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Here Come the Sawks

Nationals Park might be sold out tonight. But it will not be because of the home team. Folks in Nationals Park are already talking about the influx of Boston fans expected at tonight's game. How many will show up? Are they really that rowdy?

Also, Metrorail has advised all customers to plan for extra travel time both on the Metro and the roads because of yesterday's accident on the Red Line. Delays are expected. But the Nationals have announced issued a reminder that fans may park for free at RFK Stadium's Lot 8 and take the free Nats Express, beginning at 5:30 p.m. and running through an hour-and-a-half after the final out.

Boston Red Sox
1. Pedroia, 2B
2. Drew, RF
3. Youkilis, 1B
4. Bay, LF
5. Lowell, 3B
6. Varitek, C
7. Ellsbury, CF
8. Green, SS
9. Penny, P

Washington Nationals
1. Guzman, SS
2. Johnson, 1B
3. Zimmerman, 3B
4. Dunn, LF
5. Willingham, RF
6. Bard, C
7. Harris, CF
8. Hernandez, 2B
9. Lannan, P

By Mark Viera  |  June 23, 2009; 3:01 PM ET
 
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Next: Chico Returns (No, Not That Chico)

Comments

It will be interesting to see what the breakdown is because when the Yanks were in town in 2006 there was about 65% Nat fans compared to 35% Yankee fans and a lot of those Yankee fans were also Nat fans when they aren't playing each other. That said the Sox fans are the worst fans in the world - loud, drunk, dumb and obnoxious.

Posted by: brothbart | June 23, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

My in laws are coming from Boston tonight for tomorrow's game. I am going to have to suffer through their Red Sawx prattling unless the Nationals can do us right. Although they are some of the few who are not drunk or dumb... The funniest thing is my MIL is the worst of the two - especially since she actively tries to subvert my daughter. They WILL not convert my 10 month old - they may try but they cannot win!

Posted by: mjwies11 | June 23, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Amen. Although I really had nothing against the Red Sox fans until the finally won the World Series. One might hope that 85 years would have taught them some humility. But now, I'm just eager to see them return to the desert of also-rans so that the can re-hone that exisitential angst that they so proudly wear as a scarlet letter on their lapels (or caps, in this case).
___________________________________
Also, the Red Sox and the Yankees are interchangeable for the rest of the baseball world, sorry.

Posted by: Section506

Posted by: lowcountry | June 23, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

For those Red Sox fans that aren't dumb I want to apologize and for the rest (majority) that are dumb I want to say I am sorry. Go Nats!

Posted by: brothbart | June 23, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

"That said the Sox fans are the worst fans in the world - loud, drunk, dumb and obnoxious."

I'd suggest you dress up in all your Nats gear and take a ride up I-95 to Philly the next time the Nats play there if you want to see the worst fans in the world.

Posted by: HistoryBoy | June 23, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

HistoryBoy -

Yeah, the Philly fans are a close, close second, but I think the Sox fans have them beat - followed by the Mets fans.

Posted by: brothbart | June 23, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Let's go, Nats! Come on, Johnny Boy, get in there!

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 23, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I'd say the breakdown will be about 80% Red Sox, 10% Nats and 10% the usual what am I doing here attendees at all DC sporting events.

I'll be part of the Nats 10%. Come on John Lannan - what NY kid wouldn't want to stick it to the chowders tonight?! Would love to cheer on a win tonight.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 23, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm a Caps season's ticketholder and I saw a grown man (with his little kid standing next to him) pour a beer over the head of the woman (who was not being obnoxious) in front of him when the Penguins scored a goal at a game this year. Or just go to a Redskins game. I stopped taking my kids because of the language and the drunks. We in DC are not without our own dumb, drunk, obnoxious fans.

Posted by: HistoryBoy | June 23, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Glad to see Manny is not showcasing Kearns tonight in hopes of raising his trade value.

Posted by: goexpos2 | June 23, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

brothbart: I'll take your declaration that we Sox fans are the "worst" seriously when you reveal that you're actually a Yankee fan.

Posted by: gmg22 | June 23, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

The thing is, most of the members of Pink Hat Nation have no humility because they have only been Sox fans for less than a decade, and they know next to nothing about the history of the franchise. Names like Tony C., Yaz, Freddie Lynn, Pudge, El Tiante, Boomer, Rooster, etc. mean nothing to them. Forget about guys even older than those guys. They might be able to tell you about Aaron Boone or Dave Roberts, but can they tell you what Bernie Carbo did in the World Series??? Hell, most of them wouldn't know who Mo Vaughn was if he ran them over.

As a former (and reformed) Yankees fan who grew up in NY, I've got to say that there used to be something noble about being a Red Sox fan. There was a true core of loyal, knowledgeable fans throughout New England, who really stuck with the team through all the years of heartache, were incredibly knowledgeable about their team, and who defined what it meant to be a Red Sox fan. Sure, I might have gotten into it with some fans like that and said "Boston Sucks!" in their faces, but it was out of respect ;-)

Today though, being a Red Sox fan and a member of the "Nation" has just become a caricature. Red Sox "fans" have largely become arrogant and insufferable, as well as ignorant about their team. While in my experience most of the Sox' longstanding, diehard fans are not happy with the Red Sox Nation phenomenon, and they have no love for the Pink Hat fans, that's just the way things are for them and the fanbase.

And let's all remember, BOSTON SUCKS!!!

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 23, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Red Sox traditionally have powerful lineups. Can the Nats match the power of clubs such as them?

How would you rate the Nats’ position players? Let’s say the range is from 5 minuses to 5 pluses, with the middle being the MLB average for that position. Ratings are for O = offense and D = defense.

C Flores O MLB Average
D MLB Ave

1st NJ
O + (little power for 1B but great OBP)
D + +

2nd Anderson Hernandez
O - - -
D Ave

3rd Ryan Zim
O + +
D + + + +

SS Guz
O ave (very few walks)
D - - (range and throwing accuracy)

LF Dunn
O + + +
D - - - -

CF Willie Harris
O - - - -
D – (speed is fine, jump is fine and catches well, but poor reach for a CF due to his size—nonetheless, Harris is a nice plus for this team given the options)

RF Elijah Dukes
O –
D Ave

Looks like the Nats are pretty far under MLB as a whole, but that’s just one fan’s ratings, without research.

For the future, the Nats get Flores, Ryan Zim and probably Elijah Dukes from the roster of current players. In the minors, the Nats have RF Michael Burgess (hitting just .229 at Potomac but good power), SS Danny Espinosa (hitting just .264 at Potomac but decent power for a SS), C Derek Norris hitting well at Hagerstown (.312 with 14 HR and 51 RBI), and 1B Chris Morrero, hitting .280 at Potomac with some power, and he is young).

So the Nats are in good shape at 3B and probably C and have some hope at 1B, maybe SS, and RF.

From the glass mostly empty dept., not seeing much of anything for the future at LF, CF, 2B-- and no truly top prospects at 1B, SS and RF either. No wonder the organizational minor league rankings of the Nats are so low.

Based on this, why would the Nats draft “under slot” guys in such crucial rounds? No one had those guys as Best Players Available, and it looks like the Nats needed to go for the best players that they could, given their prospects and current roster. Did they do that with their under-slot guys?

Posted by: EdDC | June 23, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Ah yes! the parochial mantra of all Sox fans: if you are not with us . . . you are a Yankees fan.
__________________________
brothbart: I'll take your declaration that we Sox fans are the "worst" seriously when you reveal that you're actually a Yankee fan.

Posted by: gmg22 |

Posted by: lowcountry | June 23, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

gmg22

Okay, I grew up a die hard Yankees fan. However, they kind of fell out of favor when they fired Buck Showalter so I was a fan when they stunk 1984-1995. Although, i still root for them (when they aren't playing the Yankees) I am no longer a fan. There is very little left of the guys I used to watch. My favorite players being Winfield, Randolph, Paggs, Geren, Espinoza, Roberto Kelly, Charlie Hayes. So I do have a bias against Sox fans.

Posted by: brothbart | June 23, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Hey Ed, you know we can deal some of that surplus pitching we have! ;^)

Ah, but nobody ever claimed we have position player depth in the minors.

Posted by: goexpos2 | June 23, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Ah, but I do agree with your draft assertions, even though it didn't seem to be a loaded draft.

Posted by: goexpos2 | June 23, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Ah, I just had back-to-back ahs....

Posted by: goexpos2 | June 23, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Lineups, good.

From Viera, even better!

Mark -

Can you muscle up a post answering the following 2 questions:

1. Why isn't Dukes playing?

2. Is Colome available or are we playing a man short?

Gracias.

Posted by: WebberDC | June 23, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I have been a Sox fan my whole life (and also a Nat's full season's ticketholder since the first day they went on sale in 2004). I saw my first Sox game @ Fenway in 1965 and actually shook hands with Mel Stotlemyer that day!

I agree totally with CoverageisLacking. All those refugees that joined Red Sox Nation over the past decade are an embarrassment. They have no sense of the history of the franchise and all the years it took to get the Sox to where they are now. I honestly said to my wife the night they won the Series in 2004, "I don't care if we ever win another one...I just wanted to see it once."

Its sort of like having a whole horde of baby brothers and sisters who are morons and besmirch the family name. You hate them for it, but they are still in the family and there's nothing you can do about it. But, you can't expect us diehards to just walk away because of these idiots.

So I am BOTH a Sox and a Nats fan. I've kept my tickets all five years and when we turn the corner I will be laughing at all of the members of "Nat's Nation" when they jump on the bandwagon and ruin it for the rest of us.

Posted by: HistoryBoy | June 23, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Manny has finally realised the worst thing in the world for Kearns's trade value is allowing other managers to watch him play.

Posted by: soundbloke | June 23, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Sox fans aren't the worst, they're just the largest traveling contingent surpassed only by Steeler fans. As far as baseball goes, Cubs, Mets, Phillies and Yanks bring up the rear. As an Oriole and Nats fan I stopped going to games when those teams are in town cause I got sick of being a minority in my own Stadium.
Plus we usually lose to those teams too. So I'll wait for the circus to leave town and then come on back down.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 23, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Ok Nats fans, if you're so great, why can I get tickets to every game this week? What's worse, your mickey mouse club or the pathetic (nonexistent) fan base who can't sell out? I may be insufferable, but at least I've watched my team win. I'll trade listening to your loser whining for a championship any day; just like every single one of you would if given the chance. Scoreboard losers.

Posted by: David617 | June 23, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

anyway, i hope i dont get in a fight tonight

Posted by: sect104 | June 23, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to David for making the obnoxious Sox fan case so much better than any of us could.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 23, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

And at 4:31pm David617 explains -- probably without realizing it -- why he and his ilk are treated with such disdain. Even by other Red Sox fans who are blessed with more maturity. (see HistoryBoy's post at 4:24pm)

Posted by: greggwiggins | June 23, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

I'll trade listening to your loser whining for a championship any day; just like every single one of you would if given the chance. Scoreboard losers.Posted by: David617

Wow someone needs a hug.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 23, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't think any Nat fan is claiming to be "great". I think its a little sad that a fan of such a great championship team has time to come into a Nats blog to crap on the crappiest team in the league. Hey we're fans just like you guys. We know our team isn't great, but we're still going to support them to the end....championship or not. We waited 34 years to have a team in our backyard and we finally got it in 05....whats wrong with defending our team and showing some loyalty?

Go Nats! Go Yanks!

Posted by: FloresFan | June 23, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Manny is listening ... LOL. Perhaps the notion of Harris in center, with Willingham and Dukes alternating in right strikes him as the right thing to do. Willingham leaves things a big weak in right defensively. Dunn in left makes two holes.

The Willingham deal was a mistake. They needed defense not hitting after landing Dunn. Of course last year their best hitter Johnson was again on the DL. Now with their best hitter batting second they look a bit better.

Need Zim to break out of the slump.

I am in complete concordance with the trade Dunn and anyone else. But you'd almost have to go to Florida and get Maybin for the outfield; then a package of players that included Dunn might be worthwhile. As for pitching, I think they've got plenty of starters on the way up. Especially given Mock's, Bally's performances of late. Olson plus Estrada.

Maybe they should get Rauch and Ayala back?

Hopefully Storen pans out.

Not worth even thinking about Strasberg until Rizzo signs him.

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Phillies "fans" are the biggest bandwaggoners in sports. They had less than 20K in the stands for YEARS. A poor baseball town, at best.

Posted by: CausewaySt | June 23, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Jesus Colombe was never sent down.

The Nats have more minor league depth than you think.

SS - Desmond, Espinosa
1b - Marrero, Rhinehart
2b - Lombardozzi
c - Norris
OF - JP Ramirez

Thats just a few.

Posted by: natsguy | June 23, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Jesus Colombe was never sent down.

The Nats have more minor league depth than you think.

SS - Desmond, Espinosa
1b - Marrero, Rhinehart
2b - Lombardozzi
c - Norris
OF - JP Ramirez

Thats just a few.

Posted by: natsguy | June 23, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Now see what you've done. You've attracted a Sawx troll. David617, you really are the most adorable little thing. Going on and on in your cute trollish away about "mickey mouse" this and "loser whining" that. I hope you can stay as our Sawx troll mascot.

Posted by: mojo6 | June 23, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

David617 is a good example of why most people don't like modern day Red Sox fans. People used to feel sorry for the Sox fans like most still do for Cubbies fans. Winning actually turned "whining losers," as David617 would say, into jerks and bandwagoneers.

Sure, it is easy to go buy a ticket to 3 games a year, especially if you will pay the asking price - try going to 81. It is expensive and time-consuming and most cannot do it. DC is also very transient and just got a new group of people in the last few months to town so they will be hooked soon.

Posted by: ilovethenats | June 23, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

My pleasure. :)

I'm just sick of hearing about how horrible we are. We're at a sporting event, do you want us to be silent and defer to your fans? Wait, they're not there. How do sports fans show humility? Why is it even an issue?

The only fans who whine about how other fans act are those who follow losers. Trust me, this message board was repeated ad nauseum whenever the Yankees came to town for decades. You can only hope that some day, you'll win and then some other weak team's fans can whine about how you treat them poorly.

My hat isn't pink, but my wife's is.

Posted by: David617 | June 23, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse


Me thinks David617 may be a Sawks fan.

Hmmm, well I'll tell you what dude let's compare the Redskins attendance throughout the years with the Patriots ... even and especially when they were losing. Let me know "Sawks" fan what you come up with?


The Nats are still "the Expos" in many ways. They have yet to forge a "DC" identity. The loyal fan base, yes its true, is likely made up of die-hard Washington Senators fans who absolutely abhorred the idea of following the O-R-I-O-L-E-S, one of the gov'ner of Ballimer's teams.

All that is needed is a new "Big Train" or the equivalent of a "Sonny Jurgenson" a "Brooks" or "Cal Ripken" to bring a hometown focus to DC fans' loyalties. Then the games will sell out. Its why the owners became enamored with the idea of a Texiera signed on long-term. Hometown boy and one of the best in baseball. That's how you draw fans. In NY he is just another too highly paid pinstripe playing in the shadow of "the Babe", DiMaggio, and "Mr. October".

Best player the Sawks ever had was Ted Williams bar none. That's why it took 85 years, its why it may take another 85 years.

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

If only the Nats had a wealthy owner, a nice place to play, and a fan base.

Dirty little secret about Red Sox fans - a lot travel because it is easier to get tickets out of town. Always was the case in Baltimore, even at Memorial. I used it as an excuse to get out of work in bosotn and interview down here in 1989. No one blinked.

It is a strong regional team from an area with plenty of transplants spread around the country. Sure that's been supplemented by a bit of a bandwagon lately, but frankly, if you even think most of the Sox fans are post 2004, then you really never were at OPACY before then.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 23, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I can't think of a team I've wanted to see lose more than the Red Sox.

Amazing isn't it? We all rooted for them in 2004. Now just a few years later they have eclipsed the Yankees as the most loathed team in MLB.

Posted by: sbiel2 | June 23, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Let's Go Nats,
Not Pink Hats!

Posted by: natsguy1 | June 23, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

After suffering thru multitudes of Philthy Fans and hoardes of goof-ball Mets fans I decided it wasn't worth the aggravation of sitting with the ESPN generated Red Sox Nation. I sold two games worth and made a tidy little profit. BTW I was rather particular to who I made my sales, two sets went to bonifide Nats fans and one set went (for free) to a wounded warrior from South Boston who is laid up over at NNMC.

Posted by: TippyCanoe | June 23, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

FloresFan, the only reason I posted was the first two comments called my Boston brethren drunk, obnoxious, losers. I'm just playing the part that is clearly defined for me.

Yes, I'd agree that Sox fans are loud and seemingly came out of the woodwork in the last 5 years, and some of us can't pronounce our R's very well. But we're not all drunk idiots and if you came up to Fenway for a game, you'd be much safer than in horrible places like Philly.

Posted by: David617 | June 23, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

David617, I hope I will have enough class to treat the fans of other teams with respect (as you do not) and to recognize our mutual love of baseball (as you do not) when the gods of the game grant the Nationals the sort of success your Red Sox have had recently.

So it would seem that in your opinion HistoryBoy, a Red Sox fan since 1965, is one of those fans who follows losers because he calls the actions of some more recent fans of his team (not to point fingers but, just sayin') an embarrassment? True, for most of that period the BoSox were anything but successful -- but by calling HistoryBoy a loser you are, ipso facto, calling the Red Sox losers. Has that realization hit you yet?

Posted by: greggwiggins | June 23, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

EdDC:

Gotta differ with your offensive ratings. Just looking at the VORP for this year each of the players you listed:

Flores: 8.9 (good for 7th among all catchers in the majors, much better than average, but an admittedly small # of at-bats; still, 3+ or 4+ on your scale)
NJ: 16.6 (11th among ML first basemen - more like 3+ or 4+ on your scale)
Hernandez: 0.4 (32nd out of 54 - OK, not great, but essentially replacement-level offense - either ave or 1- on your scale).
Zimm: 20.6 (8th among ML 3rd basemen - good for 4+)
Guz: 15.5 (6th among ML SS - gotta be 4+)
Dunn: 20.9 (5th among ML LF - 4+ or 5+)
Harris: 3.3 (27th of 54 ML CF, but better than replacement-level; let's say ave. on your system)
Dukes: -0.8 (would put him at 36th among ML RF, so 3-; not surprisingly, Kearns is a -3.9, good for 42nd place).

Posted by: TomServo | June 23, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Man, no one could sum it up better than CiL and lowcountry.

The baseball gods need only tell me what offering would be sufficient to allow the Nats to take the series. I'm prepared to pay.

I really hate this team.

Posted by: JohninMpls | June 23, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

David617:

Look forward to having you with us losers for the next few days ...

Wouldn't you agree with me that anything less than a Boston sweep by large margins in each game against our hapless, pathetic nine would be a complete and abject failure by your perennial champion club?

I hope you'll come back so we can discuss it over the next few days after the teams have had a chance to actually, you know, play some games.

PS If you wouldn't mind trading us a few measly young arms and bats for our shiny 1B and SS (Nick Jawhnson and Cristian Guzmahn) we'd be grateful.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 23, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

periculum

Wlligham was traded for when the plan was to out bid everyone for Teix, and we had no left fielder. Then Teix fell through, we signed Dunn and no one wanted Nick or Willighm.

Posted by: soundbloke | June 23, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

@ David617's "The only fans who whine about how other fans act are those who follow losers": I think that statement wd be rather difficult to prove. Moreover, since Boston lost for so many years, why are you criticizing those who follow losers? And finally, I think sticking by a team as long as it's trying hard is the right thing to do, and that's where my heart is. Our guys who are trying hard deserve better than fair-weather fans. All that said, welcome to Natstown, David. I hope we all see a tight, tense, well-played game that is ultimately won by the Nats.

Posted by: Section109 | June 23, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

One last thing. ENTITLEMENT. One thing we Sox fans always hated about the Yankee fans is that they felt they were entitled to a championship every year. Even if they got to the World Series and lost, that season was considered a failure.

Now we Sox fans have become just like the Yankees. We feel entitled to win and that is why people now see us as obnoxious.

There's no joy in the fact that we have owners, unlike the Lerners, who plow most of what they make back into the team and spend a fortune maintaining Fenway so we don't lose it. There's no joy anymore in just the thrill of being in the hunt every year and watching a good team, much of it the product of a great farm system.

Now all the Pink Hats want is "Just Win Baby!" Being a Nats fan is like having a child and watching it grow up and there's a lot of joy in that besides just winning all the time.

Posted by: HistoryBoy | June 23, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I'd be happy to wear a frilly, huge brimmed, Hoggette-like pink hat to games for a 10-20 game winning streak by the Nats. A couple in close proximity would be much nicer ...

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

HistoryBoy, I think I would greatly enjoy sitting in your section at a ballgame. I don't think I could say the same about David617. And that's the difference between the TRUE Red Sox Nation and the Pink Hat Nation.

Posted by: greggwiggins | June 23, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"The thing is, most of the members of Pink Hat Nation have no humility because they have only been Sox fans for less than a decade, and they know next to nothing about the history of the franchise. "

Excuse me, are the Red Sox the only ones with caps in colors not worn on the field? Camo? Green?

CiL - what would you say to a person in a pink hat with a white curly W? They are in the souvenir shop, you know.

I don't mind people giving grief to front runners, fans who lack knowledge of baseball, or who are there to be seen. But I'm very tired of using the phrase "pink hat" to describe such fans. I do know female fans who wear pink hats who don't fit how people use that phrase. It's one of those contributions to American slang (perhaps attributable in part to columnists in the Globe like CHB and Wilbur) that I wish we would not adopt. It should be as much a part of our language as chanting an O in the National Anthem.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 23, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I don't particularly care about other team's fans, I just want to be able to get an update on my team from Baseball Tonight once every other week or so.

Posted by: Section506 | June 23, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

The Nats have more minor league depth than you think.

SS - Desmond, Espinosa (not ranked, next year?)
1b - Marrero, Rhinehart (still a long way to go.)
2b - Lombardozzi (still a long way to go.)
c - Norris (ranked but still a long
way to go.)
OF - JP Ramirez (longggg way to go.)


Posted by: natsguy | June 23, 2009

NO RELIEF PITCHING. Other than Clippard. (and Storen?). Plenty of starters who are almost ready.

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Ummm, excuse me. I seem to recall walking up to Fenway and getting good tickets on gameday just a decade ago. I guess the Nation was not so big in those days. You know, it bears mentiong that before the Sox recent good fortune, Washington had won a World Series more recently - and, of course, we didn't even have a team for thirty-three years.
___________________________
Ok Nats fans, if you're so great, why can I get tickets to every game this week? What's worse, your mickey mouse club or the pathetic (nonexistent) fan base who can't sell out? I may be insufferable, but at least I've watched my team win. I'll trade listening to your loser whining for a championship any day; just like every single one of you would if given the chance. Scoreboard losers.

Posted by: David617 |

Posted by: lowcountry | June 23, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh, diogenes_quixote, you're not losers, but the Yankee comparisons were too crushing, I lashed out. Mea culpa.

But if we're talking baseball and no longer making personal attacks, I'd honestly say the Sox have a tough game ahead tonight. They don't typically hit sinkerballers well and Lannan's gb/fb ratio suggests we'll be plugging many balls into the dirt and are too slow to beat them out. Plus, our bench isn't great so fun National League double switches can come back to bite us.

Posted by: David617 | June 23, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

All sox fans aren't dumb, obnoxious and drunk, but enough of them are. As an O's fan living up north amongst them, I was the recipient of many beer showers from the idiots in the bleachers. I wasn't rooting loudly, but apparently wearing any out of town team's colors upsets their sense of style. But I've got to say that I was recently at an O's game At Camden Yards and found many of the hometown fans equally obnoxious. Not even Griffey Jr. was given any respect. Goes to show there are LOSERS everywhere. GO NATS!

Posted by: natsfaninexile | June 23, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"But I'm very tired of using the phrase "pink hat" to describe such fans."

How about the 'terrible towels'?

The really stupid O-R-I-O-L-E-S song.

Of course many an NFL fan grew tired of hearing the Redskins anthem after the plethora of touchdowns against their team. Worst when it was 'natinally' televised. I kind of like 'natinal'. :)

Throw Charlie Sheen out there on the mound with Ray Walston behind him as "the devil" from Damned Yankees. Avenge the many times the Nats have been the Yankees, the Mets, and now the Sawks doormats!

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

But seriously folks, on the substance of the game instead of the insults, it will be interesting to watch Lannan vs. the Red Sox hitters tonight. Hitters have laid off Lannan's outside the strike zone pitches this year about 5% more than last. He is still homer prone when hitters get flies. The Red Sox have several hitters who hit well with 2 strikes and will wait for pitches they can hit well. It will be an interesting battle to see if the Red Sox can wait him out for pitches they can hit in the air. Enjoy the game.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 23, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Ahhh, this is why we put up with the internet:

"But if we're talking baseball and no longer making personal attacks, I'd honestly say the Sox have a tough game ahead tonight. They don't typically hit sinkerballers well and Lannan's gb/fb ratio suggests we'll be plugging many balls into the dirt and are too slow to beat them out. Plus, our bench isn't great so fun National League double switches can come back to bite us."

and

"But seriously folks, on the substance of the game instead of the insults, it will be interesting to watch Lannan vs. the Red Sox hitters tonight. Hitters have laid off Lannan's outside the strike zone pitches this year about 5% more than last. He is still homer prone when hitters get flies. The Red Sox have several hitters who hit well with 2 strikes and will wait for pitches they can hit well. It will be an interesting battle to see if the Red Sox can wait him out for pitches they can hit in the air. Enjoy the game."

Well, that and this:

http://tinyurl.com/p9bv7t

Posted by: Section506 | June 23, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Hey David, what position do you play for the Sox? Or are you a memebr of the front office staff?

If the answer to both parts of that question is neither, than you've done no more to help the Sox win, than I have contributed to the Nats losses.

We're just fans. So, lighten up and don't take yourself so seriously.

At least our tradition of losing in DC is only 4 years... give us a chance to build a history here.
---------------------


Ok Nats fans, if you're so great, why can I get tickets to every game this week? What's worse, your mickey mouse club or the pathetic (nonexistent) fan base who can't sell out? I may be insufferable, but at least I've watched my team win. I'll trade listening to your loser whining for a championship any day; just like every single one of you would if given the chance. Scoreboard losers.

Posted by: David617 |

Posted by: comish4lif | June 23, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Having attended 3 of the games during the Nats-Phillies disaster last month, I can saw without question that the Sox fans don't hold a candle in terms of worst fans in all of sports (not just baseball). Not to defend Sox fans, but there's probably a reason nobody even talks of "PhilsNation" one year after winning their championship. Also, I don't think Sox fans boo their future Hall of Fame players and then show up 25 years later wearing their jerseys (I had to laugh when I saw all the Carlton and Schmidt jerseys in the stands, given how they were treated by the home team fans when they were on the field).

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 23, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

HistoryBoy, you are a credit to your team(s), and I'd be happy to be seated in your section on any given day as well.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 23, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm predisposed to like anybody who is a serious baseball fan, although I find it hard to understand how anybody who grew up in the DC area would choose to be a Yankee fan. I like to remind my Yankee fan friends that few teams others than the Senators ever finished 10th, but one of them is the Yankees.

Posted by: nats24 | June 23, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Now I'm hungry for a taco, 506.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 23, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Red Sox nation invades.. ugh. At least they'll be wearing red.

Posted by: rachel216 | June 23, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Growing up in Ma, I was naturally a Red Sox fan. Moved to Va in 1992.

I'll be at the game tomorrow and rooting for (all times) THE WASHINGTON NATIONALS!!!

Posted by: thegraneys | June 23, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

David617: "Ok Nats fans, if you're so great, why can I get tickets to every game this week? What's worse, your mickey mouse club or the pathetic (nonexistent) fan base who can't sell out? I may be insufferable, but at least I've watched my team win. I'll trade listening to your loser whining for a championship any day; just like every single one of you would if given the chance. Scoreboard losers."


sect104: "anyway, i hope i dont get in a fight tonight"

David617, meet sect104.

Posted by: gilbertbp | June 23, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Wow - lots of comments today. I was just going to say good luck to Willingham tonight. Go Nats!

Posted by: PattyinSJ | June 23, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Can we all agree that every team has its share of asshats as fans?


Can't we all just get along?

Posted by: gilbertbp | June 23, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I remember a time when the Sox didn't draw so well, moons ago when they were an alsoran club. Yes, things have changed and DC is currently an alsoran club. But this, as in all things will change. I don't think it will take 86 years or however many years it took the Sox to do it. Get a new stadium up there. You can speak of charm all you want, it still stinks.

Posted by: cokedispatch | June 23, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

thelonghaul: "Also, I don't think Sox fans boo their future Hall of Fame players and then show up 25 years later wearing their jerseys (I had to laugh when I saw all the Carlton and Schmidt jerseys in the stands, given how they were treated by the home team fans when they were on the field)."

Ask anyone who followed the Red Sox in the 1940s and 1950s how popular Ted Williams was in Boston.

Posted by: gilbertbp | June 23, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Magic 8 Ball sez: Signs point to "no."

---

Can't we all just get along?

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 23, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Along the lines of minor league depth - we have only Zimm in the lineup tonight that has come up through our farm.

We definitely have SP getting more and more respect as prospects (including ones we are forced to use with the big club), but position players - to me, maybe Desmond and Marrero right now are the only ones I see as being relatively close.

Posted by: goexpos2 | June 23, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Even with all the adversity the Nats again find that they are richer than many would have thought:

Starting Pitching (all young).
Lannan.
Martis.
Zimmerman.
Detwiler.
Stammen.
________________________________________
Balester.
Olsen.
Mock.
Estrada.
Atilano.
Arneson.
Martinez.
Meyers.
Mandel.
Martin?
Chico?
Strasberg.

But relief pitching?

Hanrahan.
Clippard.
Zenicola.
Severino.
Storen.

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

I think the Nats need smokin' hot cheerleaders. Looks like "Just a Nsts Fan" would be a good start.

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Ted Williams. Yes, he wasn't all that popular. One of the reasons they almost traded him the Yankees for Dimaggio. They got greedy and asked for too much.

In Washington its Joe Cronin, Walter Johnson, and that's pretty much it really. Minnesota fans got to see the great crop that came up from the farms in the 60's. Oliva, Killebrew, Carew.

Posted by: periculum | June 23, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Wow, seems like it only took one troll to get everybody's dander up.

CiL, good observations, and well stated regarding the "johnny-come-lately" RedSox fans, of which our troll seems to be one of.

HistoryBoy: Regardless of "your team", you seem a true fan of the game, and would be welcomed into most any discussion that centered on baseball, imo. A well reasoned, clearly stated initial post - thanks, and welcome to our little piece of the blogosphere.

Posted by: BinM | June 23, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the comments on position player ratings. I compared Nats' starters to other starters, not to other clubs' starters and subs (all players). So if Harris is 23rd best CF, for example, that is below average for an MLB starter, but maybe average for all CF.

Also it would be nice to think that the Nats have a surplus of pitchers. However, that's a big stretch, unfortunately. You can get five good ones out of the bunch. Will they be MLB average? Maybe (and maybe even better than that), but there's no surplus as we look at it now.

Posted by: EdDC | June 23, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

If you grow up in New England, you get inoculated with Red Sox mania when you get your other vaccinations. I don't know of anywhere else in the country where EVERYONE is behind their ballteam--nuns, kids, families, grannies, bus drivers, rock bands, EVERYONE. It is such a passion that love of the Red Sox is regularly mentioned in obituaries and Red Sox flags adorn gravesites. It's like a club. As Stephen King has famously written, we are the FAITHFUL. We're not all newbies. If the DC area had the same passion for the Nats that the Red Sox inspire, maybe that beautiful new stadium could have the sellout record that Fenway Park has maintained for so long. I'm sure this will draw many clever Nationals comments along the lines of "Red Sox suck" (so original!) but we value our team, our traditions and we have a lot to be proud of.

Posted by: bosoxgal | June 23, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

All Sox fans aren't like anything. I live in Boston (but am from Montreal) but I have a friend who can name the rosters of every affiliate down to short season, and another who doesn't know who Nick Green is but boasts that he once got flipped off for calling Sheffield an A-hole.

They have a large fan base so they have a large number of jack asses and a large number of true die hards.

Can we talk about the Nat's again now?

Posted by: soundbloke | June 23, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

As my paternal grandfather lay dying in the summer of 1974, a nurse propped a radio next to his ear so that he could listen to his beloved Red Sox.

In February of 2008, as my father's coffin was dropped below the surface, I took pride in knowing that tucked beneath his hands was a commemorative Red Sox ball cap I had purchased for him. He loved that team.

I was a Senators fan. From 1971-1981 I attended no MLB games. I started going to Memorial Stadium and Camden Yards, but I was never a fan of the O's. They just were not my team. I was waiting for the day for baseball to return to RFK.

Red Sox fans are great and I welcome them to Nationals Park. They know the game and they cherish its nuances (aside from the DH, an absolute distortion of the game).

Many Red Sox fans also root for the Nats but I know and understand where their loyalty rests.

I have been waiting for this series since baseball came back.

I just wish my father were here to share it with me.

Posted by: jbartelloni | June 23, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Well, team record for attendance tonight, well played game for 7 innings and nice weather, then the bullpen struck.

Sox fans are in DC to see the ballpark and root for their team, sorry if we travel well. Many have been to Camden, Wrigley a couple of years ago, San Diego, etc. It's a good thing, not a bad thing.

And most important, the Yankees lost again!

Look forward to seeing the park tomorrow and Thursday, used to live in DC and always enjoy coming back.

Posted by: KG523 | June 23, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

"Bandwagon Nats Fans"

Two ardent young fans of the Nats
Could care less about Austin's stats
They're age three and four
And love their ador -
Able pink curly W hats.

They come to the park and eat ribs
And chow down on brownies and Dibs
Which I hold in my sway
'Til the Nats make a play
They cheer, and then eat like pigs

So Nationals games equal candy
(As long as they do something dandy)
For instilling esteem
Of the hometown team
Boy chocolate sure comes in handy!

Do bribes make them bandwagoneers?
Or pink hats that come down past their ears?
The big Church of Baseball
Has all kinds of faithful
Some just more tender in years

Posted by: nationalsanthems | June 24, 2009 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Nicely pitched game by Lannan, but the starters have got to be getting a bit fed up with the performance of the bullpen, no? Clearly, that's the big hole that needs to be filled for the Nats -- but improvement on the field requires money, so I urge all you Nats fans to buy tickets and support your team. It's hard to get out to the ballpark when the result is so often disappointment, but I can't think of any other workable option. If you can't get to the game, watch it on TV and boost the team's revenue that way. It may be a long haul, but the payoff down the road is sweet. I know all this probably sounds a bit condescending; I'm sorry for that, and it's certainly not my intention to condescend. I was stationed in and around DC for more than a decade and I love the city. I was pleased for you when you landed a team and I'd like to see them do well. Hang in there and don't give up on them, is all I'm sayin'.

On the topic of Red Sox fans: regardless of whether the crowd featured a lot of non-native fans, it was nice to see the ballpark full, wasn't it? I hope most of my brother and sister Sox fans behaved themselves. Please accept my apologies for those who did not -- there are slugs in every fanbase, and we certainly have our share. We're a bit giddy with our recent success, and sometimes our enthusiasm sends us over the edge into obnoxiousness. Don't judge us too harshly -- we're really not bad people.

jbartelloni, my condolences for the recent passing of your father. I'm happy at least that your dad got to see them win a couple. My dad didn't have that unique pleasure -- we buried him in '92 -- but he had a lifetime of joy from following the Sox, so I can't feel too bad about it. Anyway, your post brought back some memories for me, so thanks for that.

Looking forward to a couple more good games. Go Sox, and good luck Nats.

Posted by: Tom_P | June 24, 2009 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Tom-P, if I recall correctly, the Lerners had the second highest organizational profit in the game last year. And you are preaching to the choir here re. supporting the team. Just saying.

---

Clearly, that's the big hole that needs to be filled for the Nats -- but improvement on the field requires money, so I urge all you Nats fans to buy tickets and support your team.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 24, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

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