Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: AdamKilgoreWP and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Sports and Redskins  |  RSS

UPDATE: Nationals Make 8-year, $160M Offer to Teixeira

That is the Nationals' offer to first baseman Mark Teixeira, according to two industry sources with knowledge of the offer.

From Jim Bowden: "We've made a very significant, concrete offer. He's our No. 1 priority."

From Scott Boras: "We've been working pretty well around the clock for a couple of days. We've had time to meet multiple times with multiple teams. But I've been through these before, and it could get done in a short period of time, and they could go well beyond the time frame of these meetings, too."

By Dave Sheinin  |  December 10, 2008; 8:42 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Everybody Take a Deep Breath
Next: Finally, Stuff Happens

Comments

ESPNNEWS reporting that the Nats offer to Tex is official.

8 years/160 million.

(for what it's worth)

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | December 10, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

ESPN is reporting that MLB.com is reporting, you mean.

Posted by: Uncle_Teddy | December 10, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Dave's new name is Buzz Killington.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

I take that last comment back.

8/160 it is.

btw, you guys got scooped by Bud Lubson. that's gotta hurt.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

I want to believe, I want to believe...

Posted by: joemktg1 | December 10, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

we're gonna have to raise this offer. I'd be shocked if we got him at this price.

plus the fact that our offer is the only one that has been made public REALLY worries me.

I hope someone at Nats Park has Adam Dunn on speed-dial.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Dave -- C'mon, if you're going to edit your post to take out something factual, at least make an acknowledgment about what you're changing.

Posted by: Uncle_Teddy | December 10, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

As stated previously, the devil is in the details of the contract offer. Also, Boros will play this bid against other teams (as expected), but will only come back for a final offer if he thinks his client can "break the bank" there.
Bottom line, the Nationals' will probably have to beat both the AAV & total contract values to land Teixiera, but at least the market now has a value.

Posted by: BinM | December 10, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

As stated previously, the devil is in the details of the contract offer. Also, Boros will play this bid against other teams (as expected), but will only come back for a final offer if he thinks his client can "break the bank" there.
Bottom line, the Nationals' will probably have to beat both the AAV & total contract values to land Teixiera, but at least the market now has a value.

----------

absolutely correct.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Gammons said that Boras is probably trying to create an opportunity for Man-ny to get signed. Apparently, if Tex signs with the Red Sox, not the Nats or Angels, then that leaves more options for Man-ny to sign. He mentioned that since the Nats are such serious players, that Man-ny's destination may well be the Nats, because if Tex were to sign with the Nats, then there wouldn't be anyone else particularly interested in Man-ny. So, the long and short of it is that Boras is jacking up the Red Sox price for Tex, he signs with them, and then the Nats get Man-ny because basically nobody else is interested. Voila, he gets both of his clients signed for maximum money.

Posted by: Brue | December 10, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

8 at 160. Just about the right price for the Nats. My guess (hope?) is that they would be willing to go another 2 years at the same rate (although at 37, Boros might feel that another more lucrative contract is possible, while at 39, no).

Posted by: Catcher50 | December 10, 2008 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Brue, Gammons wants Tex to go to the Red Sox, and you want Manny to come here.

I'll be taking that report with a grain of salt.

hopefully we've got a plan B lined up for First Base though.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:21 PM | Report abuse

My fear is that the initial 8/$160M offer didn't bluff anyone off. The Angels, Sawx, Yankees & O's all have the $$$$ to call-raise that number.
Sorry for all the poker analogies, but it's Vegas & this could be a no-limit game.

Posted by: BinM | December 10, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

Tex is 29. Manny is ancient enough that anything more than 2 years is ridiculous. Even tho I'm not for it, an argument can be made for the 8/160 offer to Tex. No logical argument can be made for the Nats trying to sign Manny (unless it's no more than what D'meat was signed for in '07!)

Posted by: nats24 | December 10, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

When Mark Teixeira comes to Washington, he will...forgive us our trespasses.

Posted by: NatsNut | December 10, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

The Bombers may actually not have the $. The CC deal and their disappointment with the drafted pitchers may mean that they will now spend more on arms. Manny, on the other hand, would be short term.

Posted by: Catcher50 | December 10, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

If he comes to a local team it will be the O's!!! The nats have no chance

Posted by: beas13 | December 10, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

8/160 isn't bad for the first public offer but I bet we will go higher. (pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease)

Posted by: NatsNut | December 10, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

That's not going to get it done, and the Lerners know that. They just want it on the record that they were willing to spend money.

Posted by: Tank2 | December 10, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Well I'm allowing myself to feel a bit excited about this finally. At the same time though, I'm trying to not set myself up for disappointment. God would I love to watch this guy anchor our lineup though...

Posted by: AlexL925 | December 10, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Ah, the Lerner family is just playing chicken with the big boys... just praying this little P.R. move pays off and somebody trumps the offer. Hey, um, so did you hear DaMeat Hook says he'll be ready to go by Spring!

http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/2008/12/no-bleeping-way.html

Posted by: TheNationalsEnquirer | December 10, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

That's not going to get it done, and the Lerners know that. They just want it on the record that they were willing to spend money.

--------

no it isn't, and hopefully the Lerners don't fold. they need to up the ante.

if they are truly Serious about getting Tex here, they NEED to have the high offer.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

I just can't imagine that the Nats would ever sign Manny. In this case I would praise the Lerners for being "cheap" if they don't sign Manny.

Posted by: CountDemoney | December 10, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

I believe a study of the last 40 years will show the Lerners to be among the toughest business people in America. They do not play to draw, or to lose. They play to win. I think we are going to get Teixeira.

Posted by: ThinkingOne | December 10, 2008 9:38 PM | Report abuse

>Brue, Gammons wants Tex to go to the Red Sox, and you want Manny to come here.

I'll be taking that report with a grain of salt.<

No, he specifically stated that if Tex went to the Nats, that Man-ny would not have a top offer. Believe me, I paid full attention. Look at it logically - if Tex doesn't go to the Sox, of course, neither does Man-ny. The Angels aren't offering enough years. The Dodgers withdrew their offer to Man-ny. The Yankees just extended an offer to AJ Burnett for 5 years, and they still need a third pitcher, so they're out. Basically, there's nobody left that's shown any interest in Man-ny. Boras wants top dollar for both clients, and if Tex signs with the Nats, he can't get it for Man-ny. Make sense?

Posted by: Brue | December 10, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

some interesting quotes by Boras at his little side show at the Ballagio... proximity to home and winning..."long term"... hmmm....

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

I can't stand Gammons repeatedly saying he expects Manny to come here. I certainly hope the Nats don't even begin to kick the tires on Manny if we don't get Tex. We do need to make sure we outbid everyone else and get Tex here. Signing Tex would be paramount for this club and a turning point that one day we'll all look back and say "where were you when... Tex signed!?"

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

I suspect talk of pursuing Manny Ramirez might just be our own Teixeira bargaining chip because it makes absolutely no sense otherwise.

Posted by: NatsNut | December 10, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Manny as a National - um, NO! His inital asking price was what, 6-yrs at $23M+? Baseline rumours have been in the 2-to-3 year, $17-$20M per range. Why would the Nationals' want a player who has a proven record of giving less than his best effort when he feels that he's either A) under-paid, B) under-appreciated by the FO, C) restricted by the FO over personal grooming, D) over-scrutinized by the press, E) over-critisized by the fans, or F) somehow slighted/offended by the lack of, or obsession with coverage of his behaviours?
He might put "butts in the seats" initially, but his history states that he needs to be somewhere besides here.

Posted by: BinM | December 10, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

>I can't stand Gammons repeatedly saying he expects Manny to come here.

Only thing he said in reference to that, is that nobody else is even remotely interested in Man-ny at a top price except the Nats, and even they can get him for less than he wants, because there will be no bidding competition for him.

Signing Man-ny isn't politically correct to the people who hold the plan so sacred, but 140 rbis never goes out of style. You'll be the same bunch that will be cheering your asses off when he carries the offense on his back, and Dukes ends up with 30+ homers because he's hitting behind Man-ny.

Posted by: Brue | December 10, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Brue is right. Manny has nothing on the table.

I'd offer him the exact same deal the Dodgers did. or close to it. I wouldn't offer more than 3 years for Manny.

but only if we don't land Tex.

then trade from our surplus of outfielders to get a first baseman.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Brue... you're right... If Manny lands in D.C. I'll be the first one lining up for a jersey! However, knowing how deep we're in on Tex now it would be a major disappointment to settle for Manny. BTW... Dukes hits 30HR this year w/ or w/out Tex/ManRam...

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Manny can certainly help us in the ticket sales, but in the lineup he's only gonna be good for us for 2, maybe 3 years.

so it would not be wise to give him a long-term (read: 4+ years) deal.

offer him 2, with an option for a 3rd.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

The hyphenation of Manny's name is really tired. Please stop.

As is your worship of him - Manny hasn't gotten 140 rbi since 2005, he isn't getting any younger, and a fair number of his PA came as DH for the Sox last year, no? SIgning a 36-year-old to a six-year contract makes no sense whatsoever...

Posted by: combedge | December 10, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Brue: If you, Ladson & Gammons say the Nats' are interested in Manny, does that make it so?

Posted by: BinM | December 10, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

The hyphenation of Manny's name is really tired. Please stop.

As is your worship of him - Manny hasn't gotten 140 rbi since 2005, he isn't getting any younger, and a fair number of his PA came as DH for the Sox last year, no? SIgning a 36-year-old to a six-year contract makes no sense whatsoever...

-----

he's not getting a six-year deal from anyone.

the ONLY deal he's seen this offseason is a 2-year deal with an option for a 3rd.

that's the absolute highest i'd go to acquire him. period.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

just theorycrafting here, with a positive spin:

what if we miss out on Tex, but we end up with both Manny and Dunn?

we can get Manny for 2 or 3 years. 2/45 or 3/60.

we could probably get Dunn for 4-5 years at a per-year dollar amount lower than Manny. I'm thinking 4/60 or 5/60.

that's 120 of the 180-200m we are looking to pay Tex. plus Dunn would play 1B.

could you live with that?

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

combedge, we'll get him to stop when you stop using RBI as a mark of a player's value.

Posted by: Uncle_Teddy | December 10, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

combedge, we'll get him to stop when you stop using RBI as a mark of a player's value.

--------

Oucheth.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

37 HR 102 R 121 RBI .332 AVG.

I don't want to be a Manny apologist, but who can argue with those stats from last season? What National came even remotely close to any of those numbers? Man Ram can straight up hit and would do wonders for our line up. However, I just don't think it makes much sense to off Manny a 3 year deal when we are still 2+ years away from winning. An 8 year deal for Tex is a totally different story and more than worth the investment. Tex could be the Cal Ripken for the Nationals. I think we're getting close!

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

I seriously hope the Lerners are actually willing to spend the money. Because up until now, I haven't seen anything that tells me they will.

Posted by: Juan-John | December 10, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Is everyone taking crazy pills?!?!

1.) How on earth does Teixeira signing with the Red Sox mean Manny will make more money? That. does not. make sense.

2.) Nobody minds 121 RBI one bit - but if a homer blasts in a somewhat empty stadium and no one is on base to make it home, does it make multiple ribbies?

3.) The very reason Teixeira is so fascinating is because he pays off now AND later. Manny and Dunn pay off now... but not later. The goal of this team is to make choices that pay off later.

4.) People who show up at the ballpark because they saw Manny Ramirez on SportsCenter are not necessarily the dedicated fanbase we are all craving.

5.) Draft picks are still important. You shouldn't give up a longterm benefit unless you plan on getting another longterm benefit in exchange.

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

When Mark Teixeira comes to Washington he will restore sanity to Nationals Journal.

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

506 - the rest of your points make lots of sense, but the last one...

I'm pretty sure that neither Manny or Dunn give draft picks. I know Dunn won't for sure, as the DBacks didn't offer arbitration.

and regardless of who we sign out of this bunch, we're losing a 2nd rounder.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

The 2009 Washington Nationals + Mark Teixeira = 95 losses. At least.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: sbiel2 | December 10, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Umm... Juan-John, where have you been? What do you mean you haven't seen anything that tells you the Lerners are willing to spend money? Am I missing something here? Was the offer made to Texieria a Monopoly offer or something? It really is time to get off the Lerners backs and start supporting the team. Hey, we may not end up with Tex, but this is a sure sign the Lerners are committed to winning and spending money to get there.

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

>Brue: If you, Ladson & Gammons say the Nats' are interested in Manny, does that make it so?The hyphenation of Manny's name is really tired. Please stop.
As is your worship of him<

Better than worshipping myself, like some posters around here like to do. Look, this guy is the best hitter since Ted Williams, imo. He's got the 2% uppercut, if you know what that is, and where it comes from. Maybe you don't. Doesn't matter. There's nobody like him. He has it down to a science. Like the guy on Yahoo said today - if he's happy, he rakes (Dodgers). If he's unhappy, he rakes (Boston). The guy is such a brilliant hitter that not even HE can screw it up at this point. Man-ny is the bad-dest. 1st ballot HOF. Apparently everyone wants him to be normal too. Ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: Brue | December 10, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Since when from the inception of this blog has there been as many posts and comments in one day? Keep it up Nats! I love it!

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Hey go for it - 11 yrs 220 mm - If we lose, those dolts in Boston will be saddled with a nice big contract. We need Tex more than anyone - he will be the franchise for years and will draw other players to this team. Boston doesn't need him for that. Given the intangibles he is worth more to us and we should go to 11 years.

Posted by: mjames0 | December 10, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

You're right, Mr. Madison, I didn't check close enough. Five points are overrated anyway, right?

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

This was reported on ESPN's MLB Wonter Meetings Blog...

Posted by Enrique Rojas
The proposed trade between the Nationals and Rockies involving right-hander Tim Redding and outfielder Willy Taveras fell apart because one of the players did not pass his physical exam.

Posted by: jctichen | December 10, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Keenan1: If I offered you 500K for your house knowing full well that someone else would be offering you 750K, would that offer be anything more than posturing?

Posted by: TimDz | December 10, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

>BTW... Dukes hits 30HR this year w/ or w/out Tex/ManRam...

This is true. But just think about how much higher his OPS and OBP will be. Dukes for All-Star in '09 baybee!!!

Posted by: Brue | December 10, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

The Denver Post is reporting that the Redding-Taveras deal fell through because the Nats were leary about a stress fracture on Taveras' leg that could potentially affect his speed and they backed out.

Posted by: BGinVA | December 10, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

"Manny and Dunn pay off now... but not later"

Dunn is only 3 or 4 months older than Teixeira.

Posted by: Uncle_Teddy | December 10, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

"The 2009 Washington Nationals + Mark Teixeira = 95 losses. At least.

Just sayin'."

Yeah, he's only about a 5-6 win player. But Aaron Bleepin' Boone had the most ABs at 1B for the Nats. If you're going to use the logical fallacy of all else holding the same to come up with your 95-loss prediction, then you need to add in the terrible play of the Nats' 1B last year, both offensively and defensively. That's good for another 2 or 3 wins beyond what Tex would give to an average team.

Posted by: Uncle_Teddy | December 10, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

"Keenan1: If I offered you 500K for your house knowing full well that someone else would be offering you 750K, would that offer be anything more than posturing?"

If you offered me your max price first, not planning to try to first get a lower price, I would consider you an idiot.

"Dunn is only 3 or 4 months older than Teixeira."

Once Dunn's power starts slipping he has no benefits. Teixeira can still hit for contact and field.

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

TimDz... if you think the Nats are simply posturing then good for you. I firmly believe this is for real and that the Nats will do everything they can to get a franchise player. The Nats have simply set the bar and it will be interesting to see where it goes from here. Jayson Stark Sr. ESPN.com writer does not believe that either the Angels or Sox will match the Nats offer. At this point I'm taking every bit of real info at face value.

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

If Bowden REALLY wants a CF, maybe he should trade for Mike Cameron. All the baseball experts keep saying Cameron would be a perfect fit for the Yankees, but I really doubt that the Brewers would want to trade him there, after they blew the Brewers' CC offer out of the water.

Posted by: jctichen | December 10, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

from what I am reading Orioles fans are getting overly excited about their chances at Tex. seems like the Orioles are moving in to close it out, with Angelos getting involved and talk about the Orioles jumping to 10/200m for Tex.

IF that is the case, the the Nats need to move quickly on Dunn and some other free agents(like say Orlando Hudson, and/or some pitching) after Tex comes off the market. I hope that have backup plans, and weren't banking on getting Tex as their only significant signing.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

<People who show up at the ballpark because they saw Manny Ramirez on SportsCenter are not necessarily the dedicated fanbase we are all craving.<

Oh yeah, the <2% of the fanbase that even knows this blog exists. The sooner you get over yourself, the more fun the actual games will be. Sounds like you'd rather take ownership of the situation than sit back and try to enjoy it. And when Man-ny gets his transcendental transcontinental insanely righteous funk beyond the call of duty out for the unwashed in DC, there'll be an explosion of support you never dreamed of. Man-ny's a genius. Behold, you will never see anything like him again, and you're damn lucky you're alive to see it now, even if you're ungrateful as hell.

Posted by: Brue | December 10, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

I guess that is my point Keenan1 and 506. Are they posturing or are they for real? Keenan1, I hope you are right and that the Nats are serious in their pursuit of Tex.
___________________________________________________
I firmly believe this is for real and that the Nats will do everything they can to get a franchise player. The Nats have simply set the bar and it will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 10:51 PM

Posted by: TimDz | December 10, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

The Yankees 6 year, 140 million offer to CC was as high as they were willing to go, right? Uh, no.

Just because the initial offer is 8 years for 160 does not mean that the Nats aren't going to add the other two years. That is why there is negotiation, not simply throwing something out for the guy to walk away.

Seems to me if they weren't serious, they'd do something like wait for the first huge offer and then throw out something with a higher per year average, but fewer years--something the team knows the player won't go for.

What they did, though, was begin the bidding. That makes me think they are anxious to begin the process so that they can end it quickly, and come out on top.

Posted by: Cavalier83 | December 10, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

I don't think 8/160 is going to get it done. I'm thinking 10/230 is the number.

Posted by: mastroj | December 10, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Rotoworld: "The Denver Post looks at Willy Taveras as a lock to be non-tendered after a proposed deal with the Nationals fell apart.
It figured that the Rockies would be able to trade Taveras, but nothing has materialized. He'll be a lot more popular as a free agent, and we could see him ending up as the Reds' center fielder and leadoff hitter."

Which begs to question...why were we trying to trade for him?

Posted by: jctichen | December 10, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the reasoning TimDz... it just really irks me when I read comments doubting the seriousness of the Nationals offer or calling the Lerners cheap when we're discussing a $160 million offer. Up to this point, yeah the Lerners haven't shown us much, but when all is said and done with Tex I think we'll see that the Nationals went all in and rightfully so. This deal has to get done for this club to be taken seriously in our own back yards, as well as the rest of MLB.

Posted by: Keenan1 | December 10, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Hot Stove Blog: "Baltimore's offer reportedly stretches over seven seasons and $150 million, figures that weren't immediately available for confirmation. Boras, who met with the national media on Wednesday, said that Teixeira will be considering a wide range of factors that include but aren't limited to geography, dollar signs and a team's proximity to contention."

$150/7yrs $160/8yrs

Posted by: jctichen | December 10, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Wow, some of you guys are WAY too sour about this. First of all, you have to play to win. Maybe 8/160 will, maybe it won't get the deal done. The Yankees did not open with $160M for Sabathia, they opened with $140M but they still got that deal done. I think most teams expect that there first offer will be challenged.

Second, lets give a little credit here. The Nats are trying. Can they outbid the richest teams? No. But there are multiple factors here including location, taxes, contract creativity, option clauses, total value, etc.... Don't assume you know everything - or anything - about the offer on the table.

Gammons, Rosenthal, and all the gossip mongers tell more than they know everyday. Yesterday Gammons declared Sabathia would not sign before next week at the earliest - hours later the deal was done. They have to say something, so they do.

Its unlikely the Nats would sign Manny, but Kasten is quoted as saying they would be opportunistic. I assume that means that if Manny's price in dollars and years comes down, they would consider it. I'm not a big fan of Manny today, but I would go all in 2 seconds if he became a National.

And what if the Nats do sign Teixeira, what would that mean in wins next year? Well he's good for 5-10 wins by himself. But, he wouldn't be by himself. He allows the Nats to trade Johnson, and he attracts other players to the team. Better health from the rest of the team probably adds 5-10 wins too. Olson, Willingham, and other additions help. Maybe Jordan Z comes through. Long term losing is NOT a certainty. The Nats can finish fourth or better this year even without Tex.

Have a little optimism. Let yourself enjoy being a fan for a change.

Posted by: natbisquit | December 10, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

I've seen this Mark Texeira being shipped from Texas to Atlanta and finally to Anaheim the last few years as contenders bought him to help push them over the top in the post season. I am not impressed. None of those teams made the World Series, so whatever skills Texeira may have, he will not make this Washington Nationals team a winner. Should have kept Soriano if they're willing to spend money all of a sudden.

Posted by: MrRamsey | December 10, 2008 11:21 PM | Report abuse

"from what I am reading Orioles fans are getting overly excited about their chances at Tex."

HAH! Silly losing team fans getting all excited about a free agent they have no chance of landing!

TimDz, I am happy to agree that they're both serious about trying to sign him and posturing. The ideal is to sign, but in case they can't get the signing done, I would hope they are making contingencies. Even if the posturing had nothing to do with trades or other signings at the very least it would indicate an EFFORT at public relations...

Brue, I can see him when he comes and visits my park to beat me. I don't see any reason to sign away our future to watch a childlike superstar at the tailing end of his career.

Oh no, wait! You're right, silly me! I see, I do want Man-ny! I would have never realized it except for you abrasively imploring me to get over myself! Now I understand, I never realized how wrong I was! Banger!

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 11:21 PM | Report abuse

There's no salary cap, sign them both! Even if the team ends up terrible again, 2 sluggers to trade at the deadline would probably bring 4 or 5 prospects back for The PLAN. The Lerners have the money, there's no cap hit to worry about, and they got a FREE STADIUM already. What better way to show us they are serious about having a real franchise?

Posted by: SwiftIT | December 10, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

one of the sticking points is apparently that Tex wants a no-trade.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/12218102

(last paragraph)

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse

combedge, we'll get him to stop when you stop using RBI as a mark of a player's value.

Posted by: Uncle_Teddy | December 10, 2008 10:08 PM

-------------------

Uh, I don't use rbi as a measure of a player's value. Brue used that stat claiming that 140+ rbi "never goes out of style" so I thought I'd address it. And the reference to a six-year deal is to what Boras is seeking (and by implication, Brue seems to believe is reasonable).

Certainly, Ramirez is a solid force on offense. But signing him makes no sense for the Nats...but I fear that Bowden's going to be unable to resist.

Posted by: combedge | December 10, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Give it to him, Mr. Kasten. At 8 years, $160 million he's un-tradable anyway, unless he's so good we wouldn't want to trade him.

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Certainly, Ramirez is a solid force on offense. But signing him makes no sense for the Nats...but I fear that Bowden's going to be unable to resist.
Posted by: combedge | December 10, 2008 11:41 PM

Why does it make no sense? What's the worst thing that could happen, they lose 100+ games? Seen that already

Posted by: SwiftIT | December 10, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

we're gonna have to raise this offer. I'd be shocked if we got him at this price.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 9:08 PM

--------------------------------------------

It's a strong opening bid. It's hardly insulting -- or even a lowball bid. It's abucketload of money and years. Being paid $20 million to play ball when you're 35?

If some other team values him as much they will show that. There's no point in bidding only against ourselves. If another team matches this or beats it, you can be sure Boras will take that info to the Nats. That will provide the Nats with the chance to show Teixeira just how badly they want him.

The only reason to have started higher would be to get other teams to throw in their cards. It won't impress Teixeira any more, if the Nats just bid some crazy amount. One thing he wants to have is confidence that the Nats' front office knows what it's doing. They do what it takes to sign him, if he's willing to sign with them. But, they shouldn't overpay, because they're going to need to spend on other players, too. Teixeira will respect that, if he's serious about more than just money.

Posted by: fischy | December 10, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Manny was great for the Dodgers, but he also tanked for the Red Sox, because he wanted out. What happens if he decides he doesn't like it here -- let's say he starts slowly and gets booed?

Bringing in Manny is a shipwreck waiting to happen.

Posted by: fischy | December 10, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

"What's the worst thing that could happen, they lose 100+ games? Seen that already"

And $60 million that could have gone towards arbitration or a new contract for Zimmerman, Milledge, Dukes, or Flores. Not to mention pick up the salary of an arb-eligible player that another team (HMM HMM FLORIDA) is trying to unload.

Posted by: Section506 | December 10, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Manny was great for the Dodgers, but he also tanked for the Red Sox, because he wanted out. What happens if he decides he doesn't like it here -- let's say he starts slowly and gets booed?

Bringing in Manny is a shipwreck waiting to happen.

Posted by: fischy | December 10, 2008 11:51 PM


Right, and after he quit on the Sox, they were STILL able to get an All-Star for him when they traded him. Even if he's a disaster, he will have value, there's always a desperate team (or 6) at the deadline.

Posted by: SwiftIT | December 10, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

RE: The Orioles and Nats Offers...

If everything else was the same... and you knew that one owner was a meddling, blowhard egomaniac who has never fielded a winning team, and the other owner was a respected, conservative businessman, committed to his team and his city, who would you choose?

As for the Red Sox, the argument that has been put forth about them (and other ultra-high budget teams) is true: They don't need Teixeira as much as the Nats do, and he will be just one of a team full of high priced players there, as opposed to the cornerstone of the franchise.

We now know the Nats are going to be competitive in terms of dollars. I think they have most of the intangibles on their side.

We have gone from 100-1 to 50-50.

Posted by: wigi | December 10, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-orioles1210,0,3105554.story

according to this, we can speculate the following offers:

Nats: 8/160
Angels: 8/160(-ish)
Orioles: 7/140-150
Red Sox: Unknown

I've also read somewhere that all 4 teams offered 8 years. but I've not seen a specific 8-year offer figure from the Orioles sources. every time the Orioles are mentioned by name it is 7/150.

Posted by: MrMadison | December 10, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

The team that wants Tex will probably have to add in the "option year" after year 3 or 4 like CC got. Boras may want him to be a 32 year old Free Agent in a much better economy (hopefully) in 2011 or 2012

Posted by: SwiftIT | December 11, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8922020/Wednesday-MLB-winter-meetings-blog

Posted by: JDB1 | December 11, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Swift is probably right about the Boras option out year clause. Might I suggest some creative work here? Let's say he wanted out after 3 or 4 years. That would either be because his value had gone up, or because the Nats were still miserable. The Nats could cover themselves, and make the offer more attractive than competing bids. They could have an escalator for the later years, if Teixeira doesn't opt out -- but make it a mutual option. That way, if they decide to keep him, and he decides to stay, it would be at a higher salary. Or, if he balks at that, just remove the mutuality. Give him the option of leaving, but make it much sweeter to stay.

Posted by: fischy | December 11, 2008 1:39 AM | Report abuse

The Nats can also promise to make him lots of money as the local hero -- perhaps the prospect of a TV position, or some other public role, after he retires. In the meantime, lots of promo and endorsements...

The Nats and Os can offer that. No other team can. So, 160 from the Nats may be worth more than 160 from the Angels.

Posted by: fischy | December 11, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse

Natsnut, 506, I like the new game - if Teixeira comes to Washington, the cherry blossoms will bloom on schedule.

Posted by: Traveler8 | December 11, 2008 4:46 AM | Report abuse

OMG! will we really get him?? :D

Posted by: rachel216 | December 11, 2008 6:22 AM | Report abuse

The Nats and O's are the only teams that could offer Tex a post-playing-career job? Please explain.

Posted by: mike8 | December 11, 2008 7:18 AM | Report abuse

>Brue, I can see him when he comes and visits my park to beat me. I don't see any reason to sign away our future to watch a childlike superstar at the tailing end of his career.

Oh no, wait! You're right, silly me! I see, I do want Man-ny! I would have never realized it except for you abrasively imploring me to get over myself! Now I understand, I never realized how wrong I was! Banger!,<

Oh, Man-ny will definitely beat your ass, and you still won't be any smarter for it. No need to apologize for Man-ny, even someone with glaucoma can see the guy is still one of the top five greatest hitters the league has ever seen. All the rants in the world won't change that. Besides that, I'm not going anywhere. You'll just have to get used to the truth. Sure, everybody wants Tex, but like was said - 160 million ain't gonna get it because Boras is notorious for bringing teams in at the last minute (O's) to jack up the final offer.
I don't know why signing Man-ny would ruin the franchise's future, Ted will still have almost 3 billion left over. The only thing it will ruin is your perception of the plan. You sound kind of, I don't know - green.

Posted by: Brue | December 11, 2008 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Oh! Another good argument, I'm green! Sheesh, I can't keep up with your intellectual acumen, wow, I'm so overwhelmed! Well guys, I guess this debate is all wrapped up here, better pack it in.

Posted by: Section506 | December 11, 2008 7:47 AM | Report abuse

>Oh! Another good argument, I'm green! Sheesh, I can't keep up with your intellectual acumen, wow, I'm so overwhelmed! Well guys, I guess this debate is all wrapped up here, better pack it in.

Bring it on, Rook! (chortle)

>Not to mention pick up the salary of an arb-eligible player that another team (HMM HMM FLORIDA) is trying to unload.<

Who, Uggla? Do tell! Is there another trade in the works? You need a blog. Badly. This platform isn't big enough for you.


Posted by: Brue | December 11, 2008 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Swift is also right about some team always wanting Man-ny at the trade deadline for a playoff push. This year just cemented his reputation as a basher with no conscience. Oh that mas-sive slugging savant that is Man-ny!!

Posted by: Brue | December 11, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

I would like to know one reason why the Nat's would sign Manny.(one good reason). According to practically everyone and sundry, the Nats won't challenge for at least a couple of years. (I don't agree, but that's beside the point)Tex's value is obvious. He'll be around much longer, and brings much more to the franchise-attitude, young age, etc. Two years of Manny would be a useless exercise and a waste of money, not to mention his documented history in regards to attitude. Of course, he was great after being traded to LA. He can be great if he wants to be. And he wanted to be great because he was going to be a FA. But he can be something else altogether when he so decides, typically egotistic and self-serving.
Jeeves

Posted by: jcampbell1 | December 11, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

>I would like to know one reason why the Nat's would sign Manny.(one good reason).

Because he can rake.

>But he can be something else altogether when he so decides, typically egotistic and self-serving.<

Just like your post. Except you can't rake.

Posted by: Brue | December 11, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

From Foxsports blog:

>The Dodgers have had internal discussions about extending their contract offer to Manny Ramirez to three years. Los Angeles made Ramirez a two-year offer early in the offseason but it was dismissed by agent Scott Boras.

Ramirez has expanded his offseason workouts at Athletes Performance Institute, from two months last year to three this winter. -- Ed Price

Posted by: Brue | December 11, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Manny wants a winning team. Every time the Red Sox dropped out of contention he has stopped playing. He is not a good influence in the club house and his attitude could rub off on the other guys. Lets try and give Manny some pro's to work with this year shall we?

Posted by: soundbloke | December 11, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

See? Man-ny works out hard. Dedicated. Always in shape. He's a savant in the art of hitting. The problem with him is that you need to go to his planet, not try to bring him to yours. Then everything will make sense.

Posted by: Brue | December 11, 2008 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Wow. Nice discussion so far.

Just a few observations about the 2008's EE#4 and the Tex/ Manny chase:

1) Theo Epstein made the somewhat surprising but correct point yesterday that, since he has been GM in 2002, the Sox have given out 2 contracts to free agents that exceeded $40 million (Dice-K $52 m + $51 rights fee, Drew $70 million). Recall Beckett and Schilling were traded for then extended, and Ortiz was a low cost FA before signing his extensions.

2) Part of the Red Sox cost will be finding a taker for Lowell. They are likely to move Youk to 3d if Tex were signed.

3) Tex is Tex, and they think they need a younger, high OBP, power bat as Ortiz and Lowell age, Bay is approaching FA, and Drew's injuries continue. That could be Tex, but it might be a combination of retaining Lowell, trading for Saltalamacchia, and waiting for Lars Anderson by the time Lowell's contract runs out.

4) While I've heard the thought that Boras wants Tex in Boston to open the market for Manny, what is most important to Boras is that he keep LAA and at at least one other team in the market for Manny. I've thought NYY would be LAA's competitor.

5) Manny is one of the best right handed hitters ever. There's no real argument about that, regardless of where his head is at. People will love Manny here, if he ended up here. He's just a lousy fit due to his age and lack of focus when he's not winning. I don't know what would be the equivalent of his visits inside the Wall during pitching changes, but I could easily see him order half smokes between innings and giving Clint a wedgie.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | December 11, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

If he comes to a local team it will be the O's!!!!!!!!!!!!

KEEP DREAMING NATS FANS.

Posted by: beas13 | December 11, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Your Clint-related point may sway some opinions in favor of Manny, jca.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | December 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

"If he comes to a local team it will be the O's!!!!!!!!!!!!

KEEP DREAMING NATS FANS."

OH REALLY


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2008/12/macphail_leaves_meetings.html

Posted by: JDB1 | December 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

This is a bad deal for the Nats, in my opinion. They are not close to making the playoffs, even with Tex. This wreaks of the Texas A-Rod deal. Sign big-name star who rocks, but cripple yourself from competing in the future b/c you have no cap room to get any other talent. The Rangers didn't have good pitching then and they continued to struggle, in spite of the fact that A-Rod was an offensive beast.

Actually, this is probably worse than the A-Rod deal because at least he was a big enough star to fill the seats. Do average people (who are not baseball fanatics) really want to come see Tex?

I'd prefer to maybe spend a little money on a potential first baseman like Dunn and then improve the pitching as well, whether with a veteran pitcher who could show some of our younger guys (Lannan) the ropes and will go for less money like Prior, Lowe, Martinez. Just about the only guy that I would spend A-Rod dollars on in this free agency mkt is CC.

The Nats should have thrown their money at a proven starter instead.

Posted by: skabizza | December 11, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company