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McCain wants new 'don't ask, don't tell' report

By Ed O'Keefe

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Sunday said the Pentagon should study how ending the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy would impact troop morale and battle effectiveness, instead of reporting to President Obama and lawmakers on how the Defense Department could lift the ban.

A Pentagon study group is preparing a study due Dec. 1 to Obama that concludes the military can lift the ban on gays serving openly in uniform with only minimal and isolated incidents of risk to the current war efforts, according to two sources familiar with the document who shared details last week with The Washington Post.

More than 70 percent of respondents to a survey sent to active-duty and reserve troops over the summer and cited in the report said the effect of lifting the gay ban would be positive, mixed or nonexistent, the sources said.

Several lawmakers have said they plan to read the Pentagon report before deciding how they would vote on lifting the ban. McCain, ranking member on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Sunday that he did not think the Senate should end the policy during the lame-duck session that begins this week.

"Once we get this study, we need to have hearings. And we need to examine it. And we need to look at whether it's the kind of study that we wanted," McCain said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press."

"It isn't, in my view, because I wanted a study to determine the effects of the repeal on battle effectiveness and morale," McCain said.

Gay rights groups who want the ban lifted blasted McCain's comments, calling him out of touch with a majority of Republicans who want the ban lifted.

"McCain has said he wanted to hear from rank-and-file troops. He has just heard loud and clear from them through the survey," said Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese. "But he doesn't like their answer -- and is stonewalling, trying to run out the clock on repeal by calling for congressional hearings."

"McCain is telling the Pentagon: Keep working until you produce the outcome I'm looking for," said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.

Leave your thoughts in the comments section below

By Ed O'Keefe  | November 14, 2010; 4:00 PM ET
Categories:  Congress, Military  
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Comments

I believe it's time for McCain to present all of his research that backs his stance. Of course it'll be nothing more than the usual superstition and mythical crap we've all heard (and debunked) before.

Posted by: bobbarnes | November 14, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

The only new study needed is of John McCain. Suggest that a disorder be codified in the DSM under Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder called "Homophobia in Geriatrics."

Posted by: geoffnich | November 14, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain is what my Australians friends and relatives would call a silly old duffer. Most military service people are young and have grown up with GLBT people in high school or elsewhere, and have no problem serving with them. 99% of GLBT have absolutely no interest in pursuing non-GLBT persons as potential sexual partners - why would we waste the effort when there are plenty of GLBT fish in the sea?

Senator McCain will continue to request further studies until one is published that concords with his world view. He needs to wake up and smell the roses.

If Israel, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, the Czech Republic, etc. etc. can have perfectly cohesive militaries with fully integrate GLBT enlisted persons and officers, why can't the USA? What is required is an appropriate anti-harassment policy that is gender neutral and strictly enforced, that's it. BTW when Canada got rid of DADT, they found that women service personnel were more likely to report sexual harassment because they were not longer afraid of being accused of being lesbian. That would be a significant step forward for the US military.

Posted by: MatthewinNYC | November 14, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

By definition heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex. In restrooms, dorm rooms, and military barracks, it’s a simple process to separate facilities to maintain the needed level of decorum and comfort between the sexes. However, homosexuality makes chaos out of this convention as separation, decorum and comfort disappear when it is not just opposites that attract.

Expecting straight soldiers to bunk and shower with gays is analogous to asking married women to routinely do the same with groups of strange men. Clearly, both are reprehensible, and Cindy McCain wouldn't let herself be put in that situation.

Consider the visceral loss in the midst of a war when the equivalent of Tokyo Rose goes on the air, taunting the troops about the despicable acts of their gay counterparts. Unit morale and cohesion disintegrates as the enemy wins a psychological battle with devastating consequences.

Posted by: Thorgood | November 14, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

It’s not the President, Generals or government behind disallowing gay rights – it’s the religious lunatics! Voodoooooooooooooooooooooo politics!

A special compliment to the discharged soldiers ... you are the finest soldiers indeed ... in a battle and a war much greater than you will ever know! A gay pilot may have saved the lives of nine US soldiers who just got killed.

The Right Honourable Prime Minister of Canada Jean Chretien told the Vatican that there was to be no cross erected over the Canadian Parliament buildings figuratively speaking; when the Pope demanded the Prime Minister go against gay rights. An Alberta bishop had the audacity to say that The Canadian Prime Minister would go to hell for going against the church. Such outrageous evil threats. The Right Honourable Prime Minister in return; basically told the Pope to go to Hell! The Honourable Irwin Cotler, Canadian Minister of Justice, stood for equal rights for the gay community. With reference to protecting the children: The Honourable Hedy Fry, member of the Canadian Liberal Parliament, who happens to be a doctor who delivered many babies; spoke eloquently to defend the rights of babies being born and stated that she was in fact defending their rights by speaking on behalf of equal rights for the children and youth of the future -- defending their integrity and dignity. Minority rights must be decided by a dignified judicial system and/or a compassionate government.

United States is supposedly fighting for democracy but within the U.S. they treat gays like secondary citizens. Being left-handed, black or being gay is just as natural. If blacks’ or women’s rights were cast to the masses to decide … then the majority or lunatic religious fringe in this case -- has the advantage to decide minority rights.

There is no scientific evidence to prove any of the cross related bogus elements of christianity. Civilization goes back more than 4 million years; 3,996,000 years before the Greeks, Romans and the Jews and 3,998,000 years pre-dating the myth of christianity which is a mere 2010 years old. In the year 300 AD when Emperor Constantine, who to some was the first pope; went on to fabricate & market Christianity - a fantasy - which turned out to be one of the most hateful & evil concoctions ever perpetrated on the world.

I am the son of a catholic father who never went to church and a protestant mother who took us to church and Sunday school. Onward christian soldiers; I think not. Such absolute drivel. To be manipulated by a santa claus; an easter bunny and worst of all a bogus cross?

Posted by: MacDonald1 | November 14, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

The pope is running a bigger fraud than Madoff’s $50 billion ripoff. Today’s evangelical extremists are like the nazis who cast others into ovens & are actually supremacists - who practice their bogus hocus pocus - and are trying to suppress and deprive others of their happiness and their legal rights in an open and proud society. Bring back the period when they threw the christians to the lions.

Einstein stated in a letter recently auctioned that the bible was a collection of primitive legends. He said believing in God was childish and he as a Jew is no different than another person and are not chosen by God. Do you want to be lambs at the slaughter or be wise and reject religious cultist manipulation? Mean & nasty; run by evil and bogus religious cults from Rome or wherever. Is this the world you want? The pope talks about ending prejudice and hate; what a hypocrite! Religion is a crutch for the insecure. Appreciate every day and if there is no tomorrow; then know that you were fortunate to have lived on this earth!

This bogus religious filth should be banned. It exists as a tax exempt structure which discriminates against human rights. The pope, bishops and mormons are cult members promoting discrimination against minorities. That bogus black book called the bible should be banned. Religion and the churches should now be exposed as a bigoted structure that gets away with hate mongering. Love between two guys or girls existed long before these cults existed. By enjoying their tax exempt status and benefits from the state it also puts churches at the mercy of the state; to be forced to adhere to the human rights laws. Religion is thriving like a cancerous growth on society that should be stopped in its tracks; outlawed & banned.

A great story pertains to a boy at a catholic school in Oshawa, Ontario who wanted to take his boyfriend to his school prom. The evil catholic school forbid this. A father of one of the boys is an employee with General Motors Canada and the courageous union leader Buzz Hargrove stood up for the boys’ rights. The boy took his case through the courts and because the evil catholic school was benefiting from government funding which demands equal rights void of discrimination; the judge ordered the school to allow the two young boys to attend together. Their limo arrived at their prom with adoring onlookers.

Tell them to take that cross and shove it where the sun don't shine and pay their taxes along the way before they take that cross down forever with its final station; extinction. It is written; so therefore it shall be? We are the chosen people? Such a wicked fantasy. To see the religious lunatics manipulate government and our lives is shameful.

Posted by: MacDonald1 | November 14, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

My father fought at the front on D-Day in Normandy … through the Battle of the Scheldt to Germany and grandfather was a Sgt. Major at Vimy. My Dad who was a catholic -- is alive today at 87 and doesn’t believe in santa claus -- an easter bunny or any of that bogus cross related filth.

Posted by: MacDonald1 | November 14, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

There have been gay men serving in the US military since George Washington's Continental Army. And in more recent times the same can be said for gay women. All that the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" will do is to makes it possible for gay men and women to be open about their sexuality in stead of living in fear of being found out and dismissed. As has been pointed out so often, nearly all of the USA's allies allow gays to serve openly ... and some of them brought-in the legislation during times of conflict (like the skirmishes in the Balkans).

Yes, in the UK the retired generals 'huffed and puffed' predicting the end of the world when gays were allowed to serve openly. But those actually serving adapted without any problems. It was much the same in Canada, Australia, Germany, France ... the list goes on.

Sen. McCain's stalling moves to prevent the USA from finally getting into the 21st century is, to us foreigners, proof that many American politicians have a disregard for basic human rights in their country, while preaching to other countries.

Posted by: MarkWindsor | November 14, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

of course, McCain wants to delay delay delay. He knows he is wrong. He knows that the facts are against him. He knows that history is against him. He knows that the majority of Americans are against him on this issue. But he also knows that the longer he delays the more gay people he hurts and the more points he wins with the rabid base he now has to court.

End DADT now. All the facts show that treating gay servicemembers equally will not harm morale. All the facts show that our natio0nal security needs the service of these brave people. Just say no to John McCain's demogoguery.

Posted by: mikhastur | November 14, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

OK. Conservatives like McCain wanted to wait to hear from the troops. Well, now they have spoken.
More than 70 percent of military respondents to a survey sent to active-duty and reserve troops over the summer and cited in the report said the effect of lifting the gay ban would be positive, mixed or nonexistent, the sources said.
SO....If serving side by side with homosexuals doesn't bother and overwhelming percentage of the troops
IT SHOULDN'T BOTHER MCCAIN or any other homophob.
Next thing they'll be wanting is a study on the affects of troops serving side by side with blacks, women, asians and mexicans.

Posted by: naksuthin | November 14, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

What would expect from one of the worst-ever voting records on Veteran issues. Yeah - McCain -"War Hero". More like war enabler and liar about his concern for the veterans.

During the 2008 campaign I wanted to puke every time I heard him talk about his great support of veterans. He had this obscene dishonest routine of pulling out Washington's speech on the importance of tending to returning warriors.

I guess if you are the returning son and grandson of admirals - you just don't see the problems in the system that everyone else who went through war did.

If you doubt my word on his pathetic pig-headed letter - just have a look yourself
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53270&type=category&category=66

That summation does not yet reflect his most recent "D" grade from the IAVA, but his history of urinating on Vet.s is long and disturbing.

Posted by: TPartier | November 14, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

I support Senator McCain's position on gays, minorities and women not being allowed in the military until further studies are created showing it is a bad idea.

Posted by: srsd300 | November 14, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

I support Senator McCain's position on gays, minorities and women not being allowed in the military until further studies are created showing it is a bad idea.

Posted by: srsd300 | November 14, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

No Judge, and I mean NO JUDGE can change a law or find it to be unconstatutional once it has passed by congress in Washington or by state legislaters. The will of the people is thr surpreme law. Also because of the Constitution in Article 6 paragraph 2 states:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

I quote it again !

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby !!

What part of the constitution don't they understand ????

Posted by: coinguy1945 | November 15, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

@coinguy1945 wrote:
"No Judge, and I mean NO JUDGE can change a law or find it to be unconstatutional once it has passed by congress in Washington or by state legislaters. The will of the people is thr surpreme law."
.
You wish ;-) you talk about 'supreme law'. Well 'supreme law' routinely gets overturned by the, wait for it, 'Supreme Court'. The will of the people can't invalidate basic human rights as you seem to indicate. Hence Jim Crow laws being overturned, voting tests being overturned, and numerous other examples.
.
We specifically don't have 'supreme law'; that was called a 'monarchy'. Which we sorta rebelled against, remember?
.
you talk of the Constitution with:
.
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby !!"
.
Notice the 'and' that says 'the Constitution AND the laws'. BOTH are the 'supreme law' of the land and as such the former allows judges to rule on whether the latter violates the former.

Posted by: rpixley220 | November 15, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Look people unless you are a homophobe, there is no reason to have a don't ask don't tell. The REAL issue here is how to organize and assimilate.
You have 2 options. a 3rd barracks, facilities for gay/lesbian OR all co-ed.
Have a problem with that? Have a problem with guys hopping in the women's shower but not with a gay man hoping into a non gay man's shower? Then you need to rethink your logic.

Posted by: glbertag | November 15, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Thorgood said "Expecting straight soldiers to bunk and shower with gays is analogous to asking married women to routinely do the same with groups of strange men. Clearly, both are reprehensible"

Apparently you are oblivious to the obvious and are not in the military. There are gays in the military and in the bunkhouses and in the showers and you know what, our generation does not care! As a gay person I could care less about looking at or hitting on a straight guy. I am in a committed relationship of 12 years.

Why is it for some reason that one thinks that gays do not already exist in all these situations and their units already know it???

Leave the current military to the current soldiers. You had your time when you did not even want blacks in your units which I find reprehensible. Let us decide if our morale will be hurt or not.

Posted by: Vegas2 | November 15, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

@coinguy1945 wrote:
"No Judge, and I mean NO JUDGE can change a law or find it to be unconstatutional once it has passed by congress in Washington or by state legislaters. The will of the people is thr surpreme law."

I bet you were the one who blocked black students from integrated schools. The will of the people would have stopped that. The courts exist to protect all people including the rights of those who cannot otherwise protect themselves from the will of the majority.

Posted by: Vegas2 | November 15, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

@coinguy1945 wrote:
"No Judge, and I mean NO JUDGE can change a law or find it to be unconstatutional once it has passed by congress in Washington or by state legislaters. The will of the people is thr surpreme law."

I bet you were the one who blocked black students from integrated schools. The will of the people would have stopped that. The courts exist to protect all people including the rights of those who cannot otherwise protect themselves from the will of the majority.

the courts look at people and the constitutional rights they are entitled to. Maybe you do not agree with everything they decide, but that is the point. The law is blind to the whims and wills of the people as it should be, otherwise prejudice would rule the land

Posted by: Vegas2 | November 15, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

DADT is the following:

I have my eyes closed!!! I see no gay people cause they cant say they are gay people! But they can fight, save lifes, be heros, fight for the country....but they are not gay because I say so!!!

But one day, that medal of honor winner that saved your sons life will step forward and state that he is gay. I guess at that moment it matters not the person he is, it only matters how you label him

Posted by: Vegas2 | November 15, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain needs to retire. He has had his time.We must move on in 21st Century. Gay people in the Military are not the issue him.Its the wingnuts who support him. He has to please them in order to stay in power.
He is a prime reason why we need term limits. Of course he is not the only one. The house should serve 4 terms & the Senate only 2 terms. That way we would get a fresh look at America over two Presidential terms. McCain needs to take a rest over DADT. Enough talk about a law that is unconstitutional. While their at it get rid of DOMA and vote in ENDA.
Enough of all this. It makes a laughing stock of us over the world.
I served with gay people in the USAF for 17 years and never had a problem with them.

Posted by: larry418 | November 17, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

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