Wow, a 5 year old is now doomed to being labeled a non-athlete. Give the kid a break. Let him play in recreational leagues if he is happy doing it. If he still likes it as he gets older, he may develop skills. My daughter used to just run around the field nowhere near the ball at age 5 and is now in select soccer.

As a pediatrician, I don't think preschool kids should be in "leagues". They should be encouraged to play--free play, develop social skills and have fun.

Have to agree. At 5, you have no idea whether or not your kid is a "jock". I didn't pick up a bat until I was 9, was mediocre through little league...but went on to play Division 1 baseball. My parents are both hopelessly unathletic.

When I was a kid, it was hard because both my sister and I were inclined to athleticism. Neither of us were stars or anything, but we both enjoyed (and still enjoy) many sports.

The hardest part for me, as the older-by-a-year child, was that my sister was always frustrated when she couldn't do it, whatever "it" was: hit a ball, catch a grounder, catch a football while being covered. She's fall, she'd get hurt, she'd screw her face up into a contortion of irritation. Then, she'd cry and stomp home, and it always seemed that I got in trouble. :) I'm kidding (though it really seemed that way!), but it always ended the fun.

The challenge was for my parents to handle the fact that my sister didn't have the skills I had (because I was a year older) or the fortitude to deal with some of the rougher aspects of sports. My parents handled it awfully, making me play with kid gloves on her, or punishing me when she got hurt or replaced by me in a league game or something. I've always favored the "treat them equally" idea for kids around the same age, but I understand the idea of giving concessions to people who obviously have less skill (though not in league play). I learned a new sport at 22, and learned the hard way. Now I'm pretty tough and decent enough at it (after almost six years) that I play on a travel team and was invited to try out for the sport's national team.

So my question, then, is, how do you handle two children who play the same sports but are at different levels?

I have to agree that labeling a kid at 5 is a bit dramatic. I am also a bit stunned that a mom would want to discourage her 5 year old from her enjoyment of gymnastics. Does it bother the kid that she doesn't get medals? If it does, well, find a gymnastics class that engages the kids without ranking them. There are plenty of those around. My 5 year old loved her classes at the YMCA, and they were equally encouraging to kids with very different skill levels.

"And how do you foster fitness in non-athletic kids?"

My kids are 5 and 8, and I have no idea if they are athletic or not. They love to ride bikes, use their scooters, skate, throw and kick balls around, and the 8 year old was the hula hoop champion at her after school care program. We walk sometimes walk to the grocery store (not for a full shopping trip, but just to pick up what fits in a couple of backpacks). We go hiking in the Shenandoah National Park and go on nature walks locally. They love to swim in the summer, and are generally found on the playground at the afterschool program. They enjoy going ice skating, running around, etc.

Eventually I may learn whether they are athletic or not, but if finding out involves being on a team sport, it could be a while. I don't have time for that sort of thing. We are active when it fits our schedule. When we'd rather be playing a game inside, we do that, since we make our own schedule.

Racehorses, Racehorses. Too many people treat their kids like race horses -- racing them against the other kids, lining them up at the starting gate and then betting on them and basing an awful lot of their self-esteem on whether or not they do well. I hate it. Hated it when I was a kid. Hate it as a parent -- but I have no idea how to change the dynamic, especially when so many parents buy into it.

When my son was in kindergarten, he was routinely benched in soccer by a pushy coach who had a somewhat different idea about what the recreational soccer league in our town was for. That's how a five year old learns that he's not good at sports and should just give up.
The thing to keep in mind is that most of our children will not grow up to be pro athletes nor will they go to college on an athletic scholarship. Even those kids who routinely win all the medals and trophies and games aren't necessarily going to reap any long term gains from it. We've had some luck with sports leagues at places like church, rather than through the community center. The fact that there's no way to go up a level to the travel team or whatever seems to keep most of the crazy competifamilies out.

And my personal advice -- avoid any sports league where the moms and dads wear spirit wear with the team names on it. It's code for "I'm way too deeply enmeshed with my child to ever be rational." Same goes for schools and preschools, too, I think.

I am kind of shocked by the Nadia comment and Stacy's comments. They seem really harsh to me. I am glad my parents weren't like that.

I started playing soccer when I was 6. I used to do cartwheels in the backfield when the ball was on the other side of the field. My dad would gently remind me from the sidelines that I shouldn't do cartwheels during the soccer games. I went on to play soccer in rec leagues and during my freshmen year in high school. I ended up not playing any more in school after that because I wanted to pursue other after school activities. But, at age 33, I am still playing co-ed rec soccer here in DC.

As for gymnastics, I took that for several years as well. We had ribbons and medals that were given out. I generally got the lowest ribbon in my class for each category. I took gymnastics because I liked doing it. I wasn't great at it. I was a chicken and was afraid to do all of the backflips without a spotter. But, I loved to watch the other girls do them. It was great exercise and I liked the workouts. My parents supported me with the gymnastics by saying, "You love going and doing it. It's OK if you aren't the best at it. There are so many things you are great at. If you ever want to stop doing it, that's fine. But as long as you want to continue taking gymnastics, we will support that, because it is good for you and you like it. We don't care if you come in last place for every category and you shouldn't care either." And, you know what? I didn't care. I loved it. Eventually, I moved on to other activities.

Kids don't have to be the best at sports to enjoy them. Even now, I run in races (10Ks mostly) and am as slow as molassas, but I run because it is good for me and I enjoy the experience of running with others. Teaching kids that there is something more important than winning and being MVP is an essential part of being a parent.

I should add that the cartwheels in the backfield is a huge family joke now. Everyone talks about how cute it was. No one was mad. But, from the stories I hear about parents now, I can't see that going over well. I think everyone would have written off my career as a soccer player.

There was a study last year that showed that kids born earlier in the school year were more often found in the high school football team. They speculated that when these kids were really young, they outperformed their peers in classroom sports, since they were slightly older than their peers. As "star athletes" they were then given extra attention throughout school, leading them to develop better sports skilss and ultimately become better players. I don't know if it is really true, but i think it's a good point that a 5yo probably is less coordinated (etc) than a 5 1/2 yo. These ages are too young to distinguish kids by their so-called sports ability.

I think something that is important for hleping kids enjoy sports is to become reasonably competent at some basic skills. I work as often as possible with my kids on throwing, catching, and kicking balls. I think if they feel they can do some stuff well, it will drive them to do more. As a kid I could never catch a ball and I was always picked last for team sports because I was a liability to my team.

by m @ 9:20 am

"I think something that is important for hleping kids enjoy sports is to become reasonably competent at some basic skills. I work as often as possible with my kids on throwing, catching, and kicking balls."

I definately think that this is true, especially from the perspective that the kids are (I get the impression) also learning to enjoy the activity. You're not only modeling the skill for them, you're demonstrating how happy it makes you. The same would be true if you were taking them hiking or anything else.

I remember my parents encouraging me in sports (soccer for me) though I don't recall them actually doing it themselves. To contrast, hiking, swimming, and whitewater sports my parents were more involved in personally and enjoyed emmensely. I stopped playing soccer after high school, but I still love getting out in nature.

I went through doubts about both my kids and soccer. I concluded early on that my son would never be a soccer player and took him out of the sport. He just wasn't into it. Maybe I should have been a bit more patient but he also had scouts and baseball. Eventually music became his thing. In high school he plays sports for fun and recreation.

I was about to give up on my daughter at about the same age but a coach talked me out of it. Besides, that girl loves to run and what better sport is there for a kid who loves to run. Now she's playing for the best soccer club in town.

I think that you should definitely find a sport for your kid, no matter what else their "thing" is or how naturally athletic they are. Not all kids are meant to play team sports. We are lucky to have so many choices -- do a little experimenting and try to find something your kid loves (skating, swimming).

My mother took me to ballet class at the age of 3 and was the ultimate stage mother. By the time I was 9, I was on pointe. I was in 32 professional productions before the age of 12 (Nutcracker, Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc.) At 14, I rebelled and quit. My ankles and feet were destroyed and I lost my love of dancing. I know I'll never do that to my daughter!!

The practice of giving medals and trophies to all kids at the end of a season or class is an interesting one. When I was growing up, the champion team in league got trophies and we got no medals just for taking a gymnastics class. What do others think? Should kids be getting trophies and medals just for participating or should such awards be limited to those teams and individuals who stand out?

On the competition aspect... My youngest plays softball and soccer at pretty high levels of competition -- the tournaments, high pressure, etc. I push her hard and get her private lessons and am always bargaining with her and her dad to get her out in the backyard throwing the ball around. If she's going to play at this level she has to put extra time into skill building. I justify the extra work and pressure in that I feel that I'm preparing her to play or coach as an adult. Her athletic skill is her gift. If her gift was intellectual, I'd have her in the gifted program at school. Same difference.

We're into allstar tryouts now in softball and the looney parents are coming out. I hate to say it but some politicing seems to be necessary to make the top teams. But parents who are out of control or push too hard hurt their kids chances of getting on the best teams. I also notice that the kids with the parents who are extreme are the kids who cry alot. My philosophy is to make sure she's properly trained, get her on teams that play at an appropriate level and then when the game starts, relax, back-off and cheer for all the kids.

We need to step back from the edge when we're talking about whether a 5 year old is athletic. Who cares?!

At this age kids should be playing, running, climbing, etc. There isn't a need for so many organized sports at this age.

And as for the trophies, please. No more trophies. We don't need to bolster and build self-confidence with trophies. And, in competitive sports like soccer, baseball, etc. there actually are winners and losers with respect to the game. Kids know this, and can survive it just fine.

Kids aren't nearly as delicate as we make them out to be. They don't need to be the best as everything or so supported and cheered for every step they take.

One last thing -- regarding kids born earlier in the year and success in sports. IF you have a kid you think has the ability to play sports well and IF that kid was born late in the year DO consider waiting a year to start him/her in school.

I felt a sense of relief reading today's post. My 10 yo daughter loves soccer, but I don't think she truly 'gets' it. She plays much like the poster's 5 yo. But she has friends on the team and loves running around. I figure that by the time she realizes she isn't very good, she will have found another interest and things will take their course. For now, I attend the games but keep my mouth shut and I take her to practice as long as she is having fun.

I run a 500-something girl softball program in the DC suburbs. I've coached boys' baseball, girls' basketball, co-ed soccer, and girls' volleyball in addition to softball. Based on that and my own four children's experiences, I can offer the following:

1 - 5 years old is way too young to decide if somebody is athletic or not. Some of the clumsiest kids at that age are the best ball players (and best at other sports, too) in their late teens. It's not just what you're born with, it's how well you use it. Yes, this child may not ever be an Olympic gold medal winner, but she can certainly be a very good gymnast with support and coaching - IF THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTS.

2 - FWIW, our program accepts girls starting at age six (Spring of their first grade year). The 6 - 8 year old league is instructional - they bat against a pitching machine, and we don't keep scores or standings. (Although the girls themselves certainly do.) At 9 (or earlier if they're ready) they move up to a competitive league. But it's still recreational; the focus is primarily learning the game and enjoying the team environment, with winning second. We do offer a travel program starting at 9 & 10 that's much more serious. The program runs all the way up through 18 year olds; some of our 17 & 18 year olds are varsity athletes looking for extra softball; others are girls who don't play in high school but want to stay fit and enjoy the cameraderie. The point is to put the players in an environment that's right for them - super-competitive and challenging for the best and most committed players; recreational for those most interested in enjoying the team and the game.

3 - That part about "if that's what she wants" in point 1 - I meant that. At the younger ages, you can tell which kids want to be there and which ones are forced there by mom and dad. It's a matter of which ones are having more fun, and that's what's important. We want them to have a life-long love of the game. Yes, some of our girls do go on to play college softball, and that's great, but it's a small minority and if we ran the program for them we'd fold last week.

4 - If they really want to do it, support them by finding them appropriate activities/coaching for their skill level. With my own daughters, they hit a point where I'd taught them all I could. The middle daughter is the least athletic of all, but she likes the game the most and works the hardest, so I provided her sessions with a top-notch hitting coach. She's on the high school team. She wasn't expected to play much, but the later in the season it gets, the more she's on the field. As I said, she's the least athletic of my kids, but she works the hardest and she's having the best results. She'll never play for the US National team, but that's not my goal.

5 - team sports, when treated properly, are amazing opportunities for fun and growth. Sure, individual sports are fine - I ran track and cross-country in high school; I've played competitive golf and tennis. But just watch what happens to that shy, quiet little 7-year old girl the first time her teammates cheer her on; the first time she discovers that they have her back when she makes an error; the first time they greet her at home plate after a home run. It can bring out all that potential she'd had hidden away.

6 - The coach has to make sure that the team is a team. If the players (and parents) mock a kid who makes an error or strikes out at a crucial time, that's a bad sign. The coaches should be teaching them to figure out what went wrong and to get 'em next time. The team will follow that lead. The kid who makes the big play should be celebrated, but only a little more than the rest of the team, because that kid can't win by herself, I will guarantee that. I once had a pitcher who was awesome; she struck out nine batters - in two innings! The catcher couldn't hang on to the third strike, so the batter wasn't out, and the dominant pitcher didn't win the game - we lost by three runs; the three that scored after getting on base via dropped third strikes. The pitcher learned to work with her catcher, and trust her - and we won the championship when the pitcher struck out the side on nine pitches - none of which were dropped - in the last inning.

7 -And never, ever take things too seriously. They're kids. They're playing a game. Relax, enjoy it, and enjoy them. They go off to college and on their own soon enough.

Jane, you yourself sound like one of the looney parents. If you have to bargain with your own kid to get her to try harder?...First, the chances of a DI scholarship are slim to start (granted, financially worth it, so if that's your angle I reckon I could understand, but she better be really good).

As for the whole preparing her to play or coach as an adult? She won't be playing competitive softball as an adult. 15 women make the Olympic squad. There is no pro softball. And she doesn't need to make the all-star squad to be able to coach. She needs a MS in Education.

montgomery4, we give our 8-and-under players participation medals, because they've put about three months into games and practices by the time the season's over. (It's a four-week preseason, then 16-game regular season plus at least one practice a week during the regular season.)

At all higher levels, regular season champs get trophies. Playoff champs and runners-up get trophies; if the league's big enough the third- and fourth-place teams get medals.

It means a lot more when they won them.

I absolutely DO want my kid to play sports in high school. Soccer, softball, swim, dive, whatever... If she loves it enough to play in college, that's great. I'm saving for college so I'm not looking for a scholarship in anything. As to the MS in Education or maybe Biology -- yes, that's on the list. Since she's a girl, there aren't many opportunities to play professionally. But the best coaches are people who've played extensively. If she wants to be a coach she will have been trained by the best.

jane jetson, completely agree on the politicking in some cases. Good programs don't allow politicking to influence team selection because that impacts results - you don't win.

A bigger issue is perception of politicking. "That kid's on the team because she's the star's best friend." "...or because she's the daughter of the coach's best friend" "... or because her parents donated thousands of dollars to the organization." That may be the case, but it's likely not to be. In our program last year, we had 40 girls try out for a travel team that could take 15. By any measure, some very, very good players had to be cut, but the coaches (I was one of them) tried to put together a team that would work together, not just pick the best 15 players. It was easier for someone whose daughter was not selected to say "it's because of politics" than "they already had five pitchers, they needed a catcher and DD is not a catcher". (We wound up rounding up some more coaches and putting together an additional team, but the hurt feelings still exist.)

I stand corrected...there is women's pro softball - the National Pro Fastpitch league has 7 seven teams.

Looney parents:

- if the mother of one of your players is taunting other people's 12 year old daughters, it's a bit too looney. (Yes, I've seen this happen; we banned the mother in question from attending any more tournaments.)

- if the mother of another one of your players is arguing with the other team's coaches, it's a bit too looney. (That also happened last year.)

- if the parents are running around after a game hollering "we won! we won!" It's probably too looney. I don't think *they* particularly did anything.

- when a girl swings at a bad pitch and misses, and Dad comes running up to the backstop hollering "what are you doing swinging at that pitch? This girl couldn't find the strikezone with a GPS, and you're helping her out? Straighten up, now!" it's too looney. (Dad got tossed by the umpire for insulting the pitcher; we had to delay the game for 10 minutes while he was "escorted" off the premises.)

- when a parent is proud to have been thrown out of a game because she was "defening her daughter" against bad calls by the umpire, it's too looney

- and lastly, if the daughters are thoroughly embarrassed by their parent's behavior, and wish Mom would just stop coming to the games, it's definitely too looney.

Scholarships: other than football and basketball, scholarships are not a "free ride" to school. Yes, it can help get you into a good school, but you'll have to pay. A lot of girls around the Baltimore-Washington area get lacrosse scholarships to college. In almost every case, those scholarships pay two to five thousand dollars per year. Great, you got a scholarship to Georgetown! It pays five thousand dollars per year. The cost is 42,000. All you have to do is - come up with the other 37,000 per year! Yes, it's prestige, but a free ride it ain't.

I was the youngest of five kids, and we were all involved in a variety of sports. Some of us excelled, and others didn't, but we all participated because it was fun. In both school and athletics, my parents never pushed us in any way. I put enough pressure on myself in those areas that I never needed the extra push from Mom and Dad. Some of my siblings weren't as driven, but I think we would all say now that sports (both team and individual) played a huge role in our development of confidence and sense of self.

We now have 5-year-old twin boys, and they love running and playing and climbing and all other things kids at 5 should love. But they are really different from each other when it comes to organized sports. For example, they're both in a once-a-week soccer program, and one runs with all the other kids and follows the coach's instructions, while the other can generally be found laying on the grass and looking at the sky or getting tangled in the goal net. If he ever said he didn't want to go, we wouldn't make him, but he's never said that. That said, we don't push him to chase the ball either. He's his own person, and I love it. But kids learn so much about sharing, patience, and humility by participating in sports, so I think we'll always encourage their involvement, regardless of how well they happen to do.

HaHaHaHaHa...you really had me going with "Until soccer, his activity had all been solo: swimming, bike-riding, running laps around the house, karate, yoga"...until you said he's only five!!! HaHaHaHaHa...

OT, but boys baseball in my city is very racially diverse, but girls softball is almost strictly all white. Can anyone think of a logical reason for this?

As the parent of adults now, both of whom played at a high competitive level in soccer and one who went on to play in college, I'm reading this thread with interest.
Jane, you sound like me. My daughter did camps, trainings, one-on-one and group, played every single season as a starter up until the second ACL tear retired her in her sophomore year at college. I too, "encouraged" and "bargained" with her. It's more like browbeating. If she has the drive for it, you wouldn't have to "bargain" or "push". She'd be out there on her own. You have to trust that. I too believed that at the games I only cheered for the whole team, and I DID. I have evidence. The nonstop sound of my voice on the tapes of games is evidence. It makes me cringe with embarrassment now, and my twenty-something daughter agrees that it was embarrassing, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS 100 % POSITIVE CHEERING. I don't think you realize how much of "you" you're injecting into your daughter's sport. You really do want to maybe ease off and see how far her own ambition takes her. In my case, it resulted in a double degree, both cum laude, for my daughter and neither degree is sports-related. I feel she'll be successful, and some of it definitely has to do with her involvement in sports, which would have been more enjoyable for her if I'd been a little less "present" in everything. She's still a big fan, though plays less due to her injuries.
Just trying to save you from an uncomfortable conversation later - believe me, when your kid grows up, she'll be more than happy to let you know what it was really like. And then it's too late to change.

I had friends whose five year old was on a soccer team. She spent a lot of time in the backfield picking dandelions. Once her dad said something to her after the game about how she should try to watch the ball in case it came her way. He explained that she should be ready to play when the ball came that way, and that if she didn't play her position, the other team might win. She looked at him and said, "Dad, it's just a game." End of discussion.

Lmom -- I am very calm and quiet and positive at games. I cringe when I think about what I was like when my son was playing baseball. I was always positive but I did yell alot.

About bargaining, etc. So what's wrong with saying turn off the TV and go throw some pitches? Isn't it the same thing as turn off the computer and go do your math? Would you say that a kid shouldn't have to do math because they're not extremely motivated?

My DD loves to play soccer. I don't have any trouble getting her off to practice or games. She doesn't have the same love of softball but when we go to the park with the dogs and there's a team out there practicing, she's always hanging out waiting to be invited to join in.

I'm not ambitious for her. I see her as having a gift and I am nurturing her gift. What she does with it is up to her.

Your five year old sound wonderful, charming and fun. Relax and enjoy this moment. Many parent have children with physical limitations that could never do what he does. You have been blessed and you ought to hug your child every day and tell him how proud you are of him while you thank God for your good luck.

Trust me - kids always know when they're not good at a sport...if they can't manage to figure it out, their teammates will let them know. I would take the exact opposite route from the author of this post - it's not the parent's place to tell their kids that they don't have a chance of ever being good at their chosen sport (there are a few exceptions to this, but not many, and certainly not 5 year old soccer), it's the parent's role to encourage the child and tell them that if they want to be good, then they need to get out there and practice. (with the caveat that I think 5 years old is way too young to be worrying about any of this).

Pure talent is really only a small part of the equation - for sports as well as other activities, such as music. Larry Bird spent hours just practicing his free-throw shooting, most classically trained musicians spend massive amounts of time doing scales and other technical exercises.....I don't think that parents should pressure their kids to succeed in sports, but it sounded like this author was transferring some of her own insecurities onto her child " a jock he isn't (and likely won't ever be with two non-jocks for parents!)."

I was very surprised the other day when my son got a medal for participating in his preschool field day. It wasn't competitive in the least -- they're four.

The problem (and I guess this stems from the trend toward "self-esteem education/awareness" that schools have been involved in for about 20 years) is that if you teach a kid he/she gets a medal just for showing up, then guess what? Most of them will do just that. Show up, not give their best, etc. Making it seem like everyone's a winner does no favors for our kids. Life just isn't like that.

There are some kids that are naturally gifted athletes - even at very young ages. You know the kid that could catch a ball at 1, roller skate at 2 and ride a bike at 3 - then went onto the soccer fields at 4 or 5 and dominated the field. Those kids are few and far between but they do exist.

My kids are NOT those kids so I don't compare and I don't assume they will never be athletic.

As for competition - the "everyone gets an award" thing in sports is crazy. As kids get older and their skills increase it is OK to let just one kid get a VIP award on a team. Why should this kid not get special recognition? Kids need to learn team work and that there is competition in life - on and off the field. They should be having fun and trying their best at whatever sport, if they are not that great so be it. My kids have fun and if they are happy - I am happy!

I agree on the skills comment though. My kids would have benefitted from more skills classes in soccer and football, or even ME working with them. Live and learn. Coaches can only do so much in the practice time they are given.

OT, but boys baseball in my city is very racially diverse, but girls softball is almost strictly all white. Can anyone think of a logical reason for this?
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If you're around the Baltimore-Washington area, it's not surprising. For whatever reason, softball in this area is not seen as a "cool" sport like soccer, basketball or lacrosse. While there are pockets where it's popular (Severna Park/Pasadena; Calvert County; Manassas) there are large areas where it's not. I guess it's seen as too white and blue-collar. It's not "preppy" like lacrosse, soccer or field hockey; and it's not associated with cities like basketball. Based on a quick mental count, I think we have about a dozen African-Americans in our roughly 520-girl program. We actually have two who live in inner city who come out to the burbs to play in our program because there just isn't one there.

As to why baseball's different, I can only surmise that it's because baseball has the long history, tons of famous African-American players (including the greatest of them all, Willie Mays), and the constant television exposure. Of the three major US sports (I no longer count Hockey), baseball is by far the whitest, though.

To single mother by choice: I understand your anecdote, but if I were the father, I would have said back: "It's a game, but all the coaches and parents have spent a lot of time and money so you could be here, and if you're picking dandelions when they are trying to help you, that is NOT very nice, and you owe them an apology."

I'm surprised that parents can't tell by the time their kid is between 5 to 8 years old whether they are athletic or not. My son has played team soccer and baseball since he's 5 and he stinks at both of them, but you know what -- he likes playing, so who cares?

There is nothing wrong with friendly competition, either. If parents are afraid to scar their little angels self esteem by making sure that everybody is a "winner", even when they've lost, we do them a disservice later in life and in the real world.

Most kds playing sports have a good time whether they win or not. What ruins it is insane parents who feel the need to inject themselves into the game by coaching from the sidelines. These people should get a life.

I absolutely loved playing sports in elementary school but was a complete failure at it. I remember practicing softball and just loving every minute of it, but then the opposing pitchers would strike us all out because they were much better than we were and no one got on base and everyone had a lousy time. The kind of thing where I could easily hit a double when pitched to, but struck out every time against real pitchers.

I remember that during my entire intramural flag football league in the third grade, I only got to play once in one game and immediately fumbled the ball and was taken out of the game. My mother told the coach my participation was a waste of money if he didn't plan to teach us how to play and he shouted back that my father should teach me how to play and he was just a coach, not a teacher. That argument stuck with me 30 years later. Who will teach kids to play sports if the coaches suck and your parents don't want to?

To Student Mom, I would have to disagree - some children are ready to listen and learn at 5 and some are not. Those that aren't are still going to have fun and get something from a soccer/T-Ball/Hockey team but expecting them to be apologetic for being five years old is just too much! So you as the parent paid $35-50 bucks to have them play in a rec league, that was your choice. But just as any number of five year olds will sit still for the first half of their kindergarten year, many will not. Yet they will all get something out of it and by the end of the year most will be on the same page.

Children should be allowed to play and do what they are ready to do - not what some community club has decided they should be ready to do. When my son was 4 and 5 I coached a rec soccer team and the first thing they told us at the coaches training session was that this program was for fun! Yes, they wanted to grow USA soccer, but if you get kids doing cartwheels, playing with flowers, or clinging to Mom and/or Dad - to just let them. Eventually they will find their way when they are ready and in the meantime they have absorbed some of the skills and rules of the game.

Forcing children to be "team players" in a sport they barely know and are not quite physically ready to take on is just cruel. At that age they are spending enough time learning to conform to all of society's rules on classrom behavior, etc. That is more than enough!

Making it seem like everyone's a winner does no favors for our kids. Life just isn't like that.
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This reminds me of Presidential Physical Fitness Day in the 5th grade. That was the year that not one single 5th grader in my class passed the requirements. Some did in the other class, some 6th graders did, but in our class none of us made it. I definitely stopped trying that year because why should I bother, you know?

I don't know what the solution is because I gave up on athletics until age 15 or so. Kids need some kind of reward program to enjoy it, period, eliminating that will push kids right to videogames.

By the way...

I signed my son up for soccer class at age 2 and he really enjoyed it for about 10 minutes out of the session. My son was ready for it at his level and loved it. So I know that kids as young as 2 can get something out of team sports, but only under a very limited time frame.

This feels like an extension of the discussion from yesterday. Parents do NOT allow their kid to fail, so when they seem not good at something, they freak out and write letters (horrible, in my opinion) like the one you receive. Athleticism is, in part, a function of how one is raised, and I should hope you do not think you or your friend are done raising your children.

My husband and I plan to put our children under his instruction (running, kendo) until we feel they're old enough for formal training in a sport and dance. My father wants to teach them guitar or drums, and they couldn't get a better education, but my father is too competitive, even with his own students sometimes.

I had a parent like Jane Jetson -- he too thought he was doing what was best for me to develop my talent from the time I was 8 (and considered a late starter). I went on to swim Division III in college (dropped the softball and basketball because I couldn't handle the parental pressure of more than one sport) and strangely got a scholarship to law school for my college swimming. However -- I believe I never did as well as I could have because of the awful pressure my father put on me. I was amazing in practice, but never fulfilled my potential when it really counted because of the pressure to constantly excell that was placed on me. I felt like I lived under a big black cloud of expectations and potential disappointment all through highschool -- it was such a huge relief to get to college and away from my overbearing parent. I used to dread seeing my father show up at practices, meets, and games and no one else would think he was anything other than an involved supportive father. My brother and sister couldn't take the pressure and quit all their sports before they got to highschool. You may think your subtle, but your child can tell you care way to much about their sport so don't think they don't feel pressured. And if you think you can decide what they should do when they grow up don't kid yourself -- you can plan all you want for them to be a coach or play in college, but if you push too hard they'll decide it's not worth it.

My niece's boyfriend was teaching their son to hit a baseball. The kid has an amazing swing. I couldn't hit the ball as far as he did! (I'm 31) But any time he missed, here's his dad saying he didn't choke up on the bat, he didn't stand properly, he didn't watch the ball, etc. THIS KID IS 3 YEARS OLD!!! It's already obvious he's going to be an athlete, but for God's sake let him be a preschooler! (pointed this out to daddy but man did I get a glare)

My son is 3 too. I was thrilled - so was he - when he barely tipped the ball. I just don't understand the push to turn out little major league athletes so young.

Formersportspressuredkid reminds of the sad story of Dominque Mocianeua from the Bela Karolyi days of US Olympics. She was born and bred to do gymnastics and probably did have a natural talent for it. But for all of her talent and hard work she always choked at the big moment. I always wondered if it was the one way she could get back at her parents - by denying them the medal THEY so deperately wanted.

I have to agree with many comments here. He's already tried 6 sports, and he's 5? And he's "not a jock"??!?! You are nuts.

To Jane Jetson-
Maybe you should reread some of your comments. You are trying to pick your child's degree and career. It sounds like your child could end up very resentful of your over parenting. Just a thought...you may want to lighten up.

Participating in sports at a young age has very little to do with athleticism, and if you find yourself discussing that issue with your child, I would think you need to step back and take a look at what lessons you are trying to instill. Sports is a developmental activity. It provides a fun environment in which we as parents have the opportunity to establish principles that will later assist our kids in meeting the often less than fun rigors of life. The medal or trophy a young child recieves is not so much about comparisons with other children, or comparative "failure," but rather more so about the rewards that come with earning something, from applying a consistent and dedicated approach, and from not giving up just because it might be hard. It gives kids something to shoot for and to dream about. It gives them the opportunity to say I got this medal because I can do this, not because I am better than the other kid. My daughter skates, not because I think she exhibits Olympic style athleticism, but because she loves the drama, she loves earning new skates and outfits, she loves dreaming, and she loves doing something, and being able to do something, that other folks haven't tried. You just can't pay enough money to see your daughter's face fill with glowing pride as she accomplishes something new. And the best thing about it, is that sports teaches principles that translate into how to achieve the other things that mean so much more...like education.

Some kind of recognition would be nice for kids who show up at practice and at the games regularly.

I have medals from marathons - just completing them - I'm usually way in the back. They are a concrete reminder though of the specific marathon and of all the training I had to get to that point.

Maybe kids don't need a medal, but a certificate for participation gives them something concrete to help them remember that they did play a sport for a season and accomplished something.

Lmom -- I'm sorry 'bout your daughter's ACL -- that's a real bummer and a real fear that I have. Congratulations on the cum laude degrees -- totally awesome.

formersportspressuredkid -- Congratulations on your successes -- you have much to be proud of.

You both put your feelings (or your kids) on my kids shoulders. She's an individual and I know her pretty well -- and she's very happy to let me know whatever is on her little mind.

When she gets dropped off at a practice or a game she runs off with a smile. When I pick her up she insists on being the last one to leave. After a game, win or lose, she wants a playdate. The last time I yelled at her over soccer was about a year ago. We had that same "conversation" a few weeks ago over softball (first time) and I'm hoping that we'll never have it again. I simply expect her to stay focused and engaged the entire game. I keep a long-term focus on skill development and leave coaching to the coaches.

As many people here have said, and I totally agree with, to be great at something requires time and practice. Sports and music require an early commitment. When you think about it, kids who excel at something got a good start at an early age. I think we just have a different attitude about sports -- sort of nostalgic, sand-lot mentality. My son plays sports for recreation my daughter plays for that and the competition. My son gets music lessons, my daughter gets sports training, the kid down the street goes to math camp.

My son is 5. He loves t-ball because he gets to run. He would run bases for an the entire hour-long practice if the coaches let him ... and sometimes they do.

Is he great at fielding the ball? Not at the moment. But he pays attention, has fun and gets to run. It's a joy to watch him play.

Daughter, who is older, played soccer for two years because her best friend was playing. She doesn't like to run. She liked playing goalie OK. But when she found out soccer would conflict with dance this year she dropped soccer.

If your children are enjoying the activity let them do it. They'll tell you if they want to move on to something else.

I've never been a top athlete. I've done ballet, softball, soccer and been a runner. I still run, and am finishing races faster at 37 than in my 20s because of a better training program.

We all need to find ways to incorporate fitness into our lives and the lives of our children. If that fitness comes wrapped in fun, even better. Winning isn't everything.

As a kid, my mother pushed me extensively in competitive horse riding. I quit as a junion b/c I dissappointed her by not winning national champion and have never ridden a horse since. It stole the joy out of something I loved.

Oh - and at 5, I was terrified of horses, so you never really know.

DCer - to an extent I agree that kids need an "atta boy (or girl)" for their effort in sports - but that can be in the form of an ice cream cone after the game or a couple nice words from parents or grandparents. More then not, it is all or nothing when it comes to recognition. Some kids will be better and they should be able to get rewarded individually.

I remember the Presidential Physical fitness awards! I got the "patch" every year in elementary - maybe one of a handful of kids. By the time I was in HS I couldn't stand playing soccer in gym because 2 girls monopolized the field the whole time and it was pointless. I didn't learn a thing about soccer except that running up and down the field after girls that had been playing for 10 years sucked. I see both sides of it.

For young children concentrating on the skills of the game and having fun is great, as they get older it will be more competitive and their is nothing wrong with that. Well - the obnoxious parents are annoying - but the kids should compete!

I remember the Presidential Physical fitness awards! I got the "patch" every year in elementary - maybe one of a handful of kids. By the time I was in HS I couldn't stand playing soccer in gym because 2 girls monopolized the field the whole time and it was pointless. I didn't learn a thing about soccer except that running up and down the field after girls that had been playing for 10 years sucked. I see both sides of it.
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that sums it up, there really are two sides of it:
1. There is no reason to not allow the really talented to do their best and get rewarded for it
2. If the other 75% of the population don't get rewards or if the lowest 25% of the population never get rewards ever then they will lose interest.

jane jetson: When you think about it, kids who excel at something got a good start at an early age.

____________________________

I'm honestly not trying to pick on you, but that's not always true. There are two components to excellence at any activity, athletic, academic, or other. The first is natural ability ("God-given talent" if you will); the other is what you do with that ability (the practice, dedication and work). If you don't have both, you're not going to succeed at the top level.

In sports, it doesn't matter how much ability you have if you don't work at it. Conversely, if you don't have the natural ability, all the work in the world isn't going to get you to the NBA, NFL, MLB or MLS. While we often hear about child prodigies such as Tiger Woods or the Williams sisters who were drilled in a sport from a young age, there are also examples like Sam Perkins, who only started playing basketball as a sophomore in high school and went on to an 18-year career in the NBA; or Larry Nelson, who started playing golf at 23 and went on to win the Masters.

It's the same with academics. Yes, it takes years of studying and hard work to master a subject, but some people just have more of an aptitude for math and science than others; similarly, some people will be better writers than others no matter how hard they work.

I acknowledge that there's generally a correlation between how long you work at something and how good you are, but I'm very concerned at the conclusion I see drawn all too often that, well, Janey has never played basketball and she's already 12 so it's way too late for her; or that Joey has to have private soccer lessons from the time he's 6 or he'll never make the US National team.

went on to swim Division III in college (dropped the softball and basketball because I couldn't handle the parental pressure of more than one sport) and strangely got a scholarship to law school for my college swimming.
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Did you grow up in Bethesda in the 1980s? Do I know you? I'm trying to catch up with a "former olympic hopeful" who practiced swimming every day but didn't make the Seoul team.

cmac, it comes down to coaching. The key is to take the kids who didn't "win", whether it be the championship or the Presidential Physical Fitness patch or whatever, and explain to them why. Make sure they understand what they're doing well - the "atta girl" is important - and then make sure they understand what they need to do to become better. Particularly with younger kids, it shouldn't be "you're not good enough" "you're too slow" or "you stink"; it should be "you need to improve your fielding; here's how"; "if you get stronger here's what you can do better"; or "you can be great at this position if...".

Another great conversation I remember from my childhood was when my mother taught an art program afterschool she had a student who was an amazing piano whiz. I mean this girl was better than any child I ever heard and often times would "make up her own songs." and my mother mentioned this to the mom- that she played on our piano during art instruction- and the mom was like, "we want her to have a well-rounded education and not get hung-up on one thing" and I remember my mother saying, "Why not? She has a talent that no one else has. She could be a star." and whether that's true or not, why do some parents counter that kids should have "average" experiences in childhood or even downplay their child's strong suits in favor of making them averagely accomplished in different fields? If a child is really great in one field, then why not get them the tools they need to be successful?

Sorry -- I'm not the one you're looking for. Didn't grow up around here.

-- formersportspressuredkid

Our 5 yo plays soccer and honestly, Mia she is not. But, she loves going and so we continue with it. I'd never tell her that I see my own uncoordinated, slow self out there. She'll either change or figure that out for herself. The important thing is that she's doing something that moves her little body and she's having fun. I do hope it gives her some confidence playing a sport with a ball, something I never really got.

Of course, the nice thing about her club is that all the kids play all the time and the only score keeping is in the kids' heads. They are competitive, but that comes from within the kids. We parents just enjoy lounging and cheering on the sidelines in the nice spring weather.

DCer, it's that conditional you correctly inserted: "She could be a star." On the other hand, she could spend years of her life working on her music/piano and NOT be a star - there are a lot of other factors besides talent, especially in something as subjective as music.

I don't look at it as the parent saying that their child should have "average" experiences; it's that a well-rounded person is often better off than someone who has focussed her life in one area, particularly if she didn't really want to.

Consider the number of athletes who reached some level of fame with no understanding at all of art, literature, etc. Similarly some musicians have no understanding of technology or physical conditioning or anything else. Not all of us think that that's the best way to live.

We've insisted that all of our kids be exposed to sports, music, academics, arts, technology, etc. Then they can go on and pick what's right for them. And yes, if they really want to focus on one area and work hard to develop whatever talent they have, we'll help them (hitting lessons, pitching lessons, private drum lessons, whatever). Not "average experiences", but well-rounded - there's a huge difference.

Question from DCer..."My mother told the coach my participation was a waste of money if he didn't plan to teach us how to play and he shouted back that my father should teach me how to play and he was just a coach, not a teacher. That argument stuck with me 30 years later. Who will teach kids to play sports if the coaches suck and your parents don't want to?"

Answer?== A Physical Education teacher who has been trained to provide activities to children that are appropriate for their physical, social, and cognitive skills. These teachers REALLY TEACH skills like throwing, catching, jumping, and skipping through a variety of activities -- not just games, but also educational dance and gymnastics as well as fitness activities. These teachers can do wonders for not only teaching children skills, but also opening up their interest and motivation to participate in activities outside of school. If your child's PE teacher seems to teach a program that looks like the one you used to take, likely, he or she is NOT up to date. Need more info? Go to "www.pecentral.org" for one of the best websites for parents, kids, and teachers. Feel free to send questions to the site manager if you have them. There are passionate teachers out there who believe children deserve more than just 16 hours of PE in a school year (that's having PE 1x/week).

I played competitive sports (soccer, basketball) from kindergarten to high school, and I think it helped me out a lot. I was a very shy child (I wouldn't get out of the car for my first soccer practice - I'm so grateful that my parents made me go back because I ended up loving soccer), and sports helped to boost my confidence in my athletic ability as well as being able to relate comfortably to other kids. Personally, I believe that team sports teach kids invaluable lessons of cooperation and contributing towards a common goal. For boys, it seems like sports are one of the major agents of socialization. And I think sports for preadolescent girls could, in some circumstances, promote a healthier body image.

"And I think sports for preadolescent girls could, in some circumstances, promote a healthier body image."

Unless that sport is gymnastics.

anon for this one -- I don't see how we disagree here -- being good starts with natural ability and requires hard work. If I wanted my daughter to play at a "nationals" level, the first thing I'd have to do is have her drop a sport and focus on one thing. She'd also have to grow a little, but she does have the talent and she plays in leagues that send teams to this level of competition. I haven't been willing to make that commitment and I'm happy having her focus be a little more general than that.

My son took up a new sport in his junior year of high school. I'm on the board for one of these sports and I'm always encouraging parents to enroll their kids no matter what their experience.

I knew very early on that my DD's gift was her athletic ability and her love of physical activity. We tried lots of sports and what was hard was she was good at everything. We had to choose at one point between gymnastics and soccer. I asked her which she liked best -- "soccer, because you get to run and gymnastics you stand in line". If she wants to switch to swimming in high school, I would be disappointed, but it would be fine.

Next year she'll get to start music in school. This summer her reward for her hard work in sports is a week at horse camp. I also want a well balanced life for both kids but I am absolutely going to nurture in them both what they're best at.

Lisa: [sobs] Mom, this is really scary. I'm going to get my first F ever. (gym)

Marge: Cheer up! So you're not good at sports: it's a very small part of life.

Homer: [walking in, humming] Sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports...Marge, Bart rides up in the front seat today because he's a good guy at sports.

Marge: [whispering] I think Lisa needs to feel a little special tonight. How about letting her ride up front too?

[Homer looks at Bart, who shakes his head]

Homer: Ehh, I tried.

anon for this one: I could not agree more on coaching, learning the game is majority of it when you are young. Building up skills build confidence. We have been blessed with great coaches in soccer and flag football - all concentrating on skills - but there is only so much time a coach can give each individual kid. I think our mistake early on with our daughter and son in soccer was that we (parents) didn't know the game and didn't particularly like it. The kids who had parents that were soccer fans did much better. Flipside - my husband coaches flag-football and our daughter really understands all the positions and rules - makes a world of difference.

Agree on the "well-rounded" comment too. It is through exposure of many things that kids will find their path. I know plenty of kids that excel in certain areas (dance, soccer, music) but their worlds are getting smaller and smaller each year. That is all they know and if they fail in that field they have nothing to fall back on.

My daughter did get kicked out of gumnastics at age 5 or 6. She was going to be too tall and had "no future". She then asked for a sport good for tall people, we talked about a few, and it was the start of her love for swimming. She's 16 now and still loves it, but has scaled back by choice (trying other sports). She wants to swim in college as a stress release. We know kids who still love the intensity of competing at a high level, and others who are burned out. Happily there are different sports and teams to fit all kinds of kids. let them look around.

Let me get this straight. Your kid is enjoying something, but you don't think he's good enough at it so you want him to stop.

Yes, I'm very glad I'm not your kid.

Worst. Parent. Ever.

I was too tall for gymnastics, started at a late age, and had no "future" but I loved it. I competed for my high school and have been coaching the sport for over 12 years at a recreational level. It's a brutal sport at the really high levels, but it does teach discipline and coordination. We have a real range of abilities where I work and the kids in general have fun and gain some skills. They do, however, see right through the "medals" given at the end of each session. It's hard for me not to roll my eyes right along with them...

Hooyah...what awesome points really made by everyone. This might be a landmark for me so I better not screw mine up.

First off- competition can be really good. But only when it is meaningful. As so many others have said- until we're getting into tweens ages, it should be more about fun and exploration. We no longer expect our kids to know who they want to marry at 13, why should they be nailed down to a sport at 5? Once winning and performance really means something and you start to develop a drive, then competing can be a great motivator. Even then however, tying all your value into "the thing", specially for someone who has no idea what their ultimate identity will be, becomes destructive.

And, as so many have pointed out, usually leads to rebellion and damage as well.

Secondly, the question "How am I going to deal with telling her she can't always be a winner" Well, I'm surprise she doesn't already know this, but she'll find out the first time she doesn't get a medal. Ifyou know ahead of time, you tell her "Medals are only going to people who did really well, so you might not get one, but you're still very special to me."

She might be ok with it, she might cry for a night. What's wrong with those scenarios? Why will it be so wrong for her to go through that lesson?

Parents focus wayyy to much on avoiding all the "bad things" rather than keeping things realistic.

My mom wanted me to be well-rounded, so she never pushed a direction for me and let me decide on my own what my interests were. So ... to this day I'm someone who's pretty good at dance - but not great, I'm a pretty good ice skater - but not great, a pretty good student - but not great, etc, etc, etc.

I want to cut more of a happy medium with my kid. I intend to put her in activities and KEEP her in there unless and until she hates it. By allowing me to choose my own direction, I ended up with **NO** direction.

As far as picking your kid's college major goes, dang straight. We're going to give our daughter a list of acceptable majors (e.g. engineering, chemistry, economics, etc). She can have whatever career she wants, but we are NOT paying through the nose for her to get an education and then not be able to get a job because of having a basket-weaving major like I did :P If she really feels basket-weaving is her calling, then that is fine, and she can foot the bill for her own education.

Uh, wasn't Dominique Moceanu (sp?) on the GOLD medal winning olympic gymnastics team???

Frankly, some of you parents scare me . . . plotting out your kids' future, dictating degrees to them, etc.

Student mom, regardless of whether you think that you are helping your child, but what you are is controlling. And, not in a good way. Obviously, you're free to parent as you see fit. I thank god, however, that I am not your child.

To StudentMom:

The issue might be that either you just were never exposed to something you fell in love with, or you're just not that motivated in most of the traditional things.

Don't raise your child just in reaction to how your mother raised you. Of course we don't want to repeat the sins of our fathers, but your child is NOT you- perhaps your mothers method will work perfectly for her.

My mother never pushed me towards anything either, but she gave me all the options her income and time could allow- and because of that she had to deal with a voracious reader who for a time was hugely researching the occult and paranormal and who ultimately ended up a perfectly boring normal woman with a degree in philosophy.

Pick the method which allows your daughter to explore AND thrive- which means your method to her needs to be individualized to her, not just a negative reaction to your mothers method.

PS to add that this philosophy degreed chica got a mighty fine job and has never had trouble with such, in fact I'm often astonished at how many comptent adults have such shameful writing, researching and analyzation skills- things we were taught and drilled on as a matter of course

PPS- of course misspelling competent when you're trying to prove that parents are stupid and wrong to tell a kid what they can and can't get a degree in just makes it all go down the drain :)

Student Mom - My parents did the same thing with me and my major in college. I will tell you this. I know that they thought they were doing the best thing for me. I understand that. But, I resent the hell out of them for to this day. I look back at my college days and wish, wish, wish I could do them over again and be free to explore them more to find something that is more to my calling. Sure, I am sucessful and well educated. But, do I love what I do? Nope. Can I now think of many other fields that would have been more suitable for me had I been given the opportunity to explore them? Absolutely. Please don't do this to your kids. I know you think you are doing what's best for them, but by controlling them in this way, you are smothering them. They will end up resenting you for it in the end. I have so much resentment towards my parents for these types of controlling behaviors that I know in my heart were done out of love.

Yes, Dominiquewas on the Gold Medal Team, but that's all she had - the team medal. She was favored to win several individual medals in both Olympics she participated in and choked each time.

Student Mom: Your daughter may wind up with the type of personality that will turn your "controlled options" into a power struggle of the nth degree. I used to make statements like that when my son was little. Now that we know how he works and who he is we realize that he will find the path that fits him and we could no more dictate that path for him that we could dictate his eye color.

Thanks guys for the input. I'd like to reiterate though that if DD wants to be a History of Basketweaving major (just as an example), she is free to do so - but she will have to foot the bill for her own college education. We won't disown her or anything lol - we just won't pay for it. I don't think there is anything controlling or wrong with that when we're talking $100k+ by the time she would enroll. If it's my money, I get the final say - if it's HER money, SHE gets the final say. Themz the breaks in life.

My mother, a teacher, once told me that she would never send me to college to be a teacher. I don't recall her nixing any other majors, but she was adamant that I choose a different career. When the time came, I suggested majoring in drama. In a panic, she went to my drama teacher, who suggested that I major in education. I went in that direction, and have never looked back.

I'm joining this late - but my husband coaches our town's C-team for Girls U-11 Soccer. Two years ago, his girls weren't the fastest or the most adept ball handlers, but they were willing to work hard and laugh and put up with his really bad jokes. And their parents were willing to support them - at practices, at games (even during a season where we did not win a game) and with practice time at home - because their daughters LOVE the game.

Last night, we celebrated the ultimate in success. Of the girls we have coached (I'm his asst.), 14 out of 15 were honored as top achieving scholars at the local middle school and the first person (after Mom and Dad) that they looked for was Coach (including the girls who have moved up to the A & B team because of how their skills have progressed)to take a picture of the TEAM. (PS - we have a 3-1 record this spring.)

Don't assume that how a child plays this year judges his future.

REMEMBER MICHAEL JORDAN DIDN'T MAKE HIS HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL TEAM THE FIRST TIME EITHER.

Back to the original item that started this:

I was one of the kids in gymnastics that didn't do fantastically. I never made the team, I just took lessons for 6 years, starting at the age of 6. My mother never needed to tell me I wasn't good, or that I wasn't going to make the team. Not making the team told me that. I kept taking lessons for years after I knew I wasn't competition material because I liked it, and it kept me in shape. When I finally realized gymnastics was keeping me unhealthily thin, I switched to horseback riding and took 6 years of that. Again, a sport I was never good enough to compete in, but one I loved enough to work at. If I hadn't stopped riding to go to college, I probably would be competing now.