I think it depends on the age of the kid and the type of harrassment. Certainly a toddler/preschooler biting is perfectly developmentally normal. My daughter got bit by a fellow day care client when she was around age 2. Was I upset, sure. It broke the skin and caused a bruise. But I spoke to the day care staff about minimizing biting frustration. I knew who the biter was because my daughter told me but the staff did as well. I don't blame the child or the parents. Again, this is a normal situation. About a year and a half later she got a black eye and cut on her eye lid because a student ran into her on the play ground. From what I was told, it was an accident. I was told about the incident but I was not given the name of the child who ran into her. Interestingly enough my daughter told me about the event but would not mention the child's name. But if my child was purposely hurt by a grade school student, I would want to know about it and know who did it. I assume your own child would tell you the name. I would call the parents on my own and see if we could resolve this outside of the school. My guess is most parents are not supportive of agressive behavior from their children. But if that did not work, I would work through the school system. As a last resort, I would sue the parents. Why shouldn't you? I mean it is assault and battery if it is done to a grown person, why shouldn't it be for a kid? I am not talking about a little name calling or pushing and shoving in the play ground. But kids 10 + who are constantly tormenting and physically hurting other people, need to be stopped. Personally, I would love to throw their parents in the can but I doubt you can do that. The best you can do is hit them in the wallet. Shame on those parents raising kids to be violent!

"I would love to throw their parents in the can"

Foamy, of all people, I would think that you would be the last person to wish punishment on the parents of a child that behaves outside the norm. While a child is at school, it is up to the highly educated and trained staff of professionals to maintain control over the students behavior. How can the parents be held accountable for the behavior of their kids when tthey aren't even there?

This is a tough one. It used to be that parents didn't get involved when kids fought or bullied/got bullied, and that kids had the ability to deal with it, with fisticuffs, words, or by ignoring it. Not sure what has changed -- certainly parents are more willing to intervene, litigate, etc. I'm not advocating kids getting into physical fights to resolve their problems. However, when you know mom and dad will come to the rescue if someone picks on you or you pick on someone, it changes your ability to handle problems on your own.

Also, what do we imagine the schools should be able to do in these bullying situations? As parents, we've sued left and right to get things our way, so now what?

I'm not sure why a lawsuit would be required. Last I checked, assault and battery are criminal offenses. If the bullying "kids" are over 18, that means they go through the adult criminal justice system.

I sympathize completely with Billy's parents. The only thing I don't understand is why it took them so long to get the police involved.

It's a shame when things get to the lawsuit level. My first step would be to file charges, not a lawsuit -- if it's bad enough that you're contemplating legal action, I'd think you'd first want to turn to the system that is supposed to be there to handle those kinds of situations. If I did file a lawsuit, my first target would be the school -- if the bullying is continuing, then almost by definition the school is failing to respond appropriately. Something is wrong when bullying is tolerated while kids are getting expelled for bringing lemon drops to school.

But I can see going after the family, too, if they're just ignoring the issue. I was bullied at one school by one particular boy, and the problem was definitely the parents. It finally got so bad that my mom met with his mom -- who absolutely refused to believe that her little "angel" (her word) would do anything like that. Boy, was HE a smug little b------ the next day.

WorkingMomX, I strongly disagree with your "kids will be kids, let the kids handle it" approach. Much of the time that's the case. But in my case -- and in the kinds of things you hear about in the media -- it was not. I followed all my mom's advice: tell a teacher (he was smart enough to make sure he only attacked when there were no adults around); ignore him and walk away (he would follow me home from school, jump me, hit me, grab my bike and bike lock to prevent me from getting away); fight back (he was bigger and stronger and always won). I was 9 -- what the heck was I supposed to do? And as long as his mom believed in letting the kids "work it out" on their own, he was Never Going To Stop. Bullies bully because they can.

Sometimes kids need adults to step in and defend them. What are the schools supposed to do? Well, they can start by treating bullying as a serious problem -- at least as serious as lemon drops or 6-yr-old kisses. Detention, suspension, expulsion -- I've seen all of those used for far less serious events. Much as I hate the thought of lawsuits, a parent's number one job is to keep his or her kid safe. And if my kid was being bullied, and the school(s) weren't doing their job, then I would take whatever steps I had available to make it stop myself.

I followed all my mom's advice: tell a teacher (he was smart enough to make sure he only attacked when there were no adults around); ignore him and walk away (he would follow me home from school, jump me, hit me, grab my bike and bike lock to prevent me from getting away); fight back (he was bigger and stronger and always won). I was 9 -- what the heck was I supposed to do? And as long as his mom believed in letting the kids "work it out" on their own, he was Never Going To Stop. Bullies bully because they can.

Posted by: Laura | April 1, 2008 10:07 AM

And to think everyone acts so shocked when a child brings a dangerous weapon to school and wields it against his or her tormentors. What do we expect kids to do when we, as adults, leave them no other choice?

To Laura:
If he was bigger and stronger, it's not the end of the story. Did not you have any redeeming qualities? I was slight, but smart and well read ( a girl), and always had "bigger and stronger" friends in elementary school. Got bullied in middle school, though, by older girls, which did not last long, and by a couple of boys competing for my place in the pecking order. The teacher took care of that by boxing their ears behind the shed. Boys were later heard mumbling about telling their parents and suing him, but it never happened. Kids have to learn to settle their scores within the written and unwritten society rules.

I was bullied at times, especially 8th and 9th grade, when the kids were big enough to actually cause injury.

My tactics for survival were limited. The school administration was nearly useless.

One year I befriended a much larger kid, who was willing to protect me (and not even in return for homework assistance).

The year after that (end of 9th grade), I started learning Tae Kwon Do, from a decent school in which you actually learned how to fight and defend yourself. I was under no delusions of becoming superman, but after a year of this I knew that if necessary I could inflict a serious enough injury on someone bothering me to make them think twice. I continued karate until I left for college, and it made a huge difference to me in terms of confidence.

I'm grateful my kids can attend a small private school.

I also disagree with WORKINGMOM X, all it takes for evil to triump is for good men (and women) to do nothing. I would file assault charges in this case, let the bully and his family start dealing with the unpleasantness of their kids actions, money for a lawyer, criminal record, time in court etc. FIGHT BACK, it only gets worse if you do nothing.

Laura -- not saying parents shouldn't intervene. I think they should when it's appropriate. Billy's story is horrific, and so is yours. I was thinking more along the lines of teaching a child to defend himself/herself if need be - kind of along the lines of ViennaDad's post. I realize that means that things could get physical, but with a lot of bullies, if you stand up to them, they get scared.

Like I said, it is difficult to know what to do. I never was hit by anyone in school, but if the emotional and verbal abuse inflicted by middle school girls counts, I'm a victim. Aren't we all?

I'm horrified and confused by Billy's story.

How is it that the police were not called after assaults bad enough that the kid passed out, had his cheek ripped open, etc.?

And how can a parent keep putting a kid on the bus to the same school after something like that happens?

It's easy to say this from the sidelines, I know, but I'd open a can of holy hell if someone did that to my kid, not keep binders of school reports.

This isn't "kids will be kids" or garden-variety bullying, this is criminal assault.

I do agree that the most concern and latitiude should be given to the victim. We have a child in her teens in an urban school here who was sexually assaulted at school and her assialants were suspended but not removed from the school. While we must recognize that many of the bully kids are troubled too, they should not be put above the children they injure. Certainly many of them or their families could be sued for or charged with harassment as well. These parents who stand up for their bully kids are not doing them any favors in the long run. As an aside, when I was in middle school a boy who had been hrassing me verbally decided it would be cool to pull down my sweat pants in gym class. I punched him in the face. We both ended up in in house detention which I think ,to this day was unfair.

DandyLion:I hope your kidding. Parents are legally responsible for their kids behavior whether they are present or not. If your kid vandalizes someone's property, you have every right to press criminal charges as well as recoup financial losses. In the case of bullying, I think suing for financial damage should probably be limited for money for attorneys, courts, therapy, medical care etc... It should not be a windfall for the suing parents. But the reality is our society does NOT change unless we are financially motivated. And you have kids yourself. So you know, that bullying has gone beyond school yard bloody noses and name calling. I think no matter if I have 100% control over my kid, I am legally and morally responsible for them till 18. Doesn't mean they won't make bad choices. It means if they screw up in a criminal way, I am also held responsible. Personally, I think charging them with assualt and battery is just if this goes beyond the a normal school yard scuffle. It is harder to prove when it is nonphysical harrassment.

I have a son, now grown, who was constantly bullied. His tormentors *knew* that they could get the first punch in without the teachers seeing, but sure as anything, they would see my son retaliating. How is that fair for 'letting the kids work it out'? He would come home bruised, and the schools would refuse to do anything. It got to the point at one parent/teacher conference we had to say 'Does the world Columbine mean nothing to you?!"

This is an incredible hot topic for me. Our experience with the school system was a combination of their unwillingness to 'rock the boat' with other parents, policies that tied their hands, and down right incompetence.

School policies are broken, frequently punishing the victim, and empowering the bully. The suspension for any hitting only works if all the parties are punished. I would hope that your child would tell you who did the deed. And I fully support filing charges if the school takes no action. We were fortunate, due to a number of issues, he was moved to several different schools during his time in public school, so no one bully would follow him.

There was one in the neighborhood, where the working it out was effective. The school system felt that they had control over the children until the bus was out of sight. We finally told our son that he could pound the stuffing out of this kid (who was roughly equal in size) once the bus was gone. We told the various families that we knew not to interfere unless they saw blood. They all knew the situation. We weren't there, but his big sister reported that it was intense, but our son overcame, and the problems on that front ceased. That could never happen on school property.

High school was different - first year still involved some issues, but he was smarter about letting the bullies do something while attracting the administrator's attention so they got in trouble. All was over when he got his height over that summer, and hit 6'1", bulky enough to draw the football coach's attention, and still growing. No longer a target. I am proud to report that he became one of those 'big kids' that would defend the others - he knew what they were enduring. But not everyone has this luck, either to take care of themselves or find others to help.

"Foamy, of all people, I would think that you would be the last person to wish punishment on the parents of a child that behaves outside the norm. While a child is at school, it is up to the highly educated and trained staff of professionals to maintain control over the students behavior. How can the parents be held accountable for the behavior of their kids when tthey aren't even there?"
__________________________________

Spoken like someone who wants to abdicate his parental responsibility to the school. Of course, schools must exercise supervisory control over students, but YOU, not some administrator, are ultimately responsibe for your child's behavior. If you aren't willing to shoulder that responsibility, you should be held accountable.

My oldest son was 13 when he was attacked by another boy. He was walking with his friends, had a backpack on and hands in his hoodie. The bully, who had been picking on him for a couple of years: shoving him around, running into him, talking trash. My son would talk to us about it and we let him decide if we needed to get involved. He chose for us not to. After this boy punched him in the face and took off running, we filed charges. He was put into an alternate education program for 30 days and that's the last we heard of him. What burns my butt the most is the assistant principal telling me that if my son would've retailiated or tried to defend himself, he would've been punished as well. To me, that was a Texas-sized load of BS and to that end, I told me son if that boy ever came near him again, he was totally within his rights to annihilate him. The rules are written IMHO to protect the bullies/troublemakers...grrr...hisss...

How can the parents be held accountable for the behavior of their kids when tthey aren't even there?

Posted by: DandyLion | April 1, 2008 08:20 AM

Parents who raise their kids to respect the boundaries of other children have nothing to fear from accountability. If, on the other hand, parents raise a bully, hitting 'em in the pocketbook might just be the key to getting their attention.

You know, we can argue until we're blue in the face about how to deal with bullies, but perhaps it would behoove us to look at the larger issue of violence in our culture.

Regardless of where you stand on the issue of gun control, there can be no doubt that Americans tend to reach for a gun (if there's one handy) when they get angry. Hardly a week goes by that we don't read about someone shooting a dozen people somewhere in our nation. Americans are challenged when it comes to finding ways to resolve disputes non-violently.

Our current president has set a terrible example when it comes to talking and negotiating before turning to force and violence. When our own government essentially condones violence as a first tier solution to disagreement, it has a subliminal impact on our national psyche. When we see American soldiers attacking and subduing an entire nation for reasons that seem questionable, at best, we lose faith in our ability to resolve issues non-violently.

Our American culture glorifies action and violence. Consider all the parents who allow very young children to watch that fake wrestling stuff where thousands cheer while men and women pound each other into submission. How can we not think that kind of gratuitous violence won't have an impact on young, impressionable minds?

Americans adore violence. We spank and beat kids when they're growing up and then wonder why our children turn to hitting other children to resolve their hurt feelings. Children don't differentiate between "good hitting" and "bad hitting." When parents lose their temper and hit a child, the child gets that they are out of control, and the signal to the child is that it's okay to lash out at others when you lose control.

Violence begets violence. Plain and simple.

Ummm, wow, Nine, did I not have any redeeming qualities? What, so it's my fault? Actually, I had a lot of redeeming qualities -- I was smart with a sharp tongue and a good stiff spine; I didn't let him intimidate me, I didn't back down when he attacked me, I didn't go running home to mommy to ask her to fight my battles for me. I stood up to him myself for almost a year before my mom intervened because it was getting out of hand.

It's easy to harp on about how kids have to learn to settle scores by themselves when you had a teacher to settle yours for you.

Children constantly reflect the values & self-discipline that YOU, as parents, instill in them. Parents are 100% responsible, legally, for anything their kids do until the age of 18. Beyond that, they are still responsible, to varying degrees, for how the children that you raised act in, and contribute to, society. Children are a responsibility that will be with you until the day one of you dies. If you are not comfortable with that thought or you don't feel you can handle it, for the love of god & all that is holy do the rest of the world a favor and DON'T BREED.

I think some things should be kept private by the schools, i.e medications, family issues and other personal things. However, if there is a child bullying another and it does not stop after numerous talkes with the school and the other kids parents. Then something more needs to be done. The bullie needs to be punished in some way to get the point across. If nothing is accomplished after that, as a father myself 2 things would happen. 1st, I would go into the school and raise hell, 2nd, my son wourld be put in a martial arts class that teaches defense and how to avoid an attack. Not how to fight back, but how to not let another person hit, kick or harm you in any way. I am talking about my son learning throws and momenium moves to keep a bullie away. If all fails I will step in and confront the bullie myself and find out who their parnts are and make a trip to their front door. School is hard enough these days, a kid should not have to worry about getting bullied too.....

"Our current president has set a terrible example when it comes to talking and negotiating before turning to force and violence. When our own government essentially condones violence as a first tier solution to disagreement, it has a subliminal impact on our national psyche"

What drivel, get a life Hillary.

This is a really complicated issue. So much about what is tolerable can be dictated by the environment. Teachers and administrators can be just as bigoted or racist or intolerant as the bullies, and just as willing to look the other way, which was the norm in my small town. And parents can send such strange signals to their sons and daughters about how to react. When I was in junior high, this kid repeatedly called me a racial slur I'd never even heard before, in the cafeteria in front of several school staff who did nothing. When I asked my mom what it meant and told her the story, we drove straight to that kid's house. His dad and him answered the door. My mom said - do you know what your son called my daughter today? A (blank). Well, the dad barely got the door closed on us before his fist was heading towards his son. We were shocked. The kid had a fat lip the next day, and my mom and I both felt terrible for him. On the bright side, neither me, nor my brother or sister were ever bullied again.

Agreed with people who advise their children to respond to the physical attacks appropriately (preferably not on school property and not beating the attacker to the pulp). If the school punishes a bully (especially with a previous history) and a bullied equally after the fight, take a case to criminal court and claim self-defense. Have witnesses. Keep your kid's record clean. Unfortunately, defending your friend won't count as self-defense. In any case, learn the Judo: you don't even have to use it, people will take notice of your demeanor. Plus, the ability to break a fall will save your kid from many sport and playground injuries.

grey goose and momof3boys - I'm right there with you! Although it happened in elementary school, where I think teachers and parents react more forcefully against inappropriate behavior.

My son was constantly getting in trouble for hitting. What we didn't know right away was that he was hitting back. I couldn't understand why my son was being so physical, and he really wouldn't talk about it. Why did you kick that boy? I dont' know. Drove me nuts! I thought my son was the bully! Until I finally asked the principal to get both kids in the room. We found out that this kid always made the first move - whether it was pushing, hitting or verbal. My son's instinct was to react back physically.

We had to really instill in him that he could not hit back. To get him to realize that if he just told the teacher what happened, the other kid would get into trouble. But if he also hit back, he would get in trouble too. Most of the time, he wouldn't ever talk about what happened, so the other kid would be off the hook.

So, now he is very verbal - not necessarily a tattle tale, but a loud forceful Stop Hitting Me! is usually all it takes. And, he feels comfortable now to talk to us about any problems because he knows we will help him get through it. Sometimes kids work it out themselves, but often I think the parents need to help the child or intervene for the child.

This all happened in 3rd grade. He's in 5th now and there haven't been any incidents so far this year or all of last year. And luckily, he was never seriously attacked and injured. I can't imagine what I would do if that happened!

Oddly, my son often talks about his "friend" X, with the disclaimer, 'You know, the one who used to bully me in 3rd grade?'

Stacey, a 2-year old biter is _not_ a bully. He's a normal 2-year old with a behavior problem that is also normal. The school's response should have been to monitor him carefully and redirect him before he bit someone. If the school wasn't responding properly and your child kept getting bitten, that's a school problem- but it doesn't mean that the biter was a "bully."

Sorry, but my pet peeve is inappropriate labeling of children.

I find the attitude of some of the posters here horrifying. I was brought up in the British school system, and bullies were NOT tolerated at all. It was not up to the child being bullied to resolve the issue on their own (of course, the child probably tried first), but up to the school and the parents working together. It is the job of these adults to teach those doing the bullying that their behavior is not acceptable, not up to their peers. I do not expect my daughter's peers to teach her to say please and thank you and be a good citizen, it's up to me, and it's the same principle for bullying.

I was sexually harrased from the 7-9th grades at school, and I was too embarrased to tell my parents about it. The teachers knew, but chose not to do anything (probably because the boy in question was from an upper-middle-class family, and they knew it was pointless). To this day I wish I had just socked him one. I probably would have been suspended, but I imagine it would have put a stop to it.

The one good thing that came from this experience is that I know how to talk to my kids about bullying. Unfortunately, kids won't always tell their parents. It's embarassing to admit that you are being singled out.

Let them work it out themselves?! I could understand if it is a one time verbal argument or even a childish fight over something stupid... that's kids being kids. But this is repetitive assault a.k.a. bullying. We are supposed to be trying to teach our children how to be civilized.

Do we let adults work it out themselves when we see someone getting beat up on the street? What happens to a man who gets in a fist fight on the street or in a bar or beats his wife? Do we just "let them work it out"? What is the point of having law enforcement if everybody will just "work it out and solve the problem on their own"?

My oldest son was getting bullied by a group of boys. He told me what was happening and I gathered all my kids around to discuss this topic. This is what I told them...

The boys who are bullying you are all insecure. They are afraid of being picked on, so they pick on someone else. It just happens to be you. But you have to be stronger than them in order to teach them all a lesson. I'm not talking about being physically stronger. Next time they all gang up on you, just tell them they are the same as all those guys that beat and spit on Jesus while He carried his cross. And then say, "I forgive you because you don't know what you are doing." Of course that would NOT work in public school... but fortunately they go to a Catholic school where it DID work. Not only did they stop bullying my son, but they haven't bullied anybody else since. Now they play football, soccer, basketball, etc. to take out all of those "growing boy" aggressions.

OK. Now anybody who wants to start bullying me because I mentioned Jesus in this post can start firing away. I forgive you because you don't know what you are doing.

It's intriguing to me how many posters think it's just fine to use violence to deal with violence.

In Shanana's case, where the father actually punched his son in the face to teach him not to call names, what do you think happened to that kid. I'm sure he grew up feeling misunderstood and angry and probably uses violence to resolve his feelings.

Folks, at some point someone along the way good people have to muster the courage and intelligence to stand up and say, "The violence ends here." We need to convince people (especially children) that violence is not an appropriate response to feeling hurt. We have a higher intelligence than animals and we are sophisticated enough to resolve disagreements and hurt without hitting. As a nation, as a culture, we have to stop glorifying violence and make some effort to restore civility and compassion to our daily lives.

It starts with parents.

Cuckoo, cuckoo.

I do need to add something to my comment. Our son had severe ADHD. Impulse control was something we diligently and constantly worked on. The natural impulse to retaliate was magnified. As a child, we would never condone any physical response, thus equally constant meetings with the school.

We did get both karate and most importantly akido lessons. Akido must be the perfect martial art - as it was taught, they could NOT initiate any action, it was all self defense. The karate gave him more confidence, but both he and his sister got more mileage out of the akido,

The 'pounding into the dust' incident occurred during freshman high school. All other venues had failed, and he was just down the street. He understood that we were letting him 'slip the leash' just this one time, to resolve this issue. It worked, everyone learned a lesson, and he attempts peaceful resolutions to this day. We helped him develop the judgment he needed for his adult life (he is now a Junior in college). It was h@ll going through it all, and I'm happy we survived.

This boy was continually harrassed and beaten by others (at one point losing consciousness) and the school took a "boys will be boys" attitude. That's a scandal. The parents did the right thing by notifying the media and hopefully embarassing the school. Also, I think this points to the problems we have with raising our boys today - we encourage them to express themselves by force. If Billy was knocked unconscious on the football field, at least some people would be impressed with the other guy. But some kids don't draw the line and go after weakness off the football field too. And deep down we accept it as part of becoming a man. Put another way, if you had to choose, who would you want your son to be: Billy or his tormentors?

when i was in elementary school (mid 80s) a bully routinely would beat up me and my younger brother. the school wouldn't do anything about it. so we ambushed him on the bus one day. my brother tripped him and we jumped him. we were hauled into the admin's office. Our story was "he fell" and the bully wouldn't say otherwise. he never touched us -- or anyone else -- again.

My son is in 6th grade and has been a victim of bullying all year at school. He's been teased, ostracized, pushed, hit, shoved up against a wall, and whipped with dog tags.

He didn't tell us any of this until he reached some sort of breaking point one day. He felt totally powerless because he knew if he retaliated he would get in trouble, and he didn't think the teachers could anything to stop it, or that it would stop for awhile and then start again so it wasn't worth bringing up with the teachers.

The fact that we didn't know about it, and that he felt so utterly powerless was a much larger problem than the altercations themselves.

I sent an email to every principal, teacher, and guidance counselor in the building so that everyone knew exactly what was going on. I didn't want anyone saying later that they weren't informed.

I have to say, the school is really stepping in and meeting with him daily now to make sure it isn't happening anymore. They are also working with him to let him know what things make kids a target for bullying, and what he has the right to do if kids treat him badly. The support they are giving him has improved his confidence to the point that he is no longer a target. Kids know to leave him alone. We are taking chance though. If it happens again we will call the police and file assault charges. And our son is starting Tai Kwan Do classes this weekend.

One of the issues that seems to be missing in this whole conversation today is what happens to kids who are harshly bullied. Many times that kind of harassment leads to suicide, or to acts of violence on the part of the victim. I'm glad we caught this early so that we can work to prevent anything like that happening.

"It's easy to harp on about how kids have to learn to settle scores by themselves when you had a teacher to settle yours for you. "

...well, I did not ask him. He observed those boys making sexually loaded comments to me (not too much of a chest at age 13, now it can be told :). They did it more than once, that what I considered bulling, nothing physical. I don't know how long it took the teacher to notice, but he settled it. One of the boys, the son of local politician, incidentally, was my classmate later. I never had problems with him after that, he was basically a good guy carried away by hormones. I think that when those boys tried to gauge the opinion of their referent group (that's how I know what happened) they did not get much support. Most boys easily see a jerk when it's somebody else.

As for redeeming qualities, I was just wondering if Laura had any, not saying that she did not. At school everybody watches everybody, what else they are doing for six hours a day. If somebody is systematically picked at, but overall is a good person, there are forces to bring a balance. Sorry if I sounded harsh. I went to at least 5 different schools, and always saw people being picked at : too fat, too abrasive, too meek, anything -- but there always would be people their own age who would step in to change the group dynamic. The Wolfe boy from NY Times, btw, seem to be an exception -- from what I read, the author of the article could not say anything positive about him. Maybe his parents can pull him out and home school for a couple years, so he can have peace to explore what his srengths are and build his character.

I was the target of a pack of girls - for years. The teachers and principal knew it, but one of the leaders of that pack was the youngest daughter of the principal and one of the teachers. Tough luck for me. I finally stopped being their primary target when another smart-but-strange kid moved into the district. But the bullying didn't really end. It was just reduced from me and redirected elsewhere.

When my family moved away from that town, and I started at a new school, I finally found some friends and stopped having problems. I try to never think about those years in that small-minded community.

I don't know what I would say if either of my kids were being bullied, since I never found a solution to my own problems.

When younger son was just starting kindergarten, a janitor screamed at him and reduced him to tears for entering the school through the "wrong" door - the one that was closest to the kindergarten classrooms. DH tried to resolve that with the school admininstration and got nowhere. Within two weeks we had him at a different school where children were treated appropriately by the staff.

Older son has a full-time one-on-one aide as part of his autism inclusion program - not all the kids in the program get that, but it's in our son's IEP - so, he's pretty well protected from the risk of bullying.

The only solution I know is to get away from a bully permanently.

"When younger son was just starting kindergarten, a janitor screamed at him and reduced him to tears for entering the school through the "wrong" door - the one that was closest to the kindergarten classrooms. DH tried to resolve that with the school admininstration and got nowhere. Within two weeks we had him at a different school where children were treated appropriately by the staff."

Sue, with all due respect, this is what I'm talking about regarding parents interfering when they shouldn't. You actually moved your child out of a school because a janitor yelled at him? Why not use it as a teaching moment? Not everyone in this world is kind, nice, gentle. Are you going to move him every time he gets upset by an adult's behavior? I'm not saying the janitor was justified, I'm saying your response seems a bit of an overreaction.

BILL RANDLE your human sensitivity class called, meeting canceled tonight, suggested you go pet some stray cats and get in touch with your inner child.

The child who is doing the bullying shouldn't be protected. One HUGE problem in our schools today is that those who do not want to learn can be disruptive, yet the schools have no recourse.

If the kids are not wanting to be there, cause trouble, hinder other kids abilities to learn, then they should be removed to another school, one that can handle troubled kids. It's better for ALL. Rather than having the teacher stand up in the middle of a class with a student who is disruptive and then she can't teach.

We are coddling students too much. If they shouldn't be there, they shouldn't be there. Deal with it.

(yes, cause I also heard that if you are under 18 and commit a crime in Atlanta then you are just released to your parents. Time and time again. The parents do nothing, and the kid is on the street again. It's INSANE. Head shakingly. The kids (and probably the parents) are well aware this is going on - they know that NOTHING is going to happen to them...so guess what they do).

It's an interesting turn of the topic: adults bulling kids at school, as Sue's story illustrates. It's all too easy to do for the teachers and the personnel, and mostly they are smart enough to berate the child w/o eyewitnesses. I'm blessed with a child who can quote people verbatim days later, and the teachers know it by now, but it lead to some funny incidents when he was in preschool and early grades. Fortunately, back then we also had a great principal who treated children with respect.

I think, Sue's point is that the school administration did not respond to their concerns, so the rough treatment of a child by the staff was bound to happen again (lunch lady? PE teacher? a sub?)

what's with this not hiting back? We tell our kids never to throw the first punch, but if someone hits you, you are more than entitled to hit them back. This is different than plotting revenge. Do you really tell your kids just to be punching bags?

YES! If they are in school - ANYONE who throws a punch is suspended or expelled, at least in Prince Georges County. Self defense is no excuse. Trying to get a child to understand that the penalties for hitting back can be extreme is nearly a lost cause. They only see the injustice. And I agree, but what can you do? Those are the rules, and we have all seen news reports of inflexible school rules that are applied without any thought.

greygoose, what you say seems to contradict so much of what I'm reading and hearing. It can't be that schools turn a blind eye AND suspend any kid that throws a punch.

that was me at 1:40, forgot to sign.

"Parents are 100% responsible, legally, for anything their
kids do"

Absolutely not! I'm sure it is age dependent and varies with state/jurisdiction, but if a 16 year old gets too many tickets, they certainly don't revoke the parents' license. Nor do they get charged if their 15 year old shoplifts.

Bulleying takes on many contexts; name calling, teasing, and from today's profile of a kid the had been clearly asulted. Whether the parents of the assailant are neglectful, abusive, or their child got aggressive and went overboard in a particular incident, I don't think things will change unless the bully receives the necessary corrective action. Yeah sure, as parents we should instill values in our kids, but in my opinion, it's the ultimate responsibility of the school to ensure a safe learning environment for all students.

Unfortunately in Montgomery county, you both get suspended too, no matter who throws the first punch -- or at least that was the case two years ago, hopefully they've changed that. All the kids had about the same reaction "so we're just supposed to let people wail on us?"

Other interesting bit about this is that I knew kids who didn't get punished for fighting by their parents if they got suspended for it -- but they did get punished if they didn't fight back (hello, parents and school working at opposite aims, and people *wonder* why the system's screwy).

Sorry greygoose, self defense is always appropriate, despite what some namby pambys might think. I will always support my child to defend himself. If school administrators don't like it , tough. We live in the real world.

I don't think that the bullies should be protected. They are violating their victim's right to peacefully attend school. Maybe because bullies are more popular, school administrators don't want to address the issue. However, I think the victims are more harmed by the bullying than the bullies would be harmed by having the school administrators stopping their behavior. I'm not sure if suing is the answer, based on my partner's experience.

About 7 years ago, my partner's high-school aged daughter was being bullied (taunting, namecalling) by a group of students. One male student, cheered on by the others, hit her with a water balloon and threatened her. My partner got a restraining order against him. The male student violated the restraining order. My partner took the case to court and the judge charged the student criminally. My partner agreed to drop the criminal charges, after graduation if the student left his daughter alone. The bully left the daughter alone. When the bully graduated, my partner dropped the charges. During this entire process, however, the other students continued to bully the daughter. At one point, my partner asked the principal if she was going to do anything about the students who continued to bully. The principal said, "No" and suggested, instead, that the daughter stay home for awhile.

Boys in my daughter's class said some nasty things to some of the girls. (Small Catholic school). School got VERY involved - had all parents in to discuss event and handling of it, had children discuss bullying/harrassement - treating each other with respect. Had lots of intervention and spent time reviewing sexual harrassment materials. Came down on this as a community problem and we need to punish bad behavior but also bring the bad actors back into the group and on and on and on.

The comments weren't directed at my daughter but after reviewing the materials and discussing the meetings, etc. I told her:

"Honey - if a boy makes a nasty comment to you - turn around and punch him as hard as you can. Mommy will deal with the principal."

Yea - I know I'm not p.c. and 2 wrongs don't make a right and all BUT - I want my child to stand up for herself, AND I want the jerks to learn a lesson the hard way.

" If somebody is systematically picked at, but overall is a good person, there are forces to bring a balance."

This seems to be saying that if you were bullied in an ongoing way, you deserved it. I don't think you really believe that.

Here! Here! Julia.

I'm from NY state, I think this article could have easily been about my son, or my nephew. I believe that bullying is a tool that some teachers use to 'spank' kids and administrators blame the law to support the teachers. It forces parents to sue. Once it starts its out of control. Theres a mob mentality and school administrators frequently punish the victim to avoid liability. I couldn't find a lawyer in my county that would sue for civil rights violation because they worked for the school district. I was only allowed to sue for special ed. It's dangerous, scary and has long, long consequences. Even though there have been lots of programs to address bullying they never do.

Until educators feel responsible to intervene and care for children who are in their care nothing will happen. As long as administrators blame the law that protects disability, children will get hurt. The message is administrators and teachers want to classify kids and get them out of their school. They don't care if they have to have them hit by other students or their parents. As long as teachers and administrators need parents to sue to get resources for them to do their jobs, kids will be a football in the system.

"Honey - if a boy makes a nasty comment to you - turn around and punch him as hard as you can. Mommy will deal with the principal."

I could not disagree more. Encouraging a girl to hit a boy sets her up for a beating. For some reason women have grown up thinking that nothing will happen if they do this, well in this day and age that could be very costly. Take a 110 girl hitting a 175 lb boy who then punches her in the face and your daughter could quickly end up in the hospital. Chivalry is dead.

A person, including a child, has the right to defend themselves.

When I was in high school and taking self-defense, we were taught over and over about our legal rights if we were ever assaulted. In our state, a person could legally defend themselves using approximately the same amount of force being directed at them,. In other words, a person couldn't legally draw a knife in a fistfight. We also could never start a fight, but we knew we could fight back if necessary.

Now, however, most schools have moronic rules in place about fighting now so that they can simply suspend everyone involved regardless of guilt.

To make the dichotomy clearer - if an administrator saw the fight, it was everybody out. Reports of bullying (in gym, stairwells, playground out of teacher's sight) were not acted on. Remember, this was OUR experience in a large public school were we were in the minority. At least my children can understand being one of the relatively few - good training for adulthood. Tends to color my entire perception of school systems.

Honey - if a boy makes a nasty comment to you - turn around and punch him as hard as you can. Mommy will deal with the principal."

"I could not disagree more. Encouraging a girl to hit a boy sets her up for a beating. For some reason women have grown up thinking that nothing will happen if they do this, well in this day and age that could be very costly. Take a 110 girl hitting a 175 lb boy who then punches her in the face and your daughter could quickly end up in the hospital. Chivalry is dead."

Again - I pointed out she goes to a tiny Catholic school - not a big public school. My advice would likely have been different if she'd gone to my old school - so ViennaDad, I think maybe we went to the same one? Full of bullying jerks?

The advice will depend on the situation - but the comments the boys were making were sexually explicit and disgusting, the setting was a tiny school where there are adults and parents everywhere, and I think the best way to stop bad behavior is to stand up to the jerk, AND demonstrate your lack of fear - even fear of consequences such as punishment by the admin.

Of course, IF she were in a big city, down a dark alley, and a guy makes the same type of comment comment - the advice becomes:

"Honey, run as fast as you can."

Our children attend a public school with a NO BULLYING policy. They can't even look at another kid with evil in their eye.

At first I thought that was crazy; dirty looks outlawed? But it works. The administration used the NYC policy that if you hit the misdemeanors, the bigger crimes will go down.

I hate to think of moving. Our kids are happy to go to school and they know very firmly the rules because they are posted in every classroom, the office and the handbook. Cause and effect laid out for all to see. Parents and children have the rules to use to protect themselves and their children.

I absolutely love our school for the simple reason that our administration has found a way to make the environment a safe, positive one for the kids. Now, the worst offenders are the teachers, but we are working on that too.

I am sure that there are no bullying programs out there for anyone interested to bring to the school board. Only foolish board members would turn it down if presented in a positive manner.

Our real estate sales and prices are the highest in the area because of the great school system. If one isn't motivated by love, one could be motivated by greed to put the policy in place.

"Sorry greygoose, self defense is always appropriate, despite what some namby pambys might think. I will always support my child to defend himself. If school administrators don't like it , tough. We live in the real world."

I point out the incident where we instructed him to take corrective action. But living in the real world means dealing with brain dead regulations in school. Their actions had a tremendous influence on his real life. Private schools WILL NOT (at least everyone around here) take the ADHD child - they don't have the resources for the special needs. So getting tossed out of public school for defending himself would have had terrible consequences. I know myself - home schooling would have been a disaster. So we worked the system as best we could and got through. And yes, it can be very difficult to expel a special ed/TAG child (which he was), but it can be done. That leads to a whole other frustration of the rules when the tormentor is special ed as well - no win situation.

" If somebody is systematically picked at, but overall is a good person, there are forces to bring a balance."

This seems to be saying that if you were bullied in an ongoing way, you deserved it. I don't think you really believe that.

Posted by: va | April 1, 2008 01:54 PM

Not saying that. Rather that if it's ongoing, someone has to give a kid some pointers how not to be a victim.
1. Deal with it immediately, don't create a reputation of a victim for yourself
2. If you see someone bullied, show support, be a force that brings balance, don't wait for them to ask. Dont's let bullies grow stronger.
3. Use you positive qualities to build a support base.
4. If it's more than a random snipe, and other kids don't see ANYTHING good about the kid being bullied, it's a case for the professionals. That counselor wondering the halls should do his/her job (again, without waiting for a kid or parents to ask).

The only thing bullies understand is force. Start fighting back; generally it only takes once then they'll move on to an easier target. If you can't get the job done on your own, pick up a rock, a brick, a stick, whatever, just be cognizant you don't want to kill them. But that said when you get the upper hand, give them a beatdown they'll remember. This not only deters them, it deters others.

Greygoose, when I read your son's story, he reminded me of my son, who is also ADHD, heavy on the H and on impulsivity. He also will react with hitting and be the first one seen. To be honest, he's done some hitting himself. We're also Prince George's County residence, and yes, both the hitter and the "hit-ee" can be suspended. And they suspend there at the drop of a hat.

My son is not bullied per se but teased here and there. This is partly because of his disabilities (he's also high-functioning autistic). I think this doesn't happen very often because he will stand up for himself (although sometimes in an over-the-top way). Because he has misbehaved himself, when he was hit, the teachers and principal did not often believe him.

I did have a problem with a bus aide restraining him on the school bus aggressively (against school system policy). My son told me and his school teachers. Well, I tried asking the aide and bus driver about this behavior, providing my son with strategies to avoid the restraints (he's impulsive. I was not very successful), and calling the school transportation dept. No change. I finally got onto the bus and told them they were not to touch my child and what actions I would take if they did it again.

Things calmed down after that. They insisted on a harness for him (it's like a vested seatbelt), and I agreed for his safety. Mistake. He hated it and even got out of it.

Interestingly enough, he had very few bus incidents before that year.

Eventually, I put him in a different school. This year, he has been able to ride the bus with few problems and no harness.

I also have my son taking Tae Kwon Do.

My daughter, who is 4 and is not disabled, lost her recess one day when a boy hit her and she hit him back (she's at a private school). They sat out recess together. I did tell her to tell the teacher instead of hitting back in school. But I certainly didn't feel upset about her standing up for herself.

I, on the other hand, was bullied as a child. It depended on the school and type of children attending. Those children who were inclined to argue, fight and pick on others all the time often would pick on me. Some I fought. One girl I didn't hit back; I had seen her knock the heck out of other people at school, and I was afraid I'd be beaten to a pulp.

Well, my mother made me feel ashamed of "not hitting back," and also told other relatives who criticized me. That made me feel rather inadequate for a while, although I did stick up for myself most of the time.

The thing about bullying is that you never forget it if you've been a victim. And sometimes victims can be blamed for being bullied, because they are seen as weak.

Mr. Randle:

I agree with you; I believe you hit the nail on the head. You cannot solve violence by using violence. I don't think it is ever okay to physically fight back. If the parents of the bully are indifferent and it doesn't stop, and if the school system will not step in and end it, then taking it through the court system is the appropriate action. If Billy Wolfe's school will not provide a safe learning environment for him, then they should have to foot the bills for a private school. This school is setting an example saying bullying others is okay. It has to stop.

"Sue, with all due respect, this is what I'm talking about regarding parents interfering when they shouldn't. You actually moved your child out of a school because a janitor yelled at him? ... I'm not saying the janitor was justified, I'm saying your response seems a bit of an overreaction."
Posted by: WorkingMomX | April 1, 2008 12:47 PM

If the janitor yelling at a student one time had been the only problem with that school, I would agree that changing schools was an overreaction. Unfortunately (for all concerned), the janitor's behavior included attempting to bully parents as well as students. This included telling DH that he "must be out of his mind" for expecting to talk with her. He was trying to find out what our kid had done wrong to prompt the yelling in the first place.

And the adminstration's response when my husband tried to correct the situation was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back...

Well, lets just say that we liked that kindergarten teacher and we were sad along with our little boy when he left her classroom on the last day, but nothing else was working or even *safe* at that school.

It is indeed a complex issue. I can understand the good intentions of letting kids deal with it themselves, but the bully attitude/mindset begins pretty early, when kids are not at the point of dealing with anything like that on their own.

In my case, I simply always was the "weird kid." And shy. And fat. My experiences ranged from taunting and teasing to full on ostracision. When I saw the adults did nothing- I took that to mean it was ok for it to happen and there was nothing I could do.

When I couldn't hide it anymore, my mother did finally take action and that took care of that person for that year. But again, I was always the "weird kid" and kids will attack anything they perceive to be very different/weaker. And usually get away with it.

And at some point I realized it was somewhat more shameful to have to admit to teachers that you sit alone every day because everyone thinks you're lesbian, or that they threw gum in your hair because you're fat.

I got through it decently enough, I'm a smart enough cookie to have never internalized it myself or felt it would seriously never end- and I loved school and learning so NOT going just never seemed like the right option to me.

I think if we had a lot more early prevention, open discussion and definitely quick retribution to the bullies themselves, it would eliminate a lot of the problems later on.

Perhaps if people realized the long-term effects of such bullying, they would be willing to act sooner or encourage the victims to act. I was physically and psychologically abused throughout elementary and middle school. (Why? I was a sensitive, quiet, ugly, nerdy female only-child with exceptional academic ability, combined with parents who didn't teach me how to hide that ability to a degree of social acceptability.) I was too shy to complain, but the teachers must have known about most of it, yet did nothing. I never acted both b/c I was scared of the potential consequences and b/c had no experience with physical confrontation. It only ended in 8th grade when I "snapped" (no conscious decision made) and punched one of my (female) tormentors in the mouth. I was suspended for 3 days, but the trade-off for a peaceful rest of JHS was worth it.

Unfortunately, 20 years later, I am very shy and nervous, and I get angry (though never violent) for no discernable reason. (And, yes, I've been in therapy since college.) It might have made such a difference in my life if the teachers hadn't taken such a "kids will be kids" attitude.

It is the schools job to ensure a safe learning enviroment. But schools are limited to what they can do and parents are not making it easy on them. When little Johnny's mother or little Susie's father comes down to the school screaming because their little angel couldn't possibly done X, Y, or Z. And some parents even choose to bring a lawyer, what the heck do you think the school suppose to do? But honestly, the school is responsible for your child for at most 13 years or so. Your responsible for your child for life. I would be embarrassed if my kids were bullies. I don't understand why the parents of the bullies are constantly fighting for their child's right to be a menance to society. In the long run, it does their child no good to allow them to act uncivilized. Seriously, forget legality. Where are the parent's morality in the situation?

Liz D: Yes, you were very fortunate not to have internalize the behavior of others (your description describes my own experience fairly well), and/or especially the failure of anyone in power to intercede. Good for you!

"if it's ongoing, someone has to give a kid some pointers how not to be a victim."

Once again, you're not getting it. You seem to believe that either a kid will have a strong enough circle of friends to jump in and help stop a bully, or if he doesn't, it's because there's something so weird or wrong with him that he needs some professional counseling. My view of kids is far more "Lord of the Flies" -- the stronger will always pick on the weaker unless there's some guiding force that teaches them that that's not acceptable.

You want to know why my bully targeted me? Three reasons: (1) I was the new kid; (2) I had glasses; and (3) I was smarter than him, and he knew it. Each and every one of those things has historically made a perfect bully target; I was lucky enough to get the trifecta. Oh, and (4) my mom was a poor single mom -- you know the old song, "if her daddy's rich, take her out for a meal; if her daddy's poor, just do what you feel." Note that I didn't choose any of those things -- and no amount of "pointers" was going to make them go away.

As I said before, I had all sorts of advice and "pointers" on how not to be a victim. I tried all of it, and none of it worked. Because back then, everyone thought that kids will be kids, let the kids work it out themselves, it'll toughen her up, if you get bullied it's because you're weird or different and just need to learn to "fit in" better. And when that's how you raise your kids, is it any surprise that they don't see any reason to jump in and protect bullying? Because the bullying itself then becomes the evidence that the victim must be a loser -- and who wants to be identified with a loser?

"Teaching" the victims only goes so far. One kid cannot stop bullying by himself; you need parents teaching their kids that bullying is not acceptable, and teachers enforcing those values. I'm all for teaching kids skills -- but you've got to backstop them with a culture that blames the bully, not the victim. There will always, always be kids who are "different" in some way, and bullying is never, ever an acceptable response to that.

Vienna Dad - do you think Bullying only happens in public schools?

Thank you Moxie - hitting back is called self defense in my house. I don't train my kids with punching bags, but I have told them that if someone hits them, slug them back and it will be the last time they get picked on.

While I absolutely believe is fighting back, don't believe that for a second that it will work all of the time. The bully that lived on my block had three older brothers all of which were Golden Glove boxers. This kid was trained from an early age how to fight and he didn't mind getting hit. I saw him fight plenty of older kids. He usually won but no matter how brutal the fight he always came back for more. My kids will be learing Thai Boxing (Muay Thai) and/or Brazialian jiu-jitsu or KravMaga. Most martial arts are ok for sport but for real self defense I'd pick one that is proven.

Something no one has mentioned yet is the bystanders.

Our local public elementary has a very strong anti-bullying program, and one of the main points they have is that if one person is bullied, it's everyone's problem. The group is responsible for stopping it. Sounds terrible if it's just one kid that's required to do it, but if there's a bunch that are standing up together to protect a victim, it makes a difference.

I've only talked to kids in the younger grades about it, but it seems pretty effective, in terms of turning the culture against the bully, as Laura mentioned.

Amen neighbor - this doesn't just apply to bullying, it applies to all kinds of behavior and it applie to adults as well. how often do adults stand by and let things happen to others too. Wise words to end on.

I'll just add that Neighbors idea is really great, empowering to everyone and nurturing a sense of "damage to one is damage to all." But it won't be effective in all situations. In cases of full ostracision, even nice kids who would be inclined to get friendly with the "weirdo" will be too afraid to be shunned themselves and "catch" the problem.

I listened to the teachers and my parents tell me the same old bull**** line about non-violence while I was bullied by a series of sadists- one of whom died of a drug overdose by age 18 and another who was in jail for aggravated assault by age 21. Non-violence has never worked in response to bullying. When I turned 14, I said enough is enough and fought back and that's when the bullying stopped- when they realized that I no longer cared about getting sent to the principal's office. Luckily the principal knew what was going on and suspended the bullies and only made me clean chalkboards after class.

There is no amount of nonviolent reaction that will stop someone so sadistic that they'll be dead by 18 or in jail by 21. Think about it. The psychopaths you read about in crime reports may have been less violent in junior high but not MUCH less violent. In my junior high of 800 kids is it any surprise that two bullies were bad enough to end up dead and in jail by 21? Those kids had scrambled brains from childhood.

But as someone who went through this, I have to reiterate, do not let your kids become anyone's punching bag based on your politics or religious beliefs. I deal with these memories every day.

It's intriguing to me how many posters think it's just fine to use violence to deal with violence.
--------

Because Bill, it's the only response that works with sadists. period. Ask a therapist if you want to. Guess who went to therapy to deal with 3 years of violent bullying and learned how to really deal with it?

You?

HA! You're so wrong you're funny.

I'm grateful my kids can attend a small private school.

------------

Uhhh... confused person... where did the bullies who got expelled from my school end up? They went to the prep school a mile away and chased us home in their blazers and ties.

"Vienna Dad - do you think Bullying only happens in public schools?"

Of course not, it depends on the school. I'm certain there are many private schools where bullying is a serious problem.

In our area, we have many schools to choose from. We've chosen a small school with a high degree of parental involvement inside and outside the classroom. In our school situation, the bully -- not the victim -- would be expelled, period.

While our neighborhood public schools are quite good, I would be wary of their ability to handle bullying.

wow does this bring back memories. i personally feel the only way to deal with a bully is to 'fight back'.

when i was in 9th grade there was a senior who insisted on verbally abusing me every single day. he went out of his way to walk past me and use a derogatory name. the kid was at least 6 ft and in my eyes huge! i was about 5ft 2in and about 120 pounds. i had no clue as to how to deal with it. now growing up my mother always told me to defend myself but never hit first. so this guy was verbal but not physical; what was a girl to do? i finally told my mom, she asked me one question 'how big is he?' when i told her he was the same size as my older brother she told me the next time he says something to me to take off my clog and hit him as hard as i could in the head. well i didn't have the nerve until one day i just broke. i snatched of my clog and swung with everything i had. he stumbled forward, turned around grabbed the front of my shirt and gave me a couple of good punches to the jaw. i didn't tell a teacher but in my next class i was bawling. when i was sent to the principles office i told what happened and the kid was expelled. i never saw him again. fast forward to high school graduation....i found out that after that incident all of the other 'bullies' wouldn't mess with me because i chose to 'fight' a guy twice my size! I laughed so hard i almost peed on myself. i get my butt kicked and i scared other bullies.

this incident did teach me to stand up for myself no matter what. even before this incident i was usually the first to stand up for someone else. a friend of mine in 7th grade wore glasses and a bit chubby. other girls always teased her verbally and physically. i told her to stick up for herself and they would leave her alone. one day one of the bullies finally threw done the gauntlet 'i'll be waiting for you after lunch!'. i told my friend that when the bully swings jump in with everything she's got! well she didn't and was getting pummeled. i immediatley stepped in and told the bully to stop or she would have to fight me too and that she was going to far (kicking the girl on the ground). the bully punched her a couple of times and my friend curled up in a ball on the ground. the bully got in 1 kick before i stepped in. believe it or not after that the bully never messed with her again, i found out later that was due to my actions.

i can't stand to see anyone pushed around.

I have a 12 year old daughter who has been bullied for over 2 years now.The reasons have been varied from her race to her clothes. She is constantly lied about and alienated from the other students & has been pushed around & even had her head slammed into a cement wall- which caused a concussion. I have talked to the principal of the school who told me "If you knew the type of homelife these girls are forced to live with you would empathize" Are you kidding me?! I recently found a suicide letter my daughter had wrote-citing that because she doesn't fit in and everyone hates her she wishes she could die! I took this to her principal who told me how sorry she was but it is impossible to watch every child all the time- regardless that this has been going on for 2 years now! I have called the parents and asked them if we can find a way to work this out so the kids respect each other-all that did is cause even more retaliation for my daughter. Don't get me wrong she is not perfect-but I don't think she deserves to feel this way EVERYDAY because some little snots feel they can treat people this way. I agree- the parents need to be held responsible for their children and the morals they instill in them! I think the schools should adopt a ZERO tolerance policy for bullying and the punishments should be more severe-afterall I am entrusting the school to keep my kid in a safe environment.

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I found this column and comments as I searched the web for "suing parents of bullies".

My son (13) has been victimized for the past 5 years by two boys his age (one of whom is twice his size, literally). The bigger kid has been removed from the school district before, in 5th grade, for breaking a child's arm. He's back now, in 7th grade, tormenting my son. The other kid,his buddy, verbally taunts my son and has exposed himself while the other boy held my son down on the ground.

When my son's dad was dying of lung cancer (my son was 8) these kids said "I hope your father dies". These aren't just bullies... they are sick kids. Their parents are alcoholics and mentally ill in their own right.

The school says they are taking "appropriate action" but can't tell me what that is.

When the attacks occur in our condo complex and not in school, the police say they cannot arrest these boys until they turn 16, or until they cause serious physical injury to my son. I am unwilling to wait for either of those things to occur.

I wrote a scathing letter to the local paper, and five other parents called me to say that their kids have been targeted by the same two boys. The paper wrote a followup article, but in it the police reiterate that under juvenile law, they can't do anything.

My son is on a special bus now that drops him in front of our door, because he could not walk home from the bus stop without being assaulted.

That leaves me with only two choices... either to sue the district for not throwing these kids out, or suing the parents for the harm that these kids have done to my son. Or both.

I am trying to see if I can obtain an order of protection against them, a PINS petition, or get the County Attorney to press charges. I've considered calling Child Protective Services and report the parents for neglect.

Not only do they not STOP their kids from targeting others, in the case of the bigger kid the father has actually verbally harassed my son himself, and me as well.

I am sick of this. I work fulltime and have to race home early every day because I'm worried about what may have happened at school.

One thing we can do is make sure our kids watch a video on You Tube called "Hero in the Hallway".

In the meantime, I will use whatever legal means I have to get this to end. The district should thank me for suing them now, instead of getting sued after these kids show up in High School with semi-automatic weapons and start killing people. If that happens, they will not be able to say "We didn't see it coming."