RIP Anna Nicole Smith

Last September, On Balance ran an obituary honoring Ann Richards, the first female governor of Texas, mom of four, and a very tough, classy lady. Although I know some of you may argue with me, I think it's just as appropriate to honor another Texas native, Anna Nicole Smith, who died suddenly yesterday at age 39.

Ann Richards had the advantages of a stable and supportive family, in which she was an only child, and the benefit of an education from Baylor University. Anna Nicole Smith was born Vickie Lynn Hogan near Houston in 1967. She was one of six children born to a single mother. She dropped out of high school, married, gave birth to her son, Daniel, and divorced before she was 20 years old.

She left her son with her mother to gain a financial toehold by becoming a topless dancer. She made the cover of Playboy in 1992 and was Playmate of the Year in 1993. She came to mainstream national attention when she signed a lucrative contract with Guess Jeans, who suggested the "stage name" of Anna Nicole Smith. In 1994, 26-year-old Smith married 89-year-old oil tycoon J. Howard Marshall. She became an object of public fascination as we watched her gain weight, lose weight, allegedly battle drugs and alcohol, become embroiled in a lawsuit for millions when her husband died 14 months into the marriage, and most tragically, when her 20-year-old son Daniel died at her hospital bedside this past fall, three days after she gave birth to a daughter.

Her life has been tabloid fodder, striking contrast to Ann Richards' political achievements. But I've always admired her gutsy attitude, bootstrapping herself to financial security, even excess, using the most powerful tools she'd been given: her beauty, her audacious tenacity and her curvaceous bod. I like to think that if she and Ann Richards had traded circumstances at birth, the results might not have been so different. In their own ways, they both gave the establishment plenty of hell.

So think about it today: How would your life be different if you'd beem born as Vickie Lynn Hogan? Or as Ann Richards? What would you have done with their assets?

By Leslie Morgan Steiner |  February 9, 2007; 7:00 AM ET  | Category:  Free-for-All
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I don't think I want to be first. I'm almost ashamed to post here today.

Posted by: Loser | February 9, 2007 7:10 AM

It's Friday, can we talk about clothes again?

Posted by: pumpinMama | February 9, 2007 7:19 AM

Eeks Leslie, couldn't you pick a better person to write about. It is one thing to write a column about how your economic status at birth determines your destiny. But writing about Anna Nicole Smith is nuts. Please read past blogs from this week. People are giving you awesome topics to write about. Obviously her life would have been radically different if she was born into American privelege. She probably would not have been a topless dancer. But hey if she wasn't some kind of sex star, she probably would not have married Mr. $$$ bags. Enough said about her. I agree let's talk about clothes. I was curious about the person who said they buy their kids clothes on ebay. Do you buy them in a big lot? I found piece by piece shopping one ebay is really expensive when you factor in the shipping. I have only bought retired clothing items on ebay for my DD. I bought some beautiful dress like your doll American Girl dresses. They were very pricey. But I have not bought any regular clothing. I tend to shop clearance and sales. I buy a certain amount on clearance for the next year. Then I wait and buy the stuff on sale during the season. I also get LLBean coats and snow suits for free because I have the LLBean credit card. I do buy brand new shoes for DD. I get them at stride rite. I am very confused about the whole stride rite thing. All the parents seem to think you need these top quality shoes for good foot development. I have read that you absolutely want to buy new shoes (except maybe dress shoes or boots-things that are not worn very much). But now I am only trying to get stride rite for sneakers, summer sandals, and school shoes. The rest I get Target brand. What do you guys think?

Posted by: foamgnome | February 9, 2007 7:30 AM

I agree, let's talk about the clothes. Our motto has always been that if they don't have it at Target or the Thrift shop, then you probably don't need it anyway!

Seriously, my kids wear a lot of hand-me downs. Most of the clothing available in the US (rather than the Third World, where we lived previously) is good enough quality that it can last for two or even three kids quite easily. I've always put my kids in Target shoes and we've never had any problems. I read somewhere that with really hot, humid weather it's more important to change your shoes frequently than anything else. So I'll take several pairs of Target sandals, sneakers over just one pair of expensive shoes every time.

At what age did your kids start to notice what brand of clothing their friends were wearing and start objecting to cheap clothes, hand-me-downs, thrift shop and the like? My oldest is entering middle school and I'm not looking forward to seeing our clothing bills go up significantly. Is this a valid concern?

Posted by: Armchair mom | February 9, 2007 7:44 AM

Leslie, you've got to be kidding. The idea of using my brain cells to "compare and contrast Anna Nicole Smith and Ann Richards" is really unbelievable.

As for clothes, I grew up wearing hand-me-downs and didn't get "my own clothes" until I was in middle school. Back then kids didn't seem to get obsessed with labels until about that time (middle school) but I'm afraid today's kids (you know, 'tweens and all) may be aware much sooner.

Posted by: Vienna mom | February 9, 2007 7:51 AM

that she died so young. It seems her fame was due in part to the fact that she was such an easy target -- it was so easy to call her stupid, illiterate, trashy, drug-addled, etc. Watching her made some feel better about themselves. Unfortunately, she made herself (or allowed others to make her) into a caricature, and now that she's passed, I doubt she'll get the respect warranted a human being.

I don't think that it's fair to compare her to Ann Richards. Although I disagree with Leslie's approach to it, I do feel that there is some deeper comment to be made about her life and death and why either ever made the news. Just not sure what it is.

Posted by: sad | February 9, 2007 7:51 AM

To loser- two thumbs up to you for NOT posting a "First!" post. That was getting really old...

Posted by: loser2 | February 9, 2007 7:55 AM

foamgnome - I'm all about the Target shoes too. I know lots of people who are blowing $200 on shoes at Stride Rite for their kids. I think their feet will be fine.
I feel bad about Anna Nicole but don't think this is the place to discuss it. I was hoping for a better topic. Maybe I'll head over to On Parenting which is talking about kids and the internet today.

Posted by: moxiemom | February 9, 2007 7:56 AM

I think sad @7:51 hit the nail on the head: belittling Anna Nicole (and now the astronaut) could make us feel better about anything that is dysfunctional in our life in comparison.

Posted by: KLB SS MD | February 9, 2007 8:00 AM

Leslie - I think there are plenty of people who are born with very little who use their "assets" in a positive way...and the press needs to focus more on their cases rather than being sucked up into the celeb obsession, notably those who proceed to slowly kill themselves via drink, drugs or other unsavories.
I really am quite incredulous that you would make even a marginal comparison between Ann Richards and ANS in the same column. I know you can do better than that.
And no, I'm NOT going to talk about clothes in this blog!!!

Posted by: Christi | February 9, 2007 8:05 AM

This blog has officially jumped the shark.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 8:06 AM

Moxie- Already posted on On Parenting - a good topic! Speaking of topics - this one sucks. I have already had enough of the Anna Nicole Smith story and think her life was tragic. I don't really get the point of comparing her and Ann Richards - sounds like Leslie is trying to stir up class envy.

We are all products of our circumstances and environment and there are some excellent examples of women that have overcome both. Unfortunately I do not think ANS is one of them.

One good thing about the ANS story is that it knocked the Astronaut Diaper off the headlines.

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 8:06 AM

I actually have always liked Anna Nicole Smith. I remember sitting in high school with all my friends reading Cosmo magazine and seeing her in the Guess ads. She wasn't stick skinny and she was beautiful.

I am sure that people won't agree with me, but I have known girls who strip to feed their kids and I respect some of them because they do whatever it takes to ensure that their kids are taken care of. She was outrages, but so are a lot of other TV personalities, including a lot of men.Yes, she may have been something different if she had been born to a privileged family, but who can say for sure if she would have been any better and what is better anyway?

I also felt sorry for her when her ex husband's kids fought her for the money. It was his money and he should have been able to do with it whatever he wanted. I mean who really had no class in that matter? Fighting over half like a gazillion dollars? More money than anyone person or family could ever spend anyway.

I feel bad for her little girl and hope that the issue of her paternity is resolved as soon as possible.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 8:10 AM

I can't think of a bigger waste of our journalism resources than another ANS article. For someone whose only talent was disrobing and marrying wealth, this is way too much coverage.

Last night this was on the CBS, NBC and ABC national news.
Then Headline News, 8-10 on CNN, even Faux Noise.

Isn't there a war going on?
Don't we have Americans without health insurance?
Don't we have immigration / educational / environmental issues?
....and on and on and on

Posted by: Enough ANS | February 9, 2007 8:14 AM

I am surprised with some of the comments written here today. This mother has died and her infant daughter will never know her. It will take a very strong person to show this child the best of her mother and to focus her on her mother's strenghts. Hopefully that person, or people, will help her through the nasty, childish comments that people will probably always make about her mother.

These nasty, vindictive comments are a representation of the weaknesses that you have - and that your children have to live with. Just think a little today, be glad you are healthy and alive. Say a prayer for Anna Nicole and her baby girl.

Posted by: older mom | February 9, 2007 8:14 AM

If I was born Vickie Lee Hogan, I think I'd probably be dead at 39 after years of having lived an incredibly reckless self-indulgent, and intermittently fun, party lifestyle.

Just a wild guess, of course.

Posted by: Joe | February 9, 2007 8:15 AM

Re: kids shoes

My kids are really hard on shoes now that they are older. We shop at Marshalls and TJ Maxx for shoes - it takes more time because you never know what they have in stock, but we got Merrell leather hiking shoes/boots for this winter at Marshalls for 24.99$. We have found incredible deals on Stride Rite at Marshalls - 50$ shoes for 15$ - you just have to be persistent. And it is last year's fashion - like my kids would even know!

If we need special occasion shoes we go to Target or the shoe store where you Buy one get one free (can't remember the name of it!) since they have a constant supply and we are always running out at the last minute.

Curious to see if the blog coup over ANS and AR sticks.

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 8:15 AM

Are you kidding? How is this a topic about balance???

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 8:15 AM

Say a prayer for Anna Nicole and her baby girl.

Posted by: older mom | February 9, 2007 08:14 AM

Just because someone thinks ANS lead a tragic life and does not want to participate in the unseemly glorification of her troubled life does not mean that they don't have sympathy for the baby or her family.

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 8:19 AM

Why do you admire her for using "her beauty, her audacious tenacity and her curvaceous bod"...and yet I (a male) might be a pig for appreciating her use of her beauty and curves? Hello, Feminist Union Local 101? Please come and take Leslie's card back.

Posted by: Caveman | February 9, 2007 8:22 AM

It's ridiculous even to put Ann Richards and Anna Nicole Smith in the same sentence (unless there's a "not" in the middle). I just don't see a willingness to do anything for fame and fortune as a character trait to be admired. As several others have said, I know a lot of people who grew up with nothing and who managed to succeed without sacrificing their dignity or (God forbid) morals. Are we really going to compare Ann Richards to someone who succeeded only because she was pretty and willing to take off her clothes? Yeah, there's a role model I want my daughter to emulate.

The one I feel sorry for in this whole affair is the poor little baby -- two men apparently fighting NOT to be her father, and now no mother. I hope that some loving relative steps up to give the girl the stability and love she is going to need -- and over time, show her a more nuanced view of her mother than she is ever going to get from all of the media reports.

Posted by: Laura | February 9, 2007 8:25 AM

I'm still traumatised from wearing too many Goodwill clothes as a child. I must have new clothes for myself. I would definitely buy new clothes for kids at least by middle school. Middle school is hard enough without additional fodder for teasing/tormenting. That said, my kids wear plenty of thrift store clothes and hand-me-downs. New stuff usually comes from Target or JC Penney. Shoes from Target or Payless. My kids are young and at this point it makes little difference to them so I'll get away with this while I can.

Posted by: Rockville Mom | February 9, 2007 8:30 AM

I agree with Older Mom. How easy it is for some of us to belittle this woman! Do we need to do this to make ourselves feel better or superior? It sure seems that way.

Sure, she is an easy target and I was by no means a fan. However, none of us are perfect. Our imperfections are, luckily, not in the tabloids and followed by cameras.

This woman made some bad choices. However, I find her life sort of tragic and somewhat predetermined. I was by no means surprised that she died young.

Sometimes one bad decision leads to another. In her case, she made many including her drug use. Would things have been different for her with a different early childhood? With different decisions in early adulthood? Without the bloodsucking leaches in the entertainment industry who pushed her and made a killing off her looks and name? We'll never know. All I know is that there is now a little baby who will never know her mother and who is now left to the mercy of the courts and two men fighting over paternity. That alone makes this a tragic story.

Posted by: JS | February 9, 2007 8:34 AM

Anna Nicole was larger than life in many ways. But we've all been voyeristically watching the human train wreck of her life. Its tragic, and its news because of our obsession with sex, money and celebrity. The crass paternity battle will be tough to watch. One article mentioned that DNA will be collected to establish paternity of the daughter. Is the paternity battle really over the best interests of that child, or the financial spoils to be gained? Rest in peace, Anna Nicole.

Posted by: Sad | February 9, 2007 8:35 AM

The one I feel sorry for in this whole affair is the poor little baby -- two men apparently fighting NOT to be her father, and now no mother.

Nope, they are both fighting to be the father. They both want her. I also expect that if neither one of them are the father, that a whole lot of people will want her. It is really sad.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 8:37 AM

Umm, they are actually fighting TO BE that child's father. Not to "not be her father."

And to the rest of you who are questioning how this is related to balance, etc. -- go elsewhere for the day if you don't like it.

Posted by: TO Laura | February 9, 2007 8:38 AM

I did not say "First" today because there is no way I would want to say "First" to this ridiculous subject.

Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse.

Posted by: First Comment | February 9, 2007 8:41 AM

Thanks Leslie, that was a refreshing take on the Anna death. I like your comparison with Ann. Anna did a lot with what she had and I'm sorry she left us when she did. I'm sure the tabloids are sorry too.
I also guess I'm in the minority but I don't think Anna is beautiful. I think if you stripped off all the makeup you'd find a very ordinary woman. Her daughter is a cutie and I hope she doesn't suffer too much over this.

Posted by: questionauthority | February 9, 2007 8:41 AM

To all of you "highbrow" readers who think her death is not newsworthy... get over yourselves. I used to work in the news business, and I actually had people call me last night thinking I might have inside info about what happened - and I don't even work in the business anymore. This is a major headline. Stop acting like this is above you. This is making headlines around the world. My jaw dropped when I first heard about it.

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 8:45 AM

"Anna Nicole was larger than life in many ways"

They're called saline implants.

Posted by: to Sad | February 9, 2007 8:46 AM

For those of you in the pity party for the self-directed choices of ANS, better spend your energy on a real humanitarian crisis like Darfur.

It reminds me of the meaningless memorials put up whenever someone dies in a fire, shooting etc.

People have to idneitfy with something public to give their lives meaning.

Posted by: No More ANS | February 9, 2007 8:48 AM

But we've all been voyeristically watching

No, some of us are just not plain interested!

To all of you "highbrow" readers who think her death is not newsworthy... get over yourselves. I used to work in the news business, and I actually had people call me last night

Then, your callers life are as just as shallow and pityful as ANS life seemed to be.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 8:49 AM

Hey "First Comment", you didn't say "first" first since you weren't first. I was the loser that was first. I opted not to say "first" first since I didn't want to play that game. Don't be claiming you chose not to say "first" first. You dind't have the option as I was first. HA! (I think)

Posted by: Loser | February 9, 2007 8:49 AM

I had a dream last night that Leslie would be posting something about ANS. In my dream, I chose not to be "first".

Posted by: First Comment | February 9, 2007 8:51 AM

Where is Anna Nicole's baby? Who's caring for her right now?

Posted by: Question... | February 9, 2007 8:53 AM

I let DD wear hand me downs too. A good friend has a daughter exactly one year older then mine. She passes a great number of things to her. But as the girls get older I notice it is mostly play type clothes and casual dresses. I think she sends her nicer stuff to another friend who is a single mother. That is cool. That is good to know about the shoes. Maybe it is upper middle class suburbia but all I hear is she must have stride rite. I get holiday and church shoes at Target and boots there too. I looked a thrift store and I thought there stuff was just crap. Can you guys give names and locations of good thrift stores. Also I think those big consignment sales and shops suck. You can get brand new stuff on sale or on clearance for better prices. I do go to my church garage sale in June (Grace Church Alexandria). They let you buy a bag for $10. You can stuff anything you want in the bag. You will get no less then 15 items in your bag. So less then a $1 an item. I went last June and got a lot of spring and summer pjs, 3 pairs of Osh Kosh over alls, one dress and a pair of pants. I could have fit more in the bag but I figure I could just go next year. I figure if she even wears each item once, I got my moneys worth. She actually wore a little dress like 4 times and the overalls and pjs get worn all the time. But I like JCPenny Okie Dokie brand. Shorts and coordinating shirts for $5 each. The colors fade during the season but that doesn't bother me. I figure if it gets stained or fades, it gets passed down as play clothes for the next child. Since the adoption may fail, we may just be passing all these clothes down to someone else anyway. I also like Target and Toys R Us (Kids R Us) clothing. I find decent sales there. I get a shirt and capri pants for $10. Can't beat that.

Posted by: foamgnome | February 9, 2007 8:53 AM

Anna Nicole Smith....what's not to admire? She came from nothing and turned it into millions. More than I've been able to do...I came from a little something and only managed to turn it into a little somthing more. I've never taken off my clothes for money, but I sure would for millions. C'mon, wouldn't you?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 8:54 AM

Well, I'm sorry for her family, but honestly, what did she do with her time and money that would recommend her to this coloumn? Seriously, did she help raise money for some charity or another? Donate? Give time?

About clothes...Kohl's sales and Lands End (overstock in particular). Great stuff. Never overlook thrift stores and consigment shops though. More great stuff! I can recall as a kid going to the Amvets on Georgia Ave in DC and my parents spending $100 for a family of four. For a year's worth of clothes.

Posted by: MdMother | February 9, 2007 8:54 AM

...were Anna Nicole Smith, I'd respond here incoherently.

...were Ann Richards, I'd use my political power to make Leslie pick a topic that didn't leave my head scratching....though I would admire the opportunistic choice of the topic that put the blog as a featured item and out of the harder-to-read blog listing...

Posted by: If I... | February 9, 2007 8:56 AM

Seriously, did she help raise money for some charity or another? Donate? Give time?

I don't know, but then again, I don't want to. You are suppossed to do things for charity without people knowing. Morals right!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 9:00 AM

RIP ANS. And to answer your question, yes, I did like your body.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 9:02 AM

...who truly is a neat woman is Oprah Winfrey. She went from nothing (had an extremely tough childhood), to making billions. She never got married, never had kids. But she's devoted herself to helping children from all over the world. She opened a school for girls in Africa. Today's show is how she's rescuing children from slavery. Talk about someone who earned her fame and fortune...and is using it to do an enormous amount of good in the world! When she dies, she's not going to leave a bunch of unfinished lawsuits behind...what she is going to leave behind is a lot of people whose lives have been greatly improved because of her efforts.

Posted by: You know... | February 9, 2007 9:04 AM

So, what did ANS try to balance in her life? Being a working mom while trying to keep her dealer employed? Sure it's a shame that her Daughter will now grow up not knowing her mother or who her father is.(Unless they actually do find it via paternity tests).

The Daughter might actually be the winner out of all of this. As tragic as that may sound, growing up in the ANS environment is probably not the best place to be.

Posted by: Joe D. | February 9, 2007 9:05 AM

Scarry, you said it best at 8:10. She was beautiful without being anorexic. She got caught up in the celebrity lifestyle and did not take care of herself. Drug and alcohol addiction is a sickness. It is a shame that she didn't have closer network of friends and family to convince her to get help. Her life was as valuable as the rest of ours. It's just a shame that she didn't realize it.

But there is a difference between Ann Richards and Anna Nicole Smith. One was a role model and the other was not.

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 9:06 AM

You are suppossed to do things for charity without people knowing.

Actually, many charities want celebrities, actors, etc. to participate AND use their names and faces to help raise funding. Jerry Lewis ring any bells? I'm having a senior moment, who is the brunette actress who fund-raises for St. Jude's hospitals?

Carolyn Hax does it for ALS (admittedly she's not tabloid-fodder, but she is a name many of use recognize), just as a local example.

Posted by: MdMother | February 9, 2007 9:07 AM

I agree with Leslie. The villification of Anna Nicole Smith usually comes from self-righteous and smug people who are uncomfortable with several things, but ANS's beginnings are at the root.
Remember the "documentary" on her life shown by HBO a few years ago? I forget the title, but it was narrated by that nebbishy actor Macy. One shot in particular struck me as representative of the whole film: some of ANS's younger relatives (I mean CHILDREN, three years old for God's sake) are playing in the yard. The family's trash receptacle, with the word TRASH in big letters, is included in the shot, which is unnarrated and on-screen for a solid minute. I can imagine the chortling at the studio and in a lot of American living rooms at the not-so-subtle comment. The same people who were uncomfortable with a large, beautiful, poor woman who made it to the top (in some ways at least)are also the ones who would call a three-year-old trash.
Let's face it: many women wanted to be Anna, many men wanted to be with her. RIP

Posted by: jayman | February 9, 2007 9:07 AM

Holy cow!!! 39 posts without mentioning Iraq. Friggin amazing for washingtonpost.com

Regardless of the trainwreck that her life was, and it was a trainwreck, there is now a 6 month old baby without a mother and two shady men who seek to become her "father" - more for the wealth potential available from ANS's estate.

They want to be her father, not her dad. There's a big difference...

Posted by: Wow... | February 9, 2007 9:08 AM

I agree. I wouldn't want to be Anna Nicole Smith or Ann Richards...I'd want to be someone like Oprah Winfrey. I wish I had the resources she does...to do so much good in the world. Right now, balancing work and motherhood takes up my time. But at some point in my life...I'm going to devote myself to helping people who didn't have things as easy as I do. And for how "tough" it is to balance...I really do have it easy. Seeing someone like Anna Nicole Smith makes me appreciate my non-celebrity, grounded lifestyle.

Posted by: to: you know | February 9, 2007 9:09 AM

Well, she spun gold with her tits. (ANS, Ann Richards used her brains to benefit more than just her own bank account.)

It's a shame she's dead, rather than successfully rehabilitated and raising her daughter to be more than a pole-dancer. If there is a heaven, I certainly hope she is reunited with her son.

Other than that, she certainly isn't someone I want MY daughter to emulate, or my son to find admirable!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 9:11 AM

If other chatters haven't had the chance yet this morning, I hope you'll all take a minute to read Father of 4's post at 10:30 last night, the final post of the day. While he avoided sentimentality, he moved me to tears.

And, to Fo4, we're still thinking warmly about you and your family.

Posted by: catlady | February 9, 2007 9:11 AM

Oh, and about clothes. I buy expensive stuff (like designer jeans and purses) on eBay because they are always much cheaper (you just have to know how to spot fakes). Regular clothes are often more expensive if you buy them individually on eBay. I hate buying lots because there is always some stuff that I don't want that I just give away.

Work clothes I get on sale at department stores or online store sales (J Crew). Everyday clothes I get at Old Navy or Target.

I almost always buy shoes online. The trick, of course, is trying them on in the store (same with designer jeans) and then finding the right style and size on eBay or Overstock.

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 9:11 AM

How do you find time in a busy life of working and raising a family to follow the passions of your life...like Oprah has...and donate your time to making other people's lives better. Frankly, I haven't been able to find the time (but I would like to).

Posted by: That's a good question... | February 9, 2007 9:13 AM

Oprah also had to battle racism. ANS never even faced that problem.

Posted by: another to You know... | February 9, 2007 9:13 AM

That's a good point, Oprah did have to fight racism. And she's actually paved the way for blacks, and black women in particular, to shine in the spotlight. Isn't she one of the richest people in America?

Posted by: To 9:13... | February 9, 2007 9:15 AM

I find it incredible that all the tabloids, CNN, many blogs were after Anna Nicole Smith while she was alive, never even allowed her son's death in peace are saying RIP now and running obituaries! DUH!

If we let people live their however-pathetic lives in peace, they probably would live longer.

Posted by: Reston | February 9, 2007 9:15 AM

ANS was a blond with big breasts - she had to battle that. She never gave us a chance to see any true intelligence.

Posted by: DC lurker | February 9, 2007 9:16 AM

I wonder why she never had kids????? Does anyone know?

Posted by: About Oprah... | February 9, 2007 9:16 AM

Oprah never got married. Is she still dating Stedman (sp?)...?

Posted by: Also... | February 9, 2007 9:17 AM

Anna Nicole Smith came from nothing. The astronaut had advantages, intelligence, education, and opportunities. They both self-destructed.

Some people are who they are because of their backgrounds. Some are who they are in spite of their backgrounds.

Keep this in mind while parenting. We all try to do our best by our kids, but there are no guarantees.

Posted by: Amazing | February 9, 2007 9:20 AM

Did Leslie comment when another large-boned Texas woman, Molly Ivins, died recently? Of course, the only thing we knew about Molly's breasts was that there was cancer in them.

Posted by: Comparing Ann Richards | February 9, 2007 9:21 AM

As many have said here, Anna Nicole Smith led a dramatically unbalanced life. But like Ann Richards, she was ambitious and driven, in her own way. A young mom trying to make a better life for herself (maybe not everyone's defintion of "better"). Yes, she was trashy and troubled.

But I don't think it's fair to be so judgmental and elitist looking down on her.

To me, her life is an example of someone with very few advantages, saddled with motherhood long before she was ready, who had very few people help her out. There is a lot to be learned from her successes and of course her failures. Sometimes you can learn more from someone who has failed than someone who has succeeded.

And of course, bring on the clothes! It's Friday!

Posted by: Leslie | February 9, 2007 9:22 AM

Good point jayman. It's not easy being called white trash. I agree that with her drug use she is not a role model in the conventional sense of the word.

However, I get annoyed when people say that women shouldn't do this or that with their body. I mean if one girl is born really smart and she turns out to be an engineer and the other girl is born beautiful and charismatic, why can't they both use the skills they have to make the best life possible for them and their kids?

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 9:23 AM

Oprah did have a son when she was 14 or 15. She didn't know who the father was, and the baby boy died shortly after birth.

I remember knowing about this for a long time, but a lot of people are just finding out.

Posted by: Lou | February 9, 2007 9:23 AM

>>>

That's so sad!

Posted by: Yikes... | February 9, 2007 9:24 AM

Ditto that yesterday's late pm posts are really worth reading. Good luck getting through this Fo4. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just be there, which clearly you already know.

Posted by: Leslie | February 9, 2007 9:26 AM

I just feel sorry for ANS's daughter. I hope she is well taken-care of by whomever ends up with her in the end.

I kind of feel like if I don't buy my family's clothes at a thrift store, e-bay, Target, or a discount store, I shouldn't be posting about where I get them, LOL! :-)

Posted by: PLS | February 9, 2007 9:27 AM

ANS rose above her station in the only way she knew how. She wasn't a rocket scientist, or a doctor, or a journalist. She did what she could in this rather mixed up world we live in. Sometimes things worked out, sometimes they didn't. But the woman tried to be something, even if it was only a blonde bombshell startlet. She wanted that, and she succeeded.

I think that's what a lot of posters here are upset about. Her success. She aimed for a target (a low one to be honest) and got there, unlike some of the spiteful people on this board. So she was a blonde with big breasts. She was a successful blonde with big breasts, more so than the other blonde stacked women I see on the subway and walking down the street in many towns across America.

And it is a fine topic to talk about on this blog. Clue-by-four to the NPR listening, latte drinkers, whine about clothes folks: pretty poor women have children and balance issues too. Pretty rich women have children and balance issues too. Movie stars and famous people have children and balance issues.

Thanks Leslie for bringing this up.

Posted by: Bob | February 9, 2007 9:27 AM

"It doesn't matter who you are or where you're from, the ability to triumph begins with you."

Oprah Winfrey

Posted by: A Quote... | February 9, 2007 9:28 AM

Oprah did have a son when she was 14 or 15. She didn't know who the father was, and the baby boy died shortly after birth.........

Who gets to define trashy? Is it okay for oprah to make a mistake and no one else. I could care less what Oprah did when she was 14 years old, she is helping people now.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 9:28 AM

I think the reason Oprah got pregnant so young is that she was sexually abused. She probably didn't consent to the sex.

Posted by: TO: Scarry | February 9, 2007 9:30 AM

Wow there's a lot of uppity people in your readership. I think this was an interesting and provocative post you wrote, and it's a shame that so many apparently well-educated people have so little imagination to be thoughtful about what you are trying to explore here.

I think the biggest difference between the two women is how they diverged on one key point. They both had their problems with drinking or substances. They both had their demons. But Ann Richards never let anyone get in her way. It seems like she may have sweat the small things, and that might have been what made her drink. But on the big things, she was undaunted. And she learned over time that the people closest to her, who loved her, were her greatest treasure. Anna Nicole seemed to be slowly eclipsed by the life she grabbed onto, and the coniving users who latched onto her in the process. And it seems that when the tide rose over her son's head, she just gave up and sunk below it, too. She also seemed to have given up on the one woman who loved her for everything but her money and her looks -- her mom. That's the part of this that is so sad. All that beauty and wile couldn't protect her.

Anyway - I appreciated the posting.

Posted by: Kevin | February 9, 2007 9:32 AM

It seems as tho the rich celebrity women have a bit more to deal with in order to achieve balance. Sure they have nannies, drivers, housekeepers, etc to take care of the mundane daily chores but their children and spouses need the same love and attention that a spouse of child of a woman with a regular 9-5 job needs. I bet it is difficult to do with the paparazzi following them everywhere.

Posted by: KLB SS MD | February 9, 2007 9:33 AM

I am actually angry at Anna Nicole Smith. I never liked her -- if anyone has ever seen her on TV, it's clear that she has some sort of problem (drug addiction is my guess . . . I am guessing prescription). And instead of getting help, she's been using it to keep herself in the news.

She may have started stripping as a way to earn money to support her child, but my guess is that she got where she is/was today because she wanted to be a celebrity . . . plain and simple. No balance -- or sacrificing for her children-- to it. Look at the nonsense that brought her into the tabloids. These are not things you do to help you better raise a child.

The reason I am mad, though, is that she has a new baby who will go through the pain of never knowing her mother. I was mad when she got pregnant and had a child to begin with, since she's obviously not ready to be a good parent. But now she's gone . . . I can't help thinking it has something to do with her lifestyle . . . and that child will suffer, just like her son did.

So call me insensitive, but not everyone should be "honored" simply because they died. She was a selfish, greedy, attention-hungry woman. She was a tragic figure who needed help, and I am sure there are sad tales behind why she became who she was. HOWEVER, when there's a child in the story , it's time to get over your sob story and be an adult. Much more tragic are those folks born into poverty who must struggle everyday just to make ends meet so that they can give a good life to their children.

So I say good riddance. I hope that the baby has a good life with someone who can provide for her and be a better role model. Hopefully she (and we) won't be subjected to years of legal battles over who the father is . . .

Posted by: This is ridiculous | February 9, 2007 9:34 AM

you have got to be kidding me. Anna Nicole Smith = Ann Richards?
Not to mention, where's the element of balance here? She balanced being a stripper with being a gold digger?
I think I'm all done with this blog.

Posted by: whatev | February 9, 2007 9:35 AM

Kevin, very thoughtful posting.

About the clothes, for all the tall women out there. Did you know that both Gap and Banana Republic make tall sizes, and not just for pants? You can buy tall sweaters and tee shirts and -gasp- oxford shirts! I just found this out. Goodbye J Crew and hello BR!

I wonder if the outlets carry the tall sizes...

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 9:37 AM

Scarry - I didn't call her trashy. Someone asked why she never had children and I just stated that she did.

Posted by: Lou | February 9, 2007 9:39 AM

I think the reason Oprah got pregnant so young is that she was sexually abused. She probably didn't consent to the sex.

Sure, she is a saint.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 9:41 AM

Loretta Lynn and Dolly Parton came from impoverished backgrounds, that some might call white trash, though I wouldn't. Loretta was married with 4 babies by age 18 (the twins came later). Dolly was 1 of 12 kids, though at least she graduated HS. Both not only became artistic and financial successes (and Dolly's boobs speak for themselves!), but are better role models than Anna Nicole. Dolly has given back generously to her community through her Dollywood Foundation, too.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 9:42 AM

Not that I am cynical but I smell a topic chosen today to yield over 500 comments.

And yes, I am a contributor to it. Snarkfest!

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 9:42 AM

off-topic alert - clothes off of ebay.

foamgnome, I'm the one that gets all of our kids' clothing, pre-loved, including shoes for our daughter, on ebay. It's more difficult to find quality, used clothing for boys than it is for girls because many parents don't take care of their sons' clothes like they do their daughters' clothes. Not impossible, but I tend to buy from the same 4 or 5 sellers all the time and not waste my time on sellers with whom I'm not familiar.

For girls, there are many moms (yup, they're mostly moms in this category) who purchase top dollar european and south african outfits, plus matching shoes, and whose kids have so many clothes, they barely wear each outfit twice. Find a seller whose kids are a year ahead of yours developmentally, bid on several outfits at once and save on shipping. I buy nothing new or nwot. I don't buy mismatched lots. I buy 2 or 3 auction items at a time from a single seller to save on shipping. I buy from moms who overbuy for their kids complete outfits, plus matching hair accessories and shoes, at retail, then sell it the next year to me. I probably pay 15 - 10% of retail, even with shipping. Pre-loved euro brand shoes (Naturino, primigi, pom d'api etc.) fit my daughter's feet better than Stride Rite, which I find to be really inconsistent in its sizing. "Slightly used" is different from having toe marks on the inside from excessive wear.

probably way too much information for this topic, but it works for us, saves big $$, and my daughter's clothes wear better and longer than if we purchased at retail.

Something else to consider. Individual sellers of pre-loved kids clothing often have information posted about themselves on their "about me" page, including whether they are stay-at-home moms. When I purchase items on ebay from a SAH mom who is able to stay at home, in part, because of our collective ebay purchases, it's one way of helping other women make choices that are right for them and for their families. It just feels good. Off of soapbox now.

Posted by: NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 9:43 AM

I thought what you wrote was well done and offered a perspective not on Anna vs. Ann but on life and what we must do to survive and how sometimes we give up.

Thank you for a measured analysis and thoughts to consider. It appears the entitled moms and over indulgent parents are having a field day standing on Anna's grave. Who would have guessed the rich, privileged, etc would kick a corpse just to look taller. NOT when you believe you are righteous and entitled what the heck kick the easy targets. And they offer faint praise for her newborn daughter. I bet if Anna's daughter was blonde and a C cup they'll kick her too, even if she made it to the Supreme Court... as a justice.

Small people looking tall on a corpse way to go America.

Posted by: NYC | February 9, 2007 9:43 AM

ANS was successful in what she did despite the lack of balance in some aspects of her life. Otherwise, why are we discussing her? (Though some prefer discussing designer togs for children.)

I think some of the backlash against her comes from people's disapproval of her overt sexuality. Not everyone has to use his or her brain to achieve financial success. ANS may have figured out how she could profit and used her assets.

Posted by: footloose and child-free | February 9, 2007 9:45 AM

Thanks for the tip to read the late night postings by Fo4.

I was stunned by ANS death, but more hurt by the loss sustained by Fo4. I would recognize one by sight, but I recognize the other by his words. There is irony here.

To me, it isn't the comparison of AR and ANS that is important. Neither really impacted my life, though I would rather be like AR than ANS. More importantly, I learn from Fo4's words. I learn perspective.

Posted by: dotted | February 9, 2007 9:47 AM

Lou my comment wasn't directed at you or anyone in general. I just think it is a slippery slope when we start saying words like "morals" "trashy" etc.

I think Leslie was actually the one who said the word trashy.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 9:47 AM

I agree with you Leslie. She pulled herself up by any legal means that she had. If you grow up in squalor its hard to have refinement, but if you keep working and utilizing what you have in life then you find success eventually. Unfortunately the pain that she had probably caused her to imbibe in drugs and who hasn't used that recourse sometimes to cure what ails us. She wasn't perfect. Her hometown isn't crazy about her. But in a way she was uniquely American. We aren't a nation of perfection, but we are a nation of strivers. That is why so many come here -- for that chance, that opportunity to get ahead. RIP Anna.

Posted by: Falls Church | February 9, 2007 9:48 AM

As for the comments about how we shouldn't be judging ANS -- this reminds me of celebrities getting angry because people ask for their autographs. ANS was popular SPECIFICALLY because she played up being trashy. I think she knew exactly what she was doing in behaving the way she did. Who does a reality show that essentially about what a freak you are, without realizing that's why it would be popular? So I feel no remorse for looking down on her . . . she behaved the way she did to get attention. That behavior makes me crazy -- I just hope I can shield my daughter from these ridiculous role models (ANS, Paris Hilton, Britney) when she is a teenager. . .And again, if she wanted to be trashy, that's fine. But when it's jeapordizing the well-being of her children, it's NOT fine. If she were poor, her daughter would have been taken awa from her by CPS from the start. Ridiculous.

Wow am I judgmental today!

Posted by: This is ridiculous | February 9, 2007 9:52 AM

So how was she successful? She had money...So money=Successful? Obviously, money could not buy happiness. So why bother?

Posted by: Joe D. | February 9, 2007 9:54 AM

This is SO tragic. Tragic. You are all so heartless...

:(

She was someone's drug-addled, tasteless mother and someone else's neglected daughter!!! (ANNA was one of 6 children: her own mother simply didn't have the understanding about birth control and why should she have....)

When any human dies, no matter how despicable, useless, and selfish a piece of horse sh*t she was, is a time for us, yes, ALL of us, to come together as knuckledragging primates and note that we are all special as humans.

It's OUR planet; we ARE it! It's all about us. You LOSERS who care for vanishing species and the environment (yuk...) need to look into your hearts and remember, God (yes, He is magnificent) created a spark of ..... something in all of us.

Posted by: Bonehead | February 9, 2007 9:55 AM

I think many of us are baffled, given the many suggestions of balance related topics posted in the last 8 - 10 days, that, instead we are talking about a celebrity death. Tragic, yes, but not related to balance. At the time of ANS's death, her infant daughter was in the Bahamas while ANS partied.

A more appropriate topic, and one that's been brought home to this blog in the last 24 hours again, is how to cope and best assist your kids in coping with terminal illness of a parent or close relative. Leslie has said before that she dumbs everything down to a simplistic level for her kids. Does that approach work for an 8 year old, a 12 year old, 17?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 9:59 AM

Anna's life was a sad commentary on our celebrity fueled obsession. I can't help but think sadly that her baby is better off without a media circus mother. That is what I think did in her son. She is a warning to all young women who just think that beauty and fame is the ticket to a great life.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 10:01 AM

Well, Texas lost another fab woman within the last week -- Molly Ivans. Why not chat about her? Or the first African American female West Point Officer killed in Irag; or....almost anybody else.

Nicole Smith -- sorry, can't do it. Sad story; not worth more than a second of attention.

Posted by: anon xx | February 9, 2007 10:02 AM

She had an available public school education and dropped out in 9th grade. A victim.

She had preternatural good looks. A victim again.

She married a 17 yr old fry cook and divorced him after a year, first getting pregnant. He done her wrong.

She stripped for $ and was taken advantage of. Men used her.

She married an 89 yr. old man for 500,000,000 and his heirs litigated her. She was taken by the system.

Can't you understand she was a blameless waif, used and discarded; a candle in the wind; OUR own neurotic angst-ridden Lady Di??? a brief burst of shining light???!! a shooting star. Marilyn?

You're heartless, the lot of you.

Posted by: Nancy Reagan | February 9, 2007 10:05 AM

Yep, real feministic of you- Admire the gold digger who posed in playboy, a magazine seemingly devoted to the objectification of the female body. I thought you would rally the masses against such a person! Yep, and guys get called pigs for stuff like this, but when a woman does it she gets praise?
As someone who grew up on foodstamps under a single disabled mom, worked hard in school to get scholarships, was the pilot the first time he EVER set foot in a plane, presented a project at NASA on food irradiation as a means to increase supply and put a dent in world hunger at the age of 16, served his country for 3 years, ran 3/4 mile with a hole in his lung not because of a bullet, but because the Air Force had him working international security issues in a moldy basement, as someone who suggested through proper channels an improvement in gate security that would have prevented the insurgents from getting access to a military facility and killing Americans who was not listened to, as someone made a stand for right against a corrupt SES but ultimately lost the battle and uniform because it was easier for officials to sweep his complaints under the rug than expose a high-level bad guy or two, yet stayed positive and determined not to give up and worked to get a better civilian career in International Security, I am sickened that this gold digger is idolized as what human beings should strive to be like. Well, so much for posting humorous rhymes. I mourn the fall of the astronaut- a true national icon, more than this. I am sorry for the death of someone so young, but do not feel we should describe her behavior as exemplary. We now return to our regularly scheduled sarcasm.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 10:08 AM

Chris, I'm with you.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:14 AM

instead we are talking about a celebrity death

Ehhh, that would be a pseudo - celebrity.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 10:14 AM

scarry, how's your niece doing?

Posted by: NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 10:18 AM

"I think that's what a lot of posters here are upset about. Her success."

Rant warning.

No, actually, I'm not upset at her "success." Honestly, I never paid attention to her at all, other than the reports that come across the news as I'm driving to work.

What is upsetting is the idea that we should admire her desire to "succeed," despite the fact that she was apparently willing to do literally anything to achieve her fame and fortune. That epitomizes one of the things that really bothers me about our society, where being rich and famous is the goal in and of itself, instead of something earned as a byproduct of years of hard, productive work; and where simply having that goal justifies anything that must be done to achieve it. Well, you know what? Machiavelli was wrong. Success at any price is no success at all.

And why is it ok for ANS to have stripped her way to the top when it would never be ok for someone from a wealthier background? As Leslie says, "her life is an example of someone with very few advantages, saddled with motherhood long before she was ready, who had very few people help her out." So, what, all we can expect from "people like that" is that they take their clothes off for money? Because people can never "rise above their raisin'?" How very patronizing. Give me a break -- my mother was married at 18, pregnant at 19, divorced at 23, no help, no support. And yet she managed to support both of us, earn a Ph.D, and work 60+ hrs a week to achieve economic stability, career success, and a rewarding life -- without ever once resorting to taking her clothes off.

ANS chose to strip and marry for money -- two things that I sincerely doubt Leslie approves of (or most people here, as a matter of fact). But for ANS, what, we'll make an exception? Because she was "only" poor white trash, so how could we expect someone like that to know any better or find any other way to escape poverty?

Don't get me wrong -- I will gladly cut people slack for decisions or mistakes they make in trying to achieve success -- especially when they come from hardship. If someone strips to put herself through school, and goes on to lead a productive, useful life, I'm not going to judge and criticize her for it -- I understand that sometimes, you do what you have to do. But I'm also not going to venerate her decision, or hold her up as someone to be admired BECAUSE of that choice -- just because you have to do something doesn't mean you should be proud of it or praised for it.

I think it's flatly ridiculous to compare someone like ANS to true women of substance and achievement, like Ann Richards (or Molly Ivins, or Oprah, etc.). I strongly disagree that drive and ambition alone is such an admirable character trait that it outweighs other considerations, such as the standards to which she held herself, the goal to which she aspired (i.e., personal fame and fortune), and how she chose to use all that fame and fortune when she got it. There are many, many stories out there of women who have succeeded against tremendous odds, who did so without lowering their standards, and who then used their power in productive ways once they achieved it. I just see nothing to admire here.

Posted by: Laura | February 9, 2007 10:22 AM

I agree with others that think that today's topic is ridiculous. I feel for ANS family and her daughter who will not only grow up without her mother, but possibly also with the doubt that the man she calls dad is really not her father.

I also think that she shouldn't be compared to Ann Richards. I think that her upbringing played a huge role in shaping the person she became, but a privileged background doesn't guarantee that one will use their "assets" in an appropriate manner...Paris Hilton comes to mind.

Posted by: MV | February 9, 2007 10:24 AM

scarry, how's your niece doing?

She is doing alright. she is still in school and hopefully she stays there. She hasn't had any contact with the father, but I assume that will change after she has the baby.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 10:26 AM

oops, correction, you said topless, not nude. my bad, but STILL.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 10:30 AM

I agree with Older Mom (and others) that some of us are being rather harsh. While I think there could have been a better topic, this raises a question as to what lengths you would go to so that your child could have food and shelter.

Anna Nicole Smiths (ANS) young adult life reminds me of a friend of mine who, like ANS, had a child in her teens. She once said she would to anything to feed her children, "and I do mean anything." Most of us on this blog haven't been faced with such hardship. I can sit here with my education and decent job and say I'd never swing on a pole to feed my child, but if I were less fortunate I don't know what I'd do. I don't want to be a naked pole technician to feed my child but, honestly, I don't really like the job I have now, however I keep it to get a paycheck and benefits for my child. I use my skills and qualifications to get a job to feed my kid. There are numerous ANS we pass on the street everyday who do the same, topless or otherwise.

Posted by: Cali Esq | February 9, 2007 10:30 AM

Vote for Pedro! ROFLMAO!

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 10:31 AM

To Falls Church, who wrote, "If you grow up in squalor its hard to have refinement":

Shall we start a list -- and a very long list, indeed -- of great Americans who, despite having grown up in squalor, distinguished themselves? Others have already mentioned a few individual examples, but what about the huge numbers of immigrants and their children to rise up from the tenements of New York City? What about the Harlem Renaissance? The great jazz and blues musicians of New Orleans, Kansas City, St. Louis, Chicago, Memphis, etc.? Some even soared academically. You can contribute your own favorite examples.

Posted by: catlady | February 9, 2007 10:32 AM

fo4 - loved your post. I'd love to hear about your brother in law. Just because someone isn't Anna Nicole doesn't mean that their life wasn't interesting and worth taking note of. Hang in there.

Posted by: moxiemom | February 9, 2007 10:33 AM

What Laura said.


Plus, ANS's priority at the time of her death was not providing for or raising her infant daughter - it was to go to Florida and party for 5 days, leaving her daughter in the care of Stern's buddies. ANS wasn't working. She was in Florida only because she preferred the company of drunk strangers to the company of her daughter. She wasn't any more of a mother to her newborn daughter than she was to her now-deceased son. You'd think his death might have taught her some perspective. Not so much.

No one was raising Dannielynn before ANS died, and now she's all alone and the subject of a paternity battle. How brain-numbingly sad.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:37 AM

I actually agree with pATRICK on this one: "She is a warning to all young women who just think that beauty and fame is the ticket to a great life."

And Chris, I do not like that women are objectified and sexualized in Playboy and other porn. However, men are also sexualized in this way, so at least it's equal. I can not judge women who take advantage of this overly sexual society to make money. I personally would not do it, but then I've never been poor with children to raise. At least it's legal. As feminists, we have to choose our battles.

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 10:38 AM

Paris:

You're reading these posts? You're reading your own obituary.

Enjoy it while you can. You will be the Marie Antoinette of this era. Your distant heirs will snort and say "Wasn't she a grand pisser, that old Paris... She lived well and spat on the poor."

Posted by: King Louis XVI | February 9, 2007 10:38 AM

"If you grow up in squalor its hard to have refinement":

Abe Lincoln

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 10:39 AM

Cali Esq, ok honestly, my mom DID do some of those things to put food on the table- she never crossed the line- but it was not for fame and glory, it was as a means of supporting our small family. She even sold blood a few times. Again, ANS did it for fame and glory. While doing what she did, my mom instilled in me a sense of honor, and the importance of reading and working hard, and always doing the right thing no matter what. ANS was trashy for the sake of publicity and married the old guy for money- nothing more. Yet she, and not the millions of Americans who struggle to provide for their children are raised and described as people as fine examples of humanity. That people fall for it. That the majority of people seem to idolize this type of behavior- even those who are supposed to be champions of balance and are looked to as guides- rather than ridicule it shows indeed how far our society as fallen. If you mourn her as a loss of a young human life, fine, but do not set her on some pedestool as a pillar of humanity you are a sheep and part of the problem.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 10:42 AM

"-- without ever once resorting to taking her clothes off."

I'm not accusing your mother of anything, but you don't know that for sure. I have a friend who resorted to working for an escort service with prostitution thrown in until she was able to get a "proper" day job that paid enough to support her and her child. No one knows this except me and her former customers.

This happened 25 years ago. Her husband doesn't know, her child doesn't know, her parents and siblings don't know. Anyone who knows her or meets her would never suspect this of her.

She is my best friend and one of the most honorable, decent people I know. Even if she did take her clothes off, and more, for money.

Posted by: noname | February 9, 2007 10:43 AM

"If you grow up in squalor its hard to have refinement":

Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:44 AM

"I'm not accusing your mother of anything, but you don't know that for sure. I have a friend who resorted to working for an escort service with prostitution thrown in until she was able to get a "proper" day job that paid enough to support her and her child. No one knows this except me and her former customers."

Can I get her phone number? Maybe she needs a few extra spending bucks for Burberry's.

Posted by: wow | February 9, 2007 10:46 AM

And to Abe Lincoln I would say it was hard, but not impossible, and those who give up on attaining refinement because of difficulty, would not have had true refinement, regardless of their origins.

Somehow I believe Abe, who did not always have it easy, would have agreed.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 10:46 AM

ANS and Howard K Stern were in florida to pick up a boat. They are having a home built in the Bahamas and the house has a dock. Not surprising they were looking for a boat.

While there may have been partying involved, none of us were there. We don't really know if she went to pick up a boat or party.

Have none of you gone away and left the kids with a sitter? Doesn't automatically make you neglectful parents.

While I really am not trying to defend ANS, I am trying to defend the idea that we live in a gray world. Not everything is black and white. Good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:47 AM

"I feel bad about Anna Nicole but don't think this is the place to discuss it."

Why not?

She was a single mother who was obviously balance-challenged. The fact that she provided for her family as a stripper, model, and perhaps golddigger doesn't make her all that different from us. She did what she had to do, using the assets she had, to make a better life for herself, her child, and very likely her mother and other members of her family.

So, how is the story of her life and death not germane to our lives?

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 10:49 AM

The point about your friend involved in those activities is that to them it was a sepping stone to something honest and decent- NOT done for the sake of gold digging and partying.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 10:50 AM

Can I get her phone number? Maybe she needs a few extra spending bucks for Burberry's.


Very funny. She did it for food and shelter, not for luxuries.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:50 AM

What are Burberry's?

Posted by: ? | February 9, 2007 10:51 AM

Something your not going to find at K-Mart

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:53 AM

She was an opportunistic stripper who used her looks to pimp her self out when you boil it down. Sad but true. I don't feel heartless about it one bit. It had to end this way, it nearly always does

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 10:54 AM

I was just thinking that there are parallels between Anna Nicole and Cristina Onassis.

Both women spent their lives being exploited, but never really loved, by men. Both died young and tragically. Both left behind young daughters. And in both cases, the daughters were/will be fought over by men who want to exploit them because of the fortune involved.

Sort of reinforces my sense that it really doesn't matter whether you're born filthy rich or filthy poor. You can fall prey to this sad story either way.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 10:57 AM

Something your not going to find at K-Mart

Target maybe?

Posted by: ? | February 9, 2007 10:58 AM

"Have none of you gone away and left the kids with a sitter? Doesn't automatically make you neglectful parents."

Oh, come on. This is moral relativism at its worst. Yes, much of life is grey. I don't care about the centerfold, the saline implants or any of ANS' other unsavory choices that get lumped in with "she was doing the best she could." On the other hand, leaving one's kids with a sitter for the night is different or with one's parents for the weekend is not the moral equivalent of leaving a 6 month old with friends of your lawyer for 5 DAYS. and you know what? If this was the only thing ANS had ever done that telegraphed to everyone worldwide that she was entirely self-absorbed and didn't give a damn about her baby, I'd be tempted to say maybe we don't know enough facts. In this instance, just how much more do you need to know about this woman -- as a parent -- to leave the I'm OK - You're OK mindset behind?

ANS choices with respect to parenting provide the table of contents for a new bestseller, 'HOW TO BE THE WORST PARENT YOU CAN BE AND JUSTIFY IT AS, MY LIFE SUCKED GROWING UP'.


Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 10:58 AM

Leslie once had a column
Whose topic was not very solemn
She spends all this time mourning
When instead she should be scorning;
I wish that she were not so maudlin.

On her praise of Anna Nicole Smith
I find her clumn lacking in pith
She paints as a saint
This woman of taint
and the heart of a dark lord of Sith.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 11:00 AM

This is making headlines around the world. My jaw dropped when I first heard about it.

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 08:45 AM

I find this post particularly funny because Annapolis mom claims to have been in the "News business." She has perspective I guess??? This is the problem with people in the "News Business" - they think this is news. In the whole scheme of things ANS is a mere blip in the radar - and the fact that Annapolis mom's friends were calling her is crazy.

Did any of you "regular folk" get calls about ANS last night? My husband called and told me he was already sick of it and it had just happened - I couldn't even watch the news last night.

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 11:00 AM

ANS choices with respect to parenting provide the table of contents for a new bestseller, 'HOW TO BE THE WORST PARENT YOU CAN BE AND JUSTIFY IT AS, MY LIFE SUCKED GROWING UP'.

Her son sure seemed to like her.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:00 AM

Pittypat

Get a grip.

This was a clever woman who used everyone in her siteline. No one forced her to continue her deranged lifestyle well after she could afford to walk away.

Not every woman has a feminist story to tell. Sometimes an idiot is just an idiot.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:01 AM

"Have none of you gone away and left the kids with a sitter?"

For five days while I got stoned on various pharmaceuticals? No.

For three hours so I could have dinner and a leisurely conversation with my husband--yes.

This wasn't an economic summit for chrissake, it's not like she couldn't have brought the baby and the nanny. Maybe she IS a better parent than we give her credit for, she planned on legal and illegal extracurricular activies and didn't want her child or her staff to witness the event.

Seems to me that ANS proved herself to be a parent in the proud tradition of the O'Neals.

Posted by: Another Laura | February 9, 2007 11:03 AM

Both women spent their lives being exploited, but never really loved, by men

Jackie O exploited? I don't think so. She loved and needed the spotlight being the president's wife and the wife of one of the richest men in the world. She knew what her life was to be when she married young Senator Kennedy.

Both women at some point certainly had the financial means to live a different life if they had wanted to do so.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:04 AM

ANS choices with respect to parenting provide the table of contents for a new bestseller, 'HOW TO BE THE WORST PARENT YOU CAN BE AND JUSTIFY IT AS, MY LIFE SUCKED GROWING UP'.

Her son sure seemed to like her.

Posted by: | February 9, 2007 11:00 AM

Sons love their mothers. Daughters love their daughters. The love of a child isn't always directed at a parent whose behavior merits it. This is news to you?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:05 AM

Pitty - I thought of the same parallel b/w Onassis and this child. I think the story is not ANS's life but the ensuing legal battle over her fortune and the guardianship of the baby.

Even though I do poo-poo the coverage it does not stop my brain from analysis. Unfortunately this is Nancy Grace's wildest dream - she will run with this for the next year.

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 11:05 AM

Oh, faster, Devil, faster.

Posted by: ANS | February 9, 2007 11:05 AM

"If you grow up in squalor its hard to have refinement":

Audrey Hepburn, who suffered the horrors of WW II in Holland.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:06 AM

"Jackie O exploited? I don't think so. She loved and needed the spotlight being the president's wife and the wife of one of the richest men in the world. She knew what her life was to be when she married young Senator Kennedy."

Christina Onassis. Not Jackie Onassis.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 11:07 AM

It was Christina Onassis, Ari's daughter.

Posted by: to the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:09 AM

"On the other hand, leaving one's kids with a sitter for the night is different or with one's parents for the weekend is not the moral equivalent of leaving a 6 month old with friends of your lawyer for 5 DAYS. and you know what? If this was the only thing ANS had ever done that telegraphed to everyone worldwide that she was entirely self-absorbed and didn't give a damn about her baby, I'd be tempted to say maybe we don't know enough facts."

Well, this is certainly one way to look at it. If you view life through a vacuum.

From all reports, she was a very fine mother to her son, who adored her. (And don't point out that she couldn't have been that good a mother if her son had this serious drug problem. Anyone's kid can have that same problem.)

Then, in the past six months, her beloved son died and some creep is demanding a paternity test to prove he's the father of her newborn.

Don't know about you guys, but that would throw me into a pretty major depression. Her behavior during the last six months shouldn't be viewed without context.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:10 AM

Christina Onassis. Not Jackie Onassis

??

I am speaking of Jackie when she married a young senator JFK in 1953 and then married Aristotelis Onassis in 1968. I am not sure of the reference to Christina.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:13 AM

pittypat says, "The fact that she provided for her family as a stripper, model, and perhaps golddigger doesn't make her all that different from us."

This is moral equivalence and victimology run amuck. I could care less how ANS provided for her family, and that's not what makes her different from us. Most of us never considered marrying a very, very old man for his money. Most of us wouldn't waste years of our lives in litigation against the man's son. Most of us would have focused on our son and daughter even if we were reduced to sharing a one-room 600 square foot apartment, or living in a doublewide parked in the middle of nowhere, rather than jet-set on dead old geezer's money, and pitch diet products of questionable value.

Anna Nicole Smith's choices at the point in her life when she could afford to make choices indicate that her priorities are different than mine. She might have been fairly characterized as a victim as a young person. I don't know. But for the last ten years, she was a woman who made a series of crappy choices for herself and those choices impacted her kids.

Since her son's dead, the only victim left standing, so to speak, is her daughter. Let's hope Dannielynn is raised by someone out of the spotlight and with values other than money, money and more money, oh, and some drugs.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:15 AM

Oh, OK, I see now about Christina. I reread pittypat's post.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:15 AM

Onassis: The comparison has nothing to do with JAckie O.

Christina - Ari's daugher - inherited her father's fortune. Christina died leaving everything to her very young daughter. The father is raising her - and I assume to some extent has control over the whole Onassis fortune till the child is an adult.

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 11:16 AM

Chris,

Your poems are terribly droll
On my brain they are taking a toll
If you don't change your tune
And quit writing them soon
My eyes will continue to roll

And as for your boot strapping tales
Filled with victimhood trials and wails
Life is not fair
And I simply don't care
Bout that hot air that's filling your sails

Posted by: there once was a poster who bored me | February 9, 2007 11:16 AM

To: the original anon

Nobody is talking about Jackie Onassis. She's not the person being discussed. Get off it.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:16 AM

We have a poet in our midst! Nice work, Chris.

And so glad Anna Nicole Smith has chimed in.

Posted by: Leslie | February 9, 2007 11:17 AM

"foamgnome - I'm all about the Target shoes too. I know lots of people who are blowing $200 on shoes at Stride Rite for their kids. I think their feet will be fine."

Think twice if they ever start running cross-country. I can't tell you how many times I've lost toenails and had pinched nerves due to cheap shoes. I even have a mysterious compression fracture in my spine that I suspect came from running in cheap shoes. Target's great otherwise, though.

"Scarry, you said it best at 8:10. She was beautiful without being anorexic."

Easy to do with surgery, appetite-suppressing drugs, fake hair, fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake tan, etc...

Posted by: Mona | February 9, 2007 11:17 AM

To: the original anon

Nobody is talking about Jackie Onassis. She's not the person being discussed. Get off it.

I misread the original post, sorry! See my retraction 2 posts above your anonymous post, whoever you are.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:20 AM

I could care less what you think of me, or whether or not your eyes roll. My point is simply that we as a society place far too much value on trashy behavior. That this columnist would raise such a banner, much less any banner for this woman is a sell out to the real American dream and the real trials of women who go through hell. Unless gold digging is really a virtue we want in women, or society, why? If I choose to write of the virtues of the unsung who try to climb out of the pits rather than those who revel in them, that is my own business, and I dare say far more enlightening than the gushing drivel over some dead pop-icon whose claim to fame was that she took an old guy for his money.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 11:25 AM

He was a poet
and did not know it
but his feet shown it

They were Longfellows!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:25 AM

Thanks Leslie, nothing personal mind you. ;)

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 11:27 AM

Katie CouricDan RatherKentBrockman:

"There rages a great debate in America on weblogs about the merits of a D list star-let, ANS. Her untimely death has provided the format for a spirited, sometimes profane, but always heartfelt discussion of the merits of parenthood, drugs, feminism, and of course, celebrity.

Whatever your opinion, no matter where you live, you can be sure it is a debate without end. Like Marilyn Monroe, she was a sad yet compelling figure, an icon of her troubled times, a ...."

(Cut to commercial break.)

And Now, on to Iraq... There rages a great debate in America on weblogs about...

Posted by: Lucifer | February 9, 2007 11:27 AM

"Scarry, you said it best at 8:10. She was beautiful without being anorexic.

"Easy to do with surgery, appetite-suppressing drugs, fake hair, fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake tan, etc..."

True enough, but she was talking about when ANS posed for Guess. She was much more natural then, and much more curvy than she was when she died. She looked pretty strung out in recent appearences. The faker she got, the more unattractive she got.

And, I could use all the fake tan and fake hair in the world and I'll never be as beautiful as she was when she was modelling.

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 11:29 AM

You have said on here before that you are attractive. Do you roll out of bed that way? When she was a Guess model, she didn't look fake at all. Besides it was her job to try and look good.

Just so you know, I have had fake nails, fake (sprayed on tans), wear makeup and color my hair. Yes, I have even taken some supplements to try and lose a few pounds before I knew they were bad. No fake hair though, I have been blessed with thick hair.

My goodness, I am not saying she is a saint, role model, etc. But someone of you people are acting like she was the devil.

Just wondering what you all want to call the old man who married her? A cradle robber, pervert perhaps? Please, they were two single adults and she had the right to marry him.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 11:31 AM

Meesh, but according to pop culture you should keep trying! Never accept less than complete artificiality, both inside and out. The more shallow you are, the more successful you can be, and maybe then, if you are lucky, the nation will mourn your death.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 11:32 AM

Chris,

I did enjoy your poem as it eloquently and succinctly stated your position as you elaborated on in your post of 11:25am. I do completely agree on that.

OTH, I can appreciate the very droll poem by "there once was a poster..." A good banter, like Point/Counterpoint on 60 Minutes. No (blatant) name calling but some logic and wit about it.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:32 AM

"This is moral equivalence and victimology run amuck. I could care less how ANS provided for her family, and that's not what makes her different from us."

Interesting that you focused on the "not so different from us" part. You seem very anxious to distance yourself from the notion that all of us have the capacity to make poor choices and to screw up our lives.

Perhaps some compassion is in order here. No one's saying she's a heroic figure who could serve as a role model for girls and young women. But she's equally not the slattern you and many others are making her out to be.

In death, she deserves your respect. And, if you can't manage that, how about at least your respectful silence?

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 11:33 AM

Meesh, You could with the right photographer, and air brushing, and whatever.

or maybe you couldn't.

but isn't that a values conversation? What is beauty? To me, ANS was never beautiful. A woman who's interesting and natural and fit and does the most she can with the beauty she has, without being obsessed with herself, and who has a sense of humor and doesn't think drugs are fun when she's post-30? Somehow I think you're far more beautiful than ANS was - even sans tan and sans fake hair.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:33 AM

Scarry, we call the Old Man..SENILE

Posted by: Joe D. | February 9, 2007 11:34 AM

I would call the old man lucky, at least for the 5 minutes it took for his heart to give out. HAHAHA

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 11:34 AM

Thanks for the tip on ebay clothes (NCLawyer). I will look into it. When we were deciding to have one child, I considered selling DD used clothes but then decided it was not worth my time. I would rather buy her clothes reasonably priced then worry about if she stains it. I do know some SAHMs that do the resell on ebay. The ones I know just do it to be able to afford expensive clothes like Hannah Anderson, Gymboree etc... I have never even heard of the brands you are talking about. I just went to Toys R Us and got two pairs of sleeper pjs for next year at $5/ each. Can't beat that. I agree gently used (worn twice) is not going to hurt anyone. I think the no used shoes means don't give your younger child a pair of shoes that your older child wore for 3 months every day. But I understand your point about worn just a few times. Except for holiday dresses, DD wears all her clothes more then twice. I wonder how many outfits these parents must be buying to let their kids wear it only twice.

Posted by: foamgnome | February 9, 2007 11:34 AM

This is the worst blog posting I have ever seen -- anywhere. Pathetic, Leslie. Really, really pathetic.

Posted by: Ryan | February 9, 2007 11:34 AM

"Please, they were two single adults and she had the right to marry him. "

Indeed.

Furthermore, whatever she did for that old guy over the 14 months of their marriage, if it made him happy and her rich, ain't it really their business? And shouldn't he have been able to leave her his $$ if he wished?

To all you libertarians out there: Aren't you just a bit outraged that the courts permitted the legally established and documented wishes of an American citizen to be trampled and ignored after his death?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:40 AM

In death, she deserves your respect. And, if you can't manage that, how about at least your respectful silence?

When you make a caricature of yourself and your life, what other way would you expect us to respond about your death?

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:41 AM

To all you libertarians out there: Aren't you just a bit outraged that the courts permitted the legally established and documented wishes of an American citizen to be trampled and ignored after his death?


YES!

Posted by: to feb 9 | February 9, 2007 11:42 AM

no, If I want to leave my money to a cat I should be able to.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 11:43 AM

Oh, I enjoyed the counter poem as well! Very flattering to be thus mocked.

I admit to never addressing the prompt Leslie submitted- how would my life have been different? Well, after gaining such wealth- had I been born with my same set of ideals and values, I no doubt would not have acquired wealth through gold digging- However, after reaching success, I would have championed the cause of downtrodden others, perhaps involving myself in politics with the most noble of goals for our nation and not merely more personal gain in a self-absorbed lifestyle. Not being one for trashy publicity, I no doubt would quickly fade from the limelight despite brilliant ideas for reform to stamp out corruption and implement processes to sever our ties to foreign oil, make available advanced technologies to create safer, more efficient, and durable vehicles, houses, and work to put the emphasis back on providing jobs for innovative and hard working Americans, and not the sale of infrastructure to foreign powers. Again, that was if I had somehow been born with assets to captivate society.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 11:45 AM

"no, If I want to leave my money to a cat I should be able to."

Exactly!

And the old guy wanted to leave his money to her. His choice.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:47 AM

"Don't know about you guys, but that would throw me into a pretty major depression. Her behavior during the last six months shouldn't be viewed without context."

In the midst of the media-circus that was her life, she missed out on the news that there are anti-depressants and therapy available? She couldn't afford them?

Perhaps it was all too much work for her.

Then again, I don't think of Marilyn Monroe as being a hero either, and am still puzzled at why anyone imitates her or discusses her demise all these years later. Weird.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:48 AM

No, do not use the anti-depressants.

Posted by: tom cruise | February 9, 2007 11:50 AM

Leslie, no offense, but have you ever spent 10 minutes with a real stripper?

And why do some women (I said "some") always want to change the subject when things get too "edgy"?

The contrast-and-compare was interesting, but I agree with the posters who have celebrity fatigue. And what does this conversation make of Paris Hilton--she straddles both worlds of priviledge and exploitation, albeit in un-ladylike manner. If ANS had enough street smarts she'd still be breathing?

Posted by: tony | February 9, 2007 11:50 AM

I noticed this article wasn't a link off the main wp.com page with the other blogs. Perhaps WP agrees with how silly this topic is.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:51 AM

Anna Nicole Smith vs. "Sister Carrie" by Theodore Dreiser.

I'll give ANS this, she never pretended to be anything but a gold-digger. There certainly wasn't any "with a heart of gold!" thrown into her mix.

Posted by: comic book guy | February 9, 2007 11:51 AM

Chris:

I never put ANS on a pedestal so I'm sure you are confusing me with others. My question was directed to those of us, such as yourself, who have the intellect to get a comfy desk job to pay the bills. What about those of us who take crappy jobs (desk jobs or otherwise) to feed the kids? (Yes, I think stripping is a crappy job; if there are strippers out there that disagree, my apologies.)

I am glad that your mother was strong for you and instilled morals in you. My point is that some people out there are trying to survive by any legal methods available. I'd rather have my mom stripping legally than being the local drug queenpen that ends up in jail for 10-15. Yes, I think there are limits and I think its up to the parent to decide (balance) what s/he will do to support her family vs. what s/he is comfortable doing.

Posted by: Cali Esq | February 9, 2007 11:52 AM

I thought there was no link because they are confident of the number of hits even without a link.

Looks like we're proving them right :).

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:52 AM

Wow, don't have much to say about Anna Nicole Smith, I've always been too out of touch to really figure out who she was and why people talked about her.

Armchair Mom, in response to your question way earlier:
"At what age did your kids start to notice what brand of clothing their friends were wearing and start objecting to cheap clothes, hand-me-downs, thrift shop and the like? My oldest is entering middle school and I'm not looking forward to seeing our clothing bills go up significantly. Is this a valid concern?"

I have a great friend with two daughters, 9 and 13, who is a thrift shop fiend. She has a great sense of style and also thoroughly enjoys finding good second-hand stuff (which is good as they live on a very tight budget so it also a necessity for them). Her girls have really taken on the same attitude and so far have not balked at second hand stuff - I think maybe because they see their mom making the same choices for her own clothing. It's pretty cool - they all go to goodwill or wherever together and root through the stuff and see what cool stuff they can find and it's like a fun afternoon for them. Her older daughter did recently really, really want some particular type of new shoe, which my friend got for her, but overall I don't think there's been a big problem for her to keep the clothing budget down.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 11:55 AM

I noticed this article wasn't a link off the main wp.com page with the other blogs. Perhaps WP agrees with how silly this topic is.


Acutally, it is, look under the screaming ANS headline!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 11:56 AM

Oh, wait, Leslie. I get it now.

Anna Nichole and Lady Governor of Texas were OVER ACHIEVERS! And that just makes them more interesting than the rest of us, I guess.

As a man of modest means and whatnot, I can't tell you how much FUN it is to be in a room with an over-achiever of any type or gender...

Posted by: tony | February 9, 2007 11:58 AM

got a heart murmur!

ROFL, I am glad that the real Jokester is back!

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 11:58 AM

"Please, they were two single adults and she had the right to marry him. "

Indeed.

Furthermore, whatever she did for that old guy over the 14 months of their marriage, if it made him happy and her rich, ain't it really their business? And shouldn't he have been able to leave her his $$ if he wished?

To all you libertarians out there: Aren't you just a bit outraged that the courts permitted the legally established and documented wishes of an American citizen to be trampled and ignored after his death?

Posted by: | February 9, 2007 11:40 AM


Did the old guy have ANS in his will? I thought the whole case was based on ANS trying to prove that her husband wanted her to have 1/2 of his estate but they she was NOT named in the will? Or am I wrong?

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 11:59 AM

OJ did it!

Whoops, wrong legal case!

Posted by: Johnnie Cochran | February 9, 2007 12:01 PM

A woman who can get a man who's worth half a billion dollars to marry her is by no means stupid. How many of you "above this post" have pulled off that feat? Better yet, what ordinary, mundane jobs do you hold? No one accidentally succeeds in Hollywood; it is the meanest, most back-stabbing business there is. It's easy to judge from your office cubicle and noon time lunch.

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 12:02 PM

In death, she deserves your respect. And, if you can't manage that, how about at least your respectful silence?

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 11:33 AM

pittypat, why does someone deserve my respect or respectul silence just because they die? My goodness we've lowered the bar for respect if dying is all it takes. Crap, with that standard, I'll have to start respecting Saddam Hussein, Ted Bundy, and any number of other miserable folks who darkened the planet by their actions.

It takes more than living and dying to earn my respect. And if one's primary goal in life is celebrity, I don't owe her respectful silence either.

To the poster who wants to discuss trust and estates law in Texas, the question generally was not whether Geezer had the right to leave his $$$ to ANS (he does), but whether Geezer was in his sound mind to make that decision at the time he appears to have made it, or whether the last will he made while of sound mind was an earlier one. There are stories galore of sweet young hot things befriending old rich guys in various stages of alzheimers and coercing them into changing their wills and cutting out relatives. As long as the rich guy is competent when he makes that choice, it's his choice. If he's not competent, the last will he made while competent determines who gets how many dozen gold bars.

Posted by: NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 12:02 PM

How many of you "above this post" have pulled off that feat? Better yet, what ordinary, mundane jobs do you hold?

I am sitting in my cubicle with my prosaic job. I do know two things: 1. I will not die at 39 leaving my young child parentless and 2. I will go to my death with respect of the people who know me.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 12:06 PM

the original anon - 3 days ago the astronaut could have said the same thing. None of us knows for sure what the future holds.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:10 PM

The attackers on this post (and every day) are ridiculous and need to be deleted. If you can't join a conversation constructively... take your bitterness and attacks to another website. No one likes it and you're not changing anyone's mind.

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 12:10 PM

annapolis, why would I want to pull something like that off? It is not a REAL accomplishment. I would not exactly call it success. I am sure I could have found a nice rich old woman and taken advantage of the situation, but is that really admirable? Yes, two consenting adults, blah, blah, blah. If you want to further yourself and gain at least the appearance of something more than the shallowness evidenced by lauding marrying a rich old person for their money, classes are now open at St Francis University. Yep, good old STFU. ;)

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 12:11 PM

There are some people on this post who do not know the facts and want to speculate. First of all, Oprah was sexually abused at a young age and because of that abuse she did become pregnant. I do not think I have ever heard Oprah call herself a saint. She is someone who has made herself a success and in return chooses to give back to people who need it.

Posted by: Just a comment | February 9, 2007 12:12 PM

For those interested in the battle over the money -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/28/AR2006022800142_pf.html

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:13 PM

Thank you NC Lawyer and original anon. LOL at 1210 though. Well done!

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 12:14 PM

the original anon - 3 days ago the astronaut could have said the same thing. None of us knows for sure what the future holds.

Posted by: | February 9, 2007 12:10 PM

Poppycock. It's not as though the astronaut was drugged or hypnotized into doing something against her will.

Whether of not the original mom knows what the future holds with respect to others, or her health, she can be certain of her own actions. Shee can be certain she won't make drug use a lifestyle or buy a wig and some depends and attempt to off someone.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:15 PM

the original anon - 3 days ago the astronaut could have said the same thing. None of us knows for sure what the future holds.


True, but I tried to lead my life so that I will earn respect and be respected when I do pass on.

I just hope I don't die in this dammed cubicle! :)

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 12:15 PM

"In the midst of the media-circus that was her life, she missed out on the news that there are anti-depressants and therapy available? She couldn't afford them?"

Not all of us are blessed with the crystal-clear perception that you have. In the midst of depression, you don't necessarily know there's anything wrong. Or you know and don't care -- BECAUSE YOU'RE DEPRESSED.

"Then again, I don't think of Marilyn Monroe as being a hero either, and am still puzzled at why anyone imitates her or discusses her demise all these years later. Weird."

Unlike Anna Nicole Smith, MM was a fine actress. Among the largely unknown facts about her is that she was an accomplished Shakespearean stage actress. Also, she was caught up in the politics and scandal of the day. And, she was beautiful and vulnerable -- a combination that powerful men can't resist.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:16 PM

The attackers on this post (and every day) are ridiculous and need to be deleted. If you can't join a conversation constructively... take your bitterness and attacks to another website. No one likes it and you're not changing anyone's mind.

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 12:10 PM

Annapolis mom, What say you have a conversation all by yourself facing a mirror then? That should fit nicely with the concept of a blog that you propose. Fortunately, WaPO has a somewhat broader definition of what is a suitable posting and it encompasses those with different opinions on various topics.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:18 PM

Some people do overcome all odds to become what many consider admirable people.

Others do not have the same internal fortitude to do that.

Wasn't it just a few days ago that people talked about home-schooling to avoid bullies because their children were sensitive? Could any of these children overcome the odds that Oprah and others faced? BTW, how many Oprah's are there? Not enough to say that accomplishing what she has accomplished is the norm.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:19 PM

Also, she was caught up in the politics and scandal of the day. And, she was beautiful and vulnerable -- a combination that powerful men can't resist.

But, at least, Joe DiMaggio truly loved her.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 12:20 PM

I guess in her own way, ANS did give back too, though differently than Oprah. I am sure lots of lonely people were able to develop stronger arms and wrists because of her.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 12:20 PM

12:20 and the topics run out of steam yet again. tick. tock. tick. tock. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:23 PM

"It takes more than living and dying to earn my respect. And if one's primary goal in life is celebrity, I don't owe her respectful silence either."

I do have to say that everyone's measure of success is different. My friend's cousin has a goal to get a job as a bagger at a grocery store. In his parent's eyes, he will be successful if he does. Some people think that success is simply having a family and a job that supports them. For other people, being in the stoplight is the definition of success (just ask Ryan Seacrest!). The big picture is that she fought for what SHE imagined was success. I think that's kind of the point. Far be it from us to judge her goals (as long as they don't involve killing people or some other horrendous act).

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 12:25 PM

I never in my life thought I'd one day end up defending ANS. It's not that I am; I guess I am just trying to say: before you berate her for rising above an ordinary life by marrying a billionaire and making a Hollywood go at life... look at why you are attacking her. We all get jealous of those who have things and $$$ that we don't ourselves have - it is human nature and anyone with any confidence will admit it. I suspect the attackers on this post have very ordinary lives and enjoy watching some one who had so much go down in flames - it's makes them feel better about who they aren't and where they aren't. Who should we really be pitying?

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 12:26 PM

"I do know two things: 1. I will not die at 39 leaving my young child parentless and 2. I will go to my death with respect of the people who know me."

I appreciate your sentiments, but there's nothing you can do to guarantee when you will die or who will respect you. Perhaps you are already older than 39, but you may still die tomorrow and you have no way of knowing whether your child or anyone else will respect you. Maybe your kids will think you were a shmuck for spending so much time in your cubicle instead of taking risks and going after a dream. I'm not trying to slam you in particular (it's not like I do anything that is particularly exciting or risky or dream chasing) - I'm just saying that assuming that you deserve respect and will get it based on your choices is a fallacy. The only thing any of us can do is live the life that we can feel good and happy about - we can't choose what others will think of it now or after we're gone. If you are happy with your choices that's great, and that should be enough for you. It doesn't really matter what choices anyone else makes or what they think of yours.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 12:27 PM

"Yes, I have even taken some supplements to try and lose a few pounds before I knew they were bad."

I was talking about the coke, not the Trimspa.

I guess I think of myself as reasonably attractive (though I may have led this blog to believe I am some sort of supermodel--I apologize, false advertising), but I'm really just "okay." And I don't even roll out of bed "okay"! I do diet and exercise, and sometimes wear makeup, but for the most part, I'm relatively natural. I envy your thick hair though! Mine is a decent color, but pitifully thin. :-(

Anyway, my point was, just because someone is curvy doesn't mean you can call her a "natural" beauty...which is what a lot of us call fuller-figured women. Not that I'm saying Meesh called her natural; she didn't. I guess it was presumptuous to assume that's what people were thinking. I wonder what she would've looked like naturally?

Posted by: Mona | February 9, 2007 12:29 PM

"Unlike Anna Nicole Smith, MM was a fine actress. Among the largely unknown facts about her is that she was an accomplished Shakespearean stage actress. Also, she was caught up in the politics and scandal of the day. And, she was beautiful and vulnerable -- a combination that powerful men can't resist."

an accomplished Shakespearean stage actress? cite please.

She was, at best, a mediocre actress with a ton of charisma and an awesome figure. As she aged, the more she popped pills, the more unreliable she became until no one in Hollywood wanted to work with her because she'd show up on the set late, if at all, unfit to work. Caught up in the politics of the day? Is that what you call it when your morally-challenged?

People, pick better role models.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:31 PM

Who should we really be pitying?

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 12:26 PM

Please, aren't you the one that was in the "news business" and had telephone calls about "what you knew and when you knew it" about ANS's death? Are you a journalist? It would explain a lot of your indignation because you are - shall we say - more enlightened? Pity the commoners - that can not see the forest for the trees!

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 12:36 PM

"We all get jealous of those who have things and $$$ that we don't ourselves have - it is human nature and anyone with any confidence will admit it."

That comment says more about the superficial values of its author than of anyone else. If things and $$$ are what's important to you, don't blame human nature and speak only for yourself in terms of jealousy. Jealousy is an emotion for the immature and insecure. Commercial goods and financial success are not the most valued acquisitions of everyone in the world or even everyone on this blog. Money and things bring nothing but trouble into many lives.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:38 PM

Wow, this just in from my CNN e-news notice: "A Los Angeles judge orders the body of Anna Nicole Smith to be preserved pending a February 20 hearing on the paternity dispute surrounding her five-month-old daughter, lawyer says."

That infamous body is now evidence in a pending court case.

Obviously, what you do in life can haunt you in death.

Posted by: single western mom | February 9, 2007 12:40 PM

"Perhaps WP agrees with how silly this topic is."

Actually, it was linked from the ANS front page stories. Got special billing today.

Guess WaPo doesn't think it's that silly.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:41 PM

"If you are happy with your choices that's great, and that should be enough for you. It doesn't really matter what choices anyone else makes or what they think of yours."

Megan, If Leslie tees up a topic that directly invites comment on a celebrity's choices, actions, and life's accomplishments, I don't think it's inappropriate to convey our thoughts about the wisdom of those choices. To me, that's entirely different from me commenting on your choices, or vice versa. Ultimately, of course, we can agree to disagree.

Posted by: NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 12:42 PM

"My goodness we've lowered the bar for respect if dying is all it takes. Crap, with that standard, I'll have to start respecting Saddam Hussein, Ted Bundy, and any number of other miserable folks who darkened the planet by their actions."

NC lawyer,

This is unworthy of you. Normally, you inject logic and common sense into the discourse on this blog. Sometimes even kindness, understanding, and compassion.

By "respectful silence," I mean, if you've got only trash to say about the dead person, then shut up.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 12:47 PM

pittypat says, "The fact that she provided for her family as a stripper, model, and perhaps golddigger doesn't make her all that different from us."
Uh, maybe not that different from YOU pittypat but quite different for the rest of us. This is the type of statement that passes for "compassion" today. In reality it is just a sign of having utterly no common sense or moral compass.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 12:47 PM

Can we talk about the war in Iraq now? We know that GWB had ANS knocked off....He doesn't like stupid Texans...

Wait a minute...

Posted by: please | February 9, 2007 12:50 PM

NC lawyer, I agree that this topic invites us all to comment on ANS choices, and that's fine if that's what people want to do. My point was that "the original anon" is assuming that because she has made more conventional choices, she deserves (and will receive) more respect than ANS. I think she's wrong there - you can only know about how you feel about your choices, you can't know what others will think, and comparing them to other's choices isn't going to change what they mean to you. I don't know if I'm explaining that well, I guess I'm just saying that the only think you have control over is how you feel about your own life, so spending a lot of time comparing your life to others (and especially thinking that you will be more respected than others) probably isn't going to get you very far in your own happiness or in your relationships.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 12:50 PM

"Uh, maybe not that different from YOU pittypat but quite different for the rest of us. This is the type of statement that passes for "compassion" today. In reality it is just a sign of having utterly no common sense or moral compass."

That's right. I was a drug dealer. I was only providing for my family. What folks did with crack and meth is their business.

Posted by: RD | February 9, 2007 12:51 PM

{"Caught up in the politics of the day? Is that what you call it when your [you're] morally-challenged [morally challenged]?"

Well, given that she was sleeping with both JFK and RFK -- and that J. Edgar Hoover had spies following her around to monitor her relationship with the Kennedys -- yeah, I think you can say that she was involved politically.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:53 PM

"I do know two things: 1. I will not die at 39 leaving my young child parentless and 2. I will go to my death with respect of the people who know me."

OK, I will retract my statement and revise thusly:

"I will not die at 39."
As I am over 39, I have already accomplished this.

I don't have any infant children and it is biologically impossible for me to father any more but I suppose I could adopt.

My whole life could change by divorcing my current wife and marrying an astronaut. I could be in ANS's will. I could be Ari and Jackie love child who was switched in the nursery. The only thing that I know for sure is that I don't want to die in this damned cubicle. But I could change my mind on that tomorrow. (Maybe, my birth certificate is a fake and I am really 29?)

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 12:55 PM

How long before conspiracy-theorists start promoting the theory that Anna Nicole was murdered. By who? The CIA, the Mafia, Al-qaeda, Pat Robertson?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 12:55 PM

Where have you been??? geraldo was doing just that around 9:30 last night...

Posted by: RD | February 9, 2007 12:56 PM

My sister (God bless her) buys most of the clothes my girls wear(she's an inveterate consignment shopper). Actually, she has an obsession and can't stop buying them, even when the girls have enough. I buy socks, underwear, and shoes--all new. And occasionally I will see something cute, or have a particular need for something to go with something she's gotten them. Oh, and swimsuits (secondhand).

The girls get one pair each of tennis shoes, Sunday shoes, sandals, and (new last year) Keds. I get them all at Stride Rite. Fortunately, their feet don't grow very quickly, so it is usually one pair of each for each girl each year. The reason for the Keds last year was that they had grown out of their tennis shoes by the end of May and I didn't want to buy new tennis shoes then. So I got them sandals (for anywhere except school) and Keds (for school). The only time I got shoes second hand was when my older daughter first came home from China and was wearing tiny size two shoes. I figured most kids weren't walking when they were wearing size two, so the shoes wouldn't have conformed (significantly) to someone else's feet.

Posted by: Single mother by choice | February 9, 2007 12:58 PM

Perhaps they could freeze her head like ted williams? The Borg are always looking for new parts.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 12:59 PM

Megan,

I am a he not a she.

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 12:59 PM

the original anon, I like your sense of humor :)

Hopefully we can both get out of our physical or metaphysical cubicles before it's too late!

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 1:01 PM

"Uh, maybe not that different from YOU pittypat but quite different for the rest of us."

Speaking for the whole blog now, pATRICK?

Didn't realize they'd elected you press secretary.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 1:01 PM

I think Leslie made a good choice of this topic today. Our circumstances of our birth and upbringing can greatly determine who we become. As a mother, she was probably making the best decisions she thought possible at the time - that's the best any mother can do.

I have a friend who made some not so smart decisions and is a single mom to a 5 year old boy. She's one smart cookie, and beat the odds of her circumstances and went off to law school. She thought she was making the best decision at the time by having her son stay with her mother in another state while she pursued her studies. She would visit him every other week.

The deliquent father, who was sick of paying child care, got re-married and after one of his customary visits with the child, decided to keep the child and launch a custody battle against my friend. He could care less about his son, is never around, has a new, young wife to take care of him, and gets custody. My friend was trying to get ahead in her life by going into full study mode, and lost custody of her son. I don't think she made a lot of smart decisions, but I think of her as one of the best moms I know.

Posted by: Single Mom in Bethesda | February 9, 2007 1:02 PM

Megan,

I get to go home at lunch today! I will be looking for ANS's will in the mail tomorrow!

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 1:03 PM

"Megan,

I am a he not a she.

Posted by: the original anon"

Could have fooled me.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 1:04 PM

Excellent! Good luck with that. Personally, I'm still buying those powerball tickets, watch for me on the news. And sorry about the gender mixup, I do that a lot on this forum.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 1:06 PM

to February 9, 2007 01:04 PM

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Posted by: the original anon | February 9, 2007 1:06 PM

To all of you "highbrow" readers who think her death is not newsworthy... get over yourselves. I used to work in the news business, and I actually had people call me last night thinking I might have inside info about what happened - and I don't even work in the business anymore. This is a major headline. Stop acting like this is above you. This is making headlines around the world. My jaw dropped when I first heard about it.

Posted by: annapolis mom | February 9, 2007 08:45 AM

I agree with Annapolis Mom. I really didnt follow her career, but I found her beautiful and somewhat of a breathe of fresh air. I feel for her and her son and newborn. May god be with her and her family........"Candle in the wind"

Posted by: Sad4SomeReason | February 9, 2007 1:07 PM

Sues an old man for estate $ endlessly.

Now, her Estate will be sued endlessly for the same money.

This is such perfect karma.

ANS: what's it feel like to be used for your money?

Posted by: Lucifer | February 9, 2007 1:07 PM

Sues an old man for estate $ endlessly.

Now, her Estate will be sued endlessly for the same money.

This is such perfect karma.

ANS: what's it feel like to be used for your money?

Posted by: Lucifer | February 9, 2007 1:09 PM

Pittypat, i will gladly take my chances that many more will agree with me on that one than you. Since I know your background, I am not surprised at your statement but it is a bit much even from you.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 1:10 PM

Sues an old man for estate $ endlessly.

Now, her Estate will be sued endlessly for the same money.

This is such perfect karma.

ANS: what's it feel like to be used for your money?

Posted by: Lucifer | February 9, 2007 1:12 PM

Those of you with snide self-satisfied comments have undoubtedly in the past been entertained by Anna Nicole, if only for a moment. It was hard to ignore her; she was everywhere, and the public loved following her antics, no matter how lurid. She knew what she was doing; she was entertaining us. She was a strong woman, making her own way, and most of you didn't look away, you looked even closer. So shut up and pay a little respect.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 1:13 PM

How about some compassion for a young woman who died, leaving an infant daughter alone in the world? How about some compassion for a mother who lost her child and who must have been in agony over his death? How about some compassion for a not-too-bright high school dropout who made some poor choices and undoubtedly was victimized many times in her short life? You don't have to approve of her choices or her life ... but at least give a grieving mother respect for her pain and have a little compassion for her orphaned infant daughter who is even now being set up for a lifetime of grief.

Posted by: fortunate in my life | February 9, 2007 1:15 PM

I do find the situation sad. I don't come to people's defenses all that often. People may not agree with how she lived her life and what choices she made. But I do remember watching an episode of her show, and if nothing else, she did love her son very, very much.

I really think that his death expedited hers. I can't fathom giving birth to your second child, and having your first child die a few days later. I wonder if any PPD factors into her mental state over the past few months, compounded by the loss and grief over her son. And then the legal battles. In addition to whatever meds she was taking on top of it all.

I can't help but feel sorry for her. And I feel sorry for her daughter too.

Posted by: JRS | February 9, 2007 1:18 PM

"Since I know your background"

pATRICK:

Since I've never provided my "background" on this blog, I can't imagine what you think you know about me.

Real name?
Date of birth?
Place of birth?
Parents' names and ethnicities?
Siblings?
Circumstances of upbringing?
Place of residence?
Education?
Career?
Favorite flavor of ice cream?

You know nothing about my background. You may have speculated and surmised based on your own petty little biases. But beyond that, you are ignorant.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 1:18 PM

Yep pay respect to the woman who had no respect for herself. Bravo. Rather than make a living, she took it from a senile old man. Yep, worthy of entertainment. More likely it was so greusome that people could not look away. It sickens me that people like her have become the definition for successful. Ok, I am really getting sick of this. later.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 1:18 PM

Judge what you will but she is instantly recognizable to millions of Americans known because she had a beautiful face, becuase her life was fascinating in some way or form. She sold tons for GUESS, tons for Trimspa, tons of magazines for Playboy, tons for tabloids, and made a hit show for E!. So whose buying those jeans, pills, magazines, watching her show? Look at yourselves people, Americans made her a star. She made a lot a $$$ and fame without a degree, without privlege. And now at her death, she's still all the talk.

Posted by: She was a star | February 9, 2007 1:19 PM

Beautifully said, "fortunate in my life."

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 1:20 PM

Chris, who ever said she has to be your definition of successful? Any more than you are my definition of a self-satisfied snide loser? Why to you feel so compelled to hate? Get over yourself

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 1:24 PM

"Not all of us are blessed with the crystal-clear perception that you have. In the midst of depression, you don't necessarily know there's anything wrong. Or you know and don't care -- BECAUSE YOU'RE DEPRESSED."

1) Her son died. It's SOP for the grief counselors and clergy that cluster round to advise therapy and to consider a course of AD's. I doubt she didn't hear it.

2) What you do while you are depressed you are still legally liable for doing. "I made a bad decision because I was depressed" is the current equivalent of "the devil made me do it!".

Big deal. Being psychotic is about the only out that works, and even then it's hard to prove and explain.

AND given the number of people whose livelihoods depended upon ANS and her money-generating notoriety, I have no doubt that there were a fair number in the ensuing months who also advised AD's. After all, she was their gravy train and they needed her around to keep the money flowing into their pockets.

Marilyn Monroe was a fine actress? You've GOT to be kidding me! She was subpar at best, but gave great horizontal interviews and had a nice figure. Even she managed to blow it by showing up to work, whacked out of her gourd. THAT takes no special talent.

Crisis reveals character. ANS couldn't be bothered to do anything that might possibly help her get better. Not for herself, not for her kids and then, sadly, not even for her remaining child.


Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 1:24 PM

Pittypat, you always come through. Thanks again for the rant. Yawn. By the way Leslie, Fonzie called and when you get done jumping the shark, he would like his leather jacket back. FYI

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 1:24 PM

Should we now ask ourselves at key points, "What would Anna Nicole do?"

Posted by: pb | February 9, 2007 1:24 PM

Yep pay respect to the woman who had no respect for herself. Bravo. Rather than make a living, she took it from a senile old man. Yep, worthy of entertainment. More likely it was so greusome that people could not look away. It sickens me that people like her have become the definition for successful. Ok, I am really getting sick of this. later.

Posted by: Chris | February 9, 2007 01:18 PM

We are ALL JUDGED at the END! None of us are without flaws or bad decisions, so who are we to draw conclusions about others??!!

Posted by: Sad4SomeReason | February 9, 2007 1:26 PM

PB , yes we should...... and then do the opposite.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 1:26 PM

yEAH, gOOD gOING, pATRICK. aLWAYS rIGHT tHERE wITH tHE sHARP cOMEBACK. eSPECIALLY wHEN yOU'VE bEEN pROVEN wRONG.

iDIOT.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 1:29 PM

Not only was those jeans, pills, magazines, and her show selling, Anna herself was a commodity sold in the market. She is as American as apple pie. Judge what you will, but whoever said capitalism in the US was moral?

Posted by: Anna was a star | February 9, 2007 1:30 PM

Pitty, don't be ashamed. Sign your posts. Don't run from you craziness, embrace it.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 1:31 PM

"Pittypat, you always come through. Thanks again for the rant."

pATRICK,

Always glad to oblige. Especially when your misperceptions need sorting out.

I believe, pATRICK, that your moniker reflects a small man constipated by his humorless existence and rigid, unyielding moral code.

But I'm sure your wife loves you very much.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 1:35 PM

Advising those with whom one disagrees to shut up neither advances your argument nor raises the level of civility.

We are to draw conclusions about others' choices in order to avoid making similar poor choices or in order to do our best to duplicate the good choices. Discrimination amongst life choices is a key survival skill and a pretty damn good test of values and priorities as well.

I get the impression that when talented musicians die from overdoses of illegal narcotics, you consider it impermissible to draw the conclusion that consuming illegal narcotics is a poor choice because -- wow, look at that bad outcome from that choice -- and to comment on that poor choice. At least they're talented. In this instance, Leslie and apparantly a few others, suggest that we should draw some positive life's lesson from the unfortunate demise of a young woman of no discernible talent, much celebrity, and a certain avariciousness. Several of us resist this suggestion.

yelling at those with whom you disagree, calling those with whom you disagree names, and telling them/us to shut up and not judge is just lame.

In my honest opinion, not that there's anything wrong with that, insert appropriate disclaimer here, . . . .

Posted by: NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 1:41 PM

Right on as usual, NC Lawyer.

Posted by: Laura | February 9, 2007 1:43 PM

Careful Pittypat, wouldn't want to run a foul of the Blog police. Perhaps Leslie should look at some of your posts...

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 1:44 PM

Are you jealous because she made all that money and didn't have to be a low-life lawyer to do it?

Posted by: to NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 1:45 PM

Go Scarry! Go Pittypat! You make this blog proud.

Posted by: Leslie | February 9, 2007 1:46 PM

NC lawyer,

Pomposity doesn't become you.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 1:47 PM

Well, if Leslie wanted to point out the obvious, that we have grown some larger than life characters down here in Texas, than see chose her topic well. I'd have preferred that she pick her comparison example subjects slightly different, as many posters have already said, but okay. At least it's not another topic on BFeeding, which pushed me away form commenting for several days (though after reading here today, I guess I need to go back and look at Fof4 from yesterday now.)

I'd like to take the nice tack, and suggest that we run the gamut on spirited women here in Texas, from ANS and the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders (no, not trying to lump them together as equivalent), to Ann Richards and Molly Ivins. Among the many things I love about Texas women is that they as smart enough to use and realize all their assets and shoot for the stars, while not loosing all their femininity (hear that, Hillary?). They can be as capable as any example of homo sapiens, and yet are bright enough to continue to let men think we are smarter. Some might suggest that is manipulation, but if so, it is one us men can understand and tolerate. And for those men actually dumb enough not to see it, even better, I say. You have already heard my say on Ann Richards, the last Dem I voted enthusiastically for--but there was even a female Texas Governor not long after female suffrage. Long story, and one with caveats, so I won't discuss here. But in all Texas women are a truly remarkable group...and a group not afraid to tell it like it is--a trait I much admire.

scarry:
I agree with scarry that ANS was very pretty early on, and the more so for being curvy. Can't understand why so many women think that stick figure models on fashion catwalks or Ally McBeal is what us men find attractive--and then starve themselves trying to obtain. Yucko...most men I have ever known like curves, not a bony 12 year old boy look-alike. Luckily, most Texas women oblige. Thank God.

There are plenty of pretty women everywhere, of course, but in my travels I have found few that match the pluck of Texas women. As I think of all that I admire about women, and it is much, as a group Texas women possess many of those best of qualities.

So I'll take Leslie's column today as a chance to offer the above words as a small attempt at an Ode to Texas Women. We Texas men are very lucky, as I know very well--guys everywhere else should be this blessed.

Texas women deserve much more, of course, but I don't have time to make it as poetic as the cause deserves.

I did want to throw in that I agree that we have put far too much weight and wasted breath worrying about celebrity as an end, not a means. ANS and Paris couldn't happen anywhere but here. A final point that isn't on parental or life balance, but maybe we'd have better SOCIETAL balance if we stopped obsessing over those who've earned fame, not success.

Now, I'll go back and read Fof4...

Posted by: Texas Dad of 2 | February 9, 2007 1:50 PM

NC lawyer, it does actually sound like sour grapes on your part. Anna Nicole had more fun than you do. So I guess we don't have to feel too sorry for her, we'll feel sorry for you instead.

Posted by: lizzie | February 9, 2007 1:50 PM

I never agreed politically with Ann Richards or Molly Ivins, but I always respected the big set of cojones they had. Those were women to mourn.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 1:53 PM

"NC lawyer,

Pomposity doesn't become you."

Well, do you take drugs, go for 3 a.m. runs through bad neighborhoods, dive head-first into unknown waters and go on blind dates without telling someone where you are going, or make a practice of dating rich old senile men in hopes they will marry you and you'll get the money?

Any one of those are examples of bad judgment. And while they are par-for-the-course when we are in our teenage years, they are simply stupid by the time one is 39.

She abused drugs, legal and otherwise. She's dead for some reason or another. She's no hero.

As for her dead hubby, would any of you want someone like her preying upon your elderly relatives? Sound of mind or not? I bet you wouldn't.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 1:54 PM

"Careful Pittypat, wouldn't want to run a foul of the Blog police. Perhaps Leslie should look at some of your posts..."

pATRICK, Leslie loves Pitty and her writing. She has said so numerous times. It is a YOU GO GIRL! love, although she claims not to always agree with her.

There really is no official blog police - I am sure you know that. Isn't the jokester's comments the only ones that have been removed?

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 1:55 PM

That is a sad commentary on Leslie then. Pittypat only personally attacks anyone who disagrees with her. I thought Leslie had more integrity than that. Guess I was wrong.
"User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site UNLESS Leslie likes them" -updated

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 2:00 PM

We are to draw conclusions about others' choices in order to avoid making similar poor choices or in order to do our best to duplicate the good choices. Discrimination amongst life choices is a key survival skill and a pretty damn good test of values and priorities as well.

I get the impression that when talented musicians die from overdoses of illegal narcotics, you consider it impermissible to draw the conclusion that consuming illegal narcotics is a poor choice because -- wow, look at that bad outcome from that choice -- and to comment on that poor choice. At least they're talented. In this instance, Leslie and apparantly a few others, suggest that we should draw some positive life's lesson from the unfortunate demise of a young woman of no discernible talent, much celebrity, and a certain avariciousness. Several of us resist this suggestion.

We can learn from any situation that we encounter. ie: Look at Barack Obama, he admitted doing hard drugs when he was young (college) and yet look where he stands, he adjusted his coarse in life. ANS just didnt learn from her misatakes but she also may not had the guidance that Mr. Obama had. So I understand what you are saying. All I'am saying is that we dont know every aspect of her life. We are all screw ups sometime in our life...;)

Posted by: Sad4SomeReason | February 9, 2007 2:01 PM

"In this instance, Leslie and apparantly a few others, suggest that we should draw some positive life's lesson from the unfortunate demise of a young woman of no discernible talent, much celebrity, and a certain avariciousness."

39 is hardly young.

I'm NOT saying it is old--but it's not the same as 14, or even 22.

You would have thought that SOMEwhere along the line, the woman would have used SOME of the money she earned on her own (if not what she earned in her 14 months of marriage to the rich old geezer) to put more inside of her head than booze and pills.

Shame about her kids.

Still, I wonder if someone who didn't have scads of money wouldn't have been subjected to child protective services if we pulled the same stunts that ANS did?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:01 PM

NC lawyer, who is the "you" that you address in your big post there?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:01 PM

I hadn't a clue to who Ann Nicole was until I read this blog today. One thing that's obvious to me, despite her fortune and beauty, she suffered a great deal throughout her life.

I've been thinking about death a lot lately, and I've concluded that at the time of my departure, I wish that people would judge me by my accomplishments and goodwill, and not by my greatest sins.

Some girls are pretty, some girls are hot, and some girls are beautiful. You can tell if a girl is pretty by looking at her picture. You can tell if a girl is hot by watching the way she moves, but you can only tell if she is beautiful by getting to know her.

And I've noticed a lot of really beautiful girls on this blog in the last few days. Thanks for all your support. :-)

Something uplifting:
My 4 year old had weather duty today at pre-school. This is when a pupil gets to build a felt board with clouds, sun, snowflakes, raindrops, umbrellas, cats, dogs, lightning bolts and people to describe the weather. The last thing he put on the board was the felt person. He placed him at the top of the board in the clouds and told the class, "This is my Uncle Mark. God took him up real high yesterday."

Posted by: Father of 4 | February 9, 2007 2:03 PM

"Are you jealous because she made all that money and didn't have to be a low-life lawyer to do it?"

This perspective drives me crazy. You know, it actually is possible to disapprove of someone's choices without being jealous of them. I disapprove of Paris Hilton. God knows I'm not jealous of her.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 2:03 PM

"NC lawyer, who is the "you" that you address in your big post there?"

"You" is a plural as well as a singular noun.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:04 PM

NC lawyer, who is the "you" that you address in your big post there?"

"You" is a plural as well as a singular noun.

So is she addressing everyone who isn't into judgins Anna Nicole or someone specifically?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:07 PM

Fo4:

I'm so sorry to hear about your family's loss.

My 4 year old had weather duty today at pre-school. This is when a pupil gets to build a felt board with clouds, sun, snowflakes, raindrops, umbrellas, cats, dogs, lightning bolts and people to describe the weather. The last thing he put on the board was the felt person. He placed him at the top of the board in the clouds and told the class, "This is my Uncle Mark. God took him up real high yesterday."

Sounds as though he was someone special! And it sounds as though your son IS someone special too.

Posted by: MdMother | February 9, 2007 2:07 PM

"Still, I wonder if someone who didn't have scads of money wouldn't have been subjected to child protective services if we pulled the same stunts that ANS did?"

Unlikely. You can really do the most astonishing things to your kids without being picked up by CPS. My sister teaches kindergarten and has been trying for the past six months to get CPS intervention for a little boy who comes in with the most grotesque bruises. So far, no luck.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 2:09 PM

Y'all sound like a bunch of biddies under hair dryers.

Why be so mean about someone who never hurt you in any way at all?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:09 PM

F04- Story about your son is nice.

However, as for ANS - using your standards and judging one's life based on accomplishments - well, there aren't many where she is concerned - except for money. She made a lot of it, if that is an accomplishment.

Her sins were many, and when the bad far outweighs the good many don't take the time to remember the good. I think that is the case here.

Death is part of life and how we remember someone is very personal. It is opinion and perspective.

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 2:11 PM

"This perspective drives me crazy. You know, it actually is possible to disapprove of someone's choices without being jealous of them. I disapprove of Paris Hilton. God knows I'm not jealous of her."

Ditto.

And just because pornography is legal certainly doesn't mean that I want my kids to be a part of that industry in ANY capacity.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:11 PM

"We are to draw conclusions about others' choices in order to avoid making similar poor choices or in order to do our best to duplicate the good choices. Discrimination amongst life choices is a key survival skill and a pretty damn good test of values and priorities as well."

There's a big difference between learning from watching other's mistakes and successes and calling someone a loser or trash. One can be done with compassion and grace towards others and as you say, is an essential life skill. I don't see what value the other has at all, frankly.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 2:13 PM

My sister teaches kindergarten and has been trying for the past six months to get CPS intervention for a little boy who comes in with the most grotesque bruises. So far, no luck.

Can she call the cops? Anonymously, if need be? It's a CYA situation if something more happens to him and the reporters start sniffing around. I'd hate to hear that she got caught up in a lawsuit.

If it can happen to nurses, it can happen to teachers, you know?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:14 PM

Can she call the cops? Anonymously, if need be? It's a CYA situation if something more happens to him and the reporters start sniffing around. I'd hate to hear that she got caught up in a lawsuit.

I hope that is not the only reason why you or she cares. Call the cops for God's sake.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 2:17 PM

"I hope that is not the only reason why you or she cares."

So what if it were as long as the cops were called?

Does the motivation matter more than the action, or the outcome?

Posted by: disinterested bystander | February 9, 2007 2:20 PM

Personally, I find today's blog a nice segue from yesterday's.

I wonder if ANS ever said "no"? Or what she would say "no" to.

Obviously, not money.

Posted by: pbj | February 9, 2007 2:24 PM

yes, it does, people teaching children should care about their welfare. If I saw bruises on a child that were not normal bruises that could be explained with rough and tumble play, I would call the cops and use my name!

Sorry my first comment was gruff, but what just happened in Pittsburgh has me a bit shock up about child abuse.

You could also ask the kid what happened.

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 2:25 PM

What does this say for all the decent and average people who don't live for pure material satisfaction alone? I would imagine that those were the people that Ann Richards tried to stand up for.
Ms. Smith was entertaining, or at least tried to be. But her personal life and death were mostly only tragic, for both her and her family. I think her efforts in life should be commended as much as we commend the efforts of any other average Joe or Jane who might succeed in getting ahead...maybe somewhat less so given the methods behind her rise to fame. Did she serve as some kind of example? Only if one finds merit in the blind pursuit of fame and wealth. Truly, it's the glorification of this pursuit that leads to so many tragedies in our society in the lives of the famous, like Ms. Smith, and the not-so-famous alike. That's something to reflect on, don't you think?

Posted by: ttj | February 9, 2007 2:25 PM

"how certain is she that the bruises are cause by physical abuse? kids get bruises from all sorts of regular activities."

Yes, they do, but my sister has been teaching for ten years and has a pretty good read on what bruises are the result of standard kid activity and what bruises are the result of their parents whaling on them. When the kid comes in every single day with fresh bruises, it's unlikely to be because he keeps falling on the jungle gym.

She's tried the cops; unless she actually witnesses the kid's mom whaling on him, there's nothing they can do. She is worried about this kid and can be extremely relentless in the pursuit of her goals; I've no doubt that by the end of the year, CPS will be on the case, but it's disheartening that she *has* to be relentless about this.

I will note that during a parent-teacher conference, my husband witnessed a father start whaling on his daughter. They *did* call the cops, and the situation was handled.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 2:26 PM

"Her sins were many, and when the bad far outweighs the good many don't take the time to remember the good. I think that is the case here.

Death is part of life and how we remember someone is very personal. It is opinion and perspective."

cmac,

I agree wtih your second observation. Your first, though, seems an awful lot like judging.

"Her sins were many"? Who are we -- any of us -- to count the sins of others? Isn't that the province of (the Judeo-Christian) God?

And, unless you're omniscient, how do you know that the bad outweighed the good in her life?

I think you'd have been on the front lines at Salem, cheering for those luckless witches to be burned.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 2:30 PM

"I think you'd have been on the front lines at Salem, cheering for those luckless witches to be burned."

No one was burned at Salem. They were hanged.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 2:31 PM

Lizzie has you sister ask the boy what happened? If he says he is being beat, shouldn't the police be able to help him?

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 2:32 PM

Oh, and I do owe ANS a RIP for one rather positive effect she's had, considering my vocation--she pushed Lisa Marie's story off of the swooping vulture's top storyline. For that I find myself rather grateful.

Fof4: My deepest condolenses, and I just left a message on yesterday's blog for you.

Posted by: Texas Dad of 2 | February 9, 2007 2:32 PM

Honestly, the answer to Leslie's question was covered pretty darn well in the book, "Nickel and Dimed".

The biggest difference between ANS and Ann Richards in my view?

Ann Richards strived towards something. ANS took the easiest path she could find and dove straight to the bottom. Okay, she garnered tons of ca$h along the way--but that hardly makes her heroic or someone to put on a pedestal.

Which makes sense. It's always easier to fall down than to get up. Gravity works time and time again.

Someone here compared her to Lady Diana. Well, I don't know about that. At least we can point to Lady Diana getting involved in the whole land-mine issue. What did ANS put her considerable money and photo selling clout behind, besides herself?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:32 PM

*Pittypat only personally attacks anyone who disagrees with her.*

A bit of a hypocrit, doncha think?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:33 PM

Lady Diana also was publicly accepting of people with AIDS, at a time when others were still fearful.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:37 PM

"yes, it does, people teaching children should care about their welfare."

Scarry, it sounds as if the teacher does. What seems to have your knickers in a twist is whether the poster who used the phrase "CYA" had motives pure enough to suit you.

My question stands, does the motivation matter more to you than the action itself or the outcome?

Personally, I wouldn't care why someone called to have that kid examined. As long as it happens. Hopefully it will help him too.

Off-topic and in no way related to the kindergarten teacher cited above:

Let's not forget our Anna M. Salter, Ph.D. Pedophiles very often get into professions that will put them in the company of children purely for their own reasons. Have you read her book, "Predators", where she draws upon her work in the prison system?

They are among us.

ANS is the same ilk as Ken Lay. Hardly heroes or people I want my kids to emulate.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 2:41 PM

What does this say for all the decent and average people who don't live for pure material satisfaction alone? I would imagine that those were the people that Ann Richards tried to stand up for.
Ms. Smith was entertaining, or at least tried to be. But her personal life and death were mostly only tragic, for both her and her family. I think her efforts in life should be commended as much as we commend the efforts of any other average Joe or Jane who might succeed in getting ahead...maybe somewhat less so given the methods behind her rise to fame. Did she serve as some kind of example? Only if one finds merit in the blind pursuit of fame and wealth. Truly, it's the glorification of this pursuit that leads to so many tragedies in our society in the lives of the famous, like Ms. Smith, and the not-so-famous alike. That's something to reflect on, don't you think?

Posted by: ttj | February 9, 2007 02:25 PM
It seems she was on a hard path from the start(childhood) and had no real guidance from the start, hence the outcome. Its a shame no one ever stepped in to possibly give her that nudge to change coarse. I always feel compelled to tell friends and sometimes strangers my mistakes & bad choices...maybe bettering them and myself. Lets hope that her daughter learns from the good and bad from her mother, making her a better person as she grows up..

Posted by: Sad4SomeReason | February 9, 2007 2:43 PM

I'm sorry that her life was cut short. Nobody deserves that.

I think both she and Ann Richards were themselves. They did what they needed to do to get what they wanted and were successful.

A person could have a life that was less than that without too much trouble.

I particularly liked the part where she appeared before the Supreme Court, and darn if the court didn't find in her favor! Only in America.

I hope the 88 year-old she married had some happy moments with her.

Posted by: RoseG | February 9, 2007 2:45 PM

ANS would've had school teachers, maybe Sunday School teachers, and others in the community who could've set positive examples for her, and could've put her on a less self-destructive path in life.

Posted by: To Sad4SomeReason | February 9, 2007 2:47 PM

"Lizzie has you sister ask the boy what happened? If he says he is being beat, shouldn't the police be able to help him?"

She has spoken to him. He is fearful and his English is not so hot. I'll be honest: she teaches in a wealthy Arizona suburb and this kid and his family are Mexican immigrants. They are not too high on the cops' list of priorities. She will have better luck with CPS.

The first eight years of her career were spent at a magnet school in a Norfolk slum. There is nothing I can teach her about how to deal with CPS and the best way to get protection for kids. The fact that this is taking so long really really sucks, but no one here should get the impression that it's unusual. She's doing the best she can with the circumstances she's been given.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 2:49 PM

And I only brought up this instance in order to make the point that whatever ANS's flaws, it's highly unlikely that she bought her way out of CPS's sightline. It seems unlikely that her kids were actively abused; at worst, they were neglected, and it's practically impossible to get CPS to care much about a neglect case unless the kids are literally starving and living in their own filth. CPS wouldn't have been interested in her or her kids even if she had much less money.

Posted by: Lizzie | February 9, 2007 2:51 PM

"Her sins were many"? Who are we -- any of us -- to count the sins of others? Isn't that the province of (the Judeo-Christian) God?

And, unless you're omniscient, how do you know that the bad outweighed the good in her life?

I think you'd have been on the front lines at Salem, cheering for those luckless witches to be burned.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 02:30 PM

Pitty - this is why I used "opinion and persepctive" on death being personal. My opinion is that ANS's life was at a terrible imbalance - and yes, shockingly the bad in her life outweighed the good. What did she do with her money and fame? Nothing except self promote to get more of the same. Do I think she led a sinful life? Yes. Are we all sinners? Yes.

If your opinion is that the above puts me up there with the Salem witch trials, then I think you are the one with the warped opinion and perspective. You make some incredible leaps. I never called for her to be burned at the stake, I just won't "celebrate her life."

Funny you are accusing me of judging when you are doing the same. However, you are scoring more points with Leslie!

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 2:54 PM

"And just because pornography is legal certainly doesn't mean that I want my kids to be a part of that industry in ANY capacity."

Do you really think the parents of those who are involved want this for their kids? Yet, there is a demand. And the reality is that whether you want it or not, your kids will be exposed to it somehow. Through the internet, friends, curiosity...or even Dad's (or Mom's!) secret collection!

Posted by: well... | February 9, 2007 2:55 PM

Wow, Lizzie, that sucks but I'm glad that this boy has someone like your sister on his side - wish her good luck for us.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 2:55 PM

So, today's topics are:

A. Miss Smith

B. Clothes

I vote for

C. Latin Phrases

D. Purdue Diplomas

AG, Army Brat, are you out there? I have an update on grandpa's diploma.

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 2:58 PM

CMAC, I am sure Leslie was just "you go girl' cheering on that one from Pitty too.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 3:00 PM

CMAC, I am sure Leslie was just "you go girl' cheering on that one from Pitty too.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 03:00 PM

Oh yes, Pitty knows who her audience is!

Posted by: cmac | February 9, 2007 3:02 PM

Fred, I'll bite, what's your latin phrase of the day?

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 3:04 PM

"And just because pornography is legal certainly doesn't mean that I want my kids to be a part of that industry in ANY capacity."

Do you really think the parents of those who are involved want this for their kids?

No doubt there are those who do.

Yet, there is a demand. And the reality is that whether you want it or not, your kids will be exposed to it somehow. Through the internet, friends, curiosity...or even Dad's (or Mom's!) secret collection!

I never said they wouldn't be exposed to it, I said I didn't want them to be earning their livelihood via pornography.

But no, I don't have a secret stash of my own.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:05 PM

CMAC, my previous opinion of Leslie professionally has gone way way down. Anyone who is a fan of that that nuttiness needs to get evaluated.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 3:06 PM

Tempus Fugit?

Actually, I was looking for someone else to offer one today. My knuckles are still smarting from Sr. Blaize's ruler!

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 3:07 PM

pittypat, "Illegitimi Non Carborundum"

Posted by: Meesh | February 9, 2007 3:07 PM

This season has seen a "significant erosion" of the a.m. shows' "demographic sweet spot: 25- to 54-year-old women," with "almost" 450K or 10% of these women no longer tuning in. The combined viewership of NBC's "Today," ABC's "GMA" and CBS' "Early Show" "leveled off" in the last two seasons. In addition to loss of Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson to evening newscasts, the "advent of 'mommy blogs,' the growing popularity of online news sites and the ever-more frantic press of daily life appear to have led many women to forgo the morning ritual of watching TV."

A tidbit from THe Hotline today.

Seems as if these "mommy blogs", et al are doing in morning television...

Posted by: SAHMbacktowork | February 9, 2007 3:10 PM

MEESH, you got the bastards part reversed in this one.

Posted by: pATRICK | February 9, 2007 3:11 PM

On Latin,

I was speaking to my boss yesterday, he is a lawyer by training. He did not know the difference between ex officio and de facto. I was a bit surprised by that.

So class, your assignment today is to look up both phrases and use them at least twenty times in the next 3 days!

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 3:12 PM

So MSNBC has the Breaking News banner saying that Star Magazine reports that there was Zanax and Vicodin in ANS room! That's their source now? I believe that Star also has the headline woman gives birth to alien baby. I think things may have gone a little too far with this!

Posted by: moxiemom | February 9, 2007 3:14 PM

Illegitimi Non Carborundum.

"Don't let the bastards grind you down".

A "YOU GO GIRL" IN LATIN!

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 3:16 PM

Fred, I got nothin' for you on latin - I'm like your boss, a lawyer with no latin skills whatsoever. I hate it when I see latin phrases in decisions as I have no idea what it means. Though I had hoped to write an article while I was in school about the use of latin in the law to create credibility after learning how many of the legal latin phrases were made up in the 20th century. I even had a snappy title, but after my son was born I just didn't have it in me to do another major writing project.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 3:19 PM

Also apparently Zsa Zsa's husband says that he may be the father of ANS baby (I am not making this up) - when is Ashton Kutcher going to jump out to let us know we've been punk'd?

Posted by: moxiemom | February 9, 2007 3:19 PM

Is Vicky Iovine (author of "The Girlfriend Guides") also from Texas?

I know she posed for Playboy, went to law school (did she work as an attorney for any length of time), writes for some parenting magazine or another.

I certainly envy Iovine, but I don't begrudge her. She worked damn hard for all of her accomplishments.

ANS? She would have had to work hard to achieve shallow. She thrived at being surface.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:19 PM

Probably shouldn't divulge this info and I will remain anonymous! I danced for a short time and was in 3 porns, so I guess I have a secret collection on a whole other level. It was 10 yrs ago and a lifetime away- believe me! People would be SHOCKED and sometimes I'm horrified of the idea that people will find out, but I doubt it. Anyway...people can change- it's not necessarily doomsday to be a stripper at 16 or 17. Doesn't bode well, but you can pull out of that life. Same for porn. I was going through a tough time, drank a lot, did a lot of drugs. But I haven't touched that life for 10 yrs.
I still haven't figured out if I will ever tell my daughter- I doubt it.
I don't know ANS, so I can't presume to know if she's "trashy" or whatever. I'm certainly not trashy now.
quite fun to reveal that part of my past in an anonymous way! thanks for listening!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:20 PM

In Latin, the second case (you, your) was seldom used. If a peson were referring to him self, he would that "that person" or some other third person case.

But, You Go Girl, roughly in Latin "Virgo Agito!"

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 3:21 PM

I'm certainly not trashy now.
quite fun to reveal that part of my past in an anonymous way! thanks for listening!


Posted by: | February 9, 2007 03:20 PM

Wow, so what do you think was the difference between you and those who weren't able to pull out (no pun intended) of that lifestyle? I always find it interesting how some people can dabble and move on and others get sucked into stuff!

Posted by: moxiemom | February 9, 2007 3:23 PM

But, You Go Girl, roughly in Latin "Virgo Agito!"

VIRGO AGITO PITTY

I was referring the sentiment of the "dont let the bastards get you down." I never took latin, I took 4 years of spanish.

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 3:24 PM

Megan,

From what I understand about law (3 sem. hrs from a CSS), Latin and other specific phrases continue to be used today because the meaning has been basically adjudicated to death and believe it or not, most lawyers agree on the definitions.

NC Lawer, lobbed to you!

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 3:25 PM

Does anyone know how much money ANS earned from her modeling career?

Discounting the Playboy stuff too.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:25 PM

it's not necessarily doomsday to be a stripper at 16 or 17. Doesn't bode well, but you can pull out of that life. Same for porn. I was going through a tough time, drank a lot, did a lot of drugs. But I haven't touched that life for 10 yrs.""

I agree. Which is why the foolish/desperate things we do in our adolescence is a far cry from the things we do in our 20's. Or late-30's in the case of the newly deceased.

I'm surprised they have to preserve her body, can't they just get the tissue and hair samples now? And why are they doing this? Is there some question of her maternity? It's pretty easy to run a PCR and answer the "who's your daddy?" question.

I can get the results of a SCID test on my horses in less than a week from VetGen, after all.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:29 PM

moxiemom- I have great parents. Things were tough growing up with my dad;s drinking, but he's been sober for a little more than 10 yrs now (I quit my life about a yr after he stopped drinking). My mom has always been wonderful, but was definitely codependent and all of that fun stuff.
I grew up in a wealthy area, got good grades without even trying, and had access to every opportunity I could imagine.
It really was just a matter of realizing that I was the one who was pissing it away. I'm not sure why I even did it in the first place. I turned 14 and just kind of went crazy until I hit 20. I very nearly ruined it all and I'm very lucky I got through it safely.
It's as if I'm talking about a 2nd person even now.
I won't reveal my profession, lest it come back to bite me in the butt at a later date on this blog, but I have a graduate degree and a great career now.
Thanks for being nice about it moxiemom!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:31 PM

"Zsa Zsa's Husband: I Might Be Baby's Dad"

This is over at the associated press. Yes, I am for real. It was just emailed to me by a friend.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ANNA_NICOLE_SMITH?SITE=AZTUC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Posted by: scarry | February 9, 2007 3:33 PM

To: Posted by: | February 9, 2007 03:20 PM
(Serious comment)
We all have situations in our past that our children do not need to know. What would it benefit them? (unless they were about to repeat that behavior) There are some things in my life that I am not particulary proud of. My father was busted in WWII for being AWOL. It was really no big deal, the war had ended, he just stayed in Houston too long. Made back the rank the next month! It took him 40 years to tell me and he said that he was not particually proud of it


(Not a serious comment)
Of course, my shame, revealed here is that I went to a CSS.

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 3:33 PM

I found this for an earlier poster:

Vicki Iovine
Vicky McCarty Playboy centerfold
appearance September 1979
Birthplace Los Angeles, California
Birthdate January 13 1954 (age 52)
Measurements 33½" - 22" - 34"
Height 5 ft 7 in
Weight 105 lbs.
Preceded by Dorothy Stratten
Succeeded by Ursula Buchfellner
Vicki McCarty Iovine (born Vicki McCarty on 13 January 1954 in Los Angeles, California) is an American model, writer, and lawyer. She was Playboy magazine's Playmate of the Month for its September 1979 issue. Her centerfold was photographed by Arny Freytag.

Vicki graduated summa cum laude from the University of California, Berkeley and earned membership in the Phi Beta Kappa society. She received a law degree from Hastings College of Law in 1980. She also earned an advanced degree in public international law from Cambridge University. She was a practicing attorney for several years.

Vicki came to the attention of Playboy when, while applying for an internship with the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, she set out to do an article on the magazine's 25th Anniversary Great Playmate Hunt. She set up an interview with Playboy to be considered for the centerfold and showed up in a bikini, with her Phi Beta Kappa pin attached to the bottoms. The internship and article never happened, but her selection as a Playmate did. Her pictorial ran in the same issue as the famed first "Girls of the Ivy League" layout, and much was made of her intellect in the resulting publicity.

In the fall of 1982, Vicki tested for the hostess job on Wheel of Fortune appearing on the show for a few weeks. The position was eventually given to Vanna White.

She published The Girlfriends' Guide to Pregnancy in 1995, a successful book that launched a series of related guides, all written by Vicki.

She is a member of the board of directors of the Special Olympics, as well as a former television producer and radio talk show host. She is married to record producer and founder of Interscope Records Jimmy Iovine. They have four children.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:33 PM

oh my, "biddies under hairdryers"...never heard that before but it's awfully apt today!

Posted by: Leslie | February 9, 2007 3:37 PM

Ok, I didn't realize who Vicki Iovine was married to!
I read her books and they were funny, but I now have a completely different take on it! She must be absolutely loaded and have more nannies/cooks/cleaners than I can imagine. Wow- no wonder she made it sound funny and easy- she didn't have to do the hard stuff!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:38 PM

Thanks for being nice about it moxiemom!

Posted by: | February 9, 2007 03:31 PM

You are welcome. I believe that there is a very fine line between all of us and some of the stuff you speak of. If things in my life had gone a little differently (different friends, different parents....), who knows? I did my fair share of partying. That's why Girls Gone Wild scares me so much now that I'm a mom. I'm not sure that the drunk 20 year old me wouldn't have been a part of that. I'm glad you are on the other side, because I believe that industry can be so very destructive. I'm sure you learned some very valuable very hard lessons that you'd like to share with your dd, but how? I ask myself the same question. HOpefully it will come to me when the time comes.

Posted by: moxiemom | February 9, 2007 3:39 PM

Height 5 ft 7 in
Weight 105 lbs

Vicki is a bit anorexic


oh my, "biddies under hairdryers"...never heard that before but it's awfully apt today!

Posted by: Leslie | February 9, 2007 03:37 PM


OUCH!

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 3:44 PM

Leslie, please excuse me--this is also off-topic but it's a small part of an interview of Jimmy Iovine. I dunno, they may be more hands-on parents than we realize. Perhaps that is far too optimistic of me...

====================================

As a parent--not as a chairman of Interscope or president of Farm Club--does the state of the culture worry you in any respect?

Well, no more than it worried my mother and my father, who were Italian and lived in Brooklyn. My father was a longshoreman. . . . It worried them when I wanted to go to the Village to see Sly and the Family Stone or the Doors. They were scared stiff; they didn't relate to it. They didn't know what to do with it. I don't know how other people feel, but the more they put it down, the more I stood up. It's a bit like fishing. You have to let the line out occasionally on your kids, or else they're going to snap it, right? They'll break the line on it. And to be very frank with you, it is really not different. They could say it was it was a better America in 1950 or a better America in 1960 and it was lousy in the 1970s. I don't think every home is perfect. So you have to really navigate your kids and navigate with them.

Is that a harder job now?

I don't think it is. I think it was really hard when my parents were bringing me up in the 1960s, when that explosion happened. And I thought it was much more difficult then. We have much more communication now, so it's more evident now. There are 60 channels with nothing on now. There's all this TV and media. If the president has a problem, there isn't a soul in America who doesn't know it. My kids ask me more about that than they did about any Eminem record or any DMX record. They wanted to know about that, because they were interested in that.

We have a lot of things going on in the country in media that are frightening. I have to watch my kids every day . . . with the television and the remote control. . . . It's impossible to watch them 24 hours a day. . . . You can try to legislate control over the popular media. And everybody will obey the laws and whatever the laws are, the laws are. But it's nearly impossible.

So, in the end, it's about the parents?

I think it's about your community. I think it's about parenting. It's about parents talking to each other. I learn more from my kids and from my kids' friends' parents about what was going on. And I do the best I can to give them the best information I can. There are too many examples of people that were brought up in super-religious households that weren't allowed to watch TV that turned out to be all screwed up. And the most bizarre situation can turn out a great kid. I don't know where the line is drawn.

It's too easy to forget that, in the early 1990s, when hip hop was being aggressively attacked like that, there was a lot of racism involved. There was a lot of, "Hey, not only is this music scary--look who's making it." That was the undertone of the thing. If anybody denied that, it's just crap.

So, I don't know. I don't see why it's worse than when I grew up as a teenager in the 1960s. I think that was really scary. Of course we were we were looking at a country that was exploding, with the Vietnam War and all. . . . It was a much crazier time than it is right now.

It's interesting that you say that, because people say that now the rage is undirected. It doesn't have a focus, and therefore there's something more illegitimate about it--that it's spoiled kids mouthing off.

I've not done that kind of research. And I'd be really stepping out of my area to speak about that. But every generation runs the risk that we both would like to become our parents and, at the same time, are scared stiff of becoming them. . . . A lot of my friends felt the same way. It's amazing. Every time something new comes up, as much as you try to resist it, you say, "Oh, my God, the 'The Simpsons.' I hate 'The Simpsons.'" And they say, "Oops. I sound like my father." "The Simpsons" is harmless. It is what it is, and it's funny.

Do you do you let your kids listen to Marilyn Manson, Eminem, Limp Bizkit?

I draw the line on everything with my kids. I talk to my kids about everything. And if they're too young at the time and I think something is not for them . . . they don't have it. I read the parental advisory. I take it literally. I look at ratings on movies. I take them literally. And I try to do what's in the best interest of my kid. . . .

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:44 PM

Height 5 ft 7 in
Weight 105 lbs

Vicki is a bit anorexic

That stat was from her Playboy day(s). I doubt she is the same now.

Her BMI was 16.44 at that time. I don't know if that would technically qualify as anorexic.

Posted by: MdMother | February 9, 2007 3:46 PM

3:20 poster, thank you for sharing that. You seem to be a great example of someone who made serious mistakes, did what she had to to move on, and went on to build a good life. I have a lot of respect for that. To me, that's a completely different category than what at least I've been complaining about today, which is more about our society's celebration and even veneration of the pursuit of celebrity and fame and wealth for its own sake, no matter the cost to get there.

Posted by: Laura | February 9, 2007 3:47 PM

BMI interpretation for people 16 years or older:

below 16 serious anorexia
16-18,4 underweight, anorexia
18,6-24,9 normal weight
25-29,9 overweight
30-34,9 obesity
above 35 grave obesity
Note: Very well-trained people can have a somewhat higher BMI than other's without being overweight.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:48 PM

5'7" and 105. Um, yeah, that's way too skinny and unhealthy. I would pass out of I were that skinny and I'm 5'4" and a healthy size 4 120 lbs

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:48 PM

I've seen some ultramarathon runners with similar stats.

I guess we will have to depend upon Master Baytor to tell us if she was too skinny then or not. Sounds like his sort of research.

MB?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 3:50 PM

From Verizon home page:

Producer Options Astronaut Kidnap Tale

LOS ANGELES - You knew this was coming. The strange saga of the astronaut who traveled 900 miles to allegedly try to murder a rival for the affections of a fellow astronaut will be turned into a movie.
Granada America has optioned the film rights to a New York Times article on Lisa Nowak, 43, who was arrested Monday and charged with attempted murder.

Nowak, a Navy captain and mother of three, wore diapers during her trip so she wouldn't have to stop for bathroom breaks. Once in Orlando, she confronted Colleen Shipman, whom she believed was involved in a relationship with Navy Cmdr. William Oefelein, a space shuttle pilot.

Nowak brought with her a trench coat, a wig, a BB gun and pepper spray.

Granada America, which has produced made-for-TV films based on other real-life personalities, optioned a Times article written by reporter John Schwartz, who will serve as a researcher on the project.

Financial terms were not disclosed. The company said the story will be developed either for a feature or television film.

"The chronicle of Lisa Marie Nowak has had a global impact and contains almost every dramatic element possible," Granada America CEO David Gyngell said Friday. "One could not imagine a more compelling story."

Granada America is the U.S.-based production entity of ITV, one of Europe's largest broadcasters and producers. The company produced the reality series "Hell's Kitchen" and "Nanny 911" as well as the Lifetime channel movie "The Fantasia Barrino Story

Posted by: KLB SS MD | February 9, 2007 3:53 PM

No illegal drugs but prescription drugs in the room of ANS. Waiting for toxicology results.

Posted by: KLB SS MD | February 9, 2007 4:01 PM

A few days ago, I mentioned I would go ahead and post an email address over the weekend for those of you who might want to take the risk of forming friendships beyond the anonymous blog. Friday afternoon is weekend enough as far as I'm concerned.

Please don't take this as a snide gesture as an attempt to get individuals from posting to this blog.

1. If you send an email to this account, make sure you include your posting name. If I recognize your posting name, I will add it to the distribution list.

2. About 2 times a week, if I get any responses, I will add any new names to the list and redistribute.

3. The list will be kept a guarded secret except for those who signed up.

4. Please, for your own identity safety, don't use a work email address. Use a Hotmail or Yahoo account or something.

So, without further ado, I'll go first and post my email account where you can reach me at:

MommyBlogger2007@verizon.net

Posted by: Father of 4 | February 9, 2007 4:05 PM

I get the impression that when talented musicians die from overdoses of illegal narcotics, you consider it impermissible to draw the conclusion that consuming illegal narcotics is a poor choice because -- wow, look at that bad outcome from that choice -- Posted by: NC lawyer | February 9, 2007 01:41 PM

Looks like it was not illegal drugs.........Back to why are we assuming conclusions..........

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 4:07 PM

Fred, on latin phrases, I think some continue to be used for that reason, others are used because a lawyer or judge wants to show off, and many are used as a way of giving an idea some form of weight and credibility. The only made up one I remember is that "forum non conveniens" was first used in 1937; it's a doctrine that allows a court to dismiss a case if there is a more convenient forum. There's no reason for the doctrine to have a latin name, it was a new doctrine at the time and the phrase was made up to describe it. But I guess it seemed more credible or weighty to say "forum non conveniens" than "inconvenient forum". Nutty.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 4:10 PM

whoops, before some other lawyer busts me, I should have said the phrase appeared sometime in the 30s, possibly a bit earlier but not much. It was first used in some state court decisions around that time.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 4:13 PM

My husband always says this and today's comments just support his statement. Women will never get more than a small corner in the world of money and power because all we do is tear each other down. Men always stick together.

Posted by: Paula | February 9, 2007 4:19 PM

Thanks Laura and moxiemom- you know, it's good to share this. My parents still don't know everything (they think I waitressed). Now everyone will be wondering who the stripper/porn "star" is on the blog.(I've never understood why a person in a porn is always a star, but...anyway)

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 4:22 PM

forum non conveniens

LOL, forum non conveniens literally translates as "forum not convenient!"

I always like "et ux" as it makes clear that it is the current spouse that is being referred to and not one or more ex wives.

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 4:25 PM

Posted by: | February 9, 2007 04:22 PM

Are you a regualar poster under another name or a regular lurker? Curious minds demand an answer!

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 4:27 PM

Anonymous poster, I love that you shared that story about your past. One of the highschool kids that used to babysit me went on to become a porn star, I have an autographed poster from her that she gave me when she came back to visit when I was in junior high - it always fascinated me that she was so unabashed by it and I've often wondered what she does now. I hope she's as well on the other end of it as it sounds like you have.

Posted by: Megan | February 9, 2007 4:29 PM

Leslie - I pity your husband. poor poor man.

Posted by: dc | February 9, 2007 4:29 PM

pittypat, "Illegitimi Non Carborundum"

Thanks, Meesh.

And they don't.

Posted by: pittypat | February 9, 2007 4:31 PM

My husband always says this and today's comments just support his statement. Women will never get more than a small corner in the world of money and power because all we do is tear each other down. Men always stick together.

Posted by: Paula | February 9, 2007 04:19 PM


If there was an equivalent of ANS in a male celebrity I would be saying the same things - if that is what you are referring to.

Also, men do not always stick together - particularly on this blog. F04, Fred, TD of 2 (I'm sure there are others) have all had choice words for other male posters on this blog.

Can't really pidgeon hole people on this blog - they are all over the map.

Posted by: CMAC | February 9, 2007 4:38 PM

Fred- I'm sorry, I will not divulge any more info. After thinking about ANS's life, it brought me back and I just needed to share some things. I don't want anyone figuring it out because then I'll always be the porn chick- it's the furthest thing from the truth now and it's nice to be taken seriously.

Megan- i was certainly very aware of and flaunted my sexuality then. Of course I wasn't comfortable with it or I wouldn't have acted that way. I'm actually MUCH more comfortable sexually now. My husband is the only one who gets to watch my "show" now and it's much better than it used to be!

I really thought i was taking a gamble and would be bashed for the confession- I am pleasantly surprised!

have a good weekend everyone!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 4:38 PM

You should say nothing but good about the dead, and she's dead. Good.

BTW, John F. Kennedy, Jr. was the father of her baby.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 4:39 PM

"Fred- I'm sorry, I will not divulge any more info."

OK, I can respect that. Very titillating though!

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 4:46 PM

Fred -

If you're still around, what's the update on the diploma??

Been mostly lurking today since I wasn't a huge fan of the topic.

Posted by: AG | February 9, 2007 4:46 PM

AG,

Baby brother is suppose to bring it down from other bro next weekend--but it is Mardi Gras so I hope it gets here.

More interesting is that I wrote a note to Purdue Alum Assoc. asking if they might want to display or (possibly) have it for the collection. Alum director wrote me back saying that they have examples from those early years. Most be the red brick that preserves the documents.

Anyway, when I receive it, I will take it to the local historical society to see about preservation and copying. It is an original, it has the University seal etc. Will let you know about the size, language and other stuff when I have it.

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 4:52 PM

Re: ANS- I mainly think of her as just one more train wreck fueled by drugs, money, and celebrety. I usually feel more pity than either admiration or contempt for people like this. Addictions are hard to break.
However, if the rich old man really did have Alzheimer's when she married him, I do feel contempt for someone who is willing to take advantage of someone else's incapacitated state. Guess we'll all find out more of the details about this as the estate and paternity cases progress. I hope her daughter ends up in the cudstody of someone who will be a good parent. She'll always be haunted by knowing about her mother but not having any memories of her.

Posted by: SheGeek | February 9, 2007 5:02 PM

Fred -

Cool! I know two main things to do if you get it framed. Ask for acid-free matting and cardboard backing, and check and see if you can get UV filter glass. The filter will prevent it from fading, and the acid-free stuff will keep the paper from deteriorating. Or so sayeth a relative of mine who has 150 year old maps framed.

Posted by: AG | February 9, 2007 5:07 PM

AG,

Yea, thanks. I kind of forgot about the diploma with some many other things going on in my house. Since I have the house back together and actually have some spare time, your note reminded me to look into what bro. has done/not done and take up the cause, so to speak!

Posted by: Fred | February 9, 2007 5:22 PM

This blog is my blog,
this blog is your blog.
this blog was made for you and me . . .
Hey, look, it's drifting out to sea . . .

Posted by: Judith | February 9, 2007 5:25 PM

or as the bumper sticker says, this blog is like a bowl of cereal - once you get rid of the fruits and nuts, all you have left are the flakes.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 6:03 PM

THIS BLOG HAS JUMPED THE SHARK - I BET ANN RICHARDS IS ROLLING IN HER GRAVE

Posted by: Anonymous | February 9, 2007 6:05 PM

I hope that ANS doesn't have a sage green lining in her casket.

Posted by: The Original Anon | February 9, 2007 6:05 PM

oh the original anon...that is terrible. I'm trying not to laugh, which makes me terrible too.

Posted by: dotted | February 9, 2007 8:49 PM

Ann may have had the trappings of success - but she also was alchoholic.

Anna my have been born poor - but don't blame her situation on being raised by a single mom. Anna made her own choices.

Posted by: Ann vs. Anna | February 12, 2007 8:23 AM

Ann may have had the trappings of success - but she also was alchoholic.

Anna my have been born poor - but don't blame her situation on being raised by a single mom. Anna made her own choices.

Posted by: Ann vs. Anna | February 12, 2007 8:23 AM

Anna Nicole Smith's death was untimely and unfortunate, and for many poignant and even heart-rending. Those are several words that come to mind to describe this cheerless fact. Tragic, however, is not one of them. Let us reserve this description for truly remarkable events, such as the tragedy of war or the tragic demise of a great person. These, we sadly encounter often enough as it is.

Posted by: shaking through | February 12, 2007 9:16 AM

Leslie, what an incredibly snobbish thing to do: compare two women from two totally different backgrounds, and then trashing the woman who didn't have much, i.e. ANS. Wow you are so self-righteous, aren't you? Who made you God and better than everyone else? This tends to be a theme for you: using a forum of MBA's and PhD mothers and how they deal with professional life and family balance; who can afford to stay at home with their kids and who can't; who drives an SUV and who doesn't. Geez lady, get a grip! Most of us are average women trying to make the best of what we have and what we can give to our families. Come down to our level for once.

Posted by: Another Mommie | February 12, 2007 2:42 PM

Last night I heard Zsa Zsa Gabor's husband say the father of Anna Nicole's baby could be any one of about 20 or 30 men including himself. As a woman that is NOT a great legacy to leave behind. Anna Nicole was not a great role model to teen-age girls. She was a classic example of what not to do.

Posted by: Ms.Pooh | February 14, 2007 11:39 AM

I couldn't make it through the 300+ comments, but for the record, Ann Richards was not the first governor of Texas. This was Ma Ferguson.
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/FF/ffe6.html

Posted by: Jesse | February 15, 2007 9:28 AM

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