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Bonneville, Nats in negotiations -- and the future of radio

So I just talked to Joel Oxley, the senior vice president for Bonneville D.C., the group of radio stations that owns and operates WTOP and the soon-to-be-reformatted WTWP-Washington Post Radio. I know this has been discussed by you folks here before, and I will write about this for the $.35 edition as soon as this weekend, but I figured since you folks were able to come up with more than 200 comments off an exhausting 12-inning loss at the end of a six-game losing streak, you deserve something extra.

Oxley confirms that Bonneville and the Nationals are deep in negotiations. He will meet with Nationals officials, including marketing guy Tom Ward, tomorrow.

"Negotiations are moving forward," Oxley said. "We are definitely interested in having them again, and I think they're interested in staying with us. I'd say things are progressing."

Since the Nationals arrived in DC in 2005, they have had three one-year radio deals, all with Bonneville. Now, the two sides are talking about the possibility of a multi-year deal, but that has happened in the past. Oxley said Bonneville would keep the Nationals on their current frequencies - 1500 and 820 AM and 107.7 FM, which gives them good coverage.

"It's almost like having a network already," Oxley said. "They get up into Pennsylvania, out to the Delaware border, down to Richmond."

I'm not sure how the deal would work, whether the Nationals would receive a significant rights fee (doubtful) or if they'd be allowed to sell ads on their broadcasts and thus generate revenue themselves. They could package ads on the radio with some in the new ballpark, etc., if their creative.

The other thing to solve, and I'll be writing more about this, too: The futures of Charlie Slowes and Dave Jageler, who have been a team for the past two years. From what I'm able to understand from readers' commentaries here, Slowes and Jageler are well-liked among the fan base. Neither has a deal for next year.

Slowes has been here from the start, in 2005, when he was paired with Dave Shea. He was the voice of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for seven years before that, and was known to DC fans because of his work with the Washington Bullets. He has a pair of signature calls: "Bang, zoom go the fireworks!" and "Put another Curly W in the books!", or some variation thereof, after a Nats' win. He's so huge he has his own entry on Wikipedia.

Jageler was pretty unknown when he arrived as Shea's replacement in 2006. He had been the voice of the Pawtucket Red Sox for a year, and worked in Charlotte doing baseball and college hoops, as well as in Boston. Most people I've talked to believe he's a pro's pro, and he has fit in nicely with Slowes. My God, he, too, has a Wikipedia entry.

MASN is another area to explore, and I will do so within the next few weeks, too. Don Sutton has a multi-year deal, but Bob Carpenter's two-year deal is up this season. In three seasons, the Nationals have had five announcers on TV - Mel Proctor and Ron Darling in 2005, Carpenter and Tom Paciorek in 2006, and Carpenter and Sutton this season. Debbi Taylor will be back next year as sideline reporter. Though MASN is majority-owned by Orioles owner Peter Angelos, the Nationals have significant - if not all-but exclusive - input into who they hire to do their broadcasts.

I won't go into too much more depth here - gotta save something for the $.35 edition - but I'd be interested in a focused discussion on both broadcasts - what you like, what you don't like, whether you think continuity is important for the Nationals going forward. We've got a night without a game. Have at it.

By Barry Svrluga  |  August 30, 2007; 5:23 PM ET
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I've been pretty pleased with the broadcasts on MASN, although some improvements would be:

1. HD broadcasts, please!

2. Stick to one MASN channel for Orioles, one for Nats. Playing guess the channel is ridiculous. Fill each one with relevant programming and advertising for the market.

3. I'm ok with Carpenter and Sutton. They'll have more to discuss next year in the new stadium.

4. Charlie and Dave are great, but I can't get a signal for squat in downtown DC from Foggy Bottom to the Convention Center.

Posted by: ShawNatsFan | August 30, 2007 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Well, if this is going to be read by the bigshots, I might just go all out:

Charlie Slowes and Dave Jageler could very well be the cornerstones of the Nationals media. Listening to them call the play by play, and their interesting observations and quirks makes the radio my second favorite venue for following the Nats (after the park, of course). PLEASE keep them. They attract fans, they retain fans, and I have yet to meet a person who doesn't appreciate the job they do.

TV-wise, Carpenter and Sutton do a good job. Not a great job, but a good one. I love Sutton's input on his own history in the game, and he accurately tells us about the trials that a pitcher goes through during a game. What I would love, and I don't know if it can be found, is the next Harry Caray. We need a big personality that wins over our hearts (like Slowes, but crazier), so that we can endure the awful, blatant monopolization of the TV ads (done by Angelos). Use Carpenter and Sutton as a stopgap, find a real baseball wacko, and then run with it.

And while we're at it, find a way to give Fick a microphone (also get him off the field). That man is hilarious, crafty and always up to something. He could be a great on field guy.

Posted by: NattyDelite! | August 30, 2007 5:54 PM | Report abuse

I was at Kill Devil Hills, NC this summer and we had MASN on tv and I could get 1500 am on my car radio. It was great.

I like Slowes and Jaegler - hope they stay around for the new park - ditto for Carpenter and Sutton. I'd like to see some DC baseball guests like Frank Howard and old Senators radio voice, Ron Menchine.

Posted by: Natswriter | August 30, 2007 6:06 PM | Report abuse

HD broadcast ASAP!!!

First a disclaimer - Don Sutton's little brother was my 5th grade teacher.

Anyway, I love Don and we should keep him. Ditto Slowes, but can we team them up, plus Rober Fick in a 3 man for Radio and TV?

Speaking of RF did anyone else see the quote from him about wanting to play one more season in the majors so he can collect a pension?

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 6:12 PM | Report abuse

I commute between DC and Charlottesville and get 107.7 all the way down to C-burg (although the signal deteriorates as I get within the city limits). I love Slowes and Jageler. Bonneville owns at least one station in Charlottesville and ought to broadcast there: a big baseball town and potentially substantial fan base for the Nats (can you say Ryan Zimmerman?)

Posted by: Section 419 Row 9 | August 30, 2007 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I like all four commentators, and do both watch the games on television and listen on the radio. I agree with Natty, Fick was a hoot - and I would favor having more "guests" in the broadcasting booths from time to time.

Posted by: Traveler | August 30, 2007 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Heh! I guess I wasn't the only one who thought "Fick! Future broadcaster!" after seeing him in the TV booth.

Posted by: misschatter | August 30, 2007 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Slowes and Jageler are great. I like how they alternate the play-by-play and color commentary every 2 innings or so. Slowes sounds older than his actual age, which I like. Jageler has gotten better as the season has progressed (and if anybody noticed, also did the voiceover for the Nationals Park DVD given to season-ticket holders). He has a lighter timbre (less gravitas) to his voice than Slowes, though, which took a little getting used to, but now I'm totally fine with. He did a VERY good job on his own earlier in the season one day when Slowes was out with an illness.

Having Slowes do the last inning is great, though. I still remember his July 4th call last year when Zimmerman hit that game-winning, walk-off homer against the Marlins.

Carpenter and Sutton are fine. I like Sutton's insights, and I can't think of anything not to like about Carpenter.

In short, keep 'em all.

Posted by: Juan-John | August 30, 2007 6:26 PM | Report abuse

I don't watch MASN but I really enjoy the radio broadcasts and listen almost every night. I pretty much skimmed the surface (headline and boxscore) of baseball until the last couple years, and they seem strong at pulling in technical information about the strategy and style of play, and doing it in a way that makes sense to my ignorant ears.

Posted by: NJ Nats Fan | August 30, 2007 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if the Nats are on or are planning to be on Satllite Radio? I commute back and forth to St. Louis every weekend and if I'm forced to watch or listen to one more Cardinals game I might hurt myself.

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Pleaeeeeese, pleaseeeees keep Carpy, and, even though I've told Stan Kasten that I miss Tom Paciorek, keep Don Sutton! Please, please, please, please keep Charlie and Dave, the voices of the franchise! Do not do to them what Peter Angelos did to Jon Miller!

Posted by: flynnie | August 30, 2007 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Bob C. bugs...sometimes I question whether he really knows the game. Sutton is great, but I think hes had to step up because of Carpenter. While these last two years of Carpenter have been OK (but I couldn' stan Paciorek AT ALL!!!), I think its time to move on, get someone to replace Carp, stick with them (and Sutton of course), and go.

Posted by: Andrew Stebbins | August 30, 2007 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and ditto what ShawNatsFan said about MASN: dedicate ONE channel for the Nats, and ONE for the O's. Don't make us fans have to channel-surf to find our team. It's downright stupid.

Better yet, Mr. Angelos, just SELL THE NATS' TV RIGHTS BACK TO THE LERNERS and be done with it.

Posted by: Juan-John | August 30, 2007 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Steinberg has his own wikipedia entry too.

The radio team is good, I don't see any reason to change.

I was disappointed when they chose Sutton over seemingly better candidates but he's been OK. Not as boring as I thought he was going in having heard him do the Braves games.

Carpenter calls the game beautifully, which is most important. If they could do something about his "take that" mentality (not pretty on a 70 win team) and habit of repeating punchlines or entire jokes - that would be great. Talking down to the audience isn't so cool either - but there are, presumably, kids out there watching.

Also, whatever they paid for those TV ads - it was too much. Even if they were free.

"Hey Nats fans...Chad Cordero hasn't blown a save in 14 days...Whatcha gonna do about that Barry Bonds?"

Posted by: Prophet | August 30, 2007 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I have only listened to a few of the radio broadcasts, and in those cases, it was streamed over the internet when the TV was blacked out... So I haven't developed a taste for Slowes and Jaegler. However, I think it is telling that so few people complain about them in this forum. When I have listened, I have thought that they were both professional and distinctive... so from a branding standpoint, they're a positive for the Nats. One thing that would be huge for me... not that I am the median Nats customer... but if the MLB media package included an audio media player for smartphones that was carrier-neutral... that would be very cool for me...

As for MASN, I get to see about half of the games on MASN (the MLB package carries the home team's video). I had seen Sutton last year, and didn't think I was going to like him... but it turns out that I do like him. He offers two distinct advantages - First, there is no disputing his knowledge and experience... and it isn't like Ron Darling... who I thought was knowledgable, but average. When you hear Sutton speak, you KNOW that he knows what he's talking about. I think I wouldn't necessarily like that in a friend, but in terms of getting baseball expertise, you know you have it in Sutton. Of course, it is his opinion, but it is an opinion that one would generally respect. Second, I get the impression that he has the respect of the players - I suspect this based on the way that he reports what he has heard from them... that they wouldn't be as forthcoming with him otherwise.

As for Carpenter, I don't know what to make of him. I like him well enough, but he doesn't really grab me. He talks about the Cardinals a lot, which is understandable... and it would be annoying if we were in the NL Central, because it would be like someone talking about the Phillies all the time... but I think I can (in the short term) forgive him some of that...

In light of the fact that I've listeded to all of the NL broadcast teams and most of the AL teams, we're not really all that bad off... though there are some that I like better. I mentioned in another thread that I didn't care for Vin Scully very much. Another thing I've noticed is that other broadcast teams are not all that well informed about the Nats... they make a lot of factual mistakes... and mostly there isn't a way to know whether our broadcast teams make mistakes covering the competition.

The short answer is, they could stand pat, and be good... making a change on radio is probably a bad idea... and getting someone better than Carpenter is 50-50. If you can sign him again, I'd keep him...

I liked Shaw Nats Fan's idea of putting the Nats on one channel and leaving them there... then you could have NatsMASN and osMASN... not that it matters to me... I just like the idea.

Posted by: Wigi | August 30, 2007 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Carpy doesn't know the game? Andrew, Andrew - you have said in other threads that you think him anti-Nat! Not a homer! Objectivity is a good thing, as is Carpy, who knows enough baseball to have written a book on scoring and displays encyclopedic knowledge with every broadcast. Keep Carpy!

Posted by: flynnie | August 30, 2007 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Carpenter and Sutton used to spend more time talking about the other teams than the Nats. I'm not saying trashing the Nats and talking up the other team, I'm saying IGNORING the Nats. I want them to talk about my team, even if they're bad-mouthing it. At the very least say "see, the Nats need to get a guy like Pujoles, this is what he does for St. Louis and this is what a similar guy could do for the Nats."

That has changed. They are beginning to get on board. Resign them for two more years and they will be better and better. And maybe Sutton will get all the names right. But a little consistency would be wonderful.

Charlie and Dave might as well be given 20 year, no-trade contracts. They're divine.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 7:30 PM | Report abuse

estuartj, XM Radio carries the MLB games but only broadcasts the home announcers of each you would only get Nat's announcer 81. But the good news is that every MLB game is available. I would highly recommend XM, I bought it a few months ago for Nats games (I live in Florida) and have really enjoyed having it in my car and at home.

Does anyone know if the Nats are on or are planning to be on Satllite Radio? I commute back and forth to St. Louis every weekend and if I'm forced to watch or listen to one more Cardinals game I might hurt myself.

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 06:29 PM

Posted by: NeedANatsFix | August 30, 2007 7:36 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if the Caps deal with The Artist formerly known as WAPO Radio will effect any potential deal with the Nats.

Posted by: odessa steps magazine | August 30, 2007 7:48 PM | Report abuse

The people who should be polled on the question of radio/tv coverage are not readers of this blog. I suspect that both the Arbitron radio ratings and the Nielsen TV ratings are infinitesimal. I wonder if Lerner & Co. have ever paid for focus groups of potential fans and determined their preferences? Frankly, folks, we--the steady viewers and listeners--are so few we do not count in the larger scheme of things, if the goal is to reach a large audience, not just baseball fanatics.

The sense I get is that the Lerners think there is a reservoir of good will and enthusiasm both for them and for baseball in D.C. that will provide the basis for a large and lucrative fan base and that nothing much needs to be done except to have the new stadium ready in 2008. You build it, they will come.

I'm not so sure. With a historic presidential election year coming up and then all of the stuff that goes on during a transition to a new Administration, the mediocre Nats may well be ignored. Who's going to be watching, who's going to be listening to another year or two of sub-par games? The Post and radio and TV will make sure the Redskins will not be ignored, and the 'Skins do have the reservoir of good will and a huge fan base. But the Nats?

Posted by: JohnR (VA) | August 30, 2007 7:48 PM | Report abuse

I really think the most important issue mentioned in here is Wikipedia--and why Barry isn't on it! Someone get on that STAT.

Posted by: Atlanta | August 30, 2007 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the forum, Barry. I hope The Post grants you an extension (and raise).

1. KEEP Charlie & Dave. Dave is the yin to Charlie's yang.

2. Sutton is great. I feel like I'm in a baseball master class when Sutton speaks.

3. REPLACE Carpenter. The new man or woman should allow Sutton to lead the broadcast. Carpenter's nostalgia for all things midwest, 1950's, and small-ball is annoying. His phrasing is awful.

Posted by: BrianH | August 30, 2007 7:50 PM | Report abuse

I really do like Slowes and Jaegler a lot. I didn't expect to like Sutton as much as I do. Carpenter is solid, but ordinary. I like the idea of Fick up there a lot. He could be more of a Bob Uekker(sp?) type personality.

Most of all, I hope the Lerner family INSISTS that once Angelos sells the right to the O's, that MLB mandates that his rights to the Nats disappear. Even if the Nats need to buy them back.

Go Nats. Looking forward to a losing streak ending homestand!

Posted by: roman1735 | August 30, 2007 7:58 PM | Report abuse

On a positive note for the off note, Jordan Zimmerman's line tonight in VT so far;

3.0IP 1H 0BB 6 SO

6 SO in 3 innings? The Zim Reaper lives!

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Positive Note for the off Night. Sorry for the brain fart.

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 8:10 PM | Report abuse

i think the Nats need some success, meaning at least a winning season or a contending season to garner good will in the DC-Metro area. Even towns now termed "great baseball towns" had a winning season that turned the town's hearts to them (1967 Red Sox - look at Boston's attendance from 1961-66 - not so hot!). Barry, with your Boston knowledge, is it true that Fenway was on the chopping block for a 1970s era multi-use stadium if 1967 hadn't happened?)

What I'd like to see is an in-depth analysis of the MASN deal - is it, as most people in this blog suspect, a raw deal for the Nats or is it not quite that bad? I'd like to see what the Post can reveal. Are the Nationals a major market team made mid-market by MASN or something less dramatic?

Posted by: Natswriter | August 30, 2007 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Another MiLB hightlight. Justin Maxwell hit his 11th homer at Potomac (25th for the year) in the first inning. He is now hitting .400 in his last 10 games (15H in 35AB) with 3 HRs 4 doubles, also 2BB, 8SO and 5SBs (no CS).

Good enough to get called up as Barry hinted might happen? We shall see...

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 8:18 PM | Report abuse

flynnie - "[Carpenter] displays (incorrect - AS)..."knowledge" with every broadcast." Which is when Sutton shows how good he is, when correcting (in a polite manner, of course) Bob.

Wigi- Ive got that package too. How BAD were the two broadcasters in Colorado??? They were unbelievable. Scully is a favorite of mine though, because he doesnt have any stupid phrases (Im def. not a fan of "C-YOU LATER" but Im usually pumped at the time anyways so I dont really care). I like the guys in Florida too.

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 30, 2007 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Andrew: I really like the Florida guys. They have that Miami hip thing happening... and they're pretty smart and they're up to date on what's happening with the Nats... of course it is easier when you see them as often as you do your division-mates.

The Colorado guys were pretty crappy, I agree. As for Vin, I don't know what gets me about him... but he almost sounds like a machine talking. He definitely knows his stuff... almost too perfect??

One thing that I don't like about the MLB package is that I would prefer to have the commercials than the little splash they have. Being a Washingtonian by birth, I wouldn't mind a Ledo Pizza commercial... I can still get up and ignore it... just gives you a bit of local flavor...

But hey, I am weird.

Posted by: Wigi | August 30, 2007 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Hey Atlanta,

I tried looking for enough information to put up there, but the only stuff I could find was the little blurb right before the chats. Then, when I tried to post that anyway, I ran into some trouble. I'm not exactly the most Wiki-enabled user though, so I'm not sure what happened.

Also, where do you live in Atlanta? I'm in Midtown near Piedmont Park, just moved down from DC a month ago.

Posted by: NattyDelite! | August 30, 2007 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Another vote here for keeping both Carpenter and Sutton. Carpenter is a smooth, quality professional and Sutton is quite insightful.

Posted by: Nats Fan | August 30, 2007 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Just like everyone else, I am dying for some HD action!

Posted by: Phillip | August 30, 2007 8:59 PM | Report abuse

More MiLB updates;

Justin Maxwell hit yet another HR, his first was to center (over 400 ft away) and the second was to left (315 at the corner). This is back to back HRs, 14 so far at High A potomac and 26 on the year.

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Another MiLB update from Vermont, Jordan Zimmerman's line so far tonight;

5.0IP 1H 0ER 1H 9SO 0BB 1.63ERA

9K in 5IP, this guy is crazy good.

Posted by: estuartj | August 30, 2007 9:05 PM | Report abuse

I echo the comments re: MASN. HD. One channel each for the Nats and O's. Also, I'd ditch My 20. It's annoying to go from pre-game show on MASN to My 20 back to post-game show on MASN.

I like Sutton. Carpenter less so...he seems to try to hard. Adding Fick as a 3rd man in the booth would solve two problems: filling Sutton's long silent periods. And improving our bench.

I also like Ray Knight. But the pre-game show is a waste. Baseball lends itself to post-game shows, though, so keep 'em. Move the studio to the new ballpark, which might allow for player drop-ins, etc.

Also, add a weeky Baseball Tonight-like show to provide better reflection and analysis. Here would be an appropriate place to cover both the Nats and O's. For instance, it would be interesting to hear Jim Palmer's perspective on the Nats, and Sutton's on the O's. You wouldn't get that in the normal game broadcasts.

Oh, and kill Nats Xtra. It's plain irritating.

On radio, definitely keep Slowes, and the current channels. I'm indifferent to Jagler, who seems pretty vanilla.

To mix things up, I'd have the radio crew (or at least Slowes) do a couple innings on TV, and vice versa with the TV crew. I think Harry Carry used to do that. And Charley has the potential to become just that for Washington.

I see that I'm running on. So I'll stop here.

Posted by: Ashburn | August 30, 2007 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Capital Punishment ran a thread about Carpenter a few nights ago trashing him for the numerous mistakes he makes on basic baseball calls. I agree with the negative take on Carpenter. Sutton is fine, but I love Sloes and Jaggler. They're (the correct usage) professional and enjoy what they are doing. They stick to the play by play for the most part and their ability to convey a jovial presence in the broadcast box is a plus.

Carpenter tries too hard to analyze the game and he is not good at it. He has almost no sense of humor and takes the game way too seriously. That gets old when the team is as bad as ours has been.

Some comments have suggested a personality like Harry Caray. Personally I do not think this is that kind of town. Jon Miller was the most popular TV or radio announcer this area has seen because he was funny, smart, and entertaining. I think the area deserves someone smarter than Caray. Joe Buck, like is father, is one of the best around and it would be nice if we could have some one with class.

Posted by: Ted Leavengood | August 30, 2007 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, the MASN equipment in RFK seems pretty outdated. A lot of times the mics go silent, and I dont think theyve got a cough button (I always hear someone coughing in the backround).

While I dont mind Debbi T., the "onfield" lady (I quoted that because a lot of the time shes up in the booth anyways), I think shes got some dumb assignments sometimes. Whether thats her fault or not, I dont know, but hopefully in the new park some more interesting stuff is going on (including more winning).

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 30, 2007 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Of course, the hope is that MASN screws up so badly that the Lerners are able to make a case that Angelos has broken the contract. Don't bet against it. Angelos is not as good a lawyer as he thinks and the Lerners only hire the best.

As far as the announcers are concerned, I was more than pleasantly surprised with Sutton. I have a natural prejudice against pitchers (see my name)so that Sutton's level of knowledge surprised me. Carpenter is solid and steady, which is what you want in a play by play guy.

Jaegler and Slowes make a good team and don't seem to go overboard. I remember Bob Wolff, who made every single little play seem like the seventh game of the World Series. That was fine until the Senators finally got a lineup that included Killebrew, Allison, Lemon, and Sievers. Then it was overkill and unlistenable.

Posted by: Catcher50 | August 30, 2007 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Slowes and Jagler are excellent.

Carpenter and Sutton are just fine -- no complaints.

Get rid of Debbi Taylor and put Byron Kerr back in the mix. He was wonderful when Debbi (thankfully) went out on maternity leave. She's horrible.

As others have said, and I will reiterate: HD, a predictable channel and decent MASN "promos." Anything is better than the Nick Johnson and John Patterson promos they were airing this weekend.

One other request for MASN. Could they possibly take the Orioles logo off of the truck they have parked right outside the gates at RFK. Do they have to constantly remind us that Angelos owns us?

Posted by: Vienna | August 30, 2007 10:01 PM | Report abuse

No longer living in the DC area, I can't critique the TV broadcasts. As far as the radio guys go, they're outstanding and blend well together. The broadcasts are both informative and entertaining. A must keep for Bonneville.

Posted by: SC Nats Fan | August 30, 2007 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Carpenter as play-by-play is at his best when he doesn't go too crazy. He makes some mistakes, but that happens. Kinda tired of the "Wasn't Watching" story, but whatever. Sutton is great because he gets inside of the head of the pitchers, which is something I don't know real well.

BUT, I want to say a big no on putting Charlie and Dave on TV. Slowes and Jaegler are great because they have the perfect voices and cadences for the job in a way that works perfectly with radio, but would probably stall out on TV.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Radio: I can't (and don't want to) imagine the Nats without Slowes. I think Jagler is becoming better all the time. The current frequencies are great - I can actually hear day games!

I haven't watched many of the TV broadcasts, but would like to see HD TV and one channel where I can count on finding the Nats. Sutton is very imformative, but Carpenter sometimes makes some useless comments.

Posted by: Sect 422 | August 30, 2007 10:13 PM | Report abuse

I really enjoy Slowes and Jaegeler on the radio, which I usually listen to in the car while I'm driving around in the evening. Sign 'em to long-term deals. Their styles definitely complement each other.

I love Don Sutton. Listening to him is like attending a seminar on how a pitcher thinks and the game within the game. Carpenter is OK, way too much of a homer with a capital H in my opinion. One nite not too long ago (before the recent games in Denver and LA) he actually talked about how many games we were out of wild card contention. But he's good from a technical standpoint and works well with Sutton. I say keep 'em both.

Calling Debbi Taylor a "sideline reporter" is way too generous. My teenage daughter has a more professional voice and she has never added one useful piece of information that I can remember, and I watch just about every nite. Byron Kerr? Are you kidding me? He puts the B in Boring.

I do have a replacement in mind --- ME!! I'm a former Channel 4 TV News reporter looking to make a comeback. Stan, I'm available!!!

Posted by: Vandy | August 30, 2007 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Forgot what I meant to post about! That is, the importance of my20. My20 (I still call it DC20, but only in the same way I still talk about the "Bullets" occasionally, not on purpose, as in National Airport) is not a cable channel and therefore available to all residents of the city for free.

That is very, very important. The Washington Nationals cannot be the baseball team of white Virginians and succeed in Washington, D.C. I'm not saying all cable subscribers are white Virginians, but there's something special about a team that everyone can watch and that everyone KNOWS that everyone can watch. Baseball in DC needs to be marketed to the people of the DC area, not the cable subscribers.

Where is football shown? On Fox, where everyone can watch it. I don't expect Fox to start showing Nats games, but we have to recognize that those games being easily visible is important.

So on TV, I think the thing the Lerners should be fighting for with Angelos right now is more Nats on my20 where the whole city has the chance to tune in. Where kids in Southeast can watch Dmitri Young on TV at night and go out the next afternoon and practice hitting like the Meat Hook. This can not be affluent Virginia's ball team and survive.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 10:20 PM | Report abuse

I find it irritating the camera will suddenly pan to some child in the crowd (sorry proud parents) during the game, and then Carpenter will start going on about cottoncandy. Oy. Sorry if I offend anyone with this, but during the game I want to be watching the game, and not a kid either 1/2 asleep or bouncing around in the stands. Maybe thats just me.

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 30, 2007 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Carpenter must go. I HATE having to listen to him. I think the team is trying to sell tickets by putting him on TV -- its worth the price of a ticket to get to see the game without listening to him brag on the other team (and provide minute by minute updates of the St. Louis Cardinal game that virtually no one in his audience cares about but him.) He is NOT objective, he is anti-Nats. He brags on the other team obessively, gets excited when the other team wins, hits a home run, etc. His attempts to pretend to be pro-Nats are shallow. He is not up to date with his information, and Sutton often has to correct him about facts. He has no idea who is audience is, and often refers back to Expos moments like they should mean something to the current Nationals fan base. I've said all this in another thread. He's awful. I'm not busting the guys chops because he isn't a homer, but he clearly does not like this team in my opinion and would flee for his beloved Cardinals in a minute if he were given the opportunity.

Sutton is ok, I like him much better on the Nats telecasts than I did on TBS. He is going to be here anyway no matter what any of us think of him since he has a multi-year deal, and has a Kasten Braves connection. I think Sutton has to work very hard to make the broadcast informative with his current partner. Sutton is no homer either, but he is rooting for the young pitchers (and the team, IMO) and has insights about the game. I particulary enjoyed his defense of John Lannan when he was thrown out in the Philadelphia game. His performance demonstrated affection for the team combined with knowledge, intellegence and common sense.

Debbi Taylor is somewhat grating with her "human interest" stories (like her deal at the pool in Arizona) but does seem to get some info during the game with injuries, etc.

Charlie Slowes is A MUST STAY!!! The guy is everything Carpenter should be but is not. Clearly supporting the team, but not reporting through rose colored glasses. His calls are colorful (the Nook Logan call from the Cleveland game was an instant classic), and provides the most information. He is the media face of the team and by far the most enjoyable of the persons employed by the team to call the game. He should be signed to a long term contract. I'd love to see him on TV next year.

Dave Jaegler is good too, a nice compliment to Charlie. Has good insight, and, like Charlie, clearly likes the team and wants it to win, but stays objective enough to report things honestly. I'd like to see him back next year as well.

Posted by: Ray | August 30, 2007 10:31 PM | Report abuse

One more thing -- I really enjoy the pre and post game shows. Johnny Holiday and Ray Knight are great. Johnny has that odd sense of humor that makes the show entertaining (referring to Knight as the "Silver Fox" and his daily naming of people that he ran into on the street asking him 'where can I find my MASN'?) Knight is really enjoyable too, and is very knowledgable about hitting and has insights on the team chemistry. These guys are great in their roles as studio hosts and I hope they are retained.

Posted by: Ray | August 30, 2007 10:40 PM | Report abuse

I don't have a TV (GASP!) so I get the games (those I'm not attending, of course) most from the radio. I live in the District and cannot even get static on 107.7, but I listen to Slowes and Jaegeler through MLB while I've got Gameday up and I've grown pretty attached to those two. Nothing really stands out very much with them, which I think is good on radio. Anything stands out too much, even the good, and it can get irritating. So I'd say they're professional and pleasant. Definitely keep 'em.

Sutton was mean to me in Pittsburgh, so I got no love for him. (Hey Sutton, remember me? The girl with the innocent remark about your pronunciation of SCHneider? Yes I do know what happened in the bottom of the 5th, thank you very much) ahem...

I do watch some of the archive games and I'm not too impressed with Debbi Taylor. The other guys seem to give her a great amount of respect and I was pleased to see both the respect as well as a woman broadcasting about baseball, so I was willing to give her a lot of leeway, but her material just isn't very meaty and her voice is just a little too shrill.

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Ted Leavengood: Nice catch on the their/they're usage!

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 10:44 PM | Report abuse

What happened in Pburg with Sutton? Also, whats that 5th inning thing?

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 30, 2007 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Hi guys. I've been too busy to post lately but I've been reading.

...I'd love to get a little bit of a boost of FM signal in the stadium. I realize this is too late for RFK, but I've tried three portable radios and hardly been able to get a decent signal. My seat is 100' away from the broadcast booth. sad. Others in my row use satellite radio but the sat delay keeps them a pitch behind. Yuck.

...I've said before: I'm a huge fan of Slowes and Jaegler. I found this years' TV team to be tolerable when the radio/TV delay is off so much that I can't use the radio for audio and the TV for picture.

...In Chicago I remember a promotion where they (Tribune) gave away little over-the-ear radios tuned to the cubs' broadcast station. Post Radio should do a promo like that.

And Wigi: yes, you are weird but that's what we love about you. And I, too, love Ledo's Pizza. Yummy. When I'm not at the park on Friday's that's where I watch the game, usually.

See you all at the Rick this weekend. Go Nats!

Posted by: i hate walks | August 30, 2007 10:56 PM | Report abuse

(Apologies to those who've heard this story already) I went to the Pittsburgh games at the end of June. Saw Don Sutton while he was signing for the young girl next to me, and I said to him, playfully with a big grin, "just one beef, Mr. Sutton. It's SCHneider." He barked back at me something like "you people listen and all you can find is one little mistake, but you don't even know what happened in the bottom of the 5th, do you?" I froze because I wasn't expecting hostility. It was quite humiliating.

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 10:57 PM | Report abuse

No TV? NatsNut, marry me!

Andrew, Sutton snapped at NatsNut when she called out to him "one more thing, it's SCHneider" to tease him about the names thing.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 11:00 PM | Report abuse

I think Debbi, Don, and Bob do a great job on the TV Broadcasts, as do Ray and Jonny Holliday on the Pre and Post-Game Shows. And Slowes and Jageler are great on the radio, so i'd like to see things stay the way they are as far as that goes.

Keep up the good work Barry!!

Posted by: msmb | August 30, 2007 11:00 PM | Report abuse


If you send me the content you want and a photo to use I'll create your overdue wikipedia entry. Hendo is probably already working on it, though.

Posted by: i hate walks | August 30, 2007 11:01 PM | Report abuse

506: okay.
How about on the field, like Bull Durham? Your red-headed, cubs fan, t-shirt hating, girlfriend might kick my a** though.

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Now's your chance, i hate walks, Hendo's in a different time zone! Besides, his Wikipedia entry would be all in verse.

Forsooth! Who might be this golden pen'd scribe
on whose mighty brow does sweat gather with
toil and manly deeds of journ'listic might
to break the clouds of sad eyed gloom that dark
our city when in ignorance' it lies?

It is he, the rock of Washington's Post,
who, as a cheery star on the stormy
seas does still peak through break and scuffy gusts
until again the seaman knows his way,
does inform the common fan goings on
from a field to a clubhouse and beyond!

Sorry, Svrluga caused to much havoc with the meter.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 11:11 PM | Report abuse

What's the matter NatsNut? Can't handle a little danger?

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 11:13 PM | Report abuse

I have both XM radio and MLB Extra Innings so I have a pretty large sample size in which to evaluate broadcasters. I very much appreciate what I will describe as a soft conversational tone used by Carpenter, Sutton and the MASN producers. Compare that to the FOX regional baseball broadcasts which always play the energy charged intro music and have overdone graphics more suited for football. Carpenter is an above averaage baseball man and is right for the DC market. He gets some deserved criticism for talking about his Cardinals too much, but I recognize talent when I see it and really hope he will be back.

On radio, every other broadcast team has more history than the Nats, and most have a veteran baseball player doing commentary at least some of the time, but for calling a game, keeping it entertaining, and not getting lost in their own ramblings, this team has already moved into the top half (maybe top twelve) broadcast teams in the country. Keep them.

Yes I think continuity is important. ANd since both broadcast teams are good, why change.

Posted by: NatBisquit | August 30, 2007 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Any chance of having Bacsik train as a commentator? If he sounds half as good as the post-Bonds HR press conference, he'd be fun to listen to.

Posted by: Sect 422 | August 30, 2007 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Bacsik is a MUST for a hire as soon as he's ready.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 11:25 PM | Report abuse

"Forsooth! Who might be this golden pen'd scribe
on whose mighty brow does sweat gather..."

That ain't 506. Hendo, is that really you?

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 11:26 PM | Report abuse

"Any chance of having Bacsik train as a commentator? "

I totally agree. That guy did not use one single baseball cliche in his press conference. Not one.

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 11:28 PM | Report abuse

I Hate Walks: I haven't been to Ledo in probably 25 years... when there was only the one on University Blvd in College Park. Perhaps I should put it on my to do list when I am in town next.

Posted by: Wigi | August 30, 2007 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Wigi, I have similar memories of being at the first Five Guys and Lebanese Taverna. Man, those three in Nats Park would be awesome.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Ya'll must still be on LA time. I can't hang anymore. G'nite.

Posted by: NatsNut | August 30, 2007 11:46 PM | Report abuse

For Barry's Wikipedia entry- might I suggest the bio from his book? I'm happy to transcribe it later when I'm not thumb-typing. :)

As for the question at hand, I know I've said this before in defense of Bob Carpenter, but I totally disagree that he's not cheering for the Nats or is "anti-Nat." As someone who watches almost every game on TV (there goes my shot with 506!) I sense a lot of enthusiasm from him for our team. Also agree with the general consensus re our radio guys.

ps. So weird having a totally free night- Nats off, the BF at poker, and no plans. I watched a movie and whipped up a huge batch of pesto to freeze for the winter months. Is this what single life without baseball would be like every night? Not bad. :)

Posted by: JennX | August 31, 2007 12:10 AM | Report abuse

"... but I figured since you folks were able to come up with more than 200 comments off an exhausting 12-inning loss at the end of a six-game losing streak, you deserve something extra."
Remember, "measure outcomes, not output"

Marketing 101 - Branding means being instantly recognizable. Keep Charlie and Dave, long-term.
(I don't watch the MASN games much, so I'll withhold judgement on the TV crew.)

And speaking of Marketing 101, who the [RF] IS writing those ads? I had to install a MUTE button on my radio (but it "GETS the job DONE." )

"Most of all, I hope the Lerner family INSISTS that once Angelos sells the right to the O's, that MLB mandates that his rights to the Nats disappear."
Posted by: roman1735 | August 30, 2007 07:58 PM
I don't even know what that means. The man is a lawyer, and he has a contract in hand. Sucks but true. What do you expect them to do, hold their breath until they turn blue?

"As for Vin, I don't know what gets me about him... but he almost sounds like a machine talking. He definitely knows his stuff... almost too perfect??"
Posted by: Wigi | August 30, 2007 08:36 PM
This is the man who is famous for calling Sandy Koufax's perfect game: He's been doing this for a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. No surprise that he's really, really good at it. Not as good as he once was, maybe, but still The Man.

"Some comments have suggested a personality like Harry Caray. Personally I do not think this is that kind of town. Jon Miller was the most popular TV or radio announcer this area has seen because he was funny, smart, and entertaining. I think the area deserves someone smarter than Caray."
Posted by: Ted Leavengood | August 30, 2007 09:36 PM
Hear, hear!

"So on TV, I think the thing the Lerners should be fighting for with Angelos right now is more Nats on my20 where the whole city has the chance to tune in."
Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 30, 2007 10:20 PM
I would also like to associate myself with the comments of my colleague here. Disclosure: I don't (by choice) have cable. But his point is the thing. Marketing: the Cubs are on TV for free 162 times a year. Do that.

Natsnut, if my Cubs-fan wife wouldn't kick MY @$$, I'd at least go steady.

Posted by: Cevansjr | August 31, 2007 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Consider it Done -

(You can thank me later ;))

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 31, 2007 1:10 AM | Report abuse

Someone got to Barry's Wikipedia entry before I had a chance to. I do quite a bit of Wiki editing on baseball topics, but I'll let JennX have the next go at Barry's entry.

506, I bow in awe.

Posted by: Hendo | August 31, 2007 4:19 AM | Report abuse

Nice job on Wiki entry Andrew. I thought you'd get playful and say something about our worship of him, but I guess it's important to keep it professional. ;)

Posted by: NatsNut | August 31, 2007 6:10 AM | Report abuse

Cevansjr and 506: My dad would approve. It's always his first question when I tell of a new boyfriend, "does he like baseball?" Sadly, the last two didn't.

Posted by: NatsNut | August 31, 2007 6:25 AM | Report abuse

I will admit that I see the TV broadcasts more than listen to the radio. My limited exposure to Dave and Charlie tells me that I like Slowes a lot, but I'm luke warm on Jaegler. I don't find his voice quality very good. All in all though I think continuity is important so I vote for keeping them both.

On the TV side, both Carpy and Sutton are very good. They have good chemistry and Sutton's knowledge is excellent. He breaks down pitching as well as any broadcaster one can find. On Carpy I have to admit some Midwestern bias. Although I grew up in DC, my family is from Michigan, and I've always felt a certain kinship to that part of the country and their attitudes. Carpy is very mid-western in his manner. Like most St. Louis fans, he tends to be basically very supportive of the team. I think he gets properly excited about the Nats when they do well, and tends not to torch anyone. Yes, his love of the Cardinals can be a little irritating, but frankly it shows his (and Cardinals' fans) wholesome passion for the game - something we haven't developed in DC yet. He is not East Coast cynical and witty, but I like that. Of course they may mean that he's completely the wrong guy for this market since we are on the East Coast after all, but nonetheless I like him.

Posted by: #4 | August 31, 2007 7:10 AM | Report abuse

Don't be too awed, Hendo, it's just some silly Tennyson channeling! Nothing like excessively gaudy blank verse.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 7:37 AM | Report abuse

Didn't have time to read through all the comments, so apologies for what I'm sure are many repeated points.

To MASN (and its' ownership):

1 -- Riddle me this: What three MLB teams currently do not offer their local regional fans any semblance of an HD broadcast? How about the O's (MASN), the Nats (MASN) and the KANSAS CITY FRICKIN' ROYALS. That is the class MASN is in. The KC Royals. Wake up and offer HD!!!!!

2 -- Radio is fine.

3 -- Sutton is generally good. Not great, but generally good and I will always give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who piled up 324 or so career wins. Carpenter has worn out his welcome. He's okay, and it may not be his fault, but he is too much of a homer.

4 -- This expands my Carpenter point above. How much influence does having the baseball team you work for sign your paycheck when you are a member of the media? Well, actually you aren't a member of the media I suppose, you are a team lackey. It gets so old hearing inflated self-serving comments about the Nats players from Carpenter. (though Sutton does it too). I suppose as a former journalist the lack of objectivity is annoying though it seems to be a trend that isn't going anywhere as all kinds of teams are now owning their own broadcasts. Not really a good thing if you hope to get any objective points of view. That's why I still love Jon Miller.

Posted by: Ryan | August 31, 2007 7:38 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, Bob, tough crowd! They, like all of us, like the team. Let them be a little partial. I don't think that they are, but let them be a little partial. Charlie and Dave are probably more partial than Don and Bob. I certainly never question whether Slowes is nostalgic for his days with Tampa. What makes them different?

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Charlie & Dave are just fine. They're able to convey that they would like the Nats to do well without being homers. If I had one criticism, it's that Charlie tries to be a bit flip too often when there's not much going on. "Bang, Zoom, go the fireworks" is just right for radio.

I like Sutton & feel like I learn something when he's talking. He can be a bit pedantic, though. But I'd rather have that than someone who is forcing himself to be humorous (Paciorek).

Carpenter is adequate & wouldn't replace him for the sake of replacing him unless there was an opportunity for an upgrade.

Posted by: Section 418 | August 31, 2007 8:44 AM | Report abuse

New topic...

I'm incredibly excited about tonight's game. Tim Redding ready to dominate the AARP Giants. I can't imagine the cheap seats will be as full of opposing fans tonight as they would be for an NL East game so plenty of friendly faces!


Posted by: MKevin | August 31, 2007 8:59 AM | Report abuse

I can't comment on the TV commentary since I don't watch the games on TV, but regarding the radio broadcasts, I say keep Charlie and Dave for both their quality and teamwork, and for the continuity. The radio teams' work, first with Charlie Slowes and Dave Shea, and the past season and 3/4 with Charlie and Dave Jageler, has helped me learn a lot about baseball and therefore become even more fond of the game. Also, I like the way Dave and Charlie are balanced with regard to other baseball teams' feats on the field. They give due credit when another team's players do something noteworthy. Finally, the give-and-take between the two, particularly with regard to individual preferences for food, is frequently hilarious. I hope they're around together as a team for years to come.

Posted by: samantha7 | August 31, 2007 9:09 AM | Report abuse

First, I am a baseball on the radio freak. I got XM because of baseball and I'm unwilling to admit to how many games I hear. It's an addiction that began in the very early '50s when I was a kid in Louisville where for several years we got every game of three teams -- Reds, Cubs and Cardinals -- plus our beloved Louisville Colonels in the American Association.
I've moved around a lot and at one time or another I've listened to many of the greats on a regular basis. Red Barber, Mel Allen, Ernie Harwell, Jack Buck and Harry Carey when they worked together in St. Louis.
I'm not quite ready to put Charley and Dave in that company but I think they're great and keep getting better. Here's how much I like them. When the Nationals were in San Francisco recently, I listened to them instead of Jon Miller on XM and Miller is in the top two or three of my all time favorites, easily the best radio guy working today.
Unfortunately, the signal of the Richmond station on which I listen is weak and erratic. And they pre-empt Nationals games for any rumor of a football game. Very annoying.
I watch games on tv occasionally and those guys are OK, for tv guys. After an inning or two I usually mute the set and listen to DAve and Charley.

Posted by: Salty Dog | August 31, 2007 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I-HOP ISSSS for breakfast.

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 31, 2007 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I like SLowes and Jageler a lot also but...for god sakes mention the score a little more often. Nothing is more annoying than joining the broadcast and waiting five/ten minutes or an entire inning to find out the score.

Posted by: CANatsfan | August 31, 2007 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Are rosters officially expanded for today's games or tomorrow's?

Best guess at call-ups
Detwiler (after last potomac start)
Whitesell (After last game of AA, his back has been sore and they'll want to be sure he's 100% again).

Notable names left out;

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Maxwell = Andre Dawson

Posted by: Mjames | August 31, 2007 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I'd be surprised if they brought up too many outfielders. We need to play Peña every day from here on out to see what he can do, but we also need to see more Logan and Kearns to see if their turn-arounds offensively were flukes or the real thing. Particularly Kearns, I think. Unless we get a good deal on a FA centerfielder, I'm all for giving the job to Nook again based on everything I've seen.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Mjames, I hope you are right. If he can stay health he might answer our CF question real fast.

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 9:51 AM | Report abuse

506, I think Church and Logan are both gone next season. If one is back I think it will be Church (just because he's a lefty off the bench).

IMO they are playing Logan every day to ride out his hot streak and raise his trade value.

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I grew up in the NY Metro area, and what made me a Yankees fan (sorry, guys) was the great Phil Rizzuto behind the mike. Listening to that wonderful, personable, passionate broadcaster, how could I NOT be a fan?

That said, I think Charlie Slowes is the best broadcaster I've heard since Rizzuto in his prime. Slowes has turned me into a Nats fan (I figure anyone can root for a team from each league - it'll certainly make the World Series more interesting one day). And Jaegler makes a terrific partner. I only wish the Nats' TV commentators were as much fun to listen to - alas, that's not the case.

Posted by: Michael J. Hayde | August 31, 2007 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Kinda related - in today's paper the Caps have a two year agreement with the radio station formerly known as WaPo.

I think that's a plus in negotiations. I love Dave and Charlie - KEEP THEM NO MATTER WHAT!

Posted by: Greg | August 31, 2007 10:04 AM | Report abuse

RE: Logan's hot streak

I wish all our players had hot streaks that involve them batting .312 with a .747 OPS over 41 games and 138 at-bats. That's one heck of a streak.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 10:15 AM | Report abuse

NatsNut - I'm so sorry Sutton embarrassed you. That's no way for the public face of the team to act. Stan - I can't see Skip Caray, Ernie Johnson, or Tom Paciorek throwing high heat to a lovely lady fan like NatsNut, but then, they've never thrown Steve Garvey into a locker, have they? Andrew - thanks for the Wikipedia on Barry, even though you don't like Carpy, children or cotton candy. I thought Carpy's mock horror at feeding the kid all that sugar that late at night was lovely - light, funny, and sweet, just like his call of the game.

Posted by: flynnie | August 31, 2007 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I listen to the radio a lot, and over time Charlie has started to bug me. He tends to overpronounce words -- like he's got to put on his "radio voice" -- and his cutesy phrases aren't funny. He also tends to fill air with the out of town scores, probable pitchers, etc. instead of talking about the game. Lastly, whenever there's an extra inning game or a game with a tough travel schedule, he complains about it. Charlie, you've got the best job around -- no complaining!

On the other hand, Dave is great. He's got a great radio voice and he's very straight in his delivery. I also like that he doesn't pull any punches when the ump makes a bad call or the Nats make a bad play. He also does good interviews for the pre-game show.

Can't say much about Don & Bob, except that it is annoying that Bob is always talking about the Cardinals. Maybe now that he's got 2 years of Nats work under his belt, he can stop with the Cardinals anecdotes already.

Posted by: Nats 360 | August 31, 2007 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Oh and .406 AVG, .897 OPS with runners in scoring position since the All-Star Break. Zimm is .378, .988 for comparison. Church?

Since All-Star, .278 AVG, .792 OPS
RISP since All-Star, .161, .548

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Nats360, do you mean the Acela Out-of-town Scoreboard? I don't listen to anyone else on the radio, isn't telling out-of-town scores pretty standard? Since on radio you can't have the ticker I can't think of any other way to do it.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 10:36 AM | Report abuse

re: all the shots of fans on TV telecasts,

If I'm not mistaken, Fox started all this ridiculousness when it took over the MLB game of the week coverage. The first time I really recognized it was the playoffs in 2001, post 9/11.

With so many non-diehard "fans" watching the playoffs (and eventual Yankees-D'Backs WS drama), they started showing at least 3 different fan shots PER PITCH. Apparently their market research suggested TV viewers with short attention spans prefer to see several "new" shots (even if it's that guy with hairy shoulders and a tank top, the woman with the muffin-top doing twist-and-shout, or the kid eating cotton candy) rather than watching the batter/pitcher/catcher/manager scratch himself or spit between pitches.

As a baseball fan who tunes into games for the game, not to see the general American at a ballpark, I am tired of all these fan shots. But, I have to admit the TV folks are probably right - you can only see so many chaw/seeds spits in a broadcast!

Finally, I really liked Carpy's call on the cotton candy kid at 9:00pm local time that night! I was laughing thinking the exact same thing! (I only take the neighborhood kids for day games).

Posted by: ShawNatsFan | August 31, 2007 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Continuing the Church v. Logan comparison, Logan's SEASON batting average is now higher than Church's (even with a .188 June) and his OPS is getting closer even without that all those doubles.


Now I know there are many reasons you can argue that a guy who bangs doubles is more useful than a guy who beats out singles. I'm just thinking that

--===IT IS TIME===--

To re-evaluate our conventional wisdom on Nook Logan.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Many of us have been asking all year for the radio guys to clue us in once in a while on the score of the game and what inning we are in. THEY WON'T DO IT! Once in a rare while, they will tease us with partial info, but that's all.

So I just give up and tune in 103.5 FM every 15 minutes for score updates when I am in my car. So no matter how good these guys supposedly are, I would like to see a change.

Having said that, the radio guys seem polular. I am not sure why exactly. They do not often enough give the big picture of franchise development, minor league happenings, strategy, interesting stories, etc. But if it can be written in their contracts that they have to give the score or have pay deducted, then maybe OK.

Posted by: Ed | August 31, 2007 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Slowes and Jageler are wonderful and should be here for years. We need some consistency and those guys not only call a great game, paint a great picture, but are really the sound of Nats Baseball. For those of us who couldn't get the Nats on TV, which is most of us, for the first year + Slowes was the guy we came to love. I still at time when I am home turn down the sound on the TV and listen to Slowes and Jageler.

Posted by: BRothbart Sec 413 | August 31, 2007 10:59 AM | Report abuse

I wish the Nats would get rid of Bob Carpenter and get Mel Proctor back.Carpenter doesn't tell you anything about the Nats players - perhaps he assumes that if you live in the DC area you know all about them anyway, but we get new potential fans all the time and some people like to get to "know" the players. He makes every other team sound like a pennant winner, every opposing batter sound like a HOF hitter, and on top of everything else, the quality of his voice grates on my nerves. I liked Don Sutton at first, but find that by now he is getting on my nerves, also. I HATE Ray Knight, who has his favorite pitchers and always talks about them as if they were Cy Young award winners and potential HOFers, even after they have pitched a lousy game! He also makes excuses for his favorites - they can do no wrong! Byron Kerr is blah, and I don't even like Johnny Holliday as much as I used to before he started on Nats Extra. I rarely listen to the radio, but don't much care for the radio guys either. Maybe it has just been a long, hard season! I am a longtime baseball fan - almost 60 years - and am thrilled to have a team again, but I guess 2005 really spoiled me as I loved Mel Proctor and Ron Darling and find Carpenter/Sutton a very poor replacement.

I agree that it would be great if the Nats and O's could each have their own station so that it wouldn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to figure out how to find the game each day. I would imagine many potentail fans get discouraged trying to find the games and just give up!

Posted by: gilsfan | August 31, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Love the radio guys, but Sutton stinks on ice.

Posted by: Pondaz | August 31, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Chris over at Capitol Punishment frequently carps on the radio guys' failure to update the score of the game they're calling often enough. And he's right. I suggested once in a comment on his blog that the only way we'd ever get to hear the score more often would be to find a sponsor for it. I thought the "Capitol Punishment Score of the Game You're Actually Listening To" would be a good opportunity for him to pony up some sponsorship dough himself and put his money where his mouth is, but he didn't bite. Oh well.

The annoying thing about the "Acela Out-of-Town Scoreboard" is that apparently it always MUST occur in the fifth inning, otherwise the world will end. So if there's ever any drama taking place in the game during the fifth, accounts of it get muted by the constant spewing of scores and details of other games. Not having a picture, or even much of an attention span sometimes if I'm wandering around the house doing chores while listening, it's often hard to keep track of what's going on in the game.

And even after a season of listening to practically every game on the radio, a lot of questions still remain. Like, what is it that Grainger is actually getting done? (There's a Grainger building around the corner from my house, and it has no windows and always looks pretty deserted on the outside. Yet there must be a beehive of activity going on inside, unbeknownst to me. Should I worry that it might explode some day?) Which will come first, the end of the limited time I can get Sweet Strawberry Serenade at IHOP or Christmas? I need to figure out how to prioritize my shopping excursions over the rest of the year. And should I try the fresh approach advocated by McCormick and Schmick the next time I try to pick up a young lady at a bar, or will it just result in me getting a slap across the face? At least since I listen to the radio rather than watching on TV I don't have to wonder why the announcer can't pronounce the catcher's name right. I guess I should count my bleesings there, huh?

(And here's some food for thought: How would Don Sutton have been as a Phillies announcer back in the glory days of Mike Smit?)

Posted by: Section 419 | August 31, 2007 11:29 AM | Report abuse

--And even after a season of listening to --practically every game on the radio, a lot --of questions still remain. Like, what is it --that Grainger is actually getting done?

I hear you, section 419 - and what in the world is equestrian drosage(sp?)?

I don't live in the area, so I can't speak about the TV guys. The radio guys are fine, though I miss the witty and knowledgeable Elliott Price. I do wish they'd give more detailed information about what they are seeing - especially Slowes - rather than statistics. But they are better than most radio teams I've heard, and miles ahead of some.

Posted by: jk | August 31, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Section 419, don't forget to get your windows cleaned with SuperWindows or learn Donald Trump's secrets to making big money.

I think it has to be in the fifth inning because Acela pays for it to be in the fifth inning when the most people are listening. Probably especially when it's tense and people are listening attentively. Since it pays for the broadcast, I'm not going to complain too much, but it is annoying.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Living down south, a lot of the time I listen thru, and they have a linescore up, so you see the Nats score at all times. I hadn't really paid attention to the amount of times they did an across the board score report for other games, but do know they do a heck of a seemingly one hour scoreboard show after the game. If I'm not listening over, especially away games so I can still listen to the Nats broadcasters. I've usually got my XM tuned in when they play at home. I've heard many other games via my XM and IMO, the Nats radio guys are far better than what other teams have. The Padres, for example, are such homers it makes you lose your last meal.

Posted by: SC Nats Fan | August 31, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The time between scores suits me just fine.

"No, no, no, honey, I'm only going to listen until I hear what the score is!"

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Another reason I dont like Carpenter is I find he is always having someone "say" something. Im I the only one who notices is that?

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 31, 2007 12:10 PM | Report abuse

And since it's Acela who is sponsoring the out-of-town scoreboard, shouldn't they be making Charlie talk faster when he's giving those scores than he does the rest of the game? I mean, if it's not faster Acela is just another train, right? So the Acela parts of the program should be faster than the ordinary broadcast too. It would be fun to listen to Charlie trying to talk as fast as he can and not trip over his tongue. Plus it would free up time for them to give the score of the Nats game more often. What's not to like?

Posted by: Section 419 | August 31, 2007 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Good gravy, give 419 a job in marketing!

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Lose the dullard

Posted by: Ray Knight Stinks | August 31, 2007 12:24 PM | Report abuse

I dont know what plethora means. Ray Knight's too much of a fancy talker.

Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have Jose Rijo in the booth sometimes?

Posted by: Bobby Carpenter | August 31, 2007 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Slowes and Jaegler are super and must be kept! I don't have anything bad to say about Carpenter and Sutton but they can't compare to the radio guys. By the way, somewhere in the future, if there is ever a play by play guy who most folks here would label a "homer", I will apparently be the only person listening. I like Sonny and Sam. They're homers. Myron Cope did the Steelers games for about 35 years. He was the only reason I'd turn on the radio when I found myself on the PA turnpike during football season. He was a definite homer. I want the team to win and don't mind listening to an announcer who feels the same way.

Posted by: Natstivity1959 | August 31, 2007 12:33 PM | Report abuse

All four guys are fine with me -- although Debbi Taylor annoys me no end.

What really torques me is the horrible reception, whether it be 1500 or 107.7. It is amazing that they can beam clearly so far away, but no matter which radio I use, I can't get good reception inside the Beltway. I used to get 1500 very well in the old days of WTOP.

Posted by: nats fan in annandale | August 31, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for your revealing statistical information on Nook 506(AM). You have convinced me that it is time to play him every at-bat, everyday for the next month in order to assess. It would open up a range of potential Free Agent signings if one doesn't "have to" be a CF.

I'm also inclined to hope that the Nats only call-up those who we need to assess right now. Although I very much want to see Detweiler, I think I can wait until the spring. I want him healthy and I want him ready two years from now when, on Spetember 1, he takes the ball in a game with post-season implications.

Record another vote for Charlie and Dave. I don't get MASN but always liked Sutton on TBS.

Posted by: lowcountrynatsfan | August 31, 2007 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I havent been able to watch most of the masn broadcasts although ive got no complaints when i see them.

As for the radio, I am a regular listener. The nats are blacked out in blacksburg so i cant watch on (there is no masn with my cable package) but i have the gameday radio package and i consider it the best $15 ive ever spent. I love Charlie and Dave and I hope I can listen to the next year. Best baseball broadcast crew Ive listened to this year.

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | August 31, 2007 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Debbi has that wholesome, girl-next-door quality that makes Michelle Tafoya so great. I liked when she told the train engineer in Houston that she had asked the Nats to fire some shots at him during the interview. He looked surprised and dismayed. I'm glad they're keeping Debbi!

Posted by: flynnie | August 31, 2007 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm a World Series MVP, manager in the bigs, am married to Nancy Lopez, add good cheer and a wealth of knowledge to the broadcast, and someone thinks I'm a dullard!

Posted by: Ray Knight Rocks | August 31, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think that Ray Knight sounds/looks exactly like Darrell Hammond doing Bill Clinton on Saturday Night Live? It's uncanny.

Posted by: JennX | August 31, 2007 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I stare at the camera like a deer in the headlights and talk like I'm a member of the team with lots of 'we's and 'us'es. I honestly add little to the pregame other than make it nearly unwatchable

Posted by: Ray Knight | August 31, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Here's another question I have: I found out from reading that story in the Post a while ago about how they cut the big Curly W into centerfield at RFK that Larry DeVito, the Nationals groundskeeper who gets medieval on that grass in the radio commercial, is a real person. Does anyone know if the sure-footed Sherpa and the peanut-tossing perfectionist (whose names I both forget) in the other commercials are also real people who work at RFK?

Maybe I'm a little slow at catching on to "inside" stuff like this. After all, I just found out the other day that George, Tom, Abe and Teddy were real presidents. Who knew?

Posted by: Section 419 | August 31, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I always assumed that the people mentioned in those commercials were made up. You know, like the Nats players who intimidate their opponents in the MASN promos.

On that note, MASN should totally do a Lannan commercial that ends with, "What are you gonna do about THAT, Chase Utley?"

Posted by: JennX | August 31, 2007 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I pledge to guide this team

Posted by: Manny Acta | August 31, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Or a Bacsik commercial about pitch selection that ends with "So what'll it be, Barry? The cream or the clear?"

Posted by: Section 419 | August 31, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

>> Does anyone else think that Ray Knight sounds/looks exactly like Darrell Hammond doing Bill Clinton on Saturday Night Live? It's uncanny <<

Yes! When he flashes that big smile straight into the camera, it's a dead ringer for Hammond/Clinton. I always expect him to give us a thumb's up and say, ""I am indestructible."

Posted by: Ashburn | August 31, 2007 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I am officially bored with this conversation.

Are rosters official expanded as of Midnight tonight?

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Any suggestions on good stats subscriptions that don't cost too much (or at all)?

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Just when I was starting to forget why I read this. I'm laughing here.

Posted by: CEvans | August 31, 2007 1:56 PM | Report abuse

for 506 -
Membership in SABR gives you access to a number of stats sources. Cost is about $60/yr.

Posted by: Catcher50 | August 31, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

::stares vacantly at the chat::

Posted by: Ray Knight | August 31, 2007 2:10 PM | Report abuse

OK, so, to summarize:
Charlie and Dave must stay, but give the score more. Suggest buying them an egg timer. Tell the score and flip it over.

Carpenter's a nice guy, get him a job in St. Louis, and get Jon Miller back here. If we can pay Torii Hunter, we can pay him.
And replace Sutton, if only because he'd put Miller into a locker before May 1.

The ads are too cutesy by half. Get better writers, you can charge more for the spot if they draw listeners.

Improve the radio signal, and find a way to get more games on broadcast TV, or at least hi-def.

Debbie stays, but give her more latitude to develop the character.

I miss anything?

Posted by: CEvans | August 31, 2007 2:10 PM | Report abuse

HD Broadcasts for MASN


I miss anything?

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Internet streaming to smartphones... you missed that... of course, I am the only one that wants it.

Posted by: Wigi | August 31, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Broadcast Nats games on a single, dedicated TV channel (one preferably NOT owned by Peter Angelos).


I miss anything?

Posted by: Juan-John | August 31, 2007 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Keep Charlie and Dave. I attended the Cleveland/Nook Logan game, and we howled in the car when we heard the call on the post-game show. It was exactly what we were screaming at the time in the stands. I also have XM and listen to many teams' broadcasts, and our guys are distinctive and fun.

I am even a sucker for a homer a la Ron Santo. Hearing him groan "past Pierre, and Jeez, it's gonna roll to the wall" or get pumped about a good play forms a bond with the fans. Might get old after a while though.

Sutton's ok, agree that he's a little more interesting than when he was with the Braves. But that's probably because I care about the Nats rather than any improvement on his part. Carpenter is mediocre. Don't like the timbre of his voice and don't care about the Cardinals. I don't mute the volume when they're on, but I don't think their VORB (value over replacement-level broadcaster, in Sabermetrics terms) is high. They're pretty generic.

What's missing on Nats TV is humor and fun. I know it's unfair to compare anyone to Jon Miller, but on TV or especially on radio he sounds ready to laugh at any moment, and when he does he always - always - expresses his delight and the humor in the moment without being insulting to the players involved. An awe-inspiring ability. It's so easy for humor to sound mean even if not meant that way.

Posted by: Geezer | August 31, 2007 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Today's entry in guess the line-up

1. Logan (CF)
2. Belliard (2B)
3. Zimmermann (3B)
4. Young (1B)
5. Kearns (RF)
6. Pena (LF)
7. Lopez (SS)
8. Schneider (C)
9. Redding (P)

I'd like to start Church vs the Righty, but if I recall Correia is a sinkerballer and Ryan hasn't been good against guys with good off-speed stuff. More importantly Pena has been off for 4 days and needs to get back in the line-up.

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 2:41 PM | Report abuse

A 40HR guy not named Dunn, possibly a CF, and some defensive help in the middle of the infield.

I miss anything?

Posted by: lowcountrynatsfan | August 31, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

If the Reds don't pick up Dunn's option for next year does he become a FA? If we signed him the Reds wouldn't get our top pick, since top 15 picks are protected, but would they get some of our picks or just sandwich picks?

How much would it take to sign Dunn and how long a contract would he need?

If we have Dunn and WMP for next year would Kearns then play CF?

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather have Griffey than Dunn if we are continuing to plunder Cincinnati and its diaspora.

Posted by: lowcountrynatsfan | August 31, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Personally I'd rather promote from within, maybe Maxwell will be big if he's called up and/or in ARI fall ball. I thin WMP and Kearns in the corners makes more sense than Kearns in CF to make room for another 100-150 SO guy.

That said I think Dunn is a done deal (pun intended) if he is available.

Posted by: estuartj | August 31, 2007 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it is a Dunn deal. I think most, if not all, of our off-season moves will be on the minor league roster. It's time to start stocking the farm for the upcoming season.

Posted by: Section 506 (After moving) | August 31, 2007 3:47 PM | Report abuse

I think the biggest thing is, Dunn WANTS to be here, and I remember reading he was DISSAPOINTED that he wasnt traded here at the deadline. He loves his buddy Kearns, heck, 1/2 the entire organization.

Posted by: Andrew S. | August 31, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty happy with all the current announcers, though I'm a little cool to Jageler because he's too Boston-oriented. But that's me. The only way I'd change the crew would be if I could somehow magically bring Harry Kalas and Rich Ashburn, circa 1986, into the booth. They were great on Phillies games.

Posted by: Vincent | August 31, 2007 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the opportunity to weigh in, Barry. I haven't read the comments of other blogsters (was out gallivanting with natsfan1b and now am getting ready to go see the P-Nats and the WFSDC -- yeehaw!).

I've listened to almost every game since 2005 on the radio (unless I was at a game or they were on tv 20 or Fox). Thus, I'm more familiar with the radio team. As I've mentioned before, I love Charlie and Dave. I enjoy their banter as well as their calling of the games. I'd love to see them have a multi-year contract. My only quibble, as previously noted on this blog, is that I'd like a tad bit less enthusiasm on the home run calls for opposing players than for our guys. It seems to me that they've been more restrained in that regard lately, though.

I've not seen any of the tv broadcasters that much, as noted, but I'm a little more biased towards having a former pitcher rather than a position player as the color guy. I'm fine with both Carpenter and Sutton (it would be great to hear Schneider rather than Snyder when they are referring to our #1 backstop, but that's a minor quibble).

Thanks for listening!

Posted by: natsfan1a | August 31, 2007 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I love the radio guys. As a lifelong Phillies fan who is now a conflicted Phillies and Nationals fan, I naturally compare the Nats broadcasters with those of the Phils. The Phillies current broadcasters are woefull, and make me appreciate the Nats guys even more.

Slowes can and should be allowed to grow into the comfortable, familiar and reasurring longstanding voice of the team. Our kids should grow up with him like those in St. Louis grew up with Jack Buck or those in Detroit grew up with Ernie Harwell, or the way I grew up with Harry Kallas and Richie Ashburn. Charlie Slowes is terrific--though I wish he would tone down the bang zooms, which I have never liked that much.

The TV guys are fine as well, but if anyone new is to be brought in, the Nats should consider Scott Graham, who was inexplicably let go by the Phillies after last season. He was well on his way to being the new voice of the Phillies with Harry Kallas in decline, and would be a great replacement for Carpenter if he does not return.

Posted by: Ed in Alexandria | August 31, 2007 6:04 PM | Report abuse

new barry posts up, people...

Posted by: Anonymous | August 31, 2007 6:57 PM | Report abuse

When Jon Miller and Joe Angel were a team in Balto, that was for me the ultimate radio kick. Smart, funny, and great voices for the electronic medium.

Not one of the Nats TV/radio team have really good voices for the medium, but of the four, Dave Jageler comes close. Slowes would be acceptable if: (1) he stopped giving his screed of meaningless statistics for every batter while the game is going on. He is so intent on spewing the stuff that he frequently will miss reporting on the actual game events in order to finish his statistical rant. and (2) Jageler got equal billing and play-by-play time.

I do not like announcers who scream into the microphone for something as banal as a solo home run, and Slowes does that every time a Nats player hits one. Strictly bush. I doubt if Ken Singleton screams every time ARod hits one out--but, hey, we are not New York.

My take overall is that the tv-radio presentations of the Nats are banal and sub-par, and help account for the falling attendance. This includes the scatter-shot availability of the offerings. An unbelievably lame effort by a start-up business.

Posted by: JohnR(VA) | August 31, 2007 7:43 PM | Report abuse

It seems that I'm in the minority here, I like Bob Carpenter and I wish that they had kept Tom Paciorek. We need HD!
The only one that the Nationals should be thinking about replacing is the person responsible for not locking in Charlie Slowes and Dave Jageler to a long term deal yesterday. I enjoy the humor and their insights, please sign them now! Keep it on the current stations, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Posted by: NatMan | August 31, 2007 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Just to echo what most have said--Charlie is excellent. I live on the Hill, don't have cable much less DirectTV, and 20 comes in pretty spotty, so the TV broadcasts are pretty much unavailable. But I listen to the radio regularly and Slowes is very good. I also watch a good bit of and I would put Slowes easily in the top half of announcers in MLB. His classic calls--the Logan "what was he doing?"; the Zimmerman game winner against the YANKEES last July 4 (a game I was at, and to the Yankees fans sitting in my section, you still don't have enough pitching, and you never did get your hands on Soriano, did you???); the Nationals 10-game winning streak in year one--those are the ones I think of right off. One from each of the seasons the Nats have been around. Not bad.

To the extent I have watched the TV braodcast (mostly on as I said 20 doesn't come in very well at Eastern Market), and those guys haven't really done anything for me. The just seem to have less of a presence.

I grew up in Chicago, and for the love of god no one please think for 1 minute of giving us anyone anything like Harry Caray. Half the time not paying attention to the game, slurring speech, this bizarre tendency to tell us how to pronounce a player's name when spelled backwards, nevermind that he couldn't pronounce half the team's name spelled frontwords (in a decade he never learned how to say "Shawon").

One contructive comment for every announcer in the league (and for the WP). There's not nearly enough on how and what the pitchers are throwing. It still amazes me that the paper (not even the media guide on tells you what the pitchers throw. How hard would it be to print in the game previews what each pitcher throws? Why can't the game announcers tell us what pitchers tend to throw in different situations, whether it's working or not? Half the announcers don't tell you anything but the most obvious (fast ball, "off-speed," ball, strike, and the ultimate non-analysis "he's found (or lost) his groove").

Posted by: Steven Biel | September 1, 2007 4:54 PM | Report abuse

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