My 2nd had a small outbreak in spite of the vaccine. I had no idea what it was. They were mostly on her back and made her really uncomfortable. Honestly, I originally thought they were bug bites. The next day they scabbed over which is why we went to the pediatrician and how we found out what they were. It only took about 2 days after that for them to disappear.

I did ask my pediatrician to spread out our children's infant vaccinations. I did not think it was necessary to have more than one or two at a time. I do, however, believe that vaccines are necessary and I don't appreciate other people choosing to put my kids' at risk by reintroducing diseases to our society that we have long since erradicated.

I did ask the pediatrician when my oldest was small whether or not the chicken pox vaccine was necessary. From my experience, it was a disease that wasn't particularly harmful and everyone got it, what was the big deal? She explained that some children die, and the other side effects (mentioned above).
The kids were vaccinated.
As for not vaccinating your kids - when they go to school, the schools ask for the forms from the doctor, so I guess you have to find a school where they don't require vaccinations...do they even exist?

Tallies are in for August

2384 contributions were submitted by 925 different posting names. There was an average of 119.7 posts per topic.

Top 10 individuals listed below

23 Alex
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Tallies are in for August

2384 contributions were submitted by 925 different posting names. There was an average of 119.7 posts per topic.

Top 10 individuals listed below

23 Alex
23 WorkingMomX
23 Emily
23 Me
25 quark
27 Donna
27 Whacky Weasel
32 Grammar Sheriff
32 Sue
23 Billie
35 Nancy
47 ArmyBrat
72 atlmom
586 Anonymous

Posted by: Blog Stats | September 2, 2008 7:45 AM

0 = # of times Blog Stats got laid

"Anybody not vaccinating for chicken pox or measles puts their child and their neighbor's children at risk for death. We need to think about whether that's fair,"

Oh for heaven's sake. Is anybody else thoroughly sick of being warned constantly that if they don't do x-and-such, THEIR CHILD COULD DIE!!!!!

I had my daughter vaccinated on schedule, and I believe that vaccinating is the responsible thing to do. But even before the vaccine existed, death from chicken pox was very, very rare. It really bugs me when people take these infinitesimal risks and act like one is a bad parent for not taking every possible step to eliminate the risk entirely, no matter how expensive or troublesome (car seat manufacturers are great at this, too).

This vaccine was introduced long after our kids were small children. But I cannot understand why anyone would not be vaccinated against any common disease. Why would you make your child suffer if a proven vaccine is available?

My father almost died of lockjaw when he was 11 or so. I could not understand why he did not have the simple precaution of a tetanus shot. Well, tetanus shots did not exist in 1933. (same for penicillin before the 1940's)

On an unrelated note, we are safe and dry up in Alabama and apparently our house is safe. But there was definitely some hurricane damage where we live.

"The vaccine was never designed to prevent all chicken pox," Kimberlin says.

Link?

You can generally get an exemption for religious or ethical reasons for non-vaccination. At least in Texas, all schools are required to accept these exemptions.

We waited on most vaccines - or at least did them much, much more slowly than recommended. And we weighed the potential risk of the vaccine against the potential risk of the disease. We are thoughtful about the place where we live and the places where we travel and outbreaks rather than following traditional medical advice without question.

But this is such a highly charged topic. This was the right thing for me and my family. If you and your family have different needs or a different focus, that's just fine. But I do wish that we all were able to stop making (and quoting) fear-factor statements like: "Anybody not vaccinating for chicken pox or measles puts their child and their neighbor's children at risk for death." That doesn't do anyone any good.

I wonder how this will help reduce Shingles, since the Chicken Pox virus never truly leaves the system once it is in your body? I was always told that if you had an outbreak of Chicken Pox as a child, then later in life if you had Shingles, the episode would not be as bad as if you had never had Chicken Pox.

Fred, great to hear you're okay, and hope your house is too. Always good to start the work week with good news.

"But I cannot understand why anyone would not be vaccinated against any common disease. Why would you make your child suffer if a proven vaccine is available?"

Because no vaccine is risk free. Like any other medical intervention or treatment, engaging in an analysis of cost vs. benefit is prudent. Why would you encourage your child to take on any medical treatment without considering those risks? Take a look at the statistics on the polio vaccine for a real-life lesson in how the government sometimes cooks the books by revising the definitions of diseases so that vaccines seem "proven" when they may not be.

Caviat emptor is as applicable to health issues and "proven" treatments as it is to selecting televisions and boats.

I'm not even gonna get involved in this debate today - too screechy and angry.

Fred, glad to hear you are safe and dry and Frieda is done with the chemo! I'll keep sending good vibes your way.

Caviat emptor is as applicable to health issues and "proven" treatments as it is to selecting televisions and boats.

Posted by: Oh, brother | September 2, 2008 8:36 AM

Spelling Police!

I had a co-worker who'd been an only child and never had the chicken pox. He caught it from his children, and it was awful. He was quite sick and the pocks were ugly.

With the vaccination becoming prevalant and the disease on the wan you don't want to let your child not have immunity because it's so unpleasant to get as an adult.

I'm not even gonna get involved in this debate today - too screechy and angry.

Posted by: moxiemom | September 2, 2008 8:42 AM

You just did get involved, duh.

My children had all received the chicken pox soon after the vaccine was introduced to the US. Immediately prior to a jouney to Europe last year, the youngest received the booster shot as we became aware that there was an issue in the duration of the protection. While on the trip, all the children spent the day with a two-year old with the illness -- we learned immediately afterwards of the exposure but were unconcerned because they had been vaccinated. However, within a couple of weeks, both of the older children without the booster developed chicken pox. They were both extremely ill for a week or so and had hundreds of spots, unlike what is being described for "breakthrough" chicken pox.
There is an issue for US children when they are exposed to children of other countries with different vaccination regimes. In our case, there was no chicken pox vaccination in the country we visited so chicken pox was widespread in the way it would have been a generation ago in the US. Our children were vulnerable because of their waning immunity. Presumably, many more need the booster here in the US but they are not receiving the exposures in the general community that make that obvious as the general chicken pox rate is so low.

"Because no vaccine is risk free. Like any other medical intervention or treatment, engaging in an analysis of cost vs. benefit is prudent."

Yup, and the cost/benefit would point out to any rational parent that Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio and many other communicable diseases are relatively rare in the U.S. due to vaccine recommendations being followed.

I am sure that there are individuals that certain immunizations are contraindicated but I feel the numbers are not near as great as the hysteria surrounding the subject.

My son caught the chicken pox last year despite the vaccination. Several doctors, ranging from the local pediatrician to an allergist, were unable to identify the disease.

The medical community basically dismissed the chicken pox concept after we said that he had been vaccinated. Considering how many doctors couldn't recognize the illness, the 15% number seems high.

My 20mth old is not vaccinated against Chicken pox. That is because we live in the UK and it's not on the vaccine schd. So it's not a case of putting your child in the back seat without seatbelt.
That said, if they offer it, I would take it, as this will then eliminate her chance of getting shingles as it is the same virus, difference manifestation. I came to that conclusion as I had an outbreak of shingles when baby was 4mth old! It's so painful (and no pain killers works)it was unreal!
Get your kids vaccinated! You don't want them to get chicken pox as an adult and definitely not getting shingles as a vulnerable senior.

My 9 yo had chicken pox this past January despite having been vaccinated. It was caught by the school nurse and confirmed by our pediatrician. It was a mild case but definitely had more that 50 pox. But most never crusted over and they looked more like mosquito bites. We pretty much consider it a non-event in our house, she wasn’t sick or itchy.

As it happens I have never had chicken pox (both my siblings had it as adults). I did get the vaccine and it seems I have some immunity because I didn’t get it.

Fred: Glad to hear you are safe and sound.

As for shingles, my mom had it as an adult and let me tell you, it is apparently extremely painful. I believe she had chicken pox as a kid (since three of us had it, I would suspect she had had it earlier and wasn't susceptible to it at the time). She was in incredible pain. Maybe it was a shorter duration or something, but if it can be worse if you *haven't* had chicken pox, i'm not sure that's possible...

fr oh brother:

>...Take a look at the statistics on the polio vaccine for a real-life lesson in how the government sometimes cooks the books by revising the definitions of diseases so that vaccines seem "proven" when they may not be...

Would you rather have a one-time shot, or a lifetime of problems from having polio? Grow UP, quit the stupid conspiracy theories, and get a life.

"I was always told that if you had an outbreak of Chicken Pox as a child, then later in life if you had Shingles, the episode would not be as bad as if you had never had Chicken Pox."

If you have never had Chicken Pox, you can't get Shingles. Shingles are a reactivation of the chicken pox virus along a nerve.

The vaccine debate is about what is best for society vs. what is best for an individual. It is not easy, but personally, I think that having the vaccines is better. Of course, some people will get the disease, or have reactions to the vaccine, but the alternative is *everyone* getting the disease, and/or bad side effects from having the disease, etc. If you are the only one not vaccinated, then you are benefiting from everyone else getting vaccinated.

The "post-vaccine" era is better known as the "pre-epidemic" era!

Go get the shot, already. Best for your child and best for society.

I had chicken pox as a child (have the scars to prove it) and have had shingles every 10 years since I was in 4th grade. They have better drugs now, but the pain and itching is just awful. You bet vaccines are better!! I am glad my kids won't have to deal with this. My 6 year old had the infant shots and the booster at 5 before she started at FCPS.

Would you rather have a one-time shot, or a lifetime of problems from having polio? Grow UP, quit the stupid conspiracy theories, and get a life.

Posted by: Alex | September 2, 2008 9:45 AM

I'd rather make my medical choices based on facts not the rantings of the insulters. It's amazing how irate you get when someone makes choices based on facts and not your hysterical rantings, based on known side effects documented in the information provided by every single physician. You probably don't read the information your physician provides, though, because you live in fear that facts will undermine your assumptions.

"I wonder how this will help reduce Shingles, since the Chicken Pox virus never truly leaves the system once it is in your body?"

That's actually why the chicken pox vaccine isn't widely used in the UK, like AtlanticMum says.

See http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=1032. Occasional exposure to the varicella virus (say, by being around kids with chicken box) acts as an immunization booster for adults, and dramatically decreases the likelihood of shingles.

The fear is that, if no kids have chicken pox and adults can't get the immunity boost that way, the incidence of shingles will skyrocket.

So (some) kids get chicken pox in order to prevent adults from getting shingles.

Brit logic.

"chicken box" = "chicken pox" in previous posting. Sorry.

"Yup, and the cost/benefit would point out to any rational parent that Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio and many other communicable diseases are relatively rare in the U.S. due to vaccine recommendations being followed."

The benefit accrues to both the individual AND also to society. The cost is ONLY paid by the individual. Rational parents know to examine both for their own child. The parent who earlier spoke of spacing vaccinations out is far more rational than the lemmings.

RE: Shingles. It is a reactivation of the Chicken Pox virus. I'm surprised to hear from the person that they have had it multiple times. My husband had it recently and was told that like the pox, once you had it that you could not (or at least were extremely unlikely to) get it again.

However, if you have a shingles outbreak, you are contagious with the chicken pox virus. So if my girls had not had the vaccination, they well could have gotten chicken pox from my husband's shingles rash.

I had an extremely severe case of pox as a child and developed a secondary bronchial infection. I'm very glad neither of my girls have had to go through that! And that makes me a firm believer in the vaccine.

I understand that some of the ingredients in the chicken pox vaccine are controversial. Does anyone know why?

shingles can always come back. And it can last a VERY long time - I know of a woman in MN who has struggled with it for 20+ years - pretty much 100% of the time. . .

Going to a public school? Guess what bring proOf of all these vaccinations. Don't want to?. STAY HOME. No religious exemptions, no, we didn't need them in Belize or whatever thirdworld country you came from. Problem solved.

"Most health organizations recommend the chickenpox vaccine. It provides about 95% protection from moderate or severe infection and 70% to 85% protection against mild infection.2 Occasionally people who receive the vaccine develop what is called breakthrough infection. This may occur when they are exposed to a "wild-type" chickenpox virus. But in these cases, the infection is mild, with fewer blisters and symptoms than the usual chickenpox infection. 2"

2. American Academy of Pediatrics (2003). Varicella-zoster infections. In LK Pickering, ed., Red Book: 2003 Report of the Committee on Infectious Diseases, 26th ed., pp. 672–686. Elk Grove, IL: American Academy of Pediatrics.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/chickenpox-varicella-prevention

"a review article on chicken pox in today's Pediatrics"

Link? Cite?

Look it up yourself, if you're that interested.

While the risks to the individual (unless the individual's immune system is compromised), are low, there are risks to the environment if everyone is vaccinated against chickenpox. Those risks increase the more effective the vaccine. If chickenpox -- an old, familiar opponent with which we have developed a stable relationship -- were eliminated, this might create a niche in the microscopic environment for a new, unknown, more virulent, human virus.

Thanks for posting Fred. I was thinking about you over the weekend and hoping you'd check in and let us know you were ok.

I had one kid get the chicken pox vaccine this year and her arm swelled up pretty severely. My kids have had almost no exposure to chicken pox, which astonishes me but it does suggest that wider use of the vaccine is working to prevent outbreaks in the schools.

Look it up yourself, if you're that interested.

Posted by: to Source, please | September 2, 2008 10:39 AM

Please don't be rude on this blog. Lets all be kind and gentle to one another.

I had one kid get the chicken pox vaccine this year and her arm swelled up pretty severely

-- that should read chicken pox vaccine *booster shot*

Look it up yourself, if you're that interested.

Posted by: to Source, please | September 2, 2008 10:39 AM

Is that WaPo policy?

to stu - The chicken pox vaccine uses a cell line from an aborted baby. That is one reason some people have an opposition to that particular vaccine. You can read this for yourself from the manufacture's insert which is available online.

Lets all remember to be kind and gentle when posting on this blog. No criticizing people or making mean comments about them. We don't want to get people upset!

Hugs!

Posted by: Nancy | September 2, 2008 11:28 AM

"The chicken pox vaccine uses a cell line from an aborted baby."

Bummer.

fr margaret:

>to stu - The chicken pox vaccine uses a cell line from an aborted baby...

Source/site/link, please?

fr margaret:

>to stu - The chicken pox vaccine uses a cell line from an aborted baby...

Source/site/link, please?

Posted by: Alex | September 2, 2008 12:00 PM

cuckoobirds.org

I found the insert by going to the Merck and Co site - they are the manufacturer's of the chickenpox vaccine. The name of the vaccine is Varivax. You can also find a link right to the insert at www.associatedcontent.com page 2 of the article on the vaccine.

My kids were not vaccinated for chicken pox. My brother-in-law was hospitalized for 5 days when he got chicken pox as an adult. Better that they get it as children. School entry w/o that vaccination is no difficulty whatsoever. It's kind of a joke, actually!

My kids were not vaccinated for chicken pox. My brother-in-law was hospitalized for 5 days when he got chicken pox as an adult. Better that they get it as children. School entry w/o that vaccination is no difficulty whatsoever. It's kind of a joke, actually!

Posted by: WorkingMomX | September 2, 2008 12:26 PM

CSS graduate.

It is unfortunate that the chicken pox vaccine provides only temporary immunity, which wanes significantly after a year or two. Within a generation, we will have an entire adult population of people who were vaccinated as a child but now have little remaining immunity. If they get chicken pox as an adult, they will be much more at risk of death or severe illness than if they had gotten it as a child. What is even worse is that mothers of the future (if vaccinated)will not be passing effective varicella antibodies to their newborns, because they did not have chickenpox as a child. The vaccine will not stimulate effective amounts of maternal antibodies. And doctors agree it is not safe to vaccinate newborn infants for the disease. Chickenpox vaccination is a well-intentioned but shortsighted policy that could have serious ramifications for our children and grandchildren. Children are better protected if they get chickenpox as a disease and use natural methods to strengthen their immune systems to get through it; they are more likely to have lifetime immunity and to pass maternal antibodies to their infants.

Can anyone explain to me a good scientific reason for delaying vaccines? I understand delaying the flu shot because it has been known to cause negative reactions in people with egg allergies (and is administered at an age prior to solid food introduction).

But for all the rest: what is the logic of getting one shot or two shots at a time? A baby is exposed to thousands of new proteins at any given time, how does six or 12 more make a difference?

Children are better protected if they get chickenpox as a disease and use natural methods to strengthen their immune systems to get through it; they are more likely to have lifetime immunity and to pass maternal antibodies to their infants.

Posted by: Jerri | September 2, 2008 12:46 PM

"maternal antibodies" is code for Nursing Nazi

Re: margaret's 12:19 post:

also, see http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/varicella.pdf, p 183:

"The virus was attenuated by sequential passage in human embryonic lung cell culture, embryonic guinea pig fibroblasts, and in WI-38 human diploid cells."

Where do you think they got those "human embryonic lung cell"s?

To anonymous: please acquaint yourself with the term placenta. I wonder if there is a moderator on board?

Source, please: The article in Pediatrics is here: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/122/3/e744. And all the quotes and information from the doctors were from interviews I had with them.

Source, please: The article in Pediatrics is here: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/122/3/e744. And all the quotes and information from the doctors were from interviews I had with them.

Posted by: Stacey Garfinkle | September 2, 2008 1:18 PM

The link doesn't work. What is the cite?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/122/3/e744

Where do you think they got those "human embryonic lung cell"s?

Posted by: m2j5c2 | September 2, 2008 1:02 PM

*******************

These come from stem cells, cultivated in a petri dish, NOT aborted babies.

Puhleeze

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/varicella.pdf, p 183:

Stacey, I would appreciate your commentary
on the link that was noted in a previous post. Thank you.

Children are better protected if they get chickenpox as a disease and use natural methods to strengthen their immune systems to get through it

Posted by: Jerri | September 2, 2008 12:46 PM

Nonsense. The illness is far riskier than the vaccine.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Germs/story?id=5703895&page=1

Where do you think they got those "human embryonic lung cell"s?

Posted by: m2j5c2 | September 2, 2008 1:02 PM

Narnia.

Please stop attacking each other. Its bringing me to tears!

Do you think that presenting differing information and viewpoints automatically constitutes an attack, even if it's done factually and unemotionally?

Or do you think that whoever states something first gets to go unchallenged, even if they're wrong?

Do you think that presenting differing information and viewpoints automatically constitutes an attack, even if it's done factually and unemotionally?

Or do you think that whoever states something first gets to go unchallenged, even if they're wrong?

Posted by: to Nancy | September 2, 2008 2:07 PM

There's one born every minute!!

Nancy = Duh!

Nancy is the "secret" daughter of abt and ArmyBrat...........

The risk of having chicken pox for the first time as an adult is far scarier than getting it as a child. But everyone has different risk tolerance levels. Three of my cousins are doctors, all have their children vaccinated, but even they admit that the chance of something going really wrong when a kid gets chicken pox is so incredibly rare, it's hard to believe insurance will pay for the vaccination. My sister refuses to vaccinate her child at all. To each his/her own.

Paging Jeff Stryker. Nancy is looking for you...

Jeff is still recovering from having his stryker and dingleberries chomped off by Frankie the dog.

This debate is ignoring an important fact that I became aware of because my wife has multiple sclerosis. The fact is that adults like my wife and people who are immuno-suppressed because they have had radiation treatments for cancer or take immuno-suppressing drugs for organ transplants or who are HIV positive or who have other medical conditions are at great risk of death if infected by children because parents did not think it was important to have their children get vaccinated. I know you may not care, but as a society we have decided to use our intelligence to fight diseases by developing vaccines and vaccination policies. I am always amazed by the "pro-life" religious zealots that jeopardize other peoples' lives by not following fact-based science and getting their children vaccinated.

Children are better protected if they get chickenpox as a disease and use natural methods to strengthen their immune systems to get through it; they are more likely to have lifetime immunity and to pass maternal antibodies to their infants.

Posted by: Jerri | September 2, 2008 12:46 PM

I don't agree. I had a nasty case of it at age 14 with blisters, some of which were disfiguring. I wouldn't wish this on my darkest enemy. And knowing that I can still get shingles down the road as a extra added bonus just makes me mad. I will vacinate my son until he turns 90.

The risk of having chicken pox for the first time as an adult is far scarier than getting it as a child. But everyone has different risk tolerance levels. Three of my cousins are doctors, all have their children vaccinated, but even they admit that the chance of something going really wrong when a kid gets chicken pox is so incredibly rare, it's hard to believe insurance will pay for the vaccination. My sister refuses to vaccinate her child at all. To each his/her own.

Posted by: WorkingMomX | September 2, 2008 2:21 PM

Duh!??????

I'm so hurt right now. I don't understand the need for people to attack me left and right on different blogs on the washington post. its mean and insensitive, and i feel like crying after seeing people villify me all over the blogs, for absolutely no reason.

It's not just pro-life people doing that, rb. It's also the pro-nursing, attachment parenting crew that reads magazines like "Mothering" and who only want organic cotton near their kids, and toys that have been made from trees that fell down by themselves without any assistance from humans.

I say this with love and admiration (and a teeny bit of exasperation) since my darling sister is firmly with that group. We have some really interesting discussions.

Then there's the LARGE group at or below the poverty line that don't get their children insured because they can't afford to. And let's not forget uninsured and unvaccinated illegal aliens.

We really need universal coverage in this country, for everyone.

Have you ever commented on the substance of any of the chats where you post?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 2, 2008 2:43 PM

There are some legitimate reasons for not vacinating as well. When it was time for my boys to receive the vaccine, my father-in-law was undergoing chemotherapy for lung cancer and was therefore severely immune compromised. Since the chickenpox vaccine is a live attenuated virus, the recipients will actually shed virus for a period of time following vaccination. That was not something we could do at the time. We planned to vaccinate them when it was no longer a danger to my father-in-law but nature did it sooner. My older son had a very severe course with varicella pnemonia but ultimately did well. Looking back, I wouldn't have changed my decision to wait on the vaccine because we did not wish to quarantine the kids from their grandpa who wished to spend as much time at the end with them as he could. Had the outcome been diffent, I don't know...

I do have issue though with those who reject immunizations for "moral reasons" such as the source of a cell line or animal experimentation, etc. If their arguments are to have merit, then these people should also reject just about every other medical advance that has happened in the 20th century such as antibiotics. But usually the parent who refuses to immunize their child because they don't believe in them will be the first to drag their child into the doctor's office and demand an antibiotic b/c their child has had the sniffles for two days. These people are unfairly taking advantage of the community immunity and not contributing themselves. Selfish! Selfish!

But usually the parent who refuses to immunize their child because they don't believe in them will be the first to drag their child into the doctor's office and demand an antibiotic b/c their child has had the sniffles for two days.

These parents are so ignorant they don't realize that antibiotics have no effect on viruses, which cause the common cold.

To "too Nurse Ratchett": Why should we believe anything you say if you can't spell "to" correctly?

"These parents are so ignorant they don't realize that antibiotics have no effect on viruses, which cause the common cold. "
Posted by: too Nurse Ratchett | September 2, 2008 3:01 PM

Exactly my point!

Working Mom:

No, I had never heard of that movement in parenting. I can only imagine what your conversations with your sister must be like!

I agree with you about the poor and illegal aliens -- which makes my chances of catching the antibiotic-resistant form of TB not all that slim here in Alexandria, VA. It is a public health issue and we need the public health service to enforce the rules nationally.

Scarred: Yes, you describe a legitimate reason for waiting to have your children vaccinated. I understand your reasons for waiting and for second-guessing your decision but you were guided by your heart and I am sorry things did not work out the way you planned.

Travlyn and all:

There is now a vaccination for shingles that is recommended by the Center for Disease Control for people over 55. It is also a live-attenuated virus so the same kinds of issue exist for the shingles vaccine as the chicken-pox vaccine.

"These parents are so ignorant they don't realize that antibiotics have no effect on viruses, which cause the common cold. "
Posted by: too Nurse Ratchett | September 2, 2008 3:01 PM

Exactly my point!

sorry for the double post

fr Jerri:

>...Children are better protected if they get chickenpox as a disease and use natural methods to strengthen their immune systems to get through it; they are more likely to have lifetime immunity and to pass maternal antibodies to their infants....

Um, NOT true. You do NOT want your kids to get chickenpox, knowing full well that they are then more apt to come down with shingles as either an older child or adult.
Trust me, shingles is NOT a pleasant experience. Vaccinate your kids!

where's AB today? i haven't had to read 40 of his windbag posts today. its been nice!

Alex, I wholeheartedly agree with your last post. And let's not forget how many children (& adults)actually die each year from varicella vs how many die from the vaccine. A no brainer there....

Fred, great to hear you're okay, and hope your house is too. Always good to start the work week with good news.

Posted by: ArmyBrat | September 2, 2008 8:28 AM

Totally off topic,

We are home now and report no damage. (and lucky enough to have power!)

There are extensive problems with power from St. Tammany Parish thru Orleans parish and up to Central La. As well as damage of the usual sort by hurricanes.

BTW that was not this Fred at 1:13.

Sarah Palin is slated to be this board's moderator if her VP bid fails...

Actually, there are plenty of places to get free vaccinations. To say the poor and illegals cannot get these is false. They have to provide the same documentation to go to school as everyone else. When I went to grad school, I was pretty poor, and needed ALL the vaccinations they asked for (MMR, tb test, etc) because I could not locate any of the documents from when I was a kid.
SO I went to the free clinic in town. Had I not done that, I would not have been able to go to school, it's that simple. So if you have kids in the schools (and right, not everyone does, so if you're an adult and all, you might not be immunized, but it is quite unfair to say only the poor/illegals are not immunized...as someone from another country REGARDLESS of socioeconomic status, probably does not have the same immunizations).

"Totally off topic,

We are home now and report no damage. (and lucky enough to have power!)"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I am always amazed by the "pro-life" religious zealots that jeopardize other peoples' lives by not following fact-based science and getting their children vaccinated.

Posted by: rb | September 2, 2008 2:36 PM

wow - what a bizarre slam against pro-life persons, many of whom base their views on reasons having nothing to do with religious belief. Take your judgmental hogwash and shove it where the sun don't shine.

signed,

Pro-Choice and Hating How You Reflect On The Rest of Us

wow - what a bizarre slam against pro-life persons, many of whom base their views on reasons having nothing to do with religious belief. Take your judgmental hogwash and shove it where the sun don't shine.

signed,

Pro-Choice and Hating How You Reflect On The Rest of Us

Posted by: oh, brother | September 2, 2008 4:11 PM

Must be a Christian.....

where's AB today? i haven't had to read 40 of his windbag posts today. its been nice!

Posted by: ? | September 2, 2008 3:50 PM

dont induce him to post. none of us want to read his sanctimonious garbage.

if only you could get rid of Nancy

Fred, glad to hear that you and Frieda are back home safe and sound and that your home did not sustain damage. My brother in Baton Rouge said it was pretty rough there--they lost power and a bunch of tree limbs but otherwise came through it all right. Their street is blocked by downed trees and one neighbor's house had a tree fall on it.

Good luck with the clean-up!

I believe in vaccinations but for chicken pox? No!.  Historically, it has a low mortality rate.  If you care for your sick child and keep the child hydrated, the child will survive the disease. The best form of immunity from the disease is actually having the disease.  It also keeps shingles away from the community.  Varicella is becoming more virulent because we are suppressing it and it is fighting back.  Millions of ignorant mothers gave their children the varicella vacine in the 90s and now have to give them boosters because they've discovered those first shots were just useless.  For me, I say see if the child gets the disease before school age before giving the first shot.  Too many vaccines may lead to autism.  Now, that is another arguement.

NO vaccines lead to autism. That is a fallacy.

fr Happy:

>... For me, I say see if the child gets the disease before school age before giving the first shot...

Then blame ONLY yourself if your kid comes down with SHINGLES later on.

recipients will actually shed virus for a period of time following vaccination.

How long? A week, a month, many months? Documentation, please.

There is a theory that re-exposure to wild chicken pox virus boosts the immunity of adults who previously had varicella, and thus prevents shingles. 15 years ago, shingles was a disease of old age--it was found typically in people who were not routinely around young kids and thus not re-exposed to the virus. Now we see adults in their 30s and 40s coming down with sometimes very debilitating cases of shingles.

If children who receive the vaccine can still develop mild or even sub-clinical cases -- thus leaving the virus dormant in their system so that it can later be reactivated as shingles -- then there is a valid question as to the value of the vaccine at all. Are we just creating a bigger health problem for these kids, who will grow up and develop shingles in earlier adulthood, losing time from work and family?

Sorry, I don't have cites for the articles. I read them 3 years ago when my previously-vaccinated 7 year old was hospitalized and receiving IV anti-virals for shingles. Lots of time to surf the net when you're sitting in a hospital room in isolation for a week!

Just something to think about.

oh brother:

When my wife's life is placed in serious jeopardy by the religious zealots who won't vaccinate their children, how are they "pro-life"?

That's what I'd like to know.