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Game 120 discussion thread: Nationals at Braves

One last thing to get to as the game is starting: Nyjer Morgan is here today and will be activated tomorrow. Morgan had planned to play in a rehab game for Class A Hagerstown yesterday, but General Manager Mike Rizzo agreed with him that travel would be too much of a nuisance if he played.

Also, while the Braves traded for Derrek Lee today, the Nationals will not have to worry about him this series. He's unlikely to join them until Friday. The Nats won't be facing Troy Glaus, either, because the Braves put him on the 15-day disabled list.

The Nats will have to contend with Tim Hudson, who dominates them like Stephen Strasburg dominated the Norfolk Tides. In 16 career starts against the Nationals, Hudson is 10-1 with a 1.49 ERA. In three starts this season, he's 2-0 with a 1.25 ERA.

Livan Hernandez will try to match him. Talk about the game right here.

By Adam Kilgore  |  August 18, 2010; 7:10 PM ET
 
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Next: Livan Hernandez's unique season rolls on

Comments

Third inning. What, am I the only one watching the game...?

Posted by: gilbertbp | August 18, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Maybe people are just waiting for some action. Nice bit of hitting this inning. A little baserunning glitch though I'm sure Bernadina didn't anticipate the catcher moving up in front of the plate and conceding the run.

Posted by: marathoner | August 18, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Thought it was Dejavu all over again for a minute..runners onbase no one out....a nail biter this time????

Posted by: pentagon40 | August 18, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Morris should have been able to catch it....hung up there long enough..and he is running FORWARD.....Think he got spooked by Kennedy....no excuse though...

Posted by: pentagon40 | August 18, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Hey Gang-watchin' with a pal tonight, gil. Plus...it's just so freakin'....infuriating. Watching baserunning gaffes, gidp's, s.o's with 2 men on and 2 away.Jeez-even old codgers playing slow-pitch know how to make that play on the pop-up. Willie coulda had that deep fly as well. Guess my Pollyanna post on our bright future will once again be delayed.I'm steamed.
Embarrassing.
Go Nats.

Posted by: zendo | August 18, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

What zendo said. We should be winning by about 5-0.

Posted by: gilbertbp | August 18, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

See that throw from Bernie? As a RFer, his arm is average; as a CFer, above average. I'm sure Prado wasn't expecting that. I'll refrain from any invidious comparisons with Nyjer's arm.

Posted by: CapPeterson1 | August 18, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

That is unbelievable. Rediculous umpiring. Riggleman has to get thrown out here as well IMO. I would not leave the field until I was ejected if I was Rigs.

Posted by: amorris525 | August 18, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

That was horsebleep umpiring. Tie game, 8th inning, you don't throw out a player for that, especially a key player. Totally bush league umpiring.

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Another example of an umpire thinking he is part of the game instead of being in the backround as he should. Disgusting.

Posted by: SCNatsFan | August 18, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

This is where MLB has to step in, no way Zimm should have been run this is the height of stupidity by this umpire whoever this numbskull is he is a freakin idiot.

Posted by: dargregmag | August 18, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Umpiring FAIL...

Posted by: TimDz | August 18, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

So the next time Zim bats with this knuclehead behind the plate, he should say, "I'll act professionally if you do.'' If he gets ejected, perhaps it will be an appropriate end to an umpiring career.

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

What the heck was that?

Posted by: marathoner | August 18, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

That's at least the 4th time this season where an umpire has decided to make it all about himself during the game.

Posted by: phooter | August 18, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Umps need to get off their knees....
They're blowing the game.

Posted by: TimDz | August 18, 2010 9:26 PM | Report abuse

TimDz wins the thread.

Posted by: gilbertbp | August 18, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

So when is it OK to throw your bat down in disgust at an umpires call?
Is it OK if you're a star but not OK if you're a bench player? I don't get that double standard.
I'm not saying the ejection was warranted, but it does not seem as outrageous to me as it does to many of you.

And don't suggest it wasn't over strike 2. It most definitely was, and that was even more obvious when you could see Zimm cussing about how f'ing stupid the call was.

Posted by: Sunderland | August 18, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Poor Livo. The Nats did everything they could to make him a loser, yet he got out of it. I want to apologize again for saying in the spring he should not have been the Nats' rotation. I have never been more wrong (and given how many times I've been wrong, that's saying a lot.)

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Hey Gang-the only solace I can take is that, if I read The Rizz correctly, he's every bit as disgusted with our play as the Gang is. Got a feeling that the toleration for this kinda play will be largely gone next year.
That said-the umps are matching us for professionalism. I know ya gotta "earn" respect and our recent record doesn't warrant lots of it. Still...sure seems like we're on the short end of the stick on bad/missed calls an inordinate number of times this year. Sigh....like we don't have enough to deal with on our own, huh?
Go Nats.

Posted by: zendo | August 18, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Sunderland, I don't think Chipper Jones gets tossed for doing that...

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

If it makes any difference to you, Sunderland, the Braves TV guys both thought the ejection was totally unwarranted.

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

...and let's hope that's all we see of Billy Wagner tonight...

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse

@Sunderland:
How can you tell that he was disgusted at the umpires call?
How could the umpire tell? Zimmerman tossed his helmet down, but said nothing.

Like the late Jim Valvano said to a ref during a basketball game:

Jimmy V: "Can you toss me for what I'm thinking?"
Ref: "Jimmy, you KNOW I can't toss you for what you're thinking."
Jimmy V: : "Good. Because I think you SUCK."

Posted by: TimDz | August 18, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Fingers crossed for extra innings. Glad Desmond's throw didn't cost us.

Posted by: marathoner | August 18, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Sunderland: Just so you know neither Braves tv broadcaster thought the ejection was warranted,they thought the ump overreacted,just plain stupid.

Posted by: dargregmag | August 18, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Sunderland: Just so you know neither Braves tv broadcaster thought the ejection was warranted,they thought the ump overreacted,just plain stupid.

Posted by: dargregmag | August 18, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Tom Milone is absolutely dominating in Harrisburg. Goes 6.2 innings tonight with 1 run allowed, 13 ks and 0 bbs. Last 5 starts: 32.1 ip, 1.68 era, 46 ks, 1 bb. And Jason Marquis is pitching on Friday.

Posted by: dcsportsfan13 | August 18, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Clippard in with men on base. When I have I heard this before ...

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

@TimDz - Valvano's line, one of the best ever, for sure.

Did I see it wrong?
I saw him thrown his bat down, but whatever he threw, he was definitely saying "f'ing stupid". Perhaps the ump heard him, perhaps not.

To me, it was a no-doubter, he was showing up the ump and showing his displeasure for the ump's call. Sometimes that gets you tossed.
Not saying it's right.
Just sayin' I'm not outraged.
Zim knows better.

Posted by: Sunderland | August 18, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

That one hurt. Riggleman'll be justified in saying they played hard, but they didn't play clean. They gave the Braves a run early and then couldn't throw strikes in the 9th. That's why one of these teams is going to the playoffs and the other is going golfing in October...

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

You take Burnett out to get RH pitcher Clippard in and lose the game to a left handed hitter down the line...I would have left Burnett in but managers love getting RH pitchers in to pitch to RH hitters...supposed to be some magic in that but I don't see it...a good relief pitcher is a good relief pitcher...River gets them all out...L or R hitting...

Posted by: pentagon40 | August 18, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Same old Clippard. Get behind in the count, get shelled, lose game.

Posted by: LeeM9308 | August 18, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Sunderland....
Watch the replay....
Zimm strikes out, tosses the bat, then the helmut, but says nothing (he's biting his lip for sure...pretty sure that is OK), and THEN the ump tosses him.

Posted by: TimDz | August 18, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Sunderland, he had already been tossed by the time he said "F'in BS" with his back to the umpire. He tossed him for throwing the bat and helmet. Probably debatable for Zim to do that there but the ump really should have let it go.

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

The angle I saw, I am 100% positive he was cussing

Posted by: Sunderland | August 18, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Well, since we're on the Jimmy V kick tonight, remember from that last memorable speech he made about never giving up hope. I know pulling for the Nats pales in comparison, but he was, to put it mildly, an inspiration.

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

I understood he was pissed at himself. So Pudge gets tossed last night from the dug out. And Zim gets tossed tonight for tossing his bat and helmet. Which I have seen many, many batters do after a strike out and they don't get tossed.
Nats been getting the short end all season from what is called "major-league" umpires...more like bush league.

And who teaches fielding fundamentals to these bozos? Can they not get the words "It's mine!" out of their mouths?

On another subject, how did our $40 million dollar homerun king do? Was it 0 for 4 again with a hit into a DP?

Well, at least the Nats have shown they can beat Lowe. Tomorrow is going to be a win. I'm praying for it.
Go Nats!

Posted by: M20832 | August 18, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Re: Zim's toss: it's the order of events. Look at it again, sunderland. It's very clear--Zim is ejected, then says the rude words, not the other way around. It's not even close. Completely unambiguous.

At least as far as I'm concerned, my outrage is not at this one particular instance of Zim getting ejected, but instead a series of stupid umpire tricks that have permeated the season.

I remember quite clearly when Roy Oswalt got tossed in Houston vs. the Nats. Completely unjustified, but the umpire thought the game was all about him, so he kicked Oswalt out.

This year has seen some of the worst umpiring in memory, across the league. Tonight's just the latest example.

Posted by: shepdave2003 | August 18, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

How many times can you say it, "good teams find ways to win, while bad teams find ways to lose"!

69 L's with 42 to play can we say 100? Sked is rough down the streach (they do get the Cubs, Astros and Pirates for about 10 games of the final 42)

Posted by: TippyCanoe | August 18, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Yes, there have been some big-time bad calls this year, amplified by the increasing espn, youtube, etc, coverage, but a blanket condemnation of the umps is unwarranted.

Scott Barry is not a veteran MLB ump, and I bet he is called on the carpet for this ejection, as he should be.

But the vast majority of the time, the umps get it right and they respond with appropriate tolerance, dealing with big, big egos and consequences. I respect them for the job they do.

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Ha, yeah, I saw Zimm dropping the F' bomb in disgust before the ump gave him the heave ho, too... Zimm had his back to the umpire, had already tossed his bat, and clearly said something to the effect of "f'ing stupid"... then the ump gave him the toss...

Not saying the ejection was justified at all... I don't think Zimm was in any way, shape or form trying to show the umpire up and anyone with any knowledge of the game knows what kind of person Zimm is... but he didn't say nothing... he definitively threw his bat to the ground in disgust and then dropped the F bomb, one pitch after he clearly disagreed with the Strike 2 call (as evidenced by his move to trot down to first base as if it was ball 4)...

But, true, the point is, did he throw his bat down and cuss because he was mad at the umpire for a questionable call or was he mad at himself for striking out in a key situation... at this point, I would think through his reputation as both a highly skilled player and a stand up person he would have gained the benefit of the doubt on that point... but apparently this umpire disagreed...

Posted by: Ghost7 | August 18, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Enough about Zim getting tossed, already. The more important thing about tonight is it showed yet again how the Nats repeatedly find the same ways to lose--mental errors in the field and relief pitchers tossing like byatches (ie afraid to throw strikes). It doesn't matter how hard you play, Riggs, if you keeping playing stupid and falling behind hitters in the crunch.
Natural talent is only half the battle. Morgan, Desmond, Clippard--they've all got skills. What I question is their baseball smarts (none of these guys is new to the game) and, in Clippard's case, cojones.

Posted by: jdsp2000 | August 18, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Worth noting that was (according to MASN) the first ejection in Ryan Zimmerman's MLB career.

Posted by: greggwiggins | August 18, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Anyway you cut it they're no better than when Manny was here they're headed for 100 loses, error's abound situational hitting is abysmal,Dunn for all the ballyhoo still doesn't hit when it counts the starting pitching other than Stras and Livo is in a word horrible, if Rizzo is smart he would make a strong pitch for Carl Crawford to play LF with Nyjer in CF and Bernadina in RF until Harper is ready. I would sit Desmond down after the season and let him know that 2010 was it as far as errors are concerned anything close to a repeat of that bullsh#t and he's got a one way ticket back to Syracuse.I'm still not closed on Riggleman returning for 2011 i think this team needs a bench coach who can light a fire or a new manager, either way McCatty needs to go along with Radison and Eckstein.

Posted by: dargregmag | August 18, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag - enough already. i'm in full agreement about the bench coaches and over and over have questioned the loss of Grissom who seemed to have benefited the team last year. But then this crazy talk about Nyjer being the answer in CF and getting Crawford (good luck on that one, Nats) just seems off the mark. I'm a big fan of you and your passion, but I have to say I disagree with you on this rant.

I have a whole 'nother thing to say about this BS umpiring tho. That's another matter altogether.

Hey dargregmag -- I'm hoping we got one W in your beloved A-T-L, but the way the Braves have been playing at home, tough to say. 21 walk-off wins? unreal!

Posted by: mo_dc | August 18, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

Simply a bad team right now. Defense and baserunning continue to cost outs and games. It's painful to watch the contrast with a good team. Putting a sub-.200 hitting outfielder in the lineup every night is no way to win either - although Willie did come through tonight.

Hard to be hopeful for 70 wins - they'd have to play .450 ball, don't see it happening. Can't think of a single area of the game in which the Nats are average or above right now - well, the bullpen's been pretty good actually until last night.

Posted by: utec | August 18, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Um, dargregmag, in case you didn't notice, we showed some fire tonight. And our third baseman got thrown out of the game and so did the manager and they still lost. And the complaints about the coaches are getting old, too. It's the talent. The Nats don't have enough. More than they did last year (and no, they're not going to lose 100 games again) but not enough to succeed.

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

But at least we have Marquis going Friday night!

Posted by: nats24 | August 18, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

It's not that complicated for the Nats. Yes, they need more talent; and it's on the way, via youngsters on the farm and (I hope) a free agent or two. In the meantime, the toughest thing to watch is the self-defeating stuff that undermines the talent they already possess.
To wit:
In the field: Know which fielder is going to catch the pop fly; eat the ball rather than risk throwing it away when the odds of getting the runner at first are close to nil.
Pitchers: Throw strike 1 and strike 2, especially to light hitters, especially late in the game (I'm looking at you, Clippard);
Hitters: Shorten your stroke with two strikes and runners on and definitely don't get caughting looking at strike three (if it's close, swing).
I see the Nats disregarding these things night after night. They could resurrect the '27 Yankees, put em in Nats jerseys, and they'd still lose if they shoot themselves in the foot like that.

Posted by: jdsp2000 | August 18, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Rizzo will have permission to make a deal for an OF with some pop, say Hermida? Bernadina, Morgan and Morse is a pretty mediocre unit and it's even worse to have Maxwell, Mench and Harris as the backups.

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

BTW, when you want to blame the coaches, one of the guys having the biggest problem in the field was Adam Kennedy. He's got like 12 years in the league. How is coaching going to help him now?

Posted by: baltova1 | August 18, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Denver Post reports Rockies are releasing Brad Hawpe. He's 31. Career average: 280. He's slipped to about .250 this year. He's no Babe Ruth, but he's had four 20 + homer seasons. He might give us a little more depth.

Posted by: jdsp2000 | August 18, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

The player's going to get tossed 99% of the time for what Zim did. Strike one was the slow, deliberate walk back to the plate after the called strike. Strike two was slamming the bat down. Strike three was throwing the helmet.

To me it's the right outcome for the wrong reason -- the real reason he got tossed was because the umpire's ego got bruised; the correct reason would be to set an example for kids watching the game. I don't want to see pros throwing equipment around like that without consequence.

Posted by: joebleux | August 18, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Watching the initial ejection and the replay during the game (from my sofa, not a grassy knoll), my impression was that Zimm said "F'in BS" before being tossed (with his back to the ump). I agree that he seemed to be mad at himself, though I'd also opine that one might be more likely to say simply "F" in that case rather than "F'in BS."

Also, I still think W-L records are kinda bogus. Burnett gets the L, not Clippard? Whatever.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | August 19, 2010 6:55 AM | Report abuse

Burnett got the loss due to putting the winning run on.

Posted by: M20832 | August 19, 2010 7:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm aware of the rules, but I still think it's not the best indicator of a pitcher's performance.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | August 19, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

I'm aware of the rules, but I still think it's not the best indicator of a pitcher's performance.

I agree with you. Doesn't seem right when Burnett gets four outs with no runs and Clippard walks one and gives up the game winning hit.

Posted by: M20832 | August 19, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

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