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Adam Dunn still a National as trade deadline passes

Update, 4:03 p.m.: Dunn is a National as the trade deadline passes. More to come later.

"I think all along, we felt it was unlikely something like that would happen," Manager Jim Riggleman said, adding that the Nationals would have had to be "overwhelmed" to trade him.

Less than two hours before the trade deadline, Adam Dunn is in the Nationals lineup. That does not guarantee he'll still be a National be the end of the day -- the Nats whited-out Cristian Guzman's name yesterday. Still, it's worth noting. Here's the full order:

Nationals
1. Nyjer Morgan, CF
2. Adam Kennedy, 2B
3. Ryan Zimmerman, 3B
4. Adam Dunn, 1B
5. Josh Willingham, LF
6. Roger Bernadina, RF
7. Ivan Rodriguez, C
8. Ian Desmond, SS
9. Ross Detwiler, SP

Phillies
1. Jimmy Rollins, SS
2. Placido Polanco, 3B
3. Raul Ibanez, LF
4. Jayson Werth, CF
5. Cody Ransom, 1B
6. Domonic Brown, RF
7. Carlos Ruiz, C
8. Wilson Valdez, 2B
9. Joe Blanton, SP

By Adam Kilgore  |  July 31, 2010; 2:09 PM ET
Categories:  Adam Dunn  
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Next: The gamble the Nationals take with an unsigned, un-traded Adam Dunn

Comments

Hopefully an encouraging sign, but if I recall they fixed that problem for Guzman with a little wite-out earlier in the week...

Posted by: HenryStin | July 31, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Why is Guzman still on the Nats 25 Man Roster....See nationals.com.... Who is going to replace Guzman on the 25 Man Roster? Severino replaced Capps...

Posted by: Y2kob | July 31, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Awww, Dobbs won't be at third today? How sad.

Posted by: weetabixjihad | July 31, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

@y2kob: Lannan, or whoever is called up to pitch Sunday, will replace Goozie on the 25-man. Relax. Nationals.com is always--ALWAYS--about two moves behind the reality. StanK likes it that way.

Posted by: Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me | July 31, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Ha ^ -- I posted that in the earlier version of the post before the Guzman comment. Now I just look like I don't finish reading before I post!

Posted by: HenryStin | July 31, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

@wee....
Dobbs was barely at 3rd yesterday...

Posted by: -CN- | July 31, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Reposted, in defense of poor JimBo:

JimBo lost his job by signing toolsy players? No, he lost his joib by staying within the limits of the overly frugal budgets he was given. Rizzo seems a little safer, signing more dependable bargains, many on the downside of their careers. But both Rizzo and JimBo are stuck with signing mostly bargains within exceptionally small budgets, especially for a large market club.

If you are going to ding JimBo for Nick Logan and Brandon Watson (two minimum wage guys), also ding him for Soriano, Dunn, Hammer, Olsen, Kearns (who was hurt last year), Flores (who showed promise before he got hurt), Ryan Zimmerman, and Jordan Zimmermann, as well as the bargain basement guys who basically gave you what you paid them.

What if the GMs of the winning clubs like Philly, Twins Braves and Boston were given Nats' budgets? How well do you think those geniuses would do? Seriously...

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 2:34 PM |

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Uh oh - fox reports that the"nats are key players now."

Posted by: swanni | July 31, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Another one from Fox: "The Nationals are asking a high price for first baseman Adam Dunn because he is the most legit bat available and the Nationals aren't worried about keeping him because they aren't interested in re-signing him anyhow. With a lack of bats on the trade market, the Nationals feel that if they can get a steal in the deal, they have to move him."

"Aren't interested in re-signing him anyhow." Wow.

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

It would be a joke if Dunn doesn't sign with the Nats

Posted by: chiro1623 | July 31, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

And Jon Heyman on MLB TV, says the White Sox are still the leaders for Dunn, but the Nats want more than just Edwin Jackson, even though "they love Jackson."

So, they "love" Jackson but "aren't interested in re-signing" Dunn? Does that make any sense?

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

BTW, anyone else watching the MLB Network? Does Tracy Ringolsby really wear a cowboy hat while covering baseball games?

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

"Does Tracy Ringolsby really wear a cowboy hat while covering baseball games?"

Is she a hot babe?

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

So, they "love" Jackson but "aren't interested in re-signing" Dunn? Does that make any sense? Posted by: baltova1 |

Yes, it makes sense if they need to stay within small budgets. If this salary dump happens, the Nats need to apply for a AAA franchise.

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Ringolsby wears that hat when he does the Rockies' pre and post game shows (I live in their broadcast area).

He even wore it in Seattle when I lived there in the early 80's.

I think he's from Wyoming.

Posted by: rushfari | July 31, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I think Rizzo is busy arranging the Yunieski (Yunesky) Maya signing announcement. Starting pitching, that's his main priority.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Honestly,if these statements from the "experts" are true, and they easily could not be, then this franchise is sadly never going to compete for anything. They were willing to bid over $180 million for teixeira but won't even pay one third of that for Dunn? Unreal.

Posted by: amorris525 | July 31, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Buster Olney: "Heard this: The Nationals are still talking trade with several teams on Dunn, as we get closer to the deadline."

They're getting desperate now ... Kenny Williams must be peeing his pants over this. Watch him throw Beckham in with Jackson right at the deadline.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

@EdDC:
Sorry, but there is little defense for JimBo. Yes, he had a limited budget to work with, only because he was doing everything possible to keep his job, rather than trying to stand up for the Franchise.

While other GM's were working the phones, talking to their scouts & developing draft boards, JimBo was talking on the radio, riding his segway, making a mess in the D.R., and shooting craps on Half Street for all we know.

Posted by: BinM | July 31, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

BTW, anyone else watching the MLB Network? Does Tracy Ringolsby really wear a cowboy hat while covering baseball games?

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:16 PM |

Tracy Ringolsby? I thought that was Jim Ross the wrasslin' commentator!

Posted by: frenchyb | July 31, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

"They were willing to bid over $180 million for teixeira but won't even pay one third of that for Dunn? Unreal."

Its not the amount. I think they would gladly offer him in excess of 16 million to avoid arbitration. Its the time frame. Dunn at 34 may not be the Dunn of 30. Its about the extent of the contract not so much the amount. So, the "cheap Lerner's" line doesn't cut it in this particular case. I think the Lerners want the guy. But Rizzo doesn't want to commit to too many years and Dunn would be a 10-5 guy who would have to approve any trades.

Its a fine line for this team particularly since there is no guarantee they will even be competitive in the next 2 years ... it won't happen until they dramatically upgrade their top 3 slots in the starting rotation. One is done: Strasburg. They still need to get the other 2 filled with guys who are going to be able to pitch 180-200 innings. Maya may fill one. Zimmermann may fill one. Personally, I think they should pursue Cliff Lee and outbid everyone in the offseason if they truly do want to be competitive next year.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Jim Bowden lose his job by stealing money through his job?

That generally is bad for job security.

Posted by: 202character | July 31, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Dunn is one of the best sluggers in baseball. Edwin Jackson would be one of a couple handfuls of #4 starters.

Career WHIPs:

Stammen 1.36
Lannen 1.43
Marquis 1.43
JD Marin 1.41
Olsen 1.47
Livan 1.44
Atilano 1.50
Balester 1.51
Chico 1.56
Edwin Jackson 1.51

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

He even wore it in Seattle when I lived there in the early 80's.

I think he's from Wyoming.
Posted by: rushfari | July 31, 2010 3:23 PM
-------------------
Wyoming - Where men are men, and sheep are scared.

Posted by: BinM | July 31, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Dunn at 34 may not be the Dunn of 30. Its about the extent of the contract not so much the amount. So, the "cheap Lerner's" line doesn't cut it in this particular case. I think the Lerners want the guy. But Rizzo doesn't want to commit to too many years and Dunn would be a 10-5 guy who would have to approve any trades. Its a fine line for this team particularly since there is no guarantee they will even be competitive in the next 2 years ...
Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:34 PM |

This is the Lerner Syndrome.

Of course you don't want to sign the guy for four years when you have no guarantees. So you back off, and the fans understand that "it's business."

But that's the MLB for you. Sometimes you have to pay the market value to get a top player. And if the market value says four or more years, you either pay the guy or go back to your comfortable hole in last place.

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

@EdDC,

"JimBo lost his job by signing toolsy players? No, he lost his joib by staying within the limits of the overly frugal budgets he was given. Rizzo seems a little safer, signing more dependable bargains, many on the downside of their careers. But both Rizzo and JimBo are stuck with signing mostly bargains within exceptionally small budgets, especially for a large market club."

IMHO, Jim Bowden schmoozed the Lerners and marketed himself as a guy who could make big things happen with a small market budget as he had with the team in previous years and with Cincinnati. When he was told he would have to rebuild the farm system that had been depleted so that the team could draw mostly from that (apparently, the Lerners, not stupid by any means did listen extensively to outside expertise) he sold them on his ability to do that on the cheap.

No, there is no defense for Joy's JimBo. He did make a few good moves but those were too few and far in between. Most of the players he drafted have ended up as AAAA guys. Most improvement appears to have occurred in this area when they hired Rizzo to be his assistant GM.

Perhaps Hood makes it? But Smoker? Willems? Even Burgess?

There has been stark, dramatic improvement in the farm system after the last two drafts making JimBo look rather inept.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

BTW, you're hearing a lot of analysts say that the Nats could fall back on letting Dunn go and take the two compensation picks, as if that's a great move. They cite the drafting of Jordan Zimmermann and Josh Smoker as compensation for Soriano as an example.

Now, Zimmermann's great and I love him, but Smoker's in his fourth year in the minors and getting rocked in A ball. So the results are mixed but overall pretty good.

For example, in the same draft, the Rangers got Blake Beavan and Julio Borbon as compensation for Carlos Lee. Beavan looks pretty good but they traded him to the Mariners as part of the Cliff Lee trade. Borbon's in the bigs and looks good.

Same draft, the Rangers also got Michael Main and Neil Ramirez as compensation for Gary Mathews. Main's been mediocre in the minors, got up to AA and they traded him to the Giants for Benjie Molina. Ramirez is in his third year of A ball and has been mediocre.

Also in that draft, the A's got two picks for Barry Zito: Sean Doolittle and Grant Desme. Doolittle's looked very good in the minors but has had two surgeries on his patella tendon and hasn't gotten to the big leagues yet. Desme was off to a great start in the minors and then left to become a priest!

I think the results of settling for compensation picks is a lot more mixed than these experts are indicating.

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

@EdDC,

"But that's the MLB for you. Sometimes you have to pay the market value to get a top player. And if the market value says four or more years, you either pay the guy or go back to your comfortable hole in last place."

So, then, why didn't the Yankees, the Dodgers, the Rays, et al beat down Dunn's door before the Nats signed him at age 28? Because they saw a pretty damned good bat that couldn't field, that would age rapidly. That's the Yankees ... and they are cheap?

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Good grief, the 24/7 news monster is spewing uncontrollably. Lots and lots of airtime to fill with stuff that doesn't have to be verified. Just get 'em to watch. Why is anyone even listening to Bowden? The only job he could find is rumor monger.

Posted by: Natmeister | July 31, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

BinM:

If JimBo had not been too flashy of a guy, in your view, would he have gotten MLB-level budgets to work with?

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Tracy Ringolsby? I thought that was Jim Ross the wrasslin' commentator!

Posted by: frenchyb | July 31, 2010 3:31 PM

Hah! Excellent, frenchy, excellent...

Come to think of it, I think Ross would make a great play by play man. Put him in there with Dibble...

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Weren't the Nats offering Teixeira a contract until he was 36?

Posted by: amorris525 | July 31, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"If JimBo had not been too flashy of a guy, in your view, would he have gotten MLB-level budgets to work with?"

@EdDC,

My impression was that JimBo asked for the "cheap" low budget to work with. He was the brilliant genius that didn't need the high payroll to build champions. I contend that is how he marketed himself to the Lerners.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting tired of hearing the line "but what if Dunn slips in the fourth year of the contract?" First, what if he gives this team three more years like they've gotten so far and they add talent to the mix as they should? Wouldn't that make him a key player on a winning team?

Second, why would he automatically fall apart at 34? Look at the 10 guys Baseball-Reference.com lists as most similar to Dunn at the end of last year:
Darryl Strawberry
Jose Canseco
Rocky Colavito
Reggie Jackson
Harmon Killebrew
Sammy Sosa
Troy Glaus
Ralph Kiner
Barry Bonds
Boog Powell

I did a break out on this last week, but it's about a 50-50 split among these guys when it comes to being productive at the age of 34 (and in the case of guys like Sosa and Bonds there were, um, extenuating circumstances). But it's hardly a given he'll be on a major downside of his career at 34.

Third, if he did slip by then, but gave you three good years before that, is that really so awful? You'd sacrifice three good years to be smart four years from now? Really?

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of JimBo here is a twit announcement from 1 hour ago:

"Nats might be getting closer to Dunn deal.....stay tuned.....looking like Tigers are "out".....so has to be CWS or TB....my bet would be CWS"

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

@Baltova1,

I think all the guys you listed were far better fielders than one Adam Dunn. The Nats have only one worst fielding guy at first base and that is their top 1st base prospect Chris Marerro.

Needless to say I am hopeful that they skip over him and move on to Justin Bloxom. Or David Freitas ... anyone but ...

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

On the other hand, can anyone imagine being a Yankees fan?

"(Yawn) Well, trading deadline's here. Time to load up on expensive spare parts to fill out the roster. Let's see? Kearns, Berkman, Wood? Done. Think I'll go take another trip through the buffet line."

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

ESPN report says Dunn is staying.

Posted by: LeeM9308 | July 31, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Better fielders? First, Reggie, Boog, Killebrew, Canseco, Strawberry, better fielders? No way.

Second, who the @#$! cares that much about Dunn's fielding, especially when you have no one to replace him?

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

SIGN HIM!!!!!!

If any of you are going to the game tonight, start a standing ovation, please.

=1/2St.

Posted by: kevincostello | July 31, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

@ baltova1

Couldn't agree more and appreciated your breakdown last week. That's just it -- there are no guarantees in sports. I'll take three good years and gamble on the bad. You have to take calculated risks to be successful, and this one seems like an absolute no brainer...

As a smarter man than me once said...ya can't play scared...

Posted by: HenryStin | July 31, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Good idea, 1/2St.

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Man, this is disappointing. If Rizzo ends up taking the two compensatory picks over a 3/4 starter plus one or two prospects, this will go down as one terribly wasted chance to improve the club.

Posted by: amo36 | July 31, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

@Baltova1,

"Better fielders? First, Reggie, Boog, Killebrew, Canseco, Strawberry, better fielders? No way."

Having watched all of the above. Oh, yes, oh most definitely. Dunn really is that bad ... now Frank Howard? Yeah, he is only slightly worse. Mike Epstein? Rick Reichardt? He and they share a lot in common. lol

But you are right when it comes right down to it his WAR makes it vale la pena (worth the penance or suffering) for sure. Which of course is why Rizzo (as expected when all is said and done) didn't trade him.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

@amo36,

Rizzo is going to sign the guy. Dunn will not want to go through the whole FA deal where everyone is questioning his fielding ability whereas the Nats are willing to work with it.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

now that the hoopla is over, sign Dunn to a 3 year deal worth 45 million with a club option for a fourth year or a 2 mil. buyout.

Posted by: wrw0601 | July 31, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

wrw0601-

I hope you ar right, and I hope that the offer has been made already.

+1/2St.

Posted by: kevincostello | July 31, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Man, this is disappointing. If Rizzo ends up taking the two compensatory picks over a 3/4 starter plus one or two prospects, this will go down as one terribly wasted chance to improve the club.

Posted by: amo36 | July 31, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Agreed. if they could have gotten Hudson from the White Sox for Dunn and didn't, it was a mistake. There's no way they are resigning him, so you might as well get something for him.

Posted by: egoodman8 | July 31, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

peri, not worth the debate but I've watched all of those guys, too, and Dunn is not worse than Canseco or Strawberry in the field. Canseco let a ball bounce off his head for a homer, for God's sake.

But look at it this way: do you think the Phillies based their signing of Ryan Howard on his fielding?

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

@wrw - Those numbers are about what I was thinking. Not sure Dunn's camp would go for it tho.

Posted by: LeeM9308 | July 31, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

When Soriano wasn't traded, I was devastated. This is very different, because I actually expect the Nats to resign Dunn.

Keep in mind that there could be another deal that the Nats made that hasn't been announced yet.

+1/2St.

Posted by: kevincostello | July 31, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

periculum,
let's hope so.

Posted by: amo36 | July 31, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Here's a guy learning a new position, 1B, and doing well for half a season of experience. I admire and respect Dunn's fielding progress, and he will only get better. He seems like a quality guy to me in all respects. And a nice big target for Nats' IF to throw to (bigger than Adam Kennedy).

The drop-off at 34 talk is just a way of rationalizing cheap budgets. Sometimes you do have to pay the market value and build from there. You can't always go back to square one, or you never get anywhere. If you get stuck with a less than great fourth year, so what? But maybe he will just keep on going.

Rizzo can't be thinking comp picks. Probably he feels he can sign Dunn. Just a guess.

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

If JimBo had not been too flashy of a guy, in your view, would he have gotten MLB-level budgets to work with?
Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 3:46 PM |
--------------
No, he wouldn't have initially. The Lerner group didn't 'know' baseball coming in, and hung their hopes on Bowden's resume' from CIN, and wanted to play 'low-market', imo; He got an early ear in the F.O. from Mark Lerner, and led the team down an erratic path for three years, guided by what 'Plan' I have no concept of.
Rizzo seems to have at least taken a stand and said "Here is what it takes to develop a ML franchise", in terms of staffing & overall budget (although he may still be hamstrung financially).

If Bowden has a positive note on his epitath as GM here, it might be "At least he didn't gut the team". He never had the chance, because Omar Minaya (& MLB) had already taken care of that.

Posted by: BinM | July 31, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Just checking on Dunn's status before going to the game. Not gone yet, eh? I'm ready to start the ovation if they announce his signing...

Posted by: Section416akatheAlps | July 31, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Dunn only gets 15 mil a year and then only DH'ing in the AL. He said in his previous comments that he is willing to DH for two months to compete for a pennant, but not as a career change. Point is he gets 15 mil to DH or 12 mil to play the field (giants or braves). The nats offer him 14/15 mil a year to make him happy and his good friend Ryan Zimmerman. He accepts it b/c he wants to still play 1B and not ride the bench

Posted by: wrw0601 | July 31, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"But look at it this way: do you think the Phillies based their signing of Ryan Howard on his fielding?"

No, but he isn't the worst at the position. Clearly Pujols probably brought the most of both offense and defense. Not sure what the future holds for him.

Dunn, Frank "Hondo" Howard, and Boog Powell share a lot of similar attributes. I think Dunn is more like Powell hitting wise (better) and Dunn can hit some huge dingers like Howard but I have never seen anything like what Howard could do. I saw him hit a home run that was a screaming line drive straight as an arrow over the centerfield fence. He could massacre the ball. And Howard was older than Dunn is now. But he declined after age 33 and ended up a flop in Japan.

Its hard to know what will happen to Dunn-key? Howard wasn't the best at keeping himself in shape. Dunn I think needs to work out in the offseason with Zimmerman up in Frederick. That's what good friends do isn't it? And I do believe he needs it at this point.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Lineup in 2011

Morgan -CF
Espinosa -2B
Zimmerman- 3B
Dunn-1B
Willingham-LF
Desmond-SS
Rodriguez/Ramos-C
Morse-RF
Pitcher

Posted by: wrw0601 | July 31, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

@wrw- Morgan rather than Bernadina?

Posted by: LeeM9308 | July 31, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Here's a guy learning a new position, 1B, and doing well for half a season of experience. I admire and respect Dunn's fielding progress, and he will only get better. He seems like a quality guy to me in all respects. And a nice big target for Nats' IF to throw to (bigger than Adam Kennedy).

The drop-off at 34 talk is just a way of rationalizing cheap budgets. Sometimes you do have to pay the market value and build from there. You can't always go back to square one, or you never get anywhere. If you get stuck with a less than great fourth year, so what? But maybe he will just keep on going.

Rizzo can't be thinking comp picks. Probably he feels he can sign Dunn. Just a guess.

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

For what it's worth, I think Rizzo had a plan all along and the trade demands were due dilligence on his part (blow us away with an offer, or Dunn stays in DC).
By not signing Dunn to this point, Rizzo has kept his options open, just in case some team did come through with that irresistable offer. Since it apparently hasn't happened, I am guessing that Rizzo will go to Dunn's camp, let them know that this was the "business" side of baseball (Dunn himself acknowledged that) and a deal will be struck by the end of this week, if not sooner. I agree that 3 years at 15-16 million a year with a club option/buyout on the fourth year gets it done.

Posted by: TimDz | July 31, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I think they keep morgan for at least one more year and probably trade him next year.

on a side note, I know Willie Harris and Adam Kennedy are great clubhouse guys, but seriously you couldn't get at least a AA prospect for each?

Posted by: wrw0601 | July 31, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Change of topic. Jordan Zimmermann pitches tonight in Harrisburg. Hopefully, one step closer to coming back to the bigs..

Posted by: baltova1 | July 31, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"The drop-off at 34 talk is just a way of rationalizing cheap budgets. "

Watched it happen with Howard and Powell. Even the great Frank Robinson (and believe it he truly was great) dropped off. As did the great Eddie Murray.

It happens to the best of them ...

How do you keep it from not happening?
Don't do da meathook all you can eat buffet diabetes dance.

Jim Edmonds of the Brewers is a great example.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

@wrw - Morgan is way too erratic for my taste. Not fundamentally sound at all. Plus he's a Rizzo acquisition, another reason to hang onto him from the GM's POV. And he's no youngster any more. Guess you think they will factor that all in over a promising young OF in Bernadina?

Posted by: LeeM9308 | July 31, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

"Change of topic. Jordan Zimmermann pitches tonight in Harrisburg. Hopefully, one step closer to coming back to the bigs.."

Yunesky Maya announcement could happen anytime now ... that would make 3 with Zimmermann. If Detwiler and Olsen prove themselves ... there's your two lefties. You keep LIvan just in case one falters or gets injured again (with Olsen you almost have to expect it with what he has been through). And there you have a 2011 rotation with the potential to compete.

Still think the Lerners should open the wallet for one big signing of Cliff Lee. That would almost guarantee a Nats run for the playoffs in 2011.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Just took a second look at the Phils lineup for tonight. No Ryan Howard, Polanco back at 3rd.

Posted by: LeeM9308 | July 31, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Thank God!!! Adam Dunn is irreplaceable!

Posted by: RedCherokee | July 31, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I'd sign him for $62M over 4 years. He'll only be 34 in the last year, not that much risk.

Posted by: OutsideTheLaw | July 31, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

@peri - Can't remember whether you were one of the "Trade Dunn" guys or not. Good move by Rizzo? Couldn't hurt to explore the market I guess, right?

Posted by: LeeM9308 | July 31, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I for one am very pleased that Dunn will at least still be wearing a Nats uni for the remainder of the season. The guy loves being in DC and watching him blast homers makes watching games that much more enjoyable. If we don't sign him long term I wouldn't mind snagging a guy like Jordan Zimmerman again with one of the two picks we would get. Beating up Oswalt last night felt so good!

Posted by: bmmanion | July 31, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

@LeeM9308
I think Bernadina is a better future CF than Morgan, but not sure he's the real answer. Remember Rizzo kept searching for a true CF or a top line SP for Dunn. The Nats braintrust must not be completely sold on Bernandina. I think he plays above average defense and is streaky with the bat. Potential future starter, but for most clubs would be a 4th or 5th OF.

Posted by: wrw0601 | July 31, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

good

Posted by: lostdogrwd1011 | July 31, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"@peri - Can't remember whether you were one of the "Trade Dunn" guys or not. Good move by Rizzo? Couldn't hurt to explore the market I guess, right?"

If the Chisox had sent the players Rizzo wanted or the Rays had sent the players he wanted ... then yeah he would've pulled the trigger and most would have been happy with it in time.

I knew Rizzo would never get the value he wanted for a rental player. Now Olney et al are talking about what happens if they pass him through waivers in order to make a trade ...

Rizzo is going to sign Dunn. Dunn is going to sign because he isn't ready to DH full-time and he doesn't want to have to go through fielding all the questions about his fielding if he becomes an FA. His agent would likely try to convince him to do it I bet. With the Nationals Dunn knows he has a starting position on the field almost guaranteed. Marerro is decidedly worst than Dunn at first base ... and he doesn't appear to be getting any better. The guys after him are 2-3 years away.


Olney, Starke, and probably KW will all be trying to stir the pot.

Posted by: periculum | July 31, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Is there any truth to the rumor that the most interesting bid for Dunn came from the Redskins with Shanjhan offering cash and Haynesworth?

Posted by: TheOLeary | July 31, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Jim Bowden lose his job by stealing money through his job?

No, he didn't.

FWIW, Trib columnist in discussing why the Sox didn't close the deal (they offered Jackson plus their top catching prospect, we wanted Jackson plus their top third base prospect) predicts that Nats will take the draft picks.

Posted by: markfromark | July 31, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

on a side note, I know Willie Harris and Adam Kennedy are great clubhouse guys, but seriously you couldn't get at least a AA prospect for each?

I think if you're in contention, you already have utility players better than Harris and Kennedy.

Posted by: markfromark | July 31, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

"The drop-off at 34 talk is just a way of rationalizing cheap budgets. " Watched it happen with Howard and Powell. Even the great Frank Robinson (and believe it he truly was great) dropped off. As did the great Eddie Murray. It happens to the best of them ...How do you keep it from not happening? Jim Edmonds of the Brewers is a great example. Posted by: periculum |

Of course a drop-off could happen at age 34. Or it could not happen. I remember when the O's signed Brady Anderson at like 33 for maybe 5 years. That was stupid, as he soon ran out of gas (or PEDs). Signing Dunn is not stupid. He is a quality guy on a team that has trouble attracting quality.

My only point on this is that the team does not always get to call all the shots. Signing is a two-way deal. Dunn knows he can get 4 years on the open market. So the Nats will have to come up with 4. Naturally, you try for three. But if you don't get three, you might have to pay market rate for an excellent player, which means four. You don't just drop him altogether because the 4th year is too big of a risk. Boswell gave some good data awhile back on how sluggers perform well at 34, and he did not just use PED guys.

The Nats do not pay market rates for enough guys, which equals last place. That is a good habit to break. Let's start!

Posted by: EdDC | July 31, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

periculum: "There has been stark, dramatic improvement in the farm system after the last two drafts making JimBo look rather inept."
Exactly. Makes being patient a little easier. The Maya signing may turn out to be a coup.

Posted by: fpcsteve | July 31, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

question: Will Lee sign for above-market money and play on a team like the Nats that isn't guaranteed to compete for the playoffs/WS? Or does he take less money to play in NY, Boston, or Philly (i.e., make the playoffs)?

Posted by: fpcsteve | July 31, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse


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Posted by: monserrat001 | August 1, 2010 1:51 AM | Report abuse

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