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Dukes in the lineup

I'm heading down to the clubhouse now, but I figured I'd post this first.

Washington
Guzman - 6
Dukes - 9
Milledge - 8
Young - 3
Flores - 2
Belliard - 5
Lopez - 4
Harris - 7
Lannan - 1

Pittsburgh
McLouth - 8
Sanchez - 4
Bay - 7
Doumit - 2
Nady - 9
LaRoche - 3
Bautista - 5
Wilson - 6
Snell - 1

By Chico Harlan  |  June 11, 2008; 3:35 PM ET
 
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Next: Zimmerman Out 4-6 Weeks -- Or Rest of Season

Comments

Please axe some questions and get some answers and update the blog before the game. KTHXBYE

Posted by: Winston Wolf | June 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Oh jeez...

My first thought upon seeing the line-up was:

"Duke's batting third?!? Who is this Washington guy, anyway?

Not even four o'clock yet. Yoicks... :-P

Posted by: Juan-John | June 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

It seems from MLB that it wasn't the celebration that got Acta angry. It has been reported that it was a misunderstanding and that everything is fine and I hope that is the case. Depending on what happened, Manny probably should have waited until later to address Dukes. I think that Dukes has come a long way and if this had been last year he would have thrown a punch or too. I see this as a good sign. Dukes is going to get crap for awhile. He did nothing wrong the other night to show up the ump. I just hope that if he gets hit tonight that he walks to first because if he doesn't things could get very ugly. I assume this has been addressed.

The only thing that I don't like is that dukes didn't slap his hand, maybe he was teasing, but if not that was really disrepectful and needs to be addressed.

Posted by: BRothbart | June 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

It's nice to see that Manny doesn't hold any grudges. But these younger guys have to understand sometimes their enthusiasm isn't going to be well taken by the umpires or their opponents. I remember earlier this year some of the Mets were complaining not specifically about the Nats but about other teams celebratory tactics. I laughed seeing that Jose Reyes has his own choreographer for his "Look at me" gyrations.

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 11, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Alright Belly, let's hope the defensive reflexes get back just as quick as the bat did last night.

Ronnie is going to lay out to the opposite of the bag, snag a rope, and throw out McLouth from his knees. Hey, I never thought the Nats would score over 5 runs again either, much less have a come-from-behind 9th.

Posted by: Corey | June 11, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Manny could always be testing him, too. I wouldn't put it past him. Savvy young manager, pushing some buttons, learning his limit, maybe even motivating his charge in the process.

Positive thoughts. Positive thoughts.

Posted by: Jimmy Tango | June 11, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I was just saying the other day that we are long overdue for some sort of Dukes incident. Acta's reaction clearly had nothing to do with the celebration, which was fairly muted considering it was a go-ahead run in the 9th. I thought the Milledge/Dukes interaction was kind of cute, actually. The mlb.com explanation makes a lot more sense (Dukes thought Acta snubbed him, Dukes overreacted to the perceived dissing, etc.).

By the way, Milledge is really growing on me. Yes he makes fielding mistakes and his average still isn't anything to write home about, but I do see a lot of joy for the game in him. Gotta love that.

Posted by: JennX | June 11, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Glad to see dukes is still in there. Good to see Lopez isn't completely relegated to the bench. Not surprising that Belliard is getting another call. Maybe we can still hope that we'll put some competitive games together.


Quick question: What do people think of a free agent left fielder who has shown the ability to get on base and hit for some power. A recent article from ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3437067) indicates that Bonds could now be had for a reasonable price. We have been a team of second chances. Bonds would put butts in the seats. He could give us a player who could go deep into counts and provide some offense from the left field position. This could quiet some naysayers who say that the Nationals completely avoid the free agent market. If he plays successfully this could be just what the Nationals need to sell tickets. If he could be had at a reasonable price this could be a viable option.

It would also provide bonds a shorter drive to any federal hearings that he would have to testify for.

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

@The only thing that I don't like is that dukes didn't slap his hand, maybe he was teasing, but if not that was really disrepectful and needs to be addressed.@

Watching the horrible online replay of the "incidents" [I confess: I bailed out on Ray Ray and Crapenter when the Bucs went back on top], I thought maybe they'd worked it out by the time the high-five/fist-banging occurred, and that *that* part was all fun. I'd like to think this is true.

With that being said, a one-way ticket to Columbus might still be in order . . . .


$%^#%$^ Dukes

Posted by: 241 Scott | June 11, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Your question was really just a build up to this zinger, wasn't it? Nicely done.

-----

It would also provide bonds a shorter drive to any federal hearings that he would have to testify for.

Posted by: John in Mpls | June 11, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Reposting a hardball times link from the previous "lineup" thread. It deals with building through the draft and player development systems. Bottom line is that it is quite hard to develop a lot of good talent through just the draft unless you are willing to be a higher budget team. It is similar to Boz's point this AM - spending builds a margin of safety. The link is a tough read, though, unless you havemore competence at economics than I do. I added a thought or two at the end of that lineup thread. JayB, LAC, Count Demoney - enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/beyond-moneyball-player-development-part-2/


Posted by: PTBNL | June 11, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

putting bonds in LF would actually make our LF defense worse, even when WMP is playing there.

Posted by: 231 | June 11, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

His range is terrible, but is it worse then Willy Mo's? He has a good arm still. He has good instincts. There's only one way to find out...

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, just read comments on the previous post and on the chat and it seems that the concensus is that the dressing down is from the "excessive" celebration. If that's so... what?? Two seconds of footwork and a hand-slap is excessive? This aspect of baseball drives me nuts. I also think it was great that Milledge high-fived the fans after his first HR in NY. People need to relax.

(BTW, if they want to do something to show more sportsmanship, I've always thought it was obnoxious that teams congratulate themselves with handslaps after a victory, and don't do handshakes with the opponents, as in soccer.)

Posted by: JennX | June 11, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"what happened between dukes and acta? any1 know? news showed them goin nose to nose in the dugout after the game after dukes refused to slap actas hand following the win. any1 know what happened?"

followed by this:

"seriously-- talk about whiffing. how do you miss the main story of the game that even the national news has? wow!"

= pure comedy

dk is a comedic genius.

in honor of dk, and the nats 1 game win streak, i will no longer use capital letters.
Posted by: Los Doce Ocho | June 11, 2008 2:06 PM

thank you. thank you very much. id like to thank my mom, ty cobb, elijah they call me mr dukes and of course austin ks just because no one mentions him anymore. and of course chico who cant type and report at the same time. thank you thank you.

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

JennX: Part/most? of the conflagration may have been Dukes' allegedly gesturing toward the opposing pitcher, like taunting him for giving up the runs. If so, that follows on the heels of the ump situation with Dukes last week.

Posted by: samantha7 | June 11, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I hate to say this, but Bob Ladsen's report explains what we saw the best. Needless to say, I'm still waiting for more information.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | June 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

the nats are really really close bygummit. alls we need is a new gm, mgr, hitting and pitching coach and players. we're this close.

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

I'd rather have Belly at second and Casto at third. I still think FLop needs a few more days off.

Posted by: e | June 11, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

'It's nice to see that Manny doesn't hold any grudges'

This decision has Jimbo written all over it. You can tell because Jimbo must have said he wanted Dukes and Lopez in the lineup.....Manny being passive aggressive took Pena out......

Posted by: JayB | June 11, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

That article mentions Jay Gibbons who I'd rather have than say Langerhans, Mo Pena and Kearns.

And please, please, please never put Felipe Lopez in the starting line-up again.

Posted by: booooooo | June 11, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

How can Manny be passive-aggressive with another Bowden pick, i.e., Pena? And I doubt Lopez is in high favor with anyone in the organization.

Posted by: samantha7 | June 11, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

That article mentions Jay Gibbons who I'd rather have than say Langerhans, Mo Pena and Kearns.

have you eva even watched an os game?

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

The whole Ladson version makes not sense.....in watching the video it seems clear that Acta was not talking about some snub of a greeting at the steps of the dugout. I think he was mad about the behavior and tried to wait till later to address it....Dukes forced the issue and did not show the due respect to his manager once the issue was aired in public.....You get a good idea of what is important to Manny in watching this play out on TV......Respect your manager. I do not think this team has ever had a player who did not give Acta his due......maybe Jose G. would not have been a good fit after all Boz....

Posted by: JayB | June 11, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

couple o suggestions since the people runnin the ship obviously dont know what the heck theyre doin----
1. get rid of lopez.
2. get rid of austin ks.
3. get rid of la puca and treestump and platoon nieves and flores.
4. keep batting elijah they call me mr dukes 2nd and milledge 3rd.
5. get rid of wily mo.
6. bring up dmax.
7. GET RID OF J.BOW!!
7. close your eyes, click your heels and pray pray pray this was all just a bad dream.

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I would agree with Bob L. and JayB that the video does not seem to jibe with Ladson's version.

Posted by: natsfan1a | June 11, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

the only move i consider terrible by bowden was the one everyone knew was terrible. lo duca, followed up with estrada. other than that i blame the players themselves for poor performance.

jmax is not the answer.

Posted by: longterm | June 11, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

[quote]His range is terrible, but is it worse then Willy Mo's? He has a good arm still. He has good instincts. There's only one way to find out...

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 4:09 PM [/quote]

i take it you didn't watch him play the OF last year? there were times "lumbering" would be a very generous way to describe how barry limped slowly toward a ball. he made dmitri look very athletic in the field. it was sad to watch, considering what he once was. his knees are absolutely shot.

and i'll pass on gibbons, too. his OPS last year was 620 (50 points below langerhans in DC, btw), and that was *on* the roids. and he's a statue in the field as well. at least langerhans can run and catch in the field and play all 3 OF positions.

Posted by: 231 | June 11, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

jmax is not the answer.
Posted by: longterm | June 11, 2008 4:45 PM

first off its dmax. second there are no answers short of bringin in utley, chipper etc. this team is light years from answers. we're talkin slight improvement. trying to make a shallow hole from a bomb crater. dig>!!

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"I hate to say this, but Bob Ladsen's report explains what we saw the best. "

Here's my revised theory: Manny's kind of simmering inside because his old school nature doesn't like the excessive celebration, but he decides not to say anything. He does deliberately ignore Dukes as he goes in the dugout. Dukes notices this, and slaps him on the butt (and maybe also says something), and this last bit of disrespect sets Manny off, and Dukes' response to Manny's lecture steams him up even more.

Too bad they weren't playing in Houston. I really need a grassy knoll in here somewhere to tie the whole thing together.

Posted by: joebleux | June 11, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

How come nobody says anything about the third name in that article, Nook? He hit in the 250s while he was with us, right? how wonderful would that be?

Posted by: SF Fan | June 11, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Good to see Manny didn't over-react and sit Dukes for tonights game. This was not a lack of hustle incident that would deserve a sit-down. After showing up the ump after his's walk-off HR last week I think Manny saw a pattern of bad sportsmanship by Dukes and decided to nip it right there for all to see. I'm sure what was said behind closed doors addressed all issues and there was no need for a public spanking. I'm sure some of the veterans like the Meathook also had a few words about dissing the boss. Manny has been very patient, at least publicly, with this young team but now he seems to be openly laying down the law about screw-ups as with Bergman and Flores the other night. Veterans don't need or respond to a kick in the pants but the youngsters require a firm hand. However I have no doubt if Dukes starts to become a bad apple he will be out on his ear. No way will Manny or Bowden let him poison the well.

Posted by: NatMan | June 11, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

NatMan,

Well they sure have let PLoD "poison the well" and haven't done anything about it.

Posted by: natsinthevalley | June 11, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

i ignored nook's name. i presume everyone else did as well.

who's dmax? i'm guessing jmax is justin maxwell, OF in AA harrisburg this season. not quite sure who dmax is.

Posted by: 231 | June 11, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

No way will Manny or Bowden let him poison the well.
Posted by: NatMan | June 11, 2008 5:01

yea heaven forbid they allow any more walk off hr celebrations. good thing they only have to worry about celebrations about once a month.

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I didn't say anything about Bonds' defense besides "Terrible" which i believe could also be an accurate descriptor or Willy Mo's D. At least bonds has an idea of where the ball will land. Clearly nobody else here can come up with much of a better idea then to fire the whole team, which still leaves us with the problem of not having anyone who can play. The best plan is to sit tight for 3 years until some of the kids are ready to start contributing and hope that they work out.

I am a full supporter of the Plan. I am iffy on bowden but i dont know how good the other options are. I think if anyone we need to replace him with people in house (think dana brown and mike rizzo). I'm all for Kvetching and moaning about how bad things are here and now, but try to come up with a constructive or creative answer beyond "fire them all" and you'll at least get some respect from me.

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

ps: fire vt nats fan.

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

what to do.
well we can bring up more players from our minor league team--by that i mean of course the cincinnati reds.
bwahahahahahah.

Posted by: dk | June 11, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

the trolls

Posted by: ignore them | June 11, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Count me among those who would love to see Bonds play left field for the Nationals the rest of the year. Unfortunately, even if the club was interested (and they are not), Barry would not come here. If/when it happens, it will be with a contender.

Posted by: Doctor Joe | June 11, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

just for fun, I thought I'd look up how the Nats have hit so far in June:

Guzman: .341/.341/.415 (41 AB)
Dukes: .281/.378/.531 (32 AB)
Milledge: .278/.333/.472 (36 AB)
Young: .400/.471/.667 (15 AB)
Flores: .250/.321/.500 (24 AB)
Belliard: .750/.750/2.250 (4 AB)
Lopez: .182/.333/.227 (22 AB)
Harris: .111/.200/.111 (9 AB)

Casto: .286/.423/.333 (21 AB)
Langerhans: .200/.294/.200 (15 AB)
Pena: .174/.174/.217 (23 AB)
Boone: .161/.206/.258 (31 AB)
Nieves: .125/.111/.125 (8 AB)

Tell me again why FLop is in there?

Posted by: e | June 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Sample size?

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Since I'm used to dealing with Thugs and Misfits from my days as the Head Football coach at VA Tech, I say fire Manny and bring me on board.

I will bring in Bonds and my beloved Vick brothers, to go along with Elijah, Lastings, Dimitri and Paul and we'll be competing for a National Championship...er...World Series Title before you know it.

Go Hokies...er...Nats.

Posted by: Frank Beamer | June 11, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Complements to O's Exec for not being too much of a troll, especially when he can legitimately gloat about how much better MacPhail's version of the "Plan" has worked than Stan's. Look at BA's Prospect Hot Sheet for the 1st 1/3 of the season. Wieters and Tillman are having two of the top 20 seasons for prospects in the minors per BA while MacPhail has also fielded an above .500 team at the major league level. Don't look at the list of the biggest busts in the minors so far unless you want to see South Capitol Street's "1st baseman of the future."

Posted by: Kudos | June 11, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

The nationals are not building on production they are building on talent and potential for the future. Belliard has no real use for this team in the long run. Yes his two home runs were great yesterday and yes the "spark" in the offense was nice, but he is 34 years old and we have him under control for this year and the next.

Lopez is considerably younger, considerably more talented, and only has this year to prove what he has to offer. If we let him rot on the bench then he will no doubt leave the team after this season and we will get nothing in return. If Lopez plays and shows that he can produce then we could possibly trade him to a contender looking for a middle infielder or perhaps when he leaves we could gain at least the small compensation of a compensatory draft pick. Belliard's value can then be determined later this season or next year. What sense would it make to play an older vet with years remaining on his contract while a younger, more talented player would remain on the bench and offer us little to nothing in the long run for his services.

Then again i'm also the guy advocating signing Barry Bonds so take that as you may.

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Awww... now that's just a low blow...


To be fair i dont use your posting names as ammunition. I simply try to build reasonable arguments based on facts and logic... what a strange concept.

But then again im the guy advocating the signing of Barry Bonds so take that as you may...

Posted by: VT Nats Fan | June 11, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

DUKES SMASH!

Seriously, I'm glad the MLB.com story came out, cause I was against Acta dusting up Dukes that bad over they're celebration.

Now, let's see if Ian Smell has any huevos and throws DOOKS!' way.

gnatsgnation.blogspot.com

Posted by: gnatsgnation.blogspot.com | June 11, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't mind signing Bonds. He would provide protection for everyone else in the lineup...

...from the ire of bloggers and the sensationalism of the press.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | June 11, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Reported on Washington Post Live ... Ryan Zimmerman out 4-6 more weeks. Then re-evaluated with the possibility of season ending surgery.

Posted by: Breaking News | June 11, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

It's a little bit easier to rebuild and create a better farm system when you:

1) pick ahead of the Nats every year.

2) don't have a roster pillaged of all of its premium players by MLB, thus not allowing the team to get premium prospects in return for its players.

Posted by: Hector Camacho | June 11, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Also, worth noting that the Giants farm system was in much better shape last year. So was the Orioles. Actually, so was everyone's.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | June 11, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

iF Breaking News is right, the Nats are in contention for the overall No. 1 draft selection next year.

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 11, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

"What sense would it make to play an older vet with years remaining on his contract while a younger, more talented player would remain on the bench and offer us little to nothing in the long run for his services."

Are you talking about Belliard and Lopez? Because you have me confused with the "more talented player" part.

Look, I was all for giving Lopez another shot this season and I was pleasantly surprised at how he had offered to play LF at the start of the season. He seemed to be back to his pre-Nats self. But lately, he has been dogging it on defense and on offense. He's not covering the bag, not hustling down the line and not trying to break up double plays. And, since his grand slam back in late April (his only homer so far this season), he has been absolutely putrid at the plate:

42 Games
150 AB
34 Hits
10 doubles
0 triples/home runs
9 rbi's
16 walks/28 strikeouts
.227 avg/.301 obp/.293 slg

No matter how you spin it, this is not a player that is going to bring a lot in return in a trade. And if he walks after this season? I won't lose any sleep.

And I'm not suggesting that Belliard be the everyday second basemen. I'm just saying that maybe Lopez needs to sit for a few days. While Belly was on the DL, he knew that he was going to play practically everyday since there wasn't anyone on the bench to play second (and please don't get me started on Harris). Now that Belly's back, maybe Lopez will start to feel afraid of losing some PT.

Posted by: e | June 11, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I have the news

Posted by: fake Mark Zuckerman | June 11, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Zim is out another 4-6 weeks and still might require season ending surgery.

Posted by: Bob L. Head | June 11, 2008 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Now serving post #1012

Posted by: in the main ballroom | June 11, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

dk: "the nats are really really close bygummit. alls we need is a new gm, mgr, hitting and pitching coach and players. we're this close."

Yep, but you forgot a new trainer.

Posted by: JohnR(VA) | June 11, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

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