Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: AdamKilgoreWP and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Sports and Redskins  |  RSS

The Mitchell Report

When former Senate majority leader George Mitchell holds a press conference in midtown Manhattan in an hour, there will be no shortage of questions, questions that will then be repeated at later press conferences with Commissioner Bud Selig and, even later, MLBPA chief Donald Fehr.

But what will people remember from today? They'll remember who is named. Names that you expected. Names that surprise you. Big names, tiny names.

When the report comes out -- and it's supposed to be around 300 pages long -- there will be much discussion about what having your name in the report means. But it does, an hour before its release, seem like it'll be a hard thing to shake.

With that, I'll leave you to discuss the names that surprised you and the ones you expected -- and what it might mean. I'll try to resurface in this space by the end of the day.

One minor Nats note: The club has not expressed interest in Mark Prior, at least not yet. Agent John Boggs said he had calls from five teams last night, but Washington wasn't among them.

By Barry Svrluga  |  December 13, 2007; 12:56 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Colome avoids arbitration
Next: Clemens's Denial

Comments

Anyone suspect David Ortiz?

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I'm waiting more for the howls of protest from "wrongly" named players (or their attorneys), and how that will play out.

Posted by: cevans | December 13, 2007 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Has there been any intimation that suspensions could follow?

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Anyone suspect David Ortiz?

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 01:10 PM
_______________________________________

One suspects everyone.

Posted by: joemktg | December 13, 2007 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I'll be interested if any current Nats are named...

...and there is no way that Prior would sign with the Nats even if they do go after him. He'll have better offers in terms of money, location (home in CA) and opportunity

Posted by: Gibby | December 13, 2007 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Patterson and Ryan Church, for example, would have surprised me, as players in a position to need the "help." Livo, Jose Guillen, no surprise, same reason.

I'm wondering which trainers (who will be suspect, if not obvious, by implication once the list is out) will take a fall behind this. It's lot easier to fire them than Big Papi.
And speaking of all the injured, how are training and rehab methods going to cope with what one presumes will be increased scrutiny? Will it affect roster decisions, e.g., on who is expected to "play through" injuries?

Posted by: CE | December 13, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Livo on steroids? More likely he's addicted to donuts.

Posted by: swanni | December 13, 2007 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Oh and seeing Albert Pujols on the supposedly leaked list in the last thread did surprise me.

Posted by: Gibby | December 13, 2007 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Funny you should mention him. I had Livo as my sleeper pick in my Mitchell Report fantasy draft.

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Since you asked, reposted from a previous thread:
*************


Supposedly here is the list (and yes, Prior is on it as are a few ex-Nats). Of course, this all unconfirmed until 2 pm:
Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood
Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 11:18 AM

Posted by: cevans | December 13, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Interesting that Pete Rose isn't there.

Posted by: CE | December 13, 2007 1:27 PM | Report abuse

wait, this is post-2002. Nevermind.

Posted by: duh, Chazz | December 13, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Carried over, enquiring mind here.

**********
Question to consider: CS/SBA vs. PB/WP
Obviously these are pitcher-dependent stats to a significant degree, and not necessarily proportionately so (a given pitcher could be terrible at holding runners close, but with very good control, or few 59' curve balls, and thus few PB/WPs). That said, it looks like Lo Duca is a full pitch per game better than Schneider was on keeping the ball in front of him, and thereby not allowing a runner to advance. It seems to me that should mitigate his worse Stolen Base Against significantly.

*******
For those of you who want to compare Schneider, Lo Duca, and Olivo catching skills, conveniently the default innings sort for 2007 has them in a row (5-6-7 in innings caught).
Caught Stealing % - Schneider and Olivo - 28%, Lo Duca 19%.
Stolen base against/game - Lo Duca is about .20 higher than the others.
Wild Pitch and Passed Ball/game - Lo Duca .240, Schnieder .370, Olivo .610....
Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 09:55 AM

Posted by: cevans | December 13, 2007 01:08 PM

Posted by: ce | December 13, 2007 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Which team is going to come out looking the worst here if this leaked report is accurate?

The Orioles have Brady Anderson, Brian Roberts, Miguel Tejada, Jason Grimsley, Jay Gibbons, Albert Belle, Jerry Hairston, Rafael Palmeiro, and Sammy Sosa on that list.

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Angelos was on the juice.

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I presume the Mets would look really bad...

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Is it too vigilante-esque to boo everyone whose name shows up in the report next year?

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

it's hard to look at it in terms of "which team looks worse." partially because of all of the movement in baseball, but also because i see this as a failing of baseball overall, not an individual team issue. unless, of course, you find the team is actually involved directly in providing PEDs.

Posted by: 231 (other 506) | December 13, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

mmmmmm ... donuts....

---

Livo on steroids? More likely he's addicted to donuts.

Posted by: Livo | December 13, 2007 1:41 PM | Report abuse

MLB always wakes up in the morning with mud butt. this report does not accomplish anything except potentially alienating more fans, enraging a generation of baseball players, and darkening the cloud.

the commissioner/owners/FO sect needs to take one on the chin and move on. the NFL doesnt get stuck with such a negative situation. get suspended 4 games for testing positive, come back, make a play, all if forgiven.

this list of names will not clear up anything. and it will not lead to a more thorough investigation. everyone is on something. no outrage over the golden boys of years past taking greenies? its the same thing. its a new age: of medicine and of information sharing. but baseball players are people. and people choose the paths that gain them the greatest rewards for the least amount of effort.

move forward. admit the past, everyone is at "fault". this just seems to be pure theatrics for the media and window dressing for the product.

Posted by: theraph | December 13, 2007 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Nomar Garciaparra and Albert Pujols were my big surprises.

Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Nomar's presence really surprised you?

Posted by: Brian | December 13, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Nomar's the poster boy for Karmic justice in steroids. He pushed his body way beyond what it could sustain, and it broke down on him as a result.

Posted by: joebleux | December 13, 2007 1:52 PM | Report abuse

theraph, in an interview with Jim Bouton about two years ago he made a great point about greenies. Greenies supposedly enhance what you already have (neither he nor I actually believe that), but steroids try to give you something you don't yet have.

The Golden Boys need to be smacked around a bit for their racism and misogynism, but their substance abuse and drug use was qualitatively different than in the steroids era.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 1:52 PM | Report abuse

All I want to hear from Selig is: "All players listed in the report are banned for life and effective March 29, 2008 I will be resigning as commissioner."

Posted by: ChrisC | December 13, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Manny Alexander also was an Oriole. At least when the Yankees and Red Sox had guys on the juice, they were good. What's the Orioles excuse?

Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Apparently Lo Duca wrote a check to the steroid distributor.

Posted by: swanni | December 13, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse

At least when the Yankees and Red Sox had guys on the juice, they were good. What's the Orioles excuse?
Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007

------------------------

I'm guessing that Angelos overspent on some designer 'roids that had big names and flashy reputations but ultimately turned out to be useless.

Posted by: LA Nats | December 13, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Angelos is not on anything that enhances his performance.

Posted by: swanni | December 13, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Lo Duca is NAMED in the Mitchell Report. It is available at http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf. The report includes a copy of a check signed by Lo Duca.

Posted by: FA Mishap | December 13, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

George Mitchell: "It's about the children"

Give me a break, George.

Why are steroids bad? Same reason all other cheating is bad. They mean you're lame because you have to cheat at a game.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

I like the take of the washpost article this morning. Rather than focus on mass punishments, finger pointing and chest beating, this is more the purging of an era.

Air it all out, everyone take their lumps (including Selig, I'm sure), and then we all move on with a fresh start in 2008, with everyone, I mean everyone, having a clear understanding of the boundaries.

Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007 2:12 PM | Report abuse

What page do the names start on?

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Just skimmed through the report. Mike Stanton, Nook Logan, and former Nat Gary Bennett were surprises. Lo Duca was not.

Posted by: DC Sports Chick | December 13, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Nook Logan?

So much for these drugs being "performance enhancing"

Posted by: natsguy | December 13, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Nook Logan? My faith in the integrity of the game is SHATTERED!!! Nook!!!! NO!!!!!!!

Seriously, how much more pathetic can you get than Nook Logan!

Posted by: Icarus | December 13, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

p. 208 of the report:

Paul Lo Duca
Paul Lo Duca is a catcher who has played with three teams in Major League
Baseball since 1998, the Los Angeles Dodgers (7 seasons), Florida Marlins (2 seasons), and
New York Mets (2 seasons). He has appeared in four All-Star games.
Todd Hundley referred Lo Duca to Radomski when Lo Duca played for the
Dodgers. Radomski estimated that he engaged in six or more transactions with Lo Duca. In
some transactions, Radomski sent the performance enhancing substances by overnight mail to
Lo Duca's home or to the Dodgers clubhouse and Lo Duca sent Radomski a check a week or so
later.

Posted by: JennX | December 13, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

My faith in the integrity of steroids is shattered.

Nook, I always stood up for you on this chat, but you are LAME.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Maybe that explains why he got the axe and Langerhans didn't?

Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Paul Lo Duca and Nook Logan...

Posted by: mwyow | December 13, 2007 2:24 PM | Report abuse

BTW, many of the names on the above "leaked" list are not in the report. Type control-F and type in a name to check. Found: Paul Lo Duca. NOT found: Nomar, Pujols, Nixon, etc. It is pretty irresponsible to post a list like that without substantiation.

Posted by: JennX | December 13, 2007 2:25 PM | Report abuse

re: Nook-- then why can't he hit home runs?! why is he so damn scrawny?!

Posted by: JennX | December 13, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

506 wrote:

"My faith in the integrity of steroids is shattered.

Nook, I always stood up for you on this chat, but you are LAME."


Very funny!

Posted by: Wigi | December 13, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

This is great

_______________
My faith in the integrity of steroids is shattered.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 02:21 PM

Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I won my Mitchell Report fantasy league!

Thank you, Brian Roberts and Miguel Tejada!

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Maybe that explains why he got the axe and Langerhans didn't?
Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007


-------------------------

That and the fact that Langerhans is left-handed.

Gary Bennett, though? Makes you wonder how bad some of these guys would have sucked if they hadn't been on the juice.

Posted by: LA Nats | December 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

The report is available on line at MLB.com as an Adobe Acrobat file. You can scan the document for names if you have the free reader. Some of the leaked names do not seem to be in there (Pujols) unless the scan did not pick them up.

Posted by: mwyow | December 13, 2007 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Skimming here, but looks like Lo Duca is also mentioned repeatedly for hooking up others... making the connection to Radomski on behalf of Gagne and Herges at least. What a swell guy! A real gamer!

Posted by: JennX | December 13, 2007 2:32 PM | Report abuse

A clubhouse leader, you might say!

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Talk show hosts are going to have a field day.

Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

mwyow, looks like a lot of people on that "leaked" list -- including Pujoles -- aren't mentioned in the report. If I were the people who first published that list, I'd do my best to stay out of Albert's way.

Posted by: LA Nats | December 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

The players used checks and money orders? Seriously, how dumb is that!?!

Posted by: BT | December 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

In all fairness, the guy who posted it here, did give us a disclaimer...
_______
Of course, this all unconfirmed until 2 pm:

Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 11:18 AM

Posted by: NatsNut | December 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"If I were the people who first published that list, I'd do my best to stay out of Albert's way."

He might be in a 'roid rage!

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Can we back out of the deal with Lo Duca? Some sort of morals clause? Cuz it sure looks like he's not gonna get any better than last year.

Posted by: SF Fan | December 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

PUJOLS is not in the report. Not sure where this rumor started.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, the list above is a bit off. It came off of about 15-20 blogs around the internet. Chuck Knoblauch and a few other guys (Larry Bigbie...another Oriole) is listed.

Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

The Nook excerpt:

Nook Logan is an outfielder who has played in Major League Baseball since 2004
for the Detroit Tigers and Washington Nationals.
Rondell White, a Tigers teammate, referred Logan to Radomski. Radomski stated
that he sold Logan one kit of human growth hormone just before federal agents searched
Radomski's house in December 2005. Radomski mailed the package to Logan, who paid by
money order. Radomski recalled having between six and eight conversations with Logan about
the use of performance enhancing substances. In the course of one of these conversations, Logan
confirmed that he had received the shipment from Radomski. Radomski still had Logan's phone
number in his cell phone directory at the time of his final interview with me and provided me
with the phone number.
In order to give Logan the opportunity to respond to these allegations, I asked him
to meet with me; he declined.

Posted by: Scott in Shaw | December 13, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Ok, Bennett is named, but it's for purchasing HgH in 2003, before it was banned. Just sayin'! I was surprised to see his name and Nook Logan's, though.

Posted by: misschatter | December 13, 2007 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Also, Guillen placed an order in June '05 while with the Nats.

Posted by: Scott in Shaw | December 13, 2007 2:41 PM | Report abuse

by the way, the list above is incomplete and, I think, wrong. At least when I did a search of the pdf, the only time I hit Garciaparra was in an article discussing a trade. I did not find a reference to evidience against him. Am I right, or did my word search mis a caption or something?

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 2:41 PM | Report abuse

LoDuca is all over this report. Ugly stuff.

Can't believe Nook is on there!

Posted by: 16th and Irving | December 13, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

The Nationals have signed Willie Harris and Rob Mackowiak today. Both are left-handed. Harris has primarily played CF, LF and 2B in the majors. Mackowiak has played all three OF spots and 3B (plus a little 2B)

Posted by: Brian | December 13, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

You might have missed several posts above this one that pointed this out.

*******
by the way, the list above is incomplete and, I think, wrong. At least when I did a search of the pdf, the only time I hit Garciaparra was in an article discussing a trade. I did not find a reference to evidience against him. Am I right, or did my word search mis a caption or something?

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 02:41 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Anyone check out Nook Logan on there?

Posted by: kryptoNATS | December 13, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Scott - That was probably right before the Angels game where he went nuts...

Posted by: BT | December 13, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

BIGBIE is a big NARC in the report.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I now look at that picture of Lo Duca on the Nationals landing page and think he's saying, "Yay, my shipment of HGH arrived!"

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Where'd you find that? Nothing on the Nat's site or Google News...

The Nationals have signed Willie Harris and Rob Mackowiak today. Both are left-handed. Harris has primarily played CF, LF and 2B in the majors. Mackowiak has played all three OF spots and 3B (plus a little 2B)

Posted by: Brian | December 13, 2007 02:43 PM

Posted by: Where? | December 13, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

You're not missing anything, Jon. Nomar's not in the report. Neither is Pujoles or a lot of the rumored names from earlier today.

Posted by: LA Nats | December 13, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

It's there
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20071213&content_id=2324933&vkey=pr_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

Posted by: Brian | December 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Yup, the Angels series started on June 14.
___________________________
Scott - That was probably right before the Angels game where he went nuts...

Posted by: BT | December 13, 2007 02:45 PM

Posted by: Scott in Shaw | December 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

All this just comes from Kirk Radomski. This is really just the tip of the iceberg.

You hear that, Brady Anderson?

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Pretty much all the info came from Kurt Randomski (the Mets guy) and McNamee (Clemens' boy). Without Randomski, I don't think there would be much to report. Also, David Segui looked like he got about a dozen people on the stuff either directly or indirectly.

Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

This is a terribly disappointing list of names, on the one hand. Not a lot of juicy, explosive fingerings that would permanently sink the steroids market and shock the sport into change.

On the other hand, if so many of these flops were in on it, how many more big fish are out there? This selection of cheaters really makes it clear how pervasive steroids use was.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

A quick skim seems like Mitchell was able to dig deep into a few teams because of cooperating witnesses - Radomski, McAnamee, the whole Balco thing, etc . . . Some teams will seem dirtier than others because they had a club house guy who basically could be squeezed for information, while others seemed to have no one clear cooperating source. It takes a leap of faith to say that a club is clean just because they have few names discussed.

Also, when this shakes out, i wonder if there will be a disproportinate number of Latin American ball players. It has been pointed out that the post 2005 suspension list seems to be disproportionate, and it has been suggested that supplement labeling in the Carribean and Central America is suspect, leading to unintentional violations.

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 2:54 PM | Report abuse

This is from a Dodgers meeting regarding LoDuca in Oct. 2003:
"Steroids aren't being used anymore on him. Big part of this.
Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.
. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives."

Maybe Boswell wants to recant his vision of LoDuca spraying linedrives all over the new park.

Posted by: JohnDC | December 13, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Brian

Posted by: Found It! | December 13, 2007 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Comment from my Cubs-fan girlfriend on Nook...

"I guess some things just aren't fixable no matter how many drugs you take, like talent."

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Wow -- Mackowiak and Willie Harris. We definitely have surplus bats now. I wonder who Jim's getting ready to trade?

Posted by: LA Nats | December 13, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Bonds named? I am shocked. Shocked, I say.

Posted by: Wallpass | December 13, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Tough 24 hours for Nook Logan.

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 3:04 PM | Report abuse

And they say all the guns and drugs going to New York are coming through Virginia. Now we know the truth - they're coming through Camden Yards!

Posted by: Section 319 (late of 426) | December 13, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Here are a few Orioles listed: David Segui, Larry Bigbie, Brian Roberts, Jason Grimsley, Gary Matthews Jr., Jay Gibbons, Jerry Hairston, Rafael Palmeiro, Gregg Zaun, Jack Cust, Tim Laker, Todd Williams, Kent Mercker, Howie Clark, and Miguel Tejada.
Looks like you have a decent starting lineup. Need more starting pitching though and a third baseman.

Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Here's the full quote from the LA Dodgers officials regarding Lo Duca in the Mitchell Report:

"Steroids aren't being used anymore on him. Big part of this. Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives.. . . Can get comparable value back would consider trading. . . . If you do trade him, will get back on the stuff and try to show you he can have a good year. That's his makeup. Comes to play. Last year of contract, playing for 05."

So apparently it's in his makeup to resume taking performance enhancing drugs upon being traded? That's coming to play?

Maybe he'll "get back on the stuff and try to show you he can have a good year" in the new park. Hooray!

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Between the Orioles and Nook Logan, the only thing this report proves is that steroids don't do squat for performance.

Posted by: Wigi | December 13, 2007 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I guess a lot of us were searching for names at the same time and went up with the same comment on the leaked faux-list.

A quick search of the 2007 World Series winners shows none of the batting order were named, nor were Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, or Santana ;-) Seems like the Sox cleaned their act around 2000 (Manny Alexander's car foudn with paraphrenalia in it) or so as far as active users. however, the current regime seemed to weigh 'roid rumors before they signed brendan donnelly and traded for gagne. Seemed like they thought the guys were off roids and specualted whether they'd lose their abiltiy to bounce back after pitching.

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I did order the HGH, but I broke the wrong way going to the post office & never got to it.

Posted by: Nook Logan | December 13, 2007 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Senator Mitchell is director of the Boston Red Sox. I'm not accusing him of anything, I'm just saying.

-----

Seems like the Sox cleaned their act around 2000 (Manny Alexander's car foudn with paraphrenalia in it) or so as far as active users.

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't surprise me that a lot of players named are marginal, league-average kinds of guys - to me, I think that's where the pressure must be greatest - not in the difference between making $2M a year or $5M, but in the "Am I gonna make the 25-man roster or not?" Same reason I'm not surprised to see a fair number of relief pitchers, either. If they break down, there's a chance they wouldn't make it back.

Posted by: Marc | December 13, 2007 3:18 PM | Report abuse

signing mackowiak and harris sure makes our MI guys a little more tradeable now. sadly, neither of them play enough SS, which means it's not quite as flexible *which* MI could be traded. on the flipside, we have a lot more flexibility in OF or corner IF trades, if we wanted to.

Posted by: 231 (other 506) | December 13, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

So we're collecting outfielders now: Dukes, Milledge, Kearns, Pena, Langerhans, Mackowiak, Langerhans and Harris (and Maxwell and Casto if you want to throw them in). Trader Jim has to be moving someone, right?

Posted by: John | December 13, 2007 3:24 PM | Report abuse

so, Jose Canseco wasn't lying (or stretching the truth) when he wrote his book? Next you're going to tell me that there's no Santa Claus ...

Posted by: e | December 13, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

You got to love the O's 2004 opening day line-up you got Palmeiro at first, B-rob at 2nd, Miggy at short, Gibbs in right, Biggs in left and David Segui as DH. I think they cut Matthews jr. just before that and Harriston was hurt or they could have had an all roid line-up. For the most roided out team of the era how could they be soo bad? And clearly Nook needed the roids to stay stay in the league since he just got cut maybe Baltimore is looking for a center fielder now.

Posted by: Andrew | December 13, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Of course, maybe Nook needed the HGH because he is smaller than my ten-year old brother.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I caught a Nook Logan foul ball this year. Should I mark it with an asterisk?

Posted by: e | December 13, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I don't mean to be cynical, but I don't think we can say that anyone has "cleaned up their act." I agree with the poster who said that certain teams would look worse because of who the sources happened to be.

We all knew steroid use was rampant. None the names surprise me. I know all of it was coming. Still though I find myself incredibly sad about all this. It's really awful that the culture of baseball got to the point that it was pretty much acceptable to use and almost necessary in order to compete.

I'm sure that there are still lots of guys using HGH. I hope they can eventually get all this cleaned up.

Posted by: #4 | December 13, 2007 3:35 PM | Report abuse

"I caught a Nook Logan foul ball this year. Should I mark it with an asterisk?"

e, you win, I'm dying of laughter.

FWIW, I say you shoot it into space

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Today's news gives a whole new slant to Charlie Slowes's third most famous line, after "Bang Zoom go the fireworks!" and "Another Curly W is in the books!" Here it is, in case you've forgotten it:

"WHAT was Nook Logan THINKING? WHAT was he WATCHING? WHERE was he GOING?"

You know, guys do get kinda panicked when they think they've dropped their stash somewhere...

Posted by: Section 419+1 | December 13, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Right. This report does not exonnerate anyone. Not being named does not mean a player did not use performance-enhancing drugs.

-----

I don't mean to be cynical, but I don't think we can say that anyone has "cleaned up their act." I agree with the poster who said that certain teams would look worse because of who the sources happened to be.

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Question: why is the Post's current lead story on the Mitchell report being reported by the Post's FOOTBALL reporter, Mark Maske? No offense to Mr. Maske, but why wouldn't one of the Post's crack BASEBALL reporters be covering this story?

Posted by: mbw | December 13, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

john, you can't view all of those guys as "OF" only. mackowiak and harris are both utility guys who play at least a couple of infield positions as well as the OF.

still, it gives us plenty of room to trade from a number of positions. and a ton of flexibility during the seasons for switches and injury protection.

Posted by: 231 (other 506) | December 13, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Also, Casto's natural position is third base, and he took some practice at first in Spring Training this year.

-----

john, you can't view all of those guys as "OF" only. mackowiak and harris are both utility guys who play at least a couple of infield positions as well as the OF.

Posted by: John in Mpls | December 13, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

e writes:

"I caught a Nook Logan foul ball this year. Should I mark it with an asterisk?"

By catching, do you mean that you reached over the railing as a feeble grounder rolled to a stop, or that the ball girl tossed it to you?

(not intended as a criticism of your catching, but rather, Nook Logan's hitting)

Posted by: Wigi | December 13, 2007 3:47 PM | Report abuse

now i'd like the NFL to submit themselves to the same report...

Posted by: longterm | December 13, 2007 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Good luck with that. It would be a shorter report to detail those who DON'T use performance-enhancing substances.
_________________________
now i'd like the NFL to submit themselves to the same report...

Posted by: longterm | December 13, 2007 03:49 PM

Posted by: Scott in Shaw | December 13, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

i think you can presume you won't see casto at the major league level this year. there isn't room for him and he didn't exactly play his way onto the team last year.

Posted by: 231 (other 506) | December 13, 2007 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I think it's a safe bet that Barry, Sheinin, and others are busily working the phones for the stories that will run in tomorrow's 35 cent edition. What? Lo Duca could not be reached for comment? Shocking!
_______
Question: why is the Post's current lead story on the Mitchell report being reported by the Post's FOOTBALL reporter, Mark Maske? No offense to Mr. Maske, but why wouldn't one of the Post's crack BASEBALL reporters be covering this story?

Posted by: mbw | December 13, 2007 03:43 PM

Posted by: JennX | December 13, 2007 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I said conflicting things (Compare 2:54 pm with 3:15 pm). Not the first time. But when the faux list was posted, it did look Sox heavy so I had to check, and felt less dirty than when I saw the faux list.

The Mitchell / Sox connection (unpaid director) will always lead to suspicions, but at least he discussed guys brought in under the current ownership - Jeremy Giambi, Donnelly, and Gagne.

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Before he started on the Redskins beat, Maske covered the Orioles so it's not like he knows nothing about the subject. I agree that the baseball guys are working their sources for the story that will run in tomorrow's paper.

Posted by: Salty | December 13, 2007 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I am going to put on my tinfoil hat and point out that the only Red Sox players listed on the report are those who used banned substances BEFORE heading to Boston. Several of his narratives, including those for Clemens and Gagne, conveniently stop the moment the players became Red Sox property. I couldn't find a single example in the report of a player, after 2002, using steroids while in a Red Sox uniform. Convenient, no?

Posted by: 408 / 204 | December 13, 2007 4:05 PM | Report abuse

All names mentioned should be banned for life by a Congressionally appointed baseball commissioner.

Posted by: 6th and D | December 13, 2007 4:05 PM | Report abuse

It would seem like a trade of Lopez, Johnson, and one of the right-handed hitted outfielders would be in order (and Cordero?), but what would the target be: Performance enhanced Brian Roberts? Starting pitching?

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 4:06 PM | Report abuse

can't trade lopez until there's a backup shortstop. guz and lopez are the only guys who've really played SS on the roster at the moment.

Posted by: 231 (other 506) | December 13, 2007 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Mark Maske was the long time Orioles beat reporter for the Post at the height of the steroid era.

Posted by: 6th and D | December 13, 2007 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Not so sure. Belliard, Boone, Harris, etc. may be adequate backups. What are we going to do will all these players, just sort it out in spring training?

"can't trade lopez until there's a backup shortstop. guz and lopez are the only guys who've really played SS on the roster at the moment."

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 4:13 PM | Report abuse


My Oh My!!

How steroids have affected the Washington Nationals involved:

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2007/12/current-or-former-washington-nationals.html

Posted by: TruthAboutIt.net | December 13, 2007 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Here's the full quote from the LA Dodgers officials regarding Lo Duca in the Mitchell Report:

"Steroids aren't being used anymore on him. Big part of this. Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives.. ."
-------------------------

I think this is the nastiest element to this mess - how institutionalized it all was (is).

Posted by: Kev | December 13, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

How can Selig, who made 100s of Millions of dollars on steroids, now take this holier than thou attitude? He knew what was going on and turned a blind eye until it started to hurt his bottom line. What a joke of a man he is. MLB needs a real Commissioner!

Posted by: Formerly Section 420 mjwies11 and now Section 320 mjwies11 | December 13, 2007 4:41 PM | Report abuse

does anyone know if the contract with Lo Duca was actually signed? Is there a period under law where it could be rescinded?

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Presumably you'd include the clubhouse guys, the scouts, the managers and GMs and owners and journalists and MDs and and ...

You think there's no pitching out there NOW? Hokey smoke, Bullwinkle.

That's just crazy talk.
*******
All names mentioned should be banned for life by a Congressionally appointed baseball commissioner.
Posted by: 6th and D | December 13, 2007 04:05 PM

Posted by: CEvans | December 13, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Since the first words out of Commissioner Selig's mouth at his press conference were NOT:

"I take full responsibility for my inaction during the height of the steroid era and announce my resignation as commissioner effectively immediately..."

That means that whatever he DID say was pure, unadulterated BULLCRAP.

Posted by: Juan-John | December 13, 2007 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Isn't the commissioner selected by the owners? Seems like Selig has been a huge success...

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 4:52 PM | Report abuse

I'd think Lo Duca's steroid rap would make him more attractive to the current Nat's front office, rather than less so.

Character? We don't need no stinkin' character!

Posted by: joebleux | December 13, 2007 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Interestingly, I don't see any Japanese players mentioned. Several non-Japanese who wound up playing there are discussed getting it in Japan, so it must be available. WBC champs, fwiw.
Clean, or more careful?

Posted by: cevans | December 13, 2007 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Kev, I had the same thought on reading that excerpt.

---

Here's the full quote from the LA Dodgers officials regarding Lo Duca in the Mitchell Report:

"Steroids aren't being used anymore on him. Big part of this. Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives.. ."
-------------------------

I think this is the nastiest element to this mess - how institutionalized it all was (is).

Posted by: natsfan1a | December 13, 2007 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Well, ya gotta admit, the Gagne the Sawx got was NOT the "same" Gagne they thought they were getting....
===============
I am going to put on my tinfoil hat and point out that the only Red Sox players listed on the report are those who used banned substances BEFORE heading to Boston. Several of his narratives, including those for Clemens and Gagne, conveniently stop the moment the players became Red Sox property. I couldn't find a single example in the report of a player, after 2002, using steroids while in a Red Sox uniform. Convenient, no?

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

5:14 PM - there's an interesting discussion of Gagne between Theo and a scout in '06. Apparently, they were wary of his reported use and had concerns about his ability to recover between outings. I guess they got over their qualms after he pitched effectively for a half a year with Texas. Big discussion of this on SonsofSamHorn.net.

Posted by: jon | December 13, 2007 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Before anyone is banned, there is the slight legal matter of due process.

------------------------------

All names mentioned should be banned for life by a Congressionally appointed baseball commissioner.

Posted by: 6th and D | December 13, 2007 04:05 PM

Posted by: psk | December 13, 2007 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"Before anyone is banned, there is the slight legal matter of due process."

Is that the part where you sharpen the pitchforks or light the torches?

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | December 13, 2007 5:45 PM | Report abuse

new post up

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2007 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Laughing out loud at that one, Sect. 506!

BTW, Barry has a new post.

---

Is that the part where you sharpen the pitchforks or light the torches?

Posted by: natsfan1a | December 13, 2007 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Lo Duca needs to go . . . he was as much a pusher as a user. After reading the report, I'm thinking that Dukes is actually a better risk to take.

Posted by: lowcountry | December 13, 2007 5:53 PM | Report abuse

OK, names named. Now will these very very very very rich men offer up a year or two of salaries, to do the correct thing, to smite the blight of unhealthy drug use, to admit it was wrong to use the steroids, to get the word out particularly to those whose bodies are still developing not to use these drugs, to give to charity, to accept responsibility.
Are they going to circle the wagons, to get us talking about the wrong issues, to fill the pockets of lawyers and PR firms.
Talk is cheap. Come on Barry, Michael, Roger et al et al et al give up some cash till it hurts.
Don't be cheap.

Posted by: Matt | December 13, 2007 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Re. the list of names that was posted here the other day, before the report came out, it seemed to have many inaccuracies. I don't know where it originated, but I think that it had been posted to a number of blogs. On a larger scale than this whole steroids mess, I feel that the instant info access aspect of the Information Age has lowered journalistic standards to some extent -- because of a rush to publish something and scoop other sources. One thing that I really appreciate about this blog is that it seems to be very careful about differentiating facts from rumors and about getting verification from reliable sources before posting something. So thanks for that, Barry.

Posted by: natsfan1a | December 14, 2007 11:31 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company