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Year in review: best surprise, most disappointing

We'll end the reader review with a pair of questions.

And also:

By Adam Kilgore  | October 4, 2010; 6:00 PM ET
 
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Next: A Bryce Harper update from the Instructional League

Comments

For most disappointing, I nominated "barely finishing above the Orioles, as at one point the O's were around 32-70 or so."

Natinals only finished a few games better than the Fighting Showalter's. Now that's sad!!

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Biggest surprise for me was Livan's full season performance. I was rooting for him, but it was still a pleasant surprise. Morse was surprising too.

My biggest disappointment was Morgan, but mainly because I expected less of Marquis.

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 4, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Way to go Poopy. Your team only sucked a little less than 27 other teams (including the Nats). Great platform from which to lob poop.

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 4, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

No need to be all bitter and angry because the O's clearly have a more successful 2011 than the Washington Natinals.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Wanted to repost this and get the opinions of the denizens here:

@jdVA, gilbertbp and anyone else who has made comments about our little troll issue:

I contacted the ombudsman at WAPO (knowing full well this was not the right person, but also knowing that I would get directed to someone) and I received an e-mail address:


interactivity@washingtonpost.com


These folks apparently oversee the website. I made a request for the aforementioned "ignore" button/option. While I have not gotten any response as of yet, I will pass along anything I get in the way of responses.

In the mean time, I would strongly suggest that everyone else who feels the same send a similar e-mail. Maybe if enough make complaints, these guys will take some action.

Posted by: TimDz | October 4, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Adam, I like these surveys, but I'm having a lot of trouble with them on my computer. I can't see the results without revoting over and over, and sometimes they don't work at all. Small trouble, but I am interested in what the results are.

Would be interested to know your thoughts, and if there's a general consensus on what a "#1 starter" means to Rizzo. A Marquis look alike isn't going to cut it for me after he made those comments.

Also interested in the idea someone mentioned previously about analyzing payrolls (and farm systems, perhaps) around the league, and whether the Nats aren't spending enough to win, whether we fans are not patient enough, or whether the curse of Jim Bowden will remain forever. Thanks.

Posted by: nervousnatsfan | October 4, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I was surprised at the degree to which Dave Sheinin turned into nothing more than a Strasburg stalker. Can't believe the Post continued to pay him as his output as MLB beat writer/Baseball Insider blog contributor was virtually nil - even after Strasburg had his TJ surgery. Also amazed that Strasburg wasn't forced to take out a restraining order against him.

Posted by: nunof1 | October 4, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

That's actually pretty sad, TimDz

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

TimDz, I suspect that the blog posting software is COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) that WaPo's IT people just install on their server, do a little configuration to get it running, then walk away. If there's an ignore feature, I'd be surprised. And delighted.

BTW, English BA, every time you type "Fighting Showalter's" (about fifty, I'm guessing), you prove that you must have graduated with a 1.90 GPA, and you only did that well because you cheated on your exams. "Fighting Showalter's" is the singular possessive form of the proper noun "Fighting Showalter." It is NOT the plural of "Fighting Showalter." Proper use of the apostrophe is not an impenetrable mystery to anyone with a real degree in English.

Dumb@ss.

Posted by: gilbertbp | October 4, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

TimDz, thanks for the work and I'll send an email in the morning. Would be great to have a forum to discuss baseball with Nats fans and not have to wade thru inane posts to find the people who are actually interested in doing more then annoying people.

Posted by: SCNatsFan | October 4, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Uh oh. I hope the grammar police doesn't come arrest me b4 I get a chance to escape.

Oh no i used 'b4' that's just more for the grammar police to nail me with.

And scantsfan, how is me telling you the TRUTH about the lowly Natinals the same as making inane and off-topic posts?

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Oh no i used 'b4' that's just more for the grammar police to nail me with.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 9:07 PM
=============================================
Run-on sentence. Let's see, I think it was Mrs. Stein who taught us what a run-on sentence was in fourth grade.

Dumb@ss.

Posted by: gilbertbp | October 4, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting sick of this Poop too and will send an email, TimDZ. Thanks.

Posted by: jdsp2000 | October 4, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

You guys do realize that even if the Post does implement an 'Ignore' feature that clicking it will just send you down the same black hole that the current 'Report abuse' feature does, don't you? In other words, it will do nothing. The only way to get rid of this troll or any other internet troll is to quit feeding him. Don't bait him, don't provoke him, don't even mention him. Ignore him. You don't need a button to do that. Just do it. Next thing you know, the troll will just melt away like the Wicked Witch of the West did when Dorothy threw water on her. Really, there is no other way. Quit feeding the troll.

Posted by: nunof1 | October 4, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

nunof1, the hockey boards I'm on allows you to block users; they can still post, thier posts just aren't seen on my screen. I do agree that not feeding the trolls is an easier way if you don't let them bait you, which of course they are always trying to do. I'll do my best not to feed them.

Posted by: SCNatsFan | October 4, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting sick of this Poop too and will send an email, TimDZ. Thanks.

Posted by: jdsp2000 | October 4, 2010 9:33 PM
----------

Maybe you could use more fiber in your diet.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

nunof1: the problem with the "report abuse" link is that there is technically no abuse going on. Being annoying and making inflamatory comments aren't abuse.

Reminds me of the scene in "A Few Good Men"

Dave: I'm gonna have him charged!
Caffee: With what? possession of a condiment?
Dave: Your client THOUGHT it was marijuana!
Caffee: My client's a moron, Dave, that's not against the law.

Posted by: TimDz | October 4, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Can't wait to see how much whining is going on here next year when the O's completely blow the Natinals, and most of MLB, out of the water with their awesomeness.

O's will be on MASN tons next year with the Natinals relegated to MASN2.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, TimDz, and....crickets...

My biggest surprise was probably Matt Capps, given the year he'd had before coming to the Nats. Livo's been great, but that didn't surprise me. (And no, I'm not his mom. ;-))

I don't do biggest disappointment, so you're on your own there.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | October 4, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

No, the problem with the 'Report Abuse' link is that it does nothing, even if there is real abuse. An e-mail may be sent if you click that link, but if so it is ignored. The same will be the case if they implement an 'Ignore' link. It will do nothing. This isn't the same technology as those "message boards" you and Bob Carpenter are on. The Post uses nothing that sophisticated. They don't even require a valid e-mail address in order to get an account here. Expecting them to be sophisticated enough to have an 'Ignore' feature that actually works is a pipe dream. Just exercise some discipline and ignore the troll on your own.

Posted by: nunof1 | October 4, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't do biggest disappointment, so you're on your own there.

Posted by: natsfan1a1 | October 4, 2010 9:59 PM
----------

It's hard to be disappointed when the Washington Natinals keep their fans expectations oh so very low.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

The troll's only abuse is reflexive.

Doesn't even know the difference between grammar and spelling.

It was born pwned. Pity it.

But do not speak to it. Look, and pass on.

Posted by: Sec3mysofa | October 4, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

What internet dorks still (actually ever used) use the "pwned"???

HAHAHAHAHA. Terrible

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

It's time for the Nats fans to move beyond worrying about the Woes and their deluded and mean-spirited fans, but, as a last laugh:

-- Better record, Nationals, +3
-- Better attendance, Nationals, +95,000 (fewer Red Sox & Yankee fans at the Yard this season)
-- Improvement over last season, Nats, +10, Woes +2

Finishes don't matter, only the whole season and the facts are clear! For 2010, the Nats are better!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: sonshinefcc | October 4, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Ignoring Po doesn't make him go away. Most of you probably know his work on numerous other Post blogs.

As far as I can tell, he gets paid to do what he does.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 4, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

And yet, the Orioles have more positives going forward into the 2011 season and beyond.

#1 starting with no "hyped up" pitchers missing 2011 b/c of TJ.

#2 being there are more O's fans in the DC/VA/MD area than there are Natinal fans

#3 The O's have an actual MLB manager, not some schlub who only got the job because the previous schlub was equally as bad.

The list goes on and on. And while both the Natinals and O's are making their tee-times now, next year the O's will make the Natinals look like some tee-ball team from Cheverly.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Hey stevie, not just paid, but paid handsomely.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

And you do it so well, Po.

As for admitting when you're wrong: enh, not so good. But I guess you don't get paid for that.

(Sorry for feeding him, y'all - I am an Os fan.)

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 4, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Steve, at least you're smart enough to root for the O's. Next year is their year, while the Natinals, will continue to be, the Natinals.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Ah, this year was supposed to be their breakthrough year, Po. I'll believe it when I see it.

Until then, I'll spend a disproportionate amount of time following the Nats as well - they were a far more interesting team to watch for most of this year.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 4, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Steve, c'mon be real. The only time the Natinals were interesting to watch was when Strasburg pitched, which wasn't that much, and won't be for all of 2011.

Fighting Showalters are gonna ascend to the top of MLB next year.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 4, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Nah, they were more interesting because they were bad in interesting ways. The Os: not so much. (And I'm glad you were able to fix that niggling apostrophe problem everyone was so concerned about.)

Fingers are crossed. I'd actually settle for fourth - maybe third - in the East.

(And no idea who Steve is.)

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 1:45 AM | Report abuse

OMG major brands giving out samples on their favorite products check at http://bit.ly/dry4WG tell others

Posted by: rebecatoby05 | October 5, 2010 2:31 AM | Report abuse

Why isnt' John Lannan included among the choices for disappointments? His failure to fulfill his promise is a major reason the team is still as bad as it is.

Pudge should be included among the surprises. He's 38, and managed to put in almost a full season's worth of games behind the plate.

Posted by: Fairfax6 | October 5, 2010 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Best BallPark Surprises:
- Flippin Pizza
- Dogfish 60 Minute IPA
- Better Give Aways

Biggest Disappointment:
- Boiled Hot Dogs
- Bad Beer Selection in the Stands
- Clint Still There

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 5, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

As to stadium disappointments, please let us not forget the third consecutive year of Scoreboard Fail.

I went to 24 home games total, and at no fewer than eight of these, there were lags in batting statistics (i.e., stats for the previous batter on the board all the way through the next batter's AB) and pitching stats (pitch count not re-set when a reliever came in).

It is amazing to me that after three years they still cannot get this right.

But they never miss showing us the "Main Event," that idiotic presidents' "race."

I, too, vote for an ignore feature here. The troll is keeping me away from NJ, and I miss it.

Posted by: shepdave2003 | October 5, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

I don't care about the troll. He's inconsequential. I'm more frustrated with the strident and repetitive posts from some of our less enthusiastic Nationals fans.

And yes the scoreboard programing and operation is not good. I like kiss cam, dance cam, and salute the troops but the lame thirst inning, rosetta stone, and pizza toss promotions could be better (thank god the mattress shuffle went away). And, please, please, enough with the Teddy can't win thing. Update the whole thing if you must keep them. And by the way, Teddy should be riding a horse, leading the charge, shooting bears, and drinking whisky. Not falling over like a buffoon.

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 5, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Seems to me that the quality of blogs has diminished with more personal vitriol and less "learned" opinion/questions. This is becoming too much like a football blog. Enough already; talk baseball or go a away.

Posted by: norfolkoms | October 5, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

While Marquis was indeed a disappointment most of the disappointment was not his fault he pitched through an injury and was much better after his injury than before.

Posted by: markfd | October 5, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Would like to have voted for Riggleman and his terrible lineups. Also, whoever decided to start Kennedy over Gonzo (a better hitter and MUCH better fielder) after Guzman left and kept the .180 batting Willie Harris on the team all season deserves a vote.

Posted by: Kolchak | October 5, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, there are people in this world who live to annoy. The most effective response in this case is to simply stop posting and reading here and go to a blog which actually reviews submissions. If enough folks did that, maybe the WaPo would do something.

Posted by: Slidell | October 5, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Adam -

You may want to press the Washington Post's management regarding the troll here, because his presence hurts the blog, and, as such, hurts YOU.

Note I use the singular when referring to the troll. There are people here who are harshly critical of the Nats, but they generally bring discussable (is that a word?) arguments to the table. You might not like what they have to say, but you can't legitimately call them trolls.

But when the sum and substance of a post is simply, "Yay, my team's great; your team sucks!" that's more than just trolling; that's flaming. And when that's ALL you see from a poster, then it is clear he has no object but to annoy everyone else. He adds nothing to the discussion and drives thoughtful people away. Is that what you want?

Maybe the mature thing to do is to ignore the flamer, but I've seen a couple of posts from people who are sick of seeing flame wars and who have said they're not coming to this site any more. Let the flamer continue and you'll see more people leave, and your blog will have fewer and fewer intelligent discussions about the Nats and baseball.

And what happens to Adam Kilgore when the Post's management discovers that nobody's coming to his blog any more?

Posted by: gilbertbp | October 5, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

gilbert,

What you describe is certainly what's happened on other Post blogs - the tenor and quality of discussion nosedives (avoiding another metaphor) and people interested in substantive discussion stop coming.

Doesn't strike me as an insoluble problem, but it's one that's changed almost all the Post's blogs over a period of a few years, and the Post seems uninterested in addressing it. They aren't unaware, I'm sure.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

This is effin hilarious. McPoop's picking on a bunch of kindergarteners. Umpteen posts about ignoring him. This thread's a friggin classic. *muttley.gif*

Posted by: Brue | October 5, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

>And, please, please, enough with the Teddy can't win thing. Update the whole thing if you must keep them. And by the way, Teddy should be riding a horse, leading the charge, shooting bears, and drinking whisky. Not falling over like a buffoon.

Posted by: natbiscuits

Absolutely! It's really StanK inside of there. Bet you didn't know that. He's never won anything either.

Posted by: Brue | October 5, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I suspect the problem WaPo has with dealing with trolls is that newspapers are all about freedom of expression. They are not going to be comfortable with censoring of any kind. The readers of and posters on this blog ought to have the maturity to not feed it. Just ignore it. That said, sometimes it takes up screens and screens of space, so an ignore button, if technically feasible, would perhaps be a palatable compromise.

Posted by: NatsFly | October 5, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I have this sinking feeling that the #1 we will be after will be Webb, signed to an incentive laden contract, with the thought that if he's healthy he could be a #1 that costs us nothing but money. He has a history with Rizzo and with the signings of Wang and Olsen the team has shown that they aren't afraid to sign guys coming off surgery, just won't pay alot for them.

Posted by: SCNatsFan | October 5, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Geez, the Natinals can't even get their scoreborad to function properly. Talk about a Mickey Mouse operation.

And Teddy still hasn't won a race? Like really, they're still pushing that gimmick after what 5 years?

Talk about creativity from the Natinals fan experience department.

And kiss-kam? What is this, some Single-A marketing ruse? Seriously, what's next, Thirsty Thursdays?

And the ballpark itself isn't all that much to write home about, or at least not when compared to the lovely stadium up in B'more.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I suspect the problem WaPo has with dealing with trolls is that newspapers are all about freedom of expression. They are not going to be comfortable with censoring of any kind.

Posted by: NatsFly | October 5, 2010 1:09 PM
=============================================
NatsFly, the Washington Post is not the United States government. The First Amendment simply prohibits the federal government (and the states) from restricting free speech. It says nothing about anyone else restricting it.

The Washington Post owns this site, and is free to do with it as it pleases, including barring people for being obnoxious. Other sites do it all the time.

When I am in your home, my First Amendment rights do not prevent you from throwing me out when I deliberately and repeatedly try to annoy your other guests.

And if you, as the host, tell the other guests to "just ignore him," perhaps they will, but you shouldn't be surprised if they decide not to come back to your home as long as they know I'm going to be there.

Again, Adam should have a personal, financial interest in this. The troll is driving away readers. That's the last thing any newspaper - or sports writer - wants these days.

Posted by: gilbertbp | October 5, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Talk about some big babies. Do you need a new bottle? Need a diaper changing? Need some clean blankies? Want me to leave the nightlight on for you?

You know we come here to discuss baseball, not the 1st Amendment or how trivial your own life with house guests is.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Aww, c'mon, Po - you know you don't come here to discuss anything. At least not very often. You come to get your rocks off.

Again: if being a troll is your thing, cool - it's the freakin' interwebs. But don't be hypocritical about it. You're sorta better than that.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Stevie, my posts in some way or another discuss the Natinals. Now, whether or not other posters agree with my statements about the Natinals can most certainly be debated.

But I do discuss the Natinals.

And unlike other posters, I don't threaten physical violence against them if I disagree with their analysis about the Natinals.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

@gilbertop--I am well aware that the First Amendment restricts only governmental actions, which is why I did not mention the First Amendment. I mentioned only a journalistic commitment to freedom of expression and resistance to censorship. I also agree with you that some people leave the blog rather than put up with the deliberately annoying behavior. I just do not think it realistic to expect WaPo to censor posters, much as it would improve the experience of most of those of us who visit this blog, including myself.

Posted by: NatsFly | October 5, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Enh, we'll agree to disagree about the definition of the word "discuss," I guess, Po.

And threats of physical violence - whether they be over disagreements of analysis or as a result of pure hectoring - don't bother me. It's the internet.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Yeah stevie but I'm here to talk about the Natinals and Orioles, not play a keyboard cowboy and act like I'm gonna beat someone up, someone who lives around 3000 miles away.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

>Talk about some big babies. Do you need a new bottle? Need a diaper changing? Need some clean blankies? Want me to leave the nightlight on for you?

You know we come here to discuss baseball, not the 1st Amendment or how trivial your own life with house guests is.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop

I got the same garbage from people who said I (and a couple of others) drove them off of BPG. The site's a lot more fun now without the crybabies who want to, in all seriousness, dissect a crappy team with crappy ownership. We still talk plenty of baseball on there. And nobody throws a fit. Imagine that.

Posted by: Brue | October 5, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, but it doesn't require threats of violence or 3000 miles to be "a keyboard cowboy." Just requires the internet and a certain attitude. But whatevs, I get the line you're drawing.

While a fan of the Os, I just like discussing baseball sometimes (and the Skins). I think it's an open question which of the two teams nearest to me (not "local," gawd forbid, never "local") is on a better track, though how you finish up indicates quite a bit.

Still think Morse is the Nationals' biggest surprise and Marquis their biggest disappointment. The latter is like Lannan on steroids, expectations-wise: one is a relatively unproven (based on number of years) rotation "stabilizer," the other, proven, prior to Washington. Hence, the greater disappointment.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Yeah Brue, I hear ya. If anything all it boils down to is some good-natured trash talking to increase the rivalry between The Battle of the Beltways.

Of course some people will never be happy and will always find something to complain about.

Lord know how much they'll be crying and complaining when the Natinals pick up their operation and move it to Las Vegas in 10 years or so.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Stevie, in all seriousness my 1st post in this thread should really be the "most disappointing" and it shouldn't be just the Natinals.

The Pirates, Mariners, Royals, DBacks, Indians, and Natinals should all be embarassed.

The Fighting Showalters (before they were The Fighting Showalters) were on pace to lose between 110-120 games and than Buck comes in and wins just as many games in 2 months as the other 2 managers won in 4 months.

For those teams mentioned above to either finish with a worse record or nearly an identical record as the O's is downright embarrassing for those teams.

The O's will be a destination for free agents this winter. No one will want to play in Kansas City, Phoenix, Seattle, Cleveland, or Pittsburgh. And only Pittsburgh and Baltimore have rich traditions of baseball and if you want to choose between the 2, right now Baltimore presents a much better opportunity.

And seriously, who, of importance/significance will the Natinals bring in this offseason? I mean they already screwed the pooch on Dunn.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"Adam -

You may want to press the Washington Post's management regarding the troll here, because his presence hurts the blog, and, as such, hurts YOU."

Actually, it doesn't. The Post judges the worthiness of its blogs entirely by page views. No other criteria matter. The more page views a blog gets, the better it is. If a troll posts to a blog, he has to make a page view to do it. That's a good thing. If someone else posts to complain about the troll, they have to make a page view to do it. That's also a good thing. So the troll's presence is actually good for Adam and good for the Post, which is why they're not going to do anything to discourage trolls. Meaning that if you don't like the trolls, quit feeding them. That's the only way you'll get them to go away from here.

Posted by: FeelWood | October 5, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

How many posters in this thread have made a post that doesn't even mention the Natinals or even baseball?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Again, Feel, ignoring trolls doesn't work. People like saying that ('cus it makes 'em feel above it all, maybe?), but it doesn't work. Just an internet fact.

But you're spot-on about what must be the logic on the Post not trying to thwart trolling. The question then becomes, do you lose more people than you gain by having that philosophy? Given that you can view a post without reading the comments, I'd say you are right: the demand for the posts themselves is pretty inelastic.

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I'll disagree with biscuits on this. Flippin' Pizza was not a surprise (if by that, you mean much better product than was expected). It is pretty much a mediocre product, about a cut below "NYC Utility" pizza. I know that the park needs to have pizza, but can't some one cut a deal with Ledo's? Whether you like it or not, it's unique and local.

I also don't think Lannan was a disappointment. He was what was advertised, a 4 or 5.

I'll agree that the Prexy race & Teddy never wins is a bit old, but that is, in a way Kasten's shtick. To a certain extent, he was right in pushing for the "Ballpark Experience" It wouldn't bother me, one way or the other, but I'm afraid that, with youngsters, today, you need to provide such diversions. Now in my day, such nonsense was not needed. 4 or 5 of us would go to the park, sit quietly and watch the game (after buying bleacher seats & sneaking into the grandstand), keep score, maybe make predictions on a variety of things that might soon happen. Sort of keep track of such things by, possibly exchanging some small markers that might have former presidents featured on them. But, we never needed the sort of diversion that kids seem to need, now.

Posted by: mikecatcher50 | October 5, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Enh, I don't agree that those teams (including the Nats) should be more embarrassed than the Os. Even if you win your last 70 games after losing the first 92, your record is your record. The pertinent question is, did you over- or underperform? That's what's embarrassing.

I'd say the Os underperformed more than the Nats, but that may just be the fan in me speaking. I expected more from them than the Nats, even given the divisions they're each in.

And of course because of the way they each finished my expectations are, once again, higher for the Os.

Strikes me that the biggest determinant of who comes to what city is money, pure and simple.

And neither the Nats nor the Os have consistent recent track records of spending/spending wisely. (The Os, obviously, have a longer recent record of being crummy. The Nats have a lot to do to prove they're any better, but right now I'd argue the jury is still out for them.)

Posted by: stevie_in_gp | October 5, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

>Lord know how much they'll be crying and complaining when the Natinals pick up their operation and move it to Las Vegas in 10 years or so.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop

30 year lease. But I'll be dead by then.

Posted by: Brue | October 5, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

"I also don't think Lannan was a disappointment. He was what was advertised, a 4 or 5."

No, two years ago he was advertised as an ace. And he isn't even a decent 4 or 5 at this point. He's terrible.

Posted by: Fairfax6 | October 5, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

No, two years ago he was advertised as an ace. And he isn't even a decent 4 or 5 at this point. He's terrible.

Posted by: Fairfax6 | October 5, 2010 3:39 PM
------

Other than Zimmerman, who on the 2011 Natinals won't be/isn't terrible?

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of the Presidents Race, that does lead to a way of gauging the progress of the team. In 2007 the only possibilities they had for bobbleheads to give out were the four racing presidents. No players at all. In 2008 they had Zimmerman and Dmitri Young - one budding star, and one washed up vet who ended up playing hardly at all after his bobblehead day. In 2009 they had one legitimate star (Dunn) and one throwback (Frank Howard). But in 2010 they were actually able to give away bobbleheads for three players who ended up making legitimate contributions for the entire season - Zimmerman, Morgan and Pudge. (Okay, maybe Morgan's contributions weren't up to expectations, but he did contribute. He wasn't cut or traded or on the DL for a big chunk of the year.) That's a sign of some progress, small as it may be.

Posted by: FeelWood | October 5, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

>"I also don't think Lannan was a disappointment. He was what was advertised, a 4 or 5."

No, two years ago he was advertised as an ace. And he isn't even a decent 4 or 5 at this point. He's terrible.

Posted by: Fairfax6

They keep trotting out the quality start crap when it comes to Lannan. Third time through the order is generally batting practice. They were talking about how JZimm threw so well last time out, and he only made it through 5 innings before they yanked him. Lowered expectations, plus they're so cynical they're afraid to have them get exposed, all because they want to bring all these guys back next year and are searching for a leg to stand on.

Posted by: Brue | October 5, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I suggest two tacts for dealing with Poopy:
#1. clicking the "Report Abuse" link, and letting WaPo Blog staff that this poster is a constant harassment on this blog, and violates numerous User Discussion guidelines, including submitting posts that are (quoting from the User Guidelines)
* is predatory, hateful, or intended to intimidate or harass
* misrepresents your identity or affiliation
* impersonates others

And #2.: Ignore him/her. DO NOT RESPOND to anything they post. EVER. Just pretend you have an "ignore user" button. Read his/her posts if you want, but just move on, and he/she will go away.

Posted by: TheBorg | October 5, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I got the same garbage from people who said I (and a couple of others) drove them off of BPG. The site's a lot more fun now without the crybabies who want to, in all seriousness, dissect a crappy team with crappy ownership. We still talk plenty of baseball on there. And nobody throws a fit. Imagine that.

Posted by: Brue | October 5, 2010 2:38 PM
===========================================
See, when I posted earlier about some people who often criticize the Nats harshly, I had you in mind. But your harsh criticism moves the discussion along - you make points that can be agreed with or disputed, proved or disproved, that keep the discussion moving. You get people angry, I've noticed, but that's because of the harshness of your criticism - not because you're (necessarily) flaming them. I don't have any problem with that, and I think most people don't.

Whereas typing "Your team sucks my team rules HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" over and over again is nothing more than flaming. It contributes nothing to the conversation makes no one happy, and makes many people unhappy. Most of us got over this kind of behavior when we were about six, when we learned that such behavior - similar in principle to peeing in the neighborhood pool - makes you unfit for other people's company.

And, FWIW, I note that since this thread started getting posts from people saying they intended to complain to the WaPo, the troll's posts have started showing some glimmer of actually saying something worth discussing.

Or maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna...

Posted by: gilbertbp | October 5, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

I suggest two tacts for dealing with Poopy:
#1. clicking the "Report Abuse" link, and letting WaPo Blog staff that this poster is a constant harassment on this blog, and violates numerous User Discussion guidelines, including submitting posts that are (quoting from the User Guidelines)
* is predatory, hateful, or intended to intimidate or harass
* misrepresents your identity or affiliation
* impersonates others

And #2.: Ignore him/her. DO NOT RESPOND to anything they post. EVER. Just pretend you have an "ignore user" button. Read his/her posts if you want, but just move on, and he/she will go away.

Posted by: TheBorg | October 5, 2010 4:08 PM
-----------

Got any evidence at all of how I'm impersonating others, misrepresenting my identity or how my posts are hateful?

Yeah thats what I thought.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

OK, Brue. I normally disagree with you, but my mistake. He may have been "advertised" as an ace, but for those of us who actually follow baseball, in general, we never considered him better than a 4 or 5. My Bad!

BTW, much as I hate to admit it, Brue, I'm with you...30 year lease & I'm likely to be permanently horizontal, by then.

Posted by: mikecatcher50 | October 5, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and the O's do rule and the Natinals, well they stink.

haha. The truth shall set you free.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I suggest two tacts for dealing with Poopy:
#1. clicking the "Report Abuse" link, and letting WaPo Blog staff that this poster is a constant harassment on this blog, and violates numerous User Discussion guidelines, including submitting posts that are (quoting from the User Guidelines)
* is predatory, hateful, or intended to intimidate or harass
* misrepresents your identity or affiliation
* impersonates others

And #2.: Ignore him/her. DO NOT RESPOND to anything they post. EVER. Just pretend you have an "ignore user" button. Read his/her posts if you want, but just move on, and he/she will go away.

Posted by: TheBorg | October 5, 2010 4:08 PM
-----------

Got any evidence at all of how I'm impersonating others, misrepresenting my identity or how my posts are hateful?

Yeah thats what I thought.
Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 4:15 PM

------

Don't need it, since you just admitted to being predatory, and intending to intimidate and harass the other posters on this Blog. :-) Oops.

Posted by: TheBorg | October 5, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

" suggest two tacts for dealing with Poopy:
#1. clicking the "Report Abuse" link"

That's nothing but a black hole. Try not to get carpal tunnel when you keep clicking it and nothing happens.

Posted by: FeelWood | October 5, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I agree Ledo'd would be better. But my kind hearted comments toward Flippin Pizza were in the context of "I hate Papa Johns" more than "Flippin Pizza is the best ever".

As for Lannan he was neither a disappointment nor an ace for me. I am - relatively speaking - relieved to see his name turn up in the rotation. His bad start was depressing; his return to form pleasing. He is not now nor ever will be Greg Maddux, but he could start ahead of a number of playoff team pitchers this year (cough A.J. Burnett, cough).

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 5, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I agree Ledo'd would be better. But my kind hearted comments toward Flippin Pizza were in the context of "I hate Papa Johns" more than "Flippin Pizza is the best ever".

As for Lannan he was neither a disappointment nor an ace for me. I am - relatively speaking - relieved to see his name turn up in the rotation. His bad start was depressing; his return to form pleasing. He is not now nor ever will be Greg Maddux, but he could start ahead of a number of playoff team pitchers this year (cough A.J. Burnett, cough).

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 5, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

See, we all can at least agree Ledo's is better than the other garbage pizza in the VA/DC/MD area.

The O's are like Ledo's and the Natinls are like Papa Johns.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | October 5, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

The Flippin Pizza game that they played with Clint every night would have been a lot better if they fried up that thing the loser was tossing and forced him to eat it, don't you think? The winner could fry his up and force feed it to Clint. Now I'm watching!

Posted by: FeelWood | October 5, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Yep, the Ledo's near me closed up shop and left town ... (hmmm, maybe the O's...)

Posted by: natbiscuits | October 5, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Lannan was not terrible. He started ok, went totally off the rails, went to the minor leagues and fixed his problem and was effective after he came back. He was the Nats best for a couple of years, so ace by default, but it's hard to imagine that anyone ever envisioned a soft tosser of that sort being an ace in the sense of a dominating pitcher. If he's as good next year as he was after his return he will be fine.

Posted by: markfromark | October 6, 2010 7:37 AM | Report abuse

"[I]t's hard to imagine that anyone ever envisioned a soft tosser of that sort being an ace in the sense of a dominating pitcher."

Yeah, soft tossing, that's why Warren Spahn and Whitey Ford never amounted to much.

Anyway, your view of what his season was like is all wrong. He started out miserably, pitched acceptably, then pitched poorly, then improved, then pitched poorly. He went to the minors, and when he came back was still his inconsistent self, though did manage to perform at a slightly higher level than previously.

All of which adds up to a terrible season overall. After his loss on June 2nd, Lannan's ERA was 4.79. After his loss on September 27th (his final game), his ERA was 4.65. His 5 week stint in the minors came in between that, and didn't do much to make him an acceptable major league starting pitcher. He obviously didn't "fix" his problems down at Double A, he was still terrible down there (1-4 record, 4.20 ERA). He came back up simply because the Nots rotation problems were so severe.

Two years ago, the Nots insisted on putting him in the starting rotation, and insisted he was going to be a star. That obviously hasn't worked out, and now he's just an aging player of unrealized potential who'll probably never amount to anything worth mentioning. Like Roger Bernadina, Justin Maxwell, Jordan Zimmermann, Ross Detwiler, and who knows how many others still to be wasted because the Nots do such a lousy job of player development.

Think about this: The Lerners are notoriously cheap when it comes to spending money at the ML level. I'd say most Nots fans think Riggleman is an inadequate manager who gets to keep his job because he has to accept less than a good manager would be able to demand. You think the farm system is staffed by the best coaches and managers available? An organization this bad at the top is bound to be just as bad at all levels.

Posted by: Fairfax6 | October 6, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Lannan, Ford and Spahn. Pretty much the same sort of pitcher.

Posted by: markfromark | October 6, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"Lannan, Ford and Spahn. Pretty much the same sort of pitcher."

You obviously don't know anything about what Lannan's season was like, so not commenting further would be a very good idea, least you produce any more efforts like exceptionally lame one.

Posted by: Fairfax6 | October 6, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Came back from Panama in '41 and was immediately sworn in by the other kids as a "Rabid Redskins Fan"...ignoring of course the 73-0 debacle. Been one ever since, no matter how bad they were, just 'cuz they were my hometown team. Baugh, Farkas, Wee Willy Wilkens etc. About the same time fell for the Senators. When the war ended Cecil Travis came back to join Stan Spence, and Mickey Vernon, and sometimes Bobo Newsom...wonderful ball players to watch, but never got to the post-season. Mr. Griffith did the best he could for the team and the city. Lost Early Wynn but there was Pedro Ramos (hell of a change-up) By '58 we had Killibrew and Allison and potential but soon that team left. Got a new one but Navy duty took me afar and I missed those years. Without a team I like many took the Orioles and they were a great bunch to watch until they got a lousy owner. Now that I am 80 I have a young and fun Washington team to cheer on even tho I had to move to San Diego. Like most developing teams they need pitching and that takes time and a commitment to a farm system (which I think our owners have). In the meantime all you critics, be patient and enjoy Zimmerman, Dunn, Desmond, Morse, Strasberg (he'll be back!), the other Zimm, and the rest of the team.

THE MAIN THING IS TO ENJOY AND NOT LET LOSSES RUIN YOUR LIFE...they hard enough on the kids who are playing.

Posted by: fatdadret | October 6, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

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