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He Said, She Said: Two Takes on Palin

The Sarah Palin nomination and ensuing news reports about her family has left us lots to talk about. So, as a special blog treat today, Brian and I are sharing our views and reactions.

He Said: Assumptions

By Brian Reid


Full disclosure: All I really know about Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is that she is a mother and that she is the presumptive Republican vice presidential nominee. In my mind, the two facts are unrelated, but I am scared out of my wits that this election – in some small part – will be about whether a mother of five (or a mother of an infant) is automatically unqualified for the vice presidency.

I'm scared because it makes the dangerous assumption that a parent cannot remain fully engaged in both family and professional life. I believe you can find work-life balance no matter what your responsibilities may be. That balance may not look like "equally shared parenting." It may not look like my life, or yours, but there is no doubt in my mind that you can be an effective parent and a go-to-work parent.

The even more insidious part of this is that this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion if Palin were a dad. No one thinks twice about a father throwing himself into political or business life. I am unaware of anyone ever questioning whether or not John McCain's parental status – he has seven children – has affected his job. Ditto Barack Obama and his daughters. And Joe Biden, indeed, has been celebrated for his efforts to balance work and family after the tragedy that followed his election to the Senate.

Let me be clear: I don't have anywhere close to enough facts to pass judgment on Sarah Palin as a politician (and I have no desire to judge her as a mother), but I believe strongly that Palin ought be judged by the strength of her ideas and her professional record, not by the makeup of her family.

She Said: Judgments

By Stacey Garfinkle


Sarah Palin is the perfect conservative next generation for the Republican Party. According to news reports, she opposes abortion and gay marriage. She supports teaching creationism along with evolution in public schools. She opposes embryonic stem cell research. She supports drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge. She is a member of the National Rifle Association. And she opposes programs that teach about contraception.

And since the moment that John McCain made her his pick for the Republican vice presidential nomination, we the people have been judging her most on one job: that of Mom.

I'm annoyed at myself for the traditionalist questions swirling in my head. How can she parent five kids well while running for -- and potentially serving in -- office? Yes, her husband is on leave from his job and stays home with the kids, but the infant is a Down's baby. That means 4-month-old Trig will need therapy and is more likely to have health issues. Having a crib in her office is fantastic and a model for workplaces everywhere. But while carrying the baby in a pouch during campaign events and meetings works for now, it won't for long.

My annoyed alternate personality says she'll have help via a babysitter on the campaign trail. Parents work long hours all the time, putting their kids in day care or with nannies and their kids grow up secure and happy. So, why is Sarah Palin any different?

First, her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant. What does that say about Palin as mom? Doesn't a pregnant teenage girl who is about to marry the baby's father really need her mom more than the country does? And should Palin have knowingly put her daughter through the media spotlight that comes with running for vice president? Teen-mom-to-be Bristol should be as off limits as Malia and Sasha Obama. But there's no way that will happen as long as candidate Palin is being presented on the ticket as the supermom we could all aspire to be. Second, we're not talking about a mom to one or two. We're talking about a mom to five with all the demands that come along the age spectrum of infant to teenager.

And finally, homey, rural Alaska is nothing like workaholic Washington, D.C. In Alaska, Palin has "her kids around her while she works" and "a deep bench of family and friends for child-care support," writes The Post's Lois Romano. If McCain-Palin win the election, will her village move with her?

Yes, I know I shouldn't factor those questions into my evaluation. But as a mom who lives in the hectic Washington, D.C., area and fully recognizes how important our family's village is in raising our two children, I can't help it.

How have you been judging Sarah Palin? Should her family play into your impression of her ... and has it?

By Stacey Garfinkle |  September 3, 2008; 7:00 AM ET  | Category:  Newsmakers
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Comments


Brian,

"I believe strongly that Palin ought be judged by the strength of her ideas and her professional record, not by the makeup of her family."

Ditto. Palin looked into banning books when she was a mayor. That's a BIG FAT RED FLAG to me.

Stacey,

"Yes, I know I shouldn't factor those questions into my evaluation"

No, you shouldn't. Would any of these factors matter if Palin were a man? Sheesh.

Posted by: You kids keep off of my lawn! | September 3, 2008 7:15 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Gentle reader | September 3, 2008 7:24 AM | Report abuse

Why is this baby referred to as a Downs Baby rather than a baby who has Downs Syndrome? One would not refer to Elizabeth Edwards as a breast cancer woman, or Michael J. Fox as a Parkinson man. The child is a person and baby first not a genetic condition.

Also let's not forget that the therapy the baby may need will be easier to obtained in high stress D.C. than in Alaska especially the Palin's small hometown.

Posted by: Amy | September 3, 2008 7:35 AM | Report abuse

I rest my case - at least for the present - about Bristol and Levi being subjected to media attention which as a psychotherapist I judge to be emotionally ill advised. Now we know that the National Enquirer was about to break the Bristol pregnancy story on their front page. Members of the Enquirer's Edward's investigation team have gone to Alaska to pursue more leads about Palin.

The non-tabloid press and MSM hates to be scooped by the blogs, let alone by the supermarket tabloids. Between the three venues, we can anticipate that if there is anything else embarrassing to be made public about this family, it will be.

My focus here has been on why Palin's continuing in the race is harmful for her family. We are now learning that despite the Republican spin she has a record of not putting family first. She took the flight when her water broke, went back to work only days after having the baby, and since hasn't spent as much time with the baby as many women would expect her to.

I wrote much more about this in my column here: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/11128?page=1

Posted by: Hal Brown, LICSW, Psychotherapist | September 3, 2008 7:37 AM | Report abuse

went back to work only days after having the baby, and since hasn't spent as much time with the baby as many women would expect her to.

Posted by: Hal Brown, LICSW, Psychotherapist | September 3, 2008 7:37 AM

That's the standard, Hal - Do what other what many other women expect!

Posted by: Funny & scary | September 3, 2008 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, she introduced herself as a hockey mom, but now we get to see her parenting skills and frankly, I'm not impressed. She's got a lot on her plate and so does her husband. They both had better turn their eyes from the prize and back to their kids who need them more than the country does.

What about Elizabeth Dole or other republican women who have had long careers, are FINISHED with raising their families (she had a stepchild) and deserve this honor? There was NO ONE ELSE qualified? I just think McCain didn't want someone who could be seen as his equal with him on the ticket. That's why he went with someone so much younger (and prettier). What a slap in the face to the gazillion qualified GOP women who got passed over for this opportunity.

Sorry - Keep sex education in school, keep church and values at home (the parents are supposed to be teaching BOTH anyway) and keep Ms. Palin in Alaska.

Posted by: Kay | September 3, 2008 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Correction:

That's the standard, Hal - Do what many other women expect!

Posted by: Funny & scary | September 3, 2008 7:42 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe I'm saying this - I agree with Brian. :-)

Judge Gov. Palin by her political record and views, NOT on her family situation. A man in this situation would never be judged because he has a baby with Down's syndrome.

If her pro-life views, support of drilling in ANWR, etc. upset you enough to ignore the top of the ticket, vote for Obama/Biden. If you're thrilled by her opposition to corruption and willingness to take on her own party's corrupt politicians, and it makes you overlook the top of the ticket, vote for McCain/Palin.

DO NOT vote for or against the ticket because she has a son who'll be in Iraq in 8 days; or because she has a teenage daughter who's pregnant; or because her husband has cooked and cared for the kids during her political career. That's just foolish.

Posted by: ArmyBrat | September 3, 2008 7:46 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe I'm saying this - I agree with Brian. :-)

ArmyBrat

Just in from the National Weather Service: BIG WIND WARNING for the remainder of the day.

Posted by: Bored already | September 3, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

I think Palin is a disastrous choice, not because she's a mom, but because she's insanely conservative (and from the looks of things, highly hypocritical). When James Dobson thinks she's A-ok, the rest of America should be having second (and third and fourth) thoughts.

As to her status as a mom, it's irrelevant. I didn't care whether McCain or Obama are good dads, so why should I care whether Palin is a good mom? Her kids do have a father that seems able to take over the bulk of child-rearing responsibilities, so why is it an issue?

Her child rearing choices are relevant only to the extent that they cast light on her judgment and the way that she'd do her job as VP. So far, it seems that she puts job first, in even the most extreme of situations. Isn't that the kind of thing we're looking for in a leader?

Posted by: NewSAHM | September 3, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

I wish I could help my thoughts but I can't. I think that as progressive as we've become, between Juno and The Secret Life of An American Teenager, I don't think that the mom of a pregnant teenager has any place in the White House. This country blasted Lynn Spears when Jamie-Lynn got pregnant. Now they love Sarah and Bristol Palin for "choosing life". I promise you if Malia or Sasha Obama was pregnant John Imus would've probably called her "trifiling pregnant ho" and Barack Obama would've been hailed as all that is wrong with Black America. The fact that Sarah Palin chooses to be a working mom is great. However, I think that her family needs her a great deal. When teeange pregnancy occurs it's most times due to a lack of attention at home. I wish them the best. GO BARACK!!!!

Posted by: Goddess | September 3, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

When teeange pregnancy occurs it's most times due to a lack of attention at home.

Posted by: Goddess | September 3, 2008 8:03 AM

How do you know?

Spelling and Grammar Police for the Goddess! Pronto!

Posted by: Athena | September 3, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

"I promise you if Malia or Sasha Obama was pregnant John Imus would've probably called her "trifiling pregnant ho" and Barack Obama would've been hailed as all that is wrong with Black America."

A "Goddess" should know that:

- it's Don Imus, not John
- it's "trifling" not "trifiling" and
- no one would ever know because Obama's already said that his daughter would have an abortion in this case - he wouldn't want to "punish" her with a child

But other than that...

Posted by: The Sheriff | September 3, 2008 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Goddess,

"I wish I could help my thoughts but I can't."

LOL! I nominate for OP Quote of the Day!

Grammar Sheriff, mount up!

Posted by: Ha, ha, ha | September 3, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

While it is legitimate for us to debate her positions on policies and experience, Gov. Palin's treatment by the press concerning her family life is a reflection that the "glass ceiling" really does exist - at least for conservative women. If the nominee had been Todd Palin, no one would have questioned his ability to have a family and a career. It's a shame that my two daughters have to watch a potential role model be torn apart by this nonsense.

Posted by: Sean | September 3, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

We have to stop projecting our gender battles on this. She's the parent of five children, two of whom are really going to need her in the upcoming months. Her husband can't do this alone and she can't get enough help from her family. I'd be saying this if it were her husband who was picked for VP too.

Brian - we can't have the perfect career and family. Sometimes something has to give. We saw that in Leslie's column. We've got to end this fantasy that we can have it all.

Posted by: Bob | September 3, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Bob

"She's the parent of five children, two of whom are really going to need her in the upcoming months. Her husband can't do this alone and she can't get enough help from her family."

How do you know?

Posted by: Huh? | September 3, 2008 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Sean, Respectfully, there are plenty of great role models out there for your daughter. The better lesson here is that we don't need to treat every career opportunity as a must-do. Life always presents opportunities at any age.

Posted by: Bob | September 3, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Huh?, I don't have a crystal ball. I am a parent of a toddler and I can tell you it was exhausting bringing him into the world with the complications that occurred with my wife's pregnancy and our son's subsequent preemie status. If my job was more demanding at the time, I would have been fired. And I was not VP at the time.

Posted by: Bob | September 3, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

If Gov. Palin had been well-known and had numerous qualifications to be vice-president, I wouldn't be inclined to base my opinion of her on her parenting skills or her track record as governor. But we have been told that she is incredibly well-qualified and she is a strong advocate of family. So of course I'm going to base my opinions of her on this information. It is not a case of her being a woman. It is a case of her being an unknown quantity without experience.

Posted by: jen | September 3, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Her status as a mom WAS irrelevant, until her family life proved that her policy does not work.

Posted by: Mz Fitz | September 3, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

"Yes, I know I shouldn't factor those questions into my evaluation."

Are you NUTS?? She isn't trying for the job of vice-president of the PTA, or the local Starbucks, or even General Motors. The job is vice-president of the United States. One heartbeat away from the presidency. Of COURSE these questions have to be factored into your evaluation. Man or woman, we need someone who is there full-time.

Not every job is appropriate for a woman, or a man, raising a young family with special needs. This job is 70 hours a week full time--not job sharing, not baby under the desk (except, of course, when you haul your props (aka kids) out for photo ops.)

For the same reason, I wouldn't have voted for Edwards when his wife's cancer came back. I really don't think he could have been capable of dealing with that issue and run the country.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Bristol is 17. The father is in the picture. Presumably she will have help from his mother and the rest of her extended family in Alaska. I wouldn't say she is in dire need of having Mommy there to hold her hand through raising a baby. She's probably been caring for her younger siblings her whole life. So while it might be nice if Palin was closer, I wouldn't say it's an absolute necessity. Also, I doubt that Bristol would be a basketcase without her there.
Yes, I think that Palin can handle this and I agree that she should be evaluated more on her political views/stand than her role as a Mom.

Posted by: ducky | September 3, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

For the same reason, I wouldn't have voted for Edwards when his wife's cancer came back. I really don't think he could have been capable of dealing with that issue and run the country.


Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 8:57 AM

Lincoln managed to run the country while dealing with many family issues...

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

So it's OK for a non-political career woman to have a babysitter or housekeeper raise her kids, but not OK for a conservative Republican? HUH???? Who do you think raised all those Kennedy kids -- the ones who are/were into drugs, drinking and fatal car accidents? The Kennedy women can't even cook, for Pete's sake. Then the Carter boys were into smoking dope. Let's take a few jabs at Bill Clinton -- the son of a multi-married bar maid.

So, Sarah's kid is knocked up. At least she admitted it instead of having a secret abortion, like so many Democrats would. I am very pro-choice but I am also for admitting when things aren't perfect. There is no perfect Mom. June Cleaver does not exist.

Stacey, every family deals with raising their kids their own way. A flaming liberal Jew can't sit back and tell everybody else 'my way or the highway.' Get off your high horse and go wipe up the pee from your toilet seat. The one where your kids can't aim straight.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

While it is legitimate for us to debate her positions on policies and experience, Gov. Palin's treatment by the press concerning her family life is a reflection that the "glass ceiling" really does exist - at least for conservative women.

Posted by: Sean | September 3, 2008 8:36 AM

********************

Has the press really done this or has the Republican Party, itself brought it up? Frankly, I don't see the "press" talking about whether or not she should be VP due to her parental status.

Here's where I think the nexus between her policies and her parenting become relevant - she is a staunch supporter of "abstinence only" education in schools. Obviously, that's not working so well - and the proof is in her own family. But will she change her ideas based on this experience? No evidence of that so far. So what we have here is another conservative ideologue cowering behind the "family values" banner and refusing to govern using common sense.


Posted by: Not a fan of Palin | September 3, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm not commenting on the political side.

Here's the mother of 5 side! I have 5 children, aged 5 to 13, and I think that the better, more prestigious job you have, the EASIER it is to have five children.

For example, it would be tough to work at McDonald's and have 5 children b/c there's no day care, the hours are bad, and the pay is low.

But as a lawyer, I have all kinds of perks! When I had small babies, I could bring my baby to the office, have a crib and a babysitter for the times I had to go to meetings.

Plus, I took a specific job that allows me to schedule most of the day myself, and thus be there for school/sporting events, etc. McDonald's wouldn't give me that flexibility.

It would be even better to have the VP or the Pres job b/c I don't think you even have to leave your house to go to work!

Remember - Teddy Roosevelt had 7 children and they ran wild all over the White House. AND one of them was so notorious - that TR said something like, "I can run the country or I can take care of Alice, but I can't do both."

Was he criticized - oh, He was the DAD.

So, I think that having 5 children and having a great job is WAAAAAY easier, even then being a stay-at-home mother (which I have also done) b/c of the convienence.

Posted by: Suzette | September 3, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Let's not make this issue into something it's not.

This is NOT about Palin's ability to be vice president when she is a mother of five, including a disabled child. At least for me, it's not the issue.

However, this IS about a person whose attempts to juggle work and family haven't seemed to work out very well so far. Bristol didn't fare too well with all of this abstinence only, no sex ed, etc. Let's not minimize the fact that Bristol is 17 and pregnant. That she plans to marry the father, as young as she is, is no great shakes. Also, pictures of her drinking alcohol have been making the rounds on the internet. This is a child who needs some undivided attention right now. If her mother is running for vice president, her daughter will not get the attention she needs. If Palin were a man, I'd say the same thing. Some undistracted parenting is needed, now, from BOTH parents.

So, spare me the smoke screen that would make this a gender issue. It's a family issue and a priorities issue.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Is she the 'best' that the Republican Party could offer?! If McCain thinks that just by choosing a 'woman' for the VP slot he can woo the millions of women voters, he has grossly under-estimated our intelligence. Hillary supporters didn't vote for her because she is a 'woman' - but because she is an 'accomplished woman'!!

Posted by: AK | September 3, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Palin = white trash. thats the only reason mccain picked her. he wants the white trash vote.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

I can see the democrats are having a real problem with Sarah Palin. On the leadership side, the democrats are going to have a tough time convincing America that she doesn't have enough experience to chair the VP, and at the same time, they're putting Obama, who seriously lacks leadership experience, up for #1.

So if the democrats can't get her on a professional/qualifications level, go after her character. OK, so she's pro-life. Much to the democrat's view on woman's issues, being a pro-life female in a leadership role isn't a character flaw in and of itself. The fact that she has 5 children of her own, the last being a special needs child, and that her pregnant daughter, plans on going the pro-life route and bring the baby to term, shows that Sarah Palin and family not only talk the talk, they walk the walk. that's a rare trait in a politician.

This girl is a gem. attractive too.

And the more the democrats try to drag her through the mud with their straw man arguments and attempted character assassinations on her family, when she comes out pretty as a picture and smelling like a bed of roses, it will add even more points to her character.

Posted by: dems grabbing at straws | September 3, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I find it fascinating that women are the ones saying Palin shouldn't be VP because of her family situation, whereas men don't seem to be bothered by it as much. (This is a generalization based on my observations the last few days - I realize there isn't a perfect delineation along ender lines.)

As Brian said, if her husband was the one running, this would never be an issue. The double standard is alive and well, and it's coming from women more than men.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

FWIW, I would like to think that I would have the same issues of a father with a special needs infant. We aren't talking about a 5-year-old where they are accustomed to his needs, but an infant. Aren't we also arguing that families (especially mothers) need more than the 12 weeks we get from FMLA?

She held herself up as a "hockey mom." She held up her son as proof of her politics. And then she threw her daughter to the wolves to dispell rumors about herself. Is that parenting? Issue a press release about your minor daughter just so people will leave you alone?

Posted by: RT | September 3, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

A flaming liberal Jew can't sit back and tell everybody else 'my way or the highway.' Get off your high horse and go wipe up the pee from your toilet seat. The one where your kids can't aim straight.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:06 AM

You tell 'em, ArmyBrat!

Posted by: Legacy | September 3, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Is she the 'best' that the Republican Party could offer?! If McCain thinks that just by choosing a 'woman' for the VP slot he can woo the millions of women voters, he has grossly under-estimated our intelligence. Hillary supporters didn't vote for her because she is a 'woman' - but because she is an 'accomplished woman'!!

Posted by: AK | September 3, 2008 9:17 AM


AK, women are supposed to get all misty-eyed and emotional about Palin's family situation and start arguing about gender double-standards. Meanwhile, the real issues -- her experience, past decisions in office, her qualifications for office, her ability (or inability) to demonstrate how her conservative values re sex education are effective -- get lost in the sauce. We women are supposed to be stupid enough to get defensive about whether she can govern with five kids -- to the exclusion of any other issue. Um-hmm. Right.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

I don't give a hoot about Sarah Palin's personal issues - she's just too conservative for most Americans. I think that in choosing her, John McCain did two things: a) show how beholden the Republcans still are to the Christian right, and b) make a desperate attempt to woo female voters.

Any Hillary supporter would be crazy to even consider McCain now! (Agreeing with Colbert I. King's column in last Sat's Post.)

Posted by: just me | September 3, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't recall hearing any discussion about how Barack Obama is planning on taking care of his kids while on the trail and if he gets elected.

This liberal outrage at the notion of a working mother with 5 children is classic 1950's style sexism.

Where are the feminists?

Oh yeah! I forgot!

FEMINISM BELONGS TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AS A PARTISAN IDEOLOGY NOW BECAUSE IT'S HELD HOSTAGE BY ABORTION AS A MONOLITHIC ISSUE AND HAS NO OTHER SUBSTANTIVE MEANINGFUL BASIS

Hypocrites.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

So, I think that having 5 children and having a great job is WAAAAAY easier, even then being a stay-at-home mother (which I have also done) b/c of the convienence.


Posted by: Suzette | September 3, 2008 9:13 AM


The Spelling Police are working overtime today!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, but had this been Chelsea Clinton, the conservatives would have been drawing blood. Saying "where are their morals", blah, blah, blah.

But because it is the daughter of their conservative princess, being an unwed, underage mother is now cool somehow? Wow, isn't it wonderful how this girl is choosing to have her baby and marry the loser father.

Frankly, I find this whole situation so disgusting, I want to be ill. I am appalled that they are now pulling the political stunt of dragging this idiot kid, who as of yesterday stated on his mySpace page he didn't want kids, down to parade him in front of the crowds. AND they are claiming that they were planning to get married BEFORE the pregnancy - sorry, not believing that one AT ALL.

I feel so incredibly sad for this poor girl. Fine, keep your baby, but don't tell me for one SECOND that this was the plan all along. You MEANT to get pregnant at 17? No, I really don't think so...And WHY is getting married to the guy who provided the sperm the best solution? I am sorry, but that is the LAST thing needed, and I am not putting it past these hideous creatures in the GOP to hold a love-in for this couple and maybe even stage a wedding on stage to make their base swoon, the base that would have been repulsed had this happened on the OTHER side.

I think I'm going to be ill NOW...

SAVE BRISTOL!

And this has no bearing on my objections to this moron women to be second in line to be leader of the free world on her policy stands!

Posted by: Family Values Hypocrisy | September 3, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Palin = white trash. thats the only reason mccain picked her. he wants the white trash vote.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:17 AM

AGREED. he did this to attract flyover country and pick up the trailor trash voters.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, theoriginalmomof2 and others who want to critique her for not caring for her children, Suzette is right -- her kids will get better care with her in such a high profile job. She'll be well-staffed, have access to better healthcare than other Americans, and while she'll be working long hours, they'll also be somewhat more flexible. She may or may not be "too" career-oriented, but regardless of her intent, her children will flourish in a pampered environment if the Republicans win. Bristol will be mortified initially but then will be welcome with open arms, be seen as a standard-setter, and have incredible cache. These kids will be fine.

It's the rest of the country I worry about if they win.

Posted by: topicaltimely | September 3, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I think the problem with Sarah is that she's going all out to present herself as a "hockeymom" and a good mother. This leaves us open to look at the way she parents. If she were a man no-one would question whether he were commited enough to stand with a special needs baby and a pregnant teen, but she's not. It looks like she's been selected as running mate because she's a woman... and it's a bad choice. If she were a dedicated full time mother no way would she go for this job with a family of her needs, which is fine. But she can't have it both ways. Either she's a "hockeymom" or a career mom.

Posted by: Emma | September 3, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Her judgment as a mother is totally irrelevant to her ability to be VP. You can be the lousiest mother, father, wife husband in the world, and it doesn't matter one bit. I assess her worthiness for the job based on two things--her willingness to completely leave her children in the lurch should she have to step in and be president (no different than how little Obama is going to be a father to his little girls) and the hypocracy of being a member of a social conservative movement that persecutes women for going to work when their children are little.

Posted by: Rosepetals64 | September 3, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

"Where are the feminists?"

Right here. Read my post and those of other similarly-minded people on this board. Hell, take a gander at Jezebel.com. Feminists all over are asserting that Palin's family situation is irrelevant.

I don't like Palin because she stands against pretty much everything I believe in. There's no way I'd vote for her, regardless of her family situation. How is that in any way an anti-feminist stance?

Posted by: NewSAHM | September 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

And this has no bearing on my objections to this moron women to be second in line to be leader of the free world on her policy stands!

Posted by: Family Values Hypocrisy | September 3, 2008 9:31 AM

Spelling/Grammar Police!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I really see this as two separate issues: and the key one is whether Gov. Palin is ready to serve as VP and be next in line for Prez if something happens to McCain.

Yes, I have some personal opinions about her choices as a mother and they wouldn't be my choices. But I've seen plenty of leaders make personal choices I disagree with and still serve as good leaders (take Bill Clinton for example).

I don't happen to believe that Gov. Palin's choices reflect one way or the other on her leadership abilities. And perhaps her kids are better off being raised primarily by their Dad or by other loving family members. How best to raise the kids is up to the parents. I have to consider whether she can lead the nation.

So far, she impresses me on that score. I disagree with some of her political positions but I like her spunk and am glad she's entered the race.

Posted by: anne | September 3, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

AGREED. he did this to attract flyover country and pick up the trailor trash voters.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:32 AM

Spelling Police!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

There is no double standard here. Gov. Palin brought up the issue of children when she introduced herself as a "typical hockey mom." You can't bring up the topic of children and only expect the media to focus on the positive side. She set the tone.

Posted by: Jack | September 3, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

(the mom-of-five view, not the political view)

Plus, on the special-needs baby side: I think the baby will be with her on the campaign bus and in the VP office. I had a special-needs baby (not Downs, but a congenital defect) and he was actually an EASIER baby to take care of b/c he was less fussy.

Yes, he had more MD appts than the others, but come on! An MD appt doesn't take up your entire day - esp. not if you are the VP! I bet the MDs might even make house calls (remember those days) to the VP.

Really, I think the "she's a mom and should go take better care of her children" argument is just silly. I bet almost every other mom I know has a harder job/work balance than the VP job would be.

Remember, VP will have no commute (or if so, will be driven). Her husband's already been doing the sports-dance class, etc. commute.

Think of all the things that makes YOUR life tough as a working mom and realize that a woman VP prob. won't be doing any of it.


If you want to fault her on the issues, I think that is fine. But I don't think her status as a mother-of-five should be relevant either way.

Posted by: Suzette | September 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

I think she is more than capable of being VP while raising a family of 5 as long as she has her Dh there to help out. I agree with suzette (?) above in that she can hire the best to help her out - she will be able to have a cook (well, she fired the one in AK due to the fact that she said they'll be fine without one), and she can have babysitters/nannies (which, apparently she has never had). I don't think it is up to anyone to figure out how the Palins are going to figure it out - we all figure it out our own way.

What I don't like is the idea that she is some sort of saint because she kept her child when she found out he had down's. I mean, seriously. There are plenty of pro-choice women who have made the choice to keep children they knew had conditions before the child was born. They still didn't have an abortion - because one is pro-choice does not make one pro-abortion.
In addition, I didn't quite understand the idea that her daughter 'decided' to keep the baby. Decided to keep as in not have an abortion? Or not give up for adoption? Does that mean that although Ms. Palin is against abortion, she still thinks it should be legal? Because, no matter what anyone would have you believe, those are two separate issues (that's why I don't understand when people are so put out that Giuliani says he thinks abortion is *wrong* but he still thinks it should be *legal*).

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Topicaltimely, I understand your point. Her perks will help her children. But should Americans vote her and McCain into office based on that assumption? Being elected to the vice presidency will "save" her family. Uh-uh. She and her husband need to get their house in order first before seeking "pampering" from a high-level White House gig.

Wouldn't it be nice if other pregnant teen-age girls, especially those who are impoverished, could also take advantage of such perks and pampering?

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

If she were a "good" mom, she would have turned down McCain's offer. 1) She has a 4-month old who really does need her more than the country. 2) She has a son going off to war - let's hope he makes it back home alive. 3) She has a 17-y.o. pregnant daughter to take care of plus planning the wedding.

By the way, what woman in her 9th month of pregnancy would fly anywhere? Never mind flying back home after her water breaking which is just so stupid and was a risk to both her and her baby's life.

The woman has bad decision-making skills.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

We always do and always will judge our political candidates by who they are as people and not just their political views. If we only jusged people by their views, then robots could run for office. We look at the whole picture and it is only natural. I look at Palin and Obama and recognize they are both parents of young children. I don't expect anything different of Palin because she is a women. We are voting for the people we feel comfortable with as people to be our voice in our government. Why should being a mother be treated any different than being a Roman-Catholic? Most people consider a candidates religion as one factor in who to vote for. The same thing holds tru for parental status. I know that a person who is a parent will understand a lot more of the issues I face then someone who does not have kids.

Posted by: HappyDad | September 3, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Because the Palins don't believe in birth control, she could become pregnant in office. She could be pregnant right now. I'm not saying this is good or bad, it's just a comment.

Posted by: Meg | September 3, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

republicans and their family values. they preach to all of us about how important family values are, and then we find out that that they're geigh (larry craig), big time gamblers (bennett), liars (cheney/gonzales), drunks (bush), corrupt (congressmen abramoff paid off) and adulterers (the louisiana senator and others).

Posted by: hypocrites | September 3, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

And by the way...I disagree with everyone who says she can have the baby in the office with her as the V.P. I work for the Federal government and we are not allowed to have our kids in the office with us while we work. Palin should be treated exactly the same. If she is elected she can't take care of her child and do her job at the same time. If she is allowed to then the rest of us have to be allowed to as well. We can't have a different standard for her just because she would be the VP.

Posted by: HappyDad | September 3, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Palin may be one of the worst choices possible for the nation. The media/blog-o-sphere is preoccupied gender parenting issues. These only have a bearing on her decision-making skills. As an example, to risk both her child and herself by insisting on returning to Alaska to have her child after her waters broke is a huge red flag on this score. The infection risk alone was mind boggling. And the republicans want us to trust someone who will make such bone headed decisions with the care of our country? This leaves out the problematic stands on creationism, book banning, women's reproductive rights, and a host of other stands that make her the darling of the religious right (who are a massive danger to our nation). The phrase 'only a heart beat away from the presidency' seems particularly apt in this case - and that scares me to my core.

Posted by: What a Maroon! | September 3, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

If Sarah can handle all this, bully for her.
I happen to think the country has enough trouble and does not need to add her family problems to the mix.

Posted by: Jackie | September 3, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"Plus, on the special-needs baby side: I think the baby will be with her on the campaign bus and in the VP office. I had a special-needs baby (not Downs, but a congenital defect) and he was actually an EASIER baby to take care of b/c he was less fussy."

But you don't know what her baby is like. Not all special needs infants are less fussy. Mine was very sweet but very active and pretty fussy. At the time, I did not know he had any disabilities. Sometimees, children with Down's Syndrome can have co-morbid conditions, like ADHD or ODD. Frankly, her having a special needs infant does not bother me. But as a parent, I would need to assess whether a job allows me to give as much attention as possible to my kids, or whether it would take away from my kids. I am a government attorney, as opposed to a law firm attorney, because such assessments.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

If Palin one day becomes President I would be worried about our Canadian neighbors. What would happen when millions of Americans start fleeing north? The Canadians haven't even built a wall.

Posted by: Olle | September 3, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"As to her status as a mom, it's irrelevant. I didn't care whether McCain or Obama are good dads, so why should I care whether Palin is a good mom? Her kids do have a father that seems able to take over the bulk of child-rearing responsibilities, so why is it an issue?
Her child rearing choices are relevant only to the extent that they cast light on her judgment and the way that she'd do her job as VP. So far, it seems that she puts job first, in even the most extreme of situations. Isn't that the kind of thing we're looking for in a leader?"

--I couldn't agree more. If I'm looking to vote for someone in order to run the country, I would want one who put their job before their children. Leave the kiddos with a full time nanny.
(And I'm a mother of a 4 year old.)

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

If she were a dedicated full time mother no way would she go for this job with a family of her needs, which is fine. But she can't have it both ways. Either she's a "hockeymom" or a career mom.

Posted by: Emma | September 3, 2008 9:37 AM

Why is it an "either or" situation?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

You can be the lousiest mother, father, wife husband in the world, and it doesn't matter one bit.
Posted by: Rosepetals64 | September 3, 2008 9:37 AM

In fact, some of our greatest leaders have had lousy lives outside of their leadership.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I don't take issue with the mom-of-5 thing. I assume that they have discussed it and have a plan -- just like I assume the same for McCain, Obama, and Biden.

However, I do take issue with her accepting the position in light of her daughter's pregnancy. In my mind, she was either 1) to naive to know what sort of national scrutiny would come with her choice to accept the VP nod; or 2) she was fully aware and too selfish to care.

If it was #1 - that's understandable. Especially for someone who the governor outside the lower 48 and with a population half the size of Fairfax County.

If it was #2 - that's just beyond the pale. To put your own ambitions ahead of protecting your daughter is disgusting.

For me the bottomline isn't either of those issues -- it's the fact that she clearly has had no qualms during her times as a mayor and governor to use her executive power for her own gain and vendetta. I don't think this country needs another person like that in the White House.

Posted by: danielle | September 3, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Happy dad: I completely disagree. What is this with everything thinking everything should be fair? LIFE IS NOT FAIR. If you are the prez or the VP yes, the rules are different - like if you're the CFO or CEO or something. I'm not saying you have carte blanche to do whatever you want - that's what morals are for - i.e., you need to make decisions.

But if you're the best for the job, then yes, the rules are different. What we should have in this country is EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY - NOT equality of outcome. That is what obama preaches (oh, it should all be equal - that's why he wants to take from people and give to others, which is which, only *he* is determining). If that's what you want, then you want socialism/communism. That is not our country.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Did Obama really say that if his daughter was pregnant at 17 that she would have an abortion? Or is that someone putting words in his mouth? Cause the whole idea of PRO-CHOICE is looking at ALL THE CHOICES available, not just one, and picking the best for the situation at hand.

And, by the way, even when it's illegal, plenty of people choose abortion.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

You know, I think we all strive for work-life balance, and in that struggle, we should be responsible to look at the requierments and duties both sides need to be successful. I just can't imagine any parent of a special-needs baby taking on one of the two most agregiously demanding jobs on the planet. Where does that balance fulcrum lie?

We don't ask this of Obama, I think, because his family isn't special-needs, and has also been very open about how the needs of their children are met.

McCain is from another generation...how many 72 year old fathers of grown children were really "get in the dirt" dads to begin with?

Posted by: Jen | September 3, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Research has shown that people who abuse animals abuse people. That's why it's troubling to me that Palin kills animals for fun and supports running dogs to death in the Iditarod.

Most women want animals to be treated humanely. Palin doesn't. There's something terribly wrong with Palin. She has ice water running through her veins. I shudder when I think about the cruel policies she'll support.

Posted by: Margery | September 3, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

To theoriginalmomof2

You're correct. I have no idea what Sarah Palin's baby is like.

But I give her credit for knowing what her baby is like and for having taken that into consideration when she accepted the offer.

Just like you did. I give you that credit. You know how to do what's best for your own children.

Just b/c you don't think she's doing what you would do doesn't mean she's wrong.

And if she were a man, no one would pay much attention to this issue.

Again, attack her politics but get over the fact that you don't think she can/should handle a demanding job and be a mother.

Posted by: Suzette | September 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"Did Obama really say that if his daughter was pregnant at 17 that she would have an abortion? Or is that someone putting words in his mouth?"

--I highly doubt Obama said that. Some dumb poster took would Obama said, and twisted his word out of context. If he had said such a thing, that would cause as media riot. Obama is smarter than that.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Eh. And if you ask me, I doubt the 4 month old boy is Sarah Palin's son anyways. I think it belongs to one of her two teenage daughters. Things just doesn't add up...

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

The female Democrats hate Sarah Palin because she undermines their notions that they have to have abortion in order to have great careers and fulfill their potential.

I'm not anti-abortion, but I'm seeing a lot of hypocrisy in the female Democratic voices attacking Palin.

In France, there are many provisions for supporting women at work to have children, including highly skilled professional women. It's not impossible when you have the right setup, the right mind and the parenting skills.

You don't have to be childless and/or use abortions to have your career, no matter how important your career.

That's something that Democratic women don't understand as they're indoctrinated into the belief that abortion is the crutch that keeps them free from subjucation.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

>>Margery wrote: "Research has shown that people who abuse animals abuse people. That's why it's troubling to me that Palin kills animals for fun and supports running dogs to death in the Iditarod."

You are totally clueless about how real people survive and live.

I suppose you have the belief that before the rise of white styrofoam-packaged meat in supermarket refrigerators, people who raised and butchered their own meat were bloodthirsty, murderous savages.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

The Republicans are desperately trying to spin this "Dan Quayle part 2" selection into a story about a mom of 5 kids.

Forget the children. They are not an issue.

Look at all the legitimate reasons that Sarah Palin ranks right up there with Dan Quayle, Eagleton, and Dan Quayle as a hasty, disastrous pick for VP. She could be childless, or a man, or anyone else, and all of these reasons would disqualify her. It has nothing to do with her being a mother or with her daughter's situation. Do I have to list them again here? (Not qualified to be commander in chief (McCain is now assuming he cannot die), extreme right views including creationism and no belief in manmade climate change, under ethics investigation for abuse of power...for starters).

This was an impulsive, snappish, irresponsible choice by McCain that shows what kind of (really, really bad) president he would be.

His communications staff cannot defend Sarah Palin on the merits so they are constructing a "straw man" (meaning, false) argument that people are primarily opposed to this poorly chosen candidate because she's a mom. It looks to me like you two fell for this spin hook, line, and sinker. She could have 20 kids for all I care. The family isn't the issue. The candidate is.

Posted by: Fairfax Voter | September 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

I confess I've spent entirely too much time thinking about this recently -- but as a conservative, Evangelical woman who works with fundies, I'm probably getting more exposure to this issue than the rest of you.

Palin set herself up to be judged on her behavior because of the double whammy of being "christian" and being female. here's how:
1. Many religious groups, including the Catholic church, where she was raised, found their social policies on a theological doctrine called the "seamless garment." this says in short that your positions should be consistent -- if you're in favor of outlawing abortion, you cannot also be in favor of the death penalty. You're either for life, or against it. there's a papal encyclical somewhere putting forth this view. In Evangelical circles, the common phraseology has to do with "surrendering your life to christ." the whole notion of values voters is based on the notion of a Christian amerida, where God has his hand on america. If He has made it possible for you to take office in order to serve Him, it is because you have submitted your life to serving His will -- your personal and your professional life. this is why a preacher can be fired for getting divorced, having an affair, etc. because in order to do your JOB, you have to have your house in order. In most Evangelical circles, your personal life is EXTREMELY relevant to how qualified you are to hold office. it's about integrity.

2. The old feminist doctrine has always told us that 'the personal is political.' In short, discrimination at home has repercussions in the work place, a feminist household is a social good that benefits the whole community, and people who are truly feminist treat women as equals in every area -- both at work and at home.

By simultaneously embracing the qualities of being christian and female and suggesting that as a the basis for voting for her (rather than her resume), she ASKED for this kind of scrutiny. she needs to get her house in order. It is relevant.

Posted by: My Thoughts | September 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

That's something that Democratic women don't understand as they're indoctrinated into the belief that abortion is the crutch that keeps them free from subjucation.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:25 AM

How do you know what Democratic women do or do not understand?

Free from WHAT??

Posted by: Wha? | September 3, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

>>Margery wrote: "Research has shown that people who abuse animals abuse people. That's why it's troubling to me that Palin kills animals for fun and supports running dogs to death in the Iditarod."

This is a good example of the insipid, vapid and weak-stomach women that the Democratic party ideal, with its patronizing, condescending treatment of strong and self-deterministic women, fosters.

From the notion that you can't have a high-performance career unless you're virtually childless, so that abortion rights set you free to the notion that a woman who hunts and is a rising Republican star is some kind of twisted savage, the vapid Democratic women have a shallow and simpering notion of feminism.

They're also blazing hypocrites and tools of their partisan masters.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

You know, I think we all strive for work-life balance, and in that struggle, we should be responsible to look at the requierments and duties both sides need to be successful

Jen

Spelling Police!!!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Again, attack her politics but get over the fact that you don't think she can/should handle a demanding job and be a mother.


Posted by: Suzette | September 3, 2008 10:19 AM

That's not my issue. Her having kids, one of them special needs, doesn't bother me. The situation with her daughter, how that jibes with her ideology, and her inability to realize that the priorities need to shift for her -- that bothers me. This is not a "women's" issue. It's a parenting issue, a family issue. And if she were a man, I'd be saying the same thing. It's entirely possible that if she weren't a man, she wouldn't have accepted the offer of the candidacy. Not because of gender, but because of the fallout and the distraction. There is a time and place for everything.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

It's entirely possible that if she weren't a man, she wouldn't have accepted the offer of the candidacy.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 10:38 AM

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

It's entirely possible that if she weren't a man, she wouldn't have accepted the offer of the candidacy.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 10:38 AM

She's not a man... What is your point?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Who gives a damn on whether she is a good mother or can run a household? I'd rather have Palin be a great VP first and foremost, if I were to hire her to aid the president in running the country.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

It's entirely possible that if she weren't a man, she wouldn't have accepted the offer of the candidacy.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 10:38 AM

She's not a man... What is your point?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 10:42 AM


My point is very simple. I'm not judging her decisions and ability based on her gender. Again, it is a parenting issue, not a gender issue. Except to those who are trying to blow smoke.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/intrusive-personal-questions-from-palin.html

Monday, September 01, 2008

"Intrusive Personal Questions" from the Palin Vetting Questionnaire

"Mr. McCain’s advisers said repeatedly on Monday that Ms. Palin was 'thoroughly vetted'"- The New York Times

Palin "responded to a 70-question form that included 'intrusive personal questions' a senior campaign aide said today."- The Washington Post


"Intrusive Personal Questions" from the Palin Vetting Questionnaire:

1) Did we forget anything?

2) Secession from your own country is

a) Patriotic
b) A qualification to be the potential leader of that country
c) Maverick-y!
d) None of the above

3) John McCain has said that he has followed your record for "many, many years." Divide those "many" years by the number of years of your actual record. The result is

a) Three days
b) Two years as mayor of a town of 9000, and 20 months at the helm of the vaunted Alaska National Guard
c) 0: experience, as we know, is not relevant to one's record
d) Czechoslovakia

4) Moose Burger : Abstinence as Moose Hunting :

a) Brother-in-law
b) 50 state flag
c) Bridge to Nowhere (after it was made impossible)
d) All of the above

5) Did we forget anything?

6) Three Vice Presidential candidates are moving from three equidistant fixed points towards a podium. One, in his slightly glazed stare and awkwardly quasi-combative speech bears a faint resemblance to Dan Quayle; the next can only assist the ticket as we near closer to Rapture; the third seems to have stumbled out of one of Christopher Buckley's sharper efforts. Which one arrives at the podium first?

7) "Nothing that has come out did not come out in the vet." This sentence actually means:

a) Everything has come out and everything has been vetted
b) Everything that was vetted has come out
c) Everything that has come out was vetted
d) The vet came out and vetted the vets vetter than anything has ever been vetted. Really.

8) You are a right-wing, red-state conservative. During the Clinton Administration, you believed that President Clinton's behavior with Monica Lewinsky disqualified him from the Presidency on moral grounds; you fervently raised the terms "Lincoln Bedroom" and "Johnny Chung" to invoke notions of utter corruption, and regarded the "Travelgate" firings as an abuse of power. In the face of the recent revelations regarding Palin's directorship of Ted Stevens' 527, support of the Bridge to Nowhere, "Troopergate" imbroglio, and illegitimate pregnancy of her 16-year old daughter, you:

a) Blame George Soros
b) Talk about Bill Clinton instead of Palin
c) Hold your hands over your ears and loudly shout "La la la"
d) Try to change the subject

9) "Foreign policy experience" includes:

a) Being near another large nation
b) Seceding from your own country and then taking up residence in the new nation
c) Being close to "Nowhere" in your support for the Bridge to Nowhere, which is different than being "Somewhere"
d) Blame George Soros

10) If you were seeking to choose as your running mate someone who would please Evangelical Conservatives with very traditional values, who would be without taint of corruption or misuse of government power, and someone who, in line with your campaign's own slogan, would put "Country First", after thorough vetting and "intrusive personal questions", you would choose someone who:

a) Supported the Bridge to Nowhere
b) Supported the secession of Alaska from the U.S. (Slogan: "Alaska First!")
c) Was the subject of a state ethics investigation due to allegations that she had tried to have her brother-in-law fired and that she fired the state public safety commissioner due to his unwillingness to fire the brother-in-law
d) Would suffer from allegations that her 16 year old child had become pregnant illegitimately, despite her fervent support for abstinence only sex education
e) None of the above

Cite
Head of State:
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/intrusive-personal-questions-from-palin.html

Posted by: Robert Hewson | September 3, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

They're also blazing hypocrites and tools of their partisan masters.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:31 AM

That NEVER happens in the Republican party...

Posted by: Oh- brother | September 3, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

>>theoriginalmomof2 wrote: "The situation with her daughter, how that jibes with her ideology, and her inability to realize that the priorities need to shift for her -- that bothers me."

Democratic parents of 17 year olds are faced with their kids having teenaged sex, STD's and pregnancy, too. If you don't think so you're a deludedmomof2.

Politicizing the fact that this woman's 17-year old had sex is twisted and partisan.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

She is the embodiment of the women's movement. The democrats just hate the idea that she does not embrace the far left politics of the old guard feminists. Middle america will love her. The democrats are scaredc sh!tless. A mom, a likeable person. a person who took on corruption and won. The embodiment of the common person making it to the top.

Posted by: We love Sarah | September 3, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

who is going to be secretary of state? Jamie Lynn? Maybe Britney wil finally get an invite to the White House. Maybe the guys from Deadliest Catch will head the Dept. of Game and Fisheries.

How much time has Palin spent in the lower 48? Alaska, while part of the US, is VERY different than down here. Just curious to get a sense of how well she understands the rest of the US?

Finally, am I the only one who sees the irony in being Pro-life AND Pro-gun?

Posted by: moxiemom | September 3, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

The question of whether a citizen of the US (male or female) is ready to be President is the question. That is what VP is - the person ready to take over, if the POTUS is unable! If experience is key - then what does a Governor of a state with a 70% white population know about working with a nearly minority white nation? What does a person (male or female) used to leading a town of 7,000 know about "serving" 300,000,000+ as President? What does a person facing global warming as a leader of the last SUPER POWER who still thinks it isn't man made do to lead the majority of the world who already knows what the issue is and needs leadership to address it? There is no time for schooling on the topic at this point.

The idea that this citizen still has links to a group who advocates for Alaska to cede from the US is a pretty looming issue. And that this selection seemed triggered by the recoil (no pun intended) of Hillary not getting the nod versus what is best for the country seems pretty counter intuitive for a man who charged the Democrat was more interested in winning the election than leading the country.

Posted by: Retired AF Vet | September 3, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Robert Hewson | September 3, 2008 10:51 AM

Just goes to show what lows the koolaid drinkers will stoop to win. Don't let the facts get in your way, we know to support Obama the fraud you have to be very comfortable with fairytales and lies

Posted by: Sure buddy | September 3, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

>>Oh- brother wrote: "That NEVER happens in the Republican party..."

The feminists have become nothing more than partisan tools, used for political purposes when convenient, who are patronized with lip service when necessary. Organizations like NOW have deteriorated into being just pointless Democratic party appendages and affectations.

Earlier this primary season, they said they didn't have to vote for the more-qualified woman (Clinton) who was being pushed aside for a glib, under-qualified man, because, they claimed, they're so free they don't have to push for female presidential candidates. So they apparently don't stand for female advancement, even when they are faced with the female being more qualified and the male being un-qualified.

They also had no position when blatant sexism was used to parody, disparage and beat down the campaign of the woman.

Now, they have no voice when people proclaim that an active mother can't be VP and when the same kind of torrid, hypocritical sexism is heaped on a woman executive from Alaska before she even makes her debut speech and all her facts are out and researched.

What can be more pointless than having no presence and no voice in a year of historic female candidacies and blatant sexism on the national stage rearing its head in all the old flaming stereotypes?

Quite frankly, those who call themselves feminists at this point are totally voiceless and politically impotent. They are bankrupt and nothing more than tools and affectations of partisans. They have become kept women, patronized, petted and pointless.

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Retired AF Vet | September 3, 2008 10:57 AM

first off nitwit, she is governer of a large state with a multi billion dollar budget. She has an 80 percent approval rating, she is the only one with executive experience. She is running for VP. The Obama fraud is a freshman senator with no experience running for PRESIDENT. You obviously are a racist since you think that only people with the same skin color can govern. Crawl back under your liberal rock you misognist racist.

Posted by: more leftist nonsense | September 3, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The Republican Convention slogan is Country First.

How about, Family First?

Posted by: hmmm | September 3, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Middle america will love her.

Posted by: We love Sarah | September 3, 2008 10:54 AM

of course they'll love her. she's white trash! white trash ALWAYS supports other white trash.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

There is no proof that global warming has anything to do with what we are doing (i.e., 'man made').

IF the climate is changing - well, that's normal. Yes, most of the things we should be doing anyway (using fewer resources, planning more, wasting less, etc). BUT why is ONLY the US being asked to change? Why not India? China? Russia?
Hmmm. And when things don't jive with your theory, you CHANGE THE THEORY? And now it's called Climate Change?

Hmmm. The founder of the weather channel says these theories are bunk.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"Quite frankly, those who call themselves feminists at this point are totally voiceless and politically impotent. They are bankrupt and nothing more than tools and affectations of partisans. They have become kept women, patronized, petted and pointless. "


Very well put, hillary gets 18 million votes and is not even vetted for VP. Just petted on the head and told to go sit in the corner. Palin will be the most powerful woman in America thanks to John McCain.

Posted by: WELL SAID | September 3, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Was Truman qualified? Was LBJ qualified? was George Bush qualified? Was Gerald Ford qualified? We could say no to all of these. Thankfully the role of the President of the United States has checks and balances, term limits, and constant public scrutiny.

Does anybody think Palin will decline the nomination like McGovern's original choice for VP?

Posted by: Fo3 | September 3, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't belonging to the Alaska Independence Party constitute TREASON?

Secession from the Union? Didn't we fight the bloodiest war in US history over that?

When people on the left want to challenge the Union, the right calls them traitors, and worse. When a right-winger does it, the Republicans paint her as a patriot. They can't even be consistent.

Posted by: no traitors for me | September 3, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Finally, am I the only one who sees the irony in being Pro-life AND Pro-gun?

Posted by: moxiemom | September 3, 2008 10:57 AM

Yes, you are. Please stop asking the same question.

Posted by: Get a life | September 3, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

"Middle america will love her.

Posted by: We love Sarah | September 3, 2008 10:54 AM

of course they'll love her. she's white trash! white trash ALWAYS supports other white trash."


yep that's what the obama supporters think of the average voter. Just white trash huh? Thanks, very enlightening. But we already knew that democrats despise real people. That's why you lose over and over and over again.

Posted by: We love Sarah | September 3, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

There is no proof that global warming has anything to do with what we are doing (i.e., 'man made').

There's still no "proof" that tobacco smoking causes cancer, either. But the statistical correlations are overwhelming. Ditto for global warming and manmade causes.

Posted by: if you've got 'em, smoke 'em | September 3, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: no traitors for me | September 3, 2008 11:09 AM

Then I guess you hate Obama abnd his 20! years of God damn america pastor and his america hating church, which of course he never quit until it got on the front page. The democrat party is home to every stripe of traitors.

Posted by: really? | September 3, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know how to write???

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Then I guess you hate Obama abnd his 20! years of God damn america pastor and his america hating church, which of course he never quit until it got on the front page. The democrat party is home to every stripe of traitors.

Posted by: really? | September 3, 2008 11:13 AM

Spelling & Grammar Police!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: more leftist nonsense

'first off nitwit, she is governer of a large state with a multi billion dollar budget. She has an 80 percent approval rating, she is the only one with executive experience."

You are a nitwit (plus a whole lot of other emotionally charged words). My COUNTY has more people than all of Alaska, and a multi billion dollar budget ($2.6 Billion). Does that make our county executive qualified to be VP? No way in H3LL! At least he has to deal with a very culturally and racially diverse population, and deal with all of the problems that come with a highly urbanized area. No, Palin's stands on the issues disqualify her to be the potential POTUS.

Posted by: What a Maroon! | September 3, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

I don't like Palin because of the issues, not because of her gender or her parental status. She is way too conservative for my taste. I would not like her if she were a man. The fact that she is a woman does not sway me to vote for her.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

atlmom | September 3, 2008 11:07 AM - wrote:

here is no proof that global warming has anything to do with what we are doing (i.e., 'man made').

IF the climate is changing - well, that's normal. Yes, most of the things we should be doing anyway (using fewer resources, planning more, wasting less, etc). BUT why is ONLY the US being asked to change? Why not India? China? Russia?
Hmmm. And when things don't jive with your theory, you CHANGE THE THEORY? And now it's called Climate Change?

Hmmm. The founder of the weather channel says these theories are bunk.
---------------------------------------

Let me speak slowly - cause it seems that may be the only way you can process it -

The US consumes nearly 3.5 times more oil than China. The US consumes nearly 10 times more oil than India, and all the rest of the developing nations. Why should we throttle back out use - because we use (per person) more than anyone else.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

As to the founder of the weather channel decrying global warming as bunk - I hope he and his family and you can tread water - a very long time!

Posted by: Retired AF Vet | September 3, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Get a Life - thanks for the advice, I will take it under advisement! BTW - you are too cool! When you come up with something interesting or funny to say let me know and I will take a break from my newly aquired life to listen.

Posted by: Moxiemom | September 3, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

No, smoking doesn't *cause* cancer, or my 98 year old grandmother would have cancer. It is certainly a risk factor, given other risk factors (i.e., heredity, lifestyle, etc).

But there is no scientific proof of anything to do with the fallacy of so called global warming. We have a lot of hurricanes, so people scream: oh, no it's global warming. If we don't have so many, like last year, people scream: oh, no it's global warming. Who are the people screaming loudest? Well, none of them have any type of science degrees. Or background.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Let me speak slowly - cause it seems that may be the only way you can process it -

The US consumes nearly 3.5 times more oil than China. The US consumes nearly 10 times more oil than India, and all the rest of the developing nations. Why should we throttle back out use - because we use (per person) more than anyone else."

You must be high. American should have our economy thrown into the toilet and china and india get to do whatever the hell they want. You need meds and soft room to lie down in. Was that said slowly enough for your garbled brain to grasp?

Posted by: get a life | September 3, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't like Palin because of the issues, not because of her gender or her parental status. She is way too conservative for my taste. I would not like her if she were a man. The fact that she is a woman does not sway me to vote for her.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 11:20 AM

Posted by: the voice of reason | September 3, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"I don't like Palin because of the issues, not because of her gender or her parental status. She is way too conservative for my taste. I would not like her if she were a man. The fact that she is a woman does not sway me to vote for her."

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 11:20 AM

I agree. That's part of my point.

"Politicizing the fact that this woman's 17-year old had sex is twisted and partisan."

Posted by: AsperGirl | September 3, 2008 10:53 AM

Ah! Then tell the GOP to stop doing it. Who brought it up in the first place?

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

My COUNTY has more people than all of Alaska, and a multi billion dollar budget ($2.6 Billion). Does that make our county executive qualified to be VP? No way in H3LL! At least he has to deal with a very culturally and racially diverse population, and deal with all of the problems that come with a highly urbanized area. No, Palin's stands on the issues disqualify her to be the potential POTUS"

Obama has never been an executive, he has barely served three years as afreshman senator. He has never run anything, he has a non existent record in the senate. Palin runs a large budget, runs the state government, has dealt with energy issues firsthand. She is running for number 2, Obama is a media fraud and if the media spent 1/10 th of the energy ivestigating him instead of Palin's 17 year old daughter, the Obama fraud would hae been laughed out of the country.

Posted by: What a rube you are | September 3, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Hmmm. I'm not attacking anybody, I'm attacking an idea...and saying I disagree with it. I did not call anyone names or make big sweeping generalizations to make others fearful.
You seem only intent on having our economy 'go down the toilet.' We in this country have tons of environmental boundaries, whereas china and india certainly do not. We keep strengthening our standards but the other country's energy usage is increasing exponentially each year. But you are only intent on attacking the US? Hmmm.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Atlmom @ 10:11; Anonymous @ 10:21 and all those others who don't believe Obama really said he wouldn't want his daughters "punished with a baby", see the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbZJYWjkAPo

It's a 1 minute 6 second video, from CNN, from a campaign stop in Johnstown, PA. The remark in question comes at the 50 second mark.

Now, you can believe that this video is completely fraudulent, or you can acknowledge that he really said it.

Posted by: The Sheriff | September 3, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin seems primed to become a truly old-fashioned Vice President.

You remember the kind that didn't have much to do except break the occasional tie in the Senate.

She would have plenty of time to take care of her family in the VP mansion at the Naval Observatory.

McCain is obviously banking on his own vitality and his existing circle of advisors.

Posted by: DC ex-pat | September 3, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

We keep strengthening our standards but the other country's energy usage is increasing exponentially each year. But you are only intent on attacking the US? Hmmm.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 11:30 AM


That's the problem with these people. We can kill ourselves to do something and they are content to let others not lift a finger. Thank God Bush did not agree to kyoto and let the communists off scot free.

Posted by: yep | September 3, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Whoa horses! I am staying out of this one today!

Yesterday, I think that Oh, brother was trying to say caviar emptor meaning Oh, brother wanted to buy some caviar.

Posted by: Grammar Sheriff | September 3, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Keep underestimating Palin. That's what the good old boy network in alaska did and she put her foot up their butt.

Posted by: We love Sarah | September 3, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Clearly the double-standard still exists.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

What double standard? I wouldn't vote for a man with Palin's views either.

Posted by: single consistent standard | September 3, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

To The Sheriff: I was just asking IF he had actually said that. Please read my post. I guess everyone forgets that perhaps the actual pregnant girl/woman might have a say.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Clearly the double-standard still exists.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:43 AM


Absolutely, no man would have to endure this crap.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Palin's pregnant 17-year old daughter is a non-issue to me. These things happen, and it's not necessarily a reflection of the parents. God knows I wouldn't want my parents held accountable for all the decisions I made as a minor.

I admit that I question whether she can -- and why she'd want to -- do the job of the VP while raising five children, especially when one of them has special needs. It is not an easy thing for me to admit that I seem to be prejudiced against working women. I'm not sure why this is, but that's for me to work out. On some level I understand the scrutiny she's coming under, and on another level, it pisses me off royally.

In any case, beyond the discussions between me, myself, and I about what a hypocrite I appear to have become, it matters not a jot that the Republican candidate has selected a woman for VP, because I have zero intention of voting for them.

Posted by: WorkingMomX | September 3, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Absolutely, no man would have to endure this crap.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 11:54 AM

You mean like Bill Clinton? Guess impeachment isn't crap?

Posted by: hmmm | September 3, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I admit that I question whether she can -- and why she'd want to -- do the job of the VP while raising five children, especially when one of them has special needs.

Likewise I'd question any MALE candidate who wanted to be VP under the same circumstances.

Posted by: hmmm | September 3, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

To be perfectly honest, I wonder why anyone would want to hold high political office, like the POTUS. Is the power really worth the crap you have to go through? I can't think of anything less appealing or more draining. Yuck.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Okay, he said 'punished with a baby' in the context of: we should give our kids information about contraception so that they wouldn't get pregnant in the first place. I can see why that could be construed (I guess) as forcing his kids to have an abortion, but he wasn't even talking about abortion, he was talking about contraception.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin doesn't even believe in contraception.

Posted by: to atlmom | September 3, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"should Palin have knowingly put her daughter through the media spotlight "

Already, everyone who knew Bristol, knew she was pregnant. What difference does it make if people she doesn't know "find out" she is pregnant?

Posted by: Abq | September 3, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

What difference does it make if people she doesn't know "find out" she is pregnant?

The difference it makes is that Bristol's mother supports abstinence-only sex education and wants to force it on the rest of the country.

Posted by: to Abq | September 3, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Did Alaska run out of birth control?

Posted by: What's the deal? | September 3, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

wow, I have just completely lost my faith in the future of this country if these are some of my fellow citizens.

some of the disturbing and hypocritical views being flung around here make me want to bang my head against a wall.

do you people actually think for yourself or just take the talking points from your crazy right wing groups and adopt it as your own views?

Posted by: A sad American | September 3, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Did Alaska run out of birth control?

Posted by: What's the deal? | September 3, 2008 12:21 PM

No, Sarah doesn't believe in it.

Posted by: hmmm | September 3, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Did Alaska run out of birth control?

Posted by: What's the deal? | September 3, 2008 12:21 PM

No, Sarah doesn't believe in it.

Posted by: hmmm | September 3, 2008 12:28 PM

What about Sarah's preggers daughter and the boyfriend? Do they know about birth control?

Posted by: What's the deal? | September 3, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

What about Sarah's preggers daughter and the boyfriend? Do they know about birth control?

Posted by: What's the deal? | September 3, 2008 12:36 PM

Obviously not. And Sarah doesn't want US to know about contraception either.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin's views on birth control are like Father of 4's: Pull and pray.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

do you people actually think for yourself or just take the talking points from your crazy right wing groups and adopt it as your own views?

Posted by: A sad American | September 3, 2008 12:27 PM
OR...

do you people actually think for yourself or just take the talking points from your crazy LEFT wing groups and adopt it as your own views?

Posted by: Glad for my country | September 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

What about Sarah's preggers daughter and the boyfriend? Do they know about birth control?

Posted by: What's the deal? | September 3, 2008 12:36 PM

Obviously not. And Sarah doesn't want US to know about contraception either.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:38 PM

How do you know?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

How do you know?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:43 PM

Palin favors abstinence-only sex ed.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Palin favors abstinence-only sex ed.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:46 PM

Where nincompoops like duh! want your 9 year old learning how to pull a condom over a banana and the nurse dispensing birth control without parental consent or notification. Liberals are such idiots.

Posted by: more of the same leftist drivel | September 3, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

There is something about Palin's face that reminds me of the "Runaway Bride"....

Posted by: She's on somethng | September 3, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

How do you know?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:43 PM

Palin favors abstinence-only sex ed.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:46 PM

And the boyfriend's parents?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

There is something about Palin's face that reminds me of the "Runaway Bride"....

Posted by: She's on somethng | September 3, 2008 12:49 PM

There is something about Biden that reminds me of those awful hairclub for men commercials.......

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Nobody who calls herself a "hockey Mom" can ever be taken seriously in the professional world. Get a grip and keep professional and private life separate. The rest of us professional women are required to do so on a daily basis. I don't really care about her parenting choices or anything else in her personal life, but he is NOT qualified to be VP. Period. End of story. Her selection is insulting to women--McCain has reverted to tokenism instead of choosing a qualified running mate, making him look more pathetic than he looked to begin with.

Posted by: Dorami | September 3, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Liberals are such idiots.

Posted by: more of the same leftist drivel | September 3, 2008 12:48 PM

Palin is the one with the knocked-up teenage daughter.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Where nincompoops like duh! want your 9 year old learning how to pull a condom over a banana and the nurse dispensing birth control without parental consent or notification. Liberals are such idiots.

Posted by: more of the same leftist drivel | September 3, 2008 12:48 PM

At least liberals' underaged children have options besides abstinence for avoiding unwanted pregnancy.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

atlmom, he was talking about why he was opposed to abstinence-only education. He said that yes, he would teach his daughters about abstinence, and that sex isn't something that's casual, to be taken lightly. Then he said he'd also teach them about contraception.

Then he said that if one them made a mistake and became pregnant, he wouldn't want her to be punished with a baby. I don't know any way to interpret that other than "if she made a mistake and became pregnant she'd have an abortion." If there is another way to interpret it, please enlighten us.

(He wouldn't want her to be punished with an STD, either; that comes a couple seconds later in the clip.)

Posted by: The Sheriff | September 3, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

At least liberals' underaged children have options besides abstinence for avoiding unwanted pregnancy.

And before anyone asks, studies report no greater sexual activity among kids who know about birth control.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Just watched the Obama video -- it had nothing at all to do with abortion. He said he's raising his daughters to have morals and values, but that education about contraception is also important. The "mistake" to which he refers is clearly having premarital sex at all, not getting pregnant. If they did make the mistake of having sex, he says, he wants them to know about (and presumably use) contraception so they don't end up "punished" with a baby or an STD.

Anyone seeing even any reference to abortion in that speech is willfully twisting Obama's words.

And Aspermom, you seem to be having a lovely time spouting venom at nameless and faceless Democrats and Feminists, but I notice that you have nothing at all to say to the actual Democrats and feminists who've been posting here all day. Most of us have stated clearly that we don't care what kind of parent Palin is; just that we have no intention of voting for her because we don't like her politics. Surely it isn't your belief that feminism means voting for any woman over any man, regardless of her qualifications or ideological stances?

Posted by: NewSAHM | September 3, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Then he said that if one them made a mistake and became pregnant, he wouldn't want her to be punished with a baby. I don't know any way to interpret that other than "if she made a mistake and became pregnant she'd have an abortion." If there is another way to interpret it, please enlighten us.

Posted by: The Sheriff | September 3, 2008 12:56 PM

And if his daughter didn't want an abortion, what would Obama do?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy the way 'Have a nice day' cures chronic depression.

However, it doesn't really matter to her daughter who knows she is pregnant. It's already a fact and anyone Bristol cared about already knew.

Posted by: Abq | September 3, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Sarcasm alert: Don't you know that facts don't matter any more? Perceptions are the new truth, more real than reality itself.

Posted by: to NewSAHM | September 3, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"Nobody who calls herself a "hockey Mom" can ever be taken seriously in the professional world. Get a grip and keep professional and private life separate. The rest of us professional women are required to do so on a daily basis"

Nonsense!! You must be one of those women who cuts her hair short and wears androgynous clothing because you are so insecure about your own abilities.She is a GOVERNOR and apparently taken very seriously by the people she has defeated and the oil companie CEO's she spars with.

Posted by: HA!!!!!!!! | September 3, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I watched the clip on YouTube with Obama's view on contraceptives. He does NOT say that he would want his daughter to have an abortion should she fall pregnant while young. His statement simply implies that he would want his daughter to be informed about contraceptives and the 3 choices a female have should she fall pregnant.

Pro choice does not equal pro abortion.

Again, idiot poster twisting the context of his speech.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"Palin favors abstinence-only sex ed."

Good for her. It's the responsibility of the parents to teach their kids sexual ethics as they see fit, not the public schools, and I would love to make a deal with them. If they don't tell my kids that it's possible to have sex and avoid the consequences by using a condom, I won't tell their kids they won't get pregnant if they don't have sex.

If you want to teach your kids all about contraception, fine, go ahead, please do, but don't force it on my kids.

Posted by: I'm voting for Palin | September 3, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Brian and Army Brat, most of the rest of the posts today are trash. This is not that complicated folks, judge her on her policies and experience.

Shame on you Stacey G for your outright sexist opinion. Same goes for you Moxiemom, you sound ignorant and silly. You 2 are the next Sally Quinn and Campbell Brown, and that is not a compliment.

Posted by: Siggy | September 3, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"And if his daughter didn't want an abortion, what would Obama do?"

She would be "punished" with a child and that might derail the only appropriate course for a democratic female...Being a lawyer, because according to the misogynist democrats anything less is demeaning.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Those who support Palin, what do you make of her decision to travel by plane AFTER HER WATER HAS BROKE!

What doctor would really be OK with that? Advanced maternal age, the baby is already a known to have problems (baby's with Down's syndrom often have heart defects, etc.), water has broken and she is in labor-- and she is OK to go fly back to ALaska? What, is Texas really that much of a hell-hole for pre-natal care? Shockingly inconsiderate to her unborn child, to my eyes.

Posted by: smith | September 3, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"Surely it isn't your belief that feminism means voting for any woman over any man, regardless of her qualifications or ideological stances? "


why the blacks do it all the time. Obama gets the black vote despite the fact that few of them could tell you anything about him. Identity politics is the post and parcel of the democratic party. Gays,minorities,unions,feminists,leftists,enviromentalists etc.

Posted by: yes that's it | September 3, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"I watched the clip on YouTube with Obama's view on contraceptives. He does NOT say that he would want his daughter to have an abortion should she fall pregnant
while young. His statement simply implies that he would want his daughter to be informed about contraceptives and the 3 choices a female have should she
fall pregnant."


Why can't he inform his own daughter about his choices. What is he, a ballless twit?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

What's the source for the statement that Palin does not believe in birth control? Believing that public schools sould limit their statements about sex education to abstinence-only doesn't tell us a thing about her personal beliefs about birth control.

p.s. any blog that includes comments from AsperGirl is guaranteed to be devoid of facts and civility.

Posted by: Christine | September 3, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

"For the same reason, I wouldn't have voted for Edwards when his wife's cancer came back. I really don't think he could have been capable of dealing with that issue and run the country."


You are right he was too busy diddling a woman on the side. Funny how the liberal press barely even mentionsn that. Just more MSM liberal bias.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

No, he did not make a comment about abortion (wow, I can't believe I am defending him).

In any event, in NY - well, at least 20 years ago - they had sex ed - AND NOT FOR NINE YEAR OLDS. For teenagers. We did not go out and try what we learned, it was good to have the information, though. Just cause you don't teach people things doesn't mean that don't act on things. Kids still know about sex, and NO the parents don't do a good job - so saying *I* will teach *MY* kids is doing a disservice to society. We know the outcome of that is teen pregnancy, and higher poverty rates...

AND NO WHERE does it say that after Ms. Palin's water broke was she in labor. I believe she was not - and she spoke with her doctor. Either you believe in privacy between a woman and her doctor, or you do not.

PS - pregnant twice, water broke, TWICE, where I then had to be INDUCED because I was NOT in labor.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

edwards affair isn't relievant since he isn't on the ticket. It's merely idle gossip, though certainly and needlessly painful to elizabeth Edwards.

Can anyone respond to the flying from Tx to Alaska after her water broke? I thought that was illegal! I actually had a nightmare that I tried to board a plane after my water broke and the attendant said that I couldn't board. I considered the dream a wake up call for me to get my priorities in line and focus more on my family. But I guess Palin would say woman have a right to give birth on a plane if that's what they want to do? Now THAT, "my friends", is radical feminism!

Posted by: to anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Soguns1, here's the transcript of that clip:

"When it comes to…when it comes specifically to HIV/AIDS, the most important prevention is education. Which should include …which should include abstinence only education…should include abstinence education and and teaching the children…teaching children you know that sex is not something casual. But it should also include… it should also include other, you know, information about contraception because look, I’ve got two daughters now 9 years old and 6 years old. I’m going to teach them, first of all, about values and morals. But, if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby; I don’t want them punished with an STD at the age of 16. You know, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information. You still want to teach them the morals and the values to make good decisions. "

Please tell me, exactly, in your mind, to what "mistake" Sen. Obama is referring.

Is it, as some have said, that it's having premarital sex at all - that premarital sex is a "mistake"?

Is it having unprotected sex because you don't know about contraception and safe sex, and thus getting pregnant or getting an STD?

Is it something else?

Second question: why does he use the term "punished with a baby?"

You accuse others of twisting words. We now all know what the Senator's words are. I'd like to hear from you - what's the "mistake"?

Posted by: The Sheriff | September 3, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

sex ed - AND NOT FOR NINE YEAR OLDS. For teenagers. We did not go out and try what we learned, it was good to have the information, though. Just cause you don't teach people things doesn't mean that don't act on things.

It's called EMPOWERMENT. A girl who's had sex ed can refuse to have sex with a boy who doesn't want to use birth control because she knows that it can lead to unplanned pregnancy. Not that she can't still refuse even if he's willing to use birth control, because there's nothing wrong with abstinence as long as it's not the ONLY option.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"edwards affair isn't relievant since he isn't on the ticket. It's merely idle gossip, though certainly and needlessly painful to elizabeth Edwards."

that's a hoot!!!!!!But a 17 year old is. What painful contortions you must constantly make to try to keep a straight face defending the lazy liberal media and their minions. That was rich! keep it up!!

Posted by: lmao at that one... | September 3, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

edwards affair isn't relievant since he isn't on the ticket. It's merely idle gossip, though certainly and needlessly painful to elizabeth Edwards.

Spelling Police!

How is a fact "idle gossip"?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

How is a fact "idle gossip"?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:27 PM

When the father is no longer a candidate.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Btw, abstinence only education is directed toward unmarried (namely young) people.

That's an entirely different conversation than if Palin believes in contraception.

And also - Bristol may be the biggest believer in abstinence only education after the ringing she and her family are getting about this.

Go Sarah!

Posted by: Lou | September 3, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Published in Washington post-- Gregg Eriksson is with a newspaper in Alaska. see, men think it is cool that women do this stuff. women are more cautious when it comes to birthing. My last child was delivered after 45 minutes of labor-- we delievered in the car becasue there was no time to get to the hospital. It's insanity to travel in a plane once our water has broken just because you want your child born in a particular place. Believe me I wanted very much to deliver in a hospital, but that just wasn't going to happen. So in the interest of my baby's health and me own, we stayed put.
---------------------------

Washington, D.C.: I was an apathetic McCain supporter until this. Now, I am energized. She does not have much experience but she is VP not POTUS. She seems smart, tenacious and just what McCain needs to beat the rap of "more of the same." This is definitely not "more of the same."

Gregg Erickson: You are right: smart and tenacious are good words to describe our governor. She was in Texas this spring when her water broke. Rather than staying there to have the baby, she jumped on a plan for an 11-hour flight back to Alaska, so her baby would be a "Alaskan-born."

It will be interesting to see what happens when she confronts the national media regarding her positions on Roe v. Wade, airborne wolf hunting, etc.

Posted by: to altmom | September 3, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Also to address pro-life and pro-gun.

My husband and I are pro-life and yet contemplate purchasing a gun to protect the lives within our family need be.

Get the drift? It's pretty simple.

The problem lies if you are pro-life and pro-death penalty at the same time, which we are not.

Posted by: Lou | September 3, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Guess what koolaid drinkers, the race is on. McCain raised 10 million since her selection. My republican friends are energized and we have started donating heavily now. The obama fraud is like a balloon leaking air.

Posted by: bye bye obama | September 3, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Posted by: Boring beyond belief | September 3, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Btw, abstinence only education is directed toward unmarried (namely young) people.

Then once they get pregnant, they're forced to get married in a shotgun wedding. That makes everything all better, NOT.

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Shame on you Stacey G for your outright sexist opinion. Same goes for you Moxiemom, you sound ignorant and silly. You 2 are the next Sally Quinn and Campbell Brown, and that is not a compliment.

Posted by: Siggy | September 3, 2008 1:06 PM

Well, I won't take it as a compliment then, but we will certainly do a toast to you as we lunch. 'clink' I don't like the ignorant refernce :( but I'll take the silly and run with it! Cheers.

Lou - I was actually kidding, lighten up. Where do you live, Compton? Seriously.

Posted by: Moxiemom | September 3, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

to duh!

"Then once they get pregnant, they're forced to get married in a shotgun wedding. That makes everything all better, NOT."

I'm sorry did someone confirm this? I didn't think so.

17 year olds still get married. Like it or not it happens. Think armed forces - lots of 18 year olds getting married.

Stop spewing. It doesn't flatter you.

Posted by: Lou | September 3, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Stop spewing. It doesn't flatter you.

Posted by: Lou | September 3, 2008 1:42 PM

Oooh, I'm such a girly-girl that I place my highest priority on not doing anything unflattering. You so totally got me there, NOT!

Posted by: duh! | September 3, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I read somewhere that the daughter was actually living in a different city than the parents and living with an aunt while attending high school -- where she got pregnant. If you basically have the kids, the farm them out to someone else to raise, it's the same as sending them all to boarding school. I think the part that Palin is missing is that most of us think of being a mom as about raising the kids, not just giving birth to them. Which is OK, but don't tell us to vote for you because you're a mom if actually you sent your kids away for somebody else to raise.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous @ 1:54: No, Bristol wasn't farmed out to an aunt. The family lives in Wasilla when the Alaska legislature is not in session, and Gov Palin works from home. When the legislature's in session, the Gov is required in Juneau, and the two younger girls (Willow and Piper) and now the baby go live in Juneau with her, while the older two, Track (now in the Army) and Bristol stay in Wasilla with their father. Got that? They stay with their father.

Posted by: Elmendorf | September 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"Well, I won't take it as a compliment then, but we will certainly do a toast to you as we lunch. 'clink' I don't like the ignorant refernce :( but I'll take the silly and run with it! Cheers."

Spelling Police!
Booze this early in the day = SAHM.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

When the legislature's in session, the Gov is required in Juneau, and the two younger girls (Willow and Piper) and now the baby go live in Juneau with her, while the older two, Track (now in the Army) and Bristol stay in Wasilla with their father. Got that? They stay with their father.

Posted by: Elmendorf | September 3, 2008 1:58 PM


Where did she get knocked up? In Narnia?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

"AND NO WHERE does it say that after Ms. Palin's water broke was she in labor. I believe she was not - and she spoke with her doctor."

--Umm, I thought once the water breaks, a female is on labor.
Anyhow, with regard to airlines having a rule about not allowing women in labor board their plane, I was under the assumption that Palin flew from Texas to Alaska on a private jet?

Anyways, I don't believe the kid is her's. She's covering up for one of her daughters.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Booze this early in the day = SAHM.


Well, it is past noon you know. Cheers!

Posted by: moxiemom | September 3, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse



Meet Obamas "Mainstream" Bomber - Bill Ayers


“A man is known by the company he keeps.”- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Born in 1944, Bill Ayers, along with his wife Bernardine Dohrn, was a 1960s leader of the homegrown terrorist group Weatherman, a Communist-driven splinter faction of Students for a Democratic Society. Characterizing Weatherman as "an American Red Army," Ayers summed up the organization's ideology as follows: "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents."

This is who Obama thinks is a great person to associate with. The lazy liberal media thinks its a non issue, much better to worry about a 17 year old pregnant girl.....

Posted by: Get the facts | September 3, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Anyways, I don't believe the kid is her's. She's covering up for one of her daughters.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:08 PM


Thanks, now we can put you and your posts in the nutbag category, thanks, have a nice day.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

NO your water can break, and you may or may not go into labor. Did I cover that or not? My water broke VERY EARLY for son#1, and I was in the hospital about 10 days before they induced me, and he was born more than four weeks early, but they thought it was okay (if they hadn't they would have waited longer to induce).

With number two, I was basically at my due date, they induced me, I was most definitely NOT in labor, again, and my doctor said she wasn't completely sure, but pretty sure, my water had broken.

So no, you do not automatically go into labor when your water breaks. You most times do, from what I understand, but it's not necessarily that one happens then the other. And many women go into labor, but their water hasn't broken - it gets broken by the doctor.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

TheSherrif-

"But, if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby; I don’t want them punished with an STD at the age of 16. You know, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information."

--Obama would want his daughter to be armed with information and choices if they were to fall pregnant.
To be pro-life means you "punish" the woman into carrying the child and birthing the child against the woman's will. To be pro-choice, one have the option of an abortion as well as keeping the pregnancy should one choose.

Now, it could just be me, but I read Obama's statement as his advocacy for pro-CHOICE and as well as pro sex-ed in schools.

So yeah, dummies are twisting the context.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

what is 'pro-life' anyway? I believe the term is anti choice. I think we can all agree that abortion is not a preferred choice. But some people think it should be legal, and some people think it should be lot.
I believe we are, every living being, pro-life.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

So no, you do not automatically go into labor when your water breaks. You most times do, from what I understand, but it's not necessarily that one happens then the other. And many women go into labor, but their water hasn't broken - it gets broken by the doctor.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 2:16 PM

atlmom, can you SHUTUP? did AB ask you to take over for him and post a billion non-sensical, windbag comments?

Posted by: shush | September 3, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Now, it could just be me, but I read Obama's statement as his advocacy for pro-CHOICE and as well as pro sex-ed in schools.

So yeah, dummies are twisting the context.


Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:17 PM


it is just you, once again thanks for the nutbag post, you really are on a roll......

Posted by: the dummy is in your mirror | September 3, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

"NO your water can break, and you may or may not go into labor. Did I cover that or not? My water broke VERY EARLY for son#1, and I was in the hospital about 10 days before they induced me, and he was born more than four weeks early, but they thought it was okay (if they hadn't they would have waited longer to induce)."

-I know that plenty of women's water break early and doctors try to STALL their labor. That doesn't mean the labor hasn't begun yet. Did you know that childbirth can last for days? (yeah, you did)
The water rupturing does mean the labor has started. It's in the early stage of childbirth which can last up to 3 days.


Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I've read with interest all the comments on this thread. Amazing how everyone just writes what they feel instead of checking facts first. Palin is a member of Feminists for Life. This is a group that is anti-abortion but supports the use of contraceptives.

Further, just because Palin supports abstinence only sex education in Alaska doesn't mean that is the actual policy in place in the state. The state has sex education that includes instruction on the use of contraceptives. So maybe the debate should be why this public school education didn't work.

Finally, why is any woman questioning, especially women who've had children, questioning another woman's choice of means of delivery? If she consulted her doctor, why do you care? The baby is here and apparantly loved and well cared for. What else can anyone ask?

Posted by: smgoodman | September 3, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"I think we can all agree that abortion is not a preferred choice."
--LOL. Says who?

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: atlmom |

"NO your water can break, and you may or may not go into labor. Did I cover that or not?"

Seeing as this is a blog on parenting, I'll jump in agin .

I agree - water breaking does not mean the start of labor - been there, done that. HOWEVER!!! As I said before - once the waters break, you are pretty much wide open for infection. *That* is the insanity of her decision to run back to Alaska. I guess her other pregnancies had a long labor, so she thought she had enough time. Bull pucky - she endangered her child and herself. With that an example of her decision making skills under duress, I want her to *stay* in
Alaska and away from the vice presidency.

Posted by: What a Maroon! | September 3, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"And many women go into labor, but their water hasn't broken - it gets broken by the doctor."
--This is the only part of your statement that is true. A woman can go into labor without her water YET broken. Cervix dialating, mucus completely thinned out, contractions close together, etc..

But once the water breaks, a woman is in labor. A doctor can only try to slow down or stall the progress that comes afterwards.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

soguns: you are wrong, and apparently did not read what I said. The DOCTORS said I wasn't in labor, and they would not have stopped my labor, but I wasn't in labor (since I was past 33/34 weeks). As stated, I was in the hospital for *10 days* after my water broke, with NO signs of my going into labor. Much longer than the three days you seem to say it should take.
If they were trying to stall my supposed labor, why would they INDUCE me when it was time for me to have the baby (well, not really time, but seriously, how long did I need to stay in the hospital playing cards? the baby was small, but healthy).

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Lordy-

The child is her grandson. Not her son.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

The baby is here and apparantly loved and well cared for. What else can anyone ask?

Posted by: smgoodman | September 3, 2008 2:27 PM

Spelling Police!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"I think we can all agree that abortion is not a preferred choice."
--LOL. Says who?

Unfortunately for us, your mom did not take your advice.......

Posted by: To Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Atlmom-

Slow labor rings a bell? I've read and already stated, that woman can be in labor for DAYS.
Actually, and some the longer labor is actually pretty incredible.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

And since the moment that John McCain made her his pick for the Republican vice presidential nomination, we the people have been judging her most on one job: that of Mom.
-------------

???

Troopergate was because she's a mother? The secessionist Alaska Independent Party was because she's a mother?

get real, the scenario you describe never happened.

Posted by: DCer | September 3, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

What would Jesus say?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DCer | September 3, 2008 2:43 PM

Oh the great dullard has arrived with his opinion. marvelous.

Posted by: let the boredom begin | September 3, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Yo! You MM's on OP, carm down!

Posted by: Sasquatch | September 3, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Moxiemom - Your statement is really lame. So you are telling me that everyone in NO at the time Katrina hit lives in a place comparable to Compton? News flash: we live in the shadows on the nations capital which will most likely be attacked again. I wouldn't mind having a gun for those circumstances.

In the near future, have you heard of all the attacks on the WOD trail? Well we bike there and sometimes there are shady people on relatively desolate stretches.

Posted by: Lou | September 3, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Oh. And I don't see the irony in being pro-life and pro-guns rights.

There is, however, an irony in being pro-life and pro-death penalty.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Where the eff is Compton?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Sasquatch,
Haven't you learned your lesson yet? Something tells me you actually WANT us to come visit the lizards.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Again, the doctors (I believe five of them saw me) told me I was not in labor. They were not doing anything to stop labor. I was not in labor. They gave me something to induce labor, that DID NOT WORK, and THEN they gave me pitocin. About 10 days AFTER my water broke. But, well, YOU must know better.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Compton is the hood near LA.

And moxiemom - You were kidding about Pro life and pro gun? Who would've known?

You asked a question, don't attack the person for giving it an honest answer.

Posted by: Lou | September 3, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Yep, Soguns1 is a complete and total genius. Let's all applaud this person's math.

"Anyways, I don't believe the kid is her's. She's covering up for one of her daughters.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:08 PM"

"Lordy-

The child is her grandson. Not her son.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:36 PM "

Let's see. Trig Palin was born April 18, 2008. That's four months and 2 weeks ago.

Gov Palin has three daughters: Bristol, 17; Willow, 13; and Piper, 7.

Bristol is currently 5 months pregnant. So that means that if Trig is her son, she became pregnant with the current child while pregnant with Trig, and giving birth to Trig caused no complications with the current pregnancy. You believe that, Soguns1?

Okay, maybe the mother is Willow. Willow is 13; if Trig were her child she would have become pregnant at the age of 11 (almost 12). Biologically possible, but unlikely; and it would have been front-page news in Alaska, for sure. There are pictures of Willow available that were taken during the time of Trig's gestation; she does not appear to be pregnant. Soguns1, do you believe that Trig is Willow's child?

The other choice, then, is Piper, who would have become pregnant at the age of 6 if she were to be the mother. Soguns1, you probably believe that Piper is indeed the mother of Trig, don't you?

Yes, indeed, Soguns1 is a genius whose math skills prove that he/she is the guiding light that shines on the future of America.

Well, that or that he/she is an idiot; your choice.

Posted by: Soguns1 = genius | September 3, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

There is, however, an irony in being pro-life and pro-death penalty...

Uh, it has to do with protecting children and holding adults accountable for their actions!

Next time we have a convicted murder/rapist, we will just put him in your care and custody rather than the state. You can house, educate and reform him.

Posted by: Pro Life and Pro Death Penalty | September 3, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

You mention that you were playing cards at the hospital while awaiting the labor. sounds like you would have rather been somewhere else-- perhaps at home, perhaps shopping, walking in a park, etc. did you ask for release from the hospital? Or did you think it would be in the best interests for your health and the health of your unborn to stay put?

Posted by: to altmom | September 3, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Who will play Palin in the Lifetime movie?

Robert Downey Jr.

Posted by: Producer | September 3, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

the irony is being pro killing babies and sparing murderers the death penalty. That is the world ninnies like soguns1 live in. Except that is a very sad irony.

Posted by: that is ironic.. | September 3, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Sasquatch,
Haven't you learned your lesson yet? Something tells me you actually WANT us to come visit the lizards.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 2:53 PM


BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Yes, indeed, Soguns1 is a genius whose math skills prove that he/she is the guiding light that shines on the future of America.

Well, that or that he/she is an idiot; your choice.

Posted by: Soguns1 = genius | September 3, 2008 3:01 PM

Thank you, ArmyBrat.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Actually sg1=genius, the rumor is that Bristol's parents pulled her out of school five months ago b/c she had mono. That would coincide with those who think she was actually pulled out of school b/c she was pregnant and about to deliver.

Also, the current pregnancy is supposed to be a fake, and she will have a fake miscarriage later.

I'm not commenting on the truth or falsehood of that. I don't know and don't care. Just trying to 'splain.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Next time we have a convicted murder/rapist, we will just put him in your care and custody rather than the state. You can house, educate and reform him.

Posted by: Pro Life and Pro Death Penalty | September 3, 2008 3:01 PM

What does Jesus say?

Posted by: You must forgive | September 3, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

[Sarah] Palin reportedly asked the library, for example, about the process for banning books. One local resident said Palin found some texts "morally or socially objectionable." The librarian, who resisted mayoral censorship, was fired shortly after Palin took office, though Palin reversed course after a local outcry, and later said the discussions about banning books were "rhetorical."

...Palin's mayoral tenure wasn't limited to fights over banning books at a public library. She also racked up nearly $20 million in long-term debt for the small town, which amounts to about $3,000 per resident. And now she's ready to bring that leadership to the nation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/03/politics/animal/main4411217.shtml

Posted by: other Sarah Palin shortcomings | September 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Brangelina will adopt the love-child!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this right-- her water broke in Texas, then she decided to take a plane back to Alaska? Does anyone dispute this?

Posted by: chris | September 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"Actually sg1=genius, the rumor is that Bristol's parents pulled her out of school five months ago b/c she had mono. That would coincide with those who think she was actually pulled out of school b/c she was pregnant and about to deliver.

Also, the current pregnancy is supposed to be a fake, and she will have a fake miscarriage later."

You're stretching it. You're really stretching it. Why go to the trouble of telling the world that she's pregnant, and dragging a teenaged hockey player to Minnesota to parade in front of the world? Why not just stay with "the baby is Sarah's" and not bother with any fake pregnancy?

It makes no sense.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this right-- her water broke in Texas, then she decided to take a plane back to Alaska? Does anyone dispute this?

Posted by: chris | September 3, 2008 3:18 PM


Can anyone prove it is a fact?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

From today's Washington Post:
Bristol Palin attended high school in Wasilla, where her mother grew up. But it was widely reported by town residents that while the Palins continued to live on Lucille Lake in Wasilla, she had moved to the home of an aunt in Anchorage and was attending high school there.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this right-- her water broke in Texas, then she decided to take a plane back to Alaska? Does anyone dispute this?

Posted by: chris | September 3, 2008 3:18 PM

Madonna does.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous, I'm not stretching anything. I didn't make that rumor up or even profess belief in it. I'm just repeating it.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous, I'm not stretching anything. I didn't make that rumor up or even profess belief in it. I'm just repeating it.

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 3:21 PM

Classic MM!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Wow! | September 3, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse


Let me get this right-- her water broke in Texas, then she decided to take a plane back to Alaska? Does anyone dispute this?

Posted by: chris | September 3, 2008 3:18 PM


Can anyone prove it is a fact?
_________________________

The news media's been known to lie, but the Anchorage NBC affiliate says:

http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8194634

by Lori Tipton
Friday, April 18, 2008

ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Gov. Sarah Palin gave birth to her fifth child at about 6:30 a.m. Friday morning.

Trig Paxson Van Palin was born at Mat-Su Regional Hospital about one month before he was scheduled to arrive.

Trig Palin weighs six pounds, two ounces.

A press release from the governor's office says Palin and her new son are both "doing well and resting comfortably."

The Palins released the following statement:

"Trig is beautiful and already adored by us. We knew through early testing he would face special challenges, and we feel privileged that God would entrust us with this gift and allow us unspeakable joy as he entered our lives. We have faith that every baby is created for good purpose and has potential to make this world a better place. We are truly blessed."

Just yesterday, Palin was in Texas at a forum on energy with Texas Gov. Rick Perry and executives from four other states.

Palin was asked at the forum whether or not she would accept an offer by Republican presidential candidate John McCain to share the national ticket as vice presidential nominee.

She said she would accept, according to reports from a Texas newspaper.

The governor's water broke during the energy conference but she stayed and gave a 30-minute speech before boarding an Alaska Airlines plane home to deliver the baby.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"Lordy-

The child is her grandson. Not her son.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 3, 2008 2:36 PM "

Let's see. Trig Palin was born April 18, 2008. That's four months and 2 weeks ago.

Gov Palin has three daughters: Bristol, 17; Willow, 13; and Piper, 7.

Bristol is currently 5 months pregnant. So that means that if Trig is her son, she became pregnant with the current child while pregnant with Trig, and giving birth to Trig caused no complications with the current pregnancy. You believe that, Soguns1?"

"Why go to the trouble of telling the world that she's pregnant, and dragging a teenaged hockey player to Minnesota to parade in front of the world? Why not just stay with "the baby is Sarah's" and not bother with any fake pregnancy?

It makes no sense.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:18 PM"

Ah, it is you who are gullible. You are accepting as fact the announcement that Bristol is pregnant. If I told you the globe was flat, would you buy that, too?

Palin was initially trying to cover up for her daughter, "you have him, we'll raise him, you'll go on to college and no one needs to ever know about it, honey", an admirable impulse and private family act. The problem came when she made the announcement Friday -- under pressure -- to cover up for the lie that Trig is hers. Her behavior, announcing to her staff in her purported 7th month that she was pregnant, the bogus water breaking story, flying back to Alaska, being back at work on Day 3, makes sense if she wasn't pregnant and didn't deliver the baby. Poor Bristol. She's not 5 months pregnant. She's a new mom.

Oh, what a tangled web Palin wove.

Posted by: to Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Wow! If my water broke when I was at work, people would go CRAZY! I recall guys looking nervous just getting into an elevator with me when I was close to due date.

Posted by: chris | September 3, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

When you are a public figure, you are no longer a private citizen. It is totally appropriate to discuss ANY public figure's life situation, family or otherwise. Makes no difference if you're a man or a woman. We know far too much about Bill Clinton's sex life, as well as John Edwards'. If you want to be a public figure, which Palin does, you have to accept that nothing in your life is private. If you can't handle that, public service is not for you.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: to Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:41 PM

You are truly an idiot. Obama must love you

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

thanks for the link-- according to that, she wasn't on a private flight-- Alaska Airlines! How would you like to be the person on that flight? So it is Ok to be in labor while on a flight? and I assume this is a several hour flight, right?

Posted by: to anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

The entire Palin family should move out of the Alaska governor's mansion and live in a doublewide. And most of you people should join them there. Trailer trash belongs in a trailer.

Posted by: Captain Dan | September 3, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

How long before John McCain dumps Cindy to truly make Plain his running mate?

Posted by: Captain Dan | September 3, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Captain Dan | September 3, 2008 3:56 PM

gee "captain dan" thanks. There is something inherently creepy about people who are "captain this or captain that".

Posted by: umm, no thanks, "Cappie" | September 3, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Captain dan always keeps a fresh supply of rufies for his female "friends" drinks......

Posted by: get lost creepster | September 3, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

he wasn't on a private flight-- Alaska Airline

Maybe it was a charter rather than a schedule flight?

Maybe she knows how her own body reacts to childbirth as this was her fifth child?

Maybe she checked with her dr.?

As other women have pointed out here, breaking water does not indicate that childbirth is imminent.


And no, it is not appropriate to discuss the progeny of candidates if the candidate request otherwise.

Chelsea Clinton comes to mind as a child who was protected from the press as she grew up in the White House.


Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Do I need to explain the irony about guns and pro-life? Seriously. Guns are generally used to kill things like people and animals so see it's hard to see how one could be pro-gun and pro-life. That's the funny in it. I suppose if you only hunt with your gun then maybe you are pro-people, certainly not pro-life of the animals but really its all silly isn't it.

Posted by: Moxiemom | September 3, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"Chelsea Clinton comes to mind as a child who was protected from the press as she grew up in the White House. "

But her parents were democrats remember?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I will make sure that only Pro-Life (as you define them) police officers patrol your city.

Posted by: to Moxiemom | September 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

I hate to say this, but I think that rumor might have some legs to it. Not that it matters to me. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Moxie, You really take that "setting the bar low" thing seriously, don't you? Your not witty anymore, too bad, you used to be funny.

Posted by: anon | September 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Everything I read indicates she *did* speak with her doctor before boarding a flight to Alaska. I personally would not have done it, but nonetheless, that's her decision.
Although I was under the impression one was not allowed to fly (or airlines did not like people to fly) when one was over 30 weeks of gestation...is that really true or what doctors tell us?

And, most of the time, water breaking is NOT like in the movies - it is a slow leak and no one would have any idea at all that it happened. I didn't even know cause I had no idea, and I had so long til my due date, it never occurred to me, AND it didn't happen like in the movies...just a slow leak...

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

"Guns are generally used to kill things like people and animals so see it's hard to see how one could be pro-gun and pro-life. That's the funny in it"

You remind me of that woman in NOTTINGHILL who thought eating a vegetable or fruit was "murder"........

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I hate to say this, but I think that rumor might have some legs to it. Not that it matters to me. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 4:10 PM

If you will fall for OBAMA, you will fall for anything..........

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

moxiemom, pro-gun and pro-life:

people are different from deer, squirrels, turkeys, etc.

I eat turkey at Thanksgiving. I don't eat human.

I eat squirrel stew; I don't eat people-burgers.

I put venison in my gumbo; I have never put human parts in my gumbo.

See how easy it is to be pro-gun AND pro-life?

Also, let's not forget sport shooting. There were nine different shooting events in the recent Summer Olympics. That's right, nine people got Gold Medals for their skilled use of guns. None of them shot any people while winning their medals.

Guns have many, many uses other than injuring/killing people.

So it's easy to be pro-gun and pro-(human)-life.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

When you are a public figure, you are no longer a private citizen. It is totally appropriate to discuss ANY public figure's life situation, family or otherwise. Makes no difference if you're a man or a woman. We know far too much about Bill Clinton's sex life, as well as John Edwards'. If you want to be a public figure, which Palin does, you have to accept that nothing in your life is private. If you can't handle that, public service is not for you.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 3:51 PM

And *this* is why we have the crop of politicians we have to choose from. Cause people like this think nothing is off limits - so why would anyone want to run when they can do many other things and not be so scrutinized.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Atlmom and anonymous. You are both right. Nothing is off limits anymore if you are a public figure. And I am sure many good people are put off by this and don't enter politics for that reason. But it is what it is.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Some one please say something. Do you want Emily to have the last word?

Posted by: Help! | September 3, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I'm just pointing out that with that attitude, we get the leaders we deserve. No one ever knew that FDR was in a wheelchair. What a difference a generation or two makes.

Posted by: atlmom | September 3, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Some one please say something. Do you want Emily to have the last word?

Posted by: Help! | September 3, 2008 4:42 PM


Who cares? No one really pays attention to these windbag posts. I think AB decided to post under different names today.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

The best analogy I can think of, well, when I was in college I started dying my hair. I always thought it was fun; as fun as tie-dying a T-Shirt. Different cuts, different colors. Then one day I realized I really couldn't remember what my real color was. For about 5 years I tried to dye my hair back to its original color, but I never got it quite right: when it grew, the roots would show and I knew I still didn't have it back to the color God gave me. Finally I just let it grow and grow, and that's when I discovered what color it was.


Posted by: NW DC | September 3, 2008 4:43 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Captain Dan | September 3, 2008 3:56 PM

gee "captain dan" thanks. There is something inherently creepy about people who are "captain this or captain that".

Posted by: umm, no thanks, "Cappie" | September 3, 2008 4:00 PM

Gasp! So you think Captain Crunch is a creepazoid?!

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I asked " . . did you ask for release from the hospital? Or did you think it would be in the best interests for your health and the health of your unborn to stay put?"

did you miss it-- or is the point made?


Posted by: to altmom | September 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

My closing comment:

Look at Hax-philes today, Carolyn Hax's opening comment specifically. Ding, ding, ding! Bingo!

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Are you some kind of bingo game or slot machine? Do you eyes light up also?

Posted by: to theoriginalmomof2 | September 3, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Not to worry, "No thanks," the Captain is not after you. The Captain is content to wait until Bristol Palin gets her divorce at age 19 before visiting her trailer.

Posted by: Captain Dan | September 3, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Not to worry, "No thanks," the Captain is not after you. The Captain is content to wait until Bristol Palin gets her divorce at age 19 before visiting her trailer.

Posted by: Captain Dan | September 3, 2008 5:06 PM

Captain Dan = Jeff Stryker?
I'm sure Bristol hopes so!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Brian Reid is a sensitive, New Age Guy, aka, a Cosmo Girl. Sure, Brian, a family with 5 kids -- one of whom is pregnant, another of whom is an infant with congenital mental retardation -- can have it all....in your dreams.

IF this family ever had anything approaching "Family Values," BOTH parents would have gotten off the fast track several years ago. Somebody needs to be a caregiver to the kids. Right now it looks to be the Nanny. If Sarah Palin is the career person, Tim Palin needs to be home with the kids. If Tim Palin is the career person, then Sarah Palin needs to be home with the kids.

Contrary to whatever the controlled substances are telling you, Brian, it is IMPOSSIBLE for both parents to have full-time careers and be good parents, especially when one of the careers is that of state governor or US Vice-President. particularly when one of the kids has such a serious disability.

By the way, if the McCain-Palin ticket wins in November, will Bristol, husband and child move into the White House? If so, would that not be the first shotgun couple in history to occupy the White House?

Unfortunately, Trig Palin would not be the first person of diminshed mental facilities to live in the White House. The current occupant is a prize-winning example of that.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 3, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"Moxie, You really take that "setting the bar low" thing seriously, don't you? Your not witty anymore, too bad, you used to be funny.

Posted by: anon | September 3, 2008 4:11 PM "

Rats Anon - and I was going to ask you to be the VP of my fan club. You don't have a pregnant teen daughter do you?

As for the other gun folks, I'm guessing the the NRA convention is a pretty laugh free event. YIKES - you sure are a serious bunch - please don't shoot me.

Posted by: Moxiemom | September 3, 2008 6:51 PM | Report abuse

As for the other gun folks, I'm guessing the the NRA convention is a pretty laugh free event. YIKES - you sure are a serious bunch - please don't shoot me.

Just don't stand in the line of fire on the range...if you understand what that means.

Posted by: NRA Supporter | September 3, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Mrs. Palin should be evaluated on her abilities. Period. This talk of her being a good or bad mother is ridiculous, sexist, degrading and distracting. She's running for VP of the United States, not Mother of the year (which she may very well be qualified for). Lay off the gender-related criticisms and evaluate her fairly. Give her a fair chance, just like you should a democrat - black, white, mixed, Muslim, Christian, Jew or other. Male OR Female!

Posted by: MKeegan | September 3, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

fr newSAHM:

>...When James Dobson thinks she's A-ok, the rest of America should be having second (and third and fourth) thoughts....

Anyone who thinks jimmy dobDUMB is right NEEDS to think long and hard about jimmy and his little gang of four.

Posted by: Alex | September 4, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

"Palin has "her kids around her while she works" and "a deep bench of family and friends for child-care support"
=====================
Please tell me where all that support was while her daughter, who's sex education was abstinence only!

Sex education that consist of abstinence only is foolish and dangerous!

Posted by: Natasha | September 4, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Judge Gov. Palin by her political record and views, NOT on her family situation. A man in this situation would never be judged because he has a baby with Downs syndrome.

===============
I would judge a man in the same way that I judge Palin.
It is not just about the baby with Downs Syndrome, but her whole family, her views on the issues that are important to me and the way she has operated as Gov of Alaska and Mayor of that Podunk town. It doesn't look good to me and trust me more information will be coming soon.

I would judge a man

Posted by: Matilta | September 4, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

"Actually sg1=genius, the rumor is that Bristol's parents pulled her out of school five months ago b/c she had mono. That would coincide with those who think she was actually pulled out of school b/c she was pregnant and about to deliver."

--Another genius, along with me, at his/her best!
To the imbecile posters critizing me telling me that the months of Bristol's pregnancy and the Down Syndrom child's birthday doesn't add up--NO SH*T, wiseguy!

What doesn't make sense is the govenor's choice to fly out to Alaska after her water breaks, all the myspace pictures on Bristol's boyfriend sister myspace page, and the governor's choice to pull her daughter out of school because of mono. HA! Sounds like a crock out sh*t to me. Not to mention, one can't seem to find any picture of Sarah Palin in her late stage of pregnancy with her 5th child.

Looks like a fish, smells like a fish-it is a fish.

Posted by: Soguns1 | September 4, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Moxie, Your really have lost your edge. I hope your daughter doesn't come home one day and tell you something you don't want to hear. Wisdom comes with age, perhaps you'll understand why your sexist comments are so offensive in the years to come, but for now I have completely lost my affection for you.

Posted by: Anon | September 4, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

We aren't supposed to judge her on her family, yet she uses her family as polical props more than anyone that I have ever seen. She is constantly pointing out her son in the military at political events and the fact that she carried a down syndrome baby to term is constantly brought up. Even the pregnant teen is seen in a photo op at the airport with the father too be getting his hand shook by senator McCain.

I think that people over 45 automatically think there is a sexist line of questioning, but a slightly younger generation judges the participation of fathers the same way. I know that I would catch a lot of flack from friends and family if I were the father of a special needs baby and a pregnant 17 year old and decided to take a job that was 100% travel or left me know time with my family (assuming that I had a good job alternative that didn't come with these constraints). I think a man in a similar situation would definitely be called out on this issue.

The sad thing is that we have all taken the bait. This is the politics of personality. Can't win on the issues so make it about personality instead of the issues. Her speech the other night was something you would expect from a high schooler "vote for me I am cool. those other guys aren't cool." No substance.

I add to this that I love John McCain and voted for him in the primary. (though I miss the John McCain that ran in 2000, he has sold out to win). I am not sure that I will vote at all now that Palin is on the ticket. This move was politics First, country last. What investigation I have done of her record shows: popularity, poor performance and lots of taking credit for other peoples work and good timing.

Posted by: jjs | September 5, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

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