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The last two nights, I've tried to figure out the number of Red Sox fans at Nationals Park. This requires a good bit of guesswork. First of all, no other fanbase has a greater affection for T-shirt jerseys; Sox fans own T-shirt jerseys honoring everyone from Manny to El Guapo. Also, Sox fans are loud. If Kevin Youkilis gets a double, for instance, the You-ining that follows sounds Fenway-esque. Third, they stay at the ballyard 'til the end. Last night, by 10:40 p.m., down at the Navy Yard Metro stop, the ratio of Boston caps to Curly W caps was about 3:1.

That said, I still think Nats fans have retained control of their home stadium for this series. Several times during the last two nights, when the games where still tight, Boston fans tried their "Let's Go Red Sox" chants. Nats fans stood them down with louder "Let's Go Nationals" chants.

Also, if you pick out any one section and just count fans -- look at what they're wearing, etc. -- Nats fans out-number the Sox fans about 2:1 or 3:1. If I had to guess, Nationals Park has held about 15,000 Boston fans for each of the first two games in this series. Boswell, who attended the game on Monday night, was willing to guess as little as 10,000.

Speaking of Boz, and speaking of opposing fan invasions, here is his latest column. Boz analyses the power of the "visiting-team gate" -- DC has already taken its turn as Citizens Bank Lite this year, and will be filled by Cubs fans later this season -- and wonders whether the Lerners see this merely as a convenient stream of revenue.

Here's the gamer. Craig Stammen might be thinking about that full-count change-up to David Ortiz for a while.

Especially because the Nationals need to make room for Scott Olsen, who pitched well last night for Class AAA Syracuse in what figures to be his last rehab start.

The Globe's Adam Kilgore, in his gamer, looks at the rejuvenated David Ortiz.

John Smoltz makes his first start for the Sawx tonight.

Manny Acta, a blogger like all of us, writes about interleague play.

Stan Kasten is speaking at the National Press Club this afternoon.

By Chico Harlan  |  June 25, 2009; 8:34 AM ET
 
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Next: Some Guy Named Smoltz

Comments

Hit it Stank

Cheap is small and not too steep
But best of all cheap is cheap
Circumstance has forced my hand
To be a cut price person in a low budget land
Times are hard but well all survive
I just got to learn to economize

I'm on a low budget
I'm on a low budget
I'm not cheap, you understand
I'm just a cut price person in a low budget land
Excuse my shoes they dont quite fit
Theyre a special offer and they hurt me a bit
Even my trousers are giving me pain
They were reduced in a sale so I shouldnt complain
They squeeze me so tight so I can't take no more
Theyre size 28 but I take 34

I'm on a low budget
What did you say
I'm on a low budget
I thought you said that

I'm on a low budget
I'm a cut price person in a low budget land

I'm shopping at woolworth and low discount stores
I'm dropping my standards so that I can buy more

quality costs, but quality wastes,
So I'm giving up all of my expensive tastes.
Caviar and champagne are definite nos,
I'm acquiring a taste for brown ale and cod roes

Low budget sure keeps me on my toes
I count every penny and I watch where it goes
Were all on our uppers were all going skint
I used to smoke cigars but now I suck polo mints

I'm on a low budget
What did you say
Yea I'm on a low budget
I thought you said that
I'm on a low budget
I'm a cut price person in a low budget land
I'm on a low budget
Low budget
Low budget

Art takes time, time is money
Money's scarce and that aint funny
Millionaires are things of the past
We're in a low budget film where nothing can last
Moneys rare theres none to be found
So don't think I'm tight if I don't buy a round

I'm on a low budget
What did you say
Yes Im on a low budget
I thought you said that
I'm on a low budget
I'm a cut price person in a low budget land
I'm on a low budget
Say it again
Low budget
One more time
Low budget

[i look like a tramp, but dont write me off,
I'll have you all know, I was once a tough
At least my hair is all mine, my teeth are my own,
But everything else is on permanent loan.
Once all my clothes were made by hand,
Now Im a cut price person in a low budget land.
I'm on a low budget
Ill have you all know
We're on a low budget
I'm on a low budget


Posted by: Brue | June 25, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

New Posted...

Can anyone tell me if there is a record of how many times we are one strike away from avoiding a rally...only to have someone like Papi smash a 3-2, 2-out pitch over the CF wall? Is it just me or are we consistantly one strike away...

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 25, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Hey gang...Bravo, Brue...more proof that the most talented part of Natsland is here at NJ.Go Nats!

Posted by: zendo | June 25, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

'mornin' fellow natsochists

is there anyone else having flashbacks to when susan "come see the stars of the other nba teams" o'malley marketed the bullets the way stan the plan is embracing fans of opposing teams at nats park? maybe he knows he can't fool us anymore.

Posted by: surly_w | June 25, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Word on the street is that Stan K also is inviting members of the Philadelphia, New York and Boston press clubs to the luncheon to inflate the crowd.

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 25, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

I understand Stan is going to talk about how to turn your team and stadium into a time share.

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Hey Chico, are you going to attend Kasten's luncheon? Maybe you can ask him about Mark Lerner lying to DC about not taking any money out of the team, as Boswell explained in his column. Then perhaps you will be as popular with Stan as Barry was.

Start covering the Lerners, Chico--that's what you said you wanted to do in that silly Washingtonian piece. They're the story here behind this miserable team and its small-market ways.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 25, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Hmm, StanK on the stump at the National Press Club. Whats he gonna say, "I'm sorry for carrying on the DC tradition of bad baseball". Of course not, he's gonna try to sell a Caddy and but in reality the best that he can do is point you to a 1984 Chrysler K Car. Oh StanK please go away!

Just spoke to my friend who I sold one set of my ST's to for last night's game. Asked him if Sec 104 was invaded by the Baked Bean Hoardes, answer....., he said it was about 50-50. Well that's alot better then Opening Day when we must have been at 70-30 DC Good-Guys vs Filthies Fans.

Glad this 3 day extravaganza is coming to an end. Mr. B hit the nail on the head in his latest expose of the Lerners. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if your stadium is within a easy days drive or a short train/air trip and can be combined with visiting famous landmarks the visiting Yankee hoardes from the North will once again come and Carpet Bag us here in the Southland. Of course to the Lerners as long as the green keeps coming and the trinkets keep selling they could care less who shows up at the centerfield gate.

Posted by: TippyCanoe | June 25, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

The business of fan support at the game is an interesting one. I am inclined to agree that the park has not been overwhelmingly filled with Sox fans, but they are extremely vocal. In my section (which has a lot of single ticket sales) I would guess that we are 50-50, but the Sox fans are a lot more vocal, apparently because they are used to being that way, and we are not - which I don't think is bad, because I like others would like to just sit back and enjoy the game.

One thing I started doing last night was to shout NATIONALS! at the end of each of their (a small vigilante cheering group near me)cheers, on top of "Red Sox" - let them do the work of clapping and shouting "let's go". I figured it muffled their cheer a bit, and certainly made me feel good!

I also think that we should vary our cheers - at these games we should be shouting,"let's go Nats", and save the "let's go Nationals" for the Mets games.

Finally, a couple of years ago someone suggested doing entirely different cheers, and I wish the stadium announcement system would encourage this -in particular someone suggested "go go Nats go go" which I liked a lot, and have not heard elsewhere.

Posted by: Traveler8 | June 25, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Where does Boz find those $6 beers?

Posted by: SimonOliverLockwood | June 25, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

I was at the stadium w/ two other guys, and all of us felt like there where a LOT more Sox fans than Nats fans in the stadium.

Boz is insane if he thinks it was only 10K. Chico, you're nuts if you think it was only 15K.

Did you look around when Boston's homers left the park? The whole place was on its feet cheering. It wasn't just that they were loud; there were tons of them, all over the stadium. Definitely more than 50%.

Posted by: usmc53 | June 25, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I suggest shouting BUCKY DENT tonight.

I understand for SAUUUUEUX fans it's like silver to a vampire

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

@CB

How about cheering "BUC-KY DENT AA-RON BOONE!" for a double whammy?

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 25, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Brue, you and I almost never agree and we've exchanged insults a time or two. But anybody who can pull out a Kinks classic to make his point can't be all bad.

Well done.

Posted by: baltova1 | June 25, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

simonoliverlockwood:

Boz thinks beer may be $6 cuz he probably doesn't have to pay for his. Reminds me of George HW Bush, running for President, when he didn't know the price of milk at the grocery store.

Any, free sandwiches, free beer, and promises of access may account for why Boz is hopeful that the Nats may be ready to start spending at the MLB level to provide an MLB product. I wonder what he really thinks?

Posted by: EdDC | June 25, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I yelled "the bandwagon is full" a lot last night, seemed to p*ss off more than a few Green B hat wearing knuckleheads.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

The Nationals are a joke. The Nat's, as well as the O's will always be a joke. Two owners, one network and all the money in the world. So why such bad products on the field year after year? I don't think Pete and the Lerners are going hungry, do you? Makes you wonder why you need to donate money to lost causes. Well, that's not fair, I give money to diseases that I would like to see cured in my lifetime. Maybe the disease we call Nationals baseball can be cured. Do you really think so?

Teams just don't change their stripes without gutting themselves internally. What's going to change for either one of these teams? Really read into Boswell's article with regard to the TV money. If the Nat's receive $25,000,000 from Peter Angelos, how much you think Big Petey is getting?

There are so many holes to these organizations and the way they are presented on the field and through their own marketing. It's just so damn hard to like someone that is half assing it. At what point is enough, enough?

This is why I am a White Sox fan. Say what you want, they are always in it and they are very responsible to the bottomline and their fan base. By the way I could care less about the bottomline, but if it's a goal by the ownwer, winning should be a goal too. And here is a concept, the owner WANTS TO WIN. It's a priority every year, not just the 20th year of a 20 year plan.

Oh, and to you Chico... Get out of the press box, there were more Red Sox fans then Nat's fans at that game last night. I don't think the Nats have more than 20,000 fans. I think the Caps have raced past the franchise with a new stadium with their fanbase....

Posted by: llamawin | June 25, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

We've been doing that at Nats games for going in five years. Would be great if we could get other Nats fans to join in (and maybe I wouldn't lose my voice then).

As for other cheers, I've also heard talk of N-A-T-S, Nats, Nats, NATS from back in the day.

---

One thing I started doing last night was to shout NATIONALS! at the end of each of their (a small vigilante cheering group near me)cheers, on top of "Red Sox" - let them do the work of clapping and shouting "let's go". I figured it muffled their cheer a bit, and certainly made me feel good!

I also think that we should vary our cheers - at these games we should be shouting,"let's go Nats", and save the "let's go Nationals" for the Mets games.

Finally, a couple of years ago someone suggested doing entirely different cheers, and I wish the stadium announcement system would encourage this -in particular someone suggested "go go Nats go go" which I liked a lot, and have not heard elsewhere.

Posted by: Traveler8 | June 25, 2009 9:05 AM

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

@leetee1955

YESS and lets get a highlight package of the 86 series, while playing music from No No Nanette.

Have Ray Knight throw out the first pitch with Bill Buckner.

And get Mr. Bartman to come during the Cubs series to throw the first pitch.

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

uh, I meant going "on" five years.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

a white sox fan? barack, is that you?

Posted by: surly_w | June 25, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I'd recommend having Moises Alou throw it out, and Bartman catch it during the Cubs series.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Chico,

I agree with CIL. I respectfully request that you push the Lerner's hard on their "small market" spending. They have been bottom five in payroll every year so far and are in a top 8 market. What gives? When are we going to see an significant increase in payroll?

They are making a lot of profit and are one of the richest owners in the game and they are on a shoe string budget. They have some explaining to do to the tickets buying masses.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

@CB

The scoreboard could show clips of the 1946, 1967, 1975 and 1986 Sawx Series losses.

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 25, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

So I did a brief survey of the # of six fans actually from N.E.. In the 5 rows I found 2. Quite laughable. Even more laughable was the youk chant after Kotsay made a nice play. Even more laughable then that was the lack of knowledge about their own team. Actually its sad. 80% OF THESE PEOPLE AREN'T FANS. They're fake insecure people who need to associate themselves with something to make them feel better.

Posted by: JDB1 | June 25, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

In re. the bandwagon chant, I found some nice t-shirts here:

http://www.cafepress.com/malsdad

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

"Also, if you pick out any one section and just count fans -- look at what they're wearing, etc. -- Nats fans out-number the Sox fans about 2:1 or 3:1."

You forgot to look in the sections I was sitiing in - 109L Tuesday and 321 Wednesday - where it was at least 10:1 Red Sox.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 25, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

p.s. Would make a nice poster, too.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

excuse me the six should have said sox

Posted by: JDB1 | June 25, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

10-15% Red Sox fans? I mean are you guys seriously blind and deaf? It had to be close to 50% so far in each case. What a joke. The only decent crowds are when the opposition's fans fill up the seats.

Yeah, DC is a baseball town. Thanks Kasten for building a pile of cr*p team to drive away the few people in this town that care about the sport. Baseball has failed twice here and is well on its way to a third collapse.

Posted by: jollyroger2 | June 25, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

leetee1955: Bucky Dent, Aaron Boone - that's all you've got? Those are meaningless now, along with 1918. The Yanks no longer inspire dread, to say the least. (Now if you could think of some witty chant about waiting too long to sign Jason Bay ... you might be onto something.)

I've been at each of the past two games, and have to take slight issue with this post on a couple of points. There have been a few mild "Let's go Nationals" chants in response to the visitors, but nothing (least where I've sat) that's remotely approached the Sox fans' chants. Second, anyone who thinks there have been anything over 40 percent Nats fans in attendance (probably closer to 30 percent) is engaging in wishful thinking.

Love the ballpark, and love to watch the Nats whenever I can, and now that I make my home here, root for them when they're not playing the team I grew up watching at Fenway. The Stars & Stripes Club is tremendous, as is the food, and some unique aspects like the Presidents Race. Yeah, the salary disparity is unfair (this is a real problem with baseball), and so of course a team with Boston's salary is going to have an edge over the Nats. But, that said, we play in the same division as the Yanks, and need to compete there, though the Yanks' salary is a good $80M higher. Appreciate the DC hospitality ... sorry if the invasion has at times been obnoxious, but until Nats' management draws large crowds because the product on the field draws them in, that's always going to be the case against teams with large national followings. In the meantime, take heart - the Pirates will be in town soon enough.

Posted by: DPAlexandria | June 25, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Classic bandwagon-jumping recommendations, even if they are from last year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/080620

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

1a,

Loved the B is for Bandwagon site. It would have almost been worth the money to wear one of those last night.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

"leetee1955: Bucky Dent, Aaron Boone - that's all you've got? Those are meaningless now, along with 1918."

That's true, since the vast majority of Sox "fans" don't know about anything that happened involving their "team" prior to 2004.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 25, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

"Also, if you pick out any one section and just count fans -- look at what they're wearing, etc. -- Nats fans out-number the Sox fans about 2:1 or 3:1."

Uhhh...no. I'm in Sec. 130, right behind the Nats dugout, and I'd say there were no more than 100 Nats fans in the whole section.

And I'm sick of hearing how wonderful it is to have big crowds from the media. I'm a season ticket holder, and it isn't so wonderful to be sitting among loud obnoxious fans of the other team, no matter how much money they are spending. I can't wait for this series to be over.

Posted by: raymitten | June 25, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

J Maxwell is hitting close to 400 with power and speed since he was sent down . We know he can play defense better than anyone we have and his hitting is coming around. I say DFA Kearns and bring up Maxwell. Play him on regular basis and bat him sixth, not eight. If given the right chance this guy is another Grady Sizemore. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by giving this guy a full shot this year.
If I am Rizzo, I trade Johnson, DFA Kearns and have Maxwell, Willingham, and Dukes playing the outfield. Maybe even trade Dunn and bring up someone to play first.

My main point is to give Maxwell a real shot .

Posted by: mjames0 | June 25, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Coverage: I grew up watching Dewey Evans, Tony Armas and Jim Rice roam the outfield, and watching Marty Barrett and the immortal Jackie Guetierrez turn DPs. '86 is still a painful memory, as is getting swept in the playoffs by the A's, etc etc. I assure there are an inordinate number of diehard fans who lived and died in hard times and are now enjoying some success -- a welcome change. Some bandwagon fans, yeah, I'm afraid it's inevitable as the price of success. But a large percentage of the fans you've seen this week are the real deal.

Posted by: DPAlexandria | June 25, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Recurring theme: Young Nats pitcher mows through the batting order the first time. Second time around in the order, the batters make adjustments and tear the young pitcher a new one...

This outing last night underscores the need to find a veteran starter who can teach the younger kids how to make their own adjustments, how to not show all their pitches during the first go around in the order and in knowing when to be aggressive.

Posted by: TimDz | June 25, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

But a large percentage of the fans you've seen this week are the real deal.

Posted by: DPAlexandria | June 25, 2009 9:50 AM
______________________________________________________________

Yeah, Whatever. If they have a NE accent, I buy it. But, a lot of these bandwagoners have brand new looking shirts and hats, pink and green hats for pete's sake.

Save it for someone that is buying, DPAlexandria.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

This outing last night underscores the need to find a veteran starter who can teach the younger kids how to make their own adjustments, how to not show all their pitches during the first go around in the order and in knowing when to be aggressive.


Posted by: TimDz | June 25, 2009 9:57 AM
_____________________________________________________________

Novel idea TimDz but, that would require that the Lerner's actually open the checkbook and spend some money on someone like say, Derek Lowe.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

mjames0:

Trade Dunn? I'm glad you're *not* Rizzo.

Hell, I'm glad *I'm* not Rizzo right now.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

@mjames0: J Max is definately worthy of another shot. The last time he was here, he saw nothing but breaking/offspeed stuff and flailed his bat like a fly swatter.

It will be interesting to see what he can do with this if/when given another chance. I would guess that, until he proves otherwise, his next stint in DC will also be a steady diet of breaking balls.

Posted by: TimDz | June 25, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

DP, we've been over this before on this blog, but it's hardly a large percentage. The "fans" who were sitting near me on Tuesday night couldn't tell me anything about the following players: Tony C., Pudge, Rooster, Boomer. I asked them to tell me about Bernie Carbo's World Series heroics: no clue. I kid you not about any of this--and believe me, I didn't instigate this discussion, it was prompted by them telling me I was "going to have a problem" if I continued to cheer for the Nats.

Then of course there was the guy sitting next to me who told me that he "went to the '67 Series" but yet thought it was cool to make fun of the Nats throughout the game. For someone who supposedly lived through all that disappointment, you'd think he could show a bit more class.

I can't wait to watch Rice's HOF induction in a few weeks and see all the members of the "Nation" pretend that they embraced him for all those years. Of course, since he works for NESN now, even the bandwagoners know who he is. Bunch of jokers....

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 25, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

505203: One can only have hope...

Posted by: TimDz | June 25, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Once again, I think I'm going to the wrong stadium watching a different game than most of you. Last night, I was still in the Infield Gallery (318) and it looked to me that there was more Nats fans than Sawx fans. The difference, though, was that the Sawx fans were indeed more vocal. Maybe it's the impending doom that we Nats fans have (unfortunately) grown accustomed to ... sort of like what the real Sawx fans experienced from 1918-2003.

Anyway, both nights now I've brought along colleagues that are true Red Sox fans, live in the DC area but have never been to a Nats game (either at RFK or at Nats Park). Both nights, my guests were very impressed not only with the stadium, but actually with the Nats as well. Each of them thought the Nats were like the Bad News Bears (pre-Kelly Leak) but were surprised at how the Nats stuck with their beloved Sawx. And now, all four of them (two different folks each night) want to come back to Nats Park to watch a Nats vs. anyone game (in which they will be rooting for the Nats). So for me, if having to suffer through a packed stadium with a slight majority of the other teams' fans, but to then have some of those fans walk away with a good experience at my ballpark and willing to come back later this year, then it's worth it. I've tried converting my AL-only friends into becoming a Nats fan to no avail. But so far in this series, it's working.

Posted by: erocks33 | June 25, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Can we all say it? - Disco Demolition Night
____________________________
"This is why I am a White Sox fan. Say what you want, they are always in it and they are very responsible to the bottomline and their fan base."

Posted by: lowcountry | June 25, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

erocks33: You're my kind of people.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Anybody else notice the shot on the jumbotron during the game of Ted Leonsis?

Good reminder that his team had the same problem of too many visiting-team fans a few years back, and nowadays it's able to literally bar anyone from a particular visiting-team ZIP code from buying tickets to Caps games. Kind of a vision of where the Nats could be in a few years if they play their cards right...

Posted by: Juan-John | June 25, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I was greeted by a lot of fellow Nats fans last night like we were soon to be extinct "Thank GOD! Another one." I was up in the bleeders and it was ugly (What's the sound of one Nats fan clapping?), but shimmied in to the 100s late in the game and it was more balanced. Man alive though. Don't these people have towns? Don't they have teams?

Posted by: dottdc | June 25, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Just a word on obnoxious fans.

I have had the pleasure to experience the greatest most obnoxious fans in all 4 of the major sports right here in old DC.

And up until Tuesday that honor was held by NY Giant's fans.

But to my great surprise I would say that title has passed on to a new generation.

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Do you all want to see a sign of what the LernerStans actually think about the fans who come to Nats Park? A real, actual sign? Then check out this picture:

http://twitpic.com/8bee9

How could the Nats possibly set up a dunk tank to dunk your "favorite rival" and then have AL teams as 3 of the 4 rivals? These bozos in Nats' management never cease to amaze me.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 25, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

DPAlexandria and CoverageIsLacking, could you guys just get a room for your Yankee Fan vs Red Sox fan p*ssing contest? This is a Nationals blog, y'know.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 25, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I suspect that the dunk tank might bring in quite a bit of money if Stan or one of the Lerners were willing to take one for the team.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, nunof, you can go back to your cave now.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 25, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Saw that CIL. Flat out ridiculous. My son did it and asked if the guy could wear a Va Tech shirt (since we are Terps fans and dislike the school who's team colors don't match) instead.

I mean why not right? That is about as relevant to a Nats fan as the Yankees and Red Sox jersey's.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

CIL,

Are you sure it's Nunof1?

It maybe Section417, DCCapsfan, spamcastin, etc.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

"Several times during the last two nights, when the games where still tight, Boston fans tried their "Let's Go Red Sox" chants. Nats fans stood them down with louder "Let's Go Nationals" chants.

Also, if you pick out any one section and just count fans -- look at what they're wearing, etc. -- Nats fans out-number the Sox fans about 2:1 or 3:1."

You're out of your mind if you are talking about Wednesday's game. I did not hear a single "Let's go Nationals" chant. There was a smattering of boos after the first few "Let's go Red Sox" chants, but then only the strategically placed sound effects from the speakers trying vainly to break up the chants.

Get real. 70% Red Sox fans. 15% Indifferent. 15% Nationals fans (also indifferent).

Posted by: member5 | June 25, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Chico,

What sections did you look at for your count of Red Sox vs. Nats fans? Are they the sections around the press box, which are traditionally full with Nats fans even on nights when the Sox aren't in town? Did it occur to you those might be season ticket holders, who are going to be at every game, rain or shine?

I think if you went out (and up) to the usually empty sections of the park (i.e., to the seats that would have been most available to Red Sox fans) I think you'll find the ratio was heavily tilted towards Red Sox fans in the seats. Even in the Mezzanine where we sit, which is usually about half empty, the empty half seems to have been 80% filled with Red Sox fans.

You and Bozwell need to come down out of Povich-land and actually walk the park while the game is going on if you want to guess about something like this.

Posted by: wahoo2x | June 25, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

True, 505. Of course, we can't forget ABM either. Maybe he'll go ahead and insult some people once again by making fun of Nick Johnson's kid, or Manny's accent, or make some entirely new inappropriate comment, and then change his moniker again.

Posted by: CoverageisLacking | June 25, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Brue -- thanks for the vintage Ray Davies/Kinks.

Posted by: twinbrook | June 25, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Get real. 70% Red Sox fans. 15% Indifferent. 15% Nationals fans (also indifferent).

Posted by: member5 | June 25, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------------

Exactly correct from what i saw in 313 after Ortiz's homer.

Posted by: stantonpark | June 25, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

CIL and 505 - Pardon my presumption - but it seems that one of the ways in which we have managed to maintain civility around here is to refrain from answering a discourteous post with more discourteousy. Besides, I know that you both really just want to talk baseball . .

Posted by: lowcountry | June 25, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Just from watching from afar (Cape Cod) on NESN, it's very hard to believe that there were more Nats fans (than Red Sox fans) in attendence the last two nights. As someone upthread posted, it looked like nearly the entire park stood and applauded at Ortiz's HR last night.

I don't doubt that a fair share were of the "pink hat" variety but a lot of Sox fans will travel in that in some ways it's easier (and less expensive to a degree) than going to Fenway.

National Park looks great...hope to check it out soon.

Posted by: dhshoops2001 | June 25, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

First of all, I have reading all these scathing references of “bandwagon” Red Sox fans infiltrating Nats Park. I was indoctrinated into the “Nation” by my father at birth in 1958. I commend you for some of the references to 1967, 1975, 1986, Bucky (profane) Dent and Aaron (profane) Boone. You forgot to reference the 1946 7th game loss to the Cardinals when Enos Slaughter scored from 1st with 2 out in the ninth to win the series. Why can’t we bring the 1924 World Series into the conversation since that was the last time a D.C. team won anything in baseball with a valiant effort by Walter Johnson? Other than being a clueless Redskin town that hasn’t won anything since 1991, D.C. will soon have the dubious distinction of being the only city to have lost 3 MLB franchises in the near future. So pile on while you can Natinals (no SP here) fans, it will be over soon and you can go back to watching “The Danny Snyder Show” 24/7-365. Enjoy!!!

Posted by: redsoxnation | June 25, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, redsoxnation looks like someone who knows his business. I recommend that we just extend him a warm welcome to NJ.

Posted by: lowcountry | June 25, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Stay classy, redsoxnation.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I guess the truth hurts. Take care and have a safe holiday weekend next week.

Posted by: redsoxnation | June 25, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure what your point is, redsoxnation, but hi.

Posted by: Section506 | June 25, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

And I'm sick of hearing how wonderful it is to have big crowds from the media. I'm a season ticket holder, and it isn't so wonderful to be sitting among loud obnoxious fans of the other team, no matter how much money they are spending. I can't wait for this series to be over.

Posted by: raymitten | June 25, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

I totally agree. I'm a season ticket holder in 129 and it's been awful. Definitely more Sox fans than Nats fans and it amazes me that the media is actually reporting there are more Nats fans. It makes me wonder if they are actually attending the games.

Posted by: kebcam | June 25, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

And the "B" is for Bandwagon, dammit!

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

redsoxnation:

Don't forget starting Galehouse in the '48 playoff, Aparicio tripping rounding 3rd in '72 and Johnson taking out Willoughby in '75.

At least we can laugh about it now. Sorta.

Posted by: dhshoops2001 | June 25, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

As someone said on this blog earlier...

It's funny to see Red Sox fans turn into arrogant, smack talking, jackasses, just like the Yankee fans they use to abhor....and "redsoxnation" just made that point. Nice job, fella.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Sadly our ranks have become subsumed with green,pink etc. hat, Nomah t-shirt wearing, only go to Fenway to get drunk and sing 'Sweet Caroline' in the 8th inning fans. But the vast majority of Sox fans are baseball loving fans first and foremost.

Posted by: dhshoops2001 | June 25, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I'll be honest, redsoxnation ... Red Sox fans were a lot more fun before the team won again in 2007. Many of y'all have gotten quite a bit uglier since then.

Roger Angell wrote way back in 1962 that Yankees fans "expect no less than perfection. They coolly accept the late-inning rally, the winning homer as only their due. They are apt to take defeat will ill grace ..."

In contrast, he wrote of Mets fans in that 40-120 inaugural season that they had a "recognition that perfection is admirable but a trifle inhuman, and that a stumbling kind of semi-success can be much more warming ... c[oming] from a wry, half-understood recognition that there is more Met than Yankee in every one of us."

NatsTown 2009: Painful but ours nonetheless.

Enjoy your champions, redsoxnation - I'm willing to wait for one of my own - as I have since 1964.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

It's probably a bad idea to characterize all of a large group of people. It's probably also a bad idea to use phrases like "the vast majority" or characterize them based on the length of time they've been fans.

It's probably a bad idea to make any anecdotes into trends.

But it might be a good idea to share good and bad Red Sox fan stories.

Posted by: Section506 | June 25, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"But it might be a good idea to share good and bad Red Sox fan stories."

...drawing a blank here...

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 25, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

First off, as a lifelong (and formerly long-suffering) Sox fan, I empathize with Nats fans getting their park overrun. Admittedly, I'm one of the people overrunning it, but I can empathize. I live here and root for the Nats when they play any other team.

Having said that, the crowd numbers cited in this blog and what Boz thinks are so far off that I wonder how close either of you have gotten to the ballpark this week. Let's look at some numbers:

I was at the game on Sunday (vs. Blue Jays) with a listed attendance of 26,610. Attendance the past two nights has been around 41,500. If EVERYONE at Sunday's game was a Nats fan and they ALL showed up again this week, that's still 15,000 Sox fans.

But that was a beautiful Sunday afternoon, Father's Day. A typical weeknight Nats game draws more like 19,000 fans, and let's face it they aren't all there for the Nats. But if we assume they are, that's still 22,500 Sox fans. Given what I have seen of the crowd the past two nights, that is definitely a conservative estimate.

I love the Sox. But there's room in my heart for the Nationals, as they're an NL team not in direct competition. If the team weren't so godawful and the ownership at least gave the vague impression that they're trying it would be a lot easier to support them.

Posted by: praxis22 | June 25, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

New Posted...

Can anyone tell me if there is a record of how many times we are one strike away from avoiding a rally...only to have someone like Papi smash a 3-2, 2-out pitch over the CF wall? Is it just me or are we consistantly one strike away...

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 25, 2009 8:45 AM
_____________________________________

Thinking the same thing over and over again.

One thing about the Red Sox and Yankees and Rays is that they get men on base and are so clutch which I guess is reflected in their respective records.

Last night was surely a game of inches, that ball hit by Zim was 36 inches away from being a HR, and AHernandez was 2 inches from a RBI double in the 8th(?) inning, and Ortiz on the 2 strike count was an inch from being a K victim before he blasted the HR......

Posted by: GoingGoingGone | June 25, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

TimDZ: "This outing last night underscores the need to find a veteran starter who can teach the younger kids how to make their own adjustments, how to not show all their pitches during the first go around in the order and in knowing when to be aggressive."

Um, isn't that what a pitching coach is for? If McCatty can't do it, howabout they spend a little time with Dibble, who talks about that kind of stuff all the time?

Posted by: gilbertbp | June 25, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

diogenes_quixote: "Roger Angell wrote way back in 1962 that Yankees fans 'expect no less than perfection. They coolly accept the late-inning rally, the winning homer as only their due. They are apt to take defeat will ill grace ...'"

And before that, the NY Daily News's Jimmy Cannon wrote that his idea of a good day at the ballpark was "when the Yanks jump out to a quick 8-0 lead and then slowly pull away..."

Posted by: gilbertbp | June 25, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

First of all, I have reading all these scathing references of “bandwagon” Red Sox fans infiltrating Nats Park. I was indoctrinated into the “Nation” by my father at birth in 1958. I commend you for some of the references to 1967, 1975, 1986, Bucky (profane) Dent and Aaron (profane) Boone. You forgot to reference the 1946 7th game loss to the Cardinals when Enos Slaughter scored from 1st with 2 out in the ninth to win the series. Why can’t we bring the 1924 World Series into the conversation since that was the last time a D.C. team won anything in baseball with a valiant effort by Walter Johnson? Other than being a clueless Redskin town that hasn’t won anything since 1991, D.C. will soon have the dubious distinction of being the only city to have lost 3 MLB franchises in the near future. So pile on while you can Natinals (no SP here) fans, it will be over soon and you can go back to watching “The Danny Snyder Show” 24/7-365. Enjoy!!!

Posted by: redsoxnation | June 25, 2009 11:20 AM
------------

This is the kind of crap we are putting up with this week. What kind of Yahoo posts this on a Nationals board? So his point is that we shouldn't be rooting for our own team in our own park?

Here's some of things I've experienced as a full season ticket holder during this 'wonderful' sellout series:
1. Red Sox fans 'high fiving' me as I leave the park after losing 11-3. (I pointed out to them that the Red Sox were in fact the first team in league history to defeat the Nationals, and congratulated them on the accomplishment.)
2. A Red Sox fan telling me 'you can't sit there' in my season ticket seat because they wanted it.
3. Red Sox fans screaming like idiots arguing balls and strikes in the 9th inning of an 11 - 3 game. You've won. Shut up.
4. Getting into an argument when I asked one of them to sit down during play after his five minute 'standing ovation.'

I used to root for the Red Sox in the AL prior to this series. Never again. They all hate Yankees fans but the irony is that they are exactly like them. There is no difference whatsoever between a Red Sox fan and a Yankees fan. They have the same false sense of obnoxious glib entitlement. Nationals management courting these people by 'thanking them' for their attendance during the game, and announcing 'we hope you enjoyed the game' after the Nationals lose is NOT going to gain them long term success.

Posted by: raymitten | June 25, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

All,

I would like to apologize for any loutish behaviour displayed by someone pretending to be a Red Sox fan during this 3 game series. However, if you are a Nats fan you would want the Lerners to invest in the on the field product so that future "invasions" by the visiting teams do not occur.

Posted by: redsoxnation | June 25, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't mind redsoxnation invading NJ-land, as his/her buddies are invading our stadium, but the comment about DC losing a third MLB team was both cruel and inaccurate. If he/she knows so much about DC sports, is he/she not aware that the Nats rank among the most profitable teams in MLB, despite the attendance figures?

I admire and enjoy talking to serious baseball fans. I go to see the Nats in other teams' parks and try not to be too blatant and obnoxious to the home fans, but I defintely cheer for the Nats, and I've never been hassled or insulted. Maybe I've just been lucky, or the home team fans know the Nats are so pathetic, they pity me.

And Boz, where's the $6 beer at Nats Park???

Posted by: nats24 | June 25, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

I'll do this quick - concentration of sox fans varies a lot by section of the stands. I've sat in the lower bowl (111U) and upper area (304) the past 2 nights. It seems the lower bowl has a much higher concentrationof sox fans than the upper area. I'll vouch to the 9:1 in parts of the lower, and rough 50/50 in the upper.

My guess is that the lower bowl is full of season ticket holders with premium level plans who flipped their seats on stub hub or are part of groups with premium palns that bought extra seats for these games.

Boz and Chico's math just does not work. Even assuming that Boz's midweek 17K is accurate (when we've seen plenty of crowds around 12K paid), and assuming none of the season ticket base has transplants who are sox loyalists first and nats fans second (my mirror lies to me everyday when I see myself), it is not credible that the minimum 24K bump in attendance is more than half Nats fans who are simply attracted to the game by the desire to be near those Red Sox bandwagon front runners that my friends SoCH, 505-203, and others have nothing but complements for.

I have something more on this over at wnff.net - the blocker here stopped the longer post.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 25, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

10,000, 15,000 whateva. When the Sox leave town you'll once again easily be able to hear the birds and crickets chirping at Nats Stadium. And $20 box seats will once again be plentiful.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 25, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and as an aside to my fellow Red Sox fans - I freely admit to being a front runner. I waited until I was 8 years old and they had a 10 game winning street in 1967 to start following baseball.

Look - this is blog mostly populated by FANS OF ANOTHER TEAM! I really do not expect them to be nice to my team, or fans of it. No need to rise to the bait that sum of the chummers throw out there. If it gets your goat that they make the occasional overstatement or other inaccuracy, so what?

Stick to facts when you reply, not insults. Someone complains about only native born WASPs are regulars, mention Lowell, Ellsbury, Ortiz, the former starter known as Lugo. You can even let Bay and Youkilis slide, and ignore the pitching staff. Admit it was funny that Kotsay got a Youk chant (I missed the substitution too). Relax, and enjoy the game.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 25, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"some of the chummers"

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 25, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

However, if you are a Nats fan you would want the Lerners to invest in the on the field product so that future "invasions" by the visiting teams do not occur.

Posted by: redsoxnation | June 25, 2009 12:28 PM
______________________________________________________________

You think so Doctor? Investing in the on field product to make it better.

That may be obvious to you and the majority of other fans but, to the Lerner's you're speaking a foreign language.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Section 135: Hi Boz,

Did Acta and his coaching staff get schooled last night by the Red Sox Staff. Early in the game, Youkilis did not like a strike call and instantly you could see the bench go to work, so well orchestrated that Terry Francona got a free shot at ump face to face about balls and strikes without having to leave the dug out. It was amazing and it worked, the next inning Ortiz should have been called out on a 3rd Strike call but the next pitch he hit the HR.

Acta and his staff do not even understand what just happened to them. Why is this part of the job excluded from Manny's job description and at what cost?

Tom Boswell: Thanks. Perfect example of Manny's biggest problem. And the nats FO has talked to him about it. He just doesn't want to change. I thought the 2-2 pitch call the next inning, immediately followed by the full-count three-run homer by Ortiz, was exactly the reason that ALL big-league m,anaers should have SOME fire. The team wants to be defended, think the manager has their back. Nobody is classier than Francona, but he gave a clinic on how a sane man can keep his dignity and still give the HP ump a good chewing. He started off hot, then really got in Davidson's face __truly seemed mad, not just "wroking the ump" and trying to get to Stammen_ then backed off. You can't prove he got a"amke up" call, but I certainly think he did. And I bet the Nats think so, too.

This IS part of any manager's job description __including the sainted joe Torre, who knows how to argue and bench-jockey when it's appropriate. The Nats had a very "live" bench in '07. Less so now. If anything costs Acta his job, it will be his passivity with umpires. You can be sane and mature with your own players in private __or not. It's a choice of management styles. But you have to have a "hot" bottom in a sport that's so competitive and where half the games are decided by one-or-two runs. You just have to have some EDGE. And if you don't have natural leaders on the team __and the Nats don't__ then it flls even more to the manager. And Manny isn't providing it.

_______________________

Posted by: JayBeee | June 25, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Look - this is blog mostly populated by FANS OF ANOTHER TEAM!

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 25, 2009 12:57 PM
______________________________________________________________

JCA,

With all due respect, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I too was born and raised here. I grew up a Reds fan and was until 2004. I'm strictly a Nats fan now, if the Reds have a great season, well, great for them, I'm no longer interested.

I think there are more of this type of fan on here than you might think.

Sure, there are good number of the waffle between two teams type too but, I think there are a lot of hard core Nats fans that don't give two sh*ts about another team as well.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Nice post JayB. And so very true.

I don't the guy could get worked up if someone slapped his mama.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

"if you are a Nats fan you would want the Lerners to invest in the on the field product so that future 'invasions' by the visiting teams do not occur."

We do, redsoxnation - boyohboy, do we - and we all desperately hope that letting "invaders" fill our seats (and thus our wallets) will mean we can improve the team sooner than later.

Don't forget that the Red Sox and 28 other teams allowed MLB to essentially empty the Expos' farm system in during the whole contraction debacle earlier this century. It's easy (and kind of fun) to pick on the Lerners but we've got a lot further to go than other teams to get better.

Championship-quality teams are usually one piece away; expansion teams have the luxury of needing everything and having nothing.

Our franchise came to Washington not having what it needed, not needing what it had, and lacking much in the way of resources to make significant changes. Say what you will about the Lerners - they didn't even get the "keys to the team" until almost a year in.

We'll get there - but it's gonna suck more often than not. I plan to suffer every step of the way.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Moving on to another subject, how about a good turnout for the guys in Baltimore this weekend? My boyfriend and I are going Sunday.

Posted by: Section109 | June 25, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

505, I take your point but I think that jca's fans of another team comment was meant to point out that the Sox fans shouldn't complain about derogatory comments made about their team on a blog that is populated largely by fans of another team, i.e., the Nats.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

We knew for a year+ that this was going to be an embarrassment and it has been.

I predicted 80% Red Sox fans, 10% Nats and 10% bemused neutrals. I think I might change that to 70% Sauks, 20% Nats and 10% bemused neutrals. Still bad. We've got a long way to go.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 25, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

To add to DQ's history lesson, this team also lined the pockets of the other 29 teams during the years that MLB owned it.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Sox fans shouldn't complain about derogatory comments made about their team on a blog that is populated largely by fans of another team, i.e., the Nats.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 1:20 PM

Amen, natsfan

Posted by: Kev29 | June 25, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey, redsoxnation, I want my money back! And the other 28 teams, too! ;-)

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

You're absolutely insane if you think there were only 10-15k Sox fans there. That means there were 30k Nats fans there, who just happen to never show up to any other series? What kind of logic is that? There were easily 30k Sox fans last night. Just watch replays of the place going nuts after the Ortiz HR.

Do you actually go to the games? You just look foolish writing this.

Posted by: JCizzle | June 25, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Just wondering -- why are Red Sox fans here anyway? The internet is full of Red Sox blogs where your gloating will be appreciated. I don't give a flying rats ass about "Youk", Big Papi or any other of your players. You're gloating because you have a team with a payroll well over $100 million beating a team that is 20 - 49. Good going.
You play the Nats two games and you know that the team is going to move, and that everyone else REALLY roots for another team anyway.

I think you all are proving our point about your obnoxiousness, and I hope that the Nationals management is monitoring this board so that it can see what the season ticket holders are putting up with this week. Keep talking.

Posted by: raymitten | June 25, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

As one who married an Irish lass from South Boston and lived in that "hell hole" for a few years, I can say with some authority that since 2004 being related to anyone with Boston roots when its comes to the Red Sox is now an unbearable situation. I'm most thankful that none of the "inlaws" which I now refer to as "outlaws" decided to invade my plantation to take in a few SAWK games at Nats Paak. I pissed my beau off royally by selling off my STH's for all three games. Its a decision I can live with!

Posted by: TippyCanoe | June 25, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

505, I take your point but I think that jca's fans of another team comment was meant to point out that the Sox fans shouldn't complain about derogatory comments made about their team on a blog that is populated largely by fans of another team, i.e., the Nats.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 1:20 PM
__________________________________________________________

1a,

Upon a second reading of his jca's post, I think you are correct.

My bad.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

That means there were 30k Nats fans there, who just happen to never show up to any other series? What kind of logic is that? There were easily 30k Sox fans last night.

Posted by: JCizzle | June 25, 2009 1:24 PM

Just because someone is at the game, doesn't mean they're necessarily cheering for one of the teams. Jesus, I saw about 5 guys in Phillies hats the other night.

I hate my city sometimes.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 25, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget that the Red Sox and 28 other teams allowed MLB to essentially empty the Expos' farm system in during the whole contraction debacle earlier this century. It's easy (and kind of fun) to pick on the Lerners but we've got a lot further to go than other teams to get better.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 1:17 PM
_____________________________________________________________

Valid point.

However, here's a question for the NJ:

How long can the Lerner's/fans use this excuse before it becomes not valid?

My opinion, we are at that point now. 3 years and we are awful and have made very little progress.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

So I see the SAUUUEUX fans are living up to their new title THE MOST OBNOXIOUS FANs in the WORLDDDDDD.

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"You're gloating because you have a team with a payroll well over $100 million beating a team that is 20 - 49. Good going."
Posted by: raymitten | June 25, 2009 1:26 PM

Naah, they're gloating because, unlike the hated Yankees, their ballclub won't be beaten twice by a team that is 20-49.

It's a Sawx-Yanks thing. Pity the poor Bahston fan, measuring his self-worth by what happens to the Bronx Bombers.

Posted by: MikeH0714 | June 25, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Just saw this little nugget in Boz' chat:

"Nats Season Ticket Holder,Washington, D.C.: The Nats packaged the Red Sox into a 'Grand Slam' forcing people to purchase 4 other games in order to purchase one of the Red Sox series. I already had 8 tickets and needed to pick up one more, but couldn't get past this requirement. My nephew went to the Red Sox website and picked up a $10 ticket with no strings attached. I'm a season ticket holder and they still were trying to get deeper into my pockets."

If this is true, I'm *very* unhappy. I don't mind if everyone is paying the extra freight, but if it's limited to the home team fans that's pretty bad.

Say it ain't so, Stan.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

My answer to you 505/203 would be the end of next year. It takes about 4 years to build a farm system back up and begin to see it bear big league fruit. I have to say I'm not overly hopeful that the Nats will be much better next year. It will take another several years to dig out of the position player hole that Bowden dug. My single greatest criticism of the Lerners was their loyalty to Bowden. He should have been fired immediately when they took over the team.

#4

Posted by: db423 | June 25, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

The Nats packaged the Red Sox into a 'Grand Slam' forcing people to purchase 4 other games in order to purchase one of the Red Sox series. I already had 8 tickets and needed to pick up one more, but couldn't get past this requirement.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 1:47 PM

This is a big time over-simplification. Individual tickets went on sale a couple weeks before the game. I got two without buying any package. The team's ticketing policy has actually been a strong point this season (2 for 1's, cutting prices, etc). They tried to fleece Sox fans with the packages - or attempted to get them to the Park to cheer for the Nats later in the season. Ticketing is the least of my concerns.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 25, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

The real point with the Lerners and the Nats organization is not that they don't spend money like the Yankees. Spending money is no guarantee of success; anybody remember the late '90s Orioles? The problem is broader than that: The entire organization is run poorly. You don't need to look further than Steinberg's 'Nats fail' series to see that (uniforms, bobblehead, clock, Smiley, etc.). The Nationals have all the hallmarks of a poorly managed organization: dispirited employees, layers of red tape, limp advertising and PR, and most importantly, unhappy customers. The idea that flinging millions at every two-bit free agent is going to fix all that is nuts.

The bottom line is that spelling the name of the team wrong on the jersey perfectly captures what's wrong in Nats town.

Posted by: tryks | June 25, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Kev29. I feel much better.

I actually never bothered to look since I already had more games than I could afford and didn't mind watching the Sox on TV :)

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"My nephew went to the Red Sox website and picked up a $10 ticket with no strings attached."

If someone went to the Red Sox website to buy a ticket to one of these Red Sox-Nats games, he would be directed to the tickets.com site to get the ticket. The same tickets.com site that this complaining season ticket holder would have been directed to if he'd gone to nationals.com and tried to buy his $10 ticket there. No doubt this guy never tried that, he just started complaining about how badly Stan is mistreating the fanbase. Now Boswell is picking up on this guy's bogus complaint and giving it wider credence.

Boswell's column, where legends are born. First the legend of the $6 beer, now the legend of Red Sox fans being allowed to buy tickets while Nats fans couldn't. Any volunteers to bombard Boswell next chat with claims that the world is flat, to see how soon he starts spouting that line?

Oh right. He's a columnist, not a reporter. The truth is only a secondary concern to him.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 25, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Some of the people here seem to have found some of the Red Sox fans obnoxious. OK. How were the Sox fans received in Philly? I hear they're very open to that sort of thing up there. Just wondering.

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 25, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't that be garlic? Silver is for werewolves, right?

Which might be more apt. How many of these folks are werefans, only transforming into Sox fanatics when the team wins the World Series?

Anyway, is it tomorrow yet?

-----

I understand for SAUUUUEUX fans it's like silver to a vampire

Posted by: JohninMpls | June 25, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I sit by raymitten and can't agree more with all he's said about the % of Boston fans and their behavior. For my personal take, here's an earlier post:

I can't remember the sequence of events but it was either just before or just after the top of the 8th debacle that the Nats took up the entire big screen to flash the attendance number and tell everyone/celebrate that it was a record crowd. I never leave games early but almost did then. How could the Nats decide to essentially congratulate all the Boston fans for coming to the park? Honestly, I was at opening day last year when the park opened and it actually seemed more full - couldn't some creative soul actually counted people in the ballpark instead of the sales? All those Boston fans are going to be here regardless and didn't need anything else to cheer for. I've bought four tickets to every game the Nats have played in Washington DC and it was like a slap in the face to me. Sure... a fact is a fact and the fact may have been that it was a record crowd. But did the Lerners (or Stan for that matter) ever play sports at all??? We needed those Boston fans to shut up and sit down - not turn to me and say "Look what we did". It's about competition - it's about having some ego that you can actually win a game. Boston is a really, really good team this year and we needed to play perfect ball and catch a couple of breaks.

The top of the 8th was like a punch in the mouth to me and watching Boston people around me pile it on really is still tough to deal with. Maybe our management team wants to win but do they really know how to fight or do they really just know how to make money?

Posted by: natslifer | June 25, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

While having the pleasure to sit in "Sawx Hell" sec. 306 last night, there were two things that I wondered....

Has Zim or NJ ever told the front office that by pandering to out-of-town fans it makes it seem that the Nats actually seem to play les than 81 home games a season? I mean between the Red Sox, Phillies and Mets Kasten is actually telling fans of those teams to come to DC and watch your favorites beat the stuffings out of the team I own. If you subtract the 21 "home" games those teams play in the nation's capital this year it's like the Nats really only have 60 "real" home games. I don't count the Orioles series because a lot of those fans are indigenous to the region.

Also, why isn't this team courting its own fans by moving faster to put a representative team on the field? I'm somewhat willing to write off this year - as I did last year - because more than $20 million is coming off the payroll by the end of the season. If the team doesn't resolve its outfield logjam, find an honest-to-God center fielder, get rid of the dead wood on the roster and improve the bullpen I'm going to be one unhappy fan whose presence won't be as often in NatsTown. I've said it before but I want a team worthy of its radio broadcasters in 2010.

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 25, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

i love the (non-boston native) red sox bandwagon fan who thinks they are the anti-yankees.

no, red sox are Yankees Lite. pepsi and coke. the team you root for when you're actually clueless about baseball and don't want to invest energy or emotion into a team that might not win it all.

Posted by: malcolmyoung1 | June 25, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

"I've said it before but I want a team worthy of its radio broadcasters in 2010."

You're my kind of people, too.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

NatsNut

thanx for the "get off my lawn" outrage this morning about the looting and pillaging of natstown by fans of visiting teams at kasten's invitation. it helped get my question answered in grandpa boz' weekly chat.

Posted by: surly_w | June 25, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I've said it before but I want a team worthy of its radio broadcasters in 2010.

Posted by: leetee1955 |

BRAVO BRAVO yes the best thing about the last 5 years Charlie and then Dave on the air.

Our own Red and Vin.

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

With the commuting nightmares going on at the moment - I'm going to be in my car most of the night. Charlie and Dave almost make me look forward to it.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 25, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

"I've said it before but I want a team worthy of its radio broadcasters in 2010."

Be careful what you wish for. I believe, and if I'm mistaken please forgive me, that Charlie Slowes' contract is up after 2010. I sure as heck hope that the Lerners do all that they can to ink him and Dave to a looooong extension and soon. Heaven forbid Charlie and Dave are gone after next year. Can you imagine the dregs of the broadcasters the Lerners might bring in to save a couple of bucks if they don't re-sign our beloved duo?

Posted by: erocks33 | June 25, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Boy, this complaining about other fans is tedious. Can't we argue about the Post's coverage or how cheap the Lerners are or something?

Posted by: Section506 | June 25, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Chico please send a message to Boswell for me.

Beers are more than $6.00, and ask him to save that Monday game ticket stub (with the 10,000 Red Sox fans) - BECAUSE THERE WASN'T A GAME!

"Boswell, who attended the game on Monday night, was willing to guess as little as 10,000." See above column.

I see that the losing environment is even turning into our beat reporters fabricating information.

Posted by: NatsguySR | June 25, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"B is for Bandwagon." Seriously? Is that the best you haters can do? Chants of 1918 and Bucky Dent? Wow! The people of DC are certainly a stupid, in-bred bunch. No wonder our country is in the crapper. Go SOX!!!!

Posted by: jewel08 | June 25, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

505203 - my point was to those here who have the AL team as their first choice, thus the intro to "my fellow travelers" and the 1967 story. I must have been too indirect if you thought I was suggesting more than an isolated few here have #1 teams other than the Nats. Some Red Sox posters seemed to take offense at the ribbing, but they should not expect neutrality. Sorry if that was not clear.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 25, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

God, is it Friday yet? Even being in Baltimore is better than another night of "Sawx Hell."

Posted by: leetee1955 | June 25, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

no jca, my apologies for my dumbassary.

1a, as usual, got me on the right track.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Nice work up top there Brue!

----------------------------

... a couple of years ago someone suggested doing entirely different cheers, and I wish the stadium announcement system would encourage this -in particular someone suggested "go go Nats go go" which I liked a lot, and have not heard elsewhere.

Posted by: Traveler8 | June 25, 2009 9:05 AM

----------------------------

A request for new cheers! Music to my ears.

General purpose cheer: "NatioNALS, NatioNALS, NatioNALS..."
A la "Eng-er-LAND Eng-er-LAND Eng-er-LAND..." or "'ere we GO, 'ere we GO, 'ere we GO..."

Also useful for "Zimmerman", "Adam Dunn", "Double Play", etc.

Player Cheers:
1 - To sing when Ryan Zimmerman does just about anything: "Hats Off For Ryan"

Hats Off For Ryan
And the home runs he sends flyin
And the teams he sends home cryin
Won't you tip your tam
For Zimmerman
Hats Off For Ryan

(Listen at http://tinyurl.com/l8w9r5)

2 - To sing when Colome strikes someone out: "Jesus K's You" (to the tune "Jesus Loves You")

Jesus K's you, this I know
For the umpire told me so
Called strike three now you are gone
Sit back down where you belong
Yes, Jesus K's you
Yes, Jesus K's you
Yes, Jesus K's you
The umpire told me so

This also lends itself to the short form:

"Jesus K's You! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)"

Posted by: nationalsanthems | June 25, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Stay classy, jewel08.

Posted by: diogenes_quixote | June 25, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Thanks jewel08 for yet another cowardly Sox fan doing a "drive by" on a Nats blog.

Classy.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

nationalanthems,

Do you have one for Colome during one of his long, agonizing innings that take 30 minutes to get through?

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Chico - feed us! We are getting cranky.

About tonight's game - Curious about the line ups. Sox would be due to rest Youkilis and go with Lowell / Ortiz on the corners in their normal NL rotation against a righty. Also, it might be time for a Lugo start, even though Nick Green's been terrific. That'd be a pretty weak defensive infield, though. I don't know what Smoltz will have. He's been hit a bit in his last 2 rehab starts. Globe says he's throwing 91/92.

I liked the Nats outfield defensively last night with Dunn out. Not a Dunn hater, but Willingham has looked good on balls hit over his head the past few nights. more than likely, it'll be dunn - harris - dukes. NJ plays unless he has something lingering from his stop in the 8th.

Posted by: jca-CrystalCity | June 25, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

WHAT have I been saying dah such a classy bunch.

Posted by: CBinDC | June 25, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Found this on the MASN site (watch me get new-posted):

Red Sox

2B Dustin Pedroia
RF J.D. Drew
LF Jason Bay
1B David Ortiz
3B Mike Lowell
C Jason Varitek
CF Jacoby Ellsbury
SS Nick Green
P John Smoltz

Nationals

SS Cristian Guzman
1B Nick Johnson
3B Ryan Zimmerman
LF Adam Dunn
RF Josh Willingham
C Josh Bard
CF Willie Harris
2B Anderson Hernandez
P Jordan Zimmermann

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Dang it! (new post)

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I've got to someday finish the lyrics that popped into my head a couple of years ago. I don't have any verses, just this adaptation of the chorus of a song written by another Zimmerman (who uses the name Dylan now) called "Quinn the Eskimo"

When Zimm the National hits one
Everybody's gonna jump for joy.
Go on, get out (did you see it!)
Go on, get out (where he hit it!)
You've not seen nothing like
the mighty Zimm

Posted by: greggwiggins | June 25, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

"B is for Bandwagon." Seriously? Is that the best you haters can do? Chants of 1918 and Bucky Dent? Wow! The people of DC are certainly a stupid, in-bred bunch. No wonder our country is in the crapper. Go SOX!!!!"

You think we made those shirts? laughable. You're a real tough one. You can insult people on the internet. Isn't this coming from the same state that keeps re electing Barney Frank. Yeah us in DC are the stupid ones.

Posted by: JDB1 | June 25, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

JDB1,

You forgot Ted Kennedy.

Posted by: Section505203 | June 25, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

"Admit it was funny that Kotsay got a Youk chant (I missed the substitution too)"

That might hold water if Youk was playing first base last night, but a man of a completely different skin tone was.

Posted by: JDB1 | June 25, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Dear Nats fans,

I have read your comments about the number of Red Sox fans at Nats games with interest and some dismay. While I am sure some (perhaps many) of these fans are “bandwagon” people, many others like me are lifelong supporters of the Sox, and we hope that the Nats will build a fan base as strong and loyal in the future. For us, the Sox are all about family, explaining why we rooted for them when they weren’t winning, in my case about 44 years.

My dad, a career Navy man who moved our family a lot, got me started rooting for the Sox in the late 50’s when we were living at home in Rhode Island. Following the Sox then was something people did on the radio with occasional Saturday game on television. I asked for a transistor radio for my 12th birthday so I could listen to the Sox, not to Elvis. When we moved to the DC area in 1961, he somehow pulled together enough money to buy two box seats at old Griffith Stadium for a Senators/Sox game. He need not have spent the extra money for the good seats. A late September game that meant nothing to either team, the contest attracted about 5000 people, but it meant the world to me: my dad, me, and a baseball game, something shared between the two of us.

Years later, when he was going through radiation and chemotherapy, we sat and watched every game we could together. No matter what had happened during the day, the game made the day better, win or lose. He died in 2000, never having seen a championship team. When the Sox finally won it all in 2004 and 2007, I brought souvenir balls to the cemetery for him. Many other Sox fans did the same, trying to make their families part of the celebration.

If you want to fill your stadium now and build for the future, make the Nats be about family. Bring your kids and grandkids to a game. Teach them to read a box score. Make popcorn and watch the game on TV together at home. Get them reading about Jackie Robinson and baseball’s other heroes. Will that help your team win? Who knows, but I can tell you from long experience, that your team, even when it is losing, can enrich your family’s life and the winning, when it comes, will be all the sweeter.

MDSOXFANLC

Posted by: MDSOXFANLC | June 25, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Nice post, MDSoxFan. Thanks for sharing it.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | June 25, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

There is a fine line between fans following, cheering for their team and being obnoxious.

Only in D.C.......The guy sitting behind me was still whining about Pittsburgh winning the Stanley Cup...

Yo! Zippy....its a BASEBALL GAME!

Posted by: caphcky | June 25, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Ask the average modern green or pink hat wearing Red Sox fan to quickly name a starting pitcher from the 1986 team not named Roger Clemens and watch them stammer like an idiot. To really stump them, ask them who won the 75 AL MVP and Rookie of the Year for the Sox. It is great, no frickin' clue.

60% of Red Sox fans became die-haahds after 2004.

Posted by: ruter23 | June 25, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

10,000? Boswell is a dope....there were 10,000 sox fans in one metro car alone last night

Posted by: nattylite88 | June 25, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Of course there were more sux fan. All those morons move down here from taxachusetts to find a better life.

Stop moving here stay up there nobody wants you here. I hate the red sux more than the yanks. At least NYC is a cool city.

Posted by: willyr65 | June 25, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Boz is losing it!!! The Nats and Redsox, if you dont look close, have the same red t-shirts etc... If the Nats fans outnumbered the sox fans, then why are they not showing up daily....Not everyone in the NL is not worth seeing. You have had your two best highest attendance records the last two days.. it is not a coincidence and it is not because the Nats fans..... after tonight, we'll see it go back to how many Nats fans have been in the stands... about 15K (their ave home attendance)

Posted by: rvanags | June 25, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

10-15,000. You guys are nuts. The Nats are lucky to get 20K on a weekend. I'm glad you guys don't do the Census!

Posted by: Favman | June 25, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

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