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The 'Birther' Brouhaha

Speculation about the true citizenship of President Obama has resurfaced in recent days, in part thanks to this viral video. Despite a widely circulated copy of his certificate of live birth, notices in two Honolulu newspapers, and other evidence, some won't let the issue die. Fanning the flame are commentators Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh, who have both suggested the question remains unresolved, and 10 House Republicans, who have co-sponsored a bill that would require presidential candidates to provide a copy of their original birth certificate.

By Mike McPhate  |  July 24, 2009; 8:59 AM ET
 
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Comments

I can't believe the willful ignorance of some people. This kind of behavior must help them pay their bills.

There must be a special circle in hell for such.

Posted by: goodgovernment | July 24, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Wanting to see his actual birth certificate sure is crazy, alright.

Posted by: jimtreacher | July 24, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Wanting to see his actual birth certificate sure is crazy, alright.

Posted by: jimtreacher | July 24, 2009 12:16 PM
_________________________________________

Not really, but ignoring his actual birth certificate and about 10 other things that proves that he is a citizen is.

Posted by: Independent4tw | July 24, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Anyone that refuses to believe something after it is proved time and time again is a moron.

If you think the world was created in 7 days, less then 10k years ago, you are a moron.

If you think that the world is flat, you are a moron.

If you think that Elvis is alive, you are a moron.

If you think that everyone in Hawaii, everyone in Chicago, everyone in the government, everyone in McCain's campaign, everyone in Clinton's campaign, and everyone in the previous administration including George Bush is lying to protect Obama, YOU ARE A MORON.

It doesn't get more simple then this.

Posted by: Independent4tw | July 24, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

On the surface, it seems silly to question the COLB and the birth notices, but please step back and look at some important facts.

#1) Those birth notices were generated by the Hawaiian Health Department and sent to the local newspapers. According to a newsroom operator at the Hawaiian Star Bulletin - "We don't have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System. This is how we've always done it."

#2) In 1961 Hawaii, it was possible to obtain a birth certificate based on the affidavit of a family member. This is not a new problem in Hawaii as famously, Sun Yat-sen (emperor of china) was able to acquire a Hawaiian birth certificate via affadavit despite being born in China. http://www.scribd.com/doc/9830547/Sun-Yatsen-Certification-of-Live-Birth-in-Hawaii

Given the above two facts, it is *possible* that Obama was not born in a Hawaiian hospital and that his birth was registered via affadavit at the health department.

Consider the possibility (as some stories go) that Obama's mother was off to Kenya to go after her husband (who was already married) and she ends up having the baby in Kenya. When she calls home to tell the folks, her mother, who works for a lawyer is concerned that the baby have US citizenship. So she takes care of it and gets a birth certificate. It doesn't require a grand conspiracy that some day he may want to be president. It only requires a concerned grandmother who doesn't want to see her grandson be a Kenyan citizen.

Did this happen - not very likely. Could it have happened - certainly. If it did happen, would the COLB that Obama has shown indicate it - no. If it did happen, would the original long form record indicate it - yes.

This is the reason that intelligent birthers would like to see the original long-form birth certificate. And remember, we wanted to see it well over a year ago - way before the election. It's Obama that has spent, according to the FEC some months ago, over 1.3 million dollars in legal fees to get theses cases dismissed.

Would releasing the long-form original record satisy everybody - no. But it would satisfy many of us, and it would turn those who remain steadfast into a true fringe group.

I would like to ask that if you wish to attack me for being crazy, please start with my two facts listed above. Please consider that given those facts, the COLB provided by Obama is not iron-clad proof of Hawaiian birth.

Thank you

Posted by: Facts_Only_Please | July 24, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Personal History of a Birther

How about a little personal history for what is behind me being a “birther”

I read the “Warren Report” and I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman.

I have never seen a flying saucer, even though I am a pilot and an air traffic control man.

I don’t believe that “Big Foot” exists.

I think Islamic terrorists took down the World Trade Center.

I don’t believe FEMA is planning to round up citizens and put them in concentration camps, and I don’t think swine flu is an international conspiracy.

The Lock Ness Monster is a fantasy.

I am certain that the Apollo mission actually went to the moon.

There are no more missing aircraft and ships in the so called “Bermuda Triangle” than in any other part of the earth with equivalent traffic.

After having reviewed the REAL science, I am convinced that Global Warming is a huge scam.

I have a PhD, and am in private practice as a psychotherapist, so more than likely I am not crazy.

I am a life time member of Mensa, so I am not stupid. Membership # 1061487

The guiding principles for my professional research for articles and books I write are the usual protocols of epistemology, scientific methodology, and rules of logic and the rules of evidence.

However, I am firmly convinced that AKA Obama is not eligible to be POTUS, and here is why:

If you read the articles at the link, and review the citations at the embedded links, you will be “literate” about the facts of the “eligibility” story and will be able to inform the public objectively.

AKA Obama Fans: All together now – say OMG!!

http://www.thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html

Posted by: AristotleTheHun | July 24, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

For those who refuse to believe the truth -- that is that Obama was born when and where and as an American -- well, you cannot reason with irrational, unreasonable people.

If these "reich-wing" nuts were capable of intelligent, rational decision making, they would not be "reich-wing" nuts.

'Nuff said.

Posted by: abby0802 | July 24, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The single biggest draw on air has just been dropped; CNN called the birther issue "dead." More media censorship. The Communist handbook takes a small number of people to criticize something like religion or birthers and make " the sane appear insane and the insane act as the world's psychiatrist" (Mind-Washing in America by former Senator Jack Tenney.

:RACISM comes in many forms. A RACIST overlooks qualities of a person because of race. Blacks who overlook Barack Obama’s secrecy in refusing to show his identity, school records, passport, full birth certificate with details of birth etc. that would prove if he is eligible to be president simply because he is black, are racists. White or other ethnic people who challenge the president as ineligible for what is already known are not racists because Barack Obama acknowledges his father was a student from Kenya and he was adopted by an Indonesian and became a citizen there. That gives him divided loyalties and dual citizenship even if his mother could have bestowed US citizenship and he was born in Hawaii. Facts must be dealt with. The US Constitution requires full allegiance to the USA. Racism is dangerous for the nation.

Blacks who overlook the Communist dictatorship action of Barack Obama’s team getting Major Cook fired and revoking his military orders for questioning the president’s eligibility instead of providing proof that Barack Obama is eligible are racists and dangerous to the nation. He is using the same tactics of Communism, making religion or opposition look foolish and making those who ignore blatant dangers appear sane.

He calls us to fight against lies and deception; and when all we have to do is email the president to tell him we want this controversy ended, we will be judge harshly if we fail. We will indeed be a nation of racists..

Posted by: MarieDevine | July 24, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The greatest thing about the birther movement is that the birthers spend a ton of energy chasing their own tails, energy that they could have otherwise been spent reproducing.

Posted by: tblasko1 | July 24, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama is an alien life form from the planet Nxyyggh. That is why he has never released documents proving that he is a human being.

Posted by: sleepingdog | July 24, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to acknowledge MarieDevine for ably demonstrating what this entire issue boils down to - the fear-mongering, abject harrassment of the first African-American to occupy the White House based on the complete disbelief and horror from some quarters that a black man could ever be elected. When I first applied for a U.S. passport, the "Notification of Birth Registration" form issued by the hospital to my mother in 1963 was deemed unacceptable proof of citizenship because it was not state-issued. The certified copy of my birth record issued to me by the State of California Bureau of Vital Statistics in 1994 looked exactly like the form issued to President Obama by the State of Hawaii, and satisfied State Dept. requirements for proof of citizenship. With this document, I was able to obtain my passport. Interestingly, I was never required to submit a birth record to get a driver's license or to register for college. I've never even been asked for a letter of authenticity from the Republican governor of my state. Conspiracy? If I had to rise to "birther" standards in order to prove my citizenship - not to mention my LOYALTY - I'd be up a creek.

Posted by: TCPLA | July 24, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse


Mr. President would you please put this to rest. You can produce a certified copy of your birth certificate (order one from Hawaii) and submitt it to some official government agancy for verification and publishing. Otherwise future history books will offer this up as a question that you refused to answer.

Once this is done, we can get on the the next issue at hand, whatever that might be.

Posted by: vstanford | July 24, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I really do not understand why people persist with the dead issue. Seriously. The only thing I can think of is that these people are hoping so hard that some kind of miracle "gotcha" can be found to get him out of office that they are not using the sense that God gave them. Why would they think that so many people are in a conspiracy over this? What do they think it will gain them anyway? Give it up!

And to answer why he doesn't do more to "clear up" this issue: it HAS been cleared up. Any more dealing with it just lends credence to people who don't frankly deserve any more attention.

I mean think about it - suppose you had proven your identity and citizenship as far as the law requires. How would you feel about strangers demanding MORE and MORE proof over and over? Do you think YOU would owe them the time of day? This is the president of the US folks. Get used to it and leave this stupid issue in the past.

Posted by: catherine3 | July 24, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

With 258 votes in, only 46% think the existing COLB and newspaper clippings are enough. Looks like 54% think something else. I notice that the folks at the post didn't ask the simple question in the poll - Do you think Obama should release his original birth record?

I am honestly surprised that more of you aren't mad at this man because he pledged openness and transparency in government but finds it necessary to spend 1.3 million dollars fighting the release of his original birth record and his college transcripts and travel records. He has sealed his entire life and many of you don't care. This man is the worst President this country has ever seen. In 6 months he has done more damage than FDR did in his entire presidency.

Posted by: Facts_Only_Please | July 24, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Folks, the only shred of affirmative "evidence" (a term that can only be employed in the loosest sense) that the birther movement has ever proffered in support of their Kenya-born conspiracy theory re Obama consists of a question during an interview conducted through an interpreter with a relative of Obama's in Kenya as to whether Obama was born there. After the relative initially replied "Yes," it was determined that a crucial mistake had been made in the translation; when the question was then re-asked correctly, the relative replied "No." That's the sum basis for the birther movement's claim, and it's so flimsy as to defy credibility.

Another factor the birthers fail to take into account is explaining how Obama's mother could have managed to travel all the way from Hawaii to Kenya in the final stages of pregnancy, given the arduous nature of international travel 48 years ago (not that it would be all that easy a trip even now). Does anyone know whether a woman about to deliver a child would even have been allowed to fly? What sort of air service was available then on those routes? Wouldn't the last leg of the trip from Nairobi to Mr. Obama's native village have been too hard? And what reasonable motivation would young Mrs. Obama have had for wanting to give birth in a primitive village, rather than in a modern hospital in Honolulu?

Further, why has the birther movement failed to produce a single witness to such a theoretical journey in either direction? Surely a young white woman hugely pregnant en route to Kenya, or with a new-born infant on the return trip, would have been highly conspicuous and memorable, especially if she were in the company of a young Black man back in an era when interracial marriage was far less common than now.

But the birthers aren't gonna let logic and reason interfere with their paranoid racist fantasies.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 24, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

This controversy is being fueled by a bunch of racist nut cases who will never accept a black man as the legitimate President of the United States, no matter how much proof he produces.

Posted by: Domermom | July 24, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

i am very happy to have a kenyan president!

Posted by: peterhoneyman | July 24, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Facts_Only_Please
With 258 votes in, only 46% think the existing COLB and newspaper clippings are enough.

OTOH, only 13% (out of 247) say "Nothing. Ever." Most of those 54% picked snarky answers which are consistent with not accepting the birther line.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 24, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw "Anyone that refuses to believe something after it is proved time and time again is a moron."

See Saul Alinsky RULE 5:

Ridicule is mans most potent weapon. There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

(Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear. I can remember when liberals were nice people who were just wrong about most things. Now they are wrong and nasty.)

The “progressive movement” has shown itself to be a cesspool of intolerant bullies. The trademark personal insult, name calling, ridicule, and ad hominem attacks characterize the debate style of Obama’s people.

That tactic has worked quite well on the ignorant and those who value feeling more than reason.

Uninformed voted Obama –
http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2008/12/uninformed-voted-obama-informed-voted.html

This is not new, transformational politics. This is the rise of a New American Fascism.
You might consult an article on this blog entitled. Spot false arguments and make strong ones.

http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2008/11/spot-false-arguments-and-make-strong.html

Posted by: AristotleTheHun | July 24, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

AristotleTheHun
Ridicule is mans most potent weapon.
This is the rise of a New American Fascism.

Pot, meet kettle. You just blew your credibility.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 24, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Like I said Nosy_Parker, the Post was afraid to put up a simple straight forward poll.

A poll was taken on June 6-10 and here are the cross tabs for the pertinent question:

http://wenzelstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/wnd-x-tabs-q12-june-2009.pdf

As you see 41.5% of Americans think Obama should release all of his records. Another 8% are "troubled" by the Birth cert questions. To be honest I don't like these questions either - to many choices, but this isn't a fringe movement.

Posted by: Facts_Only_Please | July 24, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, but this is nothing more than trying to make illegimtimate the black man who happens to be president. Racism pure and simple. These people are no different from Holocaust deniers.

Posted by: latichever | July 24, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Okay, birthers...

You haven't shown ONE birth certificate from Kenya, real OR fake.

You haven't shown ONE birth certificate from Indonesia.

You haven't shown ONE adoption decree from Indonesia.

You haven't shown ONE document that indicates Obama had any kind of Kenyan citizenship.

You haven't shown ONE document that indicates Obama had any kind of Indonesian citizenship.

Obama, on the other hand, has provided documentation you conveniently choose to discount WITHOUT PROVIDING ONE SINGLE DOCUMENT OF YOUR OWN to prove your cause.

If you're so sure of your claims, YOU prove it. In American, the accuser has to prove his or her case. Go ahead. Where are YOUR documents?

Posted by: privacy1st | July 24, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

privacy1st, you make an excellent point. The only "evidence" the birthers have is a single mistranslated flimsy question/answer exchange (subsequently corrected to reveal the opposite answer) in an interview with a relative of Obama's in his father's native village.

Re the onerousness of such a journey on a late-term pregnant woman, consider that even nowadays, i.e., in the jet era, the shortest journey available from Honolulu to Nairobi takes well over a day (28:20) and costs nearly $2,500; one can only imagine how long, arduous and expensive (in dollars adjusted for inflation) the trip would have been in summer of 1961, if the birthers' conspiracy theory is correct. But logic has nothing to do with their hysteria.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 24, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Barack Hussein Obama is a trained Constitutional Lawyer. He knows what Natural Born American means. He knows his own Father was not an American. To be Natural Born one has to have both Parents American Citizens at his birth and has to be born on American Soil. Miss any of these three (3) requirements and one is not Natural Born. He knows he is not Natural Born just like our founding fathers knew they not Natural Born when they added Natural Born to our Constitution. They too had non American Parents and some were not born on American Soil. They added "unless you are an American Citizen at the time of the adoption of this Constitution." This allowed our founding fathers that were born outside the boundaries of the 13 colonies or had non American citizen parents to become President. Obama does not have this language because it became moot after the Constitution was adopted back in 1787. Obama is not Natural Born, cant be. His daddy's British Citizenship also caused him to be born a British Citizen at birth due to the British Nationalism Act of 1948. Again a British Citizen from birth can't be a Natural Born American. What more do you need to get this farce.

Posted by: old1 | July 24, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

old1, only one parent has to be an American, in Obama's case his mother was.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 24, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

This controversy is being fueled by a bunch of racist nut cases who will never accept a black man as the legitimate President of the United States, no matter how much proof he produces.

Posted by: Domermom | July 24, 2009 5:48 PM

*******************************************

This sums it up perfectly ...

Posted by: gitouttahere | July 25, 2009 1:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm constantly amazed at how stupid the American people are. The scumbags that keep floating this story are just catering to the lowest common denominator of "angry white man" republican's who always seem to vote against their own best interest.

They keep harping about the "longform" birth certificate. I don't have a "longform" nor does my wife, my kids, my sister or brother. He's shown his birth certificate, the announcement in the paper,
nurses who took care of his mother after he was born and the proof goes on and on. If you're one of these people who think Obama isn't a citizen, next time you look in the mirror ask yourself this: "Why am I such a dumbass loser?".

Posted by: blarsen1 | July 25, 2009 2:12 AM | Report abuse

So what is the end game here? Do we drag President Obama out of the White House? Do we take his family and kick them to the curve. Do we duck walk him out in chains or maybe get Officer Crowley to arrest him? Tell us OH Great and POWERFUL WIZARDS OF "Birthers" What is the final outcome of your search for the "truth"?
OH I KNOW, CAN WE HAVE A DO OVER ELECTION? HEY AND MAYBEEEEEE THIS TIME SARAH AND HER BUNCH CAN WIN IT ALL!!! And then when the proud gun toting white woman takes charge we can all go back to being sooo happy! Gosh darn it I think you birthers are on to something here!! HEEEE HHAAAWWWWWW!!!!! YOU BETCHA!!

Posted by: Luraybeat | July 25, 2009 3:13 AM | Report abuse

This post is offensive. The middle option sounds like a line from a bad racist joke:

"Tie him up, throw him in the water. If he floats, he's American."

He's a sitting President, for crying out loud. The Post owes its readers and the President an apology.

Posted by: floydearlsmith | July 25, 2009 7:15 AM | Report abuse

In my opinion Obama has never been properly vetted. He has refused to produce a long form birth certificate and many other docs that presidents routinely provide. This creates the notion he is hiding something. Questions about his citizenship and natural born status could be resolved easily if he wasn't preventing it. He's also spent over a mil on legal defense. It doesn't look right and Congress should resolve the issue.

Posted by: david08022 | July 25, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

One further comment: For those of you who think this issue has been cleared up consider this. Remember the worker who accessed McCain/Clinton/Obama's passport during the primary? Clearly he was after Obama's file. Once caught he was being interviewed by either the FBI or CIA. Well, I read a newspaper account recently that early in the morning he was found dead in his car in DC with a bullet in his head in front of a church. As I recall they said he was shot execution style. Does that make you think? Thank you.

Posted by: david08022 | July 25, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

A simple thing to do,would be for Obama to release the Long Vault Version of his Birth Certificate. In Hawaii,the Long Vault Version of your BC,can be Amended. The COLB that Obama has produced,will not show any amendments,if any were made,there is a reason for Obama to be spending lots of money to keep this documnet hidden from America's Voters.

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/newbirthcert.html

Posted by: thefanisback | July 25, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I really wish the focus on Obama would shift from "whether or not he is a natural born citizen" to the real issues with his implementation of "pay-to-play" Chicago-style politics to a national level.

Obama is following Benito Mussolini's playbook from 1920's-1930's Italy, and using Corporatism to put all citizens under the thumb of oppressive government.

AIG, Goldman Sachs ... all making HUGE profits recently, and paying HUGE bonuses. Where's the righteous indignation now that Obama has other targets, such as the nationalization of the health care industry?

ObamaCare - think of the Department of Motor Vehicles running your doctor's office or the emergency room at a hospital. That is, unless, you are old. Then forget being given care to extend your life. Attend one of ObamaCare's "Methods To Deal With End-Of-Life" seminars to find a hospice near you where you can go to just ... die.

Yep ... there are PLENTY of other things to focus on rather than the Manchurian President's birth certificate.

However ... the White House is happy to encourage you to think of the triviality rather than reality.

Posted by: HowardBeale | July 25, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

when i get a drivers license i have to show 3 methods to prove i an a us citizen, a birth certificate with watermarks original no copy's a ssi, card a passport, or a county id,and a bill to prove my residents if i go to the social security office i need a original birth certificate and photo id that goes with the VA hospitals to get benefits or to get a passport the way i see it , how could he not be here legally he would have to show documents to prove who he was. and to get his government id the democratic party would not support him if they had doughs that he would loose them the elections

Posted by: getsix1 | July 25, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

If you read the articles at the link, and review the citations at the embedded links, you will be “literate” about the facts of the “eligibility” story and will be able to inform the public objectively.

AKA Obama Fans: All together now – say OMG!!

http://www.thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html
Posted by: AristotleTheHun | July 24, 2009 2:26 PM

*****************************************

The only thing you haven't addressed is why birthers are incapable of articulating an argument in regards to Obama's citizenship without pasting a link? If you actually read the link, why can't you lay out the argument on your own?

Posted by: shoegal_69 | July 25, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

An open letter to our ... ahem ... "leaders" in Washington:

Dear Politicians,

We have heard of the wonders of what is so commonly referred to as "ObamaCare".

It is interesting to note that your proposed legislation exempts you and your families from taking this wünder-insurance.

Please explain.

Better yet - please do a great service to this country and perform the following:

(1) Enact Congressional TERM LIMITS. Mandatory retirement at age 65. NO EXCEPTIONS, TEDDY.

(2) Don't even contemplate the repeal of term limits for the Presidency. Be real. We all know that's a bug Hugo put in Obama's ear.

(3) Finally ... Go on the ObamaCare plan for the remainder of Obama's presidency then come back and tell us how your experiment worked. If it worked well, then we (your employers) will consider it.

After watching the oh-so-stellar job the US Government has done with Medicare, Medicaid, and running the Veterans Administration (gee - a year for your paperwork to be processed???) and by how well Government has "created or saved" 3 million jobs ... please do us all a favor and stay out of our doctors' offices.

Posted by: HowardBeale | July 25, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

our government cant keep secrets and if it were true that obma was not born in the USA the information that he was not here legally would be worth millions someone would have cashed in the media would have paid any amount for it i do believe that to take a a government office you should have to show original birth certificates but again i believe he should not have to show it to anyone he does not want to show it to its personal information and i don't think he has to put it on display there is no law that says he has to

Posted by: getsix1 | July 25, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"You can produce a certified copy of your birth certificate (order one from Hawaii) and submitt it to some official government agancy for verification and publishing."

actually he can't Hawaiian law allows only for the issuance of a certificate of live berth (colb) which is a compilation of date entered from the original birth certificate issued by the hospital
the colb serves as the official birth certificate and when issued comes with a state seal and signature

Posted by: pakurilecz | July 25, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Why should the president of the united states have to stoop to showing his birth certificate to placate a bunch tin foil hatters?
That would be beneath the dignity of his office.
If the officials of his state say he is a citizen then, that is the case. Why would they conspire with Obama to cover up anything for him?
What this is is a bunch of far rightwingers who cannot deal with the fact that the republicans hoped for thousand year reich...er, rule as Rove promised is over.
The conservative movement is waning and the pendulum has swung away from them.
Their time in the sun is done.
They cannot accept this and therefore are desperate for anything to cling to the illusion that they are still relevant and that they can remove a democratic president from office.
Nice try.

Posted by: vwcat | July 25, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

David08022 wrote:
Clearly he was after Obama's file. Once caught he was being interviewed by either the FBI or CIA. Well, I read a newspaper account recently that early in the morning he was found dead in his car in DC with a bullet in his head in front of a church.

Maybe it was Vince Foster...you conservatives are so unreal.
You know, Obama ran for two years for the presidency in the most contested primary in recent history against clinton.
With all the Clinton's resources dont' you think if Obama was not a citizen they would have found out?
Or at least the republican party, which was desperate for anything to defeat Obama???
Get real and grown up.

Posted by: vwcat | July 25, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

"Why should the president of the united states have to stoop to showing his birth certificate to placate a bunch tin foil hatters?"

***************************************

The teabag shaking 20% ers have been reduced to 10% ers.

Posted by: shoegal_69 | July 25, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

"Barack Hussein Obama is a trained Constitutional Lawyer. He knows what Natural Born American means. He knows his own Father was not an American. To be Natural Born one has to have both Parents American Citizens at his birth and has to be born on American Soil."

*******************************************

If only there was an invention to look up information to see how many presidents had one foreign born parent. Oh that's right..GOOGLE

"Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) is the only president born of two immigrants, both Irish. Presidents with one immigrant parent are Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809), whose mother was born in England, James Buchanan (1857-1861) and Chester Arthur (1881-1885), both of whom had Irish fathers, and Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) and Herbert Hoover (1929-1933), whose mothers were born respectively in England and Canada."

Posted by: shoegal_69 | July 25, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Even if the birthers were to get the long form birth certificate or whatever it's called, they'd still claim that it was a forgery, or that Obama bribed someone, or some that Bill Ayers was somehow involved.

These people suffer from racism and paranoia, and only a shrink can help them.

Posted by: menaman | July 25, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

None of this would be an issue if Obama would release anything besides the "certificate of live birth" which even non-citizens can obtain. The lengths to which he has gone to suppress the release of things like his college applications that would lay this issue to rest is evidence enough that something is up. It is just a matter of time.

Posted by: jlanc | July 25, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

To judge by his foolish ideas and extremist ideology, there is little reason to believe that Oboobma is from this planet.

Posted by: zjr78xva | July 25, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

In response to:"#2) In 1961 Hawaii, it was possible to obtain a birth certificate based on the affidavit of a family member. This is not a new problem in Hawaii as famously, Sun Yat-sen (emperor of china) was able to acquire a Hawaiian birth certificate via affadavit despite being born in China. http://www.scribd.com/doc/9830547/Sun-Yatsen-Certification-of-Live-Birth-in-Hawaii"
____________________________________

At one time all states allowed individuals to get birth certificates based on affidvits from family members and others because so many people born in the U.S. did not have birth certificates. My mother, born in South Carolina in 1931 didn't have a birth certificate. It was not until she applied for Social SEcurity in 1993 that she had to obtain a birth certificate, which she obtained via the affidivit process.

Sun Yat-sen was born in 1866, long before states started issuing birth certificates and died in 1925 -- 34 years before Hawaii became as U.S. state. So it is not inconceivable that errors were made during that time in a U.S. territory.

By the time Obama was born in 1961, states had systems in place to issue birth certificates to all children born within their jurisdictions. There was no need to obtain a birth certificate via the affidavit process for a child born in that state in 1961. In addition, you had to be over 1 year old to get a birth certificate via the affidavit process. Note: Obama's certificate was registered when he was 4 days old. Also, an affidavit birth certificate for a child born in a foreign country to an an American citizen would indicate his birthplace, not the state where the birth certificate was obtained.

I know this won't put this issue to rest for anyone who wants to believe Obama is not a U.S. citizen, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Posted by: DCNative69 | July 25, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

DC Native,

Your argument is interesting if rather far-fetched. Your facts seem a little dubious when you start claiming that Sun Yat Sen was the emperor of China. He was the founder of the nationalist independence movement. Why do you think that the Chinese wouldn't know where there emperor was born? Obviously in the palace of eternal peace or whatever it's called.

Other than that you and others seem to have forgotten the John McCain was not born on US territory, but in Panama. A special rider was attached to a bill just to get round the problem that people claim a President must be born within the US. It would seem that McCain as a son of a father serving in the military should also be allowed to run for President.

Not being native born myself I've seen the rules on citizenship get amended over the years but I presume as my father was not on active duty as a soldier I would be excluded from my excellent chance at the White House.

That Limbauch is going on and on about the subject doesn't surprise me. What can anyone expect from a broken record.

CB in Hamburg

Posted by: chrisbrown12 | July 25, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

If he is not a US Citizen then let's change the constitution to allow a non- citizen to be a president as such a requirement seems illogical anyways....

Why would you want to restrict an outstanding intellect from becoming a president just b/c (s)he in not born in the states....

Posted by: kashifc | July 25, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Actually, ChrisBrown12, I was not claiming that Sun Yat-sen was emperor of China. I copied someone else's comment so I could address it.

Did you see my "In reply to:"

Posted by: DCNative69 | July 25, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Woohoo the 'birther' movement gains momentum, celebs join in recently....
We are now in his 6th month within the 4 year term, and he has shamefully not shown the document yet, he actually spends millions to hide it, hmmmm.
The more he waits, the bigger the mess, the bigger the embarassment, the bigger the constitutional crisis, the bigger his prosecution for fraud

Posted by: edla67 | July 26, 2009 2:46 AM | Report abuse

One irony in this situation is that there's a more substantive question on this issue about John McCain than Barack Obama. McCain was indisputably born in the Panama Canal Zone, which spawned enough of a question about whether that meant he was not a "natural-born citizen" that the U.S. Senate weighed in with a resolution declaring that he was. That resolution was sponsored by Claire McCaskill and co-sponsored by one Republican and four other Democrats, including then-Senators Obama and Clinton, who obviously realized the question was a silly one and had the good sense to put it to rest.

The central takeaway from this ludicrous movement and so many other attacks from the American right is that they will stop at nothing to challenge and undermine the legitimacy of the Obama presidency.


Posted by: Shockedandamazed | July 26, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

edla67, Barack Obama provided the same level of proof as other American-born Presidential candidates. Those who challenge it have no reasonable evidence to support their claim to the contrary (just a mistranslated Q&A with a woman from Obama's father's native village, which got cleared up as soon as the question was re-asked correctly).

In our system of laws, the burden of proof resides with the birthers to demonstrate if they can provide substantive evidence that Obama's birth certificate is not accurate re the location of his birth. Thus far they've failed to.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 26, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

For Facts_Only_Please:
There are a lot of people here who claim "show us the long form and that's the end of it." The long form is by definition a medical record because it contains vital medical information. I guess that Obama doesn't want his medical records all over the internet would be the most likely reason not to show the long form. Even if he released it, I suspect the next question would be "Why hasn't Obama produced his doctor?"

In your example you list a BC by affidavit. This is not a COLB. Those are completely different forms. If Obama released an affidavit, you might have a point.

For the record, officials from the State of Hawaii (which have access) have verified his long form. http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html. So that state of Hawaii says he was born there. That should close the case but it won't be for some.

For old1:
Your knowledge of citizenship is incorrect. First of all, the Constitution does not explicitly define "natural born". SCOTUS has had to define it over the years. The precedent is US v Wong Kim Ark (1898) which many interpret that "born in the US" = "natural born". SCOTUS has not ruled differently in the last 100+ years.

As for British citizenship, the US recognizes multiple citizenships for children and multiple citizenship does not negate natural born status. Upon coming an adult, Obama would have had to renounce his US citizenship to continue his Kenyan citizenship (Kenya became independent after his birth). Even if he did that, that does not change the fact that he was a natural born citizen at birth.

Posted by: AverageBob | July 26, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Here are the documents I would like to see:
1) Original Birth Certificate
2) Law School Application (to see if Foreign Student Aide was applied for and/or received.

I would like to see records searched to see if Barry Sotero (President Obama) ever received aide as a foreign student. That would settle the case - if he used the system to get free or reduced education, or grants aimed at foreign students, then I believe he sold his "Birthright" for what was expedient at that moment, never knowing it could come back to haunt him.

Posted by: jeremydozier | July 26, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

It is not so much his birth certificate.

I think that he has more to hide than just the 'type hard copy' of his birth.

I question his father being a British tSubject, his sealing all documentation from when he first attended school all the way through Harvard.

You see between hiding his birth certificate and insuring that all documentation regarding the years spend in the US, and Indonesia IS SEALED???

Why would a POTUS seal his medical records for EVERYONE? His admission test score, grades, scholarships, admission records, letters of recommendation.

From what I was able to discover PRIOR to all information being scrubbed. Some of his letters of recommendation came from RADICAL BLACKS, RADICAL MUSLIMS and even members of the Saudi Royal Family.

In fact some of his education may have been paid for by Radical Muslims and Arabs.

NOte that he says he is Christian... yet ther are no baptism records.

It appears that his Selective Service Registration paperwork may have be been forged.. and the list goes on and on.

Posted by: miller51550 | July 26, 2009 11:47 PM | Report abuse

JeremyDozier
I would like to see records searched to see if Barry Sotero (President Obama) ever received aide as a foreign student.

Do you have reasonable evidence to support this allegation? Or do you just favor as many fishing expeditions as possible?

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 27, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

miller51550, you need to adjust your tinfoil hat, because it's not blocking out all the voices. Do you have any reasonable evidence to support any of your claims? In our system of jurisprudence, the burden is on the accusers (you and your ilk) to disprove the respondent's replies. No evidence? You lose.

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | July 27, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Hey you birthers, I'd like each and everyone of you produce your own long-form birth certificate plus witnesses.

Also, I bet you cannot pass the US citizenship test since you obviously forget that all it takes is for ONE parent to be an American citizen, and Obama could have been born on the Moon and he still would be a "natural born American".

Posted by: soho99 | July 27, 2009 5:18 AM | Report abuse

I say the water thing is the best answer only I would want to "waterboard" him until he authorizes or orders Hawaii to produce the original paper regarding his foreign birth and then he could be taken directly to GITMO for further interrogations.

Posted by: Randwulf | July 27, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Birthers, the only point Birthers have is the one on their collective heads which may or not house a brain,as of yet I haven't seen any evidence of them having one.

Posted by: bobswire | July 27, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Original long-form (vault) certificate, with Obama born of two US citizens.

Posted by: bkrishan200841 | July 27, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Doe anyone doubt Obama's grandparents are American citizens and his mother is an American citizen?

Not only has the State of Hawaii certified his birth certificate, check out Snopes.com and you will see a first-hand comment from someone who knew the doctor who delivered baby Obama, in Hawaii.

But, I got back to the point that, with or without a birth certificate, Obama is the son of his American-citizen mother and he is a "natural born American".

All you birthers are just disguising your racist hatred for him by questioning his birth right. Why aren't you questioning the birth of another President? Why is it so easy to believe that other Presidents have been natural-born Americans?

If you cannot believe the State of Hawaii, why believe the State of Texas where dead people have been known to vote -- yep, let's question President Bush's birth certificate. I know that sounds crazy, but that's how crazy those who question Obama's birth certificate sound to me.

Posted by: soho99 | July 27, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

I like it when people can see eye to eye. The "birther" nonsense unites the "he's a Muslim terrorist" folks with the "he's an African" folks. That's nice. I just wish they would shut up and do the job that our taxes pay them to do.

Posted by: diahni | July 27, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Soho99, you beat me to it. Come on people give it up and get a life, we had to put up with a genuine illegal President for the previous 2 elections via vote tampering and this is what you've chosen to be up in arms about? This is the kind of nonsense that is used to distract and redirect our attentions while mischief is afoot. I urge anyone that is allowing this silly and fruitless endeavor to take up too much of their time, to take a step back and reacess, I'm sure there are more important things going on around you that need your attention more than this.

Posted by: iceinil | July 27, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

re: AristotleTheHun,
Self proclaimed Birther

"I have a PhD, and am in private practice as a psychotherapist, so more than likely I am not crazy"

Not a psychologist, Self diagnosis - sorry, not very accurate. Write yourself a prescription. Oh wait, you can't. You're not a physician.

"I am a life time member of Mensa, so I am not stupid. Membership # 1061487"

I guess you had a lot of potential that was never lived up to. I bet you put that Mensa crap on your C.V. or resume as well. You passed a test. Sorry, It's not an accomplishment

"The guiding principles for my professional research for articles and books I write are the usual protocols of epistemology, scientific methodology, and rules of logic and the rules of evidence"

What articles, what books?
Peer reviewed? - doubtful

Get on with your pathetic uninspiring life,
learn something.

Posted by: gkg020 | July 28, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

One thing that distinguishes this thread from the many other Birthers v. Sanity threads that appear online is the relative absence of the dumb Birther talking point that has Obama spending "millions of dollars" (as the single reference I found here put it) to "hide the true facts" about his birth.

No details or source are ever provided for this false talking point, and the amount of money supposedly spent varies depending on which Birther made it up. I have seen $400K, $500K, $1 million, and $1.5 million claimed in recent days, in addition to this thread's vague "millions of dollars".

I wonder how many PhD dissertations in Abnormal Psychology will be inspired by the Birther movement and its successors. Or is this normal human behavior?

Posted by: MarkFromOhio | July 29, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

The real question is why would Obama seal his records? Why doesn't he want to share his record with the American people? Why doesn't he want to show the American people his LONG FORM birth certificate? Why doesn't he want the American people to get detailed information on his education?

What is he afraid of? What is it that he doesn't want the American people to see?

An honest man with nothing to hide would not have had to spend a single dime in trying to keep this type of standard information away from the people who he is supposed to be employed for.

Posted by: Democrat_Culture_of_Corruption | July 29, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

The opposite of "Birthers" are "Con Artist Criminals". Which one are you? A citizen demanding to see these locked up records, or a criminal enabler, aider and "abetter"?

Posted by: Democrat_Culture_of_Corruption | July 29, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

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