Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: AdamKilgoreWP and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Sports and Redskins  |  RSS
Posted at 5:42 PM ET, 12/26/2010

Brandon Webb comes off the market

By Adam Kilgore

Brandon Webb, the former Cy Young winner currently recovering from shoulder surgery whom the Nationals had pursued in free agency, has agreed to a deal with the Rangers, according to a report by ESPN's Jayson Stark.

Webb's apparent signing means the Nationals have one less option to potentially upgrade their rotation, which General Manager Mike Rizzo has repeatedly said is a priority. The Nationals remain among the favorites to sign free agent right-hander Carl Pavano, who is expected to decide his 2011 team within days. The Twins, for whom Pavano won 17 games in 2010, are another likely landing spot for Pavano.

The Nationals had tried to trade for Zack Greinke before the Milwaukee Brewers acquired him from the Royals. They still could try to pursue a trade for Matt Garza of the Tampa Bay Rays in order to add a starter to the front of their rotation.

By Adam Kilgore  | December 26, 2010; 5:42 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Nationals reach two-year deal with Sean Burnett
Next: Yunesky Maya's promising winter in the Dominican

Comments

Looks like it's Pavano or big, big bust.

Posted by: AtomicOvermind | December 26, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Looks like its a trade. Pavano makes little sense unless they manage to trade away Marquis.

Phil Wood say the first base question will be settled this week. Hopefully, that along with some hope in the area of starting pitching?

Posted by: periculum | December 26, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Phil Wood say the first base question will be settled this week.

Posted by: periculum | December 26, 2010 6:34 PM
===========================================
And he knows this because...?

Posted by: gilbertbp | December 26, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

Pavano is not worth the 3/30 type of deal he wants

Seeing that these owners only spend in very short spurts, a deal like that would mean three more years of Rick Ankiel, Matt Stairs, and other bargain bin signings, three more years of having one of the lowest paid managers in baseball, and three more years of losing.

Posted by: TGT11 | December 26, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

It will not be Brad Hawpe at 1B.

There is no front end SP trade coming, I would bet. This club has a history of hopeful thinking come the winters. They see Wang back in form in May, Zimmermann coming into his own, Lannan becoming the crafty lefty, Maya is El Duque Duo, etc.

Posted by: dfh21 | December 26, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Let's play with the cards in the deck rather than spending big bucks on question marks. Pavano is a limp arm hopeful.

Posted by: navboss | December 26, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

I hope the so-called experts who laughed at the Werth deal pay attention when the Nats lose out on everyone else they try and get in the market. The Lerners and Bowden really polluted the well from 2006-2010, and now the club has to overbid big time. Even then they still may lose out.

Posted by: Kev29 | December 26, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

And he knows this because...?

And Phil Wood sez:
"The first base question for the Nationals should be answered sometime this week, according to club sources."

Posted by: periculum | December 26, 2010 9:39 PM | Report abuse

"They see Wang back in form in May, Zimmermann coming into his own, Lannan becoming the crafty lefty, Maya is El Duque Duo, etc."

That sounds very much like the guy who wanted to sign Elijah Dukes: carnival barker Jim Bowden.

I don't believe that is how Rizzo and his FO see it. One way or another they are going to build a top notch starting rotation just as they have revamped the bullpen. They have the means all that is required is the right opportunity.

Posted by: periculum | December 26, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Not losing any sleep over Webb signing with Texas. Will be happy if we get Pavano, but not distraught if we don't as he's the same crap shot over three years that Webb was for one. Nats are committed to improving the team but thankfully don't seem to be panicking into reacting to all the internet angst. I have no complaints with what Rizzo is doing and his decisions about when to holster and when to pull the trigger. Much better than pulling the trigger after holstering. It's not even January and there are still a lot of options out there. It's not like we're expecting the Nats to compete for a playoff spot this year.

Posted by: McKinley2 | December 26, 2010 10:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm ok with this non-signing. I've read conflicting things about Webb's shoulder, but bottom line - it is his shoulder, not an elbow that he is attempting to recover from.

But Wang is not enough either. Forget the major top of the rotation starter that apparently is just not available. Get a number two or number three at least. No matter how much you want to root for Zimmermann, Wang, Maya, Hernandez, Lannan, Detwiler, Marquis, and the rest, you just can't count on all of them to have better years than they have recently had. Maybe two or three of them do, but there is not enough luck in Washington for all of them to come through.

Pavano would be a good add, but is he really worth three years? Two with a mutual option at best. But they might have to go 3 or more to get him.

Posted by: natbiscuits | December 26, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

The most curious thing about Phil Wood's post over at MASN was the suggestion that the Nationals could move Werth to 1B in 2012 to make room for Harper. Werth is an outstanding outfielder and there are plenty of real first base options. I buy that they might move Werth for Harper - although moving Harper to center has also been floated - but I don't buy that they would move Werth to first. Haven't they already tried moving players from other positions? Perhaps Wood heard this from someone, but more likely he is speculating on his own.

Posted by: natbiscuits | December 26, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

@natsbiscuits,

I don't think Phil Wood is completely speculating on his own. But he is probably making his inference. Some of the Rizzo's main rationalizations for the signing of Werth were genetic: the guy's mother was an olympic athlete. His father, Jeff Gowan, was a pretty good athlete. I guess Dicky Schofield is in the family tree. Both of his sisters were college scholarship athletes. Bottom line: he will stay in shape so that he can continue to compete. That means he should be effective in the right field for a very long time. Ted Williams played there into his 40's in Boston.

That said I think first base for Werth is something they would consider if they filled the outfield up with high ceiling prospects. (think Justin Upton and Bryce Harper). Given Corey Brown's gaudy performance in the Arizona Fall League I wouldn't count him out just yet? Rizzo might believe he might finally be ready for the break out season. For all we know Michael Aubrey (who hit 22 homers reasonably injury free for the first time) might be as well.

Here's the difference between Circus master Bowden and Rizzo: Rizzo likes younger prospects but preferably college athletes, so not too young unless they are "special". He doesn't stop once he fills a position. If he is playing the "sleeper" card he gathers as many potential "sleepers" as he can and lets them compete against each other believing that competition could bring forth the break through.

Makes sense to me.

Except for starting pitching things are far better than they seem. But I believe Rizzo and his brain trust will address that. And NOT just with Carl Pavano.

Posted by: periculum | December 27, 2010 12:48 AM | Report abuse

One things me and Jayson Werth have in common. Neither of us are going to be playing 1B next year.

Posted by: Sunderland | December 27, 2010 6:00 AM | Report abuse

Pretty well agree with everything you said, peric. And with Sunderland's comment.

Posted by: jcampbell1 | December 27, 2010 6:29 AM | Report abuse

Feeling pretty confident that we're gonna get LaRoche. He's likely had an offer from us for weeks. And Rizzo is prepared to increase the offer if necessary. So he's just waiting for LaRoche to either accept or come back with a better offer for Rizzo to beat.

As for SP's, I think there is reason to believe that we could be better off as is than last year.
The most likely upgrades include:
- Zimmermann, two seasons removed from his TJ surgery.
- Maya, better prepared for MLB
- Marquis, healthy and contract motivated

There's not a lot of upside with Marquis, and there's likely not a lot of upside with Maya, but at least there is real reason to believe all 3 will be improved.

There are other potentialities out there (Detwiler, Wang, etc) but the above three are pretty likely to perform better in 2011 than in 2010. Although it's also easy to suggest Livo will regress from his stellar 2010.

Posted by: Sunderland | December 27, 2010 6:34 AM | Report abuse

I'm not a major (or minor) fan of LaRoche. Before he became a free agent, he was barely on the radar as a baseball player, with good reason. Much prefer Lee, and what he could bring to the team.
Deitweiler is a player that most people seem to have written off as an above average pitcher. I'm not one of them. Before his injury, (2009) he had a very successful stint in September, that following good numbers in triple A. He has better stuff than most of the Nat's pitchers, so maybe, just maybe, he will come through this year and be a solid number three pitcher for the team.

Posted by: jcampbell1 | December 27, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

our defense will be much better. just stop walking and balking so much and it will be a big improvement.

Posted by: longterm | December 27, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

This isn't my idea alone. Others with more knowledge about the mechanics of pitching have commented on this (either here or at NJ): It's Detwiler's pitching motion. He apparently feuded with St. Claire about making that change. After St. Claire left, Detwiler mentioned going back to what made him successful. Then came the injury and rehab. Is he coachable? Is he injury prone? Those are big questions concerning Detwiler. They are also two very different questions that really need to be answered. Just one guy's opinion...

Posted by: fpcsteve | December 27, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Deitweiler is a player that most people seem to have written off as an above average pitcher.

Except at third base, I don't think the Nats can write off anybody who is above average.

Posted by: markfromark | December 27, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Brandon Webb will get about $3MM guaranteed, w/ incentives that could bring total package to $8-10MM from the Texas Rangers. I'm glad the Nats didn't make this deal for Brandon Webb.

Posted by: 4U2Know | December 27, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Hurry Pants only seven weeks to spring training! I thought you and Depens Pants had connections with Brandon Webb out of the Univ. of Kentucky and the Diamondbacks!! I hope Derrick Lee decides to come here instead of the playoff-ready Padres!! That would be a coupe, Pants - a coupe!!! Or maybe like the great Fill Wood says, you can move Jayson Werth to 1B and put Bryce Harper in RF - oh that's right, he didn't say that until next year at the earliest. Pants are you leaking information Fill again?? Quit playing pocket pool, Pants! No more pocket pool! Call up Boras and see if he can rip you off again Pants! It's better than pocket pool!!!!! Go Pants Go Go Pants Go

Posted by: Brue | December 27, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Phil Wood is out there some times. Speculation on Werth playing 1B? Wow.

Posted by: dfh21 | December 27, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Just say no to Pavano! I would rather take a chance on...say Chris Young from the Padres than him. I still say Nick Johnson would be a perfect interim 1b solution. LaRoche would be way too much money. I'd rather have D. Lee than LaRoche...

Posted by: JpJp | December 27, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Just say no to Pavano! I would rather take a chance on...say Chris Young from the Padres than him. I still say Nick Johnson would be a perfect interim 1b solution. LaRoche would be way too much money. I'd rather have D. Lee than LaRoche...

Posted by: JpJp | December 27, 2010 2:11 PM

I'm fine with either Lee or LaRoche. Lee is declining, but could have a lot to offer the franchise. Both are polished glove men at first.

I don't care how much any pitcher or first baseman costs us, just get them. The Nats still very low in committed payroll for 2011.

Posted by: Kev29 | December 27, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps in the future Werth may play first if his bat speed doesn't diminish. Seems unlikely though.

Michael Aubrey and Nick Johnson are in the same club but Aubrey is younger.

Posted by: periculum | December 27, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I love Nick Johnson... but, seriously... how could anyone give that guy a major league contract going into 2011? A minor league contract with an invite to major league Spring Training, sure... but, to give that guy guaranteed money after he has averaged less then 50 games played over the last 4 years would be pretty risky (i.e. stupid)...

And, at this point with his track record, his role would not be starting 1st baseman on a team, it would be lefty off the bench, and like it or not, we already filled that spot with Rick Ankiel...

Sign Laroche for 2 years now! Or, hell, sign Lee for 1 year now... we need an established 1b guy that can play some D and hit a little bit pretty bad...

Posted by: Ghost7 | December 27, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Besides being injury-prone, Nick Johnson is no longer the defensive asset he once was at 1B. Bringing him back would be as much of a PR disaster for the Nats as it would be an ill-conceived solution to the 1B vacancy.

Posted by: McKinley2 | December 27, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Gentleman; Glad to see some support for D.Lee,not in the Larouche camp at all, would love to sign Pavano if the price is right.I would love to see Nick Johnson as a backup to Lee(if we could sign him) but not sure how that would work in term's of money but Johnson if healthy would bolster the bench, any input?

Posted by: dargregmag | December 27, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

@dargreg: Either D.Lee or LaRoche is good by me at 1B on no more than a 2-year contract. I just don't want to consider the alternatives (Kotchmann, Giambi, Mienkiewitz, Branyan, etc) in platoon with Morse as an alternative; That's just wrong, given the team's financial resources.

On other points...
- Pavano = No. He would add little, except another 'inning-eater' at the 3-4SP slot, and he wants a three-year deal. Remenber the Yankees contract?
- Nick Johnson = No, h--l no, and absolutely not. He runs a 50-50 chance of hurting himself getting dressed in the morning, let alone getting into the dugout & taking the field on any given day. Stairs & Ankiel can more than fill any role that Johnson could have on the 2011 Nationals roster.

Posted by: BinM | December 27, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm working backwards here for a moment, but had hoped that Santa had put a better 'punch-line' in Brue's stocking than the "Pants=Rizzo" bit he's been [ab]using lately; Such was apparently not the case (sigh).

Oh well, even if the sock was filled with coal, at least he's consistent. God bless Tiny Tim & Brue, God bless everyone.

Posted by: BinM | December 27, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

I like LaRoche for relative youth, left-handedness, and slightly superior fielding capability, but I prefer Lee for better contact rate, higher overall offensive production, and consistency. I theorize that Lee would play slightly better at Nationals Park based on the right-handed power to left field.

I do think the team needs more power from the left side, but LaRoche goes on extended slumps and I'd rather have consistent right handed production than sometimes left handed production.

Overall, I vote Lee. (where do I turn in my ballot?)

Posted by: natbiscuits | December 27, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

If we sign LaRoche, no chance we sign Nick Johnson. If we sign Derrek Lee, small, very small, almost zero chance we would as a left handed bat.

DLee or LaRoche? DLee has both more upside (talent) but also more risk (age). l
LaRoche, less upside, less risk, and a left handed bat.
I'd prefer LaRoche.

Seems to me we still need another backup infielder to complete the 25 man roster.

Posted by: Sunderland | December 27, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

I agree on the need for a backup infielder. Willie Bloomquist would be a good addition as he plays every position except C, 1B, and P. (Probably not SS either, but he plays 2B so Espinoza can slide over.

Posted by: natbiscuits | December 27, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Guys, I've been off-line, who does Phil Wood have playing 1B today, Marquis?

Posted by: dfh21 | December 28, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

FWIW, I vote for LaRoche. The dropoff in DLee's numbers last year would scare me away from him, since he's 34. Plus, LaRoche is a lefty. As for worrying about the money it would take to sign him and Pavano to multiyear deals, didn't the Nats supposedly move past that when they signed Werth? Give 'em the money.

Posted by: baltova1 | December 28, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Another FWIW: I'd sign Pavano. Look at the upside: in his last four full seasons in the big leagues, he's averaged 15 wins with an ERA around 4.00. Of course, it's take him EIGHT years to produce four full seasons, but that's the kind of guy the Nats are going to get if they want to bid on a free agent pitcher. They're all going to be gambles so give it a shot. They might lose anyway to a winning team like the Twins, but go three years and see if he'll take it.

Posted by: baltova1 | December 28, 2010 9:57 AM | Report abuse

@baltova1: I'm an agnostic on the Derrek Lee vs. Adam LaRoche question, but Lee played this past year with a hand injury, which was operated on after the end of the season. A complete recovery is expected. (Yeah, isn't that what they usually say?) Anyway, that's one reason I'm an agnostic on the Lee vs. LaRoche question, after initially favoring LaRoche. I'd be happy if the Nats sign either of them, and frustrated if neither is signed.

Posted by: bertbkatz | December 28, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

BTW

Nationals right-hander Yunesky Maya was named the 2010 Dominican Winter League Pitcher of the Year, while outfielder Eury Perez was the DWL Rookie of the Year.

Maya, who made his Major League debut with Washington this past season, went 4-2 with a 1.32 ERA in eight games for Leones del Escogido. He struck out 42 batters in 41 innings.

Perez, who also played for Leones, went 40-for-116 [.345] with a league-best 21 stolen bases.

Posted by: hansenjo | December 28, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

>Oh well, even if the sock was filled with coal, at least he's consistent. God bless Tiny Tim & Brue, God bless everyone.

Posted by: BinM

Dude I don't make the rules. Marky "Jr." Lerner said we'd have something under the Xmas tree this year. Fill Wood said we'll have a first baseman by the end of the week. Btw, how'd that Brad Hawpe experiment work out, Pants? He was big on that a couple of weeks ago. And all the guy signed was a one-year deal. Here again, where would you rather be, San Diego or here? Or like Webb - Texas or here? Or like.. yeah whatever. I guess that frees up the aging and injured Lee to come here on a one-year deal (Pants is thinking about the future here, or maybe he's not), even though the guy has made $13 million/per the last 5 or so years. Which is exactly what Dunn signed for. Pants ain't an evil genius, he's just evil. Hire an adult, Marky Jr.!!! Hire an adult!!!!!!!

Posted by: Brue | December 28, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Rizzo wants athletes? How about this one?
Ivy League Rookie of the Year in both Baseball and Basketball. Ivy League Player of the Year as a freshman in basketball. Dropped 24 of North Carolina State in the NIT. Also scored 20 in Lawrence Kansas against the Jayhawks.

Graduated from his Ivy League university while playing minor league baseball. Completed his senior thesis, entitled "The Impact of Jackie Robinson and the Integration of Baseball on Racial Stereotypes in America: A Quantitative Content Analysis of Stories about Race in the New York Times" while commuting on minor league buses as a player for the Hickory Crawdads.

In 135 career MLB starts, pitched to a 3.80 ERA and a .220 BAA.
Been hurt much of the last 3 years.

I give you 6' 10" 280 lb free agent pitcher Chris Young.

Posted by: Sunderland | December 28, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

>Maya, who made his Major League debut with Washington this past season, went 4-2 with a 1.32 ERA in eight games for Leones del Escogido. He struck out 42 batters in 41 innings.

Perez, who also played for Leones, went 40-for-116 [.345] with a league-best 21 stolen bases.

Posted by: hansenjo

It's all that experienced junk the guys throws. He's got a bunch of pitches, and if you haven't seen him before, he's going to come out on top. Problem is, he doesn't throw anything hard. Slightly younger version of Livan. You saw how well that worked last year. I guess take another look at him, he's already signed. Maybe he won't be afraid to throw strikes this time.
Another thing, if Perez is AA material, and he lead the league, what does that say about the league itself?

Posted by: Brue | December 28, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

"Another thing, if Perez is AA material, and he lead the league, what does that say about the league itself?"

What it says is that it's a winter league, where established MLB players either do not play, or join their teams late in December to be around for the playoffs in January.

You expect it to be different? To have established MLB players finish their season in the US, play 3 more months of winter ball and then head to spring training?

Posted by: Sunderland | December 28, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

>You expect it to be different? To have established MLB players finish their season in the US, play 3 more months of winter ball and then head to spring training?

Posted by: Sunderland

Established players used to do that all the time, numbnuts. Usually for money.

Posted by: Brue | December 28, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Some more deep thinking from brue:

On Maya: "It's all that experienced junk the guys throws. He's got a bunch of pitches, and if you haven't seen him before, he's going to come out on top." Which explains why Maya did so well in September in the bigs, when the hitters got their first look at him. Oh, wait a minute...

As for your crack to Sunderland about winter ball: "Established players used to do that all the time...(I'll skip the insult)..." Yes, they did. They also used to wear flannel and go without batting helmets. What that has to do with modern baseball, I have no idea, brue.

Truth is, winter ball is probably something like AA-AAA ball. If Maya and Perez did well there, that's good news (probably more so for Maya, who presumably went there with the need to prove himself). How good? We find out in a couple of months.

Posted by: baltova1 | December 28, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Why has A. LaRoche been w/ every bad club and constantly moved around? Slumps in large chunks and an attitude? D.Lee makes more sense - short contract and better D. Bryce Harper in center field by September w/out injury or set-back. Chris Young is our best bet for pitching - Maya is 3A @ best right now. No matter how you look at it, our bottom feeding offense is worse than last year - so start looking hard at 3A @ 2A players this spring - can't be worse.

Posted by: artguydtd | December 29, 2010 7:25 AM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.




characters remaining

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company