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Tonight's Lineups And Quick Notes (Updated)

** Cristian Guzman is not in the lineup because Manager Manny Acta does not want his shortstop facing a lefty, leaving his sore thumb exposed while batting from the right side. Guzman will be ready to face left-handed pitching in time for Johan Santana this weekend.

** Josh Willingham remains troubled by his stomach virus. "That virus is affecting him," Acta said. "He's still very weak,"

Onto tonight's full lineups...

Giants
Rowand -- CF
Renteria -- SS
Winn (S) -- RF
Molina -- C
Sandoval (S) -- 1B
Lewis (L) -- LF
Uribe -- 3B
Burriss (S) -- 2B
Johnson -- LHP

Nationals (14-36)
Hernandez (S) -- 2B
Johnson (L) -- 1B
Zimmerman -- 3B
Dunn (L) -- LF
Dukes -- CF
Kearns -- RF
Gonzalez -- SS
Nieves -- C
Zimmermann -- RHP

By Zach Berman  |  June 3, 2009; 3:08 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Flores And The Winning Percentage Correlation
Next: Rain Delay Update [UPDATED]

Comments

It is *possible* that the Nats could lose, but Johnson won't win.

On the other hand, the Nats are on a roll to see if they can be the funny answer to 162 baseball trivia questions in one year.

/snark

Posted by: wigi | June 3, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Was Guz having trouble batting right handed on account of his thumb? Maybe he didn't want to face RJ from the first base side of the plate.

Posted by: twinbrook | June 3, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"It is *possible* that the Nats could lose, but Johnson won't win."

It is also possible that the Giants could win and Johnson won't be the winning pitcher.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 3, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

It's also possible that I just regurgitated what wigi said in a different format.

But it's also possible that the Nats could win, but Johnson's not the loser. If that happens, do they get full credit for stopping his 300th victory, or just partial credit?

Posted by: nunof1 | June 3, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

"'It is *possible* that the Nats could lose, but Johnson won't win.'

"It is also possible that the Giants could win and Johnson won't be the winning pitcher."

It is also possible that the Nats won't win, but someone other than Johnson will get the W

How many other ways can we say this?

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Nunof1, I think that's the same thing.

go ahead, claim you knew that

Posted by: sjt1455 | June 3, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

That wasn't meant to be jerky, nunof, just having fun. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps you posted over my immediate followup post where I admitted I screwed up. But I still blame everyone except Manny Acta.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 3, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

It's possible that neither the Nats nor Johnson will win - if the game is rained out or suspended.

Perhaps this has already been asked (I'm behind on NJ postings due to having been away for a week), but is Guz having problems with the same thumb that he did last year, after having whacked it on a helmet?

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Fire nunof!! (just kidding)

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

To clarify, my imperative was a jocular follow up to this comment.

---

But I still blame everyone except Manny Acta.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 3, 2009 3:47 PM

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Never mind re. Guz. Seems it was the other hand in that case.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

After reading the headline, I was secretly hoping this post would only list the 1-4 hitters of each team.

Posted by: JohninMpls | June 3, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

John, some hopes should remain secret.

I'll try to forget this incident, but really ... I'm not sure I'll ever see you the same way again. How could you do this to me?

Posted by: Scooter_ | June 3, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Just saw this on mlbtraderumors.com:

Along with Nick Johnson and Aubrey Huff, Heyman says Adam Dunn and Josh Willingham are "possibilities" for the Red Sox.

I'd keep Dunn and would miss Johnson but he's a free agent so you may as well get something for him.

I'm ready for a trade! :)

Posted by: derwink | June 3, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Nati (7-18)
Herna -- 2B
John -- 1B
Zimme -- 3B
Du -- LF
Duk -- CF
Kea -- RF
Gonz -- SS
Nie -- C
Zimme -- RHP

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I was semi-joking a while back about Guz's hitting woes dating back to drawing his first walk of the year against Pittsburgh on May 18. I seem to remember in that same game that he took a bad-hop ground ball off his bare hand (and got charged an error for it). I wonder if he jammed his thumb on that play.

Posted by: joebleux | June 3, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Ha! That's wonderful!

-----

Nati (7-18)
Herna -- 2B
John -- 1B
Zimme -- 3B
Du -- LF
Duk -- CF
Kea -- RF
Gonz -- SS
Nie -- C
Zimme -- RHP

Posted by: JohninMpls | June 3, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Any word on Dunn getting trade? Today on SI.com Heyman links him to the Red Sox

Posted by: natsfan13 | June 3, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

CF Rowand
SS Renteria
RF Winn
C Molina
1B Sandoval
LF Lewis
3B Uribe
2B Burriss
P Johnson

Posted by: brothbart | June 3, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

There's an interesting run down on 300 game winning at BI, including amusing and unwarranted thoughts on a certain not-yet-drafted phenom:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/baseball-insider/2009/06/the_list_the_next_300-game_win.html#more

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Why is Kearns playing?

Posted by: RickFelt | June 3, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Josh must still be under the weather.

Posted by: brothbart | June 3, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Kearns = right handed hitter
Harris = left handed hitter

Johnson = left handed pitcher

Posted by: Brian_ | June 3, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Maybe with Dukes in center, Manny thought it would be a nice gesture to Zimmermann to put a right fielder in the game.

Posted by: joebleux | June 3, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Gonzalez = starter.
... at least until Ian Desmond shows something.
Guzman = traded.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

dunn would be perfect for the redsox. could dh and play the green monster next year. they could pass on resigning bay. i'd love to see lars anderson and a stud pitcher head back this way.

then spin nick johnson to the mets and willingham to the braves.

zimmerman will be lonely by season's end but the future will be clear.

we finally have some trade pieces. let's use them.

sign strasburg and grant green. don't go cheap on the #10 pick! or get another stud pitcher. these chad jenkins rumors bother me even if i have no idea who he is. everyone is calling it a money saver. going cheap in the draft is not how you "rock the red" or whatever that saying is. if we are transitioning a change in philosophy let's see it in action.

Posted by: longterm | June 3, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

No way they trade Dunn or Johnson at this point. Only 2 real left handed hitters in the lineup.


Its Guzman. They get more for him.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Guzman isn't playing. Its Guzman not Dunn and not Johnson.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Kearns = worst position player on the roster
Harris = serviceable outfielder

Johnson = .343 v. LH
.265 v. RH

Posted by: RickFelt | June 3, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

They would absolutely trade Johnson if the deal were right... he's a free agent to be! How much worse could we possibly be with one less left-handed bat?

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

With the weather forecast, I think it might diminish Randy Johnson's odd of winning 300 tonight. There is likely a rain delay at some point and with The Unit's age, he may get the required 5 innings (or maybe he will try to come back out just to make history).

Posted by: QuinnMallory | June 3, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN ...

Silverman notes that the Red Sox have two months to make a deal that could address the situation regarding the slumping David Ortiz or the shortstop position in case Jed Lowrie has a setback.

I suggest Guzman is the target as a better fielder than Dunn or Willingham and he is a switch hitter who is hitting over .300 right now.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

It is "possible" that they could trade for Johnson, let him pitch tonight, and both the Nats and Johnson could get a win! -

Just sayin'

Posted by: lowcountry | June 3, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

How much worse could we possibly be with one less left-handed bat?

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009

_______________________________________________


A LOT WORST!!! As in record breaking worst ... and that would kill attendance and perhaps the franchise itself. If they come out and attempt to field a AA team that no one is going to pay to watch.

Are you guys idiots!?

If they trade Guzman they have 2 guys in Gonzalez (maybe more) and Ian Desmond on the way up at shortstop. They lose a switch hitter.

Johnson, Zimmerman, Dunn, and Dukes appears to be the only thing working.


Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Guzman needs to a) get healthy and b) be traded while he has some value.
Could he already have been traded?

Posted by: SavedByZero | June 3, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Guzman costs too much... Johnson is a 3-month rental with a superb eye and execellent defense at first. The Mets and Red Sox are both possibilities. Dunn's a defenseive liability and strikes out too much, Willingham can't even break into the lineup here!

The best trade value the Nats have is Nick Johnson. Villone and Beimel would go before Guzman or Dunn.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Guzman generates the best trade value. AND HE IS ALSO A LIABILITY fielding at shortstop. Everyone knows Johnson is going to be a free agent. No one is going to give them anything for him. They need him more here in this lineup right now ... more than any contending team!!!! Their franchise is not at stake. This one is.

Gonzalez and Desmond are better fielders. They just need to learn to hit.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Guzman is gone ... that's why he isn't playing I bet.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

There goes pericuscum with the name calling again. Disagree with him and you're an idiot! Facts be damned!

This team is already on pace to challenge the '62 Mets for futility. As a season ticket holder I can tell you attendance is already crap. Losing Nick Johnson won't hurt a thing but might help next year and beyond. He's a solid contributor. And the teams who are interested have some pretty attractive pieces to trade...

Sadly, periculum, there's the trade you'd like to make (Guzman) and the trade you're stuck with (Johnson). No one wants Guzman.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe that we have a winner.

---

It is "possible" that they could trade for Johnson, let him pitch tonight, and both the Nats and Johnson could get a win! -

Just sayin'

Posted by: lowcountry | June 3, 2009 4:38 PM

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"Guzman generates the best trade value. AND HE IS ALSO A LIABILITY fielding at shortstop."

Well, that would certainly make him attractive to any contender. Everyone knows that you can't win without a LIABILITY fielding at shortstop.

And you're calling people "idiots"?

Posted by: joebleux | June 3, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

We need to start a win streak. Let's Go Nats!

Posted by: rachel216 | June 3, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this straight: Guzman -- whom you say is a fielding liability at SHORTSTOP (!) -- is a more appealing option for some contender than Johnson?

I should stop arguiing and just let you talk. I couldn't make you look any more wrong and foolish than you do all by yourself.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Guzman is on the bench because he couldn't catch swine flu if he was dating a pig!

Posted by: soundbloke | June 3, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Or maybe he's hurt again.

No. Couldn't possibly be that.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

outsider6 == MORONIC IMBECILE as usual ...

Only the Nationals (13) have more errors from the shortstop position in the majors, and no team has a lower shortstop fielding percentage than the Red Sox (.937).

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

@ outsider, from the last post:

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I *know* what calling a good game entails--I'm told I call a pretty good game myself. I want to know what Flores has got that them other two guys ain't got.

--Subcutaneous B-12 Blues, AKA Tendentiously Like Achilles

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 3, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

The BOSOX clearly can handle it as the lowest fielding percentage team in the majors. Better than the Nationals.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

"The best trade value the Nats have is Nick Johnson. Villone and Beimel would go before Guzman or Dunn."

I respectfully submit that a man who has hit over 40 home runs every year for the past 5 years and is on pace to do it again this year is of the highest value. Higher than two re-tread relievers and a man who has been on the disabled list every year of his career.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

~smiles~

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

The Red Sox are only a game out of first. They need help at shortstop. Clearly Guzman might be inclined to do a better job fielding for a contender than he has for the team with the worst record in the majors. The entire team's morale has affected their fielding.

Doubtless a rookie shortstop trying to prove himself would be a great deal more motivated to perform well, at least one would hope.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

You're right, periculum. I stand corrected. Base don that stellar research on Guzman's defensive ineptitude this year, he's clearly got the best trade value. Thanks for straightening me out.

I'm sure the Red Sox will now rush to move up from their #30 ranking at short to #29...

Brilliant. And you call ME a moronic imbecile?

Funny how internet anonymity breeds false bravery.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Guzman -> Red Sox.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

This game should be on ESPN. Yet, America will again get the Red Sox shoved down our throats.

Posted by: jctichen | June 3, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I still haven't heard an explanation for how Guzman being a bad fielder improves his trade value. I don't really expect one, I'm just sayin'.

As Bill Veeck pointed out, it's not his value to the Nats that matters, it's his value to the team that needs a shortstop. Personally, I don't think they'd get much for anyone except maybe Dunn, and some pitchers they'd sooner keep, but you never know.

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 3, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Ah... further evidence of his value. It's not that he's a BAD fielder, he's just tanking it because his team stinks.

Who wouldn't want THAT guy in their locker room?

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

"Funny how internet anonymity breeds false bravery.
Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009"

Having just recently pummeled a drunk who attacked me in my driveway? Hmmm perhaps I am worst in person?

Fool, its like the NFL. You get a talented player away from the Raiduhs and suddenly they seem to play better.

This is the worst team, with the worst record, and the worst morale. Have to assume Guzman's fielding would improve dramatically given a chance to play for a contender.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

506: Oh, I certainly think Dunn has value. But he's kind of a niche guy because of the shortcomings listed earlier. Pitching and defense win championships. Villone and Beimel are solid lefties... teams in a playoff hunt love those kinds of guys to round out a bullpen...

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

"Who wouldn't want THAT guy in their locker room?
Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009"

They look at his batting average, the fact he is a switch hitter with some speed? Fielding is more of a "team" endeavor. Requires a 1st baseman who can and is willing to handle errant throws, a second baseman ... lots of factors go into a shortstop's error percentage. Yeah I think they take a chance on him because of his gaudy batting average.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Periculum: blah, blah, blah. Beating up your wife doesn't make you "worst" in person.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

They could get Penny for Guzman.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

So again, Guzman is valuable because he's a crappy shortstop who dogs it on a bad team, and they'll give the Nats a motivated, hungry rookie with upside in exchange.

OR

Guzman, a veteran pro and former all-star who is proud enough to have given the team a discount because he took a year and a half to heal from injuries, is phoning it in, and you know this because, what, that's what you'd do? Because you don't know any of them personally. You're an anonymous slanderer, a chiseler, a blowhard blog poster, and you owe him an apology.

***************
The Red Sox are only a game out of first. They need help at shortstop. Clearly Guzman might be inclined to do a better job fielding for a contender than he has for the team with the worst record in the majors. The entire team's morale has affected their fielding.

Doubtless a rookie shortstop trying to prove himself would be a great deal more motivated to perform well, at least one would hope.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:05 PM

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 3, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"Periculum: blah, blah, blah. Beating up your wife doesn't make you "worst" in person.
Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009"

~smiles~ you wouldn't want to say that to me in person ... last guy, as I said, from Bakersfield CA ended up in the back of a cop car bleeding ... and with a nasty shiner ... ~smiles~

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"Requires a 1st baseman who can and is willing to handle errant throws"...

Geez, periculum, now you're even arguing with yourself! You just stated why Johnson is more valuable than Guzman... keep going, my friend. Making you look silly just gets easier and easier.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"But he's kind of a niche guy because of the shortcomings listed earlier. "

Isn't his niche batting 4th for any American League team? That's actually pretty easy to fit.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Yes, periculum, I'm sure you're a frightening presence in person....

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"You're an anonymous slanderer, a chiseler, a blowhard blog poster, and you owe him an apology."

You're an old retired, fat butt cheeked moron who has no clue what he is talking about most of the time. You insult people, then get angry when they fire back at you because you are so old and decrepit you can dish it out but can't take it.

Go back to your soap opera dude. Goodwin rules ... you break them the most.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

506: I just mean that most of those contending already have their own version of Dunn. I think it would take an injury to a Texeira or Youkilis... but you're right, if a DH is needed, he'd be a compelling possibility.

In terms of broader value, it seems there would be more possible trade partners, thus more demand and choices of returned players, for Johnson, Villone, or Beimel...

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

"Geez, periculum, now you're even arguing with yourself! You just stated why Johnson is more valuable than Guzman... keep going, my friend. Making you look silly just gets easier and easier."

"Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009'

You're an idiot as is that old f*VK 506 years old. Its the bats ... Johnson to Zimmerman to Dunn to Dukes DOES WORK. They are in the top 5 of many offensive stats. That is A DIFFERENCE from last year. You don't break something that is working. You keep it and try to fix other things.

Guzman is a more viable way to do that. You don't have a viable left handed hitting 1st base replacement for Johnson. YOU DO HAVE spare shortstops.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if Willie Harris is hurt? Why is Kearns in the lineup?

Posted by: RickFelt | June 3, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Periculum... not sure who you're addressing. I actually kinda figured that's your profile, to be honest. Based on stuff you say you're clearly knocking on 60. I'm just a kid of 43...

I am retired though... retired from the military after 22 years. I feel pretty old after a double header and could certainly drop a few pounds. not sure what exactly a "fat butt cheeked moron" is (some puncutation would help) but I don't think it applies to me.

And, for the record, you're the one who started calling people idiots. The conversation was pretty civil til YOU got angry.. You can look it up.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how I got dragged into this.

outsider, I'm not trying to harp on you, it just seems Dunn is a good fit to replace Ortiz. But I doubt the Red Sox have the nerve to pull the trigger on that one.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

And yes, even Johnson is having a bad year in the field relatively speaking, and so is Zimmerman. So F^%K Head 506 OutsiderSmallDix, are you going to call Zimmerman "a crappy third baseman who dogs it on a bad team, and they'll give the Nats a motivated, hungry rookie with upside in exchange?" like that Old stanky man 506?

They are all fielding horrifically ... Guzman may be the worst culprit in the infield. But any team looking at this one may feel its a chance worth taking ... that motivation or Manny's "positive aura" might make a difference. ~smiles~

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

"You don't break something that is working."

Um, periculum, we're 14-37. I totally agree that the middle of the order is very attractive as is but...

14-37.

Johnson has value. Guzman, despite a very nice batting average, is too costly.

Really, you must've sucked on your high school debate team.

Assuming you made it to high school, of course.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Yes - Guzman. He's traded, no doubt to the Red Sox for Lowrie, Buchholz and Papelbon.

Oh, wait, what do you MEAN they have to agree to the trade, too. That's no fun.

And by the way, NJ hasn't much trade value either. Injury history is one big minus - he's on a short contract, which means he's a rental (which lowers what teams are willing to pay), and while his .430 OBP is GREAT, his .115 iso power isn't really all that great, especially as a 1b. His .443 SLG is 23rd among MLB 1b. NY has a need, and if you can get something worthwhile, I think you trade him, but if you think you're getting anything other than a High-A type prospect for him, I think you're asking price is too high.

Posted by: Highway295Revisited | June 3, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

506: not a problem... I enjoy a good discussion.

Periculum, take notes.

Dunn in place of Ortiz would be great for them given Papi's struggles. But are they gonna sit someone that expensive AND pay Dunn $10M for 2 years? They can get Johnson, put him at first, and DH Youkilis. And Johnson's gone after October.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

"And, for the record, you're the one who started calling people idiots. The conversation was pretty civil til YOU got angry.. You can look it up."

I think you should look again outsider. I think it was you who insulted first, If you can't take it ... And no, I am not that old and yes I would put you in the hospital for saying the things you said. Plus most of the worst came from 506 who really is older than 60 and is now hiding in his chair ... ~smiles~ That was who I was really aiming at.

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

H295R: all true.

Trade value of ANY Washington National is relative!

And this is very premature. Two months til the deadline. But if some of the big market teams are desperate in late July we could get some young talent to help turn things around.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm still at a loss. I have avoided flaming anyone since 505 rightly chided me. It sort of surprised me, because I thought all the civil people were gone.

If you think we should go toe-to-toe I could, periculum, but I readily admit I don't stand a good chance against a first ballot Hall of Flamer like yourself.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

We'll see. More teams desperately need a shortstop than a 1st baseman. I suspect they won't get as much as everyone would like ... more prospects ...

Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

How much worse could we possibly be with one less left-handed bat?

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009

_______________________________________________


A LOT WORST!!! As in record breaking worst ... and that would kill attendance and perhaps the franchise itself. If they come out and attempt to field a AA team that no one is going to pay to watch.

Are you guys idiots!?

If they trade Guzman they have 2 guys in Gonzalez (maybe more) and Ian Desmond on the way up at shortstop. They lose a switch hitter.

Johnson, Zimmerman, Dunn, and Dukes appears to be the only thing working.


Posted by: periculum | June 3, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Um... next?

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and periculum: "worse" and "worst" are NOT interchangeable.

You could look that up to...

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Periculum - please stop. Just stop. Enough.

The Red Sox's biggest concern about the left side defense is the lack of range. Guzman at his best has subpar range. Lowrie played a couple of months with the Red Sox last year, did not make an error, and the team was pleased enough with his range.

Theo trades to upgrade defense heading towards the playoffs. That is a big chunk of why they did the Nomar trade in '04. Even the Lugo signing was thought to be sensible defensively because of his range (and the belief they could correct his throwing). The current problem is Lugo's knee has robbed his range and he is too shakey in the field. Before they go for Guz, they would look for a good glove, no bat guy, and would only do that if Lowrie does not come back.

The idea behind a Johnson trade is that he can cover for any problem Big Pop-up continues to have and also allows them to occasionally shift Youkilis to 3d, where he is an upgrade defensively.

The idea that Penny makes sense for this team does not make sense. He is signed just through this year. Sure, he'd allow the Nats to send Zimmermann or Detwiler back to AAA to get experience, but you do not trade anything of value for something that is not a long term asset.

Dunn makes some sense if the Red Sox were to DL Ortiz for a couple of months. Clearly, the Dunn is best suited as a DH. There is a chance he could play in LF in Fenway, where lots of bad fielders have been hidden, but right now they have Bay. A trade to backfill for Bay would come in the offseason.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 3, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Seeing as how the Post doesn't intend to enforce their rules regarding profanity and personal attacks, perhaps they might figure out a way to give us an ignore button option? Until then, we'll have to go old school in that regard, I suspect. Otherwise, the trolls will have won (and used up a lot of bandwidth).

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

506: Outside of periculum and nunof1 there's usually no need for getting my Irish up. Maybe dovelevine.

I've said it before: not enough natsfan1a1's in here!

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

"They can get Johnson, put him at first, and DH Youkilis. And Johnson's gone after October."

This is a good point as is the preceding one about salaries. It would be a balance between acquiring a home run hitter of the same quality as the Old Ortiz for higher cost and the lower-cost, smarter ball player (no offense to Dunn). How they read the AL East would have a lot to do with it.

Regardless, I don't think the Sox would ever permanently bench Ortiz (they still have Veritek after all). I bet Johnson is low on their list because of the injuries, too. Outside of our young talent, I really don't believe this team has a lot of trade pieces anymore. The story of this trade deadline might be whether the team thinks it is close to a rebirth or whether it needs to trade what it has for more seeds and keep this misery going another two years.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Keep it coming, periculum. You deserve your own comedy routine. This is some golden material. You've provide us all with endless entertainment at your expense and I'd hate to see that go. I really like when you write "~smiles~." Is that supposed to be some creepy sideshow bob smile?

Posted by: Juni | June 3, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

jca: well said.

Natsfan1a1: sorry for the vulgarity. I get carried away.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

ousider, there's not enough 1a's anywhere in the world.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

For people who are hurling "you're older than I am" insults, there sure is a lot of childishness in here today.

Anyway, back to baseball. Braves just released Tom Glavine after he completed his rehab. Velocity is reportedly down, but a crafty veteran to mentor the youngsters? Probably wouldn't sign with a team destined for last place, however.

Posted by: Bethesdangit | June 3, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

If I were shopping and Guzzie was up for FA this year I might be interested but I still wouldn't give up a lot for him.

How many years does he have on his contract? I don't think anyone wants to take him on for the long term.

There's already more smoke and mirrors to our offense than we hoped there would be. We seem to be better when Dukes is in the lineup whether he's hitting well or not.

We just don't have a lot of depth to sacrifice much from the lineup but I agree that it would make sense to move Guzman.

Honestly I hope they don't trade anybody because my gut feeling is they'll just get crap in return. Would you trust this FO to make a decent trade?

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 3, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

SOT: they say Rizzo is a really good evaluator of talent. I'd like to think they could get something solid in return for some of the current Nats.

Having said that, I really think this team is closer than we think. I've said since late April this is a .500 team except for the 'pen. If we can agree that the bullpen has cost us 10 games -- which I think is a fair estimate -- then we'd be 24-27. At that record we'd be about 3 games out of the wild card. That's not great, but its progress.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

JCA - well put. If the Red Sox are going to give you a young arm with upside or a young-ish MI prospect for NJ, you do it and don't think twice about it. I'm just not sure I'm paying that much for NJ if I'm Epstein.

Posted by: Highway295Revisited | June 3, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Glavine is well past his use by. I don't think you can rely on him to be all that helpful as a player and if he's got something to offer in terms of advice then sounds like he should consider a coaching career. But he shouldn't be figuring that out on our time/dollar.

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 3, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Outsider - I tend to agree with that sentiment, that the team is better than its record, but I think 10 games is optimistic. Every bullpen gives away some games at some point in the year, so if they cost us 10, and they maybe "should" have cost us 3, we'd be 21-30.

Posted by: Highway295Revisited | June 3, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, outsider and 506.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Package NJ, Guz, Dunn, Willingham, Kearns, and Dukes and ship them off to the Red Sox for their first round draft picks in 2010 and 2011. Just shedding the salaries should help and with a bunch of ex-Nats filling in their line-up the picks should be in the top 10.

Posted by: PowerBoater69 | June 3, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Gang...I'm not much of a"poster" but my passion for the Nats and my enjoyment of this site and the opinions has drawn me in. One of - if not THE first- comments I made here mentioned not just my enjoyment of the differing views but of the fact that the tenor was reasonable-heated at times but not ad hominem. Now plenty of times me and my b.ball pal Greggo the Cop have called some opinions and their generators idiots, fools-you name it. But not on the forum. Course disagreements and arguments, yes even heated ones are to be expected...but as we (the Nationals) stink ever lower...well, lets just say that I seem to detect more vitriol being directed at one another. To me it stinks more than our team. Might feel good, might even seem justified...but it takes away from the enjoyment of our shared passion-the Nats! We ALL want the same thing,right?Might have different views on how best to achieve it, but....O.K., enough of my "be nice" hectoring. No, wait...from the Buddha:"for hatred and violence is never ended by hatred and violence, but by love alone. This is an eternal Law".NOT saying no disagreements, even heated ones. AM saying lets act like the Stand-Up guys(and gals)that ALL of us are....and good lord, there's plenty to get apoplectic about regarding this TEAM!And some of the folks involved are some of my favorite posters-who show more insight about this game than it at times appears the people running it do.
Now, as for the Nats....I say we win tonight, deny Randy and play .500 ball or better from here out. And if we needed ANY more proof, methinks it's apparent that Manny is here to stay-leastways 'til seasons' end. Edwin Edwards once said that the only way he'd loose the election for governor of Louisiana was to be caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy. I'm hoping Manny has skills we don't see that's keeping him here rather than ...you know! Best case-this time of tribulation might just contribute to forging a real winner here....I'm droning now-time to go see the game! Go Nats!

Posted by: zendo | June 3, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"But I doubt the Red Sox have the nerve to pull the trigger on that one."

506: If the Red Sox front office is anything like the Patriots, they would not hesitate to make a deal that would help the team. No sentiment or nerves allowed. That's how they win. That and smarts.

Posted by: JohnRDC | June 3, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Well said, zendo.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

H295R: I would SO take 21-30 right now! :)

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

OS6: One thing we've learned this year is this club makes some really dumb decisions and it's not always clear who's making them. Rizzo's a good scout. Whether he can apply that talent to players at all levels is something to wonder about.

Sure this team could/would be .500 if it weren't for the pitching. That would be a nice feeling. But we're supposed to be trying to win a world series one day (did I just say that?? seems so impossible). Could we do that with this offense? How many stable/reliable guys are there in the lineup?

So that's why we need to fire Manny. We really need to understand how this team performs with proper management. Right now we just don't know how many of these guys can be part of the long term plan.

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 3, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Man, things got hot over nothing but speculation.

Gonzalez is up because Guzman's been hurt and slumping. Is it really a stretch to believe his thumb is acting up again?

I mean, it could be something else, sure. But why get riled about it already?

Posted by: JohninMpls | June 3, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

SOT: I agree time will tell. I'm hoping Rizzo's got the goods to find talent and Kasten has an undeniable track record... I hope he do the same thing here he did in ATL.

I strongly but respectfully disagree on Manny. There are a lot of reasons I like and support him, but the biggest is this: at 14-37 these guys are still busting their butts. That's says something about the quality of Manny's leadership. I think, as a manager, he's got as much upside as ZNN, Lannan, Detwiler, and Zimm do as players. He's a work in progress but he's got the tools. He's a good leader, good baseball man, and I think someday he'll win a championship. I hope that happens here and not somewhere else.

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Ladies and gentleman (and I'm being generous with the latter term) lighten-up . . . we won last night.

I take it as general rule that none of the fine participants on this board are actually qualified to run a major league club. I kind of hope no one is actually thinking of quitting their day job based on who they think they can for Guzman or Johnson . . .

Posted by: lowcountry | June 3, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Natsfan -I've enjoyed your stuff. See, that's the thing.There is SO much collective wisdom on display here..I mean, we all want to end world hunger, right? Doesn't mean we are all gonna agree on how to go about it. Ijust hope someone from the Nats' ownership reads this-hello, Mark? Not just for the suggestions but to see what they risk alienating(even more, some would say!)If they just gave the public appearance of appreciating the depth of our passion for a team here for only 5 short years(oops-maybe "Short" is not a word/name to bring up in light of this teams' performance!).....God love 'em, GO NATS!

Posted by: zendo | June 3, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Low: thanks for that. I was just about to tender my resignation. You opened my eyes! :)

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

lowcountry, say what you will, but most of us here invest the time and emotion in running a major league club! Oh yeah, and the ego.

If only that "talent" thing weren't required.

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

~ smiles manically ~

Posted by: Section506 | June 3, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

~laughs out loud~

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 3, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Seriously loud lightning hitting Crystal City right now, with rain getting heavier by the minute.

Over-under on getting a game on tonight?

Posted by: Juan-John | June 3, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Based on the radar map: dicey at best. Although they have played til about 1AM to get 'em in! Don't take metro if you're going!

Posted by: outsider6 | June 3, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

I was planning to head out to the game tonight, but it's now pouring. Has the team posted any info about rain delays/anticipated first pitch?

Posted by: ThatsRich | June 3, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

OS6: I used to be one of Manny's biggest fans and by nature I'm not a knee-jerk sort of fella. If even I've got to the point to call for Manny's head then probably it's time. Whether or not the guys are busting their butts is debateable and whether they're doing it for Manny is even more debateable.

Employees (whether their baseball players or not) like a job where the manager gives them lots of space to work out things on their own time. That's nice for them but it's not going to get great results. Certainly a manager does need to have some patience and does need to give their players room to work things out but he needs to get tough too and provide good leadership. I don't think that's something Manny is going to learn on the job. If he can't tell the difference between "yelling and screaming" and tough love then he's not fit for the job. That simple.

Posted by: SaveOurTeam | June 3, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

hope the grounds crew realizes there is a a massive storm cell rumbling through manassas and heading towads natstown. keep the tarp handy, guys.

Posted by: surly_w | June 3, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm guessing there will be no game tonight. =( This sucks. There's nothing on tv.

Posted by: rachel216 | June 3, 2009 8:16 PM | Report abuse

any chance we'll know before noon EST whether Willingham will be in the lineup for one or both games today...or even if they are likely to play games at all? How's the weather in DC?

Thanks

Posted by: poneil1 | June 4, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Wow, that is kind of odd. Why are the most recent comments at the bottom rather than the top?

Posted by: poneil1 | June 4, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

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