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And Finally, With Overall Pick No. 81...

... the Nationals select pitcher Trevor Holder, a 6-2, 205-pound right-hander out of the University of Georgia. This was the first pick of the third round, and it completes the Nationals' quartet of picks -- all of them out of the college ranks -- on day one of the draft.

Here is Baseball America on Holder: "Senior righthander Trevor Holder was a 10th-round pick last season and should go in about the same range this June. He allowed 19 home runs in 92 innings as he failed to harness his improved velocity. Holder's fastball touched 95 and sat in the 91-94 mph range for much of the spring, but it's straight as an arrow at that speed, and hitters seemed to be running to the bat rack rather than being intimidated by the velocity. He has more movement when he throws it 88-91 mph, setting up a solid slurvy breaking ball and fringy changeup."

And here is Nationals crosschecker Daric Ladnier: "To a man everybody [in the draft room] felt like this guy was going to be a quality starter. We've seen him up to 94 [mph], [with a] slider [and] change up. He's around the zone."

By Dave Sheinin  |  June 9, 2009; 10:09 PM ET
 
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Next: The Strasburg Watch: Now What? (Plus, Some Links)

Comments

Holding on...

Posted by: fischy | June 9, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse

1st and 2nd

Posted by: fischy | June 9, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

College means quicker to the pros ... (all 4 picks) or quicker to find out if they are going to pan out.

Posted by: periculum | June 9, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

man, a fringe arm is the best they could do here? No one with more upside?

Posted by: bigcountry22 | June 9, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Questionable.

from Baseball America...

"Senior righthander Trevor Holder was a 10th-round pick last season and should go in about the same range this June. He allowed 19 home runs in 92 innings as he failed to harness his improved velocity. Holder’s fastball touched 95 and sat in the 91-94 mph range for much of the spring, but it’s straight as an arrow at that speed, and hitters seemed to be running to the bat rack rather than being intimidated by the velocity. He has more movement when he throws it 88-91 mph, setting up a solid slurvy breaking ball and fringy changeup."

Posted by: inthestreetindustry | June 9, 2009 10:22 PM | Report abuse

...and with a 4.48 ERA/1.34 WHIP? Really?

Posted by: inthestreetindustry | June 9, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Basic reasoning for this pick: we needed a guy to get holds for the bullpen, so we drafted a guy by the name of Holder.

Posted by: tengoalyrunr30 | June 9, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Wow, what a terrible pick. Fastball with no movement and mediocre secondary pitches.

Strasburg better be worth it (assuming they sign of course) because this looks bad.

Posted by: Liebercreep | June 9, 2009 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Given that the team had Strasburg in its pocket going into the draft today, it's hard to imagine a more disappointing first 3 rounds of this draft. Ugh.

I guess the Lerners are saving their money for all those high-risk international signings they are going to make. HA!

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 9, 2009 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Where's Ng?

Posted by: periculum | June 9, 2009 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Dave,

When you are interviewing Rizzo about all of the 4 picks that he made today, please don't let him piss on your leg and tell you that it is raining. These picks post-Strasburg are all about signability, and I hope you press Rizzo on them. He can talk all he wants about the integrity of his "board," but if the board is set up with signability in mind, that doesn't mean anything. The picks today needed to be about projectable talent, period. And, sadly, they weren't.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 9, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Wow, craptastic!

Posted by: VladiHondo | June 9, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

"Projectable talent"? We've got nothing but projectable talent. Talent that's not projecting very well. You all can cry that these are cheap signable picks, but these are guys that are more ready than not. Nats need some surer picks, not some promise down the road.

Posted by: johnnybaconbitz | June 9, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

The only sure thing about these picks is that they will sign without much trouble.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 9, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

I wish I could open up a magazine and then come back with knowledgeable critiques of the Nationals' draft. I guess I just don't know as much about these players as the rest of you do. Without a copy of Baseball America, I'm lost -- unable to parrot the opinions of other, unknown persons.

Posted by: fischy | June 9, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

I feel like charlie brown trying to kick that football.

Rizzo saying "We are going to take the best available" = Peppermint Patty saying "I won't pull the football away at the last minute"

I don't believe in the Nats or Rizzo anymore. If they don't sign Strasburg, then this draft is one of the worst in history.

I was trying to tell myself that the #10 pick was ok, then surely the 2b was just underrated by Baseball America, but after this pick I think maybe it's time to find a REAL GM!

Posted by: PNatsFan | June 9, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm still happy with 1, 1a, and 2. These are good picks. I don't know much about Holder so I cannot defend or attack. I do know that Holder was the ace of the Georgia team.

Posted by: natbiscuits | June 9, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't it Lucy that would pull the football away again and again...not Peppermint Patty?

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 9, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Folks, it's one thing for all of us to pretend we know what we're talking about when it comes to the big leaguers. I think you guys are pushing it with your "knowledge" of the draft.

Posted by: baltova1 | June 9, 2009 11:06 PM | Report abuse

Hwy295R and PNatsFan captured my thoughts. Don't tell us you are going to draft BPA and then clearly veer from that approach.
Rizzo couldn't even force himself to say Storen was the BPA. He did say he'd followed him (wow, the #10 pick and we'd followed him. He was also high on the board. How high? If he was number one Rizzo could have said so).
For #81 we take a pitcher with a bad record and limited tools. Great! I guess the devilishly clever subtlty of the PLAN is escaping me.

I so hope I'm wrong>
Let's play two!

Posted by: SlowPitch63 | June 9, 2009 11:08 PM | Report abuse

@baltova -- Amen to that, brother.

---------------------------------------------

Folks, it's one thing for all of us to pretend we know what we're talking about when it comes to the big leaguers. I think you guys are pushing it with your "knowledge" of the draft.

Posted by: baltova1 | June 9, 2009 11:06 PM |

Posted by: fischy | June 9, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

I think the complaint here is that Rizzo is using his own best judgment, instead of letting Baseball America be his draft guide.

Posted by: fischy | June 9, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Not again!

Did anybody hear Charlie and Dave's reaction to that called 3rd strike on Dunn? They'd have the better angle from up top than MASN's which makes it hard to tell where it was when it crossed the plate...

Posted by: nattaboy | June 9, 2009 11:26 PM | Report abuse

They are probably only 1 to 3 pitchers away. At least one or 2 guys already in the system seem likely to pan out. Plus Strasberg, hopefully Storen after a year in the minors.

CF, RF, C, 2B are now immediate problems? If they lose Nick then 1B. Can't assume Dunn because next season will likely be his last as it likely will be Johnson's this year. Dukes appears to be panning out.

The picture still looks pretty muddled.

Posted by: periculum | June 9, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Let me put it this way. I've actually seen two guys play high school baseball who became number one draft picks out of high school (one was Delino DeShields, the best high school athlete I've ever seen). And I couldn't honestly tell you that I thought either guy was a number one pick when I was watching them.

If it's that difficult in person, I think it's probably even tougher when you're just reading what somebody else thinks about them.

Posted by: baltova1 | June 9, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I hope drafting guys that will be ready faster is a strategy that coincides with spending on free agents and trying to compete sooner.

Posted by: nattaboy | June 9, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Holder is a tough pitcher that challenges hitters. As stated by Baseball America, when he tries to max out at 95 ball straigtens out, when he pitches low 90's good movement and good slider. Minor league pitching coaches will adjust him. As a Georgia Bulldog he appeared in 2 College World Series, and three years of post season. With some minor adjustment could very well be set-up guy and shorten the game for us. Definitely a tough competitor...a Bulldog approach. Could see him at MLB park by mid year 2010 in my opinion.

Posted by: DCsportfan3433 | June 9, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Wow, that home plate ump sucked. Or as Rick Eckstein just kept yelling at him, "You've got no integrity." Also, no idea of the strike zone. Oh, well.

Posted by: baltova1 | June 9, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

How fitting that this one ended on another BS third strike called by the ump. That pitch was way low. And Rick Eckstein was FURIOUS! He was screaming at that ump as loud at the top of his lungs! Good to see someone arguing these horrible calls. Charlie and Dave think Rick earned himself a fine. Good for him!!!

Posted by: BGinVA | June 9, 2009 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmm,

Holder was UGA's ace. He pitched a heck of a lot more innings than Strasburg and Storen. Pitched in the college world series in 2008. Looks like a workhorse. Appears to be a starter ...

Posted by: periculum | June 9, 2009 11:45 PM | Report abuse

15 wins 41 losses.

Posted by: periculum | June 9, 2009 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Well, that one sentence in my post didn't come out quite right, but I'm sure you all know what I mean.

Posted by: BGinVA | June 9, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

oof.

Posted by: nattaboy | June 9, 2009 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Tomorrow night, I must be sure to turn on a computer to MLB audio and another to MLB video, volume down, so I don't have to listen to Holiday's constant mistakes. Dibble was kind to ask him about his DJ career. I guess Holiday was good at that.

To the FO: 15-41. While you're worrying about Strasburg, there's a season going on here. Some of us would prefer that the Nats not be on the futility side of the record books, but I suppose it's too much to expect otherwise.

Posted by: nats24 | June 9, 2009 11:57 PM | Report abuse

from a few posts back, pre-draft:

"1a, i think "sec3mysofa" and "surly w" are head-to-head on the great moniker race.
Posted by: NatsNut | June 9, 2009 3:04 PM"

I'm flattered, but my respect goes first to +HalfSt.

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 10, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

15-41!

The Bryce Harper watch begins now.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 10, 2009 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Just got back from the game and man, I tell you what...that Draft Party at Nationals Park was AWESOME!!!!!!!!

Ugh. Seriously, a cheap t-shirt giveaway and quick announcements of the draft picks as they were made does not a Draft Party make.

Posted by: combedge | June 10, 2009 12:27 AM | Report abuse

Rizzo has always loved college guys since his days in Arizona and since everyone at baseball america works for a magazine and not a pro baseball team i think we should all put a little less stock in to their draft reports and little more faith in our experienced front office.

Posted by: peteywheatstraw | June 10, 2009 12:33 AM | Report abuse

I don't think those who are questioning Rizzo's picks are simply relying on BA's views to form their opinions.

And anyway, why are BA's views on draft prospects any less valid than were their views on the Nats' 2007 draft? We all know how the Nats really downplayed BA's supposed expertise then, right?

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 10, 2009 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Ok. We've probably got the #1 pick locked up for next year already. We can stop losing now. Oh wait. Sorry. We could win 106 straight games and still win the series. I guess we better lose a few more just to be sure.

I'm warming up to Storen. I don't think it's worth blowing draft picks on middle relief but if he solves the closer problem... well WOOHOO!! Notice Rizzo says they'll keep him in the bullpen and doesn't say anything about him being the closer of the future. I think at #10 you have to be taking a closer or a starter or you're wasting the pick.

In that context if he's likely to be a good closer or has starter potential then ok. I'm sold. I just hope today Rizzo took his GM hat off long enough to know in his gut this is the right guy.

@baltova1

If we didn't kick the guts out of this what would be the point? We honestly wouldn't be having any fun would we? We can't be happy about a winning baseball team so we might as well have fun thrashing the FO with our irrational and inexperienced commentary.

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 10, 2009 1:05 AM | Report abuse

Just so long as you don't hurt anyone. And remember, kids, there's no trading draft picks.
***************
@baltova1
If we didn't kick the guts out of this what would be the point? We honestly wouldn't be having any fun would we? We can't be happy about a winning baseball team so we might as well have fun thrashing the FO with our irrational and inexperienced commentary.

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 10, 2009 1:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 10, 2009 1:28 AM | Report abuse

OK, nevermind the magazines and blogs. I went straight to the highest authority: Magic 8 Ball.

Is Storen a closer?
"Ask again later."

Will SS sign this year?
"Definitely!"

Will the Nats have the first pick next year?
"Maybe."


Waffling, blowing smoke, and more waffling.
Fire the 8 Ball!

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 10, 2009 1:33 AM | Report abuse

@Sec3mysofa

The complemntary steak knives are still in their original packaging.

But hey... I guess we all still have hope 'eh? If we didn't we'd be saying sign Daffy Duck for all we care... doesn't matter anymore...

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 10, 2009 1:52 AM | Report abuse

I know the Nats FO knows WAAAAYYYYY more than I do about this game, but...

Did the majority of the Nats' draft picks HAVE to be pitchers? There wasn't another middle infielder they coulda picked???

Posted by: Juan-John | June 10, 2009 2:03 AM | Report abuse

Just as long as it's not Donald Duck. He's an old 75.

---

But hey... I guess we all still have hope 'eh? If we didn't we'd be saying sign Daffy Duck for all we care... doesn't matter anymore...

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 10, 2009 1:52 AM

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 10, 2009 5:45 AM | Report abuse

Note to self for future games, after having been at Tues. night's game (and arriving there before the scheduled start):

-- if there is ANY possibility of a rain delay, be SURE to bring your own food and drink with you: probably 5 of 6 (if not more) food stalls/kiosks on the upper concourse were closed by the time the game started, and not a single walking vendor came into our section (317) during the game, unless one came by during the brief time I was in the ladies room

-- be sure to leave the game in time to get to Metro BEFORE it's regularly-scheduled closing time. Metro's after hours service to accomodate ballpark fans was a nightmare, even though my husband and I had left our seats in the middle of the 8th inning to head to the station. We ended up waiting on the platform at Navy Yard, when the train arrived it was held at the station for a long time (I dont have much of an issue with that), and then we waiting at L'Enfant Plaza for close to 30 minutes for an outgoing train. In the future we'll be sure to leave our seats by 11PM so that (in theory) there's little chance of being caught in the same situation again.

Posted by: MCarroll63 | June 10, 2009 7:06 AM | Report abuse

you don't have to read baseball america to know that Trevor Holder was an extreme reach at 81.

I love all the lemmings ranting on and on about baseball america though. did it ever occur to you clowns that perhaps some of us actually pay attention to these sorts of things? Nah, that's not possible. nobody who posts on NJ actually pays attention to baseball, we all just pick up a newspaper and repeat what is written word for word.

rofl.

Posted by: MrMadison | June 10, 2009 7:09 AM | Report abuse

"I don't think those who are questioning Rizzo's picks are simply relying on BA's views to form their opinions."

Oh, I see. Each of you individual complainers maintains your own staff of scouts who criss-cross the country all spring, seeing hundreds if not thousands of HS and college games, filing detailed reports on each prospect they see so you all can then hole yourself up in a conference room 24/7 for a couple of weeks to put together your own proprietary rankings of 800 or so prospects. Got it. Yeah, there's no way a major league team would ever put out that kind of effort. Baseball America wouldn't either, because there aren't enough geeks living in their parents basement to pay enough subscription money to support it. So yes, you anonymous pontificators here are the only ones anywhere who know if any of these drafted players are any good or not.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 10, 2009 7:34 AM | Report abuse

"I know the Nats FO knows WAAAAYYYYY more than I do about this game, but...

Did the majority of the Nats' draft picks HAVE to be pitchers? There wasn't another middle infielder they coulda picked???"

Um, they've only done three rounds of the draft so far, with like 30 or 40 more rounds to come over the next two days. I'm sure they'll be drafting a few middle infielders along the way. Also recall Rizzo's pre-draft comment that this year's pool was not strong in position players. That's why you're seeing lots of pitchers drafted early on.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 10, 2009 7:39 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the "Draft Party" - did they even have the MLB Network on the big screen?

Posted by: comish4lif | June 10, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Rizzo is a baseball lifer stooge who works cheep. Any wonder why the Lerners are attracted to him? Get Ng in here fast and shake up this old boys' network. A disastrous, dysfunctional FO just kicking the can down the road. When SS craps out--and I believe, like Boz, there's no better than a 50-50 chance he's a five-year MLB starter, this draft will show the fallacy into thinking this FO knows what it's doing. 15-and-41, your move, StanK. Anybody home?

Posted by: jdschulz50 | June 10, 2009 7:54 AM | Report abuse

"Regarding the "Draft Party" - did they even have the MLB Network on the big screen?"

I don't know, and I was there. But since it was raining from about 5:30 on, most everyone in the ballpark including myself was under cover in one of the concourses, where you can't really see or hear what's on the big screen. I'm sure things would have been much different had the weather not been so bad.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 10, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

If the Nats are having a "draft party" - then the MLB Network coverage should have been everywhere - or at least have their own coverage.

Furthermore, some of us read Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus and have our own opinions - based on what we read of course, I don't think anyone in here is a pro scout. But at least we're doing some work and some research rather than just parroting what the Nats say. Holder was a reach in the 3rd round. Chris Dominguez would have been a better pick there.

Posted by: comish4lif | June 10, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Ok - silver lining - this is now officially the "Strasburg or bust" draft. Matter of fact, if this were a band, this band would be called "Big Stevie and the Overdrafts."

The point you all are missing when you harp about Rizzo's knowledge is that the gripe isn't whether or not these guys are good players - I don't know whether their good players, neither do you, neither does Baseball America, and dare I say, neither does the almighty Riz and his army of scouts. The point is that draft needs to be on value as well as scouting - Holder might be a great player ultimately, but he almost certainly could have been had with pick 111 or 141, and there are other guys who couldn't - so you draft him early, knowing that he'll be grateful going above where he was projected. That's signability, and it means you leave other, potentially equally talented players out there. There's really no defense of it other than "we're going to blow the budget on Strasburg, so we need to pick other guys we can get in under budget." Which is ok - if Rizzo had said that from the beginning, as opposed to "I don't draft on signability."

Not one of these guys after Strasburg has "special player" kind of potential. I'm ok with Storen, but are we sure he wouldn't have been there at 50? Are we sure he's more talented than the other pitchers left on the board there? Or is he just more signable?

Every one of the post-Strasburg picks is a quick-to-the-majors, low-ceiling, signability pick - that means a bunch of guys who can potentially be so-so MLB regulars. The biggest problem this team has isn't bullpen, and it isn't defense. It's talent. There's been some progress - Dunn, Zim^2, Dukes and Flores all look like pieces for a contender. But picking low-ceiling signability guys who "pan out" by encumbering spots 20-25 on an MLB roster doesn't further that progress.

Someone wrote a few posts back about Kobernus that he and Espinosa "are not Rollins and Utley." Exactly - they're not - and why would we not draft the guy in the draft (Green) who COULD be Rollins or Utley or Kinsler or Young?

The only argument I see that makes sense is that they don't think they had the budget to sign BOTH Strasburg and Green (unless you want to argue that Rizzo isn't really a great evaluator of talent and actually believes that these guys are the best options out there). That's fine - but it's yet another sign that when the organization needs to choose between doing the financially frugal thing and doing the thing that reaches for a championship, they'll go frugal.

Count me disappointed in the ownership of a franchise who repeatedly say all the right things, but don't step up to the plate when it's time to show commitment to the plan.

Posted by: Highway295Revisited | June 10, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

I think it wise not to declare that this is a good draft or a bad draft after the first three rounds or first four picks. Strassburg was a mandatory pick. My hopes were lifted very high this morning when Steve Phillips was saying that the Nats will have a hard time signing him Phillips is ALWAYS WRONG, so we should have him signed within the week.

Thinking about Storen, everyone - media and baseball personnel - seem to think he is near ready to step on the field and compete. Virtually anyone else we could have taken with that pick (including White, Jenkins, and Green, Crow, etc...) is a minimum 1.5 years away and probably 3 years. So in that context its a very smart pick. He could have two years of productivity before the bigger name prospects hit the majors. And, he is a high command pitcher.

Holder was ranked in the BA top 100 collegiate prospects and he is considered a healthy workhorse pitcher graduating as a Senior. Could he be in double A by the start of next year? Maybe. Some labeled this pick as s signability pick, but I would label it as a high-reliability pick. Not speculative, near ready. More proven.

Kobernus is a fundamentally sound player. The kind that coaches screaming "Can anybody here play this game?" turn to when they lead the league in on-field blunders.

Whatever else you want to say about these picks, the tone being set witht he early picks is welcome. Get me some players now. This is not the year to drft a bunch of high school players who are 5 years away from producing. That is of no value to this organization. They need to win sooner than that.

Posted by: natbisquit | June 10, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

I would love for the experts like nunof1, who obviously know SO much more than anyone else here, to school me on what exactly Holder has done to vault from a 10th round selection last year to a 3rd round one.

from what i see, he's not very impressive at all. and I'm not reading what Baseball America has to say about him. I'm looking at his Statistics.

please share your infinite wisdom, since all of us "complainers" are clueless and know absolutely nothing about these players and you know absolutely everything.

Posted by: MrMadison | June 10, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

and note, I'm not talking about any of the other 3 picks.

only Holder.

Posted by: MrMadison | June 10, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

I didn't perceive that nunof was positioning himself as an expert.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 10, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Bisquit, I wish I could find that sort of optimism. You see "near-ready," I see "roster filler" - If Holder signs today he's AT best the 8th best 25-and-under pitcher in the organization. Which of our seven 25-and-under guys does he displace - Strasburg, Zimmermann, Detwiler, Lannan, Martis, Stammen, Balester, Olsen? And that's to say nothing of the 26-28 year old Mocks, Chicos, Estradas, etc. I look at Holder and I see "journeyman middle reliever of the future," not "more proven." We don't need more proven middle-of-the-road guys - we need talent that will help us compete. Same with Kobernus - you see "fundamentally sound" - I see "utility man of the future."

To repeat myself from above, not that those are bad guys or lousy players - in order to make a 25 man roster, you need to be in the top 700 players of baseball in the world - it's a real achievement. My point is that from a team-building perspective, you don't help yourself by selecting a bunch of low-ceiling signability guys. That's a way to build a cheap, mediocre team to ensure revenue streams in the face of a small STH base. Its a fiscally sound approach, but not geared toward winning a championship.

Posted by: Highway295Revisited | June 10, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

I'll say this though:

if we are going to reach due to signability...

I'd rather do so with College Players who are closer in development to MLB, than to do so on crapshoot High Schoolers.

so in that respect, I am pleased with our picks, even Holder.

Posted by: MrMadison | June 10, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

i haven't been so excited about this either but if we get two major leaguers from this draft, it will be a success. and storen and strasburg got me all warm and fuzzy. we can't beat ourselves up over perceived value. most everyone in here wanted rizzo in charge for this draft so let's see what happens.

Posted by: longterm | June 10, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I didn't perceive that nunof was positioning himself as an expert.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 10, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

I don't perceive that anyone who is unhappy with the draft was positioning themselves as an expert either. but that doesn't stop folks like nunof1 from acting like they are, now does it?

Posted by: MrMadison | June 10, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Batlova 1: Saw your post about Delino DeShields his son attends HS with my daughter at Woodward Academy here in College Pk.,Ga. right outside of Atl.He is a helluva RB on the varsity and is just a sophomore not big but has blazing speed and has a great attitude,my daughter is a majorette/color guard so i went to all of the home games this past football season and got a chance to see him perform up close.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 10, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Well with regard to Holder, I am not an expert and therefore cannot condemn nor extoll the pick. What little I know is this: Holder is a Senior out of Georgia who was ranked in the top 100 collegiate prospects over the winter by BA. College statistics are based on a small enough number of innings to skew them significantly with a single bad outing. So unless you have seen him pitch you would not have a complete picture on statistics alone. The KC Royals thought enough of him to use a 10th round pick on him last year when they knew there was a strong chance he would stay for his senior year. Statistics are tricky. Statistically, Roy Oswalt is a bad pitcher this year. I'd take him anyway.

This idea that Holder's fastball is too straight is one of the more coachable issues. Grip the ball differently, don't overthrow, start the windup from a different position.

I don't know if it's a good pick or a bad pick, but I seriously doubt they passed on other players with the third round pick over money. This is the same owner and scouting director that were in place during the touted 2007 and 2008 drafts. One thing they have done relatively well is draft pitchers. Why doubt them now over a paragraph in BA or bottom line statistics?

Posted by: natbisquit | June 10, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Nice gamer Mr. Viera - we certainly appreciate you stepping-up on a very busy day but "relented a lined single?"

Posted by: lowcountry | June 10, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

"But at least we're doing some work and some research rather than just parroting what the Nats say."

How much work and research are you doing in comparison to the work the Nats scouting staff does year-round? They are surely doing more than just looking at these players' statistics. In fact, one or more of their scouts has surely seen every player they draft actually play, at least once if not more. That's why I tend to give a lot more credence to what an MLB scouting department thinks than I do to so-called experts who have "looked at statistics." Maybe the scout saw something in the player's performance that doesn't show up in raw statistics.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 10, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

"

". . .I've actually seen two guys play high school baseball who became number one draft picks out of high school. . . . And I couldn't honestly tell you that I thought either guy was a number one pick when I was watching them.

If it's that difficult in person, I think it's probably even tougher when you're just reading what somebody else thinks about them."
Posted by: baltova1

Don't let your inability to judge in person prevent you from judging others ability by merely reading their comments.

Posted by: VladiHondo | June 10, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"

". . .I've actually seen two guys play high school baseball who became number one draft picks out of high school. . . . And I couldn't honestly tell you that I thought either guy was a number one pick when I was watching them.

If it's that difficult in person, I think it's probably even tougher when you're just reading what somebody else thinks about them."
Posted by: baltova1

Don't let your inability to judge in person prevent you from judging others ability by merely reading their comments.


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AHHHHHHHHH, IT'S A HALL OF MIRRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Section506 | June 10, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

"If the Nats are having a "draft party" - then the MLB Network coverage should have been everywhere - or at least have their own coverage."

They were showing the MASN draft coverage on the screen above the Red Porch Restaurant in the Centerfield Plaza, and presumably on every other TV screen in the park including the scoreboard. But I didn't feel like standing in the rain in the plaza to watch the Red Porch screen, and from the concourse I couldn't see or hear the scoreboard. I'm sure the folks in the various clubs and at the Red Loft got all the TV draft coverage they could handle.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 10, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I must say that I am one who is prone to defer to the front office on the draft picks - a kool-aid drinker, so to speak. But I am impressed by those of you who have spent time sifting through the Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus projections. It demonstarates some serious fanaticism. I'm not so keen on the critical vehemence, and I do envy the jobs that allow for so research, but - disagreements aside - I applaud such knowledgeable fans.

Posted by: lowcountry | June 10, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"I know you are but what am I?"

Signed, the new post.

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AHHHHHHHHH, IT'S A HALL OF MIRRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Section506 | June 10, 2009 9:21 AM

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 10, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

For three years as a high school coach, our team played against Brandon Inge a couple of times each year. He was obviously a very good high school ball player - started on varsity his freshman year and by senior year was all-district, etc. But there were other very good ball players of his caliber as well. I am not aware of any of them making it to the major leagues - let alone having a career such as Brandon.

At the risk of minimizing raw talent and the necessary work ethic - projection truly seems to be a craphoot at some level.Three years around high school ball certainly was not enough time to make me an expert.

__________________________
". . .I've actually seen two guys play high school baseball who became number one draft picks out of high school. . . . And I couldn't honestly tell you that I thought either guy was a number one pick when I was watching them.

Posted by: lowcountry | June 10, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"That's why I tend to give a lot more credence to what an MLB scouting department thinks"
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everyone does this. even the people who are unhappy with the picks. that's why they get paid to do it, and we do it for fun.

do you actually have a unique point in all this?

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Maybe the scout saw something in the player's performance that doesn't show up in raw statistics.
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yeah, that he'll sign earlier and without hassle. that doesn't show up in any type statistics at all.

Posted by: MrMadison | June 10, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

We have the potential to have the number one pick two years in a row. I wonder how much money we will have available after this year to sign next year's?

Posted by: Tom8 | June 10, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

lieber: "Wow, what a terrible pick. Fastball with no movement and mediocre secondary pitches."

That ain't exactly the review. He's a three-pitch guy who can't make it on his fastball alone. Sounds like most of the spot starters and long relievers in MLB.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 10, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I disagree that the Nats don't have talent that is projecting.

I think some people here are oblivious to the fact the Nationals are in fact starting THREE rookie pitchers and don't have a starter over 25.

Zimmermann, Martis and Detwiler have talent.

That's not the problem. Their lack of experience plus the horrible state of the bullpen has prevented these younger players from getting on any kind of roll momentum-wise in the first 2 months of the season.

When these guys do pitch well they are rewarded by losing a game 9-6 that they turned over to the bullpen winning 6-4.

The state of the bullpen plus the lack of productivity from highly paid regulars such as Austin Kearns is part of the legacy left behind by Jim Bowden.

For the Bowden supporters out there, what major league core players has he added to the team for the future?

Jesus Flores is the only name I came up with.

Lopez was a bust. Pena was a bust. Kearns was a bust. Milledge looks like a bust. Cabrera was a huge mistake in 2009.

Anyone remember Emilio Bonifacio? The Nationals traded their best relief pitcher for a player they kept all of 3 seconds.

Bonifacio was then sent to Florida for a forgettable Scott Olsen and a guy in Willingham that seemingly every team has, an outfielder that tends to get hurt but can hit 20 home runs and bat .240 when he gets enough plate appearances.

Yahoo, what a bonanza.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 10, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

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