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Feedback, And Pushback, On eBay's Feedback Changes

This morning's column started in early February when I wrote a quick blog post about some policy changes afoot at eBay.

Given the inside-baseball nature of the topic, I figured the post would get at most 20 comments. After the first 300 showed up, I began to rethink the story's significance.

It's true that an outraged minority can make a disproportionate amount of noise on the Web, but some long talks with a couple of high-volume eBay sellers convinced me that there was something here. Research done by eBay analysts--see, for instance, the AuctionBytes poll that I mentioned in the column--backed that up.

Plus, the quasi-political dimensions of eBay's situation intrigued the history student and policy wonk in me. (See, all those classes I took at Georgetown have not gone to waste in my current line of work!) As I mentioned in today's podcast (listen/subscribe/iTunes), how online communities cope with growth--or fail to do so--fascinates me.

In this case, it seems that eBay is opting against the idea of "crowdsourcing" by taking away one of its sellers' primary enforcement mechanisms, negative feedback, and reserving that power to itself. That's a lot to ask, especially when large amounts of money are at stake. And I think eBay still has some work to do before many of its sellers will buy into that idea. Consider the e-mail one reader sent in early this morning:

The problem is that eBay is not going to police the buyers, which any idiot can tell by looking at the other rules they are putting into effect. They are using Paypal to make it easy for any buyer - bogus name and address and all - to get their $ back - no reason, just because.

If you're an eBay seller, do you trust this company to police the marketplace in place of you? Would you accept such a "we'll take things from here" proposition from the management of any online community?

By Rob Pegoraro  |  April 10, 2008; 10:55 AM ET
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Online buyer scam artists are a dime a dozen, and Ebay is taking away the tools that sellers need to have to know if a buyer is trouble. That's the short of it.

I know an online merchant who is a one-man shop and he routinely gets emails and posts on his forum from people demanding to know where their purchases are, even though he has no record of those people buying.

Posted by: 23112 | April 10, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I only buy on ebay bit I think it's unfair to sellers to remove their tool..negative feedback. Back in the day, buyer feedback was posted as soon as the seller received payment. Now sellers seem to want to wait until buyers post their feedback to reciprocate. I asked a seller about it and she said there were too many buyers would post negative feedback and then it was too late for the seller to respond. The more recent practice of allowing a seller to respond to negative feedback was, I thought, an acceptable middle ground.

Posted by: Tina in Falls Church | April 10, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Ebay has no solid history of resolving issues when brought to their attention, be it serious abuse of a bidder buying 80 laptops in three days (using a hacked ID) to unjust negative feedback on either side of a transaction.

A mere promise they will take action if negative feedback is unjust (how can they judge opinions without all the facts?) from a buyer to a seller is well, a pipe dream.

There is no trust in ebay that they will indeed offer balance to the imbalance in the feedback process they themselves created, intentionally, all as a ploy to bribe buyers back to the site.

Buyers left because of being ripped off, bad sellers remain, ebay is skirting their role in removing bad members, be they sellers or buyers.

Layer upon layer of bad policy has not increased the satisfaction of the "buyer experience" that ebay is so anxious to improve.

Posted by: Nancy | April 10, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

ebay has no trust anymore. No one believes they will do what they say they'll do. Just as in all their paypal policies they have "may" liberally strewn about. ebay "may" do something about bad buyers.....ummmm ok even I see how silly that reads.

ebay does nothing to protect any users on their site. Too bad ebay didnt put some of their efforts into responding to what has to have been hundreds of thousands of reports over the last 10 years by loyal users. Those same users are now slapped with this garbage.

Posted by: CEP | April 10, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Ebay has proven again and again that they do not follow-through on their promises to help sellers with bad buyers.

Do I trust them now? NO WAY. With all the other policies they are putting in place to enhance the buyer experience, their taking away the power of feedback from the seller leaves the seller vulnerable to so many possibilities which would ultimately put them out of business.

I wouldn't know where to begin with listing all the scenarios that can happen, but I have seen how it has affected sellers already and know it won't get any better when the last of the 'tools' that a seller can use for protection is taken away.

We are not just losing the ability to leave feedback, we are losing the ability to block buyers with poor performance (based upon their feedback - which will be worthless come May). We won't be able to cancel a bid that portends to be too risky because we will not see the risk. We will be subjected to threats from the buyers if we don't give them discounts or additional free goods or services and will have no recourse. There is more, but isn't this enough?

Ebay says they will take care of us, but their track record shows they won't. By the time they find out they can't, the damage will be done. That is one horse that you can't put back in the barn once the door is left open.

Posted by: Merlin | April 10, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line to all the changes at ebay is MONEY.

By removing a seller's ability to leave negative feedback, they will not encourage honest buyers as much as they will aid and abet the scam artists out there. How will another seller know that a buyer is a non-paying bidder or runs other scams without an alert system?

Ebay makes money on listing fees and selling fees. If a buyer does not pay and the seller does not follow through with a non-paying bidder complaint, ebay gets to keep those selling fees. But if a buyer can now give sellers negatives for any reason and sellers cannot give them negatives even for non-performance, many sellers will not risk filing a non-paying buyer complaint. This is especially true since ebay has instituted the "star" system to rate sellers. If the stars get low enough, sellers can lose a lot more than the selling fees. The bottom line is more money for ebay on the listing and selling fees for things not really sold.

In addition to the windfall in fees, ebay is forcing PayPal onto many sellers. (It is now required for sellers in Australia, is the US next?) Since ebay owns PayPal, this is nothing more than another way to collect fees from sellers.

Buyers who bid and pay for items from sellers who are reliable never had to worry much about getting negatives. The hype from ebay that buyers were "upset" about getting a negative is just that--hype.

Ebay has had enough time to address fraud over the years without this mechanism. The fact that they failed to act means they gained something from it and you can bet that something was the cash register ringing.

Should sellers trust them now? The number who have left the site, curtailed listings and closed stores should tell you the answer.

Posted by: Kathy | April 10, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

No, sellers DO NOT trust eBay, and here are two reasons why. Buyers are able to purchase a high dollar item, tell you they are 100% satisfied with it, then hit you up with a charge back through their credit card company claiming the item is Significantly Not As Described (SNAD). Or, they simply go through PayPal with the same complaint, and seeing how SNAD complaints ARE NOT covered under the Seller Protection Policy, the buyer receives their money back. This has happened to me when a buyer wanted to return an expensive Halloween costume AFTER she wore it to a party. I refused to accept a return, so she filed an unwarranted SNAD charge back complaint and RECEIVED HER MONEY BACK AND GOT TO KEEP THE ITEM! The second reason is that buyers will use negative feedback to extort either money or items from sellers. This past Christmas I sold a tree to a buyer that found the exact same item for a cheaper price after paying for mine. She made up a bogus claim that the tree was defective to get her money back. I agreed to refund her as soon as she sent the tree back to me. She absolutely refused to send the item back and expected me to refund on her word alone. The buyer let me know she was very unhappy and started using threats of telling others about her "negative" buying experience. Fearing an undeserved negative feedback, I agreed to refund her the profit I made on the tree AND LET HER KEEP THE TREE! The deal was that this would deem the transaction "satisfactory". Low and behold, 19 days later I receive a hateful negative feedback from her filled with nothing but lies. I even sent eBay the emails where the buyer said she was pleased with the transaction after receiving the partial refund, in which we agreed to a satisfactory transaction. Ebay didn't care, they said they would not / could not remove the negative. SELLERS WILL NEVER TRUST EBAY AS LONG AS THIS CONTINUES TO HAPPEN!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 10, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

I haven't used ebay in years but when I did use it, I know the feedback portion was the most important part of the process (both as a buyer and a seller). This is a very bad move on ebay's part and needs to be corrected!

Posted by: Kevin | April 10, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

If Ebay had ever fostered any sort of trust in it's community, this wouldn't even be an issue. But the fact of the matter is, as Ebay has grown, so has the mistrust of it's primary customers, the sellers.

Successful sellers on ebay are successful in spite of ebay, not because of it. We can all but guarantee that if there is a problem, we will be left high and dry. Ebay has a long track record of never following through with it's seller "protections". Instead they choose to side with the buyers almost without fail. When we have an issue, and we email them about it, we usually end up with a canned response that has nothing to do with the question that was asked. Ebay and their reps have always seemed to be against sellers, and we really have no answer as to why. They feel for some reason that the buyers are their customers, and the sellers are nothing more than a means to an end.

So how can we trust ebay to keep our houses in order when they have been activly waging a campaign against us sellers? The have decided that because they are the landlords of their "venue", they can decide how we run our business. I liken it to the idea of a mall building owner walking into TJ Max and telling them how they will run their business from pricing all the way down to packaging and display. It's asinine.

Ebay has gone from a friendly community of buyers and sellers building business relationships and having fun doing it to a place where mistrust, anger, dishonesty, and scamming is a normal day. And the finger of blame points directly at Ebay. So no, we wouldn't trust ebay to mow our lawns, much less police our marketplace. Trust is something that is earned, and ebay has lost all the trust they earned long ago.

Posted by: James from Chicago | April 10, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Do I trust eBaY to police the marketplace and weed out fraudulent buyers? Are you kidding? If you had any experience with how absolutely worthless eBaY's Customer Service and Trust and Safety departments are, you'd know the answer to that one. This is a company that makes cell phone and cable providers' customer service departments look like 5 star winners.

You have a problem or need to report a fraud? You first endure 4 rounds of getting boilerplate back generated by some computer program that read your complaint and totally misunderstood it, dispensing bogus advice having nothing to do with the problem. Then, if you get to a human, good chance that person can't help you do anything, or also gives bad advice. It is a rare case where a fraud gets taken down, usually after Paypal has the potential to lose money in the deal. And in that case, Paypal usually has the facility to pass that loss directly to the seller anyway.

Then, eBay sweeps the fraud under the rug, and breezily reports only 0.01 percent fraudulent transactions on its system...

This is turning into the most corrupt and misguided company of the internet commerce age. Shame, they use to have such a great regulation.

Posted by: Davey | April 10, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

In a way, this is good news. Ebay's success prevented other auction websites from being able to take root. After all, who would give up the exposure of Ebay for some lesser known auction site?

Given Ebay's recent changes and that it has really become too big for its own good, I predict that we will see segmentation in the industry, giving rise to plenty of niche auction websites that can and do offer the protections and satisfaction that Ebay doesn't/can't.

Posted by: M Street | April 10, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Ebay used to be a community based on trust. Simplistic, I know. The site had growing pains, but on the whole was policed by both buyers and sellers through their ability to leave feedback. There was trust in the community; not so for the company. The company's lack of communication skills, continuous programming problems, high fees, stealth policy implementation, non-existent customer service and, more recently, anti-seller campaign speaks volumes. While management might be trying to reinvent the site, it's doing so in a way that is divisive and, in the end, will bring about its demise.

Posted by: BAC | April 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

This seller has NO trust in ebay. Come May, its going to be a blood-bath.

Posted by: Jo-Jo | April 10, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

No. eBay can not be trusted to police for sellers. eBays track record of policing their own venue has landed them in court by Tiffany's, Hermes, L'Oreal and others.

eBay's copyright defense was first that it did not have the responsibility since it is a venue and second that it does not have the resources to constantly police their venue for copyright violations.

Fraud has run rampant on eBay for 10 years. If multi-million multi-national companies can not be protected from copyright infringement, what chance does a 30K a year seller have for reputation protection? The short answer: little to none.

Posted by: Rhonda | April 10, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

This is a perfect example of why ebay's cookie cutter policies won't work. I am a power seller on ebay and I am a buyer. As a power seller I have 100% positive feedback. My DSR ratings are 4.9, 4.9, 4.9 and 4.7 for shipping charges.

I received my one and only neutral rating from a buyer because "item was smaller than expected". Had she bothered to read the description which said "Mini" and "Tiny" and 1" inch by 1 1/2" by 1/2" inches, she would not have been disappointed. She bought by looking at a photograph and then punished me for her disappointment. She never contacted me to say she was unhappy, if she had, I would have taken it back and returned her money but, she didn't even give me the opportunity to make her happy she just left a neutral feedback. Not negative but a neutral. Now read on for the kick in the face!

Yesterday, ebay sent me this email "Since seller performance is a factor, I wanted to let you know that your recent lower than average buyer satisfaction ratings will negatively impact your ranking in Best Match". In other words, ebay won't put my items on the top of the list in a search because an illiterate bozo couldn't read. How is this fair? I get a dim wit that can't read and I lose my ranking for her shortcomings? If this isn't a hostile environment against sellers, what would you call it? If ebay would read what my buyers say in the feedback, ebay would realize they are lucky to have me. I communicate with my buyers through every step of the process. I pack extremely well. I ship extremely fast. I'm friendly. I work with my buyers if they have problems. I refund overpayments if shipping turns out to be less than ebay's broken calculator stated. I bend over backwards for my buyers. I treat them exactly as I want to be treated as a buyer. But ebay now thinks I am substandard because of one unfair, undeserved neutral, not even a negative feedback, but a neutral.

Did this email from ebay encourage me to work harder and try harder. Hell NO! It made me go open an account on Ruby Lane and it made realize, it's time to reduce my inventory in my store and start selling elsewhere. I did not earn or deserve the neutral and it certainly didn't turn me into a substandard seller that should lose my good placment. Ebay is all black and white and smoke and mirrors, there is no room for making an exception when it clearly isn't the fault of the seller.

How can anyone run a business with hositility and threats. Why would we sink any more money or time into a company that is this short sighted and won't take the time to read why the person was unahppy and if it really did warrant a neutral or negative. We don't all fit into ebay's new cookie cutter policies. Honestly, I think ebay wants to push us away and they are doing a great job at that. To bad they couldn't put this effort into more constructive things. Ebay's the one that was deceptive by announcing a fee reduction that was really a fee hike. My credibility beats ebay's credibilty hands down. Thank you for letting me post.
Substandard ebay seller with 100% postive feedback.

Posted by: Mill | April 10, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

"If you're an eBay seller, do you trust this company to police the marketplace in place of you?"

Do I trust a company that for years has had non-existant customer service..

that has numerous 'glitches' that somehow end up profitable for that company and damaging to their customer base (sellers)..

that uses listing 'sales', 'padded' listings and 'defunct' user ID's to pump up their stats for quarterly reports..

that ignores reports of hijacking, fraud, deception and theft..

that forces a large majority of their users to use their company payment method (PayPal) while banning other viable payment methods..

that doesn't require any evidence of proof of identity to use the site to buy items..

that has buried the real issues under 'spin' on numerous occasions (fee 'decrease', DRS ratings, billing issues, padded listings, etc.)

that has had YEARS to police the complaints that were reported to them numerous times and chose to ignore them instead..

I could go on and on.....

Do I trust this company to police the marketplace ?

No way.

Posted by: Mrs.R | April 10, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I remember 10 years ago when ebay was new and had just changed names from auctionweb. I would find an error somewhere -- send a mail to skippy(who was their engineer) and he would send me a personal response. I actually got to know him fairly well over about a three year period and they actually listened to you.

When ebay went public was the first major push in the wrong direction -- up until that point it was a good site overall. Once they went public then the bottom line trumped the site.

The whole paypal thing was the second major push in the wrong direction. Many people were taking money orders and checks for many years before paypal came along -- and when ebay bought paypal it was the beginning of the end.

Ebay became a paypal advertizing tool instead of a place to sell stuff.

Posted by: centkin | April 10, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

I was an eBay seller with 1500+ and 99.9% positive FB. I've stopped eBay selling, but building an online store on another site. There is ZERO trust on eBay now. If a buyer doesn't pay and I neg them they neg me. Now I can't even neg them; they can just neg me, and they didn't pay. I have retired my pretty 99.9+ id. eBay NEVER helped me with one damn thing and this is the final straw. I'll take my unsold inventory to the dump before I list on eBay again.

Posted by: goneawayfromeBay | April 10, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

And in answer to your question "Do you trust eBay to police the marketplace?"


Posted by: goneawayfromeBay | April 10, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Ebay don't police buyers now, so why would I believe they will in the future. I no longer feel safe as a seller or a buyer with the upcoming feedback changes. As it is now, I use feedback comments both given and left to determine the safety of my buying or selling. I also go by how feedback is stated by person giving it, and what is said. I will not be able to tell a good buyer from a bad buyer in the future, as they will all have positive feedback. And how will I be able to tell whether I'm getting ready to buy from a bad seller or not, as there are already buyers planning to give negative feedback to all sellers just because they can. NO, I do not feel eBay will step up and police bad buyers at all.

Posted by: vicki | April 10, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Trust eBay? Really? Not a chance!

eBay has forgotten their place in their business model. They don't sell anything. Without sellers, ebay has no income, yet they repeatedly make changes that cause sellers to seek out other venues. They have totally turned their back on the "community" they are so quick to brag about. eBay only care about one thing... profit.

Who can trust a company that hides millions of fake auctions on their site to pump up listing numbers to inflate their stock price? Who can trust a company that tries to spin a 66% fee increase as a fee reduction? Who can trust a company that has destroyed so many small seller's businesses in the last 3 months?

eBay's new management is engaged in a calculated plan to destroy the company through "disruptive thinking" and transforming it into something new and different. They were quoted at a recent conference as stating that "a year from now, eBay will be unrecognizable from what it is today.

Sales have tanked on eBay. Seems they forgot that all the sellers they angered were also buyers and most have left for greener pastures.

Sure, we trust eBay.

Posted by: Joe | April 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Ebay has a proven track record of failure to police anything on its site.
As a seller of digitally delivered antique patterns I was recently shut out of ebay - a powerseller with excellent feedback and nearly perfect DSRs and I'm the one they shut down? Yet the scam artists continue to thrive? Ebay drops the ball over and over. They are inconsistant, unrealiable, unrealistic and dishonest. They announce changes to the world before their own staff, which only makes them look even more idiotic. When they violate their own user agreement, they just slip in and reword it.

How can you trust a scammer to rid its site of scammers? I get 10 bogus emails a week from would be buyers - even when I report it, the scam emails continue to pour in, even from the same ebay ID and email address - so even when WE police the site they don't act on it.

Five years ago I was one of the cheerleaders, I am so disillusioned now, not even Merlin could bring back the magic.
The way they shut down digital sellers was just about the coldest thing I've ever seen in the corporate world. Some of those people invested thousands in equipment and software, they each paid ebay thousands (I know I have) perhaps hundreds of thousands over the years, some had been offering DD for 5 years or more - and this was their thanks for supporting ebay even after many had jumped ship?

Seriously, 6 days to clear out...... very cold. Like Scrooge kicking a homeless child - just one difference - Scrooge wasn't the one who turned him out and at least he saw the error of his ways. Ebay never will.

Feedback is just one more bad decision in a sea of bad management, and its that bad management which has created ebays current situation - NOT sellers who "might" leave a negative feedback for a lousy buyer.

Posted by: Lori in Nova Scotia | April 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

As a seller for 4 years with over 1300 positive feedback, here is what the sellers face after the changes (these are from personal experience):
The buyer who wants a refund but keeps your item and sends back his old broken one; the buyer who doesnt read descriptions or look at pictures and says, 10 days after receipt, I dont want it; the buyer who, after being notified that the package has been shipped, reverses the payment through paypal and states "unauthorized use"; the buyer who says, yes I received the item but I want a 50% refund and want to keep the item, or I will neg you. This is what ebay and paypal want us to deal with, with nothing to fight back with. In all cases, I was told Sorry, we cant help you. And we are supposed to TRUST EBAY? Ahhh, not so much.

Posted by: MsFish213 | April 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

One of my FAVORITE quotes is from the comedian Bill Cosby.

He was referring to an unruly child of his.
He said "I gave you LIFE and I can take IT away"

I just LOVE that quote!

Posted by: See You At The DNC | April 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

If Ebay were up to the task of policing buyers it would already be being done. The fact is that most buyers are great; however, there are bad buyers, who through malice, misunderstanding or fraud are able to negatively affect a sellers business. Take for instance the DSR star rating system put in place for buyer to be perfectly honest. Many sellers, including myself, who were shipping for free got rated a "3" on the system by buyers who thought since they didn't pay for shipping they should choose neither reasonable or unreasonable as the correct response. And although this negatively affects a sellers place in the newly designed foible called "Best Match" and reduces the ablility of the seller to earn the touted Final Value Fee Discounts, all of these misnderstood ratings are allowed to stand---as well as the ones given in unfairness or spite. If eBay cannot manage the system already in place, I absolutely do not trust them to handle the much bigger issue of who gets removed. After 8 years, 4300 100% positive feedback, and hundreds of repeat buyers, I have left eBay for good and moved on.

Posted by: Cindy Brown | April 10, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Do I trust eBay? About as far as I can throw my Ford mini-van. I've already decided to never list there again because of the feedback issue. I was close to stopping because eBay take too big of a bite in fees but the feedback issue is a deal breaker.

Posted by: Bill | April 10, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Just take a look at this to see how eBay and PayPal do nothing to protect the seller. See how Sellers are taking matters into their own hands.

Posted by: barginrod | April 10, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

The feedback changes are designed by eBay to drive down sellers' feedback and detailed seller ratings to the point where all will be forced to accept Paypal (eBay's wholly-owned money transfer service, which has lots of problems but is a big moneymaker for them.)

Paypal's new policy of holding funds (and collecting the interest) for 21 days at will or whim will be eBay's biggest profit center in future.

Small sellers will be forced to use Paypal and most will struggle along until they're hit by a scammer, at which point they will fold. EBay doesn't care; they're trying to re-make themselves in Amazon's image, and the huge sellers either take Paypal or credit cards.

A year from now there will be half as many sellers.

The real question is, how many buyers will there be? Antagonizing the small sellers is antagonizing a large portion of the buyer community.

Posted by: SK | April 10, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I am a on-again, off-again Ebay seller. It was never a business for me, but I picked up some nice pocket money being a middleman. Find goods at lower prices then reselling them on Ebay - usually computers between $500-$2000. These policy changes mean that I really can't do this anymore - if I a seller wants his money back, there seems little I can do and I could be out a lot of money. Ebay has never backed me up with problems, even though it's in my best interest to maintain a good seller rating.

Unfortunately, I think Ebay is bending to the whim of it's buyers, not realizing the real customers are the sellers.

Posted by: Alex | April 10, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

No, absolutely do not trust eBay. Have watched them lie about fee increases, pad their listings by hundreds of thousands to manipulate their stock price, turn the other way to avoid policing illegal shill bidding, allow scam buyers to ruin small sellers....they ONLY thing eBay cares about is their bottom line.

Posted by: Disgusted Seller Leaving | April 10, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

I depend on eBay for all my income. I have had over ten thousand sales on eBay (although my feedback total of just under 8,000 reflects the many who never left feedback).

I have never had a single negative, only two neutrals (one of with was withdrawned because the customer MEANT to leave a positive)so my record is still at 100%. My DSR's are all 4.9's with one 5.0.

I cannot reopen my business under the threat of losing my ability to sell with buyers who are openly coming to the discussion boards on eBay's site, and gloatly about how they cannot wait for May to come so that they can leave negatives with no fears of repercussion.

I may never reopen on eBay and may have to find other venues and use my financial resources to survive until then.

Good sellers like myself, have never abused the feedback system. I have never left a negative for a customer in 9 years of selling on eBay.

eBay is encouraging the leaving of negative feedback by rewarding customers who have left negatives, neutrals, and filed complaints with paypal, with money. Yes, coupons for anywhere from $10.00 to $2,000.00 against their next purchase. With such rewards available, no fears of negative feedback even if they don't pay, and encouragements to file complaints, is it no wonder that sellers are afraid to continue doing business with them.

My heart breaks for my business and that of many others. I had a full sense of belonging to a great community and being part of a great company until now.

I fear that eBay is never going to be the same, the trust is gone for good.

Posted by: keepingmysecrets | April 10, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Ebay pits Buyers against Sellers and vice versa. Their strategy is to divide and conquer. This is from a post on an ebay forum thread. It's paraphrased here, but it sums things up I think.

1. It's not about whether buyers are better than sellers or either one more important than the other.

2. It's about policies that are not being thought out well and don't work in the long run.

3. For ebay to work it needs BOTH sellers and buyers. If there is nothing to sell, or no one to sell it, then logic should progress to the next thought that there would be no buyers to buy it. If there are buyers to buy it and no one to sell it to them............

4. See, ebay only works when both are involved and when both are appreciated. It takes two.....

5. It's fruitless and pointless to try and prove which is more important to the system.

6. Fostering an atmosphere of distrust, dishonesty and disagreement between buyers and sellers is what ebay is doing with all the changes and policies.

7. Ebay cares about lining pockets.

8. They do not care about buyers. They do not care about sellers. They care about the bottom line and how much of it they will get. All their policies are designed towards that end.

9. Propaganda makes you think they care. It is designed to make you think that.

10. Ebay is a VENUE for SELLERS to sell their goods. Therefore, SELLERS are the CUSTOMERS of ebay. BUYERS are the CUSTOMERS of the SELLERS.

11. Ebay has forgotten #10.

I don't trust ebay to fairly police anything. They are not fair. They lie. I don't trust liars. Again, they are a venue. Apparently they don't want to be a venue any more. They want to be an internet mall where you can buy everything new. No more "worldwide garage sale".

Posted by: ByeByeEbay | April 10, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I am a homeschooling mom who sells & purchases many of my school supplies on ebay. I also use the small amount of extra profit to fund extracurricular activities for my children. It is blatantly obvious since the many fee changes that Ebay has already implemented since mid-February, along with the feedback/payment changes to come, that ebay has no intention of keeping small sellers such as myself.

The feedback for sellers is not just positive or negative, but includes a report card of sorts that measures 4 different categories of satisfaction. One of these catgegories is for reasonable shipping charges. Although I only charge a $1.00 handling fee above the actual postage (to cover shipping supplies), people give low scores for shipping charges all the time. I think they are really unhappy with the rates of the postal service -- which I clearly have no control over.

Many seller's sales numbers have plummeted for March, and I don't think April is looking any better. If ebay doesn't have a variety of sellers to choose from, how are they going to satisfy the buyers?

ebay = FEEBAY

Posted by: redfox | April 10, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Sellers do not trust ebay. I doubt many buyers trust them either. The reputation ebay has for being a disreputable site full of bad sellers and bad buyers is true. Ebay allowed that to happen with 10 years of ignoring the problem and allowing it to grow until now perhaps the courts must step in and force them to own up to this problem. So...instead of rolling up their sleeves, they came out with a series of policies to put the blame squarely on sellers' shoulders. They'll come out with even more as the mood takes them. Underneath all this is the REAL danger - ebay is looking to go retail. They see Amazon's profits and drool. They fail to see Amazon's customer service or their policy of actually getting in between buyer and seller and straightening out a problem. I know this firsthand over an item I bought on Amazon and failed to recieve. First words from their customer service: don't worry, you will be reimbursed. If you hear ebay saying've died and are on your way to heaven!!!! So, now they feel they can just dive into retail...never mind the little things like refunds and customer service...ebay's too big to need those piddling little things.

Make no bones about it...with the advent of a new CEO who is schooled in retail we are now witnessing the destruction of ebay as we know it. There's a reason why Meg and Bill cashed in their chips got out while the getting is good...

Posted by: Patricia | April 10, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey Washington Post....believe it. This is a BIG problem and Ebay will suffer for it right along with the sellers it is chosing to (expletive) on right now! Sellers are buyers and they have a good long memory. If and when ebay goes retail they're going to have to get out and beat the bushes to find people who will actually buy from them. Bad reputations last a LONG time!

Posted by: Patricia | April 10, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I decided more than two years ago that eBay did not want me as a customer (i.e. seller) anymore. I moved on and now sell at

I am treated with respect both as a customer and a seller. Until more people branch out and get off eBay, eBay will continue to impact all seller's business plan. It's not easy to leave eBay but it can be done.

Posted by: Marge Leyden | April 10, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Ebay's decision to band feedback is ill conceived and foolish. The perversions of this have already come to fruition: now there are websites where you can simply leave ebay and not only leave negative feedback off site, but also get the buyer added to many Banned Buyer Lists. Sellers can set paramters by which these sites will automatically add these bad buyers to your BBL. For the first time, this actually centralizes the ability of sellers to trade information about this. Obviously, Ebay did not consider this permutation. They claim their main reason is that buyers were humiliated and did not come back to Ebay after receiving negative feedback. Imagine how they will feel if they are banned site wide by an angry seller!

Also, welcome the positive negative. Sellers will simply negate the worth of all feedback by leaving Green Negatives. Ebay has vowed to remove them, thus leading to those who will use code to evade this that all sellers will still understand. This creates more work for somebody to hunt down soft or negative positives all day.

I proposed allowing a seller to leave 3 negs a year. This would make sellers have to be very careful since they would get 3 a year, and only 3 a year. I'm sure I'll hear nothing but crickets from Ebay....

Posted by: LJ | April 10, 2008 6:32 PM | Report abuse

I tried to post this article on the eBay PowerSeller's board, it got REMOVED by eBay "Pinks" in a matter of a few minutes????

I am NOT sure why or what I did wrong but I got a "PINK" slap???

It looks like the PowerSeller board is ONLY for eBay praise???

Is that because eBay is letting the media look at the board???

Oh, well, I guess eBay will suspend me AGAIN from using the PowerSeller board.

Posted by: ebaysucks | April 10, 2008 6:38 PM | Report abuse

After being a silver level powerseller for 2 years now, with a 100% feedback with 5, 5, 5 and 4.9 DSRS, I have decided to leave like a lady. I sell pre-owned and brand new high end designer items and with the new changes with feedback and Paypal policies, this place is just getting a little too scary to sell. It will be a scammer and feedback extortion free for all and I just don't want to stick around and feel the seller experience. The site traffic is not there anymore, all the good buyers are gone and I've come to the conclusion that I'm just feeding the eBay fee machine with the search engines being messed up and my items basically have no exposure. Then to add insult to injury there are advertisements leading the buyer away from eBay to a major retailer like Macy's or Sephora website. I am so done here and have finally lost my motivation to sell and have come to the conclusion that instead of making some extra money, I am just wasting a lot of time.

Posted by: maggie | April 10, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Trust eBay? LOL

Here's a story for you. I get a customer in a foreign country who files a PayPal dispute claiming her package never arrived. Since seller's have zero protections for international sales, I went ahead and sent her a refund so I wouldn't lose a chargeback fee that I knew would be coming if I didn't refund. She comes back, buys again and files ANOTHER dispute. I see brand-spanking new negatives in her feedback from other sellers who felt that they had been scammed. I block her ID from buying from me anymore.

Well, gee, since all you can do is block an ID and not an actual PERSON, you can guess what happens next. She makes a new ID and comes back into my store and orders again. Over and over again, for over a year I dealt with this person. She orders, I block, she comes back with a new ID. New names and addresses, but the PayPal payment always came from the same account. And every ID she used had recent negative feedbacks from sellers screaming scammer and crook.

I tried over and over again to get through to eBay to help me get rid of this woman. After two weeks of sending constant e-mails and receiving canned responses that had nothing to do with my problem, the human I finally got to talk to me told me there was NOTHING they could do.

The only way I was able to rid myself of her, was when she started using the eBay accounts of her family and friends to order from me. After I shot off some warning letters to the actual account holders, she disappeared.

How can eBay possibly say that they'll police the bad buyers? They already admitted to me personally that there's nothing they can do. I packed up all my goodies and have taken them elsewhere. eBay can make all the promises they want to. I'll never believe any of them, because I've seen them in action. Or "inaction" I should say.

Posted by: Goodbye to the Bay | April 10, 2008 6:57 PM | Report abuse

eBay has a problem they do not take care of their customers. The sellers are eBay's customers. Instead they want to take care of and protect my customers. My customers are the buyers. eBay should stay out of what happens between me and my customers. If I have honest buyers and I treat them right my business will grow. The dishonest ones I do not want back anyway. The honest buyers will always shop eBay. This new feedback system is making the dishonest buyers work easy for them. These are the only people who will be helped by this new system. These are the people who eBay will bring back.
I have found an auction site . This place is doing it right. They do not get involved between the seller and the buyer. If eBay's sellers would all go over to this place it would grow to be a great competitor for eBay. With sellers spreading out all over the place it will not hurt eBay like it would if they all went to one place. Check out this place and the rules and you will find it to be the place for sellers. They do not charge fees for every little thing. I believe this place is going to hurt eBay so come join the crowd at

Posted by: Deborah | April 10, 2008 7:02 PM | Report abuse

I've been a seller for 4 years and have been a powerseller since the first month I could qualify for it, my 4th month selling.

The short form answer to both your questions - no way in hell.

Posted by: unknown | April 10, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

eBay is making it extremely easy for the low percentage of buyers who are scam artists to flourish. It is no longer worth my while to sell items on eBay. If sellers leave, buyers are sure to follow. Buyers will no longer be able to find the eclectic mix of old and new items that made eBay its fortune. What a shame.

Posted by: Former Powerseller | April 10, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Could someone provide a list of reputable online auctions for us -- links would be great. Where are you sellers now selling? Please let us know. I have found only 2 from this post. Also if there is a specialty for these auctions, please let us know.
Here is what you have said so far:

Posted by: rjrjj | April 10, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

ebay is a scammers paradise. Reported violations are ignored. Scammers run rampant as the above link showed. ebay allows cheap counterfeit crap especially if the seller is in China.

ebay is history. It no longer has the respect it once had.

And what's really sad, they just don't care anymore.

Posted by: former ebayer | April 10, 2008 7:50 PM | Report abuse

This site has many alternatives with links.
Great site & forum

Posted by: evp | April 10, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

I fail to understand why I pay eBay thousands of dollars in fees each year, and they allow the BUYERS to manage the system. The BUYERS will now affect whether or not I can participate in eBay specials and/or get a Power Seller discount to offset their recent fee increase of 25%. I have no recourse for slow paying BUYERS, yet they hold all the power against me. Any expert in the field of evaluation can see that the Detailed Seller Rating tool is inconsistent rewards system for Power Sellers. If a Seller has a rating of less than 4.6% DSR, they are considered not a "good enough" Power Seller to get just a 5% discount. Yet, a rating of 4 is linked to terms like "quick shipping" "reasonable shipping costs" "accurate item description" "good communication". A rating of just 4's across the board are GOOD ratings, yet a BUYER doesn't realize by leaving a 4/5 stars, they are "hurting" Power Sellers and their businesses. eBay needs an expert in the field of evaluation working on their team, they obviously don't understand quantitative and qualitative analysis - yet they are trying to base their whole system on it! Sell your stock now, its all going downhill!

Posted by: Long Time eBayer | April 10, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Policing its' site for fraud you say ??? I think that question has been more than adequately addressed by the previous posters . However I must in all fairness give ebay a glowing 5 star rating in policing its' own Seller Central Discussion Board where several May 1 Boycott threads have been removed to the last page where very few will see them . In addition the main May 1 Boycott thread was locked by ebay so that nobody could post to it anymore ( MAY 1ST BOYCOTT THREAD-PLEASE PLEDGE YOUR SUPPORT HERE ) . Some of the other May 1 Boycott threads were started by people after ebay had shuffled and locked the main May 1 Boycott to the last page . They suffered the same fate in being relegated to the last page ( but not locked ) . Mr. Pegoraro please take a look at the ebay Seller Central Discussion Board : Community - Workshops/Discussion Forums - Seller Central . This will give you a clearer picture of what is involved here . All the best .

Posted by: EBAYRULES | April 10, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

At the end it lists all the boycott groups and alternative selling sites.

Posted by: Christine | April 10, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Trusting eBay to police its site is like "trusting" an alcoholic left all alone overnight in a wine cellar OR a burglar with the keys to the bank vault OR giving a car thief a job as a valet parker OR, OR, OR...

eBay has, time and again and again and again...proven itself UNWORTHY of any trust!

Posted by: Boycotting Former eBay PowerSeller/Store Owner | April 10, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Trust and eBay are no longer words that even belong in the same sentence. With the string of lies and deceptions, audaciously disguised as fee decreases, what sellers want, and meant only to protect bad buyers, eBay has destroyed what small thread of trust this power seller had left.

Their hidden agenda carefully manipulated so to appear they are concerned about customers, boils down to nothing more than an easy way for them to dispose of the "fleamarketer". The very sellers who put them on the map, who pays their bills and who made eBay a household name. Sellers, the ones who sold IT on eBay, and the ones eBay now wants to toss aside like yesterdays used paper plate.

Do I trust them to police the marketplace where I sell my goods? About as much as I'd trust Charles Manson to baby-sit my children.

Posted by: Karen M Power Seller | April 10, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Rob, are you kidding. I checked into the February post 2 weeks after it was posted and people were still commenting.

I was enraged years ago when eBay started killing buyers with their % increased on Final Value Fees. I slowed down then deceasing sales from about $50K per year to only household items now and then.

Since the latest round of increases I have not listed one item and have moved everything to Craigslist. You know what, the product I used to sell on eBay years ago now sells quite well on Craigslist. I'm happy again & I don't pay any fees.

Posted by: Carl B | April 10, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

"If you're an eBay seller, do you trust this company to police the marketplace in place of you?"

My honest answer is no.

Ebay is to busy padding it's listings, rewriting policies that benefit no one but themselves, and lying to both it's own members and the media to have time for such trivial things such as policing their own venue. Nor does it want it's members to police the site for them or they would not do things like hide bidders user names,and they would have real customer service etc.

Ebays motto appeared to be we are not responsible for anything. If it is a buyer that is unhappy then they blame it on the seller, if a seller is unhappy they blame it on the buyer. For goodness sake don't fix anything just create another policy to temporarily cover a problem up.

If they really wanted to know what is the matter with ebay they would need to take a hard look at ebay itself. Not its buyers and sellers but themselves as a company.

This is not something that ebay is willing to do.

Trust is earned and ebay has done nothing to earn mine. In fact they have done just the opposite to where I willingly take time out of each day to inform others of why not to trust them.

Posted by: scootzs | April 10, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

I am so mad at Ebay and all these stupid, stupid changes...I could...I could just SPIT. Sure, that sounds stupid...but um...I can't express my TRUE rage here on a public message board.

No, I do not trust them AT ALL. They are complete fools.

These changes suck and will be the downfall of Ebay. Mark my words.

Posted by: Valerie | April 10, 2008 8:42 PM | Report abuse

No, no and no. I do not trust eBay. They hide everything. You can't see what DSR's a buyer leaves, you just have to trust that eBay is calculating them correctly. Yeah, right, since my fees are based on these DSR's, I trust eBay to manipulate them to eBay's favor, not mine.
Does eBay listen to a dispute fairly, NEVER, EVER, ever. No matter what documentation I show, and no matter what little a buyer shows, I am the one who is wrong. Always. All a buyer has to do is sneeze, and ebay says the seller gave the buyer the bug, no matter how fake the sneeze is.
I wish there were some way eBay's layers could be unfolded and examined by the light of the day and we could see just how much fraud they have committed.
Gone of the days when ebay was a good company.

Posted by: Julie | April 10, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Some of the sites the good sellers have moved to are Online Auctions (OLA), eCrater, etsy, iOffer. I am sure there are others. It seems like most went to Online Auctions. Maybe some others here can tell you sites they know about.

Posted by: Julie | April 10, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse


Did you know? :

BUYERS: will no longer be able to see who is bidding against them? By Ebay making the bidding anonymous, can't tell who that person is or what their background is.
All you see is something like J**L.
This promotes shill bidding (where the seller bids with another or several id's to jack up the end price of an item). With these id's hidden it will be impossible for you to research whom you are bidding against... Something to think about...

BUYERS: will have to pay more because Ebay is "suggesting" to sellers to offer free shipping. Well now, you wouldn't want to lose money on your items, so please understand the sellers don't want to either so they will have to incorporate that in the initial selling price. Interestingly enough, Ebay makes more money this way because of the hike in Final Value Fees they collect from the buyer.........think about that......

BUYERS: will see that the hard to find items will once again be scarce, as more sellers leave the Ebay site for different sites. Think about that.........

SELLERS: will no longer be able to give your buyers anything but positive feedback? If the buyer bounces a check... oh well. If the buyer sends you back an item, and they sent you something fake but have the return slip to prove they sent something back... oh well. You will have no recourse... It happens all of the time right now, but will become even more prevalent when the new rules kick in because you will not be able to state your case with feedback... Cyber criminals are well aware of the venues which they can feed off of... Think about that...

SELLERS: were told "Good News" the picture gallery picture will now be free, and the listing charge went down by $.05 on the lower selling items (higher discount for higher priced items), BUT the reserve price fee escalated from $1.00 to $2.00 and is not refundable if the item does not sell, and the Final Value Fee hiked as much as 66%. So the final value fee considerably raises the actual cost of selling for most sellers and the advertized decrease in fees was a smoke screen...

SELLERS: feedback scoring will only be based on the last 12 months.

SELLERS: Feedback scoring is based on a curve, so even if you have a 4.5 in shipping, that is viewed in a negative way by Ebay, but presented to the seller as positive. This curve is entered into whether or not your earnings from a sale will be held for 21 days. Which means... Ebay decided you have to ship your items with your own money first while they hold onto your money for you with no interest!!

Paypal's (owned by ebay) new amendment to their user agreement, dated March 14th, article #10.4, states that the hold on funds can be held LONGER THAN 21 DAYS. There is now NO LIMIT to how long sellers' funds can be held."


Ebay states they will beef up their customer service (which we all know is basically non-existant) . They state they will look at the situation if the seller reports it but.....we all know how that works.
Imagine how much efficiency there will be when thousands of complaints come in from sellers.......I'm sure they will get on it right away (sarcastically said) ...and in the meantime, your sales go down from the bad ratings and you lose the coveted discount that they offer the "good sellers".

How can Anyone want these changes?



1. Feedback Changes
A. Sellers will no longer be allowed to leave negative feedback
B. Feedback older than 12 months will no longer be applied towards your
feedback percentage.
C. Neutral Feedback will now be considered as negative to determine buyer
dissatisfaction rate and seller account restrictions

2. DSR'S (Detailed Seller Ratings)
A. Ebay allows buyers to think that a 4.0 (on a scale of 1-5) denotes good
business practices by the seller in regards to item as described, communication,
shipping time and shipping and handling charges while sellers are subjected to
B. DSR's are rated on a curve and due to this; even a rating of a 4.8 can be the median in a given rating category.
C. DSR'S will now be intertwined with "Best Match" search positioning
D. Ebay is unjustly red-flagging "good" sellers as well as "bad" sellers by stating
sellers with a 4.5 rating (On a scale of 1-5) now have a "low" rating, thereby
implying they are in the category of "bad sellers".
E. "Bad" Sellers will be kept because of their monetary value.

3. 21 Day Paypal Hold For Risky Sellers And Risky Categories
A. Sellers whose total feedback score is not more than 100 will have payments held
for up to 21 days.
B. Risky category sellers will be subjected to a 21 day hold, even well established
C. Sellers with 5% or greater negatives in a 30 day period will be subject to the 21
day hold regardless of the circumstances.

4. Unreasonable Fee Increases
A. Promoted to the Ebay community as decreases, only the insertion fees were
decreased. Insertion fees decreased by $.05 with the gallery picture given free
($.35 savings) yet FVF (final value fees) raised by as much as 66%
B. Reserve fees increased from $1.00 to $2.00 and will no longer be refunded if
the item does not sell.
C. Store FVF's (final value fees) increased to 12% above and beyond monthly and
listing fees.

5. Miscellaneous
A. The universal anonymous bidder policy promotes additional
unsafe buyer practices and has led to buyers losing trust in the system.
B. The majority of Power Sellers will not qualify for newly stated discounts
C The note "This item is not covered by buyer protection on Ebay," which is
placed in two areas of the listings of sellers who do not offer PayPal, causes
harm to the good sellers' reputations and intimidates buyers.
D. Ebay sellers are red-flagged on their listing page as having slow shipping
if their rating is 4.2 and below.
E. When sellers are red-flagged, Ebay also lists other sellers' items on said sellers'

Posted by: EBAY REFUGEE!! | April 10, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

By the way ebay.........booting ME from the forums was a BAD idea!

Posted by: EBAY REFUGEE!! | April 10, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

19,000 transactions and I do not trust Ebay to handle the upcoming feedback issue. Actually, I think it's going to be bloodly nuts. As of today, just try asking a question to anyone working at eBAY. Seven times out of ten, the answer will not be related to the question.

Posted by: Absolutely not | April 10, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Very few are thrilled with eBay's changes, but I for one am willing to see how it shakes out. The 2 and half months of whining and crying, like a jilted lover, have whipped a minority, yes a minority into a frenzy. As you saw here today.

Buyers do not trust eBay. That's the most important thing. eBay is trying to change that. Is this the end of the changes? Hardly. Are they completely reshaping eBay into a retail storefront that won't be recognizable to most old members, yes. Is it the only way to continue earnings growth a rate that can compete with Amazon (where buyers are not openly rated by sellers, and sellers are much, much more controlled by The Powers That Be, btw).

So many that have commented here and are raging on the boards are only thinking with their hearts. They've wound themselves up so tightly they can barely function anymore.

Time will tell if the choices eBay has made were the right ones for their stockholders. I do not see them changing course over the "noise" of even a few thousand disgruntled sellers.

Posted by: Guy | April 10, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

I have been a Seller and Buyer for over 6 years, with a 100% 'Positive' record, and I barely had any 'Trust' and 'Security' in them to start with. My own personal experiences with them taught me that. Their 'policing' in general left a lot to be desired in any 'crime'.

As one face of eBay 'reassures' us that they will 'police' for us, the 'other' face lays off customer service people, 'skews' the system to justify these ridiculous changes, and damages both our sales and our reputations with them, too.

I think that any 'judge' would throw this case out of court, on grounds of eBay's 'Entrapment' and 'Misuse of Authority'!.

Posted by: Balzenawe | April 10, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

A "few thousand digruntled sellers?" Well obviously "guy" or should I say steve577 or sg51, that obviously you are NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Ebay has pissed off most of Australia users along with the UK now! Oh but you never really were very good at numbers were you? I guess that WOULD add up to only a "few thousand" huh? We are talking about TENS OF THOUSANDS if not HUNDREDS of thousands!

There is a REASON why this blog is THE WASHINGTON POST'S blog! Because the NOISE that you are so afraid of is too loud to ignore!!

Ebay is yanking the boycotters on the seller central forums left and right, and now they have time to get the word out there instead of just in the forums! Thanks for that ebay!

Take your bogus ebay cheerleading somewhere where people trust feebay! That rules out the internet now! Sure looks like YOU are the minority now "GUY"!

Posted by: EBAY REFUGEE!! | April 10, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Sure, I trust eBay with my business as much as I trust that my insurance agent really cares when he sends me a birthday card each year!

All of the reasons for the distrust have been outlined before my post, so I'll just say that the New Ebay is a truly scary place for sellers. In a few months it will be a horror show.

(Ex-seller with 5000 feedback, 99.8% positive)

Posted by: Caroline in VA | April 10, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

ya know, I finally got tired of the "hugeness" of feebay and decided to seek out the smaller honest venues. I actually found one that is free to list for life for the first 5000 sellers that verify! EWAEY.COM! When I tried to contact customer service I got a response within 1/2 an hour from a real person! They are small but HONEST! Ebay lost sight of the "community" and got the greed bug. YOU LOSE EBAY! EWAEY.COM gets my business now!

Posted by: done with feebay | April 10, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

I understand the sellers grip but, When I sell I always have in the back of my mind that buyers are first in Ebays mind. This is the case here. And I wish this was started sooner. I purchased a product and tried to work with the seller since the product was DOA they wouldn't have it and they ended up giving me a negative feedback after I had already given them a good feedback. Sellers that use feedback as punishment to buyers are losers!!!! When I sell I give good Feedback as soon as I get money. I don't hold it in reserve as a weapon thats just plan stupid and EBAYS knows it YEAH EBAY. I have had to kiss many buyers tushes some sellers just aren't good at it.

Posted by: Buyer and Seller | April 10, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Well, it is time for Donahoe to put the gag order out to the "PINKS" and stop the links to The Washington Post.

Once eBay does this for the SECOND time the discussion boards will look like eBay is the Greatest Place On Earth to be selling.

After they booted posters out of their boards the first time and pulled all the negative sounding threads THEIR STOCK WENT UP.

Buy eBay stock now and wait for Donahoe to react to the newest rebellion.

Posted by: ebaysucksbigtime | April 10, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Trust eBay - Not for a moment. The non existent customer service is probably the BEST feature of their Trust & Safety dept.

I wait 45 minutes for "Live Help" only to be told that another department handles that problem - and they are closed.

This is the company that's going to "protect" me ?
I don't think so.

Posted by: Leslie | April 10, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Buyers do not trust eBay. That's the most important thing. eBay is trying to change that.

Buyers don't trust ebay because ebay does nothing of import to reduce fraud on their site. Knock offs, bad sellers, hijacked accounts and so forth.

Ebay lost it's shine with buyers over the years. Many articles are available on the web about buyers being taken in scams on ebay and the word of mouth on the street is to avoid ebay.

Throwing the good sellers to the curb because they don't enforce their own policies and do nothing to verify who becomes a member (buyers and sellers alike) allows the scammers to return from the NARU dead over and over and over again. It's a vicious cycle.

Members have been the policy police, free, since ebay began. Nothing has changed there. Worse, ebay does little when fraud is reported.

A buyer who bids and wins 80 laptop auctions in a few days with a hacked account and is reported by many (there was a thread running for days about it) and ebay did nothing until all those auctions ended. Sellers were now out the listing fees and final value fees until they went through the layered process of getting their final value fees returned.

Ebay created their own loss of buyers by not really addressing the fraud on the site all these many years.

Google ebay fraud:
4,000,000 links pop up.

Posted by: Nancy | April 10, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Yeah it looks like that is what is already happening on the forums! They have yanked DOZENS of the influential boycotters with NO explanation! They have put boycott threads to the back of the list or simply locked them! HIDE EVERYTHING EBAY! Just like you hid all the proof of your padded listing numbers and auctions! Heres proof of that!

Posted by: SCREW U EBAY | April 10, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

I am mostly a buyer. I do not trust ebay and will no longer buy there. I cannot see who I am bidding against (can we say shill bidding) and my hard earned 100% positive feedback will mean nothing after May 1. I will go to OLA.

Posted by: stormcloud | April 10, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm a long time power seller on eBay. Do I trust ebay to Police itself? No way.
I see this as a place to leave, not a place to stay. I feel like my long history and 100% feedback rating are meaningless. I feel like I'm invisible to ebay. I can't put my trust and my income in the hands of company that is treating me like the "bad guy". The post above, the one where the seller with 100% positive feedback was lowered in standing because of one undeserved neutral feedback proves ebay can't police itself. Why punish the seller for something they can't control. What's next, sellers will have to email every bidder and ask them "Did you read my description"? eBay has purposely hurt this sellers chances of having their auctions seen without policing why the neutral rating was left. I don't think this was fair. This seller got screwed and didn't do anything wrong. What makes you think they will police anything else? There is no future with a company that shows no loyalty, there is no trust. Ebay proves it over and over.

Posted by: Ida | April 10, 2008 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Screw you ebay and all your recent scams!

Thanks to that guy that posted the EWAEY.COM info! I just checked it out. I like it!

Posted by: ebay you suck | April 10, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

I was around from the beginning, since 1998 and have a solid track record with 99.9% positive feedback with 6,071 Feedback received. I sold extensively for years and had no problem until 2005.
Selling on eBay after 2005 became overwhelmingly hard and time consuming, mostly due to eBay's new software making selling much more complicated in many ways.
Plus I was just about breaking even after I paid my seller fees.
As a result, I haven't sold on eBay since 2005.
I became an avid buyer instead, spending my time building my inventory until I returned to selling again. Plus, as a buyer, I kept my user ID out there so I wouldn't disappear.
I always planned to go back to selling.

Before I stopped selling, I remember one incident with an Australian buyer.
E-mailing to customer service and dealing with an open dispute lasted several days. It left me going back and forth endless times to resolve the issue of this buyer not wanting to pay $100.00 for an item she won.
She thought it was too expensive after the auction ended. I had many bidders in this auction with bids close to this buyers. This woman fouled up my whole auction.
Also, I ended up paying for the selling and high final value fees.

I felt threatened by negative feedback because this woman was so unhappy to honor her bid. She insisted the item wasn't worth it, even though she bought another like it a few days before, for more than $100.00.
I wasn't protected by eBay, they just left the problem up to me and the buyer to work out on the dispute board. The dispute board was not a good way to deal with a bad buyer. Customer service is substandard. Responses are generic and robotic and do not answer a users questions or concerns.
As it turned out I ended up bending to the buyer after several days for fear of negative feedback and just to close the dispute and get the problem out of my business. I was exhausted trying to reason with the buyer and dealing with customer service.
If I felt threatened by a buyer then, I suppose if I sold now, with the new change in feedback, I wouldn't have a chance.
An impulsive buyer with unjustified anger will be more likely to press the red negative button with the soon to be biased feedback system.
Situations where the seller can be vulnerable will run anywhere from buyers remorse to the buyer misinterpreting the item description or to anything at all.
If emotions are involved, as they are in transactions, who knows what people will act like when they aren't happy and there is no control factor, at all, for sellers?

Aside from the above, my deepest feelings against eBay come from blotting out my seller ID when I bid.
When eBay imposed an anonymous ID for me, that was the straw that broke the came's back. It's intolerable to have my well earned user ID blotted out for any reason at all with an anonymous ID that looks like this: D***F.
When eBay implemented this change a way of connecting with others was taken away as well because users are blinded to each other.

Since I was with eBay since the beginning I have worked hard and invested time, money, creative energy and emotion for 10 years as a seller and buyer.
I worked to build my reputation, user ID name and eBay Store by being responsible as a buyer and seller.
A good seller has to be dedicated, hard working, spend many hours, days, weeks and years going through all the steps of an entire transaction, over and over again, to finally earn a positive feedback track record and a user ID that positively represents the user. Blotting out a user's ID is an extreme action and totally unnecessary. It censors us in the worst way and is a nightmare to come to terms with after years of input to make my ID into my good branding.

eBay suddenly, brutally and unilaterally decided to change policy on several things.
Personally, I have been damaged in so many ways by the imposed changes and I know there are so many other dedicated sellers that are fatally hurt (business wise) too.
eBay has violated all trust with the changes.
Plus they have taken away a way of life for thousands of us.

I just think it was foul play and immoral for eBay to attempt to accomplish it's new goals by implementing changes which leave little or no choice for smaller sellers. The changes trigger a predictable reaction of seller indignation, which will pave a one way path, leading sellers out the door.
Thus, eBay will rid itself of unwanted clutter (smaller sellers dealing in collectibles, garage sale items, etc.) and eventually redefine itself for it's own very selfish financial interests, with no regard to smaller sellers, at all.

But eBay says the changes were made to provide seller protection.
This is not true.
eBay says seller's asked for the changes.
This is not true.
eBay will say the seller's left eBay by their own choice.
This will not be true.
These changes only really serve to manipulate sellers to quit selling on eBay by making it impossible to accept and work with the changes dictated by eBay.

Right now I think it looks like what's really happening is an extermination of sorts, an attempt to kill the smaller, hobbyist seller's business on eBay, also making seller's expensive emotional, creative and financial investments into there own business on eBay, absolutely meaningless, valueless and wasted.

FYI Meg Whitman's first purchase on eBay was a Ty Beanie Baby~

Posted by: Karen D. | April 10, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

I have been buying and selling since '01, my feedback is close to 2,000 and 100% positive, my DSRs are 4.9, 4.9, 4.8 and 4.7. I am not a power or high volume seller so the changes will probably ruin me. I see it already, when they started Best Match and hidden bidder ID's my sales dropped. Most of the views and bids come in the final days.

I feel like the lamb being lead into the slaughter when I think about the no negative feedback for buyers coming in May. Will I get scammed? Will I get my arm twisted from unruly buyers threating me with a neg? I'm wondering if I should even bother to stick around to see how it works out.

As a buyer I detest the hidden bidders. I got shilled the day it started. I reported it, nothing was done. How can shilling be reported when nobody can see anything? Sure eBay says they have "safeguards" in place to prevent shilling. Their safeguards didn't pass my test, I signed on with a different ID and did a buy it now on one of my items. Same computer, same account info, just a different ID and no problem, no safeguard.

Do I trust eBay? Nope, not anymore. Not as a seller or buyer.

Posted by: Xbay | April 11, 2008 3:16 AM | Report abuse

And now for the next step.

EvilBay have decided to legislate to sellers in Australia regarding payment processors. From June 2008 all sellers must offer Paypal or cash ONLY. Buyers will only be able to use these payment types. They describe this as a test but EvilBay UK have already started implementing the same ruling.

Not only have they removed the right of the seller to leve honest feedback but now their greed is really shining through as they force Paypal down our throats.

Goodbye EvilBy, I think this is one nail too many in your coffin

Posted by: Bob | April 11, 2008 3:43 AM | Report abuse

EBay had to stop using their new search called thee "PLAYGROUND" because of thousands of complaints by both buyers and sellers. It is POSTED on the eBay "SEARCH" board if you want details.

EBay is still using "Best Match" as a default and it is killing seller's sales and is making BUYERS PO'ed.


Glenda, as usual, is correct. If you want to voice your opinion to the best match team you can do so here:

Or send an email directly to Julie:

EBay knows thousands of BUYERS and SELLERS have made nothing but NEGATIVE comments about the search BUT eBay is defaulting "Best Match" as EVERYONE'S search as of 3/3/2008.


I had nearly a 100% sales rate until 3/3/2008 when eBay made "Best Match" EVERYONE'S default search, now it is nearly a 0% sales rate.


Posted by: ebaysucksbigtime | April 11, 2008 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Sad to say but it has come down to the point that eBay is just not a company I trust anymore. With all the new changes I have simply decided to stop being a seller or a buyer there.

Posted by: Ann | April 11, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

As sellers we are cautiously watching these changes. We are not happy at all with them nor the fee increases which we believe a little to excessive. Time will only tell the outcome, but at this point any damage eBay has done they will not be able to reverse. If you view policy changes like making a first impression, then eBay has created a Pandora's box. You get only one chance to make a first impression

Posted by: JoAnn | April 11, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I am primarily a buyer on eBay, and I agree with the concerns of sellers. Feedback should go both ways.

I have little trust in eBay to police its auctions. I have reported shill bidding and seen no action.

I think that there is an opportunity for a competitor to establish a auction site that is more like the eBay of the past.

Posted by: Arlington | April 11, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I have no faith in ebay at all to police what it never policed before.

They have 'report' buttons on each auction listing. If a member finds a listing that is in violation of a policy, they can click report and email the offending listing # to the ebay trust and safety.

I have done this many many times. Not one listing has ever been pulled. You might think, intitially, that I was mistaken to think there were any real violations. But I've been a seller for 8 years. I do know what is allowed and what is not. I could have been wrong some of the time, but surely not all the time.

Singly, this loss of trust is the bell tolling ebay's demise.

Posted by: marymelanie | April 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

eBay is a business.
Those of us who have been there a long time regard it as a community, it is not. Those days are gone.

eBay has made a business decision and will reap the consequences. I am a businesswoman and I too have made a business decision.

As a low volume seller I am extremely vulnerable because I care about my feedback, unlike those who sell thousands a month and mainly care about the bottom line. Most buyers are wonderful, some have become friends but it only takes one bad one to drop you out of search. Why would a seller continue to pay listing fees for items that do not get visibility?

As a buyer, which many casual sellers are, I shall support my new venues. I have not made a purchase on eBay since February and that was for supplies for items I sell on my own website at, with two other ex-eBay sellers.,, eCrater and are my other venues. eBay has forced me to become a multi-channel seller and liberated me from paying close to 40% of my gross in fees. I should say thank you eBay!

My customers say 'thank you eBay' because they can buy the same items for less, my overhead is lower and I can price competitively. I am working to integrate Google Checkout which gives my customers more secure payment options at lower cost to me than using Paypal.

Here is my eBay profile, 731 counted feedback 100% positive, as a buyer feedback 370, actual feedback received 1831 (until very recently feedback from a repeat customer was not counted). This means my 361 'unique eBay user ID' customers bought an average of 4 items from me. Unhappy Customers do not come back repeatedly. I must be doing something right.

Time will tell.

Posted by: Henrietta | April 11, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

EBay said they would protect sellers and then they layed off 125 customer service reps. this year????

EBay is using "Best Match" to HIDE sellers that don't use PayPal, it is the ONLY way they can force PayPal on ALL sellers in the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SURE, eBay will do anything to get around the anti-trust laws.


"Best Match" can filter OUT anything or anyone. It can hide your listings so that NO ONE will ever see them.

Posted by: ebaystillsucks | April 11, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The feedback issue is actually relatively small in comparison to the other boneheaded mistakes they're making.

There is such a thing as buyers who rip off, con, and extort.

I can tell you emphatically that the negative impact of eBay management is already being felt system wide... if I owned stock (and I do not), I'd SELL SELL SELL.

Posted by: 10 yr Powerseller | April 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I think the best way to do it is to not display feedback until both buyer and seller have done so.

Posted by: EL | April 11, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Any company that makes this many drastic changes all at once is grasping at straws. Your watching history in the making folks. Their in bigger trouble than many think and it's not going to get any better.

Posted by: CEP | April 11, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

So, I still don't get it. Lots of ranting, but where are you people going to sell your merchandise? Where should I shop? You aren't getting any buyers if you don't tell us where to come looking at your stuff!

This is the only list I can compile, because I am not watching some stupid YouTube video:


Are there more? Please let us know in a rational way what the new auction sites are. Thanks.

Posted by: Hudsonville, MI | April 11, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

eBay cannot keep their software in working order let alone police the site. I'm a seller and for over a month now eBay has had issues with the listing "item specifics" section, not to mention "preview your item" before posting a listing. These should be relatively easy areas to fix. Complaint after complaint has not been productive. If a seller lists an item and does not fill in the "item specifics", eBay does it for them with TOTALLY unrelated information of the item. The wrong color, category, even the wrong item!!! This wrong information is confusing to buyers and a land mind for sellers as buyers can use the incorrect info to their advantage. I have over a 1000 100% positive feedback. I am holding my breath as I tread through May! But, I just may say goodbye to eBay. It's just too stressful.
Thanks for the article, Rob.

Posted by: Kathy | April 11, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I believe that aside from their business relations with their customers - meaning the sellers on ebay, there is another lurking issue here.

Ebay is a service company, providing a platform for us to sell. We use service companies for a variety of reasons; our cell phone, house phones, oil, gas and water companies, etc.

When we develop a relationship with these services that is intended to last a long time, there seems to be a loyalty that grows among their customers as well as an accompanying implied moral obligation to the customers.

I think that people could have swallowed a fee increase alone, after all service companies raise rates - you don't always see their customers running for the hills unless the competition is fierce, which in this case it isn't.

Ebay has shirked its moral responsibility to its long-time customers by barraging them with changes that Ebay fully planned and knew would cause many of them to lose a great deal of money and in many cases their entire livelihood. Ebay does not care. It is on a well-thought out path toward becoming a retail venue and its long-time sellers are in the way of that growth.

What bothers me most is that they didn't have the decency or honesty to come right out and tell us their plans so we could rearrange ours in a business-like fashion. Instead they try to put a spin on all these changes, trying to make it sound like they're good for everyone. Reminds me of my Mom when I'd have to take medicine - the difference being that if these changes are good for anyone it's Ebay - not the ebay sellers.

Posted by: Maggie - Pennsylvania Antiques | April 11, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

I have over 900 positive's and 2 negs and had been selling since 2001. Last year, like I usually do, I did not sell in the month of December. I have had an EBay store and closed that 2+ years ago due to the fee increases at that time and store items being taken out of the searches. Anyway in Jan. I listed 20 items for auction and 2 sold! I was really dismayed at the results. Then I started to ready the sellers boards and have not listed or bought anything since. There is too much going on with Ebay, I don't want to be at the mercy of scammers. My shipping DRS is 4.5 so I'm already at a disatvantge to start selling again. When I closed my store on Ebay, I did open an Ecrater store and I am happy with the results. It's free with no fees to pay! I won't be going back to Ebay. But I am keeping track of what is going on. Ebay has lost a seller and a buyer.

Posted by: cheri | April 11, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Well I am just a stay at home mom who sells every now and again. I buy alot though.
The feedback changes are crazy as well as the new paypal rules.
I am so scared to sell on Ebay now.

I am one of the so called "few" who will be subject to the 21 Day PayPal hold due to my Shipping and Handling DSR star. which is now a 4.4

How can Ebay expect me to ship a high dollar item before I have my payment?
Can you imagine me telling Target, Walmart or any other retail store, hey listen, I want you to send me that $500.00 electronic and after 21 days I will pay you. Crazy..

Posted by: Justme | April 11, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

This is the CRAP that I just got from eBay AFTER 9 YEARS OF BEING A POWER SELLER!!!

EBay is screwed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for your membership with eBay. Our monthly review indicates that your account may no longer meet one or more of the basic requirements for your current Silver PowerSeller status.

As a reminder, PowerSeller status rewards accounts meeting the following requirements:
Minimum average monthly sales or items for Silver level.
98% positive total feedback rating.
4.5 or higher in all four detailed seller ratings (DSRs). This requirement goes into effect in July 2008.
An account in good financial standing.
Compliance with all eBay listing and marketplace policies.
Adherence to eBay community values, including honesty, timeliness, and mutual respect.
See the complete list of requirements.

We encourage you to visit your PowerSeller portal often to review the requirements, check your current status, and get helpful tips and resources for continued success. To access your portal page, just click the PowerSeller icon next to your User ID or visit and click "Member Sign In."

Your portal page also has contact information for your PowerSeller support team. We're here to help you sell successfully and maintain your hard-earned standing as a Silver PowerSeller, so please let us know if you have any questions.


Your eBay PowerSeller Team

I can't sel if you are going to hide my items, YOU A-HOLE!!!!!

Posted by: ebayis insane | April 11, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

AS you can see from the above post, a 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 4.9 with a 99.9 feedback is NO longer good enough for the A-HOLE Donahoe.

This whole NEW eBay is a NUT house!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: ebayis insane | April 11, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Those are not the comments I submitted. I stated I was in favor of the new policies and that as a seller who always leaves feedback first it is not big deal.

I have over 8,000 feedbacks with a 99.9% rating and DRS of 4.8. As for paypal, the only hold the money for high risk items or if the seller does not have 100 transactions.

I can't wait for the bashers to leave, I really wish ebay would ban them from the chat rooms. Can you imagine posting deflamatory comments at your workplace or where you leave your office space about the owners.

I hope it was just a glitch with the comments and my original comment is located.

Posted by: justme | April 12, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Trust eBay? NO! I don't trust eBay. There have been way too many changes and NONE have had seller or buyer interests at the forefront (any front). eBay has been eBay's only concern.

I think we have just been fed one line after another. is where I moved. It's made listing fun again. It's really new, it's really small, but it's growing some every day.

Posted by: Bitsy | April 12, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Ebay should have left what worked alone. Trust has slipped with each and every change they've come up with. Ebay doesn't care and the scammers are becoming bolder and bolder.

Truthfully, Ebay is not protecting the good buyers or sellers - only the scammers. With hiding bidding id's, they have opened up a whole new area to shill bidding which hurts both buyers and scammers.

NO, I have no trust in Ebay anymore and it's sad. I used to love it. It will only take 1 or 2 buyers to leave a neg or file an unfair snad and I will no longer be able to sell because my items will receive no exposure and my paypal payments will be held for 21 days or longer. could have fixed it all if you had just policed the scammers and the fraud. But scammers and fraud make more money for you so you've left them alone.

I have slowly moved to other sites - and

http://neoloch is great. Small and friendly like Ebay used to be. Not all the bells and whistles of Ebay, but Ebay didn't start out with them either. They are growing and will have some growing pains along the way, but they do have a feeling of friendliness and trust.

Posted by: cj | April 12, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

It seems ebay is upping up the fees, providing lower customer service, favors its buyers over its customers, and also the number of high quality buyers has been decreasing.

So why would anyone continue doing business with ebay is beyond me. Sounds like a very raw deal.

Good business is when both parties benefit.

As a powerseller of over 4 years, I am seriously considering shutting down my store. I started my own dedicated dot com to sell my products 2 years ago and thank God I did.
I get more quality buyers there, and ever larger profits margins.
Plus I can run my business ON MY OWN TERMS.

ebay is not going to tell me whether or not I need to take Paypal. We have our own Policies, and measures in place to protect our business.
when you sell on ebay, you are not protected.

the buyer is protected

ebay wants its sellers to provide the lowest possible price , the best possible customer service to their customers, pay the highest fees, and get the least protection from ebay. HA HA HA

if you already sell on ebay and you want to leave, I can tell you it can be done. don't be afraid to take that first step to start your business.
ebay is not your business. ebay is just a selling venue. YOU are in control of your business.
good luck

Posted by: Anonymous. | April 12, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Ebay police the site? how can they when they are too busy robbing and scamming every one else
Ebay is dead........ What buyer in their right mind would bid with the hidden bidder ids. what seller in his right mind would pay to list items which will never be seen.......... Never mind the rest of the changes they have in mind. I buy elsewhere now

Posted by: ex ebay buyer | April 12, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

It's been said a Congressman knows he's done the right thing when the FOR and AGAINST mail runs about equal. I counted very few positive responses to Ebay's new changes. That should tell them something, but I doubt they're even listening.

I stopped bidding on anything more than $100 since they instituted anonymous bidding. Shill bidding drives up prices and that helps their bottom line so there's no incentive for them to change. There's no way to tell if they're cooking the books, like Enron, and are creating shill bidders electronically, exactly like Enron. Who would know except their systems programmers? Cut them in for a percent of the fraud, and they'll keep their mouths shut, just the way Enron employees did until the bitter end.

They won't be the first big company to go under because they abused their core users, and they won't be the last. No sane CEO could read the reams of complaints from their customers and plow forward regardless. Just like Dubya, they're hell bent on doing whatever they want, consequences be damned. I think it's time to short sell Ebay stock.

There's a marketing slogan: "Ebay, the next Enron. Get out while there's still something to get out of!"


Posted by: Peggy Miller | April 12, 2008 7:48 PM | Report abuse

I've been a seller on Ebay for 10 years. I have 100% feedback rating and have always enjoyed my "little" home-based business.
Not anymore! I'm searching for a new place and want to say thank you to those that have posted links. I'll be checking them out today.

Ebay never charged Buyers. ALL money came from the Sellers! What kind of stupid hit's the people that actually fund your company? I should also add that most sellers are also buyers. It's rare, very rare to find a seller that does not have feedback from buying. Check out most seller's feedback and click on "received as a buyer" and you will see I know what I'm talking about.

Ebay says without Buyers there will be no sales. I say without Sellers there will be no Buyers as well.

The best thing Ebay had going was it's name. If you couldn't find it anywhere where did you go? Ebay. That's what built their name and now all the small sellers that have built the Ebay name are being hit and hit hard.

Knowing Ebay's way of saying one thing and doing another I'd guess they have a plan that doesn't include 90% of the sellers. I also believe the timing of Ebay's new "Pro-shop" launch is the biggest clue.

Ebay and Paypal have become a slick and it seems sneaky company and I wish them nothing but failure. If I held stocks I'd get out now.

Posted by: Long time seller | April 12, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

justme: "Those are not the comments I submitted. I stated I was in favor of the new policies and that as a seller who always leaves feedback first it is not big deal."

Yeah. Right. A glitch. (okay, it could be, but somehow I sense "poster's remorse" and maybe a teensie bit of fear.)

Let's see just how you feel come the feedback changes when your DSRs put you out of the competition for no reason other than buyers' ignorance (due to misinformation) and eBay's slanted algorithm.

Posted by: Rosie Riveter | April 13, 2008 2:26 AM | Report abuse

As I stated previously, I am not afraid of the new feedback rules - in over 10 years I have a 99.9% with DSR of 4.9 and I always leave feedback first.

What I am afraid of is the sellers who have left and will come to ebay to bid and cause problems for those of us who stayed by leaving negative feedback.

You can go to the chat rooms on the other sites and you can tell they really want to sabatoge the people who don't agree with them.

Posted by: Just Me | April 13, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm an ebay Powerseller with 100% Positive feedback. I've also been reading and listening to all the thousands of unsatisfied seller and buyers alike, these past 2 months.
I first thought ebay was going through a phase of bad business decissions and the changes implemented by a confused yuppie who is taking over soon.

After some consideration, I now believe eBay, and the confused yuppie, can't really be that dumb, and what they're doing is purposedly "shooing" away the sellers so they can more easily implement their upcomming changes and create an on-line Walmart selling overstocked items.
I just wish someone with money and vision create another on-line marketplace, since the billions made each year by ebay are up for grabs.
Let the turkeys at eBay have their "wannabe site", whomever takes over their clientelle will laugh all the way to the bank, and I wish them success.

Posted by: Mike McDavid | April 13, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

justme said: "What I am afraid of is the sellers who have left and will come to ebay to bid and cause problems for those of us who stayed by leaving negative feedback."

That *might* happen. More likely, the sellers will leave and grow their business elsewhere (eCrater, Online Auctions, Etsy, and more are seeing marked increases in listings and this will no doubt grow). "We" will be too busy to worry about what's happening on a site where we no longer sell. (except to let other sellers and buyers know where we have gone, and leaving retaliatory negs for sellers that stay makes absolutely NO sense.)

What is more likely is a rash of undeserved negs by *anyone who feels like it*--changing the entire complexion of feedback, just because they can, and because there will be *no recourse.* If you believe that eBay will remove unwarranted negs, you probably also still believe in the Easter Bunny. No insult meant, as I think what a lot of loyal eBay cheerleaders are not getting is that the changes happening, and the nice but naive policy of leaving feedback for customers before they leave it for you, will open your business to more negative feedback than you could imagine. I do hope I am wrong.

"You can go to the chat rooms on the other sites and you can tell they really want to sabatoge the people who don't agree with them."

That's not what I've seen. I've seen seriously angry (at eBay, not at other sellers) people who want eBay to listen and make changes. The continued refusal of eBay to even acknowledge that there might be problems with their recent changes has a lot of people really upset, and these people are looking for help and alternatives.

Sure, it's frustrating that there are those who believe that eBay's changes will make things better. I trust that these people will discover the truth behind the changes -- a few undeserved low DSRs can change your attitude pretty quickly, particularly when your listings fall off the radar or your account is suspended because of something that you have absolutely no control over.

You of course do not have to support the boycott and are quite free to continue to do business on eBay, as am I.

I for one am opting out of a system that no longer works for me, something I feel is smart business. Of course, it may take a while for the alternative sites to catch the traffic, but with good marketing, sellers can take their repeat buyers with them, elsewhere.

Posted by: Rosie Riveter | April 13, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse


Can you picture this? I call the Post and ask to put in a 7 day ad for a washing machine for sale.

The person at the Post asks me, have you sold washing machines before, how did the buyers react to the sales, what are the ratings on your DSRs, do you accept PayPal for payment, do you package and ship for FREE, have you ever been called a PowerSeller, what is the feedback positive percentage of your sales, ETC. ???

OK, I have enough info., according to the form I filled out we will show your item on Wednesday for sure, we may even show it another day.

I am sorry BUT we must charge you for all 7 days. Good luck on having it in the paper for more then one day. THANKS FOR THE MONEY.

WHERE ARE THE LAWYERS????????????????


We do still have anti-trust laws in the USA don't we?????????????????

Posted by: ebayisscrewedup | April 13, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

--If you believe that eBay will remove unwarranted negs, you probably also still believe in the Easter Bunny.--

Sure they will - for a fee. A really BIG fee. They've created the disease to sell the cure. By removing seller feedback, they have turned SafeHarbor into Solid Gold Harbor. The best part is that they are doomed to failure if only because they've chosen to implement this idiotic scheme at the very peak of a recession when even a sane business plan might not survive.


Posted by: Anonymous | April 13, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse



EBay stopped "Best Match" today because of "keyword" spamming. SELLERS & EBAY HAVE LOST TONS OF MONEY!


HERE is the sneaky part, it will look like you are in "ending soonest" BUT if you check your default you will see:


Them sneaky SOBs are forcing Best Math on everyone AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: bestmatchscrewedup | April 13, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Matt Halprin's remarks on masking bidder ID's on eBay:

Masking User ID's does NOT make the marketplace more transparent or safer.

Masking Bidder ID's to protect against fraud in second chance offers is not justified.

Maintaining maximum User ID exposure and branding is paramount.

Users invested heavily to build good User ID names to represent positive branding.

Blotting Bidder/Buyer ID's reduces exposure by half and the ability to connect at maximum level is diminished.

Second Chance offers should cease if fraud is so prevalent.

Drastic action like Masking ID's is not the answer in the services sector, where buying and selling requires maximum exposure.

The masking concept creates an environment where trust is diminished.
Masking ID's gives the impression of hiding something, which always causes suspicion.

The masking User ID concept invites and fosters fraud.

Second Chance offers are not as important as showing a User's ID at all times on eBay, no matter what.

Sellers can relist an item instead of using Second Chance offers...insertion fees are lower now...

Things were fine the way they were, without second chance offers.
All they really do is complicate matters and give eBay an opportunity to collect another Final Value and PayPal fee.

Sellers can start new auctions rather than utilizing Second Chance offer.

The price we have to pay is too high just to sell in Second Chance offers.

eBay says masking ID's, making bidders anonymous protects against fraud.
This is simply disingenuous.
Something else is eBay's main concern?

Who ever thought of the Second Chance offer concept anyway?
It seems with every new idea eBay comes up with, there is more potential for fraud.

Auctioning is what's fun and attractive about eBay.
eBay ought to stick to what makes it attractive.

eBay is all about Branding and Advertising is their game...

How can eBay believe that it's vital to increase it's own Exposure, Advertising and Branding and then limit and reduce User ID Exposure/Advertising, Branding.

Censorship in this case is immoral and beyond unfair.

eBay made a huge mistake and needs to re-decide on all changes.

Having a Harvard business degree doesn't necessarily guarantee correctness.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 13, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Ebay is violating our Constitutional Rights!

When a Company like eBay arbitrarily decides to take the constitutional rights,
of expressing the opinion of their constituents
they are violating the very base of the US Constitution.
We need to have the freedom to express our opinions; we have the legal right to
defend ourselves; The new feedback policy violates the fundamental freedom
given to us to express ourselves, when only one individual has the unilateral right
to leave negative feedback, the seller is no longer entitled to voice that opinion,
in a clear violation of our constitutional rights to free speech
or the right to express ourselves.

eBay not only is increasing the fees by 67%
PayPal -an eBay Company- will also Freeze our accounts!

We need to remain eBay that we are in the United States
and not in Countries like North Korea, Iran, and others
where the freedom to give and take your opinion
is silenced by the dictatorship of the individuals running those countries.

We have no protection and I feel vulnerable,
eBay is denying us of our constitutional rights.

Jay Jurado

Posted by: Jay Jurado | April 14, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse

I have been a loyal eBay buyer and seller for the last 6 years. I understand that businesses are going to make changes as they see fit and I am ready to roll with the punches. However, since the beginning of this year it is becoming very clear that eBay does not want my 10's of thousands of dollars worth of transactions between buying and selling a year.

I have lost complete faith and trust in a company that has made it obviously clear that I am nothing but "noise" to them. Too bad.

Posted by: Burned1time2many | April 14, 2008 5:19 AM | Report abuse

EBay kicks a mutitude of PowerSellers out of the club.


Not only did the honest "play by the rules" PowerSellers stand no chance of selling but eBay punished them.

MAYBE eBay will let them back in the "club".

I doubt it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: ebaydidit | April 14, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

In May/June of 2007, Ebay entered into an agreement with Yahoo whereby Yahoo would take down its US Auction site (then the #2 auction site) in exchange for the right to sell and display Yahoo Click Ads on ebay.

This deal received little publicity; in fact, the excuse given for Y Auction's demise at the time was that Microsoft, a potential suitor, wanted it gone as a precondition of possible sale. This was a very believable reason and was accepted by most, myself included.

The truth was made available much later in the form of ebay's announcements to the investor community. Undoubtedly aware of the coming changes, ebay closed off its only credible competition, forcing sellers to remain and ultimately suffer financially.

The adverse impact of the click ads themselves, competing with sellers' own auctions for placement in search results, is an altogether seperate (albeit explosive) subject...

There is not a doubt in my mind that the backroom Yahoo deal stands as the biggest ebay doublecross to date, and the one that has received the least media and legal scrutiny.

The irony is that if Yahoo had refused to participate, they'd be flush with cash now, 6 months later, as hordes of disenchanted sellers came aboard from an Ebay exodus. People are ACTIVELY seeking a workable alternative and Y Auctions fit the bill nicely.

I feel that what happened was done intentionally, with full awareness of the impending changes, and bears Federal examination. With the future incoming administration, that is certainly possible.

Posted by: permacrisis | April 14, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse


More for you to read about eBay's "Best Match" FLAWS. Dated 4/13/2008.

Posted by: bestmatchREALLY | April 14, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse


READ this article, it sums up eBay's changes.

Posted by: donahoesucks | April 15, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

I'm in the minority here. I do trust ebay to police the buyers. It appears many people are failing to remember that the buyer is not the ENEMY! There are millions of honest dedicated buyers that just want an item; their not out to scam sellers. I've sold over 5000 separate items and have yet to experience any type of fraud from a buyer. I'm wondering how many of these 'sellers' posting on this blog are actually good sellers. I firmly believe these changes will separate the good sellers from the bad sellers. BRAVO! Hopefully Ebays reputation will start to improve.

Posted by: powerseller | April 16, 2008 1:40 AM | Report abuse

I buy on Ebay occasionally. I've never left negative feedback because I'm worried about retaliation. Some change is necessary.

Posted by: Buyer | April 16, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

The competition watchdog is examining whether eBay Australia breached trade practice laws by forcing its users on to PayPal. PayPal performs payment processing for online sellers, allowing them to accept credit card payments and money transfers without having their own merchant credit card accounts.
The policy, to come into effect on June 17, will mean all items must be paid for using PayPal, which eBay owns, or cash on delivery/pick-up. Direct bank deposits, cheques and money orders will all be barred. The move by the auction site is presently limited to Australia only and will hit sellers with extra fees because PayPal charges them a fee of between 1.1 and 2.4 per cent to accept payments - usually using credit cards - via the service.
Sellers have already begun revolting by papering eBay's discussion boards and starting a petition, which has more than 3500 signatures. The sellers are sceptical about eBay's claims that PayPal is far safer than other methods such as bank deposit, and say some buyers distrust PayPal.
"If consumers want the additional protection offered by using PayPal, they can choose to use PayPal, and eBay's proposed conduct takes away that choice and would likely prevent the emergence of competitors to PayPal in the online payment market," said Dale Clapperton, chairman of the online users' lobby group Electronic Frontiers Australia.
Alastair MacGibbon, eBay's trust and safety director, said the announcement was designed to protect users as one is four times less likely to have a problem on eBay if one pays using PayPal than with other methods. EBay has written to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) asking for immunity from legal action under the Trade Practices Act, arguing that the public benefits of the move - increased transaction security - would outweigh any detriment to the public that might be caused by a lessening of competition in the online payments market.

Posted by: greedybay | April 16, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse


Here is another link for eBay education.

Posted by: eBaydownunder | April 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I think the feedback change is a good thing. There are sellers selling useless
wholesale lists and they have 100% feedback, isn't suspicious to anyone?

The only thing a seller should care about is if he gets paid or not.

Most buyers are honest and they pay so it's all good. Few don't pay and very very very few are scammers. In those cases, you can always report to eBay. You can blacklist them. You should automatically blacklist buyers with 0 feedback in the first place. If the buyer is really bad, you can even submit their ID's to - a site where sellers share their bidder blacklists.

Posted by: ken | April 16, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: therealebay | April 16, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: grabmoneybay | April 17, 2008 8:13 AM | Report abuse


MORE from the media about the eBay "boss".

Posted by: donahoeville | April 18, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Negative feedback problem

Not everyone is a nice person out there and can't be counted on to be fair when it comes to leaving feedback for a seller. Even if everything was done just right. Even if you bent over backwards. Even if you added a cute little thank you note within the shipment. No matter what, there are going to be those that come along and just want to "stick it to ya", even if you did a great job. When there are deterrents in place, this scenario would be less likely to happen.

That's why it's insane of ebay to have made such a foul decision.

But when sellers can leave appropriate feedback for troublesome buyers the feedback system stays in check and allows the seller enough room to deal rationally with a buyer like this because the seller has some power too in the transaction. There is equality. The buyer will restrain himself more in this situation.

People with a conscience will leave a kind remark and will not try to pull power over you.

In my 10 year experience as a seller on ebay I always gave a darn about my auctions, my customers, my feedback and was always happy to make buyers happy. No problem, really.

I really cannot relate to ebay's reasoning, or any method used to figure all the changes where I imagine research tools, charts to graphs, everything, data research, new software programs etc. were all employed to tell ebay whether a buyer should get any negative feedback. All the time and money spent to figure something as basic as feedback was silly and way over done, Especially since the change wasn't necessary.

I just know that everything always went smoothly for me and my customers prior to the change and I never had to leave a negative comment for anyone, ever.

Too much TO DO has been made over these relatively minor issues and when the dust settles ebay will find a huge hole where sellers used to be. They are leaving, that's a fact. I don't think any of ebay's fancy research tools could have helped them figure this out: that basic common decency was probably the only resource they needed to make decisions on feedback.

But now, buyers will feel less respect for sellers, just because we can't leave them a negative. It puts the relationship out of balance and empowers the customer too much.

To tie it up, the decision came from charts, tests, research, years of observation, but I still say all of that only told ebay the incorrect answer.

There really was no problem to find a solution for, because feedback worked just fine.

I have seen too many very good sellers with near perfect feedback. That proves to me the old, balanced feedback system worked fine, and change was not needed.

Now sellers are not fine and I do not think over time that the problems that are sure to come with the new feedback, will prove to be easier or more effective than the way feedback used to be,
Why play around with something that works fine.

Posted by: KarenD | April 19, 2008 5:49 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: givememoney | April 19, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Ebay purchased Paypal awhile back and they are doing the same thing that Amazon does;
they refund the buyer the money and don't do anything about getting the item returned. To me that is supporting fraud. How is that legal? How can these two giants of online sales get away with this legally?

Posted by: helen | April 19, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse


More information about greedybay:

Posted by: ebaydownunder | April 20, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse


Read this, NOW eBay is NOT going to let sellers leave ANY feedback at ALL!!!,3800011842,39193709,00.htm

Posted by: feedbackisgone | April 21, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: downunder | April 21, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Hi Rob,

As a seller, I believe the feedback change is needed. However, I do get annoyed with non-paying bidders(what a waste of time!) and bidders that like to return things.

Hence, I have created to help sellers to avoid transactions with such buyers. This is a site where you can share your bidder blacklist with other sellers. Since we can no longer leave negative feedback, I think the best way to combat the bad bidder problem is to avoid them.

Please take a look and let me know what you think! Cheers Jon

Posted by: Jon | April 22, 2008 2:25 AM | Report abuse

asolutely not, they have ZERO protection for sellers and encourage bad bidders. I have made my own website years ago and do dump my surplus rather than risk losing more on feebay.

Posted by: nomorefeebay | April 27, 2008 2:42 AM | Report abuse

eBay says they will make it easy to remove an unwarranted negative feedback?

When you get caught up in filing disputes, non paying bidders, proving your case with receipts, postal proof, etc., contacting customer service...any red tape on eBay...NOTHING BUT AN EXXAGERATED TO DO will go on for days. It won't be easy for eBay to go through removing a negative feedback...just a big to do.

My experience with any resolution has been that there is an exorbitant waste of time just to begin to try to straighten out red tape with eBay. Forget it, you'll never sell. You won't be able to! You won't be able to laser focus on your business and sell. All your time will go to constant distractions from eBay, their notices and messages!

No...that's no way to go, to run a business. You need to be right with your business all the time, without distractions! eBay is dreaming~~~and very interfering...

eBay just makes EVERYTHING so overly complicated!

Posted by: KD | April 27, 2008 7:24 AM | Report abuse

If you're an eBay seller, do you trust this company to police the marketplace in place of you?

I'm a platinum power seller. To get trust you have to earn it. The direction has been for quite some time with eBay is giving sellers "buyers" even if they pay for a item or not. I started in 2000 when deadbeats were rare and the thought of being one was a horror thought. Now my deadbeat list is in the 1000's. Now it's seems it's no big deal to be a deadbeat. How did we get here? Lets take a look what eBay has done so far:

1. eBay put a end to feedback sniping. This was a tool for sellers to leave a negative feedback for deadbeat buyers at the last seconds withing the time frame of 90 days after the sale without fear of a retaliatory negative from a deadbeat.

2. The end of This was a service helped sellers monitor current bidders to manage problem bidders. Great when you have 1000's of listings at once. Code changes on the eBay site prevented this service from operating so it closed.

3. Allow buyers with false contact information. It's common to email a invoice to the buyer & the email bounces back as "unknown user" "not our customer" ect. ect. eBay sends emails to buyers also but does NOTHING to restrict the buying. Most of the deadbeats have false contact info. Sure you can still use the Ebay broken shipping calculator & send defective invoices through their system.

4. Turned off the page that had current bidders with email addresses. This was used to send friendly emails to current bidders. If the email bounces the seller had a chance to block the bidder.

5. Take off non-pay strikes on deadbeats. At the deadbeats request eBay will take the strike off. Leave the seller NO RECOURSE but to pay the listing fee.

6. Paypal changed the way "Significantly not as described" disputes are handled. Since eBay took it over SNAD can also mean buyers remorse or change of mind & the seller LOOSES every case. Before the eBay takeover if the seller described the item correctly the case was winnable.

7. Deadbeats allowed to deadbeat again 30 Days after a non-pay strike. Only tool available for the seller is a option to block buyers with a -1

8. Systematically eBay has taken down all defenses for the sellers. The LAST & FINAL one is now it's not able to leave negative feedback for buyers when it's due

Would you accept such a "we'll take things from here" proposition from the management of any online community?

The only thing the eBay management is focusing on is getting buyers paying or not at the cost of the seller. They screwed it up so far. One wonders how they will take it from here.

Posted by: Bob | May 2, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

If you're an eBay seller, do you trust this company to police the marketplace in place of you?

I'm a platinum power seller. To get trust you have to earn it. The direction has been for quite some time with eBay is giving sellers "buyers" even if they pay for a item or not. I started in 2000 when deadbeats were rare and the thought of being one was a horror thought. Now my deadbeat list is in the 1000's. Now it's seems it's no big deal to be a deadbeat. How did we get here? Lets take a look what eBay has done so far:

1. eBay put a end to feedback sniping. This was a tool for sellers to leave a negative feedback for deadbeat buyers at the last seconds withing the time frame of 90 days after the sale without fear of a retaliatory negative from a deadbeat.

2. The end of This was a service helped sellers monitor current bidders to manage problem bidders. Great when you have 1000's of listings at once. Code changes on the eBay site prevented this service from operating so it closed.

3. Allow buyers with false contact information. It's common to email a invoice to the buyer & the email bounces back as "unknown user" "not our customer" ect. ect. eBay sends emails to buyers also but does NOTHING to restrict the buying. Most of the deadbeats have false contact info. Sure you can still use the Ebay broken shipping calculator & send defective invoices through their system.

4. Turned off the page that had current bidders with email addresses. This was used to send friendly emails to current bidders. If the email bounces the seller had a chance to block the bidder.

5. Take off non-pay strikes on deadbeats. At the deadbeats request eBay will take the strike off. Leave the seller NO RECOURSE but to pay the listing fee.

6. Paypal changed the way "Significantly not as described" disputes are handled. Since eBay took it over SNAD can also mean buyers remorse or change of mind & the seller LOOSES every case. Before the eBay takeover if the seller described the item correctly the case was winnable.

7. Deadbeats allowed to deadbeat again 30 Days after a non-pay strike. Only tool available for the seller is a option to block buyers with a -1

8. Systematically eBay has taken down all defenses for the sellers. The LAST & FINAL one is now it's not able to leave negative feedback for buyers when it's due

Would you accept such a "we'll take things from here" proposition from the management of any online community?

The only thing the eBay management is focusing on is getting buyers paying or not at the cost of the seller. They screwed it up so far. One wonders how they will take it from here.

Posted by: Bob | May 2, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

No, I do not trust ebay! I'm a power seller with over 5,000 feedback 99.9%. I'm a single grandmother raising 2 teenage grandsons . How can ebay be so disgusting and allow buyers to determine my paycheck. 3 weeks ago a MORON from England bought an item that weights 8 pounds and clearly states I ship to the USA and Canada, she bought the item and paid 13.00 shipping, I refunded the payment and send an invoice with the actual shipping charge by Usps priority mail 46.80. She said I changed the shipping charge after she bought the item and said she will not pay and she would leave me appropriate feedback. I filled a non paying bidder and she did not respond. 2 days later another buyer bought an item 2 minutes later she bought knockoffs from another seller with free shipping and cheaper price, she paid for his and refused to pay for mine.I reported knockoffs more than 20 times with no avail. If ebay cares about buyers they will take down all the knockoffs that are reported, they know they are knockoffs because the buyers leave neg on a daily basis saying BEWARE NOT GENUINE BUT KNOCKOFFS. Safe harbor answer is they have no knowledge they are knockoffs. They care about the bottom line and no one else.I refused to be scam, extorted and be at the mercy of liars, crooks and scammers. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON ebay, I HAVE NONE. I will take my business elsewhere to someone who appreciates me and my business. I WAS A BUYER AND SELLER AND I WILL NEVER BUY ONE THING OR SELL ON ebay. ebay WITHOUT SELLERS YOU ARE NOTHING!!!! I WOULD GO TO YOUR FUNERAL BUT YOU ARE NOT WORTHY!! RIP!!!!

Posted by: heart broken | May 3, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Avoid eBay/PayPal like the plague, regardless of any sucker deals they offer.
It appears as though a former employee has left PayPal with the database.Just more PROOF! PayPal is NOT safe, NEVER has been. They operate with total lack of any real concern for your safety.Anyone with common sense should immediately close both their Ebay and Paypal accounts. Your information is NOT safe with this company. They know it, they lie about it, and they don't care if you get screwed.

Posted by: MIke R. | May 4, 2008 1:22 AM | Report abuse

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