by: kenmareinc | October 7, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

As a Reagan-republican, I am voting for Obama.

Posted by: bringbackReagan | October 7, 2008 4:10 PM


LOL Come on Dems. You can do better than this.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

David Sciacchitano:

Actually, there was evidence from the wreckage to indicate the engine was still on. Regardless, McCain believes the "engine quit."

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Tracy said:
"the ONLY HEROES in war are the ones who DIED!"

We would like to award Tracy the 'Stupid Statement of the Day' award for Tuesday.

Sincerely,
The tens of thousands of critically wounded military veterans who most consider Heroes for risking their lives so Tracy can have the freedom to spout stupid opinions.

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I am not the guy who said he voted for Reagan in an earlier posting. I am a lifelong registered Democrat who did, in fact, vote for Reagan, no regrets either. I guess that makes me a Reagan Democrat. Anyway, I am voting for Obama now for the main reason that I voted for Reagan, this candidate makes the most sense for the period of time we are in presently. We need a change and that is obvious. We need a leader who is young enough and has energy enough to take on the multi-leveled challenges of the day. That is why I will vote for the Obama-Biden ticket.

Posted by: We the People | October 7, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

CarmanK:
"This business of demonize 'the other' in order to justify voting for them is ludicrous."

Why do you say it's ludicrous to demonize the other side in order to justify voting for someone.....and then paste a lengthy post that seeks to demonize John McCain to justify voting for Obama?

Typical liberal-speak. Tell the truth about Obama, it's "gutter politics". Tell half-truths and outright lies about John McCain, and it's "hard-nosed journalism".

Take your crap elsewhere, CarmanK.....

Posted by: dbw1 | October 7, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, would any of us want the guy finishing 5th from th bottom at Annapolis this year piloting a fighter with tons of jet fuel and enough weaponry to destroy major shopping mall? McCain wrote off 3 planes before he got shot down. And his hotdogging in Spain hitting a powerline does not factor into that. Even W had a better flying record and he was never in combat. This was a long time ago. But the point is, this is a reckless and uncurious man who has reafirmed this fact throughout his life.

Posted by: DMW | October 7, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Is "DMW" a different person than "dbw" and "dbw1"?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Bureaucracies have an incentive to put the blame on people rather than the institution they are responsible for. Individuals would of course prefer to blame the institution. In this instance the unbiased truth will most likely never be revealed.

If McCain had simply stated that though the official view was pilot error he remains convinced that the plane's engine did not respond. Then no one would think the worse of him or the Naval Aviation Center.

When will politicians learn that though none of us expect perfection we all yearn for honesty and openness from our elected representitives

Posted by: Johno | October 7, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Johno:

If he had written that, then the Obamaniacs would be complaining about something else, like "Why didn't he attach the report to his book?" At least he's never claimed to be under sniper fire in Bosnia or that his helicopter was forced down over enemy territory ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Come on people, Obama has his Palestian born college roomates helping him raise money for his campaigne and where do you think most of that money is coming from? I for one do not want this great country being run by someone we have know idea about and with money being tight it's amazing how the middle class has supported him with funds or are they? Hmmm.....I wonder if the Middle East has money to help him win the election? Anyone who votes for Obama is voting for our enemy.
Vote for a real American, vote McCain.

Posted by: Jacko | October 7, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Maverick = Lone Ranger. His congressional republicans won't follow him, the congressional democrats won't follow him, he's just a lone ranger who will crash and burn again. Let's not let him pilot our country when he crashes again!

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | October 7, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Okay, here is the truth, the real truth and nothing but the truth...according to, me. McCain is a lousy liar, a lousy party boy, a lousy first husband, a lousy politician, a lousy pilot, a lousy student in economics, a lousy, a lousy thief, and a lousy person that makes me itch. But his running mate is even lousier and louder using gestapo tactics and half truths. They both have bad tempers. What a lovely couple. They deserve each other but we do not deserve them.

Posted by: Taz | October 7, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

OK, I see that we've hit the bottom of the barrel now. If anyone wants to logically discuss the topic, please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

John McCain, when you were dropping bombs on the Vietnamese, did they die because their hearts stopped working?

Posted by: Kailassa | October 7, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"U.S. Navy records make clear that no blame can be attached to McCain for either of these incidents. McCain was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on his return from Vietnam and cited for his "superb airmanship" in the abortive raid on the power plant in Hanoi that ended with his capture and imprisonment by the North Vietnamese."

Hmm - so its approved procedure to ignore the missile that's locked onto your aircraft? Thereby costing the Navy and the taxpayers a multi-million dollar plane and a trained pilot? For a target that's not going to have much effect on the war at all?

What this speaks to is not history, but judgement and character, which only becomes more important when McCain seeks the most powerful office in the world. His decisions would affect every citizen and resident, not only of the US, but of the entire world; not just for today, but for years to come.

Posted by: FurShure | October 7, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

This article is absolute propaganda which would make Joseph Goebbels proud. This article leads with a picture of Senator McCains aircraft, after being shot down by a Communist surface to air missile, and then spins into a training mission crash. This article is wrong because it incorrectly links a combat incident with a training incident. If reporting cannot get any better than this article, the Washingtonpost needs to send their staff to the nearest quick stop to pump gas where their meaningless lives will at least have some positive value to society.

Posted by: Alpha_Blogger | October 7, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

The main point of the pattern of aircraft crashes is that the result was a Navy conclusion of "using poor judgment" on the part of McClain.

"using poor judgment" is also the exact conclusion of McCain's Keating 5 adventures.

Using poor judgment seems to be the story of the maverick's life, despite constant re-invention of his image.
Maverick = Crappy 1970s car.

Posted by: Ricardo | October 7, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

IMHO the 1970 Dodge Charger, Chevy Camaro, or Ford Mustang were fairly kick-ass cars.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

I made a nice video for Barack Obama at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MBrFWuKkWQ

Obama 2008. God bless USA.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous:

You aren't donating to Obama's web site, are you?

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 7:50 PM | Report abuse

McCain's engine "quit" because he stalled it. If only that were the most harmless lie from the McCain-Palin camp!

Posted by: Maezeppa | October 7, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh no, Maezeppa, please don't open that can of worms again. AN AIRCRAFT STALL IS NOT AN ENGINE STALL! Airflow was disrupted over the wings causing a loss of lift. It happens when a pilot fails to keep power setting at a high enough level and airspeed falls below the stall speed. The engine does not necessarily stop, just the planes ability to stay in the air.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Everything about John McCain is a lie.

That anyone will vote for this character is beyond me.

At age 73, dying of cancer as did his father and grand father; surrounded by the same group who brought us the disaster of Bush/Chaney, then why on earth will anyone with brain want to wish this country another 4 years of this nightmare?

That both the economy and defense have been weakened and wrecked by this duo and McCain,what then is to expect from old John and the witch from Wasilla?

Posted by: Songbird McCain | October 7, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

codowgy--do your homework (you ignoramus) before you post a lot of false stuff on these pages. I checked out your quotes allegedly made by Obama in his books, and like most of the negative fear-mongering garbage that you right wing nut fringe types circulate to each other in emails, it is patently false:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

Posted by: truth wins over fear | October 7, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

... Unless John McCain missed a clear item on his checklist regarding the engine, or ran out of gas, the cause of this crash was a dead engine, not pilot error.

Posted by: David B | October 6, 2008 2:59 PM
--------------------------------------
I am not a pilot, but I have read training manuals. Each type of plane has a different stall speed, a pilot has to know what it is. If you go below that speed, your plane will drop out of the sky. Period. He would not have to run out of gas.

Posted by: J Rhinehart | October 7, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Songbird McCain:

Neither died from cancer. His father died on a military plane returning from Europe, and his grandfather died the day after he got back from WWII. McCain's mom is still alive and kicking! What else can we expect from Obamaniacs, I guess.

Posted by: JakeD | October 7, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

If McCain crashed 5 planes then the North Vietnamese made a big mistake in keeping him prisoner. They should have repatriated him as fast as they could in hopes that he would be back in the air ASAP. After all, if a North Vietnamese pilot destroyed 5 American planes he'd be considered an ace.

Posted by: True North | October 7, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Jake D and Jamie are rethug trolls on these websites - probably GOP operatives to try and spew out some nonsense.

Posted by: Anothervoice | October 7, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Hey, if McCain is going to run on his glorious war record he can't cherry pick it. He was a pyss poor student and his basic nature was a "maverick" with a whole lot of hubris and entitlement issues. A maverick isn't someone I respect because most maverick think they are above the rules, like "I'm John McCain and I don't need to perform no stinkin flight protocols." "I'm John McCain my Daddy is an Admiral, and I can do what I damn well please. Don't care if it endangers anyone else." This is what scares me about him, because it speaks to the foundation of his character. He thinks the world owes him something. Maybe if he had read how to fly the plane he wouldn't have been a POW. He has to own some responsibility in his own capture as far as I am concerned. Oh, and he creeps me out when he smiles and says that fake a$$ "my friends."

Posted by: Jaxsax | October 7, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Good heaven's, crashing planes in this manner was reason enough for a court marshall in any other circumstances so why do people stick up for McCain. He put lives at risk every time he took to the skies and when he was shot down he was actually recklessly committing a war crime.

He is lucky the US Tiger Forces didn't get hold of him and mistake him for the VC as they did thousands of South Vietnamese civilians throughout 1967.

Vietnam was a bad war, lost by insane people and based on stupid lies.

Sound familiar to the ignorant republicans here?

Posted by: Marilyn | October 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Jake D, that was Obama warning about Fannie and Freddie, not McCain. We have known that even in Australia for weeks so I was astonished to hear McCain come up with that nonsense today.

He believes in no regulation, anything goes and his staff are Fannie and Freddie's former executives so how on earth can you simply believe McCain when he twists things around weeks after the truth has been known?

Beyond stupid, it was beyond stupid.

Posted by: Marilyn | October 7, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

McCain did not accept the offer from the North Viet Namese for release dut to the fact he might have been facing murder charges in connection with the USS Forrestal incident in which he "wet-started" his jet to surprise the pilot in the F-4 behind him.

Posted by: jime | October 7, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

John McCain: Hates pork, Loves fudge! Not bad,except he doesn't mind pork (he fudges it).

Posted by: Anonymous | October 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

soldiers fight and suffer as a matter of service,commitment,and duty wounded captured or not they are all heroes in a way.but in our culture it means more than performing our duty to be a hero.but doing so in an extra ordinary and honorable fashion.john McCain was a good and dutiful soldier.but he did(under horrible duress and torture)give aid and comfort to the enemy.against the uniform code of military justice in return for medical care and better treatment.i don't judge john McCain for this.as it didn't happen to me,so i don't know that i would have done any better.i only bring it up because there were Real heroes who suffered worse and even died rather than do once what McCain did four times.i once had the honor of knowing such a man.he didn't tell me about it some one else did.he never once thought of himself as a hero.much less claimed to be one.nor did he ever tell his story.much less for his own gain at every opportunity.so for me john McCain is no hero.i respect his service to our country, but his very claims of heroism flies in the face of every thing i was taught about heroes and honor

Posted by: Michael revels | October 8, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

Forgive the intrusion but I see constant referral to McCain's "Honorable" Admiral
father. .....As if this gives him some inherited and elevated status.

As I recall the fiasco of the U S S Liberty and its deliberate destruction by the Israeli Air Force. I believe Admiral
McCain was complicit in the cover up of that shameful act that persists to this day, to the detriment of the U S Naval ratings who suffered as a consequence.

Does that mean obfuscation,and terminological inexactitudes are a family trait?

tomedgar@halenet.com.au

Posted by: Tom Edgar | October 8, 2008 3:01 AM | Report abuse

What "Naval ratings" are you referring to? Are you even a U.S. citizen?

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Marilyn:

1. Do you have sources other than radical left-wing blogs for your nonsense?

2. If you aren't a U.S. citizen, how can you have so much arrogance as to lecture Americans on what we should want? Oh, that's right. You support Obama. That explains the arrogance of ignorance....

Posted by: dbw1 | October 8, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns. He probably doesn't know how many planes he's wrecked either.

Posted by: Picklehead | October 8, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

to all the conservative poster here and you know who you are:
1.If you don't tell the truth, then you must be lying.
2.read the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" especially about aiding and abetting the enemy even if a POW.
3.Naval ratings refers to the enlisted men you putz, and Jaked what branch of the service were you in? I thought as much.
4. McCain aided and abetted the enemy and is a traitor, ask some of his fellow pals.
5. Some of you dipwads need to move on

Posted by: WingnutMcCain | October 8, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I was in the Army during the Korean War. You?

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Sen. John McCain clearly won last night's debate.

Democrats for John McCain and Sarah Palin in 2008.

Posted by: Kristi | October 8, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Kerry won his debates against Bush in 2004. If Obama can rock (or steal) the vote, the debate won't matter. At least we know why he was so scared to do townhall meetings with McCain.

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

It’s astounding the level of ignorance posted on these blogs in terms of Truth and Fiction for BOTH candidates.

I would recommend that everyone posting in an obviously slanted manner take some time and research things on their own using independent sources of information before purporting to have an informed and educated opinion that is driving their decision to vote for one person or the other…

For instance, to think that McCain was a bad pilot simply because there are reports blaming it on Pilot Error, shows that anyone saying that has absolutely NO business making any kind of argument about it. The FACT is (as others have stated on the blog) 99.9% of downed planes are classified as Pilot Error and there are several reasons why. If you cannot take the time to read the reasons why on this blog, ask a military pilot what THEY think about it so you can get up to speed with FACTS.

As a counter-point, think about Obama and his actions (or for some his lack thereof) and his associations he has chosen to pursue over his career. Some say they won’t vote for him simply because he is inexperienced or because he hangs out with terrorists and bigots… Or that he is an elitist. The facts are a wonderful thing, and I for one would NEVER say he is inexperienced as a politician coming from Chicago and his training there, but there are other aspects that I do consider when making my choice for POTUS such as prior judgments and the successes (well actually they all ended up failing) as a community organizer, Illinois legislature, or even as part of the US Senate.

My point is, for each “story” there is Truth and Fiction. It is up to EVERYONE who is voting to VALIDATE what you are hearing and seeing on the TV and papers yourselves, and not take the word of the talking-heads and slanted reporters.

It takes time out of YOUR life to do this, but I promise the rewards and payoff will be immense as you begin to see everything that is NOT reported and misrepresented so that you can make a choice for POTUS that is not biased from outside influence in any way.

And if anyone bothers to attack me on anything I said about the two candidates in the above statements, YOU are part of the problem and are but one of the millions that I am directing this post to. If you don’t know what I am talking about, god help us all.

Posted by: Yawn | October 8, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The most basic piece of knowledge for any aviator is to stay above stall speed whether by pointing the nose down or adding power or a combination of both. This is ingrained so deeply, whether in Naval Aviation Primary training or in lessons at your local airport, that I'm stunned that he was "behind the curve" on that point. It's so ingrained as to become instinctual and subconscious. I now understand why he doesn't "get" so many other things that seem obvious to the rest of us such as the need to put a lot of R&D money to work in the alternative energy field.

Posted by: Steve Buerkle | October 8, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Blaming the crash on an engine failure, when the official investigation found no such thing is not "a considerable stretch" It is a simple lie. The sort of lie a 4-year-old says when you ask him how the lamp got broken and he says "It wasn't my fault!"

Posted by: JohnR | October 8, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Ok citizens, elect Obama and your electing someone who had Palestian college roommates who are now helping him raise money for his campaigne; Visted Palestian even though he couldn't afford it which makes me wonder where the money came from; Went to a church that blames all the black people wrongs on the white people; Associated with Ayers who is a know terrorist; His college was funded by Reznek who now is covicted of money laundering and who also helped Obama with purchasing a $300,000 home right out of college. Did anyone of you research the terrorist handbook? Referred in one interview saying "My Muslim brothers". The biggest goal for them is to get a Muslim to control our countries future and we are very close to that happening. Read Obama's book and make sure you pay special attention to what he has to say about what his father taught him, it puts chills down my body.
I want a true American and even if Obama was running against a monkey, I would still vote for the monkey. Obama will make the Middle East prosper while paying little attention to our needs. I bet the streets in the Middle East will be full of people cheering if Obama is President, wait and see.

Posted by: Jacko | October 8, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

JohnR:

The key difference, of course, between McCain's alleged "lie" and your 4-year-old's lie is that McCain admitted it was his fault: "I crashed my plane." Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

"Still think McCain hasn't fudged his Navy record? Here's what the LA Time is reporting"

You've got to be kidding me! Are you naiive enough to believe that "rag"? The LA Times is almost as lfet wing in their reporting practices as the New York Yimes!

They do not report the facts, but twist the story to support their socialist left wing agenda. Try again, maybe you'll have us believing that Fannie May never happened, and that Obama didn't support the program which led to our current financial fiasco. After all, news reports have clearly established that the Congress has been controlled by the democraps for the majority of the Bush adminstrations term!

Posted by: Jordan | October 8, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

So Obama feels that people who don't want to work, illegal immigrants and others without insurance should have the right to it? Give me a break, I work hard for what I have and insurance is part of it, but to give it to anyone who doesn't contribute to America in one way or another it just plain stupid. I will stop working then because then I can live off of food stamps and free insurance.

Posted by: Jimbo | October 8, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Jordon:

Democrats have been the majority in Congress only since 2007. Bush's term started in 2001.

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

WingnutMcCain

How truly bias and blind can anyone be? I guess it is somewhat apparent that you have blinders on and because your heart is darkened, you believe the drivel you are spouting to us who served in the military, in a combat environment.

The torture used by the North Vietnamese was cruel and continuous. They've had century's to refine the art. I wonder just how long you would hold out if you were to be subjected to just one fifth the pain and torture these men endured? You'd spill your guts after the third day, for you have no charachter, no patriotism, and no concept of what you are talking about.

Treason is a very strong word for you arm chair quarterbacks who fight the good fight with your pea brain and big mouths! Walk a mile in anyone of these mens shoes before you lambaste men who put their lives on the line for their country, so that you now enjoy the freedoms you now have, purchased by far better men than you, many of whom sacrificed everything so you can sit there in your easy chair and impress us with your ignorance.

McCain was not the only one who broke! A great many men broke or died. You spout your arrogant drivel just to hear yourselves talk, or is it truly ignorance that drives you to support a man who will lead you into a purely socialistic society?

Nearly 47 years ago, I was told that one day this nation would become a "Socialist State." Of course none of us wanted to beleive that this nation would ever cease to be a democratic republic of people. But, now I see that it will become just like that because blind men, seduced by their "political messiah" Obama, are indeed declaring, we want the government to feed us, clothe us, house us, and wipe our butts! Ever heard the term "control of the masses"? Thats what you are asking for!

You blindly call good evil and evil good! But what kind of legacy are you leaving for your children, not that any of you left wing liberal "wingnuts" care. For this is all about you, not the future of this society. You'll get more government control all right! Kiss you freedoms good bye! No more personal ownership of property, no more rights to go hunting for you will have no guns to hunt with, no more freedom of speech, no more religious freedom, no more personal wealth. You will live to support the government. Your existence, your very lives will be controlled by more and more of "Big Brothers" oversight!

If Obama is elected, you will either pay for medical insurance through your employer or out of your own pockets, and if you can't afford it, his system will fine you! That's just what the man said! Are you people deaf? How many low income family's can afford to pay the premmiums for current healthcare without sacrificing food, housing, or their general quality of life? Try about 50 Million families! Thats right, 50 Million!

You strain at a nat and eagerly swallow a camel, for you are truly blinded, just as the German people were seduced and blinded by Adolf Hitler, which was not unlike your "political messiah", which I might add came to power in quite similar economic tmes! Hitler indeed promised "change". If you learn nothing from history, man will repeat the same mistakes again and again!

I do not think that I have witnessed, over the past 60 years of my life, a more gullable and blind group of people that I see in this present day! What boggles the mind is that many of you eagerly embrace this man of evil!

Posted by: Jordan | October 8, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

I would like to know about John McCains POW/MIA coverup of Vietnam vets still missing? Why did he want this covered up, DAVES, SPIKE, TRUTH BILL, Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA AFFAIRS on Vietnam when JOHN McCAIN testified when relased from prison.

Posted by: nancy L | October 8, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Jordon:

I otherwise agree with all your posts. God help us if we become an Obama nation.

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

If any other pilot had crashed as many planes, whether in training or flying home from the Army-Navy game, they would not have been allowed to fly anymore. There was no "engine failure." There was pilot failure. More than once.

Posted by: Katie | October 8, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

JakeD

Perhaps you should recheck your facts! Now you will be expecting me to believe that it wasn't the Democraps under Clinton that sowed the roots of our current economical crisis...dah!

Here is an excellent example of Federal Regulations run amuck...

The Real Culprits In This Meltdown:

INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted 9/15/2008

Big Government: Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it's dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it.

Obama in a statement yesterday blamed the shocking new round of subprime-related bankruptcies on the free-market system, and specifically the "trickle-down" economics of the Bush administration, which he tried to gig opponent John McCain for wanting to extend.

But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions.

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Reinvestment Act*, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

Yes, the market was fueled by greed and over leveraging in the secondary market for sub-primes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.

And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi-governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America.

As soon as Clinton crony Franklin Delano Raines took the helm in 1999 at Fannie Mae, for example, he used it as his personal piggy bank, looting it for a total of almost $100 million in compensation by the time he left in early 2005 under an ethical cloud.

Other Clinton cronies, including Janet Reno aide Jamie Gorelick, padded their pockets to the tune of another $75 million.

Raines was accused of overstating earnings and shifting losses so he and other senior executives could earn big bonuses.

In the end, Fannie had to pay a record $400 million civil fine for SEC and other violations, while also agreeing as part of a settlement to make changes in its accounting procedures and ways of managing risk.

But it was too little, too late. Raines had reportedly steered Fannie Mae business to subprime giant Countrywide Financial, which was saved from bankruptcy by Bank of America.

At the same time, the Clinton administration was pushing Fannie and her brother Freddie Mac to buy more mortgages from low-income households.

The Clinton-era corruption, combined with unprecedented catering to affordable-housing lobbyists, resulted in today's nationalization of both Fannie and Freddie, a move that is expected to cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.

And the worst is far from over. By the time it is, we'll all be paying for Clinton's social experiment, one that Obama hopes to trump with a whole new round of meddling in the housing and jobs markets. In fact, the social experiment Obama has planned could dwarf both the Great Society and New Deal in size and scope.


Posted by: Jordan | October 8, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Jordon:

Looks like friendly fire to me ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I meant "Jordan". I was simply correcting you about Congress being in the majority most recently only since 2007. As I said, I agree with all of your other points.

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Sorry if I missed the following as sarcastic: "news reports have clearly established that the Congress has been controlled by the democraps for the majority of the Bush adminstrations term!"

Posted by: JakeD | October 8, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Allow me to check my sources and I'll get back to you on that "friendly fire."

Posted by: Jordan | October 8, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

I have one issue which should be of grave concern to everyone of you. The television and newspare media of this nation should be above personal bias, refrain from manipulating the news to further their own political bias, for they have a public trust placed upon them to report factual unbias events.

Todays media (NBC, CBS, NYT) have, due in my opinion, failed to aire anything concerning the recent indictment of the son of a Tenn. Democratic Lawmaker, for hacking into Sarah Palins e-mail account.

Considering the fact that Obama is spending, in some areas of the country, SIX (6) times more money for his presidential campaign than that of McCain, we see a clear case of someone trying to "buy" the White House and the left wing liberal news media is manipulating the facts to aide him in his quest.

Even though Obama now has raised in excess of $494 MILLION DOLLARS, he is still asking for contributions.

Whats wrong with this picture? Neither NBC nor ABC ran one small clip of this breaking news story on the "hacker", who, if it was done to you or I, would most certainly offend and anger us. Why do these manipulators of truth continue to shield Obama from negative news reports?

I am sick of their bias journalism, for I recent strongly their attempts to manipulate the hearts and minds of myself and my fellow contrymen.

Posted by: Jordan | October 8, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm so sick of hearing McCain/Palin being defended. Off come my gloves. McCain is an obnoxious old man. Graduated 5th from the bottom of his naval academy class, crashed planes, quit or retired from the Navy because he was not going anywhere, divorced his disabled first wife, married money, was part of the Keating bunch and is just too old and sick-looking to be President. Palin looks like a pretty bobble-head doll. Chatty Cathy was cute. Palin is too old to be cute. She should have said "no" to being the VP candidate. She is not a friend of women, wildlife or the environment. Obviously, abstinence only does not work as is evidenced by her own daughter. She hauls around her disabled child and pregnant daughter for spectacle. In my book Sarah Palin is an unfit mother. Guess I've said more than enough. The gods help the USA if these two ding-dongs are elected.

Posted by: Doris. V. Albuq. NM | October 8, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Since Palin did a bit better in her debate with Senator Biden, following her interview with Katie Couric, a public relations friend of mine is convinced Palin wore an earpiece and had responses fed to her while she was "winkin', blinkin' and golly-geeinit' to Joe six-pack provin' she is a good-old-gal! Following completely in the footsteps of George W. After the past eight years, I don't think it will cut it this time!

Posted by: Denise Retter | October 8, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Denise and Doris:

Obviously you have not understood my posts! You may assess the qualifications of a political candidate by his looks or refuse to acknowlege that your candidate is a pure "socialist" who whispers sweet nothings in your ears. Women always seem to leave their intelligence in check when a smooth talking, lying male politician walks into the room!

So many were beguiled by Adolf Hitler because the German people were very unhappy due to financial problems which plagued Germany after the war (WW I). Along come Adolf promising "change", more jobs, government aide, etc. He sure gave them change alright.

Hitler also recruited the youth of Germany. and low n behold, Obama wants our children to become active in his political plans for America. Sound familiar? Adolf took the same approach. Listen to his comments, financial penalties for families that do not have health care for their children, whether they can afford it or not. Just as Hitler did when he came to power, Obama manipulates the media to deceive the American people through his political netwrok. Threatens to file legal suit against any television station that "spreads falsehoods" about him, when he has been the biggest liar with his false claims and his past voting record.

Obviously he is fearful that the public might beleive the facts, which would hurt him at the voting booth.

I do not consider McCain the best man for the job, but if McCain isn't the best man for the job, Obama would be the worst of any I've seen! If he (Obama) is elected, allow me to say that you will get everything you asked for!

He will generate more and more legal restrictions, expand government controls which will stifle business and economical growth, initiate restrictions on freedom of speech, (1st Ammendment guarantees)and the tentacles of "Big Brother" will invade every aspect of your lives, not to mention, turn the abortion slaughter houses into a larger entity than they now are.

After all, our tax dollars have been subsidizing every abortion mill in this country, specifically Planned Parenthood, who has received over $5 Million in the past 2 years in federal subsidies. The same organization that is now going into kindergartens and teaching sex education to tots, with no mention of moral restrictions or guidelines. They are even exposing our little ones to "alternate lifestyle choices".

Obama has always voted to fund and support these abortion clinics with our tax dollars. Why not, they are putting money in his pocket through substantial political contributions.

He openly supports Odinga in Kenya, who is responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of Christians! His Harvard Law School expenses were subsidized by the same Muslim who help fund the "Black Panthers" of the 60's and 70's.

He has supported every gun control legislation which has come before him. He has twice voted against the "Child Protection Act", and hhe openly supports "Partial Birth Abortion".

Join with him in his quest to "change" America! But I assure you, you will come to regret your choice and your ignorance. McCain is a saint compared to the man. A man who is deceiving millions of people who follow the spirit of this world and not the spirit of the holy God who created all that you see and do not see.

You certainly have a right to serve your false gods. That again is your right of choice. But in the end, your "political messiah" will throw you and yours to the wolves to further his own evil agenda. Eat, drink, and make merry, for you have little time left and the party will be over!

Posted by: Jordan | October 9, 2008 4:12 AM | Report abuse

Doris. V. Albuq:

Even if all that were true, I would still vote for McCain-Palin over Obama-Biden.

Posted by: JakeD | October 9, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

The McCain/Palin ticket needs to stop beating the same redundant dead horse they have been repetitively beating with the same comments about this Muslim mole, Hussein Obama!

They need to publicly address the "root" cause of our current economic crisis. McCain said he would name names. Isn't it about time that he did just that? Start with the Democrats free spending practices under the Clinton Administration for one. What about it John and Sarah, are you up for just speaking the raw truth?

The obvious problem with McCains candidacy is that his public image falls short of his smooth talking and deceptive opponent. He repats himself over and over again. The other problem is that the present generation wants a government that will feed them, clothe them, house them, and wipe their butts when they mess themselves.

Our founding fathers knew the dangers of this when they framed the US Constitution and all previous generatons, up to now, wanted less government control and regulation in their lives, while the present generation wants more control and the same freedoms we had. It doesn't work that way!

If our government was unable to steer us away from the present economic fiasco, how is it that this present generation expects that same cluster of bureaucrats to safeguard our freedoms in the future? They are merely blind men leading the blind. Is there any doubt that with this generations mindset that we will all fall in the same ditch?

I have lived long enough to see a wayward and ignorant people embrace SOCIALISM under Obama, who is not only a socialist, but a man who is deceptive. How very tragic for a nation which was once a shining light and hope to those less fortunate than ourselves. A nation of people which feared God is now systematically removing all trace of HIM in their public and private lives.

Posted by: Jordan | October 9, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Keating Five/Idiotic Winker '08
Oh My God! That is HILARIOUS!

Posted by: We are NOT Joe 6-Packs! | October 9, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

My uncles fought in World War II, and they never, ever talk about their service. After much prying we discovered that one of them had escaped a POW camp in North Africa overseen by the Desert Fox, Rommel, and traveled by foot up through Italy to freedom in the Alps. Truly heroic, but again, he would never describe himself as a hero. As we have found with Randall Duke Cunningham, for years he shielded his nefarious deeds (he's in jail for bribery, as you may recall) under the banner of Top Gun fighter pilot which he crowed about at every opportunity. If you have to brag about being a maverick or a war hero, then there's something you're hiding from either yourself or others.

Posted by: SaladSD | October 9, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I remember when that Tom Cruise, hot-shot incident happened in Spain--I didn't know who the pilot was at the time, but it was no small incident. The people there were furious with him and the US. I guess they were sick of all the adolescent behavior of the US airmen flying over, and under the lines and endangering the citizens.
From the stories about his impulsive,some times explosive behavior, he hasn't changed much. The latest, he couldn't have his boyfriend, Snoopy Liberman, as his running mate so he grabbed (maybe even physically) the most inexperience and inappropriate person he could to run as his VP. What a loser he is.

Posted by: Elisabeth | October 9, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Obama Campaign Runs Afoul of Finance Rules

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 8:25 PM

By: Kenneth R. Timmerman Article Font Size

A Newsmax investigation of Barack Obama’s presidential campaign finance reports has turned up more than 2,000 cases in which individuals have made donations far above the legal limit of $2,300 per election.


Such donations, if not returned within 60 days, violate federal campaign finance laws.


Some can be chalked up to common names, such as Michael Brown, William Taylor, or James Smith.

But many others cannot.

On Aug. 31, for example, the Obama campaign filed a report listing a single donation from a Debra Myers in “Rancho Palos Verde, Calif.,” for $28,500 – more than 10 times the amount the law allows per election. Although Debra Myers is identified as a physician, only two individuals with that last name have a listed phone number in Rancho Palos Verdes (the city’s name actually does have an “s” at the end). Neither is a Debra or a “D” Myers, or a physician.


The Obama campaign also identified Woodrow Myers Jr. of Indianapolis, Ind., on Aug. 31 as having given $28,500 to the campaign. Woodrow “Woody” Myers is a former Indiana state health commissioner who spent $2.1 million of his own money in a failed special election to challenge Andre Carson, the grandson of U.S. Rep. Julia Carson, who died in December. The younger Carson won the race this year, with heavy backing from lobbyists, the Democratic Party and related PACs. (Interestingly, Woodrow Myers' wife is identified as Debra, although Newsmax could not confirm whether this is the same Debra Myers the campaign report lists as being from Palos Verdes.)

In an initial reply to Newsmax questions, the Obama campaign said it had refunded both contributions on Sept. 30, a day after a Newsmax investigation was published that revealed extensive federal election campaign violations by the campaign.

[Read “Secret, Foreign Money Floods Into Obama Campaign” — Go Here Now].

The Republican National Committee cited that earlier Newsmax investigation in a formal complaint against the Obama campaign with the Federal Election Commission on Monday.

Several hours later, Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt e-mailed Newsmax to say that the contributions had been “reattributed” to the Obama Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee with the Democratic National Committee, and that the excess had been refunded.

That still put both Debra Myers and Woodrow Myers over the federal limits – unless the Obama campaign refunded their entire checks, since Debra gave another $28,500 earlier in the year to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Woodrow was way over the $108,2000 overall election cycle limit for individuals.

Individuals can give $2,300 to a federal candidate in both the primary and the general election, for a total of $4,600 in a single election cycle. They also can give $28,500 to a national party committee, $10,000 to a state or local committee, and $5,000 to other political committees.

If a candidate loses the primary, any money counted toward the general election must be refunded, a wrinkle in the federal election laws that can sink losing candidates deep in debt.

In exchange for receiving federal funding, the McCain campaign agreed not to take any money from individual donors for the general election, so its donors are limited to $2,300.

In addition to Debra Myers and Woodrow Meyers, hundreds of other individual donors have given to the Obama campaign far in excess of the legal limit, a Newsmax analysis of campaign finance records shows.


Among them:

James Sievers of Big Sky, Mont., gave a total of $20,700 to the campaign, in five donations between March and June of this year. The campaign has returned close to $7,000 of the money but has kept the rest.

Martin Dies of Austin, Texas, also gave $20,700 to the campaign, in four separate checks, each dated June 30, 2007. The campaign returned $2,300 of it immediately, and another $4,600 in September, but kept $13,800 – three times the legal limit.

Robert Watt of Brooklyn, N.Y., gave close to $17,000 to the campaign starting in February of this year, including a whopping $10,000 check logged by the campaign on Aug. 31. Despite the obvious violation of the campaign limits, FEC records show that the campaign returned just $2,300.

Ryan Finley of Portland, Ore., has given $15,400 to Obama for America, starting with two checks on March 6, 2007, totaling $6,900. The campaign immediately returned $2,300, bringing him within the legal limit. He gave another $8,500 in a lump sum on Aug. 26, 2008.

Ms. Merry T. O’Donnell of Juno Beach, Fla., has given $13,150 to the Obama campaign, starting with three donations in March 2007 that totaled $2,000. In January 2008, she gave two more donations of $1,000 each, as well as donations for $600 and for $2,000. In February, she gave another $4,600. As of the latest filing, the campaign has refunded just $2,300 of the total, leaving her net donations at over two times the legal limit for the two elections.

Jerry Rubin of Whitefish Bay, Wis., has given $12,700 to the Obama campaign in varying amounts since February 2007. Despite the obvious violation, the campaign has refunded just $3,400 of that total, still putting him at double the legal limit.

These are just a sampling of the 2,087 individuals who have given Obama more than the $4,600 combined total for the primaries and the general election.

Donors with common names but who live in different parts of the country are among these 2,087 names. For example, the top individual contributor is Michael Brown, listed as giving $36,706 to the campaign.

But a closer look turns up what appear to be 46 different people sharing the same name, each giving addresses in different cities around the United States.

Newsmax has screened donors appearing in the FEC database to weed out those with similar names and different addresses.

For example, in the examples listed in this article, we have eliminated any donations from individuals with the same name who are listed as having a different address.

The FEC regularly sends letters to the Obama campaign, questioning contributions that appear to go over the legal limits. In many cases, the Obama campaign has amended its reports as a result.

But the examples cited here have not been amended.

“It is illegal to make contributions in excess of the limits, and it is illegal to receive contributions in excess of the limits,” FEC spokesman Bob Biersack told Newsmax.

So both the donors and the campaign may have broken the law. “But there are lots of circumstances, and until the four commissioners have agreed to rule, it’s hard to judge,” he said.

Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt told Newsmax that the McCain campaign also has caught excess donations and has “refunded $1.2 million in contributions.”

Sean Cairncross, the general counsel for the Republican National Committee who filed the complaint with the FEC on Monday, told Newsmax that the McCain campaign has been “completely transparent with respect to its contributions” by making the names of all donors available to the public in a searchable database. The McCain campaign has even disclosed donors of $200 or less, though it is not required to do so. The Obama camp has not disclosed those donors.

“The Obama campaign has steadfastly refused to make that information public,” he said.

Referring specifically to the huge amount of money that the Obama campaign claims it has raised from small donors, Cairncross said the identity and nationality of those donors could very well remain secret until well after the election unless the Obama campaign makes their names public.

“The American people deserve to know where $250 million in contributions — money that could potentially elect a president — is coming from,” he said. “And at this point, we have no way of knowing.”

Posted by: Jordan | October 9, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

So whats the penalty for violation of these Federal Laws? This article should give the average individual who has some moderate degree of intellect cause to question what Obama is hiding? And why, in view of McCains voluntary disclosure on the same issue.

And to be more specific, if he's unwilling to disclose the truth about this, just what else is he hiding? It's one thing to think that one is being deceptive and has hidden motives, but it is indeed quite a different matter when you find that some one is in fact deceptive and deceiving his own supporters.

To all of you blind followers of the blind, why don't you open your eyes and gain an understanding that this man is NOT what he pretends to be with his slick talk and empty promises!

Posted by: Jordan | October 9, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

"Socialism." Socialism was built into the Constitution of the United States of America. It is not a new idea. The concept was not created by Marx.

"... in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty..."

The Preamble gives an view into the goals of the Founders in the construction of the Constitution. The end goal of Justice, Liberty, and Tranquility is a common good. An economy based on true capitalism does not promote the General Welfare, it promotes a General Greed. The notion that success is individual, that to reach a "top" you need to use the daggers you planted in the backs of people as steps.

That being said, Socialism, Capitalism, and Communism are all extremes - reference points that have never been, and never will be reached. Anyone that wants a true Capitalist economy is as much an extremist as someone that wants a true Communist Economy. The fact that Congress is given direct power to Regulate Interstate Commerce destroys the possibility of a True Capitalist society.

So, if American isn't truly a Capitalist Economy, what is it? Well, according to further changes to made over the years, it is increasing less Capitalist. Social Security, Income Tax, Public Education - all of these oppose a "Capitalist Economy."

Per Capitalism, your parents would have had to pay whatever rate the nearby Institutions of Education wanted you to pay - suddenly all schooling is Private. Only those able to afford it may receive it.

No public libraries, museums, emergency rescue groups (including paramedics, firefighters, and police). You want to use a library, you pay their fees. You get into a car accident - well you better have some cash on you to pay the paramedic on the spot to set your broken leg. House on fire? Hopefully your credit card clears in time so the Firefighters can be dispatched to put it out.

Socialism isn't an enemy. Neither is Capitalism. Neither is Communism. They are unattainable ideals. As history has taught us, the extremes, no matter what the extremes are in any given instance, are rarely a good thing. It is a combination of things that wins in the end.

The U.S. economy was written to be part Capitalism, part Socialism, part Communism. You are free to accumulate wealth from innovation; however, you must pay taxes on that wealth to help those unable to afford the basics in life - but if you are in the military or public service, no matter how good you do - you make just as much as the person next to you of the same rank.

All this is a moot point, of course. From the Left I'll hear crap, from the Right I'll hear crap. Again, not that it matters, I'm neither - like the vast Majority of Americans. I don't support bicameral politics.

I support the Constitution, and the roles it gives the various parts of the government.

For the Record, I voted:
Bush over Clinton
Clinton over Dole
Bush over Gore
Kerry over Bush

Posted by: Jeffersonian | October 9, 2008 9:38 PM | Report abuse

mccain is an incompetent idiot who was protected by his forefathers. he should have been bounced from the navy flight program for costing us about a $100 million dollars for the planes he crashed due to his incompetence. to think he should now claim to be a hero because he was such a poor pilot he was shot down in the vietnam war, when we had an awesome kill record, served 6 yrs in an enemy prison because he GOT CAUGHT. that is not a hero. that is a FAILURE!!!!

Posted by: richard | October 10, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse

Inside Cover

Obama 'Lying' About Muslim Past, Expert Says

Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:19 PM
By: David A. Patten


Sen. Barack Obama “is lying” when he insists that he has never prayed in a mosque and was never a Muslim, a prominent Middle East expert and journalist says.
Daniel Pipes, founder of the Middle East Forum think tank, says he fully accepts that Obama is a Christian now. But there is strong evidence that Obama received a Muslim upbringing during his years in Indonesia, Pipes said.

“It’s fine with me that he was a Muslim and a convert to Christianity,” Pipes told Newsmax. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal “is a convert from Hinduism. I have no problem with his conversion. What I have a problem with is that he’s lying” when he says he was never a Muslim.

Newsmax asked whether Pipes is alleging outright that Obama has lied about having a Muslim upbringing.

Pipes’ response: “The evidence suggests to me that he is lying, yes.”

Pipes told Newsmax, “It would start with the fact that his father was a Muslim — granted, not a practicing Muslim, but in the Muslim world, if your father is a Muslim, you’re a Muslim. His father named him Hussein, which is a name only given to Muslim babies. He went with his stepfather to a mosque. They celebrated certain Muslim holidays at the mosque together. He had knowledge of the Koran. He had knowledge of Muslim prayers.

You put all this together, he was a Muslim.”

Pipes contends that a Nov. 12 post on Obama’s Web site headlined, "Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim," stated: "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." (Personal note: This man is no true Christian. Perhaps he is an apostate or merely a common "luke warm" Christian, but he is not a true Christian, I assure you of that fact.)

Today, that post bears the same headline, but does not include an assertion that Obama “never prayed in a mosque” and “has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim.”

The page now bears a quote Obama made during the Jan. 15 debate on MSNBC: “In the Internet age, there are going to be lies that are spread all over the place. I have been victimized by these lies.

Fortunately, the American people are, I think, smarter than folks give them credit for.” (Personal note: He is correct to a limited degree! Some of us see right through him as one having a spirit of deception)

The current post, which includes links intended to debunk any Muslim connection, is headlined “Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian”.
Several media outlets, including the Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times, have reported on Obama’s schooling in Indonesia, where he lived from 1967 to 1971, which included Muslim religious studies.

It is known, for example, that Obama’s designation as a Muslim while attending a Catholic school may have simply reflected the fact that his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was Muslim.

Still, Obama was grouped with Muslim students at the school and engaged in weekly religious studies, including studying the Koran and learning Muslim prayers. In 1970, Obama’s family moved and he was enrolled in a public school where children such as Obama who were identified as Muslim spent two hours a week studying Islam. [Editor's Note: Read the Los Angeles Times report on Obama's Muslim upbringing.

A March 2007 Chicago Tribune article by Kim Barker, which stated several accounts had “distorted the reality” of Obama’s years in Indonesia, reported that he did irregularly attend Muslim prayer services at the local mosque.

Obama’s third-grade teacher at the Catholic school, Fermina Katarina Sinaga, told Barker that Obama accompanied his stepfather to pray at the mosque, doing so “rarely.”

Pipes said Barker’s story bolsters his position that Obama was raised as a Muslim while he lived in Indonesia.

His accounts of Obama’s upbringing have received a “very severe reaction from the left” and threats from some Muslims, he said.

“The Islamists murmur and threaten,” Pipes said, declining to specify the threats he has received. Pipes sees a whopping double standard in how the mainstream media has reported on Obama’s past.

“It’s been quite fascinating to watch the careful picking over of Sarah Palin’s record, down to her library policies as mayor of Wasilla, and her possible false pregnancies, and so forth, an analysis that involved excruciating details in her case.”

He contrasts that to the “the general pass” the media has given Obama, whether over his career in the Illinois Senate, the Annenberg library papers, or his upbringing in Jakarta. Pipes said his reports have “simply been dismissed as untrue without any facts to counter it.”

The McCain campaign “has been very cautious about looking into Barack Obama at all,” said Pipes, adding that the GOP has demonstrated a general reluctance to raise questions about Obama’s past.

Pipes has posted four articles on his Web site, “DanielPipes.org”, defending his view that Obama was a Muslim. The articles include the assertion that “for some years (Obama) had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian stepfather.”

As a measure of the interest in Obama’s background, Pipes’ articles have attracted close to half a million hits.

One point of contention they raise: When someone is born of a Muslim father, do Muslims automatically consider him a Muslim?

A group of more than 50 scholars recently posted a statement on tabsir.net, a Web site dedicated to fostering an understanding of Islam, that seeks to refute that assertion. The statement maintains that distortions about Obama’s past are “part of an Islamophobic hate campaign that fuels prejudice against Americans who practice their Islamic faith and Muslims worldwide.”

Their statement says, “The vast majority of Muslims accept the Qur’anic message that there is no compulsion in Islam. Since Senator Obama was not raised as a Muslim, he cannot be held accountable for the religious status of his father.”

That assertion sounds logical to Western ears, but Pipes’ rejects it flatly.

“There is no doubt: It is a fact in Islam that the religion passes on through the father,” he told Newsmax. “And yet it’s denied as a falsehood by people who know better. They know better. It’s Islam 101.”

Supporting Pipes on that point is Shireen K. Burki, an adjunct professor of political science at the University of Mary Washington. Burki, who spent her childhood studying Islam at a school in Islamabad, Pakistan, has first-hand experience as the daughter of a Muslim father and a Christian mother.

“According to Islamic jurisprudence,” she wrote in a May article in the Christian Science Monitor, “children of a Muslim father — even an apparently nonpracticing one, such as Obama’s father, and irrespective of the mother’s faith — are automatically Muslims. Most Muslims around the world agree: A child of a Muslim father is a Muslim. Period.”

Given that Obama’s profession of Christianity is essentially uncontested, one might wonder whether it really matters whether Obama once was Muslim.

To many of the world’s approximately 1.4 billion Muslims, it apparently would matter a great deal. Experts on Islam generally agree that someone who is born a Muslim (in effect, someone who had a Muslim father), who later renounces Islam, is considered an apostate.

Burki writes, “Should Obama become U.S. commander in chief, there is a strong likelihood that al-Qaida’s media arm, As-Sahab, will exploit his background to argue that an apostate is leading the global war on terror (read: attacks against fellow Muslims). This perception would be leveraged to galvanize sympathizers into action.”

She suggests the apostate tag would be a powerful propaganda weapon that al-Qaida could wield to marginalize America’s Middle East allies, causing “enormous difficulties” in the war against terror.

Posted by: Jordan | October 10, 2008 3:26 AM | Report abuse

Sen. Obama is now spending millions just to get back on TV and give another speech of "Hope" and "Prosperity for the Middle Class". What a bunch of hoopla and I for one will not vote for someone with the name Barrack Hussien Obama because to me that is a disgrace to our country. He may be a great speaker of words, but to lead this country we need more then just words and he can't provide that. McCain/Palin all the way and it sounds more American then a someone with a middle name Hussien.

Posted by: James | October 10, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

James,
You're a freakin idiot and obviously have never traveled outside your small, closed-up mind....I mean, town.... to realize that one's middle name has NOTHING TO DO with running a country!!

Oh, by the way - McCain's middle name is Sissy...I mean Sidney..

What would you do if it was Adolf (or do you not get that)!?

Posted by: Susan | October 10, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey Jordan, are you some Karl Rove avatar, or what? Did you know that McCain was born in Panama?, so under your pretzel brained logic he has to be associated with Marxist rebels. You RoboGOPs are channeling McCarthyism. Have you no decency?

Posted by: SaladSD | October 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Susan, I am just a proud American who believes in our nations best interest. It's nice to see that Obama is spending a million dollars for more TV primetime so that he can pursue his own dream and not what is right for America. He is egotistic and you will see socialism rise if he becomes our leader. God help us all if that happens.

Posted by: james | October 10, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

At least McCain ADMITTED "I crashed a plane..." See Dobbs making excused, however, for Barack HUSSEIN Obama now: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/10/did_obama_lie_about_ayers.html

Posted by: JakeD | October 10, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Susan,

I hope Mr. Hussein wins... you deserve him...!!

Posted by: njdude | October 10, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

McCain has quite a colorful past excluding the Charles Humphrey Keating Jr. affair.

From his treatment of his wife to, by his own admission, his errant ways before, during and immediately after his capture.

Here is a 'hero' who were psychoanalysts really come out and say it, is still trying to measure up to his more illustrious immediate ancestors, both admirals. McCain is still trying to gain favor with his dad and grand dad by becoming president, and what better way than to become the Commander In Chief, a rank he could not hope to attain in his wildest nightmares had he remained in the Navy!

How do you expect his crash record to be available, a guy whose dad was an Navy admiral? The Navy looks after its own!

This explains his bottled up anger. He cannot believe a guy 'that one' who has never even served as a scout can become the next CIC. Thus the negativity in his campaign.

I want the Obama campaign to go after McCain will all they got! It's time his dirty linen is aired in public.

PS. Just heard him on CNN urging his supporters to respect Obama! That is quite a radical shift! McCain could be a maverick after all!

Posted by: Joepublic | October 10, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the comments from Jordan:

After world war 2 this country proudly stood as a bastion of fairness and freedom in the world and against communism which is perhaps the most extreme me form of socialism.

Remember the cold war the Russians were the bad guys.
Their people were impoverished, could not afford to eat well, didn't have good jobs, and well all held in line by the notorious KGB who could appear in the depths of the night and whisked you away never to be seen again. Interned without trial. The party members on the other hand were all corrupt well heeled and had it real good.

Now lets see where we are, the economy imploding, people cant afford gas,food and their mortgage, and we have un constitutional methods of interment without trial just by declaring someone a terrorist. In the meantime the party members many are corrupt well heeled and have it real good.

Would you agree we are becoming something we stood against. Whats more we have been led here by the republican party, into pseudo socialism not the dems

Posted by: Alex P | October 10, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Rick | October 10, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

You might find this most interesting...

The media is not telling the truth. Last week when the world's largest insurer, AIG, was bailed out, media such as The Wall Street Journal reported that, "the U.S. government seized control of American International Group Inc. -- one of the world's biggest insurers -- in an $85 billion deal" :

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122156561931242905.html.

No, the shares of AIG were transferred to the Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, NOT the U.S. Government. Here is the Securities and Exchange Commission filing showing this:

http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/5272/000095012308011147/y71385e8vk.htm

>> On September 16, 2008, American International Group, Inc. (“AIG”) issued a press release announcing it has entered into a revolving credit facility with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (“NY Reserve Bank”).

Under the terms of the revolving credit facility, AIG may borrow up to $85 billion from the NY Reserve Bank. AIG’s borrowings under the revolving credit facility bear interest, for each day, at a rate per annum equal to three-month Libor plus 8.50%. The revolving credit facility has a 24-month term and is secured by a pledge of all of the assets of AIG and its Material Subsidiaries. The revolving credit facility contains affirmative and negative covenants, including a covenant to pay down the facility with the proceeds of asset sales by AIG.

In connection with the revolving credit facility, AIG issued a warrant to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve (“Federal Reserve”) that permits the Federal Reserve, subject to shareholder approval, to obtain up to 79.9% of the outstanding common stock of AIG (after taking into account the exercise of the warrant). AIG anticipates calling a special meeting for such purpose as promptly as practicable.

A copy of the press release is attached as Exhibit 99.1 to this Current Report on Form 8-K and is incorporated by reference herein.

----->>>>

This was all designed to happen by the shareholders of the US Federal Reserve.

H E L L O

They re-wrote the U.S. bankruptcy laws about 2 years ago to make it much harder to declare bankruptcy. They allowed the predatory lending to happen. People who opposed this practice were " taken out" - like Eliot Spitzer, where in his article, " Predatory Lenders Partners in Crime", documents the Bush administration deliberately and willfully looking the other way (this is a must read!):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783.html

***** This article was published Feb 14th; the New York Times " outed" him on March 10th. The industry then re-packaged these high-risk mortgages and sold them as triple-A blue-chip investments. Competitors, with clients also demanding high-return products, sold the same toxic products. This forced some of their own firms into bankruptcy but, hey, NO PROBLEM; the government will bail them out! And we can now buy our competitors at fire-sale prices!

It's absolutely brilliant if I must say so myself! ;-)

Unfortunately, it is YOU & I (and our slimy middle class children) who will pay for it and suffer. IF YOU THINK 9/11 WAS TERRIOREST ATTACK... Think again, George W. , Cheney, and the rest have effectively performed the Worlds most expensive coup. IT IS THEY THAT ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS!!!! We have been SOLD OUT. Soon we (the USA) will default on the HUGE DEBT to China, Japan and others... they will PRINT more money... ultimately turning the "Dollar" into the peso. Things are gonna' get real expensive.

Next Stop: MARSHAL LAW. Lets Watch...

Posted by: Marshall Law? | October 11, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

MY GOVERNMENT IS MY WORST ENEMY. I'M GOING TO FIGHT THEM WITH ANY MEANS AT HAND.

This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.

THE QUOTE IS ACTUALLY FROM JOE VOGLER, the raging ANTI-AMERICAN who founded the ALASKA INDEPENDENCE PARTY, the very same SECESSIONIST PARTY that Palin's husband Todd belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier THIS year.

PALIN SAID TO THE A.I.P.: "Keep up the good work, and God bless you."

SARAH PALIN WANTS OUR FLAG TO HAVE 49 STARS? WTF is WRONG with you Republicans??? Are you just about winning at any cost? You gave us EIGHT YEARS of BUSH and you are back for MORE?

Todd Palin was a member the Alaskan Independence Party working for Alaska to secede from the United States. Todd Palin registered in 1995 until 2002 when he registered as "undeclared" while his wife ran for office. She sleeps with a man who is committed to the idea of destroying the United States.

Sarah Palin and 'first dudes' political alliance with a TERRORIST WHO WAS MURDERED IN 1993 DURING "A PLASTIC EXPLOSIVES SALE GONE BAD." Todd Palin joined the party two years later.

Let me repeat that: A PLASTICS EXPLOSIVE SALE GONE BAD.

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Joe Vogler said in 1991 in a taped interview.

Here is another amazing piece from this Salon article:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vogler wasn’t just a blowhard either. He put his secessionist ideas into action, working to build AIP membership to 20,000 - an impressive figure by Alaska standards - and to elect party member Walter Hickel as governor in 1990.

Vogler’s greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska’s freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue.

That’s right - Iran. The Islamic dictatorship. The taker of American hostages. The rogue nation that McCain and Palin have excoriated Obama for suggesting we diplomatically engage. That Iran.

AIP leaders allege that Vogler, who was murdered that year by a fellow secessionist, was taken out by powerful forces in the U.S. before he could reach his U.N. platform. "The United States government would have been deeply embarrassed," by Vogler’s U.N. speech, darkly suggests Clark. "And we can’t have that, can we?"

The Republican ticket is working hard this week to make Barack Obama’s tenuous connection to graying, ’60s revolutionary Bill Ayers a major campaign issue. But the Palins’ connection to anti-American extremism is much more central to their political biographies.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE THIS, THAT'S FINE. LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF. STOP SUPPORTING THIS EMPTY HEADED LUNATIC CHEERLEADER FROM ALASKA. DO IT FOR YOUR COUNTRY. THIS THREAT IS REAL.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/print.html

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. The so-called "liberal media" needs some encouragement.

Posted by: Domestic Terrorists? | October 11, 2008 3:51 AM | Report abuse

Political Potpourri

No place but America could an African American, An Ex-POW, A Hockey mom from Alaska, and a Senator who use to stutter cause such a stir.
A stir that has been a long-time coming. Political Campaigns of the last couple of decades have been well "Political". In other words boring. American people involvement hardly a blip on the radar.
This election year however; "pow", "bop" "holy bill of rights batman!" Every corner of the people market is involved.
Thanks to Saturday Night Live and Tina Fey, politics can be fun. Thanks to CNN politics remain serious in the Situation Room. Thanks to Hollywood politics can be a public service. (Aren't politicians suppose to perform a public service?)
However; you define CHANGE, just recognize that CHANGE is here.
hollywoodyed: http://hollywoodyed.com http://hollywoodyed.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Hollywoodyed | October 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

The fact is, he was not a very good pilot. If each pilot we have loses 5 planes, we wouldn't have an air force. Hmmmm. Now that I think of it, McCain's a "loser" (silently spoken "of planes"). I think I will just call him "Loser" for short.

Posted by: Jill | October 13, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

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