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Apple MacBook Combines High Art and a Higher Price

I feel a little silly today: After writing earlier this year that Apple's MacBook suffered from its aging design and likely replacement by a brand-new model -- then explicitly telling you not to buy a Mac laptop at all in the few days before the new MacBook's unveiling -- here I am saying that the new MacBook doesn't offer as much value as the older, $100 cheaper version.

This opinion could easily change in a few months. Apple could knock $200 or $300 off the price of the new machine as it masters the art of carving its "unibody" case out an ingot of aluminum. Or Apple could discontinue the $999 white MacBook. Or Apple could do both, then introduce a souped-up MacBook made out of carbon-fiber composite that leaves this model at the more affordable end of its laptop lineup. With this company, you never know.

Here are a few more details about the new MacBook that didn't quite fit in today's column:

* I didn't really address this computer's high-end graphics chipset, because I didn't see any distinct benefit from it in programs like iPhoto. But when I installed Windows Vista on the MacBook using Apple's Boot Camp software, this computer earned an impressive Windows Experience Index score of 5.0. Apple also says you'll easily see this Nvidia processor's power in games.

Update: A couple of Nvidia reps stopped by the Post late this morning to talk up their new hardware, including the GeForce 9400M used in the MacBook. Their first demo involved manipulating a 750-megabyte image in Adobe's Photoshop CS4 on the MacBook, which I thought a tad unrealistic for home use. But they followed that up by playing Call of Duty 4, a much more convincing test--the Mac cruised through the game's graphics at about 30 frames per second, while a Sony Vaio laptop with a conventional integrated graphics chipset gagged on this title and could barely manage one frame per second.

* Although I think it was dumb for Apple to leave out a FireWire port on the MacBook, there are workarounds for two common FireWire uses: the Migration Assistant tool that moves your data, settings and programs to a new Mac, and Target Disk Mode, which lets you treat an otherwise inoperative Mac's hard drive as an external drive plugged into another Mac. Migration Assistant now works over Ethernet as well as FireWire, and is arguably easier to use this way -- you don't have to reboot the old Mac to transfer your data. And instead of Target Disk Mode, you can easily remove the MacBook's hard drive (it's next to the battery), then plug it into an external enclosure to connect it to another Mac.

* Although the higher-end $1,599 MacBook configuration includes a backlit keyboard, the $1,299 model does not -- you can't even add one as a build-to-order option.

* This is the first Mac to include a new type of video connector called a DisplayPort, which provides greater video bandwidth in a smaller plug. But you will need adapters to connect this output to older VGA and DVI monitors.

* Apple touts this computer's environmental qualities, from its compact packaging to the vastly reduced amount of toxic chemicals used in its manufacture. It even estimates this computer's carbon footprint over its lifespan in a brief report (PDF).

Have you picked up a new MacBook or MacBook Pro? If you have, could you share your experience with it in the comments? And if you've decided not to: What led you to give your credit card a rest?

By Rob Pegoraro  |  October 23, 2008; 10:40 AM ET
Categories:  Computers , Mac  
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Comments

I'm a recent Mac convert (at the beginning of August), so I was dismayed to hear that Apple would be making my laptop obsolete so quickly after I bought it. After seeing their newest "upgrade," it looks like I don't have anything to worry about.

I think it was a remarkably poor decision on Apple's part to up the price on their already very expensive notebooks for a few cosmetic tweaks. The case looks a little different, the keyboard glows, and they got rid of the mouse button. Big deal.

This hardware upgrade feels like the XP-->Vista transition for Microsoft. It looks a little prettier, but it works exactly the same. As for the graphics -- no one buys a Mac to play games, Rob, so I'm afraid the souped-up Nvidia is going to go unnoticed by the majority of new buyers.

Posted by: Doc | October 23, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

My order for a MacBook Pro just went out, so I'm an adopter.

There's a couple of issues. First off, the new video out. The older MacBook also has a funky connector, mini-DVI. The adapter also costs $29. The only difference here is that Apple no longer ships an adapter free with the computer.

In terms of performance it's ALL about the new graphics chip. Also, the next version of OS X (Snow Leopard) is supposed to take advantage of the graphics processor. So, the new MacBook is likely to get a speed bump from software in the next year or so.

Does it offer as much value right now? Probably not for your needs. The design and construction is improved, which is quite distinct from cosmetics. Cosmetics go on top. This is built differently from the ground up.

BB

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

So they copied Sony and changed very little. BIG WHOOP!
Why arent tech editors actually people that know anything about tech products.

For instance:
"new graphics chip" Nvidia's graphics chip that's available on many other PC's as they innovated and install the latest hardware.

Fire these know-nothing editors and get the fat pasty guys with glasses and a pocket protector that actually know something other than marketing!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

"I too am a new Mac converter but I have been using Mac Computers for the last 7 years and the technology that is in them has done nothing but improve and has proved me time and time again that if you are using a Windows operating system that you arent a skilled computer user since Mac's definently are much much more advance. The price on them, yes, it is a bit high, but when you understand what you are getting, its really not all that bad.

AS for the new MacBook Pro and MacBook. I agree with the statement made my Doc, the new Nvidia graphics card is going to go unnoticed by 95% of the buyers because they won't be playing games on there Mac's since that is not what these incredbile machines are built for. Whoopee on the glass touch pad... just one more thing that can get dirty and that you have to keep clean. I have used the new MacBook and MacBook Pro and I dont see all that big of a difference.

The case may look cooler since the screen is flush with the black strip along the outside and the camera is built into that and the keys are spaced and black like they are on the MacBook Air and the original MacBook's.

Otherwise, the new MacBook and MacBook Pro's are can be upgraded more but can do nothing more than the "old versions" that Doc and I have.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

While I cannot put a monetary value on "feel" if you inspect, hold, and work with this laptop, you'll be amazed on how much better the fit and finish, the stiffness, the clarity of the screen is. You may have thought your old Macbook was the best built laptop before but this makes my old Macbook and even my XPS m1530 look like a toy. I don't know if it's worth the extra money for people but if they try it out at a store, I think they'll be impressed.

Posted by: HasTooManyComputers | October 23, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

What I'd like to see is a comarison between the Macbook and a similarly kitted out (in terms of processor, hd, ram, video chipset) Windows laptop from, say, Dell. Or HP. How overpriced is the Mac?

I bought my 24" iMac a couple years ago because it was, arguably, no more expensive than a Linux box set up the same way in terms of video, ram, processor and, most importantly, noise. Those Antec quiet cases are pricey, and then you still need to spend hundreds more for the fans, quiet cooling system, etc.

So is the Macbook comparable to a Windows notebook?

I'd really like to see a Mac Netbook. Or Mac version of the Archos player. (7" screen!) I've got a 605, which is great for watching on long airplane flights, and in the airport while waiting.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

The above comment by wiredog. I'm signed in, but the software still posts my comments as "anonymous".

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Ah-ha! If you hit 'preview' the old functionality, where you enter a name, is still there!

Posted by: wiredog | October 23, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Testing... interesting. Wiredog, I don't think the templates are completely rolled out here yet. It'll be different shortly..!

Posted by: MC | October 23, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Ever notice that when Apple brings out a new product there are those people that have some sort of complaint. They have no real idea where the puck is at. They believe that the puck remains where it was 10nsec ago. They keep comparing new products to the old. Apple will have some surprises for everyone when the software catches up with the next gen products....and all of a sudden, there will not be anyone complaining anymore, because there will be the next gen product to replace it....and the pissing contest will begin all over again.

Posted by: Bob | October 23, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Yikes! Your review is indeed a bit short sighted. The cost drop will certainly drop by 200 or so within the next year. That is built into the chip prices (are you really a technology journalist)
The cost is almost always a bit higher when you totally redo a product. You have to do some highly radical things to lower a price given the cost of new chips. Even the graphics chips are in new form factors that raise initial costs.

The new Apples are faster, better for the environment, and have a few minor bits of coolness. They are incrementally better. Yeah the lower end lost firewire, but that does not affect most users.

Why do the professional writers want to blow things out of proportion? Sorry, this was just a slow news day and as such not a reason to tell folks that you were duped into believing that all Apple announcements will create world peace and make ugly people beautiful.

This is simply a refresh with a new case and a new track pad. It helped create a better profit margin for Apple and a marginally (and expected) upgrade for folks that need a new Apple.

The only disappointment here is the lack of a new case and track pad for the 17 inch mac. I am ready for an upgrade, but will hold off waiting for that upgrade a few months more. Why? Well, it is about screen real estate for me. Would prefer to have the track pad as a inducement and the new case does seem a bit more rugged. The lack of no glare screen is just something I will live with - but I compute in the dark anyway.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I wanted to move to the mac world (well..the intel CPU macs also run windows (virtual or bootcamp); so was waiting for the new notebook. But I DID need firewire as I have a miniDV camcorder that I need to record home videos & use iMovie to edit. So what did I do...went ahead & bought a previous gen 15 inch Macbook pro for a price close to the new $1300 macbook. I think thats a good deal....But I would be recommending the new $1300 macbook to anyone who doesnt need firewire.
However I do wish that they drop the price (which I think they will after the holiday season during macworld 2009). I am testing out virtual windows xp using vmware & parallels...looks very promising. ofcourse if I need some more raw power on windows with the new macs I would use bootcamp.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

LOL at bob. Probably true. Apple products have been coming with n wireless capability even when nobody had even heard of them. Who knows what apple might have included in this one, which would be used in the next software update

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

I've always enjoyed seeing these budget graphics cards being described as high-end by apple.
Here's a head's up, that's one of the cheapest cards out. Just because a promotions page bills it as better than whatever they had before, doesn't mean that you'll be able to play new releases with it. In fact, you should expect to be using very low setting for anything that's less than a year old.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm usually solidly in the PC camp as I use a lot of 3rd party apps, am an avid gamer, and do extensive video work and a PC covers all my bases. However, I was salivating over the new mac laptops. For me the deal killer oddly enough was the lack of a firewire port. The pro has one (albeit inferior)but I find myself too tempted to spend the cash I would drop on a pro, on a custom quadcore desktop instead :)

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I cant stomach how expensive macs have become. And I really need a new one!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Well, unlike - I think - everybody who has commented here, I actually BOUGHT a new MacBook. I ordered the $1599 machine with 4gb of RAM, received it on Friday.

First impressions: the new case isn't just beautiful, it's functional. Hard to explain to those who haven't carted one around, yet, but that aluminum frame creates a stiffer laptop that I don't find myself baby-ing like the old plastic MacBooks. Psychologically - at least for me! - that's important. But also, tangibly, the aluminum is more comfortable under my hands. I think that's also a function of the slightly thinner body.

I go back and forth on the new track pad. Frankly, I don't see the point in taking away the buttons if the pad itself is one big button. Maybe it'd be different if it really was like an iphone - that is, you just touch it to click. But you actually have to press down on this one, like a button.

I'm running Adobe CS4 on mine, and the performance is really good, really smooth. I have a big design job next week, and I'll be moving some of that from my desktop machine, to this one.

All in all, I'm really impressed, and I don't regret spending the money. As my traveling computer, this is a huge, comfortable upgrade.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

test

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

I waited for a month for the new MacBooks to come out, and I wasn't disappointed! Yes, they are a little expensive, but you really get what you pay for (especially in terms of quality of construction). The biggest concerns I see with people not buying one is the lack of firewire, the graphics card, and price. The latter is really just a matter of it being made by Apple, so you'll pay more to get more.
The firewire is really not that big of a deal. If you want it, buy a MacBook Pro; you're probably going to need the extra power anyways. The graphics card - come on, even though it's brand new, it is integrated, so you'll never see the awesome performance of a dedicated card on new games. That said, I have been very impressed. I get over 60 fps on Guild Wars (not in towns), much more than I expected. Expose runs smooth as butter even while playing a 1080p video.
The only possibility I could see for improvement would be to bring the backlit keyboard to the lower-end model. I really see why it's so useful now! It was my choice to get the lower-end though, so I'll live with it. How many other computers at that price have one?
All in all, I made a very good decision to buy a new MacBook. I bought a new computer that will probably be my main one for 4-5 years.

Posted by: Sam | October 23, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

It's a confusing message Apple has book out with the MB. Due to underpowered video support, previous MB was not supposed to be able to run Final Cut Pro. (That was the official stance, but it could run it, albeit with a bit of a struggle). So - Apple upgrades the MB with a video card, making it more Final Cut friendly; ostensibly making the MB more appealing to video professional and prosumers. Then - they take out Firewire, which is the most common and reliable video throughput interface. I would have run out an bought the new MB - had it had FW. I like the size of the MB over the MBP for editing while traveling. Mark me very disappointed.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

My wife got me hooked on Mac 3 years ago and I have yet to look back. I just purchased the new 2.4 13" Macbook and I could not be more happy with it. Feels much more sturdier, solid than any laptop out there.
You simply cannot explain the great experience you get with a Mac compared to a PC. Everything is more simple and logical. (hard to explain just get one.)
Everyone always compares just specs when comparing Macs and PC's but that is not what makes Macs great...(just like cars..there is more to a car then just pure HP or track numbers. Its how well the internal parts of the car works to give a perfect balance for the driver.)its the software, user experience. I love my new macbook and I highly recommend it.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

It's funny that anybody in this day and age could ever imagine that a computer case milled out of aluminium (of all things) was at all environmentally friendly. Unfortunately this is another aspect of the aesthetics and superficiality surrounding this brand. Even the way that they're releasing minor upgrades of perfectly good products in quick succession is another very real example of how truly un-environmentally friendly they are and will probably remain.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

My macbook pro is in the mail. 2.8 GHz, 4GB 1066 RAM, 7200rpm HD. Nice body. Sweet.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

But I don't want to be 'Anonymous.'

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

For those that are complaining that the MacBooks are so much more expensive that their Windows counterparts, read this:

http://technologizer.com/2008/10/19/is-the-new-macbook-expensive/

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"It's funny that anybody in this day and age could ever imagine that a computer case milled out of aluminium (of all things) was at all environmentally friendly."

That just proves that you don't know what you're referring to. Aluminum is very easy to recycle, unlike the plastic cases that most other machines use, which also contain very environmentally unfriendly chemicals compounds. Scraps left over from the milling process are melted down for another block. The same is true for the glass displays and trackpads. When the laptop is eventually discarded, it will be very simple for the recycler to separate the glass & aluminum for reuse. They are also doing other things to make the logic boards more environmentally friendly than previous generations.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

The new MacBooks are amazing. Being a little geek kid, it took me a while to save up, but i got the $1,299 MacBook model. I am amazignly pleased with it. It runs super fast (compared to my 10 year old dell) and the trackpad is revalutionary. I bought a wireless mighty mouse and don't even need it. the battery life is amazing, and is really easy to set up and use. Super worth it. iWork is really nice. So is xcode for programming once you figure it out ( use apple's quide on how to use it and look up C++ on xcode on google ).

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

"It's funny that anybody in this day and age could ever imagine that a computer case milled out of aluminium (of all things) was at all environmentally friendly. Unfortunately this is another aspect of the aesthetics and superficiality surrounding this brand. Even the way that they're releasing minor upgrades of perfectly good products in quick succession is another very real example of how truly un-environmentally friendly they are and will probably remain."

Hate to tell you this, but aluminum, like steel, is one raw material that generally has a high recycled material content. Meaning, the aluminum used to make the machines isn't brand new, it's melted down old bits of aluminum, and formed into new shapes. In fact, being a manufacturing engineer, I'd hazard a guess that a good 50% of the waste material from the milling and machining process, gets collected, melted down, and used for other items. It's a very standard practice in manufacturing.

Also, since milling does not require anywhere near as much energy as sheet stamping or pressing materials (think, 20 ton press to stamp a metal shape v 20hp cnc mill).

All together, that apple is using aluminum rather than the plastics that 90% of other computer manufacturers use (which by the way, most aren't recyclable, and most aren't too environmentally friendly) speaks largely for their consciousness of the environment. While Greenpeace might complain that they aren't green enough, they're certainly more green than anyone else.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

The aluminium design is absolutely fantastic, my nearly new macBookPro looks like plastic toy next to it.

However, this computer has two huge drawbacks that will withhold many people from using it.

The first is the ultra-glossy glass screen. It is much, much brighter and has far more reflections than the glossy screens on the previous MacBook and MacBookAir. This thing is a mirror, not a screen! Depending on lighting, it can be impossible to even only watch a DVD, if you don't want to see yourselfs as the movies hero... But in any case, it's extremely distracting and tiring to have to constantly adjust to the reflections, having to distinguish whats part of the image, and what not. This makes this laptop completely unsuitable for any kind of work, be it graphic or not. C'mon Apple.... a screen is there to show what's INSIDE the computer not what's AROUND it!

While I think anybody will ultimately be concerned with the glare problem, the second point only considers a minorit of users, but a substantial one. That's the absence of Firewire. Anybody who does music or audio just won't be able to use this computer, as those that have older or high-end video-cameras. Forcing people to switch from Mac to PC only to get a technology that Apple actually invented is just plain stupid.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

aluminum might be decent - though the question is are they using new aluminum or recycled as the recycled can actually use more energy to make then the new. Thus the reason why it has been a long hard struggle to get company's to do the recycling programs.

I think many people who would buy a low end macbook would be the ones who want to get into video editing, and thus also have maybe a bit older camcorder with firewire.

A good video card is not just for games - it helps a ton for video editing so I think it is something that was smart to have even though it increased the cost of the machine.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm not an Apple owner nor do I plan to be in the near future, however I cannot help be hear/read about Apple and all the "amazing" things they come up with. One of the big news items with the new MacBook Pros is the one piece aluminum frames, which according to this article is "... carved out of an ingot of aluminum." I've read similar post elsewhere such as, "block" and "brick." Can anyone confirm the actual manufacturing technique? My guess is it's a formed frame from a aluminum sheet. If they are indeed machining from a single "block" them >90% of the material is reduced to chips by a machine using an electric motor (an inefficient use of electricity). On the other hand, that explains the high price.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

who moved my cheese?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous@3:57PM: "Can anyone confirm the actual manufacturing technique?"

Sure -- Apple's posted a whole page with a video: http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

"If they are indeed machining from a single "block" them >90% of the material is reduced to chips by a machine using an electric motor (an inefficient use of electricity)."

No, they use lasers and high-speed water jets. (Seriously.) Presumably the excess material is being recaptured and recycled; as others have commented, aluminum is highly recyclable.

Posted by: rsfinn | October 23, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous@11:21 AM: "Why arent tech editors actually people that know anything about tech products."

Nice insult. Rob is one of the better tech writers around, and one of the fairest.

"For instance: "new graphics chip" Nvidia's graphics chip that's available on many other PC's as they innovated and install the latest hardware."

The graphics chip in the new MacBooks (the 9400M) *is* a new chip; Nvidia didn't even announce it until the day after Apple's event.

Any more ignorance you'd like to display?


Posted by: rsfinn | October 23, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

I guess the new posting rules aren't being rolled out on Rob's blog

--wiredog

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Apple. Known for their ease of use in HOME video with HOME camcorders. Connect a camera with firewire and control the camera from your computer. USB will not do this with ANY new camera. NOW... download file with USB. Convert file. Import massive file into iMovie or Final Cut Express to THEN decide what you'd like to edit. I'd like Steve Jobs to now demo the EASY video editing that the MacBook can do. Won't happen. I remember the good old days when I could make a home movie. Guess I have to be a PRO first now. Disappointed

Posted by: PAAT777 | October 24, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I bought a black Macbook around a year ago. I must say that this is by far the best computer that I have ever owned. When they realeased the new Macbooks, my tech guy and me were talking about the new book and any differences that have come from the old to the new.

The graphics chip is a huge upgrade I know.

I think that the biggest thing that they have done are the new case that the book is built out of, as well as the new LCD glass monitor, as well as the backlit keyboard, as well as the new multi touch pad.

I want one really bad. I know that most of these upgrades are cosmetic, but think about it. A stiffer case will make the notebook both lighter and more durable. The new graphics would make my photo editing easier, and just a more enjoyable experience overall. And I know that the new multi-touch trackpad would be a true joy to use.

I want one, and I dont care if anyone says that the are just cosmetic upgrades. They sure are impressive upgrades.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Geez, it's a festival of anon comments. Mine included. The 11:14 a.m. comment should be from Fairlington Blade. So is this one.

With regards to the 11:47 a.m. poster, the new manufacturing process has REDUCED margins. As Apple warned previously. It's more expensive to do it this way, but the cost

Look to MacWorld, MacNN, MacRumors and others for the full text of the press conference introducing the new design. It's a big step forwards in manufacturing that comes with a price.

With regards to whatever anon posted about Apple computers being expensive, where have you been? I first used a Mac in 1985. Yup, the 512K fat Mac. Apple doesn't dive for the bottom. Never has. Never will. For the alternative, see NorthGate, Zeos, Gateway and others.

BB

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

i have never had a mac before and was saving upfor the macbook pro with everything in it for a long time but now have to waight ecen longer. the thing i didnt get was why could they not do something useful to it like play and burn hd and blue ray disks improve the isight cam make the built in wirelsess better or something along those lines

Posted by: Anonymous | October 25, 2008 2:38 AM | Report abuse

Testing - comments should be fixed :-)

Posted by: misschatter | October 26, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

You can't put a monetary value on how the laptop feels because there is no monetary value in it. What feels good to some people (touchpads on laptops) feels downright offensive to others. There is no monetary value gained with a laptop that feels good, you just feel good about it. I don't buy a laptop to feel good though, I buy to do stuff. Doing stuff can easily be measured, can it or can't it? Then when you factor in the price of a Mac and the fact that I really dislike the design choices made with the Mac (limiting usability by not including a point-stick, let the user disable the one s/he doesn't want to use), the MacBook just never wins my dollars when it's time to buy a laptop. Pricepoint matters, and Apple cost too much $$$

Posted by: CharlesLD | October 27, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Immediate price matters to some, but you also have to look at it from the perspective of how many years down the road you have to replace the laptop. My experience is that the apples I have owned have greatly outlasted the PCs in terms of functionality. The Apples also seem to stand up better to heavier use (although this is not always the case, as the computer I am on right now is a 2.5 year old MacBook Pro that I am going to have to replace the logic board on for the third time this coming month). Also recent problems with hardrive failures on Macbooks and macbook pro's were unnerving to hear about. I would rather spend $2000 dollars now for a product I can continue to use for upwards of 5 years versus less than $1000 that I would have to replace in only 2. Plus I also don't mind spending a little extra for something aesthetically pleasing and is made out of something besides cheap plastic that cracks and breaks easily.

Posted by: ThatGuy1 | October 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

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