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Game 53 discussion thread: Nationals at Astros

How did I forget this after 52 straight games? Anyway, sorry for the delay, but here's the discussion post. And the talk is sure to be sour -- the Nationals have already fallen behind, 3-0, after one inning. Craig Stammen did his best Jason Marquis impression for a while, allowing the first five runners ro reach base. He settled and retired the last three batters he tried to retire. (Pedro Feliz was intentionally walked, which tells you something about Kevin Cash's offensive prowess.)

There was some action in the bullpen, which continued a rough trend for Stammen. In the first inning this year even before today's debacle, opponents had hit .400 with an .864 OPS. Can the Nationals recover against Brett Myers? Talk about the rest of the game right here.

By Adam Kilgore  |  June 1, 2010; 8:36 PM ET
 
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Next: Against the worst, Nationals need to be at their best

Comments

This can't go on. Don't know how Stammen can go to the BP if this is his MO for opening an appearance.

Posted by: Natmeister | June 1, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

I hope the bats are ready to go a-hellin' like yesterday because it looks like we'll need it.

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Dunn doing his best Pedro Cerrano imitation.. whiffin on the breaking ball.

Posted by: visionof75 | June 1, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Watching via MLB gamecast tonight...looks like were working with two completely different strike zones. Can anyone verify what it looks like on the TV?

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 1, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Stammen has developed 'Garrett Mock' syndrome - He's overthrowing & can't find the strikezone with anything. I've been a supporter for Craig staying with the big club, but this smells like his next stop is SYR when either Strasburg comes up, or if Olsen comes back from his shoulder problem quickly.

Posted by: BinM | June 1, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Riggleman will pull another switch Dunn 5th and move Jwill behind Zimm yeah i know Dunn had a good game yesterday but the Astro's bullpen is putrid and in my mind it takes pressure off Dunn, it was a great oppourtunity with the bases loaded and Dunn whiffed again. Craig Stammen is making it easy for Riggleman to take him out of the rotation with another sorry performance.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 1, 2010 9:22 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you on Dunn. With his relatively high strike out percentage he would be better in the 5th position.

Posted by: gnatman | June 1, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Houston reminds me of a certain team from last year.

Posted by: amorris525 | June 1, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Back to square one. And even though Stammen has settled down some I expect he's on a short leash.

Posted by: marathoner | June 1, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

**sound of leash getting tighter**

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | June 1, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Stammen owes the batters dinner...

Posted by: swang30 | June 1, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Stammen is leaving steaming piles on the mound and at the plate. How can you try to bunt curveballs in the dirt? At least the Astros are returning the favor and working on their own dung hill. It's the duel of the dung beetles!

Posted by: Natmeister | June 1, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

wait, Stammen is determined to lose this. Sigh...

Posted by: swang30 | June 1, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Stammen will love upstate New York in June... its beautiful up there.

Posted by: mastroj | June 1, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Stammen is doing his best Justin Maxwell imitation.

Get a starting job and then self-destruct over and over again.

Posted by: GoingGoingGone | June 1, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Going, going, gone may be a good description of Stammen.

Posted by: marathoner | June 1, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

And the book is closed on yet another Stammen Steamer.

Posted by: mastroj | June 1, 2010 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Bernadina is making me miss Kearns. Can we get him back.

Posted by: CountDemoney | June 1, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Kearns is doing pretty well for Manny Acta this year...

Posted by: swang30 | June 1, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Craig Stammen, thanks for making what previously might have been a difficult decision for Riggs pretty easy. "See . . . you . . . later."

Also, Houston thanks for continuously reminding everyone why you have the stupidest ballpark in the Major Leagues.

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 1, 2010 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Well, Storen sure hasn't impressed and is very lucky so far this year that the damage hasn't been worse. Every time he is on the mound he overthrows, and batter I think are beginning to figure him out - just be more patient and you can get to him. He will have to adjust or go back to AAA and get some more work - I'm serious.

Posted by: bendersx6 | June 1, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Stammen. There's some kind of disconnect. He's a linebacker trying to pitch. If he just stayed on top of the ball and kept it DOWN LIKE KNIGHT SAYS>

His fastball is good enough, but he has no idea what he's doing with it - he throws it after he gets behind with breaking balls. Which he's delivering high in the zone with has fastball anyway.

Posted by: Brue | June 1, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Can't say we didn't have opportunities to put more runs on the board.

We shouldn't be losing to teams like this

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Well looks like Riggleman's guy Guzman choked big-time with bases loaded.

Posted by: periculum | June 1, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be sending Stammen off so quickly ... tis the season and the right time to make a trade.

Posted by: periculum | June 1, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

This is all on Stammen. Nothing more discouraging for an offense than starting the game down 3 runs and then scratching back to a tie game, only to see your pitcher immediately untie the game. Stammen should have pitching like this was his own personal playoff game. Adios, Craig.

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 1, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Well, its hard to blame Stammen for another very anemic batting performance. Makes yesterday look like a fluke.

Posted by: gnatman | June 1, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Very easy to blame Stammen. We've scored 5 runs--3 of which made up for what Stammen did before the first Nats batter came to the plate. 5 runs should be more than enough against the Astros. ALL ON STAMMEN. Not a close call.

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 1, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Why is Zimm not even in the top 5 for all star 3rd base? To me he's the best in the league this year.

Where are you Nats fans?! i just voted for him 25 times. When the game gets frustating, like this one, go to the nats site and vote for him. Maybe Pudge and Josh too?

Posted by: JLNash819 | June 1, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

I think it's safe to say 14 was a fluke. But even though we have had help we have gotten 5 tonight which will win a lot of games. I think it's on Stammen though he didn't give up the runs before any Nats batted. On the road Nats were up first.

Posted by: marathoner | June 1, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone have a better eye than Adam Dunn?

Posted by: Kev29 | June 1, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Please Mr. Hammer

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Come on steal this game. The astros are doing everything in their power to lose.

Posted by: amorris525 | June 1, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Please Mr. Desmond

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

DESI!!

Posted by: Kev29 | June 1, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Let's go! Clutch hitting!

Posted by: amorris525 | June 1, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Wooohooo! Rooks gettin' it done! Sweet!

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 1, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Keeping track on game day and have to agree that the Ass-tros are looking like the Nats of 08-09... Nice job desi!

Posted by: mo_dc | June 1, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

And Rodge!

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Would love one more hit that gets two home.

Posted by: marathoner | June 1, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Exciting comeback! Is Desmond our only .300 hitter with RISP? Anyway, he's a good influence batting 6. Amazing that even Bernie could hit the Astro's closer. I feel kind of sorry for them.

Posted by: JLNash819 | June 1, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Damn you, marathoner, and your technicalities. I think the point about Stammen remains, though. This could be the perfect day. Nats win in the 9th. Capps gets another save. And Rigg's decision re the rotation gets easier. Great to be on the other side of these kind of games in 2010.

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 1, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Aaaargh! So many missed opportunities! Couldve had way more there given the ninth on a platter. Let's close it out and steal this one!

Posted by: mo_dc | June 1, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Time for Capps to bring this one home. Great finish to go with Svrulga's great piece on the 2005 Nats.

Posted by: Section222 | June 1, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Zim, I love ya, but like my high school coach always said:

EYES DOWN

HEAD DOWN

GLOVE DOWN

BUTT DOWN

C'mon, Zim, you're better than that.

Posted by: SilverSpring8 | June 1, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

I will say this is killing me to not be able to watch the past few innings. GameDay doesn't do the past two innings justice!

Dying to see the mad capper close it out. How did Zimmerman error?

Posted by: mo_dc | June 1, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

UUUGHHHHHH!

Posted by: Naugatuck-Nats | June 1, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Comedy of errors! Although Ryan's error wasn't that funny, So many missed opportunities, fielding, hitting, scoring. Both teams are trying so hard to give the game away!

Posted by: JLNash819 | June 1, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Now that doesn't make any sense on gameday... Guy doubles but guy on second stops at third? What in the h happened?

Posted by: mo_dc | June 1, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

GOOOOOOOOOOOZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!

Posted by: SilverSpring8 | June 1, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

I guess I'm sounding like a contrarian today but I was hoping Riggleman would put Clippard in. Capps has not been very sharply lately and Clippard has a high strike-out ratio.

Posted by: gnatman | June 1, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Gutsy choice by Guzman. Finish this off Capps!

Posted by: EnricoPolatzo | June 1, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

He had to wait and see if it was caught at the wall and willingham did a great job to catch it off the wall and fire it immediately into the infield

Posted by: amorris525 | June 1, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Capps is the closer...he's not going to randomly put Clippard in unless Capps is unavailable.

Posted by: amorris525 | June 1, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Mo, Zimm had plenty of time to get in front of a routine grounder to his left, I think i was. But he didn't and the ball got by him.

Posted by: JLNash819 | June 1, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

That was strike three. No doubt.

Posted by: EnricoPolatzo | June 1, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Dang.

Posted by: SilverSpring8 | June 1, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Ouch.

Posted by: Section222 | June 1, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Capps returning to last year's form against the Astros?

Posted by: periculum | June 1, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Bill Hohn should be sacked. Between what he did yesterday and the very obvious missed call on what should have been strike three to end the game, he is an awful umpire.

Posted by: zaph | June 1, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

That's a tough one. Poor play by Zimm led to the rally, poor check swing call (scared because a former Astro/now discipline VP scolded him), then a professional piece of hitting by Berkman.

Ugh, oh well, let's go get em tomorrow.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 1, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Plenty of chances, but just not a well played game. Go get them tomorrow.

Posted by: marathoner | June 1, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Well, amorris, sometimes its worth it to think outside the box.

Posted by: gnatman | June 1, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Mo, you gotta get video on your computer for a game like this. The I'm sure you didn't see the final 'checked' swing either. So many tough breaks. Nats should have won this. Crushing.

Posted by: JLNash819 | June 1, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

That was Bill Hohn's makeup call for last night.

Posted by: Juan-John | June 1, 2010 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely pathetic, losing to a team that did everything in its power to hand them the game. Zimmerman got lazy, and Capps has been looking more and more like the closer Pittsburgh let go. If he doesn't have confidence in his fastball he's useless. If they can't win games like this, there's no way they'll play .500 ball. This reminded me of the suspended game with the Astros last year, which was the most poorly played game I've ever witnessed. Hopefully Rodriguez and Moehler keep pitching like they have the past several games. We need to get home at .500, because the Reds are going to be tough.

Posted by: p-man | June 1, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

So did zimms error cost this one? Bad call on strike 3? That wouldve been a good steal of a w. Thanks to all for updating me. I am 1/4 mile from Fenway, seeing the lights from my window but couldnt get Charlie and Dave on MLB and That was a weird last few innings!

Posted by: mo_dc | June 1, 2010 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Well, we should not have had to steal this game and rely upon the umpires' competence. Let's go get 'em tomorrow with a real effort by our starter.

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 1, 2010 11:35 PM | Report abuse

If Riggs doesn't get tossed while exchanging lineup cards tomorrow, he is a bigger puss than Acta. Well, that's probably not possible, but that was awful. Maybe they can add that call to his "stern talking" that Hohn is supposed to be getting.

And oh yeah, please remove Zimms name from all gold glove talk. That O-lay bs belongs in JV ball.

Posted by: sollazo | June 1, 2010 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Zimm's error opens the floodgates, too non- chalant on that ground ball, he will learn a valuabe lesson; by not getting in front of the ball cost his team the game and Capps giving up a long hit to a batter with no reputation is inexcusable, another gut wrenching loss to a team that tried like hell to give us the game and we reverted back to last year,need to win the next two.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 1, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Hey Gang-some random thoughts....
I love the Silver Fox. Yea, I know...he can be a bit self-reverential.But the level of analysis and insight....I'm no Dibble hater-he's O.K....but MAN, Ray tells you how it IS-warts and all! Forgot how much insight a color man adds to a fans' understanding of the game
Desmond? He's a PLAYER!...And message to Roger-you're a rookie;no more exasperation after called third strikes...especially when they ARE strikes.Just seems like we're a LEEETLE bit too impressed with our mediocrity.
That said (and I've said it before)none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors...and this team-even on an off knight-just don't give in!
Now...I've been writing this as the last inning unfolded-we just lost.
I can't write any more incisive comments....I'm afraid I'll be far too bitter.....MAN, guys....we ain't the Rays...or Yankees....or.....I'm tired of hearing about 'we're gonna" and subtly acting like "we have"......how many errors lately? Yea, bad call on Berkman but......I'm crushed. Once more, the shallowness of my life is revealed by the seeming utter dependence of my happiness on whether we win or loose! And I had to work both nights that we scored big!(Last Knight and the Rox).......PLEASE Lord-take my house! My job!I'll even get married again (hey, 3 strikes is only 1 out, right?)Just let us play the way we are capable of playing for more than one dang game!
....See? There I go....O.K., gang....cheer me up or confirm my bitterness. (Dargreg?...or Kevin....Dove....Natsfan....506...ahhhh, 2 many of you all to mention...but I wanna hear from you all!)...SIGH
Go Nats!!!

Posted by: zendo | June 1, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Zimm's error opens the floodgates, too non- chalant on that ground ball, he will learn a valuabe lesson; by not getting in front of the ball cost his team the game and Capps giving up a long hit to a batter with no reputation is inexcusable, another gut wrenching loss to a team that tried like hell to give us the game and we reverted back to last year,need to win the next two.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 1, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Hohn doesn't need a 'stern talking to'. He needs to be shown the door. For that matter, so does the home plate umpire who was calling balls on Capps that were strikes when the Nats were batting.

Obviously the Nats failed to take advantage of the Astros mistakes and made a costly error in the 9th, but the umps definitely share part of the blame for this loss.

Posted by: zaph | June 1, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

We didn't deserve to win this and it all started with Stammen stinking the place up.

You can't give up 15 hits and expect to win - even to a bad team like the Astro's.

The only positive I take from today is that at least for now, the 1-2 batter switch experiment still seems to be working.

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Hey Zendo,

I'm new to this list but thanks for giving us something to laugh about. No question the Nats are a work in progress, but they have certainly made an incredible turnaround this year. And they could be 5 or more games over .500 given how many close games they have lost.

Posted by: gnatman | June 1, 2010 11:43 PM | Report abuse

While the Nats did plenty to lose this one, and thats going to happen, Hahn indeed needs a vacation and a visit to the eye doctor for missing that check swing strike, or maybe he just doesn't have the, well...you know, to make the call.

Posted by: cokedispatch | June 1, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Taking a deep breathe, games like this are why we are baseball fans.

Yeah, the 'Stros tried to give the Nats the win, but they got beat by a quality player. I don't think he swung at that second-to-last pitch, honestly.

The Nats had far too many chances they didn't cash. It shouldn't have been a one-run game for Capps.

And please, Zim plays ball off to side all the time and catches 99 out of 100. If you want to tell a gold glover how to play, I'm not listening.

Posted by: nats24 | June 1, 2010 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, and thanks for the laughs here too zendo

Posted by: CAskinhead | June 1, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

I think the stupidity of Minute Maid Park had more to do with tonight than the umpires--two key fly balls by the Astros would have been a can of corn in any normal ballpark. Playing here is like the minature golf version of baseball. Be that as it may, though, I'm looking forward to going forward with our going-forward staff and taking care of business, now that the crucible of our schedule is behind us.

Posted by: thelonghaul | June 1, 2010 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for my double post, ZENDO!! hang in there, a bunch of us have shallow lives brutha, but you hit on some strong points maybe Riggs needs to have a come to Walter Johnson meeting with the whole team, they battle from behind and then turn right around and hand the game back, yeah they should have had more runs in the ninth but that's why i love baseball because there's a game tommorow, and yes Berkman did break the plane for strike three and does that ump that blew that call remind anyone of Bartman that ruined the Cubs-Marlin playoff game by catching the foul pop think about it,okay folks see you tommorow.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 2, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Hey Gang-I swear this is it for the night...but I'm reading a truly good to great book-a new one on Henry Aaron. I'm not sure how I'm gonna tie it in to this post but....given all the extraordinary difficulties he-and others- went through....I dunno, maybe I'm just old. But I do get a tad irked by what I perceive as a lack of respect for the game from younger players in general.Ike Davis of the Mets throwing down his bat over a call he disagreed with a strike call.Earn yer stripes, young'uns...(here me Roger B?).And I'm talking the GAME, not all the enormous other burdens that Henry and others had to deal with.....at least in terms of petulance, Ian seems to "get" it.Hey, we are phenomally better yhan the last few years....but from Nyjer(who I'm completely in the tank FOR) expressing annoyance with the switch (thanks , Guzzie, for your class in handling a far more difficult situation). to Rogers little displays to....well, it's just a sense of vague unease I have with...maybe making excuses for less than stellar play? Not BAD, mind you, but.....jeez, listen to me!Like I said earlier, I should just shut my yap after a loss like this..my bile will subside with a victory. Now I"M the one sounding petulant....g'night and
GO NATS!!!

Posted by: zendo | June 2, 2010 12:10 AM | Report abuse

I broke my toe a few years back on a loss like this. Believe me, it wasn't worth it. One runs saves are tough, much more so when there's an error

It's just not worth blaming the Umps. So maybe Berkman broke the plane. Half the time the Nats get the call, half the time, they don't. That's the way it is. The ball was not a strike, according pitch track, so that makes it totally subjective.

Let's win today's game. Go, Lannan!

Posted by: nats24 | June 2, 2010 12:22 AM | Report abuse

I see a lot of people throwing around the word, pathetic.

You know what is pathetic?

The fact that we run guys like Stammen and Atilano out there every 5 days. These are not Major League quality starters. These guys are not good pitchers. If you score 6 runs on the sorry Astros you SHOULD NOT LOSE.

I want the Nats to be good but it is hard considering our payroll is only $60 million. Until the Lerners double the payroll, they will always be an overachieving .500 club at best.

Give me Cliff Lee and I'll goto every game he and SS pitches.

Posted by: dominic10464 | June 2, 2010 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Zendo, I guess I'm classified as a Dibble hater, but I wanted to second your kudos to Ray Knight. What a joy to listen to a knowledgable color commentator who doesn't moan and grunt and root for the home team so hard that it's embarrassing. Can we just keep Ray where he is? Please!

Posted by: Section222 | June 2, 2010 12:37 AM | Report abuse

Really cool article by Svrluga looking back at the 10-game winning streak in 2005:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/01/AR2010060103578.html

Posted by: Juan-John | June 2, 2010 1:27 AM | Report abuse

How many options does Stammen have left? Shouldn't he be the one sent down to re-learn how to handle the first inning?

Posted by: Juan-John | June 2, 2010 1:28 AM | Report abuse

So Bruney got signed by the Brewers. Looks like we are off the hook for the rest of his contract.

Posted by: amorris525 | June 2, 2010 2:00 AM | Report abuse

1. Understandable that the Nats are steamed at the umps but no way they were gonna end the game on a close call on a check swing after tossing Oswalt the nite before.

2. Zim keeps that ball in front of him, even if he doesn't catch it, they probably win.

3. Great play by Willingham taking that ball right off the wall and keeping them ahead on the double.

4. I think Stammen just lost his job as of June 8.

Posted by: Meridian1 | June 2, 2010 6:27 AM | Report abuse

A number of things has to change. One of those things being that the Nats have to become a better fielding team.

Fielding is better than in years past, but leading MLB in errors is unacceptable.

Posted by: Vze2sr66 | June 2, 2010 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Vze, you're right. There's no gold glover on the Nats. Zimm is way too erratic.

As to Ray Kinght vs Rob Dibble, my general comment is that there are way too many pitchers who have been signed as "color" guys, throughout baseball. Pitchers by definition are raging egomaniacs who only see the game through their narrow lenses. Another bad "color" guy is Jim Palmer.

On the other hand, managers, catchers, et al, have all of the game in their sights. So, guys like Knight cover the field and know what the heck is going on. Another really good "color" guy was Buck Martinez.

THE classic book on pitchers and pitching is by Ring Lardner. Read "You Know Me, Al," and you'll get the picture, and it's very funny.

Posted by: JohnRDC | June 2, 2010 7:49 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully, better days are ahead with the pitching staff. We know SS will be good, we hope Wang will return, with Detwiler and JZ. IF they can all reach there potential, the 2nd half might be better than the first half, which by recent standards wasn't bad, now was it! GO NATS, GET HOTTTTTTTTT.

Posted by: cokedispatch | June 2, 2010 7:59 AM | Report abuse

"So Bruney got signed by the Brewers. Looks like we are off the hook for the rest of his contract."

No, the Nats would only be off the hook for what the Brewers are paying him, which is probably pro-rated major league minimum. The Nats still have to pay the rest.

Posted by: nunof1 | June 2, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

The morning after: Okay i'm good, didn't rehash that train wreck from last night to too much Riggs needs to switch Dunn and JWill in the lineup i think it will reap major benefits, a little worried about Capps second blown save to a light hitting team,but in Madd Capps defense both BS's came after error's, allright gang let's get dese chumps tonight and tommorow afternoon. GO NATS!!!!!!!

Posted by: dargregmag | June 2, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

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